E57: Pumpkin Spiced / Vader Machine / OBEDIENCE

[MUSIC] >> On the Harrison, we're back. >> We are back. >> The purity of clearly speaking. >> And it's going to be pure for a while, right? >> I bet it will be. >> No guess, no guess for at least a couple months. >> That being said, it did feel more natural because at least you and I were both on the last podcast with CNA guys. >> That's true. >> So it didn't feel as different. >> And we had to, and we have to put camellars in their place, yeah. >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> I got to sort of put me in my place when we talked about the sacrament of marriage. >> It was a humbling learning experience for me. And you apparently haven't put your hair in your place. >> No, I have it, my hair is very poopy today. So I'm growing up my hair again, just for funzees. But I was able to take a nap today, praise be God, and when I take a nap, I'll take one of those, when those little winter caps, you have a name for them, what do you call them? >> Chukes. >> Tukes, I take a tuk, and I put it over my eyes as kind of to block out the lights. So right after my nap, I had to go to Westminster College, which is a real college. And we have- >> Where's the proof? >> You have a copy of its foundational documents. >> I don't, we have an Instagram account, is that help? >> No, Instagram's lame, we all know this. >> For the sake of argument, let's just say I went to the college on Friday afternoons, actually evenings, we have adoration from 7 to 8 in the interfaith prayer room. And so it's kind of neat, because what you do as a priest is you bring Jesus to people, right? And you do that at Mass, but there's something kind of neat about literally driving Jesus so he can see the people. So I had Jesus in my right pocket, I had my monstrous in my car, we drive there, we set up at adoration, and it's a very simple thing, just a quiet adoration of our Lord for an hour, and students showed up, and it's lovely. It's also like a way for me to cheat and get in my Holy Hour on Fridays, because it's like scheduled scheduled, so that's always nice. >> Yeah, there's two things, actually yesterday I went to go visit the parishioner at their home, so I was bringing them to you, and it's just always, when you have the Eucharist right next to your heart like that in your shirt pocket, I just turned off the music, I'm like, all right, Jesus, we're going to be extra close for the next 10 minutes until I get there, it's awesome. >> Yeah, it's nice. >> It's nice, but yeah, I do the same thing, we're trying to increase adoration here, and we have public adoration, and so far as I can be there. I try to do at least one Holy Hour when the Eucharist is exposed. For a few reasons, it's just nice when it's actually adoration, and I think it's important for parishioners to also see their priest pray. >> Yeah, it's true. >> Right. >> So it's actually kind of nice, like this one I was like, I woke up, I kind of meandered around the rectory, and I was like, I'm going to do my Holy Hour later, so I'll go outside and read and have a conference, that's great. >> Yeah, it is nice, and it's important for people to see their priest pray, but I struggle to do that a little bit, because if I do that, if I pray, do my private prayer publicly, I'm always kind of aware of people looking at me, and even though it's efficacious for them, it's a little bit difficult for me sometimes, does that make sense? >> Yeah, and that's why I don't do it every day, but it's like, for me, it's like, I'd say two or three days a week, and sometimes people come into the church early or whatever, and I'm already there, that's fine, but I just think it's important for people to see their priest pray sometimes. >> Right, absolutely. >> Right, cool. >> So then you're in Washington with those guys, what do you guys do? >> Oh, right, right, so yeah, this is one of the more spontaneous things, I mean, we planned it a little bit a week ahead, we should have done more planning, but so yeah, basically, if you guys haven't catch it, check out our last episode of "Clarically Speaking," and also check out CNA's "Editors Desk," because we did a kind of a combination podcast with them. They were on our podcasts, we were on theirs, and the reason why we did this is when we really like the guys, and we like their perspective, and CNA Newsroom is also a good way to get your news via audio. And so we've been talking a lot about, let's do this sort of thing, so- >> And we're all good friends now. >> Yeah, we are, we are, right? >> We have a Twitter DM together, which is, that's what friendship is to me now. >> Yeah. >> If you're in a DM with somebody, that means their friends in real life. >> But can we, should we share the name of the DM? So a quick obligation before you do, whenever I'm in a DM, I always give it this ostentatious, like really important sounding name to make myself feel better. So with that being said, you want to tell people what we call a DM? >> Podcasting cool kids. >> Yeah, right? >> Because we are the best. >> Obviously. >> Obviously. Anyways. >> Yeah. >> You're hanging out with them. >> Yeah. >> I couldn't leave my parents, and I had stuff to do unfortunately, so I couldn't, you know. I couldn't fly out to the East Coast just for, to our podcasting date. >> Yeah. So for me, it was only a four and a half hour drive, and it just worked out schedule wise where I could leave in the afternoon and be back in the morning, and it worked out great. And the thing was that JD Flynn, who's out in Denver, question mark. >> Yeah, Denver. >> Yeah. He was in DC. So it would be easier for at least three of us to be in the same room. And I want to meet JD. I'd already met Ed. So it was good. It was good. >> Yeah. >> So because we start recording at, oh, maybe like eight, eight thirty, Eastern time. And then we, I mean, the whole process took about three hours. >> Yeah. >> Because we had to figure out a way to get into the room so you guys could all hear me at once. >> Yes. >> And yet it not be caught on the audio. >> And the great, the great solution was putting our cell phones by their microphones, and that's the audio they use. >> Is it really? >> It is. >> You sound fun. It's not, it's okay. >> It sounded a little echoey. I was like, when I heard them, I was like, they use the, they use the originating. They use the sound through the phone. >> Yeah. So, I mean, they do a great job, but not everyone has the same sort of dedication and skill that producer Nick does, you know. And that's fine. Different gifts, same spirit. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. So it was a good time. >> Nice. >> Hang out with those guys. And then we're back at it. >> Yeah. >> How's your week been going? >> You don't want to introduce a podcast, I guess. >> I do want to introduce the podcast. >> I forgot that that's the thing that we do. >> That is the thing we do. The person who takes the lead when they're done their banter. >> Yes. >> Introducing the podcast. >> You are absolutely right. My good friend Paul Harrison. >> Welcome to "Clarically Speaking." I'm Father Anthony. >> I'm Father Harrison. There we go. Now we got a nice transition into my banter, right? >> Right. But before we do that, please consider donating to our Patreon. Money goes to paying for our equipment and podcast hosting fees, as well as paying producer Nick a just wage for all he does. Any money collected that goes beyond that will be donated to the missionaries of charity. If you donate, you get access to the very exclusive producer Nick podcast. >> Very salty producer Nick podcast. >> Where he reviews and ridicules the previous week's podcast. And it is something to listen to. Nick pulls no punches. >> I'm nervous about this week's. >> It's not nearly his last week's where he just destroyed me. He's just fine. He's allowed to do that because I'm his older brother and when I visit him on my day off I'm going to beat him up. So yeah, evens out. >> There we go. >> Cool. So I mentioned this on Twitter last night as a little thread. But my life changed one and a half weeks ago. >> Because one and a half weeks ago you were where? >> I was here in Port Albany. >> Oh. >> What changed? >> I got a CPAP machine. >> All right. >> Do you have a Darth Vader sleepy mask? >> It's more like a Darth Vader nosy mask. >> Okay, okay. >> It just goes over the nose. >> Okay. >> That's nice. Let's stick up there. >> No, no, no, it fits perfectly over my nose actually. It's almost not noticeable actually it's quite well done. Although I remember one morning I woke up. There's like this big long tube that pushes the air through into the mask from the sheen. So it's nice and long so you don't like yank it overnight or whatever. >> Right. >> I woke up one morning cuddling the cord. >> You just curled up with your seatbelt. >> Yeah, I was like-- >> I think I was like, nice and cozy. >> So a couple months ago, like I remember I think actually I'm mentioned on Twitter today that they were already mentioning how I had talked about how I never feel rested. So I saw my doctor, so he went to the sleep test and yeah, I got diagnosed with apnea, which is so my range was I had about 20 non-breath episodes per hour. Yikes, so for 20 times in an hour you were not breathing. >> And then through the CPAP we've learned that my-- so there's two types of apnea. There is construction where like your tongue or there's a flap of skin in the back of your throat that reduces the ability of air to get through your airwaves, gross, or-- >> And this is the one I have, your brain doesn't tell your lungs to breathe. >> Oh, interesting. >> Yes, that's the one I have. That's what we've learned now since I've been on the machine. >> See, the problem is your brain is too busy contemplating the glories of a theology of Joseph Cartel and Ratsinger/Popein at the 16th. >> Exactly. >> It has no time for worldly things like breathing at night. >> It exactly, I mean like do the angels breathe? >> No. >> [LAUGH] >> Anyways, so I got on it and I would say within the first two days I was like a new man. >> That's wonderful. >> I'm still getting used to it. >> I've not gotten on the full night's sleep yet since I've been on it. I wake up every night like 3.30 after I finish or I'm cycle because my face is getting air blown into it, so-- >> Sure. >> You know, your body's getting used to this, but I've gone down from 19 non-breath episodes per hour to four. >> All right. >> Much better. >> And they want to get it down to one. My respiratory therapist was saying yesterday. You're going to feel even better in a few weeks amazing. It's going to be even better. I'm like this houses because I got this shit. This is why I'm so happy. I feel like I'm 18 again. Amazing. I'm more faithful. Yes. Yes, exactly. And hopefully, Holier. Like yesterday, I sat in my office for four hours doing admin work. And that's the worst. And I used to not be able to. I couldn't focus. I couldn't keep my mind. I couldn't focus. I couldn't keep my attention on things. I was always fatigued. I had no energy to do anything at all. And as I was getting more tired, I wanted to hang out with people less and less and less. And I was just retreating inside myself, which is weird because I'm an extrovert by nature. So I felt like this. My prayer life was all over the place because I think I couldn't get my, like, it would take me an hour to get a bed somewhere. Like when, when, when Holier read a script, it talks about the holy minute, I'm like, you are crazy, man. This is literally an impossibility for me. And I just thought this is all normal. Right. And now I'm like, that wasn't, I just, I have attention. I have focus. I'm able to do things. I have energy to do things. And everyone's like, you look a lot happier. I'm like, because I am. I think it's, it is literally, I don't know, I don't know what to say, but I'm like a new man and it couldn't have come in a better time because, you know, new year, new kind of church year, new activity, and a new responsibility start and a start and a doctoral studies during the start. And I'm just like, I'm in a good place to do all this stuff now. That's really cool. See, I'm tempted to go see a sleep therapist like that. I'm afraid they would tell me, well, first of all, you have to stop drinking so much caffeine. And first of all, you have to try to get into regular sleep schedule. And I want to do either of those things. They don't, they don't tell me any of that. They, what they did for me is now it's just a take home test. So they measure, it measures your blood pressure and your pulse. And that through those readings, they're able to determine your breathing episodes. So that's what they did. I took it home for two days. I brought it back to me. He's like, yeah, you've got, you've got half an year. And so they don't tell you it's like, we're here to do the other thing. I'm drinking less caffeine now because I don't need to. Right. That makes sense. I had one coffee today and I'm fine. That's awesome. So like, I mean, I mean, like, I'm out of bed within the first five minutes. I'm in prayer in the church by seven a.m. using some up at six. And I'm going to bed at a more normal hour. I'm just, I don't know. It's magical. It is magical. And I don't know why you know, has increased over these, these years or whatever, but it has. And, but I'm just very grateful to God that this is coming to my life. And I'm just so thankful. You know, who else didn't drink coffee because I hadn't been brought to Europe yet. Thomas Aquinas. It's time for the suma. The logic. So here's the thing. What's the thing? I thought you're going to go more with the because he was overweight. He probably also had that was the easy joke. I'm not going to do that to bother Harrison. I'm not. It's because it's so you're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. It's called discernment and prudence and charity. And I have that occasionally occasionally. So the suma theology with St. Thomas Aquinas is summary of theology and the suma to wedi logica is our summary of things we found interesting on Twitter. First up. Oh, there are. So this is a tweet from Aaron Stuweck. Good friend of mine. And tweet says Peter is casually scooting around with this. Have we been listening to too much clerical pod and the picture is of a cute little baby. Scooting around with a book by Joseph Ratzinger. What it means to be a Christian and he looks so happy that he's with his book. It is adorable. It is a future Ratzinger scholar right there. It is never too early to start reading Ratzinger to your children. It's never too early to have your children listen to clarity speaking. That is also true. Start them young. Yeah. Yeah. I that face and that picture is how I look every time I open around. In fact, at the mere mention of the name, my smile grows to that level. You this youthful countenance of joy as your mind is enlightened by theological subliminalities. It's it's wonderful. Reading Ratzinger makes you like a child. It's great. So the answer is no. You haven't been listening to too much clerical pod. You're doing a great job. In fact, you should double down and listen to more. Give us those sweet, sweet clicks. clerical pod makes happy babies say exactly. This is from an IT geek CT. I was dizzy from no food on the way to mass. Really dizzy. A to half a bag of fruits next 30 minutes before mass felt that are told priest after he said this is no problem. None. Go and peace. God bless our priests. So here. This is where she's coming from with this is the norm is that you are to risk you are too fast one hour from food. And I would say most drinks. One hour prior to receiving community. It used to be longer. That's the norm now. And the idea is that you're meant to prepare your body to receive this great gift that Jesus offers us. And the reason the priest said is no problem. It's something that she was getting dizzy. Like she couldn't function. She needed to do something to get a blood sugar up whatever knows but she ate something to kind of get things normal. That's okay. The church only requires fasting. Like when you're kind of normal. Like even like the fasting rules for Ash Wednesday and good Friday don't hold in all cases like it says like if you're pregnant mother and you're nursing or whatever you don't you're not bound by the fasting rules. It's like this as the same thing here she was sick in that moment. And so you're not bound by the fast rules. So I thought what a beautiful little because I think sometimes when we're Catholics we can do a guilt like oh my gosh, I do this. I went to community and it's like should I have done this in the priest. I'm not you're good. You're good. Yeah. If you can do something that will help you not pass out at mass. That's great because it's awkward when it happens. But also also and correct for wrong. But priests have the ability to dispense specific people of the fast. Yes, absolutely. So you can't do like a parish wide. I just spent everyone. But if someone comes to you, you can dispense them individually. And that's also what happened here. So. Yeah. And not just fast or not just mass of fasting. It's you know, sometimes you can even dispense people from there's on the obligation that they feel that they're not going to be able to meet us. But only pastors not assistance. I got that power. You don't know what you can you can keep that power. But right now being able to leave my parish and go to a DC for a podcast is a perk I'll take. That's a pretty nice perk. Okay, so this one is from William a year out at year out William. And he says, if working at a parish has taught me anything is that you need to make it abundantly clear to your family that you want a Catholic funeral, especially if your relatives aren't Catholic. Also, a hidden catacatical crisis is the importance of and reasoning for funeral rights. And I wholeheartedly agree I don't see this so much in my parish now, but in a previous parishes I've helped out with. You would see like there would be this person who had died who probably walked to mass like every day of their life and their children for various reasons and this is not in any way to because in a moment of grieving and confusion, their decisions that are made so I'm not attacking the people individually, but it's so sad these people who I'm sure wanted a funeral mass couldn't have one because their children didn't understand they didn't write in the will. And it's just a bummer because I think a lot of times there's kind of such a fear of death and dying and a fear of grieving that a lot of times people try to do the quickest thing just to get it over with. And even though it's a painful process, in most circumstances, the healthiest thing is to go through that process just for you, you know, just for your grieving and your spirituality, but also also because offering mass for the dead is the most loving thing you can do for your deceased loved ones. Yep. And that's the second part of it, like the catechalical crisis of importance of and reasoning for funeral rights, like I don't think we talk about this enough. Oh my gosh. And then you hear stuff like, well, the funerals for the grieving and like, no, it's actually for the deceased. This is the whole point. Yes, it has an element of comfort for the grieving, but that's secondary to offering the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross for the eternal salvation of a soul. Yeah, I think the bigger one is the sacrifice part. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and it's so it's something I mean country more and more respect. My town is very interesting, like I'd say the last couple of months, I've been doing a lot of in urnments, so first lots of ash burials. Which is, I mean, it's good to say at least they're bearing them and not like scattering them, right? Right, yeah. Which you can't do, by the way, Catholics, you cannot scatter ashes. You have to be very important. put in a mausoleum. - Yep. So what I often do now is, Like, I get just these, I'm like, did they have a funeral out of town? They said, no, like my secretary said, no, no, they just want the internment. They maybe had a, they'll tell their, oh, they had a celebration of life earlier or whatever. So what I just do privately now is I just take their name and I just write down, okay, please give them a mass intention for this state. And then I'll say a mass for them privately or a mass for whatever. Just because I'm like, you know, these people need, they need a mass set for their deceased soul. That is the whole point of this. So that's what we, I try to do now at least to try and make up for what hasn't happened. And it's part, and it's yeah, it's going to get worse, it's going to get worse. Sorry, but yes, put it in your will, make it, make it a qualification for the releasing of your estate. That you require a Catholic funeral mass. Good. And these are the conditions of the funeral mass to happen for your estate to be released for the inheritance. You can do that. Yep. And also you can like pre-arrange a lot of this stuff with funeral homes. Yeah, you can pre-arrange and even sometimes even pay for whatever you need for the mass and everything. So all that stuff is important to care of. Absolutely. So this is from Daniel J Chin at Daniel J Chin. Where in the germ or missile does it talk about how the EMHC should use hand sanitizer? Do you remember a time when we didn't use hand sanitizer because I do. I do too. It happens. I don't know when it started like the hand sanitizer thing got so big at masses. Maybe like, I don't know, 15 years ago, or I have no idea. I would save me not even that long, like 10 years ago, even maybe. I don't know. So here, here, when I got to the parish, one of the first things I did was I got rid of the hand sanitizer. But the germ's father hair is saying, don't you care about the health of your people? Yeah, but if you can shake hands with people and you can receive the Eucharist and you. Okay, you sign a piece. You've just shaken hands with a bunch of people. And I'm not talking about the EMHC. And that's a shorthand form for extra-ready minister of holy communion. I'm not talking about the EMHC here. I'm talking about just the average Catholic in the few. You've shaken a bunch of hands. And then you often will go receive Jesus in your hand. Yep. So if you can receive Jesus in your hand, then your hand is no more or less dirtier than the hand that the person who's giving you the Eucharist. I think that's fair. I think there's a deeper thing that we're missing here that as Catholics, we are one body. And if someone's going to get a disease, I think we should all get it together. And all this stuff we're together to offer up that suffering. But here's the thing, just wash your hands before Mass. Like if you're a EMC, wash your hands before Mass. The priests, there's even prayers. The priests can pray while washing his hands before Mass. Just do that. Because the thing is, I mean, it's not a huge deal. This is not a huge deal. But the priest even washes his hands during the Mass, too. Right. I only use a little bit of water. It's very symbolic when I do it. But when you see all these people lining up and there's a pumping of the thing and then there's this. Yup, rubbing of hands. It's just distracting. And this is the other reason. This is why I got rid of it, actually. Okay. When you put it on your hands, it's often a-not dried out. And it gets a little sticky. Yeah. When you're handling the Eucharist, that means fragments are going to start sticking to your hand that shouldn't be. Oh, yeah. That's no good. And then this is the thing I also don't get. They're very keen to clean their hands before the Eucharist. But they're not so keen to remove particles from their fingers after handling the Eucharist. Do you have an Abolution Cup by your Tabernacle? I just got one. Good. Good. So the Abolution Cup, which is a fun little term, is this. Usually it says a little cup, usually it has a little lid on it, and it's by the Tabernacle. It's full water. Yeah, full of its regular water. And next to it will probably be a little purificator or a little cloth. And you just kind of dip your hands in there to remove any particles. And then within the week, somebody will put that down the Sikrarium. The Sikrarium is the special sink that goes right into the ground. We do not have a Sikrarium. If you have a Sikrarium, you just. I just, you know, reverently put it into the garden bed of the bushes and bury it. Yeah, so that's what you do. You don't put Jesus Christ into the sewage system. Actually, I want to get a Sikrarium, but it's actually, it's kind of. Well, it's expensive and it's hard just the way the parish. They didn't. Again, this is the thing that's just. I find vastly this. My parish was built in 1958. So it's hard to the council. They need to build a Sikrarium into it. Wow, that's amazing. Right, so again, it's just it's unique to me, right? So I would like to build one, I'm not sure. I think there might be a way to do it in another room, but I haven't quite figured that out yet. That's a project I'm thinking about still. I like it. Yes. Okay, so next up is a friend of the show at Tiwa Token, who never gets mad at me for improving things I say on Twitter. She says, "Hasven got a pumpkin spice latte. Please pray for our marriage in this troubling time." I offer to do their almond paperwork. That's very kind, because like, hopefully it doesn't come to that, but I mean, this is a big deal. I mean, these should be on the question here. Part of it, right? Are you pro or against PSLs? PSLs. I am, so here's the thing. Sometimes things are good, and you shouldn't make a big deal out of them. Like, if you like pumpkin spice, that's great. A little bit excited about the season for pumpkin spice, it's fine. But because it's become such a meme in the culture, it makes me hate it. Now, when it comes to coffee, I am all about getting a latte. I remember being so offended. I went to a coffee shop and my little parish. And I asked for a latte, and they said, "Do you want a thing in it?" And I was like, "No." And I was like, "Okay, one plain latte." I was like, "No, no, no, it's not a plain latte. It's just a latte." It's just a latte, you know? So I'm just a little bit more, not a huge coffee purist, but a little bit more so. But if you like pumpkin spice, if you like, I don't know, something a little bit of mint in your coffee, that can be nice too. That's fine. But can we just let good things be good? Do we have to make them like a whole thing? Right. But do you ever drink pumpkin spice? Oh, no, I tried to sip once and I hated it. So this is why I offered my services to them as a couple, because it's a big deal. It's a big deal. I think it's an impediment to ordination. I think. I mean, I'm pretty sure we called it the Council of Orange for Reason. And I'm pretty, because pumpkins are orange, and I'm pretty sure there's something in there against PSLs. So I am very much against them, and I think they're horrible. And I hear Caitlin's concern. Yeah, absolutely. And all the things you said just now were facts and true. No need to fact-check us, unclearly speaking. Just trust us. We are the badgest stereotypes. You should be obedient to clearly speaking. And on that note, it's time for Presbyteral exhortations. And now, it is time for Presbyteral exhortations. Oh, yeah, it's quite good. Oh, my God, I'm doomed, please. I bet they can't wait to learn. They're going to learn. It's my favorite part. Yeah, it's quite too much. So before you go, I just got to say, it's just nice to know that for the next while, we can just do either index or Presbyteral exhortations that we can dispense with pastoral councils. Indeed. I mean, it's my favorite bumper. And it's sad that we didn't have the bumper in our last episode. But that wasn't Nick's fault. He sent them the bumper. They didn't use it. But it is by far my favorite bumper because it is so- So this is just proof that Nick is a better editor? Yeah. Yeah. But let's talk about obedience, Father Harrison. All right. So because editors desk is still on my mind, since it was so recent for us, I want to play a game of greater than less than. OK. And it's a horribly unfair question, but that's what makes it fun. The evangelical councils. Oh, man. OK. The evangelical councils are-- Oh, my god, my brain. Poverty Chastiobedience. OK. Greater than less than. OK. It's going to go-- I'm going to say Chastity is greater than obedience is greater than poverty. Interesting. So because it's a totally unfair question, and they're all, I think, pretty equal, but I'm tempted to actually put obedience at the top, particularly now, because it seems to be so misunderstood. Right, OK. They're all related, of course. But let's talk about obedience. Because I know about you. We don't make promises of poverty, right? No. And we only make a promise. And we only make a promise of celibacy not Chastity, which is a weird canonical distinction. Right. I mean, it's very-- Yes, because it's implied that Chastity is for all. Right, right. You don't need to make a particular promise for something that every Christian is obliged to do. Exactly, exactly. But a lot of people, when they're either first discerning or if they're thinking about the priesthood or religious life, I think the thing they think is the most difficult is celibacy. Do you think the most difficult thing is celibacy? I don't think so at all. But I think it's a very fruitful one, actually. But it's interesting. It's always when I thought it would be that could make stuff or whatever, but it's really-- because I was like, you know, you always is afraid like what's the only reason. it's gonna be like this and I'm like, no, it's really, it's really not been too much of a problem. - Yeah, same. Like certainly, - I mean. - So just to make a quick distinction in celibacy is a state of not being married. - Yeah. - And chastity is a state of living out your life in a virtuous way, whatever state of life you're in. - Yeah. - So that's the kind of purity sort of thing. - Yeah. - And I think everyone until like two minutes before you die, chastity is always gonna be a temptation there. So certainly that's a thing. But the whole celibacy in my life as well. Like for the most part, that's not the thing that's on my mind the most days. You know what I'm doing? - You meet families and stuff, you're like, hmm. - Celibacy has its perks. - It does, it does. So definitely family life has its perks too, right? I'm not trying to navigate it obviously folks, you know that. - But that's, I mean, that's really important. Like family life has its blessings and its crosses. That's why it's so important for us to be friends with families because you see both of those aspects. And while you see that's beautiful, you also see it's not some eternal paradise. We're all waiting for that when Jesus comes again. So absolutely. But I think if you ask, this is my, in my case, if you ask most parish priests, which one is the most difficult? I think they'll say obedience. - Mm-hmm. - Because the most difficult thing for parish priests particularly is when you know, you've made a home in the parish, you've entered into the lives of these families, you've done your best to bring them closer to Jesus Christ, their connections there, and then you get the letter, you get the phone call, it's time to move, and you just have to move, right? And maybe it's to a more difficult parish assignment, maybe it's just difficult, 'cause change is difficult, but that is the most difficult thing, obedience. Like, subverting my will to the will of the bishop. - Right. - Right? - Yeah, I think also like-- - I can't also speak just one thing in there too. And one thing I'm coming to experience more and more that while it's a fundamentally different way of expressing itself, there is obedience towards the bishop and the church and the pope, et cetera, and the magisterium, and there's also obedience if you will to your parish. - Yeah, right, like just love demands and obedience, right? And it demands a patient following with the people who you serve. And what I mean, not by doing their will at all times, but listening carefully to their needs, and sacrificing your own will and your own desires to provide for what they need in this moment in time. So like, when you are getting a phone call at two o'clock in the morning, it goes to the hospital, that's an obedience to your people. - Yeah, like-- - 'Cause I would prefer to sleep. - Yes, indeed. - Right. - But I sacrifice that good for the good of my people. And that, like for me, that's where I've been, and I think that's an equal struggle for priests that we maybe don't talk about sometimes. The obedience of love towards the people. It's something I, we mentioned this on the podcast a few weeks ago, where they're talking about loving your parishards and stuff like that. And this is the thing I've really come into terms with, that I've been trying to grow in my obedience to my people as well. - Yeah, absolutely. So we're gonna talk a little bit about obedience, 'cause I think this doesn't just apply to priests. Obviously, we have more deeper experience of it as priests, and we're coming from it from that perspective, but the evangelical councils are for every Christian. - Right. - But the thing is, with the difficulty of the church's facing, particularly right now, when you have so many bishops who are doing wrong things or seem to be covering stuff up, or seem to be, or proven to-- - Or starting sinners against the Pope's will. - Yeah, exactly. - Who the hell knows what's going on with the German bishops? It's horrifying. I don't get it. I don't understand it. - I'm sorry, I get it from myself. - No, it's true. It's like, so, I mean, I don't want to get into that right now 'cause I'm not right up enough, but like, yeah, that's cause of our concern. So with all of that going on, I think sometimes the obedience gets thrown out with the bathwater, but also just the Western mindset in general is very anti-obedience. I think particularly in America, but I think Western mindset in general. - So let's kick this off with a quote from Benedict. He says, "In an age in which emancipation, if regard is regarded as the true heart of redemption, and freedom appears as the right to do everything I myself want to do, and only that, the concept of obedience is, so to speak, anathematized." There's such a focus on what I want to do and my freedom and a misunderstanding of freedom that the very idea of obedience is repugnant to us. And you see this very much in popular culture. Whenever someone's asking you to be obedient in popular culture, it's always big brother or some tyrant obedience means never thinking for yourself. Obedience means doing stuff blindly, and this is the popular idea of obedience in the culture. - Yeah, so lately I've been reading Fiona Hawley is going to be very happy about this. I've read a lot of Giazani. She's been waiting for the day for me to drop that name. So Giazani, Ramanogia, Luigi Giazani. The founder of Giazani, I don't know who he is, but I love the name. - Luigi Giazani. Giazani, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Very good Italian, right? - He is the founder of Community and Liberation, or as father Josh Mayer likes to call him, the juice. - The juice, the juice. And he's talking about this idea of obedience, right? That this, I've been reading a lot of his stuff actually on obedience, and he puts obedience in concert with the theological virtue of faith. And he says like, we always look at this idea of freedom as this ability to choose for myself, like Benedict's talking about, right? I have the right to do everything as I want to do. He says, freedom is actually not created just to exercise my own will for myself at all times. It's actually kind of trying to face reality as it really is, and to choose the true thing that brings life to really, freedom is the ability to choose for something outside of myself that's greater than myself, not to choose my own will and my own things I want to do, which means that he says this is like a following, and this word of obedience kind of comes in. I'm sorry if I got ahead of you there, but that was good, that was good, yeah. Because obedience and freedom are actually pretty related. - Very, really, yeah. - Obedience helps us to become free. - And even if it's funny things, even if I say obedience makes us free, like that sounds like something I have 1984, but it really is one of these paradoxes of the church that brings about a greater truth. So I think just a quick aside about the nature of the church 'cause oftentimes obedience and the church, I think these things are wrapped up, and there's a tendency for people to separate the visible and invisible natures of the church. So there's this idea that the church is kind of this purely spiritual thing, and the problem with that, if the church is purely spiritual, there's a temptation to make the church whatever I want it to be. So, and this is the right in line with the whole freedom is choosing whatever I want. If you take on that attitude, you can listen to your parish priest or not listen to him. You can listen to your bishop or not. You can make the church what you want it to be. But the church is both visible and invisible. And just like you can't separate the invisible and visible natures of Christ, he's human and divine, you can't separate the visible and invisible natures of the church. The church has a body, and you have to be obedient to that body. So, this is what Benedict says. Christian faith is never just spiritual and inward, never just a subjective or a personal, private relationship with Christ and his word, but it is entirely concrete and ecclesial. And this kind of goes back to what we were saying about the denial of mediation. When you make something purely spiritual and refuse to enter into the incarnate world and the incarnate word it as well, then you make things about just yourself. And what the church does is it pulls you out of yourself into this, into the real reality. And the reason why obedience is so important is because of the fall and because of Jesus Christ. The original sin was an act of disobedience. Adam and Eve in their pride were disobedient to God. And there's this whole way of looking at redemption as the obedience of Christ. So, Benedict says the sublime, crystallological obedience, which reverses the disobedience of Adam finds concrete form and ecclesiastical obedience. Okay, so let's, we're gonna break that down a little bit. I'm gonna read for a second from scripture. This is from second Philippians. There's no, no, no, no. There's only one Philippians. Oh, sorry, oh, sorry. Philippians chapter two, first six. Yeah, five, five to 11, right? Five to 11, there you go. It's the, the hymn in Philippians very famous. Yes. So this is what it says, this is Paul talking. Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus. Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped? Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness, found in human appearance. He humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on the cross. Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth, under the earth, and every tongue and fast. that Jesus Christ is Lord, it's the glory of God, the Father. Amen. Amen, it's a beautiful little hymn. Yeah. We pray at every Thursday night, and you know, Saturday night need be prayer. Yes, it's pretty often, so if you do the office, you're very familiar with this hymn. Yeah. But the first sin is an act of disobedience that brings about death. The obeisance of Christ is an act that he performs unto death but brings life to us. So if you think about it this way, there's a lot of different ways to look at redemption, but this is one avenue to kind of approach it. Jesus Christ was always faithful to the Father. If you look at human beings from time of Adam and Eve, all throughout salvation history, there's constant disobedience, turning away from the goodness that God offers for these other perceived goods, these lesser goods. There's always a refusal to accept God and who he is and searching for these other gods. Jesus Christ was always obedient, and you see this so often in the Scriptures. And when you hear Jesus Christ say things like it's not my will, it's the Father's will. Right. He's teaching us obedience through his very being, what he's saying, and what he's doing. And he's showing the heart of God. Right. Speak more of that. Well, just Jesus makes visible the trinitarian relationships. So his obedience as the word of God, the second person of the trinity, he is showing that this idea of obedience is actually the heart of God, like whatever Jesus reveals about himself and who he is in relationship to the Father, reveals something at the heart of who God is. It's with John Paul's second talk about and God in his spouse. That Jesus reveals justice to us previously unknown. And so this idea of obedience that Jesus lives is really, it's actually revealing to us something about how God's heart is. Yeah, absolutely. So Jesus Christ, in becoming incarnate, he kind of pulls into himself all the disobedience of man and he begins to untwist it through his life. Because very often, the times when we are disobedient, it's when we're uncomfortable. We try to do it to avoid suffering or perceive suffering or just, to be honest in daily life, just being uncomfortable. So you have this image and this reality of Christ in the garden. His body doesn't want to go through what he's going to go through. He knows it's going to be painful, but he's obedience to the Father whom he loves. And that kind of conflict is what was why he sweats blood. So he's taking on all the disobedience of man has ever happened. And because he is man, because he's entered into humanity, he can finally bring all of humanity obediently back to God. So he's on the cross. And he's been perfectly obedient his entire life. And what has he got for his obedience? His friends never understand him. The ones he loves and that's including the Pharisees. He's continuing to persecute him. They continue to be petty and pathetic and legalistic. But he still continues to love them. He still continues to be faithful to God. Now they're killing him, they're mocking him. And even in all of this, he's obedient. And he experiences in that moment, even though he's being obedient, he's still the suffering servant. It seems as if to the world that he's being punished for his obedience. And he cries out, oh God, oh God, why have you forsaken me? And there's something a priest once told me. It's almost as if God is reminding Jesus Christ who is God is reminding God the Father of his obedience. I've done all of this why you forsaken me. And that's part of the spirit of that song. God is always faithful. God the Father is always faithful. So how is he going to be faithful to his son? He's faithful to his son in a way that we could never have imagined. Because Christ dies, but God continues to be faithful to his son who is obedient to him. He's faithful by doing something radical, not by simply plucking him off the cross, but by raising him from the dead. And as he raises Jesus Christ from the dead, he's raising all of humanity in this new state of being. And it's because of that obedience and God's faithfulness that have met on the cross and through the resurrection that we are saved. So in a sense, we're saved by the obedience of Jesus Christ. Right. Not just in a sense, really. Really, really, truly. Right, right. I always say in a sense because I think there's other ways to look at it as well. Absolutely. But this is definitely a central way to look at it. And this is why if you read any of the saints, they're focused, especially in religious life. Their focus is so much on obedience. Obedience is worth more than any kind of suffering as you may undergo obedience is worth more than any kind of fasting you can undergo because it most perfectly imitates the life of Jesus Christ. Well, that's why obedience as a principle is so important. Right, look at Mother Teresa's life, right? It was the feast day yesterday, right? She made that vow to God that she would refuse God nothing. That's what that is. If in a way, it's actually not a new vow in a way, right? It's just a living out of the more deeper way for vow obedience. Right. So what does this mean for us? So we're going to go back to Benedict. Yeah. And when he talks about being obedient to the church as imitation of Jesus Christ being obedient to the Father, he says in this, "I am not being obedient to a Jesus whom I, or others, think up of out of scripture." In that case, I would be worshiping, I would be obeying my own favorite ideas. And the picture of Jesus Christ I had imagined, I would be worshiping myself. No, obeying Christ means obeying his body, obeying him in his body. And this is the crux of it. If obedience is a vague thing, if we're not obedient to an incarnate person, then the temptation and the fall is often that I'm only obedient to my own ideas of Christ. I'm only obedient to my own ideas of the church. In a sense, I'm only obedient to myself. In that sense, I am worshiping myself. Right. So, I want to break this open on a, I don't know, I'm beginning, I'm getting more pastroly. Yeah, good. Good. I'm glad. Let's break this open and how this plays out. I hope I don't think I don't think I'm kind of, kind of, getting ahead of you here. No, I do want to break this out into practical stuff. Yeah, we'll just, I can perish life, right? Because so, yeah. There are various, so that, I guess, we talked a little bit about this in our episode of Magisterium, right? Different levels of, the obedience of faith and what that looks like. So that means, for example, when the Pope speaks, especially when he's speaking as an act of teaching, we always are to give it the benefit of the doubt at the very least. When the, when the menstrual acts are happening through teaching documents from the church, et cetera. Again, we give it the obedience of faith, which means I presume the best of the documents, et cetera. Yeah. And the same thing happens with, I would then we have to get that more local, okay? I obey a bishop. So when a bishop makes a policy, which is within his rights to make in his diocese, because the law of the church allows bishops to make certain policy, and even certain, the surgical norms, it is our duty to obey this. Yes. So for example, the germ, now people might disagree what that the germ allows this, and that's a reasonable day they'd have. But the germ does state that the local bishop, or the local bishop's conference, have the rights to determine certain postures at certain times in the liturgy. Correct. Now, I've heard a bishop, like this is where it gets interesting, because I've heard sometimes the bishops instituting like standing at the, at the consecration. Well, the germ actually doesn't allow that. Right. So there's a higher authority that overrides the bishop. So there you would actually be right to disobey the bishop. Right? Right. But I guess what I'm saying though, is like, I see the opposite often. So like in our diocese, we kneel at the consecration, then after the mystery of faith, we stand. And we're standing until the time of communion, and after people receive communion, they go back to their own thing. Which is a pretty normal thing in Canada. But some people don't like that. They're like, well, I want to kneel until I receive until the Lamb of God. And they kneel, even though the bishop is in his decree here. Yeah. And that's where that's not obedience. That is actually saying, I want to do my own thing. This is not a matter. These are legitimate things that Bishop has a right to do. Yeah. And then so that's your Episcopal's inside, right? And then again, this is where I think it gets a little tricky. When it gets to the realm of the priest. Yeah. It does get tricky because it's less, it's less clear in a lot of documents about priests and parish, I think. So this is where I, this is where I think you can hold the lines of it. Because there is a truth that priests actually do not have the carism of speaking for the magisterum. That is a carism revert reserve just two bishops. Right. So we, we kind of express what the bishops teach. Right. But, and so we acquire, and a priest is a cooperator with the bishops, right? Correct. Yeah. However, a bishop though does, he does place guys in parishes. And he gives them certain authority. Like as a, as assistance or as pastors against them certain authorities in those parishes to do certain things. So when you're a pastor, you have the, you have the grave responsibility of making decisions for the good of the parish and the good of the future of the parish. Based on all the circumstances that you lead. And I think it's always important that a pastor has to listen as much as possible. Mm-hmm. Different things. But he also has to make group decisions. And where I, I come up against it a lot. It's, I find it's, it's interesting how sometimes, uh, parishioners, this is where, this is where, if a priest is making a pastoral decision that is not like, there's no ill intent, there's no evil, I don't know, no malice to it. Then we ought, I think there, there ought to be obedience. Yeah, I think absolutely because when you became a pastor, you took a vow, what's it called? The oath of fidelity. And in that you would have said something along the lines of, "With Christian obedience, I shall follow with the bishops as authentic doctors and teachers of the faith declare, or what they, as those who govern the church, establish. I shall also faithfully assist the diocesan bishops so that the apostolic activity exercised in the name, and by the mandate of the church, maybe carried out in communion with the church." So one, that really emphasizes just how important the bishops are to the diocese, but you've made a promise to follow that. If you've made a promise to follow that, then that the parishioners obedience to their bishops is very much related to their obedience to you, I think that's a very easy connection to make. It's just very interesting that that is, I see it a lot, I'm not just talking about where I'm at now, it just generally is a priest. I see a lot of this, this is what I think is best for the parish, and if the priest isn't doing this, well then he is not a good priest, and I'm like, most priests when they're making decisions aren't doing it contrary to the communion of the church. It's very rare, and if they are, they need to be called out about that, absolutely. But if they're not, you speak your piece, but in the end, the priest decision, because here's the thing, I think there's some people that don't understand sometimes, yeah. My next step, when I do my next step is I want to talk about pastoral ministry in general, because it's something I'm starting to experience more, is when a priest is making a decision, he hears you, but guess what, you are not the only concern he has to take into account. He has shock. He has to take into account the future of the parish. What are things going to look at five, ten years down the line? He has to take into account demographics, finances. What are we able to do as a parish in terms of getting people forward? And as you get more pastoral experience, you start to learn about the virtue of patients that actually how it's a really good thing. So you might want something right away, and the priest might say, this is a good thing, but not now, right? We need to learn to be obedient to that, because here's the thing, if you love priests, you want to make their life easier, because you make their life easier. They can do more good for your church. If all you do is resist and revolt and argue and come at you about petty things all the time, you are going to wear them down to the point that they're not going to want to do it. Now, this is the other danger. This is where I do see the danger, because I think it did go the pendulum swung a little to the extreme a while ago, like in the early 20th century, where we, it's pretty much prey pay and obey to the point, like you just do what the priest says, and you don't even speak, right? Right. And that's not healthy. And that, because that inculcated a culture of power amongst the clergy that opened us up to things like the sex abuse crisis. And so there is a danger there. That's why I think the sign of a good priest is one who will listen, but he will say this is the judgment I've made, and you might not agree with it, but this is what I have to do. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple of things there. One, yes. And this does imply communication, and it's important to communicate with these people. And so often what happens in the parish is that I don't like what, or I don't like or I don't understand what the priest is doing. I read this blog that says he shouldn't be doing this. Therefore, I'm going to follow my conscience and disobey the priest. That's not obedience. No. You know, you haven't brought this. That's actually in a charitable way. That's actually Protestantism. Yeah, it is. So I know a story of a parish where they were changing up the, the formation program. And some of the people who helped out at this parish and the pre-information program didn't like the change up. Right. So they held a secret meeting saying, don't volunteer to be catechist for this new formation program because it's going to be bad, right? Like stuff like that happens in parishes, and that's something you need to bring to confession. Yeah. Like that's definitely disobedience. Yeah. So I think it's important to have some humility and going to the priest and saying, hey, I feel like, or I've read that, the church doesn't allow this. Yeah. So just tell me your reasoning behind it. Is it? And then you go from there and from that conversation. Yeah. But if it's one of these things, it's, it's an option. It's one of these things that's a matter of, of prudence or of personal judgment on path for the pastor, and you don't like it. It's now in that time you can participate in a small way in the suffering and obedience that Jesus Christ had to the Father. Because here's the thing. That's hugely beneficial for your soul. Because here's the other thing. Yeah. The priest sometimes will make a wrong decision, even though it's not against the communion of the church. Right. Right. They might just make a bad decision, but also then trust the grace of God to do his work still. Yeah. Because in the end, it's like, God makes it all right and his grace kind of comes over at the end. And it's, and it to be okay with that, they come. That's, yes, it's a suffering because it's crucifying everyone will. And you'll often find later on that this thing that was so important to you at the time. Actually, probably actually wasn't that thing of it. And you're actually grateful that you didn't fight this or whatever. Right. It's when like, I can see like, you know, if a priest came in his first day in the parish and he changed everything, like literally everything, you know what? That would be, that would be too much, right? Like there, it's a give and take. There has to be a diet. There has to be dialogue really and truly because you need to learn the culture of your parish. Like I recognize, like, maybe I did a few things a little too fast when I got here. But I've, you know, I've made it very public that I recognize this and everything. Like, and that's the thing. I think it's also like we've talked about before. It's important for priests to recognize publicly even. I made a mistake. I'm sorry. I'm still learning this. There's no school for pastoral work. So it's not seminary, actually. He's believe it or not. So I'm sorry. But we'll move on. We'll try and do better. And this is, I appreciate your patience as I learn. Right. And that's, those are important things. But it's, it's, and actually Gia Sani talks about this when he's talking about obedience that to have obedience, you need, you need, you need humility of heart like the, the, the virtue attached with this is humility. Right. Good. And one, two more things as we wrap up. Yeah. So one, and it's important that you talked about the different ways that the priest needs to be obedient. But Benedict adds that there must be a common obedience of all to the word of God. Right. And to the way he is presented to us in the living tradition of the church. So we are all obedient to the word of God and how it's presented to us in church. And this shared obligation, the fact that we're all under obedience with this, I'm adding some commentary is also a freedom that all share. It protects us from arbitrary actions and decisions and ensures that ecclesiastical obedience has a truly crystallological character. So the fact that we are all obedient to Christ and to the living tradition of the church actually is an antidote for kind of just the priest or the bishop doing willingly whatever they want. And that's when it's lived out, you know, ideally. And then finally, something that gets brought up is the idea of conscience that you always have to follow your conscience, which is true, but so because, how do I put this? Some people will say, you know, what the priest is saying when he decides that we're only receiving communion under one species now, the priest decided that, well, that goes against my conscience to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's important to realize what your conscience is and when it's not a lot of time just because just because you're cranky about something doesn't mean is your conscience. But also, it's very important to realize that if you haven't done due diligence to learn what the church teaches and what the church says, if you haven't done due diligence to form your conscience well and in the spirit of the church, then you following, quote unquote, your conscience, you're still liable to sin. Right. It doesn't take away the sin just because you're quote unquote following your conscience. It has to be well formed. So I think it's nothing to, like, bring up in the course of all this. Yeah. Absolutely. Again, that's why I think the key judgment is a moral judgment, right? If a priest is doing something that is that is negatively immoral, yeah, or immoral offense, yes, that is when you challenge. But if it's a thing of taste and policy that is within his domain to do it, right? Again, if a priest came in and said, you know what, guys, every, every other week we're going to have a lay community service so I can have a week and off, that is actually not within his rights. Right. We have to do those in my parents when I have to be away sometimes, but I do everything I can to avoid them as much as possible. Right. Like, people know, I'm going to make sure you have mass as much as possible. There may be one or two weekends once twice a year where you're not going to have that. That's different, right? He's like, ah, I just don't feel like working. Yeah, that's, that's, I would say that's a moral, right? Yeah, he's not feeling that he's not feeling the duties of his office or, yeah, or he's in an illicit relationship or he is, he's saying, you know, Joe, why don't you come up and do the Eucharistic prayer today, right? Yeah. No, no, no, no. They have to be very serious, folks. If they're not serious, you speak your peace and the priest, God willing, will hear you. But if he has a judgment that's contrary to your desires, this is not a matter of conscience. And this is where obedience is actually a very important thing. Because most priests, I would say, I want to say at least 95% of priests want the good of the church and the good of their people. So when they're making a decision, they hear you, but they're not always going to be with you. Hmm. Correct. Sorry, I just, I think Siri just got, I, I, I got a series telling us it's time to wrap up. There is, there is. And there's like, I had other, maybe we'll talk about in what way is it appropriate or or in what ways can for channel correction happen between people and priests and priests and bishops. - Yeah. - But that's all for nothing. I think we did a good job at least in an intro to obedience. - Yeah. - Yeah, well thank you for listening. Please leave a review on iTunes and tell your friends about the podcast, tell your enemies too, because Jesus says we must love our enemies. You can find me @FatherSharapha on Twitter. - You can find me @frheraton, contact the podcast and receive updates @ClaricalPod on Twitter or email us @[email protected]. Peace, God bless.