E500 Immortal Hallway Portals and Incriminating Insects

- I was literally wearing pants from Zazzle yesterday. - Wait, what? Tell me about that. - Hanks face all over them. - No. - I actually forgot that I was wearing them and then I went to the dog park and I saw someone wearing spots all over their pants. Like that, spots all over them. And I said, "Oh, nice pants." And they said, "You really are not one to talk today." - Truly, I have used Zazzle for a long time. If you want to custom gift, Zazzle's the place they've got. - If you want to custom gift of Hanks face on a pair of pants for your friend. - You could put anything on anything it seems. - Do you remember when I made a mug one time? The only reason I remember is I pulled it out this morning to go, "What mug is this?" And it was way in the back, way dusty. And I meant to send it to you ages ago. It says, "Live laugh, lemon," and Comic Sans. There's pictures of me and lemon on like everything. And then it says, "Family is forever." And I was like, "That is, that's a mental health crisis." - A threat. - Yes, sent it to you. - All of us just say, "Use Zazzle." - The opportunities are endless for gifts. Apparently a gift I got M, which by the way, I discovered again this morning. This was probably three years ago that I made this thing. - I'm telling you, Zazzle is the gift that keeps giving. And right now, save 25% of your first order at Zazzle.com. - Man, that's 25% savings on your first order at Zazzle.com. Go make some things amazing. Like I apparently did and M definitely did Zazzle.com. - Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently, we had our first scare. He ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog. In a moment like that, you really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, even your pet's particular quirks. Like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents because let's be honest, that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets. And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy. Just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters. Your pet, my little hankies and to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. One more time again, that's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. - So I've talked a lot about OCD recently with people. And it's so eye-opening to hear the different kinds of OCD people have in the way it manifests differently for people and it's been very eye-opening because I think I keep learning about OCD and that's why I love that no CD is a sponsor because they do have so many resources and so much information. And I do wish I had known about it sooner but it's always helpful to learn OCDs a lot more than just the stereotypes, you know. It's a serious and highly misunderstood condition and can cause stressful unwanted thoughts, intrusive thoughts as they're called and they can be really debilitating. So it's not an easy road. - And not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively which can make it difficult to find the right help. But OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP or exposure response prevention. And with no CD you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD and no CD therapists are highly trained. So they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. And no CD therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. - I mean snaps, that's amazing. On top of everything else because even with the ERP therapy which is what helped me get my compulsions under control many years ago and has remained like the most effective way to help with my OCD. I just always recommend no CD but the fact that they do the insurance on top of it is awesome. If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. - That's nocd.com to schedule a free call and learn more. (upbeat music) (bell dinging) - Okay, I just need like, just count to 500 and I'll be ready. (laughing) - Okay, I'll do it like Leonidus. One, two, three, six, five hundred. Wow, now that's special. - Everybody, it is our 500th episode. I'm trying to figure out how to make this the way it needs to be. - Now why did we get one time balloons that said six, six, six? - Hmm, do you recall that day? - Yep. - Maybe that was like including listener episode. - Because no, 'cause it was our sixth year and so they just put it like. - Oh, okay. - Our lovely team just made it. - Oh, that's so nice. They just tripled it. And the man from Balloonatex said, this is insane and I said, you work for a company called Balloonatex and he said, actually I found it and I said, please close the door, I must lock it now. - So you're welcome for the business, by the way. - So like Balloonatex and a six, six, six order feels like exactly the right match is all I'll say. - Yeah, 100%. - Well, what a delightful little backdrop. 500 balloon, I'm sorry, 500 balloons, no. Three balloons with 500 zero. - You got it. - How do I explain this? There's not 500 balloons, but there are, it feels like it sometimes on my head. - You know what? - I just happy 500 Chrissy, I mean, obviously when you add up like listeners episodes and like, you know, Patreon is like, and actually, what, six, six, six. I bet you today is six, six, six. If you like to do that. - Someone do the math. - It's girl math, don't do the math 'cause I think it's right. - Okay, well, we've definitely done already over 100 listeners episodes, so, or right? - Yeah, so then that would make it 600. - 600 and then you add like anything we've done for parapods recently and Patreon and anytime we've recorded with other people on their shows. - And then we get a little bit picky about like, well, only Chrissy, Chrissy was like sneezing during this one, we'll cut it, that doesn't count, you know? And so by the time we get to, Chrissy fell asleep halfway through this one, so. - Oh, I was gonna mention that. Well, you beat me to it. - I was sorry, I know it's usually your joke. - No, it's a good one. Well, I was, do you have, I'm putting you on the spot so you can say no, but do you have, out of the official 500 episodes, do you have any favorite little moments? - You know, I was just talking to, I've met a few people recently that are like, that I, it's so random, like it's just synchronous, like going around and like doing, I've been trying to be just more, I don't know, coming out of sort of a chrysalis type phase of like, I'm finally kind of getting back out into the world a little bit and I've met some friends of friends and talked a lot about this kind of stuff because it's like, oh, when people find out what you do, they're like, oh, I want to talk about, I'm always curious, like what podcast you listen to and also like what kind of true crime, whatever. And someone asked me, like what are your favorites that you've covered? And I was like, ooh, it's been a long time. So I just had this conversation with like a new person which was kind of fun. And I got to tell them all about Israel keys. And that was one of my favorite things because it's always really uncomfortable and unpleasant and it, you know, never know how someone's gonna react but it was like, okay. And then I thought about it and I was like, oh, but my other favorite one is anytime we do, my example is DB Cooper where it's like an age old mystery or like the summer, or I'm trying to think like you do a lot of these like, or like HH homes, something like very classic but like dark and mysterious, I don't know. And those kind of like age old, like history, travel channel, history channel style ones where you could just go down every rabbit hole and like find a new explanation or like the spy ones. I just love those ones because like, there's so many random avenues you could go and they add a little mistier. So that's where I landed. I mean, as far as serial killers, like the Israel keys one is the one that effed me up the most but I know I share that a lot. So, but yeah, what about you Emma? Over half a millennia, it's worth of, that's not quite how that works. - Sentry? - Sentry. - No, no, no. - Sentry. - No. - Oh yeah, wow. - Half a millennia. - Wow. - Well, no, because it's 500 episodes, not 500 years but, you know, five. (laughing) - I'll take it, whatever, I'll take it. I, you know, my favorite, I mean, obviously covering the Winchester Mystery House 19 trillion times, all 500 times actually. - I mean, the one being there was especially special, I would say, but that's a given. - The one for the Carriage House, yeah. - Agreed, live from the Carriage House. - Live from the Carriage House. - I think. - Oh, with the equipment, that was so fun. - Annie's Act Bagan's especially Rosa's roses. - Rosa's literally falling asleep last night. And I started seeing all these roses in my head and then my brain went, "Roses, roses?" And I went, "No, no, we don't put. " No, no, we don't need a soundtrack. We don't need a soundtrack. We don't need that. - I was also thinking about, this is such like a time capsule, but during COVID, our live shows, where we had like, girl, remember them, please. Oh my God, like our live shows from the couch. - Sorry, I dissociated because you said a really threatening series of terms in one row. And unlike a sleeper agent, I became a fall asleep agent, which is where, a sleeping agent, which is where you say three words and I go, "Komatoos." - They just knocked the fuck out of that. - Yeah, I'm like, COVID live shows, it just all sounded really traumatic. So, - No, we're not from the couch. - Wait, we're from the Carriage House. - What did we do? - We did. - I was very drunk. I was very drunk and very mentally, I mean, very mentally and well during COVID, which all of us were. But we have, like, a lot of us. lot of people live streaming in to watch us like live report stories like we take a big deal. No. We did them just virtually. It was like remember what was it called like moment house or something or was it was your moment has ended. We tried to do we tried to do one I flew all the way to LA and then the technology didn't work. We did it at Spotify Studios a lot of you might remember well some of you might remember this because like we we pitch it we sold tickets it was this whole thing and then like the entire time and was having health issues. Oh my god. I literally had to leave I like I had to like so bad. It'd be upside down like off camera like your heart issues and then meanwhile like and I are having a fucking panic attack and we're trying not to stress you out because you have a heart condition. Even I were like trying to get something to work and then all of a sudden like the the the help we were allegedly receiving from moment house no bad blood just saying at the time it was really rough just kind of vanished and we were all like so what do we do and then there was just this flash on the screen because this is what happens after the live stream with moment house which was like a virtual live stream thing. It just said on the screen your moment has ended and we all went okay I guess that's a clear enough fucking sign and we had to refund everyone and I felt terrible but anyway I honestly think I'd if I was ever going to have like heart problems in the middle of a live show that was the one because I was I mean talk about another memory is like anytime we were on stage and be thinking I was gonna like you know ambulance yeah I mean there was a lot so when you say those words I'm like I didn't need a moment no no no you were the one traumatized by that incident I mean I at least got to go back and just hang out in LA for a bit but yeah there was a lot there's a lot yeah but those were fun I mean not that one particularly but like I got to be honest the plunger for it and like like I'm trying to think of like all all the way back at the beginning but I'm not this is not meant to like like shade you at all it truly is one of my favorite memories is when you've also been me recording oh my god I've noticed like if I just kind of accept that some of people's my closest closest confidants favorite memories of me are just things that I'm really being a dumbass I've just got to like lean into that as like a form of like it was so good it was I mean like you literally shouldn't write that like but like it just happened natural like it was just so funny and like the fact that it cuts ads and then it cuts to good morning it's the next it is and it's the fact that I was like trying so like math like trying so hard to perform this version of like I'm awake and laughing and there was like this moment where you were like why are you laughing I didn't say anything and I was like it was really hard you're like why are you laughing I was like because that was funny and you were like I didn't say anything and I was like oh oh oh oh oh Christine it was I I loved it I was a really good memory and so it was the plunger for I mean it was all the times in the especially in the beginning when we didn't he asked the brand no what we were doing we were trying to figure it out you know to all that good stuff the live streams we never talk about this remember when we had rain Wilson on that was amazing I mean fever dream like really top tier experience it's just so there's so many and I got my covid shot that day and I remember being like what is this world we're living in you know I remember he was he didn't say anything particularly critical but he did notice that I've record from my bedroom and I don't I still think about that where I'm like should I have not been did he went where are you and I went my bedroom he went you record there I like I was like I don't I don't have a whole office effing hilarious yeah I mean and now as someone who's not currently but typically recording in their bed because it's just more comfortable I'm like oh damn but yeah that was quite a I felt very raw and vulnerable during that experience um if you talked about semen his semen he well to be fair you kind of started it I encouraged it the conversation for sure of us didn't encourage it so I'll give you that yeah um but yeah they were there were a lot of fun times by the way I book I do want to drink my drink so I'm going to tell you what it is I went to the big B the big B got me a drive through mocha with oat milk and had therapy this morning and my therapist gave me like a really really lovely and sincere pep talk and it was like oh yeah really needed and it was very like authentically and it's not something like she just kind of throws around you know what's lovely yeah like she's very supportive but like today she was like hey I just want you to like really hear me when I say this and I was like oh here we go and then she said like some really assertively kind and just like made me take the compliment and I was like thank you I needed that I needed a little morale boost in this day and age you know so it was a very uh very nice yeah it was nice to leave therapy and feel like you know just um just like yeah I felt I felt good and then I went to my big B and got my little mocha and um and now I'm here living the dream 500 500 so that's why I drink why do you drink I also drink because it's 500 just to it's I'm not trying to you know force memory lane where it's not where it's not you know just happening organically but just the you know I just woke up thinking about like oh episode one and then what we looked like at episode 10 and episode 50 in 100 and I just it was it was just very sweet today so I'm just very grateful to you very grateful to listeners and because of that I drink a milkshake oh listen if I were not sober yes I'd be fucking having a ball okay well I thought you might say that Christine and that's why for your story I have another milkshake and I'll drink it in your heart oh that's so nice so I'm double fisting for the both of us today and I know that's harmful to your whole composure as an adult person now in your body so I do appreciate the sacrifice I'm not 24 anymore you know we should post that picture of us with that ice cream cake like when we were just like we got 10,000 listens 10,000 dollars oh yeah and there was like one of me in the hospital for Crohn's and you're like you like brought the newspaper of us being mentioned um it feels like a weird museum wall where they have like a black like a sepia tone picture of us I mean I remember the first time we were with a network and we saw like our logo framed on someone's wall that always fell outrageous it felt like we were all punking ourselves and everyone yeah I want to also take a moment to say that I'm so grateful for this and everything we've built and it's it's beautiful and wonderful and it's been the most healing wonderful it like surreal experience my life and I I think when we did the episode and it came out and the now the announcement about me leaving came out there was like maybe a disconnect because well hey you've talked about this a lot of like we've known for a long time and so we've had a lot of time to process and maybe it didn't come off as like emotionally but be like yeah I didn't want it to seem like I was like eh by you know I am yeah it's it's been a very bitter sweet hole decision-making process and all this but yeah it is there is just so much love and joy and like literally laughter and hilarious hilarity and things that will never go away you know so there's that and I am I am forever just so I mean think about like what the fuck else would we have been doing for the last 10 years you know like imagine if we just were like man it's insane to think about I'd probably still be at the prop house I mean yeah I guess I would have like clawed my way into like a full like a more full-time long-term position and like a lot and maybe or and then like I don't know felt kind it's weird it's funny how when the what ifs come out it's like well just wherever you last were off because yeah it's like probably that's not what would have happened I probably wouldn't have gotten a job ended up like doing something I mean I guarantee COVID would have probably sent me straight back to Virginia like yeah valid point we probably and who knows we might have not even stayed in LA for another five whatever anyway it doesn't matter but it's it does matter but it's not you know there's nothing we can but it's beautiful I dream yeah and I love it I love it I just feel like we did such an awesome thing and we've done we're continuing to do such an awesome thing and yeah I'm very proud of us really 500 episodes not a fucking small feat dude I feel I swear I feel like at some point when we kind of felt like oh maybe this is gonna be something I feel like we said the phrase like at episode 500 we were like oh that's like a decade from now and we would laugh and laugh yeah yeah because we were also bad at math back then too like I was like I was like you get that's half a millennia that's in 500 years like that's like that's and you were like oh you're right and that's how yeah we were behaving that way we were so dumb we actually how dumb were we we got a like a phone number before we even knew the name of the podcast we just bought a phone number for some reason and we didn't know what we would do so we did everything we did all of it we thought this will be an extra $10 but it's worth it for the phone number um absolutely so I'm glad I hope nobody probably ever called us um but I'm sure over these nine 10 years there's um maybe one spam call in that mailbox someone must have called it at some point right so I would think so um anyway so all that say I love the 500s I love the I love the little memory lane talk I have been talking to people a lot more about like just like what the what the fun topics have been and stuff like that well I have one for you today and at some point I'm going to have to run off and get my extension cord because my-- Oh yeah, no worries. The nature of not sitting in my nook means I don't have a charger or an outlet near me. Accessible, yeah, gotcha. By the way, and I was-- I can't wait for my fucking story for you today because search and I kind of did it like a team effort and it's just kick us. I can't wait. Well, I'm glad to hear that. It was-- mine was oddly-- I don't know what the right word is. It's going to be awesome. Don't even second guess it for a minute. Well, no, no, I'm not second guess. I'm saying this. Okay. I don't know what-- I literally don't know what the right word is, so I don't want to say the wrong one. I see. But what's the-- is it synchronous, synchronicity or whatever the phrase is? Because a while ago, weeks ago I posted like-- by the way, I'm sitting in a shorter chair so now I can like rest my arm on the table and it's so cute. It's kind of cute. Something like you're like on the phone with like a high school friend, you know, and just like-- Yeah. Yeah. Usually I'm like fee-fi-fo-fum-hunching-over, so this is what-- Oh, yeah. And I like all the way in the back, like, yeah, yelling. Yeah. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Domains. We have you Squarespace since we started the podcast almost 10 years ago. Actually, in the Schultz-Worth Manor, we now have two family members using Squarespace because Allison and her jewelry business, Fortress Craft, just started using Squarespace themselves. She was like, "I really need a website," and I said, "We've never had a problem with Squarespace. You gotta use them." Squarespace, your domain comes with everything included from the moment that you register. You get every feature, every tool, everything you need to manage, everything for your website, just in one place, from email forwarding to domain renewals. You don't have to worry about going elsewhere for any of it. It's all in one spot. And now you can not just secure your domain without any extra fees when we were starting our website. It costs all this extra money just to have the rights to the name or to the URL, but Squarespace has that handled. And your domain includes advanced built-in security and privacy protections with an activity log, so you know everything that's going on your website at all times. You never have to wonder when something changed at all. And with Squarespace, you also can unlock a full suite of tools, not just the website builder, but email campaign scheduling, all of that from, again, just one place. It's really wonderful. We love Squarespace. We have been singing their praises for a long time, and that's because for the last 10 years, they have only gotten better and better and better. So please go check them out. Check out Squarespace.com/drinkforfreechile. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a domain. We all know I like my razzlam powdered water, my little powder for my drinkies, but that's the only flavor of that brand that I like. And I would, I was really perusing for a variety. I wanted a variety. It could be like you were looking for a cure, maybe, for yourself and the way that you wanted, maybe to cure your thirst. No, it's interesting that you say something like that. Because I really try to only drink water in the house, but I get really bored very easily of tasting, like, nothing. So luckily, cure came in, and a cure came in from cure. I'm currently obsessed with our peach tea flavor. That's very nice. I see. The peach tea sounds so good. I need to try that. They have a berry pomegranate. I think. That's the one that I, that's currently in my pantry. Also delicio. They have a raspberry. They have strawberry kiwi. Once they have razzlam, I'm officially just going to move right over. You're just like fully moved in. Yeah. Well, and what I like, dude, like, they're not too sweet. They're not too salty. They taste like actual fruit without the, like, artificially flavor, which I know people kind of struggle with. And like, has a ton of flavors, which is also, like, people like you and I who get bored very easily with our beverage choices and need constant stimulation on that front. Yeah. They really make it work for us and get us hydrated at the same time. Here's the electrolyte mix that I've started reaching for daily and with clean ingredients and nothing artificial, it's become easy to stay hydrated. Find it on Amazon or save 20% at curehydration.com with code drink. Okay. So the reason that this is a little eerie for me is a couple of weeks ago, I posted asking people, like, what do you think? So if 500 is going to be and I did have different plans, I ended up reading through people and stuff and I was like, oh, that's not my idea, I should do that, I should do that. And someone suggested the obvious of, like, you can't not do a Zach Beagan's episode. And so I was like, okay, fine, I'll do that. And I ended up finding, I was just on looking at Ghost of Ender's Upsodes. I ended up finding one called Pioneer Saloon, now hang on. I was going to do that and I was doing my notes. And I was like, this just doesn't feel like I'm like something I'm supposed to be doing not to be like, oh, woo, woo, but I was like, this isn't spark, it's not, it's not giving me. I don't feel the sparkle. Just feel aligned right now for this right now, right now, right now, maybe one day but not right now. And so I was like, man, I'm just going to like toss these notes. I had been doing these notes for a while and I was like, I'm just going to scrap them and start over. And I googled like, funniest Zach Beagan's moments or whatever. And Reddit, of course, led me to what I am going to cover. And the reason that it's synchronized, sink, whatever, that word is because the Pioneer Saloon is like oddly tied to this episode and gets an insane amount of mentions in this episode. Is that not so weird? So it like brought you back to that. So next week I will be covering the Pioneer Saloon on principle. Wow. Wow. So it was like, you got to actually do this, but yeah, we can hold for a week. Oh, I love that. Thank God the universe was like, don't scrap the notes because you're just going to cover them a week. I was going to say you did say you tossed the notes. I don't know what that means on the modern parlance. It means like press the X. I pressed the right. And it said we auto save this. Don't worry. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Good, good, good. So next week will be the Pioneer Saloon. This week, though, is the Wolf Creek Inn. What's that? Well, it's in Wolf Creek, Oregon. Don't you know? Don't you know? Not that Oregon is a place that says that. But this is Oregon's, this is at the very least, it's official that it's Oregon's oldest continuously running in. However, Zach said it's the oldest in the whole Pacific Northwest. He would fucking know. He would say that. Because I always say it is on the National Register of Historical Places. And it was originally called the Wolf Creek Tavern, not an Inn, but fun fact, the name Wolf isn't it at all because this area used to be covered with wolves. And when they opened as a tavern, I don't know why they switched from Inn to Tavern. It was all, it still feeds people, still lodges people, did back then as well. Simantics. Simantics. So when people were staying overnight there, there were so many wolves in the area that this building that did not have indoor plumbing, and like there was an outhouse that you could use, so many wolves that they were like, don't even use the outhouse. They would just give them like chamber pots. Just don't even risk it. They're like going to the outhouse will kill you actually, because there's so many wolves at night. Oh my God. What? And I don't know if it's like if before this building was here, this place was covered in wolves, but I think it's because the tavern opened, and this was like the only place that was serving a hot. Right. There's food scraps and like animals. Yeah, exactly. And people. It's like opening a restaurant on a campsite, and now there's bears everywhere. There's trash and like, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. So anyway, fun fact on the name. That's why it's called. We'll go ants and they're like, we'll get wolves. I'm like, oh, there will be blood. There will be wolves. Uh-oh. I have Bistic too. We'll be ants. That's enough for me. I said it was the oldest continuously run in in at least Oregon, and it started in 1883. Still running. Wow. Next time, Bart, does this say zero, zero, five to you? Nope. Okay. Because it's flipped on my head that I'm like, am I a full fucking idiot? I promise you I would have made some very hilarious, hilarious, slash rude commentary if it's at 05. Perfect. Because I really just thought for a second what an idiot. Okay. Mm-hmm. So 1883, uh, built by Henry Smith, and it's a stop for travelers along the way. And by the way, I mean the Applegate Trail, um, not the Oregon Trail. We're not the or-shocking, right? Mm-hmm. We're in Oregon. I think that's why. Because the Oregon Trail was supposed to get you there. Maybe that Kate, no, that would have come before the Oregon Trail. The Oregon Trail? Definitely existed by then, right? Well, don't ask me that. Someone's going to yell at me. Maybe they're the same thing. I mean, the flip, the floppy disk came out in 1992, so must have been around then. That's interesting. Why are you two really? No, I made that up. Okay. I have no idea. Also, the video came out in 1971, so I'm like, fucking so wrong. Um, yeah, let's see. That was in the year. Yeah. I'm pretty close. Not 1830s. Okay. So yeah, it's definitely existed, so. Okay. All right. I guess there isn't just one trail per state. Like I guess I'm just like being silly, but. I know, but I sort of thought it was a tongue-in-cheek type joke, like, oh, not the Oregon Trail. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, so the travelers along Applegate Trail, they would, uh, apparently it was a 16-day trek, uh, to get on this trail, to get from San Francisco to Portland. Okay. And the Wolf Creek Inn was like the only stop in between them. No wonder it was Wolves, Wolves and like, but also what a fucking business plan of like, well, if you want food and a guy with it, but how is nobody else just popping up right next door? I guess nobody just, I think maybe it was just like early, like there was just, like, people hadn't gotten there yet. A given. Yeah. I have that one spot. But so originally it was called the six-bit house because Henry Smith originally charged people 75 cents or six bits. Oh, okay, and 75 cents and was in the 1880s So I actually did not do them at this time. Sorry to know what that means, but Fun fact for cowboys who came in who I saw cowboys and had to keep this in for you. Yeah Even though it was 75 cents to stay there for the night if there were some like just really tired cowboys Who are passing through and they're like I just need to sleep. I don't need like a full room or a shower or a food I just want to sleep here He would actually just charge them 10 cents However, they had to go sleep basically standing up in the attic rafters. Whoa I've heard about like sleeping out with your horse, but I've not heard of sleeping up right in an attic rafter like fucking nose for a two Well, do you know where the phrase hangover comes from? No It's when people were drunk and they the cheapest option for them to find a place to sleep was there was literally just like They would just hang themselves over a pole Well, they were drunk and we sleep it off. They would just throw their body over a hole over a pole and just pardon me What they'd hang over it and how if I never learned this on this and on this of all podcasts, too We've never discussed this before. It's amazing. I know I think it was like like one cent or two cents for the pole Because otherwise you had to like sit in like the dirty gross like the ground where there's like horse poop everywhere Well, so you get a nice stick to lean on or pull your ribs heart later. Yeah, but at least you're clean Ish ish, but it was like the cheapest option besides Tell you how I'm like on your shoes over that bar and then Man, that's that's while I had never I've never heard that before him Fantastic so These these guys for ten cents like it be inside, but they had to be in the rafters And I don't know if there was a pole for them to hang over a bar But you've got to climb into the roof rafters. What the fuck kind of nonsense But you have to be at the top story and it got a little bat Here's a situation they were in the attic rafters, but that did not mean that the attic had a floor So so you're a fucking bat So what they would do I think because it sounds to me that there were either just some loose boards everywhere kind of above like the The ceiling like above the ceiling of the top floor or it sounds like there was no No floor at all, and it was just ledges like just edges around the building So just like maybe some beams or something maybe yeah So their option was to pretty much just lean against the wall and hope they didn't fall forward and so One of the things they would do is they would dig the spurs of their boots Into the wood and hope it kind of held them while they leaned back on the wall Wow and slept and you just hope you don't fucking fall but to this day You can still see the marks from people digging their spurs into the wood to to hold them up Wow, that's Up into this moment. I was always like what the fuck is a spur even for and I did not think that but now I have a reason Oh, well, that's hard to it's it's for to spur your horse on but yes Also like us for whoa, okay, so I do the hangover thing and much today Yeah, they're further back at your boots to get the horse to oh Little knives to stab your friends. Yeah, of course Yeah Anyway, that is a people can still see the spur marks. That's really cool if you happen to climb into the attic rafters Of a hundred-year-old concert house. I happen to will So when it first opened like I said this was one of the only stops between San Francisco and Portland Which was a 16-day hike at the time later Henry Smith who built this place he Expanded it from being the six-bit house. He either Expanded the building that was already there or he reopened it across the street But now was calling it a first-class host hell And there were 16 rooms for people. There were two parlors one for a man one for women They had a dining room and by the 1930s this was like the popular spot to be so the first like 50 years was just to like give you a place to stay now By the 1930s. Literally that's it. Yeah people are retreating there because it's surrounded by woods and a river and it's very nature Pro-nature So but they're not still in the ceiling right? I Don't think so anymore. I can imagine if you're like we have a first-class hotel now go sleep in the ceiling. Did you bring your spurs? Well, you know what funny way into the hardwood. I didn't even mention this part earlier though Like one of the other things that would happen if you fell like you weren't just falling Like you were falling into people's guest rooms like you're imagining a guest. So you don't okay But you better get a discount for being down there too because like that's Imagine you actually pay the full price to have a guest room and now you have to wonder like is someone gonna just fall in? I would not be paying full price. I mean, I probably would be but like man. That's not fair Wow, we're got a good milkshake and be um, ooh Man, I don't get them like that like I used to okay, so John Wayne used to go here Robert Redford used to go here Mary Pickford Sinclair Lewis Orson Wells president Rutherford B. Hayes who I always thought had the best name Mm-hmm And then most importantly Clark Gabel and his second wife Carol Lombard. Oh so this Blue my mind when I first saw that note because they are also main characters in the story of the Pioneer Saloon and So I was like what are they and I had I had yet to realize that there was gonna be overlap because I hadn't watched ghost adventures yet So I didn't know that there was what the fuck is going on just doing these notes and the Pioneer Saloon is like not an organ I don't think it's in It's in it's in Vegas or it's in Nevada what and this is an organ and I remember seeing that I'm going What are the odds two sets of notes tonight and they're both talking about Clark Abel and Carol Lombard Strange it was a very weird. I was like anyway. I keep it moving and then it just kept happening I'm like what the fuck's going on? Yeah, they synchronicity that means you're on the right track Well, I hope so so I don't know how these notes are by the end. They're new you're nailing it keep in mind those two I'm gonna bring them up later another big name here was an author named Jack London. Oh, yeah, I know about it, okay Perfect, so he used to he's summered here for a year while he wrote his book called Valley of the Moon and I'm going to say all the names of the celebrities that I that I just mentioned I'm going to say those were a legit because I saw on one plaque that apparently one of the owners was trying to draw on more guests and Maybe exaggerated the amount of people that have come to this it so it was like Somebody's agent and he's like actually it was and rock the floor he hates was here. Yeah The president Yeah, you could call him that yeah So I will say Clark Gable at in his second wife and Jacqueline and we're definitely here those are for sure Another person that was said to frequent the in and the 1860s was a stage coach driver that I guess was popular then for His reputation, but then got even more popular in his death because this guy's name was Charlie Stage coach driver 1860s He was known to be a real tough guy and there's two quotes about him that I enjoyed They said quote Charlie drove his team hard spat his tobacco juice harder and cussed like Samuel Clements Oh, and then the other quote is he only missed work after payday when he was too hungover to drive Because he was hungover literal So already he was a rough and tumble he had he was well known in the area I guess but when he died This gets tricky folks the mortician learned that Charlie was biologically female Whoops it azy. I don't know if that was something Charlie wanted anybody to know and now over a hundred years later I'm fucking talking about it publicly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So we don't know and then that nope there was no notes about this is just my own caveat here We don't know if Charlie was trans we don't know if Charlie was in disguise just to keep themselves safe in an 1860s world not made for women The official story that I was seeing in like multiple sources was that she Yikes was an orphan named Charlotte so now we're just dead naming or two. Sorry everybody Who ran away to be a stage coach driver? It's like well, that's really vague and how would any of us know that and also that like ran away Yeah, that just is like the euphemism for nobody knows probably something more complex and nuance happened But we're just gonna say ran away. It's easier. Yeah, like and like how would we know that because we're only finding out any of this after Charlie's dead exactly Yeah, so we're just piecing things together. We know nothing about so While passing as male This is like this is meant to be a fun fact, but I want to give another caveat While passing as male Charlie was able to register to vote in the 1860s and voted for Ulysses S grant fun fact and Sources go on to say this could possibly make Charlie the first woman to vote. It's like oh Like first of all no because I'm sure there have been plenty of times that that has happened So let's not even go there. It's a little weird of a thing to be like let's hard-bought this again when it's like not a verifiable thing that you can Yeah, no, it's like just because now you're saying that Charlie's a girl, but in a cool way You're still maybe outing someone who clearly didn't want to be known as anything other than Charlie It's like why we keep talking about that, you know like why not you and I I mean like why is that why does that keep meaning having to be something? thing for. Yeah. And also like I guarantee you in the 1860s, Charlie was, let's assume, let's assume it was a gender identity thing. Charlie was not the first trans person. 1860 was not the year the trans men started existing. So certainly. I'm pretty sure that there were others quote in disguise or passing as male who also registered. This is just one of the ones that you were able to find, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that like had some sort of story to it that you could kind of create a narrative around. Yeah. Exactly. So a lot of people like to say like, oh, we're haunted. For thank God, no one's saying like, we're haunted by one of them trans genders. Yeah. But, you know, they're haunted by a stage coach who was actually a girl crazy. So that's where we stand. And also a lot of sources were also saying that she had one eye. He had one eye. So I don't even know what that means. They kept saying one eyed stage coach. And I'm like, is that a? Is that a? Right. What? It's all very odd. I have like no, yeah, I have no sort of content, like no, no contextual like I bring nothing to the table to illuminate any of this. I literally brought something to the table and still feel like I brought nothing. I mean, maybe I could help with nothing. I've got nothing. Just like if we were just going to like make this the way Charlie maybe wanted it to be made, Charlie was a stage coach driver the end. The end. The end. And yes, he also voted for Grant. Sick. Oh, sick. I guess tight. So I just wanted to mention that because Charlie gets mentioned later as a ghost. Got it. Got it. Got it. And like Charlie is such a nice like, especially nowadays, like gender neutral name. Like that's that's true. Love that. Well, yeah. Also, Charlie could have just been like a mask lesbian and like everyone's not just pointing fingers. You know, like, I could have been anything or just like intersex or there could have literally been just like, or could have just been an auto system. Wait till you see though, what my topic is because it could have just been a fucking autopsy mistake. I'm just going to say that you never know. Well, I hope Charlie wherever you are, I hope you're having a good time. I hope you're I hope you're just laughing up. Yeah, right. I hope you're laughing at all this and not feeling like what is going on? Charlie's like, I'll never know. Rest my legacy. Right. I know it keeps happening. These billbozos. So in 1925, more people start coming through because the Pacificos highway was built out. And so that actually led to more people coming so that led to even more improvements to the end to keep it running. Fun fact, one of the improvements was a signout front that still exists today. So it's as of this year, it's over 100 years old. That sign alone, even though the building is several more decades older than that. 50 years later, the building needed very expensive renovations. So literally the state of Oregon bought the in and started redoing it. And today, the end still offers lodging and food, including it's mainly comfort food, but they have a Jack London scramble. Oh, ooh, la, la. In case you're interested in that. And the rooms now have private bathrooms. Thank God, it is pet friendly. But very similar to way, I don't remember what it was called, but it was the one in Tucson, Arizona, we stayed at where like they intentionally have kept it looking as it did when it was opened. So it's yeah, the you know what I'm talking about see. Start to the sea. Start to the sea. No, no, I always say that and it usually means there's a sea in the word I've learned when I say that. It usually means there's a sea in the word, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's on my head. Why am I not remembering it doesn't? I don't know, but there's a there's a hotel. Congress. Congress. Congress. Congress. Congress. Hotel. Hotel. Sea was right. Okay. Good for me. But basically this building looks as it did in the late 1800s, early 1900s. So it's very small. There's no like electronics in there. It's meant for you to essentially be experiencing living history while you're staying there. And some of the rooms have now been discontinued for reservations because they wanted to like fully deck it out to look almost like a museum as it did at that time. Wow. So you want to like see them or is it like you just can't stay in them? I think you can I think you can go in and like stand there and like see. It looks around. Oh, that's cool. But can't stay there. Yeah. And one of them is the room that Jack London would summer in. Got it. The last thing I'll say before I get to the ghost is that October is their biggest month. Obviously they know that they're incredibly haunted. They go full out with the decorations. They have guided spooky lantern tours. They have a kid-friendly haunted house attraction. And they of course have ghosts. So let's talk about that. So thank you for bearing with me through all of that. No, I love it. Okay. So Jack London is one of their ghosts. He's heard talking in his room, making noises, shuffling around in there. He's also seen standing in his old room. And people often feel that someone is staring at them from that room, whether they're passing by or whatever that is. They just feel like there's an energy from it. And they hear odd noises in there. So that's Jack's room. Clarke Abel's room. People see a woman in there. They hear her singing. A lot of people, it's like the the theories are endless with her. She could be a staff member or a guest or related to one of the owners or one of Clarke Abel's mistresses because apparently he was just a big old cheater. No. So it could have been anything. People also see this woman walking around on the main floor and apparently she's very active during investigations. Some of these fuck ass sources were like, obviously, that's Charlie. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure Charlie who spent their entire life passing and/or identifying as male is not the point of getting them doing government, like voting and stuff without a question. Yeah. So, like, clearly, like, to register to vote, don't you have to say what you're, well, I guess did you have to back then? If woman couldn't also vote, it's just assumed. I mean, I think you could. I don't know. I think it was, let's say, a little more lax. You could kind of fudge your way through. I think you could have just had a gruff voicing on, look at me. Do I look like I need to tell you something like that? Let me put me down for Ulysses. Big UG. You don't need that for the big U. Okay, so that's the woman who I guarantee you is not Charlie. Right. Right. Others have seen an older man. They say he's an older gentleman, which is very nice. Love a gentleman as a ghost. He apparently is walking through the halls. Sometimes he accidentally brushes past people, but people will feel him brush past them. Doesn't feel very gentlemanly to me. That's true. Slow down. Feels a little bit like, can you take some space, not man spread? Actually, you're pissing me off. Actually, this is my fate. Who called you a gentleman, another man? Okay, move on. Was it you? There's also apparently, this needs a lot more coverage, and yet nobody had anything to say about it. There's a humanoid vampire creature in the woods outside. Good. As you would have, I hope. Good, check. Next, fangs and blood all around its mouth. Love that. And one theory is that other spirits here are protecting the property from this creature from getting in, hence the, that plus the fangs and the blood makes it like a vampire like it can't come in. Imagine dying and being like, wow, what a hard life I lived and now I get to experience peace. And it's like me and my sharp teeth finally get to sleep. No, not that guy. Like the people in the hotel who die and are like, oh, finally a piece. And then the other goes to like, actually, you have to stay here and join our army defending this property from that fucking werewolf. Wait a minute. I didn't sign up for this. That's not fair that they have to fucking protect the property from a fucking werewolf. Truly, if someone told me I'm dead. And five minutes later, someone says, Oh, great. We needed another person on our team. Now you're going to do endless unpaid physical labor. Yeah. At the risk of your death. Oh, wait, you're a ghost. So you're just going to perpetually be. Exactly. For the rest of your existence. No, I'm not putting on that name tag. Fuck you. I'm actually going to go hang out with the fucking bloody fang man outside. And wait, yeah, he seems like I have. He gives me freedom. He's outside. Bye. He's spending the rest of his eternal torment out in nature. I think a minute later, you hear. Never mind. Help. And then they're like told we don't tell them. Well, so this vampire guy, they it gets worse because and by worse, I mean, just like how Charlie had had a bad ending here. So some people say like, oh, the spirits are protecting the house from keeping that guy from getting in. Other people say that he actually can get in. Other people say, Oh, it's not a vampire at all. It's a person with like mental health issues who just wants to look scary so everyone will leave him alone. So he covers his face with blood and lives in the woods. Oh, huh? Yeah. Who the fucking asked you? Who wrote that? Who wrote that? That and delete it. Who wrote it? And then can you unwrite it real quick? Can you write? I don't want to see that anymore? Because like, there's no evidence of that. Are you just throwing out things here? Yeah. Yes. The answer is yes. So someone suffering and now we're just also going to like make fun of the fact that they're okay, whatever. And then there's another rumor separately that says that this vampire beast is just a spirit. However, not threatening at all. So it either goes from scary monster to not scary ghost to just a person to anyway is in general. Is there any theory that this is not a real entity at all? I mean, that's my theory. Oh, okay. Okay. So it's not like I'm like, oh, we've all seen this person or whatever. It's like someone who has a mental illness. It's just like, oh, it's a legend more. - Certainly, that's what makes it more frustrating that I'm like, we didn't have to bring people into this at all. - Oh, okay, so there's not actually, okay. Then, yeah, that's a cool, cool awesome, got it. - I'm assuming people have thought they've seen something, but I don't know why, I don't know. - I've fallen. - Again, this is another-- - But I mean, that sounds like the fucking crops, or any of these stories were whatever, where it's like, oh, the men in the woods who escaped from the insane asylum, you know, this is not that classic trope, so I'm not totally surprised. - I'm with you, because I'm like, I mean, people are gonna make up stuff, but I'm just like, can we just stick to like the ghosts or something like that? - Of course, and that would be ridiculous. - Well, in general, people hear voices footsteps, they feel a lot of cold spots, there's a lot of flickering lights, doors open and closed, people see shadow figures, people feel themselves getting watched, people experience crazy prickling skin feelings. - Nice. - People wake up to odd, vivid dreams, people will smell perfumes in some areas, they'll smell really bad smells in other areas, they'll hear the piano playing itself downstairs, they'll hear the doors slam on their own, people hear someone shuffling through their room in the middle of the night, and then for the rest of the night, I feel like someone is watching them from the corner of the room, horrifying. People will hear, I hate when I bet someone has had both those things happen, where you wake up from a bad dream, and then you hear shuffling, and then you just feel someone staring at you. - Because you're like, oh, few, it was a dream, and then, yeah, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Or maybe, or maybe. - People also hear kids playing with a ball in empty rooms. People will find objects missing, and then reappearing in new places, mediums have come through, that's the spirits are active, and paranormal investigators have gotten EVPs of people singing, chatter, laughter, and then phrases like, good morning, conversation, and don't leave. - That's my cue to go. - Actually, it's up to date, and I'll go start the car now. - Other EVPs seem to be even more directly intelligent, including when a paranormal investigator asked, "Am I at the Wolf Creek Inn?" And the EVP right away said, "Yes, you are." - Wow, that I love when I like a media EVP, yeah. - I love them. Furniture will rearrange itself when you leave the room, which is giving poltergeist. - Totally. - Items will fly off the shelves onto the ground, especially this one baking pan in the kitchen, that I guess just flies with the kitchen all the time. - Fuck this baking pan. - Yeah, I feel like it's just the condensed energy of someone who burnt themselves on the pan. - Oh, and it flings. - Yeah. - That's so interesting. I know you just kind of said it, but that's such an interesting point. That panic override of your reptilian brain just toss the pan. I feel like if you totally translate to the afterlife. If you ever saw the baking pan flying, I guarantee you there'd be an EVP of someone screaming, like, "Mother fucker." - I'm 100% clanging like everyone jumping, like there would have been a whole commotion. You're right. Oh, I love that theory. Good one. - Thank you. - I still got it. - We solved it. - People feel something touching them, brushing up against them, like I mentioned earlier. And the worst one confirmed by the owner of the building is that at night people say that when they're in bed, they feel someone playing with their toes. So I'm just gonna step aside now and throw up. - I'm gonna step aside and put big socks on. And then big shoes on. And then I'm gonna run into my car and-- - Steal toad boots, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - If you want a wild time, apparently room eight is the most haunted. And the owner, his name's Andrew, he felt something when he was in that room, literally jump on top of him. And he like started like trying to fight it, which is something. - Oh, I mean, what else are you gonna do? - I mean, yeah, I would do this thing. - It's funny 'cause I wasn't there. It's funny 'cause it wasn't me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But like, if someone jumped on me in the middle of the night in a haunted ass room-- - But even if it's not in a haunted ass room, in any ass room, if a person jumped on me in the middle of the night, what the fuck? - Hank, are you listening? - Yeah, I'm in the middle of the night. - He's not a person. Shortly after this happened to him, a medium came to the inn and said, something happened to you in room eight. - Well, okay. You don't need to like air my dirty laundry. - And honestly, there's only like nine rooms there, so I guess she could have just luck of a draw picked the right one. - I don't know. She seemed to really be like something happened to you there. And he was like, I feel like that's pretty on the nose. - It'd be funny if she was like, it was me. I jumped on you. - Oh yeah, did you remember when we hung out the other day in room eight? - Do I look familiar? - Remember when you punched me? - I deserve that. - Do you see this black guy? - My bad, I thought it would be a fun prank. - So he's also, this is Andrew Steele. He's heard people in the hallway when totally alone in the building. One time in the kitchen, he saw something that he described as quote, a scene straight out of Ghostbusters. This is the rest of the quote. He saw lids popping off of containers, sailing across the room and spatulas moving by themselves. - Oh, shit, someone's cooking up a storm. (laughing) - Yeah, wow. When asked about like if guests have experiences here, he is quoted saying, I wouldn't say everyone, but just about everyone. - Wow. - And then he said if you're there long enough, something is just bound to happen. - I love a place like that where it's like, oh, it's just inevitable. - Keep in mind, most reports, and I've told you this already, but keep in mind that most reports so far have said that although this place is incredibly active, nothing here is malicious or dangerous. - Wow. - Enter Zach Baggins team. - Oh, here we go. - So immediately, like one of the first sentences out of his episode on the Wolf Creek Inn. Zach Baggins says, of course immediately because he heard vampire beast and glommed on. - Yep. - He talks about the vampire beast. He says, it influences people to be extremely violent, follows people back to their room and attacks them. - That seems correct. That seems like information he got straight from the source, which is his own imagination. - Like, and he's saying this about the quote beast that is staying away from everyone. - Like, is not allowed at the property and is like not invited inside, so I don't know. - He's just on a hammock by the river and it's like, God, people just love to hate me, don't they? - Man, it must be like, man, he, yeah. - Wow. - So in the same conversation, Zach seems then claims that they've done research on the woods and this vampire beast and they found info. - Okay, oh. - They found info on, say it with me, multiple murders and body parts in the woods. - I thought you could say on Reddit and then I was just like, they found information on Reddit. But so you're saying they found information on multiple allegedly, multiple body parts and body parts in the woods. - So they're saying this obviously must, the vampire is responsible for this. - Okay, so I like the use of multiple, that's good. - Yeah, he said that. - Yeah, I know, that feels correct from him. - And then by the way, it's never discussed again and certainly not by anyone he interviewed, which means you know he asked them about it and none of them were willing to play his little games. - Never, usually never. - I decided I was like, oh, well if you were able to find that information, I'm certainly gonna go look it up. So what I found was not multiple murders and body parts in the woods by the way. - What? - I found the name Ivan Malat, who was the backpacker murderer. I don't know if you've heard of him. - Oh, yes, I've covered him. - Yes, Ivan Malat. - Yes, a long time ago. - So that's a dark one I think. - So the reason that he came out, or well he didn't come out, the reason he got brought up is because he killed people in woods in Australia and his murders inspired a horror movie called Wolf Creek and they happen to be at the Wolf Creek Inn. - Oh. - So I'm wondering if Zach's team just-- - Oh my God, Em, yeah. - Like associated, like conflated all that together with murderers associated with Wolf Creek and there's a movie, a horror movie called Wolf Creek where people die. - It was inspired by a real murderer. - No doubt, no doubt. They were like, see dead bodies, oh my God. Okay, so by the way, it was episode 241, time travel art and cubed wombat poop, where we're hiding flasks in Nancy Reagan's memoir. - Oh, I love when we did that. - Yeah, I love doing that. In terms of Christmas it grew some time. Ivan Malat in the backpack murders, yeah. - Wow. - You know, 241 was almost exactly halfway from this episode. - Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. - So I'm guessing that's what happened with the Ghost of Ventures research team. - I mean, using a bare amount of media literacy, I could kind of agree just from afar. I think you made a very, very astute assessment of the situation and-- - Thank you. - I don't have any counter argument. - Well, good to know. So then after talking about all this, they then, two for two with Zach Begins, he then talks about how, when the inn was built, an indigenous person was hanged on the property. So, you could just use your imagination for what came from that or what they were implying. - What they were implying with that. - Maybe what visual they used to, sometimes they do a nice cutscene to reenact, which is always nice. - You're on it. - Yeah. - You're on a Christine. So luckily they never talk about that again, but it's mentioned, so there you go. They do interviews with the staff now and one heard a, one woman who worked there, or she was the daughter of the owners, she heard a little girl say, hi, really enthusiastically behind her when she was alone in a room. - Well, she heard the little girl go, hi. She even shows a picture of this little girl, they think they got on camera. - Oh, cool. - That's all right. It's not bad, but it's not. like it doesn't blow my mind here, it could be, but to hear the voice and then get something that's sort of you're, you're, I confused you. They, um, oh, oh, sorry, I just put the two things together because we're talking about the corona. It wasn't the same instant. It wasn't at the same moment. No, but they okay, okay, okay. If she separately, she separately found, had, got a picture of this girl that she had heard say hi to her. So, um, which is my fault? I said that in a way. No, but still, but that's the same person, right? Like the same person. Same person. But that's so cool. Like, oh, she heard her and then like got visual, sort of visual evidence. I don't know. You're a homie. Um, yes, yes. I mean, that's what I thought you meant. Yeah. Well, so what I want you to pay most attention to coming up is the fact that this little girl said hi to her in a very, very enthusiastic way. Like the girl, like the interview we, uh, she, you know, replicates it and it sounds like a little girl very excited. This is, I just want to say, like, this reminds me of when I heard a little girl in my house and it was like, I know exactly the tone because it was like daddy and it was like so happy. Yes. And it was like, yeah. It's a real shame. You brought that memory into this because now I have to ruin it for you. Zach's response to the enthusiasm of this girl. This is a quote. I wrote it down. Here we go. Here we go. That's what a little girl would want to do. A little girl would want you to be excited. A little girl would want you to open your arms up and come play with the little girl and offer her some candy. Hello. Zachary, go to prison right now. Okay. So ring, ring. Dispatch. Yeah. Remember how I told you someday I'd be calling you about this. It's go time. Yeah. Code red. So okay. Code. Code Ed Hardy. You know what it means. Yeah. Yeah. Operation Ed Hardy. Operation Ed Hardy is in full. Full. See my head mode. So here's the thing. I am going to have to defend Zach. I think the production gave him a really awkward instruction to like you have to segue into this other interview you've heard about. Like that's what you want me to think. Yeah. Well, because like obviously the editors should have put scenes differently or they should have at least helped Zach out with the the segue, the sagu that he was trying to do here. I mean, maybe they did and he said actually I have a better way, which sometimes I do think I do think that does happen. Basically what was what was trying to happen was that the next scene was going to be him interviewing another person who hadn't experienced with this little girl and candy. So it but the way that it got frozen when you first hear that you go, Zach, what are you talking about? I'm calling the police real quick. But he clearly was trying to like the intention and dance of how they would transition into the other the next interview. God. It's like an awkward intro. Duction to the next. He was like in real time trying to foresee the editing and and was like, we will be inserting that candy interview after this one. So let me try to I mean, remember the season where he went to the candy thing and he got so fucking weird like he has a weird thing. He talked about his butt. And he talked about how much like how little sugar he's like, he clearly has a fixation about candy. So I think that might be part of it. Well, hold on to your butt because what's about to happen is this interview about candy. Good. And remember the only way I stumbled upon this topic was because Reddit said I said what's the what are some funny Zach moments and everyone said you have to go watch this episode because the interview he does about candy. I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't believe this is happening right now. Okay, go ahead. So he is here's the thing clearly him and this man who happens to be the husband of the last girl we were just talking about who saw the girl who said hi. They're married in real life. This guy has clearly been speaking to Zach for a while and all of that got edited out because of course, Zach's first question immediately. No introduction to anything that we know about this man. Zach immediately says the phrase, how many jolly ranchers were you taken down a day? So like there's the seamless transitions the leading into things was not on on the docket for this episode. What in the what in the god you you just hear him say let me finish that last quote for you everybody. He says yeah, make it seamless for us. I'm make it seamless how he did this beautifully. So I'll transition seamless. I'm going to do both both of his quotes and I want you to know that very little happened in between great. How many jolly ranchers were you taken down a day? I mean, really, if I didn't know better, I would think this was a Chris Hansen excerpt like it is challenging at best. I think like there's maybe a lead in sentence, one lead in sense in between those two sentences where it's like because your husband had a thing with candy happen to him, right? And then we go rain to this. So how many jolly ranchers for a while for him. There's no way his first straight out the pack question was how many jolly ranchers were he taking down a day? jolly ranchers hadn't even been mentioned yet in this interview. So like clearly this had been discussed. Unless they did some insane research a la. Let's see that fictional movie that sounds a little bit like the place we're at and then like conflate the two. You know, maybe they did some research and found out that jolly ranchers were invented nearby. I don't know. Well, the reason that they were talking about jolly ranchers is because I guess this guy has a jolly rancher problem, which had clearly been addressed to him before this conversation for him to even ask the question. Okay, but so and maybe he like benefit of the doubt here for Zachary. I don't do this often, but maybe this guy was like the first thing I got to tell you is I love a jolly rancher. Like maybe he's like before we get to things about me. My name is Ted and I fucking love a jolly rancher. And I fuck with jolly ranchers day in day out. End of interview. Maybe that was it because Zach says how many were you taken down, which is a weird way to put it. A weird way. And the guy I'm not kidding. Kind of depends on Zach's side here. The guy says easily over a hundred a day. One right after the other. One right after the other is was this man's phrasing when asked the jolly rancher question. The amount of like gum gums in those candies and things that are just going to kind of line you up on the inside. I don't forget that. I'm thinking about like how jagged like glass are your teeth. Yeah. I guess you're not sucking on a hundred a day. Those are going to pull your teeth out. You're biting those are going to rip your throat because those stick into those molars. Oh, we're eating them like M&Ms or something like you're not like if I were to suck like it's it's very much like Mr. Owl. How many licks does it take? Like if I were to start my day, put a jolly rancher my mouth and consecutively just suck on them. I certainly wouldn't get through a hundred. You're gnashing at him. You're either gnashing at him. Well, he said one after the other. I was going to say or five at a time, but you said one after the other. So he's either swallowing them whole sickening chewing them down sickening. Now keep in mind, as you mentioned earlier, so love that you did this. You fucking mentioned his weird aversion to sugar. Zach's a version to sugar. And now a man is telling him that he's having easily a hundred jolly ranchers a day. He's probably like spitting out about this information. He probably short-circuited a little bit. His pupils dilated. I wish you could see that man was bewildered. I mean the mouth of like where he was like I didn't know you're allowed to do that. You know, very next sentence out of his mouth. 100 pieces equals 1.3 pounds of jolly ranchers per day. Don't okay. First of all, thank you. Fucking like Google AI. What do you want? That's not helpful to anybody. I mean, truly, you're right. I think about like the sugar of 1.3 pounds of jolly ranchers sugar in your stomach just has to do something to you. I mean, it is effective when they show the amount of sugar on a TV ad or whatever to me. I'm always like, whoa. So maybe they could have done that. And you know, the jolly ranchers. I'm not trying to shame this guy for like. No shame about eating jolly riches. I've eaten a hundred of a lot more dangerous things in my life. I know it sounds like we're being shamey. I'm trying to make more fun of the behavior, the response of Zach Promise. But I will say I'm sure like Zach who is like all, you know, beef caked out because he's so he's so like intense about his body. He is for sure thinking like if it's 1.3 pounds of sugar in just and jolly ranchers. And you know this guy because you know what he did. He put it into his my fitness palette that you a hundred bucks to see. Well, I'm saying like there's no way that jolly ranchers are the only sugar that man's eating every day because like without even thinking about it, everyone's eating more sugar than that. So he's definitely calculating. I don't know if he has time to eat anything else. That man loved jolly ranchers. And you know what? I hope the jolly rancher reaches out to him and goes, we could use a little facelift on our brand. You want to be in on that? Good for-- I hope something good comes out of it for me. - You know, I do too, because don't know shame in that game. You know, just you do you. It's sort of my fucking business. It's also not exactly where he's fucking business. - Well, I'm sure that those fat, we've really derailed here, but I will say the Jolly Rancher thing, like you should have seen his face. He looked floored. - I gotta watch it. - I gotta. - And then he basically said like, well, since you have a Jolly Rancher problem, he then said, "Do you think that eating that many Jolly Ranchers a day could give you delusions about the ghosts that you claim you've seen?" - Oh, so now he's diagnosing him. - So the whole reason the Jolly Ranchers even came up was for him to have some little bit about like, do you think you're like having like sugar hallucinations? - Right, 'cause that is what happens at, as he knows so well, I'm sure. - I literally, anyway, I, I hope, and that man, you know what, he respawn, he had decorum to him, that guy, 'cause he really could have fed into that bullshit and he was just answering the questions point blank. He was like, "No." - He's like, "I believe I'm authentic self, fuckhead." - He's like, "I can fucking sue me. I like a Jolly Rancher and I see a ghost every now and then what do you want?" - So by this point, he's, we're now getting to the ghost and he's saying like, "Oh yeah, well I saw all my Jolly Ranchers in the jar like all moving around as if like a little kid's hand was sifting through them." That's what he saw. You know, the thing that's obviously a delusional situation according to Zack Sugar calculator. - Yeah. - Well, so then the guy jokes, he's like, you know, I did not like that that little girl was trying to take candy out of my jar. I don't even let my kids share my candy with me. And Zack ends this bit by going, "I'm sure this little girl's spirit is just as angry at Jeff for not sharing his Jolly ranchers as his own children are." - What? - Okay. - Can you leave this man alone? Can you give it a fucking rest? Why are you making these weird kids? - Like we get it, you don't like sugar. Like I'm more sugar and more sugar than I am. Leave me alone. - People, you know, just like, leave everybody alone. - Okay, so anyway, I swear we're almost done, but the Jolly Ranch, apparently the Jolly Rancher scene was the reason people suggest this episode. - That's hilarious. - Like ridiculous things that's happening. - How many Jolly Ranchers are you putting down a day? - And honestly, I don't know my own answer because I've never thought I've had enough Jolly Ranchers, but I've also just never-- - I have. - Really? I've never been around Jolly Ranchers long enough to find my limit. - I eat one and I'm like a green apple one will last me like an hour. I'm like, that's a lot. - Well, that's what I'm saying 'cause I don't bite them. I suck on it. - No, me too. - That's why I'm done with that first one. I've already left the premises and don't have an option to take more. - I'm just thinking like, even if I take a few, I'm like eating one, you know, it's like, it's a lot. I mean, again, no shame because clearly, this is working for this guy. But I like that you said you are a green fan 'cause that's also my flavor. - Oh, I love it, and that is a sour one, so maybe that would be different. Maybe he eats like the purples that are like sweeter. - Wait, you're sweet. - I love the purples too, but green is the go too. - Green's my go too, and I'll take a blue, but other than that, I don't want them. - No, me neither. - So Zach goes, oh, so this is now we're getting into the last few bits here. So we're done with that interview. Now Zach is interviewing the owners, and they take him down this really dark back hallway. And as they're saying the phrase, we just don't like to go in here. Zach responds with, can you go in there? (laughing) - Typical. - He's like, good, that I have the perfect question for you. And not just go in there, but go in there, pitch black. So you can't see anything. - Sure. - So he goes in there with one of them, they then come out, he goes in now with the husband of the two. And as soon as the guy, he's like having the guy walk all the way to the back of the hallway. Like, go as far back as you can in the pitch black. And as the guy is saying, like, our staff won't even go over here, like it really freaks them out. As he's saying that mid sentence, Zach just fucking leaves and goes and walks away and just leaves that guy in the hallway. - This is exactly how I imagine anyone being around Zach Beins would feel like. Like, did he just walk away from me as I was speaking? Yes, yes. - Like for the audio of the show, don't you want it to keep it moving? - No. - So he then calls the hall apportal. I thought it was very funny a camera play where as the camera is showing you the doorway at the back of the hall. - Zach goes, I think it's a doorway. It's like, I know he met portal, but like it was such a funny play on. - It's like when he go, is this a chicken nuggin? We were like, are you having an episode? He's like, I think it's a doorway like, okay. - It sure is. - Your brain was taken today, I'm really happy. So then he says he thinks the little girl everyone's been seeing and hearing is not actually a little girl, but a protector of this portal. And later that night, wouldn't you know it? Zach breaks out fully and hives all over his body. Throughout the show, - It's all the Jolly Ranchers. (laughing) - The sugar near me is too much. - He had one Jolly Rancher and was like, actually, this is gonna kill me. So throughout the show, they sense many, very cold spots. They see something on the SLS camera. They swear they see a little girl's arm reach around the door frame, but you don't see it on camera. - For into the daily interval. - Right, yeah. They hear footsteps, they hear banging, they hear loud whistling. The thermal camera suggests that someone's next to them. As Aaron is saying that the ghosts clearly want them to leave, they're actually is a huge crash behind them. - And all of those things fly off the shelves. - Yeah, when you see a big crash and like, they're all in the room and they all freak out, I do get a little spooked by that, 'cause I'm like, what the F? - That was definitely the spookiest part, was just like, and as he's saying, they clearly don't want us here, and then just huge lack of crashing. Then Zach makes Aaron go walk outside in the woods to attract the vampire creature, of course. But when he comes back in, it's very interesting. Aaron does seem to have gone into a weird trans and starts acting kind of weird. At the same time, if that happens, Zach gets a huge scream on a spirit box, and I'm just gonna end on what I think is the most interesting part was that they went into Clark Gabel's room and used a spirit box to try to talk to him. And they only got two words, they got Potosi and Miss Her. And Potosi was the name of the mountains that his wife died at. (gasps) So they got Potosi and Miss Her. - Oh my God! Zach then literally tells the ghost that is maybe Clark Gabel. We visited your wife, we visited your wife's crash site, 'cause she died a plane crash. We visited your wife's crash site, and then the clip shows footage of the wife's crash site that they were at on their cameras when they were filming for the pioneer saloon, which I'll be covering next week. - See, it's so weird, what the fuck? - That's the Wolf Creek Inn. I'm sorry that that was so long, but I wanted to give you a good one for 500, so. - Wow, what a tale, Wolf Creek Inn, man. Never even heard of it. - I had neither, and now I also, I love when I end up having notes for next week already done, so it's perfect. - Already just lined up, that's kind of awesome. Fantastic, well, so we're gonna hop onto a yappy hour now, and we're gonna talk about why we're going to Utah this weekend because we have an exciting as person in our lives, whom we love to celebrate. Oh, it was an ad we did, and oh, it was the mug. I was gonna get the mug, that's fine. I'll get it in another time. But yeah, if we have another pea break, I'll go get the Zazzle mug, but we are gonna talk about, yeah, the lovely Eva's wedding weekend, so we're all upcoming, so we'll hop on yappy hour, otherwise we'll see you after the break. - She's got a break away. She's all alone. - She's going, she's going. - Oh no, wrong goal, kiddo. - It's chaos out there. There's stomachs don't have to be. Introducing Cultural Kids Probiotics Plus Electrolites. Sugar-free, more hydrating than water alone, from the number one pediatrician recommended brand. Youth soccer is never boring, but your kid's stomach should be. Cultural Probiotics, this science of a boring gut. See website for details. - I got an email yesterday that was like, uncategorized transaction. I was like, oh boy, this better, this'll be good. And I opened it and I realized there was this payment I had made anyway, it doesn't matter what it was, but the point is rocket money has got my back and I was able to hop in, reconfigure some things and be like, oh okay, that's where that money was coming from. I wanted it. Rocket money has saved my butt in countless ways. I don't need it, it's like every time we do one of these, I'm like, oh yesterday, rocket money helped me with something because it's just that regularly beneficial to my life. Rocket money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings, and truly just like Christine said, there are times where I'm like, oh, rocket money is a job. Now I don't need it anymore. And then I subscribe to something else. What's wrong with me? - And then like a week later, they're like, you did it again. And I'm like, no, surely I didn't. - Rocket money helped you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/drink. That's rocketmoney.com/drink. Wow, Christine, look at your locks. - Okay, you don't even need to fake it because today I did. I washed and blow dry my hair. Well, actually I didn't blow dry that's a lie, but I did wash it because I was like, I want to show off. Like I feel like when I do the ads, it's hard to show, but like for neutralful, like it really, I do take it every day and it has really made my hair so much thicker. I mean, I'm showing it here on camera, which is something I've never done in the past. Like look how poofy it is. - Give it a little mufasa main. - I feel like so much more confident in the amount of hair I have and how like full it is. Every time I wash my hair, I'm like, I hope we have neutralful to talk about, and it just never aligns properly, but today I wash my hair. my hair, and I'm here to show it off. Well, NutriFull is the number one dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologist and Christine. And now the NutriFull Women's Formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100% vegan, biode and free, and comes in a smaller capsule size to make your daily routine easier. The smaller capsules makes it a lot easier as well. And I was like, "Thank you for continuing to improve the product." I think that's a really cool, a really cool thing. No prescription needed and it's automated deliveries, and you can pause any time. So whether you're just starting your hair health journey or you've been taking NutriFull for years, this update means you can now get their most advanced support yet. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding and just three or six months. Right now, NutriFull is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit NutriFull.com and enter promo code drink. That's NutriFull.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code drink. All right, well, he has planted himself firmly in the lap. So I guess we're both ready in the limelight of your lap. I would, I don't think anyone be able to see him, but he's, so we're both ready for, for a good story. That was worthy of a real gas, like that came out of my soul. I know that wasn't even, I couldn't have stopped it if I wanted to. He's been doing it a lot lately where he just like really shoves his face into the crotch and then doesn't leave. I don't know what's that being behavior wise, but he's really into it. I think it's like getting pet, you know, just like that put your head. I think it's like the burrowing, like the thing is Geo's short, so he can't reach that. But if he's on your, on, he does that when he's like on couch level, like he does the same thing. So precious. Yeah. Well, Hank, he's and I are ready for a good story. All right. I think you're going to like this one. It took me a few weeks to figure out what I was going to do. And when I did, I just giggled to myself and kicked my feet. Okay. Oh my God. I'm so excited. Yeah. Well, I know it. It's like, well, I guess it. Or here we go. This is the topic for you, and of old-timey forensics, and the ridiculous things people used to do. That's incredible. Analyze crime scenes. Oh. And a lot of the stand up bit from what's his face. John Mulaney. And John Mulaney, like, mop it up, or what you want. Yeah. I knew you'd remember. Now back to my hunch. Yeah. Now back to it. I always forget it. And you always remember. So I didn't even look it up because I knew you would. Yeah. This is, this is the very clear and direct guidance I gave Sersha. Okay. Sersha said, I'm on it and sent a salute emoji. And I love the way they did this. It's, I really do. So it's a fun little, um, it was like a little team effort, but also they named it old-timey forensics, which I loved, um, because the way I described it was, you know that John Mulaney bit M loves that I'm not going to look, I'm actively not going to look up, you know, that whole thing. A big puddle of DNA. Yuck. Mop it up. Yeah. That's the one. So I thought we got it. We got to look into this and, um, after I kind of botched a few things, uh, with trying to be trying to make something work for the show and then like having to completely revert to just like reading out of our own book, stuff like that, I was like, we got to nail this one down. We've really got it. I'm very excited. This is it. I've wanted this for so long. Few. Here we go. This is wonderful. It's the year 1247. Okay. Oh. Do you remember? Okay. Not well. Yeah. So there is, uh, this, I want to say a treatise or a pamphlet, you know, how we love an old-timey pamphlet, okay? Mm-hmm. It's from the Fuzhian Provinces of China, um, and it was, which is the present day name. It was written by Song Chi, and it was called collected cases of injustice rectified, which is the English translation. It is also sometimes called the washing away of wrongs, and according to the Library of Congress, it is recognized as the world's first ever systematically written book of forensic science. Hell yeah. Yeah. 1247. No chance. That's on eBay, huh? I know. Right. Like maybe, maybe. With love a copy. You'd got to pull a Nicholas Cage to get that out of the Library of Congress, for sure. Okay, so the book contains detailed instructions to perform thorough autopsies, how to investigate crime scenes themselves, and many, like actual specific methods of investigation by detail. It also contains the earliest known documentation of forensic entomology, which is the use of bugs in criminal investigations. So here's an example from this book, which mentions entomology as a method of, in 1247, here's an example from the book. An early murder case appeared to have been committed using a sickle. So everyone in the area who had used sickles, which was most people, in daily work at that time to harvest rice, these folks were summoned to one place and instructed to bring their sickles. They were laid under the hot sun. And eventually, a significant number of flies swarmed one sickle while ignoring the rest. Fascinating. Yes. The magistrate concluded that they were drawn to the unseen remnants of blood and other gore that the murderer had not been able to fully clean off of the sickle. And he broke down and confessed in front of the other suspects. And so, yeah, 13th century. That's so smart. It's like, well, which one has the gross decaying smell? Which one do the flies want to, which one has death on it? Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. I would have never, honestly, if you told me even five minutes ago, before I knew about the 1200s being involved in this, I didn't think evidence was even an option until, fuck, way later than 1200s. I thought everyone just gets away with murder until, I don't know. I don't even know. I would have never known the 1200s. Crazy. Well, okay. And I will give you some credit because we'll get into, remember, we're also discussing like the old-timey, not effective methods. Sure. So even though this is 1247, there's a whole lot between then and now that's like not so great. That's not so impressive. Got it. So, but yes, this really is wild. I was very impressed by this information. And so yes, that's just an example from the book. So but yeah, it demonstrates that as early as the 13th century investigators in China were observing how insects interacted with like the blood and tissue of a murder victim, which is still a science that is used today. But let's just say, I love howisters should put this actually probably much better than I did, advancements in forensic science have never exactly been linear. And I think that's a really great way to put it, yes, across centuries and countries of course, investigators have relied on varied methods. Many of them very, very, very questionable at best. Song Qi laid out extremely high standards for performing meticulous autopsies, emphasizing that mistakes could lead to false convictions and further injustice. Meanwhile, in the 1990s, in the US, in Texas, Dr. Ralph Erdman was botching his autopsies left and right. So significantly that hundreds of the autopsies he performed revealed outrageous quote-unquote mistakes. Yeah. So, you know, think of that kind of whiplash from 1240s. I guess not whiplash because it's a really long ways away, but it just goes to show like even how absolutely different practices could be. 1990s. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have nothing to say. That's just crazy. Well, I do want to tell you a little bit about the botched autopsies because they are just something. Hundreds of autopsies revealed mistakes, like making a statement about weighing a dead man's spleen during an autopsie only for it to be later confirmed that the man's spleen had been surgically removed years before his death. Oh. So, what had Ralph weighed? Like, would it be worse if he just made it up completely or if he was so bad at anatomy that he weighed the wrong organ and called the spleen? You know what I mean? Oh, Ralph. Like, it brings. Oh, Ralph. It brings to mind so many questions. Like, is it better or worse that he's just bad at it or that he's lying? Like, it's just all shady and weird. Yeah. Or did he really think it was? Exactly. Is he just dumb or is he lying? And it really makes you wonder. And then the fact that, like, what else did he fuck up? Apparently, a lot. Apparently, a lot of things. In another case, for example, he somehow misplaced the head of the victim. The head. How do you miss that? How do you. Does that just chef boy already rolled down the street? And that's how you lose it because there's no other way you can lose a head. That's really the only explanation because, wouldn't you know, at the head was suspected to contain a bullet, which was a cause of death. And the head was never located. He just lost it. So the prime evidence. And we just. Where. You run to the bathroom and you leave it on the counter, by accident? Truly? Where does it fucking go? Maybe he thought it was a spleen. And he put it back to. Like, I'm like, I don't know with this fucking guy. That's crazy. Like, I could understand. and as someone who doesn't know which organs or which, I can understand mixing up a spleen with like a liver or something, I could not a spleen in a head, anything in a head or like just losing a head. How do you fucking, I can't imagine a holding a head. That's not attached to a body and then just not knowing where it is. - Only an example of hundreds of things that you've done so egregiously wrong, you know, that have like caused serious damage to all these cases. It's really upsetting. - Does he have a name like the dummy of forensics or something? - You know, I don't know because that's a good one if they don't have one for him yet. - He absolutely, he should be notorious for being the person you cannot be worse than. - He must be because this is clearly the example that was given, you know, as the perfect counter to song she's beautiful treat us on how to do a proper autopsy. - We were just saying in a previous episode how like, you know, the art of using a name to suggest that you really fuck something up. - Yes. - But you really ralfed it. Like that's good. It sounds good. Yeah, it sounds good. Yeah, so you've got song she here laying out how to do like this autopsy properly in 1237. Now Ralph is losing people's heads in the 90s. So ups and downs all over the place. Now let's get into crime scene handling, which is kind of where this all began with the, with the John Mulaney and all that. So for a long time, yeah, here we go. There was no widely accepted official procedures as we've kind of gathered. I always think of Voliska, Axe, Murder House and those kind of things because it really is like, almost absurd the amount of what, like the amount of just how wrong everything was treated as like a crime scene, as far as crime scenes go. And how are they just picking things up and putting them down and just like, I'll tell you all about it. So thank you so much for asking. Apparently how well or on the other side of the coin, badly a crime scene was secured was just up to chance completely. We covered a case, it was a case of Edward Wheeler Hall and Eleanor Reinhart Mills. They were murdered in New Jersey in 1922. And their bodies were discovered beneath a crab apple tree at the border of two counties. And then different police forces disagreed over whose jurisdiction the scene fell under. And while they were having this disagreement, the crowd that had gathered just started walking around as these bodies were laying there, like picking up the victims belongings, passing them around, going through their purse, like their purse and touching everything. And the police are arguing about whose jurisdiction it is. They took Eleanor's scarf and hat. They even started peeling bark and breaking branches off the crab apple tree for souvenirs, you know, of the crime scene. Crazy. Yeah, the scene was completely compromised, but it wasn't even just the fact that like civilians got their hands on literally their hands on everything. It was also the fact that investigators didn't even like bother getting evidence themselves. So it was like, they, what they weren't really worried about that, I guess it like wasn't like the John Mulaney but like they literally didn't think about it. And I wonder like how they, I feel like it's one thing to like not know that DNA is something that you can collect for evidence. But everybody had to know that like we should keep this, we should keep everything as is so we can figure out the story. We should keep the scarf on the body of the dead woman so we can see if it had anything to, you know what I mean? That part just like, 'cause it's one thing to be ignorant to something, but it's another thing to just feel like really knowingly insensitive about it. Like if I feel like at no, at any point in time, like if I were to time travel back to the 1500s and I saw a death, I feel like I would know like let's, maybe I wouldn't know the phrase secure the area, but I'd be like, let's take a look and see if we can figure it out. You'd think, but then I think there's also a power to like one person went to look. So like I followed and then like the police don't care. So I guess we can look and like someone just handed me something, what am I holding? I don't know, it's like I can see where you'd get kind of mixed up in this. I like to think I would not, but what the fuck do I know? Do you know what year is sure, what era? They start securing crime scenes to be able to like just study it. So that was make sure like homes. 22, I don't know, we should look up like when, caution tape started. Well, I don't know, people just start saying don't steal that. Yeah, I don't know that there was necessarily a year because it was also like every jurisdiction, every town, everything was like kind of different. You know, it was sort of like by the lock of where you were or like see here this jurisdiction issue caused this whole delay. And now people are like peeling off bark of the tree. I mean, it's just insane. So the scene was completely compromised. They didn't even photograph the bodies even though the police had that technology. It was sort of just like, well, that was weird and then like moved on, you know, it's the same. Yeah, it is, it is, it is. Crime scenes were often trampled by onlookers by family members, right? You have to remember like, you know, if you think about it, like you often see in scenes of fictionalized crime, like the family trying to get to the body of their loved one and having to be held back. And it's like there was a time where they wouldn't hold you back. Right. So I guess then I could at least, I can understand that compromising. Absolutely. And jumping in. Absolutely. I think most people probably would do this, whether or not you even realize what you're doing. It's just human nature. It probably instinct. But so, yeah. So family members, onlookers, investigators themselves would be disregarding the crime scene. In a time before evidence like DNA, like you mentioned, or even fingerprints could be analyzed. Of course, no one could be expected to avoid like compromising that kind of evidence 'cause we wouldn't have known about it like you said. But like you said, you didn't need to like fucking trample and like disrupt the entire scene and like let people just like show up and take the clothes off of the people. I mean, that's a little like a rational mind. But I guess when there's power of numbers and the police are not saying anything, what are you gonna do? Like walk away. I guess. Also like if somebody emotionally just like ran to the scene, I'll just serve everything. Then it's almost like, well, it's already been damaged. So I guess I can like pull her away or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. But like, ooh, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, that's hard. So not only that, but the media was often also allowed into scenes and like I remember this with the Pearl Bryan case where like journalists were just like getting up close to the body and like, you know, it's just like that. And so we're onlookers, that was also a very similar situation. But yeah, the media was allowed to like walk around, look at things, take pictures. And then that means they were allowed to like touch things, move things, you know, and it's like, I don't like that. For example, at this time, this was like not an unheard of thing to happen if like say your neighbor was murdered. Neighbors would just walk in the front door and like poke around. Crazy. And just like see during the investigation. Well, I feel like that happened maybe during Lizzie Borden. I feel like-- Yeah, I was just thinking that of that example. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that did happen. Everyone was just going in and looking around and like talk about like how she would have not been able to get away with that today with like just blood spatter everywhere. Like it's, anyway, I feel, it's to this day, sorry, to this day that location is like not properly preserved. Like they're not in my opinion respectfully taken care of. Like they just let people like take pictures on the couch with a dad dying like pose with like a fake accent shit. And then they love that. They try to turn it into an axe throwing station. Yes. I'm like, what is wrong with these people? Like, I mean, I say as someone who has paid money to go visit that house. But, you know, in some-- But yeah, you do see like, I feel like from the beginning, from the very start of all this, it's just never been-- It was like made for Lucky Loose a little bit. Yeah, it was made for-- No, I totally agree. Because yeah, we are kind of Lucky Loose in a lot of ways, because it's just a human nature. But also like our nature, like we are curious and nosy and like, you know, love a story and what-- But this kind of shit, let's be real. Like this is out of hand. Like being wandering into your neighbor's house and looking around a crime scene is a wild choice to be a big no. Should be a no from any decade, if you ask me. But anyway, all right. So, of course, we still, to this very day, discuss the issue of bad crime scene forensic etiquette, right? Like, we're still running into that issue in a lot of cases. But now, at least there are like widely accepted standards for comparison. So it's more likely that someone whose careless will be called out. But like, when you said, when was it kind of standardized? Like, it's still not necessarily something that everyone follows, like, to protocol, you know what I mean? Like, there are protocols. But like, not everyone in charge follows scientifically back standards. And there are still issues with this kind of thing that happened, issues with miscommunication, whatever. Anyway, we're going to now move into some actual methods that we're used. So the first one I have is kind of a surprising one and that eye. I didn't realize was so controversial, which is bullet comparison. - Oh, interesting. Okay. I thought you were gonna say like, like, well, you keep it going. - Oh, bullet, like, yeah, no, no, not that. I know what you mean, but matching bullets to specific guns, because this has been like long considered a reliable forensic technique in murder trials and has definitely been used in several cases I've covered. And the idea is that a bullet or casing will have unique marks from being fired from its weapon. So when investigators discover bullets or casings at a crime scene, they can find the matching exact weapon and prove the owner fired that weapon at the crime scene, like by fingerprints, what have you? - Makes sense to me. - Yep, the issue is that it's not actually quite as reliable as advertised. - Oh. - I know, and apparently bias makes it worse. A recent study by Iowa State University found that ballistics experts enthusiastically report when they've confirmed a match for the prosecution, but often avoid reporting a mismatch that would support the defense. Instead, they tend to label mismatches as, quote, inconclusive, which deliberately implies it might be a match even when it clearly isn't. So that is not great. It is shady. But on top of that, the state of bullet/casing analysis used to be even worse, because before this guy named Philip O. Grovel invented a comparison microscope where you could look at two things at once, what you'd have to do is put the bullet under the microscope, look at it, try to remember it like a frickin' highlight puzzle. - Oh, really, oh. - And then move it and put the other one and go, okay, I think it looks the same. And then switch it back. - Fucking crazy. - I know. And even if you had two microscopes, you would still be going from one to the other, to the one and going. And there was no way to look at both simultaneously, closely enough to really get a good look. - Or get a picture of either, so you can look at them next to each other and analyze them. - No, they were just kind of like playing a highlights game and people's lives were at full stake. I mean, Leon and I are in highlights zone right now. - I see, I see, I see. - Top of mind, you know. She just started reading the other day. - What? - Sorry. - She just started reading in front of me the other day. - Reading what? - Reading a book. - Reading a book? - Yeah. - She just knows words now. Oh my God. - She just went bluey and bingo went down stairs and I looked at her and I was like, did I miss something and she goes, I guess I can read now. And I was like, what the f? And I texted everyone in my family and they were like, no, we have no idea. So it just happened, I don't know. - It just literally turned on like two days ago. I was just sitting there and she just was like, and she goes, wow. And now she's just like, I want to read things. And I mean, she's still like very much learning, but it was like, you have a lot to start. - Wow. - And like clicked. She was like, oh, I get it. Like and, you know, anyway, it was really crazy. But oh my gosh. Well, hey, congratulations to Leona. Damn. - I was like, how has nobody told me this update? Like, did she even know? Did she realize at the same time you have where you both just blown away going, oh my God. - So I thought surely like she had known already that she could do this, even though she said no. But then the next, like, oh wow, I can read, I guess. The next day, I'm telling the next morning, I'm like, oh my God, blaze, listen to this. Like this is a, she just started reading, I have a video. And I'm telling blaze and she overhears me. And she goes, yeah, it was so strange. I guess I just learned how to read suddenly. And blaze is like, oh, first I'm hearing of this. So anyway, it was just really bizarre. - Wow, so you really watched her gain like sentience? That's crazy. - It was, it was really, it was very rewarding. I was like, hell yeah. - Hell yeah, brother, all right. - Oh, she was so empowered after that. Now all she wants to do is read. And I'm like, I've never been so proud of my life. - Pruscious. - It takes fucking forever. But isn't this like about the age that she's supposed to know how to read or is this? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's like normal. It's not like abnormal. But I think it was the way that it just sort of, I mean, to witness the moment is crazy. - And it was her fifth day of school. And I was like, did it happen? - No, no. - Did something just like, some fun taught her the hack. Just when we know you got here. - I don't want it to be so clear. Like I'm not like training her to read. Like I know they're learning their alphabet. And we read books. But we're not like doing some program or something. Like I'm just like, she'll learn when she learns well apparently she just decided one day. So. - Oh my God. - But it took my sister a really long time to learn to read because she was so stubborn and said, I won't learn to read 'cause I want you to read to me. And if I learned to read out I will. So she just-- - That's just stubborn. - Yeah, and so, but now she's an avid reader. So it doesn't say anything about what time you learned to read or whatever. But it was just like such a shocking update. And I was like, what's happening? Anyway, fun fact. - Sidebar. - Sidebar. - Hang on, hang on. Let me do something crazy. - I don't know what this is. - What? - But I went to, I got the milk shake out. - Yeah. - Is that a fucking leg? Is that a fog leg? What is that sticking out? - M, M, M. - What is that? - M, put that down. - So anyway, I need a napkin to grab it and pull. - No, don't pull. No, take the lid off first. - No, 'cause what if it's alive? - Oh, it just fell right off. - Well, I don't know nothing. - No, M, don't take the leg off to put the lid off so you can see what the legs attached to. - Worst thing in the world is this one happens to be Oreo. So I'll never know what the clumps are if there were-- - Yes, you will. It's a bug, open it. That was a bug leg. I need to be honest with you. - That was a bug leg, right? - Yes, it was a bug leg. Please open the lid. It's not alive, I promise. I'm gonna scream. - I've just touched it with my bare hands beforehand. - I told you to open the lid, not pull on the leg. I'm gonna scream. I, I'll never know. - You will. - I'll never know. - Scoop it out. - Oh, with what? I have nothing. Don't even, don't, you're not gonna drag me over you. - No, I'm not, no, I'm not. - That was a bug leg. - Right? Okay, I'm gonna love y'all, okay. So, hmm, so I'm having one milkshake today. Hope that's okay. - That's hilarious. - That literally was so, I was, I thought so many times, like I gotta put a straw in that thing and then I was like, that looks like a leg. - That, I'm distressed about that. That was not nice. - I'll go digging after all this. - Okay, can you sense, like no, don't send me a picture. Can you tell me if it was a bug? - I will, yeah. - 'Cause I just wanna know. - That was really disgusting. I like, that's, I was, you kept telling me about Leonoree and I like, do not want to lose that moment. - I'm sorry, I just see you doing something and I was like, if I had known it was so urge and I would have shut up, but. - I mean, no, no, no, no, I just, I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna take that moment from, like that's such a big announcement. But I, but I was like, I'm pretty sure that's also like fucking spider roach leg. - No, that's also an emergency. So it really was like, if it was a live-out of an emergency, if it was moving around, yeah. - Certainly, I wouldn't have let you give that one up. No, wow, okay, so that's shocking. I don't even know where we were here, but basically, oh, they were trying to do the back and forth. Oh, highlights, that's why. 'Cause I was saying like, we're really into highlights magazine right now and this is part of the reason, right? She's, but she loves like the silly pictures and like find the difference, spot the difference. That's what this is with these microscopes, looking at bullet casing. - Yeah, totally. - With people's, find the difference. - Live, like their entire futures. So yeah, they would like just try to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and be like, yeah, I think it looks the same. That was about it. Yeah. And then you could get an innocent person convicted or killed, oops, if you mess up. So, no big deal. Yeah, I don't think highlights is quite as high stakes, but what do I know? - That would have been, you know, back in the day though, maybe that was part of their training. It's like, okay, get a highlights magazine, you gotta practice 10 differences in this picture. Go for it. - I feel like you'd have to like look at two barcodes, you know, and be like, what's the difference? - Yes. - You know what I mean? Like, what are the lines? - Oh, it's like, how on earth are you supposed to trust that you're doing this right? Or that you're like, not this fucking guy? What's his name? He Ralph'd it and like, put the head somewhere. It's, you can't do that. - No. - So let's get into hair analysis, which I did know was a very controversial subject. - Oh. - They're not kind of a subject. The controversial method of forensic analysis. So DNA was not used as evidence in the US court system until 1986, so rather recently. And until then, hair analysis was a very popular forensic technique. Experts, so-called experts, would use microscopic with these fucking microscopes analysis to compare the hair of suspects to hair they discovered at the crime scene. If they believed the hair samples were a match, they would testify during trials that this was evidence of the defendant's guilt. And this was accepted at the highest levels. The FBI presented microscopic hair analysis as evidence in as many as 3,000 cases. But when the advent of DNA, evidence as a tool came around, it was determined that you cannot actually prove that hair came from a person's body just by looking at it because you could look at it and then do a DNA test and they'd be completely different people. - Crazy. - Could it also do animal versus people? because what if there was a dog or a cat in the area? And now it's because of the same color, I want to-- - I believe, you mean, wait, you mean like animal to animal? - Or you know, if it's a human? - It was animal to human also, like a risk factor. - Probably they were more likely to be able to determine if it was like cat or dog hair, but I mean, I don't know, I don't know. So let's see, hair analysis has basically gone the way of a similarly debunked form of forensic analysis, which is bite mark analysis. - Oh, I thought you were gonna say blood spatter. - Yes, very interesting, but we're going bite marks first, which has also been ruled pretty much useless in identifying attackers. In a 2015 statement, the FBI admitted that, quote, microscopic hair analysis contained errors in at least 90% of cases. - 90% not at least. - Isn't that how it's had Bundy ended up getting caught though? - Hair analysis. - Oh, bite marks. Wouldn't it bite on someone's butt or something? - Oh, I'm not sure. I think there was a bite that was part of the evidence, but I don't think it was like the thing that got in. - Got it, got it. - I could be wrong with that. - I don't know, but at least no. - That one was right, so. - Right, and 26 is another quote. 26 of 28 FBI agent slash analysts provided either testimony with erroneous statements or submitted laboratory reports with erroneous statements. So bite mark analysis had already been debunked like long before the hair stuff had been was debunked. And so that kind of went the same way of like, oh wow, we didn't realize how completely erroneous this was. The fact that more than 90% of the time it was incorrect is a shocking, a shocking number. Errors in at least 90% of cases. And then 26 out of 28 analysts giving erroneous statements is also a shocking number. - Wow. - According to the Innocence Project, 329 wrongful convictions at the time had been overturned using DNA evidence to debunk the hair analysis. And 74 of the convictions involved faulty hair evidence. Literally just looking at hair and going, yep, it matches their hair. - Insane. - So here's a good way that searcher put it to like, put it in perspective. If you think about it this way, humans are mammals, right? Most of us grow some type of hair somewhere on our bodies. There are billions of us, so the hair on our bodies will inevitably look like the hair of other peoples. And so like imagine as an example, trying to claim that a piece like a strand of fur from one cat, a gray cat or something, belong to that gray cat, not the other gray cat down the road. It's a similar idea, like brunettes or blondes. It's like, oh, what's the same color? - Exactly, it's a billion pieces of hair per person and there's eight billion people. - Right, you're just gonna be lost. And yeah, and just by looking at it, like nothing more. So it's just, there's just a way. - So now we're gonna go way more old school again. We're gonna go trial by dog combat. - Oh. - Yeah, yeah. A 14th century legend tells the story of Aubrey de Mont-Dedier, a member of King Charles V's court. It goes that around 1371 he was murdered in the Forest of Bondy by Robert McCair. The only witness was Aubrey's dog who chased Robert until he was captured. - Wow. - King Charles ordered that Robert fight a duel for his life against the dog. - Oh. - Robert was armed with a stick. The dog won the duel. - Good boy. - Robert confessed and was hanged for the crime. So we don't know exactly how accurate these details are, but the dog basically, - The point is-- - Well, the point is the dog winning was evidence that the dog knew that the man killed its owner. - It feels a lot like, well, for which floats, - Sure, sure. - A person. - Interesting that you say that because about three bullets later, that's the exact thing, but yes, precisely. It's like, we'll-- - If a woman floats and she's a waiter if the-- - Whatever the-- - We'll get to it. But yeah, it's like, lose, lose. It just feels like, okay, I mean, I don't know. Maybe you did kill the guy, I guess, but like, the fact that the dog, I don't know, it just feels bizarre that you a, involve the dog in a duel at all, and then b, like-- - Yeah, well the dog, dude, damn. All he did was like, help by getting the guy. - Well, we don't, but that's the thing is like, how do we know that? - Oh, right, I mean, the baby guy, yeah, right. - He just chased the guy down. So then they're like, well, the dog was really mad at you. So clearly, he's testifying against you. Like, that was the logic, right? - And also, I was a lot of the rules of a dog duel. Like, if this guy was able to get up and confess to this later, he clearly didn't die. - Like, what if the dog won the duel, right? Exactly. So maybe this will be my next episode. The dog duel, yeah. - Like the fuck is a dog duel. - Actually, that probably be so dark. I don't wanna go there. - Sure. - Yeah, but so, now, I'm so glad that you said that. So let's go, there are a few more things here. How exactly accurate these details are as iffy, but the fact that they used a dog's testimony is like, not even that weird when you think of, like, the other historically used investigative techniques. Before we get to the witch floating, there's another thing we've discussed on this podcast, which is episode 305, we covered the Green Briar Ghost, which is a 19th century case in which, remember that guy, Trout, he was sentenced to life in prison for murdering his wife after his mother-in-law, the woman's mother claimed she was visited by her daughter's ghost who revealed the details of how she had been murdered. And one report of the case claimed that when Trout, the murderer tried to wash some sheets after the crime that they turned red with blood and this indicated that he was guilty. And interestingly, the idea that blood reacts to the presence of the victim's murderer is like a pretty common thing through history. - Really? - Yeah. - Oh, it's got like some sort of like bond all of a sudden, some like supernatural link. - Yes, yeah. 100%. It's called crewennation. - Okay. - Many cultures have ancient variations of the trial by ordeal. And a trial by ordeal, first of all, what a nightmare. I want nothing to do with this, whatever the, ordeal to begin with is enough. I don't want it, I don't want it. - And now I'm on trial on top of this ordeal. Fuck that. - Forget it. Via the ordeal, it's all gonna be bad for me. I think we know. So they're different by culture and era, but generally the principle is that an accused person must be put to some type of physical test to prove that they are innocent. God help me, okay. - Right, yeah. - A popular example in Western media comes from the UK and colonial America and this podcast, which is submerging an accused witch in water to see whether they would float. - Hmm. - A guilty witch would float, whereas an innocent person would sink. - So no matter what, you're done. Either you or you are, either you're in or off. - No longer with us. - Either you're innocent and we drowned in innocent person or you float. - But we tried. - Which also like, if you're not tied to a weight or anything, to save yourself from drowning, you would swim up and float. So no matter what, you're also supposed to still see. - But I think so, they would like tie your arms and stuff too. I think it was like. - Oh, so we're just killing people, okay, cool. - Well, yeah, but I think also like even whether you're bound or not you're right, like if you tread water, if you can't swim, you're screwed. If you can swim and you're not bound by anything, you're screwed. - You're a witch and we'll kill you later, yeah. - And so it says here though, like the idea was that you would be rescued if you were innocent before you drowned, but like, you know, the witch trials aren't like notorious for being fair. - They're notorious. - What caused or helped pull or life-saving? - A fish in or life-saving, yeah. As early as the 12th century, people in parts of Europe were subjected to a type of trial by Ordeal Knowet, known as crewination. Now, crewination comes from the Latin word crewin-tatus, which means to make bloody. - Okay. - This ordeal was also known as the trial of the beer. Now, beer is spelled B-I-E-R, which is the German spelling of the beverage, but it was also apparently a type of cart used to transport human corpses. So I'm picturing like, bring out your dead, you know, and like the cart from Monipython is sort of what I'm picturing. - So interesting that that word would mean two very on-brand and that's why we drink things. - You know, I hadn't even put that together, Am. - Yeah, well, so was it called like a beer cart or like, was it just one of those things where like two words made the same thing? Or one word means two things. - I'm not entirely sure, 'cause it just says the trial of the beer. So I'm not a hundred percent sure, maybe it'll come in one of these quotes, but essentially what happened is the trial by ordeal, forced a suspected murderer to confront the remains of a murder victim. And the belief was that the body of a murder victim would react physically to the presence of its killer. Usually the body would ooze blood either from the mouth or from the wounds like where they were stabbed, for example. And the body might also froth at the mouth at its murderer's approach. This was the idea, anyway. - Yeah. - Yeah. How ideal that would work real if only that was how as simple as it was I know right and it's like Yeah, I guess if I guess bodies do react strangely, you know post mortem and there wouldn't have been explanations But like yeah, this is a pretty wild one to me that that really would have been like back in the day when they thought that's how things got Solved they must have thought they found just the full proof like oh just how easy is it to just lock people away now I mean the king literally wrote King James a first wrote about it and beat was like this is it like this is Modern stuff and like I get it. I mean I get the hype of like it feels like supernatural But like I don't know a lot of things probably felt supernatural that were actual science So it's like right I necessarily blame them for like is it it's Neil deGrasse Tyson I think who has that theory where it's like the more science we have the less God there is because it's like the more things are Able to be explained the less you need to like just have faith in something. Oh That's deep. I have no clue. Yeah, I think that's it's like well They thought the sky was blue because the gods blah blah blah and it's like actually now we have a reason for that and we don't need the gods story But right right right right right so anyway, I mean, yeah I could imagine in a world where like you said there was less science like you just have to assume that It's just beyond our realm of we's have to believe and or you know could be in it. Yeah And if if a body is reacting a certain way. It's like well Yeah, it doesn't mean something, you know I would believe in it if I lived in that time I would absolutely have fallen for it totally So King James as I said the first of England believed in this forensic mechanism in 1597 He wrote in a secret murder if the dead carcass be at any time thereafter Handled by the murderer it will gush out of blood as if the blood were crying out to the heaven for revenge of the murderer God having appointed that secret supernatural sign Oh a secret supernatural you got to see how he wrote the shit. It's not anything. There's a why there's it's just nuts It's just nutty is what it is he was also a murderer murderer The murderer We are gathered here today. What's the um? Yeah Love it's the princess bride, right? Yes. Yeah Oh, I Mowage Yeah, that's it. Mowage. Okay. Thank you But a bit of a bit of a So in addition to this sort of blood-gushing phenomenon Sometimes the accused had to call out to the victim by name as part of this Be right like they would have to like say the victim's name Or even touch the victim with their hand called ordeal by touch A lot of ordeal is going on. I'm like a single one of them. You know It was too many ordeals when the first one was introduced. Yeah, the ordeal itself is actually just a combination of all ordeals involved It's actually Enough all of it's enough for me. I think it was enough from the moment it began The beer right had other issues in 1660 Maryland Thomas Merteen stood trial for the murder of Catherine Lake a woman who worked at Tom as Thomas's servant Three other servants testified that Thomas beat Catherine and Catherine had indeed been beaten to death So the servants were like hey Ding ding ding that's your guy. He's an abusive person and he has beaten her in the past and now she is dead and has been beaten to death Hmm But her body didn't react when Thomas was present Okay, her dead body Right, of course, and it's a trial of the beer and so he was acquitted For this wow, yeah, you know like he's just sitting there fucking shaken hoping hoping that nothing happens I don't know that he was that worried because Catherine They were like nope, he didn't do it. Catherine was ruled to have died of fits of the mother Which was another way to say female hysteria basically girl. Yeah And her thesis on the topic Margaret Ingram wrote that speaking bodies, which is like the term for when The bodies supposed to be reacting to you know a living environment speaking bodies were usually only believed or heard If they were the bodies of men wouldn't you know it especially in fucking 17th century Women were considered, you know, just unreliable victims even back then even after they were dead, which is a wild thing to say Like they can't even be dead correctly, you know, it's like Of course, why not? Now large-scale crewination was also sometimes done Where like an entire neighborhood who knew the victim might have to go around like touching the body to determine If and if something's if blood happened they'd be like you did it just terrifying because if you Didn't it's like what the hell Well, there were always doubters who were like there's no way this is real And they were against it as a forensic technique It was actually used into the late 19th century so late 1800s And um for now. That's all I've got for you today because I didn't want to go way too overboard But yeah happy 500. I just thought we had to get into it No, I'm sorry that mine was so long then I just um Man That was a good one that was a good that was a good call on the top back to my hunch is exactly it That's that sums up the entire thing 100% I and I I love that John Mulaney, but I it's so funny very good. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well. Okay. So what was out of all that? What was your favorite thing that you learned? Um I gotta be honest. I get from the from the top the flies was really cool. Yeah Was gonna say the fact that in 1200 we were like already like getting some Really hot info that actually was true Um, and then 1990s Texas really just being kind of the Bear dichotomy of that was really powerful Yeah, and fucking Ralph. I'll think about him for the rest of my life I'm getting it anytime I Ralph it you know And I'm not surprised, but it just goes to show that throughout the years like there's always been Some real stinkers working in the medical field work like someone should have been checking their work Or they should have not gotten a certificate or however they got there it needs to not happen with a lot of Responsibility was maybe not vetted properly. Yeah, and I I truly wondered did he think he deserved to be there or it was was every day Was he just praying that he do you know maybe that's my next rabbit hole this guy. Yeah, he seems like someone that um Yeah, I don't know he really throws me because I would love to get a drink with him and hate him the whole time But ask a lot of questions. I'm maybe I'll do that next. I'll look him up Okay, I can't promise he's got to have a name. He's got to have a name. I didn't I gave you his name. I've gave you his name No, no, he's got to have like a nickname of like the blank of medicine or something. Yeah, we'll come up with it Hopefully if I remember um, but I do have to pee so I'm gonna um, okay run away now, but we'll do the final 500 Happy 500. We've done it. Have a lot of them. That's why we drink