E492 Peanut Butter Relationships and Bagel Traumas

today's episode is sponsored by the aspca pet health insurance program uh as a frequent goer of the dog park uh i have seen some scary things happen to the dog park uh luckily not to my dog although very recently we had our first scare he ended up stepping on a bee and got stung but i was absolutely panicked as a first-time dog parent who has absolutely um infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that you really are thankful that you have your pet insurance uh the aspca pet health insurance program offers customizable accident and illness plans that can fit your budget your lifestyle even your pet's particular quirks um like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents because let's be honest that bills can add up fast all we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are this will help you in the long run aspca pet health insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets and when it's time to submit a claim it's easy just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account so you can get back to focusing on what really matters your pet my little hankies and to explore coverage visit aspca pet insurance.com drink that's aspca pet insurance.com drink one more time again that's aspca pet insurance.com drink this is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either independence american insurance company or united states fire insurance company and produced by ptz insurance agency limited the aspca is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance fall never arrives all at once first the air then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other a jacket meets a dress a hoodie slips beneath a blazer an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall find fall your way at ross solar plexus that's so weird i was just talking about solar plexus today every time i eat avocado and like it feels like someone kicked me in my solar plexus like in your sternum here yeah like right underneath it feels well okay wait that's why i'm getting that's so weird that's why i'm getting this food sensitivity thing oh is that the same thing you feel oh hi everyone sorry i want to can we hop in i don't know when we're allowed to hop in i don't want to jump in with like a lot of people i don't want to jump in with like a lot of people i don't want you're good you're good own health stuff and i didn't mean to bring this to the group but um i did get some dms helping me out from last time i forgot that i talked about this like i completely forgot i mentioned on the last episode that like um i've been having this weird like no appetite so i can only eat smoothies and stuff and um i'm not pregnant folks check that i was actually on my period when i recorded that so don't don't that's not the culprit but you say like that solar plexus that is literally where like my sternum it feels like there's like a or like something like a like a inflammation i don't know so yeah so that's and i don't know if it's like food sensitivity or stress or crones or you know what the hell no it's only whatever it's when i eat avocado but it's also when i smell um either jasmine or like like not vanilla like the food but vanilla like the fragrance like the flowery plant the flower oh interesting if i was like oh my god it smells so good and i'm like i think i'm gonna throw up like i really feel so funny i stick my whole face into it so yeah that i feel sick to my stomach it like really makes me like the solar like the nausea of someone hitting your solar plexus yeah you know i wonder it's like amazing kind of how our bodies are like nope we don't like that i it's yeah it is wild and then of course allison just planted a bunch of jasmine and oh yeah yeah and then and then allison's gonna be on dateline yeah she's just slowly killing me yeah yeah exactly for dinner yeah and this is like a healthy pesto made with avocado yeah i mean it goes it goes away after five minutes but those five minutes i'm like i feel like i just like got just got off the craziest roller coaster so that's really weird because i have that i've never been able to eat like stevia or like aspartame or anything and it like immediately makes my throat like swell and it sounds bad it feels bad but it's it sure does but it's not life i mean as far as i know i don't go so far as to make it life threatening and i avoid it but it like is extremely uncomfortable and i leona does not have that with sugar-free stuff like i cannot go near sugar-free even like that the like plant sugar-free stuff like monk fruit monk fruit which is so weird because it's like it's a plant you know and they were all remember stevia was like it's from a plant right yeah it's organic stevia and everything and i was like constantly at school walking around like are these cookies sugar-free because they're killing me interesting um what would you yeah it like really just kind of feels like i shouldn't be drinking this okay i mean that's and it's like i mean i do feel a little left out of the diet coke like culture because i'm i would be so hardcore into the i know i would be hard you give me diet curly vibes i do i know i feel it in my bones and it's like a coca-cola but like that's just not the same you know i've got a friend at the dog park who i think brings a diet coke like every day to the park but it's like it's i i like want to yeah i get the vibe so hard and he uh we went to chili's he got a diet coke he's like i fucking love diet coke my brother has that he's so into it i'm also not in that circle because i have never been a diet anything person do you not like it or is it like you just yeah it tastes gross right i mean it also poisons me but to me it also tastes gross i i mean like the aspartame flavor which he has said he's like that's the thing and i'm like okay but it like tastes gross to me yeah yeah i can't stand that i want like well i was gonna say i want real real real real sugar but then like coke these days isn't even real sugar so i just want corn syrup i guess what though that corn syrup doesn't do a damn thing to my throat and i love it so what the fuck ever at this point it's like the monk fruit is gonna kill me so i might as well have some corn syrup yeah have you ever had coke with the yellow top what's that no um they it comes out during like uh jewish holidays because it's um at least that's what i know it as it's like jewish coke because it's kosher and it's like real cane sugar or something but it it's supposed to taste more like the original coke but it's like real cane sugar or something but it it's supposed to taste more like the original recipe i've heard that about the the mexican coke like in the glass bottle when you go to yeah maybe it's the same thing and i they just market it as two different things but uh yeah they're marketing they're definitely gonna sell the yellow top though i don't know about you'll now that i've said it you'll see it eventually and it's i thought you meant like a cold foam top and i was like oh interesting that's so la no no no like the like the leaders at the store will have yellow tops what the leaders like the two liter bottles of coke i thought you meant like the team leader like the general manager of the store will be wearing a yellow top and i was like hello and he's jewish every time yeah and he he wants to make sure that your drinks are kosher i really was thrown off for a moment and i thought we were living and i think we were in two different realities because i was like i know what i said incredible and you know this has been happening ever since we recorded ads before this like i said we can't even blame mercury it's not retrograde we're not going to blame mercury it's not retrograde we're not going we're just you know like we're in a words are a bit a little uh it's we're in a rough times i mean hear me say a freaking uh disclosure whatever those things terms and conditions at the end i was like poor jack our editor is like struggling i um i was telling you before i'm i'm i'm changing the topic by the way yeah i mean i think i was already i already left the other before we talk about you know the jews and their yellow tops and then i was like is this that it's their holiday outfit what they do at wawa like i was like trying to picture like what store or like a public's i didn't understand the yellow tops um this is really embarrassing i was gonna say i just we just decluttered a bunch of stuff and we ended up um uh playing a bunch of like games yesterday which you know i fucking love yeah you and your games it's like only my dream but okay it was what do you mean a bunch of game like while you were cleaning so we like that doesn't sound fun i want to put that on the record i i agree allison and i were um trying to be more intentional with our time together and we couldn't come up with anything except playing games and i was like this is we have to have more fun than this please we ended up saying like we'll just play a game and just see where it takes us it turned into the game being us decluttering our games oh oh that was the game oh sure sure we played uh we played uh basically oh the game was that we were all the games we were thinking about decluttering we decided to play one last time to see if we really wanted to keep them or not and so it was fun yeah it does sound like a riot of a time it you know it's just like that's what you do on the weekends and you're yeah i was gonna say was that saturday night it was a sunday night uh okay at least there's that we ended up getting rid of like half of our stuff which that's got to feel good though that part felt really good and we played them to test them to make sure but like uh we ended up finding all of our cards like we have so many fucking decks of cards and decks of tarot cards and i i thought we only had like two or three and i have fucking like seven or eight decks of tarot cards um but it that was gonna be the my question of the day for you not that i need one but i as i was doing it i was like i wonder how many christine has because she's really into tarot how many decks do you have well um man i don't know i don't know if you did like like so if you had to baseball i'm forgetting the phrase more than i would have in the past because i actually finally got them all together and put them out so I'm trying to think probably I mean probably 15 20 do you have a favorite yeah just my my favorite is I think just the one my trusty old you know the one I got when I was 15 and like bought with my own money and like you know have have like studied like that one is my is my favorite one but then I just kind of go with the vibe I'm like which what's there's this new one that it's not even a new one someone named Kat apparently gave it to me and I use it sometimes in the TikTok readings I'm doing and the YouTube ones but um someone named Kat gave it to me and it's like the beloved ancestor deck and that one is so cool because it basically you can tap into like who which ancestor or like which ancestral energies you're working with and and so sometimes I'll be like called to do that on a reading and like pull somebody's creepy grandpa or like it'll say like drunk and I'm like oh somebody's like drunk uncles here to give you I don't know but so that one's really special because it feels very like spooky and it's like this Victorian like you know so whoever you are Kat apparently worked out of um because there's a note inside and it says and I found it in my closet so I've had it for years and it was like and I just pulled it out it said like uh I can't believe I get to see you at the venue where I work love Kat and I'm like I don't know what the venue that was for some reason it's giving me like Pacific Northwest vibes but it also could be New Hampshire I don't know so yeah whoever you are Kat thank you I've mentioned you like three times on YouTube because I keep saying thanks to Kat who gave this to me but anyway that one felt like it needed to come out so if anyone uh yeah it needs a a message from their grandfather I certainly don't um that's a good deck I mean sure no I um well I've I kept finding more pterodactyls and I was like how the do I have this money but one of them was um uh I mean they're mainly fandom ones like I've got like a Pokemon one I've got like a back to the future I have a Neopets one ow my ear that's the angels are like get the Neopets deck it's like I just watched it happen in real life yeah I don't know where those are I gotta find those Neopets has to be such a fun little deck I'm sure and I'm like I can't believe I didn't and I think Andrews McMeel our book publisher are the ones who published that and sent it to me crazy I know I gotta go get that um anyway I didn't mean to like put you on the spot there but I thought of you this weekend when we were organizing all of our tarot I was like can you imagine I have this many like can you imagine someone who's actively pursuing tarot well and I'm apparently remembering I have other ones that are just sort of stashed because I don't know where that Neopets one is but I do have it but also I I know I have like three other decks that aren't even in this pile which means I gotta go declutter other things to find those but yeah yeah um and these are ones I've like I've like curated mine like I feel like I've gotten rid of some that didn't Vibe with me or not really even gotten rid of but like gave them to people or like felt like these just I don't know yeah I think I've probably got a dozen or 15 something like that anyway why do you drink this week also look wait before you I ask you well after I ask you and before you tell me I got my little smoothie and it looks so fancy and look they match me again it's like your nails and everything uncanny oh my God well tell us what's in the smoothie I don't know uh superfoods they're gonna fix me I think today's the day today's finally the day um I had them put peanut butter on top of it interesting how do we you asked for that I did because I just want protein I'm like I can't eat food it's like so hard to eat food so I'm trying to but flavor wise like is that the closest thing I can compare it to is like maybe a PBJ for it to be peanut butter and fruit and it being tasty wait really yeah peanut butter in your smoothies no and like really ever since I was like five ever since I got my first hand crank blender ever since baby's first Vitamix Nutribullet yeah um no does it not taste like I mean I get like if it's like a banana one or something am I weird for putting peanut butter my smoothie I put peanut butter in every single like I don't think I've ever had a smoothie without peanut butter so when I get a smoothie I'm like put peanut butter in it and maybe that's what I'm allergic to am I having just anaphylactic hindering your own appetite my if the smoothie is like kiwi and mango you'd put peanut butter yeah but I don't eat that okay so you're only eating really like peanut butter friendly smoothies I don't with that yeah but like to me most smoothies are peanut butter friendly except maybe like totally tropical that's not me like smooth I guess my only smoothies I get are tropical okay maybe that's the kind of key difference we're having because mine are always like very like creamy based so like I see banana oh peanut butter uh superfoods Etc interesting yeah no I'm usually like tropical food and berries tropical and berries very I put a lot of berries but that goes with the peanut butter to me I don't know I that's interesting I always thought that was like one of the staple ingredients but again we've learned over and over again I'm I'm the weird one so I probably not because I'm thinking also like people put peanut butter in their oatmeal that's full of fruit me too so maybe we're onto something I mean maybe I just haven't given it a shot but in my in my mind I guess I mean I really only go for like a pina colada flavor so a peanut butter would be kind of crazy yeah that would be a little that would be something I would do there was a nutty yeah there was a friend of mine that used to always say oh remember when I met you in third grade and I was like stop telling that story we're like 25 but she'd be like when I met you in third grade you were sitting all by yourself I remember it so vividly too all by yourself in the lunchroom and by the way I was like this is the secret I wanted to be alone because I was like doing like a whole bit I get it yeah thank you and so but she was so sweet and so she came to sit with me and she's like I remember it was so sad because you're sitting by yourself and you were eating a blueberry bagel with peanut butter and she told this story for years and for years I was like I don't get it like what's so weird about that and then like one day I was like what is so why do you always tell that part and she's like because it's so weird and I was like it is I don't think that's super weird okay so now I'm like am I a peanut butter freak I guess whatever maybe that's why I'm always having anaphylactic shock okay fine I um are you happy now my is that still your go-to no you're that's not your go-to bagel anymore no apparently I ate it one time got shamed out of it and have been told ever since that this is a freaky thing I do so yeah and you know what all I wanted was to sit there in silence and like you know have a moment of like I'm the main character in my emo third grade play you know sure yeah I get it my go-to is always the strawberry cream cheese but I'm very picky I really want like the most processed strawberry like like I want Einstein's bagels strawberry cream cheese I cannot stand I love it when it's like about you you are like the opposite of like you're like so you're like snobby but in like the opposite way of like I'm snobby about being as like like low brow as possible you know my stepmother is this way sometimes where she'll be like don't give me that whipped like we'll go somewhere fancy I mean we would in the past like as when we were young we'd be so embarrassed because she'd be like don't give me any of that whipped butter crap like give me real butter from the container like you know very just like you don't mess around with some things I'm like I'm a creature of habit why would we anything up that needs right like you're like don't put bitters in my juice like just give me juice yeah like come on or like like um mac and cheese I'm like why on earth would you give me fancy mac and cheese like I know what I want yeah it's the point yes yeah like if you ever go to like Einstein's or out here I think it's Noah's Noah's bagels um which I think they're the same company just on different coasts I believe so as well but they have like the it's just it's just like strawberry cream cheese and it's not neon pink I don't know why but some of this strawberry cream cheese that they put out there in the world it's neon pink to let you know it's strawberry and it's actually it doesn't taste like anything except crap it's just not good um and I'm I'll stand by that proudly yeah I know and then there's other cream cheese where it's like it's just plain cream cheese but they've chopped up a bunch of strawberries and put it in there and then they call that strawberry cream cheese yeah I get horrified every time I go to a new bagel place and I all I want is just strawberry cream cheese take a moment do you know how many times even I've been to a new bagel place with Amethyst Schultz think about it on tour how many times have I been into a bagel shop I'm thinking now no wonder wow there's so much residual trauma here I'm thinking back now um yeah we've probably been to like 40 new bagel uh ins like I was about to say incidents like uh locations in together and you've probably had a psychic meltdown in every one of them I I learned where you just sat in the back of the seat and you were sad and I just remember being like M got really sad after that bagel place I it's because I really want one specific cream cheese and it's and I can never find it anywhere else everyone else puts their own spin on it and I'm sure like theirs is fancier and I were like oh this cream cheese is made of feta whipped up with garlic sprouts and then you're like I'd rather I literally like there's a um there was one place where we went where I was shocked because it was finally it was strawberry jam which was fine strawberry jam and they mixed it with honey butter and then it became like this whipped strawberry I remember your that was incredible profound reaction to that the profundity of that day strikes me actually in this moment it was especially special just to be safe I just go with a bacon egg and cheese because I'm like you can't that's the same across the board and even we know that's not true because we've really been into enough situations in our touring careers that like even that's not true and we know it unfortunately i guess that's why i drank because i'll i'm just unless i'm near a noah's or nine signs i'll never be happy in bigeland oh that's so tough for you yeah it's tough it is tough for me thank you thank you i hear you and i hold space um and i drink a my go-to although today tastes a little different i don't know what they did but it tastes a little different and not really a good way maybe they put some fuck-ass cream cheese in here i was about to say i bet you they put some peanut butter in there for you it actually kind of tastes like there's peanut butter in it which is very weird what is it fog it's a london fog oh i see i was gonna do a whole bit where whatever you said you were drinking i was gonna pretend like i've also put peanut butter on that and like be like no that is normal um but i really just couldn't help myself that's too ridiculous well um the other reason i drink is because last week i sounded like a full-blown uh man and with my voice and i was like it's so crazy i'm not even sick very next day i got like the summer flu and so yeah we tried to all hold out hope for you but why do you drink christine oh i don't know apparently i have a freaky relationship to peanut butter that i've got to evaluate yeah and um so thanks for that everybody uh not not that was not meant to be rude that sounded really rude thanks everyone fuck you all thanks for nothing dirtbags uh sorry now i'm now i'm now i'm now i'm you're regulated okay we're back to we're back to basics i just got it flamingo because in the shower you're like a flamingo holy christ whoa hang on surprise i get it now i totally we all did we all get it for the first time just now or are we the last two probably the last two let's not hear the answer to that let's pretend everybody's on the same page as us you know uh speaking of flamingo we were just clean we're we've got company coming this week and so we have been um slowly getting through things decluttering the baskets and all that and we have now decluttered our shower which was just like there was just bottles all over the place one thing we're keeping in there is that flamingo shaving cream that is it really is nice it's really nice keeps you nice and smooth slip and slide all over those legs oh my word really surely uh just like a flamingo wow i'm just i feel so like wow i feel so wise uh okay the whole kit don't even worry about it is just seven dollars and it has a shower holder for a limited time our listeners can get the flamingo starter set for only seven dollars at shopflamingo.com drink this set includes the flamingo original razor one five blade cartridge a one ounce foaming shave gel you gotta try it and a shower holder just head to shopflamingo.com drink to claim this offer and after you purchase they'll ask where you heard about them so please support our show and tell them that we sent you i uh okay well i have uh a story for you oh thank god and it is the it's in australia and it's in melbourne and it's in uh well it's specific it's in victoria and it's in melbourne which is in victoria melbourne victoria australia got it okay this is the princess theater and it is a 1450 seat theater and home to pretty much every show that comes to town it's like the place we're talking like theater plays the theater theater plays okay uh it is the oldest entertainment venue on mainland australia it is on the national trust of australia and it is uh on the on the in the victorian heritage register ooh la la which i'm assuming those are like the national history yeah yeah you know you know those things that we also don't know the word for in my mind i was like i say it every time for american places so i feel like i should say national historic registry i think register register national why can't i remember it i've said it a thousand times i can't remember it at all national landmark historical landmark whatever i've left i left a long time it's like my head fell off yeah it's i i feel like i should have told you my head fell off too a while ago and i forgot it's like our heads rolled off became tumbleweeds in different deserts but found each other and clunked into each other holy shit where did you come from i have no clue yeah same i'm so so glad we're on the same page i feel i feel how you feel i imagine you know what i'm saying i can only imagine and it's so scary isn't it it's horrifying okay so princess theater let's talk 1850s let's talk logistics 1850 1850s to the 1870s um victoria has itself a little gold rush we have talked about our gold rush way too many ad nauseum um indeed yes and basically with this gold rush i mean it was a 20 year long gold rush it was very uh popular in town people were coming in it was bringing a lot of wealth and uh it actually deemed victoria this new title of marvelous melbourne so i guess specifically in the melbourne area but um it became known as marvelous melbourne because it was just popping off that much with gold and this is a fun fact for you the mines brought in at that time about 42 million pounds of gold which equates to 21 000 tons sure yeah that makes more sense for me thanks if yeah if you also just don't pay attention to the our metric system it is around two million kilograms of gold yeah this is helpful thank you for the formula i you know just in case anyone know can even relate to any of those numbers oh i've held that much gold before i know how heavy that is yeah oh i'm worth that weight in gold that's oh wait i have that downstairs in the in the basement you just need a mirror and a good attitude oh wow plus a stunning whatever you just said was really enlightening illuminating thank you okay so you just vomited sorry never mind about the compliment i gave you okay a shitload came through uh the melbourne area and basically with so much bustle in the area for once we're not talking about a hotel but a venue decided to get built because they're like well so many people are in town i bet we decided to get different shows what's that you said the venue decided to get built the venue did decide she talked to herself she had a mirror and a good attitude and she said we're gonna do this it's like the god spark you know like oh i just want to see my own creation it's like the big bag just we all you need is a mirror and a good attitude and you're just fucking rock and roll baby oh my god okay so the venue decided to get built obviously hell yeah hell yeah but they were like so many people are coming through i bet we could sell a lot of tickets to a lot of shows so let's let's build something and they ended up creating this uh it was like a barn like a theater out of a barn or it was barn shaped it was kind of a little um not the its finest form a little rustic yeah yeah uh and it was called astley's amphitheater oh and it actually i i can't tell if this was like a franchise but there was also an astley's amphitheater in london i'm assuming they're the same thing and they just went oh well let's have an australian one it feels like that could very well be just two people named that yeah i don't know maybe i don't know uh i'm sure i could have found out i did not spend enough time looking that up but great uh at this one they were holding horse shows acrobat shows very circus vibes they also had a stage for vaudeville um and it opened up a lot of shows and they had a lot of in 1854 but then three years later the building was completely redone i think they realized that this barn was not doing much and it reopened as the princess's theater and opera house oh nice and this by the way is the first of many closings renovatings reopenings of this place okay okay okay we're doing like rebrands over and over over and over like i eventually i just got i couldn't even keep up with that i was like it's like every 10 years we're just yeah reopening this thing but this is the first time it's called the princess theater it's redone again only 20 years later and then it's called the new princess theater it's redone again another 10 20 years later uh but this time it is being it or it's it's purchased and owned by this partnership called the triumvirate whoa and apparently they were super controversial at the time um because they were like they were like they were like trying to get into the arts but kind of for evil where like they wanted to just capitalize on entertainment but they didn't really care about like the actors or the artists or were thinking about like local artists they were just bringing in like famous names and then other people were losing their jobs because of it that were in the area they kind of were like the first real like i get master i guess so kind of like it was like a big touring company where they had certain names that they had contracts with i mean right so yeah yeah i can get that oh my battery is dying of my camera hold on fun oh there she goes sorry oh it's like she knew she had five seconds left to live okay the tri the triumvirate yeah jesus christ this dog the triumvirate triumvirate is it mail time i have no clue okay smoothies already arrived so what else could be maybe it's my food sensitivity test maybe can you imagine okay it's usually geo's dog food and i'm like that's for you idiot i get so mad oh my god the triumvirate yes they're super controversial they did not have a passion for drama they were just in it for the money so they were they bought this theater and they're like we could do something real crazy with this they were able to bring in a whole bunch of different types of acts so not just vaudeville not just horse shows uh and they decided boo they decided they were just going to start fresh demolish the entire building and rebuild it it's now called the princess theater it was originally it was last called the new princess theater this time it was designed by a guy named william pitt who was a huge architect of the time i think especially when it came to building theaters um one thing he did with the princess this is actually just about the coolest thing i ever did here he made the world's first theater to have a retractable roof oh so like it could be an amphitheater yeah so like during even just like plays if it was a good night out they would just open the roof so you had an open air show was this like hand crank you know i don't know but it was like in the early 1900s so it has to be some mule crank maybe some poor man's a pa up there just with a rope that sounds right yeah um but so i thought that was super cool i think it still exists i think the roof is still retractable today wow the roof is still retractable with a rope and a legend has it she still opens at night still unpaid unpaid interns still there by 1915 there's like a whole other bunch of ownership changes very quickly that i'm not even gonna bore you with and by the 1930s uh it's bought by a film production company so the this is a fun fact i guess if if you happen to be at this theater i guess there's an arch in the lobby and if you look up there's initials ft carved into the arch and that was the owner of the film company who bought the place he was like i'm putting my goddamn name here because so many people right here where the mistletoe hangs it's what yes that's exactly that was the full quote actually yeah that's what i thought and then they really cut it could they cut off his romantic part but in 1946 it switches again but now it's hosting operas ballets musicals comedy drama so right around this time is the 1940s so coming up that's when it becomes a catch-all for any sort of entertainment is done here okay um in the 80s it's changed again this time though it is brought to it's what it currently looks like they decided that they were going to renovate it back to like it's 1920s glamour old hollywood or old vaudeville vibe um so in the 80s they made it look like how it did in the 20s and one of the last big reopenings they their second show that came out this was in 1989 you don't have to remember any of this i'm just throwing a bunch of fun facts to you before i tell you i've got it all memorized okay 1989 this is actually i think one of the last fun facts i have for you but they're during one of their last big reopenings it was in 89 and the first show after that reopening was les mis after that was phantom and when phantom of the opera came out uh in the cedar it became uh the longest running show ever really yeah uh it's got a good song which you know it's crazy i don't really care for phantom of the opera i don't know what you know it's crazy i've never seen it okay it's i i want to it's not that i did it on purpose it's just like and then for a while in the 90s every time somebody said oh christine like phantom of the opera and the picture used to scare me because i was a big big baby and so i'd always just like be so weird about it and um yeah i never saw it but i'm like i don't know i'm like oh they have a song about me in that show i i guess in um the 80s maybe it was incredible i think it was a big like our parents were really into a generation like they were into it i guess so i it's i think wicked ruined a lot for me you know what i'm saying yeah yeah yeah yeah kind of set the bar yeah yeah i got it but so it was uh it lasted for two and a half years at the theater and then the only other time that there was an incredibly long running show i think it actually has probably beaten phantom now uh was in 2018 the you know harry potter had a broadway show yes okay so harry potter and the cursed child that came to the theater this is fucking bananagrams the theater i guess it was the third place to ever host the harry potter show it was like new york and then london and then this theater and they spent because they had it wasn't just decorating the stage and paying the cast and all that they have to like redo the entire theater so everything was harry potter in there like they had to redo the wallpaper the carpet they oh my word so they really leaned in it like they made the building look like hogwarts basically um and had to like take away from its 1920s look make it look like harry potter and then they had to re-renovate everything back when the show left jesus um but they spent 6.5 million dollars on just renovating itself to host harry potter um this includes and this is a quote from a newspaper article custom hogwarts themed carpets wallpaper light fixtures and uh they had to restore it to the 19th century detailing they had gilded statues for each of the hogwarts houses they had new scaffolding on the front of the building um everything was done harry potter so it was or it's still the most successful show that's ever played in australia almost half a million that would have been really awkward otherwise almost half a million people went to that theater to watch it and then covid showed up so then they had to go on hiatus for a year and then they had to go on hiatus for a year and then they had to go on hiatus for a year and then it came back and harry potter still played through 2023 well we still have all the decorations up we might as well fucking do that again i know they were like well i guess we're just gonna keep moving wow okay so that's all the fun facts i have for you now i'm just gonna tell you about their resident ghost yeah i love it love it love it thank you for sticking with me through that sometimes i can't tell if people enjoy the history when it's just fun facts or if they want the full like story but there's really no like a story to a theater you know i mean there is and i feel like we got the story you know the story is that it changed a lot of hands yeah um it all began with rick astley i think is where we started that's exactly right yeah i don't know if rick astley had an amphitheater that'd be sounds like he might have didn't he i never thought i'd be like a person because i'm so like chaotic to have like a capsule wardrobe but now with quince it's like oh fall is coming let me get out my fall wardrobe i okay i'm so glad we're talking about quince because i really like it i'm so glad we're talking about quince because i recently i had to buy more because i'm obsessed with these right now i got these um bath sheets they're terry cloth they're waffle print they're turkish heck and oh well i'll say less they are so comfy and i you know there's nothing i love more than after a shower just being like oh yeah wearing a towel like a scarf around my whole body totally you got to be like enrobed in something it's so nice so if you're looking for something to get from quince oh my you save 57 see this is what they do and then they tell you the brands that like you're comparing to and so then you're getting 50 to 80 percent lower prices than similar brands and you get to see it right in front of your very eyes um plus they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen this isn't like fast fashion i'm talking capsule wardrobe turkish towels listen it's just the best of the best for less that's not a phrase and that they use but i made it up so here you go it's incredible upgrade your everyday download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com drink and you can get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in canada and the uk too that's q-u-i-n-c-e.com drink well this theater uh is known for its ghost named uh he his birth name was frederick demidoff anatole no hang on sorry i don't know if that person introduced themselves i'd spit my drink out like if i were that's so rude of me i'm so sorry anatole frederick demidoff baker don't say that like demidoff don't be ridiculous i'm talking to that person not you and he goes by frederici yeah sure sure sure he does he was born in 1850 which is the year that the gold rush began and the i guess and the theater was about to get built uh he was born in italy he's a famous opera singer and he was in many successful musicals uh that went on to be big award winners and in the uh it was 1880s he joined the triumvirate tory company oh boy and so they brought him to australia he was going to perform at a bunch of different spots eventually one of them would be the princess theater and he was cast in a show called faust do you know about faust okay do you know enough about it to give a summary or you want me to say it real quick uh you go right ahead my my mother might hear this okay great it's the very very quick version is that there's a guy who's selling his soul to the world and he's the one who's selling his soul to the world and he's the one the devil um and frederici played the devil wow i'm making it as quick as possible but the main characters are the guy the devil and the guy that the devil is taking the soul of yes the devil's name is uh mephistopheles of course can you imagine if he was like i'm actually my name is anatole frederick demi goff demi doff baker but i go by mephistopheles it's a nightmare it's a nightmare well so okay so he's playing uh mephistopheles the devil and during the play the devil takes the man's soul and the two of them descend into hell together and they basically the way that the show is put out is that the devil links arms with the guy who just sold his soul or like wraps a scarf around the two of them in some way they're bound as one and then they're standing on a slow moving trap door that descends them down into hell and there's like fire and lights everywhere on the stage big deal um well so on opening night of faust oh my god i have a bad feeling about this in 1888 it's opening night and as the trap door slowly dropped them the audience noticed that federici playing the devil he kind of slumped over for a second and like caught himself on the trap door and what they didn't know was that they thought it was just an artistic choice but federici was actually having a heart attack oh i was gonna guess that oh no and he was struggling as soon as the trap door got down to the bottom of the stage down in the basement he was carried to the green room a doctor was called they tried resuscitating him but he died while the show was still going on and none of the cast upstairs knew and drama lucky quote for him that was his last scene of the show so like no it's not like they waited for like he'd lost he missed his cue or something well the show must go on if you're gonna have a heart attack you better wait till your fucking yeah last line say your last line and then we can be sick i mean it really is an artist he you know and let's put it this way because you're onto something here apparently his ghost also believed in the show must go on because many people in the cast truly didn't think anything was wrong especially when during curtain call he was up there with them bowing shut the fuck up yeah so people were like what do you mean he's dead he was just he just bowed he just bowed his bow like everyone remembers him being on stage that's fucking crazy i love that his ghost was like okay god i see the white light but like let me have this moment like i know like hold on one second longer also like i love that he died playing the devil like it's really about that it's really something and i you know god that's beautiful there's something about it wow i just something something about it i love that he died playing the devil like it's really something about that it so uh ever since uh federici has haunted the theater and i guess people have noticed that lights during performances even if they've tested them a million times during rehearsal they'll always glitch during a performance i wonder like what time that's at because maybe it's like the moment he died or maybe it's uh i wonder if there's something there yeah the heart attack yeah oh people have seen him gliding past the stairs they felt uh him i love that he started gliding in his afterlife he's like if i'm gonna stay in this fucking theater might as well have built in like gliding powers use my feet yeah what the fuck do you think i am yeah um people have felt him brushing past them they've seen him like next to a bunch of boxes and he is like kind of shuffling around uh people which i love that he's just shuffling he's either got gliding or shuffling it's it's one or the other yeah people have felt something touch their back people have felt their shoulders get touched people have felt their hair get played with uh he's been seen sitting in the dress circle which um in theaters that's like the that's my favorite spot to sit um it's the front row of the mezzanine or like the very first balcony oh okay the very first it's orchestras on the floor or the pit and then the pit is in like the center and then there's a mezzanine and then there's the balcony um the mezzanine the front center that is where people see him now um if i died in a theater that's also where you would see me because it's the best in my opinion yeah some people are like i want to be right up but i want them spitting on me and i'm like okay i don't want that no no um but i guess what's funny about this is he's seen during rehearsals but some people have claimed that they see him like so dramatically reacting to their performances when he's unhappy like they'll see him like brushing hair out of his face and he's like super impatient and he's like taking notes i guess he's like he's like doing he's like making motions that suggest that he's like critically judging them which is like and in the best seat in the house too so it's like oh man like he's got a perfect view of us sucking right now shit and like you better you better be perform well under pressure because at that point like the pressure's on i know yeah um and so now actually the seat that they always see him in on opening nights they'll reserve it for him as like a nice uh for good luck and people also see him on stage uh i don't know if this is during performances but they'll see him on stage or walking in the aisles and apparently he's like dressed to the nine so maybe he does know like on opening nights i'm supposed to look my best or i mean clearly he knows on one uh one firefighter this was not during an actual show but while the theater was open i guess an alarm went off and a firefighter was trying to turn it off it wasn't working and so he tried to open a to let the smoke out or to see if that would turn the smoke alarm off in my mind he should have just opened the whole roof with the big crank yeah but i guess he like freaked out because while he was doing that he saw a tall dark shadow of a man on stage with the eyes of a cat mustafalis holy shit or like the jellicle cats i don't know that's what i mean isn't that a name of a character in fucking cats or am i dreaming is it i haven't seen cats in so long i've never seen cats either and i've never seen in my life that it would be funny if it was just a jellicle cat and it was just makeup yeah look it up look it up also are there two major plays mr mustafalis but it's spelled like ridiculous you know and the original mustafalis is like with like the ph and okay isn't that funny that there are two characters named mustafalis and he's i think i mean i think it's like an homage to the yeah oh it's an homage to the the guy from phantom i think because the first to the original character from folk german folklore because yeah mustafalis the miss the cat is spelled like with f's and e's and in almost like a comical way but that is like what are the odds though that he played mustafalis and died and now he looks like a different mustafalis he's probably like yeah i get that one too just because i died before cats doesn't mean i don't get to like embody that wearing the contacts you know so i didn't even put that together but that's so weird oh that's extra weird creepy the fact that it was cat eye but i tell you what that's he's probably just testing out the contacts he's like uh yeah you're right and he likes to play on word he's like i could be any mustafalis i want you never know theater um that's funny i didn't even put that together christine i've never seen any of these plays well never seen faust never seen cats never seen well my lights just flickered no shit uh never seen um phantom of the opera so what can i do except spout bullshit this guy's clearly a theater lover and he's like you haven't seen any of my shows um so he sorry this firefighter left freaking out he was like i just saw a tall man he's got the eyes of a cat um a jellicle cat it's only now hitting me that's very funny uh but they have said the i guess the manager of the theater he said that uh federici this is a quote is very much a presence nothing nasty ever happens he's more of a friendly poltergeist so i guess okay i think friendly and poltergeist are silly words to put next to each other gonna say especially when we're talking german devil folklore like in the mix i start to get a little iffy on like can you give me a little more clarity on what those words mean to you it's like yeah because like yeah poltergeist to me is something and to you it's clearly something else also in the world of semantics noisy ghosts like you mentioned a noisy ghost in a theater where you have to be quiet also a german folklore i don't love all this you know and you know it comes from german folklore only bad things like only bad shit only like cutting off the thumbs and like eating people children and it's just like mess it's just a mess the germans are their own breed it seems that's uh we're like just it's just a traumatic thing happening over there yeah uh investigators have come here to look for because they are really hoping that they'll catch them yeah uh there was a whole bunch of videos online there was a whole bunch of videos um and fun fact the restaurant in the building is named federici after him as well oh that's i bet he loves that i would love it if when i die there's a restaurant named after me oh my god yeah but you'd be so you'd be like they put strawberries in the whipped cream and they're chopped up and this is not you're right you'd they'd find it on the ground every day and they'd have to call in a psychic to be like they don't like the ghost doesn't like this cream and they're chopped up and this is not gonna you'd they'd find it on the cream cheese. I feel like they should have, there should be a restaurant out there. This is such a bad business practice, but I feel like there should be. I was going to say this is already a terrible idea, but I can't wait to hear it. A restaurant named after someone who's like the ghost of the building. And you use either dowsing rods or a Ouija board or you go ghost hunting first and have them make the menu. So that way you know that you're pleasing them. Right. So either demons or a bunch of children or Victorian dead people are going to be telling you what to eat. I'm sure it'll be delicious. Could be anything. I don't know. I would love, I would love if someone came to where I used to be. And then they gave me an option and said, what food should we offer this or that? I'm sure you would. Oh, my God. I'm sure you would want me to touch your skeleton while we're at it, too. So I do not. And I'd have a good time, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's the Princess Theater. Very good. I got to close out of my Mephistopheles. I'm going to look it up. Yeah, I was saying it wrong. Mephistopheles. It's like super fun times. Yeah. Yeah, my mom taught German literature or teaches German literature. And that's her PhD. So I try to avoid anything in that area to be in my kind of conscious arena, you know? It's safe. It's a safe call. It's a safer place without it, if you can imagine. Also, oh, that makes total sense. Mephisto. Oh, Mephisto is essentially the devil in Marvel comics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Mephistopheles is a demon featured in German folklore. So maybe I'll just cover Mephistopheles one day. I mean, there's a lot there. Mephistopheles, that's what it is. Yeah, the cat. Creepy. I don't know. Hey, which category are you overspending in? The categories are all of them. Every aspect of my life. Oh, all of them. Mine is surely in their takeout, probably. Or delivery, you know, it's a big one. 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It's like, what the fuck, you already, and then Em's like, well, we'd be in it together. And I'm like, do you not remember rule number one is never go in it with another person? I'm telling you. And then I say, memorize this sequence of numbers and Em goes, I just tried it, it didn't work. And I'm like, I didn't say, press them. And then five minutes later, I'm like, remember the sequence of numbers? And you're like, nope. Oh my God, we're going to die. You owe me, okay? Let's put it that way. Do you remember every investigation we ever went on where the one rule was don't bring alcohol? And you went, huh? Okay. And then you just brought a bra of wine or you would just shatter glasses everywhere. Do you remember when I coerced you into doing a Ouija board 13 times? And that was also my fault. So, you know what? So, maybe I am the problem. Elevator time. Maybe I got to get on this fucking elevator to hell. Yeah, you know, we talked about how it's an elevator like from Faust, he's going to hell and apparently some people call that game the elevator to hell. Anyway, I hated every second of it. Thank you. And now, I'm going to get back to an even worse reality, which is the story I'm telling today. Perfect. Yeah, that's a good segue. Uh, here we go. So, the story I have for you today are the murders of Chad Choice and J.C. Levasseur. We go all the way back to October of 1994 when 80-year-old James Clark, known as J.C. Levasseur, was spending the morning as he often did selling produce along Texas Highway 155. J.C. was retired and living in Berryville with his wife, Annie Bell. Very, like, picturesque Texan situation. And for a decade, basically what they did was grow fruits and vegetables and, like, shared with their neighbors and then, like, sold what was left over for. Cool. It's very Americana, very bartering. And, yeah. Totally. And just, like, hyper-local, you know? Yeah. So, love that for J.C. and Annie Bell. But on this early October morning, J.C. disappeared from his fruit stand. Hmm. Very quickly, his truck was discovered just down the road, abandoned, in the middle of the road. And pretty soon after that, a man discovered J.C.'s body in the woods just off the road where he had been shot to death. Oh, my God. Now, like, imagining this, right, like, Americana situation, it was a complete shock to the community. Yeah. J.C. was well-known and liked by his fellow, like, produce vendors, by his community, his neighbors, his customers. Yeah. It was just unimaginable why somebody would do this to this, like, kind, old, retired dude. Yeah, guys, it sounds like he's friends with everybody. Yes. And police quickly ruled out robbery as a motive as well because there was cash in his pocket and at the produce stand. So it's not like somebody held up the produce stand and then, you know, very strange, very strange. So soon, reports came in from witnesses who claimed to have seen two men attempting to leave in J.C.'s truck but struggling with the standard transmission and eventually bailing when the truck stalled out. So now they're thinking, well, maybe this was a failed carjacking. And they're trying to get his truck and he was killed over the dispute or what have you. So J.C. was survived by his wife, a daughter, brother, grandchildren, many friends in the community who were left reeling. So now we rewind a bit because years earlier, on October 13th, 1991, Karen Choice began her Sunday as she usually did. And these stories, if you can't guess, end up connecting. So just to be clear. Yes. But we're going to segue back to 1991, a couple years earlier. Karen Choice begins her Sunday as usual, has a cup of coffee, goes to service at the Christian Teaching Center, which is the church she attended in Tyler, Texas. The whole family was very rooted in their church community. Karen had studied faith-based counseling alongside her nurse administration degree in college and was a very involved member of the church. And this particular Sunday was a big deal because it was Karen's 41st birthday. So she decided she was going to go to church alone and celebrate with her friends while her kids slept in. So she left them at home that morning without waking anybody up. And during the service, she gets a phone call. One of her daughters calls the church to ask whether Chadwick was with Karen. An eight-year-old Chadwick who went by Chad was the youngest of Karen's four children. His older siblings had woken up that morning and had known their mom was at church, as expected, but then they realized Chad was not home with them. And they were like, well, that's weird. So Karen left church, immediately began searching the neighborhood for Chad alongside family, friends, and church goers. Everyone hoped that Chad had just like woken up and somehow wandered off without telling anyone. Did you, by the way, sorry, this is kind of a side note, but like this is such a fearful thing. Like, did you ever wake up at home and like nobody was there or like you couldn't find anybody? There was a few times I didn't, not waking up, but when I would, you know, come home from school and I thought my mom was going to come home and she came home way later. And I just assumed like a car crash or like, where is she? What is, there's like this primal fear, I feel like, like being home and like not knowing because I remember like viscerally one time waking up and it was like too late in the day. And I remember like nobody was home and I was like, I was supposed to be, I mean, it had like the, and what had happened was that the neighbor's house had like caught on fire overnight. Like there had been this like huge like event. And so, it was like something scary, but it was like, well, like everything got kind of, I don't know. It's a very unsettling feeling to like realize someone's just like vanished. It's definitely, it was definitely scary like as like a kid because like it was so rare that I wasn't next to one of my parents and when it did happen and it was unexpected, I like, it was so. Your brain just doesn't know where to land. Yeah. Out of sorts. Yeah. I was like, you're supposed to be here. Where are you? Yeah. Yeah. It's really unsettling. And so like this, and it's an eight year old, right? I mean, he's not, obviously it's, it's like, where would he go? It's not like a two year old where you say like, oh God, he wandered off. Not that it's better if it's a two year old or what happened, but just like the, the mindset of like, what would this eight year old be doing? So they're, they're looking around the neighborhood, but like, they're kind of like, we don't think if he's not around here in the neighborhood, we don't know where he would be unless something bad has happened, you know? She said he, like Chad, liked to play and could be mischievous, but like, It's not, he's not like, I mean, he's just a little kid. Like he's not going to be wandering a from home for any reason. Um, so Karen soon reported Chad missing to the police who visited the home. Um, they observed there was no sign of a forced entry or anything like that. And so, or robbery. And so they were like, Oh, well maybe he ran away. Right. Um, and of course she's like, I promise you he did not run away. Um, and she genuinely was like, I can't understand this, except that he's been kidnapped. Like somebody has taken him. There's no other explanation. Um, and so she's just like terrorized by this. Um, for two days, she remained within reach of the home phone at all times, just waiting, like hoping like probably frozen, right? Like hoping anybody will call. Um, but instead her brother, Greg Sterling, who owned a funerary business called Sterling mortuary, found a letter on the front step of the funeral home. And it was a ransom note from the kidnappers. Wow. Somehow they had taken Chad. From his home in the middle of the night days earlier without making a sound. And they were now demanding that $10,000 be left for them at a Greyhound bus station in exchange for Chad's release. They made it clear they would kill Chad if their demands were not met. And they also warned the family that they had a contact within the family who could tip them off about any police involvement. And that's fucking terrifying. Like also someone in your circle is a snitch and is going to tell us if you call the police, what the fuck? Totally. I don't trust anybody. Fucking mind games on top of everything else. The, and on such a sliver of the problem, but like the betrayal trauma or whatever to have like someone knows and, or somebody in our circle can't be trusted and has like potentially done harm. Yeah. And something really terrible. Knows that a kid is in danger. Facilitated. Yeah. And they're not going to do anything about it. And yeah. Oh my God. Ooh. I mean, it's chilling. Especially when you're someone who's like in a community, that's a whole. Point. I mean, both of these people actually, interestingly, it's like very much like community based stuff. Yikes. Okay. So anyway, um, Karen, of course now her mind's spinning, right? She's like, who the hell could, could it have been? Um, but investigators start to think like, well, maybe it's Greg, her brother, uh, the one who found the note on the mortuary or on the funerary steps. Um, so this would have been Karen. Karen's brother, Chad's uncle. And it seemed most likely, I mean, we know how this is like abductions and things are most often by somebody close to the family or close to the child who's gained some sort of trust with the child. Um, and so it made sense that somebody close to the family, like an uncle would have abducted Chad, um, because they could have taken him quietly without having to enter the home by force. So soon after the ransom note arrived, Karen received an anonymous phone call from someone. Who claimed Greg, her brother had been kidnapped to be extorted for a drug debt owed by a family member. Okay. So now the Tyler police department gets the FBI involved because they're like, this is getting very complicated. And Chad's case is aired on America's most wanted. So things are lighting up, but the leads just go nowhere. The FBI questioned Greg about his potential involvement. And he said, well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't involvement the uncle he denied it he offered to provide a briefcase full of cash for chad's release like okay guy thanks go off king i guess whatever um the fbi organized a sting operation at the greyhound station and greg himself delivered the ransom oh so okay sorry he did literally show up with briefcase i had forgotten that that actually happened as it was so literally explained in his his previous offer but also if we think it's if we think it's greg and he just brought ransom to his own stick up and like knew nobody was going to be there then it wasn't that much of a like a risk to put his own money out there true enough point yeah although then i don't know i'm thinking i'm thinking what town is this in uh tyler texas texas do we know the population like how big of a case was this for the locals i mean tyler i know tyler texas i think it's one of those like towns that's outside of a big town okay sure sure you know what i mean like medium-sized town yeah i think so i'm pretty sure okay oh it's known for its rose gardens that's right oh okay you know what roses have been stalking me and i almost almost brought it up in the intro because bring it up now roses roses i literally i know because it keeps haunting me and so every time i see a rose now and they're everywhere and like leona literally came back from the playground the other day and said look what a little girl gave me and it was like three roses and i was like oh my god i don't know what to do with that i don't know what to do with that like what like she said oh she didn't speak english but she just walked over and handed me these after we played in the sandbox and i was like that's so sweet but like everywhere these damn roses and then every time i hear roses roses that i fear that i'm creating this horrible loop of like my own reality is you're accidentally chanting a manifestation i know and it's it's it's harming me to the core of my being roses yeah so tyler texas is known for their rose i guess um is it but the population do we know that oh uh 105 the 38th most populous city in texas oh holy shit so it's huge okay so um yeah it seems pretty i mean everything in texas feels pretty big it's named after a president the 10th president of the u.s fun also a fun fact about john tyler is that do you know about you know like about his grandson no what's happening no oh john uh he like had a son at like 80 years old and then that son had a son at like 80 years old and so i know you were gonna do this to me so his grandson jeff like his he's like one of the earliest presidents and he had only two generations away from his grandson who just died in like 2020 or something i remember when that was like a news article and i remember my brain going we're not gonna comprehend this so no remain won't remain cognizant so his his great-grandson is alive right now that's crazy yeah alive and well living in tyler texas that's i hope so that'd be cool if you were in the town can you hear the stupid dog no i'm not gonna snitch on that beautiful baby yeah well i will he's running all over the place um that would be fun if you lived in a town named after your like great-grandpa yeah you'd be such a fucking annoying neighbor though you'd be like that guy and then like if he invites you everybody for dinner you'd be like we have to go like his great-grandpa like invented the town like we can't say no to a dinner party i like it would be so annoying you heard about the uh the town and stop saying you heard about because you know i have it and it's gonna it's gonna make my brain hurt what what now what now the town michigan uh the town hell in michigan oh yeah i mean i know about that because ohio loves to use that against them weaponize it oh it's it's like for sale for like uh it was very um under under it's i don't know what the right word is but it the the number was a lot lower and they knew people would like fight to pay to be the new mayor of hell michigan but they get to be the mayor is that how that works it's like a it's a very small town and the guy who like operates it he like he had like i'm not kidding he has an ice cream place called the screamery he has a mr mistoffelees is that his name because it feels like that he's actually a jellicle cat i mean honestly he might wear those fucking contacts there's a mini golf in hell michigan and he's like i don't know what the fuck michigan there's like it's a bunch it's like one main street of just a bunch of little stores that he operated and he's like ready to retire and give it to somebody else who wants to run like a tourist attraction and so like you get to be the mayor of hell and i i did think about it but i was like i don't know if i really want to live in michigan but if i if i was feeling thank you soundbite if i was feeling impulsive which i got you a good soundbite i um here's the thing imagine i'm the mayor of hell we all know i want to be the mayor or something be the mayor of hell where the main businesses there are mini golf and ice cream and then hank could be the hell hound please like are you kidding let's not be ridiculous like the ridiculous thing is that i didn't do it get michigan on the horn someone call hell scrub the part where m said they never want to move to michigan because hell is in michigan and by the way i don't want to move there because i love california because i hate michigan but scrub that part too because we might as blackmail i just know that i saw every everybody's um dms to me i did have a sit down with myself and think like i could do this i was like i could do this for sure one one of you was in a cape and one of you wasn't and you were both like all right let's talk this out and be reasonable i did think i was like that would be kind of a great business opportunity i feel like as a mess by the drink we should have bought it and like made it it's like m comes to me with a business opportunity i'm like what town are we buying we can't like you and i though we can't we can't do something normal like you know ever i was gonna i was gonna expect you to do something normal like you know i was gonna expect you to do something on that but you're right that's the end of the sentence but imagine and that's where i drank owns hell like come on is this is this another are you doing a sneaky thing is this like a sneaky thing like i already bought it yeah oh my god open your checkbook it's zero what's a checkbook nobody knows um i did think about it i did think about it on my soul that's a trick because if you haven't already then what are you doing are you listening to me I think they were just on their bad Wi-Fi and on their bad phones, and they just didn't even hear you. Oh, they had no reception. Oh, I've heard that one before. Right now, Mint Mobile has a summer sale. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. So free yourself from big wireless and their gimmicks and gotchas and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. Yes, and then you don't even have to worry about hearing me because you'll be on the train with us. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless, made it right. Premium wireless, $15 a month. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your phone and your number, which is super easy. They have three six- or 12-month plans, so you don't have to worry about that monthly bill. I think it's worth doing, folks, because we've told you and we're on the train, so are you coming or not? And to get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash ATWWD. That's mintmobile.com slash ATWWD. Cut your wireless bill to 50%. $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash ATWWD. There is no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 per month. Equivalent taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage vary. See mintmobile.com. Where are we now? Oh, God. Oh, Tyler, Texas. I was asking about the population because I wanted to know. If like this was, like if it was a very small town, everybody would know about this. But if it's that big of a town, I feel like it's kind of getting like under the radar. Like people are catching on. It's a pretty big town and it's, it got TV airtime. But even when the, I feel like the fact that the airtime on TV on America's Most Wanted, like national syndicated programming, that didn't get enough leads. Like that was already a rough start. Like, I agree. It's, it's a big deal, but it's not a big enough deal that it's creating enough frenzy around it to, to get an answer. So, yeah, the leads were slim. Greg shows up with the briefcase and drops it off. And investigators are waiting in hiding nearby. And of course, like the most dramatic thing ever, they're dressed as like, which I'm like, they're dressed as, they're disguised as like bus travelers, which I'm like. Yeah. If you have to put effort into disguising yourself as a bus traveler, I think you're already. It feels like a heist. This feels like a silly little quest all of a sudden. It feels like you're like, yeah, it feels like we don't, do we need to dress, like go in disguise? I mean, I guess maybe it's not quite as like, it sounds a little comical to me the way that it's presented in the, especially when you watch any sort of like episode about this and it's reenactment style. Sure. It's like, like an obvious costume or something. They're dressed, they put a mustache on. But an hour passed. Right. And nobody. Nobody shows up to collect the ransom. So they're very good disguises of being bus passengers went to waste. What a tragedy. So, of course, now they're like, yeah, well, Greg, clearly. You're like what you said, basically, if he were involved, like he would bring the money to prove he weren't involved. It's not really that great of an alibi. Yeah, it's like it's like I could say right now, like, oh, I'm I found a ransom note and don't pay attention to the fact that it's my handwriting. But it says that I should give myself. A hundred thousand dollars and it won't ever leave the bank account. Oh, no. Oh, it's so nice that I happen to have this briefcase from my from dealer. No deal. Right. And it's one of the people also in disguise for his own because it sounds like, oh, no, no, no, no. That would be criminal minds. Territory SVU territory. OK, because I was going to say that'd be so silly. He's like, and I know just the thing for myself to give myself money about the ransom letter I wrote myself. He's like, and this is my disguise. Oh, my God. I put in eye cat eye contacts and we're good to go. Nobody will. No one will ever know who I am. Not even me coming my own way. And literally literally. So, Greg, you know, immediately, Greg, nobody. You are literally stand out a mile away. So anyway, this Greg, they are. It's just horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible. They suspected that, like, somehow Greg is involved. Whether he actually did anything harmful himself or whether he was just somehow facilitating, like, the whoever was evading capture here. Or perhaps he was like the inside contact mentioned in that in the letter. But they couldn't prove it. Right. And so meanwhile, poor Karen is like dying. I mean, dying. Right. Of a broken heart. Like she says she can't breathe. And every time she thinks of Chad, which I can only imagine is every second. Every second. That feels like a thousand hours. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, she just can't breathe. She's gasping for air. And I mean, this goes weeks into months. So just like total turmoil for her. A year later, October 14th, 1992, Karen was leaving for work at 730 in the morning when she discovered a note on her car. This is also so cruel. This like waiting between long periods of time and then like coming back up. I mean, it's haunting. Yeah. She was terrified. But like, also, there's this like hope, right? Suddenly like, oh, a ransom note. Like, maybe this will finally give me my son back or at least answers. Part of the ransom note read, I guess you have suffered enough. Even though he misses you a lot, he will never see you again unless you cooperate with me. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. I mean, like, how do you not have a heart attack from the stress? I mean, I don't know how she's even going to work at this point. Right. Like, no, I just assume you don't. If you were. Well, you have to. Right. Like, if you're I mean, you've got bills to pay. At some point, you have to live life, which is, I think, probably the hardest part. Yeah. So now she's just totally rocked by this. The kidnappers are demanding six thousand dollars and no police involvement. And they wrote last time death came close upon your son because of your stupidity, because of police involvement, claiming, you know. A forensics review of the note failed to recover any prints or useful evidence. And that was like it for years. Like, basically, they were like, we don't know if this is a hoax. We don't know if this is like real, but we can't do anything to prove it. And that's it. So this woman is being just tortured. Right. Years pass and Chad's case goes cold. Karen, though, despite knowing the statistics about missing persons, really, truly believed that somehow she would get an answer before she died. October of 1995. Four years after his disappearance, a box was delivered to Chad's family. I don't even want to know what's in that box. I mean, you don't. I've seen I've seen law and order. The box never has a thank you note or something. No, it's never something good. No, no. Four years later. Part. It is. OK. It says there's a note that reads, you only paid part. So here is a part. Oh. What part? Ear, hand, finger. No. What? His skull. OK. There's nothing else to say except. OK. I mean, I'm sorry. That's just like. Uh huh. It's OK. Here. Here's also like this woman is literally in hell, like actual hell. And now this happens to her. And like the only hope. Like literally the only hope she has left is like. This couldn't possibly be my literal child's skull. Right. You have just full denial. You have to. How could you not? How could you believe that? You have to just pray. It's some. It's not. That's all you have to pray. And so they do DNA analysis. Do you think it can't worse? No, because it's inconclusive. And they're like, well, so we don't even. So now no answers. So now it's like you have this new hellish option on the table that you didn't even think was possible. Just a nebulous maybe. And then you'll never actually have closure. Even if it just gets worse. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I mean, it's and he'd been too young for like dental x-rays. So they couldn't even compare teeth. It's just like nightmare. So detectives involved Dr. Harold Jill King to examine the remains using forensic anthropology. And finally, like this is the forensic files like, you know. Spotlight computer models, photos of Chad. We're able to kind of use. Because this was such early days right of DNA testing, they weren't able to do that quite as well, but they were able to use like forensic models and determine that it unfortunately was, in fact, Karen's eight year old son. So that came back conclusive. And with that closure, I want to say, like, with that partial or with that answer, I should say, Karen. Like her devastation turned into like rape. Of course. Of course. And no one would blame her. Right. No, no. I mean, it's just. Yeah. But now there's like this certainty that Chad is gone. But also like now months pass and there's no and there's this rage, but no where to direct it. Right. Because you're still like, who did this? We don't. Also, there is the, you know, my first thought when I asked, like, was it like what kind of body part? Was it? Because it's like at least at least, which is like I'm saying that's so spirits. So, you know, take it, take it how you assume I mean the best, but at least he's gone and not suffering somewhere or being tortured somewhere, but you don't even know if he was being tortured beforehand. So my guess is that he was probably killed pretty immediately. It feels like with this kind of thing, um, I would still be so my part of the rage would be me still not knowing how much he suffered or endured beforehand and not having answers to like what, what happened, what he was going through. I mean, yeah, it's all, yes, it's just bizarrely a nightmare that like, she just cannot wake from. Oh my God. Um, yeah. And she's just like, I mean, to taunt somebody, it just feels so absurd that you would even be doing this. Um, especially seemingly for like no reason, like who had a vendetta at all that even though this is so unwarranted, but like who thought that she deserved this and why woman, right? Exactly. It's, it's just horrifying. Um, so months pass again. And in the meantime, police had made arrests in a completely, or at least seemingly unrelated case, two armed robberies of a Texas credit union that took place in the spring of 96. And when they found out they had been caught on surveillance cameras, which were installed after the first robbery, Chris Wells and Jean Lindsay confessed to committing the robberies. Um, and then Chris named Patrick Pat Horn as the organizer. Like the head honcho of both robberies. So Jean offered more information in hope of bargaining a better outcome for himself. And he described having some info on Pat, their like leader. And he said, Pat had murdered this 80 year old man named JC Levasseur in a failed car jacking at his fruit stand. Okay. So you remember that first story? Jean told police that JC, who he only knew as the old man had shown them how to drive the truck, which is how it ended up down the road. Okay. And afterward, according to Jean, Pat made JC exit the truck. Jean told Pat to let JC go, but Pat said JC had seen their faces and wouldn't be allowed, couldn't be allowed to live and was killed. Jean insisted JC would not be trouble for them and they let him go, but Pat wouldn't back down. This is at least how he's explaining this to the cops when he's like ratting out his boss guy, knowing they would not be letting him go. JC tried to run and Pat shot him in the back of the head. And so now he's telling police, this is like a bargain. Chip, right? Pat would eventually be convicted for the robberies and JC's murder. But after being arrested for both crimes, he then tried to leverage information he had about a crime. So Pat says he has information on Chadwick's murder and kidnapping and murder. And this intrigues police because he is actually very close with the family. So. Oh, shit. There you go. Okay. Karen had known Pat since he was. Five years old. He used to come to her house to play with her kids. He was actually just 17 when Chad disappeared. And so I don't think he was even on the on her radar at this point. Pat told investigators he had witnessed Chad's murder committed by two local drug dealer. So horrifying. Local drug dealers, Luis Carlos Castillo and Silvio Ulloa Castaneda. And I guess they were referred to as Carlos and Paco. And Pat said he had been forced to dig Chad's grave. This is the information. And that he's giving to police as like more bargaining. Investigators initially received alibis for both of these men, Carlos and Paco. And they considered that maybe Pat was lying and he actually didn't know anything about the case. And it had invented this story until a package mailed to Pat in jail was intercepted where he was incarcerated. And inside was a child's leg bone and a letter threatening Pat against sharing any further information. About Chad's case and they send it to jail and think like no one's going to notice this. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Bizarro. In desperation to know what happened to her son and like wanting the rest of his remains, Karen met with Pat during an interrogation and in the footage of the interrogation, she said, I treated you like you were my son, like he would come over and play at their house. Wow. Always welcome in my house, fed you, prayed for you. What about Chad? Do you want to see a picture to remind you? Don't you want to see? See his picture? I need to know, Pat. I need to know. And when Pat sat still and said nothing, Karen got on her knees in front of him, put her hands on his shoulders and began to beg. Yeah, she said, Pat, Pat, I've got to know. Oh, my God. And oh, my God, it makes me sick to my stomach. Pat stood up and began pacing, cursing and sobbing, but refused to say anything. Oh, my God. Tell her. Days later, he told investigators that Carlos and Paco made him bury Chad in his own backyard. Oh, my God. And in May of 96, he led them to the grave. And in a later interview, Karen said all the years of hoping that he'd come home at that very moment, you know, it was over. And that was like the closure, the tragic closure, like not the closure she wanted, you know. So Pat's brother, Keith, Keith, and I don't even I've never heard that name. Keith and was in jail elsewhere on a probation violation. And investigators on Chad's case spoke to him. He went by Keith, who confessed that Carlos and Paco had never threatened Pat at all. In fact, Pat had convinced Keith to deliver Chad's remains to both Chad's family and Pat's jail address. And Pat told Keith to write the letters as well. That was the thing, too, for me was like, why would this like we were saying that to like, why is this person who's taunting this woman? It's clearly personal. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Investigators finally concluded that it was Pat Horn himself. Who had kidnapped and murdered eight year old Chad Choice. And all of this is just like. He had made up this sort of. Drugs, drug story to like cover up the fact that he had done this. To like a little boy. OK, so in autumn of 1999. Eight years since Chad had been kidnapped from his bed, Pat Horn was convicted for Chad's murder. And sentenced to death. Karen found no sense of peace in the sentencing. She said, I have to say, and a lot of people don't agree with me. I basically don't believe in the death penalty. Pat Horn's death is not going to bring Chad back. I would like for him to close his eyes and see Chad's face, you know, and realize not only did he take my baby's life, you know, but his is over as far as anything he could do successfully. Maybe we'll give him time to think about the havoc and the hurt that he has torn through this family. Wow. And ultimately, his sentence was altered to life in prison because he had been under the age of 18 when the crime had occurred. There was like an it was ruled unconstitutional to execute anyone who had committed a murder under the age of 18. So still, you know, didn't bring Chad home. His remains were used as evidence in Pat's conviction and Pat's defense team could request access to Chad's remains again in the future if they needed to, which also is just like an extra slap. In the face that they just like have access, easy access for their own case. Like, it's just kind of sick. Oh, my God. Due to legal technicalities, Chad's remains, which they call the evidence, cannot be released unless Pat signs a waiver. So like, oh, that's evil. Isn't that diabolical? Pat had signed the waiver, but it got lost by his somewhere between the attorney and the judge. The letter got lost, wouldn't you know? Hmm. Uh, Pat needs to sign a new waiver if he wants it to happen. Sounds like he was talked out of it because he now staunchly refuses to do so. I'm sure his lawyers wouldn't were not happy with the first time he did that. Um, for more than a month, he refused to speak with anyone regarding the waiver. And the assistant district attorney said, we have found ourselves in a very, very strange position because now they're like, where's the letter? Like, he claims he signed it somewhere. It got lost. Where is it? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Uh, but yeah, he just. He just refused to say anything or sign another one. Um, so Chad choice was finally, finally laid to rest in a family cemetery plot in 2003, more than a decade after his kidnapping, which like you'd think he'd be 18. Like, that's just crazy. Wow. Um, Karen and pastor Flora Cobb worked together with the congregation at Christian teaching center to operate a new ministry called C H A D churches hour against darkness. And they run a shelter called Chad's house, um, which takes in people and Christians. And that includes things like people experiencing homelessness, sexual trauma, substance use disorders, financial hardships, domestic violence, um, other people in need. And in 2007, Karen was still the director at Chad's house when she unexpectedly died at the age of just 56. Wow. Um, but years later in 2022, Chad's family announced they once again plan to support their community and Chad's memory. Um, they did kind of like, um, like an event, like, uh, a memorial event. Um, so they did a memorial event on his 30, what would have been his 39th birthday. His older sister, Angela spoke with ABC East Texas, um, about a new foundation that was going to help support children's hobbies. And she said that Chad loved sports and playing outside and their mother would have wanted Chad to be able to try any sport in the world that he wanted to try and find out what he loved. Um, so the cost of participating in all of these things is so astronomical sometimes, especially like when you think of the. the gear, the transportation, all that stuff. It's prohibitive to so many families. Um, so the Chad choice family foundation would work with families to make their children's like extracurricular dreams possible, which is very cool. Yeah. So that's like a really cool outreach program or like, you know, program that they're creating. Angela felt a responsibility to show support to families in crisis as well. The way, um, hers was when they lost Chad to offer like that same sense of community of people who felt like that shock wave go through their family. Um, she said, I felt that our families needed to show a unified front because there are other families that have gone through a tragic situation like ours. And even more so from 1991 up to this very day, if we don't share and give back the way our ancestors taught his losses in vain and Chad's life is not in vain. Uh, it's just like, what the hell? That's so sad. Yeah. It's just horrible. But I'm, I mean, Whoa. Yeah. I had to whip out the sensory toys for that one. Oh yeah. That was a tough one. I apologize. That was like a very, yeah, that was a very, uh, just very devastating. It is. And, um, yeah, there's, that's about it. Well, anything, uh, you're doing later today? Um, well, Leona has little Jim, so, you know, I'm gonna, uh, maybe take a quick nap before that, uh, little hell beast is released upon me, you know, whole piece is good. That's a good one. Um, I'm going to go see the odyssey. Oh, fun. Uh, I don't know how I'm only, I'm only seeing it because of the hype. I don't think I would actually really confidently say I'll never see it cause I already know I'm missing my window to see it. I'll never watch it. Um, but I love the memes. So yeah, keep me posted. Good. I, I read it in like seventh grade. I think I had way too many nerds ropes to actually be paying attention when it was, when we read it, but I can just sense that my high school teacher, my middle school teacher, like signed off on getting everyone some sort of like field trip to go see the movie. It's true. They're so excited. The Latin clubs. It's like, uh, cause I'm sure she else did that with like Beowulf and all that. Oh my God. Oh yeah. Beowulf. I forgot. Oh God. Okay. You're true. Anyway. Um, I must disembark. You'll only get that if you listen to the. Yes. Okay. Well I will, I'll, I'll, we'll see you next week with a even more sadness. I'm sure. So, and that's why we drink. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's wholesale club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices, beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods. Even they can't screw up. Have you met my kids? And with BJ's gas, it's there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home road warrior. Mom home of the save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only BJ's home of the save. Welcome back. Freaking frack. Welcome to the jungle. ABC Wednesdays. Abbott is back. It's going to be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn this up. And everyone's going wild. Y'all think you run this school, but you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle, right guys? All new Wednesdays on ABC and stream next day on Hulu.