E492 Peanut Butter Relationships and Bagel Traumas

I planned on doing this with hank by my side as my little co-host today, but he decided that eating a carrot was more important. We would like to thank EmbarkVet.com for supporting and that's why we drink. If you go to EmbarkVet.com, you can save $10 on the breed and health test and get free shipping with promo code drink. We cover cryptids and I have my own little carrot eating cryptid in the corner right now. And one of my biggest unsolved mysteries was what breed is he? To solve this, I went to Embark's dog DNA test. They have the most accurate dog DNA test available and all I had to do was take a little cheek swab from him. I had to mail it to them in a pre-packaged envelope that they provided for me. And two weeks later, we got the results and everyone thought when we got hank they were like, oh, clearly he's a cattle dog. Big surprise indeed, he is actually a burnwiler, which is half Bernie's mountain dog and half rotwiler. And also Pomeranian, which was an even bigger surprise and a pinch, like 3% German shepherd. If you want to see for yourself what your dog's breed is and not just what their breed is at a curiosity, but how you can actually help them based on their breed, what's going to help them health wise, what their diet should look like, what their exercise should look like, what their lifespan will look like. Then check out Embark, it's been so helpful to us. Get the dog DNA test that is trusted by millions and this August, if you'd like, you can add a donation for shelters and rescues right at checkout go to EmbarkVet.com to get free shipping and save $10 with promo code drink, visit EmbarkVet.com and use promo code drink to save $10 today. Olen Schennen-Maldonado, the founder of the Artesan Institute of Technology, has been a member of the Institute of Technology. He was a shopkeeper because he was a professor at the University of Technology in the first year of the University. He was the first to be a professor at the University of Technology. [Music] Solar Plexus, that's so weird. I was just talking about solar plexus today. Every time I eat avocado, it feels like someone kicked me in my solar plexus. Can you sternum here? Yeah, like right underneath. It feels okay, wait, that's why I'm getting that's so weird. That's why I'm getting this food sensitivity thing. I was at the same thing you've got. Oh, hi everyone. Sorry, can we hop in? I don't know when we're allowed to hop in. I don't want to jump in with your own health stuff. And I didn't mean to bring this to the group, but I did get some DMs helping me out. From last time I forgot that I talked about this. Like I completely forgot I mentioned on the last episode that like I've been having this weird like no appetite so I can only eat smoothies and stuff. And I'm not pregnant folks. Check that. I was actually out my period when I recorded that. So don't that's not the culprit, but you say like that solar plexus that is literally where like my sternum it feels like there's like a block or like a scoring or like something like up like a inflammation. I don't know. So yeah, so that's I don't know if it's like food sensitivity or stress or Crohn's or yeah, it's crazy. No, it's only it's when I eat avocado, but it's also when I smell either jasmine or like like not vanilla like the food, but vanilla like the fragrance. Like the flowery plant flowering. If I smell if we walk past jasmine, I feel like anyone I any time I do someone's like, oh my god, it smells so good. And I'm like, I think I'm going to throw up like I really feel so funny. I sit my whole face into it. So yeah, that I feel sick of my stomach. It like really makes me like the solar like the nausea of someone hitting your solar plexus. Yeah, you know, I wonder it's like amazing kind of how our bodies are like, nope. You don't like that. I it's yeah, it is wild. And then of course, Allison just planted a bunch of jasmine and oh yeah, yeah, and then Allison's going to be on date line. Yeah, she's just like slowly killing me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I have avocado for dinner. Yeah, and this is like a pest, a healthy pesto made with avocado. Yeah, I mean, it goes away after five minutes, but those five minutes, I'm like, I feel like I just like got just got off the craziest roller coaster. So that's really weird because I have that I've never been able to eat like stevia or like aspartame or anything. And it like immediately makes my throat like swell and it sounds bad. It feels like it's sure does, but it's not life. I mean, as far as I know, I don't go so far as to make it life threatening and I avoid it, but it like is extremely uncomfortable. And I, Leonardo does not have that with sugar free stuff. Like I cannot go near sugar free, even like that. The like plant sugar free stuff like monk fruit, monk fruit, which is so weird, because it's like it's a plant. You know, and then they were all remember stevia was like, it's from a plant. Right. Yeah. It's like stevia and everything. And I was like constantly at school walking around like, are these cookies sugar free? It's their killing me. Interesting. What would you know? Would you feel anything other than your throat kind of closing up? Like it like really just kind of feels like I shouldn't be drinking this. Okay. I mean, that's a good thing. And it's like, I mean, I do feel a little left out of the diet coke like culture, because I would be so hardcore into the diet. I know I would be hard. You give me diet coke early vibes. I do. I know I feel it in my bones. And it's like a Coca-Cola, but like that's just not the same, you know. I've got a friend at the dog park who I think brings a diet coke like every day to the park. But it's like I like want to yeah, I get the vibe so hard and we went to Chili's guy a diet coke. He's like, I love my brother. My brother has that. He's so into it. I'm also not in that circle because I have never been a diet anything person. Do you not like it? Or is it like you just, yeah, it tastes gross, right? I mean, it also poisons me. But to me, it also tastes gross. I mean, like the aspartame flavor, which he has said is like, that's the thing. And I'm like, okay, but it's like, yeah, yeah, I can't stand that. I want like, well, I was going to say I want real sugar, but then like Coke these days isn't even real sugar. So I just want corn syrup, I guess. I tell you what though that corn syrup doesn't do a damn thing to my throat. And I love it. So what the fuck ever at this point? It's like the monk fruit is going to kill me. So I might as well have some corn syrup. Yeah, I've never had Coke with the yellow top. What's that? No. They, it comes out during like a Jewish holidays because it's some, at least that's what I know it as. It's like Jewish Coke because it's kosher and it's like real cane sugar or something, but it, it's supposed to taste more like the original recipe because it's about the Mexican Coke like in the glass bottle when you go to. Maybe it's the same thing and I, they just market it as two different things. But yeah, they're marketing. They're definitely going to sell the yellow top though. I don't know about. You'll, now that I've said it, you'll see it eventually and it's, it's going to be like a cold foam top. And I was like, oh, interesting. That's so L.A. The leaders at the store will have yellow tops. What? The leaders, like the two leader bottles of Coke. I thought you meant like the team leader, like the general manager of the store will be wearing a yellow top. And I was like, hello. And he's Jewish every time. Yeah. And he wants to make sure that your drinks are kosher. I really was thrown off for a moment. And I thought we were living, and I think we were in two different realities because I was like, I know what I said. Incredible. And you know, this has been happening ever since we recorded ads before this. Like I said, we can't even blame. Mercury, it's not retrograde. We're just, you know, like, we're in a space. I mean, hear me say a fricking disclosure, whatever those things, terms and conditions at the end, I was like poor Jack, our editors like struggling. I was telling you before I'm changing the topic, by the way. Yeah. I mean, I was already, I already left the other one. Before we talked about, you know, the Jews and their yellow tops. And then I was like, is this that it's their itself? What they do at Wawa, like I was like, try to picture like what store like a public side and understand the yellow tops. I was just, we just decluttered a bunch of stuff and we ended up playing a bunch of like games yesterday, which you know I fucking love. Yeah, you and your games. It's like only my dream, but okay. It was. What do you mean a bunch of game? Like who? While you are cleaning? So we, like that doesn't sound fun. I want to put that on the record. I agree. Allison and I were trying to be more intentional with our time together. And we couldn't come up with anything except playing games. And I was like, we have to have more fun than this. Please, we had to end up saying like, we'll play a game and just see where it takes us. It turned into the game being us decluttering our games. Oh, that was the game. Sure. Sure. Sure. We played a, we played basically, oh, the game was up. We were all the games we were thinking about decluttering. We decided to play one last time to see if we really wanted to keep them or not. And so it was. That sounds fun. Yeah, it does sound like a riot of a time. It, you know, it's just like that's what you do on the weekends and your 30s. Yeah, it was a Saturday night. It was a Sunday night. Uh, okay. At least there's that. We ended up getting rid of like half of our stuff, which it's got to feel good though. That part felt really good. And we played them to test them to make sure, but like, uh, we ended up finding all of our cards. Like we have so many fucking decks of cards and decks of tarot cards. And I, I thought we only had like two or three. I have fucking like seven or eight decks of tarot cards. Um, but it, that was going to be the, my question of the day for you. Not that I need one, but I, as I was doing and I was like, I wonder how many Christine has, because she's really into tarot. How many decks do you have? Well, oh, man, I don't know. I don't know. If you did like, like, so if you had to baseball, I've We'll see you in the first. I would have in the past because I actually finally got them all together and put them out. So I'm trying to think probably, I mean, probably 15, 20. Do you have a favorite? Yeah, just my, my favorite is I think just the one, my trusty old, you know, the one I got when I was 15 and like bought with my money and like, you know, have, have like studied, like that one is my, is my favorite one. But then I just kind of go with the vibe. I'm like, which, what's, there's this new one that it's not even a new one. Someone named Kat apparently gave it to me and I use it sometimes in the TikTok reading, some doing in the YouTube ones. But someone named Kat gave it to me and it's like the beloved ancestor deck. And that one is so cool because it basically you can tap into like who, which ancestor or like ancestral energies you're working with. And, and so sometimes I'll be like called to do that on a reading and like pull somebody's creepy grandpa or like, it'll say like drunk. I'm like, oh, somebody's just like drunk on goals here to give you wisdom. I don't know. But so that one's really special because it feels very like spooky and it's like this victory and like, you know, so whoever you are Kat apparently worked at a, because there's a note inside it says, and I found it in my closet. So I've had it for years. And it was like, and I just pulled it out as a like, I can't believe I get to see you at the venue where I work love Kat. And I'm like, I don't know what the fuck venue that was for some reason. It's giving me like specific North West vibes, but it also could be New Hampshire. I don't fucking know. So yeah, whoever you are Kat, thank you. I've mentioned you like three times on YouTube because I keep saying thanks to Kat who gave us to me. But anyway, that one felt like it needed to come out. So if anyone, yeah, it needs a message from their grandfather. I certainly don't. It's a good deck. Sure. No, I, well, I kept finding more teradax. And I was like, how the fuck do I have this money? But one of them was, I mean, they're mainly fandom ones. Like, I've got like, I'm on one. I've got like a back to the future. We're having Neopets one. Ow, my ear. That's the angels are like, get the Neopets deck. It's like, I just watched it happen in real life. Yeah, I don't know those are there. I've got to find those. Neopets has to be such a fun little deck. I'm sure. It isn't. I'm like, I can't believe I didn't. And I think Andrews McMeill, our book publisher, the ones who published that and sent it to me. Crazy. I know. I got to go get that. Anyway, I didn't mean to like put you on the spot there. But I thought of you this weekend when we were organizing all of our terror. I was like, can you imagine someone who's actively pursuing terror? Well, and I'm apparently remembering I have other ones that are just sort of stashed, because I don't know where that Neopets one is, but I do have it. But also I know I have like three other decks that aren't even in this pile, which means I got to go declutter other things to find those. Yeah, yeah. And these are ones I've like, I've like curated mine. I feel like I've gotten rid of some that didn't vibe with me or not really even gotten rid of, like, gave them to people or like, felt like these just, I don't know. Yeah. I think I've probably got a dozen or 15 things like that. Anyway, why do you drink this week? Also, look, wait, before I ask you, well, after I ask you, and before you tell me, I got my little smoothie, and it looks so fancy and look, they match me again. It's like your nails and everything. Uncanny. Oh my god. Well, tell us what's on the smoothie. I don't know. Super foods. That kind of fix me, I think. Today's the day. Today's finally the day. I had them put peanut butter on top of it. Interesting. How do we, you asked for that? I did because I just want protein. I'm like, I can't eat food. It's like so hard to eat food. So I'm trying to. But flavor wise, like, is that the closest thing I can compare it to is like maybe a PBJ for it to be peanut butter and fruit and it being tasty. It just look. Wait, really? Yeah. Put peanut butter in your smoothies. No. Really? Ever since I was like five, ever since I got my first hand crank blender. Every since baby's first Vitamix. Nutrible. Yeah. No. There's a not taste like, I mean, I get like if it's like a nano one or something. Am I weird for putting peanut butter in my smoothies? I put peanut butter in every single. Like, I don't think I've ever had a smoothie without peanut butter. So when I get a smoothie, I'm like, put peanut butter in it. And maybe that's what I'm allergic to. Am I having just a constant anaphylactic and during your own appetite? It's my first Vitamix age. So if the smoothie is like kiwi and mango, you'd put peanut butter in it. But I don't eat that. Okay. So you're only eating really like peanut butter friendly smoothies. I don't fuck with that. Yeah. But like, to me, most smoothies are peanut butter friendly except maybe like totally tropical. That's not me. Like smooth. I guess my only smoothie is I get a tropical. Okay. Maybe that's the kind of key difference we're having because mine are always like very like creamy base. So like I say, banana, oat, peanut butter, super foods, etc. Interesting. Yeah. I'm usually like tropical food and berries, tropical and berries. I put a lot berries, but that goes with the peanut butter to me. I don't know. That's interesting. I always thought that was like one of the staple ingredients. But again, we've learned over and over again. I'm I'm the weird one. I mean, I probably not because I'm thinking also like people put peanut butter in their oatmeal. That's full of fruit. Me too. So maybe we're on to something. I mean, maybe I just haven't given a shot but in my mind, I guess I mean, I really only go for like peanut collada flavor. So peanut butter would be kind of crazy. Yeah. That would be a little that would be something I would do. There was a friend of mine. Yeah. There was a friend of mine that used to always say, oh, remember when I met you in third grade? And I was like, stop telling that story. We're like 25. But she'd be like, when I met you in third grade, you were sitting all by yourself. I remember it so vividly too. All by yourself in the lunch room. And by the way, I was like, this is the secret. I wanted to be alone because I was like doing like a whole bit. I get it. Yeah. Thank you. And so, but she was so sweet. And so she came to sit with me. And she's like, I remember it was so sad because you're sitting by yourself and you are eating a blueberry bagel with peanut butter. And she told this story for years and for years, I was like, I don't get it. Like, what's so weird about that? And then like one day, I was like, what is so fucking? Why do you always tell that part? And she's like, because it's so fucking weird. And I was like, it is. I don't think that's super weird. Okay. So now I'm like, am I a peanut butter freak? I guess. Fucking whatever. Maybe that's why I'm always having an prophylactic shock. Okay. Fine. I, um, are you happy now? My, is that still your go-to? No, you're, that's not your go-to bagel anymore? No. Apparently I ate it one time, got shamed out of it and have been told ever since that this is a freaky thing I do. So yeah. And you know what? All I wanted was to sit there in silence and like, you know, have a moment of like, I'm the main character in my emo third grade play. You know, I get it. My go-to is always the strawberry cream cheese, but I'm very picky. I really want like the most processed strawberry, like, like, I went Einstein's bagels strawberry cream cheese. I cannot stand what it's like about you. I do like, you are like the opposite of like, you're like, so, you're like snobby, but in like the opposite way of like, I'm snobby about being as like, like, low brow as possible. And you know, my stepmother is this way sometimes where she'll be like, don't give me that whipped, like, we'll go somewhere fancy. I mean, we, we would in the past, like, as when we were young, we would be so embarrassed because she'd be like, don't give me that whipped butter crap. Like, give me real butter from the container. Like, you know, very just like, you don't mess around with some things. I'm like, I'm a creature of habit. Why would we judge anything up that needs? Right. Like, you're like, don't put bitters in my juice. Like, just give me juice. Yeah. Like, come on. Or like, like, like, mac and cheese. I'm like, why on earth would you give me fancy mac and cheese? Like, I know what I want. The mac. Yeah. It's the point. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you ever go to like, Einstein's or out here, I think it's Noah's Noah's, Noah's bagels, which I think they're the same company just on different coasts. I believe so as well. But they have like the, it's just, it's just like a pink strawberry cream cheese. And it's not neon pink. I don't know why, but some of this fucking strawberry cream cheese that they put out there in the world, it's neon pink to let you know it's strawberry. And it's actually like anything except crap. It's not good. And I'll stand by that proudly. And then there's other cream cheese where it's like, it's just plain cream cheese, but they've chopped up a bunch of strawberries and put it in there. And then they call that strawberry cream cheese. Yeah. So I get horrified every time I go to a new bagel place. And I only want to just strawberry cream cheese. Take a moment. Do you know how many times even I've been to a new bagel place with MSC? Sholes. Think about it on tour. How many times have I been into a bagel shop? I'm thinking now, no wonder. Well, there's so much residual trauma here. I'm thinking back now. I can't say 40 new bagel incidents, like locations in together. And you've probably had a psychic meltdown in the free one of them. I learned to stop where you just sat in the back of the seat and you were sad. And I just remember being like, I'm got really sad after that bagel place. It's because I really want one specific cream cheese. It's haunting. And it's and I can never find it anywhere else. Everyone else puts their own spin on it. And I'm sure like there's this fancier and it's like, Oh, this cream cheese is made of feta whipped up with garlic sprouts and then you're like, I literally like there's a there was one place where we went where I was shocked because it was mainly it was strawberry jam, which was fine. Strawberry jam. And they mixed it with honey butter. And then it became like this whipped strawberry. I remember your that was incredible for found reaction to that. That was the fun. The day of that day strikes me actually in this moment. It was especially special just to be safe. I just go with a bacon egg and cheese because I'm like, you can't. That's the same across the board. And even we know that's not true, because we've really been into enough situations in our touring careers that like even that's not true and we know it unfortunately. I guess that's why I drink because I'm just unless I'm beer and Noah's or nine times I'll never be happy and giggle. Oh, that's so tough for you. Yeah, it's tough. It is tough for me. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I hear you and I hold space. And I drink a my go to although today tastes a little different. I don't know what they did. But it tastes a little different and not really a good way. Maybe they put some fuck-ass cream cheese in here. I was about to say I bet you they've put some peanut butter in there for you. It actually kind of tastes like there's peanut butter in it, which is very weird. What is it? It's a lemon. Oh, I see I was going to do a whole bit where whatever you said you were drinking. I was going to pretend like I've also put peanut butter on that and like be like, no, that is normal. But I really just couldn't help myself. That's too ridiculous. Well, the other reason I drink is because last week I sounded like a full-blown man with my voice. And I was like, it's so crazy. I'm not even sick. Very next day I got like the summer flu. And so. Yeah, we tried to all hold out hope for you. But why do you drink, Christine? Oh, I don't know. Apparently I have a freaky relationship to peanut butter that I've got to evaluate. Yeah. And so thanks for that, everybody. No, not that was not meant to be rude. That's not a silly rude. Thanks, everyone. Thanks. Fuck you all. Thanks for nothing, dirt bags. Sorry. Now I'm now I'm now I'm now I'm. You're regulated. Okay, we're back to we're back to basics. I just got it flamingo because in the shower you're like a flamingo. Holy. Whoa, hang on. Surprise. I get it now. I totally we could be all get it for the first time just hour. We've the last two probably the last two. Let's not hear the answer to that. Let's pretend everybody's on the same page as last. You know, speaking of flamingo, we were just clean where we've got company coming this week. And so we have been slowly getting through things decluttering the baskets and all that. And we have now decluttered our shower, which was just like there was just bottles all over the place. One thing we're keeping in there is that flamingo shaving cream. That is. It really is nice. It's really nice. It keeps you nice and smooth. Slip and slide all over those legs. Oh, my word. Really, surely. Just like a flamingo. Wow, I'm just I feel so like wow, I feel so wise. Okay, the whole kit. Don't even worry about it. It's just $7 and it has a shower holder. For limited time, our listeners can get the flamingos starter set for only $7 at shop flamingo dot com slash drink. This includes the flamingo original razor one five blade cartridge, a one ounce foaming shave gel. You got to try it and a shower holder just had to shop flamingo dot com slash drink to claim this offer. And after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Well, I have a story for you. Oh, thank God. And it is the it's in Australia. And it's in Melbourne. And it's in well, it's specific. It's in Victoria. And it's in Melbourne, which is in Victoria. I'll show you. Got it. Okay. This is the princess theater. And it is a 1450 seat theater and home to pretty much every show that comes to town. It's like the place. We're talking like theater place. The theater. T.I. to place. Okay. It is the oldest entertainment venue on mainline, Australia. It is on the national trust of Australia. And it is on the on the in the Victorian heritage register. Lala, which I'm assuming those are like the national history. Yeah, you know, you know, those things that we also don't know the word for. In my mind, I was like, I say it every time for American places. So I feel like I should say national historic registry. I think register register national. Why can't I remember it? I've said it a thousand times. I can't remember it all. National landmark historical landmark. Whatever. I've left. I left a long time. It's like my head fell off. Yeah. So I feel like I should have told you my head fell off to a while ago. And I for us. Like our heads rolled off, became couple weeds and different deserts, but found each other and clunked into each other. Holy shit. Where did you come from? I'm no clue. Yeah. Same. I'm so so glad we're on the same page. I feel. I feel how you feel. I imagine. You know what I'm saying? I can only imagine. And it's so scary isn't it? Torfying. Okay. So Princess theater. Let's talk 1850s. Let's talk logistics 1850. 1850s to the 1870s. Victoria has itself a little gold rush. We have talked about our gold rush way too many ad nauseam and DDS. And basically with this gold rush. I mean, it was a 20 year long gold rush. She was very popular in town. People were coming in. It was bringing a lot of wealth. And it actually deemed Victoria this new title of marvelous Melbourne. So I guess it was in the Melbourne area. But it became known as marvelous Melbourne because it was just popping off that much with gold. And this is a fun fact for you. The mines brought in at that time about 42 million pounds of gold. Oh, which equates to 21,000 tons. Sure. Yeah. That makes more sense for me. Thanks. If yeah, if you also just don't pay attention to the armatric system, it is around 2 million kilograms of gold. Yeah, this is helpful. Thank you for the formula. I, you know, just in case anyone know can even relate to any of those numbers. Oh, I've held that much gold before. I know how heavy that is. Oh, I'm worth that weight in gold. That's crazy. You just have that downstairs in the basement. You just need a mirror and a good attitude. Oh, wow. Plus it's done in whatever you just said was really enlightening and illuminated. Thank you. Okay. So do you just vomit it? Sorry. Never mind about the compliment I gave you. Okay. A shitload of gold came through the Melbourne area. And basically was so much bustle in the area for once we're not talking about a hotel. But a venue decided to get built because there are like, well, so many people are in town. I bet we decided to get different shows. What's that? You said the venue decided to get built. The venue did decide she talked to herself. She had a mirror and a good attitude. And she said, we're gonna do this. It's like the God spark, you know, like, oh, I just want to see my own creation. It's like the big bag. We all you need is a mirror and a good attitude. And you just fucking rock a royal baby. Oh my God. Okay. So the venue decided to get built. Obviously. Hell yeah. But there were like, so many people are coming through. I bet we could sell lots. I could sell a lot of shows. So let's, let's build something. And they ended up creating this. It was like a barn, like a feeder out of a barn or it was barn shaped. It was kind of a little not it's finest for a little rustic. Yeah. Yeah. And it was called Astley's Ampitheater. Oh. And it actually, I can't tell if this was like a franchise, but there was also an Astley's Ampitheater in London. I'm assuming they're the same thing. And they just went, oh, let's have an Australian one. It feels like that could very well be just two people named that. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I'm sure I could have found out. I did not spend enough time looking that up, but great. At this one, they were holding horse shows, acrobat shows, very circus vibes. They also had a stage for Vaudeville. And it opened in 1854. But then three years later, the building was completely redone. I think they realized that this barn was not doing much. And it reopened as the princesses theater and opera house. Oh, nice. And this, by the way, is the first of many closings renovatings reopenings of this place. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're doing like rebrands over and over over and over. Like eventually I just got, I couldn't even keep up with that. It's like every 10 years, we're just real putting this thing. But this is the first time it's called the princess theater. It's redone again, only 20 years later. And then it's called the new princess theater. It's redone again, another 10, 20 years later. But this time it is being it hurts. It's purchased and owned by this partnership called the triumvirate. Whoa. And apparently they were super controversial at the time, because they tried to get into the arts, but kind of for evil, where like they wanted to just capitalize on entertainment. But they didn't really care about like the actors or the artists or were thinking about like local artists. They were just bringing in like famous names and then other people are losing their jobs because of it that were in the area. They were like the first real like I get master. I guess so kind of like it was like a big touring company where they had certain names that they had contracts with. So yeah, yeah, I think that my battery is dying of my camera. Hold on. Fine. Oh, there she goes. Oh, it's like she knew she had five seconds left to live. Okay, the tri, the triumvirate. Yeah, Jesus Christ. This dog, the triumvir, the triumvirate. Is it male time? I have no clue. Smoothies already arrived. So what else could be? Maybe it's my food sensitivity. Maybe. Can you imagine? Okay. It's usually geos fucking dog food. And I'm like, that's for you idiot. I get so mad. Oh my god. the triumphant. Yes, they're super controversial. They did not have a passion for drama. They were just in it for the money. So they were, they bought the theater and they're like, we could do something real crazy with this. They were able to bring in a whole bunch of different types of acts, so not just Vodville, not just horse shows. And they decided they were just going to start fresh demolish the entire building and rebuild it. It's now called the Princess Theater. It was originally, it was last called the new Princess Theater. This time it was designed by a guy named William Pitt, who was a huge architect of the time, I think, especially when it came to building theaters. One thing he did with the Princess, this is actually just about the coolest thing I ever did here. He made the world's first theater to have a retractable roof. Oh, so like, it could be an amphitheater. Yeah. So like during, even just like plays, it was a good night out. They would just open the roof so you had an open air show. Was this like hand crank? You know, I don't know, but it was like in the early 1900s. So it has to be some mule crank maybe some poor man to PA up there just with a rope. That sounds right. Yeah. But so I thought that was super cool. I think it still exists. I think the roof is still retractable today. Wow. The roof is still retractable with a rope and a legend has it, she still opens it night still on paid on paid interns still there. By 1915, there's like a whole other bunch of ownership changes very quickly that I'm not even going to bore you with. And by the 1930s, it's bought by a film production company. So the, this is a fun fact. I guess if, if you happen to be at the theater, I guess there's an arch in the lobby. And if you look up, there's initials FT carved into the arch and that was the owner of the film company who bought the place. He was like, I'm putting my god damn name here because somebody changed her name. Right here. We're the mistletoe hangs. I'd switch. Yes, that's exactly that was the full quote actually. Yeah, that's what I thought and then they really cut it because they cut off his romantic part. But in 1946, it's which is again, but now it's hosting operas, ballets, musicals, comedy, drama. So right around this time is the 1940s. So I'm coming up on a hundred years. That's when it becomes a catch all for any sort of entertainment is done here. Okay. In the 80s, it's changed again. This time though, it is brought to it's what it currently looks like. They decided that they were going to renovate it back to like its 1920s, glamour, old Hollywood or old vaudeville vibe. So in the 80s, they made it look like how it did in the 20s. And one of the last big reopenings, they their second show that came out. This was in 1989. You don't have to remember any of this. I'm just starting a bunch of fun faxie before I tell you I got it on my eyes. Okay. 1989. This is actually I think one of the last fun fax I have for you. But they're during one of their last big reopening. So it was in 89. And the first show after that reopening was Les Mis after that was phantom. And when phantom of the opera came out in the cedar, it became the country's longest running show ever. Really? Yeah. It's got a good song. What you know, it's crazy. I don't really care for phantom of the opera. I don't know what you know. It's crazy. I've never seen it. Okay. I want to. It's not that I did it on purpose. It's just like and then for a while in the 90s, every time somebody said, Oh, Christine, like phantom of the opera. And the picture used to scare me because I was a big, big baby. And so I'd always just like be so weird about it. And yeah, I never saw it. But I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, oh, they have a song about me in that show. I guess in the 80s, maybe it was incredible. I think it was a big like our parents were really into a generation like they were into it. I guess so. I think Wicked ruined a lot for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of set the bar. Yeah. I got it. But so it was, uh, it lasted for two and a half years at the theater. And then the only other time that there was an incredibly long running show, I think it actually has probably beaten phantom now, uh, was in 2018. The, you know, Harry Potter had a Broadway show. Yes. Okay. So Harry Potter and the cursed child that came to the theater. This is fucking banana grams. The theater, I guess it was the third place to ever host the Harry Potter show. It was like New York and then London and then this theater. And they spent because they had, it wasn't just decorating the stage and paying the cast and all that. They have to like redo the entire theater. So everything was Harry Potter in there. Like they had to redo the wallpaper, the carpet. They, oh my word, they made the building look like Hogwarts basically. And had to like, take away from its 1920s look, make it look like Harry Potter. And then they had to re renovate everything back when the show left. Jesus. Um, but they spent $6.5 million on just renovating itself to host Harry Potter. Um, this includes, and this is a quote from a newspaper article custom Hogwarts theme carpets wallpaper life fixtures. And, uh, they had a resort to the 19th century detailing. They had gilded statues for each of the Hogwarts houses. They had new scaffolding on the front of the building. Um, everything was done Harry Potter. So it was, or it's still the most successful show that's ever played in Australia almost half a million. That would have been really awkward otherwise. Almost half a million people went to that theater to watch it. And then COVID showed up. So then they had to go on hiatus for a year. And then it came back and Harry Potter still played through 2020. Yeah, they were like, well, we still have all the decorations that we guys will fucking do that again. I know. They were like, well, I guess we're just going to keep moving. Wow. Okay, so that's all the fun facts I have for you now. I'm just going to tell you about their resident ghost. Yeah, I love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you for sticking with me through that. Sometimes I can't tell if people enjoy the history when it's just fun facts or if they want the full like story. But there's really not like a story to a theater, you know. I mean, there is. And I feel like we got the story, you know, the story is that I changed a lot of hands. Yeah. Um, it all began with Rick Astley, I think is where we started. That's exactly right. Yeah. I don't know if Rick Astley had an amphitheater. That'd be expensive. Sounds like he might have, didn't he? I never thought I'd be like a person because I'm so like chaotic to have like a capsule wardrobe. But now with quince, it's like, oh, fall is coming. Let me get out my fall wardrobe. I okay. I'm so glad we're talking about quince because I recently I had to buy more because I'm obsessed with these right now. I got these bath cheats. They're tarry cloth. They're waffle prints. They're Turkish and, oh, well, well, say less. They are so comfy. And I, you know, there's nothing I love more than after a shower, just being like, like wearing a, wearing a towel like a scarf around my whole body. Totally. You got to be like, inrobed in something. Like so nice. So if you're looking for something to get from quince, I got a gosh. I mean, a set of two. Okay. I see. And then it says $49. Nice. You say 57%. See, this is what they do. And then they tell you the brands that like they're, you're comparing to. And so then you're getting 50 to 80% lower prices than similar brands. And you get to see it right in front of your very eyes. Plus they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman. This isn't like fast fashion. I'm talking capsule wardrobe, Turkish towels. Listen, it's just the best, the best for less. That's not a phrase and that they use. But I made it up. So here you go. It's incredible. Upgrade your everyday download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash drink. And you can get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q u i n c e dot com slash drink. Well, this theater is known for its ghost named. He was his birth name was Frederick Demadoff and a toll. No, sorry. I don't know. If that person interested in some stuff, I spit my drink out. Like, that's so rude of me. I'm so sorry. And it's all Frederick Demadoff Baker. Don't say that. Like Demidoff, don't be ridiculous. I'm talking to that person, not you. And he goes by Fred Ritchie. Yeah, sure. Fred Ritchie sure. Sure he does. He was born 1850, which is the year that the Gold Rush began. And I guess and the theater was about to get built. He was born in Italy. He's a famous opera singer. And he was in many successful musicals that went on to be big award winners. And in the it was 1887, he joined the triumviratory company. Oh boy. And so they brought him to Australia. He was going to perform at a bunch of different spots. Eventually one of them would be the princess theater. And he was cast in a show called Faust. Do you know about Faust? Okay. Do you know enough about it to give a summary or you want me to say it real quick? You go right ahead. My mother might hear this. Okay. Great. It's the very, very quick version is that there's a guy who is selling his soul to the devil. And Fred Ritchie played the devil. Wow. I'm making it as quick as possible. But the main characters are the guy, the devil and the guy that the devil is taking Miss Oliv. Yes. The devil's name is Mephistopheles. Of course. Can you imagine if he was like, "I'm actually, my name is Anatole Frederick Demigoth, Demigoth Baker." But I go by Mephistopheles. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Well, so he okay, so he's playing Mephisovli is the devil and during the play the devil takes the man's soul Mm-hmm and the two of them descend into hell together and They basically the way that the show is put out is that the devil links arms with the guy who just sold his soul Or like wraps a scarf around the two of them in some way they're bound as one and then they're standing on a Slow-moving trap door that descends them down into hell and there's like fire and lights everywhere on the stage big deal Well, so on opening night of fouls. Oh my god. I have a bad feeling about this in 1888 it's opening night and as the trap door slowly dropped them the audience noticed that Fedorici playing the devil He kind of slumped over for a second and they caught himself on the trap door and What they didn't know was that they thought it was just an artistic choice But Fedorici was actually having a heart attack. Oh, I was gonna guess that. Oh, no and He was struggling as soon as the trap door got down to the bottom of the stage down in the basement He was carried to the green room a doctor was called they tried resuscitating him But he died while the show was still going on and none of the cast upstairs knew ah and drama lucky quote for him that was his last scene of the show so like no It's not like they waited for like he'd lost he missed his cue or something Well, the show must go on if you're gonna have a heart attack you better wait till you're fucking yeah last line Say your last line and then we can be so I mean it really is an artist He you know and let's put this way because you're on to something here Apparently his ghost also believed in the show must go on because many people in the cast Truly didn't think anything was wrong, especially when during curtain call he was up there with them bow Shut the fuck up Yeah, so people were like what do you mean he's dead? He was just he just bowed he just bowed Like everyone remembers him being on site. That's fucking crazy. I love that his ghost was like okay God, I see the white light but like let me have this moment like I know like all on one second longer Also like I love he died playing the devil like a it's really about that. It's really something and I you know God, that's beautiful. There's something about it. Wow. I just something something about it. So ever since Federici has haunted the theater and I guess people have noticed that lights during performances even if they've tested them a million times during rehearsal They'll always glitch during a performance. I wonder like what time that's that because maybe it's like the moment he died or maybe it's I wonder if there's something there. Yeah, the heart attack. Yeah, oh People have seen him gliding past the stairs. They felt him Started gliding and his after life. He's like if I'm gonna stay in this fucking theater might as well have built in like My feet. Yeah, what the fuck do you think I am? Yeah People have felt him brushing past them. They've seen him like next to a bunch of boxes and he is like kind of shuffling around People which I love that he's just shuffling. He's either got gliding or shuffling. It's it's one or the other. Yeah People have felt something touch their back people have felt their shoulders get touched people have felt their hair get played with He's been seen sitting in the dress circle, which in theaters. That's like the that's my favorite spot to sit It's the front row of the mezzanine or like the very first bell. Oh, okay, the very first bell It's orchestras on the floor or the pit and then the pit isn't like the center and then there's the mezzanine and then there's the balcony Okay, the mezzanine the front center that is where people see him now Okay, I didn't a theater. That's also where you would see me because it's the best view Yeah, some people are like I want to be right up. I want them spit non-man. I'm like, okay. I don't know no but I guess what's funny about this is he's seen during rehearsals, but some people have claimed that they see him like so dramatically reacting to their performances when he's unhappy Like they'll see him like brushing hair out of his face and he's like super impatient and he's like taking notes I guess he's like he's like doing he's like making motions that suggest that he's like critically judging them Which is like me laugh and in the best seat in the house, too. So it's like oh man Like he's got a perfect view of us sucking right now shit and like you better you better be Perform well under pressure because at that point like the pressure's on I know yeah Um and so now actually the see that they always see him in on opening nights. They'll reserve it for him as like an offer nice For good luck and people also see him on stage I don't know if this is during performances, but they'll see him on stage or walking in the aisles and apparently He's like dressed to the nine so maybe he does know like on opening nights. I'm supposed to look my best or uh, I mean clearly he knows on one uh One firefighter this was not during an actual show, but while the theater was open I guess an alarm went off and a firefighter was trying to turn it off It wasn't working and so he tried to open a bunch of windows to let the smoke out or to see if that would turn the smoke alarm off And my mind he should have just opened the whole roof Uh with the big crank. Yeah But I guess he like freaked out because while he was doing that he saw a tall dark shadow of a man on stage with the eyes of a cat Mustafa's holy shit or like the jellicle cats. I don't know. What's what I mean? Isn't that a name of a character in Fucking cats are my dreaming. Is it I haven't seen cats in so long. I've never seen cats either And I've never seen it in my life that it would be funny if it was just a jellicle cat and it was just makeup Yeah, look it up. Look it up Also are there two major plays? Mr. Mustafa's but it's spelled like ridiculous, you know, and the original Mustafa's is like with like that pH and Is it that funny that there are two characters named Mustafa Lee's and he's I mean, I think it's like an homage to the yeah Oh, it's an homage to the the guy from pants think because That's false to the original character from folk German folklore because yeah, Mustafa Lee's the missed the cat is spelled like with F's and E's and Mm-hmm, you know, almost like a comical way, but that is like what are the odds though that he played Mustafa. He's been died and now he looks like a different Mustafa's. He's probably like yeah I get that one too just because I died before cats doesn't mean I don't get to like That's good body that Wearing the contacts, you know, it's so I didn't even put that together, but that's so you're oh that's creepy the fact that it was cat I buy tell you what that's he's probably just testing out the contacts. He's like oh, yeah, you're right I mean like to play on word. He's like I could be any Mustafa's I want you never know theater Um That's funny. I didn't even put that together Christine. I've never seen any of these plays Well, never seen fouls never seen cats never seen whoa my lights just flickered no shit Never seen um fan of the opera. So what can I do? As a because it's about bullshit. This guy's clearly a theater lover. He's like you haven't seen any of my shows um Yeah, sorry this firefighter left freaking out if he was like I just saw a tall man. He's got the eyes of a cat um Angelical It's only now hitting me. That's very funny. Uh But they have said the I guess the manager of the theater he said that uh fedarechi This is a quote is very much a benevolent presence nothing nasty ever happens. He's more of a friendly poltergeist. So I guess Okay, I think polter friendly and poltergeist are silly words It's gonna say especially when we're talking German devil folklore like in the mix I start to get a little iffy on like can you give me a little more clarity on what those words mean to you It's like yeah, cuz like put yeah poltergeist to me is something and to you it's clearly something else Also in the word the world of semantics doesn't poltergeist mean like noisy ghost like you mentioned a noisy ghost in a theater where you have to be quiet Also a german folklore I don't love all this you know and you know it comes from german folklore only bad things like That's it only like cutting off the thumbs and like eating people children and it's just like mess It's just a mess the germans are their own breed it seems that's uh anywhere like just it's just a traumatic Thing happening over there. Yeah Investigators have come here to look for fedarechi because they are really hoping that they'll catch them yeah There was a whole bunch of videos online. There was a whole bunch of videos Um, and fun fact the restaurant in the building is named fedarechi after him as well. Oh, that's not I bet he loves that I would love it if when I die there's a restaurant named after me. Oh my god. Yeah, but you'd be so You'd be like they put strawberries in the whipped cream and they're chopped up and this is not right you'd they'd find it on the ground every day And they'd have to call in a psychic to be like they don't like the ghost doesn't like this cream cheese I feel like they should have there should be a restaurant out there. This is such a bad business practice But I feel like there should be I was like saying it's already a terrible idea that I can't wait to hear it A restaurant named after someone who's like the the ghost of the the building and you use either dowsing rods or Ouija border You go ghost hunting first and have them make the menu so that way you know that you're pleasing them All right, so either demons or a bunch of children or Victorian dead people are gonna be telling you what to eat I'm sure it'll be delicious. Could be anything. I don't know. I would let I would love if someone came to where I used to be, and then they gave me an option and said, "What food should we offer in this?" Or that? I'm sure you would. Oh my God, I'm so excited. I'm sure you would want me to touch your skeleton while we're at it, too. So I do not-- And I'd have a good time, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's the Princess Theatre. Very good. I got to close out of my Mephastopheles. Mephastopheles. I'm going to look at it. Yeah, I was saying it wrong. Mephastopheles. It's like super fun times, yeah. Yeah, my mom taught German literature or teaches German literature, so-- and that's her PhD. So I tried to avoid anything in that area to be in my kind of conscious arena, you know? You just-- it's safe. It's a safe call. It's a safer place without it, if you can imagine. So, oh, it comes-- that makes total sense. Mephisto. Oh. Mephisto is the-- essentially, the devil in Marvel Comics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Mephastopheles is a demon featured in German folklore, so maybe I'll just cover Mephastopheles one day. It's a lot there. Mephastopheles. That's what it is. Yeah, the cat. Creepy. I don't know. Hey, which category are you overspending in? The categories are of-- Pokemon. All of them. I have every aspect of my life. All of them. A minus surely in their takeout, probably, or delivery, you know, it's a big one. But Rocket Money helps me deal with that. It helps me get a clear picture. Might even say a colorful picture of how I spend my money and it helps me put money away to save every month, which is really helpful. And it really puts it into a language I can understand. Rocket Money can track subscriptions and has the ability to cancel unwanted ones with the app, with a few taps, saves users over $880 million in cancel subscriptions. It's one thing for your job to be on the floor when you realize how much money you were spending. Building surprise. Right. They gently-- they take their hand and they place it under your jaw and they pick it back up. And they close your mouth for you and they go, "Don't worry, I've got it. It's up." A few more tasks. We're going to take care of this. You can't handle this right now, so we'll just do it. Rocket Money is a-- I'm going to say the personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/drink. That's rocketmoney.com/drink. Rocketmoney.com/drink. Hello, everyone. We just did a yappy hour in which M decided to play the elevator game and-- I don't want to be-- Alone, apparently. Which is the rule number one. To do it by-- M literally lost every rule and talk to the demon girl instead of not it. I heard you were saying it. I just didn't retain a lick of it. I went, aha, aha, aha. Okay. Which is-- And then M just-- it was like-- it was like-- when you see the girl enter the elevator on the fifth floor, and M goes, I'll tell her it's none of her business. Do not speak to her. It's like, what the fuck you already? And then M's like, well, we'd be in it together. And I'm like, do you remember rule number one is never going in it with another person? I'm telling you. And then I say, memorize the sequence and numbers that M goes, I just tried it. It didn't work. And I'm like, do they say, press them? And then five minutes later, I'm like, remember the sequence and numbers? And you're like, nope. You don't like-- Oh my god, we're going to die. You owe me. Okay? Let's put that way. Do you remember every investigation we ever went on where the one rule was don't bring alcohol? And you went, huh? Okay. And then you just brought a braw of wine. Or you just-- Do you remember-- Shatter glasses everywhere. Do you remember when I coerced you into doing a Ouija board? 13 times. I lost a talk about it. And that was also my fault. So you know what? So-- Maybe I am the-- Elevator time. Yeah. Maybe I got to get on this fucking Elevator to hell. Yeah, you know, we talked about how it's an Elevator like-- like from Faust, he's going to hell. And apparently some people call that game the Elevator to hell. Anyway, I hated every second of it. Thank you. And now, I'm going to get back to an even worse reality, which is the story I'm telling today. Perfect. Yeah. That's a good segue. Here we go. So the story I have for you today are the murders of Chad Joyce and Jay C. LaVasser. We go all the way back to October of 1994 when 80-year-old James Clark, known as Jay C. LaVasser, was spending the morning as he often did, selling produce along Texas Highway 155. Jay C. was retired and living in Berryville with his wife Annie Bell, very like Patrasque Texan situation. And for a decade, basically, what they did was grow fruits and vegetables and like shared with their neighbors and then like sold what was left over for-- Cool. What's very-- very Americana, very barnor-ish. It's an orange. And yeah. Totally. And just like, like hyper-local, you know. Yeah. So love that for Jay C. and Annie Bell. But on this early October morning, Jay C disappeared from his fruit stand. Very quickly, his truck was discovered just down the road, abandoned in the middle of the road. And pretty soon after that, Amanda discovered Jay C's body in the woods just off the road, where he had been shot to death. Oh my God. Now like imagining this right, like Americana situation, it was a complete shock to the community. Jay C was well known and liked by his fellow, like, produce vendors by his community, his neighbors, his customers. Yeah. It was just unimaginable why somebody would do this to this, like, kind, old, retired dude. Yeah. Guys, it sounds like he's friends with everybody. Yes. And police quickly ruled out robbery as a motive as well because there was cash in his pocket and at the produce stand. So it's not like somebody held up the produce stand and then, you know, very strange, very strange. So soon reports came in from witnesses who claimed to have seen two men attempting to leave in Jay C's truck, but struggling with the standard transmission and eventually bailing when the truck stalled out. So now they're thinking, well, maybe this was a failed car jacking and they're trying to get his truck and that's, he was killed over the dispute or what have you. Okay. So Jay C was survived by his wife, a daughter, brother, grandchildren, many friends in the community who were left reeling. So now we rewind a bit because years earlier on October 13th, 1991, Karen Choice began her Sunday as she usually did in these stories, if you can't guess, end up connecting. So just to be clear, but we're going to segu back to 1991, a couple of years earlier. Karen Choice begins her Sunday as usual. As a cup of coffee goes to service at the Christian teaching center, which is the church she attended in Tyler, Texas. The whole family was very rooted in their church community. Karen had studied faith-based counseling alongside her nurse administration degree in college and was a very involved member of the church. And this particular Sunday was a big deal because it was Karen's 41st birthday. So she decided she was going to go to church alone and celebrate with her friends while her kids slept in. So she left them at home that morning without waking anybody up. And during the service, she gets a phone call. However, daughters calls the church to ask whether Chadwick was with Karen, an eight-year-old Chadwick who went by Chad was the youngest of Karen's four children. His older siblings had woken up that morning and had known their mom was at church, as expected. But then they realized Chad was not home with them and they were like, well, that's weird. So Karen left church immediately began searching the neighborhood for Chad alongside family, friends, and church goers. And hope that Chad had just woken up and somehow wandered off without telling anyone. Did you, by the way, sorry, this is kind of a side note, but this is such a fearful thing. Did you ever wake up at home and nobody was there or you couldn't find anybody? There was a few times, I didn't not waking up, but when I would come home from school and I thought my mom was going to come home and she came home way later, and I just assumed like car crash. Like where is she going? I think Gary. There's like this primal fear, I feel like of that, like being home and not knowing. Because I remember like viscerally one time waking up and it was like too late in the day. And I remember like nobody was home and I was like, I was supposed to be, I mean, it had like the, and what had happened was that the neighbor's house had like caught on fire over. Like there had been this like huge, like event. And so it was like something scary, but it was like, well, like everything got kind of, I don't know. It was a very unsettling feeling to like realize someone's just like, "Vanit." It's definitely, it was definitely scary. Like I was like a kid because like it was so rare that I wasn't next to one of my parents. So when it did happen and it was unexpected, I like, it was so, your brain just doesn't know where to land. Yeah. At a source. Yeah, I was like, you're supposed to be here. Where are you? Yeah. Yeah, it's really unsettling. And so like this, and it's an eight-year-old, right? I mean, it's not, obviously, it's, it's like where would he go? It's not like a two-year-old where you say like, "Oh, God, he wandered off." And not that it's better if it's a two-year-old or what it had to be. Right. Which is like the mindset of like, what would this eight-year-old be doing? So they're, they're looking around the neighborhood, but like they're kind of like, we don't think if he's not around here in the neighborhood, we don't know where he would be unless something bad has happened, you know? She said he, like Chad, like to play and could be mischievous, but like, that's not, he's it's not like He's just a little kid, like he's not going to be wandering away from home for any reason. So Karen soon reported Chad missing to the police who visited the home. They observed there was no sign of a forced entry or anything like that. And so or robbery. And so they were like, oh, well, maybe he ran away, right? And of course, she's like, I promise you, he did not run away. And she genuinely was like, I can't understand this except that he's been kidnapped. Like somebody's taken him. There's no other explanation. And so she's just like terrorized by this. For two days, she remained within reach of the home phone at all times. Just waiting, like hoping, like probably frozen, right? Like hoping anybody will call. But instead, her brother Greg Sterling, who owned a funerary business called Sterling Mortuary, found a letter on the front step of the funeral home. And it was a ransom note from the kidnappers. Somehow they had taken Chad from his home in the middle of the night, days earlier without making a sound. And they were now demanding that $10,000 be left for them at a Greyhound bus station in exchange for Chad's release. They made it clear they would kill Chad if their demands were not met. And they also warned the family that they had a contact within the family who could tip them off about any police involvement. And that's fucking terrifying. Like also someone in your circle is a snitch and is going to tell us if you call the police, what the fuck? That's because you can't trust anybody in mind games on top of everything else. And on such a sliver of the problem, but like the betrayal trauma or whatever, two of like someone knows and or someone in our circle can't be trusted and has like potentially done harm. Yeah, and something really terrible. Those that a kid is in danger are facilitated. And they're not going to do anything about it. Yeah, oh my god. Ooh, I mean, it's chilling, especially when you're someone who's like in a community that's the whole point. I mean, both of these people actually, interestingly, it's like very much like community-based stuff, yikes. Okay. So anyway, Karen, of course, now her mind's spinning, right? She's like, who the hell could it could it have been? But investigators start to think like, well, maybe it's Greg, her brother, the one who found the note on the more true or on the funerary steps. So this would have been Karen's brother, Chad's uncle. And it seemed most likely, I mean, we know how this is like, abductions and things are most often by somebody close to the family or close to the child who's gained some sort of trust with the child. And so it made sense that somebody close to the family like an uncle would have abducted Chad because they could have taken him quietly without having to enter the home by force. So soon after the ransom note arrived, Karen received an anonymous phone call from someone who claimed Greg or brother had been kidnapped to be extorted for a drug debt owed by a family member. Okay. So now the Tyler police department gets the FBI involved because they're like, this is getting very complicated. And Chad's case is aired on America's most wanted. So things are lighting up, but the leads just go nowhere. The FBI question Greg about his potential involvement, the uncle, he denied it. He offered to provide a briefcase full of cash for Chad's release, like, okay, guy, banks go off king, I guess, whatever. The FBI organized a sting operation at the Greyhound station and Greg himself delivered the ransom. Also, okay, sorry. He did literally show up with briefcase. I had forgotten that that actually happened as it was so literally explained in his, his previous offer. But also if we think it's, if we think it's Greg and he just brought ransom to his own stick up and like, new nobody was going to be there, then it wasn't that much of a like a risk to put his money out there. True enough point. Yeah. Although then I don't know. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, okay, what town is this in? Tyler, Texas. Tyler, Texas. Do we know the population? Like, how big of a case was this for the locals? I mean, Tyler, I know Tyler, Texas, I think it's one of those like towns that's outside of a big town. Sure. Sure. Like one of those highs town. Yeah, I think so. I'm pretty sure. Okay. I see. Oh, it's known for its Rose gardens. That's right. Rose is. Okay. You know what, roses have been stalking me. And I almost, almost brought it up in the intro because we're bringing it up now. Rose is roses. I literally, I know because it keeps haunting me. And so every time I see a rose now and they're everywhere. And like, Leonna literally came back from the playground the other day and said, look what a little girl gave me. And it was like three roses. And I was like, what? Like, as she said, oh, she didn't speak English, but she just walked over and handed me these after we played in the sandbox. And I was like, that's so sweet. But like, everywhere these damn roses, and then every time I hear roses, roses that I fear that I'm creating this horrible loop of like my own reality is you're accidentally chanting a manifestation. I know. And it's, it's, it's harming me to the core of my being. Rose is real. Yeah. So Tyler, Texas is known for their rose production, I guess. But it's a population. Do we know that? Oh, 105, the 38th most popular city in Texas. Oh, holy shit. So it's huge. Okay. So, um, yeah, it seems pretty, I mean, everything in Texas feels pretty big. It's named after the 10th president of the US. Fun. Also, fun fact about John Tyler is that do you mean about, you know, like about his grandson? No. What's happening? No. Oh, John Tyler, he, uh, he like had a son at like 80 years old. And then that son had a son that like 80 years old. And so no, you're going to do this to me. So his grandson, Jeff, like his, he's like one of the earliest presidents. And he had only two generations away from his grandson who just died in like 20 or something. I remember when that was like a news article. And I remember my brain going, we're not going to comprehend this. So no remain, won't remain cognitive. So his, his great grandson is alive right now. That's crazy. Yeah. Live and well live in in Tyler, Texas. That's, I hope so. That'd be cool. If you were in the town, can you share the stupid dog? No. I'm not going to snitch on that beautiful baby. Yeah. Well, I will. He's running all of a place. Um, that would be fun if you lived in a town named after your like great grandpa. Yeah, you'd be such a fucking annoying, like, so you'd be like, that guy. And then like if he invites you everybody for dinner, he'd be like, we have to go like his great friend at the town, like we can't say no to it. I like it would be so annoying. You heard about the town and stop saying you heard about because you know I have it. And it's going to, it's going to make my brain hurt. What now? What now? The town Michigan, the town hell in Michigan. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know about that because Ohio loves to use that against them, weaponize it. Oh, it's, it's like for sale for like, uh, it was very um under under it's, I don't know what the right word is, but the number was a lot lower and they knew people would like fight to pay to be the new mayor of hell, Michigan. But they, they get to be the mayor. Is that how that works? It's like a, it's a very small town and the guy who like operates it. He like, he had like, I'm not kidding. He has an ice cream place called the screamery. He has a master misdophiles. Is that his name? It feels like that he's actually a tropical cat. I mean, honestly, he might wear those fucking contacts. There's a mini golf in hell, Michigan. There's like, it's a bunch, it's like one main street of just a bunch of little stores that he operated. And he's like, right or a tire and give it to somebody else who wants to run like a tourist attraction. And so you get to be the mayor of hell. And I, I did think about it, but I was like, I don't know if I really want to love a Michigan. But if I, if I was feeling, thank you, sound by, if I was feeling impulsive, which I got you a good sound. I, um, here's the thing. Imagine I'm the mayor of hell. We all know I want to be the mayor or something, be the mayor of hell where the main businesses there are mini golf and ice cream. And then Hank could be the hell hound. Please. Like are you kidding? Let's not be ridiculous. Like the ridiculous things that I didn't do it. Get Michigan on the horn. Someone call hell. Scrub the part where M said they never want to move to Michigan because hell is in Michigan. And by the way, I don't want to move there because I love California because I hate Michigan. But scrub that part too, because we might need that first part as blackmail. I just know that I saw everybody's, um, DMs to me. I did have a sit down with myself and think like, I could do this. I was like, I could do this for sure. One one of you was in a cape and one of you wasn't. And you were both like, all right, let's talk this out and be reasonable. I did think I was like, that would be kind of a great business opportunity. I feel like, as in that's why we shouldn't about it. And like made it into like comes to me with a business opportunity. I'm like, what town are we buying? We can't, like you and I though, we can't, we can't do something normal. Like, never, ever. I was gonna, I was gonna expand on that. But you're right. That's the end of the sentence. But imagine and that's where we drank owns hell. Like come on. Is this, is this another, are you doing a sneaky thing? Is this like a sneaky thing? Like I already put it. Oh my god, open your checkbook is zero. What's a checkbook? Oh, I didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. On my soul. Everyone hop aboard the mint mobile. That's a trick because if you haven't than what are you doing? Are you listening to me? - I think they were just on their bad Wi-Fi and on their bad phones and they just didn't even hear you. - Oh, they had no reception. Oh, I've heard that one before. - Right now, Mint Mobile has a summer sale. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited to free yourself from big wireless and their gimmicks and gotchas and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. - Yes, and then you don't even have to worry about hearing me because you'll be on the train with us. - Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless, made it right, premium wireless, $15 a month, all plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your phone and your number, which is super easy. They have three, six, or 12 month plans, so you don't have to worry about that monthly bill. I think it's worth doing folks because we've told you and we're on the train, so are you coming or not? - And to get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com/atwd. That's mintmobile.com/atwd. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com/atwd. There is no catch. - Upfront payment of $45 for $3, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 months plan required, $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot capable device required availability, speed and coverage varies, see mintmobile.com. - Where are we now? - Oh, God. - Oh, Tyler, Texas. I was asking about the population because I wanted to know if this was, like if it was a very small town, everybody would know about this. But if it's that big of a town, I feel like it's kind of getting like under the radar. Like people are catching off. - Yes, it's a pretty big town and it's, it got TV airtime, but even when the, I feel like the fact that the airtime on TV on America's most wanted like national syndicated programming, that didn't get enough leads like that was already a rough start. I agree, it's, it's a big deal, but it's not a big enough deal that it's creating enough frenzy around it to get an answer. So yeah, the leads were slim. Greg shows up with the briefcase and drops it off and investigators are waiting in hiding nearby and of course like the most dramatic thing ever, they're dressed as like, which I'm like, they're dressed as, they're disguised as like bus travelers, which I'm like, feels like you have to put effort into disguising your house as a bus traveler. I think you're already, I'm sure this feels like a heist. This feels like a silly little quest all of a sudden. - It feels like you're like, yeah, it feels like we don't, do we need to dress like go in disguise? I mean, I guess maybe it's not quite as like, it sounds a little comical to me the way that it's presented in the, especially when you watch any sort of like episode about this and it's reenactment styling. - Sure, like an obvious costume or something. - They're dressed, they put a mustache on. - But in our past, right? And nobody shows up to collect the ransom. So they're very good disguises of being bus passengers went to waste. What a tragedy. - So of course now they're like, yeah, well Greg, clearly you're like what you said, basically. If he were involved, like he would bring the money to prove he weren't involved, it's not really that great of an alibi. - Yeah, it's like, I can say right now, like oh, I'm, I found a ransom note and don't pay attention to the fact that it's my handwriting, but it says that I should give myself $100,000 and it won't ever leave the bank account. Oh no, what to do. - Oh, it's so nice that I happen to have this briefcase from Dealer No Deal. - Right, and it's, is he one of the people also in disguise for his own, 'cause then it sounds like, oh well. - Oh no, no, no, no, no. That would be criminal mind's tear, SVU territory. - Okay, 'cause I'm gonna say that, be so silly, he's like, and I know just the thing for myself to give myself money about the ransom letter I wrote myself. He's like, and this is my disguise, so boss Trump's letter. Oh my God, I put an eye, cat eye contact and we're good to go. Nobody will suspect that. - Nobody will ever, no, why am I not even me coming my own way. - And literally, literally so Greg, no fuck immediately, Greg, nobody, you are literally stand out on my way. So anyway, this Greg, they are, it's just horrible, it's horrible, Torrell. They suspected that somehow Greg is involved, whether he actually did anything harmful himself or whether he was just somehow facilitating like whoever was evading capture here, or perhaps he was like the inside contact mentioned in the letter, but they couldn't prove it, right? And so meanwhile, poor Karen is like dying, I mean, dying of a broken heart. Like she says she can't breathe, and every time she thinks of Chad, which I can only imagine every second. - Every second, that feels like a thousand hours, yeah. - Yeah, exactly, like she just can't breathe, she's gasping for air. And I mean, this goes weeks into months. So just like total turmoil for her. A year later, October 14th, 1992, Karen was leaving for work at 7.30 in the morning when she discovered a note on her car. But this is also so cruel, this like waiting between long periods of time and then like coming back up. I mean, it's haunting. - Yeah. - She was terrified. But like also there's this like hope, right? Suddenly like, oh, a ransom note, like maybe this will finally give me my son back or at least answers. Part of the ransom note read, "I guess you have suffered enough, even though he misses you a lot, he will never see you again unless you cooperate with him." - Jesus Christ. - Oh my God. - I mean, like, I have to. - I do not have a heart attack from the stress. - I mean, I don't know how she's even going to work at this point, right? - No, I just assume you don't go. - You have to if you were, what you have to, right? Like if you're, I mean, you've. - Yeah, I got bills to pay. - At some point, you have to live life, which is I think probably the hardest part. Yeah, so now she's just totally rocked by this. The kidnappers are demanding $6,000 and no police involvement. And they wrote, "Last time death came close upon your son because of your stupidity, because of police involvement claiming, you know." A forensics review of the note failed to recover any prints or useful evidence. And that was like it for years. Like basically they were like, we don't know if this is a hoax, we don't know if this is like real, but we can't do anything to prove it. And that's it. So this woman is being just tortured, right? Years pass and Chad's case goes cold. Karen, though, despite knowing the statistics about missing persons really, truly believed that somehow she would get an answer before she died. October of 1995, four years after his disappearance, a box was delivered to Chad's family. - I don't even wanna know what's in my box. - I mean, you don't see. - I've seen law in order. - The box never has a thank you note or something. - No, it's not worth anything to me. - Something good. No, no. - Four years later. - Part. - It is. - Okay. - It says, there's a note that reads, "You only paid part, so here is a part." - (gasps) - What part, your hand finger? - No, what? - His skull. - Okay. - There's nothing else to say except, okay. - I mean, I'm sorry, that's just like. - Sure. - Okay, here's also like this woman is literally in hell, like actual hell, and now this happens to her. And like the only hope, like literally the only hope she has left is like, this couldn't possibly be my literal child's skull. - Right, but just full denial, you have to. - How could you not, how could you like believe that? - You have to just pray, it's not. - That's all you have to pray. And so they do DNA analysis. Do you think it can't worse? No, because it's inconclusive. And they're like, well, so we don't even know. - So now no answers. - So now it's like, you have this new hellish option on the table that you didn't even think was possible. - Just a nebulous maybe, and then you'll never actually have closure. - So it just gets worse, yeah. - Oh my fucking god. Oh my god. - Oh my god. And he had been too young for like dental x-rays, so they couldn't even compare teeth. It's just like nightmare. So detectives involved Dr. Harold Jill King to examine the remains using forensic anthropology. And finally, like this is the forensic files, like, you know, spotlight, computer models, photos of Chad were able to kind of use, because this was such early days, right? A DNA testing, they weren't able to do that quite as well, but they were able to use like forensic models and determine that it unfortunately was, in fact, Karen's eight year old son. So that came back conclusive. And with that closure, yeah, I wanna say like, with that partial or with that answer, I should say. - Sure. - Karen, like her devastation turned into like rape. - Of course, of course. - And no one would blame her. - Right, no, no. I mean, it's just, yeah. But now there's like this certainty that Chad is gone, but also like, now months pass and there's no, and there's this rage, but no, where to direct it, right? 'Cause you're still like, who did this? We don't know. - Also, there is the, you know, my first thought when I asked like, was it like what kind of body part was it? 'Cause it's like, at least at least, which is like, I'm saying, that's so spirit. So, you know, take it, take it how you assume I mean the best, but at least he's gone and not suffering somewhere or being tortured somewhere. But you don't even know if he was being tortured beforehand. Well, my guess is that he was probably killed pretty immediately. It feels like with this kind of thing. I would still be so, my part of the rage would be me still not knowing how much he suffered or endured beforehand. Oh, 100%. And not having answers to like what happened, what he was going through. I mean, yeah, it's all, yes, it's just bizarrely a nightmare that like she just cannot wake from. Oh, my God. Yeah. And she's just like, I mean, to taunt somebody, it just feels so absurd that you would even be doing this, especially seemingly for like no reason. For what? Right. Like, like, who had a vendetta at all? That even this is so unwarranted. But like, who thought that she deserved this in a while? This woman right exactly. It's, it's just horrifying. So months pass again. And in the meantime, police had made arrests in a completely or at least seemingly unrelated case to armed robberies of a Texas credit union that took place in the spring of 96. And when they found out they had been caught on surveillance cameras, which were installed after the first robbery, Chris Wells and Jean Lindsay confessed to committing the robberies. And then Chris named Patrick Pat Horn as the organizer like the head haunch of both robberies. So Jean offered more information in hope of bargaining a better outcome for himself. And he described having some info on Pat, they're like leader. And he said Pat had murdered this 80 year old man named JC Levasser in a failed car jacking at his fruit stand. Okay. So you remember that first story. Jean told police that JC, who he only knew as the old man had shown them how to drive the truck, which is how it ended up down the road. And afterward, according to Jean, Pat made JC exit the truck. Jean told Pat to let JC go. But Pat said JC had seen their faces and wouldn't be allowed couldn't be allowed to live and was killed. Jean insisted JC would not be trouble for them and they let him go. But Pat wouldn't back down. This is at least how he's explaining this to the cops when he's like riding out his boss guy. Knowing they would not be letting him go, JC tried to run and pat shot him in the back of the head. And so now he's telling police this has like a bargaining chip, right? Pat would eventually be convicted for the robberies and JC's murder. But after being arrested for both crimes, he then tried to leverage information he had about a crime. So Pat says he has information on Chadwick's murder and kidnapping and murder. And this intrigues police because he is actually very close with the family. So oh shit. There you go. Karen had known Pat since he was five years old. He used to come to her house to play with her kids. He was actually just 17 when Chad disappeared. And so I don't think he was even on her radar at this point. Pat told investigators he had witnessed Chad's murder committed by two local drug dealer. So horrifying. Local drug dealers. Luis Carlos Castillo and Silvio Uloah Castanada. And I guess they were referred to as Carlos and Paco. And Pat said he had been forced to dig Chad's grave. This is the information that he's giving to police as like more bargaining. Investigators initially received alibis for both of these men. Carlos and Paco and they considered that maybe Pat was lying and he actually didn't know anything about the case and it had invented this story until a package mailed to Pat in jail was intercepted where he was incarcerated and inside was a child's leg bone and a letter threatening Pat against sharing any further information about Chad's case. And they sent that to jail and think like no one's going to notice this. Oh my god. Oh my god. Isaro. In desperation to know what happened to her son and like wanting the rest of his remains, Karen met with Pat during an interrogation. And in the footage of the interrogation she said I treated you like you were my son. Like he would come over and play at their house. Wow. Always welcome in my house. Fed you prayed for you. What about Chad? Do you want to see a picture to remind you? Don't you want to see his picture? I need to know Pat. I need to know. And when Pat sat still and said nothing Karen got on her knees in front of him put her hands on his shoulders and began to beg. Yeah. She said Pat Pat I've got to know. Oh my god. Oh my god. It makes me sick to my stomach. Pat stood up and began pacing, cursing and sobbing but refused to say anything. Oh my god. Tell her. Days later he told investigators that Carlos and Paco made him bury Chad in his own backyard. Oh my god. And in May of 96 he led them to the grave. And in a later interview Karen said all the years of hoping that he'd come home at that very moment, you know, it was over. And that was like the closure, the tragic closure, like not the closure she wanted, you know. So Pat's brother Keith and Keith and I don't even, I've never heard that name. Keith and was in jail elsewhere on a probation violation. And investigators on Chad's case spoke to him. He went by Keith who confessed that Carlos and Paco had never threatened Pat at all. In fact, Pat had convinced Keith to deliver Chad's remains to both Chad's family and Pat's jail address. And Pat told Keith to write the letters as well. That was the thing too for me was like why would this like we were saying that to like why is this person who's taunting this woman? It's clearly personal. Yeah. I don't know. Investigators finally concluded that it was Pat Horn himself who had kidnapped and murdered a year old Chad choice. And all of this is just like he had made up this sort of drug story to like cover up the fact that he had done this to like a little boy. Okay. So in autumn of 1999, eight years since Chad had been kidnapped from his bed, Pat Horn was convicted for Chad's murder and sentenced to death. Karen found no sense of peace in the sentencing. She said I have to say and a lot of people don't agree with me. I basically don't believe in the death penalty. Pat Horn's death is not going to bring Chad back. I would like for him to close his eyes and see Chad's face, you know, and realize not only did he take my baby's life, you know, but his is over as far as anything he could do successfully. Maybe we'll give him time to think about the havoc and the hurt that he has torn through this family. And ultimately his sentence was altered to life in prison because he had been under the age of 18 when the crime had occurred. There was like an un it was ruled unconstitutional to execute anyone who had committed a murder under the age of 18. So still, you know, didn't bring Chad home. His remains were used as evidence in Pat's conviction and Pat's defense team could request access to Chad's remains again in the future if they needed to, which also is just like an extra slap in the face that they just like have access, easy access for their own case like it's just kind of sick. My God. Due to legal technicalities, Chad's remains, which they call the evidence, cannot be released unless Pat signs a waiver. So like, basically, isn't that diabolical? Pat had signed the waiver, but it got lost by his somewhere between the attorney and the judge. The letter got lost, wouldn't you know? Pat needs to sign a new waiver if he wants to tap and sounds like he was talked out of it because he now staunchly refuses to do so. I'm sure his lawyers were not happy with the first time he did that. For more than a month, he refused to speak with anyone regarding the waiver and the assistant district attorney said, we have found ourselves in a very, very strange position because now they're like, where's the letter? Like, he claims he signed it somewhere got lost. Where's it? Oh my God, oh my God. But yeah, he just refused to say anything or sign another one. So Chad choice was finally, finally laid to rest in a family cemetery plot in 2003 more than a decade after his kidnapping, which like you'd think he'd be 18. Like, that's just crazy. Wow. Karen and Pastor Flora Cobb worked together with the Congregation at Christian Teaching Center to operate a new ministry called CHAD churches hour against darkness and they run a shelter called Chad's house, which takes in people in crisis. And that includes things like people experiencing homelessness, sexual trauma, substance use disorders, financial hardships, domestic violence, other people in need. And in 2007, Karen was still the director at Chad's house when she unexpectedly died at the age of just 56. Wow. But years later in 2022, Chad's family announced they once again planned to support their community and Chad's memory. They did kind of like an event, like a memorial event on his 30, what would have been his 39th birthday. His older sister Angela spoke with ABC East Texas about a new foundation that was going to help support children's hobbies. And she said that Chad loved sports and playing outside. And their mother would have wanted Chad to be able to try any sport in the world that he wanted to try and find out what he loved. So the cost of participating in all of these things is so astronomical sometimes, especially like when you think of the gear, the transportation, all that stuff. It's prohibitive to so many families. So the Chad Choice Family Foundation would work with families to make their children's like extracurricular dreams possible, which is very cool. Yeah, so that's like a really cool outreach program or like, you know, program that they're creating. Angela felt a responsibility to show support to families in crisis as well the way hers was when they lost Chad to offer like that same sense of community of people who felt like that shock way of go through their family. She said, I felt that our families needed to show a unified front because there are other families that have gone through a tragic situation like ours. And even more so from 1991 up to this very day, if we don't share and give back the way our ancestors taught his losses in vain and Chad's life is not in vain. It's just like, what the hell? That's so sad. Yeah, it's just horrible. But I mean, whoa, yeah, I had to whip out the sensory toys for that one. Oh, yeah, that was a tough one. I apologize. That was like a very, yeah, that was a very just devastating. It is. And, yeah, that's about it. Well, anything you're doing later today? Well, Leona has little Jim. So, you know, I'm going to maybe take a quick nap before that little Hell Beast is released upon me, you know? The whole piece is good. It's a good one. I'm going to go see the Odyssey. Oh, fun. I don't know how-- I'm only seeing it because of the hype. I don't think I would actually-- I can confidently say I'll never see it. Because I already know I'm missing my window to see it. I'll never watch it. But I love the meme. So, yeah, keep me posted. Good. I read it in like seventh grade. Me too, I think. I know. I know. Had way too many nerds roped to actually be paying attention when we read it. But-- I can just sense that my high school teacher, my middle school teacher, signed off on getting everyone some sort of field trip to go see my movie. Oh, you know, it's true. They're so excited. The Latin clubs. It's like, because I'm sure she also did that with, like, Bay of Wolf and all that stuff. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Bay of Wolf, I forgot. Oh, God. Yeah. Anyway, I must disembark. You only get that if you listen to the epia. Yes. OK. Well, I will-- I'll see you next week with even more sadness. I'm sure. Sounds. And-- That's why we drink. [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH]