E491 Medical Melodrama and a Shark Shanctuary

Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare, he ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first-time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that. You really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans, that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks, like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents. Because let's be honest, that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets. And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy. Just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters. Your pet, my little hankies, and to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. One more time, again, that's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. Hi, I'm Cassie, host of Tell Me Your Go Story Podcast. Each episode features someone sharing their real-life paranormal encounter in their own words. From haunted houses to strange creatures, messages from beyond to UFO encounters, each story is sure to haunt you. Like David's story, he delivered mail to a bustling hotel in downtown LA, but later learned it had been abandoned and condemned for years. Or Jordan, who woke up in a historic hotel to find a goblin-like figure staring at her. And whatever it was, it followed her home. And Evan, who left the first responders who saved his life, stunned. After accurately recounting what happened while he was clinically dead. Ready for more? Listen to Tell Me Your Go Story Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. As a frequent goer of the dog park, I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare, he ended up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first-time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog. In a moment like that, you really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks. Like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters, your pet, my little hankies. And to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. [MUSIC] My watch just said, you've achieved, you've reached your stand goal and I'm like very actively sitting on camera. There's like visible proof that I'm not standing. My watch just said, you've done it. Your watch is like, you go girl. Yeah, I think sometimes it's just like been prompted to give me little like pet talks. That's, honestly, maybe that's why I need to start wearing go watch just have some wearables. Wearable tech to just, yeah, improve boost morale, you know. Oh, Christine, what are you doing this? It's Monday. I, yes, everybody, obviously, something's wrong with my voice. But where? I don't notice it anymore. I feel like I heard it at first and now it's like gone for me. I can't notice it. Yeah, I think it's probably just me that's having the immediate warming to the voice. But I think like, I don't know, I think people will like it. Thank you. I'm just, I, we might as well address before everyone's like, are you sick? I don't know what I am, but it's just began like two days ago, a day ago, and it's not ending. So we're all just taking it for a ride. Yeah, we're all just going to see what, see where it takes us, you know. Yeah, yeah. We're the one who takes us. Where your breath takes us. Oh, yes, my, my breath. That's right. It must be nice. Let's talk about my breath. Well, are you drinking anything? Because you should be lubricating that throat if you do have this laryngeitis you speak of. Not that I've ever had. I clearly don't know anything about laryngeitis because I went, oh, no. Doesn't that hurt? And Emma said, no, it doesn't hurt. I think my understanding is that laryngeitis is just like the fancy word for you're losing your voice. And bronchitis is when you're like coughing, which leads to you losing your voice. I mean, I believe you. So I clearly don't know much of anything. But what are you looking? Well, you first you mentioned my breath and I thought I should show you my. Well, I didn't know that I would just kind of get that wasn't meant to be like an all youp into something worse. It was meant to be more like, you know what? We've reached the edge. Now let's come back. Don't even something worse. I'm still not over you. Not take care of my skeleton when I'm gone. I literally posted that and I was like, am I really the asshole? And then people were like, yes. And I was like, oh, were they really? Okay. People are my. It was it was definitely split. But I was cracking up because people were like, I mean, yeah. Kind of you're an asshole. If you won't touch your friend's skeleton. And I was like, if my dying wish all live. Okay. Like, no, we're not getting into this again. Because then we're going to get you know, you know, you know how your co-host gets when you bring up touching skeletons. All I'm saying is if it were your dying request, there's very few things. But like what if I said my dying request was to like shoot a puppy? Oh. I mean, I'm saying like, why would you say done? Like why on earth would you say done when I just said the world is my oyster? I could say the worst possible thing. I was going between the rolodex of joint ISIS. Like I had all these things and you said done. And before I could even spit one out. I think in terms of like the creepy crawly stuff, I would do most things for you. But if I had to commit murder, I don't know. It depends on if it's a puppy or like another murderer. You've joined ISIS undercover. Sorry. I'm going to summarize this. Yeah, it's funny. Anyway, I am drinking. I'm drinking. I'm drinking. I'm drinking three different things. My ADHD got the better of me today. Okay. I'm drinking a water. I'm drinking. I think I was licking was my, I have a London fog, but the place that I got it from had like a cold foam on top toast. They had a cold and I was like, and they just don't want you coming back. They just don't want you coming back. That's all. No, they had like a foam on top of it. I love a little cold foam. Oh, it's so good. It was a vanilla cold foam. Thanks for letting us watch you lick that off the lid. It was really nice. You're welcome. And the third one is a protein power drink thing just because I'm hungry and I need to fill the tone. Yeah, that's what kind of what I've got here. I've got like a smoothie again, but it's like, I've just not had it like at appetite very much. So I'm trying to get my calories in like smoothie form lately. I think it's when I stopped drinking. It was like, I just lost my appetite for everything. It was so weird. Interesting. And I'm still having to make you hungry. Kind of, I mean, I don't know. I think I was just in such a rhythm, like a very unhealthy rhythm that like I had a system going and then maybe. But also I was googling like in the middle of the night on incognito, like signs you have a tapeworm. So I don't know. I feel like I'm all over the place. But yeah, if anybody could maybe diagnose, no, don't do that. I mean, for fun, why not? I mean, for entertainment purposes only if anybody knows why I can't eat until like five p.m. And then I'm like, suddenly ravenous, but like only for liquid foods. It's really weird. That's interesting. A virgin to solid foods. And it was like, you're infant. And I was like, no, no, me. Me. That is interesting. And like there are, you know, situations where you have sensory issues or things like that. That go into adulthood. But I'm like, what about like sudden onset? Like it's not like I've never liked to eat food. It's just suddenly I'm very like a verse to like it makes me ill to even think about. So I don't know what that's about. And it's not like I'm like losing a bunch of weight. It's just like this weird bow. And then at night, I get really hungry. And I'll just like snack on like nuts. And I'm trying to like eat actually nutritious foods, which is why order these smoothies. But yeah, it's a weirdest thing. So anyway, I should probably go to the doctor. Yeah, good luck. I don't know. Who has time for that? No, I will use Okta. I promise everyone right now I'm going to use Okta. And there's no, that that ad is not even in this episode, but it is true. And because I'm not going to be calling anybody, let's be for real. A lot of mysterious ailments going on over here today. Yeah, wow. We're effed up. Yeah, something's going on. We're always kind of effed up. It's been a while since we've had like melodrama regard medical melodrama. A TMTM, TMTM, TMTM. I'm wearing my TM bracelet. I knew it. I wore my TM bracelet and I said today we're going to TM something. I betcha. You nailed it. You nailed it. You nailed it. Well, if you're comfortable talking to me. about it. Just because you mentioned it, how is your journey, your sober journey? Are you having a. Thank you for asking. Only if you want to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. It's been like something I don't really think about, which is the most shocking. Yeah, it was the day that I realized I'd stop checking the days that I was like, "Oh my God." What day did it get to before you stopped counting the days? I think. Well, remember, it was on air with you that I was like, "I forget," and you were like, "You don't know what your 100 days are something," and I was like, "Nope," and then I missed it. So it was like in the 80s or 90s. So it took a couple months. The other day was the first time that I got really down because I passed like something, and I had like beer. I was having a really, really bad day, and I saw like these like beers or something, and I was like, "I would literally do. " I would touch M Skeleton for a beer. I know like something. I would take. I would break my sobriety for a nice cold beer for a. I would do that for you just for that. No, but in that moment, I was like. It's really hard because in that moment, you're like, "What's wrong with me?" And then it's like, "Hey, it's chill." I got home. I have some non-alcohol beers, took a few steps, was over it. But in the moment, like your nervous system is like freaking out. And he's like, "It's the only thing that'll fix it." And you just kind of have to learn to like sit with discomfort, which is like my least favorite thing, and apparently the thing that comically I meant to learn the most is to just sit in the discomfort of changing in of life, I don't know. And so I'm. It's okay. It's going okay, and I'm very pleased that I've connected with some people. If you've messaged me or DM me, I haven't. I've gone through some, and occasionally, I'll open it and go through a few, but a couple people have messaged, a lot of people have messaged, and I'm really kind and supportive, but I just have barely the bandwidth to get myself to a doctor and eat anything for breakfast. So, I'm sorry that I'm not responding, but I'm so proud of everybody else, too, who's like, "You know what? I was looking for a sign, and then you were like, "Hey, if you're looking for a sign, here's your sign." There were a couple of people who said that, and I was like, "That's so meaningful." You know, just that alone. Anyway, but thank you for asking. It's been good in that. It was hard. The hardest part, I think, was deciding it and committing to it, because then I was like, I can't go, but it was this weird mental block where I was like, all right, doors are closed. But yeah, after a few months, I'm not having any cravings, except that one time for the beer. And they make really good non-alcoholic beers, so that really solves that for me. But yeah, what are you drinking today? I have this smoothie with dates. I know we discuss that. Dates and peanut, like very caloric things to try. You're like, I'm just trying to put anything in my body at this point. Yeah, well, I just want to eat, like sometimes, Gio and I just eat cheeses at two in the mornings. I'm like, I haven't eaten and I'm so. It's really effed up. I'm sorry. My hormones, I think, I don't know. I'm all over the place. I need to see a doctor. I'm aware. It sounds precious, though, just the two of you at two in the morning just. It is. Some things never change. We have a lot of moments that, yeah, exactly, that I'm like, that are precious, but also they're just like routine. Does he just wake you up at 2am now for your cheese at run? He literally two nights in a row has woken me up between the hours of 1 and 2am. So thank you for asking he has. And I don't think I realize why he also has changed food. So I think he has to go potty. But like, also now I'm realizing it is when I start snacking when he wakes me up. So maybe that's. Maybe we're Pavlov at each other, you know? Sure. Sure. Oh no. Oh, it happens. Do you have a reason why you drink? Probably because I can't get any calories except through candy, cheeses, and smoothies. That's a good reason. Thanks. That's a very good reason. I mean, it's better than. Oh, I sang in my feet. It's better than wine, right? All my calories for wine, but maybe that's why. Maybe my body's like, where are normal calories, you know? I mean, it does sound like you used to get your calories from a liquid and I are like, let's do that again. True. Like, it's just. Yeah, that's a good point. Why do I drink? I. Oh, because I have a tapeworm. That's why I drink. Because I've gone to the most extreme WebMD middle of the night option. I would like to know more about your tapeworm. Thanks. I mean, I know so far we don't know anything. But if there's an update, I sure would like to hear it on whether it exists or not. Well, see, here's a dangerous thing. My brother joked, "For years about having a tumor in his brain." And then he literally had a tumor in his brain. Whoops. So it's sort of like, hmm, self-fulenged prophecy, or he just like medically knew that that was there. I don't know. That's so weird. I have friends who also recently discovered that they have tumors on their brain. Was it on their pituitary? I don't know where it was. That's for his is, which also was his third eye. And I was like, "Oh, my God." And he's like, "Don't fucking start with me." And I was like, "You're right." Oh, my God. No. Mine was. Is he okay, by the way? No. Okay. I mean, he's just trying to find a doctor who will look at it. And it's like, nope, it's been years. It's been like, he found out actually when I was in Egypt. So. Well, yeah, almost a year. That's horrifying. Yeah, it is horrifying. And I'm like, and nobody will fucking do anything about it. It pisses me right off. I. My friend who is also dealing with something similar. We only call each other when something bad's happening. And so when I saw her phone ringing, I was like, literally, I answered it and I went, "What happened?" And she went, "Well, now, brain tumor." And I went, "Oh, okay." Yeah, take a guess. Apparently hers. I don't know how science works, but I guess just by looking at it through her skull, they can tell it's benign, that I would. I don't know how that works, but apparently hers is okay. So hopefully his is okay, too. I think it depends, too, like how big it is. Sure. Yeah, his is pretty small, but they said it could be affecting hormones because pituitary is for your mom's. And he's, you know, so anyway, I don't want to put air all his medical stuff, but this is stuff he's already mentioned on, be sure to see any so. Well, all right, we'll all send out a little, like. Yeah, maybe it will. It will. It will. It will. It will, I mean, well, I have a tapeworm. No, you don't. Curse him. Yeah, at this point, don't complain. You have a tapeworm. It's okay. You know what I'm saying? I don't even think I have a tapeworm. I'm making that up. I'm literally inventing that. Yeah, but for the story, I'm gonna need people to know that it's fully an existing It's probably exists. I feel like maybe maybe I don't say that now. I'm going to get free just boiled just coiled I'm getting. I'm going to get it. I'm going to cut it up. I'll talk about eyeballs and belly buttons if you don't shut up. It's a fair I know you're weakness. If it helps the toe nail murderer. The cuticle shredder. Yeah. Oh my god. Oh my god. If it helps, I'm constantly making fun of Allison and saying that I think she has worms just because anytime there's a stomach trouble. I'm just like. Why would that help and be explain yourself? Please, they're not alone that there's everyone's got a worm thing. I don't have worm. Okay. You you have a lovely way of words. You're such a work. Don't worry. You and Allison both have worms. That is not okay. Sure. Yeah. Every time I I have tummy troubles, I blame the worms. Even though I don't think there are any. So you could just blame the worms. Anyway. Where are we? Oh, I was going to say the reason I drink is because Hank is I know it's delayed everybody. Don't yell at me. He is in training now. Oh. And because he's been a bit of a bad boy lately. What did he do? Nothing like violent, but he is reactive. And at the dog park, he is like. And at the dog park in general, he's a big barker. But like to a point where it's a problem. Like he's like in the face. Like he's like his idea of trying to get the dogs to play with him is to bark and lunge at them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know. Geo does have any small. So it's like less upsetting. Yeah. Hank is a wrought wailer and he's in the small dog park, you know. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like roles reverse, not not probably not good. Not cute. I mean, so luckily he has his own little group of friends where like I think it's like it's helpful and bad that he learned from some of the dogs and who love to rough house. Yeah. He learned that that was acceptable. So now he tries to do it. I just stopped taking Geo to the dog park because I was like, well, he plays with some dogs and then some get too violent. It's just like I couldn't trust him anymore. Yeah. The dogs. I just was like it's not working. Well, I'm very lucky that like the people that I go there all the all the time at the same time. So everyone who has like small dogs like they all know that Hank is like not a threat. And like I can literally hear at the on the other side of the park. I'll hear him like bark and lunge at another dog. And I just hear how their hang owners go Hank stop it. Like cut it out Hank. Like I know nobody's worried, but I'm worried about the day when we're in a new environment and that happens or somebody brings a new dog. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And he's also because I was taking him to the small and timid dog park when he was freaked out about everything. And then that's where he ended up making his friends. So now he's still going there. And he's not he's not the only big dog there. There's there's other big brave dogs there that just get along better with small dogs. And I think I accidentally tricked him into thinking he's a small dog because now anytime there's a dog his size or bigger, he like doesn't know what to do with it and starts like barking and won't shut the fuck up. And like I think he just doesn't see as like a size preference when it comes to dogs. And anyway, so we're working on that for the dog park. But then Allison, I do the dog park. Allison walks him. She's got her own whole list of things that she wants to work on with him. But it's a lot. She'll be good at that too. You both will be very good at that. I feel like like - Yeah, we've had our first session yesterday. And he's very smart. I know it'll be fine, but I'm just like, ugh, this seems like it's gonna be like a long road ahead 'cause it's just a lot of little things that we wanna correct. Anyway, so anyway, I dream because it just feels like it's gonna be a bit of a headache, but anything for him, I guess. - Oh yeah, baby. - That's all I have to say to you, except for my story. - This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Domains. We have you Squarespace since we started the podcast almost 10 years ago. Actually, in the Sheldon's Fourth Manor, we now have two family members using Squarespace because Allison and her jewelry business for just craft just started using Squarespace themselves. She was like, "I really need a website." And I said, "We've never had a problem with Squarespace, you gotta use them." With Squarespace, your domain comes with everything included from the moment that you register. You get every feature, every tool, everything you need to manage everything for your website, just in one place, from email forwarding to domain renewals. You don't have to worry about going elsewhere for any of it, it's all in one spot. And now you can not just secure your domain without any extra fees. When we were starting our website, it would cost all this extra money just to have the rights to the name or to the URL, but Squarespace has that handled. And your domain includes advanced built-in security and privacy protections with an activity log. So you know everything that's going on your website at all times, you never have to wonder when something changed at all. And with Squarespace, you also can unlock a full suite of tools, not just the website builder, but email campaign, scheduling, all of that from, again, just one place. It's really wonderful. We love Squarespace. We have been singing their praises for a long time. And that's because for the last 10 years, they have only gotten better and better and better. So please go check them out. Check out Squarespace.com/drinkforfreechirile. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a domain. - I found a good one for you today. - Thank God. - I know. - So it was a bad one. I would've just hung up. - Well, it's just so hard to find the solid, solid ones now. I got to spread them out. I got to make them really count. And this is not that the other ones are bad, but like when I tell you the topic today, you'll know why, 'cause almost 500 episodes, Chrissy, that's-- - I cannot believe it. - Crazy. - Also 491, my lucky numbers. (sighs) - Happy 491. - Thank you so much. - Okay. - It feels nice. - I have a wild one for you too. So-- - Look at us. - Let's buckle up. - Do you have a request for 500? Do you want to say it now? But if you think of one, let me know, 'cause I'd like to-- - I looked at the calendar last night and I was like, I saw episode 500 with like a bunch of exclamation points. And I was like, well, I think that's a sign for me to start thinking about it. So, 'cause my brother and I recorded our, wait, that's weird. My brother and I recorded our 400th yesterday. And I forgot completely, like completely. And so, that's gonna happen if I don't think about it. You know that already about me. I will not know. - I do. - I will not know. So, the exclamation points did clue me in. So, let me-- - You don't have to know now, but give me an idea. - I like-- - You got like brain storm. - Nine weeks, so-- - Don't do tapeworms, I'll kill you. - I will not. I will not. This is a poltergeist story for you. - Ooh, okay. - And it's in your town. Well, it's in your state. Do you know the town Olive Hill? - No. - Okay. - This is the Olive Hill poltergeist. - Oh my gosh, I've never heard of this. - How far away is Olive Hill from you? - I just said I've never heard of it. - I know, I expect to-- I don't know why I expected you to look at it. - I'm like, I'm not ALEXA if that's what you're asking me. - It's two hours from you. - Which direction? Like what part, what part? - It's near Ashland, Wellington. - West Virginia? - Oh, yeah, like so you'd like Appalachian kind of-- - Yes. - Getting close, yeah. Okay, cool. I love it. It's so beautiful down there. I love that drive. - It's very pretty. - West Virginia starts to get scary a little bit, but and West Virginia makes fun of Kentucky, and Kentucky makes fun of West Virginia. So you know what? - It's shocking that there isn't more of a rivalry between Virginia and West Virginia, but they are, they're, they're, they even share a name and yet are so different. - I think that's, yeah, what? I think that's why. Then Kentucky and West Virginia are very similar. So they get really mad at each other. - What's, I think West Virginia and Western Virginia are very similar and interesting. - But like Fredericksburg is very different than West Virginia. - Yeah. - And then like, 'cause like DC area, I mean, yeah. Makes sense. - So all of Hill Kentucky, which is two hours from Christine, and this was in 1968. So the two people that you have to care about right now are John and Aura. - Okay. - And they are retirees living in their house. And they're, oh, their last name is Callahan. So sometimes it's been called the Callahan Poltergeist. But okay, John and Aura. So in 1968, we start strong. They're sitting on their couch and above their couch, there's a frame picture of Jesus. And of course, you gotta start a poltergeist. I mean, it's like fresh into like, if you wanted to start a horror movie, start with a picture of Jesus. So I was just thinking of Kentucky, but yeah, also horror movie. Yeah, it really fits both. - It literally writes itself. - Kind of both, yeah. - So, okay, picture of Jesus, apparently written on the picture of Jesus, it says, "Christ is the head of this house." - Oh, lovely. - Literally meant for a movie intro. - Mm-hmm. - The picture cracks on its own. - And that is the beginning of, I'm just gonna call it Hell Week, because throughout the week, it's very similar to things happen only at very quickly escalated. So there's mirrors, light bulbs, dishes, even more picture frames to start shattering in the home. - Oh my God. - All in the same pattern, which is interesting. I guess they noticed that the cracking pattern on them was similar to if it had been shot in the center and splintered outward. - Ew, so it's like one pin point in the middle, like a bullet hole sort of. Ew, that is so creepy, dude. - So much shot, Jesus. - Because, ew, I hate that. And also that visually is so creepy, rather than just, oh, the side cracked a little bit. - No, it's like, pfft. - It's like right in the middle, outward is wild. - Yeah, it's very odd. - Weird. Then the washing machine also starts freaking out. - And just like-- - It's getting shot. - It's getting, you know what? - It's not actually freaking out, too. - That's so funny, you mentioned that. I hadn't put it together. But one of the problems with it was that they kept hearing loud bangs from the inside. So-- - Oh, dear. - Which like, I guess you could say is like my weed pen rolling around in there, usually is what. Like when that happens, I'm like, oh no, I've done it again. But yeah, I guess this could also be that. - No, paranormal gunshots. - I feel like I imagine it's like flying in the air and levitating and it's just playing that fuck ass three minute long Samsung song. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that always interrupts like the most intense moments of your life. - So the washing machine is literally shaking and freaking out, just like how other objects are flying around, despite this being super heavy, it literally levitates from the ground and starts shaking as if energy's trying to get out of it. - Ew, ew, ew. - Or she, this is a bit of a long quote. But it, and also the, it was a fragmented quote where like I got one piece from a different article and other piece from a different article, but it's all talking about the same situation. So I just clumped it together. So, or says, things began to break all at once. I didn't know what to do. I got up and went into the bathroom and a bottle of bath oil flew against the wall and cracked like a shotgun. - Oh my God. - Later in the day, I started my washer and it boomed inside just like a shotgun. I knew all the granite would be broken off inside but when I opened the lid, there wasn't any damage. Things would break and we're just sitting there looking at them with no one touching anything, no one near them. And then it got to a point where now we're just leaving things to let them lay where they fall. Like it was like, whoa, it was like the blank might as well. Nothing we can do about it sort of thing. - Yeah, like it was happening so frequently that they stopped just even trying to clean it up. They were like, well, okay. - So that's interesting because of course, I thought like washing machine Samsung did it, but like I didn't and we'd pen, but I didn't think like, oh, 19, what year's it, 68? To even have a washing machine, I feel like it's a big deal, especially in like Eastern Kentucky. It feels like that wouldn't be normal but then the granite, maybe it's more like a. - Like an original washing machine. - Like a crank one, I don't know. I made a washboards in there, yeah, I don't know. - I'm sure that maybe, but I just that thing about cracked granite. I'm like, what kind of washing machine is this? - That's a good point. That's a good point. And those sounds fancy though. - Those were in the same quote too. So I didn't, yeah, I don't know about the ground. - Oh, I got to come from. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only a few days later, they, I said they weren't even trying to like, really like clean the stuff up and re-hang it or anything, they just kept buckets around the house and would just put the shards in them. - I feel like that's how I live. It's like, with a four-year-old, it's like, I don't even bother putting stuff away. I just kind of like have piles. I'm like, just, we'll get to it. - A doom bucket, you just have to have it. - Yeah, once the tornado finishes, then I'll get to it, yeah. - So they had buckets around the house where they were just tossing-- - That's why. - Shattered pieces in. And this is all within one week. They were, it went from nothing's going on to all of this. - To the Jesus cracking and then like, - Yes. - Oh, God. - Crazy. - At the end of the week, good for them, they flood the house, they moved. - Oh, I thought you said flood. And I was like-- - Oh, no. - Excuse me, they flooded the house. Okay, they fled, fled, fled, fled. - They fled the house, which like, I know that not everybody has the ability to do that, but I like how in every other Poltergeist story, I'm like, get out as soon as you go. - They never get out. - Yeah, they never get out. It's nice when the trope of like staying forever, it doesn't happen. - Right. I don't know if you know these locations, but I guess all of Hill, I guess the neighborhood they lived in was called Henderson Branch. And then they moved to another neighborhood. - All of Hill Henderson Branch, okay. - Yeah, and then they moved to Zimmerman Hill. - I don't know. My understanding is that there are two neighborhoods in the same town. - Okay, okay. So I think there's like very small towns over there. So I feel like it's probably, yeah. It kind of makes together. - Okay, cool. Would you, if it sounds like a lot of these places are just last names and then like a nature thing. Like, - Really? Just my name. - Zimmerman Hill. Yeah, would you be like, she for trunk? What would you be? - She for trunk. She for valley. I don't want to be a valley. Because then I'm like, that sounds like so deep, get it. What would yours be? - I think I'd want to be like, well, I don't know about the last name Shults, but I like the idea of like some sort of water thing, like a river. - Oh yeah, that's good too. That's good too. Or what about like a cat, canyon or something? - Ooh, I do that. - Like, you know, it's a thing like, cavern. - Is there anything alliterative with Shults? - Oh, good, or Sheifer. - Or Sheifer. - The Sheifer Shults? - Shanksuary. - Shanksuary. (laughing) - The Sheifer Shults wilderness Shanksuary. (laughing) Shark Shanksuary. I mean, I mean, with love, that's what it would be now. - It's a Shark Shanksuary. So I don't know what anyone wants to do about it, except just accept it. Thank you. - I love that. Thank you. - I knew to ask, okay. - Yeah, you were right to ask. - The Sheifer Shults Shanksuary, okay. (laughing) - Shanksuary. - Okay, so they are still in the Olive Hill area, but they move within a week. And the very first like day I'm thinking, or at least within the first week of them moving into this new house. - Oh no. - They see an apparition of the first owner that lived in their last house. Like the person who-- - What's he there? He's like, "Oh, thank God we got out." And they're like, "Wait, you weren't invited." I feel like he's like a historian to the holiday in. Like that's not fair. - Yeah, so I don't really know where to place this, or if I was even gonna mention it at all, but the theory later was that some researchers think that the original owner of the house used to kind of like, try to make contact with spirits. And so maybe he stirred something up. But that wouldn't explain why like when, we don't have any records of him being haunted, or like the many years that the family lived in that house before this week. - Yeah. - But so there's a lot that I did just kind of pop, who was like, "I'm out of there now. I've attached to you guys. I've hitched a ride with you guys." - Maybe, a part of me is like, for the first time in my life skeptical, where I'm like, maybe they just had a dream of like all the people who had to live there before them. It was like, I don't know. I don't really understand. It was a very fleeting moment where they said like, "Oh yeah, then we saw the original owner of the house." So I'm like, "Why don't we speak on that?" - I mean, there's not much to say. - I guess. - Except he hitched a ride. - I guess, I mean, honestly, your theory is the funniest. So I'm just gonna stick with that. - It's also the correctist. - That helps. - He, but so they saw him. The theory goes that he made contact with spirits and might be responsible for this. I don't really know about that. But so they saw him as soon as they moved into this new place and then as soon as they saw the operation of this guy, the activity starts all over again. So it's almost like he, if you want to play that game, it's like he cursed them into the activity. - He gets all around, I don't know. - I see, okay, okay, okay. He like symbolizes the cycle starting all over again. He's like. - Maybe, or like I took it as like all of the haunting spirits of the house followed you. And so like one night you saw a previous owner another night. It was. - Oh, you're being stupid. - I don't know if I did buy all the previous. - I guess I don't know. - Screeb situation. - Well, so they, they see that guy. The next day activity has clearly followed them because the objects start breaking again. They know pretty soon objects are gonna be flying around the room again. Like we know this old story. Yeah, get the buckets. - The tale is old this time. - Yeah. - Friends and family were over at the new house, including their 12 year old grandson Roger. Roger becomes a pivotal character here. - Oh, I bet. - And not to say that he's responsible for anything, but just like he's gonna get mentioned a lot. So remember the name Roger. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And he's 12. So the friends and family are all over at the house, probably helping them pack or unpack. And objects are flying everywhere. There's heavy furniture flipping itself over. Dishes are shooting itself across the room. Picture frames are spinning on the wall. Apparently like a chest of furniture, a chest flew at Roger. An end table flipped itself. Family figurines floated in the air and then go straight to the ground. There was one quote that I saw from one of the grandkids who was like, I saw this figurine in the air and it clearly floated there because I was then able to look at my cousin and then look back at it and then it dropped. - So it was like, you see in this? Oh my gosh. Wow, that's crazy. - Some of them got hit with projectiles. Some items swirled around other items and then landed back in their original spot. - Ew. - So there was one case of like an ash tray that picked itself up, floated across the room, went around a lamp and then came back and sat back down. - It feels like a weird like trick you would buy in like a magazine from the 1960s. Like a magic kit that you would buy in a catalog or something and then like learn magnetic tricks to like levitate stuff. - Fishing wire or something. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like trick, fool your friends. - Yes. - Yeah, yeah. - But wow, but I really don't understand how that would happen, so. - I have no idea. And this one, I don't know why it's, others certainly should be scarier to me, but this one freaked me out the most was that they saw plastic cups that were stacked on top of the fridge slowly drifting down from the top of the fridge. So like it's almost like they got picked up off the fridge and then just one by one slowly drifted down to the floor. - Oh, what? - And when they put them, when they stack the cups back up and put them back on the top of the fridge, then they flew across the room and the fridge moved itself. - Ew. - I don't like it. - I don't know why that one freaks me out more than like. - It gives me chills. - The projectiles hitting children, but. - There's something about the polter guy stuff that's like with the, I don't know, like with the stacking and the perfect symmetry that is so unsettling. - And I'm like inhuman, you know? - And I think about how silly the ghosts must actually look. I imagine a kind of like a movie set and like you could see all the people in like green screen costumes, like just carrying things from place to place. - It's like covered in, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's like it's really not that scary if I could see how stupid you look picking this up and putting it over there and then putting it back, you know? - Highling quarters on top of each other in the middle of the hallway. - I don't know what you have anything else to do. But yeah, it's still so eerie. The things moving slower after they've clearly proven they can go faster. - Yes. - I hate it. - Yeah, not good. - In the next few days, a stray cat also started coming by, but then very quickly refused to ever go near the house again. - Oh boy. - And then more apparitions appeared. Namely there were two of them, both Aura saw. And she also saw the produce on her. - Yeah. - She saw both of these next apparitions, the clearest, although there were witnesses before or after. So let me explain. One of them was her brother who had passed 14 years earlier. - Oh god, okay, wow. So something, yeah, weird, okay. - So yeah, it's almost like things got brought over from the last portal or something. Like, yeah, it's strange. - Something like that. And so even though she saw this apparition, apparently her son also later saw this apparition. - Ooh, so he saw his uncle then. - Yes. - Okay. - The next one, which makes very little sense to me, Aura saw the ghost of a Catholic nurse. So she looked like a nun, but she was also a nurse. But she had like, she was wearing the habit, she was in all white. And I guess Roger, he, before she ever saw it, Roger said that he saw something white in the yard running behind a tree. So we think that maybe he. - It was just a rabbit. - Yeah, I could have just been like a fucking turtle boat. I don't know. (laughing) - Wow. No, listen, hold on, rewind. Now that's newsworthy. No, but yeah, that's creepy. But if she's running behind trees like that is horrible. I refuse to believe that's a Catholic nurse running behind the trees in the back yard. I can't believe that. - Unless there's a medical emergency behind the tree. - Maybe that's the only soothing thing 'cause I will not sleep if I think about that for another second. (laughing) - So apparently, despite my turtle buff claims, this Catholic nurse was taller and bigger than most people. So like really towered over her. - Oh, okay. - It was while she was, I guess, sleeping or in her bedroom, a basketball bed. She like towered over her. I guess one of them touched the other and Aura said that she felt very cold. And when Aura ran out of the room, a cabinet in the kitchen tried to slam into her. - Yuck. - Yuck. - I'm Rachel and I have a new show Woo-Woo with Rachel Dratch. It's an otherworldly comedy podcast where I, along with my co-host Irene Remis, talk to my funny friends about their own experiences with the eerie and the unknown. Psychics, spirits, astro-rejection, [BLANK_AUDIO] Check and check. You may think we live in a world where there's a logical explanation for anything out of the ordinary, but after you spend some time with me in my pals, you might have your doubts and find that you too are woo-woo. - You do the love shirts come for us. - Our lobster overlords come. You heard it here first. - Join me for a podcast that turns the mysterious tales of my funny friends into a spirited conversation. - Search for woo-woo with Rachel Dratch, wherever you're listening now. (upbeat music) (snoring) - So, desperate for help, the family, they went, I guess, as public as you can and the 60s in a small little town, and side of a small little town, but they reached out somehow. - Well, there's a lot of hills, so you could probably stand on top of one of the hills and just hauler, you know? - They had some, they hauler down the hauler, yeah. - Exactly. - The Sheefer Schultz hauler. (laughing) - See, I would love also hauler, although I feel like I'm appropriating 'cause I didn't grow up in haulers, so. - With, yeah, even though, yeah, you were pretty close, huh? - I do graphically, but not graphically. I think haulers started like an hour and a half away from me. - Okay, okay, okay. - Yeah. - I have, people who were lived in West Virginia came to my college and I remember them saying they lived in a hauler and I was like, "Tell me everything." - You're like, "That's a real thing." - Yeah, it's like, like, what do the poo are you thinking? - Well, I moved to DC for college, and everyone was like, "You're from Ohio. "Did you own like a cow?" And I was like, "No, I don't own a cow." What the fuck? - I, yeah. No, like, anyway, that's a story for another day. - Yes. - So Desper for help, the family reached out and somehow it got through the grapevine to a local college. Basically, they said, "We're looking for any fucking help. "Please God help us." - And more head state university. - They are one of the first colleges that had a paranormal club. - Whoa, I didn't know that. - It's called the S-I-S-P. I don't even know if it still exists, but if someone is a part of it, let me know. - You literally, it froze from when you said it's called and then it completely froze and then it came back at, but if anyone's part of it, let me know. - Yeah, it's like a two-thousand millisecond for me to throw it at itself. - It redacted itself, yeah. - It literally just bleeped it out. What was it, so let's-- - Let's try it again. - Yeah. - The S-I-S-P or society did have a camera? Nope. - Okay. Society for investigation of supernatural phenomena. - Wow, yeah, it totally redacted. That's crazy. How cool though, I did not know that. - Yeah, so I hope it's still, Kaken. And they found out about this. And I'm sure if you're like a college club who wants to prove yourself and it's about ghosts, you know they jumped on that. They were like, "We have the culture, guys. "We think we have a poltergeist." I mean, come on, I jump on that. I'd be like, "I'm joining the club immediately." - If there was a poltergeist two hours from here, I'd be like, "I don't know if I'll go myself, "but I would love to know somebody who's there "and maybe take some videos from me." - No, I would for sure watch the live stream of some content creator's live stream of the event. - Yeah, we see each other. - And then we would yap a bat at later from the company where our homes enact. Like, we were there. - Why don't you just leave? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's perfect. - So, one of the main students involved in this, at the time, I think he was one of the founders of the club, his name was Ed. And I only say his name because it sounds like he was kind of the leader of the bunch who all ended up going over to the house to check it out. So Ed and the gang, they, this was their version, I guess, of like an investigation, but it sounds like a lot of what they did was kind of just research deaths in the town. And I guess that was to see how they might be affecting the land that the house was on. - Yeah, okay, I feel like I could do, like, I'm down, I feel like I would try to figure out who it was, maybe, but I guess, I don't know. - Well, it's a good angle. - And I mean, there's students, and there's very little, I mean, there's no internet, and there's no other people to talk to about this. I guess they were going with what they had, which was the wide range. - The last machine's made of rocks, so like, I don't know what's going on. - I'm not hesitant to bring them up because they are a part of the story, but I'm hesitant to really dive deep into their theories or like their methods, because it just sounds, I don't, I'm not, like, trying to judge anybody. It just sounds a little-- - No wonder they were adapted their name. They're gonna find a sue you in a minute. - Well, these days, I'm sure it's like, simply with the power of internet. I'm sure that they could like-- - Technology, right. They have more sources. - No, back then, like, what else, I mean, if you're devoted and you're reading books, I mean, that means, you realize that means that they didn't watch YouTube videos, they literally had to read books about this shit, which is pretty legit. - No, that's for sure legit. - For sure, I get some quite a bit of credit, I think, but. - So, I guess the way I'm trying to phrase it is that like, they came up with a lot of information, but I don't know how it really connects to anything. - Okay, okay. So they just, yeah, found like, background history. - Like, they were like, this happened here and this happened, and it felt like a lot of their theories were kind of leaps. - Okay, okay. - To try and make them connect. Like, so an example is that there was a death many years before at like a coal mine or something like that and the same company where there was that death, another worker once lived in the house of John and Oro. And so it's like. - Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Like a little, like, what is that? - Like, it's just like a lot of stretches. Like, they were around. - They don't also really solve anything, I guess. - Right. Or like, when they, when Oro saw the appersion of her brother who died 15 years before, his wife, I guess, maybe had some mental illness and was institutionalized and they tried to use that as a reason for like, everyone else was like losing touch with reality with all these poltergeist activities going on the house. Like, it was just like, they were just trying to connect dots where they were trying to find dots and then trying to connect them, you know? - Yeah, they were creating dots. So yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And so they did go to the house and they did observe a lot of stuff. And I just think they're reasoning for a lot of it. Just doesn't totally click for me. - Sure, sure. - So one of the things that they did do, they researched the town. They also went over to observe what they could and eventually other investigators got involved as well, which really muddies this up because I don't know who saw what. - Okay. - So I'm just gonna say the investigators, but it could mean this college club or it could mean like, investigators in Durham, North Carolina who had like much more advanced technology, they went on to be like prominent figures in paranormal research. So it's quite a gamut and everyone seems to have been in the house at the same time. - Oh, I see. So they're just in and out like gathering anything they can. - I think so. - Okay. - So it's a confusing who's who. But the only thing I'll say is the one that really matters, I guess is one investigator who was a part of all this, his name is William Roll. And he becomes like a big guy in paranormal eventually. So. - Okay, okay. - But I'm just gonna vaguely say investigators from that one. - I feel like you should go by Billy Roll. - Yeah, sure. I like that. - Billy Roll. - Jelly Roll, Billy Roll. You probably hated that. - No, it made me, I was wondering if I should go on a tangent or not and I'm gonna say no. - I'm saying that guy probably hated it. - It probably hated the nickname, yeah. - Someone called them Billy Roll. - You know, he hated it. Investigators, blanket statement. They wondered if the spirits were connected to Roger because Roger seemed to have developed a sixth sense with all of this activity. He was able to predict incidents before they actually happened. - This is a child, yes. - He's the 12-year-old grandson. - Okay. - So an example of this is he would say like some things about to happen or things will start up again soon and then they would. - And then he found his kit that he bought from the catalog with the fishing wire. - And then they found all of his magnets in string. (laughing) - I mean, it's happened before Fox sisters, anybody? - I know, and you know, I had it just been the college club and this was like there maybe one of their first like, right, their first tries at this. I would have thought maybe they missed something but when this other Durham group of investigators came where they were professional paranormal investigators and researchers, they said that they tried every sort of test they could and they could not find strings and all this. So one time they were also recording a conversation with Roger about his experiences in the house and very weirdly, the recording of Roger's voice was interrupted by three very strange sounds and then the tape went blank and didn't record anything else for the rest of the interview. - No thanks. - So that was the first time that they've been theorized. Well, maybe Roger is at the center of this but it's not intentional. Maybe something is attached to Roger. - Yuck. - One thing they noticed was that Roger's senses were actually getting stronger. It seemed like he was getting stronger or more attuned to the activity. - No, I don't like this. - And John or the grandparents, whose house is originally affected, they were getting physically weaker. Now I will say they were also like in their 70s and 80s maybe they were just exhausted. - That could be explained, I suppose, yeah. But I would also say like maybe Roger's getting more confident and he's getting quite a lot of attention with people coming in and out asking questions. - Well, he's not even going through puberty, probably just to say like, if it's 12, I don't know. - But so their observation was will he's getting stronger and they're getting weaker so maybe we need to separate them and then we'll see. the activity follows just him. So investigators kept them away from each other and put Roger just back at his own house and the activity stopped happening at the grandparents house. So it did seem to follow Roger. But one night, like it didn't just follow him, like a little bit, like the the grandparents ended up getting a phone call from the house saying like you don't have to worry about anything like all of that activity is for sure over here. Wow. Objects were flying like crazy furniture was flipping. All the same stuff that was going on at the original house. One of the stories was that the parents of Roger who had already been witnessing everything going on, things were about to start flying like they saw items just twitching as if they were about to take off. And they started just grabbing things off the table and just throwing them on the ground before they could start flying. Yeah, that is so creepy dude. Like the concept of like oh, shit, that's about to go flying and that becomes normal to you. Yeah. And just being like I'm going to be you to it and just start on the floor. Oh no. Another time investigators were in a room with Roger. His back was facing the television. And on the television, there was a bowl of fruit or a sorry, a bowl of flowers. And that bowl of flowers was sitting on top of a doily, which was on top of the TV. Is that makes sense? Classic. Classic. Yes. So Rodgers aren't even looking at the TV or anything. He's in the room. His back is facing all of that. But they hear this loud crack and the bowl of flowers and the doily that it's sitting on top of both lift themselves off the TV, throw themselves behind the TV. And when they go and look, it's sitting perfectly as it was with the flowers all still arranged perfectly in the bowl on top of the doily on the floor behind the TV. Then is there talking about how that could have happened, a clock that was also sitting on the TV, then flies across the room in the opposite direction, like four feet or something until it lands just at their toes. See, it's like that kind of shit. And also what's freaky to me is that like if flew across in the opposite direction. So you can't even say, Oh, there was a shift or something. Right? Yeah, no, it's that's creepy. I mean, and like he's 12. So that is the perfect age, right? Like puberty, like for poltergeist, like that's when that happens. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's that teenage energy. You're onto it. So another time Roger claimed that the table was going to flip over. Apparently when he said this, he like just stared off into the sunset or something. The table, his eyes like went to the middle gaze. Yeah, to the ether. And five minutes later, the 60-pound table not only levitated, but rotated itself 45 degrees and then landed on top of the chairs in a way where if you were to take like all four dining room chairs and have them kind of close enough to each other, the table was bowled up. Yeah. So that's not cool, man. So the table landed in a way where none of its legs were hitting the floor. It was bouncing on the chairs. So after that's like literally immediately had a flashback to those like we used to build like coaster with coasters, like try to build with coasters. Yeah. That that's creepy dude. I don't like that. It's one thing because if it was like a 12 year old kid and he's doing this on purpose with his little strings and all this. Yeah, exactly. A 60 pound table flying over your head and landing exactly on the chairs, on your first try and for everybody. The fact that he said that and then like I hate that they have to wait five minutes. They're like, when does it happen? At least that time he said a table slipping over versus like something will happen. Because if they were sitting at the table, it's like, yeah, get away from the table, you know? Yeah. The second night here, the table slipping over. I'd be like, well, I'll be in the other room with the tables. I'm going to Walmart, actually. Bye. So another table a different time through itself over them, like over their heads. This was after he predicted something would happen at 1 a.m. And at 1 a.m. is when the table flipped itself. Oh my god. Objects flew everywhere. There was loud knocking that came from nowhere, shelving toppled itself. And at this point, Roder's parents, they were like, fuck this. We think that either there's a demon attached to him or you brought the demon investigators. And they're just like, I think trying to find blame anywhere they can. So they told the investigators to leave. They were like, you're clearly not helping. So just go. Now apparently Roder's parents are Jehovah's Witnesses. And they reached out to their group of people and the Jehovah's Witnesses came over and said, okay, we agree that something's attached to him and we're going to host an exorcism. Oh dear. As juicy as that sounds, I don't want you to get your hopes up for anything fun coming out of this because it's kind of just a one sentence beat. And I'm like, why didn't we talk more about this? But they host apparently host an exorcism that included burning a lot of his personal items, thinking about. Oh my gosh. I know. So imagine being 12 and traumatizing to every extent. If I were 12 and there was a poltergeist and someone burned on my clothes and favored items, I'd be pissed. Yeah. And then they told you, oh, it's we're only burning them because there's demons attached to them and you. Oh, thanks. That helps. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. So they host an exorcism. Apparently, it doesn't even work. So he had all the stuff burned for no reason. Super duper. Eventually, the family, I guess, just gives up and they're like, okay, we're going to move into what happens. Oh, they move. Okay. And so they, which I guess doesn't make a lot of sense because it clearly didn't fix anything the last time they all moved. I guess desperate times. I don't know. Desperate times. But they, I mean, this time they moved out of the area and like entirely, like they moved out of all of Hill Kentucky. And the activity ceased. So that then led to like to this day, locals say, all of Hill in general is haunted. Sure. And then that feeds into like giving the college investigators like a lot of validation because they're like, okay, so all of our research on why all of Hill in general is haunted makes some sense that they were going to be haunted no matter where they were as long as they were in this area. So it was a lot of like confirmation bias that all of Hill is just a haunted town period. Investigators had a lot of theories about where the activity came from. Like I said, a lot of it felt like stretches. So I'm not really even going to entertain them. But the main running theory, which came from Billy Roll, who he at the time, he was just starting out when he investigated this. And now he's this big prominent figure, but his whole special interest is psychokinesis or like moving things with your mind. And so his big theory was that Roger was responsible for everything, but that he was dealing with a specific type of psychokinesis called RSPK, which means recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis. The recurrent meaning it's happening nonstop and the spontaneous meaning it was not intentional or conscious. Right. So it may have actually looked like poltergeist activity. This is a big poltergeist theory that what are the odds? A lot of poltergeist activity happens in homes where the family has pubescent or about to be pubescent children. And all of that energy swirling around them makes them have emotions or anything. Especially in like homes with like charge situations. Like I've heard stories where like one child was very ill. And so it added so much stress to the family and like or like a divorce is happening. Yeah, it gives me chills. So that's become the running theories that Roger did not know he was responsible for this, which feels like I guess we're alleviating half the victim blaming here. But it goes with most poltergeist theories that he was just responsible for it with psychokinesis. And they actually reached out to see if he would come to the lab with them. Like the investigators after they were told believe they said can he at least come back and we can test his psychokinesis and we can work with him at our place. And the parents refused. They were like we want nothing to do with you. And that was kind of the end of that relationship. Yeah, I mean, I especially feel like in a Jehovah's Witness community. I feel like that's not really like the vibe. Don't send them off to the lab. Yeah. They're not going to send them off to the lab. But they will do an exorcism. So that's fantastic. But it's their exorcism. Yeah. So the investigators in total, I think they documented like 200 incidents in these few weeks that they were there. And Roger was present or at least in the room in some capacity for 180 of them out of how many at a 200. Oh wow, yeah. So that I mean that feels right. And I'm rounding up. It's like 170 something against 190 something. I'm saying 180 to 200. But so they were like, he's probably involved. And after this, Billy Roll, as he grew in his career, he has stated that Roger's case of RSPK was one of the most authentic cases he's ever come across. Wow. Probably just because there were so many witnesses and there was no explanation. And that was like intense. I mean tables flipping and stuff. They're ducking. Yeah. So anyway, that is the Olive Hill poltergeist. Geez. I can't believe I've never heard of that. That's freaking crazy. Yeah. And now next time you're rolling through Olive Hill, you go, this whole town is honored apparently. Oh, I've heard. I've heard on good, good, good authorities. Yeah. All right. Well, I have, I found this creepy crampus coloring book that we can look at some cool imagery and maybe brainstorm five topic first 500 in the API or if you want. Oh, wonderful. All right, everybody. Things are about to get weird because we have a new inside joke now, as of five minutes ago. As of within the last five minutes, well, I did lose my cell phone, oh, here it is. Do people still say cell phone? Sometimes I wonder that. Like, because I normally, yeah, I would say I lost my, all right, I can't find my phone, obviously. But for some reason, sometimes I'll say, where's my cell phone? And I'm like, does anybody say that? Or is that just me like being a relic, you know? - You're cellular device. - Right, my mobile. - Cellular telephone. I mean, I call it a P home, so I really don't get to. - Yeah, why the fuck am I asking you? - I know. - No, my, and in Germany, they call it a handy. Like, my hand-- - Oh, that's fun. - Yeah, so I'm always like, that's a good one, but I don't know, cell phone, if that's weird. - I think I'm at an age where I wouldn't-- - We wouldn't batten, I probably. - No, but I'm sure others wouldn't. - I see, yes. Oh, well, you know, frankly, my dear, I just don't give a damn. So, as long as you don't have a problem with-- - I don't care at all. - Me saying cellular device, then we're okay. - I just do not. - Excellent, all right. So I have a story for you today. Oh, by the way, when I said we had an inside joke, don't worry, you're gonna be part of the inside joke very soon, 'cause that's part of the story. Unfortunately, I've already warned him. Okay, so this is a very famous case that I have heard about a million times and am excited to cover, and I'm realizing right in this very moment would have been perfect for episode five. (laughing) - That's okay, that happens. - Because it's also called the UBA County Five, and we really could have done some puns. - Oh my God, wow. - I'm a little bit like why didn't I, because also it's such a rabbit hole that I made myself limit the information because I was like, I don't go on forever. And I don't, you know, so I've limited the information, but I feel like I could speak on a lot of it. So if you have any questions, let me know, but I'm gonna give the full background of the case, and it is creepy, and it's like really frickin creepy. So this is a group of five boys, but they're technically men, young men from UBA City and Mary'sville, California. Their names were Ted Weir, who was 32, Jack Medruga, who was 30, Bill Sterling, 29, Jack Hewitt, 24, and Gary Mathias, 25. The five of them were close knit, and collectively they were referred to by their families as the boys, which by the way, not like the TV show. I don't know if you watched that show, but that show. - I have heard. - It is traumatizing. - I have heard. - I watched it, and I really feel that some of that has contributed to certain nightmares I have. - It sounds bad. - It sounds really violent. - It's upsetting. - Yeah, I'm a very good, it's a very good show, but it's very, you have to be in that proper headspace. - I mean, I obviously love a superhero show, but I also really don't like having anxiety when I'm relaxing, so-- - Oh, really? I've never heard of any other way, but anyway. - Well, all these people are like, "Oh, what do you mean you don't watch Grey's Anatomy or anything that makes you cry?" And I'm like, "Why would I choose to cry when I'm trying to rest?" Like, I don't need to have dark, bad thoughts in my head right before the event. So that's why I feel about violent stuff, too, where I'm like, if I see it, then I'm gonna think about it online. - Yeah, it's disturbing, and I didn't realize and then there's a lot of shock stuff, and I think my system is so not used to that because I never watch tour movies growing up. And so to me, I'm like, oh, I can handle really fucked up stuff, but I'm not necessarily used to shock value, to the shock factor part. And I don't even go to the haunted houses. I don't engage in any shock factor stuff. So that part really threw me, and I think I'm literally in this moment realizing why I think it has stuck with me so much is because I'm not used to that. But like, it's a shocking show. - That's funny, the shocking stuff, the shock, the part of it is nothing for me, but it's the emotional part of it. - Yeah, and it's disturbing. Like, but it's so well done, but it's so disturbing. You know what I mean? Anyway, okay. - Anyway, shout out to the boys that are not these boys. - Not these boys, but like, you know, same quote unquote name, but they were called the boys, and they were very close. Four of them men, and a part of the reason they were called the boys is that they were young in a lot of ways. Four of them, we are Madruga Sterling and Hewitt, had mild intellectual disabilities or developmental delays. We genuinely do not know the details because this, I spoil our alert, takes place in the 70s, and so the verbiage used back then, like leaves much to be desired in the way of like nuance and any sort of understanding besides like, they're slow quote unquote. - Right, they're like something much worse, yeah. - Right, that's just what their parents, how their parents described it. There wasn't much more detail that you can find except, they were all, you know, very functioning. They lived like, they did all live with their parents, but they were all two different degrees, like very successful in whatever they were pursuing. Gary was the only one of the boys who did not have a disability. He was a US Army veteran who had been given a psychiatric discharge and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. And so he didn't have, you know, he was in a sort of, he came from a different group than some of them, some of them met in the program I'm about to get into. But he had been in the US Army, he was discharged and he had been prescribed daily anti-psychotics. And by February 1978, Matthias was considered by doctors to be basically like, a medical, not medical miracle, but like a total success case. Like he was so stable and so like successful in his just daily life that doctors were like, this is fantastic, this medication works great. And he was stable at the time of this incident. So it's just important to note that. He was living at home at the time. He was working in his stepfather's gardening business. All five men played for a local special needs basketball team. And the name of the team was the gateway gators. Cool. I know, it's pretty kick ass. The team was scheduled to play their first tournament game in Sacramento on the morning of Saturday, February 25th, 1978. And all five men were like jazzed about this because the winners of this tournament won a trip to Los Angeles. And like the team literally won tickets or the trip to Los Angeles. So like they were excited. And to the point that they were like bugging their parents about it because they were like, don't make, don't let me sleep in like, you know, like laying their clothes out early. Like they were just so very sweet, very jazzed and like very ready to kick ass. So they had everything set and it's just so chilling. I don't know. This run reminds me of like what's the story? I can't believe I just forgot it. But the young man from who vanished in California and he drove off. Oh my gosh, I'm like the disappearance of right. Not, yeah, Brian, let's be safe. Let's piece this. Yes, that's the one. It gives that vibe where it's like they just drove away. That's crazy. I know with and with five people, five people. Wow. OK, so around 6.30 p.m. Jack Madruga picked up the other four men in his 1969 turquoise Mercury Montego. And this car was like this teal turquoise color. He took pristine. He made sure it was pristine condition. It was his prize possession, like his baby. Nobody else was allowed to drive it. So Jack picked up his friends, the other four guys, in this Mercury Montego. They drove roughly 50 miles north to California State University, Chico, because they were scheduled to go see a basketball game together between UC Davis and Chico State. So their team won. They were thrilled. Cool. Around 10 p.m. basketball game ended and the men left the arena. We know that shortly after that, they stopped at a place called Bayer's Market, which was a convenience store near the campus in Chico. And we know this because they had purchased snack food there. They purchased a cherry pie, a lemon pie, a snickers bar, a marathon bar, two bottles of Pepsi and a quarter and a half of milk. That's what's interesting. I said, this is how we know. That's not how we know. And we know is because the store clerk remembered them buying all those items and was annoyed because she was trying to close the shop and they were like five guys, like causing, you know, mayhem in the store picking candies and stuff. So she was like the last verified person to see them alive, right, obviously not knowing that in the moment, but just that was the last time anybody saw the five men alive confirmed. So the direct highway route from Chico back to their homes in Yuba City should have taken roughly 50 minutes heading south. They had maps with them. They knew where home was like they were going home to sleep before the big game tomorrow morning. They were excited about it. They were excited. Super excited. That's where we need to understand the weirdest part, which is that instead of heading south, they began to travel far to the northeast into rugged, high elevation terrain toward the plume is national forest. >> Okay. >> The middle of the night rolls around. And one of the moms is anxious because her kids supposed to have come home by 11 p.m. And these are young men who have had to establish routine in their lives, right? Because they live with their parents and their parents have had to help facilitate adult living for them, and they've all varying degrees are independent. But they have routine. And so they're not going to just all five be out in the middle of the night, like partying it off, especially when they have like the game tomorrow, they just aren't. So when the mom wakes up and the kids not in bed, she starts calling the other parents and lo and behold, none of the kids have gotten home. So by Saturday, the police are alerted to the disappearance. - Do we know that they drove off into the forest or do we know that their car drove off into the forest? - So great question. You will shortly find out, yes. So not too long after that, a cup, well, I mean, it was long in that the parents waiting nightmare amount of time because Saturday was when they alerted police on Tuesday, February 28th, a U.S. forest service ranger located Jack Madruga's Mercury Montego parked on an unpaved snow-covered forest road inside the Plumas National Forest. The car was located roughly 70 miles away from Chico and 4,400 feet above sea level. So like far off of any logical path to Ubicity, it was just sitting there, unlocked. The driver's window was rolled down. - Was it near anything where like let's say somebody took their car and then clearly needed it to drive all that distance. Is it near anything that they would have wanted to drive to or it's just a van in a desert? - It's not abandoned, it's basically a big wilderness. So like yes and no, like if you were going camping and you wanted to like find a particular camping spot maybe, but also there was a blizzard on this night. And they're from like Chico, California. They were not supposed to be driving into the mountains. They weren't even dressed for that. They were dressed for a basketball game. - And so is someone trying to abandon this car in the woods? - It's just so strange, right? Because also when they take a look at it, they find all the wrappers. Well okay, they find all the wrappers of the candies then stuff they had bought at the convenience store except apparently the marathon bar was like not finished which I don't know what that says about a marathon bar. - What is a marathon bar? - Hang on, well please. - I don't even know how to be honest. - It doesn't look good. I don't want to finish it either. - No. - A chocolate covered braided caramel. Oh, so it's like-- - Oh, I know those, I think. - I know the British version. We'll do the curly whirlies as the British version. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, all right. Well, I don't know why you wouldn't finish that. - Yeah, I don't know. So they find all the wrappers and the keys are not in the ignition. So at first they're thinking like, okay, maybe the car died. So the police hotwire the car, but it starts immediately and it has a quarter tank of gas. So it didn't run out of gas, engine fully functional. They looked underneath the car. No dense, no damage, meaning like whoever drove this had been driving very carefully and cautiously. So they assumed Jack had driven it because he took such careful care of this car and it had clearly been like driven very slowly up this mountainous road for some reason. They found no damage underneath. The tires had spun a little bit in the snow, but it was so out in the, it was not in a spot where it would have been stuck. Like five men, especially they were like very able-bodied, they would have been able to pretty easily push this car out. - They were in their athletic prime, it sounds like that. - Right, exactly. I mean, they're training for a basketball game, exactly. So it wasn't an issue of like, oh, their car was stuck and they couldn't get out and there was no other option. Like, so just really strange already, right? So as this had happened, a severe blizzard, like I mentioned, was hitting at that exact time. Feet of snow were coming through and for that reason, search and rescue teams were also unable, once after they'd found the car to do much until they, the snow melted. So now we fast forward to June of 1978. The winter snow is melting. When motorcyclists contact police and say they had been riding off-road and they had stumbled into a US Forest Service trailer near the Daniel Zink campground, the trailer was located roughly 20 miles from where Madruga's car had been abandoned. And when they approached this trailer, they immediately noticed a smell of decomposition, which is why they looked inside, they saw a body and they contacted police. And honestly, if they had not discovered this, just kind of off-roading that day, I'm not sure when. Yeah, this would have gotten discovered or been discovered. Police arrived inside. They find the body of Ted Weir. He's lying on a bed. He's been like neatly wrapped head to toe in eight thick, heavy cotton blankets. He, the autopsy revealed he had died of starvation and hypothermia. And when they found him, he, so before he had disappeared, he was six foot 200 pounds. He, at this point, they estimated he had lost around 80 to 100 pounds and was now about 100 to 120 pounds. That's, he had starved that rapidly in a matter of weeks, slash months. Oh, my God. They used his beard growth to indicate how long he had been alive in the cabin, which is just also so morbid. And his beard growth indicated that he had survived inside this unheeded trailer for between eight to 13 weeks. Oh, my God. Yeah, he had starved to death over those months and had also suffered frostbite and his shoes were missing from the house. Here's the strangest part, which a sheriff's deputy called Bizarre as Hell. This trailer was an emergency forest service trailer and it had been equipped to the gills to keep people alive. What the fuck and they, he didn't use any of it? It, some of it, like it get, oh, it's so chilling. Okay, so inside the trailer storage lockers, there were dozens of unopened sea ration cans of food. There was a propane tank outside that all you had to do was like turn a knob. There was enough food in these lockers to keep all five men fed and warm for over one year. Wow. All five of them. And there are disputes on whether all five were at the cabin at one point or not. It's very much giving yellow jackets, speaking of another disturbing show that is very good, but also like requires proper state of mind. How many people have we found so far, too? Just one, just one, okay. Yeah, we found the car and then now we found Ted. In the cabin. In the cabin. Yes. And they found that only 12 to 15 cans were ever opened over like a two to three month period. And now they had been open with a military style, it's called a P-38 can opener, which only two of the men would have known how to use because they had done military service, which was Gary Matthias and Jack Medruga. So maybe Ted didn't know how to open the food? Exactly. They would have been, but also there were like fruit cups and other rations. And also like he had been suffering from this frostbite and stuff, but there was a propane tank right outside the building. And so it was strange that like nobody, especially if somebody was able to use the military can open or somebody was able to use it to open 12 to 15 of them, you'd think they would have figured out the propane tank or to bring it inside and heat up the place. There was also, there were matches, a fireplace. Like none of this was used, which is so strange. Now they also found fruit cups, other rations, paperback books, like just stuff that was there to keep the place livable, yeah, exactly. Like an emergency shelter. And none of that was touched, which is so strange to me. Even at any level, it's just strange. So when they found his body, of course, so tragic, they found next to him his ring, his necklace, his wallet with money in it, we're all on the night stand. There was a watch there too that didn't belong to him. And when they asked all the parents, they were like none of our boys owned that watch. So nobody knows where the watch came from. Like it could very well have just been left at the emergency trailer by somebody. - The last person I was there, yeah. - Exactly. So we don't necessarily know if it meant anything, but it was like laid out with his jewelry, which was interesting. Wears shoes were also missing from the trailer. Like I said, but in the trailer, they found Gary Matthias as sneakers. So police theorized that like Gary had been there and was able to open the cans and that kind of thing. And if he were also suffering from like swelling feet from frostbite, maybe he put on wears boots because they were bigger and more comfortable, you know, to wrap his feet up and put his feet in, which I think makes sense. And if he were to leave the trailer, He's clearly not in it when they find Ted. So it's like, the other guys she's remissing then. - Precisely, yes. - And then he went missing and never came back. So he couldn't open anymore of the food. - That is my theory, is it? - Yeah, that makes sense. - I think that is my theory because, but you'll see, there's like so many rabbit holes and like twists and turns that, I mean, there are like multiple hour long YouTube videos that I watched, but was like, I cannot, I cannot do. Like maybe for the 500s. Oops, but like, you know, it's a lot. So I'm trying to stick to most just like the basics, but yeah, you can go down so many rabbit holes and like there have been like investigators and online folks who've been obsessed and in healthy ways, maybe not so healthy ways and have tried to get to the bottom of different parts of it. So you can really dig into it, but I'll give you the most, the big bullet points here. So regarding the other men, Monday, June 5th, so that was the following day. Researchers found the remains of Jack Madruga and Bill Sterling. They were on opposite sides of the mountain road, roughly 4.3 miles away from where the car had been abandoned on route to the trailer. And so when they found the bodies, they had been heavily scavenged by animals. The cause of death was hypothermia. So it's presumed that they didn't make it past four miles on the walk to the trailer. And there was a snow plow of some sort that had gone through and paved an actual path. So there was a path that they were able to walk, but 20 miles during a blizzard. And these kids are not, these young adults are not like dressed for the elements. Also, none of them had any, like this was one thing, I found interesting. None of them had any like outdoorsy experience. They just weren't the type and they weren't interested. One of them had gone camping a few years prior, but then like said, no, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, didn't like it. - Understood. - Yeah, relatable. But no, so they found these two. And some people think like maybe some people, I listened to the stuff you should know episode on this, which I will always be embarrassed for calling it things you should know. Stuff you should know did a good episode on this case, but they mentioned like they were just, they had both seen different facts about this that maybe Ted had gotten sick or was really not well. And so the boys all went to get help. And that's how they died. But I think the prevailing theory that I've read is that the two boys didn't make it, or three didn't make it on the way to the trailer because they found two four miles from the car. And that's a long hike for not being prepared in any way. - Was there like, this is stupid. But like, could they've been like attacked by a bear or something? - No, 'cause their cause of death was hypothermia. So then, so the two that they found, yes, the one in the cabin was starvation and hypothermia. - Right, no, the other ones that they found out on their way. - Yes, so the two bodies had died of hypothermia. Both of those men had died of hypothermia and then animals got to their bodies afterward. - Afterwords, okay. - Yes, yes. - There was a blizzard out, so there was like, no, it was just a total like snowstorm when they were out there. But also like, again, why are they going up there? They have a car that's functioning just fine. Like, why are you walking up here? It's like so strange, all of that. - Could it have been because it was so cold that their car stalled or something? And like-- - No, I mean, like they just, they just hot wired it and turned right on when the police came. So I don't, and he like knew his car, you know? Like he was very, I mean, I can understand him maybe insisting like, I don't want to drive my car in this, but also like, to get out at midnight in the middle of a snowstorm and a walk. I mean, so it's been argued, right? Like, well, you know, they had a disability and it's like, sure, I guess, I guess. Yes, that may have played a part. It's just really unclear how much of a part and like, wow. - Yeah. - Do you know what I mean? It's really, it requires a lot of nuance because you just hear different angles from all the different families and like, they were all dealing with different. And yeah, it's just strange. And like, they were all very close. So it's like, they had such a tight bond. Maybe they were just trying to stick together, you know? It's hard to say. - Also, with some of them having mental health factors, you don't want to like, use that as the full reasoning of like, what their judgment or what their ability to make decisions was, especially when they're panicked and scared. - Right, and that's the other thing is like, yeah, maybe it was a situation where they freaked out. Like, maybe they hit a snow, you know? Like, maybe they spun the car or something and were like, who knows, right? - Could there have been a situation where they were, like, how far away was the car from the cabin and all that? 'Cause could they have gone back out to the mines? - 20 miles. - Look for the car. Okay, 'cause I was gonna say, maybe they went to look for the car and they just got-- - Oh, to go get the car. - And they just got spun around and they just could find it. - Well, no, they were on the right path. They were just only four miles. - Oh, well, yeah, maybe they were trying to get the car and they just didn't make it. - Very well could be. I think the prevailing theory is that they didn't even make it to the cabin. Like, they died on the way to the cabin, which I'm not sure of that. That's just where I read in most reports. So, man, that's what I think happened. And then they had to leave them obviously behind and keep walking this path and then find the trailer. - That has to be so sad to watch you just fucking leave your friends in the snow. Jesus Christ. - I know, oh my God. - So, now we get to the point of like, whether Matthias is like, whether his schizophrenia played a part or not, it's like, well now, his daily anti-psychotics are not here. So whether he was stable at the time of disappearance and by all accounts was healthy and had no issues. And then all of a sudden, like, he's out in the wilderness with none of his medication in a traumatizing situation. Like, so who knows what happened, right? And he had had post-army. He had had several, what his dad called, like, hysteric fits or something. Like something like so old school where he called them just like, oh, another one of those, like, hissy fits, not really good, or something like that. We were like, okay, then. - One of his spats or something. - Well, yeah, something like where you're like, I don't think so. But so, basically, he had had incidents before, like violent outbursts. And that's why he was medicated. And the medication was working very well. But obviously, it doesn't bode well to know that he has had off medication, has had some very violent and paranoid, you know, outbursts. So, or whatever, whatever dad wants to call it. - Sure. - So, this is probably the creepiest part to me. - God, it keeps getting worse, Christy, I thought you were-- - No, I know, it gives me chills, it really is. So right around the time that they're discovering the car, Joseph, local man named Joseph Shones, comes forward to police. And he says he has a really odd story to tell. And it is a really odd story, am. So, just like-- - Okay. - Makes my stomach feel weird. I don't know. So, he stated he had been driving up a mountain road on the evening of February 24th to check his cabin, but his truck got stuck in a snow bank. And so, he is getting out. Actually, it says truck, but I'm pretty sure he drove a Volkswagen Beetle, so I don't know why I wrote truck. But I'm pretty sure it was a Volkswagen Beetle. - It's currently truck. - Yeah, super specifically. Yeah, like my other car is a truck. Okay. But so, he, whatever, whatever sources is what I use, but he got out, and he was attempting to push his car, and he had a heart attack. He's beginning to suffer a heart attack. And so, he climbs back into his car, turns the heat on, and it's like, I know, like I'm just gonna, like, wait it out. - Jesus Christ. - Because it's a middle of a blizzard, right? - Oh my God, oh my God. - So he's horrible. - Horrible. - Oh my God. - So, he just kind of lays in his vehicle in severe pain with the heater running, and is like, I hope someone finds me before I run out of gas, basically. - Jesus. - He claims around 11.30 p.m. that night, he began to hear whistling. - Okay. - He got out of his car and saw headlights, parked a ways behind his truck, and heard a group of people approaching, and was like, oh, thank God, I'm going to be rescued. He saw what he described as five men, and a woman holding a baby, holding flashlights and walking up this, like, snowy hill. - Okay. - To me? - He says he called out for help, but they immediately all went quiet and turned off their flashlights. And he kind of like. - To be fair, if you're mid-heart attack, you're yelling for help, probably just sounds like a, like a, probably scared them. - I probably did scare them, yes. But I feel like if you're like, hey, I need help, I've had a heart attack. - Oh, was he verbalizing? - Well, I don't know, I'm just kind of moaning. - Well, no, 'cause I mean, I will say true. It was, okay, good question, because they also mentioned this on the podcast that he, it was a mild heart attack, and he, the next morning was able to walk like eight miles back to where, I think it was eight miles back to where he had last, like, had a drink that night before his car got stuck. So like, it was mild enough that, like, by the next morning, he was, like, walking eight miles. - Okay, I do. So he was probably verbal, that's right. So I think at this point, he probably was able to, like, at least express, like, "Hey, something's wrong. I need help," whatever. But, anyway, like, they turn off the flashlights and go quiet. He says, "Nobody would answer his Christ for help," and he eventually got back to the lodge and was able to seek medical attention. And police are like, "Okay, like, I don't know what this, at first, when they told, when he told them this, they were like, I don't know what this has to do with anything." And he goes, "Oh, on the way down, I saw a car as well. It must have been theirs." And they were like, "What kind of car?" And he said, "Well, it was this teal or turquoise mercury mantego." And they were like, "Oh, shit." And he's like, "Yeah, it was just empty sitting there." So basically, now, there's like a sighting, like a potential sighting. And with a stranger involved, like a woman with a baby. Which I could, I don't know, obviously, what happened, but I could see hallucination. Oh. Oh, sorry. That's what they call it. That's what they think it's a medical hallucination. That, like, maybe he just was seeing thing, like, but also then I'm like, "But then why did you see five men that was a correct description?" But then just like. My thought was, I could have seen someone, like, if they maybe, I don't know their ability to make judgments or anything like that. But if they were missing this basketball game and, like, all this stuff that they. I could see them at the gas station meeting a woman with a baby who said, "Help, I need a ride." And then it just. She just kept going, and going, and going, and going into the woods or something. And then feeling like they couldn't say, "No," or they thought it was going to be a shorter drive. And it just kept. It just never ended. Okay. So, I mean, you're, like, onto something because the parents at the time, especially, were like, "There's somebody else involved." Like, our kids would not have just driven up a random mountain for miles. Like, somebody else is either involved or, like, something really wrong happened. But, like, this is not just them being careless, you know? I definitely think there was somebody else involved trying to make a ride. So, what do you think the motive would have been, like, a motive, or just, like, she really needed a ride? Or was it, like, to, like. I don't know. I feel like, like, I mean, I always go straight into, like, some sort of trafficking, which wouldn't really make sense with 14-age boys, but maybe, like, robbing them, like, trying to drive them out into the middle of nowhere to rob them. Well, and, but remember, they found the wallet with his money still in it and stuff, and they just starved to death out there. It's just so strange. And, like, where did she go? And, like. Maybe they. She really needed a drive or a ride, but then it was dark, you know, starting a blizzard. So, she even got lost and didn't know where to tell them to drop her off, and then they all ended up. But then, like. But then, where the fuck is she, you know? And that's terrible, too, that she had a baby with her, right? And it's, like, well, did anybody report that person missing? But I don't think there was any report of a woman missing. So, it could have. Maybe they did drop her off, and then they were trying to get home, and they got. That could hurt her. But then, like, why are they. All five wandering. Oh, right. They saw her in the lights. And he's like, oh, they were whistling. It's just so creepy. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Like, walking up the road. And so, then he's like, oh, on my way back, I saw their car, and the police were like, oh, shit. And that was definitely them. So, yeah, very disturbing. They do eventually find, like I said, the body of Ted in the trailer. They find the bodies on June 5th of Jack and Bill, about four miles from the car on route to the trailer, presumably, and heavily scavenged by animals, cause a death as hypothermia. And then Tuesday, and this one's rough, too, because Jack Hewitt was the only. Jack Hewitt and Gary Matthias were the only ones who were still missing at this point. And Jack Hewitt's dad wanted to be part of the search party, and police were like, you shouldn't do that. And he insisted. And he found his son's clothes, and when he picked a piece of it up, a spine fell out. And so, I know. I'm sorry. But that's how it is described in all the reporting. I know, I'm sorry. It's horrible. And so. So, that was like a bear attack or something. Like how else do you. No, no, no. It was just scavenged by. I mean, he'd been out there for months. Oh, oh, oh, I see. And so, like, he just had found a piece of his like clothes or whatever, and like, yeah, it's horrible. Yeah, it's really horrible. So, he was able to identify that, like, the shoes and clothes were his sons. Now, Gary's body was never located to this day. We still don't know where Gary is. I mean, like, if all that was left of someone who was a spine, like, it all takes his one more animal, picking up the spine and bringing it to him. And a couple more winters of, you know, years and decades of, yeah, yeah. And that's, like, what I, I mean, that's what I assume, just taking away, yeah. Something just. Yeah. So, search crews did find the tennis shoes with wear, which we know, leading investigators to believe that, like, that he just switched shoes when he went out because his feet were probably swollen from, or maybe he wanted to put on, like, extra socks or, you know, whatever. So, here are some other, like, theories slash unexplained parts of this that, like, just are worth noting. So, there is no explained connection between any of the young men and the town of Quincy or Plumas National Forest. They had never expressed interest in visiting. Gary was said to have some, like, former friends who lived, like, a town, like, past it, but they, even they were like, no, there's no reason he would have driven here, especially in the middle of the night. And we haven't even heard from him in years. And also, like, they had this game tomorrow. And it was important to all five of them. And I don't think any of them would have been like, yeah, let's go for a joy ride into a mountain for no reason. And they knew their way home. They had four maps that were like, very clearly, here's mountain, you know, it's not like they couldn't figure that out. And the amount of time he took to drive miles up the snowy road with that little car is like, for what? But you're right. Like, maybe it is that they picked someone up and we're giving them a ride. I think that's one of what it was. I'm pretty confident. I know that's what it was. It feels like what it would be, he hate, like, he himself, Madruga, whose car it was, like, he hated to drive and snow. He hated his car getting dirty, right? Like none of them even like being cold, like, it's just so strange. The other thing is like walking that long distance through the woods to get to this trailer. It's like, I guess there was a paved path, but like the fact that they didn't get in the warm slash like functional car and drive back down the mountain instead of up it. And if you were going to walk 20 miles, wouldn't you walk back down the mountain? Because then you get back to where you were. Maybe one of them knew it. No, I see. I don't know. Now another theory is that like, maybe they had like qualms about like, no, that doesn't make sense either. I hate that theory. That makes me mad. It's a theory about like them not understanding like ethics or morals or something and I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not even going to go there. So there is some people have theorized that like perhaps Gary, Gary's mental illness, illness did play a part here, like unlike the other four men who had intellectual or developmental disabilities. Gary, Matthias had average intelligence, military experience, but paranoid schizophrenia as well. And he required that daily medication and he left home without it. I mean, obviously he thought he was coming back. So it was like that. That was weird. But also, I mean, some people have speculated and this is like maybe a reach because how on Earth can you speculate this? And I don't have enough sources, but someone was saying, well, maybe he didn't want to take the meds before the game because they did. His parents did say they made him very drowsy, which he didn't like. So it's like some people argued, maybe he didn't take his meds because he wanted to be fit for the basketball. It doesn't matter. Either way, like, you know, some people have said, perhaps like he had some sort of episode and like convinced them and they didn't maybe understand his, his illness enough to know like that this was an episode of paranoid schizophrenia rather than like a real scenario. So maybe he did have an episode and like somehow led them up this path by force or by just convincing your conviction, you know, I'm not sure. It's like really. It could be anything. It really couldn't know. Yeah. And it could have nothing to do with him. It could. Exactly. Totally have everything to do with him. I mean, it could be any of it. Yeah. And so, you know, it was like, of course, people were siding, you know, because it's like, well. Oh, and she's gone. Hello. Are you all right? Oh, dear. That's creepy. Oh, hold on. One moment. It was like the credits said, I just raised my camera died. I forgot to plug it in. It was like the, like, the, like, cam link thing showed logo shut up. Okay. I was like, wow. Fade to black. Okay. Talk about like a fucking vaudeville came like by your home, pull the plug on me. Okay. So the shoe swap thing kind of like proves to people that Matthias was in the trailer with we are, especially if he was one of the people who could open the cans. And if the other one had already died on the way there, it's like, well, then maybe he was the one who was there helping open the cans. And I, like, the thing you said right off the bat, I was like, that makes the most sense to me that for whatever reason they ended up there. Um, but part of me is like, then why did he starve over a months of long time? and not like turn on the fire. - I don't know, this is, I don't know anything obviously. But I would feel like if that woman and the baby existed, I could see them saying like, here, you know, take some food with you as when you find, and here's the can opener or something, and we'll figure out how to open the rest of the can. - Well, the can opener was there. - Oh, it was there. - It was just only two of them would have really known how to use it 'cause it was like, - I don't know. - Spend some specialty. But like, there was also food that didn't require the can opener, which like maybe they didn't know it was in the locker. And I think Ted was like missing his toes. Like, I think he had really suffered this hypothermia, but it's also so strange that nobody thought to like, turn on the propane tank right outside or like, start a fire in the fireplace. - But we don't know their mental level. - We don't know, no, and we don't know. And like-- - And they're able to operate a car, someone must have known how to do something. I guess that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's so hard to know because it's like, we don't even know if all five of them made it to the cabin or if two of them died on the way or three of them died on-- - You know I do. - It's just, it's so hard to know. And so like, I think it makes sense that if three of them made it, the two who died like right near each other, if they passed away on the way to the cabin, and then the three remaining, maybe Ted was, this is also what they said in stuff we should know, but like maybe Ted was in like really bad shape. And so Gary was like, oh, you know, you go get help to Jack and maybe he went to go or to find the car, like you said, and like went off trying to find it, got lost, died. And then Gary eventually was like, well shit, I can only open this many cans and like, I have to go look for help myself, you know, or something. - Or both of them left at the same time. Or wait, he was, he was found though, right? - But also like, he was layered in blankets of like head to toe. I don't know. I was gonna say what if they said, you're clearly in a bad spot, you just say here by yourself, and I'll open some cans for you. - Yeah. - And we're both going to leave and go find the car. - Yeah. - And then that's why he was completely by himself. And it probably didn't need to know how to use the can opener. If he thought they were gonna come back within the next day. - Yeah. - Also like what year was it? Because I know like if I saw a can opener from 10 or 15 years before, I'd be like, what the fuck is that? Like, I can't open ours, they come in all shapes and sizes and sometimes I've looked at them and didn't even know they were a can opener. - No, no. This one you like need to be trained to use, I guess. It was like some military grade to open. - He might just be fucked. - But it doesn't explain the fruit cups though. - Well, but it does if he doesn't have toes and he can't walk and maybe he's so ill that like he can't get out to the shed. - And also maybe he's, cause you know, they say when you're frostbitten like your brain chemistry tells you you're like boiling hot. Like and that's why they find a lot of people naked. Like maybe he just wasn't even, maybe he'd lost all ability to even know that he was hungry. Like. - Maybe they had like left pretty early on and only left him with a certain amount of food and he had just like rationed it. I don't know, it's terrible either way. But it also is just so strange that like there's no explanation for any of it, like why they even were there or why they even went off the wrong road. It's just so weird. - And you don't think it's like a murderer because otherwise like they, I mean, I don't think it's a murderer, but like to just leave so much evidence of. - Well, the family thought, some of the family thought it was foul play. They were like, they wouldn't have just been up there. Like someone was either rashing the food and not allowing them to eat or like someone was holding them hostage. But it's also like, who and why was it like the woman with the baby? - And then why would they leave his body there unless they thought no one was ever gonna see him? - So strange all of it. It doesn't really, like none of it really makes sense. - Maybe the woman, I mean, also I would have liked the, someone told him the food wasn't good or it was spoiled or something. Like I don't know what, I mean, I would still eat rotten food if I was that hungry, but maybe they were told, maybe the woman if she was there told them, like oh, don't eat that food 'cause that's, I don't know, I have no fucking idea. - I have no fucking idea. I mean, the food like that, yeah, I know. I mean, but why? - I don't know. - I have no idea. - It's just so strange. So, and then it's because they never found Gary's remains also that there's lingering suspicion among armchair researchers and stuff that he could have survived, but I really doubt it. I think it's a scenario where just the most tragic thing happened and it went as badly as it could have gone. And who knows what happened or how they got there, but I mean, Gary had been medically stable for two years. Actually in a 2020 internal sheriff's memo, they said that Gary Matthias was actually a presumed victim of foul play. And so like, even the sheriff's department was like, we don't think he had anything to do with it, like in terms of like causing it or creating it. - Sure. - But yeah, it's just really, like intentionally, but yeah, it's really strange. But it's also strange, they said he could be a victim of foul play though, 'cause it's like, why who then? Like, I don't know, man. And they, I gotta get more answers on this one, dude. - That's a, I have no idea. - It's just so sad and strange. - Yeah. - Wow, and what's this one called? - Well, some people call it the disappearance of Gary Matthias 'cause they never found his body or him, but the Yuba County Five is, but it's also, also commonly referred to. - I feel like that's something I'm gonna watch a lot of the YouTube videos on just to see. - Yeah, it's really worth like, like going down some rabbit holes, 'cause I feel like it's been simplified, been so many, it's been simplified to just like, oh, well, they just didn't know how to do anything. And it's like, no, you know, it's not that. It's something happened. - Yeah. - So, that's all I got for you. - I can't imagine the headache. It was to even have to research that. That sounds like a lot of loose arms. A loose branch is off a tree. - Yeah, well, I mean, I'm fortunate that so many people have already researched it, that it's kind of like, okay, here, there's a pretty solid narrative here. I just had to pick and choose like which rabbit holes to go down, which ones to not, and et cetera. - Man. - Yeah. I mean, you know I love an unsolved mystery, but. - But also hate it, yeah. - Matt, I can't solve it. - It's rough. - One of these days I'm going to solve one of them, and I'm every, you'll all see, you know? All of you are going to go, holy shit, they did it. - It's finally been done. They said it couldn't be done, it's been done. - Yeah. - Wow, that'll be a great day. - A great day. - No, what's your gut feeling, final thoughts? - I think that, I have no idea. I think there was a woman with a baby. I think, or I think there was someone, I don't know who, but someone asked for a ride or did something that brought them out there. I don't think they just did it for fun. - Yeah, no, see, that doesn't make sense. I think your version is the most compelling, and I don't know why that's not discussed more often. So I'm sort of like, that seems reasonable. I don't know why it's not, maybe it isn't main theory that I missed, but I feel like that, it feels like if you're holding a baby, and there's five sensitive guys who might feel like they tapped a little bit. - Holds a yes? - And wanna be, do the right thing, yeah. - I don't know how they would all fit in a car, unless it can sit more than five people. - Okay, so this car, I do know, apparently, is like real, it's like a doozy of a car, like a step back, called them like a land boat. - Okay, well, yeah, then I would think that she said, can you give me a ride, and then either it ends up being way farther than-- - She thought, or they got lost, or they got lost, or they heard about the blizzard and thought, maybe they should park for a second, and then it got super cold while they thought they'd wait out the storm, so they had to go find shelter. - Imagine like a baby crying through it. - A baby crying? - I mean, I'm serious, like that sounds-- - Or maybe that woman was also in the cab and with them at some point, and-- - True, like, what would you probably have even thought of that? - And maybe she took some of the food to help her out while she just walked to go get help. - But like, you don't light a fire? I mean, come on. Like, you don't light a fire, you don't like-- - Yeah. - Maybe none of them knew how to use a propane tank. I don't know how to use one. - No, literally, though, there's matches in the room, and five, I mean, it's all set up to be like a survival thing, and there's literally a propane tank, and they made the point of saying, like, you just turn a knob. And one of them worked for like a gardening business. I mean, these are like, they're not like outdoorsy people, but they're like handy, you know, enough. - I mean, you'd think, but maybe not. Maybe like, if three of them don't survive on the way there, it's like, first of all, traumatizing. Maybe the woman and the baby didn't survive, and that was traumatizing, and like, now there's two guys left, and they're trying to, and one doesn't have his medication, you know, like, it could have been anything that like, we just don't even know. - I think that's a good point. I think maybe the woman and the baby didn't survive, and they all just got picked up and carried away. - Who knows, yeah, 'cause I mean, there was a description, like that the land can just kind of, in that, that just sort of over seasons, like, you know, I mean, you just kind of lose track of it. Or, I wonder if there was ever, if there was a woman and a baby or someone who lured them out there, maybe they already got dropped off, and then they by themselves got lost, and maybe the guy who swears that he saw five guys and a woman with a baby, maybe he just miscounted, and it was the five guys, and one of them was like, holding the other one, while they were walking through the, while they were walking through the cell. - Or carrying just like a backpack, who know, like, about their basketball bag, or something, who knows. But yeah, it's a good point, 'cause maybe, So maybe something else lured them there, but he missed it. interpreted the group and like yeah great or not even learned them there like maybe somebody had just like said I need a ride and then like got dropped off and they got lost or something they got lost and and they had to go find somewhere where it is like leaving the car there also like yeah I mean with a with with gas turning on with just fine when you just sitting the heated car and the heater they took the keys with them it was just strange and they clearly didn't leave because they were like super hungry. You think that trailer was on a map? Like maybe they had a map that showed the trailer and they were able to like maybe that's maybe that's unreasonable. It is interesting that they happen to find a cabin in the woods that had all these things but I think that's why it was mentioned that like a snow plow had paved like a pretty flat a path and so I think like they were following a path but it was like a 20 mile like and dark blizzard in middle the night dark so you could very easily fall off the path and they were barely well no I think they were like snowed in basically but like you know they were like but it's they you know to get hypothermia there you're pretty fucked right like four miles into the hike it's like you either keep going or go back and also everyone was having a fucking bad time on that road because even that other guy was having a fucking heart attack and I mean that starts with a guy having a heart attack being like oh I saw something really weird they're like it's a hallucination like no it's five people who died yeah it sounds like if he was able to walk eight miles the next day I don't think he was having a hallucination mid-hearted sack I mean it could be I don't know I don't know I don't know man I think we've I think we've answered some questions for people also the it's just I can't yeah I'm I I would just I would just never stop so anyway well thank you for truly listening to our podcast if you'd like to follow such socials where Megan takes these moments and turns them into just nice bites of clips little little treats you can find us at ATWD podcast and otherwise I have to pee so I'm going to bolt okay and that's why we drink