E490 Reverse Victorian Child Trauma and Skeleton Touching Collaborations

Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare. He ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that. You really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans. That can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks. Like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents. Because let's be honest, that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets. And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters. Your pet, my little hankies, and to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. One more time again, that's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. I've told you guys before that I got Allison. Well, I tried to surprise Allison with this cobblestone fireplace for the house. And I got it from Wafer. It's very, very cute, very witchy, very spooky. I feel like underneath the right thick ceiling beams, real or fake. It would look incredible. And by the way, those beams are also on Wafer. But now it has been moved into what will be the spook easy of our house. And I'm not allowed to see what they're doing in their Allison and her parents have been working on that day in and day out. And I know that the fireplace has become like the centerpiece that they're working the whole thing around. So I'm very excited to see how it turns out. Wish me luck. I'm hoping it's going to look as spooky as promised. I will take pictures when I finally can see what's going on. All I know is that that fireplace became the focal point of the entire room. So if you would like your own focal point, whether that's a fireplace or a couch or a table or whatever your thing is, you can head over to Wafer and transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wafer rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase and head to Wafer.com or shop the Wafer app for all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-r.com. Wafer every style, every home. There was a time when I searched under the beds for killers and clowns. And instead I found a lemon and my life was changed for the better. However, it was on that trip when I realized, "Oh, Emma and Eva don't look under the beds every single night for murderers." That's odd. I would say like lemon is the silver lining of my OCD diagnosis. Would you agree? I think well, I feel cornered. I'll say lemon was a benefit. Okay, we got it folks. Oh god, as you can see, OCD is much more than the stereotypes. Because if that was the stereotype, things would be really wild. Repulsions can be physical, like checking locks or under the bed or mental, like replaying past events. If you feel like you know what this is like and you may be wondering or curious, no CD is here for you. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can of course make it difficult to find the right help. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP or Exposure and Response Prevention. That's what helped me recover from that very difficult period of my life. With no CD, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. And no CD therapists are highly trained so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. No CD therapy is covered by insurance as well for over 155 million Americans. So if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's nocd.com to schedule a free call and learn more. We're here. We're queer. We've got tie dye. We're matching both. We're both in tie dye. Love it. I, uh, it felt like a tie dye day. It's the day before Friday. So I'm pre pre excited. You're like casual Friday, but casual Thursday. That's right. Yeah. I would prefer a casual Thursday. If I worked in an office, actually casual Wednesday would feel nice also. Because it's like right in the middle. I feel like it should be like pajama Wednesday. And then Friday's more like casual like we're going to hang out later. Maybe, you know, like Friday, you should get to go. You should go dressed so you can go straight to the bar afterwards or whatever you afterwards. Yeah. You should be able to wear your cute little like your romper or like, you know, whatever you want to wear your cape. Your cape. Like if it's chilly, you know, your shoulders won't have to worry. I really, I agree. I think Fridays should be whatever you need. Wednesday should be pajama day. Um, what would the other days be? I'm trying to avoid a little corporate outfits. Stay home, maybe, okay. So maybe for some people, Wednesday is pajama day. I was going to say, I don't know. I don't like working. So I think that I'm not the one to tell you how to run your office people. You run your own office. You tell me though, if tied, I Monday would do some real damage. I would say, like, naturally tied, I Tuesday just has a better ring to it. But I like, I like where your head, I like where your head's at. That's a good point. Yeah. This is why we're a power team, right? It's like, wow, one idea after the other, we're just making waves. I feel like, you know, because I feel like I had a good idea and then you went actually, what about this? Let's just up the game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really changed the game there. What's been going on with you? We haven't talked on like two whole weeks. I'm just been missing Carmen San Diego style across the world. I don't know where, but just around and have you had a lovely time traveling? I did. I really needed it. Well, I, it started with a family vacation with Allison's family and then it always does. It always does. I needed a catalyst to get me to the East Coast. Yeah. The first Domino's got to go over, you know, and then there was a wedding and Connecticut. That was there was a few days. I needed to be in Connecticut for that. Where in Connecticut? Old money Connecticut. It was the name of it. Oh, no, that's just right. Imagine being a time you're like, we're going to call ourselves old money. I love it. It was a, it's near Mystic Connecticut where I see obviously checked out Mystic. Oh, I've been a Mystic, but only once. Oh, it was very nice. The aquarium I went to. What's up? I went to the aquarium. I did not. But they had a bookshop that told our book. Wait, which one? I've been there. Alice's little haunted bookshop. Yes. Yeah. My mother-in-law like loves that spot because they live in Connecticut. So every time she goes there, she sends me a little picture. I think it's a coastal chain. I thought it was it. I thought it was just in Mystic. But then one of my friends also just saw our book and they said, oh, I was just at it. I was like, wait, you were in Mystic. And they're like, no, I think it's the stories in different places. I didn't know that. I've only heard of the Mystic one. Yeah. No, the place I went was there was old saybrook. I also went to Greenwich. I know. And but that was just Connecticut. I was trying to hit all of it. I did. I spent time in every state in New England. I went to New York. I went to Pennsylvania. Word. That was all over the place. I'll tell you one of the things I did. I'm very excited to report back to you. Actually two things. I don't know which one's going to require more conversation. So I want to say that one last. The first thing I did, okay, that I need to talk to you about. And by the way, then I had to travel. I had to carry it all the way back because no it was too expensive to ship back. And also it was too big to put in like the overhead. So I had to hold it. No, I found it finally in real time. Cause did you know that they're so hard to actually find? What? You did not take a hoop and stick on the fucking cabin in the cabinet. I've found a two-pin stick. Did anybody stop you or try to everyone? Everyone. I thought you were going to say nobody dared. And then you said actually I hit a bump at every turn. Okay, first of all, I don't know what the hell's going on. I tried to ship this back, but it would only fit in the box that I guess was so big that to ship it from New York to California. 800 dollars to ship a loop and stick. And the shape is like the size of a truck tire. So I imagine like if you were, I mean it's obviously like an ounce heavy, but if you were to like the space that takes up. Really? Like the people who were like, I was like, can you just tell me what boxes would fit in? And then they started laughing. They're like, I'm so sorry, but this would be 800 dollars. Do you want the faster one, which is like 780? I was too embarrassed to tell them that it was a hoop and stick. So I took the stick part off and I kept it in my backpack because that's easy. And so it just looks like a hula hoop and they were like, we're sending a hoolah hoop. There was for 800 dollars. Do you want to send a hoop and I went, I don't. I can't do that. I can't. So I now own a hoop and sec. And it was your carry on. Now we know you can take that on. It was a carry. It was not an easy carry on. I'll tell you that because they give you a hard time. The flight attendants were lovely. They put it in like their own personal story. They put it in like the first class, like next to the Blazers. Yes, yes, because it couldn't sit. It obviously couldn't go above, but it couldn't be next to my knees either because it was like it would get into everyone else's space. Just rolls. down the aisle and you're like, hang on, with the stick all over. Um, so anyway, I just, I wanted it on record that I, I, I have a hoop and stick. It's been very hard. I've been waiting to find one and I tried it and I've been able to, okay, it's actually so F and hard, those little Victorian kids were fucking children. I mean, they weren't playing with the rusty cans half the time, like, you know, they were built of stronger stuff than we are. They clearly, I mean, even the skill that it takes to hoop and stick, like, I guess the name of the game was how long can you keep a hoop up using the stick and they would just go for miles and miles and I can't do it for five fucking feet. I don't know how they did it, but I guess if you have all the time in the world and no other toys, like this, like a dirty alley and street. Yeah. This is what happens when there aren't screens. The kids are good, but they've been stuck. Like, I would draw with squishy bugs, not so disturbing also, you know, like there are other disturbing things that have been done even in the 90s, you know, anyway, that was a big thing. I really, um, I'm delight. I am over the moon. I got to say about this. Thank you. And I'm really, I'm hoping that I get good at it. So in my neighborhood, I'm known as the, like, there's someone who uses hoop for that, you're already known for that. It's too late for that. You've already, whether you're good at it or not, it, honestly, if you're work, if you're bad at it, it'll probably stick faster on, yeah. That's the sad part. Well, because I thought when I, we first moved here, I was like, Oh, I'd love to get like back into like a unicycling and then I'm like, I noticed the person who unicycles. Yeah. That's what happens usually when you move like into your neighborhood. You're like, I really want to settle back into my roots, you know, you need to be known for something. I don't know what's wrong with me. Unicycling. But imagine if I got back into unicycling and hoop and sick at the same time. And then I'm unstoppable, I mean, the roads are going to be dangerous for everybody. No one's going to know what to expect. That's at least, you know what I always wanted to get into was penny-farthing, which is like the really big Victorian life with the one thing. You also would do that. You would do that. It's disturbing to me. We used to have them at the prop house and I was too scared to ever learn how to try to learn what to do. It seems terrifying. I would die immediately. Instantaneous death. Anyway, that's why I drink because I'm very excited that I have a little stick out. I like how little the stick is though. Like why is it the stick part? Probably so fucking small if the hoop it, like I don't. It's like a foot long. That's it. Yeah, I thought it was going to be more of like, you got more, more length to use rather than just. Yeah. I guess you only needed to just kind of do this and just hope it stays balanced, right? I thought it's supposed to roll the hoop and you're supposed to like, hit it this way. Oh, my God. Do you not even know how to play it and you're like inventing your, no wonder you're so bad at it. So you're going to be known as the person who has no fucking clue what they're doing with the hoop and stick, which is so much funnier to me than actually being good at it. Well, you know, they have the like train for a while. They roll down the street and you like, yeah, but I think I use this to like try to keep it balanced, right? Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, upright, upright. Yeah. Okay. I thought you were doing like a play spinning situation and I was like, well, that's your clowning kicking in. No, I will. There was that trend for a while about like, what's the sentence, what's the crazy sentence you could say though? I make like a Victorian child. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's always funny to me. I feel like in reverse like this, this is something of Victorian child would be like some of those and make a future person's perspective. We never think about it that way, do we? But if someone said, let's play with a hoop and stick, I clearly can't keep up with them. They laughed off the school yard, maybe doing laps around me. Yeah. Oh, my God. And then we'd all have a, we'd fucking have the high cholesterol, like a heart attack and they'd be like, these people are made of fucking, you fucking people are not withstand anything. I, I will say I have one other thing I do really want to talk to you about. The right, that one was supposed to be not as talkative. So tell me the second thing. Well, I was going to say, I'm aware that I'm kind of taking over the conversation right now. So I want you to give a divide here and tell us why you drink. Fantastic. Because I'm so ready. Because look at this bad boy. It's a smoothie. It looks delicious. Oh, my God. It's like a berry. It's supposed to be healthy for me, huh? But it had like, look, they brought me a pink straw today. That's so fun. Is this even from the same place you usually go to or no? You know what it is. And I can't stop. Well, no, it's not my big B's, actually, no. It's a different place. It's some sort of farm, juicery situation that's far too expensive, but I live in LA so I can't complain too much. Is it tastes like LA? And about to find out. Oh, yeah. It's got dates. It's got, you know, all the classics, it's good for my, it's collagen, I don't know what the fuck is in it, but it was expensive, but I figured, you know what, treat yourself. Before I lived in LA, I really did not understand, nor was I willing to understand a date in a smoothie. It's really a game changer. If you had no, you had absolutely no acceptance for that. I was like, I'll pass. But actually, you visited me and I was pregnant and I just ate so many fucking dates. It's so delicious. Get the baby out. I was like, I'm trying. I kept you. It was a date for figs, I don't know. Figs, I still don't stand behind, but dates are delicious, but it's like, it's like nature's caramel. Well, that's beautiful. That's how it was described to me to get me to eat it. Oh. I'll tell Lione at that later, though, perfect. It's nature's caramel. Okay. Now, tell me the second thing, because the reason I drink is that I just don't even, I'm in such a liminal space. I feel in my life that I don't even know why I drink this week. What have you been doing the last two weeks? Where'd you go? What'd you do? Who'd you see? Just like, you know, having a neurotic breakdown every once in a while. Cool. What'd you eat? Not much. Okay. Yeah. I sort of lost my appetite. It's just been a weird time. I feel like I'm in a liminal space for real. I've been doing you, I've been doing terror readings on one day I randomly just did a terror reading on TikTok and it was like 50,000 views and I went, I'm sorry. What's that about? So then I've been doing them every day for fun and they only have like a hundred views or two hundred but it's like, I don't know, it's a good little routine. So it keeps me grounded and yeah, so you can, I don't know, they're just kind of out there floating around. So if the one comes, I kind of set the intention of like, if this comes across someone's feed, maybe they're meant to get a message from it, you know. So nice. What is it called? It's a cool thing. Cool. No, I don't even have a name for it. I just like fucking did it and then started kept doing it and I've done it almost every day for like eight days now, which is like the longest I've ever done anything. Five of the sides is podcasts. Yeah. That's awesome. Have you, has one stuck out to you where you got a reading where you're like, oh, this feels real real. Yes, it was one so creepy yesterday that I did where I said, I keep getting Alaska and it was like this intense Alaska energy. The first fucking card I pulled, the only card in the entire 80 some Oracle deck or terror deck. That was like a folklore from Alaska and I was like, whoa, so that was freaky. And then something fell over like during a reading, there's like some weird like ghosty stuff that's happening. And then during that same reading, oh, I said like, for some reason I'm being called to bring up my yearbook quote and then I pulled up an Oracle card and it was like, your high school yearbook or something and I was like, this is getting like, what the hell? It was getting weird. What was your yearbook quote? Oh my gosh. Well, I talk about it and the cynicism I've had and the relationship I've had to that quote in that video. But it was the meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit. Oh, wow. And at the time, I was like, I was like, I was just who I was at the time. I was so deep. But looking back, like I recently thought about it and I felt so cynical and I was like, I was just like, had no boundaries. I was just like, you know, oh, the meaning of life is like, give away everything you have and like, blah, blah. I was just feeling so weird and cynical about it. And for some reason, I brought it up in the reading and then I like, pulled the yearbook card and it was like, just very affirming. I don't know. It was cool. So I think I'm kind of doing readings for myself. But then it like resonates with people who are going through similar experiences. So that makes sense. Sure. So they're healing, you know, exchange. What do you mean that it, like, just brought up Alaska? Don't tarot cards, like, kind of just have like vague. Oh, I have a deck that's like, um, folklore, folklore around the world. Oh. So it's like a tarot deck, but it's like themed. So I'll just randomly, like, I have like, you know, like 40 decks and like, even I have, and you have collected so many over travels. Actually, I only have three. Oh, okay. Well, you've gifted many, I guess I would say. And also I've received and Eva has certainly gifted and received many. And like, so that one was, like, place a, yeah, like, folklore from around the world. And I was like, oh, look at this woman. And she's with the bugs. And then I like, open it. It's like, Alaskan folklore. And I was like, well, that was weird. That's cool. And then it was just fun to see people in the comments. And then I put like a pinned comment or as a description of like, what I feel like is the, are the like, synchronicities for the day, like, just weird stuff. I don't know. It's just fun. I'm just walking around. And that's awesome. Yeah. I don't know. If it feels like resident anyone, you go check it out otherwise. Well, I would say what the, I don't know how to totally segue into this. But I was thinking about while I was traveling because I was trying to like document as much of it as possible. And I was thinking like, I'm like, really upset that I'm, I know in a few months, I'm just going to forget everything I did. And so I made a little video of like things to remember of like, if I ever travel there, there's a couple of things to do again. And so I was like, maybe I'll put that on YouTube. So maybe you're like, maybe like a little, like, people, like, especially when it's like travel stuff, like my brother will sometimes just turn on like best places in, or underrated spots and whatever and just like have it on. Really? I feel like shit. Like, yes, people love shit like that, dude. And what I would do, how I got into this was I was like so into watching those videos that I was like, oh, I think I could like do this in my own style. So I feel like the best thing to do is like watch those kind of videos and be like, oh, which one is like something that I could kind of translate into my own, because it's like whatever you feel like. Oh, that's really cool. How they do that. I don't know. I feel like that is the way to figure it out. But yeah, people each check like that up, are you kidding me? That would be awesome. Well, it's, it's, it would be more for me, I think, and that if people want to watch it, they can't. it's just so. I have like I think that's the key though like that's why I'm doing I'm like I'm not expecting one video blew up And I was like okay fine That's my sign from the universe to keep doing it and then you know the next ones have like 100 views fine I don't really care. It's just like oh, I like doing it and I feel more Do you ever get a really good feeling that like you're like those are gonna be a good crazy deck? I can already tell this like I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm good once a day. Yeah Yeah, and it's crazy and I just got my raky like Second certification and I got like like my congratulations. Did you tell me you told us about the first certification? Yes, and so I got my second one. I know it's crazy and then I went in for another like um, you don't sound proud enough of yourself No, I am. It's just a sort of a mind blowing because it feels a little bit like What's happening, you know, I'm like what's happening? Everything's just like whoa But yeah, so I've been doing that. It's just kind of like I'm just kind of like doing it for fun So I would recommend though just put stuff up who knows? I am very proud of you for all your raky stuff because you are very much underselling it But I know it takes a lot of work and I will thank you. It's been it's been it's been a blast Thing I wanted to tell you is I stayed one extra day That I really planned to I really wanted to leave a day earlier, but I Realized I was pretty close to a town that you and I would care quite a lot about so I'm here to tell you all about my day in scranton No, oh my god, I was like Galena sleepy hollow. We've done that like I'm done at New Orleans done that No, it's funny. I'm actually my place my Galena bracelet today. I literally wore my Galena shirt yesterday Oh my god. I had a weird feeling you were I was like I'm gonna wear my Galena bracelet I don't know why I haven't worn it a long time. God damn it. I love Galena Anyway, so sorry other city other city. Yeah, I went to scranton and I did a full office day. So I went everywhere Which I guess I'll talk about in the YouTube video. Oh, yeah, oh, I thought you're gonna say the happy hour But yes, also the YouTube video. Yes, you should absolutely do that, but I'll tell you I went to all the spots I went to poor Richards. I went to Oh, this shirt is from Cooper C food Shut the fuck up, which I can tell you I'll tell you that's I get why in the show Michael Scott is obsessed with Cooper C food. It's a very Michael Scott plays And then I went to Alfredo's pizza cafe. I went to the Chili's obviously obviously And I didn't know this they opened that Chili's after like people from the office like screamed about how there wasn't a Chili's in scranton I feel like I heard that somewhere on tiktok, but yeah, they wear different uniforms and anywhere else at Chili's like there's is the Dunder Mifle logo Chili's Scranton branch and then they have where those yeah, and then they have all over like the decor of the Chili's is all office themed So like they had like shit some franchisers was like a franchise. He was like I'm fucking nailing this by the way Literally they were I think they took a survey and they were like who were all the office fans here all of you are in charge of designing this place because every wall There was like all the way down to like pamphlets for like a condo for sale and it was it described Michael Scott's condo. Oh my gosh Killy's not Killy's Kevin's chili recipe framed on the wall. They had like did they have it like a stain. No, that would be in the office number No, they they had They had a big poster that said like I feel God in those chilies. They had Oh my god, what am I I'm what am I missing? Oh, they had a little life there was a booth that was designed to look exactly like the one in the episode that Michael Scott takes like the client too. Oh my gosh It's literally like you don't get to eat there. They had like props glued on the table so you could sit there and like take a picture like you're then That's so good Um, and then what else I went to the actual Dunder Mifflin I met their version of Pam I think but And I even asked I was like, what's your job? And she was like, it's the office like we all you know what we do I was like, ah like she like knew her fucking Hitting me they do that. I didn't know they do all this there. Yeah, no, they've really leaned into it And like even the the actual paper company there they changed their logo on one side of their building so it's Aual paper company there. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't realize that which I think that it gets mentioned in the show at some point, but um They they one side of their building they changed out their logo and everything and it just says Dunder Mifflin It's literally like a paper and then their lobby they have a bunch of Dunder Mifflin stuff So you can go in and take pictures like in their paper company lobbies and They were they were the paper company that I guess John Krasinski filmed for the intro and then they were also They were the ones that got interviewed by the writers to know how to actually run a paper company and cheese And then what else um Uh, oh my gosh, there were there were murals everywhere. I have pictures. I'll I'll put it off somewhere. See this why we need the youtube video I know you know, I already forgot it, but um, oh, and then I went there was that episode where um uh Ryan Like when when he hurts his foot on the George Foreman girl and all he wants is putting and Ryan's like oh I got you putting from a gas station in carbondale I went to a gas station in carbondale and they do sell putting Oh my god. I got you putting from a gas station in carbondale. It's a very good line. Yeah. I um Okay, that's that's really at the end, but I I would have felt weird to not actually tell you about that and then Um, they they sold dundies at a store and they but they had dundies They were all replicas of the dundies that people won on the show so you can get any dundie that anyone won cool white speakers They had whitest sneakers. They had kind of a bitch award. They had uh, I want that I got Allison one. It's the hottest in the office, which is what Ryan usually won Yeah, the one right um, but yeah, it was it was a good time So but I it was so exciting to be there and then it was shocking that like It really hurt my feelings at one point. There was one of the waiters at the chillies He could tell it was a fan because I was like taking pictures of everything and he came up and like was telling me a story about how like his parents Like new some of the people who worked on the show and I was like really like You have any others like do you remember anything like anything else from that time and he was like no, I wasn't born yet It's and I went oh He was like I'm just I just remember because that's what my parents told me It's just my legacy oh god fuck really maybe feel so old I was like oh because you look in my mind. I'm your age, you know, so right like we're the youths. Yeah Anyway, I wouldn't just grand and that's the good reason why I drink. I love that for you. Congratulations. That sounds like fun Because I knew I would yap so much. I have a very short story for you today. Oh exciting right on like Like not even half a page notes. Oh wow. Yeah, because I knew we would always we always make up for it Especially after like a three-week break or whatever two-week break. I know I just had so much to catch you up on like I was in screen the whole time I was like I can't even believe I didn't even oh man. I must have felt something in the air. I I certainly felt the threat from afar. Thank you. Yeah, I felt threatened really quickly with that. I'm glad to hear it. Mm-hmm It can be so hard to go from like oh about so many groceries and then all of a sudden they're all either bad or gone And I'm like wait now. I don't have anything to eat. Oh no, and I have a child help. Okay, so that is why I do love hungry root Something new I discovered was ifika lemon dill hummus and it was sent my way and I thought Wow, I never would have picked this up at the store, but it's like they knew And that's why I stayed with hunger root because they know and they're they they build me this beautiful shopping cart And yeah, it's a genuinely helpful tool to make sure my fridge actually has like yummy nutritious stuff And isn't just kind of like accidentally all old And you made a great point to that hunger root gives you options. You would have never thought of before like I wouldn't think to get that And I also I wouldn't feel confident in myself on how to like prepare that without any help So I'm going to open the container and put a chip in it. So it wasn't very hard. It's incredible Yeah, they just handle it and they go you're gonna like this trust us boom food Love that You're gonna love hunger root as much as we do for a limited time get 40% off your first order Plus get a free item in every box for life go to hungry root.com/drink and use code drink that's hungry root.com/drink Code drink and get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life So okay my story today is a Little bit of a combo. It's two topics in one. It is the one of this to cemetery And the hunter-stakehouse Whoa You'll see how they under how they make sense together. Okay. This is an ocean side, California. This is near San Diego And I wanted to do a cemetery one of the things while I was on my travels. I went to a cemetery In the cemetery mood so This is in San Diego and Ocean side, California specifically is built right above this Lagoon area. It's very beautiful. Yeah, it's so beautiful that some people Wanted to rest there permanently and they thus it became This cemetery where I guess people could overlook the lagoon and I see I thought you were gonna say they jumped off of it Oh, oh, so that's I'm glad we went different directions with that. I'm so like Yep, so good things. No, so a cemetery was built there and it was a very Quick turnaround this cemetery really only existed for like maybe 30 years So it was from We're gonna put our house here not a cemetery. I think that's kind of how people like immediately they want the land Why do dead people get to look out the ocean up so alive? Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because wasn't it like the 1880s? I think where um, I don't know what the right phrasing is archive or designers or something, the intention of cemeteries for a while was to be public parks. So that way you could, you could go visit your family, but it was still like a welcoming place to be opening out. So that way you never really felt like your family was isolated somewhere. You could still enjoy them and make family time out of it. Right, which makes sense for like a beautiful view, a vista. Yeah, a vista. In my mind, it makes sense that you would put a cemetery next to a lagoon if you think people would want to be there. Absolutely. And to come and pay respects. Yeah, that makes it actually makes total sense. Yeah. Well, we don't think that way anymore. We'll see you to the city planners, but not to the big wigs. Well, so it was built in 1888. I don't actually know when it was built. That was the first burial we know of. So I'm assuming the cemetery was just waiting before that. Maybe it was just like, we have a hole and someone very, and then they were like, there's actually one hole. They're like, we're going to question it any day out. Or bodies, and then it'll be a cemetery. Yeah, true. And only the final burial we know of was in 1916. So that's one. Yeah, it wasn't very long. 22 plus 16. It's a very short period of time. Yeah, not even 40 years. Okay, so the cemetery was here. It was called the Buena Vista Cemetery, because it overlooked the Buena Vista lagoon. And yeah, the last burial was 1916. But by 1929, which is like 15 years later ish, it was the area was completely abandoned. Oh, the cemetery was overgrown. I guess because since it's beginning, there was never like a caretaker. And so after 40 years. And if nobody else is getting buried there, it's like people start stop visiting. Yeah, or I would even think the, if they never had a caretaker. And it started in 1888 by 1929. It's just like. Oh, true. Just a mess. And you don't want to know it's there. Yeah. So who knows maybe if they. Employed people to like be like maintenance workers there. It would have stayed open longer. But. Anyway, so it was abandoned by 1929. At that same time, the cemetery or the road that it was on was being redeveloped. And so because of this, they were going to be shifting things around on, on the land. Oh, okay. A bunch of bodies were buried. Yeah, good start. Mm-hmm. So at this point, just in 1929 as they're doing this first round of redevelopment, around like 10 different bodies were dug up. And at least moved to a new cemetery. Because one of the other reasons that this place was abandoned was because a whole new bigger, better cemetery had opened up. Sure. So they find around 10 bodies. A different source has said different numbers. So I'm sticking with around 10. They dug these buys up and move them to a cemetery. And since the cemetery had been abandoned for like 15 years, the bodies I guess technically were also abandoned. So I'm unsure if there were families who were like notified. But it also seems that nobody complained either. No one like wrote in and said where the hell are the bodies that we buried. Right. I guess nobody was visiting anyway. So maybe they. Right. Didn't know. Oh, okay. So. And I don't think they had like plot info on the bodies. They were just kind of, I think they didn't even know what they would find. They just kind of started digging. And if they found a body, they're like, okay, let's. There weren't even like grave, like grave stones, head stones. I don't think so. Because one of the mysteries of the cemetery was we don't know how many bodies. To this day, we don't know how many bodies were on the land. Goodness. Okay. And some had headstones. There was actually like a whole controversy somewhere in like the 70s, I think, where this guy was like, it's clearly only this many bodies that are here. But he was really just counting the headstones that existed. And not any of the like random graves that didn't have. Oh, wow. Okay. So anyway, because they didn't have plot information, I think they were like, let's just hope for the best and hope we don't hit any bodies. And then they hit a few and then had to dig them out and move them. That was the first time that this happened. But then in the 1950s, the property was sold to a teacher who I love her mind. She bought the land strategically to keep her own house's view of the lagoon. She was like, somebody would be like, I need to get on this. Yeah. She was like, if I buy this land, then nobody else can touch it. And therefore like a skyscraper won't show up in the way of my view. Love her, love her. But very quickly, she sold to a developer, LOL, who was going to use it for commercial property anyway. So she had a plan and then did not stick with it. So by the 1960s, 1970s, now freeways are starting to get built all over the place. And specifically in this area was going to be the five. And so a ramp was going to be built right over this land. That's the decided to do with this with this property. So even though in the 1920s, they accidentally hit a few bodies and then dug them up and buried them at the new cemetery. This is now the second time where there's going to be construction in the area. And in the zoning where the cemetery is, they end up digging up 17 more bodies. Oh, more, oh, more. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Yeah. So now we're at like 27-ish. Geez. During this time, the gravestones themselves, this is like the most fucked up part to me. And I don't know why, but it just feels like the, feels like the last personal thing that any of these bodies ever got to like claim to. The gravestones, since they dug the bodies up and there was no reason for the gravestone anymore, they repurposed them and used them as parts of the highway ramp. Oh, God, that does feel just. It feels dirty. It does. It feels so wrong. It's so disrespectful. It's like, so now if you're driving on the five in, in ocean side, you're like, am I driving on, on a gravestone? So just sure you are rolling over it. That's just like, yeah, of all things a freeway. It's like, okay, like I understand if you want to, if there were other reasons to just. And it just feels a little, I guess like in the world of like if we're thinking truly like just a bunch of shitty businessmen, they're like, well, it's free concrete. Like I mean, yeah, I guess it just feels weirdly like, oh, you're going to get haunted, dude. I feel like there should be a story somewhere of like this haunted section of the five. And it's because it's built out of gravestones. You know how like every note is like, well, we're built out of limestone, so we must be haunted. I'm like, this is made out of fucking graves, babe. Oh my god, the work and man. Oh my god. Oh my god. The works timing on his light. Tell him to go away. Is he waiting for me? He did ring the doorbell. Hide. It was so worth it for that. For the jump scare. It was so worth it every second. That really was the perfect timing too. My god, you really got me to like, I got, I got jumpy. Wow, I had to, wow, I had to take a breath after that. That was a good jump scare for all of us to kind of wake back up. I think the last word I said was graves, like empty graves. Yeah. And then you look to the side and like jump down your skin. Oh my god. Okay. It's especially because the doorbell is right next to me. So they have to lunge this way. Yeah. It does always appear as though you're like recoiling. Okay. So I'm more than halfway. No, that's already. Okay, so that was the second time that we had bodies being discovered. And 17 more. Oh yeah, you said 17 more bodies. That's what happens. And then like the jump scare. Okay. So there's already, now we're at about like 30 bodies. And so she's. As far as we know, everything's good for like the next 20 years. And then by 1991, Texaco, they're soil testing in the area. And I don't know how, how deep you're digging the soil to test it. Accidentally came across like five more bodies. I mean, I guess you would. You're testing this oil. You got to go deep down in there. I wonder if they tested it and they were like, it says body remains are here. And then they're like had to keep digging. There must be oil here. And it's like no, just grandma's pearls. But just feels yeah, Texaco. Good job. So they ended up finding five or six more bodies. And during the most recent construction, which I'm not, I don't even know if this is the most recent construction. Because it sounds like in 2020, they found even more. Um, but some are between 1991 and 2020. They were now grading the land, which I did not know what that meant. That means when the machines are intentionally creating slopes. So that way rain will pour away from your house. Mm-hmm. You're saying that like a construction worker, like, you know what the fuck I'm saying? Yeah, city planner. What can I say? I rushed Parks and Rec too. You know what I mean? Okay. So for people who don't watch Parks and Rec, they were digging slopes. Just kidding. I know it. I don't know. So you said, uh-huh. So confident. I guess I guess what it must be. And then I seem to be right. So I just went with it. Your confidence made me believe that you're really smart. So it showed you. Mm-hmm. The, um, they, during the most recent construction or development or whatever, they were grading the soil. They found even more bodies. And at one point, this is like, I can't imagine the person in charge of this like construction equipment. You would know the name since you're so smart. Uh-huh. First of all, shut up. You're right. I'll tell you in a minute. But one of them was driving one of the big machines. And they accidentally struck two coffins. And bones started like spilling out. That's not me on the first day of the job. That's me on the first day of the job. Whatever you do, don't hit this section. Yeah, literally. I've just oops. I went too far. And then I accidentally tumbled bones all across the works, the workspace. This is insane. That's insane. Imagine that's your job. Like I'm just grading the land as always with my big machine. And it's like fucking bones. Brow down. You have to. I mean. - I wouldn't hope to desecrate any grave, especially any further more grave. - Oh, thank you for saying that. - More people should be open about that, thank you. - Well, I'm saying that because part of me in a morbid way would be like, if this place like three times in a row now has had history of like people digging up bodies, I'm kind of wondering if I'm gonna like, like what's the jackpot in the situation? Am I gonna get a body? - In the industry, you'd already, it already have a name built for itself because anyone doing development in that area finds a body it seems. So it's like, yeah, you kind of know what you're getting into, but like to have the bones spill about is like so startling. - I'm not saying I would want that to happen, but I would be disappointed if that place had a history of it, and we walked away without like an interesting story. - What I would be disappointed in is if that was my, the day before my first day on the job, you know, it must be action. I was my, days, I was the orientation day and I missed it and oh my gosh, I would be so disappointed, but I would want all the details, yeah. - Yeah, I wanna be involved zero percent, but I do wanna be like working that day and hear about it in the different parts. - Just like in the wings, yeah. - That's exactly what I want, yeah. - I don't wanna be feeling guilty about anything, but I don't wanna be in it on it. - Yeah, and I wanna be a hold space for all the trauma, but I just wanna be part of the like watch crew. - Exactly. - I'm gonna be in the back. I definitely wanna be the person, like I wanna be like the town cryer of the construction crew where I go, oh my god, we found it. - You and I would be fucking so annoying. We'd be like, you guys, did you guys hear? Oh my god, and then you and I would fight each other and we'd be like, we'd fucking work the story. I'd been to like a frenzy, it would be insane. - And I wouldn't even be useful that day on the set. I wouldn't even be useful that day. - We would turn it into a set because we would immediately create content out of it 'cause we're insane. - That's what I'm saying. I'd immediately start like looking up the names and trying to find out what was unhinged about it immediately. - So, but you know, obviously I don't think they handled it. Let's put this way, even though I feel a little hesitant about even my own response on what I would do, where I would just want to know all the information. These people handled it worse because, oh, how? I wouldn't say the construction crew are to blame at all. I think there's some project manager who needs to reevaluate his. - Uh oh. - His tailues. - Because basically, they hit these two bodies and to make his deadline on the project, he literally had workers just take the bones and put them in burlaps or X and then told the crew to keep working. - Oh my god, and these people, I mean, that's traumatizing in and of itself to have to be doing that. - To pick up bones and put them in the back. - So, like, right, literally, and then hide them from orders of your boss. What the fuck? - And I saw in one source, it said that like, they literally called the city, and that's what the city wanted to do to also keep the project on about the city. Give me, give me a break. - That mayor is corrupt. - I'll tell you that. - It's a dog, probably, like the one you like so much. If I like, yeah, dig up all the bones, given to me. - Honestly, that would be Mayor Maxx's best day. - 100%. - That's a fucking thing to say. But, like, hey, that is funny. You also dogs and bones. Okay, so. - You guys get it. - Do you get it? Please, God, because otherwise, I feel like I'm really making a bad joke. Okay. But no, is that not so fucked up that he was just like, "All right, put them in a bag, we're done." - In a burlot, wait, what year was that, too? - That, I don't know. It's between the 90s and 2020. - Yeah, like, what burlap sack, what are you doing? - This is disturbing. - Yeah, we couldn't put them at least in, like, top or wear or something where we could preserve them and bring them somewhere. - Is that some sort of trunk or something, yeah. - I don't know. - Like, something air tights that way, you can, like, find out something to do with them later. - I guess that they, I guess he probably just didn't want anyone to know, and that's the point, right? Like, he didn't want it to halt construction or whatever. - Well, when the whistle blower, 'cause I, oh, not on purpose, I would just accidentally blab too much. - I wouldn't be able to shut the fuck up about that. I'd be like, "Can you believe this fucking happened?" - And then they'd be like, "What happened?" I'd be like, "I didn't know that." - No. - Wasn't me, nothing at all. - Ask him, ask him. (laughing) - Well, so, then even more bodies were found. And I guess the construction crew blessed them. They were afraid that these bodies were all just gonna get put in burlapsacks and neglected. And so they literally took the construction equipment themselves and re-barried the bodies. - Wow, oh my gosh, wow. Good for them. I bet you there was one guy who was like being an asshole about it, and was like, "Oh no, I'm just the asshole." Like, he had to like, re-evaluate too. - I'm sure he was like, if everyone else is feeling this way, like, I really actually think about myself. - He probably made a joke about how Mayor Max would have loved this, and then-- - I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. (laughing) - That was a joint effort, Chris, did you go with-- - No, no, no, no, trust me. I literally set you up for that one. That's, we'd be in the same room. - I mean, we'd be going, we'd be laughing and going, "Oh, it's too soon." - Yeah, we can't realize. - We can't realize, sorry. - It's a, for sure, a morbid joke. But I mean, what else are you gonna do when you're digging and burying a bunch of bodies? - And traumatized, yeah, yeah. Sometimes you get a laugh through the pain. So, yeah, the construction team, I guess, handled it, or I don't know how many, maybe it wasn't all of them, maybe it was just some of them, but around 10 bodies in total were found during this event. So that makes like 12 more bodies on top of the almost 30 bodies. - Okay. (bell dinging) - You know, I like have not ever thought about it this way, but some things aren't meant to be transparent. Like, swimsuits. But when it comes to like a bill, like a, say, a phone bill, yeah, it's like transparency is a word they've never heard of, and suddenly there are these fees, and there are these like little add-ons, and like they're like, wait, you already knew about that. But no, no, no, no, we're done with that, because now MetMobile's here with high-speed data and reliable coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network, and right now all plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. - MetMobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with premium wireless for $15 a month, and you're right, I am so sick. - They trick you with all these little like, "Oh, if you do this now, then you get this later." Or here's this discount, or here's this blah, blah, blah, and you sign up for this, and you get that, and you go. - MetMobile doesn't do that. - Is this your autograph, and you go, I guess so, I don't know. - MetMobile doesn't mess around. All their plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network, and you can even bring your current phone and your number over, which I love. - To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to metmobile.com/atwd. That's metmobile.com/atwd. - Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at metmobile.com/atwd. That's it, there's no catch. - Up front payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months plan required, $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra. Initial plans are only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required availability, speed and coverage varies, see metmobile.com. - Now we get to 2020, and I don't know any information more than the fact that three more bodies are discovered around this time. - Oh my word. And I really don't know how old those bodies would be, anything like that, it was actually an editor's note from a previous news article where they went, the body count has climbed. - They're like updated information, oh my God. - Yes. So now the number currently stands at around 50 to 52. - Jesus, and they thought like maybe 10 at first, and they were like, oh, I think that's everyone. - Wow. - And I mean, I guess there were gravestones there, so it wasn't technically a potter's field. There were people who wanted to be identified, but maybe they had like family plots, you know, where it was like, you don't necessarily know how many people in a family were buried in a certain name or. - No clue. - I don't know. Before I stop talking about the cemetery though, I wanna tell you, the creepiest part for sure is that in the '70s, when they were doing their bout of construction and they found all these bodies, what's so freaking eerie about this? And remember these bodies, as far as we know, the latest one was buried in 1916. - Right. - So these bodies were buried between the 1880s and 1916. In the '70s, when they were going through this redevelopment and taking the bodies out, the bodies that were being discovered, despite them being decades old, they were in, quote, "perfect condition." - Ah. - The bodies, they're clothing and even a flower that one body was holding. One man was holding a flower in his coffin, showed no signs of decay, little to no signs of decay. The flowers still had its color. - What the fuck? Okay, is this, I can't even press a dandelion over here and they're just like preserving roses in a coffin? I mean, that's the fallet boiler, write that down. - Maybe it's a salt T.C. air is so good for you. - Well, so their theory is that there was something in the soil, especially in '91, if they were testing that soil, yeah. I mean, maybe, and I would imagine I would be on the soil testing team, one way to pitch it to me. - I also imagine you would be on the soil testing team, what? - I think it would immediately, it would be a no for me, if I'd volunteer to be part of the soil testing team, but if someone pitched it as, no, no, 20 years ago, they started finding bodies that were buried a hundred years ago and they were in perfect condition. All of a sudden, I'd be a soil genius and I'd be doing anything to get on the ground. - Oh, yeah. I've actually overnight read every book and read it post that ever existed about this and suddenly I accidentally became the expert, yeah. - Yes, a hundred percent. But no, I mean, they were pulling bodies out. There was one man who I guess, especially if they're that in that pristine condition, you could probably identify them really well. - Oh, true. Oh, and that's, oh, yeah, that's disturbing. - But then I also wonder like, I don't know how spread out the land was that was getting developed on, because if some of these bodies were in perfect condition, but other ones were like literally bones falling apart, then the soil is either completely different or one of these stories is not true. - Or maybe it's just 50 years later, you know? I mean, 70s, that's a 50 year span and then 70s to 20, 20s, 50 years. So maybe it just, - That's a good point. - Over time, I don't know. But I mean, it's still weird. - Still weird. - But it's still very weird. But maybe it took longer to get to skeletal fill. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. It's, and I also, I would like to ask like, um, I don't have the answer in front of me, but I would love to know what the deteriorating time span is of clothing. Like, hmm, if I was buried in a tux, how long until the tux is, not the problem. I promise you, you can just Google that real quick, then find out. What cause I'd like to, I, if I'm, am I just bones and clothes for a while? Yeah, if you're wearing polyester, but if you're wearing a wool, I was probably going to go right with you. What about a linen or a hemp? I feel like hemp is going to go right with you too. That's where biodegradable I would say. Realistically, if I am getting buried period, it would should be in tie dye. I want that on the record. Yeah, and that'll never decay. So if I, if I'm ever buried and then someone finds me and I'm not in tie dye, I'm telling you my last thing my last wish is to then put tie dye on the skeleton. So I would say like foul play. And I was like, I'm on the case, but no, you just want to change shirt and change your fucking shirt. Not, not it. I, I fucking, I'll touch your skeleton. You wouldn't touch my skeleton. No, fuck no. No, I wouldn't touch your, you would touch my skeleton, you fucking freak. If it were to help you, yeah. Well, how would that help me? Don't touch my skeleton. What if you were touching my skin? What if you weren't in tie dye and that was your last request? You wouldn't, fucking tie dye. You wouldn't at least drape it on me. I'm naked. You're not going to put anything on my naked skeleton. That's so fucked up. No, no, I don't want to hear it. No, no, no, no, I'm all about consent. I consent to putting fucking tie dye on my skeleton. Drop with you. So now you're not, how about this? I don't consent to you not putting tie dye on my skeleton. So you better fucking do it. I don't consent to this collaboration. Thank you. It's like kind of fucked up. You don't want me to like, to rest easy, but okay, whatever. I mean, not at my, look, how about this? What if this skeleton is just bones? It's not like there's like anything rotting anymore. It's just, okay, that oh my god, you're alive wrong enough that I have a skeleton. I thought of like it was still smelling like something. That makes it like, no, if I'm just like a cartoon skeleton and there's nothing. No, that's what I was imagining in the first place that I was already freaked out. And then you added like rotting flesh to the picture and it didn't have a situation. I don't know how to come back from this. I think I was would just be afraid like, you know, sometimes I touch a tree and I'm like, oh, it's talking to me. I think I just, oh, I'm weird. Oh, okay. I would be more worried about like a spider web in your eyeball or something. That'd be crazy. Like a little cockroach comes out. Oh my god, you're making it. Okay, never want to touch anyone skeleton and you're making it worse. I'm thinking about it in terms of cartoons where like, like, there's like little buggies and stuff in a skull. Well, I'm thinking about it in terms of a human skeleton. Hmm, interesting. Okay. Well, I'll ask Allison. I'm not dressing your naked skeleton and I'm putting that out in the record right now. If someone cancelled me, try. Go ahead, do it. I don't care. If someone digs up my body one day and there is not tie dye, you know what to do. Don't fucking come for me. First, you write an evil letter to Christine saying, no, then you have a tie party around my grave. And so I thought that you wore tie dye hemp into your grave and it dissolved immediately. That's a great point. Okay. First, you have to find the toughest material possible and find the, like, whatever they make the soil, Texaco, whatever Texaco put in the soil over the cemetery. Just weave that into the fabric. Well, okay. So these two people, I'm assuming one was in a suit. He's the one holding the flower. And then there was a woman who had still very vibrant red hair. And she was dressed in all black. And it was vintage clothing from the like 1880s. So she was one of the first bodies there and looked fucking. Would you rather touch that body or just just bones? If I look like me, but I think it's, no, I think it's the fact that it's you. Like I would touch another. I know. No, I think I would touch because I would feel like, oh, that's invasive. Like I'm touching through your whole body. I'm literally begging for it. But like, okay. Oh my god. I don't know. It's now I'm re-evaluating everything. Just know that if, if, like, you, a braver in a situation where you had to, even if you didn't want to, know that I'm giggling the whole time. Like I'm like, oh, that you're making and you're fucking putting a worm in your own eye to scare me. You're like, you're trying to make it so much worse. No. I, uh, if I really truly had to, yes, I would touch your skeleton. But I don't want to. I really don't want to. I do know what you mean, though. It's kind of like, like, I'm like, I'll just change our skeleton because it feels fake. Yeah, it feels like more fake. Like I'm like, oh, I'll touch the skeleton. But it's like, oh, I don't know who that was. And I've like severed ties. But if I touch your skeleton, I'm like, ah, no, I know. It's just weird. It feels, it feels invasive. No, I know. I mean, because I would also, um, like if I, hopefully not, like, saw like a dead body, if I didn't have an emotional attachment to it, it'd be a lot easier to walk away from that. Exactly. Exactly. That's, yeah. It feels like a little more, like too real. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't feel real because it's you've invented a cartoon scenario. But, you know, in the case where I do have to redress your naked skeleton, I'll reconsider. I'll think about it. You could, you could pay someone else to do it. I just need you to be in charge of it. Oh, I thought it was like, dare you. I don't need you to hold me while you dress me. I thought like it was just like to touch the bones. And that was the whole thing. Okay. I know I can handle it. I can handle it. I'll do a whole ceremony. I will set up an entire ceremony. You know that. I promise. Okay. That's fine. Yeah. Just afford the best. That's all I need to do. I don't have to touch your, your rotting corpse, then someone else can handle it. And if you had to do it with your own hands, you're allowed to say, oh, oh, oh, the whole time. I won't be for so long. Okay. Okay. Okay. As long as you're not going to be offended from the beyond. No, no. I would be like, I get it. That's crazy. But like, this will be like so appreciate it. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Then I can then I found the counts. That's fine. I can agree to that then say. Okay. So now to round this out. This is where I tell you. So as we know that there's about 50 bodies that were once buried here. And one of them being this randomly well-preserved woman in a full black vintage outfit and she was one of the bodies that the construction workers didn't want anyone messing with. And so they rebaried her down by the look. Yeah. They had good intuition because you know, you don't mess with it. Like, you don't make her into the highway. Oh, bad thing would happen if you turn her into a freeway, my friend. She'd be alive. She's like, I somehow like beat the odds and still look this damn good a whole century later. And you're going to make me a road myself. And you built a fucking freeway ramp. I can't honestly. Maybe they like had just a shitty values as they're like their project manager and they were willing to like just toss the bodies in a burlap sack. But then they saw they were like oddly preserved and they're like, this feels like. The universe was like actually, it's not even worth it. You've got to be careful here. Yeah. Well, okay. So 50 bodies are were once buried here, probably more still exists and they just haven't hit, you know, broken ground yet. But not only were they buried here, but all most, if not all, we're all unceremoniously relocated without any family consent, without any knowledge of it. And then on the property, they built the hungry hunter steakhouse, which is now as the hunter steakhouse. Okay, okay. Interesting. And so this is known as a very haunted restaurant. It does have a plaque on the building commemorating the bodies that were found on the property. So at least we're acknowledging it. It's like the only proof anywhere of us acknowledging it. I mean, what are you going to do? Nothing, I guess. Put a block up. So most of the activities on the second floor, but throughout all the building, the doors slam open and shut by themselves. People here allowed boots walking around. Objects move. There are power surges where lights are flickering and electricity goes off for no reason. Chandeliers, which I spelled as Chandlers. Oh, Chandlers swing on their own. There are windows upstairs that first of all have never been opened and people constantly feel drawn to stare out of. Ew. Hate that. Things throw themselves across the shelves, wine bottles rearrange themselves, the fridge will lock itself shut. This one's for you. People say that they see a cowboy sitting at the end of the bar. Well, well, well, well, well, I know we're pretty meeting sitting. And see meeting you here at this haunted stake house by the sea. Like, if it had to be haunted, it had to be you. And then the bartender's like, she's been waiting here every day for six years for somebody for somebody interested. Yeah, she's just desperate. She's unwell. Apparitions are seen moving around by the fireplace so that can be a full body that could be a face coming out of like the chimney area. Oh my gosh. There are like vague mists that come out, but there's something about the fireplace. It feels like a portal, you know? Like, that gives very portal energy. The fact that like different shapes and things are coming out of the fireplace so all things. Exactly right. That is what one of the sources talked about. Oh, excellent. A woman is seen in the storage area as well as near the stairs. And get this, she is seen in all black and 1800s. I was about to ask. Holy shit. So I don't know if it is for sure the same woman that they found where there's just multiple, right? It could very good point. There could be any other woman in vintage black clothing. But I mean, that would make it fun. But I would say, also like this is the most recognizable ghost. you have an opportunity to like compare and contrast with like if her how did no one take a picture in the 70s of this perfectly preserved corpse. You know somebody that did and it's in someone's grandpa's photo box in the attic. You got to go look folks. That's why you got to be nosy. Please just stop being nosy. There's probably a construction worker grandpa who took a photo and they're like don't leak this anywhere and they just put it in their stuff. Yeah, something like that. It's it had to and but I wish that existed purely for science. So that way we had something to compare this woman too. So we would know if it was the same woman. I want to know for science. Ugh, everyone start digging in your grandpa's attic. So immediately. So immediately. People also claimed to feel a hostile male presence who has given intelligent EVP responses. One of them was get out. Yeah, it's very intelligent. Very intelligent. People also hear banging from the attic. The alarm system goes off at night by itself. Women hear someone whistling at them and they also feel something touching them and playing with their hair. The credit card machine. I know, I can't stand it. It gives me like, he be duties like like more or less than playing with my skeleton. Literally as you could tell nothing gives me more he be duties than the idea of playing with your skeleton. Thank you. Okay, thanks. You know it breaks me out. Remember earlier when you said your brother gets you hot and bothered. Hey, first of all, you are misquoting me. Slender. Second of all, that was off the record. That was before we started recording. Thank God. Off the record. No, I said that and then I said, oh my God, that's not what I meant. I meant I'm hot. I'm annoyed and it really bothered actually bothered and it got you like warm. I learned that the hard way in about software year of college and it was incredibly embarrassing. Okay. And I remember the moment I found out, I don't even remember what I said, but I said hot and bothered and somebody in the room had to be like, Christy. That's awful. Yeah, I was and I was talking about something that was not meant shouldn't have been in that context. Like about your brother again or what? I mean, like maybe, but it was probably more like we were in class and they were like that. You can't say that we're in a class and that's a professor and that's just like you can't say that. I just watched a below deck episode where the I think she was French, but she clearly spoke another language before English and she was trying to say I'm excited about something and like, oh, I'm excited to like be the bartender this time around and she like told her the person in charge where she's like, oh, I'm really horny about this. Like that's the vibe. It's like, is that not the phrase? You know, it feels very French. The other person was like, nope, wrong word. Not that. Start over. No, to defend Christy and she said, God, he just gets me so. Nope. No, no. That's not nice. Hey, how did you phrase it? You ended it with, oh, nope, I didn't mean to like that. Okay, it wasn't even I said, I said, I have this other microphone here and I was using the wrong one. That's right. That's right. It doesn't matter. I did not. As I said, trying to quote you, I knew it was off. I knew it was off. But it got me going. It really made my day to. Yeah, I knew. Oh, man, I shouldn't know. I shouldn't know. No, come back. It's okay. It was very funny. I kind of wish it had been recorded so I needed to be sent here. Can't believe it. Okay, so then the last thing I'm going to say is that apparently the credit card machine at this place goes nuts and like just freaks out by itself. People hear their names being called all the time when they're alone in the building. And then there's a photo I want to show you which is one of the servers. It's you show me. Okay, you better tell me what it is. I'm gorgeous. I'm so afraid of any photographic evidence of this place. I will say I have earned your skepticism. So thank you. It's a it's a server but it feels like this is someone who like was actually a customer here. Maybe both. There's a picture of a woman at the table and there's a figure behind her but nobody was behind her when the picture was taken. So I'm sending you that picture right now. It's like a straight-up person, bro. It's like clearly not for that. No, absolutely not even a little bit for any of this. I'd rather not. I mean that looks like great out until the accident when we got out of her bed in the middle of the night and like stumbled into the pilot where we're playing a card game and everyone's like, oh, that's just came back to bed. It really does look like like she looks like they're in like like in a gown like like a like a night gown. It also looks like she's gonna stab me. I'm so afraid of her. Holy shit. It does look like right before like in a horror movie where the camera would like focus on the other person. Uh-huh. It's just a blurry figure. And the person at the table is just having a great old time with an A1 and a long island I see. She doesn't know my god. No idea. Oh, anyway, so that is the one of a cemetery in the understake house. That was fucking terrifying. Why am I so scared of that? I don't know. I don't know. I think you're right that it had some sort of like, I don't know why I felt personal for some reason. It feels a little like weird and like I wonder what's going on with these people that are and there's probably more people down there. Well, the plaque even says that there's like there's probably others that reside right here. To places that. Holy shit. There's probably other ones. I mean if you accidentally stumped, there wasn't a quote from like Captain Marvel, which like even though that movie came out much later after a bunch of other superhero movies, it was the prequel. Like it was a prequel that was filmed. Right. I mean, and what you find out is that when they discovered Captain Marvel, they said like there's got to be others like her. We weren't even looking for her and we found her. And then because of that, they go seeking out all these other super people and create the Avengers. And my mind is in a much sadder version of that, where they're like, we weren't even looking for any bodies. And we found 50 and now, you know, like there has to be the end of it. Hundreds here. There has to be so many. At that point, I would just, I mean, part, I mean, I wouldn't because it'd be like just disrespecting all the other buys, but part of me would just be like, let's just scrape the whole land clean. But you're just going to be the great. The grading suddenly, you know, all about land grading. You're going to grade the whole cliff side off. You're right. Yeah. I don't know. It's wrong on me. I certainly wouldn't build a stakeout there. I'll tell you that. I like that you're like, I'll throw the whole thing into the ocean, but I wouldn't build a building on top of it. That feels wrong. Yeah. I would just honestly just leave it the fuck alone. As soon as you find out that it was once a burial ground, why was anyone touching it? Because it's a fucking ace piece of property. Look around. It was, I mean, it's a beautiful piece of property, I think. I mean, I mean, I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying why, probably, you know, no, it makes sense why someone decided to do it. Okay. Wow. Good job. I'm sick of those funny duddies trying to, trying to take my money and fees and stuff and not even like rewarding me for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm ready for chime and the revolution is here, folks. Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 an annual rewards fee-free and direct deposits the unlocked the most rewarding ways to bank at chime. You can get 5% cash back on chime cards in a category of choice like gas or groceries. And it's just, it's all different. It's so much more helpful. I'm also sick of these funny duddies. Not even mention it. Not even mention it. Yeah. I know, right? Like, let's all get on board here. You can even get up to $500 of your pay when you pay with my pay. And you get, as M always knows, my favorite premium travel perks like airport lounge access. Don't mind if I do. Thank you so much, chime card. And 24/7 travel concierge included with your time card too. Ula-la. I'm just, I'm just telling you. So chime is changing the way that people bank they offer the most rewarding fee-free banking built for you. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees, which funny duddies. It's funny duddies. Those are the only ones I dealt with for a long time. And I'm glad I have to deal with it no mo. No more. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free today. Head to chime.com/drink. That is chime.com/drink. It only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details. We recently went through our bathroom stuff. Chime is always so scary. Try to do it with a declutter. Yeah, there's nothing scarier than drawers. Sticky. Sticky in there. Sticky, slimy things explode. I was like, "Alson, you cannot keep all of this." And she said, "Fine, fine, I'll get rid of everything, but I'm not going to get rid of the OSEA. I'm not getting rid of." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I have my next shot on my counter because they come in these beautiful glass little. And I love a pump bottle. Oh, it's so chic. It's so chic. And they have this. This is what I've wanted. And I feel like I didn't know how to put it in towards. But they have this hyaluronic body serum. And after I take a shower, I put it on. And it helps so much with the evenness of my skin tone, which is something I don't really talk about, but I've been really insecure about my skin on my legs. And this stuff, freaking, works. It really does. It really does. Yeah, it's shown to deliver instant 24-hour multi-level non-stop hydration, instantly boosting hydration by 161% after one used to support the skin's moisture barrier. And it's a mother daughter found its skin care brand. And I had to hear that one time and go, "Love it." Yeah, I'm in. Yeah. Yeah. But they use the power of seaweed and the healing wisdom of the ocean. And for 30 years, OSEA has stayed consistent with clean, clinically tested skin care from the sea. OSEA's hyaluronic body serum is multi-layer hyaluronic-powered hydration for the entire body. And right now, we have a special discount just for you. Get 10% off your first order site-wide with code drink at OSEAMALBOO.com. Okay, hello, everyone. We're back from Yaviy Hour. I'm just like fucking blew my mind with that storytelling of just a little old thing about like solving it, fuck. legacy mystery of the family like beyond the being led beyond the grave. I mean, come on. And like you make it sound a lot more magical than it. No, it's fucking crazy. I mean, you said it very matter of fact, but I think it's pretty darn. It's pretty darn cool, folks. Anyway, so I'm going to tell you a true crime case today. This is unfortunately the story of the murder of Jody Lumis. And it begins in the 70s, August 23rd, 1972, when we're in Snohomish County, Washington, which is on the Puget Sound. I imagine you know more about that than I do. Because of Washington. Yeah, the entire area. I don't know. It says it's right north of Seattle. I'll tell you whenever I'm visiting my family on the highway, there are signs that direct me towards things that say Puget. Okay. Puget Sound. I mean, I don't know nothing else. I listen to the death cap for cuties. So, you know, I get the vibe, right? So today, 68% of Snohomish County is forested land. And at the time, much of the area was rural farmland. Walter Morris. Oh my god. I'm telling you, Walter M. Oh, you got to write that down. Now that would be something else. I'm literally writing Walter Morris down. And then if I ever stumble across it, that'll blow my mind. To write down episode 490, just so you're not like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. Like, because otherwise, you'd be like, what the fuck? Um, whoa, that would be weird. But yeah, Walter again. Remember, we had Walter for a while, like stalking us on the show. There's always a Walter amongst us. Wow. So Walter Morris and Kathy Goggle were out in the woods to practice shooting. And on their way, they had to stop because there was a large log blocking the road. So they get out of the car to move the tree. And when they look into the woods, they notice a body lying on the ground. When they approach to see if this woman is okay, she doesn't respond. And obviously, they can tell immediately something terrible has happened to her. She was lying on her back, wearing a pair of boots, long socks and underwear. Her blue jeans and other clothes had been removed and scattered on the ground around her. The couple noted a terrible wound on the side of her head, but she was still breathing. So there was no way to call for help and leaving one person behind while the other went for help would have been dangerous because like, if somebody had attacked this woman, they could still be in the woods, like hiding about a tree or they could come back. So instead, they carried her to the car, put her in the passenger seat and rushed to the nearest hospital. And while one of them drove the other, the other one held the woman's head upright to try and keep her airway open. Like, that's how far gone she was. At the hospital, there was no way to identify the young woman. She didn't have an ID on her or any other personal belongings aside from her clothing. Now, we cut back two hours earlier when 20-year-old Jody Lumis left home to ride her horse, which was stabled on a nearby property four miles away. She was a middle child of three and she lived at home in Bothal, everything pronounced there differently than I think it is. I agree. Same with Craig. I'm like the Midwest. Like, yes, like Versailles. Yeah, good old Versailles. Yeah. So hopefully, I'm saying the right Bothal. If not, please forgive me. Washington with her parents, Rosemary and John Sr. She had one younger sister named Jana and a fiance named Jim, whom her family really loved. And Jana actually considered Jim an older brother, so really part of the family. Her 27-year-old brother, John, was married and was kind of like living off with his own family. That day, Jody borrowed 12-year-old Jana's boots. Her little sister's boots and left for the stable on a bike. Jody, at this point, was an adult and her parents were fairly relaxed. They just kind of wanted her home by dark. And they're out in rural area. They just let her go be with her horse and stuff. And it had never been a problem before, but when evening came around, darkness falls, Jody is not home and immediately her parents are very concerned. Before she had left the house, it was family rules that you had to have a dime on you for the payphone in case something happened. And that was standard and she did have the dime confirmed it and she left. So having heard nothing long after dark, her family's freaking the fuck out. They start calling friends, hospitals, finally the police to report her missing. Even like, you have to imagine you're like hoping that she dropped the coin or use the dime on something else at some point. Totally, totally. And like got lost. Yeah, oh my god. I mean, just the just the dread. I can't imagine we're just so lucky in some ways that like just I can't imagine. It's just a totally different world. Yeah. I can't imagine not having like find my not being just you just have to hope that people are fine. You just have to hope that people are. Yeah. Now you can be like, oh, they're at the grocery store on fine. My friends or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. That's so yeah. So after they call the police, the police show up at the door and yeah, you don't like to see that. So the police arrive at the Luma's home to tell them they believe their daughter had been brought to the hospital earlier that day, grievously wounded, and had since passed away. They believe in the car on the way to the hospital that that's where she died, which is just terribly. She was like being taken to the hospital. So they had to have John senior the dad go to the hospital to confirm whether this was his daughter. So Jana later recalled the little sister in an interview that her mother collapsed on the floor. The whole family was horrified. Like she just went out to write her horses. She always did and now she was dead. Jody was positively identified in the hospital by her father. And shortly after her death, the coroner ruled that Jody had been raped and that she had been killed by a gunshot wound to the head. Jesus. Yes. Fired from a 22 caliber handgun. So just in cold blood. Because Jody was in her boots with one tied and the other untied. And she seemed to have been shot from like an upper angle. They think that this attacker had raped her. And then as she was putting her shoes back on, had shot her. I made her think for a second like, okay, now you can go put yourself on. I know. It's a really horrendous detail. Detectives had bagged Jody's boots as evidence and collected seminal fluid from her underwear. But this was pre-DNA technology. So they had almost nothing to go on forensically, especially this has been outside. Instead, they focused immediately on witnesses and anyone who might have had the opportunity to kill Jody that day. They of course question the fiance Jim, but he was at work and he worked at the hospital where she was brought. Oh my god. Yeah. And he didn't even know she was there until he was on shift and he didn't know she was there until she had already passed. Just mind boggling. Detectives then began questioning the rice family. They were the ones who rented the more than 1,000 acre property where Jody's horse was stable and where she was attacked and abandoned. So when police arrived on the property, 12-year-old Alan Rice was outside cutting wood with his father Ken Rice. They were both questioned. Of course, both denied having anything to do with Jody. You would when it you, you know, just saying it doesn't just convince me a much. I feel like you have to assume everyone's going to say I didn't do it. Right. What's this man's word over anybody? Real diamond in the rough when someone goes, yep, you found me. Yeah, seriously. It's like, yeah, okay. Sure, Ken, whatever. I don't know. It just bothers me anyway. So they were like, no, we had nothing to do with any of it. And we had no knowledge of her presence on the property. Now, Kendra Rice, her, that's her maiden name, was 14 years old. She has since changed her name to Macorro or Macorro. She was 14 years old at the time and ran an outdoor fruit stand farther out on a busier road where she sold produce that her family grew on the farm. And she remembered seeing a young blonde woman go by on a bike and then later two men in a station wagon. So detectives question a group of men who sometimes met on the property that also went nowhere though. Now near the trail where she was killed, they discovered Jody's bike and a dime nearby. Oh, shit. What? I mean, okay, I'm, I know how this goes. This doesn't go well. I would like to think in that moment though, I was hopeful that like everyone's got coins back then. Like that, it could be any coin. Wait, what? We found a dime next to the, you said a shoe or a sock next to her bike. Oh, next to her bike. But I would say like there was like loose change everywhere all the time back then. So like, hopefully, it's not her dime. Like hopefully, I mean, it, it what, well, it ends up being her dime. I don't wait. Why would it matter though? Or would it matter? Like at the time, I would be, if I were her parents or something, I would be like hopeful that maybe it wasn't her dime as like more added evidence to this. Like, okay, they found her bike next to coins. Well, they already have her bought. I mean, she's already dead. Yep. You're totally right. I was like, I feel like it's too late for any sort of. And like I was literally right here when you told me that like her dad had to go like five. Yeah. I think I just blacked that out. That's okay. Okay. No, that does make more sense. Why you would not want it to be the coin. Yes. But okay, now I'm totally fine. Fortunately, yeah, near where she was killed, they discovered her bike and a dime, presumably the one that she had brought with her. But they never found the horse bridal that she had taken to the stable. So nobody knows what happened to that. Upon discovering a red jacket in the woods that belonged to the father, Ken Rice, he was again questioned. But this time he admitted to having seen Jody on her bicycle, which made him the last known witness to see her alive. And he said he'd also seen these two hippie-ish men in the station wagon that his daughter had also described and that he'd heard motorcycles in the area. But he did maintain that he had not heard any gunshots and that even if he had people were shooting on the property regularly, so it wouldn't have necessarily raised an alarm. And at this point, even though they found her, like his jacket with her, did they find the jacket on the thousand acre property, like in the woods, but it wasn't like where she was attacked or anything like that. It was just like in the general vicinity of the woods. Does that be a ding, ding, ding for you or would that be like, oh, that's weird? For me, like as a, like if you were, if you discovered that because I feel like I was still thinking like, well, that doesn't feel like it. I mean, if it's his land, I don't think it's that weird, yeah. Okay. I think they were just combing the woods again and they were like, hey, we found your jacket. So they questioned him again. But the fact that he changed his story this time and said, I did actually see her is like what was alarming, you know? And then confirming that he also saw two people or saying he saw two people in a station wagon. And very quickly, they like kind of ran out of any evidence and the trail went cold. Poor Janna, the little sister was left with like no answers. And she'd always thought of Jody as like her big, strong older sister, right? So now it's like, how could somebody not only hurt her, but like kill her? And we just don't even know who it is. She'd been a lover of the outdoors, animals, people like she had been very vocal about standing up for like the underdog. So at one point, like people, she saw someone shooting pigeons just for fun and she like intervened, you know? And she had a very like a personality of authority is how Janna described it. And so then when she just winds up leaving the house for a few hours and is dead, it was like such a shock to her system. And she even, when she intervened with that person shooting the pigeons, she actually brought one of the wounded pigeons home and rehabilitated it. She was also an artist, she sold her carvings at local shops. And Janna said she was everything as an older sister that Janna strived to be as a person. And that just got to me. And now suddenly she, her little sister, Janna and her best friend Pat are like in this like void of her absence and no answers, no closure. In the years following, Jody's killing. There were several times detectives did follow up on tips. They went entertaining multiple possibilities, but everything kind of like faltered out. One of the tips they investigated was a motorcycle gang called the Reaper, the Reaper's Roadmen. And I'm not laughing at them, please, I'm so scared. They're like, first of all, they're listening to our show and they think the cigar to their mouth and go, what the hell do you call this? I'm so scared. The motorcycle gang, the Reaper's Roadmen and there no joke, one of the roadmen apparently reported to police that other roadmen had described the rape and murder of a young woman with a 10 speed bike. And it sounded like Jody's story. So he reported this, nope, apparently just another story or-- I'll try another victim or whatever. Exactly, exactly. One of the roadmen had actually shot, who was talking about this attack, this rape, had actually shot aimlessly at a passing train and had struck the conductor. And his weapon was a 22 caliber pistol, which is a same that was used to murder Jody. So they were like, okay, there is some substantive stuff here. Upon FBI analysis, it was not the murder weapon. For a minute, they thought maybe it was Ted Bundy, but he was in a different part of the country. And years would just pass, and the Luma's family preserved Jody's room just as it was when she died, which always is so eerie and haunting and tragic to me. I think I do the exact same thing, but I know, it's a memorial, yeah, I wouldn't either. So I mean, I don't know what I would do, but like, yeah, I imagine I would probably do something similar. Let's see, years passed. Her death haunted them as well as the wider community, because the killer was never caught. It also haunt, well, at the time, it also haunted Kendra, Rice, Nay Rice, who was certain that her brother, Alan, the 12 year old at the time, could not have been involved. But in the back of her mind, she had this nagging thought that her dad may have been capable of something so horrible. I mean, any, yeah, I totally believe heard that there must have been signs for her to think that. But also, I imagine if there was a family tragedy like this, it does make you question everybody all of a sudden. You're like, yes, well, here's, here's your answer. He'd made comments about women in her childhood, especially while watching TV and said, and said, she said in an interview that because of what she had personally experienced at his hand, she could not be sure that he wasn't involved. Her father sexually abused her and her sisters. They used to padlock their bedroom doors, the daddy's to padlock their bedroom doors. And so, you know, she's like, well, he wasn't, he treated me this way, like who's to say, that he didn't do this to someone else and something even worse and, and killed her. Okay, so this says here, they'd love to see the product on screen. Mudwater, unfortunately, I use it my kitchen because it's become part of my routine. I'm just gonna hope that you trust me that mudwater has become one of my favorite little routines. And they sent along like a little froth or foam or thing and I make like this nice little, oh my god, I know it's called mudwater folks, but it is like the most soothing little ritual I have now. It's, it's like caffeine, but like without that crazy buzz. I mean, you were just saying that like you realized you have been taking in a lot of sugar. And so much caffeine like because when I quit drinking totally, it was like I, I reverted to that. And so mudwater like came in right at the exact perfect time. So now instead of like a second cup of coffee, I'll drink my mudwater. And because they gave the starter kit, I sent the starter kit my way, super easy. That it's like the OG, it's like an original chai chocolate. It's so delicious and lovely. I'm just, I'm really, I'm feeling it because I'm with it. They have chai chocolate, they have coffee, matcha, and turmeric. I know Alson would go for the turmeric. No matter what your flavor is, you know, give it a shot, get ready to make the switch to cleaner energy, go to mudwater. That's M U D W T R dot com slash drink and grab the starter kit, use code drinking. You'll get 43% off. The froth are alone is worth it. It's true. That's right up to 43% off with code drink at M U D W T R dot com. After your purchase, they'll ask how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. So Kendra continued following the case, feeling unable to let it go. And because it was like on her property, like you said, like, it's also just so tied to her own family lore at this point. Yeah. And it seemed like for decades that nobody would get any answers, but in 2005, and it's like not, this is also, I just have so many question marks. In 2005, the Loomis family received a phone call informing them that a new cold case unit was reviewing the case. It had been 32 years by this point. And they were confident because they had this seminal fluid from her underwear. They were confident that they could use DNA technology now to lead them to a suspect. Then the family immediately got a call that, oops, they've actually lost all the evidence, so we don't even have it. And I'm like, could we have waited a minute to make sure we fucking have the evidence? Everything from, yeah, it's like, why would you even say we have this like substantial collection of, I mean, I'm not like blaming that I'm sure there was just a reason for how it was all. I mean, if you're this mad, imagine the parents being right exactly like talking about a fucking let down, you know, I mean, it's just crushing. They were like completely destroyed, right? And because they like their hope, it's just like you're being strong along, you know? So three years later in 2008, they were able to actually recover DNA from fluids on Jody's left boot. So they were able to find more evidence. The DNA was submitted to Kodis, but there was no match, which means that whoever had done this had not been caught for anything in all this time, you know? And their DNA had not been entered into the system. And Janice said at this point, it was so devastating because she didn't know if she'd ever see the face of the person who murdered her sister. She kept holding on and waiting for any break in the case. There was a tip about the stable owner where the horse was kept. And his wife had been one of Jody's friends, but he had made like upsetting sexual comments to Jody, enough that her father had actually gone over there and confronted the man. And he had no alibi. But when they did a DNA test on this now elderly man, he was ruled out. They again asked Ken and Alan Rice and both submitted DNA samples, but neither of them matched. So Kendra was like relieved to be rid of the anxiety that her father had done this. And was able to let that go finally, thankfully. But the family, of course, was still waiting for answers at this point. So detectives began filing warrants and just taking DNA from everyone ever considered in the case down to individual members of the Reapers Roadmen. In 2018, it had been been 46 years since Jody was murdered and the coroner, the original detectives on the case, all of them had since died. But Jody's mother Rosemary was still alive. And Janna was caring for her in her old age, hoping that maybe there was a chance like rape of her, you know, in the last few years, and then as the sister being like, this is the last chance to like give her some peace. So it was that year when detectives on Jody's case learned about our favorite forensic genealogy, which of course we've talked about a lot on the podcast. He sent the DNA profile to a genetic genealogist who spent, as M was even talking about doing the mystery work spent 58 hours in three days, which like it takes somebody with our effed up brains to do shit like that, but it really, it goes away when you get in that zone and it's like 50 hours of three days, like, hello, we know what that is. Okay. It spent 58 hours and three days digging for suspects led to a trail of seven children. The Miller family, six sons, one daughter, unfortunately, not one son and six daughters would have made it easier to narrow down the seminal fluid. But anyway, the investigative team believed one of the sons was Jody's killer. That's how close the match was. And when they, I know, I can't believe it. When they looked into the family, they discovered that one of the brothers, 77 year old Terrence Miller, had a criminal history and he had been arrested for sexual crimes against children, but he was free to go as long as he completed counseling. I can't. Okay. I can't. So he was all at this point or at 77, 77, and I was trying to think like, would it even be worth it for him to go to jail? But yeah, I think 77 still has a lot. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Just wait a moment. Okay. Because that, wow, yeah, you really, really psychic today. So he was also accused of sexually abusing his own children and then his grandchildren. Certain that Terrence was Jody's killer. Investigators began to follow him, Aula, Golden State killer waiting for him to leave his DNA somewhere. Like he was destined at this point to interact. Well, no, they were looking for his DNA. I get it. I'm sorry. I should look up actually. That's like very criminal minds. They're like, wait, they're like planting. Like waiting for him to plot again, you just meant like for them to just leave DNA somewhere. So leave DNA somewhere yet. Like when the Golden State killer, they went through his trash and all that. So they got that opportunity, August 29, 2018, when he drank coffee in a casino through the cup in the trash, police swooped that bad boy up, sent it to be tested, fucking ding, dong, match confirmed. Janet told her mother the update and that investigators were so close to catching the man who killed Jody and they now knew who it was. And Rosemary was beaming all night long. Oh, good. I know. So after building the case against Terrence for months, which was difficult because the original corner and detectives were dead and couldn't be, you know, brought to the stand, obviously, on last. I'm just kidding. Authorities announced his arrest in 2019, which was 47 years after Jody's murder. And this was a shock because he was now living in Edmunds, Washington, which was like really close to what he had done almost 50 years ago. That's crazy. And the lead sheriff's brother and his brother's wife had been on the same bowling team for six years. Yeah. Like, this was like someone like a talk about pillar of the fucking community bullshit party. You wonders like, is it just because it was a small town or is it like, was he kind of doing the whole, like you always run back to the scene of the crime and was he like, trying to hide it open around on the case to hear, I mean, it seems like he just kind of hung around the area. But I don't know. Yeah, you don't know. So Senator though, because if I committed anything that could put me in drill, I would be on the other side of the country. I would have left the country. He's literally been gone to come for a sexually assaulting his own children and grandchildren. So I'm like, it seems like he's kind of kind of free to do whatever he wants. It feels like. But yes. So finally, they, people were shocked, I guess. People are always shocked, you know, it's just something. 78-year-old Terrence pleaded not guilty. Wow. Big of him to one charge a first-degree murder. And he gathered his assets to make the nearly $1 million bail. And he was allowed to go home to take care of his wife who had suffered a stroke. So the trial commenced in October of 2020, Janet recalled Terrence being stoic throughout but she looked him in the eye. She said, when you're looking at someone you think murdered your sister, you're going to look them right in the eyes. And she said that on the stand. During the trial, it was very surreal because Janet was able to see her boots in person for the first time in the other 50 years after loaning them to her big sister that day to go ride horses. Wow. It's just like, wow. The prosecution made their closing arguments on Friday, November 6th. The jury reconvened Monday, November 9th. And guilty, guilty verdict. But he would not be imprisoned for what he did because that morning he had died by suicide. Show the fuck up. He had shot himself with the same type of gun he had used against Jody, 22 caliber pistol and the jury was not informed because they wanted like a pure deliberation and they wanted the answer. And so Terrence's attorney was like, well, no, like, uh, and they were like, well, no, whether he's alive or not, doesn't diminish the verdict. They had the evidence that they had and yeah. So, uh, yeah, at least there was the verdict, but at least he was found guilty, I guess, but I know. I know. I know. I'm suffering zero percent for it. Yeah. The defense accused Walter Morris, one of the people, remember Walter, one of the people who had discovered Jody and the woods of being involved because his story about the day had changed with confusion over whether he and Kathy were like going shooting or picking berries. And, um, she said death seemed preferable to letting a jury decide a verdict on tainted evidence. This is a terrible tragedy that began with Jody Luma's death and is compounded by an innocent man taking his own life. But the prosecution was like, no, it's not the guy who was going very picking. It was this fucking monster. Okay. Um, Jody's family was like happy about the answer, but also like, like you said, frustrated. Um, Jody's older brother, John said he got away with it for 48 years. I was so glad they finally got him just as was almost done. And Janice said that after the conviction, she felt like she could finally breathe. She had not written horses for years since Jody's death. And she began writing horses again with her own daughter. And she just felt like a bit of a weight lifted and she said, I miss her for all my years that I had with her and for all the years that I didn't have with her. And that is the story of Jody Luma's just pretty tragic. It's a, yeah, that's a, I'm glad that they found the guy and like, the family got closure, like I can't be mad about it. And I hope it fucking scares the shit out of every other motherfucker who's out there as a grandfather. It really is one of those bowling league you fuck, you know, what was one of those cases just in, in the timeline of, of things that like, it sounds like it all started before DNA was something that he even had to consider. Yep. Right. But they're shaking in their fucking boots now, these fuckers, you know, then again, I would also be terrified of ever leaving my DNA anywhere, all of us are not terrified. They're monsters. It's crazy that they're just so confident in all of this. Just brazen. It's great. I mean, like, they get away with it. I fucked up part two is like, he was kind of right for a long time. He got away with it for a long time, like, yeah, but still horrible. It's gonna be paying some karmic justice. Good storytelling. I say that every time I, there's no other positivity I can give. Well, thank you. I'm feeling super hot and bothered by this weather, so I'm sorry, I don't know why I brought it up. I just really, it was so silly. And no one else got to hear it. I know. You really were disappointed. We weren't recording when I said it, so it was so funny. It really made my day. Oh, my god, it was like the first thing I said after not seeing you for two weeks. I knew when you said it. I knew what you meant, but it just. And it was like coming out though I was not, not what I was going for anyway. It really tickled me. I just wanted everyone else to also be tickled. Okay. Well, thank you for listening to our podcast. You can find us every Sunday or the first of the month for a listener's episode. And you can check us out at ATW podcast or and that'swaydrink.com. And? That's. Why? Drink.