The host shares a mix of personal and humorous experiences, centered around home decor, mental health, and family life. A custom cobblestone fireplace from Wayfair is highlighted as a key design element in a new room, symbolizing creativity and personal style, with a call to explore Wayfair for home transformations. The episode also features a heartfelt discussion on overcoming OCD through specialized therapy and community support, emphasizing the importance of accessible and stigma-free mental health resources. A vivid memory from eighth-grade music appreciation class is recounted, where the host’s dislike of John Mayer led to a D grade and deeper reflections on education, bias, and personal identity. The narrative then shifts to a nostalgic exploration of the Holly Hotel in Michigan, a historic property tied to Carrie Nation’s temperance protests, multiple fires, and a legacy of resilience through renovations. The hotel’s story includes its evolution into a comedy club and restaurant, and its eventual closure due to property disputes after a fire. The segment ends with a promotional mention of First Leaf wine, presented as a thoughtful, personalized gift for everyday life, with a special offer for new subscribers. The episode blends storytelling, personal growth, and practical advice across themes of home, health, and community.
I've told you guys before that I got Alison, well, I tried to surprise Alison with this cobblestone fireplace for the house, and I got it from Wayfair. It's very, very cute, very witchy, very spooky. I feel like underneath the right thick ceiling beams, real or fake. It would look incredible. And by the way, those beams were also on Wayfair. But now it has been moved into what will be the spook easy of our house. And I'm not allowed to see what they're doing in there. Alison and her parents have been working on that day in and day out. And I know that the fireplace has become like the centerpiece that they're working the whole thing around. So I'm very excited to see how it turns out. Wish me luck. I'm hoping it's going to look as spooky as promised. I will take pictures when I finally can see what's going on. All I know is that that fireplace became the focal point of the entire room. So if you would like your own focal point, whether that's a fireplace or a couch or a table or whatever your thing is, you can head over to Wayfair and transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase and head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-r.com. Wayfair every style every home. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA pet health insurance program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog, although very recently we had our first scare he ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that you really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA pet health insurance program offers customizable accident and illness plans that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, even your pet's particular quirks. Like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents because let's be honest that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA pet health insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets and what it's time to submit a claim it's easy just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters your pet my little hankies and to explore coverage visit ASPCA pet insurance.com/drink that's ASPCA pet insurance.com/drink one more time again that's ASPCA pet insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either independence American insurance company or United States fire insurance company and produced by PTZ insurance agency limited the ASPCA is not insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. So I've recently been making some adjustments to my medications underneath the supervision of a professional medical professional, but I will say that I've noticed some more of my OCD tendencies kind of rearing their heads, but I do feel much more equipped now to handle them because of no CD and because of our long standing. Special friendship as I call it I just love the app I love no CD I just love that there are other people who like get me now and it feels like I'm not alone in the world I just love it okay so that's all I need to say I'm going to stop talking now. Well not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively which can make it difficult to find the right help but when you find the right help like Christine then you have a very special friendship and OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP or exposure and response prevention. And with no CD you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD no CD therapists are highly trained so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. No CD therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans so unfortunately for you Christine you're not the only special. I do I want to be I want this to be the more the merrier the most open relationship we can all have because OCD deserves to be talked about people okay don't hide. If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD please don't wait to get help go to no CD dot com and book a free call with their team to learn more that's no CD dot com to schedule a free call and learn more. Do you ever have a class where you had to because I know we both went too very oh hi. Did you ever go to class in eighth grade where you had to learn about music theory but really it was just this man who had a piano and he would play like. See in my sweet heart out the train tracks you know that kind of music I have like I had that exact man in my class really because mine was named Brute oh. I thought I thought we were really on the same page. I didn't have the hello Mahoney hello my darling. That was the one so I actually I actually lot I actually faked a sinus infection to quit band okay and then I ended up in music appreciation it was called. And we had to sing songs like like. Hey good looking what you got cooking you know I feel like there was somebody else I knew who took a music appreciation class but like in college and it was clearly like a one credit just filler class. And I think it was similar words like you just kind of got together and saying. Songs yeah it was you like it no I hated it and I got like a D. How do you get a D and appreciating something I thank you for asking because I didn't appreciate that Shayna would bring in John mayor as our like the CD. And I was like I don't like John mayor and then we had to give like a speech as part of this class to debate something and Brian. So and so not going to give away his whole name did a speech about stem cell research and I was like what the fuck does an eighth grader know about stem cell research and so then I could put a complaint in. And to nobody in particular. I care the care of the eighth grade really showed up yeah well I was not the care well I was the care I you know what fine. I see where you had good reasoning I'll say God knows your heart. I mean listen I was in Catholic school and they were teaching me that stem cells were like murder and I'm like you know I'm going these people are. Dumber than rocks how am I supposed to be listening to what they know about like what the fuck does Ryan. You know about fucking stem cells you're just ahead of your time because as an adult I'm with you but as a kid I would have been like why on earth do we care enough but I. Because then I had to give a speech and I was like sorry I don't think that God is like going to put scientists in hell or whatever the fuck you guys are saying. And I get a D that's fucking crazy also my brother would tell you that that is not what happened but that is in my hearing side thank you and we won't be hearing his side right or ever thank you I won't be texting I'm asking for it so. I what would have been the real power move is a few decided to go up there with your speech and then rip it in half and go I'd actually rather take this time and debunk all the shit that you just said bad. So what if I had any sort of self esteem. If only we could dream and do you think I actually ever put it a complaint note what I did was I went home. You put it a complaint into your own diary is that we're fucking sanctity here's here's what I did. I fully believed what was happening here okay I think it's I fear it might be worse than what you imagine because what happened in reality is I went home and I would tell my mother these things and my mother. Beautiful Leo spirit with some really unchecked. Disregulation no fence mom but we're in Chigong together so I can say that now confidently and so I would come home and I would tell her you know I'm making up a name told me and by the way my mom was pregnant and was having a baby and was saving the stem cell so this is the particular specific. You found the exact who could be most triggered by this conversation. Mommy guess what I mean they're so mean at school and oh did she come in hot and like was it about me no because it of course my mother was very triggered and disregulated and very pregnant and she came in and basically I got in some extreme trouble but not only for that for almost everything I brought home to my mother and then she would like turn around with a megaphone and scream it at the whole school like you know your students are calling my daughter a pilgrim because she wears orthopedic shoes with buckles on them and I'm like why did you scream that into the PA system like now everyone is going you know like you made it worse mother. Is that the version that Sandy would say is accurate. Even he would say wow you're just blowing everything out of proportion and to that I say well maybe I have some wounds about visibility okay. Stem cells are important to fight for I'm on your side. Thank you and like again like give me a fucking break anyway how are you doing. Well please we're going to go backwards what what was your speech about your own speech. What was your D about the D was because we had to take a test that was like 80% of our grade and it was just all about these dumb songs about the like from like the 1910s. Do you remember any of the songs from the 1910s yeah well apparently not as well as I was supposed to but I'm trying to think of like I feel like there's so many I mean one of them was like a good looking so it's whatever time period that was what you got cook and how could you come back in the 1910 something up with me I don't know simply cannot be from the 1910s if it is that was my mind okay well it's from. I'm sorry 1951 okay it was music appreciation and I didn't fucking appreciate it.
- Apparently not. - Apparently not. I lowered my zole off this week, unrelated. - Okay, it doesn't totally show. - My therapist got mad at me and I said, don't worry, I will consult with a medical professional. And then I did, and now we're okay. - Thank you. - Sorry, Hank Williams. - Sorry, Hank. - R-I-P, I guess. I assume he's dead. - I would have given anything to watch you in this music appreciation class, and then the mom comes in and goes, you gave my daughter a D, and they're like, what proof do you have that we should give her anything else? And she's like, I don't know, like Hank Williams. - That's crazy. - I don't know, well, so here's the thing, Renee got the like, superlative like, oh, Renee's gonna be a star. And then I got the like, oh, Christine's gonna be her backup. And so then I got a big complex about that. But that was how we were sort of pitched to our parents, which was very weird. - Interesting. - And also this other girl started calling Renee, a concubine from France. And so then- - I feel like Renee would call a person. - I know, and I was like, do you think I'm offended by that? Or what? - I feel like Renee's like, I've heard worse. - Yeah, no, for real, exactly. I don't know where I was going with that, except I clearly didn't pay any attention to the drifting cowboys, which hang on a second. - That sounds like something you would absolutely pay attention to. - May be Bruce clutching your pearls. - Was onto something. - Maybe I faked that sinus infection and quit trumpet class for a reason. And I'm only now finding my new love. - Maybe this is, it's meant to be really circled. - Look at that fucking hat. What am I supposed to do, saying no? - I don't know what I would do. I just don't know. - I need help. - Did you ever do a public speaking class? - I did. - What was your speech? - I literally dissociated the entire year. What did you do? - We had, it was in college, it was like a gen ed random class. I, and I remember a random girl for my high school was also in that class, and she was mean to me in high school. And then I saw her on college and I thought, oh, maybe things have changed. No, she was still not very nice. - Oh, wow. - But they made us do three different speeches. One of them was like a one minute one, like a three minute one and then a five minute one for you like practice like length, I guess. One of them I did, how to play beer pong. And then, as a non-drinking person, which is amazing, 'cause you really have, I know the rules better than anyone. - That's so effective. - You're like the referee who's like, I'm not playing the game. I'm like observing the game. - Yeah, I know exactly how this fucking, fantastic. Fantastic. - Another one was, I worked at Chipotle, so I think I just told everyone exactly how to make the corn. - I mean, that has to be an A. Maybe the people who really like the corn there, but the teacher did not seem impressed that I was giving him factory secrets. - But that's what I mean, M, is like the teachers are like, no, that's not appreciation. I'm like, I fucking hate John Mayer. Sorry, that's my appreciation for today, but it's not good enough. - And you know what, not liking all musicians is appreciation because if you said I like all of them, you don't give a fucking insane. - You have no ounce of critical analysis for yourself, even if it's wrong, no one is your friend, no one's your fucking friend, not even Hank Williams. - And you know what? - Or Hank Green. - And you would say that in front of John Mayer, but it's like, it's, don't take it personally, John. It's just, there has to be someone I like, and there has to be someone I don't like, and unfortunately you fell into the other category. - Yes, give me out. What am I gonna do about it? - Sorry about it. Sorry about it. - Is that why you drink? Do you drink? What do you drink? What do you drink? (both laughing) - Help. - I'm drinking a morning jolt. - There, okay, well you've heard about these before. - Does it seem that I need that? I did take my ADHD medication, it doesn't seem like it, but I did, and I did take coffee. - That, okay, excellent. Remember last time when you perfectly matched that cup and straw? - Mm. - That was crazy. - I walked upstairs with the bag, and I thought something happened with the straw, and I don't remember. And maybe if I pull the straw today, I'll remember. And I pulled out a blue straw and I went, I have absolutely no fucking clue. But so I thank you for reminding you. - I'm here to remind you. - Thank you. - You were oddly insane. - Oh my NPR shirt. Oh fuck, you're right, I gotta get that back. - You're a little gay cut off. - Yeah. - My gay shirt, oh this is pretty gay too. - I mean, yeah, I think if someone who's like, any percentage gay is wearing a shirt, that makes it a gay shirt, right? - You're right, you're right. - You're right, you're gay. - And that's a really beautiful perspective. - I think that's why I got a G, I think he was just homophobic. - I think he smelled it on you and he went. - He did. - That's not right. - Well he had it. - That's something's up. - Gigantic. - What now? (laughing) - Mm, finished the sentence. - Every way that I was gonna finish that sentence was not gonna sound good. Like it doesn't mean like inappropriate necessarily, but just on any level that I was thinking of ending that sentence, nothing landed in a very correct way. - You certainly locked me in with curiosity. I was like, how could it get all? - I locked you in and then I left and I said, I can't fill in the blank anymore. - I think if you had the ability to just walk out of the room when you, you would have just done that. - He had a huge pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. He one time broke the piano. He jumped on top of it. He didn't, he was a, okay. (laughing) - Gigantic. - Your magic. - Gigantic. - It's me. My higher self came back and said, what the fuck is going on in here? Christine, get it together. And she says, Bruce was a fine man and you had some serious issues at home and that's not his fault. And you know what? It's okay, you quit trumpet class and now you know about the drifting cowboys and they can sing hey, good looking to you any time of day, day or night. - And without looking, what year? Did they start singing that before? - 1951. - Yeah, good job. - Is that right? - That's right. - See, Bruce. - Yeah, and now we appreciate them a lot more than he ever could have taught us. - That's exactly right. - What's your drinking? - Just kind of this and that. Like I, I have a drink but it's a little old. I should have drank yesterday. - I did, I did hear the sound of the water of the, of the, of the water down. - The slurping of me trying to get through like the layer that was once ice. Ugh. And also I gotta be honest. Now I'm getting some heartburn situations happening over here. So like, I don't really know this is my favorite drink shop. - It's interesting you leaned back as you had the heartburn and I saw almost what appear to be smoke rings on your shirt and I was already about to compliment the shirt. What's happening here? - It's a little tugboat. - Oh, it's a tugboat. - Yeah, but it's actually, it is high. - Well, I thought it was gonna be a hookah situation like the caterpillar, but now I'm seeing it's more tugboat. - Yeah. - High tide. - Oh, I'm into that. High tide, I'm into that tugboat. - When we were in New Hampshire last, I got the shirt. I don't understand the reference. Maybe the store was just called high tide, but the tide I really spoke to me. And I was like, I'm really clear with this. - Yeah, really good. - Really good. - I was like, and then I gotta be honest, I didn't even know, I didn't really look at the design until I got home and I was like, oh, it's a stoned boat. I was like, I should have loved this. - Correct, that's perfect. - Anyway, I know this part up here is really running going. - Even the rings. - Even the rings, like the little smoke rings. I'm like, oh, that's kind of intriguing. - Yeah, 'cause it's like inverted tie dye on the tie dye or something. - Yeah, but I'm sorry to hear that it's illustrating your acid reflux. - Yeah, today is just like an interesting day with my esophagus. So. - Yeah, you know, some days it just wants to act up. - She's, she's got a mind of her own. It's, you know, whatever. - Why do I drink this week? Ugh, Alson threw her back out. And like, this is the big one. This was the big one. - Shot up. And so, I've been there and it fucking blows. - Oh, no. - Remember, I did it in front of you. That's when I threw my back out the worst. That was when I literally sprained my spine. - I will literally never forget the image of you that like literally tabletop and like hobbling to your car away from your house. And I was like, I can't help you. Like, I went and opened the car door but I was like, you're literally like, - I don't even know if we were, like if we knew each other that well yet, I feel like it was really early on. - We were doing the podcast, but I had just moved. So we were like a year into the podcast. - Okay. - Because I remember feeling like embarrassed that I was like lying on your couch. - Well, no, I think I was having a party and so like you came over and like immediately injured yourself and laid down and we were like, we'll stay there and you were like, I'm actually in need of medical intervention. - I never felt pain like that in my life. And it was because I bent down to give a dog a treat. That was-- - Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's an episode where we-- - We did visit so far. - Endlessly. But I would love to go back and listen because I'm sure I described it in riveting drunk detail at the time. - Well, it was so out of control. And I was like, I've never, I hope to never feel back pain like this again. And Allison's currently going through a lot of that. - It debilitates you. I mean, obviously, like your whole being. - So I don't really get to make this the reason why I drink. It's more the reason why Allison would drink but the reason I drink is because I've been picking up a lot of extra slack. It's just been a lot of like up and down and grabbing things. And so I'm just a little extra sleepy because like I've been having to get up earlier like hang out of that appointment yesterday. so I had to work.
wake up at like 8 a.m. just to go bring him there. But then I thought, oh, I'll come back and relax a little bit. It was yesterday, every single hour I had a thing I had to be at or I had to be like, oh God, my name. I was just running around a lot. It's like I wasn't really doing, I wasn't, I don't know, it just felt like a lot to me based on what I had prepared for the day. And then I realized, oh, I'm gonna have to like really like double up today. And you're like running on empty, yeah. Yeah, I was just, yeah. So anyway, it's just like a silly little thing that I was, it was just a long day yesterday. And then I didn't get to go to sleep as early as I would have liked to. So I drink because I'm sleepy. That's I get that man. Last night, Leona woke up with some weird, we think she has like a, it was like one in the morning and blazing and I were like both like jolted away because she's like, how does this coughing like this whooping cough sound? But it's not like whooping cough because she's like four now. And it'll happen when she gets stressed. And then her vocal cords will like kind of close up. And so she'll start freaking out. And it'll like make it worse. But it's like this wheezing and she has trouble getting a breath. So it sounds kind of like asthma. Anyway, so that happened last night. And then I sat in the asthma or like, could she? I don't know. We're gonna take her to the doctor and see what it is. But it seems to be almost more of like any irritation when she coughs or gets dry, a dry throat. And which I don't know, I don't know much about asthma to be honest with you. But blazing says something with the vocal cords. But yeah, so I slept in a chair in her room last night, but the chair does go back really far. And it's super cozy. So I'm not complaining. And I had my, no, I mean, not an ad, but they are a sponsor. My Lola blanket that I keep in there for those purposes. So I slept actually quite well considering. But yeah, I'm sorry about Al's back. Fun fact, I did get my raky level two certification yesterday. So I'm a Lola. Thank you. I'm allowed to like fully practice now on on others. So if she ever wants some distance, healing, that would actually, I couldn't have forgotten a better perfect timing. I have all of a sudden that one's fallen apart. I'm like, I'm ready. Speaking of Lyona, did you hear that there's another Lyona in my life now? I saw the post and I went, why better here about this news? Because I've never seen a cuter baby in my whole life. Not even Lyona number one. I know. I mean, really, that's the cutest little baby I ever did see. Yes. So another reason why we drink this week is because R.J. is a daddy now. Muzzle top R.J. She also has a Lyona now. I can't believe it. I thought my eyes deceived me. Another Lyona in your life. They're calling her L.J. for R.J. R.J. is very cute. L.J. is very cute. I mean, you know, when I named Lyona, Lyona, I was like, how many fun nicknames Leo and then no, no, just Lyona. So I, it seems they, because I think your pitch was like, oh, Lyona, we're going to call her blank. He just immediately literally just started texting and being like L.J. L.J. L.J. or Leo. That's the thing you have to really decide. You got to decide for them. And I was like, I'm not going to decide for her. But and there's also a Lyo in her class. So it's like, you know, it's too confusing. Unfortunately for you, Lyo, which is an incredible name is like the new Kyle or like, I know, it's like the Matt or whatever. You know, like, I'm not like and it's like every class is going to have one. Oh, I know. It's a very common name now, especially for boys. Yeah. So it's, uh, so Lyona's, I maybe that is that is, did they have a connection to it? Did they, did they just like the name? Do we know? They didn't tell, they, they picked out the name really early into the pregnancy, but didn't tell anybody the name. Oh, it's so good. Not that I'm biased. I had a hunch it would start with an L because every damn baby I've ever met in the last five years starts to the hell. Um, everyone's gone, L baby. So I, I, but I, that was me making like a silly theory out of it. And then he's like, you're kidding me. I was like, we've already got one of ours. I could have been like, Oh, the name's Leona. Oh, no, I'm just thinking of a existing baby with that name. Like, Oh, no, that's actually it. That's great. I don't know any, well, there is actually one other Leona. I've met Leona's age. Um, so yeah, here they come. Leona's of the world. I mean, if Leo's going to be big, every variation of Leo's going to be big, true. Good point. Um, well, congratulations to them. I'm so happy to be a cute baby. Um, I've only seen a few pictures she does look very cute. What an angel darling. Um, yeah. So that's, that's about it. And they, it was, uh, by the way, thank you to that little baby for holding on for like 48 hours, or he would have shared the same birthday. And I, what was the birthday? Okay. So I already did the big three. Don't worry about it. Oh, great. Sorry. So I'm telling your kids big three. Um, well, obviously the sun is Gemini. Uh, the birthday was June 5th. So we got a third, fourth and fifth now. You shut up. Um, and I was telling, I have another friend. Leona Gemini. Hold on. I'm having like some feelings, some big feelings. Well, I have another friend who also had a baby in June. And I was like, it cannot be my birthday, because otherwise you're not going to come to my birthday party because your kid's got a birthday party. Now we got to share the birthday party. So then there's going to be not enough juice boxes for you and all the children. It's going to be a tragedy. That's what I'm saying. I'm glad. So now we get two birthday parties. That's what I wanted. I want two birthday parties. Now you can sell it for me. I can sell it for them. Uh, yeah. So this baby is also is a June baby. Exciting. This is so exciting. Is that an L baby too? That's the only one that isn't an L baby. Oh, um, okay. So little LJ for the masses. Yeah. Is Gemini's son Aquarius Moon Sagittarius rising? Oh, the baby is going to be a handful. I wrote, I wrote back to him and I said she's going to be so hysterical. She's going to be a fucking riot. She's going to be the funniest little kid I've ever met. She's going to be a riot, dude. Yeah. She's going to be a riot. And also like, I'm not to be completely biased, but Leona Gemini son. Same Aquarius Moon. Same. Really? The only difference is I'm also an Aquarius rising. But Sag is Gemini's opposite sign. Oh, oh, sorry. Now we have to decide for which LJ we're talking about. Sorry. I mean, Leona is like three. Uh, she is a Libra son, uh, Libra rising. And a, um, Leo Moon, which is, you know, how silly it is silly because it's fucking like in my face. And also, uh, the moon is like your mother, like kind of like a mother symbol and like hers being Leo. And I'm just like, you're, it's like, she needs me to like see her. And I'm like, girl friend, I see you, babe. Don't worry. I see you so hard. I don't know. I mean, I just don't know about the way Leo Moon, sorry, I just kind of, I didn't even really realize that, but to have a Leo moon, and I named her Leona without obviously knowing what her moon would be. Anyway, that's kind of cute. I was, I'm curious like, the son is the father sign, right? And the moon is the mother sign or is that how it works? Um, I don't know. I don't think, I think the son's more just like your like life force, like how you present to the world. Because I feel like it's very interesting. First of all, the fact that like, Libra's like, like balancing ground and all that. And the fact that her son and her moon are both so grounded. Hmm. And unless I'm wrong, but that sounds like she's going to be such a calm baby. I know. Well, did you say she's Libra, Libra Leo? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I wish, but she's a very, she's very intense. And I think the Libra that comes out of her is like my brother, like every like semantics are very important. Hmm. Everything needs to be pretty much even. She won't forget a single thing you've said. Because if you said it, you know, that's your word and your word is like, she's like, I'm not going to fucking forget a single thing. Like, I'm like easy breezy, whatever, you know, things change. She's like, you said that. And I'm going to make you stick to that. And I, you know, it's, it's a little like intense, but I think she's going to be, but she's a charmer, you know, she's a social boy. That is true. That's true. Anyway, I didn't know that was so excited for little Leona. I know. Leona Gemini. I mean, this is crazy town. This is like, oh, how do I be friend to baby without being weird? I know. Don't trust me. That's as someone who's all, all my friends are having babies. I'm like, I'm going to get real close with a bunch of babies to like really wild Leona, like to like loud Leona's in your life. I imagine. That's fine. That's fine. I love that for you. I can be loud. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're just matching your energy. Don't worry. That's exactly right. Okay. I know we've gone deep into the, the, the yapping these days, or at the beginning of this. So I'll jump right into my story. I know. It does feel like it's been days that we've been talking. I, I, I know we've only got so much time today, because you're running off to do some stuff. So I guess what I have to do, I have to lift weights with my strength trainer that I have now, because I'm happy. Are you a gym rat? What the fuck is going on? No, I just am like broken. And I'm like somebody helped me fix my body. Chi, Chi Gong. And now also this. And also, and also, and I do yoga in the morning, too. I'm, it's called sobriety. I think is what's happening. And also mental breakdown. It's giving like not as an insult, but like almond mom or something. It's like, oh, I've got my everyday schedule with a different thing. No judgment. I'm just like, this is so not what I'm used to. But that's the fun thing about it is it's not taxing, like physically taxing. Like it's just all very like chill. Like it's like, as you just see, it's like, oh, and I roll over like this. And then I put my arm here. And it's like, you know, and then at yoga, obviously, it's like very like centered. And then that strength training, she's teaching me like better breathing technique. It's like very like like better breathing and like pelvic floor issues. And like very centered to like postpartum bodies and stuff like that. So it's it's it's cool. But it's very, it kind of all just happen at once. And then rakey training, I don't know, it's weird, it just. kind of all happen at once. - Why? - Not intentionally. - I mean, you're like just like probably the most fit person I know these days. - Oh, trust me, I'm not. (laughing) Oh, you've seen the video of me doing Chigong with the Flying Pig, right? - You look great. - It's this. - You look great. - I mean, thank you, but it's not necessarily, you know, like I'm not making gains or whatever, you know, people say, I'm just kind of vibing. - Well. - Proud of you. - Thank you. (bell dings) - Oh, this old thing? - Oh, this old thing. (laughing) - Are you talking about your hair? (laughing) I was gonna say to all my thirsty little rats, I know sometimes I force you to take your meds, and it's really a reminder for me to take my meds. These days, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna add neutrophole onto that because this dome is shinin' lately. - My mother is the queen of reviewers of this. - And she's got like gorgeous locks. So if that woman is trusting neutrophole, I feel like we've all got to look up to her, you know. Thinning hair is much more common than I realized, and so it's really kind of exciting to see that other people are, you know, facing the same issues and handling them the same way, 'cause it really does work, and I'm feeling better than ever. So thank you, neutrophole. - Neutrophole is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand, and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. I didn't know I was a dermatologist, because it's also one that I purchased. - I said that too when I did with my brother, and he said, don't say you're a dermatologist, but it was too late. - I'm cosplaying dermatology today, everybody, and I'm demanding, I'm demanding that you follow me and all the other actual professional dermatologists. - Medical professionals, yeah, on board, because neutropholes hair growth supplements are peer-reviewed, NSF certified for sport, and clinically tested. - Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with neutrophole. For a limited time, neutropholes offering our listeners $10 of your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit neutrophole.com and enter promo code drink. - That's neutrophole.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O. - O-L.com promo code drink. - This is a hotel. - Ooh, the best part about hotel stories at this point is we can fly kind of right through them. We can just get to a good place. - And also I miss going to a hotel. I haven't traveled to a hotel in a long time, and I'm like, I kind of miss a hotel moment. Not, I don't think I ever thought I would say that, but in this hotel, I miss a hotel. I don't miss traveling to the hotel, but I miss a hotel. - No, I don't either. The moment I start thinking about it, I'm like, never run. - Well, this is the Holly Hotel in Holly, Michigan. - I just love that name, Holly. It's one of my favorite names. - It's a good one. The Holly Hotel was opened in 1891, and like I said, we can kind of fly through this history. Everyone can just repeat it with me, but it was built to be a railroad and for people passing through from the nearby- - I train my- - I train my- - I train my- (laughing) - No, there's what- - Oh, Chad and you get choo-choo. That's the fucking one that keep thinking about in the back of my mind. I don't know, it's like haunting me. Chad and you get choo-choo. - Is that- I wonder if that has anything I do with- - Oh, my ears ringing. I feel like there's some fucking- Is this a psychic message? What's the Chad and you get choo-choo? - Does it have anything to do with like, when you, like how you say Chad and you get some, it sounds like a train? - I mean, it's a town in Tennessee. - I know, but like, people say, Chad and you get Chad and you get Chad and you get, and it sounds like a train. - Oh, I did not know. I guess I had no idea. Bruce didn't teach me that. That's a cool fact. - Yeah, Bruce should have fucking- - Chad and you get choo-choo, Chad and you get choo-choo. - Chad and you get choo-choo. - Oh, that's the Glenn Miller Orchestra, which I have discussed was my Myspace artist for a while. The Glenn Miller Orchestra. - Everything about you is different than what anyone else would say. - That's because I'm an Aquarius rising and moon and nobody can take that away from me. - Well, eat your heart out, Bruce, and all the music actuators, because somewhere in this hotel, I'm sure some vaudeville music was playing. - I love it. - So it was a railroad in for people passing through from the nearby train line. It was like over 25, 30 trains coming in every day, so they needed somewhere to say, okay. And per usual, because businessmen and politicians would be passing through, this hotel needed to be very, very elegant. And yet, it was also the hub for all the locals. I'm literally just like, I promise I like my job that I'm over the storyline. (both laughing) It was known mainly for its restaurant. I guess that was one of the ways they really got people to keep coming in. It's like we got to try our food. But then by the 1940s, what song was playing in the 1940s? - Oh, this one. Chad, a new Gachuchu, 1940. - Perfect. - It was all the rage. So now everyone play that in their head. And the 1940s, cars and highways were becoming more common, so less people were taking the trains, so there was no longer a need to stay a night at a hotel in the middle as if it's a layover. And eventually, they just stopped really trying to be as much of a hotel, and more of focusing on their restaurant, and then to keep entertainment coming in, they opened up a comedy club in there. So it was now a restaurant and comedy club. - Okay, but I also held high tea on Sundays or on every episode. - Okay, so what I'm sensing here is that instead of like designing a program, they almost found the people who could offer their talents. So like a chef was like, I could make food, and that clearly his food was really good. And they were like, okay, we've got an excellent restaurant. And then someone was like, what was the other thing? Not for the high tea. Yeah, someone clearly had to be a comedian first to be like, well, we have some funny talent here. So I love that they're bringing in the talent and being like, how can we utilize this? - Or maybe someone just kept coming to the restaurant was so funny, they were like, just get up there and keep just giving them a mic. - Yeah. - Yeah. So they started really focusing more on that. I mean, this was closer to like, you know, this was many decades in where eventually, it's now just a restaurant at a comedy club. But that's probably basically eventually prohibition kicked in and while they couldn't serve alcohol, they started trying other things to keep the hotel float. And that's when they realized that entertainment was useful. And so then after prohibition, they kept bringing in entertainment with the restaurant and eventually it just became a comedy club. - Like we don't lose, I guess we'll hire a stand up comedian. (laughing) - I love that. - That's a terrible idea. But okay, I guess it worked. - So it was originally called the Hurst Hotel because it was built by a guy named John Hurst. It was later renamed the Alphan, nope, Allendorf. Which is not even better than what I was gonna say. Allendorf, then Hotel Norton and then it became the Holly Hotel. - Best one, best one. - For sure. And it also like Holly's the name of the fucking town. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, don't be ridiculous. - It's gonna work every time. - Norton, get it, get it grip. - Get literally, and okay. - Hey, here's a grip. Get it. - I'll wait. - Let me know when you go get it. - Okay. - One of the most notable pieces of history that happened in this hotel was in 1908, which was how many years and like 17 years into this hotel existing. - In 1908, do you know the name Carrie Nation? And I'll think, maybe? - Beautiful. - Okay, so next to this hotel, there was a street called Battle Alley. And it was called Battle Alley because there were so many bar fights happening in that street, but there was always like, oh, from the Civil War, no, they're just bar fights. Okay. - Truly just from bar fights. And so because it was only this rowdy, because of booze, this intrigued a group of pro-temperance people. - Of course it did. - Who, one of the people involved was Carrie Nation. Her, her middle initial is A, by the way. And so she later changed her name spelling from Carrie, C-A-R-R-R-I-E to C-A-R-R-R-Y. So we're named to be Carrie Nation. - Don't be ridiculous. I mean, it's already Carrie A Nation, which like, let it be the cool thing. Don't like force it into something that it's already is. - Like people are already making the joke for sure. So like you don't need to like, it's like you're saying, you're going, taking it one joke too far, you know. - Yeah, I totally agree. - Like we're already on board. Like we're already talking. - Yeah. - Spelled the same, it sounds the same. - So she, well she, she, hopefully it was not the comedian at Georgetown. 'Cause she's not very fucking funny. - Okay. - According to Wikipedia, she's also known as Hatchet Granny. - Oh, now we're talking. That's her drag name. - I was gonna say that's what she was saying after hours when I first heard. - Oh, her persona. Carrie Nation. - Carrie Nation. - She's actually a drunk and she's pretending like she's really not, she's not part of the temperance movements. - Exactly. - Yeah. - Don't tell 'em. - Don't tell 'em. - So in, so she's in this pro-temperance group. I think she actually created or founded the pro-temperance group. - She's projecting. - And her, basically what ends up happening is the way she got into all this is that her husband died of alcoholism, which led her to start like praying to God, being like, what should I do to get people to never have to deal with this again? And I guess Jesus told her to make everyone to carry a nation. Okay. (laughing) I mean, like it speaks, it writes itself. - So she, so Mr. Nation dies. And then she's like, well, now I'm gonna go on all these protests to make sure that we just stop condoning drinking. - Okay, I can understand the sentiment. I do. I wanna say that that's a tragic story. - We started in a good place or with good intentions. - Yeah. - She would go basically not, I wouldn't say door to door, but she would find the big bars in an area where wherever alcohol was served. And then she would just walk in and just start smashing all those bottles and all those glasses. - What? - She just, that was her fucking full-blown vandalism. - Like Jesus at the temple. Oh my God. Oh my God. So one of these places was Holly Hotel. And, but she was, this time she went with her, her.
group. Over time she kind of like created a posse, created a posse. There was a time where she created, they fucking, she just fucking attracted it. I bet yeah. There were times that she kept vandalizing and vandalizing that she eventually got like arrested for it and came back and then she like came out swing and even harder and was like, now we're going to go to every bar. And so, whoa, yeah, she's like nothing left to lose man. Yeah. And so when she got to Holly Hotel, this is a quote, but the group clubbed patrons with their umbrellas and Carrie broke whiskey bottles in the hotel bar with an axe, which is why she's hatchet granny. Oh, okay. Now I'm loving this. I mean, I'm not loving it. But I'm also kind of like intrigued, you know, I respect any woman, especially in the early 1900s who was able to protest at all. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you gotta, yeah, that's a feat in and of itself. You're right. And you know what? I mean, the definition of a protest is to disrupt society and to go to their drinking holes and say, fuck you and smash all their booze. Whoo, that's good. I will say it's not really going to, I don't think it's going to work. I don't necessarily think the people there are, but maybe, maybe that's not the point. Maybe the point is you're making a name for yourself. And that's, I don't know. The irony is that they probably thought she was hammered. I mean, maybe with, with God's, with the Holy Spirit or something, drunk with God's love. Yes, drunk on, drunk on Holy Spirit. So her efforts actually did later help prohibition pass. Yikes. So she was probably the most hated woman in the world to a few people. Wow. So she really did. Okay. I lied. I was like, Oh, she's not really going to do anything with that, but apparently she wasn't, I don't know if she was directly involved because I think by the time she passed away, prohibition hadn't even happened yet. And it came later. But I think she was at least the first steps into like people showing that they were not for this. And she clearly like made a following or high following. Yeah. Right. However, in the biggest FU way possible, a lot of bars, including Holly Hotel, they commemorate her protests there by now having like annual reenactments and like discounting their drinks at the bar. I think there's a cocktail named after her, which I'm sure there's plenty. I'm sure there's like, Oh my god, doesn't it feel like the ultimate slap in the face? So like, what's her name again? Carry on Asian. Carry on Asian. I mean, you really could get a little crazy with that if you wanted to make a little cocktail after her, which is kind of fucked up. I would hope it'd be a mocktail. At the very least, you could have a sign outside on the day, the anniversary and just say like, carry a drink around. Open container. Open carry. Yeah. Open carry. Oh, open carry holy shit. That's good. Don't tell the NRA about that because they're going to take 10, take that and run with it. That's an open carry. I'm sure. Open carry a nation. So anyway, basically, the hotel would have like annual reenactments of like crazy, like someone actually coming in and like pretending to like be carry nation. They would have discounts on their drinks that day, but they have like an annual event about the day that you can win. Similar bars, I, this is, I'm just, I looked her up very quickly because she's not supposed to be the main character of the story, but this story is pretty quick. And so I was just trying to find a fun fact for us to deep dive into. And this is the one. So I did a quick Wikipedia search on her. I did not like go very deep into it, but other bars that she like vandalized also do this now. So like, it's not just Holly Hotel, but there's a bar in Missouri that is called the broken hatchet brewery that I guess either she was once at or they name themselves after the story. This is the coolest thing I saw was at the inventor of the pet rock who made like millions. He used those millions. His pet rock money went to opening a bar called the carry nation saloon. No, yeah. And that one in the fuck that is the weirdest fact I've ever heard. Because he'd be like, what the hell the guy with the pet rock like, how did he make that much money? One, and two, what the hell do you do with that money? Any chance that I'm making a saloon with the name of someone who would have hated it? He had a fucking vision. Yes, he really had a plan. He said, first I got to get people to like these goddamn rocks. He does. But a good lie on this rock. Here's the thing. He doesn't got to do anything. It fucking, it's like he just channeled some divine fucking. He's like, here's a rock and everyone's like, I fucking love it. I mean, really his parents probably like, oh, my kid, like all he wants to do is grow up and open a bar, but where is he going to get the money? And he had a, he was sitting on a pile of rocks and he went, I've got an idea. I'm going to sell them fucking sell themselves, topics. Fun fact, there is a segment about carry nation on drum history. So, oh, that would be fun. It was, it's a quick little clip on, on YouTube. You can just go watch it. It's like five minutes. But it was very interesting. And anyway, all that to say, we're at a hotel that was once a railroad and blah, blah, carry nation. That was one of her stops on her big like, I love that or pro tour. And once she had passed away, prohibition took over and prohibition became obviously a really big thing. And the hotel needed a way to keep a float. So one of the first ways that they had entertainment at the hotel to keep people coming in was I only one source said this, but apparently they had a movie theater in there at some point. And they had an ice cream parlor in there at some point. Here's, here's my favorite thing is that I've read enough of these histories about hotels and during prohibition era at this point, a lot of them opened ice cream parlors and they were actually speak easy wink, wink, wink. So I'm kind of wondering did the Holly Hotel actually open an ice cream parlor or they just put a big parlor in front of their bar? Yeah, did they put a big freezer in there and said it's for ice cream. You know, we really did start and that's where we drink with booze and ice cream, not knowing that it was like actually such a key plot. I know for in prohibition era. And we really don't talk about that very often. But yeah, no, but that really we, like if this was also a prohibition era podcast, like that would have secretly actually been the perfect fucking. Oh my god, you're totally right. And we didn't even know it. Okay, so back to the hotel. The main tragedy that happened at this hotel was that it had suffered three separate fires. One of them in 1913. And it was enough that the hotel was so destroyed, it had to be renovated. And it was kind of a blessing in disguise because during its renovations, they were able to like add electricity and shit like that. But they also kind of changed some things design wise where it didn't look as what we would consider beautiful today. But then in 1978, literally on the 65th anniversary of the first fire, all the way down, this is a quote, exactly the same time to the hour. What? Same hour on the same day, 65 years apart. I think this one was faulty wiring. No electricity shouldn't have put the electricity in. But they it ended up causing over half a million dollar in damages. So they had to re redo it. It's starting to feel like the bomb's burst intro. So my god, yes, yes, another banner. Yeah. But another blessing in disguise, because fun fact, this second time around that they had to renovate after a fire, they used the original 1891 blueprints and got it back to looking exactly how it did. And see I love that. Maybe that's what needed to happen. It was like, hey, actually, let's just start over. The first time was like, we're going to burn it down so you put some electricity in there. Then we're going to burn it down again so you can get back to how it was looking. Yeah. Yeah. We actually kind of didn't want you to go that far. You went a little to modern with the fixtures. Exactly. So during this renovation, or if like two years after it ended up joining the National Register of Historic Places. And then the third fire, the third and final one was actually only four years ago. And the fire happened at a nearby building. It was like an arcade. I thought arcade like games, but I think it was like the name of like a mall, like a strip. Like a plaza or something. Yeah. And it started in one building and then kind of swept through the whole series of shops. And I guess I guess the town knows that this hotel is kind of a fire lot. And so 18 different fire departments showed up to like put water out on this thing. They tried to handle it. They were like not again. Yeah. They're like hundreds of fire fighters. In the aftermath of this fire, the owners ended up trying to rebuilds, but then the owner. So it did catch on fire again. Like so the actual hotel did. Oh, no. And like got pretty messed up. Jesus. When the and what see I read an interview somewhere that said like the owners only would like seven minutes away. And by the time they got there, it was like already just destroyed. That is so weird. So they have this fire. They're going to rebuild it. But then the people who owned the arcade that originally caught on fire, they ended up getting in some sort of like legal dispute with that guy because technically now that it's 2022, property lines are different than they were in 1891. So if they're trying to keep the hotel as original as possible, it now is like crossing into like new property lines that the other guy technically owns. And so he was like, I don't want you on my property line. You can't rebuild in this area. And they're like, but then it wouldn't be authentic to the original. Like I don't care. Yeah. I would have been like on their side. But like, can you just humor us? Like we're trying to like respect the industry. Have his problem? I mean, I don't know. It's not his fucking problem. Yeah. I don't I don't know how it got so tricky so quickly, but it did. And I guess it just became there was some rule. I didn't save this part. But in some statement that they put out, it was like as as long as we if we keep our
If we if we're honoring the original property lines then like he has a reason to like keep our crews from building the Something something happened where it just wasn't gonna happen so With enough back and forth on this they decided like fuck it like we're just we just have to close and so as of 2024 the hotel has closed. Oh, that's too bad. Okay. It's I don't know if it's sold sense, but it's been on sale at least as of 2024 for 900,000 And the bones are still good at it, but the it definitely needs like a facelift after the fire But that's all the history. So as for ghosts. Oh, I bet there's plenty. Yeah, so well I don't even know if anyone died in the fires. I didn't see anything. Oh, I guess fires alone don't but it sounds like somebody's trying to fucking burn this place down Maybe, maybe carry maybe from the beyond. She's like I'm not through with you with a name like Carrie I'm just saying Carrie a nation carry the universe. She basically I mean they must have known things were going on Paranormal in here a long time ago because back in the eighties they had investigators coming out. Oh In the eighties. Yeah, you don't hear that often. So in 1989 there was one guy who's pretty popular named Norman Gothie And you should do an episode on that guy. I feel like he'd be funny to talk about. He's got some but I feel like he's like There's something about this guy. He reminds me of a chip coffee, you know, yeah, I would actually know about this guy I'd stick to your original phrasing and say he's funny because I'm like what were you doing in the eighties being a paranormal Like you got to give me the deatsam on this guy something's happening But he went in and he was pretty like renown or I don't know about renown but people knew his name and he confirmed that this place was Quote loaded with spirits, so That was kind of all the hotel needed to be like all right. We're a haunted hotel We've had first leaf wines as a sponsor for so long like they've been just a part of our journey. Yeah, I mean run it back to like episode like 20 or something I think they were one of our very first ads we ever ever did I think so and they're back at it Asking us to make sure you guys know just how incredible they are from like brand new wine tasters to wine snobs for sleep is gonna Be very yummy for you. I tell you that Katie Who does a lot of like behind the scenes for the podcast and for parapods and she was saying that her brother's a wine snob and when she Like he would literally was a winery apprentice and gave him one of the bottles and he was raving about the wine and how good it was So I feel like that's probably the top like personal endorsement you could get a deliver premium wine straight to your door every month Oh, and a quiz. There's a quiz. There's the quiz and we that was the I think the first quiz you ever probably took for in those I took it 16 times so whether you're like, you know, just making pasta or like a charcoot reborder whatever it is or housewarming gift always good Mm-hmm, you know, whatever the reason is, you know, a first leaf is there for you and it will just get sent to your house It's incredible stop settling for wines that don't quite hit the mark head to try first leaf calm slash drink to sign up and you'll get 50% off your first box plus free shipping for an entire year. That's TRY F-I-R-S-T L-E-A-F dot com slash drink try first leaf dot com slash drink So the first goes that people know about pretty well is Mr. Hurst the guy who first originally opened the building when it was first hotel It was named as this like the Hurst family like publishing family H-I-R-S-T. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so uh people see his apparition a lot they see a man quote in a 19th century froc coat and top hat. Oh hot. I was gonna say it's been like a hundred years take it off. Come on. Go to JC Penny. Like it's okay to just wear some basketball shorts. You're dead. Seriously. Like and you know people leave stuff in the in the hotel and just grab something. Just anything that's such a good point. You're in a house full of clothing. Just take it. Correct. And they would probably love it if you took it because then they get a go for you. Oh, the lost and found just go through the last and found. They don't need that shit anymore. If you, okay, you're dead now. So like what's your official well, first of all, do you change your outfit regularly or you're just gonna have one if you're told you only get one outfit. Are you going for like style or are you going for comfort because you're there for eternity. How about both? Okay, I'm going for I want to look cute but never regret when I'm wearing forever. Which is very hard to find. But I think I would have to spend a lot of time trying to put that together. I think if you're asking, but I would have to know if I, if I sweat, because if I sweat, I'm gonna have a lot of outfit changes. You know, I would need to know about what's the is is the afterlife a perfect 7170 sure or perspiration ratio. I need to know all these things before I commit to any sort of clothing. I agree. And but if I'm stuck wearing one thing forever and like I am sensory aware of what I'm wearing at any point. Like I need to know that going into this trouble trouble. People would just be like, oh my god, we went to M Schultz's house and there was a homeless person haunting. It would just be me like in like the most raggedy comfortable things possible. Like I feel like like the Kardashians are probably going to die and be wearing like. They're like crazy skin tight like they aren't still lingerie that they sleep in or whatever. Yeah. And it's like, oh, it couldn't be me. I'm wearing my basketball shorts that have three holes in them. I'm wearing my sweatshirt that has four. Like I'm gonna be real. So basically our generation of ghosts is going to be so much scarier because we're all just going to be wearing like cloaky baggy like kind of like sorcerer style dark layers. Like the clothes that zombies wear were just looks run the fuck down. Yeah, where it's like, how many layers did you put on? And also, I feel like part of it is like I just got up to pee and I accidentally died on the way, you know. Yeah, I was watching I was binging my show and I really had to pee and then I died and that's how I got here. And also like usually that that whole vibe goes with sort of like a don't perceive me element and I feel like that also hand in hand with the ghost thing is going to be troubling for future investigators. I think that's also like make because if I know when I go I want to be found by investigators like I'm let this statement be known if at some point I'll be dead. At some point I would like to think one paranormal investigator is going to hear this. Yeah, contact me. I'm telling you right now I will I want to be found I will actively if if ghosts are real. I'm and you're in my house or you're somewhere where I'll be like you're not hiding I'm not hiding and I will act if you don't have to say like we would love to for you to come out and tell us your story. The fuck that I'm screaming my story if you can't hear it. It's because the machines are broken. I'm been following you around for days knowing you're on the way. I would really if you felt if you felt a tingle on the way it's because I was already there you're excuse me. But you want to I would argue that wearing my like ratty clothes would be better because like you're definitely not going to like confuse me with someone else in the crowd. Like like Ep Christina who also dies someday and looks exactly like that but yeah like at the haunted house like the haunted houses were like they think they like a child is lost in there but then they realized it was like a random like it was a dead picture. It's like well maybe if he was like barefoot and wearing like something that was clearly 20 years older than than his time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would have been a little more clear more obvious. Yeah, I get you I get you. Yeah, I think that's where I'd be. But then if if you die in the outfit that you just if you're a ghost in the outfit that you died in that I'm probably just only going to be in my underwear and that's even more embarrassing. Oh, well, it is but it isn't because also it's threatening. I don't know how that's all about how you look at it's all about confidence as long as I'm walking around bold without pants. Boldly. That's it's all about the attitude. Yeah, pants are like 80% of the time not on me. I really hope you get to choose the outfit because I've already to resign myself to being like half nude when I die because I don't I don't usually wear pants. Yeah, no. You know what I find interesting though and one of the reasons I don't believe that you you I think you get to choose what you wear is that so many people have probably died naked. You are not a single naked ghost have I heard of you know better than to like like approach you like that is so true and I feel like maybe part of that is that you they say you know you kind of revert back to an image of yourself at like the peak or like the most glowing version of you and I would presume most people don't maybe some which like good for you. I hope to aspire to be that way but I don't feel my most like golden and holy when I'm in the nude. You know maybe my golden era would be more like something cute I were on stage you know or something like maybe that maybe you just get reverted back to like oh you're youthful self but not necessarily like oops you're naked. If you got to forever I mean if we're going off of like art like what we would wear on stage when you felt your best I know you're coming and haunting us with that fucking black leather jacket I fucking know. And the black jeans with the holes in the knees Christine you look so killer as a ghost people will be like I don't know she was dead or alive but she was fucking slam it. But she really she's probably got a Leo moon because she is really her fucking faces and will not leave us alone holy shit. Well anyway this guy's got a fucking frock coat in a top hat I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable maybe that was his evening wear maybe we don't know. You know so embarrassing maybe that was his version of looking slam and that's what I mean maybe that's maybe he was like that is my choice and now I'm humiliated and I'm sorry I feel bad now well when I get there on the other side I'll make a stop and Michigan and go I didn't mean it I'm sorry. So anyway, he's also accompanied by the smell of cigar smoke and he has. quite a deep baritone voice that people hear laughing and I like to think it's because of the comedy club. I bet it's hilarious. I bet he is like I don't know what these kids are saying but they look like they're under a good time. Kiss me and chuckle. People also see a different man or maybe the same man unclear. A man and the halls vanishing in front of them while helping turn off lights and closing doors. Oh he's like let me help but get out of the way but don't look at me. He's like don't look at me but you might work. You would think like you'd vanish before you turn off the lights but he turns off the lights after like so you see a man fade away and then all of a sudden the lights got out. You're like oh yeah he's like oh don't yeah I'm the invisible janitor. Yeah I don't like that. People also see a different ghost. This one her name is Nora Kane. What a powerful name. Love that. Nora Kane I think died and now comes back with a boa on her neck or something like so for sure. No Kane so powerful. She was. She's a former hostess of the hotel and people see her whole apparition like walking around in her body but sometimes people only see her head floating. Right so. Is the boa the oh wait the boa is something you made up. Sorry I forgot. I forgot the boa is like you said I was like holy shit the boa. It's just gonna fall right on the ground. It's just her head that's disturbing. Yeah strange. Even staff have said like we were closing up and then we thought we saw a woman in the other room but when we looked it was like only her head. That's fucking weird. People often see Nora standing in the old main entrance which would make sense for her but it is now the bar area. People also say that she will photo bomb your pictures if you're there for that. I love that. Like a function she'll just her head. I don't know actually because I would make it more convenient. And if you can if you can only show your head can you not also sometimes just like only show like an ankle and like be really scandalous. Yeah like can you just like flash and only one part you pose up. I don't know what the possibilities are. She's also heard singing or if you're by a piano she people have heard her ask them to play piano for her. Apparently the piano will also play by itself sometimes. You're just probably fucking Bruce. The fucking guy always seek in a piano out. He's still trying to figure out that Chad and Hugo saw or something. He's still trying to teach it to me. So most commonly people know her by her lavender perfume. And like I said the other guy Mr. Hers people know him by his cigar smell. I think the smells are much more common than seeing them. But with Nora Kane people have also seen her specifically in the bathroom but it's always like after you've already gone to the bathroom and you go to the sink to wash your hands. And then she just like appears next to you and she's whispering something you can't hear. Well I hate that. And also it reminds me of the photo bombing where she just like appears in a reflection of you or like in behind you or oh. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. There's how I put it. I don't know if it's Nora Kane or if it's a different woman. But one of the staff members have said that although she seems really nice and friendly eventually she will quote change her demeanor and it's something a lot more like a monster. What could that mean? I just hate it. And then like no more information happens about that. It's just that's it. So you just get to guess and maybe go there and hope like she just gets like a little bitchy because everyone's like crowding in or is it like she literally turns demonic. You know what I mean? Like there's like a wide range of what that could mean. And there's something so eerie about anyone whispering and you can't hear what they're saying but they're looking at you. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. There's also the ghosts of a little girl who ranges widely between nine and 15. Oh, just can't tell. People are bad at guessing ages. Including me. I'm bad at guessing all all height weight age. I can't I can't guess any of it. If someone was like where they look like I would just describe me a clearly wrong person. Picture a person. And that's usually what they look like. Yeah. And also because I'm so gender inclusive. I'm like I couldn't even maybe a little mask maybe a little fan. They weren't wearing a pin with their pronouns. So it's not for me to say. Yeah. You're better off with just a solid shadow like Peter Pan shadow is where we start and that's where we end. I can see it. There's a little girl here between nine and 15. Although some have said it's two separate little girls which can make more sense to me. But she said to either be Nora's daughter or apparently there was a story that a kid got trampled by one of the horses one time. Oh no. I don't know how true that is. But that's at least a rumor and people think that that's where the spirit of the girl might be coming from. But she's heard running up and down the halls. She's heard giggling. She moves objects around the hotel. She showed up one time during a seance horrifying. And most of the time she haunts the kitchen. Actually one chef who was very funny in an interview who was like it's actually really fucking annoying during like rush time and like I'm busy and there's a kid giggling in my ear. Oh my gun sharp knives everywhere. Yes. Well speaking of sharp knives her favorite thing to do is play with the knives. I knew it. Favorite. Especially there's this one particular meat cleaver. Oh God. That like everyone knows it was like her favorite toy which like of course in all of the reenactments there's like a little girl at the end of a hall holding a meat cleaver. Yeah. That's her with her favorite toy more realistically. I think she's just like maybe playing kitchen or something because like the knives will just get moved all over the place that T possible get moved all over the place. Yeah. She's like like a ghost in a house like moving stuff around. Yeah. Um but like the the the one chef that was already kind of complaining about her was like I'll leave it right here at my station and then all of a sudden it's like over here and I know nobody has touched it. Like they know about the meat cleaver of all things. I mean this is a probably going to be your favorite of all all of the ghosts is her name's Leona. Wait really? And she's a little rat terrier. A dog named Leona. This is getting crazy. Kind of better than either human Leona. I would argue like now you've got the puppy element. Oh my God. You know. All right. Well you know I got to stand by my girl. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to cause a fight. So so seeds of discord. I'm just saying with the rat terrier I can really I don't think Leona would let me do this to her face. You know what I'm saying? I don't know that a rat terrier would let you do that to its face. I'm just going to put that out there right now. I think I have a better chance with the rat terrier. Let's put that way. Yeah. My Leona would be much more likely to bite. So that that part is true. And I do speak from experience if you're wondering. Has she gone through a biting phase yet? She is not actually knock on wood. She bit me one time. I bit my mom one time when I was little and I remember like one day my child was going to bite my shoulder and I'm going to and it happened and then never had to thank God knock on wood. But I think I also bit one time and then I was like I actually didn't really enjoy that. Yeah and my mom for sure fucking didn't. She had a terrible time and then she actually bit me back one time anyway. Anyway this is the third cutest Leona out there. The rat terrier. Wow thanks a lot. So nice. I'm just going to I'm just going to back away slowly. Nice. But people here pause running around which like if you're going to have a ghost in the hotel make it very sweet. It has to be a little clattering dog for sure. A little pitter-patter. The most soothing sound like footsteps. No. Can you imagine having a ghost dog where because my dog is I know Gio is one of them too. He's one of those dogs. I when he lies down it's almost a guarantee every time you get one of those like so over it groans where it's like yeah it's like give me a break. Yeah. Imagine having a ghost that just sounds over it in your room with you and you're like a man or a dog. Yeah is that a rat terrier or what? I think all I mean if it's a rat terrier probably sounds cuter than when my dog does it. You're right. But they hear pause running around. Apparently you'll see paw prints on dusty parts of the floor. Sweet. People will hear barking. They'll feel a dog brushing up against them or like a tag a tail wagging against them. And then other than that objects there's a quote objects will levitate inside across tables. People also hear faint old-fashioned music playing. They'll get their clothes tugged on. Apparations will show up at the top of the stairs looking back at you. Silverware will rearrange itself. Chairs will rearrange themselves. Doors will slam. People have gotten many EVPs here. Servers have ordered at tables. I've gotten orders from tables and when they look back no one's actually sitting there so they got a fake ass order. That's crazy. I love that. And I wonder if they're ordering food that's like not on the regular menu. We got to compare those orders. Is it the same order every time? Is it like yeah like crab will alter foot the fuck or is it like gelatin shrimp mold? Or is it a sprite? Yeah. I want to know. I wonder if one of them is like I've been hearing all the new rage about this doctor pepper. I got to try that. Or like this doctor pepper. And the waitresses like I'll see what we can do. But anyway so apparently they put orders in and then realize no one's sitting there. There have been other times where they take an order at like a table of three and then only two people order and they realize the third person. See that's so creepy. That's the fucking little creepy. And then they're like where's your friend? And it's like what the fuck? Yeah no. Literally horrifying. And imagine if it were us and we just found out someone was sitting at our table clear as day. No. Who is it? What do they look like? What kind of crab did they order? They'd be like well think of a boy girl with a range of height and age. Think of a shadow of a person. I could be a shadow and just go over there. The final thing I'm going to say is that on Reddit somebody wrote in that had investigated the place a few years ago and this is a quote from
and this is from a user called Jenny Lava. And they said, "Well, I'm best getting the area or the attic area, I was slapped so hard across the back of my head that it pushed me into my friend." - What the fuck? - That's not cool. - Fully like bitch slapped, it seems like like crap. - Katow, who would do that? Which one of these ghosts? - At that little girl with a meat cleaver, I bet. - Oh my God, she hit you with a meat cleaver and you just think you got slapped in the head. - Is that cute little puppy? - Maybe. - So then they go on to say, we heard growling coming from a far back corner where no one wanted to go. On the main dining floor, we looked through some sort of night vision, heat vision goggles and I saw someone dining at a small table, but when I took the goggles off and looked at the table, nobody was there. And I was the only person in the room. And once we got back to the basement, we decided to stand in a circle with our lights off to see if one last thing could happen. So we turned the flashlight back on a few moments later and a twine bracelet with a washer appeared in the middle of the circle. - What? - Like a random bracelet appeared. - But like a twine with a washer on it? - Yeah. - So like somebody's hand crafted in the like dark basement corner of all they could find on the dusty floor, like that's not cool. - Horrible. - Yeah, agreed. - Like I made you this. What the fucking hell? - Like a parting gift. - Ooh, it's a charm. - Like, no, that's trash, put that down. Don't touch that. - Well, the Hollywood tell if you want to learn more the "It Is Featured On" - You know, I would wear that home. - I know, I'm such a dumb bitch. I'm like, I would wear that right home and you'd be like, and I'd be like, why are we cursed? And you took the gift from the small child and put it on your wrist. - It's like literally on fire and you're like, I don't get it. - 100%. I'd be like, it was a gift from a small child. So I just say that to say, take everything I say with a grain of salt people. - If you want to learn more, you can watch about the Hollywood hotel on most terrifying places in America and its first season. There was also, you can watch the drunk history of Carrie A Nation and that was season three. And then in 2022, there was a, they call it a Hallmark movie. It's actually somehow worse. And it was not by Hallmark, but people call it a Hallmark movie because of the aesthetic it brings. And it was called Christmas at the Hollywood Hotel. And I can't tell if the movie was inspired by the Halli Hotel or and or some of the articles I read said that it was actually filmed at the Halli Hotel. So, oh, cool. - Could be both, could be neither. But the plot, I'll just read you the synopsis. - Yeah. - Kathy, a fiercely independent New York City-based food critic who was asked by her parents to return home to return home to Michigan for the holidays to help manage a massive Christmas dinner at the historic Halli Hotel. While navigating her career aspirations, she reconnects with her family and falls in love with a local police officer named Matthew. And I'm sure Matthew goes, please stay, I'll do anything. - Oh, please, you're from the big city. For Beach to Sandy, here are the first five reviews. - Yes. - So tedious, so boring, so bad, but like a train wreck, I couldn't stop watching. The worst acting I've ever seen in a movie, terrible. - Oh no, oh no, oh no. - And that's the Halli Hotel. - You hate to see that. - Well, yeah, we've read reviews of Lifetime movies and Hallmark, and boy, boy. You got it, they get rough, you know. - Wow, well done. I just, I love a haunted hotel, you know, that about me. I'm sad it's closed. I hope somebody can kind of get it cooking again. - Yeah, if someone's got just a cool casual million dollars and they're going to like house litigation with this like other business. - Let me know. - And want to like run an entire hotel operation, yeah. - That may or may not have been the set of a hallmark, not Hallmark, not Hallmark movie. - Yeah, with probably 1.5 out of five stars. - What have you seen? - TV, online. - Wow, good job. I'm going to pee. - Yeah. - Then let's do a yappy hour. - We'll do a quick yappy hour because we talked so much in the beginning. - Okay, we'll do a quick yappy hour. - Okay. - Yerby. (bell dings) - Do you look like Cupid's first aid, you know what I'm saying? Like a-- - Aw! - Not first aid, like an aid, like first hand aid. - Like the Red Cross. - Like an aid, like a person. - Doctors without borders. - I guess. - Okay, here what I'm losing. I'm doing something similar to all these beautiful humanitarian missions, which is that I am bringing you some really good news, which is that Zenny makes wonderfully affordable, stylish statement, peace glasses, or if you're like blazing, you just want rectangle ones fine. You can do that too. But I got the hearts, I got the ones that turned pink and also they block people, I think, from stealing my identity, it said. - Your identity still has not been stolen, thanks to Zenny. - It's still safe behind these beautiful heart-shaped glasses. - You know, whether it's prescription glasses, sun glasses, blue light lenses, apparently, identity protection, yep, yep. - You can get anything going on over there and they have over 150,000 five star reviews. So, beach and sandy actually can't, it's ironic that you have to talk about them on your show where you just get bad reviews. They look stunning if you ever want to know what I mean. By Cupid's Aid, hopefully, someone knows you just look like the right hand man to someone who's in charge of love. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zenny.com/podcast and use code podcast15 for 15% of your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it. - That's zenny.com/podcast, promo code podcast15. Okay, welcome back. We just went to a deep dive on my raky stuff. So if you're interested, you go join the, yeah, be hour. Okay, let me find the document because this one is doozy. Oh boy, it's a doozy. So this is one of those stories that I had always wanted to cover and never, it was always bookmarked. And for some reason, it never happened. And now here we are. It is a story of Gerard Schaeffer, a serial killer. So for those who've been complaining, I don't cover enough serial killers. Here you go, hope you're happy. 1972, of course, the era of serial killers. Yeah, peak era, peak era of serial killers. 1972, Susan Place was earning her high school diploma at an adult education center in Florida. She had moved in with her family to a suburb of Fort Lauderdale from her childhood home in Michigan and was struggling to fit in at her new high school. A complication during birth had caused something called hemiplegia, which is like a paralysis that affects one side of your body and she was diagnosed with epilepsy. And so being in high school, moving to a new high school is already tough. And then you've got differences that are more obvious and the epilepsy and she's feeling not quite right. She's not fitting in. Back in Michigan, she did have a good group of friends. She'd been a friendly and fun loving teenager. She sang, she played piano and guitar, but in this new town in Florida, she was really struggling to make friends. She got, of course, bullying from her classmates for her disabilities and then not only was school tough, but outside of school, things were not much better. She was fired from her job because she disclosed that she had epilepsy on her job application. And the grocery store's insurance company considered her a liability and so they fired her. - Okay. - Just to give you an idea of how tough things were. Her sister, Kristen, recalls her calling one day, crying and just asking, "Why do I have to be an epileptic?" Because it was just, she felt like that was making her life so much harder. - It's so sad. - And remember, this was pre-ADA, so like pre-Americans with Disabilities Act, which exists to protect folks with disabilities from discrimination. And back then, especially it was like, "Well, sorry, the insurance company doesn't want you around." So, bye. - So looking for any sort of solution to the isolation and discrimination that she at least faced at school, Susan decided to finish her diploma at the Adult Education Center and her parents were supportive of that choice, they understood. And it was there at the Adult Education Center that she met 16-year-old Georgia Jessup, who sometimes went by the nickname Crystal. Now, Georgia's parents were divorced, but they were co-parenting and remained relatively friendly. But Georgia was like a wanderer. She wanted to travel, she wanted adventure, she ran away a few times, but she always came back because she actually loved her parents, so it wasn't so much that she was running away from like a life she didn't like, she just loved to adventure. - Okay. - So the two of them actually had this in common, this wander list, especially after Susan had moved to Florida and felt so out of place, they both were like, "We want to get out of here," you know? And you introduced two teenagers with wanderlust and here you go. - There you go. - Yeah, and then every like, coming of age movie happens. - Totally, every plot, yep. So Georgia, she loved this sort of like lifestyle of running away and being kind of flighty, but she always came back. She actually even sometimes like called her parents on the way home to be like, "Oh, sorry, I ran away for a few days, but I'm heading home, didn't want to worry you." Like, she's just off.
And about, okay. - For her, you know what? So far, it's for her. - I know, I know. And so, I think her parents are probably having just hard to talk after hard to talk, but she's exploring, she's a free word, okay. So, they had this in common. They even wandered all the way to New York one time and remember they're in Florida, okay? So, yeah, they wandered. And they called their parents to say, "Don't worry, we're on our way home." And it was also at this same adult education center that the two of them, Georgia and Susan, met a man named Jerry Shepard. Jerry was 26, so he was far older than the girls who were teenagers. He told them he was from Colorado where he said he spent his days out in the wilderness as an experienced outdoorsman. And he said, "You know, I love to travel. Would you girls ever want to travel with me?" - And also like, why are you ruining our best friend time? Like, we're off galvancing. What do you mean? - Because you're gonna be a third. - Fucking unfortunately-- - We're not sure. - They were very collab here. - You know, unfortunately, I wish that were the case, but they were very drawn by his allure of having transportation, of having money, of having access to travel and adventure. And I think they just couldn't resist. He invited the girls to travel with them. And on one occasion, Georgia and Susan tried to run away together to Colorado, but the police caught them hitchhiking and brought them home to their parents. And not long after that, Georgia left home with Jerry in Jerry's car, and they stopped at Susan's house to pick her up. Now, Georgia was running away, but Susan was not. She was actually almost 18 at this point, and so she had told her parents that she was planning to travel to Colorado. So in some way, she had already told them that this was what she was going to be doing. It wasn't like a solid plan. Her family didn't know much, but she didn't want to just disappear. Like she told her parents, I'm gonna be in Colorado for a while at some point. So the last time she'd run away and come home, she promised never to run away again, because her mother had gotten so upset. So she was very adamant that her mom knew where she was this time. On September 27th, 1972, Susan's mother, Lucille, found Susan cleaning her bedroom, and in the room with her were Georgia, her best friend, and Jerry Shepard, the 26-year-old creep. - Okay. - Lucille was like, oh boy, Susan's packing. Are you going-- - Here she goes again. - She pulls the rod, yep, there she goes. And she says, yes, I am leaving town tonight. That's the plan. - Damn, that's a lot of snow turn around time for these parents. - Not at all, and the mom. - The mom is really like, please don't do that. Please don't do this, you know? I mean, it's just like very sudden, but her daughter cried and told her mom that she was tired of Fort Lauderdale. She didn't feel at home there. She wanted time with her friends. And her mom was just very worried, argued with her, but Susan was just not gonna be swayed. She was not gonna budge. And finally, you know, she just couldn't really do much except the situation. She later recalled that Jerry, for his part, seemed extremely smug and calm during the whole situation. And he actually inserted himself during their course, of course he did. And he said, don't worry, we're only planning to go to the beach to play guitar tonight. - What a fucking creepo. - And also, sounds like not at all what she's saying. - Sounds like they're going to Colorado to the right. - Colorado, exactly. She literally said, I'm going to Colorado and he's like, I don't even worry about it. Like, ugh. - Yeah, I feel like that mom immediately got creepy vibes from that fucking guy. - Oh, big time, big time, she knew. - And by the way, like, you're 100% right and she is not gonna go away yet. 'Cause she knew, she knew. Yeah. - By the way, if anyone hears that's me shifting in the chair, I just heard it through my ear headphones and I went, I'm sure that microphone picked up a sound that was questionable. - What did it sound like? I missed it. - I think it sounded like a little too. But it was. - Like a little too. Oh, sure. - No, no, well, that's too late. - I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Of course. - I took the risk by even saying it. - I'll be honest, I didn't hear it, so. - Okay, cool. - I'll just have Jack amplify that in post. - No, you're here, there's the sound, there's the sound. You ready? Did you hear that? No? Okay, whatever. I was, I'm trying to, it's a zipper. - Whatever, it doesn't matter. - Whatever, everybody. - Okay. - It's kind of you're the more you explain it. - I know, I'm like, I'm like trying to breathe, actually. - I'm like, my stupid couch, it probably sounds like I'm far to call it day long on this fucking couch. Okay, I've never even thought to say anything. Okay. So of course this asshole is completely smug. And you are 100% right that she got bad vibes because the next line in my notes is that she wrote down his fucking license plate. - Good. - Because she was something is up with this dude. But she knew she couldn't stop her daughter. Like it sucks, right? Like her daughter's about to be 18, legally she can leave. And what are you gonna do? I mean, write down the license plate. And so that's what she does. Which good for her, I'm so glad she did that. Anyway, they left, the three of them left. And Lucille of course felt this pit in her stomach. She wrote down Jerry's license plate and wouldn't you know as Susan did not come home that night and four days passed with no word, not a phone call, nothing. Lucille knew something was wrong because Susan had promised to be in contact if she did go to Colorado and that she would tell her mom where she was and that she was safe. Not only that, but Susan hadn't actually packed any clothes or other belongings. Like they were like, oh, we're just gonna go to the beach to play guitar tonight and then we'll do the big move. But she went to the beach to play guitar and then never came home and didn't bring any bags or suitcases or anything like that. - Do we think this guy was trying to immediately like shift the story? So that way, if slash when the kids went missing, the mom would go to a beach and it would save time. Or like, oh, almost like be. - Try to tell her a different location to a story. - Reemptively divert her to a different place so you had more time to hide bodies or whatever. - Could be, could be, I don't know. - We shall see, we shall see. So Susan had promised to be in contact, but she wasn't and not only did she not pack any of her clothes or belongings, she didn't pack her epilepsy medication and like, yeah, don't go without that. Lucille called some of Susan's few friends and connected with Georgia's mom who she actually didn't know. She didn't know Georgia's mom at this point. And that's when they realized that both girls were together and gone and had been not heard from. Lucille learned that Georgia had left a note for her parents because remember, she was running away like she was intentionally not telling her parents. And so she ran away on September 27th and left a note. Now certain something was wrong because neither girl had contacted home. Lucille shared the license plate information with Georgia's mother and both women reported their daughter's missing to the police. They provided the license plate number, but wouldn't you just know it? The police missed the detail that the number was registered in a different county. And so they were not able to pull up his car by the license plate and the investigation died. - That's tough, that's really fun. - Make you crazy. - I really thought at the end of like, she was gonna save the day and like, obviously she's done the right thing and. - So don't worry, she comes back, she comes back. Unfortunately, neither Susan nor Georgia would be seen again. Now, I want to time travel backwards a bit here three months earlier in July of 1972. Teenagers Nancy Ellen Trotter and Paula Sue Wells, who went by her middle name Sue, were hitchhiking in Florida. And they were both from very far from their small town homes. 18-year-old Nancy was from Texas. 17-year-old Sue came from Michigan. They had first met while they were both hitchhiking to Chicago and became fast friends. They decided to divert their plans. Southeast to go be in the sunshine. And after a day at Jensen Beach, they were hitchhiking to their temporary home in Stuart. When a deputy sheriff pulled over beside them and informed them that hitchhiking was illegal there. - Now, Nancy and Sue were, neither of them were aware of this supposed law. But he said, "Don't worry, you're not in trouble. I'll drive you home." They accepted the ride and on the way, he even offered them to give, he even offered to give them a ride back to the beach in the morning. How nice of him. - Okay, aha. - The sheriff's deputy was none other than 26-year-old Gerard Jerry Schaefer. He seemed very straight-laced, professional. Nancy and Sue were also very adventurous girls. And they had a sense of curiosity about where they were going. They thought, "Well, okay, we get a ride, but we also befriend a local who is trustworthy, because he's a police officer." - Yeah, so anything you've got, you would think that'd be helpful. - You totally, especially if you're not up to anything dangerous, you just want someone trusted so that you can look to. And of course, he knows that. So hitchhiking was, of course, as we know, much more commonplace in the '60s and '70s. These two girls were also very well-traveled and confident. They were very self-reliant and they relied on each other as well, like a safety in numbers feeling. So I think that kind of put them at a sense of ease. - And also-- - Yeah, I'm sorry, keep going, go ahead. - I was just 'cause an accepting a ride from a police officer would have seemed safe to most people at any time, exactly, whether or not you're a hitchhiker, whether or not you're like,
"Oh, here come the cops." Oh, at least he's just gonna give me a ride home. And he's worried about me, sort of like as someone who would protect me a father figure or like a duty. Like, he's here to protect you. Yeah. And so there's just something so sick about that. But yeah, so the idea that two girls get a ride home from an officer who's like, "Hey, you're not supposed to hitchhike here. I know it's common, you're not in trouble." Like, of course, they took a ride. I mean, these girls have hitchhiked all over the country with strangers. Like, this is gonna be the safest option. Of course. Ah, so felt like a no-brainer. And so they agreed to meet Gerard the next morning so he could show them around, take them to, you know, the local hotspots, Gerard Schaefer. Let me tell you a little bit about this motherfucker. He was born in Wisconsin in 19. What is with Wisconsin, though? Nothing to do. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's gotta be something in the water. A water? Yeah. Something in the water. And there was constant water, yeah. And the cheese curds over there. Yeah, all that beer, they're drinking. I don't know what's in that. Okay. So, from Wisconsin, he was born in 1946. Doris was a stay-at-home, his volume, Doris was a stay-at-home mother. And his dad, Gerard Senior, was a traveling salesman who's worked, kind of, moved them around the country throughout his childhood. They moved from Wisconsin to Tennessee, then to Atlanta. And in 1960, the Schaefer's relocated a final time to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and that's where Gerard would attend high school. He later, in life, described his childhood as unstable and unhappy. His father had alcoholism, and he said his father was very unaffected and detached. He did have one bond with his father, which, as cliche as this is, it was hunting and fishing. And so, that's kind of where he lived. Feels like Wisconsin. Feels like he and then bonding in Wisconsin. Yep. And that's where he proved himself, right? And his dad gave him a compliment at one point that he was even a beautiful shot. So that's about as far as the affection went. When Gerard Senior was away, Gerard, his son, went out on his own, and people appreciated that he had a natural confidence alone in the outdoors. But they didn't quite know what he was doing out there. A neighbor and friend named Gary did notice, however, that when Gerard was out enjoying nature, he seemed to enjoy killing animals for no reason. One of his favorite pastimes was just killing animals that he wouldn't eat, like, songbirds, land crab. Like, he just liked to kill-- But that's just like-- Ding, ding, ding, you know? I know. And I love that it's like, his friend said this, and I'm like, you've got an interesting friendship. He said he loved to casually murder living creatures. Right. It's like, oh, OK, charming. So Gerard Senior described his son as I said as a beautiful shot, and that's about as far as their affection went. Gary thought of Gerard as a collector who was very proud to own and use his guns. And so, like, already kind of starting off on a very violent, in a violent way. Yes. Like, you know, their only connection is hunting, and that's it. Yeah. As a 14-year-old in Florida, Gerard got along with other boys his age. They would fish, drink, date, brag about their supposed, like, dates, or whatever. He played high school sports, and his classmates had mixed opinions about him. So, like, some people were, like, he's fine, and most people were, like, he was a fucking creep. Yeah. Yeah. OK. That does make you feel better, at least, people in his childhood. Doesn't. Like, can confirm. Because the other guy-- I agree. The other guy who was, like, oh, yeah, he just killed a bunch of animals for fun. And it's like, I didn't see this coming again. Is anybody looking and seeing and saying something? You know, aren't we supposed to see and say something? Yes, exactly. So, OK. I'm glad. Yeah. Go ahead, some people noticed. Barbara did. And Barbara, later, described him as just that, a creep. She said, he was never the kind of person I wanted to know. I can't remember him being friend. Babs. She's on it. She's got a spilted teeth. She had the-- her perception was on. Oh, she's like, I've got the gift of discernment. Don't fuck around. I'll get the earbook out right now, and we can get through it. OK. He was never the kind of person I wanted to know. I can't remember him being friends with any of the guys. He was always on the outside looking in. As a matter of fact, the only thing I really remember is that I always had to tuck my skirt under my legs because he would practically stand on his head to look up a girl's skirt. Jesus Christ. So if he was like that with people he didn't even really know, imagine the people he felt comfortable with to try to see how far he could push it. Ding dong, exactly. And Barbara was not. Babs was not alone in this opinion. And I will say he went by John, so sometimes the quotes will say John, but that was his middle name. And so if it's quoted as John, that's why. He did seem well liked by other classmates, though, probably ones that just appreciated the surface level stuff of what he brought to the table. And maybe that's it. But most people remembered him as pretty unremarkable. He didn't have super close friendships or anything like that. After high school, he really struggled through college. He took tons of college credit hours. I mean, it says 28 credit hours. I'm like, I don't remember what that means, but I'm sure it's a lot. I think every class is three credits. So it's probably-- Oh God. --or eight credits, three credits. So it's probably eight or nine classes. Jesus. OK, so he's taking insane. And then he would drop several so that he could pass the rest. He was just constantly taking stuff on. He struggled with stress. Well, yeah, I wouldn't you know it. And at one point, he even wrote a suicide note that actually got him evaluated by a psychiatrist. And I guess evaluated and nothing more, because that's the end of that. In 1968, he married another a fellow student, Martha Fogg. But they divorced pretty quickly after that. And the following year, in September of 1969, Gerard began an internship as a social studies teacher, but was forced to withdraw from the program when parents started complaining about him. And he said he was being a creed. Pre-being with the fucking students. I mean, I am fascinated by-- not that I know any, but I am fascinated and would love to ask questions. I never would, but in a perfect world, I would love to ask questions on someone who's been married to someone like that, where it's like-- or even ask the serial killer himself, I'm like, how did you marry someone and knock at the urge with them? Or like, did you get the urge with them? And then you should get out on other people. Or like, how does it work? You should watch some of those like Netflix ones where they talk to murderers. I should. And I really should be. Because they really do explain those things, you know? What's like one of the main answers is a-- I mean, I think a lot of times it's like, oh, it's either a marriage of like convenience, or we're just having sex. So let's get married. Or I don't know. I don't think it's even really that deep a lot of times. Or it's to maintain a facade a lot of times, I think, a facade of a happy family, right? Or like, just not even a happy family. A normal-- any semblance of normalcy, you know? So the poor, the poor spouses of those people who it's like, I-- he could have hurt me at any fucking moment. Oh, yeah, to learn. I mean, the BTK one is one of the most disturbing, especially when you hear from the children who were like, you know, he was doing this to other children. Yeah, it-- yeah, yeah. So there-- and BTK has talked about all that, too. So yeah, you can definitely find the content you see again, don't worry. I certainly could, I know. And can I tell you something? You said in a perfect world. That means your perfect world already-- This is my perfect world, help me. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah. OK. And that's on manifesting. OK. So-- da da da da, he got married and divorced, probably because she was like, wait, this guy's a creep. I don't know, but I imagine it didn't help. And parents had complained. He didn't cooperate with his supervisors. And then guess what? The following year, he was accepted back into the teaching internship program with new supervisors. It's like a priest when they just move him around, you know? I mean, truly, it's just like, why are-- you have to assume he wants this kind of job on purpose. Right, exactly. Like, why else are you pushing for this? Yuck. So he began this thing again in 1970, March of 1970, with new supervisors in May, two months later, booted again for poor performance, for defensiveness to any criticism, among many general concerns that he didn't know anything about the subject he was teaching. But he really was purely there just to be near a bunch of vulnerable girls. I guess so. I guess. He's got one track mind, I guess, yeah. I guess so. With no teaching career ahead of him, he took a job as a security guard in 1971, where he met 19-year-old Teresa Dean, who was a secretary, and six years his junior, she fell for him. They got married later that year, Gerard lied about his work history in an application to train as a police officer. I am really extra super disturbed, even more than him being a teacher. I'm more disturbed about him being a police officer, because I was just thinking back to the story of when they were hiking in a spot where they shouldn't. Maybe they were totally allowed to, but they weren't going to tell them. Oh, no. He just made that up, yeah, exactly. What if they said, oh, no, we don't need a ride. We'll find our way back. Then he could have gotten aggressive and been like, no, you're not supposed to be here getting arrested. I'm arresting him. Yeah, or he could have-- - I mean,
Yeah. Yeah. I remember who else was a cop golden state killer. Yeah. You're on. I, uh, it's, it's just to know that he's only seeking out jobs where he has authority over somebody is scary. Because then if they say no, he could, then he has a plausible whatever to. Oh, and he does. Anyway, yeah, don't worry. We'll get there. Oh, okay. Oh, so you know, this serial killer handbook, I see. Okay. Yeah. I've heard enough about these, I think security guard police officer working with vulnerable populations. I mean, you know, fucking rights itself. Um, so she's 19. She falls for him. They get married. Uh, he lies about his work history and an application to train as a police officer and they never questioned it. And so he became a patrolman. And he was known to be a stickler for traffic violations. And he insisted that he was passionate about keeping the road safe. But in reality, Gerard wouldn't you know, pulled over women drivers far more often than men. And his department began receiving complaints that he was harassing the women he pulled over. Oh, good. Yeah. Some sources say Gerard asked women out during traffic stops. Others say that he used women's license plate numbers to look them up and then call them and ask them on dates. Okay. Yeah. Oh, my God. Insane, insane. Like not even like pretending to be discreet about this. Not even a layer of shame. No awareness of fucking no shame. Also, like, I don't have these bones in my body. But if you're trying to, like, lure someone in or like get them to feel like they can trust you, like, you have to at least be able to read the room on like how to not be such a fucking weirdo at like from the beginning, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It did. Right. It's like, it's like we're any of those women. I mean, maybe he thought he was charming them. And then he's like, wow, I was so taken by you that like, I called you. And I mean, in some people's minds, maybe that's romantic, right? Like, oh, that cute cop, like, was so smitten by me. You know, you can, you never know what someone feels like. Something like grandma would tell you about how romantic grandpa is. And it's like, grandpa, that's a little fucked up. Yeah. But like, you know, if who knows, like, maybe that works on someone. I don't know. But he got enough complaint sent in that they were like, yeah, you can't do that. So anyway, he did it anyway. And he used this position to harass women pretty consistently. He didn't stop once again, not listening to supervisors and was fired six months into the job. So according to fun fact, Christine, I'm throwing it up. I've been listening. I wasn't even like going to warn you. I'm just telling you now, fun, ready? According to CNBC, nearly half of hiring managers say a candidate's enthusiasm about the job is the most important factor when considering them for a role. That makes total sense. Because we had people applying who then said, I don't believe in ghosts. And we were like, what's the opposite of enthusiasm? Because it's that. Well, if you did tire for your business, how can you separate the candidates who are really excited about your opportunity from the ones that are just kind of met. Well, Zippercrooter is there for you. They are going to find the right people with the right enthusiasm who do believe in ghosts. Unless your like whole job is like ghost skepticism, then maybe you don't want them, but bring them over here. Yeah, unless you're seeking that particular role or whatever, you know, like they'll cater to you. But we had very specific needs we were looking for. And Eva, of course, ended up matching those. Zippercrooter has a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. And now you can try it for free is zippercuder.com/drink. Zippercrooter's new feature puts the most interested qualified candidates at the top of your list. So instead of number three, Eva would have probably been number one. But you know what? We live and we learn Zippercrooter. Okay, you can't be perfect every second. Use Zippercrooter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on Zippercrooter, get a quality candidate within the first day can confirm. And now you can try it for free at zippercrooter.com/drink. That's zippercrooter.com/drink. Meet your match on Zippercrooter. So he forged a letter of accolade. Okay. And got a new job as a deputy with the Martin County Sheriff Department. Cool. So cool. At roughly 9 30 in the morning on July 22nd, Gerard picked up Nancy and Sue in his deputy vehicle, not in uniform though. He told them that some days he was assigned to wear plain clothes and only do observations. That's all. He's just like patrolling. You know. Okay. I don't know. Is that true? I feel like of course not. No. Okay. That doesn't feel believable at all. I'm just here to show two young teenage girls around town. That's my job. No. I'm going to observe you. Yeah. Jaco. Okay. So he offered to show them this beautiful old Spanish fort on an island. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remember there they're here to see. So these are the two girls that he said he's going to show them the town. Right. And he's like, there's this really cool island. And there's this beautiful old Spanish fort because you know, it's Florida like the history on Hutchinson Island. And they're like, sure, yeah, let's go to the let's go to the this old fort. As they stood by the river Gerard's relaxed demeanor suddenly shifted. He became very serious. And he asked him if they knew anything about drugs in the area. And Sue and Nancy were like, uh, no, no, of course not. We're literally here with a police officer to look at tourists stops. Like you took us here. Yeah. No, we don't want to know why do you want to know? Like they were like, what the fuck? So apropos of nothing Gerard told him, I'm telling you. There's no way I can prepare you for this except to say apropos of nothing Gerard told them he could dig a hole and bury them in it. I mean, unfortunately, I smelled that from a mile away. But I mean, as soon as you're asking about, you know, anything, whatever their answer is, you now can say like, well, I don't believe you or whatever it is, you know, I well, I'm so happy to hear that because you're right because he told them there would be no crime without a body. But instead of being afraid, they were irritated. And they said I wish I wish I had the fucking audacity of a kid that age. I, I, I missed my 70s. I'm just annoyed. I just must be annoyed. I just can't with this guy. You know, like you just, I cut you off there, but you did say that it's just too hot. And like, they're just too hot. They're like, it's too hot. And we're too sweaty for this right now. And that alone, honestly, if something bad were to happen to me, I'd be like, could it happen on a day where it's not so fucking hot, please? It's, it's fucking Florida. And we're on an island. I am assuming mosquitoes are swarming this fucking me in the cold or something. Yeah. This fucking guy, who is a police officer, so they're not like that afraid, but they're also like, what is your fucking deal guy? Like, well, also if he's maybe because he wasn't in uniform, maybe he didn't have like a, a visible firearm on him. So maybe it's less threatening. And they're like, what the fuck is up with this loser? Like, you know, I think it's still taken if it's just the two of them, like the random man. And they've, I mean, they've seen and is the mosquito back. It is. He heard me talk about my god. It's haunting. But yeah, they, I mean, they had, they were like very trained in the art of keeping themselves safe, right? Like, keeping each other safe. And so they were not afraid. They were irritated and sweaty and hot. And they wanted to go to the beach. And we're like, what the fuck? Okay. So Gerard became agitated. And he said he was placing them both under arrest. Yep. I mean, immediately one second, you're asking. The second that you once there, I mean, I'm just saying obvious at this point. But you're right. I'm not. Right. Like Jesus Christ, of course. And so he gets out. He handcuffs them. And then he sits back in the cruiser. And he asks them if they know anything about white slavery. Oh, okay. It's escalating quite fast. It's getting out, out of, it's getting out of hand. I almost feel like when he first arrested them or handcuffed them, I feel like they were like giggling. Like, oh, this is so funny. They were probably like, what is, what is this guy? Isn't he like trying to like be friends with them? And he's like, oh, and like, he's clearly trying to play the like, you better listen to your elders. Like, I'm a cop. And you should listen to me. Right. I would have thought he was kidding. I first then been like, Oh, my fucking God. Like what? I would the immediate panic would have kicked him quickly. So they're a little bit like confused. Like you're saying, like they're like, what the fuck is going on? Are we like, is this a bit? Is this not a bit? Right. Unfortunately, it's not a bit. And he asks if they know about white slavery. And then he starts discussing methods of forcing the women into human trafficking. And they're still not afraid. They're just more confused and like fed up. And so they stopped talking to him. I love that they're like actually silent treatment time. They literally just stopped responding. And he got so they gray rocked him. And he got so fucking mad. Okay. So they're gray rock him. Gerard gets out of the cruiser. And he gets some ropes and sheets out from the trunk. He tears gags from the sheet. He ties them around their mouths. I mean, they're already not talking to you, but whatever. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Go off king. Okay. So he made Susan on the ground. So he could tie her legs together. Um, he then
handcuffed. He then made them aware that he was armed after handcuffing them. So at this point, they don't know what else to do. Nancy, at this point, realized she could run away, but she doesn't want to leave her friend. I can't. I'm not leaving Sue. Yeah. Yeah. So she stays. Gerard told Sue that if she tried to escape, he would kill Nancy and then find her and kill her too. And she's like, I ain't going nowhere. So he leaves Sue tied up on the ground, forces Nancy to follow him to a tree in the river. The river was the body of water that cut Hutchinson Island from the mainland. And at low tide, there would be these like enormous tree root systems that came up visible above the water. And so Gerard made Nancy climb onto the roots, then tied her legs and tied a noose around her neck. Oh my God. Oh my God. I know. So that if she even slipped on the on the slick branches of the slick root system, don't think about running away, even if he accidentally run away. It'll hang. Oh my God. Oh my God. Horrifying. So he looped that over a tree branch, tied it to another branch behind her. And if she slipped off the wet roots, she'd be hanged. So she is trapped in this position. Gerard, Gerard pinched her butt, threatened to rape her, and then left her there. Oh God. Nancy managed, now listen to this, managed to maneuver her way out of the gag first. Then twist her head to chew on the knot of the noose. She's so powerful. It could not come undone in her mouth. But when she dared to lean back slightly, even with like this fucking terrifying situation, she felt the point where the rope was tied to another branch. And because she had been chewing on that part, the other part of the rope, it had been loosened. So she with the handcuffed ties was able to reach that knot and untie it. She's with her literally. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Like literally, MacGyver, right? MacGalver. MacGalver. I think I've tried that joke before and it did not land. Okay. Lans here. That's great. Thank you. Thank you. She, I love all the laughter I heard. Okay. She, that's how I know it was a good joke. I was doing more clever. I was just like, that's good. Yeah. It's like one place guy. It's like one place goes, that's funny. And I'm like, is it? I did truly. I was on your side. Thank you. I do appreciate it. I do. I can tell. I do appreciate it. So she's able to like pull her hands out and unbound her legs. But of course she still has handcuffs on like police handcuffs. So she can't get her handcuffs off. So she sneaks away first to hide the fucking ropes because she's like, if Gerard comes back, at least he won't know where the ropes are and can't tie me back up. And I'm like, this girl's fucking smart. Like, she's on it. She's like, at least he can't hang me again, which like maybe that's also a survival instinct. Like, oh, let me put this as far away from me as possible. Yeah. But either way, like she gets rid of that. She saw his car was still parked there. So she knows he's like in the fucking vicinity. And probably watching her. That's the scary part. Either watching her or she doesn't know what he's doing with Sue, her best friend either. So it's like, fucking terrifying. Yeah, he could come back any second. He could be watching her right now. She knew she couldn't fight him with her hands in handcuffs. So she traveled through the river and she followed it because she knew it would lead to the highway. At one point, she's fucking incredible. I know. And at one point she heard someone calling her name. And she almost responded. But then was like, Oh, Gerard might be forcing Sue to call for me. Oh my God. She's so smart. To lure me back. And I need to get her to safety before I mean, what the fuck? Talk about like in some ways, like if I were Sue right now, I'd be like, where the fuck are you? I'd be like, we'll get over here. But at the same time, I'd be like, she's on her way to get help. She's going. No, I'd be like, if you're screaming the name, you're like, don't fucking don't listen to me. I'm putting a thought to do that. I would have been. I would have said, I would be like, I'm right here. Oh my God. I know terrible. So she did not respond. She saw cars like eventually. She kept going. The river got really deep. And she had to swim without using her hands and like, she didn't get swept into anything, you know. But she kicked. She floated sideways. And she really had to relax her body to stay afloat, which was also like, obviously in the most stressful time of her life to relax your body is like, what the fuck? So this section of the river was wide. And she could actually see cars ahead, but they were so far away like they were just like small on the horizon. So there's no way they could see her. But she finally made it to shore. And she remained in knee deep water because she was too exhausted to like climb out of the water at this point. And she just started screaming at passing cars. And her feet were bloody from all the shells. She'd been stung twice by jellyfish. And later told a newspaper, I got stung by two jellyfish while swimming. That's not very much fun. Girl. Once is enough with my hands untied without someone killing my friend in Barbados on an all expenses paid vacation. Yeah. Right. Like what a sandals vacation pack totally, totally. I that's I can't. It's just absurd. I mean, I guess when you have so much adrenaline, you can't even fucking feel. I know. And I think that's what happens in these scenarios. It's like you're just instincts and you're you're something turns on and you're like in go mode. Survival mode. It's amazing. So Sheriff Robert Lewis Crowder, Gerard's boss pulls over in front of her. And the reason he's there is because he's out looking for Nancy and Sue. Why is he out looking for Nancy and Sue because Gerard had called in to the police station and admitted his own crime? Yeah. Was it because maybe that he realized that she was missing and was like, oh, fuck, I better tell all myself. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Wow. He was like, well, maybe I'll I'll have a better shot if I own up to it versus getting told on. You're going to be mad. So he calls crazy. I've done something foolish. You're going to be mad at me. He told a story to Crowder that what happened is he wanted to teach them the dangers of hitchhiking. Oh, shut up. So he was just he was just like trying to scare them straight, you know, like he was trying to protect them. It was a silly joke, but they from the two serious years of the world. Like these are vulnerable women. And I don't want them to just be out there. Let's pretend he's telling the truth. Let's pretend for a second. He's still committed crimes by hanging her in a fucking tree and holding them at gunpoint and threatening rape. Like he said, she said, he said, she said, run away team. I feel like, uh, here I'm opening my mouth right now to get a sample of all the rope fibers. I had a chew alpha myself. Good fucking point. Well, don't even worry about it because of course they find her on the side of the road. And like it's obvious she's fucking been through it. Okay. Like nobody's right. Nobody's like, Oh, he did, he did something great. Um, they found them. They found, first of all a truck driver had found Sue first. And she was handcuffed alone and screaming for help as he drove by. And the truck driver and Sue called the Sheriff Department requested to speak to the sheriff directly. None of the deputies. And when Crowder found Nancy, he told her Sue was alive. And as he uncuffed her and wrapped her in a blanket, she asked what's going on. He said, guess we had one bad apple in the bunch. I think everyone just made that sound with me. Um, okay. There's a communal mantra. I like, I can't even get into the spiel about bad apples right now. But please, please. And here's where it just gets worse. Sheriff Crowder fired Gerard. And of course he did because he's a good guy and he did the right thing. He fired the man. And he requested he receive a psychiatric evaluation. But that never happened. And he just moved right on. What a fucking asshole. Here's what Crowder later said. I don't think anyone recognized the potential seriousness of what he had done. Huh? I think everyone but you babe. What the fuck are you talking about? Piece of shit. In the end, Gerard accepted a deal and was charged with one count of assault and was sentenced to six months in prison. This is not the story. No. Okay. Okay. I was like, you're kidding. Okay. No, it just keeps going. The next spring in April 1973, men collecting aluminum cans in a floor to swamp were horrified to discover human remains in what appeared to be a shallow grave. Now this site was less than 10 miles from the riverside where Gerard had abducted Nancy and Sue the summer before. Um, at least one of these victims had been found bound and tied to a tree. So the Florida heat and wildlife had impacted the condition of the remains but investigators were able to use clothing and dental records to identify the remains as belonging belonging to 17 year old Susan place and 16 year old Georgia Jessup. The two girls that we started the story off with who met and went to the beach with Colorado, but also playing guitar on the beach. And here they are found the following year. There remains one like I said had been tied to the tree. So essentially we know that's what he was planning to do was to kill obviously the other other two. And when one got away, you know Sue escaped as well. I'm honestly surprised for life. I'm surprised that he even tried to do that with two girls versus one. Like just like, like wonder, I don't know, I would think that like if this is your quote first time doing this like would you wasn't?
Okay, go ahead. Oh, don't worry, it wasn't. - Remember, he was killing animals at 10 or whatever, yeah. Okay, so, yep, one bad apple in the bunch. So, now these remains are found and Susan's parents, Lucille and Ira Place had already suspected that this fucking creep Jerry who was like in her, their daughter's bedroom and was like, it's fine, misses whatever. We're just going to the beach. Like, she already suspected this fucking guy. Remember, she wrote down his license plate. So, they had managed to solve the license plate mistake that the police said was a mystery, right? 'Cause I couldn't figure out how the fuck to find a license plate in a different county. So, they figured it out and we're like, oh, it's just from a different county and Jerry Shepard is actually a guy named Gerard Schaeffer and he was apparently serving a sentence for abducting two women. So, they've already found this all out before the remains were even found. And he had committed that several months before he'd appeared in their daughter's bedroom and said, hey, we're just going to be out for a while and then they never saw their daughter again. So, they already knew like this fucking guy killed our daughter most likely. And, you know, at first the timeline didn't make sense because it said he was serving a sentence. But what had happened is that he had actually his beautiful wife Teresa who just was in love with this guy for some fucking reason vouched for him. So, there's another answer for you. And said, you know, gave an alibi, right? And made bail for him and he was released for several months. So, that was just not in the record. So, they didn't realize and on that release is when he killed their daughter. - Okay. - So, as the pieces began to fall into place, investigators followed a warrant to search Gerard's home. What a great idea. Lieutenant Chuck Hemp of the Oakland Park Police Department later said that the house was fairly large and for a while they didn't find much of interest until they flipped through one of his pornography magazines and a two-page document fell out of the pages that described kidnapping, torturing, and murdering women. It was just one piece of many writings Gerard had done on the subject of harming women. He wrote that there would be plenty of opportunities to choose women to abduct from among the many seasonal visitors to Florida. So, he just loved like the tourist aspect of being able to take this easy. It's like people that are already away and out of town are people and if they go missing-- - Especially in the 70s, you're not like on fine mind, you know? I mean, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, he wrote about different methods to humiliate rape, torture, and mutilate women and to answer your other question, he wrote that murdering women in pairs was ideal for him because, according to him, women let their guards down when they traveled together. - Oh, okay, I don't know if that's really true. - I mean, I think it kind of was it. - Yeah, I think so. - I mean, I think it depends, but I think like safety and numbers. I mean, if your friend is with you and you're both like really self-reliant and tough and you're like, we've seen a creep before, you know? And before you know it, this guy's like completely disarmed you and been like, and suddenly you're, yeah. I think, I think he unfortunately knew what he was doing. Yeah, so that's all the stuff they've found in his writings, but of course, he later maintained that this was all fiction and they couldn't convict him just based on these documents. But in a closet, detectives discovered something they could convict him with. It was an antique trunk filled with trophies, okay? Trophies from his victims. There were personal items such as planners and jewelry, there were teeth with gold fillings. God. He was eventually charged with first degree murder for the killings of Susan Place and Georgia Jessup. He pleaded not guilty and was extremely smug throughout the entire trial thinking he was literally not gonna be found guilty. But also like he had been treated so leniently with everything else he fucking did. It's not a separate, like at this point, he probably would just get off, you know? - Right, I mean, it wouldn't be hard for him to believe that he could get off. - Right, exactly, like in his own pattern of behavior, he's gotten away with it many, many times. - Have you ever watched those videos online of like the, like in court room, it's been like someone who's horrible and like it's clear, like needs to be put away is acting really smug towards the judge. - Oh, I can't stand that. - And then the judge like really lays it out and like this errates them. - Yeah, it's like they took a plea deal and then the judge is like, I'm actually rescinding the plea, I'm deciding that there's no plea deal. You're going to jail for the rest of your fucking life. - Yeah, a piece of shit, yeah. I love those videos where like you just see someone's smug get fucking humbled. - I know, just like get that, get that fucking grin off your face. - Yeah. - Yeah, so they discover this stuff. He says, oh, I'm not guilty, super smug. In one surviving footage of an interview, he smiled as he said, I didn't do it. I don't think the state has proved. I did it in any way. And the testimony of my witnesses has counteracted the testimony of the other witnesses. So he really just didn't think it was going to happen. - What an asshole. - What an asshole. He was, thank God, convicted for the murders of Susan in Georgia, but the death penalty shockingly was not legal in Florida at the time. So the prosecution sought a two sentences of life in prison and they did win this request, but he was stabbed to death in prison by another incarcerated man on December 3rd of 1995. So how long was he in before he died? - Great question. - 'Cause I'm always so over it. Every time I watch the Lawn Order episodes, I know that's very different than this, but that's my only experience with it, right? - Right. - Is when someone who deserves good jail for the rest of their life ends up, quote, getting away with it by dying the day of going into jail. - I know, it always happens. It's so anticlimactic. - It has a heart attack immediately. And it's like, oh, come on. Yeah, I don't know, maybe that's awful of me that I want to talk about. - I don't know. I think someone's waiting, someone's waiting for him. - How long, was, do we know how long he was there? - I don't know. I believe probably 15, 20 years. - Okay. - Something around there? - Immediately, at least. - No, I believe he was there for like over a decade. I don't have the exact date, but he was in there for a while. Now, I do wanna add, there's like a last unfortunate like part to this. - Oh, good. - Yeah, it gets worse. I know, it's just like, of course it gets worse. Okay, so he is convicted, sentenced to two sentences of life in prison. Jard, a stab to death in 1995. He was charged for those two murders, but, and here's the kind of like, add on to this. He is suspected to have killed between 11 and 28 women. - Oh, wow. - In 1966, and I'm just gonna mention a few here, because in 1966, 20-year-old Pamela Ann Nader and 21-year-old, again, two, Nancy Elaine Leichner, were at a picnic with friends in the Alexander Springs Recreation area of the Ocala National Forest in Altoona, Florida. And they left the picnic spot to walk a nature trail and never came back. - Wow. - They were not believed to have drowned because they were such good swimmers. And they were literally attending the picnic as members of a swimming club. - Like hello. - So, like, hello. And they had already decided not to swim that day because it was too cold. So, they were like, they did not drown. That's not what happened. - Right. - In 2007, Lake County Sheriff's Office cold case review board announced that Gerard Schaefer had murdered both women. So, this was, you know-- - Okay, so at least it's from the waiters. - Yeah, 22 years after his death, but yeah, they confirmed that he did kill them. Pamela and, you know, it's so dark too, is that Pamela and Nancy's at the time, boyfriends were once suspected in the case. So, you know, like, you think of just the decades of this. - Oh, gosh. - But, yeah, I'm not describing that. Or even just like the grief and torment that the family and friends went through without answers. - Absolutely. That was the biggest thing. And they all expressed, like, finally, getting closure in 2007, you know? - Yeah. - In 1969, 24-year-old Lee Forell, Hainline Bonnities disappeared. Lee and Gerard had known each other for years, which is also scary that he knew someone for years before even acting on the murderous, like, tendencies, right? - Sure. - Her brother had actually considered Gerard a good friend when they were teenagers. So, this was like definitely someone who felt safe with him. Lee's remains were discovered at a construction site in 1978 and a bracelet that belonged to Lee was identified amongst the items in the trunk and the antique trunk that was in his house. - Wow. - Ugh. - 22-year-old Carmen Marie Hallack disappeared that same year and a Shamrock pin that belonged to her and two of her teeth were discovered in the trunk. It's just so sick. 22-year-old Belinda Hutchins disappeared in '72. Belinda and Gerard had briefly dated before her disappearance and a dress book belonging to Belinda was found in his house. In 2022, remains were identified as belonging to 15-year-old Susan Poole, who had disappeared in 1972. And her skeletal remains were discovered in '74, but it took nearly half a century for DNA testing to confirm who this was and give Susan her name back. She was discovered tied to a tree matching Gerard's pattern, so it made sense that she was one of his victims. And Susan's mother, who was in her 90s, was still alive to receive the closure when they found out. - At least that. - Several of Gerard's suspected victims were children even younger than Susan Poole.
pool, for example, an eight year old girl named Wendy Brown Stevenson and her nine year old friend Peggy met each other at Pompano Beach. They spent the day playing together becoming best like fast friends. You know, when you meet someone as a kid and you're just like clicked instantly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they became fast friends that day at the beach at 1 p.m. they walked to the parking lot for ice cream. An employee would later report that a man purchased cigarettes for himself and purchased ice cream for the two little girls. Wendy and Peggy were never seen again. It was suspected that they drowned, but that was ruled out eventually. And early on, Gerard denied that he killed the girls, but he confessed to the murders eventually in a letter that he wrote in 1989. Wow. Okay. Peggy and Wendy remain missing. More disappearances and murders of women and girls have been linked to Gerard Chaffer and this is for sure not an exhaustive list. It's just some like very clear one connections we have. Okay. Nancy, Ellen Trotter and policy wells are the only known survivors that Gerard Chaffer targeted. Gerard maintained that he abducted the women to teach them a lesson because he was concerned for their safety. And I want everyone to just take that sentence, hold that. And when somebody says something like that to you, really feel into, is that true? Or does this not feel safe? Because you can really disarm someone with that kind of bullshit. I'm just concerned for your safety. Yeah, I've heard that before. Jesus Christ. So it is assumed that Gerard, of course, plan to kill both women that day, but failed. And, you know, we don't prove for that. But I have enough proof to decide that for myself. I've decided for myself also. Correct. Thank you. Despite performing acts of extreme ingenuity, bravery and physical strength, Nancy just said she felt lucky about escaping the whole thing. And I imagine in that state, you're probably dissociated in like just surviving. But, you know, you deserve, she deserves all the props and I'm just I support. Yeah, blown around very proud of her. I mean, that's that's that's huge to survive something like that. So that's that. And now I have to go lift weights. At least it got like you're all like you've got a reason to be angry. And, you know, I know she's going to be like, what's this weird vibe you've brought to the table today? But let me tell you, yeah, let me tell you. Oi, well, at least someone survived. I don't fucking know. I don't know how to end that. That's great. That's great. So great. Sorry for her. Yeah, I'm happy that they survived. And I'm sorry about all the horrible stuff that happened. And thanks for listening to our podcast. Sorry if we bum you out. We love you a lot, though, we do. And hopefully everyone's everyone's having a good whenever this comes out. Hope you're having a good one of those a good week of a month. And we'll see you next time to horrify you with even worse. So a good way to end this. I think it's perfect. Okay. And that's why we drink.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The host shares excitement about a cobblestone fireplace purchased from Wayfair, which has become the central focus of a new room being designed with Alison and her parents.
The host highlights Wayfair as a resource for transforming home spaces with personalized, stylish furniture, and encourages signing up for Wayfair Rewards for 5% back.
The ASPCA pet health insurance program is promoted as a helpful solution for unexpected pet emergencies, especially for dogs with quirky behaviors like stepping on bees.
The host discusses their personal journey with OCD, emphasizing the value of specialized therapy (ERP) and the supportive community offered by noCD, which provides accessible, non-judgmental treatment.
A humorous anecdote about a music appreciation class in eighth grade is shared, involving a personal conflict with a teacher over disliking John Mayer and a resulting D grade, sparking reflections on education, bias, and personal values.
The conversation touches on family dynamics, including a mother’s overreaction to the host’s grade, and the emotional weight of personal experiences in school.
The episode includes a nostalgic reflection on a trip to a historic hotel in Michigan, originally a railroad stop, now known for its connection to Carrie Nation’s temperance protests and a legacy of fires.
The story concludes with a tribute to the hotel’s history, including its haunted reputation, fires, and closure, while promoting First Leaf wine as a gift for home life and wellness.
Summary:
The host shares a mix of personal and humorous experiences, centered around home decor, mental health, and family life. A custom cobblestone fireplace from Wayfair is highlighted as a key design element in a new room, symbolizing creativity and personal style, with a call to explore Wayfair for home transformations. The episode also features a heartfelt discussion on overcoming OCD through specialized therapy and community support, emphasizing the importance of accessible and stigma-free mental health resources.
A vivid memory from eighth-grade music appreciation class is recounted, where the host’s dislike of John Mayer led to a D grade and deeper reflections on education, bias, and personal identity. The narrative then shifts to a nostalgic exploration of the Holly Hotel in Michigan, a historic property tied to Carrie Nation’s temperance protests, multiple fires, and a legacy of resilience through renovations. The hotel’s story includes its evolution into a comedy club and restaurant, and its eventual closure due to property disputes after a fire.
The segment ends with a promotional mention of First Leaf wine, presented as a thoughtful, personalized gift for everyday life, with a special offer for new subscribers. The episode blends storytelling, personal growth, and practical advice across themes of home, health, and community.
FAQs
The cobblestone fireplace is described as a witchy, spooky centerpiece that has become the focal point of a room being designed by Alison and her parents. It was purchased from Wayfair and is expected to enhance the spookiness of the space.
The transcription suggests visiting Wayfair to find home decor items—like a fireplace, couch, or table—that can serve as a focal point and transform a space, with the recommendation to join Wayfair Rewards for 5% back on purchases.
The ASPCA pet health insurance program offers customizable plans for accidents and illnesses in pets, with coverage for common issues like bee stings, and provides easy claim processing through their app with direct reimbursement.
The program is backed by over 30 years of experience, covers over a million pets, and helps with unexpected vet costs. It also offers easy digital claims and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans.
noCD offers live virtual therapy using licensed therapists trained in Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), a proven method for treating OCD, allowing individuals to feel supported without judgment.
The Holly Hotel in Michigan is a historic site that originally served as a railroad stop and later became a restaurant and comedy club, with ties to Carrie Nation's protests and a legacy of fires and renovations.
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