E482 A Haunted Coffee and a Propaganda Theatre - featuring That's Pretty Dark

Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare, he ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first-time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that. You really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans, that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks, like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents. Because let's be honest, that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets. And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy. Just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters. Your pet, my little hankies, and to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. One more time again, that's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. I've told you guys before that I got Allison. Well, I tried to surprise Allison with this cobblestone fireplace for the house. And I got it from Wayfair. It's very, very cute, very witchy, very spooky. I feel like underneath the right thick ceiling beams, real or fake, it would look incredible. And by the way, those beams are also on Wayfair. But now it has been moved into what will be the spook easy of our house. And I'm not allowed to see what they're doing in their Allison and her parents have been working on that day in and day out. And I know that the fireplace has become like the centerpiece that they're working the whole thing around. So I'm very excited to see how it turns out. Wish me luck. I'm hoping it's going to look as spooky as promised. I will take pictures when I finally can see what's going on. All I know is that that fireplace became the focal point of the entire room. So if you would like your own focal point, whether that's a fireplace or a couch or a table or whatever your thing is, you can head over to Wayfair and transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase and head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-r.com. Wayfair every style, every home. This is so embarrassing because I feel like we're being called out. We're partnering with Reddit and I use it to fall asleep because Allison, she could hear if I'm watching videos. So I need something silent. I started using Reddit to read at night. And then all sorts of separates is very fun whenever I'm traveling, shocking amount of information for Reddit these days. If I'm looking something up, Reddit is the first link. My favorite is when you search for things online and the auto-fillin is Reddit. And it's basically people holding something in their hand and then they say guess what's in my hand and then you comment. And then the next day they reveal it and you see you can practice your psychic gifts. So listen, there's something for everybody. I mean, for me, it's my reality TV show Scandals. I don't know anybody else who watches my stories and so I have to go on Reddit. And all of a sudden I'm in a huge community full of people who are talking about it and it's been very wonderful. I also get a lot of local community subreddits and that's what I've actually found out about events have taken Allison on dates too. It's very nice. That's why we turn to our favorite subreddits when we are looking for basically entertainment information, any of the above. Download the Reddit app and get answers on whether you're psychic. Whether or not people agree on your scandals, your drama. Yeah, whether you have a hot take or not, you'll find out. Download the Reddit app today. I am so excited to now officially start the podcast and welcome our two wonderful guests. We have Christian and Kaelin here from that's pretty dark. We're so happy to have you here. I have actually not met either of you officially even e-met. Not until right now. Weirdly talked about you when you've come at that. Very scallion. That's right. Thank you. I knew we'd be friends, but I have talked about you in that. I've mentioned you and said, oh yeah, I haven't met them. I've met Kaelin, so it's my favorite way to know a person is like, yeah, you know, they we've never met. I should know that. Yeah, well your story precedes you, you know what I mean? I know a reputation. Yeah, I think that's actually kind of a super power. So anyway, we're so happy to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you. And yeah, Emma and Kaelin have been on a speed date, right? We don't make the fast of you knowing each other when we were dating briefly. Oh, 15 minutes or so. And it was a great, a great, honestly, one of the things I've ever been on. Yeah, say it. Yeah, truly. But neither of you gave each other a ride home. Wasn't that where it ended up? I was just like, it wasn't the ride and kind of vibe. No, no, no, no. But Kaelin did send me some lovely stickers and they are officially now the stickers that ended my sticker book. Oh, the final chapter. We can know what, I remember that question of would you give the other person ride? And I was with Taylor of Creeps and Crimes and it ended up that we were both trying to give each other a ride. And we accidentally like swapped cities or something. And then you'll be where she is. She'll be where you are. Yeah, exactly. We switched places and then Eva ended up coming in and saying, I'll give both of you a ride. So we kind of just like, like botched our way into a ride from Eva. Beautiful. Yeah. So I do remember that. That was fun. Those are way too trusting. That's one word for it. That's how I feel personally. Yes, we're all connected. Great circle of parapods. Yeah, we are just beyond thrilled. Thank you. First of all, for letting us be here, for letting us be on your network. It's the thing that you're not supposed to say to like a prospective suitor or like a job or whatever. But parapods was really the only network we ever imagined. Oh, it's not like we were shopping. If I'm being honest, it made so much sense to us. Just too much sense. And we were very thrilled that all of you agreed on that. You're very sweet. You guys are so kind. It was truly the like we were shooting for the moon and the moon was parapods and somehow we made it. All right. Well, from our end, we saw your lovely show. And I remember like clicking the website. And I was like, this is this is the stuff. This is it. And it's just it's just a great match, I think. I think our ego is sky high. Thank you so much. Yeah, you just really. Yeah. It was ours for being here. You better just be a ride today. Well, oh, jinx, I was going to say does anyone have senses is and that's why you drink. Does anyone have anything that they're drinking today? Oh, so many things. Okay, hold on. I put it away. But I'm going to get it. Why would you? Oh, so you were like, oh, it's time for an that's why we drink. I guess I'll put my beverage in. We get to be asked the question. Yeah. And you're going to put away. There it is. That's an incredible thing to drink. Now we're talking Clyde Mays, Alabama style whiskey celebratory. That's a question question. That's a sentence that I might allow to show this on. Yeah. You're actually required to show it on here. That is a beauty. I've not had that. I've not had the pleasure. I'll be honest. But it looks like a pleasure. Are you a whiskey person? You know, I'm not. I know you don't like wine historically. Yeah. And I live in Kentucky. So like I really tried with the bourbon thing. It just is like, not. It's not for me. No, I get it. I get it. I got it anyway. I'm not an old man. I'm an old man. I'm an old rich man. Yeah. I feel like if you're in there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Whiskey is my favorite drink to sniff. You know what? Me too. I can't have much of any anymore due to like all weird chronic health issues. So my friends do tastings and I sniff them. Yeah. That's actually so smooth. Welcome to my world. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how to describe it. It is very fun. Once you just commit to the bit and you're like, I'm the sniffer of the party. So these are going to know some sniffing. We'll see if your palette agrees. Yeah. But do you have a favorite thing you've sniffed? Great question. Wow. And I really, I don't. Like I know, you guys are used to the memory of what the whiskey was. And I feel like now a person I kind of like. Yeah. This is second day conversation. Go away. Really? You've never sniffed anything recently. Yeah. What was it like? Anyway, well, Kayla, are you drinking anything? Are you drinking? Yes. It's a bubble water as I call them forever. Blackberry. And this just has the right amount of bubble. It's the Mason period. Like, I don't know. Some bubbles are just too. I like the Aldi brand. And I like Mason period. And I like a little blackberry peach occasionally. That's charming. I like that. Yeah. Oh, I have a little THC seltzer for funsies. Christine, I thought that's what that was. I recognize it again. That's all I'll say. It's pretty darn good. Oh, it's pretty darn good. I got to try. Is that the raspberry lime? Or I'll know it is. Just to know it is. You sure do. Grown and Kentucky, by the way. So we're all doing her local. I'm just to finish it out. I am drinking another moon punch. Capri Sun. Oh, yeah. It is. This one is the waning crescent. I have to find some of that. I really. I haven't had that one. They are so many things that I talk about on our show. Or anytime I talk about nostalgic things. It's like Super Soakers and Capri Sun. Capri Sun. Oh, my gushers. Capri Sun. I would love to talk to you about Super Soakers one day. We don't have to do it right now because it'll get too lengthy. But. I do, I have a lot of opinions about the super-soakers. And I do think Capri Suns, I thought it was fitting since you are also in a stalgia-based podcast, so that was stalgia-free, very lovely. - Really, anything that had like juicy commercials. - Oh, yeah. - There's lots of fluid. - They were doing something that psychically do us or psychiatrically, I don't know, but like, something was happening. - We were all going through puberty, you know. - Neurons were, synapses were firing, et cetera. - Some things were, dots were connecting, just like squishing, yeah, for sure. - Well, since you are also a spooky and stalgia-based podcast, we have a very fun topic for people today, but I'm going to start it off, I'm going to pre-game with my own topic to lead it to your topic, so excited. - And the connection between the two, maybe people will know where we're heading when I say this, but I have a story for everybody today, and it is in St. Helens, Oregon. And if people know what that means, then they know what that means, and if not, you're going for a nice surprise. - This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Domains. We have you Squarespace since we started the podcast almost 10 years ago, actually, and the Schultz-Worth Manor, we now have two family members using Squarespace because Allison and her jewelry business, for just craft, just started using Squarespace themselves. She was like, "I really need a website," and I said, "We've never had a problem with Squarespace, you gotta use them." With Squarespace, your domain comes with everything included from the moment that you register, you get every feature, every tool, everything you need to manage, everything, for your website, just in one place, from email forwarding to domain renewals, you don't have to worry about going elsewhere for any of it. It's all in one spot. And now you can not just secure your domain without any extra fees when we were starting our website, it would cost all this extra money, just to have the rights to the name or to the URL, but Squarespace has that handled, and your domain includes advanced built-in security and privacy protections with an activity log, so you know everything that's going on on your website at all times, you never have to wonder when something changed at all. And with Squarespace, you also can unlock a full suite of tools, not just the website builder, but email campaigns, scheduling, all of that from, again, just one place, it's really wonderful. We love Squarespace, we have been singing their praises for a long time, and that's because for the last 10 years, they have only gotten better and better and better. So please go check them out, check out squarespace.com/drinkforfreecharile, and when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a domain. If you consider yourself an enthusiast of dark Victorian history, you probably already know about the age of spiritualism, the grizzly murders, the body snatchers, but I try to dig a little bit deeper. My name is Genevieve Manion, hostess of My Victorian Nightmare. If you find yourself intrigued by the salacious scandals, haunted happenings and gothic poetry of the 1800s, join me every Monday for My Victorian Nightmare, wherever you find your podcasts. - I told Esperanza like this year, you know, I'm not gonna be on stage like I was last year, and so this year, when you are styling me through daily look, my personal styling service, I would like you to look into more elevated like day to day kind of carpool stop. I just wanna like, pop around and be like, oh me, yeah, you know, I have classic easy style. And daily look, thank you for sending Esperanza my way. She has really gotten my vibe and has sent me some of my favorite pieces. - Daily look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. And with daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist like Big E over there, to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. And it's not an algorithm, they're real personal stylist. So you can have a bond just like Christine does with that bond. - It's very special, head to dailylook.com and use code drink for 50% off your first order. You can try it on up to 12 premium pieces in the comfort of your home. And daily look has sizes for almost everybody from extra small to three X and zero to 24, which is also awesome. - It's time to get your personal stylist with dailylook head dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50% off your first order. - Once again, that's dailylook.com for 50% off. And make sure you use our promo code drink so they know we sent you. One last time, dailylook.com promo code drink. (drink buzzing) - We're gonna cover the Klondike Hotel. And I say Klondike Hotel hesitantly because I learned through my research that it is sometimes called the Klondike Hotel. Sometimes it was called the Klondike Tavern. And sometimes it's called the Klondike Restaurant and Bar. And recently it has just been called the Klondike. So, - Mm-hmm. - All three, all four. - Consist. - All four at once. - Thank you, so buckle in. And as I mentioned, this is in downtown St. Helens, Oregon. The building itself was built in 1910 and it was originally called a completely different name, which is the St. Helens Hotel. - Five miles. - Five miles. - Five miles. (laughs) - And the St. Helens Hotel opened, although it was mainly more of a boarding house for the workers in town. And fun fact, there was a brothel behind it. So I like to imagine that there was probably some colorful history going on there, but not your average Joe Hotel. Except just kidding, every hotel in the early 1900s seems to have been connected to a brothel. - It was just part of the, it was just a different time. - What else were they gonna do, you know? - Yeah, exactly. - They didn't have screens. - I know. - Pre-screens in general. - They didn't have phones. - And they couldn't read, so they couldn't like, have library. - Not most? - I know. - Many of them could not read. - It's actually like so. - And down here we have our selection of fine books and literature class, literature. - And there's the brothel, the door to the right. Yeah, sorry, take your break. - So my understanding of, I mean, I'm going real quick through this, just that it was a hotel also a boarding house. And then at some point, the bar closed. I know the bar closed in 1961. There was a bar inside this hotel. It closed, but then was it by chance called a Klondike bar? - Oh, literally. - Yes. - What would you do at the Klondike bar? - Literally anything. - Thank you, first of all, thank you for mentioning that. If you did not, I literally had highlighted in my notes that like the Klondike bar is like also nostalgic. And I was like, what are the odds? - I locked your own joke, I'm sorry. I was hoping somebody would say it, so I'm glad. - I'm so glad. - It had to be you. - The dots. - Yeah, connecting. - Thank you, connecting. - So that's Stellia, my thing, 'cause whether it is, yeah. The bar closed in 1961. And I think it was on the second floor of this building. That was a hotel. So I say that because it's odd that now the tavern has reopened since on the second floor of what is now everywhere else in abandoned buildings. You have to go to the second floor of a building that's not really used to go to the restaurant. - Well, that's a recipe for paranormal happening. - Yeah. - For bad. - They asked for it. - I agree. And at some point, I don't know if the St. Helen's Hotel became officially named the Klondike Hotel, or if it got the name the Klondike because the bar inside was called the Klondike Restaurant in the Bar, or the Klondike. So I don't know how Klondike, people have suggested in the past do the Klondike Hotel. And then Eva, who actually is the one who suggested this topic, I think Eva also called it the Klondike Hotel. So it's known as the Klondike Hotel when you search for it. But nowhere is it actually called that. - And what came out of the bar of the hotel? It's just kind of murky. - Yeah, it's all murky. I really, I tried and yet I came up with kind of nothing. So we understand that. - We understand that. - We can have it. - Thank you. So although the bar is open inside the hotel, the rest of the building is closed off, which, as you said, is the perfect recipe for ghosts. And in 2018, the Klondike Restaurant and Bar, or the Klondike Tavern, however you call it, it, at the time they thought it was permanently closing down. Because I guess it was just hard to maintain and things like that. And up until that time, 2018, this was known to be one of the most haunted places in Oregon. So it, or, or a gone. - I don't know. - Nope, you're right the first time. - I hear it every time. - Or I go down. - Or I go down. - I don't know if they're option. - The Klondike State. - So, in 2018, right before it closed, up until that point, it was noted everywhere, as incredibly haunted. People had investigations going on in there. A TV show's filmed in there. Lorraine Warren actually went in. I don't know if you were familiar with the Warren's, but, okay. - Oh yes. - So Lorraine Warren went in there with one of the TV shows and they did a three day investigation there. And she was like, "Oh, it's so haunted." She, of course, of course. I've never seen her go into a place to not think it's haunted. - I'm not surprised. - Did Mr. Bagans enter the chat? - Bagans has not been there yet, okay. - Well, there's always time for that, I think. - Always. - He'll find his house. - Of the things people have witnessed here, people have heard voices in empty rooms. They've also heard voices whispering their names, which cannot imagine something. - Lorraine, that's right. Lorraine. - Lorraine. - Lorraine. - Oh, that's actually very scary. - Perfect, thank you. - Your husband sucks. - Your husband's done so well to you. - You're so cute. - You're the worse. (laughing) - You know what, that is worse. - That is worse. - It's just being judged and criticized. - It's just being like negative. - Of course, it goes to hate you. - Yeah, it is you just specifically. - We just covered that in an episode. We recorded an episode that will come out before this one, [BLANK_AUDIO] come out yet where these ghosts just hated Nick Groff of adventures. And literally anytime they talk to them, they're like, fuck Nick Groff. They're like, let us know you're here. It's like, we hate you Nick. It's like, wow, it's got to be personal at that point. I don't know. Well, so people hear all sorts of voices. They hear a little girl crying out. Apparently the radio will turn on and off and the volume will change itself. A coffee maker turns itself on and off, which I'm kind of okay with that. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it's making a good cup of coffee, sure. But if it makes a bad cup of coffee, yeah, as I say, if it's making it from the same grounds over and over again, that's pretty gnarly. I think it's not like your fault, but it's your responsibility. Yeah, it's up to you. If you're going to be involved in this, do something about it. You know, imagine if the ghosts are now also leaving notes on the coffee maker, be like, whoever didn't clean up last time on to you. This might be radical way. Oh, man. So objects move on their own throughout the building, pictures of themselves off of walls, light bulbs explode, drinking glasses have shattered themselves. And people have seen figures and the windows on floors that are blocked off, so nobody should be there, but they see people walking around up there. They've seen a little boy asking for his dad, and then he vanishes. That's sad. I want to know the lore, but also I think maybe for my own mental health. It's probably for the best. I don't know. Yeah, it's probably just a real bummer, like I'm nosy, but like, I don't know if I'm that nosy. People have also seen an older man sitting at a booth, and as soon as the waiter goes up to take his order, he vanishes, which I love. And then people see a floating half of a body at the top of the stairs. I see like just the head and torso, but no feet. How'd you get at the stairs? Anyway, to go back to the waiter. Isn't that just a waiter? Oh, that's something. Actually, we officially side with the service industry. Yeah, you guys are on your second date. It's all about how you treat the way. You know what? Pay attention. We're paying attention. It's a great point. It's so true. The building, like I said, has had a bunch of paranormal investigations come through. They've also had like, they've hosted spiritual classes there. So I just know Christina need the shit up there. They've had like classes hosted there were like to open up your third eye and like psychic classes. And you go in there with an experienced psychic and they help you tap into stuff. Yeah, I just, I just know Christina would you do I was get the Klondike bar? Oh, well, it feels like a fake sentence. It's gone from what would you do for a Klondike bar? What would you do at the Klondike bar? It's truth or dare at the Klondike bar. Yeah, I mean, you have to because you don't want your third eye to be blind. Oh, yeah. Now, hang on. You're like, hang on semi-charmed. I've actually, my footing has been destabilized. Apparently, this is a quote from a newspaper article. I saw nearly every team or investigation, a group that's gone investigate there. Nearly every team has reported sending an altercation that took place somewhere on the second floor, which is where the bar was. So I can see like a saloon where the alcohol is. Yes. The show that Lorraine Warren guessed it on was a paranormal state fun fact in case you want to go watch it. And I did say in 2018 that the building closed and they thought for good, but after the pandemic, there was a guy from Portland named Holcomb Waller. And he took a tour of it. And he was like, I've always wanted to open my own bed and breakfast or bootie hotel or some phrasing like that. He was like, maybe I just do that right now. And he ended up buying the place. And his plan, at least at the time of this news article, was to reopen the restaurant and reopen the hotel and completely have it as it once was. I think since then the hotel plans are out. And it's just the restaurant that's open, which it's now been according to its website, renamed the Klondike. And I have not seen any mention of him talking about ghosts, but maybe that's part of his like rebrand. But I would argue that the rebrand needs the ghosts. Why would you lean in? He's wrong at this point. I don't know, if he's listening, please get your shit. Well, that's the hotel. That guy owns a hotel. I think you just would assume that if he was born for it. Yeah. He's born for it. My name's Open Waller. You are, you are the owner of our hotel. Your name's interesting, but we have to make your first name way weirder. Yeah. It's very, like, all our last name. Yeah. Yeah. Very weird. I feel like there's a lot of people in the world who have two first names as their first and last name. I don't get a lot of two last names. That's true. That's a power move. Anyway, that is the Klondike building. I'm just going to call it in St. Helens, Oregon. That's a quick little one. I only made it super quick so that we, the two of you could really, I know that you prepared some very extensive notes and I did not want to stop on your toes here. Too many, honestly. Far too many. Tell us all the fun of the nostalgia that is St. Helens, Oregon. Well, I think it's only fair and only fitting that M revealed the topic. As this is your childhood hunt, this is the thing that was haunting you and childhood. That's right. That's right. That you gave us options to talk about and we were very excited to talk about this one. Thank you. I was, I was very excited. You said, hmm, give me some nostalgic movies that you really like. And I went, oh, my God, please sit down. Options are endless. But one of the first ones I, I have requested was, was Halloween Town. That's all going to say St. Helens or Halloween Town. That's where we're going today. That's where we're headed. Yeah, Halloween Town. You also mentioned double, double toil and trouble. And any listeners of that's pretty dark will know that I'm chomping, champing really at the bit to do. It's champing. Yeah, actually episode. So I was so stoked to see that. And then they dual star is so tight-lipped. They don't tell you anything. So it's like, if I can't do a dual star production with them in Christine, Halloween Town's the next best thing. Yeah, I have. Kaelin has shoehorned a Mary Kate and Ashley reference into every single episode. Yeah. It's a signal. It's a sickness. And I'm not about it because I grew up with older sisters. I'm the youngest of, I have two older sisters. And I used to hang out with them and all their friends. And we used to watch Mary Kate and Ashley movies at every sleepover we had. So you putting a reference into every episode is actually why we put you on the network. So that was where all along it was riding on that. I'm really glad that we connected that way. Before you start, I would like to have our audience also know that Christine, this was your first time watching Halloween Town, which is so exciting. It was, it was a fucking delight. I was beside myself. I'm so happy. I'm just so happy. I just fucking loved it. That's all. It's like if a spirit Halloween became a cozy little town and gave you like a hug. Yeah, and gave you a hug. It was so cheery. I just loved it. Well, the way I described it was, it's like Hocus Pocus set and stars hollow. That's it. I think the best quote I've ever heard. That's a powerhouse. 100% correct. All right. I'm signing off. You guys have fun. That was a great conversation. We appreciate it. Before we do dive into Halloween, tell me, I'll give kind of a brief idea of what our show is. Again, we're that's pretty dark podcast. It is more than just a rewatch podcast. The thing that Christian and I kind of found as we were just talking, we've been at this for like five years now. We've been friends for a decade. And as we're talking about what we grew up on and what we cared about, we kept realizing that we all felt like we watched these things on our VHS player by ourselves or with our siblings. But this was before any of us could connect and talk about what we were seeing. That's such a good point. So much of the media that we were consuming at the time, we are millennials, but obviously even Gen X and Gen Z, like we were consuming this media, but it was very emotionally deep, we'll say. There was a lot of emotional depth to the things we were seeing. And it's not like we talk about like the subliminal darkness or like what was darker or deeper. And we kept having these conversations. And we realized we just needed a place to talk about that from our childhood. Because we're the last generation to fully experience like true disconnect from yeah, you know, the social media era, childhood. Pre-pre-pre-digit digital age and everything. So yeah, I mean, such a good point to have a place to talk about it has been, you know, bountiful. That's amazing because it's more than just like what was made. It's the why and the how. Like the Don Bluth movies that made you cry constantly, like all dogs that have in and traumatized viewers, traumatizing things like courage is cowardly dog, you know, that are just. Yeah, it's classic. And we grew up on it and like what did it do to us and why? And nine times out of ten, we come into it feeling like, whoa, this was so heavy. Why do we watch it as kids? And we come out going, we're really better off for having watched that like that talk. We grew from it. So it's like, you know, the cultural context, there's like, you're taking four decades later, like now connecting over it, which is so cool. So you know, it didn't have the time. Yeah, yeah, it's commiserating, honestly, yeah, essentially, yeah, commiserating, but it's kind of like we're taking the head off of of the Scooby-Doo monsters of that stuff that we watched when we were alone. And everything that was hiding in our imagination and in our closet and better understanding, how they actually impacted us. Well, I haven't shared this yet, but the reason, when I watched Halloween town, I remembered the reason I had never seen it is 'cause I started it and I was too scared as a kid and I never finished it. I was too scared. I was so scared of everything that just wasn't gonna happen. - I was doomed. But I would watch everything with my older sister. - I think if I had older siblings, I would have. - Yeah, I didn't have any. - We would laugh at it. - We would laugh during the day and then at night, I would like to be too afraid to sleep and not have to go run to her room in the other side of the house and sleep in her room. 'Cause I was too scared, you know? - I was the older sister, but I was also. - So you had to be brave, but it was the same. - I wasn't. - Wow. - I was really child, so no one was telling me what was going on. I just heard at school, I needed to watch this thing and I went, okay, and I was doing it. - I had to do it, so whatever hit you hit you. - Our show, we tend to focus on children's media, things that we grew up with. But it's the things that scared us as children that still continue to haunt us as the birds that have stuck with us over time. - Wow. And so we make it the way to-- - And we did back into like Pinocchio, like older stuff too, you know? - Yeah, we did. - But we did. - Yeah, very far. - You know, back in time. - We covered Pinocchio, the history of Pinocchio. Back to-- - Oh man. - Cold weathering back in the 1800s, writing these stories and everything. - I did not know about Pinocchio at the time. I have to write that one down. - Me too, actually. - We did it for Christmas. - There are so many layers of his, it's not just like what was made, but like what were the creators thinking that made them make what they made to make us think how we think to bring us here today, making the stuff that we make. - Quick side. - Question, have you covered the Brave Little Toaster goes to Mars? - We, we've covered the Brave Little Toaster. - We have not done those to Mars yet. - 'Cause yesterday after I finished Halloween town, I keep having this, so this is so fucking insane. I'm so sorry, everybody. I'm just gonna say it and then we can move on. It's insane. - No, no, no. - Say it. - I got Frankie two weeks ago. And while I was receiving Raky for the first time in years, I had this sudden like flashback. And it was all these balloons in outer space singing. And I was like, what the fuck? It's like I was there yesterday. - Almost. - It's like kept popping back into my head throughout the week. And then finally I was like, that's seen from the Brave Little Toaster goes to Mars. Like I don't know where from the recesses of my subconscious like a cold out. But then after I finished Halloween town, that came up as like recommended viewing. And I was like, I wonder if it really was in this movie. And I clicked it and like 10 minutes in. It's these balloons in outer space singing. And I'm like having this like weird existential crisis. Like why is this? - That was just really stuffed in there. - It must've like come out of my head. - It was so strange. Anyway, I watched that and had a lot of weird memories of how much those two movies kind of like disturbed me. - Well, a lot of you want to remember the clown scenes 'cause it's a dream in that movie. - Yes, the clown, yeah, I hadn't, they, 'cause I didn't watch the first one. - Sorry, bring it back. - No, I'm like, oh my god, the clown. I forgot about the clown. - Oh no. - We've never done a sequel yet. - Okay. - But if you ever do that, you're gonna have to come on show. - You're gonna have to come. - I really will say, I watched it. And I was like, okay, aside from the fact that they call humans master, all the appliances call human master, which is like super not really didn't stand up, didn't hold up over time. But other than that, like, I was like, it's pretty good watch. - Yeah. - Very well. - Sorry, we're here for Halloween town, anyway. That's no, we needed to tangent to that because that's very important. Again, formative. And that's really what we're here to talk about. So part of what we do is we talk through like the production story. So I've got some brief stuff on that and then we'll kind of dive into the plot of the movie and give all of your very gracious listeners a little taste of what it's like. - Love it. - That's pretty dark. And if at any point, this doesn't sound fun to you, just let me know and we'll truncate it even further and speak more. - Oh, this will pull the product forward, the VHS. - Well, fast forward. - Fast forward, love that. - Just yeah, vaudeville hook, just get me, get me having you. - We would never forget to you. - I will say as someone who's obsessed with fun facts, I don't think there's gonna be a moment that I regret at all today. So. - That's amazing. - That helps, truly, that does. But I'll start off again, with a little bit of the production story because the story of Halloween Towns started not with like a grand studio vision. Nobody was like imagining this happening to make money necessarily on the studio side. It was a kid who asked a question. So in 1991, we have Sherry Singer, who was the senior vice president of TV movies for Walt Disney Television, was assigned to collaborate with Steve White Entertainment. And this was a new company led by this television executive who had been at NBC before like striking out and creating his own company. They worked together as producers and they ended up falling in love, and they got married in 1993. So it started on this like TV executive love story. And around that time, Steve had told Sherry, so he had a daughter from previous relationship, who asked him where all the creatures from Halloween go the rest of the year when it isn't Halloween. And nightmare before Christmas premiered in October of 1993. So that's probably what everyone is thinking. But she, this little girl, did not have the benefit of knowing Jack Skellington yet. But this question that she asked her dad turned into a pitch and then a script. And then it was rejected several times by many different studios. They shopped it around for years and years. NBC passed on it, Disney Channel passed on it. But then there was sort of a turn in the tides because Disney Channel made under wraps. I don't know if they'll are familiar with under wraps. The very first decop. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I don't know about under wraps. For me, it would have been. But once they did that, they were like, oh, wait. I turns out kids do love spooky stuff after all. What were we thinking? And so they circled back to this team who had this idea. And for whatever reason, it was not clear to me on my research. But the original screenplay had been written with more of like an adult demographic focus. Like it wasn't even written as a kid's movie, despite it being a question from the kid, which I thought was very strange. But once Disney Channel circled back, they kind of had it re-tooled for a child audience. Although the writer of the original screenplay left one little souvenir, which was that he named the Piper kids after his kids. So morning and Dylan and Sophie are named after his kids. Oh, when I even watching that was like, those are great names for three siblings. They sound like kids in the '90s movie, don't they? Yeah. Then Disney Channel brought in director Duane Dunham. He, like in his early career, was editing for projects, like Return of the Jedi, Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks, like in the '80s. And that's something else we love to do on our show is we see the creative voices that were behind this-- where did they come from and what were they-- and then now it's Halloween town. You know what I mean? So they're bringing their vision in that '80s slant that focused into Halloween town. So there's, again, the layers are just all on top of each other. But he had previously directed Homeward Boundhates, even bringing up Painful Homeward Boundhates. I'm sure we're going to cover that one day. Oh, God. We're good luck when we get there. I shut her at the thought. But-- I recently made my partner watch it for the very first time because she was like, what are you talking about? And I was like-- Did she cry the whole time? Yeah, how did you not see it? Oh, now she still cries anytime. I just go, Peter, why do you come down? I was so fucked up. He was-- he was just too old. He was just too old. Oh, yeah. We watched that over and over and over. Painting, yeah. But that's exactly why we're here, honestly. But after Halloween town, here's more Decom lore. Dwayne Dunham went on to do several more Decoms. The 13th year, double teamed, right on track, Tiger Crews. Now you see it. So these were all the same director. He became like a Decom director. Yeah, slam dunk after slam dunk. Seriously, Namplet. Yeah, but he didn't direct "Luck of the Irish," which is my favorite Decom. Interesting. A great Decom. Because I didn't grow up with Disney channels. So let's do the one that I saw. I didn't either. I didn't just watch this school until I was like 12 or something. It was horrible. I have a fun fact about "Luck of the Irish" that kind of plays into Halloween town. Yeah, OK. Do tell. In Halloween town-- Hi, Halloween town height. Wasn't that one of the movies? Yes. The same high school, and that movie is the same as "Luck of the Irish." Oh, like the filmmaking location? I was going to say, it must be probably an LA. I don't know. All I know is I remember watching "Luck of the Irish" very recently, and I was looking up fun facts. And it said Halloween town. I was like-- The fun fact that I saw this St. Patrick's Day is that there's the scene where they're sitting at the max, like the Big Mac computers. And they're in a rainbow. Like the colors are in a rainbow. And Ryan is at the end of the rainbow. At the end of the rainbow. I've never noticed that. Oh my god, how fun. Very fun. Two-for-one D-com fun facts. Wow. But anyway, they hooked Dwayne in by telling him that he would be working with a $20 to $30 million budget. And if you have seen the film, you can probably guess that that's not what happened. It was closer to a $4 million budget, which is very different. But still, obviously, incredible for what they were able to do. They shot the entire movie in about 24 days in 1998 in and around St. Helens, like you mentioned him. They basically took over the whole main square of the town and turned it into Halloween town. So that's kind of why it feels like it does, because they just took over. The whole-- like Star Solo, like you said. Here is this whole town square. Of course, that's on a lot. But this was just a literal town functioning existing. And they're like, you know what? We're just going to come near the space for-- How do I say it's fine? that space. So pretty cool. Great question. And I am certain there there were several locations around Saint Helens and it's let us know him. I don't I don't want to steal from you, but I think I have an answer. I just remember like the town recently experiencing like a volcano or something. And it was because that the town was like pretty abandoned. And so they were so eager for people to hey, they were very excited for people that come in like hopefully bring it. And that really paid off because I was just going to say I'm not positive at that. That's amazing to hear. I didn't know, but like they they have filmed like that's a popular filming location now or at least somewhat because in addition to being the filming location for Halloween town, it was also the filming location for a lot of twilight. Several different twilight filming locations are right around the corner from all of these Halloween town filming locations in Saint Helens. And they still have like a spirit of Halloween town festival there like in October. I've never been, but they Kimberly Jay Brown attends and last year Jackson Rathbone was there like Jasper Cohen. So I have yet to go, but I'm fair. I follow Kimberly Jay Brown on Tech Talk and she always filters herself there. And she apparently every year they do a pumpkin lighting ceremony in the main square where like they have a replica of the big pumpkin that they bring out and like the whole town lights. It's incredible. You have to do that. You have to. Yeah, I was going to say, do you think they have a caliber every year that comes out like they should definitely have a guy on a top hat? I wonder because they every year invite Kimberly Jay Brown there and she really hosts the ceremony. So I wonder if she like has to fight someone off. I don't know. So to your point, let's just go. Let's just join there. Honestly, there's one way to find out. We all know how we can expense it for work, right? Is that how that works? Oh, yeah. Write that off on my taxes. Yes. I mean, I'm down. I mean, no further convincing. There were several other like filming locations, one of which I know Eva had mentioned in the research of the Columbia Theatre was kind of prominent in Halloween town. That's also got some haunted history to it. But this was all kind of done in the setting in the whole movie. Yeah, yeah. It is scary. It's probably because I want to go. I think that was probably much earlier than that. But I'd like to think it was at that scene. Yeah. I want to go watch Halloween town in that theater. Oh, you know, they probably do. I was going to say it would be it would be such a wasted opportunity if they agreed. And they probably make so much money if they did in like every other seat. Let's go. Yeah, storm the doors. They have to stay. So let me find something. Instead of a trailer, they should have the pre-show of like the swirly portal and a guy comes out of do when the sheen's just in the hole. Yeah. And speaking of Kimberly J. Brown, I need to get your opinion on this. How upset were you about her recasting in the later Halloween town? You didn't even finish the sentence. I didn't know that. And I find that extremely absurd because she was a fucking star like two. Like you look at her in that movie. I'm like a fucking star power. And I went and followed her afterward and was like scrolling all the way through to like old Halloween towns that she hosted. I was like digging way into her. I'm like, what a delight. So the fact that they get crushed on her too. I also did back in the day. I remember. I didn't understand what it was. But I was like, I'm weirdly attached to that person. Why can't I stop looking at her? I can't stop looking at her. I'm so scared of that. Do I want to be a chroma witch? Or do I want to be with Marnie? Do I want to marry a chroma witch? Yeah. But no, I remember when they recast. And honestly, that's the reason I didn't watch Halloween 3. Well, I can't let they recast. Might as well boycott. She didn't want to be recast either. I think she just got too old or something and they like come up with a deal. It is literally on record that she was recast because they wanted somebody younger in the role, which you think you're going to pull the wool over. Like it had been one of my things. Yeah, right. Some of us may have aged out, but like we're not dumb. We all have a crush on her. We recognize her. To which I say, make the character older. Yeah, jump ahead. If you want, how far is my argument? My whole thing with this is that she was considered too old to play Marnie. She is literally Marnie's age. She was 13 when she played the character. Marnie. She is Marnie. How is that? Yeah, how can you? How do you? I don't understand. I don't know how you can move your way out of saying that she's too old to play the character that she originally know nothing. These people know nothing. So I don't know anything. I don't know. I think they keep all of her siblings. Like the everyone else was normally asked to come back. So her own ass brother who are like a deep voice in a beard by the end. He was like, you're fine. You're fine. That's good. That's okay. No, he's a man. So he can do no wrong. Am I performing too much? No, just right. Just exactly. Don't worry. We'll mute you when you're when you're overdoing it. I was thinking it's like her mom was the same actor. So she had to pretend to have a different daughter. She's the same daughter. At the very least they should have written in a storyline that like, oh, you know, she's become so powerful. They had to disguise her like something. Something that works me like on sitcoms when they don't, they don't even address it. Fresh prints may have addressed it when Vivian was recast. I think like early on and I think they'd made a joke. Like they said. That was a masterclass. Yes. Fantastic. Because it was like Morgan has been in time out for a really long time. And then they redid it. I don't know. I also watched the girl meets world. The boy meets world spin off. Yeah. And they they extra called out the fact that they not only recast her as one person, but two people. And they literally had both women acting in the scene as one sister. And they would go, hey Morgan and both of them would just wave. Good for them. Good for them. Just be a little self aware. Somebody has to do an episode on recast women like in the rules. Yeah. That's interesting. Kevin or whatever the show is called. Oh, I love that show. Kevin Kevin can Kevin can fuck himself. Kevin can fuck himself. That's the whole premise, right? It's that is one of the best shows I think I've seen and received it. Yeah. It's so good. It's good. It's good. But it comes from the idea that like, and you jot it down. It's like when the sitcoms are recast. Yeah. And it's like a sitcom, but not. Oh, my God. It's so good. Okay. Perfect. We go in so many directions. But one more direction, we have to go in before we get into the plot of Halloween town is that the it's, you know, millennials must know this information. Mark Mother's Bob, who is from Devo and also the brain behind Rugrats did the score for Halloween town. Wait, what score? Oh, Mark Mother's Bob. Get out. Oh, cool. Yeah. So if you hear like the Rugrats theme now, every time you hear it, you can think of Halloween town. I love that. Fun. Fun. And I bet you M here's a theme song quite a long. Oh, I hear both of them in my head right now. Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day. And I mean, it's not just because, you know, we talk about it on the podcast all the time. But I truly think so much of my world view came from Rugrats. Like the way that the adults interact with each other in a weird, like tongue in cheek. Yeah. And they're Dr. Lipschitz and they're just. Yeah. I mean, just like your Lipschitz, man. I learned how grownups behave watching that show. And it's like, you're it. I often feel like stew pickles with the putting it for. I lost all my life. It's so relatable. And they're like younger than us, but they seem so much older. Yeah, I would do or something. Yeah, I refuse to. They would be like invited to a party at my house. And we would all be the same age. Her views to believe it. Painful. Yeah. And really, Halloween town is about that coming of age, about feeling like you're ready for something, all that good stuff, because basically the whole premise of this film is that a 13 year old girl is having a very relatable, very aggressive early teen crisis because she knows that there's something different about her. She feels stifled by her parent and she is absolutely convinced that the normal life that she has being like she weren't into is a scam. And she's correct. She's fully correct about everything that she thinks and feels. Yes. She goes about it in an interesting way, though. There is so much nostalgia in these opening scenes. There's that orange hue that everything had in the 90s and the wind is like looking up the street, the glow. And there's a bunch of pop psychology happening in this one suburban house because this really precocious kid is trying to like outsmart her mom. And that's also a trope that we run into on our show all the time. It's just like I don't think they knew how to write another type of kid, you know, in the night. They're like smart. Yeah. They're all way too smart. It's we we talked about it in Jumanji with Chris. Oh, he don't's character. Like they're they're just way too smart for their own good. And I like to think that that was who we were. The winner, the witty like callbacks and stuff. I'm all about that. Yeah. Marnie's mom will not let her dress up for Halloween or any of her siblings. Not because of razor blades and apples or any kind of satanic panic, which is why most of my friends couldn't participate in Halloween as a kid. It has none of that overtone at all. She's just basically saying that you can't dress up and she just refuses to tell Marnie why. She refuses to explain anything at all. And we eventually learn this is due to her own generational trauma being being forced into like a witchy world that she didn't true. Being forced into like a witchy world that she didn't choose. It's very much like a Troy Bolton. Like no, it's your dream dad. Yeah. It's such a Troy Bolton. Oh my god. And she just can't bring herself to explain any of this to Marnie, like maybe not realizing or knowing if she's ready, like just not knowing where that line is and Marnie is really pushing it. And I feel like that happens in most parent-child relationships where there's this like individuating. And the parent, like I think the problems in that come from when a parent takes that individuation as like a personal attack. Yes. And/or if the children lose sight of the like love that's underneath the decisions and like why the parents doing what they're doing. Like they both just kind of lose sight of each other's perspective. And it gets really hairy. It does in this case for sure. And I love that it's just a decom. That's just like plastering that. Because we were all this age going through it. And watching somebody going through it on the screen in a pretty loud way was really empowering. And just like getting a heart like venting and like letting steam on like I mean not to get too into it but like yeah that I didn't have space to necessarily be that way. And I feel like it was such like a it's such a emboldening or like yeah. Validating to see on stage. Yeah. Or on screen. All the above. And I was going to say that I was going to ask. I was shut down immediately if I had any any opinions on what was happening. I was just like stop. Just don't talk back. Just do what you told like. Yeah you'll talk back. You'd be in a smart ass you know like all that kind of stuff. It's like I'm just I'm just being a person like questions. Yeah. I wonder as as I'm getting older and now I'm like I can see like the parental side of things also I'm like I feel like it's a second chance to also experience the nostalgia but from a different perspective and be like from the parents. Yeah. You just wanted to protect your kid but then on the flip side the kid like doesn't feel heard and like they know that they're smart enough to be able to probably have these conversations or they think they are but the parents still sees them as a little kid and like it's a very. And the parent hasn't reconciled it in themselves so like they don't know how to handle it. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's like able to like compensate or adjust for the other perspective and so everybody's just like mad at each other. When in reality like all parents like all adults have been children. Children don't have the luxury of having been adults. So the parent has to be the one in that case to be like you know what I remember what that's like and to try and step outside of themselves but they're also doing the really hard job of like parenting and keeping their kids alive and like making this happen you know so. It's a thankless job. Big parent is hard. I say that all of this is a non-parent completely fully recognized but it is a huge crazy undertaking and like we say on our show all the time I think that everybody could benefit from just like like you said like looking at it from a different perspective looking back. I remember how it felt for you. And another talk about a lot is like we're adults now so we have to look at it from both perspectives just like we're saying him it's like now we're analyzing things in a very different way than we did 30 years ago. Yeah. It's tough. There's a lot of psychology there. With the added layer and we're going to get to it in Halloween town as well that our parents maybe didn't go to that extra mile. They maybe didn't do that. That's certainly does not. No, because they're just stuff is like Andy Griffith you know I mean their stuff is like completely different values. We know best and we just tell everybody what to do and it's like well they were also they were they were raised I think that when they became parents that it was the you know I'm the boss. Listen to me. And nowadays I feel like it's it's a little more you're expected to be open-minded and actively communicative with with your kid and so I don't even know if the movie would be if the script would be written the same way today. Right. Interesting point. Probably not. And honestly that's it. This was like the edge of that you know what I mean? This is the early 90s there is that like flip in parenting psychology where where they're like people are at least questioning it and then look at you know how far we've gone 30 years later. So honestly I wasn't even sure if I was going to mention this but I feel like it's a valuable allegory because of the way that like when is so like tight-lipped about how she feels much she's thinking she's not sharing with her kid. I feel like it illustrates the inefficacy of ignorance or like abstinence-based education if you will. She's not going to forget. She's not going to drop it. Yeah you want to protect your kids so you don't tell them about magic or like sex or drugs or whatever thing totally. But all the commercials are so juicy and there's so much in this life. There's so much to figure out. And yeah if your kid is going to step into that reality eventually which by the way they all will it isn't not better to like give something foundational rather than ignoring it because I know and some sources or families are like regions of the country we're from Alabama. It's presented as if like sex education for example will lead to an increase in sexual behavior. And that kind of fear-based thinking has been used over decades to like shape policy and curriculum and actual science and like research shows the exact opposite. It's if you educate kids if you give them tools if you give them information they're going to use those tools and that information to make better decision. And to me it feels like common sense. I was going to say what a shocking thing to learn. But such a good point that it absolutely mirrors that of just like well I'm not going to tell you and then I'm going to be surprised when you're curious about it because I didn't inform you. When you act out or whatever yeah. And in Marney's case it's something inherent within her you know she's like I feel pretty magical mom I don't know like this just feels like it's me and she's like she can't wait to hormones or any other thing that's happening that's out of control. I'm turning 13 soon and all of a sudden these these feelings in my body are telling me. I have a wish on Marney and I'm scared of the movie season but I keep staring at her that was my own problem anyway. But yeah we've all been there. We've all been there and ignorance is also always far more easily manipulated than knowledge. So interesting. You know what you're doing it's going to be less you know imagine if Marney had fallen in with the wrong crowd in thellowing town. Oh yeah. Imagine if she was just a minion of caliber. Oh that's true. You need to see it. Far too easy. Just because she did not. I think this was a sticking point in our own episode because we've actually covered this before we did a fool. We did it for a while. That's right. We did like a big yeah. But we we we tend to cover Halloween movies in October for like spooky season and we do like a big because we're doing spooky stuff all the time. Yeah. But we're halfway to Halloween. We're halfway right now. This is like the perfect time to do. My daughter's birthday is October 1st. So every April Fool's Day. I'm like we're halfway to spooky season. Yeah but like growing up I went to so I grew up Baptist at church. Cool. But I went to a church or church. You were Baptist at church. You were something else. Yeah. And when I wasn't an either one. I wasn't either one. But yeah I kept you know because of all the media every show everything had like a sex education moment in school and I kept waiting for that time. For that's what you were like when's my time when any videos we never learned anything about anything. And it was very it was very we learned really interesting stuff about how Jesus was involved when you stopped pregnant. So I was like oh yeah. He's like that's even worse. Yeah. It's not like I always a threesome when Jesus was involved. It's true right. It's true. I didn't get a lack of information. I got like completely like all but very wrong information. You were very informed just in a very wrong. Very miss very misinformed. Yeah. That kind of works though because we were all we we couldn't have school dances because they were sinful. Dancing with the opposite sex was sinful recently. They never talked about dancing with the same sex because that was just unspeakable. But they always said you have to leave room for the Holy Spirit. Of course. So you're kind of you know dancing the Holy Spirit's there when you're having sex Jesus is there. So it's an orgy. It's really it escalates all the way around. I'm just trying to get fun fact in because I only learned it not too long ago. But so I recently started taking queer line dancing on the weekends and one of the I didn't realize that there was like such a queer history to line dancing but it was because dancing with the same sex was so sinful that a bunch of queer people started agreeing to go line dancing together. So they were technically you wouldn't know if they were dancing together ourselves. That is. Favorite fact in the episode. Yeah. And so I don't even line dancing up in how these line dancing is actually very good. Wow. I love that. I saw they're having a line dancing like a free line dancing class like in our town tomorrow. And I was literally considering it. You know what? My local bookstore which is like super like very progressive and they do a lot of queer events. They're having a queer line dancing event. So I guess maybe that's catching on that fact. That's so cool. I just put that together. I had no idea and then someone said it. They said it in class and they're like, well, as you all know, it's very gay. It's very gay in this room. What are you talking about? I know. I know a lot of people who don't know that. Yeah. I can't wait to tell everyone. I know I can't wait to share this. It's like I'm going to go to the other. I can't tell. Yeah. Close a mind. Because yeah, we did like they're the only kind of dancing. It was like you know, the cupid shuffle, the cha cha slide. Like there were certain line dances. And for the opposite, like because you're not close together, there was the only ones we were allowed to do. So I can't wait to tell everyone I know. It's a fun fact. Yeah. There you have the guys to thank for that. Just contributing where I can. So speaking of the gayism, we don't know for sure, but enter grandma Aggie who is a beautiful, wonderful, incredible icon of a chrome wall, which she shows up unannounced. She's got a bag of candy. She's got some cursed artifacts. And she has no respect at all for Gwen's like no Halloween or magic. She's no time for that bullshit. And I I respect it. I respect it. I respect it. know respect she gets to the house and within minutes she has them in Halloween costumes which wasn't allowed previously and she has them reading this bedtime story and she's like by the way which is are real just just so you know. And what do the odds this one in the book looks exactly like you. Look at look at here. Fun fact Kimberly J. Brown got to keep that profile. Fun. That's sweet. It was modeled after her which is awesome. Fun. But what did the new actress get when she was? Yeah Sarah Paxton stick to your stick to your mermaid and stick to your aquamarining. They should have shown that book in the in the one where Sarah Paxton is it and just her face like paper like just to show how ridiculous it is. Yeah. How insane. If there is ever a Halloween route Halloween tonne reboot I really hope they have heard our commentary. Yes. It's to be like a decom spoof like you know there's like scary movie. Yes it looks spoof you know. Oh my god. They should do a decom satire movie. A satire decom. That'd be hysterical. I think they would go over really well. Maybe like how scary movie is about all the scary movies out there. You gotta try to trick Christine. Yeah. I would accept Disney's really a little bit scary I think in a in a real way. I feel like they'll probably talk into Troy. That's true. I guess we can't TM TM the band with for it. They can hire a good lawyer. They can hire us is really what we're asking Disney. We don't mean we're gonna do it without you. We would never do it without you. We want you to do it with we're on your side. Because Halloween town is a magical place where lots of different sorts of people live together in peace and harmony and can't we do the same? Can't we do the same? Utopia. Aggie says that all of these spooky creatures that call Halloween town home are just like everyone else. Some are kind, some are mean and it's just all in the way that they use their magic. And she says sometimes the slimmiest, raunchiest, ugliest little monsters turn out to be the nicest. And that's just true. I just love that. It's a universal truth. Love it. And that was my my my glow up arc as well. You're like that's how they describe me back in the day. That's how I feel. But through this conversation and another with Gwen, Aggie basically reveals that Marnie is reaching this magical expiration date because on her 13th Halloween, if she doesn't start her her training to be a grandma which then she loses her powers forever. So when was almost there? No pressure at all. It's a little like reverse puberty. It's kind of like you have until 13 and then it stops. Can you imagine if you just lost all that? Marley was within hours of losing it. Gwen was within hours of having victorious. She showed up. She super flew there. She would, I got to figure we have two hours. We got to fix this. And she sure tried. And of course, Marnie over here's all this. And so she is like, I'm going to another dimension tonight. That's what's going to happen because it's now or never. So she and Dylan and Sophie, they all sneak out and they follow Aggie onto this flying bus. There is no misfrizzle to be found. I checked. But we're in Halloween town now. And this is where we're getting to see all of these creatures of Halloween. There's witches, goblins, skeletons of vampires, a whole roster of spirit Halloween costumes essentially. But they've got jobs. They've got an economy like things are popping in Halloween town. But they're just go. Aggie is like explaining to the kids like how Halloween town came to be. And basically said that the people that started a human Halloween imitated the traditions of these creatures like mortal sea mortal do. And she says this was actually how the kids' parents met because Gwen crashed a mortal Halloween party. So this is like dying to live her mortal life. And she crashes a mortal Halloween party. So can you imagine if you're the dad if you're her husband, you're meeting a witch at a Halloween party, cute, good costume, whatever. And then you like the next day you find out, oh, wait, that's not a costume. It wasn't a costume. That's like waking up the next thing going, what did I do? It's like, no, but like really cool. Like in a really cool way. Really cool way, in a magical way. No, boy. Wow. And basically they decided to humans and monsters didn't mix because humans were the real monsters if you can imagine. They marginalized these monsters. They made it hard for them to exist. And so they kind of made it miserable in return. They're retaliating. And this retaliation on the monsters part was turning them evil, which Aggie is very clear and make sure to say which they were not evil. That was not who they were. So they decided to just distance themselves. Very healthy. Take some space. And they created a whole new world, which is Halloween town. And she said this distance allowed the monsters to like settle down and have homes and childrens and jobs and an expert bowling league. Every community has one. And I don't know if it's sad or sweet that when they are like safe and like not oppressed and not being hunted for sport, all any of these magical metaphysical creatures actually wanted in the first place or aspired to have was a human life. A house and a family and a bowling league. Oh my god. That's all they want. All these problems and goals. But that normal life did not last because now people are acting strange. There's this undercurrent of fear. Aggie says that the residents are changing. They're becoming hostile or disappearing. Not in like America right now, though. It's not usually the same neighbors that are becoming hostile as the ones who are disappearing. Right. It's slightly different. Eligory, yes. Very profound what you just said. But she suspects that there is some kind of dark force behind this change. And Aggie needs help to combat it, especially from Gwen, who has now fully rejected all of her magical identity. So there's this generational guilt trip. She tries to put it on Gwen that she needs help. And Gwen says that there are plenty of other witches that could do this. And Aggie basically says, like, you know how it is today? Nobody wants to get involved. And that made me take pause because I'm like, hey, hey, everybody get involved, by the way, get involved. Whoa, that's just like a ripple effect in my. Yeah. Whoa. Nobody nobody wants to fight a fight that's not theirs, but you have to recognize that like first they came for the exactly next. They're first they came for the goblins. All are fine. Then they came for the witches. At the end of the line, like you're in there somewhere. Everybody that you care about is on there somewhere. Now, but it will be your mm-hmm. Yeah. Which makes it your fight now is how I feel. Right. I mean, you're exactly talking to the very right audience. Absolutely. We're with you. That's the hope. That's the hope. And us too. Yeah. I wore my band, the fascist shirt for this. It's so whimsical. That was a birthday gift. Wasn't it? Did I get you that like a birthday Christmas? Oh, I love that. I love that little whimsical book on it. I know. He's going back. Yeah. He lives in a world without fascists. Imagine. Yeah. But Gwen, Gwen wanted to have a normal life, right? We talked about that earlier. That was really where she was going. She wanted to be free of whatever like danger or chaos that she associates with this magical world. And she felt like she could protect her kids from that if she could just keep them guessing until after their 13th birthdays. But she didn't tell them the truth. And now the truth that's showing up anyway, like it does for all of us. Yeah. I mean, imagine finding out on your 14th birthday, you could have been a witch. But you could have been a world like me sad. Oh, my god. Just miss it. And as a college, they're like, I don't talk to my mom. I really can't get into it. But it's like, it's really complicated. It happened in high school. She basically can't go there. You wouldn't understand. It's like a really like insular family thing. Super niche. Yeah. So Marnie takes it upon herself because her mom is, you know, not going to engage. She wants to help her grandmother and, you know, her, her people, her kind. Um, and that involves activating this ancient talisman. They say it's Merlin's talisman, which is a nice touch, I think. Um, it's this ancient thing. But it needs a very specific witch's brew, which is made from scratch, not the boxed witch's brew that I tried out in the microwave that had like the bubble bubble to a level setting my favorite joke in the whole movie. Of course. So good. And then they run around Halloween town collecting all these ingredients. They go to get werewolf, like locks of hair from werewolf from us one. They get go sweat from usana, which don't, you can't think too hard about that. Like on our show, we think too hard about a lot of things. We just have to let it be. I think it's childhood. I've thought too hard about that one. I was like, why does a ghost need to be at a sauna first? Because we said ghost ears. Ghost ears would be great. Ghosts are upset. Make a ghost cry. Yeah. That's like good. Yeah. The sweat thing was weird, especially because he like lost all that weight. And then like, you see that the Andy's like, whoa, my pants are so I'm like, I like that they gave everybody kind of a bit. Like I wrote in my notes, like, oh, I love that every like the kind of, oh, sorry, the off-the-wall characters kind of all got like their moment. And I love that. Yeah. The barber, like this hair salon werewolf had his lines. I was like, I love all these speaking roles. But then with that damn ghost in this, I was like, okay, it's getting weirder by the second. And it's like a bunch of children with this like presumably naked ghost. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. I was like, why are we just standing around with this guy or something? They're like trying to like, yeah, yeah. It's like touching. Yes. It's super weird. Of everything based in Halloween town, that's the one thing I just can't logically justify. Everything else made sense to me. Yeah. That one was a kind of weird off-beat one. But anyway, I agree. And it had like a similar tone like to, I thought of Casper, but I thought of like the uncle's like, Casper meets Wendy Casper, where they're just all of the ghosts are kind of bummed. And that's the kind of world where it goes to a sauna. I guess. Right. Yes. And it wouldn't feel so like off. And they call it like a sword. There's so much that was honest about it. The punch of that was just not it. And it was odd. It felt like kind of like slapstick. Yeah. It felt like it was a clip from back when the show was supposed to be darker. And it was supposed to have some more grown up, more adult jokes. Yeah. And instead, what that results in is a bunch of kids standing there waiting for a ghost to sweat. Like it. Yeah. Yeah. Just doesn't quite track all of these moments. This movie just keeps threading in these little warnings. There are these characters that like know too much. Like they know stuff they shouldn't know. And people are like acting off. And there's the sense that they're being watched. And there's this guy Luke. He's a local bad boy. He's especially suspicious because he's going between like flirting with Marnie and these weird vague threats. At one point, he calls himself a big cheese, which is not a move I would recommend upon approach. Like it didn't work. Wouldn't go there. Yeah. This is our second day to him. So I can, I feel like I can now say that I'm a big cheese. That should be impressive. It's now a safe place to say that. Yeah. But we made it here. You know, we earned it. You know, it's the payoff. You know, but when Marnie. She's around here. When Marnie rejects him, like any like burgeoning maladaptive misogynist should be rejected. He immediately channels this attraction into anger. It was like, wow, okay, really written now plainly for us there. Yeah, this is going to be important, by the way, because he knows some very powerful creatures, which I'm sure a lot of, a lot of folks are here and stuff like that on the dating apps. Yeah. Yeah. You haven't heard the last of me, you know, that kind of energy. It is a lot of good look. Like you've crossed me now. And it's like, whoa, do you know where your kids are? Yeah, she's like, oh, you know what? I don't. I know just where those little twirps went. Yeah, immediately. She's watching like infomars, like the world's worst infomercials and just like she was a candy that I do feel really like I relate to that because that is what I do. Went Leon, it goes to bed. And I'm like, oh my god, mom's never change, I guess. Yeah, candy. And the little little tiny kitchen TV. Yeah. Yeah. Love that for her. It's so good. The glow. That's the 90s glow too. Like the kitchen TV. I didn't even have one, but like I know what that and what that feels like. I know. It's magical. And speaking of a glow, we next find ourselves at Calibar's propaganda theater. I guess here, Gwen is here. And they end up having to confront this dark force, which we learn is Calibar later. And they lose, which was also surprising, I guess, watching it as a kid, because there's this moment of, oh, no, Calibar freezes Aggie and Gwen and they're stuck there staring at the screen eyes for her fix, which that's another like allegorical thing that we might get to. I don't know but like they're in a theater. Yeah. Propaganda that they're watching to brainwash them into something that they aren't these creatures from Halloween down and now Aggie and Gwen. It's very on the nose. Very on the nose. Very on the nose. And it is another like foundational 90s kids film convention, which is basically dismiss the adults, like remove the safety. Yeah, they're no longer, they're not here to help you anymore. Yeah, they are going to exit stage left and now you can't save you. Like you have to, you have to grow. We talked to DJ McKayle, who was the creator of are afraid of the dark on our show and he made a point to mention that where he was like really the beginning, the question every episode was how do we get rid of the parents? Like where do we put that? Sure. Wow. So that the kids can grow. Yeah, because the kids have to realize that they are resourceful that they have the main character. Yeah, they need to, you know, be well. Yeah. And I guess that's like an ancient trope Harry Potter even not that that's ancient, but I mean, you know, going back and back like Harry Potter, all the young adult. Well, also in this, they're always on their own. Yeah, I feel like at least in this movie, it also plays into by the end. It's not only do they feel more that they have autonomy and that they, you know, can be taken seriously, but at the end of Halloween town, the parents finally respect the children's opinions. And oh, you, I should not look at you as a little kid anymore. I can rely on you and your your own information. Yeah. Yeah, like I should respect you more. Like, yeah, there's this. Yeah, there's respect that gets earned like through these journeys. Like the hero's journey. It's the hero's journey, but like in a tiny little like familial way, you know, it's also funny because they also kind of dilute this moment. Like Aggie, whenever they're struck with this magic, Aggie says the words will be all right. It's just an evil spell that freezes us. We're not dead by the way. We're not just. She could have looked at the camera like that was for me. That was for me. Yeah, who's so scared and was like it's just pretend to be that really bad. We just look at yeah, we're just closing it on TV. It's not real. That's what I needed. It was really it was heavy handed in a way that most decoms. I don't feel like they were so much in that way, but it was also it became funny to me looking back at it. Well, I think early on because I think it was like one of the like first like five decoms out there. So I think they didn't have a real rule system. Yeah. I'm like. How far we can go. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that stayed a question mark. I feel like for a long time. Yeah. That's true of much of the media that we cover is like this was the first time they were doing a lot of this stuff. Yeah. They were kind of. There wasn't. Yeah, there was not a yardstick. There was not a ruler. They had to kind of make it up as they went on. And then like hope they didn't go too far. And then that's what we find often is that you kind of did. You put it might have turned out okay. Yeah. For like a lot of TV in that era, there wasn't really like the TV rating system yet. They actually invented that. I think they invented it for power rangers. Is that we talked about it. We talked about that in our Power Rangers episode. It was around that time. So there was nothing like really, they were just trusting these like kids networks, you know, kid friendly programming. They were just like, well, that's for kids. So that's why I feel like I got so traumatized because my parents wicked says it's for kids. Here you go. Same. That is pretty much could be the tagline of our whole show. Yeah. And I would be like what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, my ultra religious aunt thank God gave me a DVD of the goonies. Oh, I guess it was a VHS technically way back. But she had no idea what it was about. Like this has kids on the cover here. It's a bunch of little boys. It's more than the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how labyrinth was for me and my grandparents house was like this looks like fantasy. Kids. There's puppets in here. That's why it's David Bowie's crouch. Yeah. Emma again. Little did they know. God. God. Yeah. That was where your kids are. Do you know what they're watching on the Disney Channel? Because it's scary. And speaking of some of that, like I like also the implication we get Dylan Marney and Sophie. They're all now off to brew the witches brew on their own, right? And this is now like turning point where it's up to them. But there's this implication because Sophie keeps showing up as like the most witchy. Like she's just capable. She has the instinct and she she knows what she's doing even more so the Marney because like Marney doesn't remember the spell to like turn on the talisman. But Marney's like so in her head, you know, trying to do it. And I feel like Sophie is just like, oh, this old thing. Yeah. I wonder if it's because Sophie would one day be like the most powerful or if they were like hinting at that at the time, or if it was just because she was younger and more connected to that. And there it is. Yeah. That's that's the implication that I like is that she's more in touch with her powers because she's younger. And I think that that's a show that we see across a lot of things. Like she she hasn't she's she spent less time internalizing the world, which is telling her no or telling you can't or whatever like unwittingly having the unusual traits socialized out. You know, well, there's a line where Marney even tells her grandma like, oh, I'm no one special. And it's like, well, of course, if you're thinking that way, it's going to take some shifting of your thinking. But yeah, Sophie's kind of like, I also know like that's the one of the main reasons why they think children are able to have more experiences with the paranormal because they haven't been told that that's an imaginary friend yet, or they haven't started believing that yet. Yeah. Yeah. There's still open to the possibility. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They just don't have the all of the other experience and all of the other things that are telling them something else. They can just know what they feel like what they feel what they feel. There's third eye hasn't been gouged out. They're blind. That could be a whole topic in and of itself because we I you all talk about just different paranormal stuff on your show. I always get lost in the comment sections of like, my kid was two years old and was telling me that they used to be an airline pilot or like, oh, I get so like sucked into that stuff. Like, what do they know? What do they remember? Do they know so much more than we do? So they activate the talisman and they head for the final confrontation. This is time for the big body. And of course, Calibar is back this mayor that's kind of been skulking around the whole time. He's too charming, too smooth. He used to know when we get some glimpses into that. He has this like middle-distant gaze about her, which clearly has become a problem. He's been waiting years to give this monologue. You could tell by the top hat. He was ready to perform. So you had you had your whole life to like, decide whether or not to bring the top hat up there. And you would, no, no, that's going to really seal the beat. It's a top hat. And you went, I'm not even going to question that decision. Yeah, I'm just going to do it. That's like, why would I use who I am? Yep. Where else would I be? But here, it's not a good point. He actually went so hard. The actor did during these scenes that he lost his voice and like completely fucked up the production schedule. Like, they had to change the schedule. Because he yelled so much and he was like too good of a villain and he's like there's the wind machine And he's like you know being suspended and there's all this stuff. He's screaming for days on end But yeah, Calabar was out for blood Because he believes that Halloween town's creatures were unfairly marginalized by humans And they deserve to reclaim their world by force And eliminate the offending humans I agree that they shouldn't have been marginalized And I guess Aggie's whole thing was like they kind of started going at each other rather than it being Like a one you know kind of overpowering the other and the creatures that had the power to create a new world Just said, hey, we'll just go to that seems you know Relatively simple, but that's not how Calabar remembers it and I'm afraid that something that's coloring his memory or understanding of the situation Is that he is still hung up on Gwen choosing a human over him So this big power trip is basically just the work of jealousy And the masculinity it's like nothing changes. Yeah, you know, nothing Nothing you wonder this we even have to come up with a whimsical Answer to that it was just oh literally he got his got rejected by his crush or whatever holy like decades ago Like oh my god I was literally gonna say it's a binsel shit right there. Oh, and I just like quick side note because I'm the only one Who's gonna bring this up so sorry, but there is a weird um comparison here or similarity to the brave little toaster goes to Mars because Plot of that film is that all the appliances on Mars feel rejected by humanity and want to destroy humanity and take over for themselves And then the brave little toaster is like no humans are good and I'm like well, I wouldn't go that far. You're a toaster There are my toaster actually the toaster becomes the supreme leader. It's a whole thing Wow, they go they're like we're gonna blow up the earth and I'm like no wonder I was scared as a kid I'm like what do you mean the refrigerator's gonna blow me up like yeah to kill me I mean I'm thinking your whole kitchen like resents you It's the first brave little toaster gave you empathy for appliances. You're like oh no the poor that's right I'm oh no the air conditioner. That's right. So upset that he had a blanket panic attack and And that's why I died like yeah, you get all this empathy damaging that movie's just like no they actually want to hurt you So it's like a double-sided thing. Oh wow you really feel for them. Well, guess what they're gonna fuck you up And it's like oh my god Wow, it's really it was a one-two punch with those films because they rolled us into a false sense of security They said never mind. Talk about a life lesson man. They just wanted to test our how quickly they can manipulate us to feel Well, I hope they're fucking happy because I really haven't recovered. Yeah Now I'm still scared of toaster To this day me too. I'm still scared of a vacuum cleaner that he was so mean for no reason. Oh, he was in the air conditioner. Yeah, that was radio. That was like I'm also super super cool transatlantic radio. I'm so sorry But I was convinced the radio was the the first gay man I ever experienced. That was the sassyest Unnecessarily sassy man. I'd ever met in my life. He was sassy. I love it Okay, sorry. Oh, sorry. Did I derail us by talking about the brave little toaster talking to Mars? Together about brave little toaster and that makes my soul happy But Marnie tries to use the talisman and she fails the first time she gets knocked down There's this oh no all is lost Which we get a fake out like we often do and love it. It's like this And then she has this realization that feels very inevitable because magic is about more than spells and training It's about belief Believing in it Aggie says earlier in the film which I really like the way she described magic. Yes, she said magic is Knowing what you want and then letting yourself have it. She said it's really very simple You just want have to want something. Yeah, and let yourself have it and I just thought that was so profound And then when they brought it back, I was like, oh beautiful. I mean, which I feel like a lot of it now um I feel like in today's world a lot of magic is Manifestation work. Yeah, and I feel like that in based Whether or not that's because of Halloween town I feel like it's interesting that a lot of the kids who watch Halloween town grew up and those who are now involved in magic are like Oh, it's a manifestation is the whether you have a crush on Marney. I wanted to be Marney now. We're all doing witchcraft and that's the result That's where we landed. I mean, that's where it brought us and yeah, I personally don't want to be in words You did it Marney's like hey chocolate bar you better give the towels and back. You're in big trouble She's like now the not like using her powers as a 13 year old for good. This is the task that we need She rallies her family together even Dylan who stops citing science textbooks because he's had this whole Actually kind of yeah vibe for the whole time He realizes that he too is a warlock. He has some internalized hatred towards his own kind I yeah, I don't know what's going on there. Yeah. Yes. He's definitely been Been socialized in a way that makes him I think he also has little brother syndrome because I feel like my little brother And I've always bickered like that and whether he believe me or not he'd be like that's stupid to whatever I did And I think it was just kind of our to be concerned with siblings Yeah, he says at one point like Marney's running off and he like It's like a classic middle child thing because he's like it's always the trouble makers that can be attention or something like that Yeah, there's so much on that in the city. I had to admit to myself I saw myself in him a lot more than I thought because I am always a one who's like It's probably just because the thing is the window was open. Oh well It's probably and so like I'm like I'm more like him than I think I am like I want to be more like Marney But yeah, I did see myself and then when he got some magic powers at the end I was like oh that's so fine that he got to be part of it too It's great because I mean in all of us. There's a little bit of knowledge a little bit of Dylan like there's we've got that energy And I liked that they were calling it out like that was the yes They kept saying it out loud and when you first watch it like when I watched it back as a grownup I was like this is all really loud, you know, they're saying it really plainly But then I'm like this was for kids at a time when people weren't really talking like that out loud You know, we kind of take it for a granted now, you know Yeah, but that's there was it was a new a new voice that pop psychology night we talked about it in Jumanji where they're marginalizing this character because she has a therapist and she's doing all this work And she's like neurotic and panicked and whatever that was really the 90s picture of psychology Yeah, this is like the kids are psychoanalyzing the grown-ups which softens it and yes Yeah, if you're more likely to listen to it if it's another kid true right Helping you make sense of world. Yeah, for sure So in this moment they combine their power. They're humming. It's it's they really got the like meditation going on and all together They they their power in the talisman combine such that caliber is defeated the spell breaks and everything is good Everybody's restored money apologizes for being like an emotional 13-year-old with a point So, you know, I mean a apologize for maybe the way you said it not necessarily what you said. Yeah, in that case Gwen apologizes for hiding the truth and like underestimating Marnie and Aggie's like great. We're a cousin now Everything is awesome like can do no wrong and there's also this moment with Luke Who admits that he made bad choices for shallow reasons because he had agreed to like be caliber's minion in exchange for Improving his goblin looks. So he's a goblin that turned into So he's an insecure male with whatever he said earlier You have to find a man who is assured of himself He also was the voice of I should probably check that in my notes before I say it I don't know I'd have to look at my bigger group of notes, but he was the voice of Arnold and hey Arnold Yeah, this kid same kid and so when I found that out I was like so much I think he was the first Arnold That may be the second or a third I know lane Torin lane Torin was the first. Okay, and then he was the second Arnold after that Wow But yeah, so Marnie has this moment with him where she's like, you know, we get it like like he's done this It's it's relatable, honestly like he just wanted he's 13 and it's the man, but like wants to look better wants to impress and You know made made the wrong friends along the way You just want to be the big cheese just to be the big cheese Quest to be the big cheese and Marnie gives him a kiss on the cheek It does not turn him back into a prince because that's the only trope that we aren't doing today right right I do love that for us that would have been kind of a And then this crowd of like grateful cheering Halloween town citizens sees them off in the bus And Gwen asks Aggie to babysit on Thursday nights, which is her wave like asking Aggie to live with them And so they're gonna combine the worlds and Aggie like accepts this offer very quickly for somebody who is like uprooting her life Every 200 years she's been like a fixture in this town for 200 years and she's just like nah, I'm gonna go with the grandkids piece out I'll see you yeah different dimension. Yes, I guess that was um, it's own Trope of like oh well one of the parents that gave the grandparent in this case was Away and not paying any attention to the family and then the other one had to stay and like become the full-time parents Whereas now we're now at the end like oh, we've been reminded that family is the most important thing and We got to stick together. Yeah, there's like generational reconciliation like across three generations all at the same time Um, and they have that in Halloween town. Oh, that's not saying Yeah, that's yeah, that's my argument. Why would like Marney wouldn't want to live in Halloween town? Are you kidding? I'm actually finally discovering Halloween town and that your Grandma's like one of the most powerful people there and you just saved their asses Let's go home. Yeah, time for eighth grade tomorrow I'm coming queen every year for the rest of your yeah, she would be the most popular kid in the town if she stayed in Halloween town But no, yeah, she's gonna have to go back to the mortal world where nobody knows Nobody knows who she is at all - Wow. - But their bus stores off into the clouds, just like the car in Greece, and that's the end of the Halloween town. - Yeah. - Just like Greece, yeah. - But that's the thing that the movie lands on. It's a very disincentive, very pointed way of doing it, but not everything has to be either or. Like that's the takeaway. You don't have to reject where you come from to build a new life. You don't have to stay small, to stay safe. You don't have to be normal to belong. - You can sing and play basketball. You can sing and play basketball and you can do both. - It's your dream job. - Nobody's gonna punish you for doing both, except, you know, like at the school, but that's not your story. - I know someone will, but you just gotta get over it. - Yeah. - This movie is just such like a cozy way of saying that identity isn't something that you can bury without consequence. And if you know that there's something true about you that's bigger or stranger or more you, than what you've been allowed to explore in the past, you have to choose that at some point. And it's gonna pay off. - That's a great way to put it. - I love that takeaway. I wanna watch it again tonight. - I, one of my favorite things about it. I think Kimberly J. Brenn has talked about it on her TikTok or somewhere, but she did have, at some point I've heard it, where out of all the props that she kept, she said that she got to keep her like which dress. And that Debbie Reynolds also kept her witchy dress. And Debbie Reynolds used to answer the door for trick-or-treaters in her dress. And so then when she died, Kimberly J. Brenn started doing it in her dress. - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - Oh my God, that's amazing. - And also, I think Kimberly J. Brenn has an Etsy male? Like she like sells Halloween town Etsy stuff. - Oh, she also does cameos, I found out. - Who was? - Cameo. - She does cameos too. - Fun. - I was just gonna say, we need to talk to Kimberly J. Brenn. Like I need her opinions on all the time. - I know, I bet she has some very interesting insight. - Yeah, no, for sure. - Have you, you should also tonight, maybe Chrissine watched Halloween town too. - See now, now we're talking. - Call of bars revenge. - But she's in that one. - Is that the third one? - Call of bars revenge is the, I thought that was the second one. - Maybe it is. - I thought it was, yeah. - I want to say there are four and I want to say Halloween town high is the fourth one still. - Is it still Kimberly? - It's still Kimberly in Halloween town too. - Okay, I want to watch that. - I'll watch that. - Is that, and then I'll watch the original Brave Little toaster. - There you go. - Well, it's a fun fact for you though, Chrissine. The next one is, the other main character and it ends up being her future husband in real life. - That's right. - Oh, and I was just stalking them. - So they met on at Halloween town. - I didn't know that. Oh my gosh, there's so much beautiful lore here. I'm so happy. Thank you guys for introducing me such a beautiful, world cinematic universe. - Thank you for having us. Thank you for letting us. Thank you for letting us give a little taste of like what we do all the time. And thank you for your paranormal story that coincides with a little bit. - Yeah, what a weird coenky dick. - That was an evil original to lead you in. - But truly, thank you for coming on, but also like, it was very fun to talk about something that I love so much for my childhood, but in an adult way. Like you really brought some very deep, wonderful points of like, I would not sit here and think about myself. - I love it. - Thanks. - Well done. - It's very kind. I love the point about magic and I think that's even taken a step further 'cause it's like, figure out who you are and then let yourself be that person. And this movie is just such a great, like, I don't know, just does a great job with it. And to be able to look at it now, like in 2026 through this lens, all of the oppression, everything that's happening and recognize that this is the message that we were getting as kids in the 90s. And let's keep that in media. - And it still holds up. - Yeah. Very well. - It's also horrifying that the warning signs were always there then. - Yeah. - At least we listened, it seems. None of the important people listened. - At least for us. - Just us. - Hopefully it all just does. - Yeah. - Just us. - We're all in this together, you know? Just like Troy. - Yeah, just, I mean, that's-- - Just like Troy. - I hope that's the moral that you learn at the end of each of your episodes that every movie is basically Troy Bolton discovering he can do it at all. - For more often than not, that is the same way. - Just for yourself. - Yeah. - You can always tell your dad that it's his dream, not yours. - I do often. - But in song. - In song preferably. - Wow, thank you so much both for coming on. Can you give people a little teaser tag where they can find you and listen to your show? - Yeah, absolutely. - You want me to take a Christian? How do you feel? - Yeah, go ahead, you got this. - You're doing great. - You can find us at that's pretty dark podcast or on all of the podcast platforms. You can find us on Instagram at that's pretty dark podcast. We are part of Parapods now, which is an incredible place to be. We love that. All of these ideas, like all of this that we put into our show, all of the research, all the folklore, all the history, all the layers of everything. We knew that Parapods would be the right home for that because of everything that M and Christine and all of the incredible shows on Parapods are doing with their shows. It's all about community, finding community, like I am getting really especially extra cheesy now, but like we are all in this together. The thing that we say at that's pretty dark is you're never really alone. And it's sort of a spooky tone. But at the same time, it's us finding out that we weren't alone in all these things that we were thinking and feeling as kids, and that there is true magic and power in that when we can all come together as grown-ups. And hopefully do things better and differently. So yeah, find us, come check us out. Be with us. We would love to have you. And again, we both have just, I mean, for 10 years at this point, you guys have now you're in 10 years. Like, I remember driving to work, listening to, and that's why we drink, listening to each other. Both of you, like driving to my corporate job 10 years ago, telling Christian, like, "Oh, you should listen to this episode, they covered this thing." Like, we were literally listening to you guys in 2017. - Oh my God, that's crazy. - Oh, yeah. - And to be here now, like, I was panicking all day, just in a sense of like, this is almost de-realization. Like, where am I? What am I doing? - Don't dissociate. - Because I get to talk to Emma and Christine today. So yeah, we're thrilled we can't wait for more. And yeah. - I've told other people this, but I get to tell you guys now that I did listen to you on Kaelin's recommendation. But I was working on a movie and like, "Beluxy," and I just needed something new to like, get me through the month I was about to have. I believe, I don't, it wasn't during COVID, it was, I don't know when it was. I don't know. - I feel, I know I was listening pre-COVID. - Yeah, but I finally did listen to you guys, and I was like, I wanna be in the room doing what they're doing. I wanna hang out with them. - Oh, that's all we ever wanted. - Talk about the manifesting energy. - And then somewhere along the way, we were like, "Let's start a podcast." - Nice, I hear some in reality. That's so fucking cool. See, it's magic. What did she say? - I mean, it was like, if you first believe it, believe it in them. - All you have to do is want something and then let yourself have it. - Come on, sorry. You're wrong, it's wrong. I'm gonna fucking cry. - That's real, it's real. - I'm gonna have a panic attack. - Yeah, thank you all so much. - Thank you for what you built and maintained. Thank you for what you do every day. 'Cause you were bringing like joy to my, you know, corporate job and commute. I know you're doing that for so many other people and yeah. - Well, it wasn't all an effort to do it for ourselves and then we were so excited that anybody else wanted to be a part of it. So yeah. - And that's exactly how we felt. - We just have to talk about this. - We'll see if anybody wants to listen and I can't believe that you all want to listen. - Yes! - And more so now I want to go listen to that. I'm gonna watch Brave Little Toaster and then listen to the episode to make sure I didn't miss any huge, heavy things. - It's real heavy. - Yeah, I think I'm just existential dread straight up. - I think it's gonna open a lot of conversations with my therapist, you know. - That's what we're here for. This is the whole show. - I love that. - Thank you. - I think both for coming. You said it's very sweet things, but no, you have a wonderful show. I hope everyone goes and listens to it. - Yes, please. - This was definitely like a very great taste into what you guys do. - Yes. - Absolutely. - And we look forward we're gonna have you all on our show as well. - Yes. - We're not sure when and how it's all coming out. - Yeah. - It was gonna be about my-- - Speaking of talking to your therapist. - It's gonna be about my trauma, watching the ring when I was far too young as in my own opinion. I was scared of Halloween town and then I watched the ring. So just to give you an idea of like how bad that went for me psychically, psychologically. Yeah, and we're gonna talk about that. But now I'm like, oh my god, I have so many fucking movies that whenever anybody wants to talk about, I'm ready to hop on the show. And yeah, part of it. - Part two of the process. - We're very fun to hear the two of you talk about some really horrific things. I mean, Caitlin and I were very lucky that we got to talk about a haunted house and then witches. But it sounds like, sorry, Christine, and then-- - Yeah, you don't have the heavy hitting. - Yeah, she turned it into something more heavy hitting. - Oh, boy. - It's definitely gonna be heavier and darker than we usually go, I think. 'Cause it's like-- - The ring. - Why did I say that? - I don't know. - It's a good word. But hey, it does fit. - It's perfect, because it's a haunted VHS tape. - Yeah, and nothing's going as nostalgic than that. - Good point. - It works for both the first shows very well. - It's nostalgic, it's nostalgic. I can't wait. - Well, thank you all for coming on and we'll see you on the other half of our crossover. - We'll see you on that flip side. We can't wait. - Thanks again. - Thank you. - Yeah. - You're never really alone. - Oh. - You're never really alone.