E481 Pizza Payments and Original Coffee Thoughts

Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park. I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park, luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare, he ends up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first-time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog in a moment like that. You really are thankful that you have your pet insurance. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans, that can fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quirks, like if he enjoys stepping on bees and horrifying their parents. Because let's be honest, that bills can add up fast. All we ever do at the dog park is talk about how expensive our dogs are. This will help you in the long run. ASPCA Pet Health Insurance has been around for almost 30 years and has covered over a million pets. And when it's time to submit a claim, it's easy. Just use their app and receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account. So you can get back to focusing on what really matters. Your pet, my little hankies, and to explore coverage, visit ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. That's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. One more time again, that's ASPCA Pet Insurance.com/drink. This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. I've told you guys before that I got Allison. Well, I tried to surprise Allison with this cobblestone fireplace for the house. And I got it from Wayfair. It's very, very cute, very witchy, very spooky. I feel like underneath the right thick ceiling beams, real or fake, it would look incredible. And by the way, those beams are also on Wayfair. But now it has been moved into what will be the spook easy of our house. And I'm not allowed to see what they're doing in their Allison and her parents have been working on that a day in and day out. And I know that the fireplace has become like the centerpiece that they're working the whole thing around. So I'm very excited to see how it turns out. Wish me luck. I'm hoping it's going to look as spooky as promised. I will take pictures when I finally can see what's going on. All I know is that that fireplace became the focal point of the entire room. So if you would like your own focal point, whether that's a fireplace or a couch or a table or whatever your thing is, you can head over to Wayfair and transform your space with pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase. And head to Wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's w-a-y-f-a-r.com. Wayfair every style, every home. Hello, everyone. Welcome to it. That's why we drink. We are here today to cover some spooky tales. And I can't wait to do it. My name is Christina. I'm here with my co-host, the M Shultz. Oh, my. How could you get it? Not going to the in front of your name. The X teen because you know, there's I don't know. I'm just it feels a little bit like presumptuous. You got to own it though. You're going to be like, it's me, the X teen. That sound even when you said it, it didn't sound very like confident. You know, it just maybe doesn't roll the same way the M does. You know, but every time someone sees the M right now, it looks like the M. And I do think I do think that but your pronouns are they them. So it does kind of work. It is kind of like it sort of feels like you're doing the thing where you put like extra letters at the end because someone else took your name. Oh, I love that. No, unfortunately, I'm just it just looks poorly spelled. Well, try being one time I tried to make. Oh, my God. What was it? It was something very embarrassing. It was back in the day. I think I made Geo's account. And it said something like Geo, it was like Geo love socks. They just something about it ended up looking like not so it looked a little iffy. It looked a little iffy. And I just remember everyone going Christine with love. Like what is this really? I don't remember that. Well, I think it was literally before I even knew you. Like that's how quickly it came and went. But I will live with that shame for the rest of my life of going, okay, I got to look at every user name I make from the eyes of someone who's never read it before. Because it really like that can throw you off big time. I thank you for telling me. Now, maybe I should change the M show after all this time. No, no, no, no. Yours doesn't look bad. That's why I'm just saying like I'm going to stick with whatever the hell I've got going because I'm afraid to even venture too far. You're very lucky to have an ex though because that really makes it visually aesthetically fine no matter what is what else is going on. You know, it's funny because then my brother became zandy. And it was like, Oh, weird. Like our parents. Like we just kind of both came up with we suddenly have Z name. You both seem to be so bad. Oh, X is. But then my sister's name is Ziska. So she is the Z. And it's like, what's happening with our family? You guys really rocked it with the XXZ. Thanks so much. Yeah. I, um, why do you drink this week? Well, first of all, I have this new tradition where it's my McDonald's coffee. And what I do is that, um, uncertain, well, like once a month, um, Leona gets her happy meal. And I'm usually like a sometimes I get a snack wrap situation or something. But, um, my new, my new tradition is in my new habit. And it's more of a bad habit than an actual tradition. I guess today the first of the tradition or it's the first, it's the first. It's the second. It's the second. Okay. Got it. Two times. Does a pattern make perhaps, uh, I buy it the night before with like very little ice. Take a few sipies, put it in the fridge next morning. Got a nice big vanilla ice latte, add some ice. You got sweet treat from past you. I'm loving it. And also I did. That's right. And also. Yeah. I just realized. But you said I'm loving it. And did you mean it for McDonald's? I did. I did. That part was intentional. I know it didn't seem it, but actually I just realized last night and last Monday night. I could not sleep. I was up to like two thirty three in the morning. And it's sort of now kind of all screeching to a big train crash in my head of. Hey, maybe don't like. Maybe this shouldn't be a tradition. Third of that thing before bed, pretending like you bought it for tomorrow, but it's nine o'clock in the night. Interesting. I did. We did watch in real time. You have an original thought. Right. You were speaking to me and I was like, I'm actually not present. Hold on. It's not clear. Everyone would go watch that if you can. If you have YouTube accessible because it was I was just like. Should we stop make is going to make the one where it's like the spinny wheel over my head where it's like. Oh, she's gross. Oops. I really kept. I was like, you'll delete control out to me. Sometimes you ever do that. Sometimes I do control Z. And then I'm like, wait, I'm in life. Oh, yeah. Like I like type it. No. I thought you were agreeing with me. So I kept going. I think more like I sit here and think, I wish I could take that back. Oh, that's kind of just as far as I go in real time. You know, but it always hits me too late that I'm not on a computer. I mean, I'm sort of on a computer, but control Z. I haven't found like the mother load cheat code, the Rosebud cheat code that controls the none of it works in real life. I'm waiting for the Rosebud cheat code. That's a please. She got me far in life and fake life. So I'm really shooting for real life now. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you have a tradition that will be dying today, I guess. Yeah, that was a really long standing and fun tradition that happened twice. And I am better for it, I think. Thank you so much for watching that kind of happen in real time. Do you have a reason why you drink? I guess that might be it, huh? Oh, sure. Yeah. And maybe you already answered that night. No, no, no. I better did stick. I don't know. I was extremely excited about my new pattern. Now I'm extremely unexcited about my new tradition. So that's that. I don't really have any other reasons. I mean, I've got the window open. It's like a beautiful breezy day last night. It rained and I had the windows up the screen open. And I did that thing where I pretended like I was in a safe place with my blankie. I mean, I wasn't a safe place to be there, but I. That I can relate to. You know, the mental place where you're like, oh, I go back to like a place that feels cozy in my mind. And then. Oh, absolutely. I go there every five minutes. And then I heard the sound and I went, what could that be? And I thought, surely it's not my problem. The sound again. And you'll recall I had had a third of my McDonald's vanilla ice coffee about two hours. Nope. Five hours earlier. Oh, my God. At this point. And I heard this commotion. And it was only about five feet from my bed. So I really just had to turn on my flashlight and look. And wouldn't you know it? There was a thunderstorm. A comment in the window. And there was just just just water everywhere and just do angry cats. I am sorry. I also, I have to tell you though, part of me is like, God, I really wish I could have that experience. I gotta say it was an extremely wonderful experience. And I got a giant towel beach towel. Like put it on the ground, made sure the dog bed they were all sleeping in was dry. You know, like this gust of wind came in sideways is what had happened. Yeah. And they just flashed and startled and everybody just went crazy. And then I just threw a giant towel down and said, that's enough for everyone. Good night. So they said, what happened? I said nothing. There's like, there's those YouTube videos where you can watch and like listen to rain in a certain air environment. And on a train on a train last night I was listening in an RV. Like I was out in the woods by myself. Oh, nice. And other times I'm on a boat in its raining. Other times I'm in a forest. I mean, it's that I always pick a new thing. Sometimes I'm in space and it's raining and then that really makes no sense, but I don't question it. Wow. And I feel like a lot of people do that just for the vibes momentarily, but as someone who lives in L.A. and it never rains, it really is the only way I get my rain experience. I get it. I really, I hold them like near and dear and I've got a very curated playlist. And I'm so jealous and happy for you at the same time. What's the happy jealousy? Compersion. Is that word? I didn't know that. Yeah. That's nice. It hasn't explained to me that way where it's like, oh, you're jealous in a happy way and you don't want to take, but it's, but you are so little. You're not necessarily like coveting it. Like you want to take it away from me. Like no hard feelings, but I do envy that. And I get it because it really is a special thing and having lived in L.A. I know how it's like bizarre when you're like deprived of weather for a while. And then all of a sudden things are green and like wet and you're like, ah, what's happening. And I will say too, like I've learned about myself sensory wise and I'm very, very sensitive to smell. And like smell is one of those things that like really helps me ground and calm and whatever. And growing up, I was never allowed to have anything like scented in the house because of reasons I changed every year. My grains, chemicals, fires, I don't know. There was always a reason I wasn't allowed to have anything like scented. And so now I'm like finally diving into that like tiptoeing and I realize like with the rain, I love to have it open because you can smell the rain and I'm like, oh my God, it's a sensory experience like on every level. It's really soothing. And I've started just like taking advantage of that, open the windows, you know, just enjoy it. But another fancy word, petrocore. Oh, I love that. A smell of rain. That's right. That's right. Let me backtrack real quick. I think because I just, I looked it up because I was like, it's a smell of rain on concrete, isn't it? I don't know. There's just the, I thought it was the smell of oncoming rain. Mid I'm just bad fucking words. I don't know. Oh, oh, yeah. It's like the ozones. Wait, no. That's like the ozones. Also, I just looked up the word compersion and apparently it's the opposite of jealousy where it's no jealousy only pure happiness for you. So I don't actually feel that. I was going to say I don't know for you when I told you. Oh, you know, just there's definitely jealousy there. Petrocore is the earthy sweet set. Oh, yeah. So when rain hits soil is what it is, sorry. So it's like when it like kind of hits, oh, and it comes from the word stone, that's why I thought that because petro, like petro, like stone. So it sort of like makes the smell in the air. Oh, it's so nice. Anyway. You're really like about myself is that I do know that there are words out there that exist, but I just don't always know what they mean. That was two in a row. I kind of have new. Which ones? You knew what that one. You brought it up. You brought both of them. Yeah, by no compersion exists. And then I. So what is the competition? I don't understand. What does it mean? You teach me. It's just like, oh, like so happy and overjoyed for somebody without any jealousy. So it's not. Okay. Oh, okay. So there's probably not enough. So there's not a nice word maybe for what you're saying. Yeah. I'm in the middle. There must be a German word because you know, they have shodden for it and all that. Like there must be one. If there is a word for the for compersion and jealousy mixed together where I am so happy for you and don't want to take from you, however, I wish it was my experience, that's how I feel. I think that's kind of what jealousy is though. I guess so. But I feel like not necessarily happy for the other person. That's what it's what jealousy should look like. Agreed. Maybe because jealousy is a sign that there's something that you feel like you're not fulfilling yourself, right? So it's like, I mean, not with rain, right? Okay. Maybe. But like, you know, if you're like jealous of somebody's success, you're like, oh, that's something in me. I feel like I want to be able to express. Yeah. Or you feel like you can do that, but you're not doing, you know, something like that. So I feel like that does sort of fit, but you've got your rain sounds, and I think that's a very, um, it's enough for now, nice approach to it. Oh, yeah. Do you like my shirt? What does it say? Murder. Oh, that's fun. It says murder. It has three crows on top. And then it's presumably, I think I like to think he's playing dead because that feels like something a crow would do. Sure. But I have murder. I have, um, I was going to say, I think I have a very similar shirt and my mother got this off. I think the TikTok shop. So if that's where you encounter it, I got it for Christmas. And she said, oh, why is it so short? It's for babies. And I said, it's a crop top. And she said, well, I didn't know that when I bought it, now it's going to show your belly. And I said, okay, we've got to have some conversation. So anyway, where did you find it? Or where did you get it? I don't know. That's why I paused. I was like, I think I know that I couldn't tell you where I got it from. I bet you it's on TikTok shop, making the rounds. I bet you. She's a, she's a thirsty little hoe that TikTok shop. And she gets me every time she likes to lure me in. And then I said, no, no, no, no, not here. Not today. Don't do this right. Not like this. Not about my boobs. Leave my boobs out of this. Once I start looking for a bra, it's like game over every three fucking swipes that somebody's boobs in my face. And I'm like, okay, like I get it, but it's not in the same sort of like fun way. It's more like look at these and buy some wire. Yeah. Yeah, buy something. Oh, startling. Okay. Yeah, drink. I drink because because it's not raining, because it's not raining, I'm always raining for that. But it does rain. I'll be drinking for that. Two days from now is Hanky's got you day. Are you serious? A year? That can't be right. It's the truth. Hanky's, you know, come here. Come here. Wow, my heart. Oh, my God. I can't even stand it. Are you kidding me right now? We didn't like you, come here. And it's. Can you come up? Uh oh. Yeah. Come on, puppy. So everyone gets a nice look at a happily adopted baby boy. Oh, where'd everybody go? You just froze all of a sudden. It was like your computer bumped and then it just like froze. Oh, well, I don't know what happened. I assumed like the ethernet came out or something, but I guess not. No, we're all good. I was like the second I bring my dog up here really. No, no, it was crazy. It was like, I thought he like hit a button. And I thought you were going to come on and say you'll never believe what Hank did. I didn't realize I was also like frozen. No, everyone went away. And here he is. Hanky. Well, I know why. It's carmen. As you said, the last time you were here, we didn't like you. And I would say, uh, not we. You. Can you say hello? Hi, chicken. He's a baby. Are you a baby boy, too? Wow. Are you shy? Are you scared? It's okay. Anyway, that's him. He's still alive, everybody. Perfect. He's a sweet, gentle man. He's not used to be. And now you are literally perfect. He. So it's been a full year and no wrong. It's been a real journey. And so. Yeah. How's the journey? Tell me everything. One year. When you're after getting to you, I realized I'd realized a lot sooner that I had made a huge mistake. But by a year, I fucking figured my shit out. But like woof. I made a huge mistake. And then I went never again, but I was also extremely poor. And I was also working 13 hour days, and I was also spending any money I did make on doggy daycare. And then I had to take a loan out because I had to pay for my dog's daycare. And then I thought, I've really, really gotten it. So you did it in a much healthier way where you had a home. You had at least some lawn. I didn't even have a fucking balcony. You had like a more safer home for a pup to come to. Well, thank you. I am. I'm just, I'm thankful that he's thriving. He's such a perfect gentleman. I would die for him. He's a very good boy. I, um, yeah, when we first got him, and thank you for mentioning the lawn because I actively told us, and we were never allowed to adopt any animal in a silly had a yard. So, um, so thank you because that was an intentional decision. But no, he was, um, I've been telling everyone at the dog park that his goth day's coming up and everyone there has now known me for a year. And they're like, Oh, remember when he used to come here and beg people at the park to take him away. Because it's like your goth today. It's, yeah. I was a sticker at my local bookstore called that says, who saved, who rescued who, and then underneath it says, I rescued them. They would die without me. Yeah. And I was like, thank you. Someone had to say it. Well, uh, he used to have this like neon orange bandana that would say, like, please adopt me. I'm a foster. And I would just go to people at the dog park and be like, Oh, do you need another toy? We stick around. And, uh, as everybody knows, uh, so what, okay, so everyone knows, everyone in the comments very quickly said, like, I don't know why you're even doing that. We all know he's going to end up with you. Right. Right. And I knew it already because I just, I knew you would have a dog named Hank. I didn't know that I knew it. But when you said his name, tank, I went, Oh, shit, that's your dog. And then I was like, but I can't say that because that's going to just get muddy the waters. I don't want to get involved. And then, and I didn't want to pressure you to get a dog. You know, I was like, that's not my, as someone who experienced a really stupid way of getting a dog. I didn't want to like pressure anyone else, but then, but then I mean, it just was fate. I think it was meant to be. Well, thank you. I don't think you did it in a stupid way, but I, I do know what you mean. It was, we were definitely younger and didn't know what we were doing. But also you are, I know you were struggling at your job. It was sort of like I put every ounce of everything I had into this dog to, to my own expense and my own like, like serious detriment. And then I realized like, Oh, the dog is very like loved and taken care of, but like I've lost my job and like all these other things because I was like too invested in the dog. It was very unhealthy. Hey, maybe I'll do that for like another insane podcast that I'll be on someday. But for now, I'm just like, it is so crazy to me that it's been a year and what is it like now to be a dog owner? Wait, what would you tell yourself, I'm in the terrible interviewer, what would you tell yourself a year, like what would you tell your past self like hang on buckle up? Yeah, I don't know, I, you'll, you'll figure it out. I don't know. You're on your own. I really, I mean, I was, I was not in a good, a good place when I first got him. I was really overwhelmed and I was resentful for the exact reasons why I, why I feel about having kids and all stuff like that. I was like, I love being selfish with my time and going and doing stuff and all of a sudden I had this hyperactive puppy that like couldn't be left alone for a certain amount of time. So I was very much in a, I was not happy with him. I thought he was very cute and like I didn't mind him like living here until he found another place. But once I got attached to him, I forget what the exact moment was, but there was a moment where like we locked eyes the right way for the first time and I went, all right, I can tell you're going to be here for that. It's so funny like I'm thinking I had such an opposite, whoa, I'm having a moment because I just realized like when I got geo, there was like no, like the unhinged emotional response which now I've worked on through a lot of CBTSD therapy, but I didn't realize at the time but like my reaction was so like unhinged and like I had, there was no way I was not, like not getting the dog and it's so interesting that like, and then so then I turned my whole life around to like make the, to make a life for the dog, but it's so funny that like your version was much healthier arguably of like, hey, I don't know if I'm ready for a dog yet and then it took time for you to bond. Meanwhile, I saw a little, like a literal tiny ass thumbnail of geo and we were looking at other dogs on some website and I saw this thumbnail and I went, that's him. There he is. That's crazy. And he clicked on the wrong dog and I went, go back, that's not the right. And he's like, this one and I was like, no. And I said, click on that one and he was his derpy little thing. Oh my God. But I was like, that's it. I, there's no, and I was like, this is probably not a great idea. Everybody in my life said, please, actually I didn't tell anyone in my life because I knew they would say this is a terrible idea. There was no part of my choice that was like good, like like, like ready to be, except that I was like, I'm in love with this dog. So it's almost a candidate experience for someone in their early 20s to be like, I'm going to get it. And it didn't hit me until recently that it was that because like, it hit me recently, like, wow, that was an extremely like pivotal, turbulent and like emotional time. And I feel like that just occurred to me. So you talking about God today and like how it. And think about it. Geo's 10 now and like you knew at his first birthday. So like now you having your dog for one year, I just all feels very full circle. And I'm just, I'm in my feels as the millennials used to say, I, it's, it took a long time, but I, I very much, that he's now my best friend. And I can't imagine hanging out with anybody else all the time, but there was that adjustment period. We all know I hate the adjustment period. Yeah, we all know famously you hate being inconvenienced and being adjusted in any way aside from a chiropractor. Not only, not only being inconvenienced, but the inconvenience is now you will forever be inconvenienced. That was a tough one for me. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, not forever. See, and that's the thing with dogs and, and human dogs, which I call babies, was what I call babies. Because it's like, oh, you either get a dog and it's like, of course, there's the emotional aspect of like I, I will presumably lose you, you know, someday, but then with a baby, it's like, oh, you know, this is a fucking lifetime commitment. You are a convenience forever. Yeah. Well, he's a, I hope he's around for, for quite some time, but I, it's been quite a journey and everyone at the dog park has been reminding me of that. So, um, I heard that he's like kind of like part parrot, and I think they live to 90. So I think you're okay. Yeah. No, very happy to not have a parrot, um, but it's my, it's dog as part paris. So he's like, he's going to live to like at least 90. I like how he had different takes where I was like, I love him, but I 90 years ago, I'm not going to wish a bird, a bird upon you. That talk about being inconvenience. That's not what I'm sorry to say. Uh, anyway, I'm drinking for little hankies. And then next month, this is B day. So that's exciting. Wow. This is a big month. Big month. So that's why I drink. And then I have something for us for Yappy Hour, which I'll tell you about later. Exciting. Okay. Great. This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. The world is full of reasons might I say to drink, okay? Things that just like are low stakes, but they feel humongous, okay? Like Wi-Fi, um, going out mid podcast, you could get angry, okay? You could get angry. But don't get angry. Get Orchard. Yeah. Their crisp apple is the leading style. It genuinely tastes like biting into a fresh apple. It's crisp, bold, refreshing, not too sweet, and it's gluten free and made through fermentation, fun facts. I had a game night recently and I brought, I was like, the housewife with a tray. And I was like, oh, hello, everyone. It was really just in my hoodie pocket. I had a bunch of Angry Orchards and everyone was like, oh, these are my favorite. And I was like, oh, really? No big deal. I have made some friends at the dog park by bringing some angry Orchard their way. Just a little bruski, you know? I'm just saying they brought it home. I got tax later in they were very thankful. See? Don't get angry. Get Orchard. Near you. Visit angryorchard.com and use the cider locator to find angry Orchard near you. Angry Orchard Cider Company LLC, Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. Please drink responsibly. Now when I'm like looking for something even for my home, that's how this is, that's how deep this has become and this thing, this relationship I have with Quince. I have recently, okay, I know I've talked about their, their linen items before. Yeah, it is just next level. It's just next level. It's crazy town. I just can't stand it. And I've had it for years. It's so lovely. I've been forcing them upon Allison. I got Allison. They're 100% European linen short sleeve shirts. I remember being skeptical when I first heard about Quince years ago just because I was like, what do you mean you sell like elevated classics, but like super affordable, surely they'll fall apart. It has been years. I've had that first sweater I got from Quince since then. I still wear it almost weekly. So thank you, Quince, because she was loving her little pants. They're again, they're lightweight linen pants. They've got dresses. They've got tops. They're effortless, breathable, and easy to wear and repeat over and over. I hope she wears, which she was wearing this weekend all the time. She looked so good. I was so, I was so excited for her. Refresh your every day with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com/drink for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/drink for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com/drink. Okay. Uh, thirsty little rats, this is your minor drinks of water, and also take your meds, because I do not do that. So we're all going to take our meds together at 1, 2, 3. Excellent. Have I said this before? Do you know who's taught me to swallow pills? Who? Allison. Really? In college. Oh, that's fun. What, how did she teach you? She was like, what I do is I take a sip of water first, and then I, I don't know. We just had, we tried different methods, and she helped me get comfortable with it, swallowing pills, because I was like really, like needles and anything medical, which now, actually next week, I'll talk, maybe talk about Lyona's current dentist situation, it's, it's like not fun. Um, but all that to say, like, she, I was so embarrassed in college, because I had to take Tylenol or something. I was like, I can't, like swallow it. And she's the reason. I just couldn't, I was so freaked out about like swallowing something that, like, whole, I think, like I still had this idea, and I was like, a kid that, like, and then I would have this like gag reflex and like, you know, and then they would like make you practice with M&Ms. And I was like, I don't want to swallow an M&M whole, like everything in my body is like, don't do that. So it, I just really struggled with swallowing pills. And Allison taught me how and she like, walked me through it and it was just so corny, but anyway. No, my, my mom taught me what she found me on the, on the phone. The floor of the bathroom, that time I took too much percussive, but not by mistake. So you know, for her, it was, she really probably didn't, she lost the fucking, well, she kind of accidentally created a monster if you're seeing what I'm saying. No, didn't. You locked it. Yeah, I locked it. No, no. Sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to say my, my mom taught me when I was really little, because I think she took one look at me. I was like, you'll be taking pills. You need, you'll need a pill case someday. And so we used to play a game when I was like, Leona is like, a game, like, can you swallow this pee? Can you swallow a piece of corn? Can you? Oh, jeez. I know. In hindsight it was certainly a joke. Are you going to choke? Yeah. But she was like, if I teach you early, maybe, maybe it'll stick. And it did stick for me. I can't speak for anyone else. I mean, I gotta be honest. Like, I, Leona won't even take a vitamin, a gummy vitamin. Like, I mean, we, she does now, which is literally one of our sponsors, so I'm not going to get into that right now. But it's, I can't be, I'm sure. It's a real godsend. But like, she has tried other ones that she will not eat. Like she, if she has any glimpse of like medicinal, adjacent, that's why I drink water. I can't stand and I'll never understand and I don't want to. The people who can put just a dry fucking pill in their mouth and then drink it down. I have to. And Alice and go forth was the one who said, you don't have to do it that way and it changed my life. No, I always take a sip and then I just drop the kids at the pool. That's right. That's right. And Alice and taught me that. And before she didn't even say drop the kids in the pool before they even. and hit the back. I can't even tell. I just go, nope. - Yeah, they're in the whirlpool at that point. - Yes, that's exactly right. Well, I didn't know that. I'll tell Allison, you and the pills say hi. - Oh, she'll say not again. - I did not know that. That's a fun track, Christine. - Yeah, okay, good. I didn't know if that was one thing that I brought up all the time or never. You know, how sometimes like, I feel like I say something over and over and then. - I don't know, because sometimes you say, oh, you know, I'm obsessed with the Grinch and I go. - That's what I mean. That's exactly the example. Like sometimes I'm like, I talk about it all the time and everyone is like, you literally don't. And I'm like-- - Literally, I never heard it. - No. (laughing) - Okay, go on. - No, you're good. Oh, for a second, I was like, what should we talk about? I'm so sorry. - It was about to say, where are we at? Yeah, Piammer, where are we? I'm so lost. I couldn't even find, like, my own ass right now. I don't think that's the same. - Okay, so I obviously have a story for you today. - And it is a sanatorium. - Obviously, yeah. - And this is a Canadian sanatorium. This is the Tronquille sanatorium. - Woo! - Which is spelled like French tranquil. - Whoa, spooky. - So in 1907, it was built originally for to Birke. Loose his patience, of course. I feel like that's what all sanatorium is. - Yeah. - Now, there's a difference between sanatorium, right? And sanatorium. - It's called the sanatorium. - No, but what I mean is I think a sanatorium is, like mentally, like mental illness, and I think a sanatorium. - Or, I'm looking at it up, no worrying. - 'Cause san, wait. - I'm not, I don't know, I got you. They're used interchangeably to make a facility for treating illness. - Oh, okay. Then maybe I don't know why I think of, why some people think of, like, some, yeah. - Well, sometimes distinguished sanatorium is focused on active medical treatment and sanatorium on health spa-like recuperation. They're often used synonymously. - Oh, okay. - Not what I was expecting. - Yeah, we heard. All right. - Sure. All right. Well, I guess you were right. And Ron. - That honestly fits. Thanks. - You're welcome. I feel like we've had that conversation before and did really get a flange out answer either. - Yeah, yeah. - So the Trump-Keele Sanatorium, it was built in 1907 for tuberculosis patients and it was built by the British Columbia anti-t tuberculosis society. - We are so anti-t tuberculosis. Like not to, like, make, you know, a huge commotion and not to kind of like- - Not to make you look like your pro tuberculosis? - Right, but like, to give a really hot take, I'm super anti. - Well, they were obviously active in awareness and prevention of tuberculosis and they ended up leasing out 2,000 acres and bought 600 acres, two separate occasions. They ended up with several thousand acres to build this hospital. And the original 600 that they bought would be about $2 million today. - Oh, okay. - The amount of acreage that they bought. - Again, it's a good amount of land. - Good amount. The land that they bought already had buildings on it, basically in the area that they picked, there was two ranchers that lived in the area and they kind of controlled all the land. And over time, they ended up buying up all their land. It just person by person, I guess. But when they bought up the land, it already had buildings because those people lived there with their families. - Oh, I see. - They agreed that they would use those buildings as makeshift hospitals while the actual was being built. - Okay, okay. - Fun fact, the original hospital was in random buildings. The facility ended up being in an area called Camloops, British Columbia. And that's because the climate there was top tier for tuberculosis patients. And it was very isolated. So patients wouldn't infect anybody else. I say it was built near Camloops because I think originally they were looking at Camloops specifically, but the locals who lived there were freaked out that they might catch tuberculosis. And so they made an agreement with this anti-t tuberculosis society that you could come to our area and build out your hospital, but you have to be a certain distance away from us so we don't feel like we're gonna catch it. And so it ended up being just over 10 kilometers away from the town. - Wow. - That's okay. The number that you're reading on. - Interesting. - In the first few years, the sanatorium had about 50 patients and 15 staff but by the 1950s or 50 years later, they had over 600 patients and staff there full time. And this was possible because the hospital did the classic thing that all the tuberculosis wards at the time, they developed their own self-sustaining community. - Oh, I ve. I mean, it's like, you just can't escape it. It's all over these utopian deutopias, you know? - I know. And the hospital itself ended up kind of getting, I don't wanna say an expansion 'cause the hospital itself didn't grow but a town grew around the hospital because since all these nurses and doctors lived in a quarantine area, they couldn't go home once they got employed here. - Oh my lord. - So they ended up building their own town around the hospital. - Oh my god, imagine being those original people like, I'm glad we put you guys 10 kilometers away 'cause now you have an entire village happening over there, you know? - You know what? They must have felt so validated being like, so you would have been seeping into our community, okay, and we would have come over. - Yeah. - The area around the hospital ended up growing into 40 additional buildings, four of them were more hospitals. The rest of the 40 buildings were cottages for the hospital staff, they were barns, they were kitchens, they were laundry facilities, they had their own gym and auditorium, a firehouse, a school. It was essentially a neighborhood built out a necessity for the people who no longer could leave. I imagine during the tuberculosis pandemic that the doctors and nursing staff were like, it was like getting shipped off to war. It's like, well, I can't come back. - Right, I mean, rising up COVID, right? - Yeah. - Like having to sleep in separate parts of buildings and houses and yeah. - Or being like quarantine and decontaminated and all this before you can even see other people. Yeah, it just feels like well, I'm gonna be over here. I don't know when I'll come back here. I don't know if I'll get sick, I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's very similar to the most recent pandemic, huh? - Wouldn't you know it? - The pandemic's feel like there's a through line. - Got to remember that episode. Like people kept referencing where we would like joke about quarantine, there was like this one episode where we joked like for the entire episode about like how silly quarantines were and then like it got brought up years later. Sorry, the pandemic. And I literally, until now have not set it out loud 'cause I was like, I can't even begin to think about that. But it does make me laugh a little bit that we were like, imagine a quarantine. - It makes sense. - It makes such a moron, so you play it back. - You know, in our defense, what were the odds? - No, like you would never have met. Like nobody said anything when it first released, obviously, and then like in 2020, it was like, wait a minute, that's like really didn't age well. - It horrifies me what else we've said that's not gonna age well. - I know, I know, good point, good point. - So anyway, this hospital ends up growing into its own little town with the hospital at its center for the, for all the people who work there. Amongst all these towns, they also had tunnels underneath each of these buildings. They had tunnels underneath all the buildings, so that way they could transport goods to and from the hospital or to and from the stores, and they ended up also using it to bring the bodies back and forth once they were died. And if that was inevitable, I think. - And the classic sanatorium thing that has tunnels underground to move bodies around. - So that it's like not upsetting the other patients and stuff, yeah. - To boost morale so that they didn't think they were next to justice. - Creepy. - So the new town ended up being named Tronquille, which is how we ends up, or because the sanatorium was Tronquille sanatorium. So everything just kind of ends it up becoming, I see. - Tronquille. There's also a Tronquille river. Anyway, so fun fact, by the way, for a short while, the hospital was actually named the King Edward Memorial Sanatorium because King Edward had just died, I guess. They were like, we know the perfect thing to honor him. - And apparently everyone out there was doing the exact same thing. - And so whatever. I guess people do that, like, name things after, yeah, sure. - Yeah, I don't know what you have. - Important dead people get to be hospitals, I guess, that does track, I guess. - I guess so. I mean, I know he was the king, but I'm like, what did he do for the sanatorium? - Hey, who knows? Maybe he boosted morale. - Yeah. - They were just like big fans. - I, well, I guess everybody decided that they were gonna name their facilities, King Edward Robot, and then it got confusing. So they had to change it back. So there was like this weird little stumbling moment where it was called the King Edward Hospital, but it was. - I just can't, I mean. - Change it back. - That's why you come up with something original, you know? - That's what I'm saying. I'm like, just stick with it. - Yeah. - God, there wasn't another Tronquille. There's no reason, like don't, just wait a minute. Wait a minute. - Just wait. - God. - If you had to name a hospital today, what was you name it? - Is this a trick, am I supposed to say? Wait a minute. - No, them shorts. - No. (laughing) - That's what I'd name it, for sure. And I'd be like, oh, after an important dead person. Oh, wait, I mean. - I don't know. I don't know. - Maybe I would call it the Zach Begins Memorial Hospital, and then it would like to draw him. Like it would like lure him to me finally because I can't he like I can never get a hold of that guy You know what that's a great tactic to get him on the horn because he'd calm be like what I got again I'm on the horn. I got a yeah If you wanted a conversation with him that would certainly start it really with his lawyers That would say oh you have to change his that's his name and I would say I need him to prove it You know for all their hard work Maybe you should name the hospital the Zach Began's lawyers memorial hospital They've done more for this hospital than anybody okay So yeah, I think at least the ward the turbo at least the tuberculosis ward at least if someone's gonna get Consumption speaking of old episodes I think that we've got his lawyers to thank for that tip for their healing 100% yeah beautifully said him Do you know? Because I know you love this part where where money gets some ball and I have to tell you what the conversion rate. Yeah, so The patients at this hospital they were charged $15 a week. Do you know how much they were charged 15 L Oh first their medical bills were $15 a week to stay there And how much that would be today like $300 five thirty. Oh Wow, okay, wow, that's a lot. Yeah, so then if you just say like 60 60 a month All of a sudden it's like oh, it's like fucking rent. It's like to treat it like LA rent And so are they required you're gonna tell me that I was gonna say are they required to work I? Am gonna tell you about that gotcha so They were required to work Or actually, you know what I'm not sure yet. Well, let's figure it out together in a second Okay, so they were charged $15 a week for treatment, but many of them were able to get help for their medical bills There was a lot of like places that were trying to raise funds for them But by the 1950s, there was a cure for tuberculosis And so the need for these hospitals tanked and strong keel closed for a second, but a year later It was reopened as a mental hospital it closed for a second Literally like they closed the doors and then they went oh, I forgot something in there and reopened the doors Okay, and then a year later. Sorry say again. They open the doors They they opened them and they opened it up as a just mental hospital Okay, so see but that's what I'm saying There's like a connect there I feel like there tends to be a connection with that term, right and like I'm quote-unquote mental hospital Like I feel like that. I feel like you're right, but maybe I'm just kind of I wonder if it was I wonder if it was originally like trunk ill hospital and then it became trunk ill sanitary or something But it is called trunk ill sanatorium through what I mean though. I do know what you mean. Yeah, okay. I'm with you But nobody else don't be with me. I'm lost. I'm so lost So they reopened as a mental hospital because there was I guess at other mental facilities there were a lot of overcrowding So they were like well, we've got an open building all of a sudden. Let's just bring them on in here Maybe well, maybe that's why maybe they would build these sanatoriums for things like tuberculosis And then it's like well, we have a cure and now we have this large medical facility so like why not I feel like Yeah, I feel like they all turned into either just a different hospital or like a jail like something where you just Can I say I guess jails also have overcrowding. Yeah, true point. Okay. Yeah, and they're all overcrowding Yeah, there is quite a similarity here Mm-hmm on top of it being a mental hospital. Apparently it became some sort of pseudo orphanage because a lot of abandoned kids I also mess it up here. Okay The mental hospital operated. I feel like I've said this a million times This is kind of giving like all the mining towns hotels history. I'm so sorry But the mental hospital here was under the Kirkbride belief where Thomas Kirkbride was the guy who created a lot of the he designed a lot of the mental institutions At this time that I've talked about him before but he was the person who believed that what was the very therapeutic for mental hospital patients was work Or he felt like that was part of their rehabilitation is that they could Well, I'll give you a more specific Thomas Kirkbride if you've ever been on one of these tours to a place used to be an old institution at all If they call it a Kirkbride building. It's because it was meant to be like Kind of over the top but a lot of windows so all the air could come in But also it was a self-sustaining community because it was rehabilitative for the patients to work and feel like they were To society very progressive very progressive and supposed like teach them how to like it was a lot of occupational therapy before occupational therapy was a thing right So this was that situation Thomas Kirkbride His designs or his plans were used in this mental facility and it was already a self-sustaining community when it was the other type of sanatorium Or so they just brought it back and so this whole town had Livestock or this whole hospital had livestock and gardens and greenhouses and orchards and all these different farming tasks that patients could perform as part of their therapy and At that point I think the patients were paying $50 so we can set a 15 Okay, so I'm wondering if they got paid to work or if they were working as part of their therapy and that did not provide any actual money Yeah, I feel like that's a hard line to to find, you know the To balance between charging people For occupational therapy, but also like requiring their work to run the place. Yeah, it feels a little bit of faith to me Yeah, I feel like they probably weren't getting paid It's like if you went to like a physical therapist They wouldn't like pay you ten bucks for doing it afterwards and then you use that ten dollars to pay them It becomes a circular thing right but like also like rolling it around on a tennis ball, isn't it really like I assume that they're not getting paid for the labor I think I would agree I would it feels like probably not why would they be I agree so This opened in like the late 1950s and it was open until the 1980s so for like 30 years because I guess conditions were going down and They're like all right this building. We just don't need it anymore So it became abandoned for a second again, just a quick moment And then it for a second was a detention center for juvenile delinquents. Oh, yeah And then it got bought by this guy who wanted to turn it into a resort. Oh my god I know and he was born in this area called Padova City And so he wanted to name it Padova City after his own town But just go back to the actual Padova City and leave us alone. You know, or at least call it like a new Padova City. Yeah, new Padova No, New York City but new Padova City. I see NPC NPC and a few projects fun fact I've been filmed here probably the most famous is scenes from the 18 But I think the 18 the movie not the TV show so really not that famous Um, I don't know either one. I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Uh and most recently it is now owned by tronkyl farm fresh produce and my They at least have leaned into the history of it a little bit that sounds for people Doesn't it like total props to them and I'm gonna like be like I mean I'd all about it, but like it sounds fake tronkyl farm fresh. Yeah, like what fruit fresh They uh, they've offered tours of the place uh historical tours. I think they've also done like They've allowed overnight investigations here. They've hosted performances here. They've hosted an escape room here They had this like themed Halloween productions here. You've got it. I think they've made it into like a jump scare at one point You know, there was one that they actually called like the theme of the Halloween event was Dr. Padova's haunted carnival So they're like see that's good Notting at the Padova situation really good doc and that's a creepy little name Dr. Padova's haunted car has a really good like ring to it and they had some other event that all Padova's name was also in but Um, anyway, so they're currently there and I guess it's constantly my understanding of this is that it's constantly up in the air if this will ever get turned into a resort and for now It's just this farm fresh produce place, but it sounds like they're having a lot of back and forth on whether or not the Resort will ever be No, and a lot of locals don't care for it. They don't want it. They think it'll be harmful in a lot of ways Especially because it will be doing even more damage to the history of the indigenous people there Um, but what even can somebody explain to me not you and but like what do you mean a resort like what are you talking about? What's this? Okay, so uh it's Remember when I said I'm not talking to you and then I'm like wait, oh now I'm talking yeah you tell me actually please No, you're good. I was like literally to my next bullet. So I actually can oh fantastic Okay, so it would be an eco resort or it's called an agro hood where it's like a neighborhood all based on that agriculture I know it feels like a rich white person Everything needs to be a portmanteau, you know what I'm saying? And that's like a that's a platform I'm running on It's called apparently truncule on the lake Okay, and they've got that's nice. I think it's gonna have I mean it sounds like a retirement community or something It does a little step up from that maybe like a little like I don't know like like my hometown growing up Sorry, I heard my voice through your microphone just now and that was such a horrible sound my own voice How did that happen? I don't know, but I hope to never do it again speak So My neighborhood growing up or my in my town growing up there was a neighborhood where like all the country clubbers lived And I feel like that's what truncule on the leak is Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like this sub to it sounds kind of like a subdivision like for yeah, yeah, yeah, totally totally so They apparently would have a winery in the area they would have like farming tours or something going on I think it would be four country-clubby people. They could say they live in an eco-friendly resort, but I don't really believe how eco-friendly it would be. I'm not too sure. I mean, but it is in Canada, right? So maybe they do have actual laws about things like this. - Oh, maybe. - Unlike the US, I don't know. I'm not sure though. I don't want to claim that, but I think here you could definitely get away with saying like, work eco, whatever. But I don't know. I don't know if other countries have different roles on that. I forgot it was Canadian and my hope is spiked. So thank you. - You're welcome. - But yeah, that's as far as we know about the eco-resort, but apparently millions of dollars were paid a few years ago for this to take off, but then there's been a lot of yes and no hot and cold on if it's up to them to take. So right now, it's just the produce place. - I imagine there's a lot of like town hall meeting in a city happening. - Agreed. Today, the building is considered one of the most haunted places in Canada and beyond the thousands of patients who came here over 80 years. There was also two cemeteries that were here. One of them was one of the original families cemeteries and I think that one's been relocated, but there was also a potter's field here for all the tuberculosis patients that were unclaimed. So I'm assuming that's still on the property. But people have said-- - Yeah, it's gotta be weird energy, I would think. - Gotta be. People have said that they've seen spirits roaming in the area that is or was the cemetery. - Well, that's pretty eco-friendly. - That is eco-friendly. - Oh my god. - Reduce, reduce, reduce, reduce. (laughing) - You gotta, I love it. - The ghosts outside, apparently, I think it has just been like apparitions walking through where they might have been buried, which is fine. Stay exactly where you are. Love the year over there. I won't be there. And then there's ghosts also, of course, in the tunnel system. - Oh, okay. - Wait, is that used for anything? - So nowadays, no, the whole place is, or I don't know, maybe it's storage, but I don't think anyone goes in there. I saw a few video clips and it looks pretty abandoned. But at the time when it was this like thriving, self-sustaining community and the staff was going in and out of these tunnels all the time, one of my favorite fun facts about these tunnels is that they also ended up opening up their own shops in the tunnels. And so, just to like, it was a space-aver, I guess, but there was like a barber shop down there. There was also Yikes. The morgue was down there. - Was that someone's small business? - Maybe, if someone's been around home. But it was, it sounds like it used to be really busy. So that would be since there was a lot of activity today. - That's kind of cool though, that it would be like, not just people brought bodies down, 'cause that reminds me of Waverly Hills, right? Where like the body shoot or whatever in the tunnels. But here, it's like, oh, there's that. But there's also like a more jubilant vibe, you know? I don't know. - So that being said though, the tunnels are said to be some of the most haunted area of the whole thing, which would make sense 'cause that's where you're carting all the dead bodies as one by one. And I didn't even have the number for this, but I'm sure as people died here. - And I gotta imagine a tunnel is some sort of a portal gate. Like I feel like a tunneling a dead body through something is probably the most symbolic thing you can get, you know? - 100% people down here here, voices and moaning and screaming and crying and voices talking to each other, they feel intense sadness. Apparently a lot of people will feel someone rush past them, like bump into them really hard. In the buildings, people will see floating lights by the entrances, the lights will turn on and off by themselves. They hear a lot of gurneys squeaking. They hear a lot of crying. Often people will see a woman in 50s clothes walking up and down the halls and she looks like she's mourning her child. Oh no. And I think they've put two and two together because they often see her on what were the pediatric wings. - Oh no. - So also on these pediatric wings people here, children giggling, they are here footsteps running by. People have just heard kids' voices in general, but there's also a solid black apparition that will peer out of doorways and give you the sense of dread. - Whoa. - What if it give you the sense of exuberance? - Yeah, it's like, yeah, no shit. - That would be, I have yet to experience an original ghost that just makes you want to laugh, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like, oh, you make me smile. - Yeah, that's a great point. I want to find a ghost who just wants to show you, just show you love and happiness and all the good things in the world, I'm saying raise the vibes. - Yeah, yeah, always dread. - Always dread. - People see figures in the windows, they see people wandering the halls, they see twisting mists that will chase them away. - Ew. - There's also twisting mists that appear in photos that you couldn't see in front of you. There are the spirits of an electrician who died in the basement. There's a patient named Margaret who was found dead in one of the unused wards that they say she now wanders around. One source said that Margaret is now trying to escape and I'm like, relax, she was a patient who just died here. - Yeah, yeah. There's also the ghosts of a nurse who was apparently murdered by a patient here, which I have to assume that was more mental hospital than tuberculosis word, but I don't know. And the most interesting of them all is a nurse who allegedly died here because she contracted tuberculosis when she fell in love with one of the patients. - Whoa, okay, now talk about a haunting, geez. - Yeah, that's like, that's all the feelings in one. There's love, there's resentment, there's illness, there's grief. - Oh my goodness, that's like a heavy hitter story. - And I like, I mean, it's alleged enough that there's no evidence. She could have just gotten tuberculosis because she was a fucking nurse that tuberculosis worked. - Yeah, without any love, but we had to throw the love thing out. - Where's the beauty? Where's a romance in that? - You know, where's the whimsy? - Where is it? - The stories of this place being haunted have been passed down especially through local town or through local teenagers who obviously hung out here when it was abandoned and they did the whole like, oh, we broke in and we saw this, blah, blah, blah. That was like, that's the main reason that this place has any of these haunting stories. - Right. - For people who witnessed anything. - But because of these stories, the sanatorium got picked up by MTV's show Fear. I don't know if you remember that from forever ago. - I do, but like barely, I was too scared to watch it. - There was also I think only like 12 episodes and then it didn't work out. But MTV had a show called Fear, which was basically like a ghost hunting show ahead of its time. - Seriously, ahead of its time for sure. - The episode, for some reason, they changed the name to Serenity Lake sanatorium. I wonder if they didn't like have the fucking rights to give it its actual name. - I know. I bet you they were like, oh, French. We don't speak that at MTV. - Yeah, they were like, oh, well, it's by the Tranquille River. - Someone look up in the dictionary. - In the translation dictionary, yeah. - Yeah. - So on MTV's Fear, this show got traction because of all the rumors swirling around it. It is known as one of the most haunted places in Canada. So MTV went hell, yeah, we're going there. And I guess some of the contestants on the show when they were ghost hunting in this building, they actually heard children in the halls running around upstairs. - Bye. - And they start freaking out. However, it's come across my desk that it's been-- - Breaking. - heavily. - heavily confirmed that a lot of literal local teenagers were paid in pizza to go make noise upstairs during this filming. - Paid in pizza, you say. - One of the people who actually wrote an article about this even said that her brother was one of the people who was paid to do this. - I see. I mean, that feels like exactly what would happen on a show like this, yes. - It was back when MTV and VH1 had those crazy reality shows were like, there were no fucking limits. - Where they would just like make stuff up and be like, she eats her own toenails on like next and you're like, what? There's no way she said that and agreed to it. - It was during that time. And this was, I mean, only like, this was I think like two or three episodes in or something. So I think they were trying to really up the ante and make it seem interesting enough so they would get another season. - Right. So I think they were just like forcing any story that they could and paying the children and anything that they could. But I saw at least two or three sources, people knew someone or had a sibling where they all remember them going to this building overnight and seeing. - So it's like well known in town that like that's how it went, yeah. - Yeah, okay. - Also the show, while they were there, they created storylines that I've just never seen anywhere else. Like they came up with the story that one of the ghosts here is a doctor's wife who just couldn't get over the fact that she died from tuberculosis here. They came up with the story. The writers were just like really getting creative. - Oh, they had a storyline about a guy called the pig man. - Please. - Like they were just saying anything. - They were just making stuff up. - They were saying anything. So I say all that to say that the place was only really ever abandoned long enough for teenagers to break in and start saying they saw something there for the shock value. And then MTV came out and did this and that's probably what got them even bigger platform and known as super haunted. - Right. - Between those two things, that's kind of where all the rumors would swirl around. Other investigators have actually gone there to try and find something and the scariest thing that they found, which is fucking scary, is that they went into the tunnels and they found a dummy hanging from the rafters. - Yeah. - But they thought it was a real person for a second. - And then they heard screaming, but it was coyotes. But it was clearly like people had left either a meaner distasteful people did that as like a prank for the next people who would come along or maybe it was a Halloween thing that got left up. Right, right. But so even people who have gone there to like seriously try to investigate have been like most of it, I'm not getting that vibe. I mean, maybe it's creepy. Maybe there's a ghost that certainly isn't that haunted. And it's scary for like a lot of other reasons too. Right. It's scary for very legitimate reasons. And yeah, big actually perfect segue because the owner of tronkyo farm fresh who that doesn't feel real on its own. The owner actually lives on the property while working there. And he has said that he thinks a lot of it is false marketing and that he wishes people wouldn't do that. So this is a quote from him where he says over time the internet has turned an unfounded rumor into an internet truth, which is effectively disrespecting the thousands of local residents who lived and worked here until the 1980s. And he said instead of focusing on the fantastic true stories of the site and honoring those who poured lives their lives into it. A small group of people are insisting on putting their spin on a story they do not understand nor own. And I can see where he's coming from. However, I did not see him actually deny that it's haunted. So maybe two things can be true at once. Maybe he's like maybe the first half of that quote that he like control all deleted was yes, there are ghosts, but I really wish we focused on something else. Yeah, yeah. And like also the point of like it's not their story to like twist and change and you know it's a fair point. So he clearly wants people to know that he wishes they focused on something else. So I am putting that quote in here for him. But if you take one look at this place, you would assume it's haunted and it is on incredibly, on a lot of listicles as like one of the most haunted places in Canada. I don't know how much MTV was the reason for that. But there you have it. That is the Tronkyle Sanatorium. And I guess you're just going to have to go and find out yourself. I guess I'm going to have to watch MTV later. Yeah, because I want to watch that episode. It was I would love to visit it myself. I feel like it would be very interesting. It is like a company because it's the Tronkyle farm. Sure. So I think you have to call an advance to do a tour or they host them at certain times during the year. But there's no way if we went there, even though I'm saying this whole caveat of like, I don't know, it could be a lot of rumors and this guy isn't confirming that there are ghosts. I'm saying that. But if we went there, we would be like, there's no doubt in my mind this place is on it. Like it looks. Yeah. Okay. I see. It's a hundred year old Sanatorium. And it was two different types. You know what I mean? Oh my word. I'm looking at it. I mean, there are like complete with just like stone circles in the like fields and like, there's this. Oh my god. I mean, the main building. I mean, it really like the paint is peeling off in that way that looks like a like a silhouette will appear like a piece of cheese wasn't fully sliced all the way through. Yeah, like that kind of peeling. Oh my gosh. It looks spooky as hell dude. And to know there were two cemeteries there. It was a tuberculosis ward. It wasn't that many people died. Yeah. So many people died there. Um, I mean, so there's a lot of dark energy there. I wouldn't be surprised as a teenager who broke into a lot of abandoned buildings. I'm telling you that like, there's, I fully believe that they think they saw something or felt something because that would have been creepy as shit in the middle of the night. Of course. So absolutely. I don't know if anyone's lying or just, I don't know. No, maybe it's yeah. And like, people probably have different experiences, perceptions. I'm just like, look at this. It's so funny to see the shadow of the Google Street View camera guy like the tiny little electric car. And then there's all these gates like fence off with signs like no parking, no parking. And you can see that he reached the dead end and needs about to go. And he's like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. It is spooky. Okay. Anyway, that's a story. Good job. Thank you. Well, you said you have something for your app hour. I'm going to go pee real quick. Okay. And then I'm ready to rock and roll if you are. I am. I'm so sick of these fellas saying, oh, there's a fee for the air waves on your phone bill. What are you talking about? It just drives me nutty. And that's why we are so thankful to have encountered meant mobile. And we are so happy that their sponsor virus because they change the old ways. You know, we love a new way of doing things. They help you stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been as those guys we're seeing talking about have always said. Mint exists purely to fix that. They're here to rescue with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. And all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your own phone. Don't even worry about it. You can bring your number. I have done this. We did this with the tour. I've had it was super easy. You can even activate Nesim in minutes and start saving immediately. There's no long term contract. So you're not getting in anything long term unless you want to. And I thank your mind. Yeah, we love it. And I think you will too. So if you like your money, Mint mobile is for you shop plans at mitmobile.com/atwwd. It's mitmobile.com/atwwd up from payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available. Texts and fees extra. See mitmobile for details. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace domains. We have you Squarespace since we started the podcast almost 10 years ago. Actually, and the Sheldt's fourth man are we now have two family members using Squarespace because Allison and her jewelry business for just craft just started using Squarespace themselves. She was like I really need a website and I said we've never had a problem with Squarespace. You got to use them. With Squarespace, your domain comes with everything included from the moment that you register. You get every feature, every tool, everything you need to manage everything for your website. Just in one place from email forwarding to domain renewals. You don't have to worry about going elsewhere for any of it. It's all in one spot. And now you can not just secure your domain without any extra fees when we were starting our website. It like cost all this extra money just to have the rights to the name or to the to the URL. But Squarespace has that handled. And your domain includes advanced built in security and privacy protections with an activity log. So you know everything that's going on on your website at all times. You never have to wonder when something changed at all. And with Squarespace, you also can unlock a full suite of tools. Not just the website builder, but email campaigns scheduling all that from again, just one place. It's really wonderful. We love Squarespace. We have been singing their praises for a long time. And that's because for the last 10 years, they have only gotten better and better and better. So please go check them out. Check out Squarespace.com slash drink for free, child. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a domain. Okay. So today I have a story for you. This came to me via a friend of mine. Well, a friend of ours, sort of Charlie, who was the owner of the lovely dog Naughty, whom we met in Charleston. And I fell in love with him, became best friends with. So there was a the dog, not the person. No offense, Charlie. It's it's it's mutual. I'm sure now that the dog a few times. A few books. Yes. Yes. And so she so she it is a really good dog. So I'm not to brag, but she was in my neighborhood the other day, because there was this independent bookstore going on. And my brother was like, this is the gayest. You're like, your neighbor suddenly becomes so gay, because it was like all the independent like crafters and like bookstore. It was just like really, really awesome. But so Charlie and her wife came down with the dog Naughty. And like we chatted for a few hours and we hung out whatever we did the crafter and then they left and I get a text like an hour later that says and I quote, please hold while I pull up my notes. Oh, also, I just told page that's the wife this in the car. But I forgot to tell you I have a story for you to use if you need something. My aunt was murdered a while ago. And there's even a forensic files episode on it. And I'm like, I've met you several times now. Like I feel like that's shocking information to hear via text after we just spent the afternoon hanging out. So then linked to the forensic files episode. So of course, I had to go do like a deep dive and I texted her like, are you sure it's okay that I cover this? Like it's your family and she goes, oh, I didn't know her. So she said, apparently I was alive when she was murdered, but I was around seven. So I don't remember it at all. And she didn't really know much about it until, you know, kind of getting older and learning about it. So I'm going to cover the story because I of course watched the forensic files episode and then went, oh, my God, this is quite a tale. And it's a good reminder too that like these people, like victims are people. Yeah, you know, it sounds like it's cliche, right. But it sounds do. She'd be like, we should empathize but like it is. It is a good reminder that people that listen to our show could very easily be related to this. Like this is their aunt, you know, or something. It's just it's a very sobering reminder sometimes. And so yeah, that's what I'm going to cover. The story of Virginia Russell. Okay. And this is a tale full of red herrings. And I just love a red herring. So let's get into it. For your story, I'm going to light a candle actually. Oh, lovely. Just so I need the mood to be right. We don't just, we don't just, we don't just, we don't just, - Oh, delightful. - What did it smell like to you, Miss Psychic? - Hints of some sort of tobacco or leather amber, some sort of musky smell. - The glass is amber, you're that close. - Oh, that's where that came from. - Mango and salt. That's okay. - Well shit, okay. - It's not even a little bit. - It's delightful if anybody needs a new candle. This was from World Market. - Oh, wait, is pink, wait, which one is it? - Mango and pink salt. - Oh my God, it's so funny. My brother and I were wandering around there the other day. We smelled every single fucking candle and could not find one we both liked. - Mango and pink salt, it's beyond. So enjoy. - I'm gonna try that. And I am ready for you to tickle the ear drums as you say. - As I've never said. So here is the story of Virginia Russell. Unfortunately, the story of Charlie's armant. So we've got a story here full of red herrings today. I know that forensic files likes to really like ham up the red herrings, but it's true, there are quite a few. So we're gonna get into it. This takes place in Columbia, South Carolina. Virginia, one night was driving her husband. I don't know if he was her husband or partner, but either way, she was driving him and something happened. The car was in an accident. It flipped eight times both she and her husband were ejected from the vehicle and unfortunately Rodney was killed and Virginia was rushed to the hospital and survived. She had a blood alcohol level of 0.16, which is almost twice the legal limit. So because of that, she kind of had this. I wanted to say double whammy, but it's like a triple whammy of like you not only have been like gravely injured, you also are grieving the loss of your partner and you are now going to prison because you're at fault for it. It's just the end of your sanity. It's just everything. Yeah, it's everything all at once. And this obviously had a very, very profound impact on her. And when she was released from prison, she told her family that she had found work cleaning houses. And so they were happy with her. They were trying to help her get back on her feet. And one evening, while she was with her family, she got a message on her pager at 8.54 p.m. And she told her family, "Hey, I've been called to go clean. I have a house cleaning to do. Goodbye." They said, "We love you, see you later." And that was the last time they ever saw her. So early the next morning, a man walking his dog finds a woman's body near an athletic field near Rosewood, South Carolina. And police, of course, are called and they take a look and it turns out the victim had been shot three times execution style in the head. Oh, my God, okay. But they only found two shell casings nearby. They fingerprinted the victim and identified her tragically as Virginia Russell. And she had only been out of prison for two months at this point, so barely back. How long was she in prison for? It was not a very long time. I do not have the exact stats. I would say maybe like 18 months maybe something like that. And it's for like involuntary manslaughter or something like that. So it was something in that vein, yes, for vehicular manslaughter or something like that, I believe. I believe. This is all my attempt of remembering. Okay, so they found the shell casings. They identified her as Virginia Russell. She'd only been out for two months. She was missing her right shoe. There was on the foot that was missing the shoe. There was no dirt or debris on the foot. So they thought like, well, that's weird. She probably didn't walk out here. You know, she, her foot would be dirty. But her stockings further up had been ripped and she had scrapes on her knees. Okay, so what they kind of determined was that she may have been shot once elsewhere and then dragged. And that's why her feet would have been clean. But then knees of her. Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible, it's horrible, it's horrible, it's horrible. So dragged and then shot two more times resulting in the body being there and the two shell casings nearby. They did find one single hair, but unfortunately it didn't have the root on it. And back then hair analysis was very early on and they were not able to use that to pinpoint any suspect. They did also find at the crime scene two empty beer bottles and these beer bottles were about 20 feet from her body. So they were not sure if this was just trash from somebody who'd been in the field before or if this was related, which has got to be confusing, like adding an extra layer of confusion to the whole thing. There was no sign of sexual assault. Two purses were found near her body, both belonging to her, but they were empty of virtually everything, but maybe a few coins. And so one of the early on motives seemed to be robbery. So now, of course, they start looking into Virginia's life. And when they talked to her family who's obviously just horrified at this news, they tell the family tells police, "Oh, she cleans houses for a living." And after some digging police find out she's not cleaning houses. She is working as a sex worker. And didn't feel comfortable telling her family that for whatever reason and was using the pager. At the time, the terminology to be more specific was a call girl. It was considered as if there's a hierarchy within it. It's sort of like, "Oh, you're being called personally." It's more like how would they would say, there was a prostitute and then an escort. It was like, it's meant to be a little more high class in some regard. And so she was considered a call girl. And she had a literal pager. And so she would get paid. And whatever company or higher up she worked for would basically summon her, give her the address. And she would be off to the location and get paid. And so they tell her family that. And of course, that is a blow to them as well. She's not easy to find work, especially after a felony conviction. Sure, I can't blame her for that. And also, this means, unfortunately, there's a long list of suspects now, right? Like if she's been meeting with strangers, it could be a dozen people. Yeah, how many clients does she have? Right, exactly. So they do find her car in an abandoned parking lot two miles from her body. There is a single shell casing inside the car. So now they're thinking, okay, she was shot in the car and then dragged to the second location. They really, I got to give a warning if anybody does watch the forensic files. And there are other shows about this story, but the forensic files I can speak to show some very, very graphic footage of the car as a crime scene. So just a warning there. Very gruesome, there was a lot of blood. On the floorboard, they found another clue. There was a six-packed carton of Mikalobe light with only one full beer bottle left in the carton. Okay. So now they're thinking we'll, okay, we've got one here, two at the crime, that was the same type of beer. Okay. I forgot to mention that the beer on the field, next to her body was also Mikalobe light. And so they're thinking, well, this is an interesting connection. Of course, it's a very mainstream beer, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything yet, but it's definitely worth noting. But so the thought now is that they were in her car first. Is that what we're thinking? But okay. Or at least at some point, that perhaps the same person was with her, you know, in the vehicle at the field. - Sure. - And would have been drinking these beers. So in addition to the beer carton on the floor, they also found her shoe on the floorboard. The one that had been missing from her body when they found her. - Well, that kind of firms, I think, for me, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very clear that she had been shot and inside the car. I think the beer was just sort of a clue as to like, who could have done this more so. Like, who, like, the beer being in the car was a clue that the beer at the crimes, the other crime scene was relevant. That wasn't just there by random, by happenstance, you know, that like, it could very well be that this beer left behind was also the perpetrators. And so that's kind of why they're taking note of that. So they decide, well, obviously, we have to figure out who she was meeting that night if she's a, quote, unquote, call girl. So they figured out who paged her. And she had gotten a page from a man named Justin Bullard and this guy, it feels like this is the most, like forensic files slash, like SVU crime scene. Trump ever, but he owns an aquarium-cleaning business, and I don't know. I think it's only because there was an episode of SVU that Patrick Stump played the villain in, and he owned an aquarium shop, and I was like, "What a strange job title to give a villain, but I guess, here we go." I guess they do at all, though, but I guess they're jack-of-all trades. She had gotten a page from this guy, Justin Bullard, now he owned an aquarium-cleaning business. He denied any involvement in the murder for what its worth had no criminal history, but his alibi was being home alone, and I love that they interviewed this retired detective who's this old-school guy, and he's like, "His alibi was being home alone." And the problem with that was him being home alone. I was like, "Thank you so much." "Thank you so much, okay." And so they were looking around his apartment. They also find that in his phone book, there are several pages ripped out, and those pages were all escort services. They also found a pair of his boots that showed slight discoloration, and had been stained with high impact, which is also called high-velocity blood spatter. Okay. Now blood spatter analysis doesn't necessarily hold as much weight as it used to, but like this is blood found all over his shoes, and the DNA analysis of that proved that it was Virginia's blood on his shoes, so pretty damning. Sure. They test his handgun, which he also owns, and happens to be the same caliber as the murder weapon, and wouldn't you know it, they're the same gun. So they've got what they think is a slam dunk. His boots have her blood on them, the weapon is the same. He was the last person to page her, but Bullard said, "Oh, nope, not me. It was not me." He had a theory though. He said someone could have stolen all of my belongings, committed the crime, and then returned all my belongings. And they said, "Well, isn't that just patently ridiculous?" I just don't buy that one. If you consider yourself an enthusiast of dark Victorian history, you probably already know about the age of spiritualism, the grisly murders, the body snatchers. But I try to dig a little bit deeper. My name is Genevieve Manion, hostess of My Victorian Nightmare. If you find yourself intrigued by the salacious scandals, haunted happenings, and gothic poetry of the 1800s, join me every Monday for My Victorian Nightmare, wherever you find your podcasts. So they said, "Okay, well, let's humor him for a minute." If that were the case, who do you think would have done this very mischievous, horrific thing? And he goes, "Oh, well, maybe it was my friend. He's living with me right now, because he didn't pay the electric bills, so the power would shut off at his own place, and so I gave him a place to stay." Now here's where things get weird. Meanwhile, as this is all going on, the sky's trying to defend himself. The prosecutor is researching similar cases in recent times. And they encounter a story of a woman in the area who had a very similar experience, who was also identified as a call girl. This woman had gone to her client's apartment and had noted that it was very dark. There were only candles lit. She felt a little uneasy. And then the man, presumably the tenant of this apartment, pulled a knife and demanded she hand him cash. Apparently, she handed over a couple hundred bucks that she had on her and he told her, "Run and don't look back." "Oh, my God." Yes. And so she had reported this, and when police looked into it, they find that the tenant of the apartment was a man named Roy Beck. And when they showed her photos, and again, this is another woman that this occurred before Virginia's murder. This was a woman who had survived her attack. So when they had given her a photo lineup, she pointed out this man, Roy Beck, who lived in the apartment, said that's the man. So Roy Beck, he also looked nothing like this bullard guy. But when they took one little slightly closer look at Roy Beck, they found the darnedest thing. Roy Beck was a friend, Justin Bullard, said was living with him at the time of the murder. Oh. Remember? Oh, remember his electricity went out because he didn't pay the bills. Yes. A dark apartment full of candles. So now two people of interest here who could have done this live in the same fucking apartment, which also means that even though this other guy's boots, presumably, he could be literally right that his roommate/friend took them and put them back in the closet. Yeah. It sounds insane when you first say it, and then it's like, "Oh, well, if you have someone living with you who does shit like this, murder's people." It does sound like, if Justin is telling the truth, it sounds like he didn't even know his friend would have that in him because he didn't even accuse his friend. He was like, "Someone must have stolen all of my stuff and put it exactly back." Yeah. They're like, "Well, who?" And it's like, "Hmm. I only one person I can think of, the guy with a key to my house in my apartment." So yeah, the boots are his, the gun is his, but this other guy also has access to all these items and has attacked a sex worker in the past. So it's like, "Jesus, the lights are out, the power's out, it's all connecting." Now, police go into the apartment of Roy Beck, the one with no electricity, and what do they find? They find three empty, make-alogue light beer bottles. Ding, ding, ding. That'll do it. Fucking ding. So DNA testing did exist, but it wasn't good enough at the time to get Ace alive a sample off of any of the beer bottles, and so that was kind of up low. But instead, they did this thing called superglue fuming, which is crazy. Is that just like lighting it on fire and huffing the fumes? Is that it? Yeah. What's superglue though? So sorry. Like at the lab. Are we talking about the police? Oh, god damn it. Yeah, yeah. I thought you- They're doing whippets in the fucking DNA lab. You know, I thought I missed something. And I was like, is she talking about what they must have enough to and that would be- I didn't realize you switched contexts really quickly, because I mean, it does sound really crazy, but- I was just imagining like, oh, there are electricity's out. What are they going to do? Huff's to go. Right. What else would you do? Superglue vapors. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. The lab, the people against them are doing some superglue fuming. Is it people testing for evidence? Essentially, they do this thing where they like heat glue up to the point that it vaporizes, and then it sticks to a surface, even a non-porous surface like plastic, or what have you to- and it turns into a white color when it touches a fingerprint. So any like finger or palm prints that are on a non-porous surface, or in this case, it was a glass bottle, it'll turn into a white solid upon contact, and then you can like find the, I mean, it's really cool. I mean- Who was the person who created- Someone who was huffing glue was the first person who created that, and they went, "You're not going to believe this. I think I just have to think of that too." Talk about a ray. It's a rich's story. Wow. Wow. That's powerful. So they did find a partial palm print, but weirdly, it did not match any three of these people. So they're feeling like totally at a loss here. Ah. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. So the prosecutors, like, we got to stick to these beer bottles though. There's something here, like what are the odds that all these bottles showed up, you know? We have to connect these. So of course, now forensic files spits like, I don't know how long, like 10 full minutes over explaining the concept of like a serial number. Well, I bet it was that same older guy earlier who was like the problem with him being home alone, is it? No, yeah. I think everybody had that exact same attitude. It was like, so here's a beer bottle, and this part's called a label, and I was like, "Really? Are we going to do this? Are we really going to do this?" You know what? Sometimes you need something explained, like your five, and- I mean, fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I sure, they sure did. So the beer labels all have a born-on date. And the born-on date of the spear bottle was 22 October 96. Then it says WF-58. W is the geographic code for Williamsburg, Virginia, fun fact. F is the assembly line that the bottling took place on, and then of course 58 is the number of the bottle. And then in the most complex way possible, they can explain to me like, I'm five. The concept of consecutive numbers, and the odds in a billion of like the same consecutive numbers appearing in whatever, okay, we get it. It's his beer. Okay, we get it. It's his beer. It's his beer, oh my god. Okay, we knew that. We knew that already. But anyway, it is, for sure. So as it turns out, all these beers came from the same six pack, and as it also turns out, this Roy Beck character, apparently his motive was cash. He wanted, he was desperate for cash to feed his addiction to crack cocaine. And he had first called this escort line to request someone come to his home, had attacked that woman with a knife, gotten a few hundred dollars. But then when, you know, he didn't pay his power bills and had to move out into Justin Bullard's home, he used his belongings to set, he used James, Justin's belongings, excuse me, to set up the meeting with the next sex worker in an attempt to cover his tracks, which almost worked, right? Yeah, really did almost work. Yeah, he did really throw his buddy under the bus. I wonder if they were close or they just roomed together. I mean, clearly they couldn't have been that close. I think Justin was just like, oh, I'm a nice guy. let this guy stay with me on the couch. I don't think it went much further than that because this guy seems like a real scumbag, you know. I mean, not that I know much about Justin. He could be a scumbag too. I've no clue. Just luckily is flying low right now. I was going to say at least he got out of here on skate. So I can't really tell you. So investigators theorized that Roy and Virginia had actually met before. And I'll tell you why. So he basically took all the stuff from Justin's house, gotten to Virginia's car after like calling her from Justin's pager. They drove around somewhere secluded, had a beer presumably through them out the window was how they ended up in that area. Now their theory as to why they'd met before is that, you know, he knew he had to kill her. He couldn't just rob her, right? Like he knew this woman would have known who he was. That's the theory. And so they believe he shot her right there in the car, you know, dragged her body out into the road, shot her two more times, took the cash from the two purses she had with her, drove her car two miles away to dump it, and then returned to Bullard's apartment and put his boots back, put his, you know, put his stuff back. But the beer, the beer tied them all back to the murder site, which is just crazy. Like thank God, you know, for that. But it did place them at all three crime scenes, and it's kind of scary how they could have gotten the wrong guy because it was, I mean, you see blood on a guy's boots in his closet. It's like, hello. I mean, Justin was probably geeking out, being like, what the fuck is? I mean, as you know, seriously, terrified, terrified of the concept of being framed and going to jail. As everyone is, but it's first like I, it's a pervasive. I don't know that everyone is. No, no, I'm always scared of it. I don't know that everyone is to the degree that you seem to me. I don't know what my deal. I think I just watch so much longer and so much like a predator that I'm just like constantly seeing people going to jail and I'm like, hope that's not me. Hope that's not me. And I don't know why I'm just sitting here like drinking my fucking juice boxes. Like I'm not doing anything. But horrifies me. And the idea of like, oh, there's blood on my boot. And that's certainly something I can't explain away. I don't know. Yeah. Justin must have been freaking out. Someone could have borrowed them and put them back. Is a crazy thing to say to the police when you have blood on your boots. Like he really is. I mean, and it was, right, it was true. Like, but it really, it could have gone so bad if none of this beer and all this had happened. You know, I mean, it's really frightening. After this, Justin certainly shares the same fear I do. I hope he at least doesn't let fucking scumbag sleep on his couch anymore. Yeah. He had, he learned a lot from this experience, but some better boundaries maybe. Oh my god. But yeah, that's the story of Virginia Russell. And like I said earlier, I mean, it's sort of just a reminder that like even an episode of forensic files, which is the kind of show that's always on it, like a hotel or, you know, when I'm folding laundry or something, it's like that's somebody's aunt. Like, that's your, that's my friends aunt. You know, it's just like a very like stark reminder sometimes. And especially when it comes to cases about sex workers, where, you know, they're kind of treated with less dignity anyway. Like it's, it's easy to kind of just. Of course, it's easy to blur off past. So I want to thank Charlie for sending me that and letting me cover it. That was very, yeah. You know, kind of you. And I know you don't remember, but I'm sorry to your family that that happened. That's very tragic. Obviously. And I'm glad that they got the right guy behind bars, you know, yeah. I, uh, it reminds me a lot the, the, the, our personal moral of the story being, you know, everyone's related to all those people that are victims are related to somebody. It reminds me of that, um, that TV show that it was forever ago, but every episode was a different person talking about a family member or something tragic happened to them. But it was like the DC sniper, like it was like his daughter was being interviewed. And then the next have you not heard about this? I don't know. It was a long time ago, but every episode someone was getting interviewed because they were a relative of some notorious killer. And it was like, how did this change your life? What did you see the signs? And it was, it feels like a Nancy Grace, not Nancy Grace. Um, feels like a, like a Barbara Walters special or something. It should have been. It was just a, a TV show, but I think it only ran for one season because people got so uncomfortable watching people. Yeah, I bet it's uncomfortable. I've seen, um, like an interview with, um, the sister of, it was one of the, you know, a shoot, I hate to say one of the shooters, but you know, one of the more recent shootings. And she was the, um, sister of that, of that shooter. It may have been actually the Charlie Kirk, uh, well, I'm not sure. I don't remember the details, but I remember even in the comments of that about the article, people were like losing their absolute minds about like whether or not just debating. And I don't know where I stand. I haven't put enough thought into it, but like a research into it, but just the thought of like, does she deserve a platform and like, does, it's just a lot of ethical quandaries there, I think. Yeah. I, um, I was, when I would watch such, I shouldn't have been watching that. I was way too young. But I remember thinking like, oh, I really like this concept, but it's got to be really hard for everyone involved. The interviewer, the interviewer, we us watching it. Like it's, oh, yeah. Yeah. It was before the true crime craze. I think today it would probably do well. But oh, I'm sure. I like, I think they do. Yeah, I wonder if there's any sort of, any version of that nowadays, um, on a lighter note, just to end it. What? I've, as someone who has watched longer SVU front to back a thousand times, where the fuck was Patrick Stump? What episode? I swear he was in an episode. Um, I just don't know what he looks like. Oh, so I just don't know what you're up. Law in order. Law in order. Okay. He was Marty Dressler. You know who that is. I feel like it's sad Christine, how much long order I watched. It wasn't a cunning IT technician and kidnapping mastermind. So maybe he wasn't an aquarium owner. I just have this weird memory of him like having an aquarium in the role. And I was like, what? I was like, you would give him an aquarium. I don't know. Maybe I'm inventing that. No, is was it long order SVU? I don't think it was long or SVU. Yeah, it was. Was it? Oh, maybe I'm mixing up with someone else. Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe I don't know. I'll go watch it now. Now that I know who I'm looking for. No, don't look for him. It's in a heat. Listen, at that point, because, you know, it wasn't his cutest era. Let's put it that way. I see. Okay. So if I look at him, I'll go it was long order. It was not long order. It was not SVU. I don't know. What's the difference? What's mothership? What's happening? There's a lot of long orders. SVU is the only one that's still around though. SVU is the last surviving, I think. And then there was long order criminal 10. That just got canceled. Well, this one says it's the original. Okay. So it's not SVU. I don't okay. Never mind. There's a lot of them. It's like, it's own models and about a universe. It really is because they'll sometimes do crossovers. And it's like, Olivia Benson is working with this person. Oh, I do like that. Yeah. Yeah. Especially long order criminal intent, because that was Elliott Stablers spinoff. And then he would often come back on SVU. Oh, that's right. Okay. Well, I'll go watch that again, probably. And it's at a pet shop. Like, I feel like there's something there. I'll let you know. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Well, thank you everybody for listening and happy gotcha day to Hank. And congratulations, Patrick Stump, for being on an episode forever. Go listen to what guitarist Joe Truman of Fallout Boy fame said when they asked for a quote about Patrick being in an episode of Law and Order. It's cool. He said they show them because well, look at him. Joe Trump laughed, looking all sweet and looking all nice. But he's a real deal creep underneath those glasses. Jesus, that's not nice. Well, I'll let you know how big of a creep he is. I have a feeling he's I feel like he's got to be a killer. I feel like no one guests on law in order to not be the villain, you know, creep in that show in that. Thank you everybody. And we'll see you next week. And that's why we drink.