E480 Clown Bags and Accidental Witchcraft

So it took me a long time to realize, but I think a lot sooner than other people in my life who've also kind of talked to me about this, that OCD was kind of affecting all parts of my life. I didn't realize like how invasive it was all the way into the true crime. I mean, I don't think this podcast necessarily would even exist because true crime was one of my earliest interests and it really did kind of weave into OCD. Unfortunately, that ended with like a positive result, right? But a lot of other things it's been negatively impacted by and OCD is so much more than the stereotypes you see. It is a serious and highly misunderstood condition. So we're so proud to partner with no CD to sponsor this episode. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But OCD is highly treatable with that specialized therapy, ERP or Exposure and Response Prevention. 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And I, he's just kept us always at the dog park and so I saw her went, oh, look who the cat dragged and he was like, we're at a dog park. Yeah, what are you? You're not getting weird grown up over there. We have a weird, we have a weird bond. It's odd at the dog park. I feel like it's just age doesn't matter. Everyone's just you see each other enough. Yeah, you're just kind of kind of all humans, you know, yeah, it was it's very utopian. I suppose it's a park and just kind of poop all the time. And people say weird idioms like look what the cat dragged in. I know. Oh, how are you? Oh, I'm still wearing my pajamas. I realized just now for me yesterday. So oops. I just went to sleepy hollow, speaking of your sleepy hollow shirt that you're wearing. I just realized it's also sleepy hollow and it's my pajamas. Oh, that's, is that why you got that? That's smart. It's not and it wasn't until this moment. Now it is now retroactively. It is and now it has to be PJs. Now it has to be PJs. And I'm going to tell you I'm drinking my big bees. Big mocha big bee mocha. So that's what I'm drinking and I drink because I don't know man. I'm just trying to survive like Uranus moves into Gemini on Saturday. And things are about to get crazy. Do you know what happened the lot? Okay, listen to this. 84 84 years ago. Okay. When Uranus moved into Gemini 84 years ago. World were two. Oh, when Uranus moved into Gemini 84 years before that. Civil war. Oh, when Gemini you certainly couldn't be a third one, right? Hey, stop talking. Called Revolutionary, called Revolutionary War. This is the 250th anniversary of the United States and as my new friend, Alisa Kelly, who was on our show. And I'm now like a fan girl of and I'm so embarrassed that our relationship again with me mispronouncing her name and you having to correct me. She said on her podcast, Google real quick and I'd like you to try this experiment and Google real quick how long until an empire falls. Just Google that isn't every 250 years. It sure is. It comes right up there. It's like that's just kind of how history goes, you know? And so 50th to us big deal. That's right. That's right. We got Revolutionary War. Civil war. I mean, just like kind of a big deal. World war two. Do you think people, I mean, there's no way to know this. Do you think people who, let's say before at the era of right before World War two or right before. Do you think they also all knew this was kind of coming? Like because everything you said to me doesn't totally shock me that like something horrid might happen. I mean, you're probably right because World War two, obviously, we didn't enter until. You know, into until the war had begun right. And so it's like sure there was an act, but like we're already at war. So it's like, what could it mean? And you know, she made a good point to like it doesn't necessarily mean like physical like we're all at like on at a civil war literally on. I mean, it could, but hopefully not. But you know, like insurrection or like writing wrongs and like kind of rebelling against the system overthrowing the system. Like that kind of energy is what happens when Uranus, which is the planet of disruption enters Gemini, which is maybe the sign of disruption as far as you and I are concerned. So it's chaos meeting chaos. Yeah, and it's like really it's just turns shit upside down and like it doesn't necessarily have a plan. It just kind of like the energy goes where it needs to go. And I think we all see where the energy is going. And yeah, things are about to get whack on Saturday that is happening. And I think we can all kind of feel that intensity. And I think it happens also on a personal level too. So just you know. As Gemini's, you know, we're going to have a lot of like as Gemini's doesn't mean that we are safer from this or we're more. We're the most affected, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's more like we'll be the most affected as far as the next several years until it changes into cancer until it moves into cancer. 2018 was the last time was when it entered Taurus announced entry. So basically what has happened since 2018 to now, whatever Taurus is in your chart. That's been kind of topsy turvy by Uranus announced moving to Gemini. So because that's our Sun sign. It's going to kind of like shine a light on a lot of things and like activate a lot of things and it's going to be interesting. Also, three of my placements are Gemini. So are they okay? Interesting. Interesting. What are you know which ones? Only one of them is in my big three, but then the other two were kind of like further out there. I don't know what that means or anything. But I remember being like, oh my god, look at me go Gemini. You little twin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild stuff. So I don't know. I mean, hopefully it just means only good, you know, change changes needed clearly. What is that why you're drinking? I think that is why I'm drinking. Yeah, I love that for me. I'm like super into astrology right now. And I think it's just like. I'm love. Oh, she has a new show, by the way. It's called Astrology with Alisa Kelly and every every week she spills the tea and it's it's on its like second week and it's like kicking butt. And it's doing really awesome. It's independent. She like moved away from the network. She was on and started her own IP and it's really awesome. So go check it out. I told her I would mention it at some point and then I kept forgetting. So this is a perfect time. But I'm also in here a little covenant. Like she has a covenant online where people we do like manifestate like money manifestations that are also like ethical, which is kind of cool. And she talks about the ethics of that. And she's just really cool lady. So yeah, check out her show. Nice. Well, what do you drink my friend, my Gemini friend? I don't know. I don't know this time around. Oh, he's like, I know, I know. All that's like run and lie down, you know, like that made no sense at all. Um, why do I drink? I I don't know. I feel like I don't know why, but I feel like things are about to get like really busy, but like I don't have anything planned. I don't know if you're in this is going into Gemini on Saturday and I can sense it. I feel like we can sense in your psychic specifically. So like you're probably like your sweaty sins are probably on nuts. I something's happening, but I don't know what it is, because I don't have any plant, but I've also noticed that I have not been planning things with people. Like there's been a few people who have reached, I'm like, Hey, let's get dinner and I keep putting off scheduling it with them because I keep thinking I'm busy, but then I look at the calendar. I'm like, Oh, I'm not busy at all. Oh, weird. You're like holding space for something, but I don't know what it is, because I would love to get dinner with them. But for some reason, I feel really maybe I'm just mentally busy, like cluttered. I do feel cluttered. I don't know why, but, um, yeah, I don't know. I'm feeling a little off these days. And then today's go else and also said she was feeling off and I was like, ooh, something's in the air. I'm telling you, there is something in the air and like, I think I've been, yeah, I've been feeling that same way of like, just concerning almost. Yeah, and I don't know what I feel like I'm on higher alert, but I don't know what for. Yes, the vigil, the hyper vigilance, I feel like it's getting wacky. Yeah. And when I'm resting, I feel like I'm like, itchy. I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, it's a busy almost. Um, yeah, I've noticed that too. And I, I just feel like the news gets more and more absurd every day to the point, like when I see breaking news, I'm like, oh, okay, like the Pope is arguing with the president again. And like also, like, like Trump was supposed to say the image was doctored, but he said, I'm a doctor. I can't make this shit up. Like it's so fucking stupid that it's like, okay, I get it world, I get it universe, I get it god or source or whatever. Like this shit is crazy. I'm like, is it what are we doing? What are we doing? - Yeah. - What's next? What's the plan? It can't sustain itself, right? Google how long can an empire last? Can't sustain itself, not with this fucking clown bag, like pressing. - Clown bag, more buttons. - Clown bag pressing more buttons, that's a great image. - Help. - Yeah, no, I don't know what it is, but I'm just feeling a little weird. And I'm feeling like, I don't know, it feels like this should be a moment where I'm resting, but I don't feel rested at all. Even though I've been sleeping a lot better lately than I have in a long time. I'm waking up earlier, like for fun. Like before this, if we recorded 10, I woke up at like eight and clean the whole house. Like what's happening? But also, I just don't feel. Maybe your Virgo Rising is being activated. - Yeah, something on my to do, my actual to-do list is just going off. But I need a Leeson speed dial, I wish. - The. Also, I'll say one of the other reasons I drink this week is because this is my last week of this ASL class before I move on to a new one. - Oh, exciting. - When we, I don't think this was intentional, but I happened to count up all the words that we've had to learn throughout this. - And it was. - You just happened to? - Well, I was trying to make a study guide for myself because this week coming up is our, not a test, but it's where we're expected to like, be speaking kind of. - And here at Virgo Rising. - So you made a, yep. - So I made a study guide, which. And we have learned 800 words, just crazy. - That's a lot. - Yeah, and then the very next week, I'm starting my next class at a different school with different people. So I'm very nervous about that. - Because you're going to a new school. - I'm starting a new school. - I'm going to a new school. - I'm getting a new thing to weigh this. - And I'm also, I'm upset because this will be the first time I'm taking the class without people I know because all my friends joined this one with me, but now that I'm going to another school, I should leave one of my friends behind. - Wait, why are you like accelerating? Why are they not going with you? - Just because it's, this is the end of the class, but I just want to keep doing it. - Oh, they're just like moving on and you're doing it. Okay, yeah. - And so they were like being held in remedial class. - No, geez. - No, the school that I do it at, which is very lovely, it's in Burbank and it's literally, I mean, I'm already, I'm going to be gone now. It's called the Burbank Adult School, but it's literally a school where you can like take a bunch of different courses. - It's so neat. - And so it's just for adults, but it's literally, it looks like a high school. It's very weird like walking the halls with other adults. It feels like you're in high school. - Like redo. - You're like cost playing high school. - It feels like I'm cost playing high school, but it's very nice. They have a lot of different categories of classes, but I've been trying to do like a bunch of enrichment classes. Like they also have a tar class there and stuff. So it's been a lot of fun, but I have, they don't have any more ASL classes after this. So I have to go to another school. So now I'm, I'm joining PCC. - What's that? - Pasadena. - Pasadena. - Oh my god. Isn't that where Al took woodworking? - Yeah, we're both students at PCC. - Oh my god, I love that. Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. Do you get a student ID? - I don't know, I haven't looked yet. I, 'cause I only registered last night so. - Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. I mean, I'm taking a watercolor class, but it's online, which is more my speed, I think. I just, that I love an in person sometimes. Like I think that might be my next step. - In person has been so much more helpful 'cause I know if I were doing it online. - It's hard to keep, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It would be like, well, just pause it or mute it or go into the bathroom. - Watercolor, it's sort of like, I'm weirdly fixated on it right now, so I'm doing it every single day. And it's like, if I weren't that interested, the online class would not work, but. - Yeah, yeah. - No, but also, that seems more peaceful, like. - It is, yes. And it's also very like offline, like analog kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. - With ASL there, there's someone in my class that goes to the dog park, so we've also been practicing together, which is nice. - Oh nice. - I think it's been nice to do it in person. - Gold. - No, it's not the 12 year old. Imagine if I signed to him, look what the cat dragged in. - Look at the cat. (laughing) - Hey, wait, what's cat? It's probably whiskers. - Cat is whiskers. - Oh my god, yeah, whiskers. Like, look, is this look? - Yeah. - I'm just like making shit up. Look what the cat can do. - I don't know what drag then is to do. - I know in, I don't know drag. Err, err. (laughing) - I will ask my teacher on the last day, what does drag to mean? - Yeah, I've grown up. If I've grown up said that to me in public outside, I would be like, mom, hell. So, yeah. - I get it. - Him and Hank have gotten along in the past, but yeah, anyway. Anyway, I'm done talking. - Anyway. - That's why I drank. - Yeah. Anyway, I have a story right now. - Are you kidding me? - Anyway. - I don't know why I can't just transition smoothly into anything else. - 'Cause I won't let you. - Right on top, we would like to thank EmbarkVet.com for supporting and that's why we drink. If you go to EmbarkVet.com, you can save $10 on the breed and health test and get free shipping with promo code drink. Obviously, I've talked before that I was able to figure out that Hank is mainly rot-wilder and Bernie's mountain. He's also majorly conqueror spaniel, and then he's kind of an assortment of other things, including German Shepherd and Chao and Pomeranian somehow. That's crazy to me. 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Go to EmbarkVat.com to get free shipping and save $10 on an Embark breed and health test with promo code drink. That's promo code drink to save $10 today. - Leona, as I've said before, is such a picky eater, and you know, we're working with, they were trying to work with her on that, and it is its own thing. We're navigating it just fine. However, I do worry often that she might be missing out on some nutrients that she's simply not eating. The moment she decides something's not for her, like, it's gonna be tough to go back, okay? Most parents are not aware that 50% of kids suffer from hidden hunger, which comes from picky eating, processed snacks, a lack of the vegetables and fruit we just don't have enough nutrients sometimes. So if that's your situation, it's certainly mine. First day, daily multivitamins. This is so lame. I get emotional when I talk about it because every morning Leona wakes me up and goes and gets mommy vitamins, and because they sent one for me and one for Leona. And it's like become this routine, this tradition. I've never been so on top of my daily vitamins, and I'm like, wow, we're so healthy together. I mean, they're pretty wonderful. They're clinically observable, family safe, actually effective, and for a limited time only, our listeners are getting an insane deal, use code drinks to get up to 57% off, and a free gift with code drinkfursay.com. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them that our show sent you. So I was just on a trip with my mom, and we were talking about, you know, what we do for fun and what we do on our phone. We were comparing our apps, and she, on her own said, oh, I've been using this one thing called Rocket Money. Have you heard about that? And I went, well, you just told on yourself that you don't listen to the podcast. She might have had too much secondhand anxiety hearing you talk about financial was. But then I found out that she also had them, because, what you say, the albums fall far from the tree. She was all of a sudden like, I had no idea that I would sign up for this thing. I had no idea I would sign up for this thing. And with Rocket Money, now it's all handled. Oh, I just found out I had a bunch of annual subscriptions so they weren't coming up. And then Rocket Money was like, hey, babe, like you just paid another hundred some bucks for this and I went, and so thankfully they were able to cancel it for me. It is a game changer, guys. If Linda's on it, we should all be on it. Rocket Money, in case you don't know, for some reason at this point, if you're like my mom and you skip through our ads or something, Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. It is truly a game changer. Two generations in this family can agree on that. - It's wonderful. - Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com/drink. That's RocketMoney.com/drink. RocketMoney.com/drink. - I have a story today and it's in Michigan. - Ooh. And it is an area called Alligan, Michigan. - Alligan. - Yep. - And even better. - It's called-- - Even better, I can't get better than that. You can't be serious. It's called the Alligan County Sheriff's House and Old Jail Museum. - Okay, loving this energy already. - Loving it big time. - I really wish that they would come up with like a class year little name, like Alligan County Sheriff. - I kind of like how many words it is unironically. You know, it's like, it doesn't really realize it's way too many words. How do you spell "alligan"? - A-L-L. - Hey, I'm. A-L-L-E-G-A-N. - Oh, yeah. - It looks like allergy to me. - It looks like aligainy, but without a Y. - I did hear other people say "alligan." - Alligan. - Interesting. - 'Cause I would have not said it to them. Never heard of it. - Anyway, it is, yeah. It's a, the Sheriff's house in Old G.L. Museum. So, what anyway, that is a museum now. It was once a combined Sheriff's house and Old G.L. 'Cause now the Sheriff's house was in the G.L. - Well, he was a jail, now it's an old jail. - Now it's an old jail. - Because now it's been a new jail. - And now it's an old jail. - Now it's a new museum of the Old G.L. - That's exactly right. - The Old Sheriff's house in Old, Old, Old, Old, Alligan County. - Right. - Older, Older, Michigan. - Now that's a catchy title. - I'll let him know. - Thanks. - So, this is in the historic district of Alligan. And fun fact, this Sheriff's house, Old G.L. Museum is built right across from, or it was built right across from the courthouse at the time. So in 1905, a courthouse was built, they needed a jail. So right across the street a year later, they made the jail. So you can just walk the people to the people. - Easy peasy. - Easy peasy. Also, I imagine things have to be walkable. 'Cause it was 1905, and in my mind, that means there were no cars. - I mean, back then, I feel it, 'cause I had done that, research on Pearl Bryan, I don't know why she's always on my mind, which is just probably-- - She is. - I think about her a lot. And-- - I'll tell her. - I talk to her in my head a lot. Don't worry, she knows. And when Alonzo Walling and Scott Jackson were hanged, they were hanged at the courthouse right near where I live. And it's so weird because it's still an active courthouse, but then the gallows are now just like a beautiful garden. And it's like, the jail was right there too. So everything used to just have a lot more heaviness. And now it's like, oh, this is just the courthouse and it's official capacity. Like the-- - Yeah. - The down and dirty stuff happens elsewhere. But-- - It's weird to be with a lot of gardens where once gallows. And I'm like, now I can appreciate this. - It's like, isn't this nice? And it's like-- - Like, I don't know what to be. - Yeah, yeah. I do. I'm like, let me sit in there. So the courthouse was built in 1905 across the street. In 1906, this jail was built. Again, the law at the time when jails were being built was that the sheriff or the warden or whoever had to live in the jail within what a perk of the draw. - I know, that was like such a weird punishment or like law, I don't know. - I'm actually getting buried to someone here like, oh my god, he's such a great cat. She does live in jail. He's not in a tent, but-- - He lives in jail. - He's a tent, but he lives in a prison. - But all of his neighbors are prisoners. So, fun fact, when this jail was opened, it was considered very advanced purely because it had hot water and electric lighting. - I'll take it. Honestly, it's 1906. I can't imagine you're really getting a lot of good things. - You just told me there were no cars. And now you're telling me this place has electricity. So I know. - You know what? Maybe the inmates are living high and mighty compared to everyone else. - Maybe they're driving around in porches and you don't even understand. - That reminds me of like the squirrel cage jails, where a lot of the locals like freaked out because the inmates had a bathroom, like a toilet. - Oh yeah. - And like the town didn't have like, usually have toilets in like the residential homes and so they were mad. - You were making perfectly good resources. - They were mad at the inmates. We're living the rich and famous life because they could go poopy inside. - Yeah, must be nice. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - So, did you like how I said that? Go poopy? Do you like that? - You know, and it's also like they can go poopy, but like they have to. - They have to go poopy inside. - I know. - They're kind of stuck in there. They can't go outside like you can. - Fuckin'. - That's a great point. - You can go outside. - With the great outdoors at your disposal. - Yeah, you can go poopy with a view. - You can poopy with a view anywhere you want. (laughing) - Fuck yourself. - Sometimes I'm brought back to seven years old and it's the funniest thing in the world. - So then I'm like, I'll come too. (laughing) Like I just learned English at that age, so I'm still figuring it out, but poopy is one I do know at that age, for sure. - You know, we are to say, but when you were the first person, I didn't know like what to call like hangs under carriage and you said weenie and now it has become the staple of the. - I said that when. - You said it at some point. You said something about like, I think when he came out for the first time, and he started to get it. - Oh, I said oh, it's like. (laughing) - And so you actually named it. And so now, 'cause I was like, what do I call that? - Oh, what a honor. - Anyway, now it just does poopy and weenie, so. - There's so many worse things it could be, so I'll take the win. - I, yeah, I don't know what, I don't know why I even said that, especially publicly on air for everyone. But I clearly don't remember one minute of it. - If you needed a fun fact about yourself, you didn't know. - I needed a little, yeah, a little ego boost, thanks. - Yeah, okay, how did we get here? - No hot water. (laughing) - What was it? Oh, hot water. - I feel like I've been hot water for even talking about weenies. - Pooping inside, pooping outside. - So, enough bathroom talk. Don't be disgusting, Christine. - I'm sorry, I can't get my head out of that sewer. - So when it first opened, it was very advanced, 'cause I had a hot water and electric lighting. And the sheriff's quarters were in the front of the building, make sense, that that would be where you first go, but before you imagine having to walk through the jail to get to your house. - Yeah, that'd be all right. You're like, "Oh, welcome back to my place." - Yeah, imagine coming in for a drink. - It's being like, "Oh, everyone, come back to my place, we do have to walk through the jail cells." - Yeah, let's practice for the school play in my room and then like, (laughing) Oh, God. - So it makes slime. - But first you have to walk through. (laughing) - Let's go watch "Skevity Toilet." (laughing) - Okay, I'm back to my notes, is everyone ready? - I wish it would stop getting so distracted. - Me too, I told you, it's a weird day. Okay, so the front of the house is the sheriff's quarters where his whole family would live. And then by the way, imagine being the wife of the sheriff, and not only do you now have to live in jail, but also it was customary at the time that the sheriff's wife was the one who cooked and cleaned. - Yeah, like had a managerial role in the jail. - Like what a bad gig. You must really love this man. - Yeah, it's sort of like the first lady, but like the worst sort of outcome of that. - Oh, the worst version. - Yeah. - And like the last, like the last lady. - You don't even get to leave to go see friends. Like you're expected there all the time. You have to cook that many meals. - Yeah, then they gotta, it's probably gruel. - It has to be just the upkeep of it. - Yeah, there's no way, that's just unpleasant. - And by the way, I'm sure she gets paid zero dollars for this. - Oh right, well, it's her duty. - Oh, yes. Sorry, dude, yeah, I need to stop. - Please. (indistinct) - My vocabulary. - In the sheriff's quarters were apparently multiple parlors. So I guess he was actually living not in that bad kind of a way. - Yeah, multiple bedrooms. He had a kitchen, he had a dining room. And then also this was just noted and like really not a big deal, but it sparked interest in me is that he also had a keeping room, which I had not heard of. Do you know what a keeping room is? - I feel like I've heard that, but I don't know. - Apparently it's very common in colonial houses. Essentially they're just small rooms off of the kitchen, which I thought like, oh, like a pantry, but apparently it's more like a family room, but attached to the kitchen and it's a bedroom. - No, maybe the purpose of it, it's like the size of a bedroom it sounds like, but the purpose of it was to keep family warm back when houses would only have one fireplace. I guess the fireplace would be in there. And it would kind of keep you warm, which is how we got keeping. But it would keep you warm and you were close enough to the kitchen that you could still like keep the people who were cooking like either the hosts if you were a guest in the house or your parents, they would be cooking and you could keep them company while also staying warm, but staying out of their way in the kitchen. (laughs) - I love whatever the hell that is, that's hilarious. I wanna know the reason behind why such a thing was needed, like the kids are underfoot, like I don't know. - I don't totally understand it. I tried looking at a few different sources about it and then the company that gave me the best information was Southern Living about how keeping house fun. - Oh, that's funny. - Coming back. Oh, they're coming back. I guess so. - I guess so. - It sounds like a panic room when it's cold out. - I don't understand. - I think my understanding, if I moved into a house and it had a keeping room, it's apparently much more common these days that it becomes a little room where you can be in the kitchen, but also keep an eye on your kid when they're doing homework. - Oh, so it's sort of like the modern day equivalent of like, oh, you have like a little kitchen table and you sit at the kitchen table and talk to your parents while they make breakfast or do your homework. Okay, so it's sort of like that, like ancillary space that's not like a dining room. - Right, okay, that does make sense. I understand that. - It's like a little sitting space where you're in the kitchen, but not in the kitchen. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that makes sense. A lot of people also keep like supplies in there or like you used to like a desk to write, I mean, I've taken a shirt out of Southern living. - You're like, like you said, and I'm like, and then you say, I took that shirt out of Southern living. I was like, thank you. - Oh, well, you were saying like, I remember you were saying, it just makes it probably pretty smart though, yeah. - Yeah, I was really actually the smart thing that we said. - Thank you. So they had a keeping room, fun fact, along with their parlors and whatnot in the jail on the back. By ending up, or what, sorry. So by going through the front half of the house, here in the Sheriff's rooms. And then when he gets to the back, there are three floors of cells, including solitary confinement. So it shifts really quickly. I wonder if like, I wonder what the entrance into the jail looks like. Like, is there like a middle room, like a mud room between them? A keeping room? I would hope that there's something to like make sure that it's all locked up tight, so when you go to bed, they can't just waltz in, you know? Yeah, it feels like they're making it very clear the delineation between the, this guy and the prisoners. Like, I think they're making the delineation very clear. So you're right, there's probably some sort of buffer. But it goes from carpet to linoleum totally, you know? There's no way that there's not like a middle, middle zone. There's got to be. So one of the solitary confinement cells, this like this got mentioned in only one source. And I was like, why are we not talking about this everywhere else? One of the solitary confinement cells is connected to the furnace and was known as the hot box. Ah, because it was a quote punishing sauna. Ah, the only place I've seen this is on cat dog. And they ended up in like an outhouse that they got cat dog. Wait, oh, I thought you meant that was like the source where you got that information? No, well, the first time I ever saw that was in an episode of cat dog where they like it like they're, I mean, it says punishing sauna, but it was like your sentence to sweat basically. I hate that. And that show used to scare me a little bit. I love cat dog. I didn't tell you that episode though. I still think about it. I know. I think that it like some sensory stuff from that show really stuck with me like being sewn to a cat. There's that one for sure. Okay. For sure, for sure. The top two floors are just for the main population, but the basement cells were where I guess hard-ing criminals or more violent criminals went. I'm assuming that's also where the hot box was. I can't imagine. That just sounds so fucking terrible, which is just a point. I hate also that it like kind of seemingly happened by accident. They built the solitary confinement and one just happened to be by the furnace and they were like perfect. That sounds just so bad. So the top two floors, main population, when I say the the basement had more like violent criminals, I don't know, violence the right word, but just more people who've committed more major crimes, I guess, because mostly inmates at this jail were petty criminals. Okay. Okay. Which I guess is that's if I were a sheriff and I had to live in a jail, I would sign up for the one where I'm living with the petty criminals and not like violent criminals and I there's a door between us. Yeah, agree. A great like maybe larceny, not like murder murder murder. And this was 1906, so some of the petty criminals were like insanely petty, like insanely not even a crime like you're an orphan. That's a crime. Yeah. One of them was like living with somebody out of wet luck. Right. Right. Right. Like hell, I'll keep the door open between us and the jail. Now you can live in my house out of wet luck. My house is a jail. Another one was shoplifting. One was being drunk criminal mischief, which is vague and mysterious. And I love it. Love that. Having debt. Like I mean, these are all people that have probably been in my house. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. You live in a right right old jail, a veritable jail. I mean, sure. I'll take it. Yeah. I've invited all those people into my house before. So in 1962, which is only, I don't know, like 56, 58 years, after only that amount of time, the jail was starting to show its age, which is interesting because they'd done renovation since when they first started the jail. There were only spots for 60 inmates. And then by the end, it was like nearing like 200. So they clearly renovated, but it was still out of shape. I don't understand. Maybe that was overcrowding though. Maybe. I did read that like eventually their max capacity was, or maybe it was okay. Maybe they like added an addition, but then like the whole thing, just I don't know. Maybe okay, well, if you think about it, it was built in what 1905. And they added like electricity and water for that time period. Like imagine six years later, how much that would have to be like torn out and we're totally right. And even think about electricity, you'd have to like some, I mean, not that I know anything about it, but I mean, the laws absolutely should have had to have changed at some point. I imagine the technology alone, you'd have to really got the whole place. Yeah. That's a great point. I hadn't even thought about that. So for whatever reason, we had seen growth, but it was now at beyond max capacity and the building was getting older. So at that point, they're like, well, should we just build a new jail, which I feel like if, oh, less than six years ago, you were building this thing, put a little more time into it. Or whatever. That's just, I mean, I just feel like they must have not done a very good job. Like, six years is not a long time for a place to be falling apart to the point you got to make a new one. Like, what are you doing? I agree. Maybe in 1906, they were just kind of slapstick in this thing together. Right. Maybe they didn't think it was going to be, I feel like this always happens in those old towns where like it, the first jail, they were like, oh, we thought there would be one criminal in town. And it's like, girl, what? Well, they thought only 60 people. And I guess it was exactly. But also again, because it's petty crime, it's like, well, were any of them really criminal, so were you going to show them your lardos? Yeah. Um, at the same time, speaking of things changing, the law changed where Sheriff's no longer had to live in. Oh, thank God. In the drill. Imagine being the last sheriff who had to, and you're like, what the fuck? Or imagine the people who've been living in the like solitary confinement or the hot box or the normal cells. And then all of a sudden, the sheriff leaves and that doubles the square footage. And now people have lived where the parlor was in the parlor. And then in the greeting room or waiting room or whatever the fuck. I know they would have just put cells up, but I'm sure there was some sort of like, those were at least the updated cells or the cleaner cells or the, yeah, I'm sure that was the renovated part of the building. Also, I'm so sorry. I have like, remember when I said these were pajamas, I was at a toothpaste stain on my shirt. And those were the worst. They look the worst. And then when you, when you rub it and it like gets worse. So now everyone who's seen me kind of surreptitiously trying to get rid of it, it's now like bigger. Um, I apologize. It is toothpaste. So now everyone's going to go back and just in the time code and just watch it slowly. It's really a lot of scratching on my shirt. I'm sorry. And I'm going to stop touching it now. Okay. Here we go. Well, at any rate, by the 1960s, they were like, okay, new jail time. We don't want this one anymore. Okay. And so they at this point, which is so funny that early on, the reason they built the jail here was because there was a courthouse across the street. Right. Now the courthouse has been demolished. And so when they needed a new jail, they just built it across the street on top of where the old courthouse was. Right. So I think that's fun. I was like, Oh, now the jail is where the courthouse was and the only reason the courthouse was here and the jail was there. Anyway, really, can we not move from this fucking street? Do they have one street? And maybe that they're like, it's just we own the property, you know, I guess so. They're like, let's just keep going. Law and order over here. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So a year later, 1963 or 1964, the Alligan County Historical Society took over the jail. That was sitting abandoned now across from the now new jail. Mm-hmm. And they were like, well, this is a great place for us to run our historical society from. So we're going to turn this into a museum. So it's not just a museum of the jail. Although that's included because the cells are literally fucking right. You kind of have to. But they're they, I think they originally just took it on to preserve the jail. But since they were a historical society and wanted to have a place to keep all their like preserved documents and collections, they were like, well, we have this whole building. So it ended up turning into a jail exhibit, Sheriff's Home Exhibit, and then also the literal 10,000 items they've collected about the county's history is also on display here. So it's like the whole town's museum. Yeah. Counties. It's like it's sprinkled into like the fact that this was a jail. Wow. Okay. Um, and fun fact sense this place closed. It's also been used as like a filming location a few times, but maybe we're not projects I'd heard of. So maybe I'm just bad at movie history, but I didn't write any of the products down. Mm-hmm. It wasn't interesting to me. Sorry, everyone. Clearly. Um, so the museum shows the sheriff's quarters. I think I don't I want to say like as it was, but I don't think that's true. I think they just kind of have left some of the rooms to look like what the quarters would have looked like. And then they use that as the area to exhibit all of their collection as a historical society. Okay. Okay. And then the jail itself, they've restored, I don't know about restored, but they've touched up two of the two main floors, but in the on the basement floor where the solitary confinement cells were, they did not touch that. So like all the carvings into the walls are the same. Oh, spooky. Including there's like this old scratching above one of the cell doors. It says home sweet home. Yeah. Agreed. Um, so a lot of the jails, the jail cells look as they did. And they actually have one set up as what it would have looked like in 1906 when the jail opened, like with the old G cell would have looked like interesting. And then they actually turn some of the other cells into like little sets, which I don't know how I feel about that, but it's kind of, I imagine cool. They probably had to do it for the gimmick of getting people in there. Um, they turned some of them into sets of what other areas of town would have looked like also in the early 1900s. So okay, with it's awesome. So one of the cells is like a barbershop in 1900. Another one is an attorney's office, a dentist office, a school room. That's such a clever idea. I think if I were running a historical society and I wanted people to actually come see what life looked like a hundred years ago, and you have a whole building, I get why they would have been like, and the cells are individual rooms, you know? That's really cool. If I were the ghost of the jail, the inmate that lived in that one room, I'd be like, "I can't even sleep here anymore because now it's a bunch of. " I'd be like, "Helia, now I've got a reclining dental chair in here." Maybe they're like at least a change of scenery. And some quilts or something. Yeah. You've convinced me. All right. I will say one of the sets is like an old courtroom. I think. Also, I think those prisoners are not like in the afterlifes. I know sometimes they are still there, but like, get out of there, hopefully. Get out of there. Hopefully the door is really so open. They know they can walk out. That would help. Please. In the set that looks like an old courthouse, which I think or courtroom, I think it's supposed to look like how the original 1905 courthouse across the street looked. Okay. But, this is a fun fact, and it's also a quote. In the old courtroom setup is a record book listing the verdicts in the senses of each person convicted at the jail. Isn't that fun? That's really interesting. It's certainly fascinating because then you can at least see like, "Oh, this person was here because of this thing." That's really cool. And, on top of it, the historical site keeps a lot of antiques here from the county's history, although some of them are odd. Tell me more. One of them is like a vitrola player. One of them, some of them are like World War II uniforms, which I'm sure have a lot of energy to them. They're also mannequins, which immediately freaks me out. One of them, this is a quote. They have debris from an 1865 ship that sunk in the area where all the passengers died. Oh, jeez. And then another one, this is another quote, "Civil War art made with human hair." Oh, jeez. So, you can see we're very quickly turning into like, "This is spooky shit." Yeah. We're getting into like, some accidental witchcraft situation, too. Yeah. And the hair, I will say, they think that the hair is from like, people who the artists loved. Right. Like some people would make like dolls or things like that. So, it is a very witchcraft, like you said, it's not like just a random hair. Have you seen that meme quote that I just saw the other day was like, "Oh, you don't believe in witchcraft. Okay, give me a lock your hair." It's like I'm going to start saying that. Okay, give me. Give me. You know what? I love it. Give me, give me. So, all of this. Oh, okay. I was right. All of this is in the sheriff's home area, so the front of the building, which again makes sense if you want people to see it immediately. Here's all the antiques. And then when you go back further into the jail, you can see all the old cells. And then the exhibits and the jail cells. So during the jail six years, there were five deaths inside, although I did not see anywhere with those causes of death work. I'm assuming they were inmates, but they could have also been like the sheriff or his wife died in the house. So that is what leads us into the ghosts. So in the front half where the sheriff lived, people hear footsteps specifically in the sheriff's bedroom. People also see an apparition working in the kitchen in the dining room. And apparently this apparition is also set off the motion detectors by itself. Yeah. It's thought to be a wife of the sheriff, that was that lived there because again, she was supposed to do all the cooking. For some reason, we, not for some reason, I have a reason, but a lot of people, although we don't know which wife of a sheriff, we think it could be the best guess is the wife of sheriff, Runkle, crazy name, and her name was LC Runkle. And we think it was her because her stove is still in the kitchen. Oh, so maybe she's like attached to that somehow. Exactly. And at the time, like I said, it was customary for her to be doing all the cooking. Apparently, someone did the math and her time as the sheriff's wife living there, she would cook on average 24,000 meals a year. Like this is what I'm saying, like don't, like get her out of there. Like she doesn't need to be attached to this fucking stove. Also sure, if Runkle, if you love her, don't, don't make her live there. Make her go somewhere else. Don't marry her. I hope she like is out of there now. I hope it's just residual, you know? Yeah. Can you imagine like you made 24,000 meals a year, probably didn't get paid. You had to live in a jail for love and then for like, and now you're still there? Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. Forever. LC's a glutton for punishment. I tell you. Sorry. So, and so people think that it's LC when they see an operation going through the kitchen and dining room for good reasons. However, remember, this is also like essentially an antique display now where a bunch of people could be connected to things in that house, especially like the tragedies and the shipwreck, I mean. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, throughout the building people also, or especially in the jail cells, I'll say people feel really uneasy in the cells, although I would argue anyone would because you're in a fucking jail cell. People hear voices on EVPs, but also just as clear as Dave horrifying. Mm-hmm. It seems that some of the mannequins are haunted, which I'm going to get to in a second, but I want to finish this first. Throughout the building people also hear RC streaks of light, batteries die and equipment. People have been grabbed in the cells by cold hands. People have felt faint and dizzy. And now I'm going to tell you about this mannequin. I just wanted to get through the other cell first. So one mannequin in particular is in the sheriff's bedroom. And when people are near it, it's child-sized, by the way. Oh my God. People hear footsteps running around it, like a child's running around it. That's what I was afraid of, because I remember you saying footsteps and I was like, "Tell me it's not connected to this fucking mannequin." Oh my God. Or the clothes it's wearing or something. But people hear child-like footsteps running around this child-sized mannequin and when they've looked at the mannequin and then gone downstairs or something and came back, the mannequin is wearing different fucking clothes. No. This is like Robert the Doll. I don't like it. That's an Annadale shit. Robert, then it. Robert, then it. Literally, I cannot actually imagine being alone for- And you know what? And you know what? Sue me. I'm volunteering for the community as a member of the Historical Society and all of a sudden the mannequins are changing their own clothes upstairs. Is this some sort of reality show, like punked, like get me out of here? Just like that, I'm no longer on the Historical Society. I give zero shits all of a sudden about the history of this beautiful town. It's that simple. One investigator actually found the mannequin inside- she was like, "Oh, I wonder where the mannequin is. I wonder if it's been moved." We don't know how or what happened and it could have been as simple as another staff member did this, but she was like, "Where's that mannequin?" And she's actually sorry, she's not a staff member, she is one of the paranormal investigators that has been there a few times. And she was like, "Where's that mannequin?" And she found it locked in a closet with a chair underneath the door knob as if someone tried to lock it in. No. No. And I don't know what's worse if there's like a ghost that locked it to a mannequin in the closet or a person saw something so scary it locked it in there. And didn't even bother like sticking around to explain it. Yeah. She literally was like, "Oh my god. God." Like, it's just eerie alone just to be like, "Why did someone have to lock this in? What were you supposed to say about it?" Do you better believe I see a chair under a door knob? I'm not finding out if the mannequin's behind it. I'm not finding out. I'm not finding out. Somebody else fucking find out. I never need to know. No. I saw a chair with a door by the chair underneath the door knob, I'd go probably made a good point. No. Yep. Got it. You're probably under something. Yep. Got you're onto something. I trust you. So the same investigator, her name is Kathy, by the way. We love her. By the way, if Kathy Condor is her name. If you hear this, thank you for talking about this place because the article that interviewed you was the one I got the most information out of everything else was on. Oh, I love that. Kathy, thank you. Kathy really hooked me up with some good stories here. So one thing Kathy did, another time she was investigating, she found an old sailor's navy cap on the floor. And she learned later that it was Sheriff Runkles and she found in the middle of the floor in the ring myself. Okay. She's clearly got some, she's getting at like some connections to this house. You know what I mean? Yeah. A lot is happening. Well, the even creepier part is like, okay. So she found his hat and she's like, well, okay, he was a sheriff here. Okay. That makes sense. That is how I would be here. Um, around the same time, this is a quote, staff found the same sheriff Sheriff Runkles portrait had fallen off a wall with a glass smashed. Like, what does he want? Yeah, he's clearly trying to say something and I don't actually know if I'm interested in hearing it. That's right. It's like, thanks, but no thanks, I think like, oh, your portrait just threw itself off the wall. The glass shattered and now your hat is just sitting in the middle of a room for someone to walk up to. Again, it's like, you probably had a point. I trust your judgment. I'm going to leave it at that and walk away. You know, I would just go, you're right. Whatever you need. You are right. Whatever you're talking about. You're right. Um, people also apparently experience activity at all hours. It does not matter if you're in the jail cells or if it's a dark out or if the lights are off. Kathy literally said, the sun really doesn't keep paranormal. activity quiet. Well, you're never safe. I think in the article, she also said something about how like she's never been there. And I'm getting all these stories from her, but in the interview, I think she said she'd never actually been there when it was dark. So this is all happening during the fucking day. Okay, well then maybe I would open the closet with the chair underneath it. I would, I think I would. I know, I think if the sun were out, I would do it. I'd slip you a tent and say, have fun. And tell me what you say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be a sick room stay and see a fresher. She did say, she also said that she'd been in the, or maybe she'd been in the house when it was darker, but she'd never been the jail cells at night or something, but she was like, I don't need to. I've seen enough. I know. Okay. Yeah, it's enough in the daytime. The most common ghost here though is a little girl that is seen and heard throughout the front and the back of the museum. Maybe she locked the little boy mannequin in the closet. Well, you know, it's crazy. I don't, because I associate her with the sound of a little kid running around that mannequin. And like maybe playing dress up with the mannequin and that's why the clothes are changing. And if it's a little kid mannequin, maybe she's like playing with the kid, like playing with what looks like a kid. Yeah, she's like pretending like she's or playing a dress up for her or something. That I think makes more sense than the mannequin having a, whatever, anyway, go on. It's certainly scarier when I'm like, oh, this mannequin changes itself, absolutely not. But if there's, if the most common ghost is a little girl, and you're stuck in that house for whatever, that she's like playing dress up or changing it or running around and then she knows like, it'll get attention. People will be like, what is that? That's such a, sorry, I just swallowed my own, but that was crazy. Yeah. In case anyone heard it, that was what was going on. I heard it. OK. I think that that's probably most likely what's happening, that like she's just entertaining herself for eternity, so she can make sense to me. I wonder though, well, we're about to find out. I don't have to wonder. I literally did these fucking notes. OK. She is known to follow people around. One of the other members of the historical society, his name is Scott. And he has said that she's nine years old. And she is quote, very mischievous running around and pulling on clothing, which makes me feel like, I mean, she's yanking on people's shirts. But if she's mischievous running around, pulling on clothing, people hear footsteps running, the clothing changing on the mannequin. And she's very mischievous. That would be something that mischievous kids do. There's three things, yep. He just described her. Yep. Scott goes on, and I wish he hadn't, because I guess they were asking like, oh, how do you think this little girl came to be here? Was she a sheriff's daughter? What happened? Scott says, and this is a quote, because I wasn't going to rewrite this. Well, an old Bible was donated to the museum. And unbeknownst to the Donator, we found an envelope pressed inside of the Bible. And inside the envelope was a flower and a lock of hair. And it's believed the hair belonged to the little girl, because written on the outside of the envelope was dear little So-and-so, a flower from her grave. What? The F? So they think that it's her, that's how she's gotten her. It doesn't say dear little So-and-so. So So-and-so is, I think, the redacted name of the-- Understood. OK, OK, OK. Although he went on later to say that people who have investigated have, because he knows the name, he just hasn't said it publicly. But investigators have come to him and accurately guessed her name later after it's OK. So it sounds like she is chatting and willing to share her name. Wow, wow, wow, wow, OK. I feel like that they have that little litmus test on, like, how good is this investigation crew? Like, I'm not going to tell you the name. You tell me what it is. Is the intel correct? Yeah. But so they think that's how she got here, which I love that she showed up in the building. And she was like, what can I do to kill time? And she found that mannequin and went, great, I'm a seamstress. I'm a fashionista. Step aside. Move out of my goddamn way. So she-- they were like trying to figure out, OK, well, what's a little girl that died in the area? Because we only have her hair. We don't know how she died, though. And I guess there's records on a few years before the jail opened. Actually, there was-- there's a lake nearby in the little girl drowned. So they're guessing that it's that girl, but we really don't have evidence of that. And she's also been caught on camera. People have seen her near one of the antiques they have as a doll collection. So she's like, hang out with the doll. She's playing dress-up. She's just had a goddamn blast, actually. Yeah, she's clearly having a fun time. People also hear her on EVP. They always hear a little girl voice. And people have even heard her in real time saying things like, behind you, right here, and I'm sick. Oh, honey. Although staff have tried to keep her name private, investigators haven't able to guess it when she told them. And one thing I do appreciate about this circle society besides keeping her name private is that they do not hide away from the fact that this place has ghosts. They actually have said that they think around seven spirits are always there. Whoa. And they have a lot of paranormal events to be hosted there. They always make sure to say goodbye. And they're way out for the night because they don't want anything following them home. So they're big believers. Love that. And that is the Alligan County Sheriff's House and Old Jill Museum. Wow. I like that. That's one of the ones I would investigate. Because there's no portal that's going to make me feel depressed for the rest of my life or whatever some of these other places have. Like, it feels like they're just human spirits. Yeah, they're just hanging. Like, kind of causing some mischief. And you know what's interesting is it sounds like the-- if there are spirits of inmates, they stay in the jail cell area. I wonder if they do still think they're locked in there. Because nothing up front has sounded scary at all. But then again, the inmates weren't necessarily violent or anything. They were like living together out of wedlock. So maybe they're also up front. We just don't know who's who. Maybe. And maybe there's just like the general energy of some of those people kind of lingering, manifesting not like real people stuck there. Let's hope. Let's hope anyway. Let's hope. Nice. OK, awesome. Well, I'm going to pee as usual. I actually have something today I found for a half hour. I found I was doing some research on my new-- on my house. And I found a very funny like newspaper clipping of somebody who lived in my house. And I was like, this is insane. This person, if they're here, like, still in the home. And I found a clipping about their wife, also in the newspaper. Oh, I'm so excited. OK, so I'm going to read that when we get back for a year. OK, VRB. OK, well, this is finally the time I get to show off. Because I didn't even watch my hair today, but look at it. It's looking good. I'm sensing the difference. I love me so beautiful. Oh, maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe it's Miss Christine. OK. And the reason it's even impressive is because I have very, very, very thin fine hair naturally. So to me, this is very voluminous. But it's nothing to write home about for me is a big deal. So thank you to Neutrophil for being such a long-term sponsor. I just love you guys. Neutrophil is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. And it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologist, and Christine. Neutrophil's hair growth supplements are peer-reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. I have recently also joined the Neutrophil train. And so far, so good. But I can't wait for my several months in results. Oh, yours are going to be crazy. I have recently also been going through a bit of a hair loss situation. It is horrific because I did not see that coming for me. But Neutrophil has helped me out. So I appreciate you. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See, visibly thicker, stronger, faster going hair in three to six months with Neutrophil. For a limited time, Neutrophil is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Neutrophil.com and enter promo code drink. That's Neutrophil.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L. dot com promo code drink. So Alson is thinking about joining the like art fair market with all of her jewelry. jewelry. Oh my god. And so she made this little table, and she put a sheet on top of it. And I was like, where'd you get that sheet? And she said, oh, in the cinema closet. And I went, it has to be a different sheet. You have to use a different one because that's my miracle page sheet. You cannot use that for your table and your booth. I need that to sleep. I need to just sleep. Miracle made sheets. Listen, they're inspired by NASA technology. You wanted to go to the craft fair without NASA inspired technology sheets. Like, no, I need to, I need them to be clean so I can rest my head on them because here's a thing. They are temperature regulating. OK, that's true. Yeah, that's true. She doesn't need that on a table. That's true. All of a sudden, I'm not sweating. Use the other ones. Use the other ones. Use the other ones. No, you're right. Come on, Christine. They're antibacterial. Come on. Come on. They're smooth, breathable, ridiculously comfortable. And that table does not need to be company. That table is OK without it. And also, like, that table is not a five-star hotel. Like, what is she trying to prove? Thank you. Thank you. No, the table does not deserve it. I deserve it. You deserve it. Upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to trymiracle.com/drink to try miracle made sheets today. What color did you get? Because I got the green one. It's so pretty. I got the navy because I just can't resist. I love it. But I can't. You'll save over 40%. When you use promo code drink, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free, three-piece towel set. They make an amazing gift, Allison. And with a 30-day money back guarantee, there's no risk that's trymiracle.com/drink. Code drink at checkout. Thanks to miracle made for sponsoring this episode. OK, we're back. I'm in a weird mood now. So that's good for everybody. I just got really mad at newspapers.com of all things. Like maybe you know what? but maybe the clipping was from like, ancestry or something, you know, like maybe I'm looking at the wrong, do they do, they don't do newspapers. - They're linked, they have, they're owned by the same people I think, 'cause if you sign into one, you sign to the other. - I have like the same account, so maybe I like saved it there, whatever, I'll find it. Now, just, I'm just irritated, okay? - Oh man, Christine needs to take a breath, take a breath. - It's a Uranus in Gemini thing, okay? - Yeah, sure. - Oh, here we go. So I had my, and when I say my, I mean, our lovely second book out on a coffee table in my house, because I had been looking through it, and my daughter walks up and says, Mommy, that's way too scary. I don't want that in our house. And I was like, I was like, hey, Mommy wrote that. And she said, I don't care. And she didn't want it around. So I brought it upstairs to my office, which is where I'm allowed to keep my belongings. The rest of the house doesn't really belong to me. Like a stone castle, that's exactly. - And Mommy gets a room in the turret. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, up here where the AC doesn't work. So that's for me. And while all that was happening, I was flipping through the book, trying to prove to her, it wasn't quite as scary, although it didn't work, because there's like murderers and knives and ghosts and stuff in it. So yeah, you're right, it is a little scary. But I remembered that we had written about South Dakota. And my brother just had a friend in town who had been talking a lot about South Dakota has family there. And I was saying, like, oh, I've always wanted to go. I don't know much about it, but then I said, oh, but I have written a chapter about South Dakota in my book. You know, so this is-- - I'm sure you loved that. - I was like, so you've never been and felt like you could write a story or writing about it? - Exactly, right. And I said, it's on my coffee table over there. It's super scary if you want to look at it. Yeah, so I was just bragging about it. And for that reason, I thought, why not cover it today? I was at a loss for what to cover. And Leona convinced me that our book is super scary. So I thought, let's do it. - Thank you. - This is a story out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And do you remember what you covered, by the way? I went and looked at it for a second. You covered the story of Mount Marty University in Yankton, South Dakota. - Sure. I thought I had a great time doing it, too. - That silence speaks of all you. (laughing) Okay. - Before you get into your story, can I tell you a fun thing about our book? - Please. - Allison texted me the other day and said that the cashier at Grosje Outlet knew our book, but did not know our podcast. So it was the first time we'd been recognized as authors before podcasting. And neither of us were even there. - Gasp. Okay. Did I, I told you right about the time that I was at the bookstore and somebody picked the book up out of the shelf and like, talked to her friend and I was like, this is proof I'm in a simulation of some kind. Like, this is a test, you know? Like, I don't know what's happening. And Leona literally goes, that lady's reading your book. And I'm like, trust me, I've clocked it. And then they turn to the back and go, oh, it's a podcast. And I'm like, oh my God, this could go so bad. This could like, shatter me for eternity. Whatever it's, I have a similar story that I don't think I'm pleased I've already told mine. - Well, it feels, it will feel braggie. So we're just gonna have to leave it to that. - I love that. - Let's just get it out there. We were New York Times bestsellers. Let's just say that. - It's not. - It's for brag, it's a fact. - A fact and it is a brag. I mean, what a nice little place. - And while we're fact telling, we were also USA Today, bestsellers. - Sure, we're good for you. - Good for you. - So I was in a bookstore one time and they had a typewriter out. And so I was like messing around with the typewriter and the guy came over and he was like, oh, you working on a book there? And I went, I don't know, it'll turn out to be like just kind of making small talk. I was like, I don't know, I'm just kind of present buttons. And he went, well, maybe one day he'll be a bestseller. And I did not say I am because I would be so good. - That would be, but that would be so good. - But I was like, I want to say it so bad just because like, when would I ever get that moment again? But I'm not going to say it. So I didn't say it. The literal next week I went to a bookstore and somebody said, oh my God, I want to try to remember the exact words. Oh, it was so, I don't, I'm going to put a trip. But basically I ended up seeing our book on In Barnes and Noble and I went to go buy a copy of it because I bought it for people to be fair. My aunt said she wanted a copy so I was buying a copy. And I tried to make a joke where I was like, oh, the person on the book, like, I would say you get to Alessons. Like the person on the book looks pretty similar to me and the person who was checking us out. So I'm like, oh yeah, that looks like it could be you and like, oh, you could be a bestseller one day. And like I said, somebody like, oh, well, they're bestsellers. I wanted to be like, it is very other I didn't say. - Wow. - Anyway, it really threw me, but in that moment I was like, I feel like, what are the odds at twice in two weeks someone would imply like, oh, one day you could be them and I'm like, I am? - I think the universe is asking you to own it. - I owned it to myself and I pat myself on the back. - That's good. - That's so mean. It would be so, I don't sound so happy to a stranger. - I don't think so. I think if a stranger said to you, if I said to somebody, yeah, maybe you'll be like, America's next top model and they were like, oh my god, this is so weird, but I was America's next top model once. I'd be like, holy shit, that's crazy. You know, like it would never be like, why would you say that? That's so fucking right. - Sure. I think I'm just paranoid about how it would come across. Like in good company, obviously, you know what I mean? - It's like imposter syndrome and you don't want to be like that guy and like, honestly, you don't necessarily want to just start a conversation like that with somebody you don't know. Like maybe you don't even worry about it. - If it weren't amongst friends and I'm allowed to like, - To make the joke and look kind of like, and everyone knows that I-- - Everyone knows that I-- - I don't want to say it. Blaze would have been like, well, look closer. - You know, if my mom were next to us when it happened, she would have made me sign it and then she would sign it and then handed to the cashier. - I don't know. - She would sign it first. - Let's be real. - She has signed more of our books than I think we have. - Don't doubt that. - She came to one of our shows and while she was waiting for us in the green room, she signed people's books and I was like, you didn't even write that. - Like who gave you the, what? That name doesn't even exist on the book. - No, I don't know. I don't know. It feels like we can end this now 'cause I feel like I'm, I don't know, I have imposter syndrome. But it was, it was, I was just going off of you that like where are the odds two times in a row, somebody said something where I could have leaned into it and I was like, no, I need to be better than that. But I felt it in my chest, I was like, good for you though. You know, you know you were a best seller and you can walk away owning that. - I think you can say, I think next, I think third time may be experiment. (laughing) - That's okay. - Third time. - If it happens again, maybe the universe is saying, just try saying, oh actually, this is so awkward, but like actually I, I don't know, try it. - If it happens a third time, with your permission, I will give it a shot. - Yeah, okay, we'll see. - But anyway, since we don't say it enough, very proud of you that we're both, that's where there's a lot of you too. I mean really it's, if you ever need someone to hype you up on that just text me 'cause it has shocking to me as it is to you. And I'm the only other person who understands what you're feeling in the exact way. So you know, it is a very surreal and humbling but also like ego boosting but also like surreal and like kind of. - It's always disbelief. - Yeah, like it feels just, it's hard to reconcile. Like with the rest of life, I don't know. - Anyway, sorry, shame was plugged to our book, I guess, damn. - Yeah, both of them. I mean, I started it by saying I keep the book out on my coffee table, like, I mean to be fair, there's like 75 books on my coffee table because I'm constantly just moving piles of junk around trying to organize my house. So it's not like there by itself, but I do have access to it. So when someone says, oh, I'm from South Dakota, I'm like, well, I wrote a best-selling book about South Dakota. - You at least always have a conversation starter. Like South Dakota, South Dakota. What did I say? Oh yeah. - And then I go to Google Docs, My Chapters, and then I do Control at Command F, and then I suit it. That is what I did, but I had to get the book out to actually see your funny quips. So I have this as well, 'cause I'm gonna tell this. - I have to leave you that. - You know, I was surprised, I know I said this every time, but I was surprised I hadn't talked about this because it feels like I have, and also it's just one of the oldest kind of crime stories I've ever covered. So let's get into it. This is the story of Harry Lacey. It takes place, like I said, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and it takes place only four years into South Dakota's statehood. So that's pretty crazy. It was 1893, which was 133 years ago. And Sioux Falls was kind of like booming city at this point, right? Like people, I mean, you have covered these towns where people are just like kind of rushing their way over and populating these Alexa play all too well, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, that felt, is that a real meme? 'Cause that was like-- - No. - You just invented that? - I'm just like super funny. - That was like an extremely good meme. - I like it. - I'm also a bestseller, I don't know if I've told you that. - You should. (laughing) See, that didn't count as your third one though. - Am it, okay. - I know, has to be a stranger. Okay, so, right, we're four years into South Dakota statehood. It's a little toddler, just like Leona. baby. A baby. And we're talking 1893. It's nearing October. I'm assuming it's just a beautiful night. When seven-year-old Sumner Lacey walks into his neighbor's house, they kind of look at him and say, "Hey, son, what's up? What's wrong? What you doing here?" Without any hesitation, all he says is, "They're all dead, sir." Oh, my God. What the fuck? Oh, my God. I know. Now, this is probably one of the earliest recorded. I almost said family annihilator, but it's not quite family annihilator. It's more just like a domestic violence. Okay. I mean, it honestly reminds me, which is weirdly tragic as well, of the Constantinos, like similar kind of vibes, but, you know, hundreds of years ago. So it's a weird little, like, justice position. And you did say that we were only four years in the South Dakota existing. Do we know for sure if this was like the first, like, serious crime to come out of South Dakota or like first big murder? You know, I looked into it and there because it was kind of a Wild West area. There was so much, quote unquote, it wasn't, I don't even know that it was crime, right? Because it's like a Wild West lawless land. Violent mischief, but violent mischief, murderous mischief. So I imagine there was a lot of death in. Okay. I mean, you know, people taking land already is going to be caused for plenty of conflict. So, but I don't know. I don't know. This could, I don't think I was able to confirm that it was like the first, you know, in the state, but it was definitely one of the top. And the weird part is like, there's barely any information about this out there. And I actually, the frustrating part was that like the, the really well-written article that I found from that time period was basically the only like super thorough telling of what happened. And I, I had wished like in the chapter, I could have somehow, anyway, my point is I'm going to tell you my own notes, but then I'm also going to read you the article because it's just written in a way where I'm like, you can't translate that into modern verbiage. It's just like so fascinating to hear. This is what I love about retelling it as an episode because now we get like even more behind the scenes. Yeah. Because we were trying to hit a word count in. I know it was frustrating. What you'll never believe this, but we have a tendency to yap. And so when someone gives us a word limit, yeah. Suddenly, it's real hard. And it's like, we've spent our lives making the periods in our essays bigger to like fill space. And now all of a sudden, it's like, we can't shut up. I feel like in one of the meetings we had when writing the book, we were told like, oh, you actually have to like have all of your stories. Didn't we have something like that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They were like, yeah, the other page needs to be used for like graphics. Yeah, otherwise it's going to be a 600 page book. Yeah, that's not happening. So anyway, here we go. So this little boy walks into his neighbor's house, says they're all dead, sir. And just like a horror movie, the man says, well, let me come with you, son. I'll take you home. And we'll see what's going on. Brave. Yeah. Unfortunately, the man that lived next door where this little boy also lived was his father. And his father, Harry Lacey, was dead on the ground with a gunshot wound to the head. So the neighbor, I just like picture it because the guy is holding this little kid's hand. I don't know. Something about it just really disturbs me. I can't imagine what it is, you know. Yeah. Right. Like shooting himself. Good to me. Anything could be anything. Nobody knows. Here's what they found out very quickly. Sumner's father, Harry Lacey, had they called it basically snapping, but I don't really think that's quite how that works, especially when it's like a domestic violence thing. He had pulled out a 38 caliber revolver and shot his wife in cold blood, his wife Clara, and then his mother-in-law, Lydia Bunker, before calmly turning the gun on himself. And his son, Sumner, had stood there and witnessed the whole thing. So at the time, Sioux Falls was seeing this influx of families trying to make a new name for themselves, a new home for themselves in the newly minted state. Harry Lacey was no different. He and his wife, Clara Bunker, who became Clara Lacey, had moved from Iowa to Sioux Falls with dreams of creating a successful business. And unfortunately, the move was not as profitable as it hoped, and he really struggled financially, and being the kind of man who felt very, I mean, it's basically like same old story, right? Like people don't necessarily change that much. He was insecure about certain aspects of his life, like his finances, and his lack of business success. And he took it out on his own family. And that's funny. Remember how earlier I was telling you, um, this is during Yappy Hour, that it's wildtow, things just never fucking change. Like across generations. Like, how is that 500 years ago, or I'm saying 500, that the country was not 500 years old. Hundreds of years ago that that could happen then still happens now. Unfortunately, we'll still happen in the future. That's, I mean, it's true. It's like history repeats itself. But just like someone could be that insecure that you, it's not just like hurt people, hurt people. It's like, oh, insecure people. Murder people? How? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a lot more layered. So here's what happened that we now know. A few years before the murders, Harry's mother-in-law, now, this is also the issue is that like he clearly also has a complex. I wish I could say it was a product of the times, but we see it running rampant today too. Um, he had an inferiority complex because he had borrowed money from his mother-in-law and, okay, imagine like, going money to your wife and her mother when you are already women. Yeah, exactly. Like a hateful person, uh, and a misogynist. So they were really struggling. Um, his mother-in-law had actually sold a portion of her homestead and was pretty wealthy. And she had netted $40,000 for it, which today is about $1.3 million. And a woman like at the time netting that kind of money in the 1800s, you know, you think like holy smokes. I don't know if that was possible, but so proud of her. Very impressive. She sold her, she sold her property, she netted what today is $1.3 million. Uh, and she entrusted almost half of it to Harry, her son-in-law and his brother who promised that they would invest it and carefully grow her funds. Wow. You don't even have to finish a story at this point. I know. I know. That's why it's almost like why do I even, but like the fact that this happened in 18, the fact that the state was brand new and they're like, cool, here comes a man murdering his wife and his mother-in-law. Like, it just like had no time to like sell it. And no time. It was a fetus at this point. And it's like this was the seal of approval, you know, like here. Now it's officially the U.S. of A. Part of the U.S. of A. So she gave half of this money. She entrusted it to her son-in-law Harry and his brother with the hopes that they would invest it, take care of it, have good financial sense because there are men after all, right? And so they can take care of it for her. She started to guess suspicious rightfully so. And when she asked for the money back, he was like maybe later. And the more and more she pressured him, the more and more she realized, oh no, I think he's done something with my money. Her name was Lydia Bunker, by the way. And she was very adamant that she wanted the money to be returned ASAP. No more, what do you call it, beating around the bush. And he kept saying things like, oh, I'll offer you, instead I'll offer you like this prompt. Like I'll offer you, what's the word? When you give someone like a watch and say like, I promise I'll pay you. Oh, collateral. Yes. Yes, he was trying, thank you. He was trying to like give her other securities. So like, oh, you can have the deed to the house or something, you know, and she's like, no, I want my money back because she knows now something is very wrong. Yeah. So as you can imagine, the pressure is increasing. The tension in the house is escalating. His wife, who I imagine is nagging him left and right about losing her mother's half a million dollars. Females, am I right? She is getting more and more insistent that he repay her. And this all came to a head in December of 1891 when a heated argument during breakfast escalated into violence. Clara, the wife, Made what would be unfortunately kind of a fatal mistake in siding with her mother She insisted that he repay her mother the money he owed and enraged Harry threatened his wife with a revolver and He was arrested and find $50 So the end and he went home. That's unfortunately true for now. That's chapter one I was gonna say Slap on the wrist, you know, so for much of the following year Harry lived like in and out of the house So he would be with his family for a while and then he would be living on his own But the entire time he was blaming Lydia for making his life and I quote hell on earth Okay, I don't really believe him and Let's find out Over time the couple reconciled and they moved how how could this not go wrong? They moved in with the mother-in-law So she sold part of the property so they could have money and then he ends up not paying her and is now living in the smaller property with them And there's no resentment at all the right totally right and at breakfast They're having like arguments, you know like this is just a disaster We didn't I wonder how much the mom knew because like I imagine all of that animosity you already have towards him But also he's now moving in after like Threatening your daughter with a gun. Yeah. Oh, yeah, and you're like how could you possibly feel safe to start an argument? Living under the story of right exactly. Yeah, so They moved in together virtually. It was it was like a pair of homes, but they were basically connected The family had what was called a truce and it's like that's a red flag in and of itself if you have to call it a truce, you know And it's not even I would imagine a truce is just like well, we're just not talking about it. Yeah, we're almost just like trying to move past it exactly Well, that truce whatever it was lasted all of one week before Completely shattering and ending up worse than imaginable. So in the days leading up to the tragedy Harry Lacey Did that classic thing where he walked around and I just find this so gross He walked around settling bills, okay, and like It's one thing when you know you hear about somebody who has suicidal ideation and they go around and they're trying to like tie up loose ends and like of course that's your own situation, but when you hear of these stories of people who are planning to murder their partner their wife and their Walk in themselves and they're walking around like Oh, well, I better pay the groucher his dues and it's like You're planning to kill the mother of your children. You're planning to kill somebody a woman like yeah, it's also it's the eerie The hindsight 2020 but the eerie overtones of like he clearly had the plan early on He can't he can't feign that it was spontaneous totally you clearly this was step one of a plan 100% and it was So he settled bills. He returned items. He had borrowed He made some unusual offers like he had a tab at a restaurant and he couldn't pay it so he tried to give the restaurant owner his coat and The restaurant owner was like I don't want Like what world did he come from where bartering is like they know or like just a general trade is enough Like take my coat of the way is like I literally don't want this. Can you just pay me later like? Like is that not so Narcissistic to be like or arrogant of like oh, well obviously he'll take this like you keep doing it One thing like you can get away with it with like your mother-in-law and like she has to deal with you like just stranger It's like oh you want my coat. Don't worry. You want this. Yeah. I don't worry. This will pay my bills like It was on my shoulders like fuck you. Yeah, he's clearly not of this world No, and when you tried to give his coat the restaurant owner was like well, you're gonna need this and he goes no, I won't Hello Hello, and when the guy said no way I know try to be like Gross and with a guy kind of like Looked at him. He was like. Oh, I mean this is my hiking coat So I just won't be needing it Also again Narcissistic to think you can say something like that and like someone's not gonna remember how fucking weird you were being But I guess it didn't matter because he doesn't care and his own life at the end of it. It's not like it's so we're gonna affect doesn't care so On that Sunday evening It's just so creepy. He read the newspaper for a while Then he walked over to his mother-in-law's house and kicked in the back door Lydia passed through the room and before she could even realize what was happening. He shot her and she died instantly Clara his wife witnessed the attack tried to grab the weapon, but he wrenched it free and shot her in the head The entire ordeal was witnessed by their seven-year-old Sumner and his three-and-a-half-year-old sister Lydia Which also was so heartbreaking. No, Lydia was the mother-in-law's name and then Lydia was the little girl 's name too. So they had even named the daughter after the mother-in-law. So like Just the layers of like Freudian bullshit going on here is crazy town. Yeah, and then like to be that Toddler and that little boy and have to watch your namesake and like your mother and your mother and your grandmother Like die and such. I mean, it's just horrific Of course, but so it just adds another layer to it that she was like named after the grandma So according to the children's retelling because of course now there are like the only witnesses and have to fucking Tell everybody what happened Apparently Harry stared at his wife's body for a moment then walked calmly outside sat down on a wheelbarrow and shot himself in the head The calmness is like it's Fucking eerie dude. I don't know why I would prefer him to act like a madman But like I mean I guess cuz I then I could justify it better in my mind because it's just lost his marbles. Yeah, totally totally The euriness is just like a full conscious decision mm-hmm And so calm with it like the stillness of like Because you can do that then you would should lose your marbles. I can't believe I fucking did that But he is just like so at peace with what he's done and then to To kill himself with that like same like just like well I'll take a seat right here and like having read the newspaper a few hours ago not even a few hours and an hour ago It's just like what the fuck yeah, it's it's the The creepiness of like I could see anyone outside Or at the coffee shop reading a paper right now. It's like for all we know he's planning it an hour to kill it Yeah, yeah, it's very unsettling. Why did he not shoot some there or the kids I guess I don't think he had Had it out for the kids. I think it was just he was so done with his with the women in his life And I think probably I mean a lot of times I think people who are this way Act like the kids aren't part of the Situation when obviously they are if it's a domestic violence thing They're victims as well, but like I think in the scenario a lot of times People like this will just be like oh the kids the kids are their own thing I love my kids and it's like well not really because you wouldn't be doing something like this Right, and also if your mentality was like well, I have to kill my wife and her mother because I don't want the judgment anymore Do you not think you're now living children are gonna? Love you they don't love their children that way. They just love them enough to be like oh, I won't kill them You know, they can keep living. It's also the gross. This is like such a side conversation But like it's the added misogyny of like the kids being only an extension of your life Yeah, totally no exactly how I see it is yeah exactly me so Yeah, they're mine, you know, and they can stay at just yeah gross and she's mine and she cannot I bought these blue light glasses from zenny that are heart shaped. Oh, they're saving piece But they're blue light lenses and they're clear, and then when you go outside they turn pink. Oh, that's a good time First of all, okay bisexual. Okay. I gotta say zenny your nail at it your nail wow What a way to have like transition lenses and like it looks cool. That's the vibe. I'm going for oh my gosh No, we are very lucky to be working with zenny. He is an online eyeware shop from prescription glasses sunglasses blue light lenses heart shaped glasses That turns us from blue to pink apparently all starting at under $30. So you go to zenny.com You pick a frame upload your prescription and they ship it to your door So you don't even have to do that going to the mall with your mom and putting on many pairs you don't like and then settling I just gotta tell you zenny optical. It's a way to go if you're ever looking for glasses of any sort really I did get that laser eye surgery, but you know, I still need those blue light and those transitions lenses and it's just a great place to go Yeah, if your glasses are overdue for a refresh now is the time go to zenny.com/podcast and use code podcast 15 for 15% off Your first order and the styles sell out. I'm pretty sure you single-handedly just got rid of all of the heart shaped glasses So don't sit on it. Don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I dot com slash podcast promo code podcast 15 Also don't sit on your glasses So here is the newspaper article because I just I pulled it up yesterday and thought I got to read this because I it says good as I remembered okay Harry G okay so remember how back in the day they had like six headlines of course it's a headline then slightly smaller headline than slightly smaller headline yeah yeah the sub sub subtitle correct so it says Harry G. Lacey shoots his mother-in-law and then his wife he then leaves the house and sends a bullet into his own brain it was not an act of temper but was deliberately planned the murderer settles up his bills before his awful crime is done tragic ending of a domestic trouble full details five that's the titles so I like how the titles back then were just the oops the AI version like the AI spark notes or whatever like 100% wait like over explains you know what yeah I that whole half is just titles yeah that's like layers titles I wonder if that's just like I wonder if newspapers weren't meant to be if the articles weren't meant to be read unless you cared about the specific details and the headlines were just supposed to tell you just this is the news if you want more go here yeah here the other full details like articles were less cared for was like I want to know the headline if I give a shit here's some extra info yeah yeah yeah I feel like maybe that's what newspapers just fucking are in general even today but like in my mind it's like you're just discouraging in this paper I know I'm just describing it but it's like here these days I would imagine like here's a hook to get you to want to read more oh really it was like here's what you need to know I'll give you the whole story in the headline but if you want to hear the beat by beat like you got to keep reading yeah that's so true because now you're right it is like clickbait now it's like yes yeah you'll never believe what happened first I murder of South Dakota history you know isn't that crazy that in 2026 where things should only advance I'm like describing I'm like judging the fact that a newspaper was doing its fucking job like giving you as much as possible I feel like that's the theme of today like we're just like sensing these weird patterns I mean I even started the episode with like every 84 years like something happens and then yeah like oh it's weird how like the watermelon ice cream socials and then now I'm like oh this reminds me of the constantinos everything is just kind of like a weird little shadow and then I'm like what's a newspaper you're like I can't believe they do the same thing now that they did all the way back then yeah but they felt it felt more accurate and loved on and like they were really reporting the news no no I totally agree I totally agree it wasn't necessarily like the AI swap five headlines is a dedicated journalist totally and I'm gonna actually read you the article now so here we go Harry G. Lacey who has lived in Sioux Falls for years and who is known as a bright competent cool desperate man and I'm like what a combo okay yeah what's it maybe desperate meant something else I feel like they interviewed four neighbors and bright competent cool news like just plain desperate oh I'm sorry are we not talking to you get some word yeah like sorry I'm not gonna like respect the dead or whatever okay he was known as a bright competent cool desperate man at 5.30 Sunday evening shot and instantly killed his mother-in-law Mrs. Lydia Bunker and his wife and then putting the muzzle of a 38 caliber revolver to his head blew out his own brains I mean Jesus Christ with the way they wrote things it was not the act of insanity semi colon it was the deed of a desperate man who fancied that he had been wronged by others and it was evidently planned quietly and coolly probably for some days Friday and Saturday Mr. Lacey was on the streets settling up his bills he owed a bill to art to good the restaurant keeper and turned over a clock in payment like he's literally gave him a clock first a coat now a clock like really yeah Saturday he came to the August leader office that's this newspaper by the way which love that self-self-referential Saturday he came to the August leader office and said I owe you a small bill which I am anxious to settle I have no money but will turn over to you some books the books were not taken okay but an arrangement was made under which Mr. Lacey who was an irrigation expert was to write several articles on the subject for the paper so basically an exchange for so that asshole said in exchange for my bill that I owe you I'll write several articles for you about irrigation so by the way fucking boring okay nobody wants that and also it sounds so literally all the way to the day of his death he was conning people he's conning people right exactly he's lying I mean he knows he's going to die yeah so he was like oh yeah I'll help you I'll just take this yeah oh god Mr. Lacey talked freely of the articles and discussed the general theme of irrigation with much apparent interest yeah I fucking bet he did loser you know he talked about irrigation in a way we're like you're trapped and he thinks he's blowing your fucking mind yeah self-important prick 100% later in the day he went to the nickerbocker restaurant and to settle a bill of $13 offered his heavy overcoat in payment Roger Marce and the proprietor refused to take the coat saying you'll need it no said Mr. Lacey I won't want it any longer and as if suddenly remembering himself said it is a heavy coat and I only use it while riding okay no one asked good one yeah no one asked exactly it was finally arranged that Lacey should turn over a few books what is this fucking Amelia Badelia like this is not how the and it's like why are you even settling up your bills yeah I know like at this like at this point you're not helping anyone like you're not it's it's truly again the narcissism and it's it's it's relieving him of something because he believes that he's but like if you're he's doing something he thinks is like an act of martyrdom and it's like you're not even paying the bill dude yeah you're not you're you're helping no one you're actually bothering everybody you're bothering everyone you're reminding them and rubbing it in their face that you're not going to pay them and but for you like something is off my shoulder you're 100% right I have nothing less weird martyrdom yeah oh my god I never thought about like that that's so gross gross yeah I'll write I'll give you my expertise in exchange and now I can sleep at night because I've done what I think is is solve the problem even though and my sleep at night he's basically saying I get to go to heaven now because yeah right like get over it but the murdering of two innocent people has nothing to do with it either you know just I can't believe yeah I goes to show what people think of women it's wild that that's the last thing he ever didn't but okay time for a good afterlife where he went to goodness bunch of men proprietors and said oh I owe you some expertise on irrigation don't let me forget like the massage meeting male approval before he dies but still actually not getting approval from anyone like still just making men also hate him you're right he's like trying to like square up with all these dudes and it's like they're not even like interested like he thinks it's some sort of big gesture you killed the women in your life because you're afraid of them judging you but then but of course you wouldn't try to kill the men who are judging you because they're men you have to respect them but then you're also like not they're not the ones who are causing the problem like you're not clearing the air with any of the men that you're scared of judgment from you're just gonna go kill women because you're scared of their judgment I think he is I think he's so self-important and grandiose that he thinks like oh I better make one final like stop or goodbye or gift on a parting gift to all these people I guess so without even yeah like I don't like I'll never get them like what what was the goal what was the goal besides just doing it for himself you go ego it's sick yeah yeah you go like twist it is sickness it's sick yeah it's fucking sick uh yeah 100 percent so the fact that he wandered around town thinking he was doing some sort of like charity work or whatever to them yeah so he didn't know it's only what I used while riding it was finally arranged at least you should turn over a few books and these he delivered about noon yesterday at three o'clock Sunday afternoon he took the elevator and went up to the commercial club rooms lacy was apparently much confused and disturbed he remained in the rooms but a few minutes and when he came out had a small box under his arm he must have gone from here direct to his house it is located just east of the motor track which runs north and south from the powerhouse to the town just west of the track is the old bunker homestead lacy and his wife were living together after several separations which lacy thought had been brought about by the mother-in-law of course of course Mrs. bunker lived alone in the house west of the track when lacy came home and neighbor was with Mrs. lacy lacy went into the house sat down and without saying a word took up a newspaper Mrs. lacy arose abruptly and left the house her friend also left to go home lacy sat quietly for a moment and then left the house he walked leisurely across the track and toward the bunker house he was seen coming and the doors were locked this is so scary like they locked the doors like unfortunately great job writing it it's a very well well told but and to imagine that this was by the way the reason they even knew any of this was because the little kids told them a seven year old was like and then they locked the door that's a great point that all the information was like pulled by the POV of the child. And I wonder if the journalist is actually writing to induce fear in the reader or if he's just describing exactly what the kid said. I think it really is. I mean, it's clearly a little scared. He was fruity, but that's how they wrote back then, right? Like, that's why I love it. Um, but it says he walked literally, he was seen coming. I mean, this scares the shit out of me. He was seen coming and the doors were locked. The back door was a light one. Harry tried the door. It was locked. He kicked it in, breaking the lock. Mrs. Bunker started to pass from the dining room into the kitchen, just as she reached the threshold, Harry fired at her. The ball struck her back of the right ear and she fell forward dying instantly. Mrs. Lacey, who saw the raised weapon and feared the worst, grabbed the revolver, but Harry wrenched it from her and shot the bullet striking in almost the same spot where Mrs. Bunker was hit. That was another weird thing that they noted in the autopsy reports is that even though they were shot in different circumstances, it was almost identical to where he had where he shot both of them. Like, he had a plan of exactly where to get them. No, no, it was just accidental. Like, he just shot both of them and it was just strangely like the exact same entry wind. I don't know. I'm not trying to be so nitpicking on this, but it is interesting that if he didn't want to harm his kids, he still like didn't chuck them away in a different room before this happened because he's not like, you're right. He's not harming them. He's just not not harming them. Like, they're just not the targets. They're just collateral damage. Right. Yeah, I know. Harry went up to his wife, looked at her for a moment, Cooley, and walked out of the house. This awful act was witnessed by Lacey's two children, one seven years and one three and a half. Lacey then walked out of the house by the door he had entered. About 20 feet from the back door was a wheelbarrow. He sat down upon this, put the muzzle to his right ear, pulled the trigger and Harry Lacey weighed down by his real and imaginary troubles. His soul blackened with the murder of the wife he had sworn to protect of her mother and of himself, passed into another world to answer before another tribunal. Oh, wow. Whoa. They're all dead, sir, said the frightened and harmless voice of the little seven-year-old after he had speeded from the house of slaughter and had been admitted to the house of a neighbor. Mr. Jones took the hand of the trembling little orphan and led him back to the house. There's Papa, he said, as they reached the back door. First of all, what? They're lay Harry. So they get to the back door and he's like, "Oh, there's Papa." And it's a dead body? I feel like he was so young. He didn't even know what he was really looking at. I mean, he knew they were dead, but I wonder if it hadn't. Oh, I thought the neighbor said it. No, it's the kid. I think he's pointing being like, "There's Papa." Like, there he is. Oh, my God. I hadn't even read it that way. Shit. Oh, my God. Okay. I thought it was like because it says Mr. Jones. Yeah. What a weird thing for him to say. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Oh, okay. So the little. Oh, Jesus. Okay. So the little boy says, "There's Papa." Oh, so much worse. He said, as they reached the back door, they're lay Harry. His face quiet and peaceful after the terrible tragedy. Under his right arm was a 38 caliber revolver, three chambers empty, a life for each. The blood had mattered in his thick hair. Into the house, Mr. Jones went, Mrs. Bunker lay on the floor with her arm raised on a chair where she had fallen. The right eye was badly swollen and was black and blue. By the stove lay the body of Mrs. Lacey, daughter, wife, and mother. Her hand was blacked with powder and a black spot was below her eye. The three people were shot in almost exactly the same place. Harry was the Prince of Marksman and he would have considered himself disgraced had he made any misses. Sort of disgraced you by killing himself. Right. Like, first of all, let's not be cutesy about this. So the $13 bill that he owed, by the way, at the restaurant, in today's money I looked it up was $477. So I'm like, he's running up a tab at that restaurant. Totally. I mean, imagine he's like, here's my overcoat, like, please. Yeah. And also, I mean, I just, I that poor kid. And the fact that like, I don't know where this kid was, was he hiding or something? Because how did he witness every single death? I mean, like, that's just so sad. Well, I think what happened is like the in-laws, the mom, the in-laws freak out. They see they, because remember that his wife left the house kind of abruptly when he was home. Like, she probably sent something. I don't know. I don't know. Went to her mom's house with the kids. They're all there. They see him coming. They see him with a gun. They lock the doors. He barges down the door. So the kids are already like something terrible. Yeah, they, she probably froze and just witnessed it from like start of to finish. And then like once he does these horrible things, he, he just calmly walks outside. And then you're like, Dad, and you look out and, I mean, Jesus Christ. It was such a, I had of all the sentences. This was like such a vague, non-descript one. But like, it was just like, obviously, the kid is now, is reporting to the journalist that you just saw like the mom, like, move from one end of the room to the other when he saw the husband kicked down the door or they saw the revolver. And she, you could tell that he witnessed her like immediately trying to recoil out of the room or back away from him and just to know that like she knew immediately what was going to happen. And the fact that he was kicking down the door, I mean, it was just bad. And the fact that you're right. Because the only source, the only primary source was, were these two kids. One's three and one's seven. So the seven-year-old is telling the story. And it's like, yeah, he was the one who knew she crossed the room. He was the only one who knew, like, he's the only one who could be reporting any of these details. So she got the revolver, but then he fought it off with her and to know that she looked at her. And like, he walked over, looked at her dead body for a few seconds. I mean, like, what the fuck? Yeah. So, well, there's that for you. Happy birthday, everybody. Dare I ask what the hell were my quips about this? Yeah, there was only one. Okay. I feel like there were definitely some stories where I was like, how the fuck am I supposed to be funny about this? This was, I think, maybe one of the last ones where we really didn't know how to kind of get into it. And I have a picture here of the book. It was right near the beginning. And it was when summoner walks into the house and says they're all dead, sir. And M says, oh, my god, in my response is so cringe. I'm sorry. Okay. So you say, I'll take the creepiest thing a child could walk into a room and say to me, say to my face for 800 Alex, which I love. And then I wrote answer daily double. And I said, I'd wager at all if I were you. It's so embarrassing. Okay. So that's what I do appreciate because I have another insider tip. I was definitely making statements as I read it for the very first time because I didn't want, I knew I was then going to, it was just going to get worse from wherever I was reading. And I didn't want if there was something early, it was like, get that spot, get the quip in now before we find out what's about to happen because it's going to be pretty. Yeah. If I read any more and then it was worse, I was like, I don't know, I don't even want to be funny earlier up in the paragraph. So I definitely wrote that as a quip the first time I saw that and went, where the fuck is this going? So that's exactly right. Yes. Yes. So that's what happened. That was our only kind of quip for the for the situation. And then I took a picture of the next page, which was your Mount Marty. So shout out to Mount Marty and the Alums or students out there. So that's my South Dakota special. Okay. I'm glad you told me as I am trying to plan my Dakotas trip at some point. Hey, maybe maybe it'll be of interest to you if you if you make your way over there. Yeah. I that's that's the only thing I have to say about South Dakota is that I will be there at some point this year. I love that. Maybe someone will ask someone, maybe someone will suggest you become a New York Times bestseller and you can say, actually, I will literally probably started with I feel really uncomfortable saying this, but I'm supposed to say my friend made me promise try to be really brave and proud of myself. No, I thank you for the permission because I always feel I want to talk about it, but also like impossible. I get it. It's so hard. I mean, and it's like and like I'm not saying if some weirdo is like hitting you up to talk about it, I'm not like pressure you to make conversation with somebody uncomfortable, but like, you know, if you ever feel like, oh, shit, I should say something. I don't know. I know. I usually, if I'm again with my mother, she will make sure that it's said because I'm on my own. I'm like, oh, I feel like being humble is the right way to go, but I'm like, no, I think I. Yeah, you're not not humble, you know, it's like and it's also like a fun synchronicity for them too. And I don't know if they say that. And then you're like, Leona, when I asked her like, oh, do you want to go tell them that I wrote that book? She was like, not really. And I was like, cool. Thanks. She's going to grow thinking that just everyone does write a book eventually. So you know, maybe you're actually encouraging her to normalize that for herself. Of like, oh, I'll be an author. Obviously, the bar is super fucking high. You better become a best seller, you know, one day she'll realize and be like, oh, my mom's cool. One day, I think she'll be like, oh, then anyone can write a best seller now. That's what I'm saying. I feel like you're you're normalizing it for her that like it's I see. I see. I see. Well, hopefully, um, hopefully. Anyway. How how is she? Is there an update for the general public? How what she's into these days and she's she's still scared of bears and wolves that is continuing. However, now we use a little a little potion a little cleansing spray in the room every night to kind of clear the energy and clear the air and I'm not so subtly getting her into the witchiness. That's fine. I love it. You can go into worse, you know? That's what I mean. That's what I think. But we'll see. I mean, and also like if you're going to be into witchy stuff and your mom's going to be into witchy stuff, there's no such thing as being scared of monsters under that. That's right. That's what I said. I was like, there's so much power you have. Like, yeah, you have power to keep keep yourself safe, you know? And I just I want I don't know. This is why I was scared and we're scared of us because they knew that we knew that we had power. Ooh, la, la. That's why they keep the matriarchy down. Any plans for the rest of the week before we record again? I have no clue. One do we record again? I don't know. Okay. You know, I don't think I really have any plans. Just taking my water coloring course, you know? So I'm having fun with that. Are you ever going to show us any of your water colors? Oh, I would love to. I don't have any here, but maybe for a yappy hour. And then, oh, maybe we could do a show and tell. And you could do like your ASL or something. You could do like sure little show and tell. Very cool. I'll make sure to learn the word art or an archery or whatever they'll fuck you're up to nowadays, you know? I do know that this is water and this is colors. Maybe that's water colors. I don't know. I mean, that's so cool. I want to learn that. Sorry. Water. Water. W. Water. Water colors. I don't know if that's actually appropriately water colors, but, you know, it's water plus colors. So I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take it too. So all right. Well, we'll see everybody next week for a show and tell of sorts and drink some water and take your vitamins and your medications. Don't drink the water color water because moonshine does that. And I'm like, that's going to give you a tummy ache. Your throat's going to be green moonshine. And that's why we drink.