E237 - Felicia Cardinal - Grief, Dreams, and Healing

[Music] Welcome to the Grief Dreams podcast, but we have conversations with guests about their life, loss, grief, and of course, grief dreams, which can be dreams of the deceased. If you want to know more about the topic and your host, please visit the website, GriefDreams.ca. To support the podcast, please go ahead and rate it, or additional ways to support the show. Please see the episode show notes. Before I move on with the show, I would like to give a territory acknowledgement. Long before Canada was formed, the Stalo people were the original lands doards, and they have lived here since time immoral. They continue to live in the unseated Stalo territory known to settlers at the Fraser Valley and lower Fraser Canyon of British Columbia. I recognize and honor the contribution that indigenous peoples have made and continue to make to our community and the topic of Grief Dreams. [Music] Welcome to the Grief Dreams podcast. Thank you again for tuning in. So today we have on the podcast Felicia Cardinal. Felicia manages an indigenous clothing store in Chilwack, British Columbia, called Section 35. She is originally from Saddle Lake Cree Nation, and Saddle Lake Cree Nation is a Plains Cree First Nations community located in the Beaver Hills region of Central Alberta, Canada. Felicia was born in Edmonton, Alberta, and raised in and around there. She moved to Chilwack in 2009 with her grandmother, who has since moved back to Alberta. Felicia likes to spend her free time at home with her two cats or connecting with close friends. So Felicia, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. We met before and I always enjoy when people talk about their dreams. When I sort of talked about like this podcast and the dreams aspect of life, you kind of lit up a little bit. And so I really wanted you to come on and talk more about just dreams in general. And then also your grief journey, because I know you've been through a lot. And so the first question I have for you is, how did you really, I guess, begin loving dreams or valuing dreams? Because I know it was a process for me. It wasn't until I was kind of in university that I actually started loving and appreciating dreams. Honestly, for me, I think it started when I was a kid. I grew up in foster care and group homes a lot of the time. So it was almost like when you're dreaming and you're sleeping, it was like my escape, you know, the escape from, you know, being in a situation you may not necessarily want to be in and you're missing people and you're just kind of like wanting a habit connection that you don't necessarily have a control over. So I think it always started at a young age, even before like really losing anybody. It was, yeah, just a way to connect, I think spiritually. And so were your dreams more positive, like, or were they a little more negative and like nightmarish? Because I know like when people are going through a lot of distress, some of the research shows that they have more of these negative dreams. But if you're getting an escape, were they positive in nature? They could have been, but a lot of the times like I suffer from anxiety. I'm a very anxious person. That I think started at a young age as well. And so I would always have like, you know, dreams where you're like running or trying to get away or there's, you know, water, you're just pacing in the water. Things like that, for sure. But you know, there were times where it was positive. That's cool. That's interesting. And how did, how does that go? So did you reach out to anyone when you're having these dreams to try to understand it? You try to figure it out yourself. I know like different indigenous communities can have certain symbols that mean certain things. I'm curious how you maybe if you brought in your culture within it or if you tried to figure this out on your own based on what was around you at that time. Well, I was lucky that one of the homes that I was in at the time, they had a sweat lodge in the yard, which was really cool because you know, it wasn't on a reservation or anything. It wasn't a predominantly indigenous community or anything, but it was something that they had offered to us. And I found that that was like a really good way to kind of sit with it, you know, and just really reach into what those feelings are. It's really hard to understand when you're a kid and you really don't even fully understand the world and you kind of make up your own dialogue for that. But I really feel that that was that was definitely a part of it. As you move forward in life, did you see those dreams change or do you see your understanding of these dreams change in any way? Yeah, I think definitely when I got older, I lost my parents at a fairly young age when I was still in care. I was like 13 when my dad passed and then like 15 maybe when my mom passed. So it was a really rough time for me. And I think after that after those two really big losses, then things started to get a little bit more hectic in my dreams. You know, I had other ways of coping at that age, you know, addiction was a big deal. It was basically that's what I like leaned on. Kind of like further distance myself from any of the spiritual side of things. You know, I had a religion kind of forced on me as far as like Christianity and things like that in schools and foster care. You know, they kind of just put you in church and you know, and then I kind of associated that with the system and distance myself from it. So yeah, it was it was really tough. So definitely during that time of heavy addiction to and a young age, everything your dreams are not usually very pleasant. I heard that and I think it's always hard to because some people like even can dream of using the do dream of using like also in that time. Yeah, definitely. And it's that's a struggle to you wake up and you just feel some type of way about it. And it's you know, even if you've taken like a long distance of sobriety and and such or you know, it still comes. It still comes around and it still feels so real just connecting with that, you know, that kid and you know that was going through those tough times. Right. Yeah. And going back to you mentioned sort of your two of your off their your first losses, but two major losses with your parents. How did you handle that? Like where did you have support when that happened? Like is that because you were at a you were young. Yeah, it was really weird. Actually, I found out first through the group workers at the home was in them. My dad had passed. And then we drove to the city to find my brothers and I ended up telling my brothers. So like I kind of had one on each arm and they're my older brothers. And when I told them, you know, they were like kind of cried on me and I remember I didn't cry. And I feel like since that moment was like my youth was gone. And it was like, you know, a ton to step it up. Like be the big little sister. And that's kind of what it's been, you know, going forward. So still feel that to this day. But I mean, yeah, as far as support, it was just really leaning on my brothers. And so what did that look like? It was just like you're you opened up conversation and dialogue. Was it just like continuing their memory or was there like any other kind of like rituals you do together? Honestly, we just make jokes. We just memories and jokes and stuff like, you know, my relationship with our dad was like he was a really funny guy. He was also quite abusive. He had addiction issues too, which obviously brought out another person. And that was like the one you're not really so connected to. And that's not the one that we try to remember either. We try to think about the good things. It's always interesting when our relationships with the people who have died is complex because a lot of times people just like gravitate to it's one or the other. But relationships are so dynamic and the things and the things people have said and done to us over time. And there's a lot of healing that you know still need to happen. And so it is interesting to see how you process that. And you remember more of those good times when you honor him, but also giving great understanding into some of the behaviors that were happening that say like wasn't directed towards you because you were like a bad person anyway. It was just like addiction does certain things and like trauma does so much and how we treat others around us. And in science how you really see that in a way that I think is conducive to your healing. Yeah, it's tricky too because you know, I feel like I dream more about my mom. It's been a lot a lot of a long time since I've had any dreams about my dad. I think my connection was a little bit stronger with her. It's always like the harder one for me. I think when I dream about her, it's always like very you know almost torturous. It's like you're on the top of a school and you can see her down there and she's facing away but you know what's her. She's got a long curly hair and her son red dresses. You should always wear. And it's like this journey. It's a perilous issue trying to get down the building and you're sliding down up this. You know, great and then you're getting there and as soon as I get to her it's like then you wake up. You don't really get to see her face. And I've had that dream so many times in the past and you know probably wasn't even that long ago where I have other renditions of it but fairly similar like I never really get to be there, which is pretty awful. Up until recently we lost our auntie, which was my mom's sister. They were very very similar and very close and I had a dream when I was with them both at my auntie's house and we were all just sitting around a table and we're all just laughing. And he just felt so genuine and I could finally see her face. So like that to me is like you know what does that mean was she like happy to have her sister with her now like you know is there a piece there like that's kind of something that stands out to me recently. I think it's good to like talk about that like what what are your beliefs on some of these dreams like how do you like process them because I know sometimes people will see every dream of the sea says like a visitation in some way. Yeah, others like don't and so like what do you how do you see your dreams. I see them as I definitely see them as visitation like anytime I talk about it. I'm like oh you know a mom visited me last night or you know my friend Mikey, which was another big loss. Things like that I do see it but sometimes I just think like I'm like you know maybe this is just something that you really want so your brain will manifest what you really desire you know we've all had those dreams about you know money or you know everything's going great and stuff right and then nightmares are like your anxiety. that I think can just take over the positivity side of a dream, right? So I try to see it as a visitation because for me it gives it comfort, like really being able to spend time with somebody and whether or not it's like real. To me, it feels real. And I think it's interesting, like there's that feeling that goes along with some of the dreams, right? Whereas it just makes it different. And it's a different kind of dream. You know, like looking back at your mom, the dreams you had of your mom, where she was facing away. Yeah, how do you see that? Do you feel like she wasn't really looking for you in the sense that it was more like you visiting her? I know some dreams that the deceased visiting the person, right? Like in their own house or room. And it seems like you were like visiting her maybe. Is that how you kind of saw that? Yeah, I think so, but I think it also just comes from again from being in care. And like, you know, she, I think the facing away was like her not maybe putting in the effort, you know, that she could have put in. So there were so many times where she missed visits or didn't show up or went missing. And like, no one knew where she was. And we were just in the dark for so long. And then she popped in, she's kind of like a helicopter mom pop in for the good times occasionally. But, you know, so I always feel like that's kind of what that is. Like, you know, there's no doubt in my mind I have a band of issues, you know, resulting from being in care, not having parents that, you know, did the things that they could do to get you back, essentially. So that's, I think where a lot that comes from since my aunties passed, I haven't had that dream. When I see her, she's with me, she's looking at me, we're laughing. And it's interesting like, so with her and when my auntie and stuff, when I dream of them, it seems real. So you're not even thinking about the fact that they're not alive. You know, you're in the moment, but when I dream about my friend, Mikey, who passed away, it's like, it's always like a shock like, what are you doing here? And he knows and I know. So in those moments, that's when it feels really real when it's real like a visitation because you're, you're almost like lucid. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Could you tell me more about Mikey? Like, who Mikey was to you? Yeah. Mikey, so after my grandma adopted me out of foster care, I moved to the Northside in Emton. And Mikey was one of the first people that I met there who introduced me to a whole string of people on the Northside. And he was just like a really, really good friend. Very, very close. And unfortunately, he passed away. Man, it's coming up probably seven years now. It was just a few days before New Year's, I believe, and it was a tragic sudden loss. And it kind of like the group fell apart. Nobody gets together anymore kind of a thing. And like, he was kind of that guy, like that glue. And so that's, that was always really awful. But it's, I have his picture next to my couch. Like, he's always smiling. He always had that big smile and a goofy laugh and always the best hugs. Like, he was just a great guy all around. So it's like that's something that, you know, he's one of those people you wish you could just pick up the phone and be like, Hey, man, like this is how it's going. And as he was that guy, he would always pick up the phone, you know, he was always there. So that's being like, he still comes around and visits. But like I said, it's like, we always are aware that, you know, he's not there. And it's very confusing. Like, why are you here? What are you doing? Like, yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, the themes, right? Like how they're just different, also for like different people. Yeah. Which I think is fascinating. Also, like your relationships and who they, who they were, kind of like are in this in many ways too. Do you have, have you heard them laugh yet in the dream? Since that was like a cheek care, dude. Oh, you did. Yeah, it's, it's so good. But it's like heartbreaking too. It's like those are the dreams you wake up and you're like, you're like hurt by it. Because it's like a, like I said, you're, you're aware in the dream and then you wake up and you're, it's even more aware. And you're like, where's like my mom? You know, she passed by. I was so young, you've had like so much more time to heal and kind of like go through the motions and then being in care, you know, you, you kind of already used to not having her around all the time anyways, you know, but your best friend that you spend like every day with for years and years and years and was a huge part of like, you know, your youth and your growth in that time, being a teenager and in your, you know, early 20s, like he was really influential to me. So I think it's like different and I just carry it differently. Right. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I'm curious as an adult, like one of the things in that you're, you're, you have done or you do to maybe work with some of that, that maybe a little different than what you had when you lost your parents. Um, I think now I think the difference is like I talk about it where I, where I was would never really talk about it before I hit behind, you know, like I said substance abuse for so long and it's like you just avoid it. And then you just, it just weighs on you forever and drags out all these the turmoil for so long unnecessarily. But I think now that I've had a little bit more clarity and you're sitting with it and you have, I have healthy relationships with people, positive people in my life. I think that can actually hear you. Whereas opposed to just being in, in these rooms with these people that don't really necessarily care about you, they're just there for the good time, right? So it's a really, I feel like who you surround yourself with makes it a little bit different and a lot easier, I think to share those things. So I like that. It's so, it's so important. I think we forget that sometimes like we try to be friends with almost sometimes everyone or anyone. And it's like really setting boundaries like who is there to support you? Like who is actually in your corner? Because it's so important for, for that within our journey, right? So we sort of need people to maintain our joy, to maintain our happiness, to get comforted because life is just so stressful and we're taking like, you know, to the past with us as we move forward and we're going to have great challenges. And to have those people making those different decisions, it's a process. I know for me, like I, like personally, I've had to learn how to do that better over time. Where like I realized, oh, this person's not really in my corner. Like I'm going to have to cut them out. So did you, did you see yourself doing that over time? Like choosing maybe like different friends or different relationships as you sort of matured and as you work through some stuff within yourself. So it's like, oh, wait, like I, I can't have this person at all. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's been like the last, probably, I'd say good two years of my life. Since I moved into my own apartment from my grandma's place when she got dementia, she moved back home to Alberta. So I kind of got my own place. I wanted to stay in Chilalac. I was kind of established here. In the first couple years, you know, you just have parties and you have all kinds of people around. It's like the freedom of, you know, your own space and things get out of hand. But I realized that over time that it didn't really serve me. And you just, you feel being used. It's those energies are so negative and you're not getting anywhere. And then since I started my journey with section, like it's also just awoken up this whole other side of me and just really looking into like, you know, the indigenous culture, side of things. Things I never really explored before, before when I, you know, party times and stuff, you never really like thought about any of that and and and participating in ceremonies and just going hearing the drums and things like that. It's just really important. So with that, yeah, you, you cut a lot of people out and it gets lonely sometimes. But sometimes it's a remind myself that that loneliness is kind of a part of the growth. That's pretty wise. It's really beautiful too for other people that are, you know, on the journey too. It can be very lonely making those significant changes. And because all those people around you, kind of, most of them love you for who you used to be, not who you're turning into or who you are currently. And so to actually have that shift, it takes so much courage and strength. So I commend you on like having that within you to do that. And that you have like said, like new, maybe role models or new friends that are uplifting and also like encouraging other side to you, like with the indigenous cultures and how important that can be for growth. And it's sad that you didn't have that growing up to the extent that you do now. And could you talk a little bit about maybe what some of those are for people who just don't understand or don't know much about indigenous cultures and some of the practices? As far as the practices go, it's, I know, can't say that I do a whole lot. I think it's just really about looking in and reaching out to your, you know, brothers and sisters. And I mean, that isn't, you know, all our brothers and sisters. You don't have to be related, but just leaning in on each other and really exploring that. Haven't been able to have the privilege of doing a sweater, anything recently, which is something that I've been really wanting to do. But for me, I just, I connect with nature, just going outside and really taking an appreciation for what's around you. It's all just right there, you know, since I moved to BC, I sometimes forget we even have mountains because they're just so focused on, you know, this life and you're, and I'm like, just look up. But the sky and just feel it and you know, go to the river, dip your toes like, you know, don't forget to reconnect. We just get so caught up in our day to day that it's so easy to just lose that spiritual side of yourself and that connection with Earth. And I think that's really a big part of it for me. I think in, I know some indigenous communities that like the medicine will like really encompasses and reminds people of that. If not mistaken, about the connection with nature and then different elements of oneself and, you know, I get you words like, you can get so preoccupied with the things in front of you, forget where you're at in the moment. And that's why I, like I said, I live in BC too. People don't know and people see the mountains and just take a minute. It does wonders. And I'm realizing more and more how nature is something that I long for like every day to get out and being near trees and stuff. And it's something that the academic community is actually like doing more and more research on the importance of nature and the environment on individuals. But indigenous communities knew about this stuff and practiced this stuff like way, way back before any of this. And so it's interesting how I think Western research is coming just back to learn what indigenous cultures are. you knew to begin with, with a lot of different things. And so I'm happy that you're able to do that. And could you talk about maybe the medicine wheel if that's something you're willing to do? I honestly, it's again, it's like hasn't really been a big teaching for me. I never had a whole lot of like those teachings when I was young. I grew up in care, so I didn't get a lot of that. I've only really recently started kind of reaching in and learning about these things myself, because I just kind of disconnected from everything and everyone for so long. And now it's like it's new to me. So it's a beautiful symbol. It's important in the culture absolutely. But as I think as far as teachings go, it's not I wouldn't know what to say. And I just know what it means for me and how it makes me feel. The more you talk, the more you continue to realize, not only the grief of the loss of what has died, but so much of the culture like died for you as a kid and trying to reconnect with that. There's a lot of grief that would go along with just not also not having that growing up and looking around. Could you speak to any of that of just like also realizing like not being part of your journey really until now? Like yeah, I mean, I didn't realize how important it was like up until recently, you know, you miss out on so many things of when you're a kid, you don't really know the difference. So for me, it's just looking around at other people who've had it since they were young. And I'm like really wishing for that, especially speaking the language and just like having more understanding for traditions and teachings and things like that. It's, you know, there's always that man I wish that had that. But then again, a lot of my cousins that grew up with that also grew up on the reservations, you know, they didn't have great lives. They might be able to speak crey and they might, you know, have more of teachings, but there was a lot of abuse that came along with that. And I feel like that's fairly common with a lot of places back where I'm from and Alberta. A lot of the reserves are pretty rough. So even though like there's a beside of me that's wishing that I had that, I think, I think just growing up the way that I did maybe has saved me from a lot of situations that, you know, I could have been in if I had grown up more on the rest, but I didn't, you know, I visited there on the weekends, visited my mom and stuff, but I didn't grow up there. I always went back to, you know, a home where, you know, it was somewhat safe, right? So kind of like a win loose type of situation, right? Right. Yeah. When you start looking at it in that way, but it's like how you're in a position now to regain some of the stuff that was not present. And I think that's the beauty of maturing too. We get to make different choices and sort of healing in different ways. And that is really, you know, like in a lot of times, we don't fully know what we need to heal. And, you know, these dreams I feel can really help us in different ways too, like these dreams of the deceased, like I've heard, I've had my own. I think that, you know, that one with your auntie and your mom and like that was such a beautiful thing because like when you see all the, when you're talking, I was like, oh, wow, like all the other ones never had that. And then she finally gets this moment. And like what that may do for someone inside, like consciously of what maybe you think it would do, but also like internally, like what it can actually shift also for you to be able to have like a moment like that. Yeah. And well, you know, what's interesting too is, you know, other forms of grief, you know, not even grieving somebody who's even passed, like I'd mentioned my grandma. She has dementia. So we, we spent so much time together and we have all these memories. And then it's like suddenly, just overnight, it's like they don't know you anymore. And that person that like you've grown to know and love, it's gone. So I find, I dream about her a lot. I know she's just in Alberta in a home, right? But I dream about her a lot. And in those dreams, it's like we have a loose in conversation, which is something that I think I like, I miss. Like I agree all of our, your ability to laugh together. She was so like so funny and just ridiculous. And we just had this connection, you know, and I would, I want to share things with her, you know, just like with Mikey, I want to share stuff. But it's, you can't really because they don't understand anymore. And I think that's like probably one of the more tougher dreams to have because it's still like an active thing in my life. Right. Yeah. Wow. When you think about the loss of just like someone not knowing you, like how heart like disheartening that is because like so much so much of our connection is based on memories, right? Like and for it to be one, it's totally one sided now. Whereas like you have the memories, but they don't, like what have you found to maybe help in that way? Because I like why I say that because my grandma also has dementia. And when I first, I was told that, I didn't really understand like what that meant. I'm like, okay, yeah, maybe she doesn't remember me, but I had always had this like idea that, oh, but you know, I'm special. I still remember me. Yeah, I'll break through the boundaries. And then I went there and she didn't know. It was so sad. I was like, I was like almost sick in the sense of like the feeling there and just like the sadness of just not knowing also what to say. And like you can't do what you normally would do. And it was until the I took some time, like I went back to BC, then when I came back to see her, I had a different mindset going in. And that helped me a lot to processing and having fun with her, but just in a different way. So I started asking her questions on like, what do you like to do? And she'd be like, I don't know, I don't, I don't remember. I don't know. And then I'd like to smoke. And she's like, she's like, no, I'm like, well, you can remember that. Those are cracking up. That was the funniest thing. So it's just like, they may not know, but you can still have fun and do some things like that. So that was for me. That's what helped me. And I'm curious like what's been helping you? For me, I just, I call it the yes game. It's like, you just don't eat. It's oh, yeah. You know, she'd say, oh, I remember when we were all just little kids, you know, running around together. You know, she, she pictures us as we were all children together. And she'll always kind of like throw it scenarios like that that, you know, make absolutely no sense. But instead of being like trying to correct them, which makes it difficult for both people, I think, because it's stressing them out. And then it's also like upsetting you. So it's just, yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We used to have so much fun on the farm and just go along with it. And I feel like that's like the easiest, easiest way to kind of get through it when I get to visit her. I'm lucky that my brother weighed. He he'll go to visit her and he'll have a video call me from, from the home. And she doesn't really understand that either, barely looks at the screen, but just hearing her laugh and just being able to kind of be present for a little bit. A time that's, you know, that's basically how I've gotten through it. And then I guess I just dreams. I just had a dream about her today that we were decorating a Christmas tree, which was something that we've always done. And I've never had a Christmas tree really in my home. I had one, I think I did a tree once since I've been in here, because it's just something about having a tree and not like just being alone is so weird to me. You know, it was something that we would do together. And in the dream, I'm opening up the box. And I have never opened this box in the years that has all our old decorations on it. You know, cheesy little crafts that we made that I held onto. But for some reason, I guess in this dream, I decided to open it and have that moment with her. Because I think I just missed that. Wow. That's so interesting. I don't know any like academic research like in that area. So it's kind of interesting having these very positive dreams of old times together. And also, when you're talking, you get these lucid dreams for your chatting with her. Is it about like current events or is about in the past? What are those conversations like? So it's weird. It's just, it's like it's normal. I think in this dream, she was telling me that her windshield wipers were being weird. And you know, just conversation and she had to drive, you know, she was going to drive out to Cameloups where her sister lives. So it's like we were here in BC. So it's almost like it's, it must be it must be from the past. It must be I'm just recreating something from the past to kind of make it seem like she's still around. And just I always felt a little bit of guilt because you know, you don't you don't assume they're going to get dementia. You think you're going to have more time. And you miss out on things like even small things like going to dinner or no, I'm going to stay home, grandma. I don't want to go or going to a family event. I didn't want to go because I just, you know, like how badly you would just go change anything to go back and be able to have that time and give your head a shake. You know, so I think that's my way of just making up for lost time is like I just kind of recreate memories and moments with her. But I don't have control over it. I just know. And at the end, it's one of those things where I wake up and I feel like it feels good. You know, it's not overly sad. It's like, it's like, oh, that was a good visit, you know. Right. Yeah. And do you see that her soul visiting or would it be not the same as maybe someone who's died? Like, I don't know. Right. Yeah. Cause she's not dead. That's the thing. That's what weirds me out the most. And that's kind of like one of the things that we like, I wanted to, you know, share with you because I find it so interesting. And you know, knowing that you kind of have going through the same thing, it's like, it's yeah, people don't really think about that as far as grief, you know, you're grieving for somebody who's gone, but not gone. And it's very, very strange. It's almost like you're preparing yourself for the end anyways. And in a way, I mean, like, does it make it easier? I don't know, you know, it's hard to say. But that's definitely a big one for me. Yeah. I think most people don't have that right? Like, either it's a sun loss or it's extended, but they continue to remember you, right? Like if it's an extended one. But like for this, it's like, it's someone's this double loss that you, I don't know how you prepare yourself for it. And then like, there's that how long it's it going to be like, yeah, they're getting older, but you know, they could have dementia for years. And not die. And so it's really how do you come to terms and keep your heart open? Like, That's my, it's like how, like I noticed my heart close. Like when I first had that experience my ground, like how can I keep my heart open and still have moments with it, right? Like I don't, I don't wanna feel guilty as I move forward or if she does die and it's like, oh, I never got a chance to show her my love to the same extent as it did when she remembered me, right? Like, and so I think like there's a process in that on how do we work through our own suffering and our own uncomfortableness around it because they're not uncomfortable with us too much. I don't think. - Yeah. - It's more like we're uncomfortable with that pain of just them not realizing. - Yeah, definitely. And I remember the first time when I went to visit her and I think I maybe approached her too quickly and I reached out for her hand and she kind of like pulled away and it was like so jarring for me 'cause I'm like grandma, like I am your baby girl. Like what are you doing? And that was like so hurtful, but I'm like, you have to think like you're just like a stranger. She thought I was a nurse and she's like just give me my pills and get it over with. I'm like, it's not way over here. You know? So it's hard. It is, you definitely really have to open your heart and just like under try to see it from their perspective and just be patient because I think that's just what they need. And yeah, like I said, it just becomes a little yes game and my brother, he's fantastic with her. He's probably better than I am, trying to bring up conversation like you're saying something to talk about, but he can't really ask them too many things because it's confusing. So he's really way better at carrying a conversation than I am. I kind of shut down a little bit until then we start laughing and it feels totally normal again. So it's, yeah, it's tricky. And I think she has good days and bad days, but like I think we all do. So yeah, and it's nice also just to hear them laugh. Like it's just like those sounds, and like you know me and a lot. And if they remember your doughnut, like when my, so I had a similar event where it's like like a want to hug her, but then I'm like, oh, and then I remembered, oh, like this may not seem, this may not be appropriate for her. So I asked her, I said, like before I was leaving, I go, you know, grandma, do you want me to hug you? And she said, no. But I was okay with it. But I was, yeah, I was okay with that. And like my aunt was also there and she started laughing. And then my grandma started laughing. And so it's like, you know, that meant more than the hug is just like to hear her laugh and to have that kind of moment as I laughed because at the end of the day, like she was laughing. Like that's joy. That's something that you kind of want to have those moments with. Even if I can't have that kind of connection. - Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's very rewarding. So I'm always grateful for my brother to be there. He takes the tension off. He's very positive. Whereas I can't say that I'm a negative person, but I think I'm more realistic about things where he's just kind of like, everything's fine. You know, everything's totally fine and normal. And I'm like, what about this? What about this and oversinking everything? But yeah, he helps take the tension off, for sure. Have you asked him about his dreams? If he has dreams of your grandma? 'Cause it's kind of interesting if you're having a certain type and he's having something different. - I think he has more dreams than think about my parents. I'm not really sure that if we've like, yeah, he had a way stronger connection with my dad. You know, they lived through a car accident together and like they've been through a lot of things. And again, like, you know, my dad was an exactly super great to them to us that when we were kids. But he, yeah, I think he's had more visitations like that too. I actually told him that I was gonna do this and he's like, I find that so interesting. And you know, it's like, it's definitely something that's important, I think, to talk about. I used to, I see Wade in my dreams all the time too because he's in a wheelchair. And so there's a lot of times where I'm like, dreaming about him walking. And I'm like, look at you, you're walking. Like, you know, it's not like normal, like back in the day, like it's like, I'm like, oh my god, you can walk again and we were running around and having adventures and it's so cool. So it's like, you know, in a sense, I can't say that I have a lot of grief in that sense, but I know that he does. So I think I think about that and I dream about things where I think that would make him happy, you know? - Do you have any, I guess, tips for people who want to learn more about dreams that you'd sort of suggest if they're just on the, like the journey of thinking, oh, maybe dreams are a little more meaningful. Like, was there anything that you would tell them? - I think like, I think talking to people about it, like is probably the best way, finding like a bridge or a relationship or similar experiences, especially with people that have experienced similar things. You might see some of the same stuff and not even realize it, you know? With my brother, we often dream of my grandma's house on the north side. We had a lot of experiences there as kids. So I think that's a common one. We're always at grandma's house and she's always kind of coming down the stairs and we're always like scattering to put away whatever we're not supposed to be, you know, playing with or doing, right? You know, it's a grandma coming down the stairs or coming home from work in the garage door. You know, that's something I think we share as far as that goes. But yeah, I think just talking about it and just figuring out, you know, where you sit with your feelings about it is probably the best thing. - I like that, I like that. And so one of the final questions that we'd like to ask on the podcast is if you could have a dream tonight of anyone who has died, what would you want that dream to be? - Honestly, I would just like for my family to be together again, you know, there wasn't a lot of instances where we were visiting with our mom and our dad at the same time. They were kind of estranged when we were kids. So I think I would like to dream of them having a positive interaction in the same space, you know, and sharing that with my brothers. It's something that I don't think that I ever get to experience 'cause it's not something that I ever had as a kid. They were always negative towards each other. So I never really had that. So I think if I wanted to fabricate something that hasn't happened before, that would probably be it. Just be with my parents again. - Would it be like over dinner, would it be at like an event? Like how do you kind of seriously that? - I feel like it would be like a barbecue because both my parents, they both love to be outside and they love nature. Like I always, when I'm thinking about a positive experience, there's usually nature involved. Like I'm outside, you feel the wind, there's, you know, sunshine, there's water. All those elements are present, you know, sitting around a fire is a big one too. So I think just sharing food is always, is always a good one and barbecue is, what my mom always used to do was barbecue and my dad loved camping. So it only makes sense that they would both enjoy that. - I like that. I like that. Hopefully you get that dream sometime soon. If you do, please let me know, please let me know. I just wanna thank you so much for, is it coming on the podcast and just sharing a little bit about your life and some of the dreams that have happened? And it's very interesting conversation. Just some of the different types of dreams you've had and also sort of with someone who has to mention the dreams you're having about your grandmother. And it's just like, we need, like this is why I love these conversations because I'm learning like from that and then I'm also connecting to my own life and say, oh, like I haven't had too many of my grandma, even though I know it's a big part of my own processing of my grief. And so it's nice to sort of like hear someone else who's having these dreams and what they can look like. Not so that. So anyways, I want to just thank you again for just, you know, being you and also doing the work and choosing a different lifestyle that may be more conducive to healing in your own journey. So I want to also commend you on making those different choices 'cause I know it's a difficult process to do that. - Perfect, thank you. Yeah, no worries. I had a good time, I wasn't sure what to expect, but it was really good. I really enjoyed it. 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