E200 - Dan Carter: The Art of Winning

Hey everyone, I hope you're well. Before we get going with episode 200 of High Performance, I've got some news and it's some news that I am so excited to share. We are launching the High Performance app and right now we are giving you early access. As a thank you for listening to this podcast. So I guess really the app is the new home of High Performance. Not only is it free but it will go even deeper, it will get you even closer to your own version of High Performance. There will be exclusive content. There will be unique features such as a daily High Performance boost so that every single day whenever you want it, you can get a nugget of inspiration or education from the High Performance podcast. There's loads more still to come as well. But right now you can download the app, you can get access and we're going to start by giving you something really special and really unique. So after our conversation with Dan Carter that you're about to hear, we did a live Q&A with our audience in the theatre at the Hackney Empire and that is available right now on the High Performance app. But at the whole point of creating this podcast was to get you closer to your own version of High Performance and I honestly believe the app for free for you is the best way to do it. So all you need to do right now is either click the link in the description to this podcast or go to where you download your apps. Download the app High Performance and use your unique code HP app. That's all one word HP P for early access to our brand new app and keep your eye on it because there are some really exciting updates to come. Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm J. Cumpfrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, to be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today. You forget to be thankful for all the things that you've got and often you find yourself complaining at all the things you don't have and wish you had and so every night in my book I'll write three things that I'm grateful for. You know that's a really powerful tool that I've had to continue in this life after I be. If I don't have that structure in my life I just cruise and drift through life and that's not high performance and it's not where I've come from it's not where I want to go in the future. I asked the doctor as my will cup over and she said yes and I burst into tears, went back to the hotel room I was at. Angry, I was sad, I was and I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason. But in that moment around this time nothing made sense at all. To be involved in the rugby world cup final help the team make history by being the first team to win back-to-back world cups, be the first all black side to win a world cup outside of New Zealand. A lot of that was off the the loonings that I got from from their injury there so all of a sudden what I believed things do happen for a reason that that was just you know part of the part of the story. So welcome my friends to episode 200 of high performance. I mean I can't actually believe that we've reached 200 episodes in that time we've managed 50 million downloads of the podcast across podcast platforms, tens of millions of views on our YouTube channel as well and before we get into the episode I really just want to take this moment to acknowledge all of you the people who've been with us on this journey the people who are part of the high performance community the people who are understand what we're trying to do with this podcast the people who've shared the lessons and the learnings that they've taken from this and yeah I know that you know we've got senior politicians around the world and people running and competing for and managing some of the biggest sports teams on the planet listening to this podcast but actually it's people like you people who are just getting on with their lives every single day with good days with bad days with struggles with doubts with imposter syndrome with fears you are the people that we've created this podcast for and honestly to get the messages that we get from you makes the world a difference to us. So welcome to episode 200 and what we've decided to do is revisit one of the greatest guests that's ever joined us on high performance so we first spoke to this man Dan Carter one of the greatest rugby players of his generation a true all black legend a couple of years ago and then we thought we need to do this again because we've never had an episode with more downloads more reaction more comments from all of you so we got down in London on the stage at the Hackney Empire in front of 1200 people and we just spoke about the power of leadership he's just recently written a book about it and we delve into some of the key points that are in that book you're going to love this conversation so let's just get straight to it episode 200 of high performance thank you for your incredible support on behalf of myself Damien and the whole team for getting us to this point the most exciting thing is I think we're only just beginning let's get to it then and by the way the crowd at the Hackney Empire were incredible listen how loud the crowd were when we introduced our guest on the stage and the crowd were very excited to see the show on the stage the first time we saw a show on the stage at the Hackney Empire in the first place we were really excited to see the show on the stage [Music] Ladies and gentlemen a hero a legend a leader please welcome to the Hackney Empire live on stage Jan Kauter [Applause] thank you it's quite the welcoming so appreciate it it's great to be here in person you know we were locked up in New Zealand for far too long and obviously enjoyed speaking with the tour you I think it was 18 months ago and the most downloads I've got a week in fission my mother supports me in everything that I do and she's probably listened to that episode about 20 000 times so majority of those downloads were with my mother so it's probably not a true reflection of actually how good that episode was thank you so much Mrs Carter for the support you've given your son well let's talk then about you're the first time that you came on the high performance podcast you know we always start with the question and you know what the question is what is your definition of high performance I've got your first answer here you said I absolutely love the word high performance it just takes me back to my career and for me it's all about controlling your mind so that was November 2021 when I hear quite a lot later how has that changed and and through that time from since we spoke last time I just started working on on the book that you've all received tonight and in my answer in our it's it's a little bit more sort of well-rounded and my answer and it's something I thought about because I knew you're going to probe the question and actually I thought well I better listen to our last episode and with four young kids at home I don't often get a chance to listen to podcasts at home so I listen to the old podcast when I'm driving in the car so a couple of weeks ago when I knew I was coming back on the show I thought right I better listen to the old episode that we did just to make sure I'm not repeating the same old stories anyway I was going to play around a golf about an hour and a half north of Auckland which is where I live now and I was like right actually I'm going to listen to my my podcast you know all learnings around dealing with pressure controlling your mind it's going to be great for my golf game I think I probably have one of the best golf games that I'm ever going to have listening to myself and don't get me wrong I hate the sound of my own voice it was it was awful listening to that episode you know I got up on the on the first tee and just shanked it I hit it 10 metres in front of me but it's all right because I know about dealing with resilience I can bounce back from this I'm stronger taking all these learnings from the setbacks that I had in my career to overcome that first shot 18 holes later had the worst round of golf that I've ever ever played in my life I'm a 15 handicap with normally shoots sort of low 90s I shot 105 get to the end of the round of my mates that I played with going gee what happened there what happened with with you game today I was like shit do I tell them so I tell them that I listen to my own podcast and thought that I was going to have the round of my life and I was like bugger out I'm going to tell them you know what the problem was I listened to my own podcast and they fell to the floor started just cracking up laughing so I'm not really selling my book here so I got to be careful I got to be careful what I say M options for you to be confident or are listened to and still have time. And those are the services that we've been following and actually haven't beencendants. Video games are very useful and thank you for letting me join you to perform this so you can come further and and learn and to those days you can gain trust in, you have a moral responsibility for what you're doing on this and you have a financial firm or what you're going to do either individually or as a team to seek excellence and everything that you're trying to achieve and things that you really care about. So I guess my answer now is a little bit sort of more general than focusing on your mind but still a question I love coming back to. I think it's great though that your definition has changed because it signifies growth, right? And that's what we talk about an awful lot on the high performance podcast and the whole point of the book that you've written is to enable others to grow. So what we thought we would do is you've got kind of the 10 key lessons for life. Would you be happy if we just delved into a few of those and just sort of prodded and probed at some that we think are really especially interesting in the book? Absolutely and it was a great process and a process that I shared with the publishers today and we realized we've been working on that for two years and to finally see the book all come together and I only saw it for the first time on Monday. So it's all pretty fresh and new but just to see it come to life and I just want to point out that I'm not a expert. I'm not trying to tell CEOs of businesses you need to be doing this. I'm not telling you if you do this you'll guarantee success. All I'm trying to share is some of the learnings and some of the knowledge that I learned from playing when I think the best sport in the world rugby for close to 20 years. And a lot of people ask me what are you most proud about throughout your career? And I immediately think of the five year old boy I was when I had role models. All blacks that I looked up to they encouraged me to go out there and live my dreams. And I was lucky one of the lucky ones that was able to live my dream of becoming an all black. So when I had a chance to reflect on my career which is something you don't get to do when you're playing but you know have been hung up the boots I had a chance to look back and what was I most proud about. And it wasn't the two world cups that we won. It wasn't the three world rugby player of the year awards. It was actually I felt like I was able to inspire the next generation of kids rugby players to be able to go out there and live their dreams just like I was as a kid. So all of a sudden I had this passion of wanting to give back. And that was the foundation of this book. It's not telling you need to do this but actually his some information that I learned through being involved in one of the best cultures in sport with the all blacks in and playing in lots of different parts of the world as well. So it's basically just me sharing some of the experiences and knowledge that I learned throughout my career and if there is something to help you with you know never gaining change or if there's something to help you be the best version of yourself then you know I feel like the the book is done its job. - Nice. - Well the book itself that I've invented is brilliant so I'll sell it for you so you don't have to do it yourself. But one of the chapters that really resonated was the chapter on purpose or what you describe as repurposing your life. Would you tell us a little bit about that and why it's so important? - Yeah I spoke a lot on purpose last time we talked about and for me you know I lived my dream of being an all black but that wasn't enough. I needed something bigger than that and I just didn't want to be an all black. I wanted to strive to be an all black great and it's not something that I get to do in my career and go yep I was an all black great. If you're in that conversation it means you had a pretty good career. So that was that was my purpose. And that's what was driving me every morning I got out of bed. How can I strive to be an all black great. So I had real direction, real clarity with with what I wanted to achieve. Unfortunately you can't play sport forever and I'd been hiding from retirement. You know signing new contracts coming back from injuries, finding new ways to to avoid finishing because it was a real fear of what's next. That day came through the pandemic where I was playing rugby in Japan, my family were living in New Zealand, I raced back before the board was closed and then ended up canceling the Japanese season. I knew that was going to be my last my last season and I walk into my son's room and my second son Fox. He was only five at the time. He was like what's wrong daddy? You look upset and I was had some real anger because they canceled the season. I wasn't able to finish my career on on my terms and I was expecting him to say oh bad luck you know it's a shame. You know you can't go back to Japan and finish the season but you see he goes see not going back to Japan and I was like no because oh that's the best news I've ever heard. It gave me a big hug and I was like wow okay they just put everything into perspective and that's the same year I finished my career and when something you've put your heart and soul into for close to 20 years it finishes then you're trying to navigate change and for me there was a real loss of identity. Oh am I now that I'm not a rugby player and it happens with a lot of sports people and now I've learnt through talking to business people as well that they experience the same they just they need change and so that navigation of change was a really challenging thing for me but I had some incredible learnings I spoke to some of my former teammates that had gone through that change I talked to some business people that have navigated change and I was just kind of learning as I was going and I was like I need to document this to be able to to help other people that are going through a similar situation to what I'm going through and it ended up meeting a guy called Kevin Roberts who had worked with individuals business as sporting teams around repurposing and it was quite sort of confrontational he was really challenging me and he made me look within deeper than I've ever looked within before what are my characters what are my beliefs what are things that I'll never do what are things I want to take from my previous life to as a rugby player that I want to take into this next chapter of my life and all of a sudden I had some some framework but it was a really valuable process for me to go through this repurposing process with Kevin it just gave me some framework and some direction to you know to walk towards so one of the questions Kevin asked you that you write about in the book is he challenges you to be able to pull out under plumber which is really interesting evocative phrase what do you mean by that yeah so there was actually yeah read Hoffman who who talked a lot about that and I was lucky enough to interview him and he was talking about the strategy of the poet and the plumber and needing both of those systems to to be in sync you know to completely sort of roles and your plumbers and your poets but working together to to making sure that you know you're striving to be successful in everything's running smoothly within a team environment and then you spoke about when in that same chapter when you attempted to take to be the plumber of introducing high performance as a home school in power and yeah I had a bit of a shocker there so I'd come from Japan you know and I have pride myself on you know world leading standards and values and everything I do has to has to be at a world class level so when we got put into lockdown and the children came home from school I saw that as a challenge I was like right for we're homeschooling we're going to be at the best homeschooling in the world we're getting out of bed we're having a really nutritious breakfast because I need that brain functioning for homeschooling then we're at nine o'clock we're doing maths nine thirty we're moving into our reading right you can go outside have a break go place for football coming back in a 1030 we're going to start some writing and I had this itinerary for them and it was like I was running a military get to the end of the day my wife looks at me goes what the how are you doing our kids and they're at home and I just didn't quite read the situation as well and taking my rugby learnings to to homeschooling was an absolute shocker and I can assure you we didn't go back to to Dan Carter's homeschooling process after that day so it was a bit of a shocker on on my behalf forgetting that they're actually just just young kids and we've all got those those stories about homeschooling so that was one I didn't really execute that well it's this conversation about purpose though is interesting when it comes to you know your family because when you're in all black right the purpose is very clear like you enter a world cup you want to win the world cup so everyone knows that what advice would you give you know people hearing the theatre people listening to this where they're looking for their purpose but they live now as you do it a kind of family dynamic where your partner might be thinking something totally different or your kids might be at all different ages and there's kinds of there's challenges in the real world if you like that just don't exist in the world of professional sport yeah the professional It's a beautiful place because you can be so. structured and disciplined and have things that you're striving for. Something I learnt around sort of my personal purpose in particular was it wasn't about winning a World Cup. That's not purpose, that's a goal that you're setting and trying to achieve. purpose needs to be something far greater, something that you're aspiring to walk towards but you never actually achieve it. So going through this repurposing and I'm still trying to find what it is. The one thing I learnt through having a really clear purpose is I was able to have impact in the sport that I was playing and that's the one thing that I mentioned before that I'm really proud about. So now when I'm thinking about what is my purpose in life, now that rugby's gone, what impact am I wanting to leave on this world and you know, there's different impacts that you can leave whether it's environmental, social, economical, something that I've really cared about is giving back so that that social impact is sort of help me navigate what is next. So I wanted to start giving back to people, hence writing a book, set up my own charity to give back to Dunderprovege Children. I do so mentoring work with young athletes. So that's part of the journey I'm walking towards at this next chapter in my life but it is so much harder when you're not in this little environment like a sporting team. So what is it now then? Can you sum your purpose up in a sentence? To be globally admired in the out of winning. So everything that I do is and it's not something I will achieve but it's something I'm working towards and wanting to make a difference with everything that I do. But then within that you need structure. How does that look? So you know, I'm constantly setting goals for myself each week. I'm making sure that I do what I say I'm going to do. I'm very organised, very planned. Making sure I have balance and it's not all work focused. I'm in this amazing transition. I've been able to spend a lot more time with my family, have flexibility. So I'm still navigating that purpose and growing it. But it's a challenging thing and if you're sitting there going, "What is my purpose?" You know, it's quite a confrontational challenging tough question. And what I had to do was I had to sort of look within of who I am. I even started to look back at my parents and their ancestors of where we came from the little town that I grew up in, our local river, our lake. That's who I am as a person. And once you figure out who you are as a person, then you look at things that you're good at and things that you're really care about. And that sort of helps navigate you to what's next in your life. And when you do become a lot clearer of what your purpose is, I just know that the direction that gives you is, you know, it really does help you go to that next level and elevate you to achieve things that you never thought you'd achieve. Which is one of the other chapters of the book, which is a fascinating phrase, "Waka Papa", which is about delving back into your own family history and your origins to understand the characteristics that you can take into the next chapter of your life. Would you tell us a little bit more about that then? Yeah, that's a big part of the New Zealand Māori Heritage in New Zealand. It's "Faka Papa", so looking back at your ancestors, you know, where you've come from. And we did that with the all blacks. So we'd constantly look back at the people that had gone before us, the incredible teams that had played before us, the amazing history of the all blacks. You know, there were some teams like the 1905 All Black Originals, the 1924 All Black Invincibles, the World Cup winning 1987 teams. In order to move forward, you need to look back and take inspiration and motivation from where you've come from. And that's what we did in the all blacks. And then once you realise that and you understand where you've come from, then you can walk forward. And that's what we used to do in the all blacks. We had this phrase of that all black juicy that you receive. It's not yours. You're just a custodian of that juicy and your soul mission within the all blacks is to enhance the legacy, enhance the foundations that have gone before you. So when you've got in the entire squad giving everything that they've got to enhance the legacy, you know, they're putting their body on the line, they're working hard, they're saying yes to multiple things. They're going above and beyond because when you give that juicy back, you need to know that you have left the juicy in a better place than what you got before it. So I'm interested then when you look back, what is the one thing you found out about your family history that really made you take a step back or that you'd like to share with us? And how did that inform the way that you behave, act, think, then move forwards today? Yeah, I've got some Irish ancestry. I was sure in the house. Which I learned number one team in the world at the moment too. It's a bit of a worry. But I think the biggest learning that I got just reminded me of where I came from. What did that do for you then? It really helped me with my decision making, but more importantly helped me keep my feet on the ground. All of a sudden I've finished playing, I've got all these incredible opportunities in front of me and the temptation to say yes to multiple things and get involved and stuff that I don't really care about. It just reminded me of a really important value in the all blacks as humility. And it just, it does, it brings you back down to earth. And I remember Tyson Fury talking about after every big fight that he has, he celebrates that success and then he goes back to his hometown. And that's the Harry grounds himself. And it was a similar process for me. So you're having success in your life and you're achieving new things and doing great things. But I always felt like I just need to return to my routes, my grass routes. And it just makes me really proud of who I am and it centers me as a person and it just gives me the confidence to go right, I'm going to make my family proud. I'm going to continue the legacy that they've set up for me. They gave me so much as a child. So now it's me to enhance the legacy of my family. Would you mind sharing with us the the ways that you make the decision about who is in your circle or who you hang out with? It's something that people struggle with often. Not just who to hang out with, but also how you make a decision who not to spend time with. You want people in your inner circle that are prepared to challenge you. So you know, if you, you know, you're not behaving properly or you're thinking you're a bit better than you actually are, you know, the guys of your friends that will tap you on the shoulder. So come on, like this is, this is not true to who you are, not true to you know, the person that that I think you are. So family are great people to have because they won't they won't bullshit you. And then been really strategic with your friends. And that's probably the hardest, hardest thing of working out who they are, but I know the friends that I had before I started playing professional rugby. They're obviously proud of the success I had, but they know me as as Dan Carter, not Dan Carter, the rugby player. So, you know, the other ones that will help you keep grounded, keep, keep down to worth and challenge you. So, you know, it's really important having you know, people like that in your group. So can you give us an example, Dan, because you also talk in the book that your success wasn't this linear straight line. You, you had setbacks, you had moments where you disappointed yourself. Was it an occasion that you can share with us when one of these people in your inner circle gave you the tap on the shoulder and gave you a bit of feedback that resonated? We had incredible leaders in the all blacks and, you know, we had this, this real culture of no individual is greater than the team. So all your decisions that you made had to make sure that you're putting the team first. But we're all human, we all make mistakes, we all do things that we regret. And I made one of those pretty early in my career where we flew to Wales and we drank far too much and we decided to keep the party going and jump in a cab and cab to London. There was a place in London called the church that used to open on Sunday. So we're trying to get to the church. So it was about 10 o'clock in the morning on a Sunday morning and we suddenly saw it up and realized what the hell we're doing in London when we got a game in a week and in Cardiff. So we raised back and we got obviously caught out and like this, this environment, you know, it doesn't accept their poor decisions like that. We weren't thinking of the team or putting the team first. So you expect, okay, I'm going to get a bit of a drilling here from the coaches and manager and Tana Rumonger was our captain at the time. So we had a team meeting to work out how we're going to punish the five of us that decided it's a good idea to jump on a taxi and what Tana did is he told the coaches and the management to leave the meeting. He wanted to deal with the players himself and he really drilled us and it meant so much more coming from your peer than a coach. And it was just an amazing example of his leadership. And I can assure you, you didn't want to let the team down again. I felt like I'd let the team down. I felt like I'd let my family and friends down. It was one of the most challenging weeks of my rugby career. And because my mind started sort of thinking, and I was just burning all this energy thinking about what I'd done and who I'd hurt and I've faked and said, man, I've got a test match coming up. So that was actually the first time when I knocked on the door of the psychologist, Gilbert Anoka, the team psychologist. It was like, I need help. I can't focus on the game. I'm just burning energy. I don't want to train. I don't want to play. And back then, I've been playing for the Olympics for three years. That if you're spending one-on-one time with a psychologist, your teammates think you're a bit of a wacko and something's wrong with you. It was amazing because then to your career, if you're not seeing the psychologist, your teammates are going, why not? You want to be the best player in the world. So everyone was seeing the psychologists. But early in my career, 20 years ago, you didn't want to be seen spending time with the psychologist. So what he did is he really helped me focus on the here and now to stop my mind from drifting. And so what he did is he made me write out our 24-hour plan and put in every single hour. What I need to do, every single hour of that day, wake up at this time, breakfast at this time, stretch at this time. So when I found my mind drifting on the mistake that I'd made and the people that I'd heard, and tell me just wake yourself on the leg and go back to your plan and make sure that you're living in the here and now and you're controlling your mind and you're not burning unnecessary energy on things you can't control. So we got through 24 hours, we met again, we reviewed, what times were hard, what were difficult, what went well, what didn't go so well, and then we do another 24 hours. And it just really taught me about controlling my mind, living in the moment, focusing on the process, what I need to do in the here and now. And from that moment, I used Gilbert and the psychologist almost every week to help me prepare the best I possibly could. I went on to have a fantastic game, scored the most points, and all black has ever scored against Wales in that game. And a lot of it was off the back of not the mistake and the piss up, I'm gonna show you that, but actually learning to control my mind. And it was one of the first times that's been time with the psychologist on a one on one basis and the growth that I got from that was incredible. Today's podcast is brought to you in association with AG1. And it is one of my non-negotiables, one of the things that I make sure that every single day I bring into my life. So basically, let me just explain very quickly, AG1, is an all in one multi-bitamin. It has all of the nutrients, it has all of the goodness that I think my body needs in any given day. I know there's loads of different supplements out there. Trust me, I've tried most of them. I ended up taking about nine or ten different tablets, at one point. But what I love about AG1 is that it's over 70 high quality vitamins, probiotics, whole food sourced ingredients. And it's a kind of 10 second part of my daily routine that makes a day-long difference to my life. So I grab the powder, I put it in a shaker, put a bit of water in, shake it, drink it, and that's me done. And I promise you, when I'm not taking AG1, I notice the difference. I'd love you to give it a go. And if you're looking for a simple, effective investment for your health, try AG1. Honestly, it is incredible. Me, my wife, a lot of my friends, we all swear by it. And I've got an offer for you. You can get five, three, AG1 travel packs and a three whole years supply of vitamin D with your first purchase. If you want to take advantage of that offer, just go to drinkag1.com/hyperformance. That's drinkag1.com/hyperformance. It's been a game changer for me. It just might be for you. Check it out. Olen Shannon Maldonado, the founder of Artesaan Institute of Technology, has been working on the project. He was a shopkeeper because he was a professor of the university, so he was a professor of the university. I was also a professor at the university, and I was a student. Everyone was interested in the job, as a student in the university, and he was a sales expert. He was a salesman at the shopkeeper's shop in Komsivust. He was a salesman at the store in Komsov. He was a salesman, and he was a salesman at the shopkeeper's shop in Komsovust. In the year 1990, he was a salesman at the shopkeeper's shop in Komsovust. He was a salesman at the shopkeeper's shop in Komsovust. But there's a great lesson in that, isn't there, that you were dealt this large dose of humility, because you made a mistake, and we go through life trying to avoid making mistakes. But the truth is that without that mistake, the resulting learning never happens. And humility is a really interesting chapter in the book. It is one of the 10 lessons. When I say humility, what do you think of? I merely think of making sure that you're constantly thankful for everything that's happening around you, and the life that you live far too often. We take things for granted, especially in the sporting level. And when you're playing at the highest level, playing internationally, you expect to get free stuff. You expect there to be free food in the changing room. You expect to have the best coaches. And you get just a little bit of hideous often, and you forget to be thankful for all the things that you've got. And often you find yourself complaining at all the things that you don't have and wish you had. So humility is a constant reminder to consistently be thankful for things, don't take things for granted. It's a big part of our culture and New Zealand, to make sure you're always keeping your feet on the ground, making sure that you're leaving places, team rooms, changing rooms in, just as tidy as they were when your first walk done, to those changing rooms. So it was a big part of the all-black culture, and it's a big part of the New Zealand culture. And Harold had to navigate that into life after rugby, so there'd been a challenge. But one thing I learned around that gratitude is actually working on it. And so every night in my book, I'll write three things that I'm grateful for. And I might have found myself complaining for the day, not having the best day. And before I go to bed, I'm writing three things that I'm grateful for, really simple things and often repeat them, really grateful for the health of my children, really grateful for the beautiful son that's shining today, really grateful for the awesome business meeting that I was lucky enough to sit in, really simple things. But it just constantly reminds you of being grateful for the things that you've got, and not minding about the things you have not. So it's a really powerful tool that I've had to continue in this life after rugby. And journaling is something that you spoke to us on the last podcast around how you've pretty diligent at it. And there's a picture that we have of the journal that you wrote before some of your biggest test matches. Almost particularly interesting to me in it was that you almost acknowledge here some of the negative emotions that you were going through as well. Like you speak about before that epic lion's test in 2005, how you were feeling nervous, you were feeling frightened. And that almost flies in the face of this idea that we often assume high performers like yourself. We've got this constant positive thinking that the idea that you don't allow negative thoughts in. And yet we've seen in the journal that's precisely what you were doing. What did that do for you? There's no point sort of hiding or blocking out the way that you're feeling. You almost need to embrace it, providing you've done the work, the preparation, nerves, the good things in my opinion. It means you're on the verge of doing something that you really care about. And I was pretty nervous walking onto the stage tonight. But so what I used to do-- and this is an example of that-- is I used to plan my weeks on a Sunday night and talk about it the last time that we spoke. I was really regimented with what I wanted to achieve every single day. So I had real direction, real structure to help me just go out there and play. But the night before the game, I would write notes like this one here, where I write about how I'm feeling in that moment and not to shy away from the emotions that I'm feeling. And also the way I wanted to feel, just to remind myself to continue breathing, to smile, to have fun. So really simple, clear messages that just would help kind of almost just put a full stop to my week of preparation. So I knew right after that, I don't need to think. I just need to go out there and play and execute and play with freedom, because I've done the work, I've dealt with my feelings. And that gave me the confidence to be the player that I possibly can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] when I was kind of going through that transition and it wasn't playing rugby anymore, and I was a little bit lost, and identity was like, "Man, I've forgotten one thing "that I used to do that was so important to me "in my direction was actually writing in my book." So I was like, "So did you stop that then?" So I was like, "Yeah, for a brief year, a brief period, "kind of through that transition." And it wasn't until I sort of reminded myself that that was such an important part of what I used to do that I wanted to take into this next chapter of my life. So I wiped the old dust off my whole book, so I was like, "Right, let's get back into it." And it was very different because back then I was writing things like extra stretching sessions that I needed to do, extra goal-kicking sessions that I'd do outside of our training plan. So one thing that I learnt pretty quickly that I, the importance of exercise for me, I was lucky enough to be paid for 18 years to keep fit and all of a sudden now I'm having to motivate myself. And I knew that I get a bit grumpy and agitated when I don't exercise, so I knew I needed that as part of my weekly routine. So I write down my weekly training plan of when I'm going to train, just so I can hold myself accountable. I'll also set goals for the week, be really decisive in your decision-making this week or be actually just enjoy the week. Something really simple, just a goal, and then I'd have three or four really key messages making sure you're present at work and present at home, making sure that you'd be nice to people this week. So when I'm writing, and then the last piece was the gratitude that I've write each night and I was constantly reminding myself of my goals, behaviors that I wanted to whack like throughout the week, and then I get to the end of the week, and obviously I didn't have a game of rugby to play, but I felt like I was able to earn my beer. You know, earn my weekend and really sort of enjoy those moments because if I don't have that structure in my life, I just cruise and drift through life, and that's not high performance, and that's not where I've come from, it's not where I want to go in the future. So what are you like in your own mind then when you get to the end of a week where you haven't actually managed to fulfill what you wrote down in your book, or you've perhaps let yourself down or you've fallen short, because I think what we always have to be so careful is to sit and have these conversations, and I think it's really powerful, but there will definitely be people listening who almost feel inferior because they aren't, like, you almost sounds perfect, right? And I think that's a dangerous message to give out, because no one is. I don't achieve what I write every single week. The weeks that I do, I feel that satisfaction is amazing. For example, the family and I, you know, you've got a bit of a crook on the floor, I don't write anything for three weeks. Was I hard on myself then to that? No, it's like, "Okay, you're not perfect, you don't deal with things, but I knew the importance of getting back into writing that consistency and it gave me sort of new motivation, because sometimes in life, you don't always have that motivation, but that consistency, that discipline to stay with it. So at the end of the week, before I'm about to write the following week, I'll review the week. Why didn't you do what you said you'd do? And how do you do the review? It's very general. Even if you're just kind of ticking across whether you were present at home, there's a pass or not quite. So very simple, but you know whether you achieved it or not, and if I didn't for no apparent reason, I'd be quite hard on myself, and I didn't have that satisfaction, but it gave me motivation, "Well, why?" That needs to be a focus of this week. And then every now and then you'd review it and say, "Okay, well, this happened, things that you couldn't control, you don't need to beat yourself up, and in moments like that." But as long as you're seeing constant growth, your mindset of wanting to be better than it was before, then as long as you're moving in the right direction, at what pace it's irrelevant, you don't need to have three months of doing everything that you've achieved to be successful, but just that discipline of going through that process is it something that I've really found beneficial for me in this transitioning out of rugby? There's a lovely phrase you use there about not beating yourself up, and there's a picture that you feature in the book, that you want to share with your hair, because I'm interested in you having a look at it and tell them, "What was going on for you in the moment that this picture in particular captures?" It's in 2011. There's a few emotions that are going through my head right now looking at this. In that moment, it was probably one of the hardest moments of my life, but then now that knowing that that was 12 years ago and what I learned from that moment there has helped me be the person that I am today. To give people a bit of context around that photo is in 2011. That morning, Richie McCall pulled out of the game, it was the last round Robin game of the rugby world cup in 2011. It was my third rugby world cup, so I thought, "Right, that's going to be my last rugby world cup." I'm successful in rugby world cup in 2003. I'm successful in 2007, but the growth that we got from 2007, rugby world cup in New Zealand, and our own backyard, this is our time, this is our moment. I went into that tournament with such confidence. I was at the peak, I was 29 years old, I was at the peak of my career, this is the one. I've been a vice captain behind Richie McCall for three years, but I'd never kept in the old black. I got the phone call from the coach, that morning saying, "You're captain, it was a really proud moment." Straight on the phone to my father, he was so proud, big smile, I'm sure he was straight booking flights to Wellington to come watch the game. I went straight into a press conference, my first ever press conference as captain, so my chest was out, shoulders were back, it was a pretty proud moment answering questions. Then the last training of the week is the captain's run. I'm captain, I get to decide what we do at the captain's run. This is pretty cool, played a bit of touch rugby, went through a few parts of our game plan. It was always really low-key training, 50% speed, and then always finished the captain's run by kicking goals. I've kicked millions of kicks in my life, but my last kick on on this day as I came in and the impact of my boot kicking the ball, I dropped to the ground, and that's what that photo is there. I knew at that moment that my World Cup dream was over, and what I later found out is I tore my dr. muscle off my pubic bone, and we ended up having to quickly race off the field, because the media was about to arrive, so it didn't want me lying on the ground, squirring like a pig apparently. So this was what I served in coach, Mr. Steve Hansen, described it as. I got raced off to hospital. We had an MRI scan, but I didn't want to know the results. It was too devastating for me, so they wanted to come see the results, I was like, "No, I don't want to, I'm not prepared to know the answer." Jumped in the car, went back to the hotel, and in half way on that journey, I asked the doctor, "Is my World Cup over?" She said, "Yes." I burst into tears, went back to the hotel room, I was angry, I was sad, I was. I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason. But in that moment, around this time, nothing made sense at all. Why me? Why such a serious injury? Why now? And the biggest tournament of my life? A day out from the game where I was going to kept in the all blacks? So it was a really challenging time. My teammates would come in, they couldn't say a word, because there's nothing they could say was silence, but just their support was really appreciated. And what I learned through that time was, when you have disappointment setbacks, failures, it's really important to grieve, to let your emotions out. Don't hide your emotions through those moments, because it would have been far too easy for me to just go, "Bugga, but I'm a positive guy, I'm going to move on to what's next." And kind of bullshit yourself a little bit, and I'll guarantee you it would come back and bit me in the ass at some stage in the future. So it's really important learning about dealing with resilience and these setbacks is to deal with your emotions. And then I realized, "Well, what is my purpose in life?" That's right, my first test match. All black, I want to be an all black great. Well, what is an all black great doing in a moment like this? He rehabs his injury better than anyone's rehabbed his injury before. He sets new goals. So I resigned a new contract with New Zealand Rugby Union for another four years to give myself another crack at one more World Cup. And then actually the team first, one of the values of the all blacks. What is a team man doing this situation? Well, it gets us asked out of his hotel room and actually goes, "Helps the team." And then I realized I had to just park my emotions. And with your emotions, you can either deal with it straight away, which I did for 24 hours. But then I knew I needed to flick the switch and move on. So it's okay, it's important to grieve. But there needs to be a time that you move on. Because me, sulking around the hotel room. tell for the next couple of weeks is that's not gonna, not gonna help anyone. So I always gave myself a 24 hour period to deal with my motions. That's why my wife knew after an injury, just to leave me alone for 24 hours. So I'm not a very nice person to be around. So I went out and I helped the team. We went to our second string number 10. He got injured. Went to our third string. He got injured till the legendary beaver, Steve Donald, four string who was whitebaiting at the time, got caught into the all blacks, played a World Cup final, kicked the goal, a credible story. But I felt like my duty was to help these guys making sure I've always put the team first. So there was some huge learnings for me. So when I look at this picture now, and the strength that that setback gave me, the determination that that gave me to push forward another four years to help walk towards my purpose, the strength that gave me to know that I can have these failures, disappointments, setbacks, and know that I can bounce back. And 12 months after that photo, I was named World Rugby Player of the Year. So to bounce back so quickly, it was a really proud moment whether I deserved it or not. It's probably debatable. I don't think I did, but it was, yeah, to kind of move on. So now I'm sitting here looking at that photo in a completely different way to that 24 hours after that. So that's why I did so much sadness, disappointment, so much trauma when I see that photo, but then to realise what happened four years later in 2015, to be involved in the rugby World Cup final, helped the team make history by being the first team to win back-to-back World Cups, be the first to all black side to win a World Cup outside of New Zealand. A lot of that was off the learnings that I got from that injury there. So all of a sudden, what I believed, things do happen for reason, that that was just part of the story. [APPLAUSE] No, it's been really interesting to sort of pick up on little moments throughout your career. And I think the great reminder for people in this room is that people often see someone like you and go, you know, you've taken all of these perfect moments in your life and you've managed to turn it into being this great dad, great husband, and someone that's found the career after rugby. But actually, we've sat in Spogum for the last 15 minutes or so. And actually, the biggest learnings came in the hard times. The biggest growth came after the setback. And it's all about the comeback after the setback. And I just think that I'd love to finish this conversation. We're just seeing where you are at now in your own head as a dad and as a husband and as a friend. And just to kind of wrap up, just how different life feels for you now. You no longer have the rigid life of an all black. But in so many ways, your life is probably rich and other than it's ever been before. Yeah, it is. And we had an interesting conversation backstage around Jesus sports people often go into a mindset, oh, the best days are behind me. You know, I'm never going to be able to match what I achieved on the sporting field. And the more you understand that the life is different now. There are new challenges. There are new ways to grow. And I had some incredible conversations with a friend of mine called Tim Brown. So he was a professional footballer. And then he transitioned out of sport. He was a captain of the all whites, the New Zealand soccer team. And then he went on to be a really successful businessman. He founded a shoe company called Allbirds, Balluid at Ridiculous, Mounts of Money, listed on the American Stock Exchange. He had real success. And what he taught me a really good lesson, and he said, look, in life, you're probably going to have maybe three peaks. And your sporting career, that's one peak. And what you achieved there is incredible. Now far too many people, when they finish, they expect to go into business or their next life at that same level. They're not humble enough to actually go backwards and learn new skills, humble yourself, and get back to the start line. And that's exactly how I felt when I finished playing. I was like, this is exciting, because I'm back on the start line. I feel like I was at the start of my rugby career, but I've got this wealth of knowledge and experience from my first peak. That I'm going backwards. I'm learning new skills, learning a lot about sort of me, as a person, learning all sorts of new things around sort of businesses and startups that I've been involved in. But that next peak, it's going to far exceed that the peak have been a rugby player, because I've got all this knowledge in behind me. It's this new type of education that I've learned from playing sport to close to 20 years. I'm really excited about this next chapter in my life. And through this transition, just having that flexibility to be there for my family's been important. I'm one of these people that when I commit to something, I'm all in. And that's how I was with my all-black career. And it's even hard me saying this that at times, I actually had to put my family second to the journey that I wanted to achieve. And now that I'm able to do school drop-offs, I'm coaching my second son, Fox's rugby team, and just seeing their development and their growth. And I'm even referring some of his games. I can assure you all the parents on the sideline just shout out, "It's amazing." He's eight. It's normally the chuping the referees. But in about eight years old in downcarters, coaching it's-- What have you been in the opposition with downcarts? The beauty is at that age. They don't know about my career. They're too young. So I rock up to school. And they're like, "Man, Fox, your dad is so cool." And he's thinking of why? And I'm like, "Oh, because he's a YouTuber." And my son's like, "Well, he is retired from rugby. And now we watch him on YouTube all his highlights. So he's a YouTuber. So all of a sudden, I'm a really cool dad, because they think I'm a YouTuber now that I'm not paying a living more because they can see me on YouTube." So-- That amazing career. And you've been reduced to an influencer. That's what happens. Listen, that has been such an interesting conversation. Thank you so much for opening up, for sharing so much with us, for writing the book that you've written. I'm so pleased that we were able to fill this theatre this evening that people were able just to spend an hour in your company to read the book as one thing, but to hear you talk about it in such an authentic and honest and humble way. And let me just be totally clear, OK? Sometimes you do these things, and you sit on stage, and someone tells you all of these lovely things. And you think, well, I don't believe what you say, because I see what you do. I saw your behaviour backstage with you. The conversations we've had before today, how you've been with the team, you are absolutely everything that you say you are. And that's actually a rare quality. So on behalf of everyone in the theatre and everyone on high performance, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING] Damien. Jay. It was a real pleasure to be in the Hackney Empire that evening speaking to Dan Carter. You know, it's one thing sitting and having a one-to-one conversation like this. It's something very different in a big theatre. And I'll be honest, I was really worried that maybe Dan wouldn't be free to be himself or talking in really honest way or that he might sort of play up to the crowd, if you like. But I almost think that we saw more from him because of the crowd in there. And he's a man who's spent his whole life having to deliver his best performances in front of an audience. And I think he did that. Yeah, that's a really good point. There was a moment during the interview where I sought the logging myself to tune out and instead tune into what was happening around us. You know, it's an immense privilege to have been sat in a room with 1,000 other people listening to a genuine game changer like Dan, talks so openly and candidly. So it was just a moment of gratitude for myself. And I think that was one of the things that I was learning almost by our most efforts from Dan and sometimes just being the moment, don't be thinking about the next question or thinking about what's just been said. Just to allow yourself to be in the moment is a really powerful lesson. And I think that was the one thing I didn't encourage anyone to take away from this is be where you are, not where you wish you were or where you've been previously. Just be in the moment you're in. And I love the idea that high performance isn't a period in your life. High performance is something that stays with you throughout. So he might not be a professional rugby player anymore. But he's still living his life in a high performance way. I mean, the fact that he wanted to, you know, the way he spoke to the team before we did the event, he wanted to know how's it going to run? Where's it going to be? What are the questions like? What's the venue like? How many people? What's the layout on the stage? He arrives early. He says hello to everybody. He eats a really healthy lunch. He then makes sure he comes and does a full rehearsal. He then hung around backstage afterwards, which he didn't need to do, by the way, to speak to all of the people who wanted to meet him. He then comes upstairs for a beer and he spoke a bit further. And he signed some rugby shirts for a local rugby club. Like the entire process of working with him was high performance. And Dan, from the minute we met him to the minute, he said goodbye and got any carbon-headed back off into central London was the epitome of high performance. Yeah, I think that's so really nice. cael enw i fy yn b y fleid am yr rhyw fest veith y pari heal thigh prof wedi fel adhyderediau hy following i siw wneud y gwyd loli i fel enfi car gyfereddi cyc i adhy جwingor fel i ffordd meddwl feleg III 'bun yn E điềugol dengan meil gyda i'n ll fan umig Ddo'n Fairbym. Upthrough Jamie blٍ ffith wneud yn ran. -- aromaidol rewn --wrdd wni hoi rhan al'neu cofynyn Terst le? >>Eleทarhyda 2437 Proומن. Until 2018 feляdu Last unleats Fnw c assistance 你们 yn f futi Grad gestor It was great fun actually we had these microphones shaked his rugby balls down was throwing them around inside the theatre people were asking questions. And here's a little taste of what went on because as well as questions from the audience we also had some special guests asking Dana question including this one from his dad Yes Dan why did you leave it to the last test as a international player playing for the organics to show us that you could kick with your right foot after all the practice we did and it came during those young ages to make sure you could kick with both feet. I know at DSA you've got a special reason why you left it to that really real-ass kick but I knew it was coming so it was a pretty great month. And that Q&A is available right now on the High Performance app if you would love to enjoy that exclusive content then all you need to do is either click the link in the description to this podcast or go to the app store and search for High Performance then use your unit code HP app that's HP, APP and you can hear our Q&A with Dankarta inside the Hackney Empire. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you soon. [mu]