E146 - Kay Makavel - Believe in Yourself

[Music] All right welcome to the grief dreams podcast. I'm your host Dr. Joshua Black and we have guest host today. Jay Black, how you doing today? Well, thank you. I'm glad you're able to come on again and it's the last one you came on was Mirabai Bush so it's good to have you back on. That's right. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. This is a special episode. It's gonna be great. Yeah, so we just released our 2019 recap episodes, but here's our first interview for 2020. So I'm super excited. So today we have on Kay MacAval who is a recording artist from the Bronx who wraps and sings. Her music is raw, real and lyrical. She speaks her truth through her music and speaks for those who don't have a voice. This last year she's done a lot. She's graduated Buffalo State College released. Her second mixtape had several music videos released and was featured on the show rhythm and flow and Netflix, which is a hip hop competition show judge by Ti, Cardi B and chance to rapper. During the competition, she also performed in front of Gatacus who was one of her brother's favorite rappers before he died when she was 13. So Kay MacAval, man 2019 was a busy year for you. I can't wait to see what 2020 holds. Thank you. You're excited for the new year too. I'm ready to get going and just, you know, for the full tour. Well, you must have big dreams and big goals after everything that sort of happened with you this year. Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. That was just a lot of validation of 2019 that I was just doing what I had to do. And I'm in the right lane and I'm just, you know, just really focusing and getting clear on my visions and what I want. So it was definitely a great experience. Yeah, it's so interesting trying to get that vision clear because I feel that there's always so many voices and so many people trying to pull you one way or another. But when you get that, when you get that vision, like there's something beautiful that happens within you that you can sort of drown out those voices. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're completely right. I felt like a lot of people get really like sidelines when it comes to like the fame and getting a deal and money and all those things could like really try to change you and try to make you something that you're not. And I think that that experience is just like I said, it really cleared my vision on who I am and how I want to be perceived. And it just made me like, it made me feel secure and what I was doing and you know, not chasing cloud, not going for the fame. It's not about money for me as a little deeper than that. It's about, you know, inspiring and motivated my community. And you know, it just it gave me it gave me like that little home that I needed to like, you know, just believe in myself. So definitely. Yeah, definitely fit of the vision, 2020 vision this year. Yeah, believing in yourself is such a big thing. I've had issues with that throughout even doing this topic or even starting the podcast. It's just like it's hard. It's hard to get that support you sometimes, you know, desire because everyone. You know, just looks for something else and you're like, no, but I feel that it's something different like in my heart and this. But yet everyone else is saying that you should you shouldn't go any further. Right. Yeah, I think that like kind of goes back to like even what I share today on my Instagram like having dignity and like, you know, life and and how things go with kind of strips you with that. Make sure for like not worthy of having something more than what you have. And I think that once you start believing in yourself, that is like the key. Like that's when everybody's going to, but nobody's going to. Nobody's going to take you serious unless you take yourself serious, you know, yeah, like I just agree with with all of that. I think I think it's a big deal if you have confidence in yourself. I think a lot of times, especially now. Confidence can really be mistaken for. Like, coqueness or arrogance, right? And the people know a lot of people don't want to seem like they're, they're full of themselves, right? Like people haven't had. They're very confused about what confidence versus thinking like having a superiority thing. People kind of, I don't know, they're more likely to stay small because they don't want people to be offended by their, their achievements or their, you know, beliefs, belief in themselves. So yeah, believing in yourself is, it takes lots of courage and takes lots of being, you know, sure. So I know so many people that I talk to struggle with that. So that's amazing that you said that those wins you had last year were really, you know, propel you to say I'm on the right track. Those are like, well, wings from the universe or whatever saying like you got this keep going in this, you know, direction that you're going like don't let out. And I think the balance between like having confidence and not being coming off as arrogant or cocky is just being humble about it as well, you know, and just being so still being empathetic to people not thinking that your story is any better. And I think that that kind of balances, you know, that confidence and then you can tell when somebody's confident and then when they just think that they're better than everybody like you know, so it's definitely a balance that needs to be there. Absolutely. So I have a question. I'm curious. I mentioned off air that I saw you on on the Netflix show rhythm and flow. Very interesting show right up my alley. Like I love just any kind of music stuff so that, you know, when I saw it in my suggested thing. I clicked on it and I watched it like right through and yeah, it's very interesting and I know that it's not only one picture, you know, I'm obviously smart enough to know that that's just kind of one side of the experience and and it's very curated and everything. But what was like your biggest teachable moment like what was your biggest take home thing from that experience like something that you really put in your pocket and you know you hold on to from like here on out. I put that people are going to people are going to try to tell your story for you. And it's very important for you to be solid in yourself and know you know what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do and standing on those boundaries, you know. That's one thing that I already took from the show and just being my being myself has never failed you thus far. And I just noticed that like when I get around crowds, I'll be quiet. I'll be real quiet before I get comfortable and like be able to feel like you know I could share myself. And I felt like that's where you know applying pressure comes in and I've read something not too long ago, but it said that applying pressure is when you come into a room and your and your presence is felt. And so just always make sure that that presence is so it doesn't need to be you know over the top or overly dramatic, but just make sure that you know people know who you are. And you know what your capable of and you know you carry yourself with that respect because you know that that type of respect goes a long way. So definitely I took that also just I got a more insight of how the industry works, you know, like how one thing that that was shown for like five seconds on the show, it took a seven hour to film. It's just crazy little things like that like you know and just really really really seeing what's going on in the background and just always being prepared always being prepared. That's one thing that I like as well you never know when opportunities are going to arise itself you never know when you know you might get nervous but you have to be able to always have that that that step back you know. So yeah it was just it was a great experience like it was just an amazing experience until happy I did it. Nice yeah I loved it loved yeah I just love the whole the whole style of it was amazing and like I was saying you know before I feel like you you really stood out to me like I was being authentic like I could just feel that authenticity I was like this girl is like she's real like I could just feel it. You know you don't always get that feeling so that that that that kind of stood out to me and you know kind of another question I have. And thank you. Yeah no worries yeah the truth is the truth and you got to recognize real recognize with. The other thing was you know I kind of have you know curiosity around like Cardi said that you know made a statement like how how can I but how can I make money off you like how can I sell you and I'm like like I understand what the motivations and stuff you know are in industry and that industry and in several other industries if not all of them. And so I know what the objective kind of is but how do you especially when you're a person that's really like founded in your boundaries and being authentic and telling your own story and all those things how do you find that kind of. How do you find a sweet spot in that in in somebody saying how can I make money off you when you know you're saying well money's not the objective is how can I be myself how can I be true to where I've been and where I'm going and where I'm from. And all the things that you value as a person because I mean you have all the money in the world but if you don't know who you are then who you are then you lose your business with that money. And I think that's just that's where just all the learning just came until that was just the beginning to start of it was just it was so much I just learned so much and I'm a person that I'm just I'm going to take I'm going to take it in I'm going to take it in for what it is and I don't read I'm not like a I don't react like. Hot, hot, all the time. You know, like I have to really try to get, and I understood what she was paying about that because like I said earlier, people come into this industry and that's what they're looking for. They're looking for fame and they're looking for money. And that, within that, even with that interaction and made it very clear to me that that's not what I want to do. That's not what I want. That's not my objective with coming in and making music. I make music. I mean, of course, I make music for people to feel inspired and feel motivated and you know, feel like they can relate to me. But ultimately, I make music as my outlet for my emotion. That's what I do for me. And for me, it's not only music. That's not the end of the ultimate life. I don't want to wrap for the rest of my life. And you know, like, I mean, I plan on writing. I plan on always writing. But that's not the only aspirations that I have in my life. I know that. I have a lot of great things in my future. And it just made me understand that everybody's objective is different. Everybody comes into the game with their own objectives. And as long as you know what that is before you, before they get their hands on you, you should be good. You know, and people are not going to change you. Yeah, people would try to change you. They would try. And that's one thing, even with like, that's why I will always say like if somebody offered it with the offer me a deal, it has to be a crazy as these. Like, I don't even feel like, people are not even in my head. I don't even. I'm not praying to God. Like God, give me a seal. Give me out of the rug. No, it's not because it's just I know how it goes. I know how it goes. I know that they they sign you. They show few. They they they dress you. They dress you up. They make you up. They cut your hair. They put you in school that you would never ever put on in your life. And all of a sudden, you don't know who you are anymore. And it doesn't matter how many mansions cause. It doesn't matter. You're not never going to be happy people. And you could and you could just tell certain people aren't happy, you know? And and I wouldn't change. I wouldn't I wouldn't give my there's no price on my happiness. There's no price on my piece of mine. And I don't know. I just I know that I got bigger things than just music. Yeah, fair enough. Go answer. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. No, long wind. It's kind of long winded. No, that's okay. Sometimes we have to do long winded. But like, yeah, very, very clear, very clear because I know like a lot of people struggle with that, you know, but it's basically what you're saying is like my piece of the, this isn't my whole pie. This is a piece and I understand what I expect to get out of it. It's a creative expression. I'm under I have complete understanding comprehension of what they want for me or what they want to get by way of me and, you know, this I'm okay with and this not so much and being really clear on that before you even get to that point. Right. And like one of the important. Yeah. And one of the brand like one of them, I have a team star made is my team and two of my mentors like have clothes and brands and one of them is called so not to say it. And that is like something that we just hold. Like that's just a part of our like motto if you want to put it in our like point, but program that's something that we stand by. We don't, our soul is not for sale. And and we just got more is more than just us is more than just this moment is more than just cars and how is more than just that right now, especially like in the state of how our community is is more than just that. So you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you have to say about that? Because I was just going to comment on you are the renegade when it comes to like Josh is really stubborn and really sure about like certain things that he's willing to do and stuff. And you've always had that kind of it's almost annoying sometimes, but you're very just stern in knowing what you want and like where you're going and what you're willing to do and not willing to do it. And so, you know, for some of the people like listening, how do you cultivate that kind of stuff as well? Yeah, it's very interesting because a lot of people think even just doing research like that's an easy thing, but no, people have your hands in that pocket, do right? Any organization, they there are people wanting you to be like them. And for me to do my masters and PhD in a topic like this, that no one really knew where to classify me. So they kept pulling me in different directions. And one of the things is you should do more research in other areas. And I said, no, this is the only area I care about. What you guys keep trying to study your stuff. No, obviously. Yeah. And then, you know, go ahead and talk. That's what I was going to say. And I had a great supervisor who allowed me to find my way and support me on that journey. So rather than trying to do 20 publications, studying attachment, everything under the sun, other than grief, I stuck with just studying the grief dreams and then doing the podcast, talking with people. Doing some real life hands-on work with people that because that is what matters the most. And that's why I went to school. But a lot of these people, they go to school and they just you're eyeing the job or they're eyeing the prestige. And that was never my intention. Yeah. And I could totally relate to that as well. That's kind of reminding me of when I switched over my major to sociology from communication. All like the teachers would tell me, like, don't switch it. Don't make a major. There's no money. It's going to be a social worker, life's going to suck, it's going to be horrible. And I'm like, you know what? Well, I didn't want to be a social worker. But I knew that that information was going to be beneficial to me, the things that you learn in sociology. And I was just like, you know what? I'm going to stick my course. I know that wherever I go, for my creativity, I know I'm going to be, money's going to come. Money's never, I'm not going to sit here and make decisions solely based on where the money is. You know, because when you're creative and you're passionate about something, the money's always going to follow. So, but definitely you have to just, you know, stick to your guns, stick to your intuition. That's just, that's something that I've always done my entire life, just stick it, you know, stick it through. You know what's best for you. Yeah, I agree. It takes courage. And it's really cultivating that courage to take those risks where you are really disappointing a lot of other people who love power. And you're saying, no, it's not, it's not my, it's not my game. Like I'm doing something else. And they don't understand you. And sometimes because of that, they criticize you or they talk bad about you. But it's like, usually you have to find your way. And that's I think what's helped me along the way is really focused on my inner, like loving who I am as a person. And the more I've done that, I was, I've been less easily pulled with other people. So it was a lot easier to walk a straight path when I started focusing on the root causes of maybe why I differed or went off path before. And that's why I'm just glad to sort of be where I am today. And I'm happy to say I've ever been. I'm not the richest. I've ever been. But don't worry, I'm gonna come Josh and go. Yeah, all right. Okay, that's it. I mean, 2020. I'm just glad he's maybe. Oh, it's funny. But I do want to say one thing. Congratulations on graduating. I know that's such an amazing thing. A lot of people don't understand what it takes to graduate. And I believe I saw in the post you were the first in your family to do it, right? Well, my brother graduated. I believe like two years ago he graduated from college as well. Oh, yeah, in a second. Oh, you're second. Hey, that's great. No, that's amazing. That's really good. It's really good. Yeah, it's amazing. Well, it's so amazing. It takes a lot of endurance. It takes a lot of endurance to get through it. And it taught me a lot. And I had to get a tutor and work extra hard. And I knew I wasn't getting the degree without it. So, you know, up to downs. Yeah, you had to retake the course. I remember that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for the reminder. And they said. Yeah, you know, that's -- it definitely does make you stronger and the visual though. Yeah, you're both there and you're major in sociology. So why did you switch to sociology? Yes. switch to social. So originally I worked in as a communications major, right? Like I was a communications major when I first came into Buffalo State. I can't do not they wanted us to take a literacy test to prove that we were like capable of still being in the major. And I was just like I'm a big activist like before anything before real big before anything. I'm an activist at heart and it just I was just like this is some boat like this is some boat like what you mean I got to take I'm already in the major you know which is it was that aspect also I had took a class. It was converged media writing I think it was and the teacher had told the an assignment that he gave us was right your own obituary right. And you know I'm from the Bronx people die around here real life so I spy spice the I spiced up my obituary like I made it a good great obituary. And he just read into my entire paper all my metaphors all my poetic devices just like so this is so like so then at the same time I was taking a sociology class for juvenile delinquency. And the statistics that I was learning in that class is just like it just blew my mind like it blew my mind like it was saying like if if you're if you're if you're coming from a single parent home your two or three times more likely if you're black and Hispanic your two or three times more likely. It was just so many odds and statistics that was stacked up against me that I just saw myself in all of these statistics and it was just like oh like sorry for my language but that that those just that knowledge it just opened up like it's part of a fire in that was a fire that you don't have a person high school. So after that I just I spoke to the teacher and I told him I got really interested in this like you know this is ultimately what I want to do I want to help I want to offer solutions to these problems because you're the problem that directly affect me right. So and all great they were just telling me like don't don't do it like don't switch the major don't switch the major and so I called my team from high school and this has been like one of my mentors like throughout everything. And she was just telling me she just always told me that like Kayla don't worry about the money like don't worry about the money you're going to be good to do what you're passionate about. She's like whatever you're passionate about is going to make you rich and she told me she always to the beginning she always told me that like Kayla you're going to be rich one day like the way your mind works on the bridge and so yeah just I just took that leap and I switched over and it was a lot of reading it was a lot of writing but I learned a lot. And that was lessons that I like the things that I was learning with things that I could directly come outside and I could see and that's something that I never experienced with education so yeah that's not for the level of sociology. Amazing that's amazing to make those connections between like it's like making your school mean something you know because like people are like classics major or English lit and it's like what drives that or whatever I don't know just like pick one or something like that. And it's just you know to have that relaxing I mean it's fine if you just want to pick a random thing I mean it's your life but to have to be invested in that like in your life and to see the impact of like how the social world is working and and where it's broken where it's broken and like you said like those things impact you there's the real things those it's not series in a book. It's you live every day it's things right every day and so it's you're way more invested in it and like yeah it's a drag in lots of reading and super demanding sometimes but you go through that in the end you feel more accomplished because you're like I put my drop in a bucket expanded my understanding of all these different factors or whatever so brilliant I love it. Yeah it really and that's one thing it just really pushes your thinking and just makes you it just pushes it pushes you to just articulate yourself on things like and I always say that that's one thing with social you know I love so much because before I learned of like I got into that major I knew that I felt oppressed like my entire high school like if you were to go and talk to them it was just I was the rebellious type I was out protesting I was just tweaking I know what it felt like to be oppressed I just didn't know. The word for it you know how they call it yeah how to like you know articulate myself and once I learned that I was just like oh yeah once I get that little fear and that doubt and all that out of me is no way I'm unstoppable because I know you know like this knowledge needs to get shared. Yeah no it's amazing to hear you speak because you have so much wisdom for you know I've talked a lot with a lot of people and not everyone has wisdom. And so like I'm really I'm curious to about sort of your road to get there I know you mentioned we mentioned the bio that you know your your brother died when you're such a young age and I know when that happens that can close someone up to the world and pardon them that you know and they just become something that you know they never expected but not something very beautiful which have you become and so I'm really curious on how you as as you sort of 13 year old how you process that in your life and did you have support because where you are now is remarkable from having that in as part of your life story. Yeah it it is really it is really crazy like even today I was going through my high school yearbook and it is like it's right a little tears to my eyes I'm like wow like I really came a long way and I think that one thing that just it just helped me was just writing but that's why I have a tattoo of a pen on my arm because like I even even right now like I found a little poetry book that I had around the time that I lost my brother and I was I was speaking those things I was saying like you know I feel that change I feel myself becoming this ugly person and I don't want to be that. And it was just that always like that conflict between myself like you know like I could I could you know I could live I could live life like you know like there's no tomorrow and you know get on my daughter marvel and just going to win but I don't know it did it didn't satisfy me but I think I think yeah I think I did have I did have a lot of support one thing that I think God is for the kind of mother that I have she she was never closed minded or she's not very like old school type of you know she's like a miracle I'm called American eyes and we always had an open relationship and I'm after that happens you know it got nasty in my house everybody we was all playing the blame game it was just it got really nasty but I think that that space to have those type of communication it it unified us three more and it just made us like you know push for each other and and we came to a point where is that we can't blame each other because we all we have you know and just I don't know it forces to really be adult really early and I mean only if you could imagine like a mother lose her first son and he was so young he was 19 my mother like checked out completely like it was almost like me and my other brother didn't have a parent and like Jesus it was his bad it was just bad she got it for her alcohol and it was bad and I had to tell her like you still have two other kids like you need to like get a grip you know and like a lot of people wouldn't dare tell their mother something like that but that that for her it triggered something and it will cover up you know and even though she felt what went through her of after that, but it kind of like, it brought us together. It was more like a I support right that day. Like we going through this together, nobody knows what it feels like to lose that person, you know, because I mean, granted, you know, another person could lose a brother and for you, but that person, like his name was Lewis. Louis González, nobody's going to know what that feels like to lose him. But my mom and my brother, like nobody's going to share that pain with me like that deep. And it just made me really appreciate the people that I had. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I brought a tear to my eye in the sense of just the struggle. And you can never explain the struggle as much as you, you know, you can say as many words you want, never fully explain what you went through. But I'm glad you had some tools to communicate your feelings. And as you said, like grief's a wild thing. And we don't know how to communicate our feelings. It can, you know, we rub people the wrong way and we have arguments and we, right, or even you internalize it. You internalize those those things that you don't say out loud. And then now you're, you're self-sabotaging yourself. You're becoming detrimental to yourself. And, um, and, oh, another thing that I wanted to share it, um, and what I was so like interested with this grief dreams podcast was because the crazy part about losing my brother was about, I say like, I want to say like two years prior to that happening. I had this real current dream. And like people, I don't like to see going in too much because, you know, people we think you're that crazy. No, I really pay attention to my dreams. Like I really pay attention. The metaphor is the, like, the, it's just, it was just really my dream just tells me a lot of stuff. And two years prior to me losing my brother, I kept having this real current dream with me in the yard of my middle school crying. And I didn't know when I was crying. But I was just crying. Didn't know why I was crying. And in the dream, his girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend, would come to me and they would always be her in this real current dream. And she's like, "Yo, I'm so sorry for your loss." And at that moment, I just knew that she was talking about my brother. And that would just be the real current dream that I would have. Like I remember having those dreams and then going and laying with him in his bed, like, scared, like, you know, like, oh, shit. Like, I just had, like, you know what? And just, I kept having it. And like, you know what I mean? Did you ever come in now? No. Three years, kept-- no, I never-- I never did. I never-- I didn't want to-- I didn't want to speak-- I didn't want to speak it out loud, because this didn't run out. Of course. I didn't even want to, like, jinx it. I didn't want to say I didn't want to think about it. Just, you know? And I had to think about it, like, you know, even now, that's kind of like whatever universe, whatever power, that's almost like somebody preparing for what was going to come. And it was crazy. It was crazy. Ain't got something else. I got to put this in your research. Yeah, man. I love the dream. You're not crazy, by the way. I'll let the world know. She's not crazy folks. She's perfectly saying and you know what's interesting. A lot of religions have these pre-cognitive dreams within it. So no, like I had some of my own pre-cognitive dreams, nothing to do with death, but one of my father, when he had a serious accident, I dreamt of that prior. And these things are amazing. I don't fully understand them. I'm not trying to fully understand them. I don't know if it's possible. But to sit with the mystery of that, as you said, right, it helped to prepare you in some way to acknowledge that possibility a couple years prior. And you know what people do think you're crazy too. Like I've had, you know, those pre-cognitive dreams, like a lot of them. And some of them have really influenced the biggest decisions in my life. Big decisions. Not just like, "Oh, what do I want to have so lunch?" But like, I want to move across the country. Or like big, big big shifts. And yes, you have that knowing that this is what I'm supposed to be doing, or this is really valid to me. And nobody can tell you anything different. I think when you have those moments, or just like, sometimes it's hindsight, you know, like you think about it afterwards. And you realize, like, "Oh, that really inspired me to just follow whatever it was through to the end." Yeah, dreams are crazy. I don't know if it's because I'm a pisc, because I heard we were really insolicist. But I just, I really do pay attention. I really do pay attention. Like, I could tell you, like, "Is this, yeah, dreams, but just pay attention to them." Mm-hmm. That was good. There's so much wisdom in dreams. I wouldn't be where I am without looking at my dreams. Tell you the truth. That was the thing. If I say one thing, say, if there was one thing that saved me, it was dreams. And then from there, other things came into play. But it was, there's a lot of truth in dreams. If people are open enough to look at it, and also have the time to try to understand it. So yeah, there's so much we could talk about that when it comes to dreams. But I want to move forward just then though, "Jays got to go in a little while." So if you had any dreams of your brother after, because if you had him before, you think you would have him after. Yeah, I had this one dream, like, a couple, I want to say, like, a couple months after everything happened. And it was so weird. It was so weird. It was like, it was an outside graduation, right? And it was so bright. It was such a bright-ass day that day. And he was sitting next to me and he jittery-ass shit. Like, he's just jitting. He's just like, taking his legs out, he's just happy. I'm just like, "Yo, what's up?" And after that, he just dashes. Like, he just starts running, going so. Starts running. And like, it brought a last, and I woke up crying, like, I woke up crying off that dream. I don't know, it's just crazy how things place up. That's what, nine years ago, that that dream happened. Like, my brother passed away in 2010. And I had that dream maybe 2011. And then, fast forward, 2020, I'm getting ready to go to graduation in May, you know? So, just things come, you know, full circle, I guess. What's your interpretation of the dream? Do you have any at all? No, I don't have any interpretation of that dream. Honestly, I don't know. I just, that's something that I just, that was a dream that I vividly remember. A couple months after. And it was just like, I really wanted to have a dream of him. And that was the first dream that came to me after that all happened. Right. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was just like, you know him. And you know, setting plays up this and me. And that's kind of how I like, even now, I kind of how I just cope with it. I've taken a different approach to how I see death. It's kind of like, all right. They're not here physically, but they're up there setting up plays. Like, they could have been so many times I could have died. Like, sort of like, also just real like a thousand ways to die. Like I could make, I could make a thousand ways to die. Feries on how many times I almost died and I have it. So it's like, I gotta have the people up there really blocking some shit. So in this way, that kind of, it kind of gives me comfort when you know things get tough. Yeah. And even now it's like, you know, everything is really going good. And you know, I got that opportunity randomly to be on the Netflix show and and that's not didn't even look for like they contacted me about it. And it's just like, you know, I know he's up there. I know he's up there setting those plays up for me. You know, like he's not here physically, but now he's doing more than what he probably could have this. Crazy and crazy. I think like, yeah, that you didn't reach out. Like those, those I, I always think of this quote or whatever when I start to feel like crazy. Like, you know, you control things. They're like, why is this happening quicker or I work so hard like, how do I make this go or whatever, but it's like nothing that's meant for you will pass you by. Like you can't divert what's coming to you. Like it's going to come to you the hell or high water. And there's nothing you could do to change it to divert it to make it go way to slow it down to speed it up. Nothing. So, and you can't fear your success. That's one thing too that I've done with that experience. Like before I went on that show, I was like, it was so weird. Like, I'm confident, but you know, everybody has their inner like battles and what they go through. And you know, I don't know. I'm just always like, it's just so weird. Like I was just like, nah, like not me. Like I was always scared of what I what my potential could be. And it's like after that is like, you cannot be, you cannot be scared to be a best self. Like you have to hold that to yourself to never say that potential. It's like you cannot fear it. Mm hmm. You know, and feel it. Okay. You just have to acknowledge it. Like, I write, yeah, I have a little, you know, I'm a little jittery, but embrace it. Don't try to run away from it. And that's just what I'm in that situation. I could have embraced it a little bit more with a mainly less nervous to embrace it. Then to try to be like, nah, nah, nah, I that's not really how I feel knowing every I'm nervous. Like, you know, like, you know, you got to know it. Like you have to know yourself. Well, you're going to have another opportunity anyway. So you'll be ready. Just be like, I'm good. I'll see, see this for everything that it is. It's rather than just right, you know, putting on a mask or putting it in the process. It's all about it. It's a process. It's not, it's not all about what's probably not all about product. It's not all about it's a process as well. You know, like, it's a kickoff. You know, it's going to be like, oh, looking what she's at now. And she started over here and they just passed the rubb. You know, it's going to be a crazy ass story. I know it's going to be a crazy story to tell. I'm just, you know, living that process and joining it made grateful for what it is right now. Because you know, it's definitely things are going to change. And you know, you got to be able to embrace that change. And then you'll be looking. And then I always think, then we look back and we'll think like, if we don't like fully ingest what's happening right now, there'll be a time like you said where we look back on on life or the simple things are like, you know, even even when I think like where I was a year ago, it's like, oh, I probably could have like celebrated that stage a little bit more or like had more celebrated that stage a little bit more. But, you know, you go through so much struggle. And when you're in that stage, it's like, oh, get me out of here. Like, it's the rust. So it's like you're, you know, you're wishing it forward. I mean, which is fine. They want to have progression, but at the same time, like you said, like in, you know, taste every, every bit of it because they will become a time where you miss that or you miss like different elements of that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So when I listen to it, though, I hear this theme because you know, like when you're, when you're in a state of mind, when you read a book, book, things come up come at you because you're looking for that in a certain way. Same thing with music. But one of the things that you really talked about was putting your realizing that you kept putting yourself second for others to go first or win. And you have a one line that says you took an L so that they could take a W or whatever. And that's what I'm actually going through. So it really stands out to me. Could you speak on that on basically finding a way to put yourself first and what that experience is like? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that, yeah, that's definitely a thing that I think about a lot. But just I think that I think that what I could say on that is I feel like we offer other people what we secretly want them to offer like to us. I mean, granted you want to support your people and you want to push them forward and you want to like brainstorm off their ideas and make them greater. But a little bit inside of you, you're doing it because you know, you want to them return as well. You know, like you want that support as well. You want people to be that excited for you as well. And you know, one thing that I learned is that you can't expect people to be you. Like you can't expect people to do what you would have done because they're not you. And just understanding that little aspect that I was given so much of myself to other people. And what I was giving is what I wanted in return. So it's kind of like why give it away when I could just give it to myself. And then now I can move in a way that that I'm not doing things because I expected that. You know, like I feel that the sort of in myself that I got what I want. Like whether you give it to me or whether you don't, then that's on you. It's your loss. If you don't, if you don't choose to, you know, get with it. But like, I don't know. I think it's just, I think it's just about putting a lot of the efforts into your own stuff first. You can't like expect people to want to build and see your, people are not going to be able to see your vision until it's out. And that's one thing I just learned. Like you have to put yourself first. If you don't, if you don't put yourself first, you're going to be spending your whole life looking for love in different places and looking for companionship in different places. And you know, like fulfilling those insecurities that you have within yourself. And in a way, it's kind of like you're running away from those flaws in you. And just being, I feel like it's just, it's just about being honest. Like, you know, being honest and being truthful and learning from the encounters that you have. And that's what people go through and concess with people. And they don't really learn from those situations. And they keep on making those same mistakes when they meet new people. And one another thing that I learned too is like, like I said, you can't expect people's loyalty to be how yours is. You can't just because you could party with somebody doesn't yet. You could do business with them just because we do business together. Doesn't mean that we can study and get good grades together. And you know, like, there's different people with different things. You can't make people be who you want them to be. And that, you know what, people about crazy trying to control those type of things. I'm like, big, good girl. I'm like, disarmament, right? It's like, like understanding like a square block doesn't fit in a circle peg like you said. Like if you're business, then you're business and you're, you know, or I might not be able to party with you or like share the deepest parts of myself with you or you might not be a good, I don't know. I'm not going to be a business partner, a friend or yoga partner, you know, right? Like whatever that looks like, but people want to make other people all the things when they're not supposed to be all the things. And they're trying to, you know, make them fit into this thing. And it's like, be real with yourself about what people can offer you or what they can help you build. And I think that's just like knowing your strengths and knowing your limitations. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to go somewhere and I'm not going to go to NASA and say, let me build it, you know, a jet for you or like a spaceship for you. I don't know anything about that. I don't have any of those skills. It's like just knowing where you fit, right? And it's something else that I know I can deliver. And so it's like being that way with yourself and being that way with the people that you engage with at work or play or whatever that looks like. Very smart. You also have to, yeah, you got to protect your energy and you got to just like, you have to just, you got to move is this for you have to just, I feel like as you get older, you got to move a little different. You have to know, you know, there's a time and a place for everything and and people will take advantage of you. Like, people will take advantage of you. And like, that's one thing that I learned in 2019, like my aunt told me, she's like, I mean, you could be kind, but you don't have to be nice to people. Like, people should earn your niceness. And when she said that, which is like, you know what you write, like, you could be kind, but to be nice, kind of nice is two different things. Nice, you're overextending yourself. If you're being nice, you know, be kind, of course, be kind, be humble, be, you know, understanding of people, but you need to know who to be nice with. You need to know who to share your heart with. Not everybody has the same heart as you. You know, when just another thing that you can't, yeah. And I really like learned a lot about talk to Sierra about like feeling like you owe people because like I, I've just my whole life has felt like I owed people time and energy and all kinds of stuff. And I think expense of my own like well-being or like, you know, bank account or whatever that looks like. And you just give and give and give. And like the, our, the return on investment is so pissed poor that by the end of it, you're just like, oh, I like spent so much stuff, so much energy. Right. Because I feel like I owe people. And then when that person, when you expect from that person and that person doesn't go through like that, plenty of times, like I would go out of my way, like I would go out of my way. Yo, I got you don't worry about it. I got you. I got you. And then once pay the access, yo, can you be in the video for me? Disappearance. And it's just like, yo, I held it. I held it down. I found it, you know, but like you don't get it in return. And it's just like, you know, now, okay. Now I know that I have to move a little different with that one person. Now I have to move on the smooth surface. Now I'm not going to overexend myself because I know you would have been doing things. You know, and it's not like I'm changing the way that I love. That's one thing that I never wanted to. I never wanted to get hurt. Yeah. But I would change the person that I love instead of changing how I love, you know? And yeah, just about, you know, protecting yourself, knowing yourself, loving yourself, and just having those boundaries to like, you know, like, you got to love yourself enough to be like, now you cannot fuck with me. Like, you don't play with me. You know, like love yourself that much to set that respect to that boundary. And I feel like, you know, that's something that we don't get taught. We don't know. Nobody ever stops and teaches us that. And it's like, if you don't, if you don't reflect on those past, those past experiences, you'll never get those lessons. And then, you know, you live a life that's just like, not, you know, your best. And a very important insight for women in relationships. And just, you know, just because of like where we're sitting in the social world. And I mean, like, it's crazy to think about, but like, you know, where we've even come in the last 100 years, like, it's crazy. So I think just to keep up with that same momentum in saying like, there's more barriers. Like, yeah, there's more barriers if you're a minority. Like, that's some other stuff that, you know, I'll never be able to comprehend because I'm, I'm not a minority, but like, and I don't ever pretend to comprehend all those nuances. Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even dare. But being a woman, like, you have different kind of challenges as well in like how you give up your time and how you set those boundaries. And it's like, and people don't like, well, men, you know, for the most part, don't really like, you know, like really confident, strong, strong, willed women. Like, that can be hard to swallow sometimes too. So like in my eyes, it's even more important to say, okay, this is how, this is how we're going to have this relationship. And these are the boundaries I have. And this is what I'm willing to bend. And then on some other stuff, like, not so much, right? And being like really firm and confident in that. It's so important. And it sets it like a really good example for the other people. And you're like, they're watching you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really, I'm really big in that, like, in what you just spoke about right now, because I always said that, like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I feel like as I'm getting older, I'm learning that I, I want to like, I want to do things because I want to do it. Like, you know, I don't, I don't never want to feel, I feel like a lot of females, we feel like, because, you know, somebody likes you, we need to like them. And it's not, you don't have to be that, you know, just because somebody likes you doesn't mean you need to like them. Like, it's not, you know, and it's just, it's just becoming, becoming more of you and, and being unapologetic about it, you know, because like a real man is going to appreciate that. A real like, so for where man is going to appreciate that. Now, an insecure man is going to want his woman to not be that confident, you know? And that's why I'm like, I'm just like, you know what, I wait, like, I wait. I know that for the kind of person that I am, it's not going to be a, it can't be a weak person. Like, it has to be a strong minded person who's going to be able to like, really, you know, put these songs that is deeper than just the, is deeper than just you know physical female and male like it's deeper than that now we're coming to a point where you know women we don't gotta take both you know more and that's one thing that I say like all the time like you know shout out to my grandmother and my mom but they dealt with that bullshit so I don't have to you know my grandmother had to stay in a marriage because that was just how society was set up she was looked down if you didn't you know but now things are different and she's that's what I don't have to do it but it's like I have a choice you know and like I feel like being a woman we need to really understand how much power there is and being a woman and so real and like I think this is the other day but it's crazy it's crazy because it's so true it's so true and you know this is the way that me and Josh don't have the time like you always telling me like you guys don't understand like how like the power that's actually there like yeah it's different if you are different the game changer realizing you actually have it is and I only say I'm like listen if every woman this and we all woke up and we decided listen this is what we're gonna do we're only gonna talk to man and pursue man who are in the library reading a book I guarantee you every scam drug dealer anybody is gonna be in the library with the book in their hands speaking to see where the female's at because it's just everything that men do is so it's so like surrounded around how women are gonna perceive them and I'm I'm ready to see men as well come out of that you know and pursue their own dreams and passions and and then now they can meet us at this equal level you know everybody I feel like I feel like everybody has this this they can control people can control every aspect of their lives even though they can they just choose not to so they say okay I'm gonna control the hell out of my relationship and it's just like nah I don't I don't want to be controlled I don't want to be you know putting a box and no I'm not I think they were humans we're not objects you know it's not entertainment you know it's a partner that you're ultimately you know looking into hmm so it was just yeah it's just about I feel like right now is definitely and me being in my 20s is just like I need to like learn me love me first talk to show somebody else how to love me you know if you don't treat yourself with love how can you act somebody so love you like you get me but we're gonna get there we're gonna get there I got some kids we're gonna get there I like these type of conversations the wisdom you're very you're very optimistic Josh are you yeah yeah yeah keep talking I feel like I'm listening to a podcast that I want to subscribe to no those are important things and I think to just letting the conversation you know like you talk about what needs to be talked about you know talked about you don't know who who is listening and who needs that conversation right now where they are in the where they are in the world you know in the mean it and where they're at in like their mental space and so yeah you just have a other and that's those are very important insights those are very yeah wise insights the confidence that you you show just within the conversation so far it's amazing the wisdom it's there and I want to get people sort of check out your Instagram because I really fell in love with you really through that I love seeing you on sort of the TV whatever but chatting with you and then really like watching your live videos I've never done it myself but watching yours you get to really see who someone is and I fell in love with who you are as an individual you're so funny charismatic but you just have this wisdom about you so I want people to really check that out came back of value you see that on Instagram or Facebook Instagram to get the live stories but how did you I want one thing is I'm starting to do videos myself okay how long before it gets comfortable how long what like videos like videos like like videos like recording the podcast to my life no just of your life right so I just started to have never really went that way but I see you doing it and then Jade started doing it and I'm like man like I should probably be doing it but I feel there is a resistance there so I'm now pushing forward because anytime I see a resistance I need to go forward right yeah yeah and so you're still natural at it so when I'm doing it I like there's like I probably do like four or five takes because it takes me so long to feel comfortable looking and talking to myself knowing other people are listening it's easier to do on a podcast but once they once you see yourself the different game yeah definitely a different game I think honestly I think one thing that really helped me is just like how you started like you feel that resistance just go forward with it one thing that got me like really comfortable with being in front of cameras was my organization excuse me on Buffalo on State Campus so since we had that television station we were like we were the ones in front of the camera we were the ones behind the camera we were the ones editing like we were just like the jack of all trades in that club and just doing little things like that just doing it literally like one of my members would have an idea for instance like we had like this leverage breakdown they're like hey you want to do a shirt let's go let's do it like and just putting your stuff once once I say I have to like the third the third full time like is the jitters are gonna get out you know and even if you gotta be a little silly like being silly makes editing funnier so you know just like being yourself don't think about I always say that what other people think about you is none of your business none of your business is gonna be a concern mind your business and just you know focus on getting the best thing out like just just do it that's what I could just say like just do it don't worry about you know what people are commenting I mean of course you're gonna be good comments bad comments bad comments block them good comments you know engage with them the people make it easier to like once you see people reacting to it and liking it and just you know given that validation like it'll just get a little smoother and you know like you start trusting yourself and you know trusting the way that you do things so just I'd say just trust yourself and just do the damn thing Josh just all right nice that's a confidence boost yeah it's just I think I try something new there's always there's a reason why I haven't done it you know like until you gotta push and you're right I think as I continue to do it and remind myself I need to do it they don't get easier and then be like man I can't wait to do it it's funny how that works you know like this something and then it turns to be like a passion right and then it's like oh I like the Russia like it just embrace it like just embrace it is and then with the way that social media is going now is like the more visuals that you can put it you know people's like attention is man just so short these days so it's like yeah that's cool I love I love it haven't done a question answer yet they'll be okay later on but I love how you do it because say like so many people have very interesting questions for you and you're so open on us and I think it makes your platform so beautiful is that you are giving people a window into who you truly are behind the sort of the what people think you are you're saying no this is who I am and then they can look at your music a little differently so it's it's absolutely yeah and thank you so much that's one thing I never want to like try to put myself in a box I feel like people have this this idea of what a female rapper is and it's just like I don't I don't do boxes I don't let me just let me just build my lane let me be me and you know I love me I love me and it's not then you know I'm a just be me because then you love me I'm like I'll write a just stay true to myself you know and that way it'll always be it'll always be real it'll always be genuine it'll always just be good you know vibes into the universe what you say with the videos the best way to feel confident in your video is to just be yourself don't try to do anything for anyone else this is for you and you should be laughing or proud of yourself by the end of that video doesn't matter what anyone else thinks oh I think it's good it's good advice good for us for everyone's trying to push the boundaries on who they are and what they can be right and be creative tool be creative like think out the box don't ever think all that's a stupid idea like because what you think is stupid is this is gonna be an amazing thing like you know just try it if you fail then if you try you know at least you can't say like they might even try right oh yeah that's right you gotta take risks and I've learned to love risk taking calculated risks based on you know I'm so learning like I'm just gonna take a risk it okay let go all right so one of our last questions we like to ask or guess is that if they could have a dream of someone who has died tonight what dream what what would that dream look like to you so if you could dream of your brother Lewis what would that dream look like oh I could have a dream tonight damn I don't know I think I think I'd like like a just a comforting dream just a good a good dream I don't want it to be sad or anything like that just you know like just happy just whether it be like a flashback when we was little or you know him some joke and maybe I an audience and I hit for for me something you know like just something that it just you know be like oh what the hell like you know just wake up I just want to wake up and I want to that's just if I could have a dream I want a dream like that or you know yeah no I'm glad you want a positive dream that says something about you yeah yeah and that's cool I like too the either the memory that maybe you may not remember which is kind of cool like a forgotten memory or the or seeing him on stage before him so he did he do a lot of performing is that where you got maybe some of your your love for it no he um he sung like we could I come by my family could sing I don't know what the hell God bless our vocal cords but he's he's a good singer he could always sing and he was always just very animated very just funny always doing something always cracking jokes like that was just he was that person that a cut that he would just you know like here this is cut your ass like you know it just always be in like you he was always just fun always a good-ass time for him well I gotta say this was a good-ass time I had with you so maybe it's genetic I don't know right right right runs in the blood that's funny so thank you so much for coming on it was it's such a pleasure to be able to talk to you after seeing you so much I appreciate you guys so much I mean it's so comfortable and beautifully I loved it hey that's uh it means a lot to us because we we really designed the podcast just to be like a real nice plot for people to share their life in a non-judgmental way and I know in this world even our friends they judge us all the time and family and so it's hard to get that space so I'm glad you felt comfortable here to talk about some real stuff and I know our listeners would also hopefully have gained something from this that they never would have got from listening to anyone else right so it's definitely a great platform yeah doing the dance thing at greasewaring spotting yeah that was the perfect exit to heaven but I like it that was the perfect exit right there all right so as we wrap up where can people find your mix tape uh the music the minimics it reloaded out everywhere right now on Spotify app rules title youtube I have a lot of really good songs on soundcloud the first minimics tape is on soundcloud yeah and there'll be no music coming out real school I'm working on a on a Valentine's Day piece so let's go with to that and yeah we're gonna keep it going following on instagram came back about and go better for more beautiful and then to spell that it's k-a-y-m-a-k-a-b-e-l yeah it's uh e-l yes yeah so uh you heard him all right everyone so as uh we wrap this up please check out our platform grief dreams.j if you want more information on the topic also we have a facebook group if you want to come in and share your dreams now you can or just listen to other people's dreams so that's the creep dreams facebook group we're on twitter and instagram act creep dreams with love and gratitude from us to you [Music] I have enjoyed this conversation in english I have questions I have introduced myself you have introduced yourself this is a very good conversation