E13: Cyberbullying and Cancel Culture feat. Kolkata Girl Up

This is strictly a Nokia on podcast. Listener discretion advised. [MUSIC] Thanks for coming guys. Thank you for successfully stressed. [FOREIGN] So I just handed over to DeepKeyes, Tanisha and Deachna, basically what they do is, this is their podcast successfully stressed, which we most definitely understand, which P.L. origin is. And yeah, over to you guys. Thank you so much, Viraaj. So if it's a first time listening to us, we are a Gen Z lifestyle podcast. We talk about everything which Gen Z is stressed about. So today we sort of got our friends, Golap Kolkata, and they've been doing a lot of great stuff on the Instagram page, which I'll put in the link later on. And they've been trying to create awareness about feminism, women empowerment, all of that. And in a certain way through their own experiences, they've had their share of struggle in terms of getting cancelled, cyber bullying and all of that. And I think we always talk about women's safety in terms of real life safety, right, rapes, sexual assault, something which happens physically. But there's not a lot of awareness about how to be safe online, and how the internet is actually a very unsafe place for women. And even people of the non-binary category, or LGBTQI plus whatever. So first of all, welcome Golap Kolkata, girl up. And yeah, thank you so much for joining in. Please introduce yourselves and tell us about what you guys do. So much, Venitya and Desna, for having us over. So I first give you a brief description of what exactly is the girl of campaign. The girl of campaign is an initiative undertaken by the United Nations Foundation. Very believe that when girls write, we all write. And we focus on working towards equity, more than just equality. Kolkata, girl up is one such film under the girl of campaign, where we aim to motivate women and power women to talk about the social issue going on and to the social stigma and stereotypes that have been going on for ages now. So we aim to create a positive space and bring about a positive change in the society. And we have our members here with us. And Kimaya is our youngest member. She's from In the world. And she's just in class now. Yet I think you know she's way more mature for her age. And yeah, so we are looking forward to this question. Thank you so much. Devanandhi Kimaya, Tener Sri Anishwarya. If you want to just say anything, please go ahead. Hi, my name is Devanandini. I am an intersectional feminist and I'm also clear. So I have had my set tree of people trying to cancel me or you know just say, "See, it means stuff just so that I would shut up, but that's not happened yet." And I hopefully won't let that happen also. And my pronounce her, she and they. Thank you. You're recording for a podcast that's definitely not happening anytime soon. It's really hopefully people learn from this podcast and they stop doing all of this. Yeah, I think that's really all aimed for. Thank you so much. Kimaya, what about you? Hi, everyone. I'm Kimaya. I'm 13 years old. I'm a ninth grade. I am a part of the LGBTQI+ community. I'm my parameter she/her. And yeah, I've received a lot of backlash on social media, but I'm not backing out of it. Thank you so much, Tanushri. Hi, this is Tanushri and I'm 19. My pronounce her, she and her. And it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much and last but not the least, Anisha. Go ahead. Hi, this is Anisha. I would just love data and engineers' introduction so much. I'm Anisha, 19 years old. Thank you so much. And one thing I really loved about everyone's introduction is that we've had our share of backlash, but we're not going to back down. And I really love that phrase. So I remember watching some of your reels, which are really incredible. Please do check out Kolkata Girl Ups Instagram page. And I saw a lot of my Instagram reels and certain hateful comments below it. And as someone who's also making a podcast, I know that getting negativity feels bad when you get negative criticism, but it even feels worse when people attack things about you like your gender and things which obviously you shouldn't be ashamed of or you shouldn't be bullied for. What are your experiences of what happened with you guys when you're posting reels or making content for Instagram? And how did that pan out? What went through your mind when that happened? Yeah, so we were really excited when we were posting our first reels on something about feminism. And it's sort of blue of like we haven't expected so many views. We got around 12k views in two, three days or something. But also, there's a difference between constructive criticism and just throwing hate on people for absolute blue good reason. And we received the second one. So, there were people with their fake accounts or mean pages continuously commenting that, you know, you should go watch your decision or go back to the kitchen because there is where that is where women belong. And did not stop in the comments. They also started DMing the user, the content creators personally. And there is this one content creator, one shikar. She's our content head for Polkata Girl Ups. And someone messaged her that, you know, you've put on so much of weight, you don't even deserve to be on Instagram, you should be thrown out of it or something like that. So, that court is thinking that, is this what it has come to? Like people are so jobless that they might not be interested in you for no good reason because they have the time to do so. And it's not like we were talking about something wrong that should have been corrected or something, we were talking about feminism. And we were talking about feminism, we were talking about feminism. And so, we were talking about feminism. it's their intention is their motor. Otherwise there are some random comments and all. those who are doing it for Pandas are obviously, you know, I think that's the line that we draw if they are continuously doing this again, again, so that would be considered as bullying I guess. I would terminate as harassment because let me honest in this world, whatever year it may be, we are still seeing as commodities, especially when you are from a minority, which we are, let's face it, women are minorities, queer people are minorities and minorities speak up, it really, it shows a lot of people, I want to say anything but yeah, that. So I think it would be harassing because they don't stop, there's a difference between just doing it for Pand, it is bad, it is as bad as it gets but there's a difference and they don't know where to draw the line. After a point, we don't know if we are going to get rape threats or we are going to get any kind of threats and that is, yes, it, at this point of time, I think both hyperbullying and harassment, they have a very fine line and you never really know when you are crossing it, you should be very careful because nobody is doing something to you, you shouldn't do anything back to them just to get under their skin, you shouldn't do it out of spite. If you are out there, you are educating people or spreading awareness, should not be receiving the hate that we receive and the harassment to me. I think I agree with you, that these two things go hand in hand right now because now I will, but I'm also unsure that most of us here are talking about these things, we have received unsolicited pictures from men in our deans from random men and obviously it does get to us, I mean you can be as strong as you want but in the middle of the night you receive such pictures from absolute strangers. So you feel like you know you are actually safe out there, you can have private accounts or you can have public accounts but then also you know there is no line that these people draw as to what harassment is and what hate is. So I agree with Didan Anthony that cyberbullying and cyber harassment go hand in hand right now. And you know the main troubling list online bullying and harassment of whatever you call it is that the hate is identity is anonymous, you are an incognito mode. So you don't think before you write or think before you speak because both matching that can harm you. And it's really a great over here, like it's really like it's very easy to say something and point fingers was very difficult to be on the receiving side and like with this amount of anxiety you have before uploading something and putting your face on a public platform. It's a lot and then you get that kind of comments but also nothing another talk to talk about over here is cancel culture right. I personally seen like with celebrities that there are very different standards for men getting canceled and women getting canceled. Whether he instances where he fell or you would get canceled for no reason and like what exactly was that like. I think not us personally like I didn't ever feel that I would be canceled for putting something out there but I've seen celebrity go through this like I remember when Suara Bhaskar had posted a tweet in the support of the Kathwa gang rape and everyone started this hashtag boycott Suara Bhaskar or that she is defaming Hindus or she is an anti-Nazis which has become such a form in term nowadays and people use it without thinking anything because they don't know what does it actually mean. And you know this is a didn't stop right. So Suara Bhaskar was I think the randomness of Amazon or she was promoting something of Amazon and people started boycotting Amazon to be started the hashtag of boycott of Amazon. If Amazon does not take down Farah Bhaskar's tweet. So I feel that what have we come to as a society that just for supporting a rape case which should have been done and so this we are boycotting an actress and you know there are comments like Suara Bhaskar isn't too pretty to be a boycott actress so she indulges in such controversies to gain attention. So I also you know really I feel like go ahead definitely. You will have a time. Recently Mirabai Chandu won a medal at the Olympics and I know that everyone is like oh my god you know suddenly everyone is talking about oh that you know it's so proud that a woman won a medal for India and blah blah blah and I don't want to undermine her achievement but I saw one tweet which really hit me that you know as a person from the northeast that when she would talk about let's see if she tomorrow she goes and talks about the Armed Forces Special Powers Act which is basically giving a lot of powers to the army to shoot wherever to shoot whenever they want like without a war and they can shoot whoever they want and that's also the reason why there's so many protests happening in the northeast and they've often been ignored because the northeast part of India does not get that kind of media attention and they were like you know if now she want a medal and let's say if she uses that platform of hers that social status that she has earned right now to talk about that okay you know what we should remove that act or we should you know do something for the northeast states and all of the conflicts which are happening over there people know certainly cancer and be like you know you know you know you know you know that is always with women and not always with men like if you see a man talking about something like that you wouldn't be like oh he's using his platform for a good cause but you don't see that with an athlete who now has one something and is now getting that kind of attention that if she uses her platform for something it would be you know on the verge of cancelling her so it's also like a risk for people so like I think Swara Bhaskar one of a few people who is now using a platform to talk about something and she's getting cancelled for it so I mean you're take on that completely agree with you honestly because men don't get cancelled just because of that like if you speak up it's fine it's okay you're allowed to speak up but with that quote and quote not allowed hence that's why there's this entire cancel culture thing coming up because cancel culture is all about boycotting or just you know someone but when it should really be about educating like if something is somebody is doing something wrong you should tell them that they are going wrong not just boycotting them for without any reason and if you have to boycotting them do it then probably you just told them that they are doing this wrong and they still continue doing it but cancelling someone just for the sake of it because she's using her platform to raise awareness for something which needs that is very wrong and I feel like if you're a woman or if you're a queer person or anybody from the minority community like even if it's a Dalit cast there's a huge issue like role in our society so if you're from the Dalit or the Bahujan community you get cancelled just because you're speaking up about things which we have a limited experience about so cancel culture is very toxic. I think I completely agree with Degna Nguyen this that the cancel culture should be replaced with a calling culture what we call it because they're giving the person a second chance to actually learn and improve themselves so just because you did something wrong on the internet that doesn't mean that you can't take it back and you know apologize for it because we need to understand that at the end of the day we're all humans and we're bound to make mistakes and most of the times when females, celebrities and influencers get cancelled it's not even because for a you know valid reason like there have been many incidences for example Karina Kapoor getting cancelled or you know the Harsat's getting trending because she charged a whopping you know 12 crores for a movie but then a male celebrity charges hundreds of crores for movie then there's no issue about it so obviously there's this gender discrimination that has been valid you know throughout the world there's no denying that. Not just that like we all know about sis hate like if you're a woman and you're sis you get hate now imagine the flight of trans women like there's a influencer she's a doctor she's a trans woman and name is Trinetra so every time she talks about her transition or every time she talks about what are the things she hates about sis hates and the way they discriminate and exploit trans people like she gets such mean and nasty comments she's like she gets calm is like cancelled or then all these and like shani or Thakkar whatever all of this is not shite I mean the end of the day we are all human we come like the same place and we like so regardless our regardless our gender or what we were like born with so I really don't understand why there is all of this decision and hate because at the end of the day there are all the human with the same flesh and blood. Okay Maya Tanushya Nishima Pithya something. Yeah so film it is not like who we are so most of the cases it's like a hero film so you have to take one step back at some places you're not born for your achievements as soon as you get out to do that you're not born for your achievements where is there a judge you because where are you coming from if you're a Dalit where you want to get that seat because you belong to that community you belong to that religion where you're not allowed you. So this is something that is going to happen and I don't know how do I say this you know I don't know. Okay so like talking about like I mean we talked a lot about cyberbullying online harassment and all of these instances but obviously there has to be an end to it right where as a generation I think one of the good things about Gen Z in general is that we are a generation which wants to improve and change the status quo. So what exactly do you think is a measure you would want people to take in order to curb this because you know I know people talk about a child. know we can make a law for something or rules but like if you look at suppose a transgender people's act right which came out in 2019 that was a proper legislation giving legal status to transgender people we have so many laws for you know women you know rape laws and all of that but that doesn't mean you know rapes not there yeah the stigma around transgender people has completely eroded and I mean I know a lot of people who will be like no but you have laws to curb this harassment but you cannot get rid of that mindset which people have cultivated for literally decades and centuries right so how can you as like call cat a girl up or like even as random girls on the internet how would you want people to sort of curb this and find a solution to women being targeted online and have make a safe place on the internet so Tanisha was saying that you're mistaken for that if you know like you said that there has to be an end to it but currently as of this moment there isn't an end to it and you know we're living in this bubble that this that there is a line that is being drawn or something but the people who are actually doing this are forgotten all limits and boundaries for them it's like because they are behind anonymous fake accounts so there's no end to it as of now but as the call cat a girl up we end to you know make people aware about such things like doing this right today would also be a part of it because you know I think see 50 people listening so at least I think we could leave a mark right here because we're actually speaking up about it and also if you heard about Mr. Raksit Tundin so he's an inspector for cyberbullying so one of my friends actually went to something like this when a guy online was how harassing her so she filed a complaint with the cyberbullying inspector and a little accident was taken but then they ended up saying that till there's no unity involved they cannot go ahead with it but still I think in some cases cyberbullying inspector do help so you know it's like we cannot let it go we cannot start ourselves down that okay it or hotha raera you know what can we do I think it's very important to talk to our friends talk to our peers better than it's like even in the case of boys local doing that social media has the power to cancer people but it also has the power to bring about to change that is our strongest point that we all share the stories we all said the awareness about the boys occurring within this panopathy one or two days that the police inspector had to take some action they are bound to and it you know so social media is available for this too so I think we just need to know how to use it for the right means and as the Kolkata girl of team they also aim to make reads make post-reading of the N.S. like they've not really working on creating posts about sexual education and about trans people spreading or education about the transgender people because there are many people who don't know about it right so there are many people who don't know the correct usage of canons or the late fun of people who use they or them because they think that it's not grammatically correct so they've not really working on post to actually educate them in this sense I think this is how we in to spread awareness about it and bring about a positive change but absolutely agree that but I would also like to add that first of all yes there are laws think about it every law that is there it has loopholes or it is not correctly formed like for the real laws or even that transgender law okay so they there are a lot of loopholes and it never works out because first there are loopholes in second it is never implemented because as a community we are just seen as people don't even need that we are just seen as people who who can die or live and others wouldn't care they wouldn't bat their eyes for one second also so I think that the only way we can change that is through mindset and as right now we are trying to change the mindset but I think that it all begins from your primary socialization that is it begins with your parents it begins from when you're a little child and you're absorbing all of these things so of course we can't help that right now but what we can do is spread awareness about it right now so that other people go and talk about it with their parents so that their parents talk to other parents and they spread awareness more than fear that has to start with your parents because from your parents you get the most amount of knowledge there is and let's face it our parents and everybody around us we are all ingrained with this patriarchy as an institution it just lives inside us and even if we refer to ourselves as a feminist there is a lot of misogyny ingrained and as there's a lot of patriarchal traits that is ingrained in us which we need to unlearn and that unlearning can only happen through awareness and also from a very primate you need to know that okay hating on someone is not right cancelling someone just because there's a distance of opinion is not right difference should be celebrated it should not be hated on one thing to what they've said that obviously it has to start from our parents and you know we should do style rates on correcting our friends like even if you think that your friends with Jaddu you are trying to educate you unnecessarily like but I do it's very important that you do not style rates on doing that you should have to guts to actually correct them and call them out if they're doing something wrong also like they've been under me talked about unlearning so unlearning is the first step absolutely and the next step which Kolkata girl up is trying to focus on would be relearning because once you unlearn you also have to you know it's extremely important to relearn what is right and what is wrong and then I think they'll be able to draw the line between these two things you know so talking about like you said misogyny right like even as girls like so I personally at a point of time I feel like my beliefs are very misogynistic and very sexist and I've had to you know unlearn so many things have you guys experienced hate from women who may have you know have like been brainwashed through patriarchy and do not realize that because I mean also I've met girls who are like that who have you know you know been internalized misogynist and have not unlearned all those beliefs because you I feel every girl that grows up as a misogynist because that is how society is but have you also met like that's one category of girls and second category of girls are like who have helplessly just given into patriarchy like they just know that their lives are going to be like this and there is a gender gap and you can't be any other as like you know you guys said that there is no end to it currently those people who have just accepted to be our new or by the time we're old this is not going to change so have you experienced hatred from these kind of people I think I have experienced it in my own family I mean I've seen people of my own generation in my family thinking that Shadi's the end game you know there's nothing beyond that Shadi's the balance parents Shadi ke bad it's husband there's no end between and you know the financial dependent you can't avoid financially dependent if she's a mom she has to be you know at home and take care of the child and everything so and I don't know how to change that I mean if I can't and I think so I don't know that I don't change really upload family all of the other students so how is it going to change others which is honestly so sad I get what Tamshti is saying so what I tried to do in my family was that I actually proved it to them that you are you can so I always thought that my parents also believe that you know girls can't do anything they cannot be financially independent and so I was 16 and I organized a direct event and that got me a lot of to see it so I think that was the first time that my dad actually thought that yeah I could also do something and then I think it's a promise you make to yourself that you wouldn't ever look back and you know no matter what anyone says you have to go a bit out of the way to know yourself because I mean I know it sounds wrong but we have had to prove ourselves fine and again also Tamshti also mentioned that as women we have internalized misogyny and the patriarchal laws that the society has put before us and it's not just you know that you know internalized this for art like it's not just that we look exactly but we are also throwing this upon other like also there was this incident where I tried to post why so he wrote ads for the poor we all know her so she had posted a picture of her in our mini score and she got this comments from a woman that you know why you wearing such a short skirt is it your daughter Misha's skirt to this she replied that if women judge other women that the length of their skirts doesn't justify the empowerment we are seeking and a similar thing happened with Malayaka Rura too that when she was wearing a dress that was considered short by some women so she went on to say that the finder herself a rich businessman you get married and she was locked shame too so I think these are the things which make us you know rethink that women also you know a through a hate upon other women for trying to be themselves you know so better be heading at the society I'm really agree because I think everybody like who is a girl has faced this in school because T1 I know has had an experience where they they told me so my Scott Kalent was a little bit over so that's why my teachers loved shame me my teachers that I personally had an experience where I was sitting in a certain way or right I was just sitting with my five open and apparently it was an invitation to other guys to come and talk to me or whatever so it is so internalized that our parents do it sometimes without realizing our teachers do it and this is where we get our socialization from this is where we live. the lawn thing. So we just keep taking it in more and more and then we finally like at this age when we start looking into things and when we start reading upon things we realize that all of these years we have just been protecting it onto others and also imbibing it. So before pointing fingers at anyone else I would like to say that I myself have been a misogynist by hating on other women because from media, from movies, Hollywood movies, Hollywood series, Hollywood series you see that women are always seen as like if they are in a family together they have to be pitted against each other. If they are you know two successful women you will see people talking about oh how do you feel to be more successful than her because it's always seen like I think it is because people know that when a community is unified together there can be a lot of change and I think that is the main reason why we are always pitted against each other that we are talked to hate other women but that is very wrong and I think that is where our misogynist lives in the Bible because we start hating on other women. We start taking down other women instead we should be like holding hands and be just crushing the patriarchy down together and doing things together instead of hating on each other and canceling each other. So I would like to share my personal experience about cyber brain and about how women have already fallen into patriarchy that time. So I think it is my 90th time standard I had on Facebook account. So some one should third I had had my account and created a fake profile of me, edited some of my pictures and then that particular person would message I do my relatives and my friends and send them my pictures and write about it if you don't talk to me and this was a guy. So if you don't talk about me I will leave your pictures here and I will edit your pictures as I did and you shall see pictures. So all of this happened and this happened for the day and I was not a word of it but people thought that I was a misogynist or something but then when it started getting serious my mom got a call about it. So I was in Amritsadatta in my 90th phase. So my mom got hyper even I was very tense. So we went to the cyber brain department and we filed a case against it and luckily action was taken about it. But then what happened there before we went there we had like 15 minute conversation where my husband and some of my relatives were sitting there and they were like in an asi cupra time it was asi you know. Then there was a discussion about it by asi cupra time it was like you were going there and you were like you don't want to be a girl. But I was crying that time because I was sensitive but then I was like you know that my mom was spitting me that time so that was a plus point for me but whatever this happened had a huge impact on me because someone has edited my pictures and leaking it on the other side I wasn't ready for it. All of this happened. So this thing about patriarchy about women giving up to patriarchy is very orthodox and it is happening since then and it will happen it is still happening. My mom is also come over so about these short clothes that we got and all this. This is we should be talking about it. I mean we are human we have a right we should know what to do where to go and what to wear and if the enemy got short clothes that is not right you cannot blame to victim but you need to blame the mentality and that is how we can change in spread awareness. So yes. I think I completely agree with you Anisha that you know we are always you know blame for everything that happens to us like even after being the victims of this patriarchy society we are the ones who are blame even for rapes and sexual assaults and stuff. And you know just I think yesterday or day before yesterday there was a news I don't remember it very well so you know correct me if any of you guys are heard about it. So I think there were two girls who were sexually assaulted on a beach because they were dead at midnight or something and a very high level minister there went on to command that girls should not be allowed to go on the beach. So this is the response right that if she is raped then it's all for because she was at the beach. If she is raped it was all for because she was wearing short clothes or she was women not alone at night. Isha Bhutan a modular influencer. So she had put out some pictures and you know the comments were flooded with such things like earlier you used to stand up for rapes but then you are posting these pictures and obviously these pictures are what I encourage you men to you know go and rape people and sexually assault people. So I think it's you know how it and that we speak about this that we need to stop victim blaming we need to stop putting the blame on victims for wearing the clothes that they like or going to places that they like you know to try and we understand that and internalize this instead of the patriarchal law that society has forced us to internalize over these laws. In writing the art generation is still normalizing it but from where it is coming from I don't know how to normalize it but if there ever you go you know people of art it's just supporting us okay we are wearing this clothes that is still okay but that parents or our relatives or some creepy uncle who is staring us that is somebody where it starts getting uncomfortable and then if we want to speak about it we have to get engaged and no one is actually ready to hear us out. Exactly absolutely man like in my family too so if I have to go out alone at night my mom would say that it's not because we're orthodox but we are concerned for safety after some point of time you actually cannot argue with that because the society here and the environment here in India is actually unsafe right so like I don't know how to say this but if I am going out alone at 4 o'clock in the end then I have also felt a bit unsafe because so there was this incident where I was walking when I was after my dinner I had gone for a walk and the person randomly started following me and so I don't know if I have to mention the word "thank you" you're not but I saw my aunt nearby and I went and told her that let's go home because someone's been following me for a long time and I even tried to change my way you know go in a different direction and still he kept following me so no one was around and I didn't know what to do so then she sobbed me and then she went on to that person and she told that please back off because this is not what you're supposed to do don't you have sisters or mothers of your own at your home and you know so she shouted at him that that he let but then I tell that when our parents tell us that you know don't go out so we fight for that but do you think that you're actually that's strong enough to go out actually at night and this is a bit controversial but I personally do feel unsafe because there have been so many incidents one of my acquaintances was walking and it was just 70 and and someone grabbed her butt right in the middle of the street and she was numb because she didn't know how to react to that you know like I know a lot of people might be listening to this and will be wondering you okay this is such a common topic and everyone stopped our feminism everyone stopped about you know rape and sexual assault by the thing is you know every girl when she fights with her parents to go out for a party at night and then she had that huge conversation they please let me go and whatever and your parents like nice safety you cannot argue with them because obviously they're thinking about your safety and they're not wrong in that place to say that okay what if something happens to you and you want a girl said and then you're like you know what patriarchy and that is why we have to talk about it till people don't understand it listen we are actually suffering not because we're like parties or whatever but like I remember Dejan and I a few months ago when we know we had a college who was coming out and you were one thinking about where we're gonna go for college and you know we had we were having these conversations with our parents that they were not letting us go outside the city or go out too far or like the other part of India because they were like safety and we were so mad because okay we are giving up good colleges good places which will get great opportunities because of your safety and that is why we will host a number of podcasts on this and shows and ingrain it into all our movies and fiction novels because people need to understand that so like yeah I really get what you guys are trying to say and I want to just like sort of direct the conversation to another place so since they've been under you talked about how we need to start talking about it from school right from our parents and from school as in like you know you teach everything at school so why not teach this and I think this person in the chat box wrote that you know there should be compliance courses on inclusivity and on internet right on how you behave yourself in the cyber world. What exactly like how much does it help you so last time we didn't do a live but we did a few recorded sessions with teacher Ravaz and we were talking about all of these things you know common question with student have like why don't you teach sexual education why don't you like talk about sex head with both the renters in one place why don't you talk about LGBTQI plus all of that and you know when we were talking about okay you know boy should learn about you know periods and menstruation and they should know what feminism is and all of that. I teach I was like you know if you put men both boys and girls in the same room and you talk about sex you talk about in general reproductive health and all of that don't you think it would be uncomfortable for boys and girls to learn the same thing so I don't know your thoughts in that and okay if as people let's say if we were to design a course or a workshop which is to be conducted in all the schools of India on cyber safety and how boys and girls both should be you know inclusive online what would you want to talk about and how exactly would you think it should be conducted and do you think would it help people. I think to make it inclusive first of all like the thing you talked about uncomfortable situation like if you're in a sex head class I think the first to change that uncomfortable because it is something very new and it has been put out in front of you and you are feeling uncomfortable. So that means that this is a start so we should start with that uncomfortable situation and make it into a normal situation. That is how normalization should happen like inclusion. It is so uncomfortable because it was never there before. So I think to make sure from the internet at least if not in real life people should understand that okay there are differences like if you are an ally, if you are an ally to feminism and if you believe in feminism then I feel like you should not take the narrative away from someone who has lived experiences. If you do not agree with them, tell them respectfully okay I do not agree with you on this, this xyz is the reason why I do not agree with you on this and then just leave it. Do not keep abusing or setting threads or just being nasty. If you don't like a content just scroll through it, scrolls past it or block that account. I do not want to go ahead because there is already so much of hate in the world. Should be a safe space somewhere for us. Yeah I think I totally agree with Devanandini on this. Also I feel that Tamiya is for according to me it is actually important to have these classes for you know have these classes at co-educational classes because the world need to hear out the girls' stances right and they need to hear out our stories to actually know what are we going through. It is extremely important to know the other gender's point of view to actually bring about to change. So I think that's my take on that and obviously these classes will help because you know when we are speaking about this on social media it does not ensure that every person is listening to us every person we know because like here also the people who are interested in this topic would come here and listen to us but what about the others what about the people who are actually throwing hate upon other people on social media. So when these classes start at the primary school level and you know this is a compulsion just like the other subjects I think that is how we progress as a society to create a safer space for all of us. So I feel like there should be a course like this is a very important thing it might be sounding like it's not important but there should be a course on how to listen to others and how to empathize not sympathize but empathize but yourself and the other person should and feel how difficult the situation is before something so I feel like there should be a course on empathy and learning how to listen and learning how to love. So much of hate in the world I don't see love anymore and I think people should be taught how to love at this point. Ya man definitely I feel that people definitely need to understand the difference between empathizing and sympathizing also on a completely you know unrelated note and on a lighter note that some people should also take a course on how to start up right because of the kind of things that they go on to speak on the internet about other people. So yeah. Cool. So like similar to talking about it like even if you do teach people and teach empathy whatever how much of a difference do you think is going to make like I do understand that you know it's and then we're not seeing any end to it right like even though so we had a workshop in our school I remember on cyber crime and you know it was basically in general that okay you know your photos can get morphed you can have people DMing you and this you shouldn't be replying to people and all of that whatever but you know in a certain way it does like scare you because if I want to like let's say become an influencer or become a content creator I have to show my face I have to prove myself out there. So how to deal with that like you know how much of a difference do you think it's going to make because I don't think that really had a huge difference on me per say or anyone else in general. I still see people doing whatever they want online. So how exactly what do you think I'll be given to children in junior college like 11th and 12th 9th 10th what exactly do you think it's going to work out like I honestly are telling that you're shows and everything is interesting that's it because back at my school when this happened I remember a lot of them coming out and speaking about their experiences and once they start so there was this entire group of people who had come back to our school for a three day workshop so all of them were victims of something. So when they came up they started talking to us and they started educating us about LGBTQ committee about cyber bullying and everything so people like me like you start about being an influencer or making your account public. After what happened with me I was very scared I was off social media for a year I guess but then after this one particular workshop I remember I created my I activated my account after that. So again I think in between all of it someone had created again a fake account of me on my Tinder on Tinder and Bumble. So I was hearing call from the and this happened somewhere in Delhi so I had good friends I got to know about it so I was again scared but then attending workshops like this it does you know give me a sense of like your someone is where he was struggling the same thing if I do not speak or if I don't come up and talk about it and you know bring myself out there so I'm used to that and just putting myself back and I do not want to do it. So for me personally that workshop did help a lot. So Amisha had what you said and I would like to say that you know so when I had posted my real and poke out of there love I remember messaging the next day that you know I'm so scared of putting my face out there because there are people commenting on my looks and stuff and DMing us such horrible stuff and I told her that I don't know if I'm sure that if I want to put up myself in the reals out there because you know what if someone messies with my picture because we've all heard of cases where people have misused your picture and put it on platform that we're not meant to be. So Amisha like you said that it helps you when you know that other people are going through the same thing too. But then what next like how do you stop the fear of your picture going out because like we heard of the silly deals case right there the pictures were picked up from the social media accounts and they were put up on GitHub and you know with the with captions like deal of the day. So this is I think we reach the highest level of objectifying women in general by auctioning them online without their consent like for the more women would give consent to auctioning them because that in itself sounds so absolutely wrong and disgusting. But still it went on to happen and then for weeks the website did not respond to the police you know police reports or anything when the police were asking them to give a justification or whatever or to reply that didn't respond at all and I think I don't know if some action has been taken right now but I came across some news today back about it. So you know these things make us feel so unsafe that if we make our account public then what next anyone can get up to show put it up anything or put it up anywhere and we wouldn't even come to know of it like it could be your when someone tells us that you know I saw a picture on that website and what do you do then like Anisha how do you deal with that. Okay I was just like to say that whenever this happens if you're putting out so they're in public there is a fear when I made my Instagram account public for like this like that I had this fear in me because the moment I had made it public it was after a week I got to know about this rubbish thing there and public accounts I was scared to the court I'm not playing I wasn't but then there was something in me I was ready to face it because whatever had happened with me there were a lot of people who had supported me and I knew what if I'm putting something out there something will happen but to this extent I wasn't ready but somewhere I knew it so you know as a woman there's some instincts there's something that is inbuilt we need to face it no matter what that is I know that is really terrible but I think it happens it does happen you know when I when I started joining Twitter I see a lot of people taking posts on Instagram to posting it to to it anonymously and I think this is my goal such shit does happen I'm referring to us this I should because this really is we as a woman we've been objectified a lot when when I got to know about so let me tell you I'm not even kidding I had goosebumps all around my body one of my best friend is Muslim okay I cannot imagine someone having her picture and then below it is written put up for sale I mean how can the world go down to this level there is a lie for everything and anything we do there is no end to it at all and about getting scared I understand see it was very busy okay I'm not getting it was terrible so many other people have gone through it then I was there in a boarding school I had many cases such a such this but all of you know like we have to face it there is no other option this will continue to happen as long as there are hackers there are people who have this you know this right to have an anonymous ID they do all this but to face it and to have support I think that is all it's needed and to speak up about it because the movie speak up the movie building a army with us so yes that's it and you know what do you think so like when I heard all of this and you know this can't be the way to go about it that we just accepted that this will continue to happen. There has to be some solution to everything I feel. So what do you think about this social media platforms had a proper thorough verification process for every account that is being created right? So like now I think on Instagram there's this option that if you block someone you have the option of blocking the other account that they may create. So I think we are moving along that line and in the near future if we all continue to speak up the way we are currently I think there might be some change right because I think unhook is what we live right we can't stop hoping we can't stop hustling we can't stop bringing about a change. So what do you think about this that if social media platforms had a proper you know intensive verification precise for anyone to create an account? You know honestly I think that's one thing required of the same time it's also a thing of like data privacy to the amount like I mean okay so I obviously believe that you know nothing is free in terms of the cyber world that even if you're making an account for free on Instagram you're you're actually selling your data over there no matter whether you like it or not your data is with Facebook and Instagram or whatever. So obviously there's an issue about when you verify your account and like you have to give in some proof so obviously there's a huge issue of getting your data you know misuse as well so that's another debate altogether about data privacy but I do like the point where what Instagram is trying to do that you know you will you can automatically block whatever or any other accounts they further make. So again as someone said in the chat box that you know making verification added steps to securities blocking the action of the intent. So as I said earlier that you know even if you make a law you actually create something the intent is always going to be there but what I can hope is like now we don't see the end to all of this right. I think at some point of time our ancestors fought for like a right to vote so that we would get a right to vote a right to work a right to own property that's why we today we don't worry about it like we know we can work we know that we can own property even though there are a lot of loopholes with that as well but we get that. So I the only thing I can see is that maybe at 20 30 years of 40 50 years even if down the line if the author still a planet and you know climate change is not just made us all extinct that maybe we are future generations wouldn't worry about these things because people's mindset would have changed that you now you don't ask okay why don't girls have a right to vote because you know you already have it you don't worry about it so maybe looking far into the future that at some point of time there will be something that that you know we won't worry about these things and I really hope that if we keep on continuing to talk about it like as you said that you guys are doing a great job while talking about it and actually being like no you know we will not back down if we get backlash will actually go and talk about it and tell people that you know what whatever you're doing is wrong I hope that a lot of other creators keep on talking about it and also even men talking about it like I really hate the fact that you know what when it comes to talk about feminism it's always girls talking and never boys like okay if you want feminism to stop it goes both ways the oppressor also has to come and say you okay you know what whatever we did or whatever previous generations did is wrong because if you're permitting it you're promoting it right I really feel that as someone said that why they know girls why are the only girls on this panel are boys the thing is boys don't want to talk about feminism they don't want to talk about it they just will probably go and leave like I literally had a clubhouse room a few weeks ago where you know me and a few other you know female law students and lawyers we were talking about how you know litigation or the law field in India is you know still male dominated and they're like you know they know female judges and all of that and that's how so many problems in terms of legal aspects like as they been and they say that you know even rape laws have loopholes there is a why they still have loopholes is because women are not considered into making those laws right and we're talking about it and I don't know like slowly every few seconds all these boys who are on the speaking panel were leaving the room and we actually ended up laughing you know what we're talking feminism and they just made them uncomfortable so like yeah another point to get into mind like a lot of people might have felt uncomfortable by this but feminism is not meant to comfort men so yeah that's all I think people need to understand that feminism is not against men it is against patriarchy patriarchy is an institution the which we are like consumed with like we are all just consumed with patriarchy if it is not against men but it is against an institution which based on discrimination violence and oppression so of course we would love men I mean if we would have I mean I would love it if there would have been any males you know speaking out with us and but just remember that you had an ally but I'm trying to take the narrative away we would love men I mean for every movement to move forward or actually succeed it has to be a community effort everybody has to you know come along and help and men will see a huge part in it because patriarchy runs on men so when men come and help us come and talk with us at least give us that faith space where we can share our lived experiences it would be a wonderful place completely agree with what the Nandini said that you know obviously we should have movement talking about it and it's not like that movement talk about it obviously there are men talking about it but like the Nisha mentioned that most of them feel uncomfortable or feel that it's not that important because I feel they are not going through the same things as we are they are not facing patriarchy so they probably don't understand how important it is to all that as a society we're invading women because of absolute nonsense so you know they don't get that feeling so probably that's why they feel uncomfortable and they feel that it's not necessary to speak out speak out about such things I really get like even looking at the chat box right now like a lot of voices in the West stereotyping then I'm so sorry I didn't mean to do that but the thing is the number of boys who I know who actually personally advocate for feminism like I actually had boys who are like one they just don't like it because they're like you know it's like you're saying that oh women were oppressed for so long and now you will oppress others which is not what feminism is about second thing another boys boys category of boys who I've seen are like oh we believe in gender equality but we won't call ourselves feminists because we don't like the word which is just like it's dumb like okay if I don't like your name will I will still call you by that right it's still like your name it's something which is there so even if you don't like the word feminist it is what we're calling it if you talk about gender equality it's feminism right so I mean it's also that and third a little the very few boys who actually say okay I'm a feminist and actually believe in whatever these people are talking about so there are very few boys who are actually publicly ready to talk about it and like I mean how many male celebrities can you actually name who go on advocating for feminism and talk with women empowerment because I mean you need them to talk about it instead of like talking about feminism they will come with oh you know what they started hashtag me to move it with start hashtag men do and I don't know when since you know me became a gender specific pronoun but like yeah that's what I wanted to say and I mean if you guys have anything to like sum up so because I mean it was great having you guys here I think we talked about a lot of stuff and I really hope that people will listen to this and go back and sort of deflect other reactions and be careful online so we are anything against one is tell us and from to thank you for having us all over you and you know especially Amisha and all your shadow experiences which I have never thought that you know you've experienced before so I think it was a great platform for all of us and it's such a great thing that you all are doing our love your podcast and I feel like you know I hope all of the listeners take back something to point the point and something to think about from today's session so yeah that's all it's a lovely thank you so much for having us I mean I was so nervous about this but this turned out to be a great session and a lot of things came up so yeah thank you for giving us the platform I felt great being here today I mean wherever I shared about my experience I feel so good about it so thanks to this podcast today love you thank you so much guys and I know I was the only one talking today but this is like a two-person podcast the action is also here as a host but my isn't working and that's because our podcast is infamous for no like for having technical glitches every single time we either forget to record or the submission with the recording or someone cannot speak so yeah that's one thing about you can check us out on Spotify Google Podcast Apple Podcast as well as Instagram and please go on Instagram and search for the girl up I'll put their Instagram page link here as well and check them out they really give a lot of informative stuff so even if you're like new to the idea of feminism or you don't really know the crux of it the jinx of it and you want to learn something they're the best people to learn from so yeah thank you so much for coming today and thanks to everyone who's ranting in the chat box because it really feels that okay there are people listening to us and to all the people who stuck till the end I love you guys thank you so much and they should I hope you get your mic fixed like I'm tired right now but yeah thank you so much girls