E1218 - LIB Reunion w/ Wilnie, Adam Conover Talks Dating, RHOSLC & Sofia Franklyn Drama

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files reality recap edition i'm your host nick joined by my you're looking great today wife thank you um you really been crushing the style lately killing it yesterday she wore like these baggy jeans and like falling off her like skinny little hips yeah um and then she just had like this i think it was maybe even my sweatshirt oversized and it was just like she it was like it was she's been crushing the mom outfits but they're like what's underneath oh my gosh i feel the same and i'm not your husband so oh it means more coming from you you really do kill it though like walking in today i mean this is my first time seeing you guys you really do kill it though like walking in today i mean this is my first time seeing you in person in months has it is it yes you two are looking great suzy oh thanks your hair is curly yeah the hair i'm doing a brand deal for a curl company so i had it's working thank you okay but no i haven't seen you guys in so long and i walk in and i'm just like i actually don't understand how you had twins much less a child not that long ago but also the style natalie looks so good today i had to change my outfit really nick was she made you rethink closet i was like yeah she looks yeah i can't yeah this isn't listen it's really hard post kids to figure out like what your style is because i used to wear you know so many crop tops and now i'm like it feels wrong to like show my midriff right i'm like oh my god i'm naked that's disgusting oh my god like i can't do that so it's just i've been cleaning out the closet a that before we started recording this shirt when i worked i was a surgical tech i worked at the georgia institute for plastic surgery love to see it love to see it and there was a bunch of other doctors there and one of the nurses she was much older than i was at the time and she brought in a bunch of her clothes and she was like i'm giving these away is that one of them and i took this shirt being like okay that's kind of cute i guess i literally never never worn it this is the first time i've put it on my body it's gorge really cute shout out really cute i love that well you've always been a style icon for me because we're both tall women we are and i will never forget it it was it was probably years ago maybe two years ago and i said something about feeling self-conscious because i was so i was like i feel so fucking excuse my language i was like i feel so fucking big right now we were in some room with all these little bachelor bitches and i was like i'm just a huge giant green like huge woman over here and you were like not me i don't care i tower over everybody and i own it and i was like i didn't know you that well but i remember thinking i was like i need to channel that energy because obviously people don't realize how small the bachelor women are they are petite teensy weensy little babies little ladybug yes and i'm i'm five foot eight shrek coming in i put a heel on and i'm like i feel massive it's it's awful to see myself in a picture next to them but i know i'm safe with you because you do not shy away from heels you literally own it and it it has empowered me over the years and you are like my little style icon yeah oh my god so send that nice elder woman my way if she's got hand-me-downs that elder woman your way you kill it oh my god that was lovely that was lovely we should come in studio more often yeah and see seuss well we have a jam-packed episode and week lined up for you guys uh adam conover uh hilarious comedian you probably know him from adam ruins blank or adam ruins everything you know it's uh he's got some really great funny viral videos where he takes a topic like the mattress industry and explains to you why it's i guess bullshit more complicated than you may more complicated you know than you may realize oh money laundering i don't know women shaving he got into women shaving yeah we should talk to the societal pressures i'm wearing a sweater societal pressures the leg hair on my legs yeah won't be wearing shorts that's right i heard it's no shaving we also lots lots lots of brahma reality tv drama going on we'll obviously get into we have wilney from love is blind following the uh finale and reunion it's a big love is blind week lined up for you here at the vile files uh we also tomorrow for an explosive going deeper we have we have the two people like if you were to be like who are the two people you would want post interviews heroes from love is blind heroes who have the most did we watch reunion and feel like there was more meat on the bone that we wanted to pull back and and get more information probably yes it's mckayla and sarah they're with us oh okay uh following the reunion uh lots to get into obviously with the divorce maybe annulment strong d that would be i don't know nice for john uh and then we obviously have the mckayla and rob of it all and it felt like rob kind of got off the hook a little bit at the reunion totally felt that way as well so anyways mckayla and sarah with us in studio to really put a bow on the season of love is blind lots to talk about your jaw will be on the floor uh that is tomorrow uh and in case he didn't get everything out that he wanted to say at the reunion mori is going to be with us on thursday he looks like he has a lot that he's been holding on to yes and obviously there were so many people at the reunion he he didn't we're going to give him the floor and we're going to see what happens fun and i feel like yeah i feel like it could be fun this is like so out of the blue but do you that you want is there a number where you're like okay we've gone too far obviously never but you know what i mean like right is there a goal i understand why nick's mom had 11 it makes so much sense to me i saw a video the other day and it was a woman in the hospital bed after delivering a baby and she had like her iced coffee her sleeping baby and she was like knowing that the next time i'm in this room will be as a grandmother and i was like can't be me it's a little dramatic i'm not interested in ever feeling that feeling so i feel like maybe two three more i think a few for sure every time someone asks if we're gonna have more after twins and i say yes they're always like what yeah i'm like i mean definitely come on at least two more i think wow at least you guys are truly having one after two seems a lot easier having one after two yeah you're like i've already done this times 10 and also the they say you know having one child is equivalent to having one child having three children is the equivalent to having 12 children having four the equivalent to four five i don't know who said three is just like the hardest number apparently yeah and going one to three is probably a huge jump huge jump having the twins at this age they're still like little potatoes they're smiling now we're getting some personality but like having a two and a half year makes it doesn't make it harder yeah my best friend macy she is the girl who designed my wedding dresses actually also but she just gave birth to her twin girls that's crazy crazy there's so many twins in y'all's world they're everywhere i'm seeing them everywhere they're everywhere sarah and mckayla are also both twins nuts what i don't know they're everywhere but she was like i'm so like how is it is it so hard she's like obviously so stressed these are her first kids and i'm like yeah you have one your husband takes the other y'all are good yeah there's nothing to stress about it's gonna be so easy truly with us like that's a different beast yeah i checked the mail the other day and there was an amazon toy like magazine i was like oh usually i throw away all the junk you know but i was like oh this could be like fun i remember as a kid looking at circling what you wanted yes and so i was like i gotta introduce her to this you know cute so i gave it to her and i'm like okay we're trying to explain first of all halloween was so much fun this year because she's finally understanding so now i'm like trying to explain christmas to her we've started the brainwashing yeah we're starting the like do i need to call santa yes yeah yeah but she's like yes we've got him on speak dial yeah she's like put him on speaker she's like yeah and i want to i want to hear him i want to talk to him i will say though i have a religious okay i'm not religious today okay but it is kind of weird and our daughter does go to a christian preschool which is like mostly because we like the school and we're like sure you can talk about god around her you know yeah what's the worst that can happen um but it is weird teaching her about something the pagan side of christmas in a way that like it's not how i learned about christmas you know and it feels weird how do you do it we're just like santa you just you know if you're a little shit you're not gonna get any presents okay i did not grow up religious my mom and i were like i'm not gonna get any presents i'm not gonna get any presents i'm not gonna get any presents she was like i don't have time to also like take y'all to church you know like she was like figure it out you're on your own do your own thing and that's why i went to school one day and i was like i am buddhist and all the girls were like kill her i was like i don't know it's just what i heard honestly buddhism would be like a good one i think they're that's really peaceful well not the little christian girls at my school they i got real bullied for it so but i came home and i was like mom it didn't work so then i went to youth group for years after that - Oh, we're so similar. - So all I know, is like, obviously, Santa Claus coming down the chimney, reindeer presents, right? So that's what I've been instilling in our daughter. I guess if you wanted to teach her the religious side of it, you could. Sure. I'm just like, I don't know. We're paying. Can we just be like, you got this? Yeah, you guys take care of that. We'll do this. We'll do the presents. You guys do the Jesus part. I think that's fair. I don't know. But anyway, so she's been like obsessing over this toy magazine. And she's been every like every so often I'll look at her and she's like sitting down like flipping through it again. Stop. And there's a Barbie with a horse like carriage in it that I circled for her. And she's calling. She's like never played with Barbies. She doesn't really know. I just feel like she's a little too young. Yeah, a little too young. Yeah. We'll get to that eventually. Yes. But she calls them barbers. She keeps talking about the barber with the horse and the seat with it. And I'm like, girl, I know. What you're talking about. Are you guys going to get it for her? I think so. Yeah. Because now she's like obsessing over it. We're getting her a Barbie? Well, it's like a Barbie with a horse. It's just like it's I don't know. It's a horse. Is it a horse and carriage? It's a horse and carriage. Look at that. With a Barbie. She wakes up every morning and she's like, are my toys here? Like I'm like, OK, we need to get an advent calendar. Yeah. Because like how else do you count down till Christmas? You know? Right. What is advent? You're asking me what advent means? The definition of the word. Susie, I feel like you should take this one. I would. I just I want you to also I want you to know. I feel like he asked you. No, I think that I know what it is. It's a count. It's called it's a countdown. It's a countdown. It's a countdown. What is the definition of advent, you guys? What is the definition of advent? The arrival, approach, or coming into being of a notable person, event, or invention. Exactly. For our family, it meant the rosary. That's what I was going to say. The rosary? During advent, we'd have to say the rosary every night as a family. Oh, I was thinking of rosary. On our knees. Do you start on December 1st? No, it's a six-week thing, I believe. Six weeks. Or is that Lent? Or are they both six weeks? Four weeks. It's four weeks. It's four weeks before Christmas. So then there's like the advent candles. Every single week, you do the thing. And that's when you bring up the nativity scene with the shepherds. Because they all got there at different times, allegedly. I also was not raised religious, but my mom was raised very strict Catholic, like traumatizing, you know? But when I was little, she did teach me like little things, like when you lose some things, you pray to Saint. Michael. Oh, is it Michael? Or. One of them. I prayed to a different one the other day. Christopher? Uh-oh. Saint. You're like, I haven't found anything. Saint Anthony. What? Yeah. Saint Anthony? No wonder Nick isn't finding anything. But I was like so stressed. I was in the middle of like a thousand things happening. I'm like balancing so much. I had to film something for a brand deal, but there was no light coming through my window. And I was like, and I just moved. So I'm like trying to find this plug for this light. And I was like, I prayed to a saint. I prayed to Saint Anthony. And I was like, if you exist, please help me find this plug amongst the thousands of boxes that are still like waiting moments later. Literally moments later, I opened the perfect thing. It was exact. And I'm like, how did. Like, I literally was like, I think I need to go become a Catholic. Literally, shout out Saint Anthony. Shout out Saint. Saint? Shout out Tony. Shout out Tony. Shout out Tony. It worked, you guys. It was. It really kind of shook me where I was like, I think I might need to go to church. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Speaking of Advent calendars. Yeah. Do we want to go there? Because I've seen this crazy video. Crazy video. So Skims released. Skims, you know. You know Skims. I'm wearing them right now. So Skims released an Advent calendar for $150. Okay? So you buy the Advent calendar and you know, every day you see what you got in there. $150. And it says it retails. Or no, there was no listed retail value. Okay? Which number one. Where do you find this out of a Skims store? Skims.com. Skims.com. Okay. People are like, oh my gosh, you know, like we got it. It's the accessory. It's labeled as like the accessories Advent calendar. So people are getting it. People are opening them up on camera. Uh-oh. It is bad. So $150, you get unpackaged three hair ties. I don't know. I know. I was looking to see if I had one too. What do you mean? They don't come in like. Nope. Is there not like a little village? You don't open up a little perforated door? You open up a door. And it's three loose hair ties. That's one of them. Bang. Let's hit another one. Maybe day five is going to be a little better. Three bobby pins. Wait, wait, wait. What's the problem? What's the problem? What do you expect in there? $150? A phone case. Yeah. Lip gloss. Undies. Underwear. They put bra straps in there for one of them. Bra straps. Straps. No bra. No bra. It's an Advent calendar. But you got the strap. There's usually little pieces of chocolate in it. You know, you get. But a bobby pin? For $150? Three bobby pins is good. My idea is, like, you're charging me $150. There better be $150 worth of stuff in there. For sure. And it's Kim Kardashian. Like, come on, Kim. That's the thing is I'm like, it's. Like, Kim. I just don't think there's any way she signed off on this. What else is there in there? There's. More hair ties. There's more hair ties. Three more hair ties. There's literally, like, four different types of. Like rubber bands. Yes. Just a bunch of rubber bands. A scrunchie that says Skims, but it doesn't connect to anything. It's just a little squishy about this big. It says Skims. Skims. Yeah, like a little keychain. Yeah. Everyone's like, I don't want to wear that keychain. A comb. There's a comb. Okay. But it doesn't operate as a comb. It is a rubber keychain comb. Nope. It doesn't operate as a comb. It looks like could be a comb. Has Skims. Addressed it? Addressed it? As far as I know, no. Yes, they have. Oh, they have. So they are refunding anyone full refund to their original payment method or $150 of store credit, whatever you want. I'll take the store credit. Yeah. I thought that was a good response, though. I'm like, good for them. I agree. They are acknowledging this was bad. I think last minute. They were like, we should do an advent calendar. And they just threw something together. I don't think they thought this through because I am easily. If it was 30 bucks. Sure. 30 bucks, yeah. We're fine with everything, whatever's inside. Even 30 bucks. I'm like, that's still a little bit much. It's like the hair ties aren't even packaged nicely. They're just like dropped in there. Like someone literally said, this is all stuff I find under my couch. And it's so true. Like a fifth grader to school project. Yes. And just threw a bunch of random shit. And we're going to make an advent calendar. We're going to open up the couch cushion. Yes. We're going to go in. We're going to find what's there. They might as well have put like a couple of coins. Yeah. Some coins. Some like a lost fingernail. We had crumbs all over the couch this weekend. And it took till Sunday afternoon for me to vacuum it. That's kind of our. That's okay. We have three kids. I don't. Celebrities. They're just like us. Yeah. Thankfully, they did release a statement. They said, we understand the calendar didn't meet expectations and we have personally contacted every customer who purchased the calendar and offered them a choice of a full refund or a SKIMS credit to put down towards other products. I guess. Yeah. Or like, did they only do it to the people who made videos that went viral? Right. And there's a bunch of other advent calendars that do stuff like this. So they're not unique in that way. But. I think it's good that they addressed it. Yeah. Do you. I feel like next season of Keeping Up, we're going to see Kim being like crashing out over the advent calendar. On the phone with somebody. Who approved this? No. I can only imagine. She's enjoying her time. She's enjoying her day. It's Thursday afternoon. She's like, what a long day. I'm going to unwind. I'm going to kick back. I'm going to enjoy the rest of my day. Just scroll on Instagram. I'm just scrolling. Whatever she does to enjoy. And then she got a call from someone on her team. Oh, no, no, no, no. She saw this herself. Tagged a million times. Kim, there's a problem. And then she's like, I'm going to get blamed for this. Yeah, it just ruined her day. I can, you know, poor Kim. And I personally, if she didn't know it was in it, like I stumbled across the video having seen a lot of videos. And then a few scrolls later, it was the video. And I was like, everyone loves to complain. You know, nobody's happy with anything. I really thought it was going to be not that bad. And me, as somebody who is easily impressed, I'm like, I'm cool with whatever. I'll take whatever. Yeah. I was like, this is crazy. Crazy. Crazy. So I just can imagine Kim probably had a very similar experience to me where she's like, it can't be that bad. And then you watch the video and you're like, oh, my God. Or like the picture of all the stuff. It's on a table. And it's like literally five items. And it's weird because for skims, they do everything great in a way that you're like, oh, why haven't people always made underwear this way? Exactly. And you would expect the same from an advent calendar. So we were like, oh, what can they do for $150 with an advent calendar? Let's find out. And then it was school project. Yes. Oof. That was tough. Brutal. Brutal. Did you guys see Angie and Sophia Franklin on a walk? Watch what happens live. I thought it was awesome. It did make its way across my desk. It did make its way across my desk as well. It found its way onto my For You page. First of all, I felt like it was exactly what Angie needed after last episode, which I feel like everyone is kind of like, that was a really bad beat for Angie. And I feel like the overall sentiment is, I don't know, she was losing her mind. There's no way she meant that. Of course. And I feel like everyone's kind of like. This is not the thing we want to ruin. I don't know. Right? I agree. It was such a. I think she. Just a bad moment. Yeah. It was a throwaway comment that she didn't intend. She wasn't thinking through the context of their lives and what was going on. And she probably didn't handle it the best. For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, obviously at the end of last week's episode of Salt Lake City, there's another dinner scene where the women are fighting. We have Angie and Bronwyn going at it. Mary chimes in because she actually is not. Angie and this. No, no, no, no, no. Mary. I mean, Angie threw in Mary's name. Sure. Mary was like, keep your name on your mind. my mouth because in this particular instance i'm not seeing your side of things and then mary brought up uh angie's husband and angie's child to which andrew quickly rebuttaled with her as her sniper words what about yours and given obviously what mary's going through right now it seemed like the absolute horrific and most worst thing you could say which in real time all of the other women react appropriately they're all like oh my god i can't believe she just said that and it like still doesn't register to angie she's still just like on this like i can't get a fucking facial really i felt like it kind of registered in a way but then you know because she had this almost like pause look on her face and then she bizarrely kept going as opposed to being like i oh my god i think she realized and i think she tried to make it not about that comment and about that comment and about the fact that she was like oh my god i can't get a fucking facial and i think she tried to make it not about that comment and about the fact that she was like oh my god i can't get a fucking facial and i think she tried to make it not about that comment and about the fact that she was like oh my god i can't get a fucking facial yeah you know like i think she tried to just continue with what she was upset about and try to act like like brush it under the rug yeah well that's saying i think we all agree that like angie didn't realize what she was saying in the moment yes then that's became angie's immediate defense which is like i would never actually say and mean that and i'm going to argue that as opposed to just acknowledging what she did say and to say all right time out yeah scenes over that was disgusting i'm so sorry i clearly didn't mean that but she she was like still in character and still arguing and unraveling anyway angie goes on watch what happens live obviously get off this episode but sophia franklin is there who is promoting her book daddy issues of her trying to you know tell her side of the story of of of uh missing out on the color daddy which is so interesting i i feel like as a consumer of pop culture i want to read it i have no interest yeah nick if there is one person in this society of america to not feel sorry for in terms of missing out on a 60 million dollar deal it's sophia franklin and why do you feel that way i think there is a long history of her being an actual bully to people like this is a book about like this is why i got screwed over about like a dream of a lifetime like she made a and i just don't feel like we have a world filled of a bunch of people to like empathize for and have our grace and sympathy and and people we you know bad things have happened to i don't feel sorry i will say the decisions she's made i will say i think you're right and we could have seen maybe a redemption of sophia franklin on watch what happens live when angie confronts her about the question of sophia you said something on your podcast about suit man and that was like the origination the how it all started and angie's like yeah i'm actually like glad we get to meet because here i am a woman who's been married for 30 years and this little girl yeah little girl little girl who i could literally be her mother like says something about me and sophia's response was not like you're right i'm so sorry like you are you have been married for 30 years that was wrong of me to like throw you out of my life and i'm like i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry your name in the mix she was like well like i the guy was 17 years older than me i do have like daddy issues and so like yeah no thanks i have no interest reading a book about blaming her ex-boyfriend who she was an adult and took his advice and like i'm just not interested in her blaming everyone else for why she made some of the worst business decisions as an adult to ever be made and why she lost out on a chance of a lifetime and i just like i heard a different i heard a different side because i was like listening to some people do cut downs of like what they heard happen which this is why i'm interested so i feel like historically i've heard that she was trying to hold out for more money from barstool alex took the deal but then i heard that in the book she actually talks about how she was trying to hold out for more money then her and alex came to an understanding hey we're going to make this 500k throughout the rest of the year and then next year we'll do x y and z but alex went behind her back to make a deal and sofia they were represented by the same lawyer and then sofia went to their lawyer and was like hey like moving forward x y and z and then the lawyer was like well um i actually no longer represent alex i only represent you because it would be a conflict of interest and that's how she un like it kind of sounds like t like it sounds different from the story that i've historically heard what's different from what you heard what i heard was that sofia was like holding out for x y and z and then she was like and alex was presented an opportunity and took it um i guess it's similar but i don't know i guess i i guess i understood that sofia basically was like not willing to work with them at all where from what she's saying from what i understand is that sofia was like on the same page as alex they were like okay we're gonna band together we're gonna wait this out and then next year we'll go off on her own and then alex blindsided her like dropped the lawyer switch like so it so she even have the chance to make the bad business choice well her bad business choice was listening to suit man for a long time and so and again i might be wrong with some of my details because i can't say i'm a historian on this but like the the big part about this is that when sofia and alex started to call her daddy they did not own the ip barstool did they were hired as talent and it was their idea but because at the time sofia and alex were not like known entities and barstool was they signed a contract yeah it was like they were like they were like they were like it is the contract whatever yeah they obviously quickly created this massive show that like by anyone's like standards including barstool and dave portnoy was this like they were definitely undervalued but they signed a contract so at some point in their in their contract uh sofia was dating an hbo executive known as suit man right and and i'm sure in a lot of these cases because a lot of people are like yo like you are definitely like getting underpaid but like it was it was the contract whatever you know you can sit there and debate that and people have like fought against like you know nfl players hold out you know things like that saying i don't care what my contract says whatever and so they started negotiating hard which is basically like we're not going to show i don't care what a contract is we're not going to show up blah blah taking a lot of bad advice uh from from suit man obviously this created you know they stopped recording it became a whole thing uh somewhere in that right i think you know alex and sofia started negotiating with dave but keep in mind they didn't own the ip like so for them to leave the show they were going to have to leave to call her daddy name they're i think they had a whole new name you know already created because like they were their their rss fee which is like when you go and listen to call her daddy like all those subscribers they were going to lose all that all they were going to take is like their identity and to start all over right not the greatest decision they would have thrown a lot of things away you know that wasn't ideal to do you know but like they're getting a lot of bad advice from from people and then somewhere along the lines i think you know i don't you know that's where the she said she said comes in of what happened and i think that's where the she said she said comes in of what happened and i think that's where the she said she said comes in of what happened and i think that's where the she said she said comes in of what happened but dave like made an agreement with alex which is like and i think because he got tired of dealing with this outside suit man it was like who the fuck is this guy type of thing and why is he getting in the way with negotiating with people i work with you know and he for whatever reason maybe because he was so fed up with sofia and all that stuff was this like you sign this deal you do this for a year with barstool and i will give you the ip just gave it to her and that's when alex signed her 60 million dollar deal because then she owned the ip which she was just literally just a gift and it was a gift because i think he was so dave was so sick of sofia and all her all of her games and whatever anyways i'm sure there's a lot of pieces i'm missing here or there but the end of the day alex and sofia said we're gonna bet on ourselves and we're gonna go against this deal and at some point in the process i think alex was like this is not the best deal okay so suit guy might have like looking at what happened to sofia that's been together with sofia and they never budged it could have been great advice for both of them but it ended up switching how would it have been i mean first of all if they took man's advice they would have had to leave the i the the call her daddy name and rss feed they would have to literally start over and i'm sure like like sofia did she started sofia with an f and obviously where is sofia and f compared to call her daddy yeah it's a night and day difference they would have given up those two years of just massive show that yeah they would have definitely had a lot of people come over and follow them but they would that it would have lost so much value like listen alex and sofia i think we're friends but they're also business partners yeah and i think that there was cracks in like obviously the relationship you know there's there's a lot of things where it's just like you know alex i think alex is one who's always editing it always doing like some of the legwork she did like a lot of the marketing so obviously there's gonna be feelings of like who does what is it fair you know a lot of that bullshit right alex got like a pay raise by like 50k more from sofia but then never told sofia that was happening for like a year but like that's all the tea where i'm like it's actually interesting maybe so but what does that have to do with like again that has nothing to do with sofia made some very critical bad decisions in this process which is to listen to her boyfriend mostly i just think like to an extent like if they i don't know i don't know the lore so i'm like i don't know if they are the ones that were like we need to do something about it or if he was the one that was like we need to do something about it because of sofia and alex yeah so do something about what barstool making the money making the - We're getting $30 million off of us, but we're getting paid 100,000 a year. - Okay, yeah. would they have just stayed in that position had suit man not been like hey do you guys even realize that you're paying the salaries of 30 people at barstool that don't even work on your show everyone in the world knew that like they're not idiots they knew that they are obviously like blew up much faster and their contract was going to come up and they definitely would have been able to renegotiate you know and they can at that point decide how hard they want to negotiate they just they they really went for it and it honestly ended up working like listen depending it worked for alex but because like i think but i think she did i think she did do her friend dirty you know and that's why i think it's interesting because i'm like that's what the whole book is yeah it's the other side of like the empire of alex cooper is what has like made mainstream to oversimplify though but let's say you started a podcast with a friend yeah and this friend was as much of a business person was a friend and so much of your friendship was wrapped up in the fact that you guys built this show together yeah but like with any friendship that's wrapped up in a business situation like there's there there starts being feelings about like is this fair are we both doing the exact same yada yada yada and then at some point you had an opportunity you know like and someone came to you and gave you that deal that alex was able to take not to mention keep in mind this deal the deal that alex was given was at the on the heels of david being like i am so fed up with this other person out of spite i'm just going to reward you and keep in mind that you're making this you're making this decision you know yeah she's a friend but you have now a mental list of all like just the pain in the ass situations of how you felt like she almost ruined your your show and that she's kind of a pain in the ass and maybe kind of a bully and kind of this and kind of that but you also have all the stuff that came out didn't i mean in dave's book didn't dave just recently write a book too and he went on this press tour and he was like listen like they came to me and they said like we're gonna release a like false sexual harassment against you if you don't fucking crazy if you don't give us what we want allegedly if you don't give us what we want yeah i mean it's a messy situation with a lot of messy people all i am saying i'm not here to take sides i'm not saying i'm team alex or i don't feel bad yeah for sophia franklin okay and if this book is about read my book feel bad for me because i missed out on a deal of a lifetime she does not have my remorse yeah and sympathy there's a world full of people that i'm more focused on being like that sucks for that person yeah and not sophia franklin well you added context as well alex also took sophia's slogan unwell and made her company based off of it which is crazy that is crazy i feel like it was insult to injury and that's how and why was it sophia's because honestly all of the crazy stories that call her daddy was about was about like sophia's life like sophia's the one that was like getting arrested like sleeping at crazy strangers how like she's the one that brought the stories alex did the marketing is how i've understood that's how i understand it and that doesn't mean that it's right or wrong but you asked the question um you know what i mean like i'm not sure if it's right or wrong but i'm not sure if it's right or wrong if somebody presented you with this opportunity i think even if my friend was pissing me off and maybe i wanted to part ways with her i would still give her a cut and i wouldn't choose take her slogan and then make that my brand name you might but she's an amazing businesswoman and i can't say the same about myself when this all happens alex did a podcast this is years ago i did listen to it i've not read sophia's book but if you are i would be curious if you actually were to hear sophia's full story and then hear alex's story which is more believable i'd be willing to bet you would say alex's story and then hear alex's story which is more believable i'd be willing to really we should do it we should i'll report back i'll i'll listen to the podcast send me the link and then i'll read the book i think alex's cutthroat i don't think she i don't think could be wrong is a liar yeah that's fair i think sophia is more i don't know i think they i think alex has a empire she has to protect now and i think now she she i'm not i don't want to take sides i just don't i don't feel bad for sophia franklin i actually like don't want to fight for either i didn't listen to their podcast but no literally like i can't have either of your backs yeah why am i fighting this battle for you i don't see the book and go oh poor sophia oh god i just don't you know what i'm saying and i also don't say like i've heard all the rumors about alex and matt trying to like get their hands on the book before releases and like i don't feel bad for them that now they could be like getting blindsided by whatever is is written in this book right but i am glad angie got to call out sophia on watch what happens live i thought that was a good thing that was and i and i did not feel like sophia handled it best yeah that's where i feel like there hasn't been growth in the like let me take accountability for what i have said i'm with you on that that felt it felt very there was no and again honestly both of them they just got to learn to apologize because angie should have just said her apology in the episode so it was after sophia started her sophia with the f podcast and there was some clip where she like went after this girl in her high school in such a vicious way like you know we all accuse you know people of bullying online nowadays where it's just like all right calm down all right this was this was like in the most class i don't know and this was post fallout of caller daddy this was after you're supposed to be humbled by like the person who like screwed you over and then you she started like i don't know and it was just at least to alex's credit she took the call her daddy ip and changed it outside of what they were doing yeah and then when sophia started hers it was the same kind of like let's just like tell shitty stories about how we used to be shitty young people with like no you know i don't know i'd rather see evolution and at least with alex i feel like there's been at least some evolution yeah there definitely has been evolution oh all right well we won't be feeling bad or at least i won't be feeling bad for sophia nobody's picking sides here yeah no one's picking sides i don't feel bad for anyone nobody i don't feel bad for anybody everyone in this conversation still rich so true true one's just way way way way way richer way more rich yeah than the other one but i still don't feel bad uh but there are some people to feel bad for when it relates to how things ended on this season of love is blind uh two of those people mckayla and sarah we have tomorrow for an amazing episode of going deeper uh we also have wilney some of you feel bad some up next and then we'll get into talking about obviously the finale and the reunion following wilney then we have adam conover a very hilarious comedian many of you know him from adam ruins everything uh where he finds a particular topic a mainstream topic and poke some holes in the topic uh brings a lot of humor to it a lot of information as well he also has a new special uh big divorce energy he is a man who has got out of a 15-year relationship and now he's in his 40s and now he's uh starting life over and he's talking about and having some fun and we love those types of conversations so we said come on adam expose yourself in the vile files that's all coming up next but right now we have wilney from love is blind and she is coming up now wilney welcome to the show hello hello how are you i'm good i'm good i um it's been a stressful last year and a half i was gonna say a few weeks yeah no i imagine i imagine none more i imagine a little stressful than this past weekend uh with the the finale and the reunion dropping so i guess our how are you decompressing now that the show it's all in the can we're done it's it's been aired how are you feeling about everything honestly i i'm a lot more surprised about how i'm coming across i was coming across and um i completely i expected uh thinking about it like just makes me like a little like jittery and angry honestly um so not the best experience i feel like the towards when with the reunion and the finale um that was probably this has probably been my best week so far what's been making you like the most frustrated yeah i think it's just how one dimensional i look on tv i feel like the editing just didn't do me any favors at all i it just started rough and everyone had their perceptions and they kind of like ran with it i disagree i felt i did not feel that way about you at all i felt like and maybe i just am a person who sees you and i feel like i'm a person who sees you and i feel like i'm a person who sees you and i feel your type of humor and maybe there's a lot of people who don't and nick says all the time like sarcasm is just like not cut for reality tv there's there's just when you strip away the context of sarcasm it just doesn't land well um but that's my kind of humor so i could spot it from a mile away and i yeah i have to i have to disagree with you i don't feel like you came across one dimensional at all but i'm sorry i don't know you came across from one dimensional but i appreciate how you feel because i think most people in your shoes it's it's common to feel that way because the yeah yeah editors do oversimplify you guys yeah and they're running with narratives and storylines and then you have this very personal experience right that you did for two months and you have so many intense memories and to watch it back and have it be stripped down into something that's very different than you remember is very hard to digest right right and that's exactly how i felt um and the digestion of it all i was just kind of like wait wait i'm like i guess i am a little weird i guess it's fine honestly everyone's weird if everyone was filmed absolutely and and cut down to a little edit every everyone's weird so you're in good company here i just felt so raw right like i i expressed my emotions so like purely often and i went in there and i did that and then it kind of had me thinking like should i have not should i had been more you know corporate like put together well me but i was just very like - Yeah, no, I totally relate to exactly how you feel. I am curious, though, outside of all that, how did you feel like your relationship with Wilson was portrayed? Like, do you remember it differently in terms of why you guys worked and didn't work? It's a great question. It really didn't show why we worked, right? Like, we really didn't get much of why he proposed. It really showed just me, you know, pouncing on him, but really did kind of like showcase why we kind of like thought we were going to get married or fell in love with each other. So that was that was I can't really answer that because I didn't get anything out of it. But also with the ending, I think so. I think that those were conversations that we had throughout and we just couldn't find a common. And like we couldn't we couldn't find a common resolution for it. From your perspective, what was your biggest hurdle that you weren't getting from Wilson that stopped you from saying yes or thinking this could be it? It doesn't show often, but one of the things that I would say is I don't want a roommate, right? I if I wanted a roommate, I would go get one. And so I talked a lot about when we're at home. Kind of like doing like the sweet things and like the I want to say the affection piece of it. We talked about it in the pods. He talked about how he is very nonchalant. And I was like, fuck, no. He talked about, you know, PDA is really hard for him. And this is PDA to an extreme. So I feel like that would have been my my deal breaker for sure. The physical effect. Not physical. But affection part of it. Yeah, that makes sense. So was it not just on camera? You were struggling with the affection. It was also when cameras were down. You still felt like you weren't getting what you needed. Yeah. And it would be little things like like when we're cooking dinner, kind of like coming up, like giving me like random like just kind of like showing me that like I you're you're like you want to be here. And he would say it and we would talk about it and it would feel. Good, like it would feel good to talk about it and resolve it. But it just didn't really get to where I personally needed to be. At the reunion, he said your entitlement attitude turned him off, which personally I thought was an insane, crazy word to use. What was your kind of reaction to that? Yeah, he said it a couple of times. And after like the third time, I was like, wait, stop. I think I'm having a hard time with the labels. Right. And it feels like whether he's the intention is to continuously put these labels on me. It feels like that's what's happening or had happened. So I didn't appreciate that at all. I feel like. Not I feel I work really hard for everything that I have. Right. I am an immigrant. I moved here when I was six years old. I didn't have a blueprint. Like I didn't have like my parents to be able to say, well, I mean, this is how you apply to college. This is how you get financial aid. This is the career that you need to go to. This is how you do a job application. This is how you bring up your credit score. I didn't have that. I had to learn all of that on my own. And I'm very happy that I can do all that. But I'm not going to be in a relationship with somebody in a partnership with somebody and have to feel like I'm independent. That makes you do all that by yourself. Yeah. The word entitled must be jarring. Yeah, absolutely. Your background. Yeah. Like. Sorry. It's so fresh. It's only been a couple of weeks. Yeah, it is very fresh. And I just like I think all of us in this room have been on the receiving end of scrutiny and miss and feeling misunderstood. And I think that will get better. Just so you know. Yeah. Yeah. I want you to know it will get better because I can tell we can feel it that it is very fresh. And I think you're handling it really well. Have you got a chance to speak with Wilson at all post reunion or since the show wrapped or you guys went your separate ways. We've spoken. We haven't really dived deep on the any thing important. It's like, OK, I see. You're so you haven't really dove in because I'm curious just if well, since you didn't have the conversation, I guess I would just ask you to guess. But like, you know, because so much about this show is figuring out how people communicate. Are they able to, like, get out what they're hoping to express and be heard the way they want to be heard? And yada, yada, yada. What where do you feel like you guys went wrong in terms of here? You have this obviously incredible background. It's a it's it's literally the American tale of, like, overcoming adversity and figuring it out and having so much to be proud of. And then you meet this guy. Wilson seems a really nice guy. And you're kind of like, listen, this is what you know, if I'm going to get married, this is what I want in a marriage is I want to be taken care of. Yada, yada, yada. And then here he's just like, yo, I don't want an entitled person. Yeah. And. Obviously, it just like that's that wasn't your guys's goal. And as you reflect back, how do you feel like you guys as a couple kind of went wrong in terms of not being able to communicate that aspect of of how you what you guys wanted? I think we're both very stubborn. We're both very stubborn people. And we kind of have what our expectations for what we want our lives to look like. And sometimes. I also like to track back. This is the first time that I've ever lived with somebody other than my family. And this was the first time that he's ever lived with a significant other. So we were trying to in real time kind of like figure that out. How does that look like to live with somebody else that you're in love with? It's not a sleepover. They stay. Don't get to leave. But so we're trying to figure that out. But we both have our wants and our needs in our relationship. And I don't think either of them are wrong. It just didn't it just didn't line up. Essentially, you said you you did a lot of things for Wilson that he didn't notice. What were some of those things that he didn't fully appreciate? It's kind of implied on the show. Wilson works from home. I go into my job every day. And so things like he wakes up. Obviously, I'm not there. He has to eat. Right. So he'll make himself breakfast. But I'm the one going food shopping. So, like, he's not he didn't go food shopping. And in our relationship, we have days off. We film most of the time, but we have a couple of days off during the week. I go food shopping. I buy him what he needs for breakfast. I buy him what he needs for lunch. Then I go home and I cook. Most of those Mondays, as Aneha said, he went to go play basketball with Cam, which I'm completely down for. We're spending a lot of time together, right? If you need that minute to step, go and hang out with your friends and, like, debrief and have that time, by all means, do that. But to not be there and then to kind of, like, say that I'm not doing these things is unfair. And it's very nitpicky. We kind of shared responsibilities around, like, washing dishes and stuff. So as immigrants, and I don't know if this is all immigrants, but we don't use dishwashers, neither of us. So, like, when we're cooking, we're cleaning throughout the day. We'll wash dishes. We're working together. But I do think there's an aspect of him wanting me to take more charge in the housework that I couldn't do because I was not home. So if I'm not home, I physically cannot do the things that you're asking me to do. You're also not the one making the mess. And I'm also not the one making the mess. And there was no winning for me. I talked about, let's have, like, a chart, like a cleaning chart. And he's like, no. And I do think a cleaning chart is stupid. But for now, as we're figuring it out, like, this is for what I need to do. So then you don't feel the need to do it. But I think for him, he just felt it wasn't enough. I don't think any amount of cleaning or cooking I would have done would have been enough unless I woke up in the morning, made him breakfast before I went to work. Or on my day off, I was like, oh, I'm up. Let me go make breakfast for my fiance. I think that's what he wanted. And that's not what I was willing to do for the rest of my life. So I couldn't give him that now and fake it. And then he's trapped with me. And he's like, what the fuck's my breakfast on this Saturday morning? I'm like, dude, I'm tired. Yeah. Honestly, it's better you didn't. You didn't fake it. Yeah. You know, what did he do for you that would have been the equivalent of that? I didn't really ask for much. I don't. I couldn't. I don't know. I couldn't tell you. I he did fold my laundry a couple of times. Like I did laundry one day and I was like, oh, I text him. And I said, I love you. That's my I forgot to put my laundry in the dryer. Can you put in the dryer for me? And he like put in a dryer and then fold it up. So he would do he would also do little things, too. It was. I do think it was nitpicking. I don't know. Do you feel like you both like you do your perspective because he's saying it wasn't. But do you feel like you both contributed equally to the chores financially in the household? Things like that? Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, financially. It was tough because we we did live in the apartments that how do you figure? Yeah, there are times where I think there's like one time that he like Venmo me. or cash app me for groceries um there are times where he's like ordering something he's like hey do you need anything like we i it was it was very like i thought it was closer to 50 50 than he felt like it was this question for wilney and suzy well i don't know your relationship status now i know suzy you are single yeah in the year 2026 how do people figure out 50 50 or yeah right because there's like this element of like all right everyone's working now right everyone's making money it's we're a more progressive society you know and so when you kind of go out like if you're just dating you it's like 50 50 you share but at the same time even the most progressive people have a tendency of being like i mean yeah sure i want it to be equal but i still want to find someone a lot of women will say this like i want someone who can like can take care of me right have that and as a guy you're like i still want to like take care of my yeah you know person so how do you all figure that out right while you're dating and figure out the you know the nuance of someone who can bring the energy of that they want to take care of you without you know in a more traditional like 1955 sort of way yeah where they did that by just being like i'm just going to pay for everything or you know what i'm saying like how do you all do that because when you're when we're talking about you and wilson it's so nuanced in terms of like and everyone brings their own bias which is why i wanted to ask him like from your perspective was it 50 50 because i don't know if you're a person who's like i don't know if you're a person i don't think that has to be okay split down the middle the check the groceries the cost are you cooking the same amount of meals but sometimes there's emotional labor in a relationship that counts for a lot and i think that men and women sometimes weigh that differently and like i've run into that with some of my past relationships as well and i and i feel similarly where i'm like i know i contribute pretty much 50 50 to most of my relationships but i really appreciate when a woman wants to provide or wants to buy the meal or pick up the tab like that goes a long way and i know i'm going to contribute elsewhere and in the you know it's not that the expectation is that they pay my way or something but it's gentlemanly and it's like courting and yeah do you ladies feel like men have embraced this 50 50 idea to like have they gone too far i think so i think so it comes back to right going on the show you're hoping to get married and you're hoping to have a family very early on about wanting children and when you think about women and their bodies and they go through pregnancy and postpartum and breastfeeding it's never 50 50 exactly and most families that i know the women is planning the doctor's appointments doing the registration for school summer camps all of those lie on the women so i feel like when we are looking for a husband like not for fun like we're not just this isn't fun this is it is it's supposed to be fun but you're looking for a husband you're looking for somebody that can take care of your family and how can i know you can take care of my children if you're having a hard time taking care of me and so that's why it comes off as like i'm spoiled but i'm like can you take care of our children yeah and also we were talking about like how you approach a conversation with people a few weeks ago and natalie made a joke about like you're like oh sometimes you just have to like make it funny like you're like oh if somebody's breath is stinky you have to be like oh rotten tooth and it was and and it's like taking it to the extreme where i feel like that's kind of what you were doing with the princess treatment where you're not it's really uncomfortable to say in a harsh tone or to be like hey like my expectation is x y and z or you could just make it a joke yeah and like pick up pick up my cues you know like hey i need more i need you to be more of a gentleman and i think you were i think you were trying to do it in a funny way i would i would agree i think it's a big red flag for the early on in a relationship i don't know what the dynamic was of his family but this pointing to like oh my mom also had to do so much and she provided the same way my dad did and and sometimes you are left with no choice but to do that and i understand that and like it's very applaudable but if you both are contributing and if you both are going into the relationship knowing the emotional labor of a woman and that you're going to have children and that that kind of comes with it i think it's i think it's fair but that's where men and women i think tend to weigh it differently yeah i just think yeah i think it's a red flag of if you date a guy who's like really excited about how things have shifted in relationship dynamics in a way that have given them like more things to complain about and and or i don't know anyways i know you have to get going wilney but we do have one more final question and it relates to uh the reunion when it was revealed that sarah had some reluctance of saying yes before she said yes to i believe the night before the wedding can you give any insight into what that conversation was like and just from your perspective what was sarah's mindset and what were you saying to her yeah i mean we were all going through it we were it was me and sarah and we were it was it was a very 50 50 conversation no it was just a lot of like we know we we know we love these men right but can we do this forever and and sarah you know you know you know you know you know you know you sarah sarah's very smart very sweet very smart and really did love john and and she noticed the a lot of the red flags right um at the time and she was just she was hopeful right she fell in love with the potential of the man that she saw that he could be um and ignored a lot of the of the red flags i personally aneja and i agreed that we both were hoping that she'd say no but at the end of the day i feel like if she had said no i wonder if she you know second guess if she made the right decision so i think even though it was even though it was a shitty fucking marriage i think for her it was i i followed my heart and um i'm learning from this and you know i'm gonna grow and be better and my next man would never what is your opinion of john i respect john i respect everyone but my respect for john is based on my love for sarah wow that says a lot about sarah what did you think of wilson saying scott was corny as hell for talking to sarah the way he did no they didn't even show how the audience erupted everyone was like it was it was very bostonian when scott spoke everyone was a lot of fuck yous um all around yeah i i i'm i'm happy that he did he like that's what we should be doing right um as men i'm not a man but that's what everyone should be doing happy that he um he was he was able to do that for her why do you think no one stood up to rob when he was being as scary as he was yeah no one stood up to rob because it wasn't the first time that this has happened and maybe in a smaller scope and in mexico when we had the group meetups he he has a big personality and after a while he gets a little raw um we're not we weren't you kind of look back nobody that was engaged was surprised right all of the people who the pod squad were just kind of like gasp and we were just kind of like oh like i'm in the back talking because he he has a big personality and he sometimes lashes out mckayla knew that side of him i i it's it's unfortunate that it happened the way that it did and it's really sad and nobody deserves it but nobody was kind of it wasn't shocking to us that he ended up being that upset gotcha all right that makes sense yeah uh well well knee thanks for taking the time thank you try not to beat yourself up it's uh it's what you went through it's uh it was a whirlwind but yeah you're not gonna i spent a lot of time just just between you spent a lot of time trying to prove every single person wrong that i felt like they had a different perception of who i was and that was just a ton of wasted energy you know a lot of people out there who love you yes we're big fans of you and if nothing else it's like this was just an incredible experience you had that you will always have and always cherish and i would i wouldn't waste a lot of energy energy worrying about people who've never met you who have who have an incorrect perception of who you really are yeah i and i hope i get there i think right now i'm in the thick of things i'm still like but yeah thank you for that you were enjoying to watch and uh you obviously are a lovely person and it was in in these few short minutes of of speaking with you you there was clearly a lot more than the lady who had a her face on a blanket which is beautiful by the way that's really funny because i was mortified that that's in my guest room and my when she was 11 was still shopping and for christmas she was like this is what i'm gonna get you and it's my um grad school graduation so it's super cute but I'm just kind of like, nobody's going to understand. They're going to think I'm so selfish. Your niece kind of bullied you, for sure. No, she did. She played me. Well, you've never looked better. You looked amazing at the reunion, by the way. And you looked amazing on a blanket. And not a lot of people can say that. It was a great picture. Well, thank you so much. You're the best. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. I feel for her. You can tell it's like, you know. I know. It's taking a while. Well, because Wilson, he has this kind of very chill, gentle energy, which. which reads well. And then, you know, yeah, she has some jokes and some kind of big energy in terms of, like, you know. And so, yeah, the edit just ran with that. Yeah. And then to top it all off, I mean, the blanket, and you find out that he's, like, played a joke on her. I know. And it played right into the narrative. And you know, like, when she walked into her apartment and saw that, she was, like, sick to her stomach. Sick, because, I mean, Wilson told us that she, like, had it, you know, professionally cleaned or someone had gone to clean it before they went there. Which makes so much sense, and it's crazy that no one else on that fucking show does that. I know. Yeah, she was actually brilliant for that. Spend a couple hundred bucks, have someone clean your room. John should have done that. Truly. Truly. But, like, you know she saw that and was like, No, stop. Let me take it. Yeah, you can tell it's affecting her. I don't know. I just think nobody is two-dimensional as they seem. On a TV show, every interview, even Stu. When we had Stu on. Even Stu. You appreciate them so much more when you get to talk to them and you get to, like, they're unedited. You know, it's just like, this is who they really are and show up as. Yeah. No, it's crazy. I mean, but speaking of reunion. Speaking of reunion. How are Stu and Jax the most normal? Literally. I'm rooting for them. And I thought, I mean, like, I'm shipping it. The fact that she still, she kept the ring. She made it a pinky ring. Kind of cute. And he's like, she's like, I wear it every day. And he's like, yeah, you better, baby. Yeah, like, they're, I do, I'm rooting for their relationship. And when he sat down, she's like, he's hot. She said it to the girl next to her. I was like. They both looked good. They looked good. I think there's potential there. I think there's legs there. Yeah. I think it could take three years. Right. You know, she dates a lot of, like, really bad guys. Yeah. And then she's like, you know what? God, I should just always. Stu's always been there for me. It was always you. Yeah. Well, obviously, we'll get into the Sarah and John tomorrow on Tomorrow's Going Deep. We have Sarah and Michaela. I am curious. There were, like, two villains, right? Rob and John. Yeah. And, like, we knew Rob was. Who's worse. So that's. I felt like Rob got, like, kind of off the hook, so to speak. It did feel weird when we were talking about all of it. And Rob is like, yeah, you know, I had. I think Nick might have asked him, like, what have you done since? Yeah. What work have you done? And he was like, oh, you know, I had 50 days or so where I didn't go out. And I and I got into therapy. And he's like, I have to applaud you, man. That's just like. Yeah. That's really great. Anyway, you self-isolated for a bunch of days. And then I like a therapy, one or two therapy sessions. Like, I mean, I guess. That doesn't feel like change. But can you, like, get into, like, deeper about how you've changed and what you noticed was wrong? Yeah. How about that friend group? Have you stopped hanging out with those guys? Have they gotten into any therapy? Do you regret maybe not standing up for your girl and letting your guys, like, pounce on her? I see. I don't know if he needs to leave the friend group, so to speak, because, again. He needs to have some tough, tough conversations with his friends. Sure. I think there's better questions about, like, hey, listen, I'm not here to tell you how to be with the boys, so to speak. But, like, that's the biggest problem we had is when his friends started acting out. Instead of, like, defending his lady, he defended his friends. Yeah. And he got, like, really weird about that aspect. And then cornered her in front of them. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I think, yeah, I agree. It's hard. These are his boys. They've been friends forever. They're probably, he's probably not going to not be friends with them. They all have a lot of growing up to do. I'm curious their relationship status. Do they have girlfriends? Do they have wives? How do they feel about it? Because, yeah, I think we can safely say Rob's not going to end up. with anyone until he is able to have a healthier, more adult relationship with the boys. Right. Exactly. Because he still, like, acts like he's one of the boys. Like, it's his brother. And it's like if you're still allowing your boys to disrespect your fiance. If it's still bros before, you know, like, it's that energy. Because he's bringing that energy. For sure. Yeah. I do think he was let off the hook. I will say I know this stuff about his dad probably did impact him. Obviously, everyone grieves differently. There's, like, you know, a lot of things going on. But the stuff with his boys. And it's also like you throughout the whole show, you were worried about getting canceled. Yes. And it's like. For a type of behavior that you demonstrated while saying you were worried about being canceled. Yeah. It's like now you're, like, going on this TV show and now you're worried about getting canceled. And you're telling your fiance, hey, we're going out with everyone tonight. Squeeze my hand if I get too much. Right. The fact that you have the awareness to tell your fiance that is, like. Like, you're aware that this behavior is what it is. But not the awareness when your hand gets squeezed to realize this is the moment we're in. Right. He just, like, acts out even more. Which, like, it's. So it tells you he only has the awareness of his temper after the moment has passed. After he's calmed down. After it's taken him. No, I don't even think after. I think he has the awareness before. And I think he has the awareness of, like, it could get bad. But after we're, like, you know, clearly a lot of people have been, like, yo, you can't. You know what I'm saying? He knows he does. But it's not in the moment where you're being, like, hey, you're doing it. Because then he's, like, he's elevated. He's acting out. It's, like, maybe three days later he was, like, then he apologizes again for that other. But it's, like, even with that situation, it's, like, he thought the whole reason Michaela was upset is because he had a conversation with Diana. And, like, he continued that narrative. And it's, like, no, no, no. That's not. But do we think he actually thought that? Or do you think he was just placing blame on that? The way to, like, scapegoat himself. Now she's mad about Diana. And really he knew, like, oh, I just disrupted everything. But, like, I'm going to trick everyone into thinking that she's jealous and crazy. I don't know. I feel like he honestly. I don't think that night in that moment he knew what he was doing. Really? I think he, like, snarkishly said, check in with my girl if I can go talk to you, whatever. Michaela says, yeah, it's fine. Go talk. I don't care. And then he continued. Continues with the behavior afterwards. She gets so upset. She goes to the bathroom. He's like, oh, my God. It's because of Diana. Like, you told me I could go talk to her. Like, come on. And I think that's what he tries to make it about. Not realizing that he has the behavior that he has. I think throughout the pods, I don't know, maybe right after the pods, I think he just started spiraling and realizing this is this is more than I can handle. And he started getting his head about his edit as often people do. Right. And then he sits down with his boys. And his boys are his boys. And he knows how they can come across. And I think he just, like, started freaking out about how this is all going to look. And in that moment, while he's drinking, he's just like, yeah, he's snowballed. And then did the thing where, yeah, he's I think he was self-sabotaging. Call it what you want. Just yeah. Just trying to make everyone else look bad. Looking to pick a fight. I think he just snowballed in that moment because he just realizes this this whole moment, this whole show was more than he. All of that. To be like dumbed down to a like, well, good. Yeah. I didn't talk to anyone for 30 days and I got some therapy. Congratulations, man. Yeah. Who got the guy, the guy from the audience that she dated after? What is his name? Matt, the beekeeper. Beekeeper. Mr. Beekeeper. I feel like he got a lot of heat. I mean, he did seem weird. We do get a lot of answers from Michaela tomorrow. We do get a lot of answers. That exchange was really strange. And you could tell that the whole time she's like, wait, she's like so confused. She's so caught off guard. Her being like. I told you I loved you. And to be transparent, I was on mushrooms. And you knew that. Been there, done that. Different kind of love. Peace and love. It is a different kind of love, baby. Rob's behavior, I thought, was so like just watching. It was just like, you know, these are the type of guy, you know, when we talk about bad guys out there, I'm like, these are the guys who like traumatize 50 women and make the rest of us look fucking terrible. Only for him to feel like he got off. And then, John, I was this more like, I think throughout the season. He kind of has this kind of sad boy thing. And he's, you know, just like, I don't know, maybe he's imperfect, but he's learning type of thing where he just kind of felt like he's this like, I watch it like he's a weak guy. I think after talking to Sarah Michaela, my perspective has changed. Do you think he's manipulative? Is that what it is? Well, you should just listen to the episode. I'm dying. I'm dying to hear it. But a lot is revealed. But I did think it was interesting. Think about when we're watching the new union. Right. And the clearly, clearly. They had to pull it out of Sarah and John. Right. Yeah. But it was John who offered the text message information. He's like, well, there was a text. And I'm thinking this is the version he's OK with because he's the one who offered it. You know, like, so I don't feel like we're watching it. He was like, OK, this is this is the information he is comfortable with putting out there. How how how actual bad is it? Because after talking to Wilney, after talking even and we got a lot of information from Michaela and Sarah, but you could still tell. She's protecting him. There's she's there's some stuff she's not. She she doesn't want to get out and she's still protecting him. And I feel like the more we were pulling on that thread, the more you're like, oh, my God. As a human, I really respect Sarah. Yeah. As a consumer of reality TV, I want her to tell me everything and I want her to share it on the reunion. But I understand her wanting to protect him as a human. She loved this person. She wanted it to work with him. And when you go on reality TV, when you put yourself out there, things follow you forever totally and I think it's also hard because the show's been out they've seen the response they're at the end of the day all normal people and I think seeing like how cruel the internet can be I don't think for normal kind people like Sarah is it makes them want to go on the reunion and be extra messy and like get because they know justice is served yeah they're going to be ripped to shreds yeah even with the little information we have and it's going to be really hard for him to meet somebody who is a good quality person that is going to take him serious I and like his dad speaking out like that that was rough it was really sad I like felt for his dad because you know like and as a mom yeah as a mom I'm like I yeah will you know but and maybe and he did not say the right thing he didn't of course but it's like you could see him just wanting to protect his son and even John being like dad I know I know what you're trying to do but like please just stop and I I give his dad more grace than I give a fucking Scott guy like what the hell yeah excuse me Scott you're the one who was like he thinks women he of like baby deer what did he say in the pods about women being baby deer I don't know but he's the one who's the one who thinks astrology is the devil's satanic yeah I mean like this guy strange well you go out three times a week let's talk about it that it's like yeah we're talking about cheating yeah it's different he's different it's different and for him to first of all Sarah was being so like PC with John protecting him protecting and protecting protecting her family's being sweet everyone's being sweet and then this guy comes in and tries to throw shade at her it's like what is wrong with you she's been a class act and she could have come out and yeah yes definitely 100 this is the Scott quote I have no problem with my wife working now I don't know if I want my wife bartending having a bunch of dudes trying to hit on her all night it's like allowing lines just getting around like a freaking baby deer oh yes that was it disgusting you're sick yeah yeah that's not the person I want speaking up for me also is that John's friend because why was he seated by his dad he was also in the pods yeah so I guess they're it's giving a lot of red flags I also think that Sarah I love her like I love her love her love her but I'm like there's no shame in saying no at the altar and dating somebody in real life you know Wilney saying that oh I think Sarah like saw it through because she would have had questions you can still date that person you don't have to say yes I think she should have trusted her gut I think her gut could have protected her also in the same vein of this was the information John was okay with this is a man who went on one of the biggest reality TV shows in the world got married the only who got married on that show and then has to like be low-key for a year and in this season of being low-key he hired an escort no no he tried and then found out that she was gonna cost money and he was like you know what he hired a stripper and then tried to escalate it to Blake being like did y'all fuck and a someone who is well there's more information you'll find out tomorrow but he he moved in a way that it was so reckless given the situation he put himself in it's like how how how bad five years from now yeah because if he's willing to do this what like there's there's no limit to what he's willing to do if he was like you know what I'm saying I do and I think this brings me back to the question which I I'm saying dangerous not in an actual I'm not like alluding to something crazy but like which guy's more dangerous a Rob or a John I kind of think a John because a Rob you can spot it up front and you can run true a John is somebody that does not wear their intentions on their sleeve the the robs are scary because it feels like if you're in the wrong room with him at the very wrong time it can get literally physically dangerous fast because he looks potentially violent yeah and then the Johns the world can like ruin your life for years and they can steal years away from your life because they play the victim so well and they're good at like bringing you down along with them and get you know doing the whole gas lighting thing and yada yada but they're also simultaneously what's dangerous really dangerous about someone like John is he's so good at saying he's sorry right even the whole like dad you know I can't you know and he just plays the sad voice so well and then with someone like Sarah you're just like you you know if you have any type of fix it fixer energy yeah they can they they will steal years from your life and that in its own way is dangerous but I will say you can protect yourself from the Johns better than you can the robs if you're willing to do the work and learn from your own mistakes that's true who do we feel like thought the the cam dad jokes was like what's up with that I was fast forwarding I would hit enough I would skip to twice because it was on 10 seconds enough with the gimmicks yeah and none of them not one I don't know who wrote them were funny yeah I didn't need that and it's just like it's taking it they're like and here let's like relieve some tension don't yeah and why dad why dad jokes that's his thing that was his thing on yeah it was a camp thing remember in the pods he would say dad jokes and Anaheim did not think they were funny speaking of I saw a clip of cam in the pods do you remember just like how much life that guy had remember when they had the headphones on and he was like dancing and he was singing and he was singing and he was singing and and he was cracking all the jokes. That's right. He was like, aren't you dancing? And I'm dancing. Why aren't you dancing? He had so much energy. He was so full. And then it was like the second. The earring comment. It's like, is it Neha? The second. She was like, change ya. You gotta change everything about. He shut down. It was like, wow, I picked the wrong person. Do we think because she was so high energy, it maybe like made him feel the need to balance the relationship a little bit? Or what do we think? I don't know. I feel like maybe he just felt shut down. Yeah, I think, I don't know how women relate to this. I don't know. But I think if a guy finds himself stuck or feels stuck with the wrong person, I think their go-to is to just kind of shut down. That is a common thing. And the way. I get that. She explained that whole post-wedding. Oh, yeah. And first, the way they edited it was, truly. That's really how we all were feeling. But it's one of those where it's like, was it Tuesday or was it Wednesday? Well, it had to have been Tuesday because if it was Wednesday, then it would have been at five. And if it was five o'clock, then it would have been at Tuesday. And it's like, we actually don't give a fuck. Yeah. What happened at the hotel? Did he come or no? It's like, well, he was supposed to. I got there at three and so I was waiting on him. And I'm like, oh my God, it was a no show. He didn't show up. And it's like, no, he did get there. He just played basketball. He just was late. I don't care. Yeah. It's poor Neha. And I think the men shut down too because it's like, all right, I'm probably not going to win this breakup in the court of public opinion or like in real life, your friends. So what's the thing I'm comfortable being hated for the least? By literally like, okay, by doing nothing. All right, I'll, fine. You know what? You can get mad at me for being a waste of space or doing nothing or shutting down or not participating in conversations. You're not going to get me on raising my voice, getting angry, being a jerk. You're not going to get me on that. So I will just shut down. And that's what she said. She was even at the altar. She was like, can you share your feelings? And she was like, yes, please. I'd like to hear. He never talked. You know what? You can tell me I didn't show up. I will take that to the grave. And so that way, when I talk to my next employer slash girlfriend, and they're like, well, how'd you lose that last? Why did it go wrong? You could be like, well, it just wasn't the right fit. Wasn't the right fit. And you know what? It really wasn't. And I'm glad that they did ask him, would you have said yes? And he said, probably not. Because I think he played into like sad boy a little bit. Which is hell no. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I think he should have broken things off with her way before then. And I was so confused by them, the whole experience, because I was like, do you really like her? Because, and I mean this with love for her. I think she's a very interesting and fascinating like character on TV, but she would drive me nuts. She would drive me nuts. And I think I like, I've been with people who just like suck the energy out of me. And I'm like, I know my character, like, I'm not going to say the same thing. I'm not going to snap on you. I'm not going to like, I'm going to just sit here and breathe. And then I'm going to go get a hotel tonight to get away from you. Like, I've literally done that from people where I'm like, I have to get away. But I also don't think she liked him. Yeah, I don't think so. That's why I'm like, I think they just shouldn't have gone to the altar. Not the way he showed up. But I think my favorite part when she was like, the thing I love about you most, Cam, is that you don't want to change me. Oh yeah, the altar. Yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, for sure. Yeah. Not yet. Still fiance. Still fiance. He's going down the aisle. I know. We said we don't. And his family's there. Not all of her family. His family. I'm like, girl, not the audience. The whole season, your family, like, listen, I don't, I don't fault any family who's like, you know, listen, you do your crazy thing, kid. But yeah. Yeah. Her family doesn't show up. And then, but his family was willing to. And she made such a mockery. She made such a mockery of that whole. No, her mom was there. Her mom was at the wedding. Her mom showed. Was she? Oh. I thought it was just the sister. I thought her sister. Oh, no, her mom came to the reunion. Yeah, her mom came to the reunion. Her mom came to the reunion and did not, chose to not be miked. Yeah. You know what, though? I will say, I had a couple of thoughts. when when they showed them going back and like she's all alone up until like when her friends come and then he's surrounded by his family and I had this thought where I was like you know what this is actually really sad for her like I can't imagine a world even if my parents didn't support something I'm doing they would still show up for me and I it just made me really sad for her because I'm like maybe she hasn't had the handholding that a lot of us have had and like for her to behave in certain ways that I didn't really like or agree with I'm like maybe like she said she's never talked to her parents about boys before until this experience and I'm like my mom has helped me a lot with relationships and and sometimes you need people like that in your life so it kind of made me it just made me really sad for her and then I actually felt really happy that she got to speak about her family dynamics because I think there is a cultural piece there that you know she was like a lot of people online want to say my family doesn't support me or they don't love me or whatever and she's like my family loves me so much but they show it differently so I'm glad she had her moment to share that I could tell it was very painful for her but it from you know the dynamics that I have from my family and what I would want it made me sad to see her go back to that room alone and just kind of like her happy-go-lucky self I don't know if it's happy-go-lucky but like overly energetic but also it's really awkward and as an audience you're just sitting there and it's like wow you're sitting there all alone and like probably just continuing to fill the space with your words because you're uncomfortable in silence I think the idea of showing up for her partner is easier for the you know because I think you know especially these shows it's it's your first thought is am I getting what I need and what I want out of this yeah and I think she did a lot of self-sacrificing for the relationship with cam as she pointed out but I think she was again more aware of her efforts you know what I'm saying because even when you it's because it's your stuff and you're like well I'm doing all this yeah it's it's so I know Michaela and Sarah Michaela and Sarah tomorrow it's uh for a jam jam packed episode up next we have Adam Conover from you know him from Adam ruins everything mostly or you know he's ruined a lot of things like marriage and mattresses uh very funny comedian he has a new special called a big divorce energy uh he recently went through a long-term breakup and he talks a lot about it and we love someone who is really just vulnerable about exposing all the things about their uh trauma and uh and middle age of all of all places and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and I think it's a great show and so he is with us to talk about his experience his new special and that is all up next Adam welcome to the show hey thank you so much for having me thanks for coming man I'm thrilled to be here this is the best decor I've ever seen in a podcast is it perhaps the table the coffee table is great I'm loving the hanging it's sort of naguchi-esque I love it's very naguchi-esque in here look at the uh that's that's sort of uh first wheel the first wheel lamp always bothered me because when you watch it on screen it just looks like it's floating that's nice yeah I've always been team lamp he's hated it so it looks like a video game charm you got a boot clay chair over there clay chairs wow you really have you really know your I've gotten into the past couple years I've gotten into interior decorating a little bit I've learned some phrases yeah is that the benefits of being a single man a hundred percent yeah I I mean we can get into it but yeah I spent the 15 years of my life in the studio and I've been in the studio for 15 years in a relationship never buying a single piece of furniture and happy to not you know my ex was a uh a cartoonist she's an artist she's picking everything and now I'm I'm buying my own stuff and learning words and figuring out what I like it's really fun wow are you actually having fun with it yeah I am have you ever had moments have been like she would have done better or no there have been a couple moments where because I really loved her taste I was like I'm so grateful to live in a house that you made it's so beautiful and then there are a couple times I picked something where I was like I chose a better couch you know do you what do you feel like you could have you could do better than me and I'm not saying this to be nice not much yeah yeah well when I I we started day I bought my first house right before we became exclusive and then like any single man boy oh sure right with a little bit of a disposable income at the time he bought his house just went to restoration hardware uh-huh and bought everything had the little design girl there be like oh my god I'm gonna buy a house I'm gonna buy a house I'm gonna this is this this flows this earth you know and I thought it was all super cool and perfect and how could you want anything else and then she came in and and she's like what the fuck are these chairs with wheels there's so much actually one of the the like buffet table that he got it's now used as toy it's like the toy cabinet for our two-year-old daughter and the one of the doors the hinges just fell off and we can totally replace it just for the week only just because it was well now it's Monday and it still does he's like just for the weekend well you I will someone will I don't know if it'll be me we'll have to reach out to restoration hardware and say hey I need a new hinge oh yeah they might even come out and replace it for you that was like gonna be our you know yeah now he thinks we should just replace the whole thing that's what I would do I can't weigh in on this I've don't I've doesn't I don't know the brand that well restoration hardware is this a hinge they have problems with hinges I don't know this particular one bro oh it's lasted a while right I mean five years okay well yeah what was his uh what was his like look what what was he you know like gray and cold uh-huh you know millennial gray yes he really chose a lot everything was gray that you chose do you think think about it the coffee table the entryway table brown brown no no they're that's great they're shades of gray the concrete dining room table the chairs gray gray the buffet table gray that's your side tables in the bedroom the nightstands right yeah you gotta you gotta choose a color eventually it's kind of wild everything I do a lot of greens and browns a lot of green yeah this is your home it very much so but you know this table is reminding me of is a tip I recently saw because I've been I got a lot of wood a lot of wood furniture uh dark woods light woods a lot of cloth and then I saw a tip that that's where you should be should start with organics and then you have one or two in organics you have like some stone or some metal I'm like I'm under I'm under on the stone and metal that's what the coffee table makes me think because I gotta get some marble and that's a nice green stone so that's to my heart yeah that is beautiful thank you and it won't break I don't think I don't think so I don't know it is marble yeah how is uh the single life been going it's been going pretty great you know I mean that's what uh it's a new era of life like I said I was in a very very happy relationship for a long time had not dating again for the first time in my uh early 40s last time I was could I even really say I was dating I was 24 years old 24 24 25 met my ex at 25 yeah okay and that's scary getting back into it yeah um a little bit but it was sort of also it was the exciting part of the breakup you know because the breakup was like it it six months into it we were both like this was what we needed to do right um and now we're me and her are really tight and uh uh you know we're like we needed to grow as people we need to separate but at the time of course it's still like tumultuous and like yeah don't go etc and so I was feeling sad and I was like I'll I'll dry my tears by going on a lot of weird dates as quickly as possible like that's the exciting part you know how'd that go fun honestly it was I mean I don't know I don't think a lot so for instance uh I felt like so cut off from dating life you know um like I literally had never installed a dating app before uh because they had not existed last time I was single I'd heard people complain about them I heard tinder this and grinder that and hinge I was like I've never even installed these from the app store you know I felt like an unfrozen caveman just like experiencing everything for the first time and uh I think the impression I got is that someone in the dating world are so sick of it that me showing up with any amount of enthusiasm and delight it was like very refreshing you know uh I still find the dating app experience kind of magical honestly really yeah because it's like I mean sure if you if I think if you're really goal oriented and you're like looking for a life partner or something I can understand it gets to be really a grind but if you're just trying to like have some new experiences it's like hey what if I told you that there was an app that was really cool and I was like I don't know I don't know I don't know what to do with this app that let you meet a completely random person from your city you have no I they don't know anyone you know they don't have you don't have the same background in common the only thing you know about each other is you might kind of want to fuck each other like and that's all you have in common that's kind of cool like it's like roll the dice see what happens you know yeah let's romanticize dating apps yeah I might need to like re-evaluate my perspective on dating apps yeah I don't know if you take it that way you gotta take a love out of it yeah a hundred percent right I know it's a lot of things and I've tried to be more open as I'm going through just about I mean I'm more open in general because I think I'll be looking at somebody's profile and I'm like but do I see the end goal you know and I think that weaves out a lot of people but you don't know anything about them really yeah you're looking at their profile and you're thinking are we going to have grandkids is that yeah that's a lot of pressure to put a lot of pressure when I have grandkids and I'm like yeah I'm going to have grandkids and I'm going to have a paragraph someone voice that they typed on their Samsung you know hopefully not a paragraph or two and you're already excluding them right you're like green bubbles no yeah isn't that crazy i know yeah i'm just sort of looking to be like hey can we have a nice thursday evening you know that's all i'm looking to have uh is just an enjoyable evening and i actually really like that even if i if i go on a date and we sometimes you sit down you're immediately like oh we're not going to have chemistry or we're just not or whatever that can still be a nice evening you can still have a good time with someone who you're like oh it's not going to be romantic or it's not going to be like physical with this person how do you feel about if you were to match with a girl and she was like do you mind if we facetime before we go for like a vibe check are you down yeah i'm down with that it's only happened a couple of times yeah but uh sometimes it's literally just identity verification and they're like i just want to see your face okay bye like i had one of those i think any good man jumps at the opportunity to prove they're not a killer yeah 100 but yeah no that's that's totally fine to do a to do a vibe just to be like hey let's chat a little bit i mean it's a little bit unnatural to chat with someone for the first time over or facetime but uh if you can have any kind of positive vibe in that scenario then you'll probably do okay over drinks you know and i understand people want to filter out but i think the point that you make is are so you're on the apps currently and you're like are you you're looking for love you're looking for the yeah a partner of some kind yeah i think that's i think that is harder because if you're if you're looking for something in particular then it i think can probably look like you're filtering through this vast number of people right i'm explicitly not doing that i was in a very long relationship i'm like mostly focusing on myself and trying to figure out who i am and then also trying to have some fun experiences with new people because i think you discover something about yourself when you're with a new person you know uh so that's sort of what i'm in it for and i'm so i'm very like easygoing about it and i think that's a little bit of an advantage you know for sure and i'm sure that is very refreshing if i'm being honest that's the person i don't want to run into on the apps and i mean that respectfully yeah because i feel like i don't want to be somebody's thursday night you know what i mean or just somebody's thursday night i'm down to start with a thursday but i've been single for a long time so i'm like okay i actually want somebody who's ready for commitment who wants x y and z but very rarely do people actually put what they're looking for in the bio of their dating app because some people are just looking for what is your bio let's see well as i say in the stand-up special um the only app i'm on is field which is the freak app um and one of the things i like about it is people are very specific on that app about what they want sometimes too specific but then did you join that because you're a freak or you're just curious i wanted to have a real both i wanted to have a real wide aperture again i was in a very sort of normie hetero relationship for a long time and i and i was like there's there's stuff about myself i haven't discovered and explored i just want to see what's out there and be expansive right and not have any preconceived notions and uh i was just like this looks like the app where like the weirdos hang out and i want to meet the weirdos by which i mean there's like kinky people and poly people and a lot of queer folks on there of all of all types and and i just had the sense i was like hinge is where people are like you know spouse shopping and i'm explicitly not doing that and there's less people like that on field so that's where i'll go but so people are um uh i just went on a date with someone this week who said uh look i'm looking for casual but caring you know a date every week or so and i was like that's not if i was going to hang out with someone consistently that sounds totally fine and that's great other people are like oh i'm looking for the real thing but i'm down to just have fun in the meantime or whatever and then some people are just looking for like uh someone to suck my toe yeah yes exactly a very specific i know you're cunt i know i understand i understand perhaps i will get the app i mean yeah people are people are like looking for something you know specific on there um and that can be that can be nice but the very least people are looking for something a little bit less traditional you know i i think it's it's i don't know when so many people people are so different and they're looking for so many different things it's nice to be in an environment that uh accepts that as an app and gives people a way to talk about it rather than one where a lot of the other apps like your sort of match.com or like e-harmony.com descended app is like christian mingo it's like you're going to find your life partner and we're going to match you on the um the million dimensions compatibility it's like well maybe not everybody is looking for that and so you shouldn't have people pretend curious as someone who didn't even know like the apps were a thing how did you know i've never even heard a field how did you know good question oh you know what i heard other stand-up comedians do jokes about it okay yeah and and specifically it had a its original thing was it was literally the uh the poly app do you know the original name of the app it was this is years ago but the original name of the app was thrinder and it was specifically looking for people who were looking for thirds love so it was like thrinder and of course they were like almost immediately hit with the cease and desist right um third would have been a great name too just third i assume that field is playing the field i guess so yeah yeah yeah and then also feel your feeling you're i there's a okay there's a texture in your finger tips uh yeah i think it's playing the field yeah so as someone who's been in a 15 year relationship yeah who didn't actually get married but especially it's called big divorce energy and it's called that this is a source of confusion but it's sort of intentional that makes sense is that the the breakup had the energy of a divorce and i have now have the energy of a divorced guy despite not technically and you guys deciding not to get married that i'm assuming that was like an intentional decision you guys made at some point in the relationship or do you just just it just never happened it was yeah it was it was intentional at the beginning it was like a conversation at the beginning we were like oh we're not really interested we were so career focused you know and how are your views on marriage today good question um have you done one of your uh adam ruins marriage oh yeah we did one of those you did in uh in like year two we did an adam ruins weddings and adam ruins marriage and a lot of that was about like the uh i think my objection to marriage generally is it to the cultural institution of marriage is that it's so one-size-fits-all right is that it's you get married and there's this huge bundle of cultural assumptions and legal responsibilities that that is just sort of applied to your relationship if you're especially in a hetero marriage that you don't really get to like pick and choose like you can with your partner say let's do this and not do that but other people are still gonna assume that about you you know what i mean and one of the things i don't like about for instance it's sort of pass fail it's like you know until death do you part is like in there at least that's part of the presumption and i think that's probably not right for a lot of people right like a lot of crazy contract it's a yeah it's a crazy well and what's even just legally what's crazy is like i bought a house you you bought a house at some point right yeah you know you know when you they bring you a big stack of paper right and they are real real estate lawyer went through page by page i was like well this is what this page means this is what this page means this obligates you to i don't does anybody do that when you get married do they come and say hey here is all of the legal responsibility no they only do that when you get the divorce we did that because we did the prenup which everyone should do right but to your point when you actually get married no i i just find it fascinating and i don't i don't know who taught me this but like yeah like everyone signs a marriage contract but and it's the contract of the state in which to get married but no one really thinks about that yep exactly and all a prenup is is like i'm not going to take your contract we'll just agree to our own thing and that's that that's such a great way to frame it right and that gets also gets around like oh is it romantic or not well is it romantic just to allow the state of california or nevada or whatever to apply it to you without you even knowing what's in there like uh you know like what is there's like common property states or whatever i don't even know what the difference is so i think that that's not great um i think that people are so different and relationships are so different you know so me and my ex for instance we we're the type we had such a happy 15 year relationship and then it was time for us to move on in our lives can i ask whether it was time we both wanted like to explore other things you know um uh like she had uh she had like developed a really strong crush on somebody and i was like that's fine you can feel that way um we've been together a really long time i had felt really like like super sexually like shut down you know like i had really kept myself in a little box and i i felt like i was like out of touch with my sexuality and and i was trying to like figure out like how do i flirt with people and sort of like is this something i can engage with um and that like us exploring those things just sort of led to the we were like is there room for this in the relationship could we open up no it didn't that we're not that type of people and we just had to go our separate ways and and it was you know it was like a rupture but then very quickly we uh you know just kept talking and and realized we wanted to be in each other's lives and so now it's the type of thing where i was like that was a really beautiful time in our lives and she's already dating somebody knew who's very nice and uh maybe i will meet a you know a long-term partner maybe i won't but either way that's a happy time in our lives right that was the shape our lives took um there's plenty of people like that right uh i always think about it but i felt so much guilt right when we broke up i was like oh i i failed we were supposed to stay together forever even though we weren't married right and then i would go look at you ever go look at a celebrity's wikipedia page and it's like oh they were married to this person for 15 years and they had two kids and then they split and then they married this other person and then oh and then you look at and then they pass away or whatever and you look at the thing you're like oh what a full life they led what that looks so nice oh they had three marriages and all of them seemed happy or whatever different people have different uh uh patterns and goals and things that they want um and i think that the at the very least the way that we talk about marriage and the presumptions that we have like at the wedding ceremony don't like naturally give space for that sort of thing and one of the other reasons i went on field was um i realized towards the end of the relationship or in the couple years as i was really realizing maybe there are other parts of myself i wanted to explore i started to realize i was um feeling really like jealous of my uh queer friends and my trans friends and people like that and it was because they had designed lives that had worked for them you know because they were like already sort of out of the mainstream uh and and that experience i was like that's cool to be like here's what i want here's what i don't want you know etc and i was like i never did that for myself i never asked like what what kind of romantic or even personal life do i want to live yeah uh and the other piece of it i'm i'm dumping all the information right now but uh i felt like i'd never lived like an adult independent life you know like when we met i was like 25 and i you know had i had never lived without roommates you know i was like a complete misfit and we sort of like clung on to each other and you know shared an apartment and bought furniture together and stuff and built careers um but i was like i never had the uh experience of just being like a single person who like i bought my own furniture and i cook my own food and i like have the way of what i the example i keep using is like um i think of like the the male characters on sex in the city right where it's like oh so and so is dating this new guy and he's like a man who lives in an apartment and has a he's like an architect and he has a dog and he has this interest he likes he likes classical music or whatever he's like a whole guy yeah you know he exists in his own world exactly and then he's gonna choose to combine that with somebody else right i get that and i felt like i didn't know who i was by myself i was like i've only experienced myself as being half of this other person and how can you you know really love somebody if you don't know who you are you know it's sort of it's a really beautiful sentiment to be honest i think as a woman i'm in my 30s and i want a life partner and you do kind of have this vision i i don't think ever growing up that was like my goal i was always very ambitious and i think i spent a lot of my 20s like chasing dreams chasing ambition and just thinking that that thing would fall into place and then when it didn't now being in my 30s i'm like wait i like i never thought i was gonna have to like really work at this i guess i just thought it happened for everybody but there is something really beautiful i i think to looking at things the way that you are because i and i love my friends and i love their husbands but a lot of my friends married really young and i and i look back and i'm like if i had married at 23 or 24 years old i don't think i would be who i am today and i love who i am today and i do want to combine that with somebody but i if i had done it when i was 23 i don't know that i would exist in the way that i do and have the experience and i certainly wouldn't have had the experiences that i've had so i think it's really beautiful that you're finding something unique and special and different than what is like the social norm i think it's really like powerful and i it honestly makes it makes me feel good about my journey too yeah like i'm like okay like there's not just one way that you have to do things yeah and i love that you are giving yourself permission to do that thank you i'm a huge believer in that um and and uh it's funny how much you can put other people's decisions on yourself without even realizing it you know in the same way that you know me and me and uh my ex lisa had never uh gotten married and was like yeah we don't we don't really need to it's you know oh we're we're gonna be more non-traditional than that but then when we you know towards the end i was like am i did i make some big error by not getting married is that what we were supposed to have done and we split up oh did i fail in some way and uh and i realized how much i had applied standards to myself without even sort of realizing it you know yeah and it's often it's all it took like a year at least to sort through all those feelings and it taught me like it's often kind of hard to figure out what you want like if you think it is obvious but so often it's just you accepting what you were told either explicitly or implicitly by other people or the culture to want and it actually takes like a bunch of steps to realize like no hold on no i actually don't want it i'm fine for others but but here's what i yeah here's what i'm looking for well and if y'all would have gotten married then there would have been a of a space where you could have asked her for support like our good friend jax taylor is doing to britney cartwright right now which i feel like is just a crazy move in general did you guys get off scott free that way there's no there was no like a common law no we co-owned a home that i am currently buying her out of okay and and lucky that we are on good enough terms we made a we we're on great terms we made a like uh agreement with our we have the same lawyer and they hammered something out amazing you know made it like co-parenting a dog we are co-parenting a dog but how does that work it's her dog you know we i love the dog the dog is very happy to see me i'll i'll dog sit her anytime and i spent you know seven or eight years of my life with this maybe a little bit less but you're not using it as a weapon to like some people do with children yeah yeah or dogs are you familiar with the jack saylor no i'm not are you familiar with him at all no i don't think so how do we break this down for him have you heard of the van show of vanderpump rules i have heard of him he was a star in vanderpump rules he's been a problematic character all of his life he is now dating his publicist who used to be the publicist for both him and his ex-partner oh wow why we have a child together i don't know if they were actually partners yeah who knows they're like teammates he's a he's a problematic guy for a lot of reasons his own publicist yes seems like a conflict of interest that's the least of his problematic behavior yeah overall he's like a terrifying individual like can we honestly i'm curious what is an emotional terrorist chat gpt say about who is jacks taylor maybe like who is jack taylor for dummies maybe can we ask i got you thank you mary what the brit i've asked chat gpt what my rundown is have you ever read your own it's not it's not healthy no i know i shop for pain a lot it's healthier than asking reddit okay this is really long but let's just go the short this is cat gpt shorthand jack taylor is a foundational figure in modern bravo villainy fair he's not the smartest person in the room but he has an almost supernatural ability to make everyone else's lives worse while generating the most excellent television honestly he's really putting some like stank on that how they're like putting some spin on it it could have been worse for sure his greatest hits include cheating on girlfriends lying about things that were objectively easy to verify having a long-running feud with everyone getting caught in increasingly elaborate schemes one time he pretended that he was getting a job in tampa to like work on a hockey team and that was just how is this guy not like the secretary of defense already like however he you know he's mostly famous for bravo world which is predominantly a women-driven audience um so financially speaking he has done and said some things that have made it difficult for him to make money he's only doing cameos at this point even that i guess is a little oh he was on the spinoff the valley they he did season one and two and got anyways got fired from that and now he's saying like i no one's gonna no one is hiring me i'm dating my publicist and now i need seventeen thousand dollars a month from you because she's the breadwinner she is the breadwinner and it's like someone will hire you you just have to go get a normal job yeah like unfortunately for you you now have to work but you know he is exposing a flaw in the the archaic system that is marriage marriage yeah i mean those we're such a long time has passed between when all those laws around spousal support were made they have kids together we have one kid okay okay is he financially support i guess that's between them and their lawyers to figure out but it is i i'm guessing he's not doing much she is paying for everything right and see that's including her own mental health of which he is ruining uh-huh yeah and we're not even being dramatic when we say that you know it was it's bad and i think that's where i i feel conflicted because on one hand if he does have custody of the child at times sure he does need to be able to pay for the child so if he's not able to make money the kid needs to be okay seventeen thousand dollars a month seems a bit excessive for one child that he probably doesn't have that much custody over yeah right and i'm like surely a lot of that would be going to things that she probably wouldn't approve of slash his lifestyle and i just i think that is just such a main a major flaw in the system and now it's like she this man has been so toxic to her life yeah that it's like now she has to she can't even cut ties with you like now she has to fund your lifestyle lifestyle is he getting the money is it happening i don't know i don't i think he's now just announced that he's gonna go after that amount of money yeah so that's this this is he'll probably win something you think so i think he will i mean i'm no expert when it comes to these types of we're we're this is so funny it says it says jack's lawyer asked her to hand over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to pay his lawyer fees and ten thousand dollars to pay a forensic accountant jack says he's unemployed and has no regular income and claims britney orchestrated a targeted campaign to label him as an abuser as a result he says he lost out on a role on special forces and claims uh carp deodorant declined to extend their partnership with him amid other reputational consequences well i think his reputation precedes him i think he's the one that has like literally been an i mean on camera abusive well he chose also on that to like date his publicist who was repping his wife who was also friends with her and then blamed his wife for somehow strategically not trying to ruin his reputation the relationship between her and the publicist can't be very good at this point no i think yeah she has been fired we had a couple of conversations with her she's been fired she's been fired she's been fired she's been fired from their co-stars lala commented bottom feeders just wait for that ring camera footage to drop you've heard about the ring camera footage i have also heard it's really bad but it's also like goes toe-to-toe with jack's you know like it didn't surprise me when i heard about i wasn't like oh my god he did what he said what i was like oh that makes sense zach said he's the worst and continues to show you why such a beta bitch boy as always loser behavior i allegedly of course would possibly know what he does and does not pay for when it comes to cruise and let me tell you i doubt that twenty eight thousand dollars is going to cruise and how many days it's twenty eight thousand oh wait a strange no seventeen thousand four hundred and one a month okay i don't know that one dollar yeah that's crazy and how many days does he actually have him or take care of him question mark hmm kristin dodi says at tmz can you stop with the jack's updates no one cares unfortunately we do people do it's just because it's like we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going on and we don't this man like nothing embarrasses him anymore you know like he really just they'll do it he'll he'll do it all i i have a question because this kind of we i was talking last night with some girlfriends about restarting after relationships their friend group historically has been intertwined i think a lot of people have obviously bailed on their friendship with him but when you separated yeah what did that look like from a friendship standpoint because i'm sure you're totally integrated yeah it was totally integrated i i feel very it's one of the reasons i feel very lucky and grateful that we remained friends yeah and that we like pretty quickly within like a year we're able to sort of hang out with our mutual friends in like group settings sometimes it was a little bit awkward but you know um it would have been a lot more painful had we had to split up friends uh definitely and i'll say that we literally had uh one friend of ours our friend like there was one time we were like hanging out with dylan while we were like almost like mid or the breakup was like about to happen and we like went on a walk with her and we're like talking through the sort of like pre-breakup stuff before it actually happened yeah and then as we separated we both kept hanging out with dylan separately and she was like hearing both sides of it and never never getting in the middle of it never saying oh well this person said this person said just continuing to like non-judgmentally hang out with both of us and like you know like a year and a half later i thanked her because i was like that was really it was very normalizing because it's so to me i think the worst part of the split especially after that amount of time was you know you feel all this preemptive shame of like what if all my friends think i really fucked up what if all of uh you know what if people are looking at me and they're seeing some weird half of a person you know and and just that we had friends who are willing to sort of like sit with both of us and be like i still like you guys you know do you think that you could fall in love with someone without ever seeing their face well that sounds like a great premise for a show um uh fall fall in love fall in love yeah and get married great and get married uh great question i think i think probably not you couldn't yeah and i don't think that's because i like need to evaluate their uh their appearance i think it's because like i don't know visual connection as part of connection with the person you know like i think it's more like could you fall in love with someone without ever like looking them in the eye you know uh without ever making eye contact i think is the the harder part you know that would be a lot harder what's the thing that you were most afraid about when you were getting a separation uh that ended up not being true and what's the thing that you didn't expect to happen post-divorce where you're like this kind of sucks post-breakup oh let's see uh wait the that was complicated which what is the thing i thought would happen that ended up not being true yeah like thing that you worried about most yeah when the breakup was happening we're like yeah i don't i didn't need to worry about that um was there something that you didn't i really felt in terms of dating i felt so stuck in how i felt about it when i was 24 which is essentially the same way i felt about when i was 17 which is like i hope i hope girls like me you know oh they probably won't like just this sort of feeling of general ineptitude and like disgustingness you know and i still felt that way sometimes you know one out of three dates i'd like feel like a total like simp and i'd fuck it up right but the rest of them i was like oh i actually i thought i would be so bad at it you know um but it turns out like i did sort of acquire some like basic social skills and like grooming techniques in between 25 and like 42 uh that uh benefited me so like that piece of it turned out to be a lot like easier and more fun than i thought it would be like i i went into it feeling positive but apprehensive you know it was the other one what did i what ended up happening and what was the other one what did i what ended up happening ended up being a problem yeah like something that we were like i didn't appreciate this how how challenging this aspect of being single again would be that is a that is a really good question uh some you know something i did anticipate that did happen is uh and that's not your question but um grocery shopping by yourself at like 11 p.m buying food for one does feel bad you know actually it feels being a single serving guy it's tough it feels bad and good because i'm on the one hand you know you're listening to the music and it feels exactly like you're a sad character in like a dramedy yeah you know like you're steve carell and like the 40 year old virgin or something like looking at you know by yourself i relate to this too hard but then on the other hand it was so uh liberating to i'm gonna buy food that is exclusively what i want to eat i'm not shopping for somebody else and i'm not having to think about does she like this and are we going to be able to finish it i'm not going to be able to finish it i'm not going to be able to finish it in time i'm just thinking about what do i want to eat over the next week i'm not thinking about anybody else's dietary restrictions or like likes or dislikes you know the the opportunity to i i just am the type of person where i think about my partner like way too much you know and uh i put someone else's needs before my own too much which to me i was like isn't that what love is putting someone else's needs before your own but if you do that to such a degree that you are not in touch with like who you are and what you want like that's not attractive to anybody that's not like a good way to be so i also uh this is this is embarrassing i also started uh uh driving again for the first time after we split up i had i had become a this is your princess i i'd become a passenger princess i was also like i appreciate that i was an la public transit guy i was like i take the bus and the subway this was part of my sort of almost public persona was i'm a bus rider part of my previous hour of stand-up comedy was about that um but uh and people are like oh that's so great oh you just take the take public transit around la i was like yeah i do i'm so noble and of course my uh girlfriend was subsidizing my lifestyle by giving me rides when i need when i needed them and yeah when we split up i was like well i can't live that way anymore and i had to like speed run you know freshening up my skills and then leasing a car and you know doing all that very quickly so very adult um a very adult and uh uh that was but that was like part of the part of the growing up process was i i felt like i was becoming an adult for the for the first time in a way uh such a just an interesting time in someone's life uh a breakup and no it's great i mean i've had so many moments of i can't believe i'm starting over type of energy but it's a it's a it's a part that we all obviously most of us end up experiencing at one point another so yeah it's interesting also english muffin is a great single serving guy hack just saying just to put anything on an english it's great on a burger you can make a good sandwich you can toast it it keeps well in the fridge like sometimes when you buy like a bun it's just like you have like two days and you have to like have six sandwiches or you're wasteful i have found that an english muffin is a great i like to cook and i like to make a big pot of food and what i learned is you just gotta go to the freezer more quickly you gotta put it in the freezer don't don't if you just are exclusively doing your leftovers out of the fridge it's gonna get a little bit too old yeah and when you make that big pot of chili put half of it in the freezer right away and then you know you'll be surprised by what's in there oh i'm hungry oh you know what i froze some chili the other week i got something to eat adam it's been great to have you on hey thank you so much for having a big divorce energy is the special it's out on now on youtube check it out it's very funny very hilarious anyone who is going through that stage of life it uh i've always found uh when i was going through that it was great to have like a fellow companion to like share that with um so it's a very funny special i thought thank you so much i found a lot of people are connecting to it yeah where else can people find you all that fun stuff uh you can find me on at adam conover wherever you get your social media my youtube channel is at the adam conover are we still ruining everything yeah but in more romantically now yeah yeah uh i'm also on tour as a comic and uh you can see me all over the country adam conover.net for all my tour dates check it out yeah thank you guys so much for having me thank you all right well that will do it for today's episode thank you to all our guests wilney and adam conover we appreciate them and we appreciate all of you for listening do not forget tomorrow we have a big big big juicy jam-packed episode of going deeper with sarah and michaela from love is blind uh lots of uh unanswered questions that we all have for those ladies but thank god we have them on our couch here tomorrow and we get all those questions answered so you do not miss that and then we have more coming your way on thursday's episode of reality recap so we'll see you all then until then have a good one bye you