E1212 - Nick STRANDED, You Can See Everything & The Wonka Mini Reunion

[MUSIC] What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Reality Recap. I am your host, Natalie Joy. Join by my remote and in the airport and lost husband. We have a jam packed episode as always. Ann Appeal returns to the Vowel Files. She is a contributing editor at Vanity Fair, wrote an amazing behind-the-scenes love island book, Enter the Villa, and previously profiled Nick for The New York Times. She is here to talk, dancing with the stars, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, and the hit film you can see everything. Then after Ann Appeal, we have the finalist from Wonka's Golden Ticket joining us to talk all things the show, what they've been up to after, you do not want to miss it. And before we get into the episode, don't forget that we have Vowel Files Plus. If you love hearing us ramble about pop culture topics and dive deeper into your favorite shows, this might be the right place for you. Jimmy Nick and Susie have been talking flying cars, dating apps, and of course, dancing with the stars. So if you want to hear us unfiltered, sign up for Vowel Files Plus at the link in our bio or go to Vowel Files.com. Nick, how are you doing? Why am I in-- I am in Dallas Airport in Washington, DC. I'm wearing a Brewer hat. I got to go to the Brewer game last night at the World Series game in Tampa Bay, Florida. Sadly, they lost. Sadly for some. It was almost the most epic story. But let me take you back. Was it Monday Night Babe? We're filming Age of Attraction. Are we allowed to say that? I don't know. We're filming. And the World Series is on, and it's game three, and they have this most insane, incredible ending where they're up like 10 nothing. And I say to Natalie, oh my god, I should try to go to-- I wish I could go to Tampa Bay, because game four-- not there in a position to win the World Series. And my lovely supportive wife was like, you should. And in between filming, I'm looking up tickets online. I'm looking up airline tickets. And I'm like, well, who-- I really want to share this moment with my dad. So I call it my dad. And he's like, don't time with the Scorks. I just landed in Denver, because he was visiting my sister. And I'm like, well, if they win, how do you feel about going to Florida tomorrow? And anyways, so I bought tickets. I got these amazing tickets behind home flight. And me and my dad, we decided to go. But I'm booking all this stuff in between a bunch of stuff. My attention to details, oh, never the best. And it was already-- it was always going to be a tight thing. Oh, so anyways, as a family, we are flying home from Vancouver that next day. And we're like, well, how do I do that? And again, lovely supportive, very creative wife was like, why don't you-- we had a layover in Dallas. She's like, and you should see if there's a flight to Tampa. And there was. So I booked that, and that was a plan. And my dad was flying in from Denver. He had literally just landed an hour before. And I was like, how do you feel about going to Florida tomorrow? And so he was up for it. And so we had to wake up at 3am Vancouver time for our flight. And I'm trying to check in for my other flight. I'm trying to figure out, why can't I check in? And then I realized that I booked a flight for November 17 and not the day of. And I'm like, I have no-- I'm like, oh, my god. I have no flights. Meanwhile, I call out my dad. He's already on a flight to Denver. So I'm like, I'm thinking for a moment of time, my dad is going to be in Tampa by himself having to go to this game, because I can't find a ticket. Anyway, I finally found a ticket. I found a first-class ticket. I'm this deep already. I bought it. And then I knew there was another flight, but I thought I was going to-- oh, there was an earlier flight that I didn't think I was going to make, because I'm connecting-- I didn't think I was going to land in time. But thank God we took off on time actually quite a little bit ahead of time. And I was like, I think we're going to make-- I think I'll have a chance. So I went online and booked a ticket available. So I had two flights. I had two flights deep at this point, Nick. I have two tickets. And so anyways, I ended up making the first flight. It all worked out. I got there. It was awesome. It was the most insane game. And I am just absolutely fried. You caught a foul ball. What? What? So-- At the drop. You're full of surprise. You're full of surprises. Oh, sorry. I was just like, why is any getting to the best part? Well, don't look. Yeah, it is the best part. So in saying game, you know, by the time you guys are listening to this, hopefully, cross your fingers. They win tonight. And the Brewers are World Series champions. I'm obviously like-- OK. Let's come down there. You want to tell me? Mary graciously sent her parents to the game because her dad's a Florida fan. Yeah. So in the 12th inning, they hit a home run to go ahead. And I'm like, holy shit, they're going to do it. I'm like having a moment. I'm sitting there with my dad. I'm like, I'm going to be able to-- I'm going to be watching the Brewers with my dad winning the World Series. We're going to have this moment together. I'm like on the verge of fears. And then Cheerio hits a foul ball. And I catch it. And I'm like, cheerio ball, too? That's sick. Yeah, there's a cheerio ball right here. And it's got the World Series logo on it. That's very cool. Yo, that's cool as shit. That's like, did you have to rip it out of a child's hands or do you actually catch the-- Yeah, so I hope you had to rip it out. I hope you did. No, no, no, no, no, here's a so funny. I shit you not earlier in the game. Now, granted me and my dad were unedible. So I'm like, kind of thinking of the game. Reflex is still a whole point. Not really, Jim. I was kind of-- not really. But anyways, I'm thinking I was literally like-- I was literally like, there was a couple of foul balls. And I've never caught one. And I literally was like, well, what happens? That'd be cool if I caught a foul ball. I actually had this vision, not vision. I had this thought that like, what if someone-- what if someone had a foul ball, and I caught it. And then next at bat, they hit the game winning home run. And it was like the foul ball before the big hit. It was like a little bit after. And then-- No. I've always had this thought. Like, I'm at the age where it's just like, I've done a lot of cool things. Like, I've a foul ball, cool. But like, you know those videos where you see people lose their mind with the foul balls, and they like grab it from the kid, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So I was thinking about what if I caught a foul ball in the game, and I remember thinking, like, honestly, I would just want to look and give it to a kid, you know, and have that moment. And I literally looked around my group, and there was like no kids. It was just, you know, it was a world series. It's like, there was no-- A bunch of old guys. No, just for myself. You know, and then I literally thought to myself, this is before the foul ball. I'm like, I don't know, man, it's the world series. If I actually caught one, I'm glad there's no kids around. Because like, maybe I don't want to give it to my daughters. You know, like it says, they win the game. I'm kind of, I'm having all these thoughts before the foul ball. So then I get the foul ball, and it actually-- it hit the thing above me, and it came down, and it landed, it came down above me. And honestly, I don't know if there's a camera on me. I hope there isn't, because I kind of was a little bitch. I flinched. I went like this. But lucky enough, it just landed right on my feet. I mean, just-- - Wow. - That's insane. - Did your dad ask for it? - No, no. - Thank you. - Yeah. - You used all your manifestation energy on the foul ball, and then there wasn't enough manifestation energy for the win. - Yeah, so-- - You're the fly. - Or the fly. - Or the fly. - Yeah, or the fly. - Well, yeah, so I had a six AM flight schedule to get back at home in time to be in studio with my wife, and I have everyone there. But like I hit, at this point, I'm going on no sleep for like two days, and I hit the snooze, but it wasn't the snooze. I just turned that bitch off, and I just was like-- - Rookie of the day. - Just went back to that, and woke up like 10 minutes before the flight was about to come. - A tale of all his time, babe. - So anyways, it was still very cool. I hope the time you guys have listened to this, they've already won the World Series, but like it was special to go with my dad, and I'm so thankful. Like Natalie was so supportive, and like it was, I mean, I literally abandoned my family in Dallas. I was like, "I'm fine." - And while-- - And now, like the side of the coin that's my version is Nick leaves us in Dallas, and I'm like, okay, well now we have both the twins, and just both of the two twins that kind of cancels out. It's just twins, right? - Yeah. - That just means two. - Okay, so we have the twins. We have River, and it's me and my mom. And so now my mom is carrying Dove. I have Iris, and then River has her own seat. Production nicely enough put us in first class. My mom was not in first class. So now I'm like, okay, now I need my mom to take Nick's seat, so that way we're all together. So I go up and I talk to the agent. He's like, "Uh, that's, I don't know. "I need to talk to my supervisor." Like that kind of feels like a manifest issue to, and I was like, "Okay, I mean, it makes sense, "but I would love to not have to have my newborn baby "in the back of the airplane." What if I need to nurse her? He's like, "I totally understand maybe whoever gets upgraded "because your husband is in here doesn't want to sit by babies, "no offense, and we'll switch with your mom." And I was like, "Okay, let's hope, I guess." So we're getting on the plane. I like, tell the flight attendants. They are kind of like, "You know what? "Yeah, if she gets upgraded." I'm like, "Okay, whatever at this point." So we get in our seats. I'm like, talking to my mom, like, "You got the bottle." Okay, and you got the binky. And here's the burp cost, and we're separating, And I'm like, okay. "Okay, I think you have everything, let me know." And then this nice man comes up and he was supposed to sit beside, technically beside Nick in the seats. And he's like, "Mam, do you wanna sit here?" And she was like, "Oh, I would love to, but you don't want my seat, it's like all the way in the back." He was like, "I really don't care, it seems like y'all need to be together." So nice, shout out to that man. So my mom's like, "Oh my God, thank you so much. She sits down, so now we're all together." Then this pilot for American Airlines comes up and he's like, "I just got upgraded to this seat, do you want this seat?" She's like, "No, this nice man like moved me." And he's like, "Listen, we're here to serve families." Like, "I don't need to be up here." Ends up, "He's the one who got Nick seat." So he's sitting there and he's talking to my mom this very nice pilot and he's, you know, my mom's like, "Oh, it's been such a whirlwind. You know, we've been in Vancouver with all the kids and the traveling and the filming." And he's like, "Oh, I know about that life." And she's like, "Which part? The traveling, the kids, the filming." He's like, "Yeah, the filming, I was an entertainment." My mom was like, "Oh, what did you, what did you do?" He was like, "I was the bachelor." And I was like, "What?" And I was like, "I'm sorry, I love the Santa." And I was like, "Sorry." No, my son-in-law was the bachelor. What do you mean you were also the bachelor? He's like, "Who's your son-in-law?" She's like, "Nick, that's his, that's my daughter right there." And he's like, "Oh." And what are the odds that it is? Jake Pavelka. The bachelor of the four. Then I'm like, "So then he turns to me." He's like, "Hi, I know your husband." You know, he tells me this whole story. Like, "What are the odds?" So sweet offers my mom his first class ticket because he's the one who got my husband's seat. It's just like- - Google, if Mercury's still in retrograde, because all these things happening right now does not sound- - Mercury is currently in retrograde, as is Venus, as is Saturn. - Yeah, so that's why all this shit's going down. - Okay, I don't even need to move on that. - I just know that. Our lose in the plot. - Yeah. - But Venus being in retrograde, I feel like it can make things really hectic, but it makes unusual connections. That can be challenging, but really cool. So- - Yes, it does. - I feel like it's all kismet. It feels really good. - You guys all make sense. - You guys almost spicy movie nights. - Astrology is real. Astrology. - Jake, for those of you who don't know, Anna, did you watch Jake's season? - No, that was before my bachelor hood started. - Mine too, but he had an iconic run. - Well, he just got married four months ago, and yes, he seems like he's the happiest he's ever been. So, he's a pilot, - And he's a pilot. - And he's a pilot. - That's awesome. - Wow. - Is that a stop-up and pay grade? That's not, not really. - Really cool, though. And it's so funny, flying with River, we're usually pretty strict about screen time, but I was like, anything you want, we're scrolling the American Airlines movie list. I'm like, anything you want, you pick it. - Okay, I'm Ellen. - All the Coca-Cola melon in the movie list. - The invite. - All that. - Literally, but you want to watch Insidious watch it, though? - Are they, are they, are they chilled to fly with? I had to fly with my cats, not to equate my cats to your children, but that was a hassle. - Oh my God, I've done that before. It's the most miserable thing in the world. - Oh, I was terrible. But how was the flying with kids? - I think it might be easier with kids, 'cause you can like give them a bottle or give them a boo, but with cats, it's just like, cats, they're just stuck there and they're going, oh, and you're like, what if I die? - Literally. - And you're like, oh my God, like I did this to you. - And they don't know what happened. And they don't know what happened. out because it was so miserable the cat gets out and it's loose on the plane and everyone's trying to catch this cat and the cat's like freaking out freaking out. What if you're allergic to that? Oh my god. Oh my god. Well really quickly, before we get into it, you can see everything with Ann appealed. This is going to be a spoiler warning because we do talk about the movie. So if you don't, when it's boiled, don't listen to this part, just skip forward and go watch to move yourself. Um, well, before I'm about to board on my flight, I'm just here to tell you we have a great and jam packed episode lined up for you. We got Annie here, obviously you guys know that, but we wanted to bring her out because obviously, uh, you can see everything is like everyone's talking about at the Nathan Field or movie. Um, and while I haven't had a chance to see it yet, uh, we wanted to bring Annie in to talk about, uh, the movie and just like what I find so interesting and of being at the investigative reporter and journalist and someone who does profiles on people and celebrities and a way back when did a profile on me and I just found the whole experience really fascinating because like, you know, when you do, you know, I'd love to hear your perspective, Anna. But like, you know, profiles is kind of this interesting thing where, you know, if you're someone like in my position, you know, you get asked to do like an interview and then you kind of hang out with the person interviewing you and you're both like having a conversation and hanging out while also being interviewed and there's this kind of, you know, like analysis of that hangout along with the Q&A. And it's kind of this very fascinating thing, which, you know, while I haven't seen the movie I've seen, you know, a bunch of clips and things like that, where Nathan Feeler obviously goes. And yeah, he lives with Elizabeth Holmes and Billy Evans, her husband, who's apparently a brewer fan shout out. I don't know if we just really shout out again. That's the only shout out he gets. - Girl, you gotta watch the movie. - I believe. - Okay. - Yeah. - Yeah. - We'll wait for you to leave. - Let the biggest handle this. - But it's a fascinating thing to be interviewed and to, you know, quite frankly, let someone in like a Nathan Field or an Anna Peel. And while I had a great experience with Anna, sometimes it doesn't always go that way. And so Anna, I'm curious when you watch this movie or when even when the movie came out, like you must have had, like I just assumed that you would kind of had a different lens of interest than the average fan, just because of like the work that you do day to day. And yeah, I just would love to hear it. - Yeah. So when you're doing a profile of somebody or you're capturing them the way that Nathan Fielder did in the documentary, it's like there are a few different things that are going on. And one is sort of, what is the public's perception of the person and what is the public wanna know about them? Like what's the fixed image? - And then there's your experience with them. - And you want to elicit and capture and convey some truth about them. - And it's not the whole truth about them. - You know, it's probably just one facet. - Because it's something that's edited. - It's not the full conversation. - It's not the full experience. - It can't be comprehensive. - But it's some slice of truth about them that teaches the reader or the viewer something that they didn't know about the person. Or sometimes it can just confirm, yes, this person is exactly who you thought they were. But there's something usually like, they're at an inflection point in their life. So something is changing or there's some reason why you're talking to them now. - That's so interesting. So what did you think of the movie? And I'm, what is your takeaway? Like I guess what, what are, and Mary, I know you saw it too. And I think. - Yeah, I got so many questions for you. - Yeah. - Have people changed their mind about Elizabeth Holmes and seeing this movie for the better or worse? Because it hadn't really been, you know, no one really had a high opinion of her for what she went to jail for. Is it worse now? - I think it's different. I think people have a lot more empathy for her because, and I think that this was part of the purpose of doing a documentary where you get to see her in this context where she's a mother. And whatever you think about her crimes, I'm personally not pro-crime, not pro-fraud. But like, whatever you thought about her, like this is a woman whose postpartum, she's still nursing, and she's going to be separated from her family. And so it's just really devastating and it felt really honest to watch her going through the thought process of realizing, oh my gosh, I'm going to be apart from them. What is prison going to be like? What is it going to be like to only see my babies one day a week for just a little bit of time and get to talk to them for two minutes a day? What's going to happen to them while I'm gone? So in that regard, I think like it was very humanizing. But I think that, and I keep going back and forth with what I think about it. And I think that one thing that's important is that there has been a lot of documentation. So there is John Carey-Roo's reporting about her. There's been a documentary, there's there have been books. There's, you know, the fictional series that Amanda Cyford starred in. And there's the trial. So it's like, she is guilty of the crime she committed. And so there are parts of the movie where, you know, Nathan is asking her, like, what went wrong? Where did this go wrong? And she's just like, I don't know, I don't know. And so like, once you feel like, oh, she's being so honest, she is showing everything. She doesn't seem to be lying. She does seem to believe this. And then there's this whole, like, mountain of evidence that we know she's lying. And I'm like, well, did you get brainwashed? You don't remember the trial. You don't remember all that stuff. And so, while I'm sympathetic to her as a person, I am like, well, if you don't know what you did wrong or what went wrong, then not only should you not be running a company up, [BLANK_AUDIO] Obviously, I'm like, "How do you even live in this world and survive?" Isn't it fascinating? She befriended Jen Shaw in prison, who went to prison for-- My understanding, I've recently confirmed this, and they're still very tight, as my understanding through hearing from reliable sources. But yeah, like, Jen Shaw ran an ab class, Jen Shaw ran an ab class, and Elizabeth Holmes was doing her ab class. And at one point in the movie, Billy Evans-- this is kind of a disgusting scene-- but he is talking about how she is a six-pack. And I was like, "Oh, that's because of Jen Shaw." That's crazy. Anna, I wonder-- So I think such a big part of this movie was just kind of obviously the concept of truth. And you said it before of obviously Elizabeth Holmes as a person is this complicated figure, but she did commit those crimes. That is truthful evidence that she committed those crimes. And I guess, as far as Nathan and Lance making this movie and shooting this with her, she obviously has an understanding of what's happening and what she's done and what the purpose of a documentary is. So I just wonder, like, your perspective on navigating those kinds of conversations with someone where it's like there's 80 different things going on, and you want to be respectful towards them. But then also it's like, you know they're lying, but Nathan creates this relationship with her where he's almost tricked by it. And I'm just wondering, like, your thoughts on that as far as a journalist's perspective of what's kind of supposed to happen in that situation versus what made this movie become what it was. If and when you're profiling somebody or like making a documentary about them, if someone is interesting enough to be the subject of a documentary, they're usually charismatic. There's a reason why people are so interested in them. And it's really easy to kind of, you both like fall under the spell, but you know that it is a spell. And so you're like, oh, like they're doing the thing to me. Like they're doing the thing that they do to everyone, but they're doing it to me. But you still feel it, but you know that it's a trick. And so I think Nathan was really interrogating his relationship between like, okay, like does she? I know she's lying, but does she know she's lying? And like to what extent is that going to work on me? And then he was also very honest in those moments where he's like, you know, she says, he says have you ever told a lie? And she says no. And he says, Liz, what? Like everyone's told a lie. That's crazy. That's a crazy response. Yeah, but then it's like, I guess, um, so like the who's on first scene? Incredible. For example. Incredible. Right. So basically, I mean, like she, she's in this moment saying that she does not understand the classic Abbott and Castello comedy bit who's on first. And what she, quote unquote, finds funny about it is that they're talking over each other, not the idea of who. But this is after they had this conversation about Theranos of like Theranos can provide all of these things. So I guess versus is capable. Yes. So I guess my question is like, with this woman who is so smart and also very aware of perception of her and what words do like that scene. Is that seen? Do you guys think her knowing that if she admits that she understands the concept of who's on first, he would get her in a gacha of lying or does she actually not understand? I think she didn't understand at the beginning of the scene. Like if you had never heard of Abbott and Castello and you never heard of the comedy routine and you're watching it, like I get how, and you're like, she's like literally breastfeeding in the scene. She's like, postpartum. She's about to go to prison. Like, I don't know, you know, I mean, how closely is she paying attention to this like black and white comedy bit from like the thirties? But then Nathan explains it, the joke to her, like the first baseman's name is who. And she doesn't go, oh, like she doesn't have like a, the reaction that you would have if someone explained the punchline. She just is like, I don't get it. And so that's when I was like, oh my gosh, is she actually playing us because even if you, your mind worked differently and you couldn't understand the bit, you would get the explanation of the bit. This is when Billy jumps in and is like, this is why she's so special. Her brain works differently. She thinks differently than other people. She needs people like me to do the nitty gritty, the logistic, or not the logistical, like she needs to lock it on what she's good at and I can handle basically everything else. And that felt like there's all these little metaphors throughout the entire film. And it almost foreshadowed how they got, how they do business, how she, do you think she was trying to keep her hands clean with that whole negotiation, the way they agreed to those terms? Yeah. When Billy basically, yeah. Elizabeth goes to take care of the kids and Billy is talking to the A24 team who Billy and Elizabeth had approached about doing a documentary and Billy asks them for money to participate in the documentary, which is unusual. And some people would say unethical and then so she apparently doesn't know about it. And so he was trying to keep like a wall between them. And he says so that she wouldn't be influenced by that aspect of it, which is why you don't pay people when they participate in a documentary, but she sort of expresses that she had knowledge that he was negotiating even if she didn't know the specifics of the deal. And so that's sort of what happened with her previous relationship where she was an abusive relationship with Sonny Balwani, who also went to prison for Theranos. And he was the one who was sort of dealing with the stuff that she didn't want to deal with. She's the sort of charismatic inventor who's not actually a scientist and can't actually make any of the inventions. And then there are people underneath her who are telling her like, "Oh, actually, this idea that you had doesn't work." And she's like, "We'll make it work." And then there's Sonny and the investors, and I think that plausible deniability in a setup like that is probably often used. I doubt there's complete transparency between all departments for legal reasons in many businesses. But I don't, as far as is that a strategy that she uses in her life? It at least seems to be a blueprint that she is acting out again. What do you think Billy's angle is? There's so many theories and conspiracies out there regarding his angles, from the time he met her. He didn't know who she was. Then he figured out within the first hour. And then he's trying to use her as a pawn in his game. Is she using him as a pawn in her game? Just like, further showing that she could just manipulate men, literally. I mean, I think that they both give each other something. I think he was somebody who didn't seem to have a lot of purpose in life. And being the kind of mouthpiece and the person who is psychically getting all of Elizabeth's plans and enacting them, it's giving him an importance that he didn't seem to have. His family is wealthy. They own a chain of hotels. And they have made it clear that he's not involved in the business at all. And I don't know whether that's because of a choice that he made, or because he wasn't suited to the work. But I mean, I didn't seem like he had a lot going on. And now he is important. And it does seem like they have a connection. I find it kind of strange and toxic, but tweeting on her behalf, like, guys, I gotta head off and catch the slides, but Anna, Jimmy, and now, obviously, we can continue this conversation. You guys got to answer the stars. Topics, I hope you guys discussed with Nancy with the stars in Salt Lake City. One, what's going on with the judges? Like, how are their fours in ten? How is Connor getting a ten and Tatiana getting a four and Julia Stiles getting a four? Like, is Mark Mom not grading on a curve? Like, what is going on? It's just, it just makes the voting kind of irrelevant. But yet, it's so important. I'm confused. Val. And Carrie Ann could have had this conversation, like, again, like in an email, like, did they have to have it on camera in front of everyone to see? Like, is that performative? I don't know. How did we feel about Tyler's walkoff? Like, you know, I can say that, obviously, it's very, very frustrating when you kind of feel it. You know, you know, you're on the chopping block. And do we care that shot Tyler kind of let us in to those emotions? Salt Lake City. Here are some of the questions I have. I want to just say I like that it's a house divided. I feel like it's like the Avengers movie where like half of them are like on one team and the other. Uh, is house, is Salt Lake City become more of a costume housewives show? I feel like the outfits are getting out of control relative to the other franchises. Like, do they really go out to lunch looking like that? Or maybe like, I don't know, maybe that's just maybe I don't get the, the housewives more than the way that they do. Be careful of the swag gap, brother. I know. Only related, I, I am absolutely over, um, Whitney being like, I have a lot going on. I can't talk about it though. Like your housewife, like, and what is a lunch? going on mean. I don't know. But like, start giving. Also, it's just interesting to hear that Lisa uses apologies for currency. And I think that we've learned a lot about that because she never apologized. And she said, it's just not worth it. Anyways, I have to go, guys, I wish I could join those conversations. It was a great episode of Salt Lake City. Safe travels. Man is literally boarding his flight right now. And you're the best. Thank you so much for having me and have a safe flight. All right. Thanks, guys. Don't skip over the snack box, the United flights. They're pretty good. All right. Bye. Natalie, did you see you can see everything? I have not had a chance yet. Life's been crazy, but I am so excited to. I loved the Amanda Sifred series. It was so good. And I had never heard about Elizabeth Holmes or any of this. Like I wasn't aware of the trial or her going to put like I just didn't know anything existed. So that was my first introduction into it. And so now actually seeing her speak on it. I'm very excited for. Do you feel like she has seen the Amanda Sifred series? Can we spoil this? Um, did you go see the movie Natalie? Because that's a great question. Yeah, I'm. It's fine. Anybody who's listening to this, like do not listen to this if you have. That being said, yes, absolutely. She watches it on camera. We watch her watch it. You watch her watch it. And then it cuts to watch her watch her watch on camera. Wait, that's crazy. It's like inception and meta. It's fascinating. It's so good. Yeah. And if you've ever seen Nathan fielders like other works, specifically the rehearsal, like his whole thing is like rehearsing situations with actors playing like people, right? So the second half of this documentary after she goes to prison, he has Amanda Sifred play Elizabeth Holmes again. It's essentially two movies in one documentary. Wait, that's wild. It's the most. That's why I was like, listen, we all need to see it before we cover it. And like, what I wanted to ask you, Anna, is because like again, what Nathan is great at doing is like blurring the lines of what's real versus what's up for interpretation. If you take like a step, like a bird's eye view of this entire project, I have my thoughts. But what do you think Nathan's trying to convey by doing this documentary? Because again, he's not a traditional investigative journalist. I don't even think he is one technically. I mean, he's a, he's a performer. He's not, he's a comedian. He's not a traditional documentary. And he's not a traditional anything. He's Nathan fielder. He's like one of one. What do you think his intent was with doing this this way? I mean, I don't think they intended to do it this way. Like, I think that it evolved. Yes. And like they were, they had the option to kind of like bow out if they didn't feel like they'd gotten enough. And so they did this whole first part where it's like really strict fly on the wall documentary. Although he is more transparent than I think is usual. And it's to comedic effect that like breaking the fourth wall, showing himself, showing how like weirdly close he is to them when they're having these intimate moments and kind of like demystifying that process, which was really interesting because you're like, Oh, like these are the kind of people who are able to act this way, even when there's somebody just like hovering over them. And that's true of any documentary, but they usually don't show the setup. So you're not like, Oh, wow, that's like very awkward in a way that like, they're able to get over. But I think that like he was processing a lot, you know? It's sort of like, how do I feel about this? And then I think that this is something that happens whenever you profile somebody or whenever you write about somebody. It's like, you're complicit, both like in how you convey it to people, but also like you're participating in whatever they're putting out. So she's trying to hoodwink him or she's trying to wander her image. Like he's part of that. And then like he's also complicit in the kind of public fascination and public mythologizing of of a criminal. The lead scientist for there knows killed himself. You know, after warning her that the technology didn't work, she's on patents with him. And you know, somebody, it's just like, it's very like what she did is actually ugly and people were actually harmed in addition to the investors being defrauded. So I think that like Nathan is always like looking at his own role in everything, including like, yeah, as we said, like just kind of being a guile, I think by her whether or not it was actually like romantic. I'm so glad you said that because it feels also like a love story. Yeah. And I think it's I think so the concept. So I don't know how many of you guys are familiar with the concept of like cinema verite, which is like in documentary is essentially like there's this type of like it's reality TV producing is essentially like a version of it, right? Where it's like you have the director producer, whoever is like actively in participation with and instigating your subject. And so that's kind of what Nathan is doing. And there's discussion of like a true documentary of just like viewing something fly on the wall. And he's not doing that. And he's going in and he's poking her constantly. And you have this idea that like, he is the moral compass of this because he's the one that's like directing it, right? So you want to trust him. And then at the end, there's this reveal that she had asked him to swim in the Pacific with them. And you don't and you think he said no at the beginning. And then at the end, you realize he did. They're frallicking. They're frallicking together. They're playing mermaids. Literally. They play mermaids. And you're just like, oh, so he also has been manipulating us the entire time in everything he's been doing, which is like Nathan Fielder's whole thing in general. So it's just like this whole like extremely interesting thing on like, what is the truth? Who like, like, who do we want to believe? And like, so why do we want to know what is this about? Because there's so many different storylines interwoven into this one documentary. Like it could be a just smear campaign for Billy at the same time. It's that guy is cuckoo. But there's some people walking away from the film. Like did she do it? Did she not do like guys? She did it. Like the facts of the facts. She's going to jail. But and Anna, I like would love your take on this. I feel like in this, this is the movie of the moment. Yeah. More so, like even like obviously it's monoculture. It's the conversation we're having. But just like in the world that we are living in right now, like the feeling of being alive right now and not understanding like the concept of truth and every single like the concept of truth and accountability and all of these ideas that like people are talking about and like with the internet, anyone can say anything. And that can be someone's truth. And so like, I wonder what your thoughts are on like how this captures kind of like that feeling and what it was trying to say. I feel like she, I don't know, there are points at which I felt like she felt like she was telling the truth. Even if it was like on a technicality, I feel like she was like, I'll always be honest, even if she's not, it's funny. Like she said, we have to show them everything. I think that she was honest, but she was not forthcoming about everything. Obviously there were things like that she didn't say like again, like going back to like, I don't know. I don't know what went wrong. Who knows. But I just feel like whether or not you know something is wrong because like when it went back to Theranos, right? Like it's like, she had an idea. People were telling her it wasn't working and she wasn't accepting that. But that doesn't absolve her of responsibility, right? Like, Natalie, like if like you told advertisers, you know, for the file files, like, oh, we're getting like 300 million downloads. We can get 300 million downloads like every month. And then Mary is telling you like, oh, no, that's not possible. You can't just say like, well, make it happen. You know, right? Like there's like a responsibility that she has. And I feel like in any position of power, there are certain things that like people don't want to hear. They just want to hear like, oh, it's going well. And like obviously like President Trump, you know, thinks his approval rating is 60% and you know, it's many points lower than that. And it's like, what information is getting to people? What are people willing to accept? And then what are they willing to convince themselves is true? And then what are they willing to actually just lie about for their own purposes? And those are all going on now. And I think they're all going on in the film too. It's so interesting. It's like, I mean, you may have spoiled the whole film for me, but it has only made me want to watch it more. So like it's, you know, like this whole Amanda Cypher, I'm like, I need to see this for myself. Like a y'all are amazing storytellers and you really recapped it beautifully. But I cannot wait to watch it with my own eyes. There's so much more we didn't get into. I can't wait. Are we done? I have more questions. The second that I have a moment of free time, I will be heading to the theaters. It's out now. You can see everything. Go watch it. I know I want to, but I need to talk about dancing with the stars because it was crazy. Overall thoughts. So we had Tyler and Jackson go home. They were double eliminated. There was no elimination last week. Double elimination this week. The two bottom boys, they were out. You're crazy. They posted a TikTok about it. Of course they did. Yeah, of course they did. And what did you think of horror night? I thought it was really great. I wish that like because my understanding is that they picked the dances in the songs like they did that before that they knew who the guest judge was going to be. And I guess like Shirley is an expert in Latin. And so people like like most people were not doing her style. And so it seemed like the dances that she knew less about like contemporary. She was scoring a lot higher because she wasn't her subjective expertise. And then the ones where she was like, I know every single thing that should be happening. She was much harsher on. So that was interesting. I sort of like wish that she and this is just like fanfiction for me. But like I was like wish that she and Marquette interacted a little bit or like acknowledged the relationship. But she's a pro. But I loved it. I was like like really odd by obviously Harry and Jenna. And I'm sure that you have talked about this all time. But like, do you think it's as fun when it's somebody who is already good at dancing? And then they just get good at a different type of dancing? I don't know. I mean like it's got to be fun for the pros obviously because they're like, oh I don't have to do as much work. I feel like for us, I mean I'm obsessed with watching Gin and Dewan dance. I just think she's so she's so good and she's so beautiful. And it's like, I feel the same way about Harry. But I do see that kind of like I want you to try. It's like I want you to try harder. And it feels like you don't have to try it all. You know, like you're just so good. But I felt like I don't know. It was so good to have Val back on the dance floor. Like that dance was so insane. It was so good. I did feel like he was really nibbling on her neck. I was gonna say. Yeah. He really committed to that. This was the only one that the like specific movie reference. I have an explanation. It was zombie. So apparently he had a blood capsule and it was not going off. And then he just took it out of his mouth after him was like, well, that was a bust. So just an awkwardly long. There are a couple mouth bunkers last night. I mean, it looked it gave zombie to me. That makes more sense. For sure. Thank God he said that. Unfortunately, the context is missing for a lot. So it just looks weird. Okay. So he was supposed to be supposed to like spew blood as he was biting her neck and he was wanting that to go off. And it did not go off. I didn't hate it even that. I was like, this is working for me. Also, it was so weird watching Tatiana like rip off yawns like face. And like where did she throw that? It just like land on someone's lap. Like what was that? I loved that dance. It's I think that dance was scored so low, like for a mockers. And I guess it was a possible way. So like surely had more to say about it. But I'm just like, that was a man. Like I was so I mean, also sinners is just an incredible movie that I love so much. But like she really has just if you want to talk about someone who's just like grown and just has this like beautiful presence and start quality to her when you watch her. Yeah. You like really like just like fall in love with her when you're watching her. One thing I wonder like, I don't know whether this would make this show more boring, but I feel like it would make it more fair. If like every week there was like a everyone was doing the same kind of dance. So you could compare them to each other. But it might just be like same, same. Because I don't know enough about dance, but it would help me in comparing the dances. Everybody was doing the same dance each week. Like you go wine tasting. You want to try some of mine? But why are you like that's what I would want as a lame dance fan. I will say this week I was most impressed by Conor what that dance between you really great. It was so good. He did his big one. He really did. And there was a video of, um, glad like live watching it. And even glad was like that was really freaking good. The way he flew over that couch. Yeah, man. I'm sorry. The storytelling. It was the storytelling and that one for me. It's also like, yeah, it was really Riley did such an incredible job with the choreo. And like her performance as Annabelle, like it was that was crushed. That was spooky. Yeah. She is Annabelle. She is Annabelle. And I was, yeah, I was just really, really sold by the story of it. I felt like I was watching a, like, horror short film. Speaking of performances, I know he got sent home. I thought Jackson as the Joker, given them veneers, man, and big ass smile. Like that was perfect for him. It did. If you're going to go out on a high, like that's a great note to go out on. My big issue with Jackson stands wasn't even with Jackson. I was just like, why are there two jokers when Lady Gaga's Harley Quinn exists? What do you mean? You gotta, you gotta try. No, I mean, I get why Jackson was the Joker, but Emma, I feel like, and this is no, like, I love Emma. I think she's fantastic. She did a great job. I'm just wondering why it was not like Emma as the Lady Gaga Harley Quinn. I feel like that would have been a more interesting story to do in just because I just, this is just me as a Gaga stan. But yeah, a lot of people on the internet are talking about Tyler's kind of walkoff when he got his scores and he got, what did he get a five? He got Carrie Ann Derrick and Bruno gave him a seven and then surely gave him a five for the V&E's Waltz. It was like the second that he got that five. He just like kind of walked off. He was done. He was done. I didn't walk off camera completely, but like definitely you could see the disappointment in him. Did he appreciate that or did we feel like that was a little crybaby? I feel like it wasn't the lowest score of the night and he was one of the worst to dancers of the past two weeks. And like, I feel like it's cooler to just accept it. But I guess I appreciate how invested he was in it. And I'm sure it was like, because last week was just like so emotional and like I could see feeling like he was at the peak of his dancing with the stars last week and then going from that to like getting, I mean, a five is tough. We haven't seen a five before surely since like Guillermo. Yeah, that's true. And then but Nick did make a good point of like that is probably the second that he realized, okay, maybe I'm going home tonight. He was just like, in Tyler's defense a little bit like as a former athlete, like I know I can be a cold, like a sore loser. I don't handle losing well. And like in the moment is when you haven't been in that environment and why when you haven't taken a loss in a while, like it's hard to just like, you know, be cool, calm and collected. And sometimes you want to just be like, fuck this shit, man, I poured my heart into this dance. Like I gave him my all. And y'all know I'm not a professional dancer. Like you give me a five. Like it's I felt his pain in that moment. Now you wish he didn't throw like a little fit. But yeah, I kind of I felt what he was going through. I understand where he was going through. I think in my head, the only like, I love Tyler. That's my Florida boy. That's my hometown hero. You know what I mean? But I was just like if low key not to be that guy, but like if one of the women had like kind of had like a moment like that, there probably would have been like uproar online. Like think about the way people talked about like, um, like Whitney lassies and making a face during when Jen got eliminated. It just makes me wonder. No, but I feel like the opposite. I feel like if Julia styles would have gotten her, you know, that didn't she get a four like something. She did. She got a four and she was just gagged. She was like, uh, I think if she would have did the exact same thing Tyler did, we would have been pissed. We would have been like protect Julia at all costs. Like don't ever let Shirley Palace back in the ballroom. Like we would have been mama bears on any of the female dancers. I think it was like nice to see. I don't know us like in get like an in on that feeling because I do think that was a valid feeling of like being like, okay, now, you know, I'm done. Like I realize it. I'm done. I'm out of here. And he has loved this experience so much. I feel like every time we've talked to him, he's been like, I'm just holding on to every second I can because I don't want to go home. And yeah, coming off of last week where you like announce your pregnancy, you find out you're having a girl you like and then you get what eights. It's like he couldn't even get a nine in there. I mean, the dance wasn't incredible, but I thought it was like, I mean, it was contemporary. I don't know. It's not I feel like isn't contemporary the closest to freestyle you can get or is that stupid? Yeah. It does seem like with contemporary they kind of just like have fun and do what they want. And it's more about like emotion and like movement and like like it's very, it's very like the like Bruno exemplify. Yes. Yes. And that's how I feel like every fan should watch this show with that understanding is like is contemporary and freestyle the same thing? I don't know, but that's how like I'm doing it. The people in the comments who are like, that was that was the worst Pasta Dobley I've ever seen him. I'm like, girl, what? You don't even know what a Pasta Dobley is. I don't either. I'm not like a dancing expert. Obviously, but like when I watch it, like if it looks like easy, if it feels loose, if it feels free, even though like, you know, like they have like the lines and they have the, you know, with the Argentine Tango and they're doing like their legs. Like, like I feel good when I'm watching it. And when it feels like someone's trying really hard or it looks effortful, even though I don't know anything about dancing, it's like those are the ones I feel like they get lower scores because it's just, it's not there's no ease. I will say Jenna Dewan getting her heels stuck on her dress and kicking it off. The judges first while being like, you had a little moment right there. It's like she recovered gracefully. It was like the best recovery ever. It looked at, when I first saw it, I looked like she like stumbled on her feet. So I was glad that they called out that she actually got like tripped up in her dress, but like recovered so good. It was so weird that I felt like the judges were like critiquing her on that. Like it was her fault. Well, I thought they were like, I don't know. I thought they were like, you, you screw something got screwed up, but then you got out of it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's how I felt once I knew what was going on, like you, I was like, "What happened?" - Two Shirley Ballas' credit. She acknowledged it and was like, "I love that you got you just like the show must go on." She gave Jenna props for that and gave her a nine. So speaking of Shirley Ballas, would you think of Mark and Mora's dance? - I love Mora so much. She's been my favorite this whole time. I loved her on Love Island. I just, I love her outside of the show. And then I just loved watching her. And she's so much more athletic and like emotive and expressive and fluid than I would have ever guessed that she would have been. And then this week was I feel like, you know, it's reflected in the scores. It felt a little bit awkward. - Yeah. - Like it felt like she was a little bit less comfortable with maybe that like super expressive contemporary style. - Yeah, I totally agree. I felt like that too. I felt like, I mean, I think she is an incredible actress. Like her facial expression, she plays the part and she does it with every dance. But I do, I did feel like this one was, this felt like a first week dance. Like her nerves and her vibe. - Yeah. - It just felt like a first week. And what, like her first week is the one that was so incredible and she came out of Park Swinging. But like this, this one did feel a little weird. I wonder if, I don't know. And I saw a clip of someone asking Mark, like did everyone ask you for tips on how your mom's gonna grade everyone? And he was like, well, a lot of the pros, I guess, were trained by her, which is really interesting. But yeah, the star is like, you know, they don't know her. They don't know what she's like. And so I wonder if he was nervous, like dancing in front of her or if that got into Mara's head a little bit, of like, oh my god, your mom is here. And now she's gonna think this dance, this dance, like grade this dance super highly and got into her head, but it did feel a little weird. - I mean, she gave him a seven, not terrible, but low for Mark and Mara. But she gave some people fours. And I imagine that Shirley Ballas is a judge first and a mother second. - Imagine that too. I have a question. Was that the lowest score that Shirley gave a contemporary? - She gave Harry and Jenna's contemporary a 10. She gave Connor and Riley's contemporary an eight. She gave Jackson and Emma's contemporary an eight. And she gave more and Mark's contemporary a seven. - So even with the contemporary curve, she gave, like that was her lowest. And yeah, I wonder if she has. - She got the little shoes out too. - Yeah. - We thought Carrie Ann and Ava was a little sassy with Jenna Johnson a few weeks ago. Speaking of Carrie, I mean, like the moments in her and Val. - Interesting. - Performative. - Well, it's a performance show. You know, like the whole thing is performative. Whenever they, they pan to the couples, they're like, they're like, you know. - Even the beef? I mean, I guess. Like, it feels like they weren't proud of the beef getting to the point that it got to. So then it's like, all right. Yeah, just sweep it on the road, sweep it on the road. Don't do this part on camera then either. - It was good that they cleared the air. - Yeah, she did make a statement on Instagram if you guys want to hear it, what'd she say? She said, I've not spoke about what happened because of professional courtesy for those who are still competing and we actually have standards and practices that keep us separated. But I think part of this, quote, headline has missed a few important parts of what happened. I think it's important for everyone to know that Jenna and I hugged it out after the Super Bowl show. Jenna was an absolute professional about it and two women worked through the moment. It came to my attention that later that Jenna was deeply hurt. So I also offered to speak with her at any time. I have also offered to discuss the lift rule and how I enforce it. Charna made a great video explaining lifts, assists, and which dances allow and don't allow them. So she didn't really talk about Val, but she cleared up like the actual thing with like her and Jenna of just like the person who like was hurt. Okay, but you put it on your story and made 14 reels about the initial joke. That was a bad joke. So what do you mean? You haven't spoke about it for professional courtesy. And her reels, does she talk about like how she was feeling or what were the reels about? She was talking about like the, she posted what Val said was like thank you page six for like bringing this to my attention. Like definitely platforming it more than it already was, which I felt like put more of a spotlight on it, which she's saying she hasn't, she didn't want to do. So it's like all of this, I guess all of this feels like these people have known each other for years, for so long. And it's like all of this, I felt like could have been handled a completely different way. Totally. But like if somebody like, if like you, like two of you like had like a tip and then like somebody was like, like hosting about you, you know what I mean? Like sub tweeting you on like Instagram. I feel like you'd be like, what the fuck? Why would you do that? No, 100% I would have called Val and been like, what the fuck is going on? Why did you like, right? You know, like it feels like she's kind of his boss because it's like the judge pro. So if, you know, Val 100% like what he did was, was so messed up was not a good joke at all. Like he definitely deserves to be suspended. It was interesting that they only suspended him for a week. It seems like dancing with the stuff because dancing with the stars is such like a positive show. And the fact that this is their biggest drama is honestly like, it's kind of funny, like it's like it's a child's play at this point. And so I think like all of the kind of like artifice surrounding it kind of like what you were saying. And it just like, it makes sense, you know, it's a performative show. I look, you almost wish they leaned into it more. I wish like if y'all, since it is performance, since y'all don't have like all this. WWE. WWE, that's certainly that far. But like, you know, like making, making a thing. But then that kind of like started on this track. Like, yeah, but then I guess that's kind of unfair to Jenna Dewan though, because then she kind of gets caught up in it. Yeah, totally right. So I guess I'm trying to protect. Yeah, that idea. I'm actually talking about it. What about Sharna weighing in about the lifts? Like I feel like I was confused about the lifts. And I was curious about that. But it is interesting that she kind of like got in there and did a video about it. I think they all were like kind of, you know, talking about lifts. Or, you know, we had Max and Peter on and they spoke about lifts. It feels like there's not a complete understanding of this lift rule and didn't carry on last night. Be like, we're making a new one or something. What did she say about lifts last night? She said something about it. I don't remember exactly. She wants to make a new rule book for the lifts. Like she wants to just like make the rule clear to everyone. I would like that book because I still don't know what a lift is and what a lift isn't. And can they make the book public? Listen, I'm just, I'm just here to have a good time. My only real issue with last night was I was confused. Like I thought Ezra and Danielle were incredible. And I loved the dance. I was confused as to why they used the movie Invisible Man with Elizabeth Moss as a dance where you're centering like the guy. Because I'm like, that doesn't make sense for the movie. It's about Elizabeth Moss. That was all for me. It just didn't make like someone who liked that movie. I'm like, well, I don't like the reason it didn't emotionally land as much as people probably wanted it to is because it's about like a man stalking a woman. Yeah. But Ezra did fantastic and his leg was injured. And I think he's incredible when I love him. So that's not any tea or shade to anybody. Should we get into some Salt Lake City? Because that was also a banger of an episode. Oh, hell yeah. I mean, first of all, Lisa saying that she holds her apologies as currency and they're more than a Birken bag. Yeah, quote of the century. And honestly, like, I kind of respect it. So funny. I feel that. Lisa's having a very iconic season. And I feel like I wonder if the producers thought just like the way that the edit is playing out. They thought that people were going to respond negatively to her. Because like, I felt like that whole apology lunch with Mary. Like, I felt like it. And then like, even like the way that they're talking about it, I watch what happens live. I feel like people are like, I'm so disappointed in Lisa. I'm so disappointed she wouldn't apologize. I'm so disappointed in the hypocrisy and bullshit performance. But like, I feel like she's just being like last season was tough for her. And I feel like she's really hit her like icon stride. And I feel like Bronwyn is actually in retrospect going to be so happy that that happened. Because her party is now like part of the canon. Literally hypocrisy and bullshit. Like, are you? They want to say that wasn't an iconic song. And yet they can't keep it out of their damn mouth. It's catchy. Sorry, she had a hook. What did what did Heather say about that? It had like half a hook or something. Heather was like, it was like half a and I was like. Girl, do you understand song running structure? Just say that. Just say that Miss Heather gay. So funny. Oh my God. What are your kind of like feelings on the Meredith and Lisa kind of versus everybody else this season? Like, do you think? Do you think it's wrong that the rest of the women are kind of calling them the bullies? Or do you think that's apt? I think coming off of last season where we had the plane incident, which we still, you know, I feel like having gotten to the bottom of. And then how things ended in Greece with Meredith where I actually thought she might quit the show. Like, I think that it's good that Lisa is a close ally with her. Because even like Lisa during ultimate girl's trip, like was kind of on an island. A little bit and like the other women, especially Heather were gossiping about her to the other. Ultimate girls ultimate housewives. I don't know what we call them. The other Avengers. Yeah. The other Avengers. So I don't mind Meredith and Lisa versus the world, especially. I. is not quite doing it for me yet. I feel like she's a little bit all over the place and just sort of like testing out what might work and what alliances could be good for her. But if she sticks around, that could be a third person in their group. And also you never know because like the winds shift and like there's been apparently been a falling out. I hear between Angie and Mary. And so like Angie is clearly in a close alliance with the other women. Mary is kind of above it all, but I could see a universe in which like Mary gets close with Meredith again. Wow. I mean, I have to agree with you. Ashley Quay is not, she's not hitting it for me. Her hats are hitting it for me. Her hats are bonkers. Exactly. Exactly. The outfits are bonkers, but admitting that she lied about the Meredith thing. First of all, you didn't even say anything that bad about Meredith. You're like, I think she's talking behind my back and like one other thing. I was like, really not that bad. It's like, why lie about that? And then in her ITM, they're like, well, what did Whitney say to you at the house? And she's like, I don't want to say. But girl, give us something. What do you mean you don't want to say? Yeah, she's definitely testing the water. Yeah. And on this show, we've had a history of like people like, you know, Heather and the black guy or like, you know, Gen Chas whole situation. It's like, we have, and of course, the reality of aunties. It's like, we have a history of like kind of like hiding and doling out information. And I feel like when it happens naturally, it's like transcendent. But when it happens in the way that I feel like it's like calculated, it's like, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like it either. And then we have Mary. It feels like she's really trying to get Angie to talk about her relationship with Sean. And it's like, I guess it's hard for me because it's like, I see what Mary's doing from a show standpoint and from a professional standpoint of like, let's get Angie to talk about her marriage. But it's like the way Angie answers is so obvious that there is something going on. And you would think like, just Mary being a friend, being like, okay, I'm not going to have her do this on camera because this is clearly something that's like bothering her and in her way. But I do want to know what is going on with Angie and Sean. I totally agree. And I just feel like there's a miscommunication. I don't because I feel like Mary is all about loyalty. And like if you remember the truly incredible scene last year with the dog fart, I was laughing. I was crying. I was just like, I felt everything. But it's like, it was so like even her making a joke about Mary farting was a breach of loyalty for Mary that hurt her in a way where she was like, I might not be able to be friends with you. And was like crying for the Angie to not share her marriage stuff with Mary. I think Mary feels shut out. And Angie is trying to spare Mary because Mary already has enough on her plate. So I feel like it's just like makes signals. It makes me really sad because I love them as a friend. I also wonder because didn't originally when this got brought up on camera, it was Angie and Heather. And Angie brought it up, no, about her and Sean. I think Angie is sharing about her and Sean, but she's not sharing it with Mary because Mary is going through everything with Robert Jr. So she's like, I don't want to burden her with my marriage problems. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Which is such a like relatable friendship tip of like someone's going through something. You're also going through something. You feel like what they're going through might be bigger, stronger, more important. So you like don't talk about yours. But then that person's like, I just want to get out of my own head. Like, can you please tell me what's going on in your life? And it's like such a battle of how to navigate that. So that was like, very relatable. On a lighter note, the wine in the teapot at the beginning of the episode. The way that they edited that whole scene was just gorgeous. And it makes me wonder a very important question. What is the most fun container to have a cocktail? And like, because wine out of a teacup just feels so plant vase. Okay. I just thought of that right now. I saw that plant on the ground. I thought it could be cool. Okay. I think wine glass makes anything fun. You know, like when I when I was pregnant now that I'm breastfeeding, like just putting something in a wine glass. You're like, okay, I'm chic. You know, I'm with the rest of them. Yeah. Yeah. I think I started the box though. Well, let's get abstract. You know, like like a shoe box. That's not gonna. It's gonna. Maybe a shoe. How about that shoe? Have you all heard of like people who like drink out of their cowboy boot? Yeah. It's a shoe chug or a shoe beer, whatever. There's a. There's a bar. There's a bar somewhere in LA here. I forget what it's called. It wasn't saddle ranch that you can get beer in a boot. It's like a boot mug. And my friend got so drunk on his birthday one year. Just chugging a boot of beer. It's like a frat house thing. People will like take their shoe off like at the day part of it. I'm gonna stick with my wine glass. Yeah. I have a little tea about real housewives and unconventional vessels. Yes. So the season of ultimate girls trip that was filmed in Morocco and never aired. I was told by someone who was there that the ladies were given vodka in plastic bottles even though alcohol was not legal in the particular place where they were. Wow. That explains a lot actually. That's like what you do when you explain a lot. That's not what you do when you're underage and you like trying to sneak liquor into a festival or something you put in a water bottle. Yeah. This way kids you should put these are grown women in Morocco on a TV show in a different country. They just like us. It does make sense why that show never got aired. Well, maybe someday, you know, maybe do you have any more inside scoop on that because I want to hear more about why I didn't get aired and it is everything. I've heard a lot about that trip and I'll be surprised if it sees the light of day, but you know, maybe that and the Taylor Frankie Paul season will they just go down in history as something that will never lost files lost media. Yeah. What's that like being in your in your shoes? Sorry if I'm losing the plot here, but like I feel you probably have so much information you have to hold near and dear to your heart and like you have to be very careful that it never gets out there. Like you share with the right person. What's that kind of like? I mean, it's fun. Is it a lot of pressure? No. I mean, it's it's pressure to be accurate and to make sure that you're not sharing ever information that's not true or that's harmful to somebody and that you're honoring the agreements that you make with subjects like about their privacy and about what's off the record and what's on background, which means it's something that you can say but you can't say who said it. But yeah, there there are some things that like you just like know and that were off the record stories and they're just like the greatest things. You're like, I wish I could tell everybody because it's crazy. And then sometimes something happens off the record or you hear a rumor and then somebody will say it later. Like the Kimberly Gilfoil story in the Daily Mail where her former colleague alleged that Kimberly was had like a unique filing system where like she would pair pictures of men with credit card numbers. Like I had heard that before, but obviously I could never share that because it wasn't so you feel like so validated when that gets out. Are you like that? I knew that or like I should have been the one to spill that like I should have broke the news. Well, it's like you always need a second source for something like that when someone tells you off the record. But that I was like both of those things felt all those feelings. I feel like Angie should take like notes from you Anna because her being like the whole recording thing. First of all, saying recording around this group of women, they all just like freaks. Saying that the whole Whitney thing of Whitney being like don't worry no one's recording us. Go you're on camera. Yeah. Like that is the thing that breaks my brain so much. I'm like often with these shows like oh you're ignoring all the Bravo production that's right there pointing these cameras and you're okay sure we can pretend the fourth wall exists. And then like I would never I would never say that about like I would never take our conversation here and tell somebody else as if the conversation isn't being filmed for everybody to see. I'm just like it's so much of that. Wish smarter than that. We know. But these are being like I didn't say recording and it flat goes the flashback. It's like she has security cameras everywhere. Anna, what are your thoughts on on the influencer journalists? People like you know me I guess who we don't break news or break stories, but like we chime in often. If you're curious and you're trying to find out what's actually going on and you're not spreading misinformation, I love it. Like that's great. Like I think like the problem can be when people either have somebody on who says something and this what they're saying is incorrect and there's nobody who knows and can actually like get the right information out there. So people take it and they're like oh this is a fact. I don't know like that's probably the biggest issue, but I love I love people when they're asking questions and not like you know just asking questions way, but like a genuine like I really want to know. I love that. If it truly comes to play security, okay that makes me feel better about it. Well Anna, we enjoy your take so much. We're so glad you came back with us. Please join us again. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Well obviously we're missing some of Nick's hot takes. We got a few of them while he was boarding the plane and that is a glimpse of what it's like to be inside an explain. It's just like chaos at all time, but we'll get into those later for now. Now we know you guys are loving wankas, the golden ticket, and we brought back some of the finalists to answer some of your lingering questions. So let's give them some more love and get right into that. That is up next. Thank you, Anna. Hello. We have got the finalist and their partners from wankas, golden ticket, joining us today. We've got Mishon, we've got Garrison, we've got Bryce, we've got Sasha, and we've got Gabrielle. Unfortunately, Taylor could not be with us. She got called into work. Is that right, Bryce? Yeah, that is right. This morning, I mean, kind of just last minute stuff, so, but it should be good. That's okay. We'll miss her. We'll miss her. Holded down, Bryce. I got this. Well, how is it going? How are you guys doing? Great. Doing well. A lot has happened. A lot has changed since the season finale. It's been a whirlwind, but enjoying it all. Good. Gabrielle, welcome back. How are you doing, honey? I'm feeling great. Thanks for having me back on. Good. Good. Well, first of all, I just want to ask, we talked to Gabrielle before, but I would love to get y'all's takes on just how insane this set was. It looked incredible from watching it. It was incredible. Like, everything you guys saw as a viewer, we saw in real life, and like, you could touch everything. You'd eat everything. Everything was extremely colorful, like, every visual aspect of the show was just so whimsical and you could literally, like, the fact that we could eat a marshmallow, but, like, chair. Yeah. There was a lot of things, I mean, going into that factory, I mean, they called a mean shot of me violating that gummy bear, but it was worth it. And other than that, it was extremely enjoyable. Was there anything that you wanted to try that you didn't, Mishan, how about you answer that one? Well, first of all, I would have to talk for my emotional side, because, you know, I'm the oldest one on here, and so I went way back when I, when I got, I walked into the factory. It took me a while to just grasp everything. I went back to like, walk of being there, you know, and I checked out everything. It was just like the factory. I tried quite a bit of everything, candy apples on my favorite, so, you know, that's what I was pretty much, you know, working on. I was watching Garrison eat the gummy bears and, you know, everybody was eating the grass and stuff, but I was still working on the candy apple, so, you know, I tried pretty much everything. Oh, wow. That is wild. Question that I have not been able to stop thinking about since watching this show. But exactly did the grass taste like for anyone that ate it, and what was the experience like of being able to eat candy grass? Macha. Honestly, the candy grass wasn't my favorite, to be honest. It was like a string, like the sour punch, you know, strings, but it was filled with like, it tasted like gum, but gum that was chewed so long that it just starts to disintegrate in your mouth. Okay. Oh, okay. That's also the texture of the grass for me. It was okay. I finally tracked grass, actually, you did. I liked it. I mean, I like chewed up gum that's disintegrated, a little sour, a little sour, a little sweet. I thought it was great. I thought it was really, really good. I'm not going to lie. I could eat that all day. I like the mushrooms. I like the mushrooms, but all that creamy stuff, yeah, that was good. You could take the topping and put on something else. I thought that was really cool. Oh my gosh. That's so jealous. It's so jealous. Gabrielle, I have to know, how do you know Snoop Dogg? Oh, that was what I was up to. I got called to set randomly one day by a casting company that I signed up for when I was in college, and I never got cast for anything by them. And I was in the shower and I get out and I get a call from some random number, and obviously I answered it. So then I answered the phone, they're like, can you be in downtown LA in an hour, fully glam hair, ready, done for a music video? I was like, ugh, I just got out the shower, and I said, yes, I didn't even know whose music video it was. I was just like, let's just do it. It's work. So I pulled up to set. It's this cool warehouse situation, and I'm asking the other people. I was like, hey, I just got called in today. You guys know who this video is for. They're like, no, we're not sure. We're not sure. I'm sitting on set and in walks Snoop Doggie Dog. I can hear his voice in the hallway. I said, oh my gosh. There's no way I'm doing a video with Snoop right now. And I was next to him the whole video. I was like pretending to bartend. We were talking about it. Wow. That's awesome. That's cool. That is pretty cool. He commented on our real review. So we were like, oh my gosh. Best the alert. I guess. Cool. Well, speaking of best you, Sasha, y'all have been best friends for what is like 21 years forever. So, y'all are basically sisters. How did it feel watching Gabrielle win? Honestly, it was like a surreal feeling. We didn't know what happened. I literally once I missed the gumball, you don't know anything. You don't even have an idea who's still in. You don't know anything. And next thing I know, Bryce and I are just like in vlog a vision. And we're like, what are you doing? And then the TV turns on and you see Gab up there in her pink jumpsuit and Taylor up there. And I'm like, oh my gosh, she did it. I knew she was going to do it. And then the jury starts and I'm like, oh. And then, yeah, Bryce and I were like trying to support each other, but we're also cheering for our partners. There was like a moment in there. And then we actually get pulled out. So we don't know who's voting for who, the guessing game, they didn't let us watch it. So then we go outside and Bryce and I have no idea what the count is. We don't know the game's going on. They pull us in and all we see are both their numbers being like the same. And then Bryce and I look each other and it's like whoever's name is on the back of that last one. And if they're right, like that's who wins. And so we're again, then again, standing there like, oh my gosh, and they don't know where they're. We're hiding. And then they turn it around and see Gabrielle's name and then I sprint it up there. And I was like, oh, my. So I'm using feel like, I mean, like what was the first thing you'll do to celebrate when you got back home? You went to the casino. Oh, well, that like that story, actually, if you want to start on that story, yeah, no. The whole crew after the show, we went to the casino in Australia because it was the only thing open past 12. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we had a good time. We had fun. But when we touched back home, I was back in Orlando and she was in California. So we just kept in contact trying to reminisce everything that we just went through. And now have no footage or video of. So we're like, what actually happened in there? Was it real? Is that what you mean? Sasha, do you have like a gift idea that Gabrielle is going to get you with all of her prize money? Is it like a Birken bag? Is it a diamond necklace? Like what do we think? Yes. No. No, not yet. We're gonna see. We'll see. We live yellow. So we'll see how that. Yeah, surprise. Okay. I don't know. I see a Birken would be nice. Yeah. No. Birken was nice. I'll pull a rob. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Bryce, what was it like having seen Taylor in the finale? Oh, I mean, it was, it was very surreal. I couldn't believe it because when I walked in and I saw Sasha, I was like, well, this is kind of weird. You know, it was only two of us. And I was like, are we still in the game? That was like kind of my question. I was like, uh, no, we're definitely not in the game. Yeah. I didn't know what to think. Yeah. So I mean, I started like pacing. I don't know. And I get all like worked up or excited. I just start pacing. I mean, this should have done time lapse of like all my footsteps. Quite room. Can I just add real quick? Like, the Wonka vision is like, everything is white. The floor is white. Everything. And Bryce had his like cowboy boots on the whole ground was black. The whole. Yeah. I was drawing in there. I was drawing with my boots like it was pretty bad. I was getting all worked up. But, uh, when that screen came on, I was, I was like blown away. I was like, Oh my god. Like, she actually did it. Like, she's, she's in the finale, the actual finale, the championship, whatever you want to call it. So I got really all worked up. I was all excited. My heart was pounding. And me and Sasha are there. And like she was saying, is that we're supporting each other the whole time through? Because I mean, we're all really good friends until this day. We all are. I mean, I have no bad blood with anybody. I mean, I grew more than just throughout the game myself, but I made a lot of relationships with everybody. And now that, you know, I feel comfortable calling like my family because they are real genuine people that I would like to spend the rest of my time with. I mean, I mean, amazing people. But scene Taylor up there overall was, it was great. I don't know. Just, just words cannot describe how proud I was of Taylor and how proud I was of Gabby and Gab. I think Gabrielle. Get the right one. Get the right one. I'll get the right one. Yeah. I got you. Oh, I'm sorry. No, I got, I got, I was just super excited. I mean, it was, it was insane. She said she was going to go all the way. And my goal was to get it all the way. Because really, I mean, it was really her ticket and her doing of getting us on the show and all that. So I was like, I got to just work all this for her and do this for her. And yeah, no, I'm just super proud and yeah, no, I would do it all again if I could. What was that like being the only romantic couple in the game? Like you said, you learned a lot about yourself. Did you learn anything more about her? Did your relationship go stronger? Do you guys get into it at all at any point? I mean, you're in a relationship. I mean, you're going to get into it no matter what, I mean, that's just reality, right? I mean, you're going to, you're going to go through the ups and downs and you just got go through it and fix whatever comes your way. But honestly, coming out of it, we've been stronger, learned a lot about each other. And I mean, it's a good story to tell, say if we do have kids, it's a good story to tell our kids. And just really, it's just growth. I mean, we did, I mean, you know, see us bickering at each other for a little bit there. And it was, I mean, it was just, I think we're overall just tired and just exhausted. We're there with each other 24/7. No space, no privacy. But I mean, again, it's a relationship. If you love each other, I mean, you're going to have ups and downs and you just got to be there for each other and just get through it. So honestly, I think overall, yeah, it's made us stronger, learn a lot about each other. And yeah, we're just moving forward and moving stronger. So speaking of relationships, I would love to know how all of your relationships with candy has changed since competing on this show. I imagine it's like, do you have like a traumatic relationship now? Is there stress response? What's going on? I'm on a diet. Yeah, it's different. Cool. Because every time we had a meal, like we had a sweet tooth afterwards. So we would just eat something sweet afterwards. So coming back to the world, every time I ate a meal, I needed to have something sweet. So that was a little hard to come back. But it became a hard way. That was really hard to break. I don't think it broke in the habit. Honestly, it's been there my whole life. You saw the pantry, right? The pantry was full of everything. So a lot of them back there right after they ate. And I just watched them eat it. You know, because what happens is when you start eating it, you can't stop. Yeah, that's true. That sugar. Yeah, they would feed us like three meals a day. And then obviously you got the late night munchies. So you would just get that pantry. You're looking for something a little bit more sensitive, like maybe like just a peanut butter and Jay, but there's literally just gummy bears. There's straws like the grass. And I just like, come on, I need something a little bit different. So we just started doing rice cakes and cream cheese. The sugar high must have been crazy. Rice cakes and cream cheese. Yeah, it was a struggle meal. I'm just the yuck. I already can't eat it. Whatever. I mean, think about you're eating chocolate non-stop. You know, you're crashing. You know, you're up. You're crashing. You got the nerves moving. I mean, besides everyone's not eating a lot because in the beginning of the day, we don't know what challenge is happening. In the beginning of the day, you're waking up to Wonka saying, Wonka radio. And then there's a riddle. So everyone, Gabby Sasha, my mom or non-stop talking about what this riddle might be. And at a point, they were wrong every single time. I was like, I can't deal with y'all. I'm moving. I'm going to the room and I'm just going to just be in center myself in whatever is about to come my way. But yeah, they were a mess. Yeah, no, it's Harrison would always be so funny. He would just look over and see us three talking. He's like, I don't even want to join that. I didn't want to know. He already knew what was going on. I mean, with fitness and consciousness into a challenge, it was like, what was going on here? You know, so we learned and learned quick. You had to be ready to go at all times. Even the twisting on the, um, oh, yeah, the, the, the licorice one. We had just eight before that. Yeah. That like, that's not a problem. Given Ava just threw up on this turnie challenge. Yeah, Bryce is going through it. I'm like, I'm not eating before, you know, that of the night. Yeah, does he specifically diabolical to have these like very physical challenges while you are like eating candy constantly? Yeah. That's good pre-workout, what you mean? Yeah, instead of a Celsius and three square meals. Okay, three square meals. We can have energy drinks on the show either. Like, that was a thing. So we couldn't have energy drinks. Did you feel like you needed an energy drink? Not even like a coffee? No. Oh, coffee? Yes. I was going to say, I have to quit. It's a weird stipulation where we cut it. It wasn't like any good coffee. There was like, it was tea bag coffees. Yeah. I was just drinking straight electrolytes. Well, before we get into anything else, I do want to acknowledge the passing of grandma, Adele. We were so sad to hear about that. How are the two of you doing? Yeah, it's, it's been tough. It's just tough from me. My mom lived with me. So it's been really hard and I had those moments, but you know, she knew we were going on the show. You know, she knew all about it. We couldn't wait to get home and like, you know, talk about it with her because she was always in the mix, you know? Yeah. So it was a, it was a very, it was a, it was sad, you know, we were trying to make it through the, you know, the whole filming and everything and get home, but, you know, she, she got, she made it. She got on the film and I mean, she got on a golden ticket, you know? So that is a blessing in disguise. And you have, I love you, Garrison, forever memorialized on a show. What does that mean to you? I mean, that's my, that's my best friend. I mean, I grew up with her. Obviously, live with us, my entire life. We were watching these game shows together and we would stay out late at night and just be me and her talking literally anything chaos. And to have her say I love you was truly amazing. Obviously, I'm her favorite. So she wouldn't have done it for anyone else. And I say that on my videos, you know who your favorite is. It was like truly special. And every time I watch the video back, I'm by myself and tears. And I keep her picture right on my nightstand and night. And that's my best friend. So then I'm going to make her proud no matter what I do. Yeah, you definitely are. That's so beautiful. I love that. And then obviously the two of you were just adored and loved by everyone on set. The entire audience loved the two of you. I mean, just you must have known going in, Garrison, like you're my mom. Everyone's going to love my mom, right? That's why I brought her in, because you're like, I'm going to be a little tough rigid around the edges, you know? But my mom makes me soft when I'm with her. And everyone always says, oh, I wish she was my mom. I wish she was my mom. Like, no, she's my mom back up, you know? That's a true mom was boy. I was always going to pick my mom. And she was also, she was taking care of my grandmother 24/7. And I was just like, you know, this is our favorite movie, truly. And to just have a moment where she's not thinking about everything else that's going on in the world and with her life to give her this special moment in time, where we can just be together was like, that's all. Even though I was talking, I was thinking about winning that $3 million not stop. I wasn't trying to enjoy myself, but like I'm like, focus G. Lock in. How did it feel to come so close? Top three. How'd it feel? Oh, don't even bring it up. Yeah. Sorry. Top three, not number one. The number five still haunts me. It was tough, but yeah, we're getting through. We're going to make $3 million another way. Believe it. That is a beautiful mindset. Sean, I know you were a basketball player in college. I was just wondering if you felt like that, if you felt any of your like old basketball skills coming back as you were like partaking in these challenges. I was having a great time when I saw, I saw that freebies. I was like, it's an island. Oh my gosh. You don't know how I, I felt so like happy, but nervous. It's almost like, you know, you're going out on the court and like being my age, that went out the window. I had freaking didn't care how old I was. I watched and I'm a visual learner. I saw Jackson and Garrison went before me. I saw the people on Gabby and Sasha's team. I said, well, you know, and Bryce, Bryce, you're killing it and Garrison. But one of that slides, you know, I picked up from when I saw Garrison and I'm going up. So when I went up, I just figured it out real quick how to get up that spot. Yeah. And I just thought, but yeah, you know, it does pay to like, you know, have some athletic abilities. I guess, you know, I was still catching my breath and my mom was already coming back down. I said, what? Mind you, that was filled with, it was Lou in glucose. When I say was slippery, I could not like, I was using my face at points trying to get up that thing. So it wasn't honey. It was crazy. It was nasty. It was tough. And then pumping that thing. Oh, my God. I was a little out of shape at the time. I was cooked. So the slide wasn't honey. No, no, it was glucose and Lou, like, just slipping everywhere. Yeah. Slip a slide just coming down. Yeah. So it was like sticky. Yeah, the sticky. He was sticky. It was hard. It was weird. Okay. It started it started to lock up on your skin afterwards. And then you're just like, oh, wanted a part. It was crazy. It's sticking to your skin. Wonka put y'all through the ringer. My mom was going to be a sweet too. And, and the sweet was just going to be up in the honeycomb. And we're going to go get her. And then she said, I didn't, we didn't talk about it. All she said, I can do it. I said, Oh, yeah. You're going to do it. It was like locking and then we just looked at each other. It was like, you know what to do. Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm obsessed with that. If we made some changes when we got there, what were the changes that you made? Oh, when we got there, we realized it was more physical than anything. And we were trying to get Tatum and her mom to go up into the to the little cubbies up there. And we were going to have Everett pump, you know. And they were afraid that if one would go with, they were both of them. that they would be eliminated together. So Tayden was saying to her mother, "I can do it, I'm strong, I can do it, you go up." And that's how that sort of angle, that's how we ended up, but Everett never got to pump. So, you know. - That was our kind of like being on the other team. Like we didn't know who everybody was gonna put up in their teams. So once the honey, people like one, two, three showed who was in the honeycombs and who was pumping. I have to say like we were both surprised that Everett wasn't pumping because he's so athletic. We knew that he was a vocal teacher and we knew that he was athletic, so that took us by surprise that he wasn't one of the staff. - I imagine you had to kind of change and adapt on the fly, not knowing kind of what you were getting yourself into. - Over time, all the time. Like Sasha's famous quote. He always, "Wanca always has a twist," and that is true throughout the entire show. - You gotta be on your toes at all times. - Yeah, all times. - Good Lord, we'll miss on you. Unfortunately got eliminated by Kayla because she picked Ava over you. How did that feel in the moment? - My mind was all over the place. I was looking at Kayla, like what are you doing? I was just taking a back because I'm looking at Hunter, like Hunter, you know, how are you? How did you do this email? I'm like, it was just in the house talking about her and like, wanted her out. You know, before he went, he was, I think I was going to the ladies room or whatever he goes showing, you know. Kayla's talking about Sasha and Gabby and wants them out and how they're trying to run the house. I'm like, really? He goes, "Yeah." I was like, "Oh, okay." And then before we got to the game, Kayla spoke to me about, "Hey Sean, you know, how are you with Riddles?" And I'm like, "I'm good." But we had spoke before that. And I was telling her about, you know, your dad wants to retire, I want to retire. You know, my mom is ill. I wanted to be home to take care of her. I mean, you know, I had things I had to do at my house. You know, it was just catching up. And so the money meant a lot to me. You know, she knew that. So when we got there and it was time to like, you know, make a selection who you're going to take out with you and that was a twist in itself. Nobody was supposed to go out but the captains. So when Blanca came on and said, "You got to take somebody with you." You know, I felt really bad because there was no like outlet for me to like even do a challenge to like stay in. But she, you know, she took me out with all that I told her. And it was just like a sad time because I was really getting into the game. So I really was enjoying myself. I think I would have had a chance to go towards, you know, to the end with Garrison, or at least Sean, my best. And yeah, I don't know where her head was at. I knew that I was telling Garrison before we went there to, you know, Kayla's all over the place. She's, you know, she's not there. You know, she's like a loose cannon. So, you know, when she did that, yeah, that I got the brunt of that. - I'd say that too. For a person who calls herself a strategic player, she was very erratic about every decision she's made. Hence why no one wanted her in the house at that point. And then for me, let's back it up a little bit in the beginning of the game. I feel like in games like Big Brother and Survivor, somehow the minorities always get pinned against each other. And I told her, I didn't want that to happen here. And she was like, you know what, we're good. We're good money, no worries. And then a fast forward, my mom's over here fighting for her life. And then being vulnerable to her, like my mom's the toughest person ever. For her to, for me to see her at a vulnerable point. And she's shown no empathy at all. Really just took them by surprise. And then even after the fact, after the whole thing was finished, she came in to apologize. But then I go on with social media and she's liking messages, saying, "Effosop story" or "I don't want to hear that." So it's just blatant disrespect knowing the situation my grandma has passed. You know why we're here for, we're never ill attention at all. So I'll just leave that where that is. - Why do you think she chose Ava? - She had no stake in the game. I don't know why she chose Ava. - Really, still this day, it makes no sense to me. 'Cause you have one chance to show empathy and do a good deed before you left knowing that you smashed every different challenge. You couldn't easily took out Hunter because he took out your father. But instead, you go for Ava, which just makes no sense to me. Even during the challenge, she's saying, "I'm not really for her." Playing the same exact game, just getting both of them, just playing the same game, getting played at the same time, which is crazy. I also feel like I heard Kayla's side of it, like she was playing strategically. Like, she thought Ava was playing a stronger game than Sean and that's it. But it was crazy that that was her reasoning because we just saw Sean physically able to do more, better than I think 90% of the people running up that honeycomb. We just saw that she's physically able to. We could tell Sean was counting everything, getting all the rules right. So we knew she was smart enough to do anything that it came to the numbers. Anything to do with that. So if she was going to take out, keep the person who was playing the strategic game. Sean was one of the strongest players. Gerson, I know you're the strong left guy, but your mom had everything. She got the riddles front. She got the fitness down. She showed those two. So that was a surprise to me that her angle was, I'm taking out the one that's not playing. When Sean was literally the one that showed that she's strong and shows-- with playing the game, exactly. I was always supposed to come in the game and be the shield for my mom because I know what this means to her and our family. And whatever I could do to make that happen for her, I just wanted my mom to win. Like, they weren't thinking through family over everything, but I always wanted people around me that are close to win. Well, you raised a good boy, Michonne. It was tough coming up with Gerson. He's all out of mail, all out of mail. And the time he was five, all right? He would only listen to mail the mail, OK? Mom would say, come here, Gerson, get us some beat, you know? But he had it together. That's it. You know, but it took some hard work that he managed. And I'm really proud of him. Yeah, he's a good guy. We came a long way. Long way. Long way. Going back to Ava for a second, did you guys watch it back and see that she was kind of doing the quote-unquote putting on a performance part of the show? And I was just wondering how you guys read that and felt about that. I don't think she was putting on a performance. She was just being her. And especially after the game, we all hung out or whatever met up afterwards. And I don't think there was any performance. Everybody was pretty chewed at their characters. So like, I wouldn't say there-- I mean, yeah, I didn't see a performative side that was different than in real life. They were very similar people. I feel like the way she thought she was portrayed in the show was different from what she actually is. But I thought it was pretty on par. I didn't think of anything bad. You know, that's just how she played the game. I don't think she's a bad person by any means. But that's just who she is. And it was captured on film. I think she did what she had to do. And when she went to Kayla, and she put her hands around her neck. And she said, you know, I'm going to pull your legacy ahead. There was something she played to her ego. Kayla's ego. And that's what Kayla needed. That's the type of person she is. And I didn't do that because I-- she asked me a question. I told her what truthfully, where I was there. But that wasn't even in her conversation. It was about Kayla. And so that's why Kayla picked her. Well, did you all believe any of her tears? No shot. No, gosh. First of all, she was the loudest one in that place. So the point was like, we got to get her out. Just all the fact that we can't sleep. Because she's like, she was just-- I have no idea. She was just hysterical all the time for no reason. I was like, can you just relax, please? Please. Dasha, was that hug between the two of you? Was it as awkward in real life? As it was, watching it as a viewer? Yeah, I think reality TV, like, the first reactions to things, like, they were real. Like, that was just our initial reaction. And like, that was 100% real. Like, we were both like, W-T-S. Like, what are you? What do you think? Ossetie. Aunt, hide, I add. That wasn't the first time she did that. In the Honeycomb Challenge, when I slid down, Stosh, like, Kayla came down to hug me first. I said, whoa, yeah. It wasn't the first time. It was just a crazy thing. Because we're like, I feel like there's certain things that, in one, because game, there was nothing that was common sense. This was a common sense moment. Like, we were going to hug first. It was like, you've just been in game. Why would I even want to be near you right now? Like, yeah, same as Bryce. Like, the last thing we wanted to do was be near Kayla that night. I was like-- Yeah, when she pulled a thin, I was like, oh, yeah. You're done. You're done. That's it. I mean, that was the last straw. [LAUGHTER] I was terrified in that room, dude. It was terrible. Do you got the little bit of a bend in the corner? Nah. Nah. Ben just stand you down. I was just like, geez, that was intense. Yeah, and then one thing they didn't show in the Jellybean game is, like, Bryce and I kept talking. tying and then Poppy and Zeyard kept tying. So it was, it seemed like there was lots of games with each other views. But the frustration was also there because we're like, and we both wanted, I was rooting for Bryce to say Bryce was rooting for me to stay and we both kept losing each other. We kept getting the same number. So obviously we lose the game when that happened. So it was a lot of tying going on. - Well Bryce, what was going on in your head? What were you thinking when Taylor was chosen over Ava in the walk ofator challenge? - I didn't really worry when they were doing the votes and all like, I had a feeling that, you know, Taylor was on their good sides of Gabrielle and Harrison and everyone in the, in the elevator there. But my overall thought was like, man, like if you don't get out, like, I got my card here and I was like, well, I was like, I'll just give you the card. And, but I mean, I felt great knowing that she was on everyone's good side and that we could, we keep going, being as a parent stuff. And, but no, I was just a little worried 'cause I didn't know in that time and moment 'cause it's a long day too. And it's like, well, are we all still good? Or like, is Taylor still good with everybody? Am I good with everybody? - Have we pissed anybody off? - Yeah, exactly, exactly. You don't know because, mm-mm. Everyone's thoughts and minds and everything that whatever they're thinking changes every day. I mean, I thought changes every day and you don't know what to think with another person. 'Cause again, they, you don't know. You don't have their brain. You can't read their mind. So, it's very difficult on that fact. But I was just grateful in the fact that we're still on everyone's good side. I mean, I think we played a great game of just, I mean, we stayed a lot of the drama and a lot of the bad and just, you know, we just really had a good time with everybody. And I think that's what helps us out throughout the whole, the game. - Garrison, did you appreciate Ziad sticking up for Sean during that decision? - I even apologized to Ava before we even left the elevator. Did I appreciate it? I wouldn't have went at her the way. I just asked a simple question, right? But I stayed calm, level-headed when I asked the question, what was said in the fact in the licking challenge for you to get picked over my mom? And I think that was a valid question 'cause I don't know, right? And, you know, Ziad and Ziad fashion had to step in because he also has a vendetta against Ava and just was coming at her crazy. Do I appreciate it? There's two answers to the sword. Yeah, you kind of pushed the envelope to what, I wanted an answer, what she wanted to answer, but nah, I don't think it was necessary. I could have just handled it by myself. - What are your thoughts on his gameplay throughout the entire experience? - Look, you know, Ziad, you can call him whatever he wants and I'm sure he'll probably say the same thing about my game, but at least I knew where he was thinking, right? There was a lot of chaotic people within this game, a lot of people who kind of kept themself, not sure what their thoughts were in regards to everybody else. Ziad was one who shot everyone straight and I appreciated that in the game 'cause I can manage that in the game where I don't know what tomorrow looks like. So I appreciated on that front where we were able to work together. I know where it said that and he said, "Garrison, we're cool all the way up until we can't be cool anymore." Hence, why I took a shot at him because we were getting to the end and I wanted him gone. Backfire 'cause of Gabby, you're truly, but yeah, I respected the way he played, but you know, some of the things that he said and how he approached situations, I don't agree with. I would have not have done that. - Well, I think maybe we should just get into the whole Ziad of it all. Shouldn't we, you know, maybe unpack some of that a little bit? I am curious, Gabrielle and Sasha, y'all were betrayed by Ziad and Austin. I guess were you expecting that betrayal? What was kind of your gut reaction to that? - I think not that soon. I think we thought we had some whatever mutual understanding like, okay, maybe we got them in the bag. Like maybe this playing nice guys working. - Or wrong, but I didn't think, yeah, I didn't think that they were gonna switch up that suit or show their cards that early. - Yeah, I think also like the game had so many twists and turns in 'em. But the fact that the obvious, you know, they were the strongest, like it's obvious, they look the strongest, they are the strongest and everybody else kind of Gab's stronger. But like it was an obvious understanding that if we're gonna put ourselves up in the honeycombs, for both of you to show your strength to the world, you know, it's global, like that we were like, yeah, you're gonna, we know you're strong, you wanna show your platform. They are fitness trainers. Like let's let them show their, you know, life on TV. In return, we must be out in one, two, three. - Yeah. - At first, at first. - And when that didn't happen, like the moment I saw Taylor coming out of the honeycombe, I just so can be. - I was like, Gab, are you in there? 'Cause you could hear like very barely us in the honeycombe. And she's like, "Yeah, I'm in here." And I'm like, "So am I." And then if we're confused and then I look at Bryce and he's like, and I'm like. (laughing) And then from-- - I got to. - Yeah, and then he like slates the game. And then I get to the bottom and I'm like, "Oh my God, now, now Gab's gotta be next." And then Bill runs up and I'm like, who did that? - Taylor, the fact that who let her be saved before Gab and that's what got us kind of irritated. It's like, Bryce made an agreement to save Kayla over Gab in this situation. And then you were like, I turned to Garrison who was standing there. He was looking at me because I'd like fire out in my yard. (laughing) And he was like, "You good?" And I was like, "Oh." And then that moment on Ziad came up to us at the end when we were doing that group huddling. He was like, it wasn't anything. It was just the buttons were too high, too short, that you guys get it, right? You guys get it. (laughing) We're like, "No." - And then, and then he's like, "Gab, I'm giving you." - And this guy running you with the gold skirt. - I'm giving you this gum. - I'm sorry. - And then it was weird because then it cuts the interview and he's like, "I played them." - Yeah, literally. I was just giving you this out of pity, basically. - Yeah, do you feel like he was trying to win your trust back? - Yeah, of course. - Of course. - Well then, it would've been like, why didn't we both get the gum? - Like, if you're right. - Like, it was just a weird, they didn't, they were thinking like, I don't know what, we couldn't figure out their strategy. And if they were trying to get back on our good sides, then give us both the gum, not Austin the gum. - Yeah, it was a clucker of just miscommunicating and not sticking to the original plan because other people started to get into the plan and then it just ended. - Yeah, we just, we could've heard the conversation because we never, we didn't hear the order that they were gonna run up and pick us out of the, kind of comes. We wish we could hear the conversation that Austin, Deon and Bill had that let him go third. - Yeah, go third. - Bryce, you and Ziad seem cool. Like, y'all had a friendship, somewhat of an alliance. What are your thoughts, Honest? - Ah, so Ziad, as an overall person, love the guy. He's a great, like Jared's gonna say and he's a very straightforward dude. He's blunt, he's honest, which, again, I respect that as well. It's very easy to work with something like that instead of someone that you can't tell what they're thinking. Now, in this challenge, I mean, he did come down after when he hit the button. And I even thought he went for Sasha's 'cause I think Sasha wasn't even meant to go for you. - At this point, it was either them could go for either of us. - Yeah, okay. So, well, I think it was supposed to be Ziad for Sasha and then I was gonna go for Taylor's second, but Bill interrupted and he was throwing a hissy fit on the little pad there. He was like, freaking out for no reason. And I was like, you better haul ass, dude. And he's like, I got you, I got you. And then he got all mad at me and that kind of, yeah, that whole relationship with Bill went down the drain really quick. But, so I was like, all right, like whatever. Well, then when I saw Ziad, I got Taylor. I was like, well, who did you have Ziad? And he's like, I had Sasha. I was supposed to get Sasha. I honestly think he, I don't know. I don't think he really meant to hit the wrong button. I think he was just like in a rush. And I, I don't know the way he came down and then he looked back and he's like, I got Taylor and I was like, what? What? But I don't know if everyone exactly saw that on the film and everything, but no, you see, you just seem confused because the plan was for me to get Taylor. He was supposed to get Sasha. And then Bill was having to say his fit again. So, I mean, overall, I think he was just confused. Yeah, Bill, Bill that guy, I mean, I mean, I was trying to make a relationship with him, but I just, I just couldn't connect with the guy at all. He just seemed so out of it. Well, do you still talk to Ziad? Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I saw all of y'all kind of went out after the show. Why was Ziad not there? I mean, he kind of does his own thing. Same with Austin, they both kind of do their own thing. So, I mean, and touch wise, like, give him the call or text. I mean, they're always there, but overall, I think they're just really busy with their own business stuff and what they got going on. But, again, I think they're both great people. I think everyone on the show here, I mean, it was really hard to be like, having a problem with somebody because everyone was so good to each other and like, we all treated each other very well until obviously, I mean, well, Taylor, but. Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. But other than that, I mean, there was there was no no problem with anybody even like outside the show now It's like everyone I'm cool with like I have no problem. Everyone's my friend. So I had to say what they when I was there And I was talking I started developing a relationship with Z. I'd you know We would talk he was telling me about a lot of things about his girlfriend and all this and yeah I seem like a really sweet guy and then when I left I said what happened? I don't I don't know what happened So and they even went out after you know the show was over within everything and I didn't Know all the stuff that took place until I saw it on the golden ticket But you know, I guess you know the game really pulls you in some kind of way and it makes you do crazy things because You know depends on what's direction you're looking is it all the money or is it all you know? How you want to be portrayed? I don't know, but you know he was definitely a controversial character for sure Yeah, yeah, I was I'm sure he's probably reflecting now. I know before When we met up he's he's actually having a baby soon as well So those probably part of the reasons why he hasn't been around as much But I know he's getting a lot of heat online. So you know I I won't even when it comes to Kayla I'm not want to drag anybody Because the internet is a place where a lot of internet trolls will say what they want to say But I'm not gonna add to the fire on that point. I think all of those just like There's people in the world that like pick and choose who they can like respect and talk to and be respectful and certain certain situations like for us like Adults we always expect to root like speak to respectfully and I think ziyad was just one of those types of guys If he doesn't like you he doesn't like you if he likes you He likes you and we've meet we meet these people all the time in real life like They're just people who like you those people who don't like you and if they don't like you They're gonna come after you and I think ziyad was just like picking and choosing based off of I'm not quite sure What but who you like and who he didn't and if he didn't like them he was gonna come in I also would like to say we were 22 Strangers that never knew each other before we came into this experience together Not only did we do challenges and compete for this crazy prize, but we were living together every day 24/7 Showering brushing our teeth eating breakfast lunch dinner and there's the added structure of oh my gosh There's a prize pot at the end of this so You're not like even people you meet in your day-to-day life. You're not gonna like everybody You're not gonna be along with everybody. That's fine. I just think in this space in capacity of a show It's magnified on a pretty intense level for sure Obviously like there was there was like some tension whatever. It's like a it's gameplay Obviously that happens in a competition show But what was it like kind of like experiencing all of that in all of these emotions? And then there's this whimsical aspect of wonko around you like you're having these experiences and then you know It's Willy Wonka and you look around and there's candy everywhere And I wonder like how did that like sit with you guys of just kind of like the The like fun in the tone of the show like how did that feel for all of you the craziness dichotomy Yeah, you have Wonka who is Canfield world chocolate river amazing this marshmallow bed and Red sirens and it's game over. It's your life on the line in there and That's why everyone is so emotional too because it really felt like when somebody went home You are never seeing them again, and also like it was funny Like behind the scenes a little bit the producers before we walked into a new game They're like guys don't forget. This is the best time ever talking about emotional rollercoaster It's like one minute. You're happy. You're just playing a game with everybody Then you're going playing has beans for your life in the dag on half room. You know, it's like wait I think just got serious so quickly. It's like can we just chill for one day at least? Yeah, it was crazy, especially like everyone was there doing it for someone or Whatever goals they try to reach in their life. So that's that added pressure, right because At points when I'm listening to these people's stories. I'm like man. I'm rooting for you too Yeah, and then you leave the conversation is like snap out of it G You need this money for your purpose and your reasons, you know So it's just like this double entendre of like what the heck and what am I supposed to do? so In my game I would thought just being honest and being straightforward with everybody so at least you know how to play the game if you want to come for me Like I bring I bring I invite it, you know, like where it came down to that picking me to be the operator I had two Eggs against me to go home, but I understand why Bryce picked me because he know he knew I was coming for the two Duo's that are left make sense, you know, but let's have fun with it, you know All love at the end of it. I shook his hand. Yeah, would you want me what do you want me to do? You want me to keep you want me to mix with my life? You want me to gamble my life or you want me to these two people were on the eggs? I was gonna be honest tell the people who we're good and then we're gonna keep it moving You know and you can make the choice for three million dollars, but I'm not gonna here give you a honeycomb and you can pick You can pick a nice good egg and I go home That's not gonna happen. You have to get into the game cuz we were all making friends with one another We were like, oh, you know, we were getting too friendly and we were really thinking, you know You know, you guys have to play the game too, so we it was stressful and But we got into the game and hey, that's We just had to lock in but yeah, and in the beginning it's hard because you're with all these people and you want to like start to Know who they are Yeah, well getting to the finale a little bit I would love to know did you know what you were getting yourself into when you went into the voting didn't tell us anything wait we would just show up and We were at a jury which I kind of suspected like for a person who watches survivors like non-stop Like that was kind of my game like I want to kind of keep an enemy with me close hence Zeyad Like kind of bring them to the end because if it was me and him together. I mean, it's an easy pick, right? but You know, I already knew I already created a alliance with Gabby my mom and her had a great alliance all throughout the game But until she left and I was gonna stick to that regardless of whose story was stronger I thought someone who played the game with me was rooting for me wanted me to win I was always gonna pick Gabby at the end of it to get real was like no shock for you to see that he voted for you No, it wasn't it wasn't we were bunk buddy So him and Sean were next to Sasha and I's bed and again like we were saying earlier Sean and Sasha and I would always conspire Happening and we were always yeah, but she also just shed so much wisdom and I call her like my wonka mom because Throughout the whole area we would just like be in the cut talking about life about what was happening next and obviously, you know Garrison is her son and is you know The Apple doesn't far are from the tree in this situation in the best way possible and so when I saw him on the jury I was like all right And she gave me all her coins - I didn't that just goes to show the social game was working for me all the way through because I was getting selected for the crushing challenge with Kelly putting all her Candy in mine and then going from the sorting challenge wherever it picked me and then getting all the coins Which was not highlighted much within the show like my strategic side of the game But your boy was mastermind. Yeah, I didn't even think of that. I forgot like Yeah, yeah We are too busy thinking about the wrong Yeah, and then I guess Kayla was what the winning Basically the winning vote for you. Did you was that shocking? I guess to see that she voted for you. I didn't really know which way she was been a lean I had a feeling she would go in my direction because we did have conversations early on in the factory and she had Kind of a similar story growing up as myself in a way and so we connected Very early days in the factory briefly and then after that we didn't talk too much But I was like I feel like out of the two of us she really hasn't talked to Kayla at all and then you won She flipped it around. I was right I can't help but think about who would be more disappointed if Garrison didn't vote for Gabby your your mom or Gabby No, seriously I feel like Sean you being even more disappointed. I know and I feel like that was a no-brainer throughout the game It's just and there was so much controversy going on regards to like why did you pick ever at first? It's like well, you know I had a relationship with Gabby prior and ever at the time was kind of flippy floppy, which wasn't highlighted much in the show So it was like also we spoke I spoke to Gabby the night before like we're always on we were on one of core like this was gonna happen and For her to switch up. I was like all right. I guess we were really playing the game here But at least on safe hopefully she keeps that strong between us. She's gonna do what's good for her game I'm gonna do what's good for mine, but we were able to continue working together and you know it worked out in the end for Gabby but close for me I Gotta get on his good graces again like three coins. I got you You damn it You got to break them off, you got to break them off. - Yeah. - It was a little funny case though. Maybe a Berkin. - Maybe a Berkin. - Maybe a Berkin. - Maybe a Berkin from there. - That's what I was saying. - Christmas coming up. - That was what I was saying. - Well, it is such a fascinating show. It was so entertaining. I've never seen anything like it on TV. So congratulations to all of you for just participating in doing the show. Congratulations to Gabrielle for winning. It was such a great watch. And we appreciate all of you for jumping in and chatting about it with all of us. - Thank you. - Thank you for having us. - We wish you all the best, good luck and everything going forward. And we hope to see you on our screens again. - Yeah, let's do it. - Maybe in another music video, maybe in our own music video. - I don't know. We're looking forward to it. - There's also some big news coming up. That'll be a release on my social media. - You can't tell us yet. - It's regards to the wedding. So it's going to be a lot of fun. So you all be getting invites. - Oh, yes. Yes, thank you. Thank you. All right, guys, we appreciate it. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Bye, y'all. - Thank you. - It's a blast. - Well, that will do it for today's episode. Thank you to our guests, Anna Peel, and the finalist from Wonka's at Golden Ticket. We appreciate them and we appreciate you for listening. You'll see Nick back on Monday and us again on Tuesday. Bye. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]