E1181 - Married At First Sight Reunion w/ Shawn & Nikki, Brooks Marks Talks Next Gen NYC

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files reality recap edition i'm your host nick joined by the birthday girl herself my wife ali joy happy birthday she is old as the hills 28 wow that is crazy oh my goodness i saw some pictures from a little birthday celebration this weekend happy early birthday to sierra her birthday is uh tomorrow well it would be today if you're listening yeah thank you they're both they're both today in a way i'm older than the hill that natalie is old on so right i know it's like calling out her being old i'm like as i'm several years older yeah yeah anyway okay forget i said that yeah yeah it's cool it's cool i turned to dust suzy is also with us today how you doing suzy good i also celebrated other people's birthdays this weekend like there's so many birthdays happening does anyone else feel that way the world of virgos you know i think you know there's a lot of people in the in the in the cold of winter who embrace their partner with love and affection and you know eight to nine months later my mom told me it was a birthday present from my dad and i was like that's more than i needed to know yeah you know his birthday is december 10th okay he's he was a happy man i do hate being reduced down to a new year's eve party that went well oh yeah but like going back like in a way that in a way in a way that means you're a miracle oh it kind of implies it kind of implies that for a moment like your your your parents weren't like hooking up because your dad was a pain in the ass but it was his birthday so your mom was like fuck it i will present and like that's so true and any other day it wouldn't have happened because like they weren't hooking up and so here you are the miracle baby so true way to spin it honey yeah yeah i love that we've had a rager of a weekend we're up at the lake so lake nick is out he's wearing shorts he's wearing flip-flops um he's eating a lot of sugar i had a lot of sugar this weekend yeah when i saw river on the sea so cute guys that was actually the sweetest moment ever you know what's really great right now like being at the lake every time i'm here i always have like a fond of appreciation of life and or just like what's in my in going on my world um but you know i we bought i bought this house like right when we found out river was now he was pregnant with river so like there's always you know it was like a perfect time of like you know fantasizing about okay i'm gonna have a kid you know having the lake it's so much it was such about my childhood i hope my child connects with the lake yada yada yada and so river's been up here i don't know 10 12 i don't know how many times plenty but she's so young that every time she comes up here and i don't know how long it'll last uh maybe another year but every time she comes up here it's like the first time again um and you know what i'm saying like it's she she's starting to have memories of it but everything you know we do a lot of new stuff and we have with the we did some landscape and there's a playground you know and so it's so cool like in my like my my like happiest place in the world like to see her like experience for the first time like it's the best groundhog's day a father could have it's really great that's really beautiful she's so much fun up here i also think it will last for a long time like i remember going to my parents my dad's side of the family had a lake house when we were younger and it was always magical like it never got old because we didn't go it wasn't like we lived there or anything it was like always magical that's how i feel like too she's gonna it's like different toy you know it's like everything's everything i've kind of made it where everything here is kind of the same as home just so it's like familiar enough you know like she's got the same big girl bed she's got kind of the same i don't know the same vibe of stuff and but it's all like different toys and so every time she comes she's like oh my gosh and she opens up like a new drawer or a cabinet or something well i mean it'll eventually change but my hope it changes to like can we go to the lake you know like it become it's it it cements is this magical place for them as well that they're always excited you know like i mean even to this day when we're driving and we're about you know at the the lakes it's a decent drive from the airport to the lake house but even like as a kid that was that that was the first road trip where i was like are we there yet right and so it's a long enough drive either way and when we pull up to the lake every i that i have that same feeling of excitement and like fuck yeah we're here the same like when i was the same feeling when i was a kid even now every time i show up so i i my dream obviously my children have a similar excitement every time they pull into the lake and i'm just saying like right now she's so young that like she's like it's it there's a an actual look of like this is the coolest this is new this is the coolest thing and i get to the i get to watch it on her face at some point four or five eight you know when she i i hope it turns into that enthusiasm that i have yeah i think it will i'm sure yeah how was your birthday so far we we celebrate we had uh victoria and uh genevieve up here at the lake we did and we it was we got here friday and the weather was chef's kiss perfect so amazing saturday rained all day and then yesterday it was like pretty gloomy all day so didn't get the like i wanted to be tubing and out on the water and that kind of thing and i was like i'm gonna go to the lake and i'm gonna go to the lake and i'm gonna go to the lake and i'm gonna go to the lake which you know can't control mother nature but other than that it was honestly the most fulfilling birthday i think you know when you just feel like i just kind of like looked around i have my three girls like my husband i've got great in-laws good friends i was good food you know it just like you just feel very fulfilled and that's kind of how i felt i was just like i took a deep breath and was like wow i'm just finally at a place in life where i'm like i feel very grateful like i don't need anything i don't want anything i'm just good that's such a healthy place to be i mean people yeah people want never thought i'd be here i want so much but really it's like just as simple as that sounds it's like just having good people surrounding you is such a cornerstone of like having a good life truly it's been great and and then uh oh boy oh my god no i didn't know what's happening but like hey this the this you know being here definitely helps me try to like unwind the only challenge i have at the lake is like i want to be up here more and obviously we have a fully fledged out studio here so um the challenge has been like in the living here which and i have to work because like vacation nick really wants to come out and it's like a little i'm mentally i'm trying to figure out how to how to do both here it's a little bit of a an emotional fuck um but in the spirit and in the spirit of it it like grounding me and all for all the discourse that is like parenting is hard um that's going on the internet right now i had a moment with my two young well i don't forget which one it was dover iris you know but i was holding one of them and and you know like she was you know the newborn uh you know you know it reminded me because like it it does when we had dr curry on and she was talking about like a baby crying literally is like it it it's it literally triggers it is meant to like trigger a nervous system that when i was on special forces and the where they're literally torturing you and they put like headphones on your head and they place noises that like they'll drive you crazy like chalkboard babies like infants crying was one of them anyway so it's just like it is like it is like a a difficult sound so but when your newborn is crying bear with me um anyways i was holding her on my chest and when your newborn's crying it's very easy for it to rattle you and there's this whole kind of like you know you're you're trying to like get them calm but they're also triggering you it's a it's a difficult you know moment and like with but every once in a while i have the mindfulness to like be like my daughter needs me and i will like deliberately like try to like close my eyes meditate take a big breath and slow my breath down and like nine times out of ten i feel my like baby daughter like slow her breath down and calm down and it's just like a great moment uh i'm sure a lot of parents have done that already but if if uh it was it was just like you know because usually it's just like i i feel my breathing like amplify when my daughter's you know crying because it it gets you gets you worked up but every once in a while I like remember you know i'm the parent here my daughter needs me and i like try i close my eyes i slow my breath down and it really is it's it i i used to do that with river i kind of forgot about it and i was reminded of it over the weekend love that friendly reminder friendly reminder well before we get back to nally and her amazing birthday we do have a jam-packed episode we have brooks marks uh important that it's brooks marks because i spent a lot of time trying to convince brooks marks that going forward he should only introduce himself for brooks marks very charming individual the son of the iconic meredith marks he is with us in studio to talk about next gen uh and his experience as a young tv star on bravo then we also have uh now that the meredith first union is in the can as they say we'll have the opportunity to interview some of your favorite contestants on married at first start starting with uh one of the more iconic couples sean and nikki they are not with us together but we have a little he said she said going on this episode and so they are also later this episode so it is definitely jam-packed all right now back to you i'm sorry your birthday the floor is yours natalie tell us tell us what happened tell us how you felt over the weekend i felt very loved loved i felt very loved nick did nick did make everyone go around the table and say their favorite thing about me yep i knew i know she loved that game his dad gave me the best compliment which was like you i you are such a great mom like your patience balances like the amount of strict that you like the the balance beam that you play with being strict but also being patient is he's like is very very good and i was like oh my god coming from you with 11 kids it's what a compliment oh my gosh yeah like yeah 11 kids yeah he's seen it all he knows his stuff they've uh they've done a lot of parenting it's uh it's crazy but apparently victoria said she had to hold your hand throughout my whole birthday weekend is that true she was very helpful love it when friends do that yeah it's it's so funny sometimes it's a little annoying but it is funny when they're like yeah just so you know like i was on the phone with him the entire time and it's like girl i know i know literally i booked everything out of nowhere yesterday next like i have to go to the store and like by store there's not a lot of stores around here he's going up to the gas station that's right up the street and so i'm like okay so then he leaves and i look at victoria i'm like bitch what is he you know where is he going and she's like i don't know you know she has been a locked seal this entire time she knew what gift he got me they had gone shopping together she i was prying pick she would not tell me and so i'm like where did where is he going she's like i don't know i'm like he's going to get candles isn't he she's like i don't know i've never thrown a party here up at the lake and he was in fact going to get candles and i guess she had been telling you to get candles she told you to get balloons she was very helpful right yeah thank god because it was it was she's a woman she's a woman and it was exciting there was yeah i wasn't expecting balloons and or candles uh the the birthday that's not my love language so i need all the help i can get did i nail it english i know he's struggling today why are you struggling to talk i said english i said it's not my love language i know i said english yeah because it was hard for you to get that sentence out yeah wait are we are we allowed to know what you got for your birthday was it a birthday slash like push present or was it strictly birthday no it was definitely birthday push present push present including pushing two out for sure yes it didn't even need to be said yeah i didn't it didn't it was very much known yes he got me a rolex i was crying sobbing puking river was like mommy's sad i'm like no i'm so happy i've never been up here yeah very very shocking was not expecting i knew victoria had said that to him and i knew the response was like absolutely not there's just no way in hell and i think i read the text message back to her that said that and so i was like okay perfect and she was like no there's and anyone who knows victoria she's very persistent and she was like there's nothing else like literally what else would he get you i mean like you pushed out two babies and it's your birthday you deserve this and i'm like you are right i need a friend like victoria truly yeah right um yeah is she busy because i have a birthday tomorrow yeah no she's free you can call her she's free i was like if there's anyone who could get this out of nick it would be her so god bless victoria crazy beautiful i love that but i heard that nick was like very i am wearing i heard that nick was very like uncomfortable and resistant throughout the whole process which i think is just for the great gift very nick and very funny just drink the glass of champagne put your card down and shut up don't think about it exactly i text her i must be obsessed with you he did text me that when he went to go pick it up he texted me i must be obsessed with you and i was like oh my god what could this be and then i asked victoria i said why did he have to go and pick it up this is me just being crazy i'm like why did he have to go pick it up i thought y'all were out shopping like didn't he just get it that day and she was like logistics and i'm like logistics so then i'm like what the hell i was really spiraling she thought i got her a bracelet yeah i thought i don't i just didn't know i was really trying to figure it out but i know have you ever had a do you have you ever had a fake uh excitement for a surprise for a birthday gift you didn't love but you knew that they that you thought they thought they nailed it yeah you have i think yeah yeah i was like i think as a woman i feel like often what are you talking about yeah every other day no yeah it's called an orgasm honestly i feel like i've been faking excitement for gifts like since i was a kid right yeah yeah and like it's like i've been faking it's yeah i never want anyone to feel bad yeah well i think we really kind of taught that too that it's like rude to be like i don't like that or to comment anything it's like you take it graciously and then you either return it or you or you live with it which i kind of like that but knowing how much of a lift this was did were you like i have to cry no it wasn't i didn't even i mean i did it didn't even cross my mind it was like an immediate wait genevieve and victoria were like videoing me reaction of like tears because it was just so this man is so frugal he is literally like we're not spending money on anything ever again one appreciates in value yeah so true oh my gosh wait sierra what do you think connor's gonna get you for your birthday have you dropped any hints do you have a friend is sarah like holding his hand is it a big love language it is i did not push two babies out in the last couple of months i'm going to disneyland and staying overnight that's your dream that's so fun it is my thing so yeah we're doing a cute little thing a staycation at disneyland you know what i did ask for yeah i did ask for um a standing mixer and i what's that oh it's like a kitchenaid like one of the like big ones with all the attachments and stuff because i'm really in my baking you're really in your baking still baking wow and i saw a big box so i know sierra you gotta come up to the you can kind of come up to the lake my mom is like a baking extraordinaire up here you guys could really wow oh we could make some magic you could some really cool things together it'd really be no i'm obsessed it's so much fun are you beyond the sourdough now and it's like other things i'm sourdough i haven't even started my starter but it's like i did this uh garlic cheese pull bread i've made these milk buns and like everything just takes a lot of time but like when it turns out i did cinnamon rolls the other day from scratch yum croissants are like my next big thing yeah but i'm just like it's it's it's so fun it's actually so frustrating because virgo i don't like it i don't like it i don't like it i don't like it i don't like sticky things on my hands so it's like working with the dough i get so frustrated but like as soon as it comes together and it's like in the oven and it's out it's just like that moment when everyone's eating it and you're like i did that do you do you dress up like a little trad wife-ish honestly i probably wear about three different outfits throughout baking and it's like from like the t-shirt and boxers to like oh am i filming this or like yeah but no i have not put on like a full a-line dress to pull out any aprons aprons t-shirt and boxers seems like it would be with an apron yeah just like yeah just like my normal like chill stuff like i'm in between cleaning i gotta let my my dough rest for a couple hours and then come back you know what's crazy about aprons is that i don't wear them often and my mother-in-law gifted me this wonderful apron and i've ruined countless t-shirts uh with like oil stains and i don't know why i don't put one on every time i cook and when i do i feel a little bit more in the zone yeah like with an apron yeah yeah yeah and you have little pockets so you're just like throwing things in there i think we need to reclaim the apron back from the trad wives i think we should too yeah it should be a safe space i don't want to i don't want to be labeled a trad wife if i putting on an apron and filming content you guys my my hairstylist i got my hair done not that long ago he put on like a black leather apron and pulled that he cinched his waist in and i said oh i said oh my god um i didn't know i was so attracted to you you it was so hot i was like wow that black leather apron was it did something for you you cinched that apron you're about to do business yes and he did look at my hair she said send me a link yes nally had to step out she had to pump uh she had to do some momly duties she's in and out of this episode i appreciate you all bearing with us uh we're about to get to our first guest brooks marks the very charming bravo celebrity that is one of the stars of next gen nyc he's the son of iconic meredith marks and he is up next and then following brooks marks if you're tuning in to the married at first sight our interview with nikki and sean it's a it's a wild conversation especially the sean run i was thoroughly entertained uh if nothing else uh we certainly try to get uh some answers on where they're now how they feel about their experience and that is following our conversation with brooks so don't go anywhere uh before we get to brooks we have a little segment idea i've been playing with uh guys uh it's called i hate nick i'm really excited about it uh we are uh listen we we love what we do at this show and we love that we get to talk about these uh fun shows and these fun topics and relationships and we as often say we invite discourse uh we are aware that there are many people people who listen to the show that often do not agree. Uh, and we see it even more online and we feel like that side maybe of, of, of, of the internet isn't, is not fully represented in our living room. And this is an opportunity to bring on some people, uh, who disagree or even feel strongly about me and the positions we have on the show. Uh, it is meant to be fun, lighthearted, take a little bit of the piss out of the disagreements we have, uh, because I strongly feel in this world, we should have more fun disagreeing at least with, uh, the more fun topics. So if you hate me, or you want to debate one of your favorite shows or topics that you've heard with us on the show, please write in. Uh, you can write into the ask Nick email, uh, if you want and, uh, let us know if, uh, if you hate me and we'll see where it goes. It should be fun. I love this. What a segment. What a segment. Well, uh, think about it. And, uh, if you really hate me, let us know. Uh, Brooks Marks. Is up next. And don't go anywhere because we have Nikki and Sean from Marriott First Sight following Brooks Marks. Most dog food brands don't really want you seeing how their food is made. Just food for dogs is the opposite. They actually invite you in. You can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients like chicken, beef, carrots, and peas being prepared right in front of you. It's real food made in real kitchens. Nothing is hidden behind labels. And that kind of transparency says a lot. Nothing to hide, everything to love. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. Emotional processing and wellness are about self-care and discovery. Bring immediate dopamine boosting joy to your daily journaling with the G2 Smiley World collection from Pilot. Combining the smooth, vibrant G2 gel writing experience with smiling emoticons that can activate the same brain response as a real smile. They're designed to help elevate your mood and bring positivity to your writing. Join G2 Smiley World at Target today. G2 Smiley World, write happier. I'm actually working on a song with my sister Chloe tomorrow in the studio. I'm excited, yeah. Is Chloe a singer? Yeah. Oh my gosh. She has her first- Are you also a performer or are you like producing it? Producing, yeah. I assist with producing, co-writing, sort of all of it. But yeah, she had her debut single come out at the end of May, performed it. At the Mighty Hoopla Festival in London. Wow. Which was like super cool. Yeah, she's crushing it. Well, this is a great place to start. Brooks, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you. I'm good. How are you doing? I'm great. I don't want to cut you off, but this was good stuff. I wanted to make sure we used it. But back to your sister's debut. Yes. She had her debut single come out at the end of May, Aura by Chloe Marks. It's an incredible song. And had her debut performance of it shortly after at Mighty Hoopla in London with my mom's DJ. That's incredible. It was pretty awesome. Meredith is an international. I love it. It's great. She is. She is. Does it feel extra surreal when you're like traveling international and your mom is being approached and she has diehard fans or are you just kind of used to it? No, I mean, it's insane. It's like always the most insane thing to see. Well, we're really excited to have you. Obviously, you are from a family of just a really famous Bravo family, an iconic Bravo family. A family that, quite frankly, when it comes to like the Bravosphere has like, you know, has been under fire, has dealt with scrutiny. And there are so many families that fall apart on reality TV. But your family has risen above it all and seemed to be better than ever. And you're all having great success. So it's great to see the Marks family ignore the haters and excel in life. So congrats just in general to you and your family. But it's cool to see. Thanks, Nick. Yeah. It's the Marks family power, if you will. From that regard, like what do you think it is about your family that is able to ignore the noise, as they say, and really be truly a family while supporting each other? Where does that come from? And is that how it's always been in your family? Yeah. I mean, my family, all of them are my best friends and not just like my parents and my siblings, but like my grandparents, my aunts, my cousins. So I feel like it's just been something that's so. So deeply ingrained in my upbringing. And we always keep it real with each other like no one else. So. Being a Bravo celebrity now that you're on NextGen, is that something you aspired to? Did you have to be convinced? Like what was the genesis of you becoming your own Bravo celebrity? When NextGen came about, I was really excited because I felt that the limited capacity in which I was shown on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, like I was excited to actually show more of who I am, you know, and have the opportunity to be the main character and show my life and my business and my dynamics with my friends and whatnot. So I was really excited about it. I imagine as having a mom who's a housewife, I'm sure, because, you know, there's a handful of children shown from time to time and sometimes directly or indirectly, they become storylines. Is it a thing where you feel that? Because a lot of reality TV stars often feel like they don't get to control, their narrative, but at least they are showing up to scenes. Whereas the kids, did it ever feel like that? And I imagine this was very rewarding. Yeah, no, a hundred percent it did. I didn't think that I would even be a topic of conversation throughout Real Housewives of Salt Lake City because I simply thought it was just like my child showing up to support my mom. And then when that wasn't the case and I became a part of the story and whatnot, I was very surprised and didn't really know how to handle it. And I felt like it was an unease. And I was like, I don't know how to handle it. I don't know how to handle it. And even playing ground, you know, and I didn't have the platform really to say my experience, but I did have, and I do have the most powerful mom. So she stood the ground for her and myself. Yeah. Honestly, like that's like watching like you guys in Salt Lake City and your dynamic is when I was like, oh, I ride for Meredith for like forever. Just because I'm like, she's the best. Yeah, truly. Does your mom ever sound like a lawyer when she's parenting you guys? I mean, it's impossible to win an argument with her. It's really frustrating. Now, is that because she's making better points or she's just not going to concede ever? Both. Okay. Literally both. Like she is a lawyer. She is very firm in her opinion and very good at convincing you that it's true, you know? And I mean, she really is almost never wrong. So when she brought up the whole DJ Meredith Marks portion of it, like what was your initial thought? I was really excited. I think that what's so fun about it is it's so unexpected to think that like my mom, this like strong, elegant woman, caviar connoisseur, loves to get behind the DJ booth and break it down. And amazing at it too, by the way. She's so good at it. She's so talented. It's awesome. Yeah, truly. Like going to her DJ sets is the most fun thing ever. And the energy of the crowd is incomparable to anything else. We went to the WeHo show last year and my watch, literally it was like, are you working out right now? I was dancing so hard. Was she, so before she like went into DJing, was it always like, was that something that you guys were like talking about? Like was like, obviously Chloe's making music, like his music always been like a big part of your guys' dynamic and stuff? Yes, I would say so for sure. I mean, we had like the iTunes library where it was sunk to all of our phones. And so my mom got a lot of my music and I got hers and whatnot. So we always like bonded over stuff like that. But her, DJ piece of it, I remember she was in like Provincetown, I think, five years ago or something and just like got behind the DJ booth, had fun. And then I think she was like, I'm going to take this seriously and go from there. And she did because she could. Like, amazing. We ran into you at BravoCon last year, which was that your first time at BravoCon? No, I went to BravoCon, I think it was 2023. Okay, so what's really interesting about this BravoCon for you, right, is we're watching NextGen and you guys were filming during, which I don't think is true, but you guys were filming during, been done. It was crazy. Yeah. What was that like? First of all, having to meet all these fans and doing all these events and being a part of BravoCon and then also being like a working BravoLiberty at the time as well. It's so fun. I mean, getting to see the faces behind these names that I see online and stuff is like so incredible. Realizing that these numbers on social are not just numbers, like these are human beings and getting to meet everyone that shows up and supports the show and me and my family. It's like the most rewarding thing. And then obviously tensions, you know, ran high. It was a long day. And I mean, yeah, long day, long night. Do you feel like you were working throughout and the cameras were just following you or like because you're so used to it? Or did it feel like I have to perform plus show up as like for the fan event as well? I mean, I think the interactions that you have with fans are so brief that like I would never want to have a bad interaction with a fan. Like they have spent, you know, hours, days, like traveling to get there and everything. And then like a 30 second interaction can either like make or break their day. You know what I mean? So there is definitely pressure in that regard, but genuinely it's like so exciting to get to like meet them and see everyone. I was really impressed with Bravo. I was nervous to go because like online it can feel like a very different energy. Right. And, but at BravoCon it's like, who, who are these people? I don't recognize them. Everyone's sweet and nice. And you're like, I don't recognize, you know, cause you're my only experience. was engaging with him online, so I was really glad. I win because it really kind of it really softened my perspective because in person it's just a really lovely great fan base fully I mean I was prepared to meet a hater and get flower bombed or something I don't think they're spending that much on a ticket to do that so yeah but our booths were across from each other that was fun they were yeah you looked uh very busy and very uh you seem like a very focused individual and I feel like you're the tastemaker of your family is that an accurate description I feel like everyone's whether it's your mom's music or your sister's music or whatever your family's doing I feel like you're the one who has like final approval on whether it's chic or not thank you I mean creative director so to creative director but in terms of like chic or not definitely that goes to meredith marks did you learn your taste from your mom I don't think we have the same taste okay like entirely I would say there are definitely arguments that we have over things that she's worn or directions that she's wanted to take her business and whatnot that I don't agree with but um she at the end of the day is like you know the um judge of what she cannot so not to be forgotten your father says of course not let's not forget him where are you some like who like what qualities from your father do you have versus the qualities from your mother what a great question yeah I think that my dad is the most like loving and accepting person of everyone and so I would at least judgmental and I would love to think that I'm the same so that's probably like the number one thing I mean he has a great sense of humor and doesn't take anything too lightly super supportive and he's just like a walking ted talk at all times you know or like having like mel robbins in your pocket so yeah I forgot what the scene it was with in the first season when your dad was on it I forgot who it was was it was it so the person you were dating I don't know but he was trying to be a mentor to someone and it was really oh it was charlie it was charlie it was charlie but it was like unsolicited like can I be your mentor and it was like so endearing how's that mentorship going uh with charlie it didn't go okay yeah yeah he didn't take yeah not sexual though no no he he just I think can't hear well all your dad can do is try yeah exactly what is it what is it like someone filming with someone like charlie where obviously you guys have had like some like tension um and it seems like no one really likes him but he's always around and like what is that dynamic like for you just like kind of dealing with him all the time like are there things that you like about him are you in a better place with him now like yeah well I think it's tricky and what a lot of people who have long-standing friendships with him are navigating is you know people change throughout the years and whatnot and a lot of the behavior that I've seen from him in the past year or two is new and behavior that I've not experienced so I feel like trying to navigate that um and try to not you know and just have like discernment with what's going on has been difficult um but like at the end of the day we're all like walking this earth for the first time and so I don't want to be overly judgmental so to say he's a smile maybe not developing the direction you are yeah yeah yeah exactly and I'm it's honestly so exhausting watching someone continually hurt the people that I love and care about and have no little to no remorse for it that's what I was gonna ask is like do you think that charlie gets an unfair pass for his behavior because I feel like it's always kind of surmounts to it that's just charlie yeah and it's just kind of like I've especially this last episode watching how he spoke about ariana like even though he's not a charlie he's not a charlie about a mirror that have come out that he said that I'm just like it's it's so confusing to me how everyone's able to just like sit down at a dinner table with him the next night knowing that he said terrible awful things about you guys girl me too yeah trust me we get all into that at the reunion okay you know shy said the reunion was um what he used a he used a very specific word for it terrifying is what he said would you agree I mean it is intimidating like it's a set with cameras and lights and like we're sitting there for hours on end hard-hitting questions you don't really know how people are feeling about certain things or how they're going to react to them so yeah I mean the pressure is definitely on was there ever because I you know in reunion obviously there's there's a production behind it and to your point like you said I think that you're supposed to kind of come in with what you want to say and not give your peers necessarily the heads up is there a moment I know you can't share too much but is there a moment where something comes up where you feel like whoa like it like and it directed at you where you caught off guard at any moment by your peers yeah absolutely and I think that I did the same to them so it's it's fair okay a lot of people have kind of like given you a little bit of shit for like confrontation and you've talked about like not liking confrontation um going into a reunion that's obviously all confrontation right did you were you like working yourself up for it did you go in there like intending on being like okay I'm gonna do this or did you want to still kind of keep it peaceful well here's the thing is I feel like with confrontation it's not that I'm like I mean it's something that I'm fine to do it's just I don't ever want to have a friendship ruined over it you know yeah and I think it's what I'm more scared of is just like the aftermath of a confrontation what comes from it I think that you know the past year or two we've seen me be confrontational but my delivery might not be as harsh as people might want or you know if I were more harsh to be more receptive to it so I feel like at reunion I definitely dialed that up and I was like you're not gonna hear me I'm gonna be more or harsh about it you know how are you and shy these days good I mean I wish them like all the best we were with each other like a couple weeks ago had like a fun night yeah I love uh Rowan as an addition to the cast I think uh she's so fun and it feels like she blends in seamlessly yeah um did you know her before she joined okay so you just met her so I feel like a chance to just meet her yeah and so I'm wondering why do you think uh like Rowan fits in so well and that shy is having such a problem a year later I think that shy initially everyone was very like welcoming of and excited about he behaved very differently this past year I feel like um Rowan came in and just was like this light-hearted fun energy and she brought a lot of humor to things she's a wonderful friend and I'm so grateful that she's part of the group oh such a great addition yeah would you consider shy at this point more of a friend or an acquaintance because Riley brought up the difference with them I would say he's a friend yeah I mean we're working towards building a friendship at least that was what our last conversation was about I don't know if that's changed on his end I think what makes a an amazing reality TV star is their ability to be the same both on and off camera because then it feels more authentic I think your mom is yeah a standard there I think a lot of fans a lot of people are fans of you are there any of your peers especially because this is just you know it's new it's new for all of you filming but are any of your peers do you feel are noticeably different when the cameras are rolling versus when you're just kind of hanging out with them without them rolling yes I mean throughout this season I think a lot of shy's shy and eyes issues were that he was not being the same off camera as he was on camera and I feel that that whole situation has been like my experience has been narrated by both him and Charlie throughout the entire season which has been frustrating to watch but um it is what it is you know like I know my truth at the end of the day so what was maybe the biggest difference for the shy like how is he off camera versus on just he wasn't owning things that he was saying off camera when I brought them to camera okay is this about his comment that you made about Ariana yeah that was part of it um and there's more that you'll see at the reunion that comes up okay so I have a question about uh technicalities I guess um because I'm in my 30s right so I'm like dating in your 20s in New York it's fascinating to watch and I'm watching this conversation happen where Ariana Ariana and Liam have talked about being exclusive yeah and then the whole Charlie bringing up this leaving the charger over situation and it's we're not exclusive we're not dating but they have a conversation of exclusive can you explain to me as an elder millennial what does that mean like what is the difference of exclusivity versus dating versus boyfriend girlfriend like are there stages to this yeah I mean to me it goes like you're seeing someone that you're excited about but you're not exclusive so you could go see other people too at the same time or do whatever you want so it comes from like going on dates to like then being exclusive meaning that you're not seeing anyone else okay but it's not as serious as like a boyfriend girlfriend but what is the difference though it's I guess it's a conversation right that transitions it I get where you're yes yes well then it's like being exclusive just doesn't feel as serious as being like will you be my boyfriend is it because if it doesn't work out you don't have to add them to the list of exes yeah they're just like someone you dated and tried out they'll be your ex not ex-boyfriend no because I Loki consider like exclusive the same as kind of like a situation ship almost or maybe no situation ship is a situation ship with intention is there like what are they you know like um common law like if a couple lives together long enough they're married if you're like exclusive but not boyfriend and girlfriend long enough do you like are you just grandfathered in even though you don't have that chat to being boyfriend and girlfriend no no you're still exclusive okay it's in perpetuity i feel like exclusive it's like you can easily just shift that car in reverse and be done but like boyfriend girlfriend exclusive is the engagement at this point if like boyfriend girlfriend is marriage yeah but you still have to break up if you don't want to see this person anymore it's just like i don't want to be exclusive anymore i want to see other people too okay so it's like and can you do that over text i don't know i don't know i feel like yeah exclusive it's like lower stakes all right awesome i was exclusive with my boyfriend before we got to where we are today so and how long did it take you to get there now what's your anniversary do you have uh the day we became exclusive in the day we became boyfriend and girlfriend an exclusive aversary no we don't have an exclusive aversary i'll tell you what i i my wife not to make this about me and my relationship but like we're very compatible but i'm not going to be able to make this about me and my relationship but like we're very compatible but when it comes to get her birthdays coming up when it comes to love languages i'm full of love but i have no love for gifts it feels like there's an infinite amount of holidays that i'm required to get a gift it's really hard for you it's a strain on our relationship it's the only thing that creates tension well i guess that's a good strain to have you know it could be that's an easy fix now well you know i'm fortunate enough that i can despite my begrudging and and kind of scrooge mcduck attitude i can uh i can still afford to make my wife happy that's good what's the best gift your dad's ever giving your mom besides you i don't know who's the best gift giver in your family um probably me i knew you're gonna say that yeah definitely me yeah you seem like a good gift giver i remember when i was like 12 i got my mom an ipad but i wrapped it as like the shape of a heart because i didn't want her to know what it was that's so cute that's really cute and i thought it was like so cool and mischievous but she like she was like why is this so heavy and feels like a rectangle so i have a really really important question for you so you talked about seeing ghosts and having living in a haunted house as a kid and i just want to know like a little bit more about that and also like have you lived anywhere haunted since is this something that you still have experiences with yeah i mean not to that level no okay actually the what is it like the roosevelt hotel here yeah i was there one time and it felt very haunted 100 and then i did a lot of research and i found out that it is just that like something sinister occurred you know probably something sinister occurred at every hotel across the world yeah that happened to me in this like old hotel i was going to college in chicago and i was at this old hotel and i literally like walked across like one hallway and the energy just like completely shifted in the room and i was like yeah or like temperature like if rooms can like feel heavy yeah feel like dark like energy can feel crazy yeah yeah do you think people can people can be haunted and if so who do you think of your cast would be the most likely to get haunted yeah i mean i think it's anyone watching this would know like charlie is possessed as haunted for sure yeah yeah are you watching ultimate girl strip at all i just watched the episode with my mom appearing and i loved it yeah the group dynamic is so cute they're having like the best time to that end we are seeing a lisa barlow um and i i have i've had quite the journey with lisa i used to be a critic now i'm a now i'm a super fan an apologist i love it uh what is your experience with mrs lisa barlow and uh are you a huge fan is she being you know obviously her and your mom have always had a very dynamic relationship uh what is it like to know the real lisa barlow it's actually insane i've known her for like 13 years now um unless i just did the math wrong it was 14 and i'm 27 now so like whatever that is 13 yeah look at you genius um yes i believe you i swear i run a clothing brand um but no she's awesome she's never changed she's the same how is she misunderstood do you think by the general public well i just think that she's constantly under fire so i feel like she feels the need to defend the things that she's been criticized about so i don't think that you see the side of her where she's not under fire a lot and um i don't she's always just been so fun like she um has just been like the most complimentary person and i remember we had like lunch in salt lake city when i was 14 her and my mom were having lunch and i like crashed it and she just made me feel so good about myself and she's so like real with all the stuff that went on with her and my mom like years ago with like the hot mic moment and whatnot it was like to me it would be fake to like see me and be like oh my god hey brooks like how are you blah blah blah like she you know we didn't talk like she was like i don't know like it was like real and i actually appreciated that i actually don't love when someone is horrible to my mom and then feel like they can just be best friends with me and like you just annihilated my mom why would i like go get a drink with you how did you feel uh when they started to reconcile was it like finally or was it just kind of like okay like gradual see how this goes i mean obviously no one wants to see anyone be treated that you love and care about in a negative way so i probably was more protective and like apprehensive and nervous for her but at the end of the day it's between them two and it would just make me feel really happy that they were able to move past it you know as obviously meredith's son with everything i'm sure do you do you watch all of salt lake city or just like bits and pieces yeah i'd say like i've watched all of it how does it feel like watching your mom kind of have to fend for her own in this like lion's den of women that seemed if it's not coming for lisa they're coming for meredith and it's just like you know your mom inside out and it's just like seeing these things that they put on her like how how does it feel like being a son like watching your mom have to deal have to engage yeah yeah i mean i feel really proud of her you know she handles it really well she handles it with elegance and grace and puts a bitch in their place hey oh my god wait that was like a haiku i kind of loved bars when you go into like the reunion obviously salt lake city's reunions are like very intense so did you did you get any advice from your mom like going into the next gen reunion yeah i was on like a three-way call with her and mary and i was like help me out please what do i do mary was like say it with me i am strong yes period i need that right now she took you to church yeah fully and then you know my mom was like just be real be yourself and you got this it seems like uh you know you can have anything you want in life brooks so i'm curious what is what does success look like in three years honestly just happiness okay like mental health what's the updates with the clothing line um my resort collection is out which has been so exciting where can we find it where can we buy it where can we support brooksmarks.com exclusively do you appreciate how cool your name is the double ks is just killer it's the type of name like you were born to have a clothing line like i could never no one would buy clothes with my last name it's like ew what the vile shirts wouldn't the vile t-shirts wouldn't wouldn't do it you don't think well i can't say we've made a killing on merch and i don't bring me in i'll design it uh i might have to steal your name it's like it's a it's an you have the type of do you when you introduce yourself do you ever are you like high on brooks marks or you just say i'm brooks because i if just i would go i would go full name if i'm you i'm crying um it's like bruce behind bruce thank you it's a great thank you that makes me feel really good about myself and i'm reconsidering how i do introduce myself well you have to you have you it's oh shit oh it's brooks marks i'm brooks it's like the opposite of madonna brooks marks no but seriously like i it it it lands like i've every time i meet a guy who introduced his full name i you can you know why because it's always a great name like my mom's main name is parker and if i was nick parker damn oh my god um parent yeah exactly nick parker you own a winery for sure yeah that is the guy's name in the parent trap anyways for me brooks please go full brooks marks it's it's too good to to not it's such a waste if you don't great name thank you face card and clothing come on thank you come on now thank you what's your favorite piece in the resort collection that's tough um more recently i just came back from a trip where i was in europe for like 10 days and i was wearing the um universe all shorts a lot in the color midnight sunray and moonlight is this something i can wear and look good on me yeah yeah how about when nelly and i are promoting age of attraction next season for netflix you you dress me in some brooks marks on our press tour we can get you in a custom fit i do a lot of custom looks too let's do it can we do that yeah absolutely you heard it here first all right i'm gonna hold you to it no please do i would love that thank you i would be honored are you kidding i love it uh do we have any more questions for books before we send them on his way i have two more questions one have you have you heard anything about like next gen la why did i say la like that keep it in but have you heard anything about next gen la have you like heard anything about the rumor cast or talk to them the rumblings i feel like i'm in the loop as much as everyone else is on one from what we see online um but yeah that would be incredible i would love that do you think would you view it as like competition or like your siblings yeah siblings yeah no crossover they would They should do like some kind of the way they introduced Summer House. You guys go on a group trip to L.A. and like. That would be so fun. You guys would be the Orange County Housewives and then L.A. would be the Beverly Hills Housewives. And then whatever comes after. It's like the start of the franchise. Oh, my God. That would be insane to think that we were the match that started it all. Wow. The lantern that started the Chicago fire. Literally. Period. Wasn't there a cow involved in the Chicago fire, too, or something? Yeah. Oh, it was the cow that knocked the lantern over. Oh, the cow knocked the lantern over. Yeah. And then the limestone building downtown was the only thing that survived. I learned that in my freshman year of Chicago class. Yeah. And then my last question is kind of. That's why the city is haunted, by the way. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever see like the like bullet holes from the mob guys when you'd be walking around? Actually, I did not. I miss that in my days in Chicago. Oh, it was. There's this really old church like downtown in the loop in Chicago. And I like walked by it one time. It was like a it was like touring my college. And they were like, yeah, that's an Al Capone bullet hole. They could have been lying. It was just a call. Definitely. Definitely. It's a beautiful city, though. I do love it. Brooks, before we let you go, if you and honestly, you can tell us to fuck off. But are you willing to share your sourdough recipe with us once we wrap? Yeah. Can I ask one vulnerable question about sourdough? Because I know both of you make sourdough. I haven't made it yet. Oh, you haven't? I'm just making French loaves. What is a sourdough starter? I heard that word and I pretend I know what it means, but I don't know. It's a living organism, right? Or something. What's the difference? So is it like different than a regular bread starter? Like what? Yeah. Oh. Well, so like with traditional bread or baguette or whatever, you would have you would use yeast, which is like a powdered, you know, yeast is right. Yeah. So you'd use that. But with sourdough, what makes it sourdough is like using the sourdough starter, which is basically fermented flour that you're constantly like nourishing by giving it a ratio of flour and water every day. So you take care of it. You're literally feeding it. Yeah. That's really sweet. Why am I blanking? Little shop of horrors. Yes. Yes. But it's like that where it's like you have to feed it. Feed it, see more. And then if it's like starts to get sick or droopy, you got to take some out. You got to restart. And it's like you can keep a sourdough starter for years and years, pass it down to your children. Generations. Generations. Yes. Yeah. Like an aged starter like that is like an aged wine. That is my dream. Yeah. To like have like in my will, who's going to get my sourdough starter? You brought that up. That's why I was like, I think I've completely misunderstood what a sourdough starter is. Forever and all fermented, fermented for sure. Science is crazy. Brooks, this has been a lot of fun having you on the show and just congratulations on all your success. And obviously, good luck with everything. I'm sure we will. See you around for a long, long time and hope to get you back on the show. And again, I want to be styled by you for my next press tour. We're going to make it happen. Yes. Where can people find you, follow you, support you with everything you're doing? You can find me at Brooks Marks on all social platforms and brooksmarks.com for my clothing brand. Did you have to pay to make sure like when you got your website, did someone else have it? No, but I'm actually really upset. I almost got the Instagram handle at Brooks, like just at Brooks. I got a DM like in 2020. And they were like, I'm selling this handle. It's like $3,000, whatever. I'm like, okay, I'm going to make it happen. And I thought it was going to be a scam. And then like two days later, someone else bought it. And I was like, I could have had that handle. Do you have Brooks Marks though? Yeah, but it's not good enough. Listen, try it. Try it out. Try introducing yourself only as Brooks Marks. Yeah, but okay. See, what if my personal Instagram was at Brooks and then my brands was Brooks Marks? No, listen, at Brooks is very chic. Any, any, any single. There's like, someone has Nick. It's, it's cool. Well, let's come for them and let's get it. What does it take to get it? Brooks, thanks for coming on, man. We appreciate you. Good luck at the reunion. I'm going to need that for when it airs. Do you want him to present the gift? No. What'd you get me? This is our Brooks Marks sock duo. Period. Oh, I just saw that in the episode. Yeah. The sock fairy. Yes, the sock fairy. The sock fairy is here today. Oh my God. When you came sliding down the banister, it lost it. You said delivery? Yeah, that was fun. Next show is literally my favorite show on TV right now. Of course. So inside of this magic box. Look at this packaging. We have our ankle socks, which are the newest edition and jet black with the Jackard process logo on the sole. Well, I wear those with a loafer, maybe. I'd wear it with like a sneaker. A sneaker, for sure. And then we also have them in cloud white. Oh, thank you. Made for Arch. Arch support. Must be nice, Nick. Must be nice. We'll get you some, too. All right. Well, thanks for coming in, buddy. I appreciate you. Thanks. See you later. All right. Bye-bye. All right. It's time to talk some Married at First Sight. We have Nikki and Sean coming up. Any big takeaways from the reunion that you ladies want to get off your chest before we get to Nikki and Sean? I just want to say that I do think that this was really fun. It was one of the most captivating reunions I have watched in a long time. Yeah. I think they did a really good job with like giving the time to each couple and like time that made sense. And it was like, I feel like all of my questions were answered. Seeing the moms getting involved with like Felipe and Tori or Sean and Nikki. Like I was like, I appreciate this additional input. And were we shocked that nobody? Is together anymore besides Michelle? And it's always the good ones. It's always the good ones when you can't remember their name. The unproblematic ones. I feel like if you can get one successful couple out of this, that's a win. That's true. And they are, they seem so solid. They seem really happy. Yeah. She said something in her vows and I really liked it. She was like, if, if there's, if two people want to be in a relationship and there's a bit of chemistry, anything's possible. And I was like, that's so true. It really just takes. It takes two willing people and then just a little bit of like, okay, I can jive with this person, you know? Yeah. Well, I feel like Sean disproves that. Well, I don't know that there was any chemistry. Because his whole thing, and you'll hear it in the interview, uh, that he was, he wasn't going anywhere. I agree with you. I mean, I obviously, I mean, that is the core of it. You know, I, I'm, I'm joking. Uh, but it's interesting how Sean has that perspective and yet didn't seem to work for him. I, I was floored by Philippe being like, can we be friends? Crazy. Okay. I have to say, you guys, this is where my revenge plays the long game. He's like, you know, not too much. No. No. I, I like got so much happiness from that scene because I just think that I really do. I think revenge comes later. I think that justice is served and that he won't feel this until like another, you know, seven to eight years. When he's starting to get real. Lonely, maybe his, like, I shouldn't say this, but I'm like, maybe his hairline moves back a little bit and the access to women that he has right now starts to recede just like his hairline. And I'm just thinking, I'm like, he's going to feel that loneliness. This is mean. This is so mean. But this is how my brain feels as a girl. When a guy fumbles you, I'm like, the revenge comes later. She's, she's got the long game and she was classy. She was beautiful. She was everything. And he's going to think about her at night, 10 years from now. Wouldn't he? The way Adam was able to. The way Adam was able to make Kourtney look sympathetic in like 30 seconds. Yes. Why was he so mean to her? He seemed so angry in that moment. Like, my only guess is there are people matchmaking him and Kourtney online and he's taking great offense to that. And it also feels like a misplacement of his anger. It's almost like he took all this heat in the previous segment and then finally he gets the chance to, like, unleash on somebody and it was her. And it's like, that's not even, like, justified. It's, she's done nothing. You know, maybe she even has a crush on you. And, like, that's just so mean to, like, I don't know, lash out on somebody who has a crush on you. But on the flip side, the way she was like, I'm an alpha and Nick's a pussy was great. I mean, like. Crazy. She's like. Justice for Nick. Yeah. Justice for Nick. Yeah. Really. I was proud to see him standing up for himself. I was like, this is a side of Nick I wish we had seen a little bit more in the show. Me too. Yeah. But it's. And reality TV, very difficult for men to thread that needle. And sometimes. It's easier just to take it and hope that the audience sees your side. I'm just confused. Are we still doing hickeys in 2026? Oh, my gosh. Crazy work. That was the most, like, if anything, that was, like, one of the most, like, I was like, wait, what do you mean? It fits with the jet skis. It does. The tarp for a roof. So was the hickey from the girl that was in the audience? Was that the timeline? I think it was. But after he, after he yelled at Nikki about pickleball for 20 seconds, she had been mortified. Oh, yeah. Oh, can you. Yeah. Can you imagine being the. On the audience? Like, I'm a stick beside him. He's the sweetest, most compassionate. Yeah. After three months, you bring your, your three month girlfriend. I do want to say that we need to reclaim thinking people are ugly, but we need to take people are ugly back. Whoever, whoever us is as a society. I love that these shows explore the importance of things outside of physical connection. I do. But the way these shows sometimes have a way of shaming people for having a. personal preference and just, you know, not like fucking with you and just being like you know you're not you're not my type i don't find you attractive um the way people are like like bullied into like admitting it so that they can be shamed i think is a little crazy i think when it comes to relationships there are like three three three truths you have to like at least you know you should be aware of and i think it'll help you is like one there's someone for everyone thank god you can you can be a pain in the ass but chances are you're gonna find someone that accepts you for who you are for the most part two for sure no one is for everybody you know like i don't care who you are some people are just like you know they're not for you and you're only looking for one so you don't have to have everyone obsessed with you and some people can just find you repulsive and that's okay yeah and like you're just you're ugly to some people yeah i mean i was talking about this with girlfriends recently where it's like you can objectively see somebody and be like wow that is objectively an attractive person but i am not attracted i don't need to call you handsome you know yeah you don't need to bully me into thinking they're beautiful why do i have to call everyone's not beautiful or handsome right right and i want to be able to say that without the fear of the internet and i just said it so well i feel better now yeah i hope you're ready yeah i hate nick anyways back to yeah remember i hate nick is uh taking applicants um and you're ugly wrap it up there we go there it is uh all right well it's time to get to nikki and sean they are up next it's a fantastic interview with both of them i want to thank them for taking the time uh to answer our questions we're starting with nikki and then we get to hear from sean so i hope that you enjoy both nikki welcome to the show thanks i'm thrilled to be here we're so excited to have you uh so many questions but i guess this off the bat how are you feeling overall emotionally now that the experiment the show the airing now that it's all done it's in the can how are you feeling about your experience my main feeling is relief i believe that and i don't need that negatively but sure yeah it was just such a a challenging experience on so many levels you know partly the production experience what's being you know spectated 24 hours a day inside of this experience but also emotionally right through uh what i experience with uh with with sean and and with myself um i'm so excited to be here thank you so much for having me thank you um and then uh so a feeling of relief now that you know that the experience has been bookend we had the reunion uh air this week and so uh yeah it's just it's nice for it to be over i don't mean that in a negative way no i totally get it it's great to be over and for me to just be able to figure out like the next chapter i i totally understand uh i don't know what you it's like to have gone through your very unique experience but yeah listen there's a lot of anxiousness and and unknowing that goes into certainly the airing of this show and uh i i can appreciate uh the relief i'm sure that you feel now that you can just digest it all and there's nothing like you know there's always like what could happen next kind of anxiousness that comes with being a part of these experiences so i i totally get it i guess i just want to start with i'm sure you get a lot but like just how you ended up going on such a long journey and i think it's just it's it's it's like just how you ended up going on such a unique show i have so much respect for people who are willing to like try these these unique experiences out i couldn't see myself doing it like when i say this is i'm a i i'm a i'm a particular person and i like things a certain way you strike me as someone who has your your certain and i feel like maybe that was the only thing that you and sean had in common is that you both like like things a certain way but as two people who like things a certain way i you know like that there's a lot of like you you had to give up you know picking your partner so like what made this experience for someone like yourself so intriguing to try out personally nick thanks for seeing me because you're spot on yeah i i tried everything um i done you know the apps and being set up by friends and you know the the singles events in fact i think there's still some on my calendar that i just would go uh weekly to these events and then like despite what the internet is suggesting a professional matchmaker service so i had literally done everything and i had met good guys but like not him like not my person and so when i was approached by like casting people to consider this experience and honestly they had to kind of convince me um over the course of a couple of days because i i have a lot of trust and at that moment have a lot of trust in the franchise of married at first sight because of the science behind it still to your point i was terrified at the concept of being on tv and and having to live this very personal like intimate experience out loud and so i i basically did it scared uh and and so uh that was really the reason behind are you glad you did it if you could go back and do it all again would you still have done it if i could go back and do it again um that's a that's a hard i i i've had this question posted me a few times even from like friends and i kind of i go back and forth i would say i don't have any regrets i feel like i learned so much and i feel like it's a privilege to be in this position right and i would do it again and i would actually do some things differently if i were to do it again do you have any of those you want to share i think that while i i appreciate that i was honest and that i was myself and that i didn't sugarcoat i i feel like i could have been kinder and more compassionate like when i look when i play back the reunion episode um while while i was speaking my truth i do feel like i i didn't need to get so personal and sort of psychoanalyze sean as a human like i clearly was hurt and i think that is what was coming through but in hindsight i would have maybe said things differently okay that makes sense you address the whole like not knowing you're not going to be able to do it again and you're not going to be able to do it again at the wedding day at the reunion what has been the response overall from fans are they seeing it as what i think it should be is this kind of a almost a funny charming moment you know given how crazy this experience is or are they are they taking it a little far what what has been the kind of the response from the audience about that moment the response from the audience are from the mobs community it's it's it's varied right there's a bunch of different responses but i think the the response from the audience is that it's a funny charming moment it's a funny charming moment and i think the main response is what is true which is like in that moment one i was extremely nervous like i i could could have vomited like i was just so nervous because i didn't know what to expect and i was also just coming to the realization that i was like marrying a stranger um but like in that moment i was thoroughly confused like i really did think that um that i really did think that um that i was thoroughly confused like i really did think that um that to me that he was my husband until it was announced by the officiant that he was my husband so i i think most viewers see it as a legitimate like experience where i was just confused for a few minutes he looks like he could be an officiant i mean honestly i mean that like the brown suit like i literally was like oh okay like they're just swishing it up and the match and he's gonna come second like i was just i was just confused and i and i especially with the help from the experts like i am cognizant that my experience and how i speak about my experience can affect another human can affect sean and i certainly wouldn't tend to be rude and some of the internet thinks that i was like just mean girling him in the moment i would never do that i literally thought that my husband hadn't shown up yet and i'm sorry if it it landed poorly in that moment i think you deserve all the grace in the world i i just think this experience is so crazy i am curious in the matchmaking process how much was looks discussed in terms of your preference and did you share it if it was asked and i'm curious if like did you get to describe some of your preferences and then you know maybe it was different so this is a good question yes there was actually a pretty in-depth discussion around like preferences for like physical appearance and looks both in live interviewing with folks tied to the show as well as um and like the survey assessments that we complete and it's twofold one i did explain pretty thoroughly kind of what my ideal partner would look like and it you know i um it did also based on their questioning include like tell me who your celebrity crushes are and so i remember sending like here are the top you know here are 10 you know men who i think are hot whatever they range from like height uh even race like i didn't have a race preference i think the internet thinks i said i wanted a six foot black man well i just said i wanted a a good looking like human like i wanted a nice guy who would be kind and be social and all the things and so i was very specific in kind of my ideal state um i also though said looks isn't the only thing and so i really wanted someone that has certain character traits like kindness compassion intelligence i want to see someone who is social and adventurous because i'm maybe not as as much of an adventurous type and so i think that the experts maybe did their best but i do want to dispel what some of the internet says which is like i'm a sapiosexual i may have said that but i'm not a sapiosexual i'm not a sapiosexual But I now know from like Googling the term that it means that I only care about intelligence. And it's deeper than that. It's layered. I care about a lot of things. But I think the main thing I care about, especially coming out of this experience, is that I just want someone who's kind. Yeah. Can I ask, just like, can I have a couple of names that were on your list of celebrity crushes? Oh, crap. I'm trying to remember. Let's see. And even if they've changed, you can just give us one that comes to mind. Okay, I did say, okay, there's the really hot football player. Is he retired? No, he's still working. Who does he play for? The Eagles, I think, yeah. Jalen Hurst? Eagles. Yes. There we go. Yes. And he is. And he is. He's a beautiful man. It was 10 men. They were white, Asian, black, athletes, actors. Yeah. It's across the spectrum. Yeah. He was high on the list. I'm curious, Nikki, because I think these shows are fascinating. I like how Love is Blind and Married at First Sight, same production company. And obviously, a lot of these shows are rooted in there's more than love and it is physical attraction. And we have to dig deep to find these very important compatibilities when it comes to a relationship. I love how these shows do that. On the flip side, I'm curious, do you feel like going through this experience that having, having, having physical preferences was almost shamed in a way beyond the point of like being realistic? Because I can't help but watch these shows and find people like yourself, for example, that seemingly have to defend having a physical preference. Like, and we had to pretend that almost as if you have a physical preference, there's you, it's something you have to defend and that you're shamed for. You had them clearly, Sean, maybe wasn't it, but why you had to defend that seems to be unreasonable. And from my perspective, I'm curious if, if you have any perspective on that. Yeah, thank you for asking another good question. I think one, it's again, hindsight being 20/20, I'm, I'm very sensitive that to talk about things like this, because I don't want to reduce Sean to just this, this physical archetype, right? Sure. Like he is a whole human. I, you know, I think that's worth stating and, and we also have our, our preferences. Uh, so yeah, I, I do think I, I've been a little bit like villainized. Yeah. I've been a little bit like villainized about that when, you know, if, if I'm speaking to a best friend or like, if it's just us three in a room, right, I'm going to be honest about like what I like, what, what stimulates me, like, but to do it in such a public way, it, it opens the conversation up to more, I won't say criticism, but more evaluation and, and it honestly brings this discourse to, to, to, to light, which is like, how much of that doesn't matter? Should it matter? Is it a bad thing? If, if it matters to you? Like, so there's just a lot of complexity here, but I would say I, I stand by the fact that like, yeah, I, I have a physical preference. Um, there's a physical type that I respond to and, uh, that I was hopeful that my husband would, would, would sort of show up that way. And um, it, it almost seems like it's okay for men to have a physical preference, right? It's almost the standard. It's almost the, it's the question that's asked. And when, when someone asks a guy like, what's your type, typically it's like, what's your physical type? Right. When a woman is asked that question, I think it's, it's open to more criticism and I think that's what I was on the receiving end of. So yeah, I think that's a little bit unfair. I also think that this show and reality shows like this do force you to be, to, to think a bit more openly about that. Right. Because you could have someone to meet your physical type who doesn't meet any of the other things. Or you could have someone that's like, not your physical type that you grow to appreciate and even love because they have all these other, maybe even more important qualities. And so, um, that's, that's what I would say. I really appreciated your mom at the reunion, um, when she spoke directly to Sean and the one thing she chose to say, and obviously I loved how she made it clear that she had more to say, but, um, was that he didn't take care of you and, and, um, you know, while watching. How did you guys relationship unfold and, you know, it was, I didn't really like click with me. Uh, but when your mom said it, I thought that was a really objective and fair criticism from my perspective. And I look forward to asking Sean about how he received it, but like, I think he had times he had good intentions, but like pointing things out because almost like his way of getting on you guys on the same level was to like nitpick each other in a way. But that didn't come across as a way that like, this is a person I want to take care of and protect her. And I don't want to make her feel bad. I don't want to make her feel bad about herself. I want to find ways to bring her up. It didn't seem like, you know, I thought I like how your mom really did that. My question to you is how do you feel like Sean received that feedback from your mom? And do you think he understood what she meant? I think that like one, I can't speak for him. Right. No, I know. Uh, but you did get to know him and I'm just curious as the man you got to know over that period of time. Do you think he was open to that? I don't think he was as open as he is. I, as I would have expected him to be. Okay. And, and part of it is he is a very family oriented person and has deep ties with his family as, as has been made known and, and that's actually one of the qualities that I appreciated about him. And so I would have expected him to have like more respect, um, and appreciation for like her as my mom and, and her giving feedback, whether he agrees or not. I think the respect wasn't there. And I, she was on the receiving end of what I had experienced, which was like, you know, you could miss it if you, if you're, if you're not like deeply tuned in, like this, like subtle gaslighting, subtle, like, um, demeaning condescension behavior. And I, that's what really angered me in the, in, in that moment, just to spend a lot of time during the show, trying to protect her from that. Um, and then to see it play out out loud unexpectedly, um, was disappointing. And I think whether he agreed or not with her feedback, I think there was a different, you know, softer way he could have handled it. The moment where he mentioned the wifely duties and then later was like, I would never say that. I would never infer that to watch the internet risk, like see that play out and kind of come to your defense. But at least that's what it felt like from my perspective. Was that validating for you? And did you hear from Sean at all? Like, was there an apology when he saw it back and realized, oh, I did say that? Yeah, it was, it was validating to see the footage and to see the internet response because, um, there were many instances where, uh, that were, that weren't captured on camera, right? Where I had a similar experience where I was like, wait, like you did say that, like, you know, that kind of thing. And so to have the most, the most sensitive topic of the entire, um, season, um, captured on film was really redeeming and, and it, it, it kind of softened the, the blow of experiencing it and, um, real time. And then to see the public reaction to, uh, to line up with my experience with him, which I obviously have characterized as unsafe versions of events, events were twisted and I actually, in some smaller instances. Yeah. Was made to feel like, wait, like maybe it didn't happen or maybe he didn't mean it that way. Like I was starting to second guess my own judgment, which I think is very unsafe. Yeah. So I'm appreciative that it was caught on camera, that the public resonated with it. To your second question, he did reach out to me via text, um, I think maybe a day before his public apology with a voice note that I didn't listen to, but I could see from the summary that it was like, there was an apology. And there was somewhere, um, I, you know, I, I appreciate the apology. I, I, I think like two things, one, like words are one thing. I, I would just really appreciate him like internalizing it and like, just take the lesson and like be different, grow. So the apology itself doesn't really mean a lot to me. I'm also not associated with him. Like I, I, I was associated with him or we had interaction. Um, on decision day and at the reunion, beyond that, we've had no interaction and I obviously would like to keep it that way. Um, but I, I do hope for him that like he grows from this experience. I accept the apology, but like. You didn't like, you weren't waiting around for it. You didn't need it. I wasn't waiting around for it. I had a closure on decision day and maybe additional closure during the reunion. And, and during the reunion, I, I obviously, I got to see the behind the scenes footage, um, and obviously, uh, see him interacting with my mom. So I kind of had to like. Get additional closure, uh, on the chapter with him. Um, so I guess I'll, I'll leave it at that. Okay. And I guess I'm curious overall, we don't get to see everything. Things are edited, like watching it back. Were you happy with what you saw? Did you feel like it was authentic to your experience? And then did you feel like your experience with Sean watching it back? Did it accurately portray overall knowing that we can't see everything, but did you feel comfortable with that? I would say generally, yes. You know, it's obviously. all of the big moments, right? Right. And it's moments strung together to tell a story. And I know I think to tell the most entertaining story. So it's more like if Sean were to be like, yo, it's all bullshit. Don't believe it. It's a TV show. Would you? Yeah. What would you say to that? No, I would disagree. I think it is largely representative of our experience. OK. Yeah. Do you remember the exact moment that you knew the marriage wouldn't work? There wasn't an exact moment. It was it was like a collection of moments. It was like a culmination of moments. One, it was kind of like up and down. This to your question, it gives a lot of the good times were not televised. We had fun moments of connection based on our like similar backgrounds and like inside jokes and just the happier times, which largely were in the last two weeks, to be clear. But there were the moments that didn't make a difference. And so I do think maybe to your question, a more complete story would be to show a more balanced relationship. And that going into decision day, I truly was like, hmm, like I was convicted because I thought, hey, they say marriage is hard. This is really hard. This is really fucking hard. They say marriage is hard. And so, of course, if we're getting married first, of course, it's going to be hard. But it's like, you know, the overall the marriage was just awful. Too difficult. And it was evident that we're just we're just mismatched. Like he is who he is. I am who I am. Like not passing judgment. Like we're just we were just terribly mismatched when it came to the underlying things that I think maybe were a little bit hard for the experts to detect. Did you have moments throughout the process where you were thinking maybe this could end up as a marriage or like where you kind of like, I don't know, trying to convince yourself of like, see. Being the good in moments because you signed up for this. Well, adding to that, there was like it seemed like to be a moment where I'm curious what Sierra asked you, but like where you leaned in. And to Sierra's question, was there like can take us through that? Yeah. So I did. I did lean in partly due to the experts guidance and some of the perspective that they helped me see, which is like, you know, you are matched for a reason. And like just explore. And so I think I had that in mind. And I truly did. I also remember consulting friends who are in arranged marriages or who are products of arranged marriages. Right. Because it's the same concept. And I got to hear from them, which which is really around like, you know, like committing to the process and leaning in and kind of putting yourself aside. And so I think in the latter few weeks, I just kind of had that in mind and I was kind of conducting myself that way. And I will say those were the weeks where I saw Sean like really like soften and there were I didn't there were fewer at least like digs and comments like it was kind of like a different person based on me just almost like I don't want to say killing him with kindness. But I was just like fully leaned in, putting myself aside and we were having a good run. But I will I will say that it kind of felt like I was self-abandoned. A little bit because when he there would be comments made or like I would just like brush them off like, OK, he didn't mean anything by that. Or I just felt like I wasn't being authentically myself. Right. I wasn't I felt like I was almost like performing a little bit with good intention and with with my whole heart. But I didn't it didn't feel natural. And like I really, really I really want and wanted something that was natural. I can imagine that can be a very difficult, you know, to try to know the difference. What, if anything, about this experience, have you learned about yourself as a partner, as a dater? That's an adjustment that you think that you maybe have already made or are planning on making that you think will make you a better partner growing forward in any relationship you are in. Yeah, that's a really good question, because I definitely feel like I learned so much. And it's like experience is the best teacher. And sometimes like hard. Hardship or difficulties are the best teachers. I would say one, I came into this thinking that I was like a really good communicator and I learned that like, you know, I could improve. And so the experts did a lot to nudge us to be able to have difficult conversations and or deescalate or to be able to talk about something that I wouldn't normally talk about. I would just be silent on it and like. And none of those, like none of that is healthy in a relationship. So I would say improved communication is one. I would say another is to be more other centered, you know, as someone who's been, you know, single for a long time. I've obviously had relationships, plenty of them, but like not being in an official marriage, I would say that being other centered. So focusing on the other person and in the dynamic and even in a conversation. Right. Exactly. Because I think sometimes when we're in conflict, we're doubling down on like our point of view or our point and we want to make our point. But if you put yourself in the other person's shoes, it forces you to have more compassion. And a lot of times that it prevents all of the conflicts that come up in a relationship. So I would say those are the two big things I'm coming away with. Those are great answers. Does anyone else have any more questions for Nikki before we let her go? Nope. I think we got it. Yeah. I think you're fabulous though. No, truly. Thank you for not settling. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. No, thanks for the time and for the forum. It's a great show. And you two were a very fascinating couple. So thank you. Thank you, Nikki, for taking the time. And I'm glad that you feel good about this experience and best of luck with everything going forward. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. Take care. Bye, Nikki. Bye. So lovely. I forgot what he said to her mom or the interaction. Do you guys remember? Oh, I remember. I remember I blamed her for like keeping them apart and not introducing them, which therefore made the distance because the community should be supporting her and encouraging their relationship to grow versus being kept apart. And honestly, I think there's something to that. Not in their case, but I do think it is important that your community like supports your relationship as long as it's a healthy one, you know, but I'm like, that's so great when your family can be like, you know what? Marriage is hard and this is what you do. But she was like, no, I'm keeping y'all separate for a reason. I don't need. I already know you're going to be disappointed. So I'm not going to set you up for the disappointment. I'm curious. I'm curious for you ladies, everyone in the room. Every family dynamic is different. I get that. But at one point in a relationship where, yeah, you feel comfortable enough to bypass your partner and go directly to their parent and give them a piece of your mind. Never. Yeah. No, that's crazy. And the fact that Sean did that in this relationship with the lack. Of foundation is, is so, I mean, God, like I couldn't talk about a red flag. I wouldn't, you know, we've been together for seven, six, seven, eight years. How long? Six years. Three kids together. Her mom is very, been so helpful. Very part of our family. There's a huge, I would never. Right. Without, without talking to Natalie first. I wouldn't like, yeah. Tori and Felipe is the only scenario where I was like, oh, that kind of makes sense because Felipe's parents were like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. We're like, you just made the biggest mistake of your life. Tori is a gem. And so when the parents are like coming to you, okay, fair. Let's talk a little shit about your sign. But besides that, like leave the parents out of this. Oh my gosh. Like what is going on? That is too weird for me. It's always good when the parent says something where they're like, oh, my son, da, da, da, da. Or like, I've never seen him like this. And you're like, yes. Okay, good. You're on my side. Yes. I'm not going to sit there and be like, you know what he did last night? That really pissed me off. You should say something like. Exactly. Yeah, that's great. Well, we have Sean here, so let's ask him ourselves. Sean, welcome to the show. Nick, good to be here. Thanks for having me. Really excited to have you on, Sean. Thanks for being with us. Let's just start with, we asked Nikki the same question. Now that everything's in the can, we got to see the reunion. I know this has been like over a year in the making. How are you feeling? How are you kind of processing this whole experience and reflecting on it? What the hell was that, Nick? What did I just go through? It was wild. It was insane. I am literally like, I have all the emotions. I'm like, on one way, soberly grateful for the opportunity to try to find the love of my life in a real public way. On the other side, oh my God, Instagram, the chats, the articles, the YouTube videos have gone insane. So I'm trying to manage this space and I'm just overall just grateful for the opportunity to just find the person I was really looking for, which I think is just myself and just trying to be a better man. Be ready for what the love of my life would look like in the future. Well, that's awesome to hear. So overall, like you, if, if you would go back and do it again, you would ultimately do the, you do the experiment. I think I would do the experiment over again if I knew it would guarantee that I would find the love of my life. But as its current status, I would not do that same thing again without the same, without that, that intent. So, you know, I'm a crazy person that was like all in. Would you say you were? Regretted then doing it since you wouldn't do it again. Yeah. well what's the difference no no regrets i don't live in regret i i think everything's a learning experience and so i think some things are meant to be done once no i get that i'm just saying if you had the benefit of like a time machine and you could like you could tap sean on the shoulder and be like don't do it you know like that interstellar moment where like it's him and he's like don't go yeah you know knowing it didn't work out with nikki and obviously there highs and lows, but would you still let Sean go through that experience or would you choose a different path for Sean? If you could go back in time and that, that day you said yes to Meredith at first sight, I guess that's my question. 100% choose it all over again. I'm a romantic. I'm somebody who was looking for love and I'm somebody who was locked in. Cool. All right. That's good to hear. Good to hear. What did, if like, what did you learn about yourself through this experience? Yeah. So number one, I learned relationships are a mirror. So when you have a partner there telling you, this is what you look like, you should probably believe that partner or at least investigate it. Right. And so my first step is to really just accept feedback, right. A little bit more easily. Uh, that made me a better person. Um, and then I also learned that, you know, you should always ask for what you want, you know, don't be afraid. Um, never obviously pressure anybody, but one of the things that I love about being from New York and having East coast energy is that, you know, we're not shy about going for what we want. Um, and coming from Harlem to Washington was such a drastic change in culture and environment that I think that sometimes I was perceived as being, you know, sometimes aggressive or trying to put my partner down or something, but actually I'm used to like family and friends. Like you say what you want. The other person says what they want and you figure out who, who gets it right. Who gets a big piece of chicken and you move forward. But learning to listen to your partner, um, has been a big key learning for me. And it's something that I want to bring into my next relationship. I'm curious. So when you're, when you're talking about like where you're from and just how you, you know, you grew up and how your family speaks to each other. Are you, are you saying that was in terms of how you spoke to Nikki? That's where that was coming from. Is that more of a defense or is it more like you, you know what I'm saying? Or I'm a little confused. Yeah, no, I fully, I fully get you. I think it's how I spoke to everybody on the cast. And I, and I think there was a lot of times where I would say something and it was so direct and on, like on target that people were kind of offended by the fact that I would call out something that's so obvious, but it was so direct. And so therefore the approach sort of negated the message. Right. And so sometimes I had to be more aware of that. Gotcha. I will say you're, you're quite, I mean, I'm all for like bedroom talk and questions, but the mutual masturbation question was crazy. Any regrets there? Let me ask you a question, Nick, and you be honest with me. Have you ever had a conversation with your wife about what to do? What do you do sexually after pregnancy or during pregnancy? I'm just having some fun here, but I think it was the framing of, I'd never said mutual masturbation. Listen, I'm going to be honest with you, man. I definitely would not have taken that approach in the future. And that's something I've learned from just to make sure you're going at the pace of your partner. Sure. But I'm going to tell you this, I'm getting a lot of DMs from couples about the fact that they, they are like married couples actually have conversations about sex when they're in a mood, what they like, they don't like what they want to happen all the time. And it's villainized in some ways, but truthfully, sometimes couples have to have those hard conversations because one person may not be, have, have not been in a mood for months. Uh, and the other person's like sitting here wanting something. Right. So the conversation itself can be a good one. The approach I took, don't do that guys. I got it. No, that's totally fair. And I hear you. And it definitely is important for couples to talk about all aspects of the relationship and definitely how to make each other happy in the bedroom. But, uh, yeah, I was, I was just having some fun with you. We had an opportunity to talk to Nikki. Um, and she brought up the conversation you had with her mom that she was a little caught off by, by, and then she just referenced a big, you know, one of her, uh, appeals to you was, you know, your, your, how family oriented you are and your connection with your family. And I think that's a really good approach. I think as a result, I think she was, I guess, little taken back by seeing the interaction you had with her mom. I do have to like, I've, I've, I've been, my wife's not sitting next to me right now, but, uh, I've, I've a great mother-in-law. Um, she's very helpful. I've been with Natalie for over seven years now. I feel like I'm a really, I have a great relationship with my mother-in-law and I feel like there's a real, there's a real genuine comfort level we have with each other. Like I would never bypass my wife, uh, and like, kind of like, you know, my mother-in-law in the way that you did at any point. But I'm just curious, where did you get that level of comfort? Because that was a pretty direct, you know, and everyone's different, but I was a little surprised by that just from where I standpoint. So I, I, I honestly, I did empathize with, with Nikki's point of view, but maybe you, you saw it differently. Well, it's interesting how, um, you know, I will never be anti Nikki, anti Nikki's mom, anti show. Um, I'm only going to talk about my experience. I was asked during the reunion special to give, um, Nikki's mom an apology. And so it was, I was asked to speak to her. Um, I did not initiate speaking to her. And so secondly, when I was asked to give the apology, I wasn't quite sure what the apology was regarding. Like, I wasn't sure, like, what was the offense that I was being told about? Right. Because a lot of times after these shows go off camera, you know, there are things that are happening that are just not being talked about. And so I'm not sure what Nikki had been telling her mom that I had did or what did not do. And so I wanted to just essentially say, you know, I'd love to know where you found a fault because I want to improve as a man. I want to improve my communication. What was the thing that offended you the most? Right. Cause I want to make sure sometimes when people apologize without a specific thing to apologize for, it can come across as inauthentic. And so I want to know what was the thing that was happening. And then as I was inquiring about the thing that was happening, then I immediately get from the same exact person, Hey, don't talk to my mom. And I was like, Oh, okay. You asked me to talk to her to apologize. And then you asked me not to talk to her when I try to get clarification of what the apology was for. So what I realized was I was in sort of a no-win situation and I wanted to make sure that Nikki and her mom felt safe. So I just rediverted my attention from them to just focusing back on the host and back on the conversation with Nikki. Uh, so I do believe that like, like I talked to my mom this morning, I, I have, um, also surrogate moms who are in the world. I have a lot of great relationships with family and friends and, uh, and positive relationship with, uh, adult women, uh, mature mentoring women in my life. And, um, I like you, Nick. I also would never want to disrespect anybody who I revere and, and who I, uh, admire as my elders and my life. So I have a similar value and I'm sorry it came across that way because that's not what I think was actually communicated, uh, from me. I really want to make sure, uh, Nikki and her mom felt safe and wish, I wish I had more of an opportunity to talk to her earlier in the season. Okay. Uh, Sarah and Susie, any follow-up to that? I'm just going to ask about the, uh, Seattle seven, New York or Seattle 10, New York seven comment. Um, I would love a little bit more clarity about the belly grab or whatever prompted you to say, uh, what you said. And then my follow-up question to that is somebody who seems to really have a stance on emotional intelligence. And I'm just curious as to why your reaction was to make that comment back versus to explain how her actions made you feel. Oh, okay. So I'm excited to talk about this because, um, I do have a little bit of a tell-all coming out very soon to kind of go behind the scenes and color and context. And one of the things I'll be addressing there is this conversation. So I'm gonna give you a little tidbit now. The first night we had intimacy was the same night that we had that conversation. And so what happened was before. Um, we had basically had finally had a night off of filming. It was like eight or nine o'clock and I'm like, Hey, I'm going to go to the hot tub. You want to go? She's like, yeah, sure. Let's go. So we grabbed some, some drinks, went down, had some music, met some other people. It was cool. And I was like, I was like, you know, it's been, you know, great, but like, it seems like you're not really into this. You're not really into me. I've given you two opportunities to leave already. And it seems like you haven't taken it. So I'm going to just do it one more time. Let's take all the gloves off. Tell me exactly what you feel. And so we can get it out in the open and have the conversation and we can move forward from here. And so she goes, okay, grabs my belly and goes, look at you, look at you. And so we agreed it was going to be a roast session with the gloves off. And so I'm like, oh, you're roast. Now my turn to roast. Okay. You're walking around here thinking you're all that. You're not all that. Right. So I go into my New York. I know how to roast. You want to roast? I'm roasting back. And we agreed it would be a mutual roast battle. Whose idea was it to do the roast? We agreed to take the gloves off. We said, let's talk about everything that's bothering us. Who had the idea? Someone had the idea. You didn't come up with the idea. I said, let's, let's talk about everything that's bothering us. And let's have no fear about what we're talking about. So it was your idea. And it was definitely communicated that it was mutual. It wasn't just like, I want to hear what you are struggling with from her perspective. No, no. Because literally I said, let's figure out what's going on here. Why are we here? And then she agreed. Yeah, let's talk about it. So once we agreed on that, if I said, let's talk about it. And she said, let's not talk about it. We would not have talked about it. But I said, let's talk about it. She goes, yeah, let's talk about it and then she started off right so she began the roast and then we go back and forth and then at the end we were laughing we were having a good time and then as we're ending the laughing at the pool we're walking back upstairs i said okay cool i'm ready to call the producers i'll tell them we're done and she's like no no no what what do you mean i'm like well did we not just both agree that we're not each other's types she goes no i don't want to quit i don't want to quit and i'm like what and then that was the first night we had intimacy so i'll leave it there for a minute put in that for now well are you writing a book or something i am writing a book that has nothing to do with this the conversation right now but i uh i do have a tell-all that's going to be coming out soon where you'll get some more color and context what do you mean a tell-all i mean we're here son like let's give it to us right now there's no bigger there's no bigger platform no i'm certainly i'm certainly aware that this is the biggest platform of all um but but i also would say that um you know it's it's important for me to tell um more of the story that it's going to be longer than the time in front of this interview right um so um there's gonna be an opportunity to hear more color context and some comedy around it too and it's not going to be anti nikki anti show it's all going to be just what does sean experience where can people find that coming soon to a platform near you okay um going back to your relationship with nikki what do you think nikki misunderstood the most about you um i don't think she misunderstood anything about me i i like to validate people in their understanding of things and i feel like what nikki understood to be true about me was true for her and if i have not learned anything more in this whole experiment is that you validate people's perceptions you validate validate validate so i i don't have anything to defend or to prove differently than how she understood me to be um and i still feel really grateful to have met her i think she's a quality person who is beautiful on the outside and really has a lot of love to give and so i really hope she finds uh the perfect person for her there's obviously so many couples in so many scenes but like am i misremembering like did you not get upset about the belly comment didn't did we or was that in my miss oh no no i was never upset about it okay no that that i i was like let's take that let's have a roast we were laughing the conversation wasn't as presented it wasn't like i said the tenants in seattle seven and whatever and then all of a sudden she started crying or sad no we were jabbing back and forth and it was hilarious like we were literally roasting each other in a funny way well then why the point where it was just like all right cool why did you say that you were going to tell the producers you're you're broken up because we had just gone through about six or seven bullet points of why we weren't compatible with each other but i thought it was a roast yeah and the roast proved that we literally weren't into each other right so i was like well it sounds like you're not into me and maybe i'm you're you're you're like your story is like hey i like roast and and yeah the whole premise of a roast is you get your bunch of friends together and you really you're kind of you know you you point out each other's flaws but it's it's from a loving and you set it you set it up and you know saying hey let's just put it all on the table what do we like pros and cons but like wasn't it meant to be like to kind of address differences but like knowing there's love there and because the way you the way you pitch it to me it sounds like it's a safe space to be on the table and be open and then you were like there's so much there we should break up it was a little am i am i am i not making sense suzy's here am i confusing yeah no no i think you're making a lot of sense actually i think it's um you know the kind of roast which i won't go into for some of those details but i some of the roasts that were being said from her end were clear to me that i was not the person she was looking for and so at the end of the roast it was clear to me that even though we were laughing and having a good time you're saying things that are literally deal breakers for you so this is a sign that we are we can just part as friends like we were laughing and it was like let's just kind of be friends and just move on forward from here i think it's the perfect opportunity let's call it she laughed when you called her a new york seven we were both going back and forth laughing and jabbing the entire time okay and what were the you can't can you share any things that she was like that she said that you were like oh you we can't be together if you watch mattel all you can learn you can't even tell me where to find it sean well i can i can tell you this i can tell you this that was a very friendly night and we had intimacy shortly after that roast right so you don't have intimacy after a roast if you know the night that you all saw in that one episode with me coming out of the room with my robe that was the same night as a roast you don't have that unless there was some kind of friendliness and kindness happening before that right so um i i want to be clear you know i don't think um you know one thing we talked about earlier in the show was um you know a lot of stuff we were doing off camera um nikki had asked you know please don't share that on camera and i agreed and i never did but then she brought up the you know the 10 7 comment on camera when i shared that off camera right so um i was feeling a little betrayed by that and then i realized oh okay i have to be really careful obviously what i say what's what's happening what's around but it was just constantly that feeling of just like okay let me make sure i'm looking out for myself protecting my words um and that's something i didn't do very well um and so to do it all over again i would do it differently but certainly i know that both nikki and i did the best we could with how to be on tv for the first time so with having had that conversation and you ending it with the idea that you guys should leave the show or whatever what made you not only get intimate but also continue on the journey if you felt that you both weren't compatible with each other that night of intimacy was the first step from her to actually try to be fully all the way into the marriage and i saw her try um and i have to give her a lot of credit for that i think she really tried and i think she was really surprised by the level of compatibility that we had physically and i think it led her to actually began to do other things outside of physical that were more like typical wife wifely um you know type of behavior or whatever you will be careful no but like literally like like just imagine this right the the week after the intimacy happens all of a sudden now she's like going grocery shopping bringing in food she's like she's you know using my credit card for that and she's like checking in on me while i'm at work how's your day going that had never happened before that moment right all these things started happening that i was like oh like that this is what i've been looking for right and so when that started happening that was so exciting for me it made me feel like okay maybe this could actually be a thing gotcha and did you genuinely think that there was an opportunity for you and um for you and nikki to end up married to each other yeah i mean the i was all in from the beginning so i'd like i like until that moment where i offered her like the last chance to get out i had said i'm committed day every day i brought coffee every morning i brought flowers every week i made sure she was good at work i gave her my credit card information for groceries i showed up as a husband every single day and i i've learned from some of the best men in the world and so i know how to be a consistent reliable partner and yes i've made mistakes in front of everybody in the world on camera but i'm the type of person that owns my mistakes and i move forward from them and i get better from them so she saw that every single day and i have all to be proud of for doing that i have a question i'm curious because i feel like i've been in relationships where i have an experience and then me and that person discuss the experience and we have completely different takeaways and we're like okay we experience that and perceive that so differently and everyone says there's your truth my truth and then the real truth obviously the the wifely duties comment when that aired and i we saw that you addressed that on instagram um which we i think appreciated the apology and the acknowledgement as you know viewers but i'm curious like watching this back were there moments where you saw things and you were like oh you know what like i perceive that entirely different and moving forward i'm gonna be more aware that sometimes our own biases get in the way of like absorbing reality at times is that something that you is that a takeaway that you had or or do you still sort of feel like misunderstood or that you sort of like stand your ground with certain aspects of those conversations yeah i mean i'll be honest with you i i've never used the word misunderstood i won't say that i don't think that's my experience i think what people saw was their reality and i accept that as valid i also accept that like what i experienced in that reality was also very valid and i think you can have two different truths that are completely on opposite sides of the perspectives depending on the person and because you might see it from one way and it looks a certain color and i see it from another way and it looks a certain color right so i i no longer sorry for jumping in uh but i guess do you accept other people's experiences as truth to it and and have they in any way bled into your experiences more like uh oh that's valid um as maybe some constructive feedback yeah i have an amazing support network with my family and friends we do weekly family calls um i have a great group of guys i meet with every tuesday i i receive feedback on a constant basis and many of them if not all of them have watched the show and given me feedback right so um i'll be honest with you it's almost like concentric circles where the closer you are to my actual heart the more likely the feedback gets into my heart right if i don't know you and you're a stranger who's commenting on my instagram post i don't know if that's going to be how i'm going to rely on getting feedback about my life that's fair that's fair so you know, it's all about just the closeness and relationships. And luckily, I have a community that's been strong before I got to the show and that remains strong after. So I constantly get feedback. And I actually believe that one of the things that I would have loved to be a part of the process would have been more consistent feedback from experts or people who knew us well to tell us how we were showing up in the relationship, because us doing it by ourselves and then doing it in group dinners with people that we also just met about getting feedback, it felt like there was more opportunity to use people that were closer to our inner concentric circle to actually get some honest feedback. But I take good feedback from them and I have changed and adapted my communication based on those that love me and care about me. Any of those people give you feedback on like, you have a tendency of competing with your partner? I think most of my feedback from people were about just being sure that you are always validating your partner. Validating your partner, right? And just staying focused on that. And I think that has been probably the number one piece of critical feedback that has informed me and shaped me the most. Gotcha. Okay. You know, like yourself, I have an amazing male role model in my father. And as a young man, I felt like I was a really well-intentioned guy, you know, and I wanted to show up and I had this desire to be a great partner. But it took some humbling and going on seeing myself and life experiences that well-intentioned or not, I had to learn about some of my flaws and something, you know, watching you again, you seem like a very intelligent man. You seem like, again, well-intentioned, like you seem like you want to, you know, dig deep both with your partnering yourself. But it came across oftentimes that you like, it was more on a competition level with Nikki, like you were almost trying to one-up her at times. Is that just my lived experience or is it, do you feel like, is there accuracy there watching it back? And is that fair criticism or am I off base? No, I think it's, I think it's an accurate experience of yours and many people. I think that's been a lot of the commentary online as well. No, but am I just projecting or do you, do you, again, that's kind of a, like a, to say it's my lived experience is kind of a, I don't, I don't know, kind of. Does it feel like a cop-out now? It's a little dismissive. Yeah. And listen, maybe, maybe you can be like, yo, listen, like, you're way off base. Again, I haven't met you. I don't know you. This is my only chance to get to know you. It is an edited TV show, but so I am just curious, am I projecting my experiences on watching you, which definitely happens in reality TV or is that feedback? Do you think that is fair? Yeah. I mean, look, I don't, I don't know how to say this without it sounding like I'm being dismissive of you, but I'm not, I really honestly think you said, is that my lived experience or is that how you are perceived, like, you know, receiving a criticism? And I'm saying, yes, like, yeah, that is, I totally agree with you. Like, that is how people have perceived that. And I'm not going to invalidate that. Like, I would say it this way for me. Well, I could be wrong. I mean, like, again, I could just be wrong. And that might, well, let me offer, let me offer this. Let me offer this. I don't think anybody is wrong about their perspective. I think your perspective is based on what you've been informed by. And if you're informed by what you see in those words trigger a certain feeling in you, I validate that. That's a hundred percent fair for you to feel that way. I never will invalidate that. Number two, I would say this as well. I literally, my friends and family who know me the most, know me well enough to know that I would not compete with a partner or a woman that I'm dating. If I'm presenting information in a strong way, it's because I'm attracted to people who are strong women. Similar to Nikki, I have dated like similar, like sort of boss babes who are like really good at dating. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's good at their job and really high performing, high level. And because of that, I'm typically used to sort of the more bantery. I say my thought, my opinion, you say yours, and we agree to where we find the middle ground. I, I have rarely been in situations where I say my strong opinion and then it's perceived as, uh, being an attack or being an indictment on the other person's opinion. It's like, no, no, I can say I like green beans while you say you like corn. And we can both have those two worlds that exist at the same time. And so I do think that sometimes the perception of me offering a different strong opinion than my partner's is competition or combative. But the truth is I come from a background where people are very open and expressive and we do it with care because we don't think that being nice is the way to go. We think that being kind is actually saying you got something in your teeth and I'm going to tell you about it. And so that's the way that I choose to live this world. No, I mean, I hear you in all that I have 10 brothers and sisters and we're very direct and I'm a very direct person. And, uh, I hear a lot of what you're saying. Um, I guess it's just more like I've had to learn. And again, maybe I'm just projecting, um, that sometimes my honesty in, in relationships, as I had the privilege and opportunity to look back on things again, like I like to argue, I like to debate, but like it, what I realized that sometimes turned into like a competition of being right. And, you know, and especially like when you have, you know, you have a lot of people that are, you know, have a partner that you like to banter with and, and, and there's a, you know, you can be attracted to other people who have a similar competitive energy to you unintentioned or not. It can turn into, if you kind of like let that go. And I had to learn that, um, you know, it can turn into some competitive conversations, whether like, you know, not that I would ever say, oh, I'd ever compete with my, you know, my, my partner, but I think it happened unintentionally more times than I realized. And I had to realize that about myself. And yeah, it just seems like maybe you're not there. Well, I would say this, you know, um, I'm certainly not perfect and I'm certainly not, um, I'm certainly not all the way healed. Um, um, I'm healing, I'm growing, I'm learning. And Nick, I probably have a lot to learn from you from based on what you've experienced, right? So I'm open to always learning from people and I'm always open to learning about how people perceive me because relationships are mirrors and mirrors show you who you really are. Right. So I'm always open to that, but I would say this, like, you know, um, I can validate and see your point about how debates can turn into competition and trying to prove who's right. Like that makes a lot of sense to me. Um, and I would say this because I do know that, and I do feel that in my body when I'm actually in the debate, uh, a lot of times, um, you know, what I don't think could be captured as well are moments where literally I acquiesce and I say, yeah, I don't need to win this. Like I'm good. Like you win every argument. It's you. And, and, and you'll notice that a lot of times when conversations were brought up about problems in the relationship, I think you'll notice that it was pretty much one-sided. I had never really brought up. This is what I think you're doing wrong. Even though I could have easily said, this is what I think is wrong. So, um, I certainly, um, want to learn. I want to grow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You think I found ways to do what you said? Yeah. I felt like you found your ways to, I felt like we were aware of your feelings about Nikki. What were my feelings about Nikki? I mean, we, I, you know, I don't want to say, but like you both like, listen, like you both were not like you had your, you know, as you said, neither, you know, and that's okay. It's okay to like, not, but I'm just saying, I think we, we learned about things that you didn't love about Nikki through this process, um, without, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, you found your way. Yeah, certainly. But, you know, but the way, the way I bring it up, Nick is, by directly saying, Hey, you know, I'd love to talk to you about this. This is what I'm concerned about. This is what I'm thinking about. Right. Um, I am not going to start out by saying, Hey, I'm so embarrassed to say this because I'm going to embarrass you tonight. Or, Hey, you know, you never have my back. You never defend me. I would never bring it up in a way that's going to put my partner at an odds. I want my partner to align with me. Right. So like you said, I found ways, but the ways I tried to find were by just, addressing directly. I'm concerned. This is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm noticing. Am I right about that? Clarify for me. Did it land? Do you feel like it landed? Absolutely not. I mean, we're not married. No. Yeah. I didn't work. Yeah. I'm, you know, and I really appreciate you taking the time, Sean, and, and, uh, allow us to ask these questions. I think it's just the point I'm trying to get across is, and I've been there. I'm still there. You know, we're all work in progress as you, as, as you've pointed out, but I think for people who are, who like to argue, they're, they're, they're used to arguing. You know, they're, I like to argue. I like to debate. I like to discuss a lot of, a lot of us, uh, like to be right. And, and often are. And I think sometimes we get good at explaining why we like, why we didn't intend it for it to land the way that we did. And I think sometimes we've gotten really good at explaining ourselves, explaining that we come from a certain family or that our brains work a certain way. I agree. I agree. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you seem really good at that. Um, and you still seem good at that a year later. And you seemed really good at it while dating Nikki in a way that I think it would be frustrating from Nikki's standpoint, because it's like, it's like, I'm not doing it like you, I'm doing it better, even in your explanation of how you do things. And that can get a little old. And I wonder if, yeah, that's, I guess my point. I hear you. I mean, again, I'm not going to disagree with anything you say or invalidate you. Cause I, I, I think you have, I think you have a valid point. I think there's a lot of things that I am learning growing in. And I think getting better at not debating, not trying to win, not trying to compete. Those are all things I want to be better at 1000%. Right. And so I come from this position of, yeah, I didn't do that experiment. Great. And there were a lot of things that could have been a lot better that I wanted to work and improve on. And I actively work on with my men's group and my family and my friends and people that care about me. I actively work on it all the time. And so please don't hear my comments to you as this position I'm taking of holding firm to like, I did things better than Nikki. No, that's not my position. My position is I'm still learning and growing. And yeah, there might be some things that you saw last year that you feel like you see now that may be the same in five years. And there's some things that may be changing in the next five minutes. But all of it is part of the growth. And I just want to be a human and normal in this experiment. And that's tried to bring my most authentic self. Are you in a relationship? Today, I will not be commenting on any relationship status. Cameras aside, would you go through matchmaking again? Or do you think that relationships, you just need to sort of feel that like je ne sais quoi in person? Like, would you let somebody set you up again? Or do you do you just want to figure this out for yourself? Yeah, I'm, I'm open. I'm kind of one of those people that like, I follow that intuition that tells me where to go. Like, even joining this, I think I was the last applicant of the 105,000 applicants for Married at First Sight because it was the last day and they were like, Dr. Best, where have you been? Can you come tomorrow? It's our last day of filming. And I'm like, okay. And so I follow the intuition. If it's matchmaking again, sure. If it's a friend setting me up, sure. But it's got to feel right in here before it's right as a decision out there. Sean, I appreciate you taking the time. And thanks for asking our questions. And good luck with the everything and your tell-all. And maybe we'll get more tea. Awesome. And Nick, what show are you on? I don't think I know this. I was The Bachelor a long time ago. Oh, okay. Cool. Very nice. Sorry. I just, I'm not, I wasn't a reality TV person before the show and I'm not one now. So nice to meet you. Hopefully I get to meet you in person. Likewise. Now that you've been on reality TV, you'll appreciate the, the reality scene more. It's interesting to watch through the lens of a former reality person. If you're willing, Sean, it's. It's, uh, you can really learn about the human experience and, um. Well, Nick, I, I need you to, all that wisdom you were sprinkling earlier about Sean, how you need to work on yourself. Let's hang out. I'm not saying you need to work on yourself. I was just curious of just kind of where you're at. That's all. I'm not here to tell you what to do. Nah, nah, you dropped it on me. So we got to kick it, have a beer. We got to talk about it. I support this. I think you guys need to go out for a drink. I support it. That's right. That's right. Sounds great. All right, my guy. Sean, thanks for taking the time. Best of luck with everything. I really appreciate you. Yeah, same. All right. Thank you all. Thank you, Sean. Nice to meet you. We wish you the best. Thank you. Nice to meet you as well. Bye-bye. Woo! That was wild. How do we feel, ladies? Um. That was loaded. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys understand what I was saying? Like, he just, like, he just keeps just. Yes, I do. You know, it's like, he's like, I didn't do this. I did that. But, like, you, you know. Well, here's how I thought. I didn't want to say it because I'm like, I feel like he's not here to, like, be critiqued, but how I felt, and I do have questions. I do have compassion for him. I actually do think he wants to be a better person. He wouldn't be in a men's group reading books. He wouldn't be doing those things if he didn't, like, want to grow. But it's hard because every time he gives a response to something, he finds a way to take a little dig. And it's like, okay, your apology or your addressing that issue now sort of means less because you just took a little dig with it. And it's like, oh, just own it. It feels like the self-growth more, it comes out as, like, ammunition. Yes, it does. You know? It's like, I'm doing this, and I'm doing this, and, you know, this is your. It's so condescending, his, like. It is. I don't mean it that way, but I just don't think it lands. He just doesn't see how it lands. I know. Well, it was bothering me during the interview when he kept bringing up the fact that she was intimate with him as if it was, like, a. Validation. Yeah, like a goalpost, or like, well, yeah, she might have felt this way. I've always been all in, but she was intimate, she was intimate, she was intimate. And the whole thing was. I was like, obviously I'm going to ask about the intimacy. Right. Basically, he set it up as, like, well, yeah, it didn't come across the way because what you didn't get to see is it was, like, my idea to do a roast. I come from a family of roasters, essentially, is what he's saying. And then we all had fun, and then she'll. So she started, then she roasted me, and then, like, professional. It was professional roaster's turn, so I let her have it. And it's like, well, it was your game. It was your idea. Yeah. You know? And then, like, and then by your own admission, you're like, I'm, like, I was raised in this shit. I don't want to be with this person. Oh, yeah. You know? I'm a pro here. And then I. It was like, wait, this isn't. I don't know. It was like. It was the same behavior from the reunion where it was, like, instead of taking accountability or, you know, everything was, like, an explanation more so. Like, it was like, I was validated in why I did what I did because what you didn't see. And it's like, well, there's a reason why we didn't see that. So I'm just kind of, like, again, where I'm like, yes, it makes more sense that if you guys were going back and forth in an honesty, honesty conversation and she was like, I'm not attracted to you and that hurt your feelings, but you guys were allowed to lightly insult each other, then I'm like, okay, yeah, there's context from that conversation that's definitely taken out of place that doesn't make it seem so insane for you to say something like that. But I'm just kind of, like, nothing's making sense to me. Like, if you came to the conclusion that you two should not be together or that was what she was saying post-roast, then why did you want to be intimate with her that night? Why did you want to carry on this experiment if you think that someone's not attracted to you, you guys aren't compatible, that you guys went through nine bullet points of why it didn't work, and then you guys went all the way to the end to not get married knowing you weren't going to get married? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, even their final day together when they make the decision, it, like, kind of started out a little bit nice, and then it was, like, downhill. Yeah, and I will say I think she led with some of her pain points. Understandably, I feel like she was misunderstood a lot during the experience and was, like, struggling. But then it was, like, it is very condescending the way when he responded back to her, I was just like, oh, my God, this is so brutal. Like, he just needs to take the dig back, and he couldn't just accept it or say his feelings. Or be the bigger person and be like, okay. Yeah, I'm so sad that this is how it's made you feel. I don't think it's gaslighting, but the way he just talks around things and just has a way of making whoever he's talking, you know, feel like. I think it's important to validate your partner. I think it's important that when somebody shares their perspective, it's nice to be able to say, I hear your perspective. I might disagree, but X, Y, and Z. But when you guys were having this discussion, Nick, for, like, 45 minutes, it was almost like he validated, it's like his defense mechanism was to be like, I'm going to let you think whatever you want because you're allowed to think that, and then at the same time invalidate what you're saying by saying, oh, well, everyone's perception is real. It's like, yeah, but you can have. Just tell me I'm wrong. Just tell me I got it wrong. Maybe it's the edit, maybe, you know, whatever. I don't, I just have, just. Anyway. Because then you never get to the root problem of it because you're just, like, validating surface level. And I couldn't imagine if that was like, you know, again, I'm just, he doesn't owe me anything. But if I was in a relationship with that, trying to get to the bottom of something, I can see how you would never get there. You'd never get to the bottom. But even, like, just to compare a couple, but I was like, I feel like Adam and Marissa were kind of, kind of in the same boat, right? Where it's like, they have a lot of incompatibilities, but had a mutual respect for each other, even their breakup. It started off with, like, so nice, so nice, so nice. And then here are the cons. And this is why we're not going to get together. But it was like, Adam accepted what she was saying. Marissa accepted what Adam said. Like, and it was kind of like an, okay, like, amicably split, but we still have respect, hug, love, bye. Yeah. Where it was just kind of like the second that Sean felt insulted or taken back by something. And that Nikki said, it was like, all right, well, and also here's the other one. And then we're going back and forth to where it just like, progressively gets more and more toxic. Yeah. That I'm just like, it doesn't need to end like that. But it's just like, if you're not willing to hear any type of criticism without taking it as an attack that deserves a reaction back, then I'm like, yeah, this is how your interactions are going to go. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed those interviews. Fascinating stuff from, from both of them. So I hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Thank you to all our guests, Brooke, Marks, Nikki, and Sean. We appreciate them all. I appreciate you guys listening. Don't forget to tune in tomorrow. We have Corbin, uh, he's not an AI. He's a real person and he is in studio. We had an opportunity to interview him following the filming of the reunion. And it was a great sit down with Corbin to learn about just the man behind the, uh, chat GPT voice, his whole experience in the villa. We get to the bottom of a lot of topics and I'm excited for you guys to hear it. That is all tomorrow. And then we have another. Jam-packed episode on Thursday with more cast members from married at first sight and more. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.