E1179 - Let's Marry Harry Finalists & Kelsey Darragh

[Music] What's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the Bob Files reality recap edition I'm your host Nick join by my wonderful gorgeous amazing um life I enjoy she's here with her daughter Iris we're doing our best uh we have a fantastic episode lined up for you the ladies the finalists of let's marry Harry amber salmon to know are with us later this episode to unpack all the drama of let's marry Harry the reunion aired last night we had him in studio like fuck right that like they basically record the reunion and then they came into our studio it looked like they went through it but there was a lot of drum and unpack I guess there was some you know amber and and now got into it yeah at the reunion they unpacked it on the couch salmon sitting in between them it was amazingly awkward classic it into obviously they have a lot to say about Harry which is unsurprising uh but it is a fantastic episode I can't wait for everyone to listen to that but before we get to the ladies of let's marry Harry we have Kelsey Darup hey if you've been with us for a long time Kelsey uh was a guest maybe six seven years ago we were an acting class together way back in the day we were are you still acting out there or what happened I mean like I guess the occasional audition I'm you know I'm booked and busy right now with the podcast and be glad so you know I've uh how is his craft Kelsey you know he was he took it very seriously I remember our acting coach was like I'm gonna put you with him because I feel like you're gonna be able to just like talk to him straight about it and I was really prepared for a different kind of human but he took it very seriously I was like okay okay I mean you know I'm not here to fuck around you know I'm here to put Josh I'm a bestian yeah he learned his lines okay that was big time I always had a what what what what what did they say I have a beginning thought or something what what what's my the thought before have your before moment yeah welcome back Kelsey uh Kelsey has a new book idea that I I think all you will appreciate in the relationship space don't do what I did break up and bounce back that is a great title yeah yeah what you do what didn't I do Nick I've done everything the wrong way I mean from the social stocking to showing up on announced at houses to completely ghosting motherfuckers like I've done it all I've put it in this book that's also a science-backed workbook so it's fine you open any page it's for the heartbroken it's for the relationship it's for anyone that's embarrassed by yes the things that they've done and want to get out of that rut so check it out was that so fun to go back in your memory brain I honestly had to book so many therapy appointments in between writing and looking back at like my 20s you know to just see all the crazy shit I did I could not believe your brave the truly going back into your 20s I'm documenting it yes proud of you but I really I just wanted to figure out like why it fucked me up so bad like why break ups absolutely obliterated me and so I really wanted to get down to like the science of it and understand what was happening in the body in the brain and so that was really fun that kept me sane yeah like being able to fix the broken pieces the broken pieces were we're sharp and scary and messy and had a lot of come all over them and I had to really kind of put that together back did you what was that what was that what was the one one of the most surprising things you learned man it I did not treat break ups as seriously as they need to be treated like I did not understand that your brain treats a breakup the same way it treats a death like it is a literal grieving process and you get addicted to a person the same way and addict can get addicted to drugs or alcohol and so when we are cut off from our source our drug dealer aka our ex we go through it draw and I felt crazy like break ups made me crazy and so putting it in that frame and understanding again like what the brain is doing what the body is reacting to I was like oh I have an addiction and I need to treat it as such during a breakup so that was really revelatory for me the worst part you know not that we're wishing death on our exes at all but the problem with it feels like death but they're still around they're still there and they're still posting and psychologically it's like you know torture torture yeah yeah and we didn't have this problem before social media too so like all the stuff that now we have access to it's very hard and so I wanted to write this for the people that knew that it was hurting deeper than they were willing to admit and the people that really wanted to figure out how to fix it and you know make a healthy relationship moving forward is it out is available to order right now preorder it is it we are just out and you can get it wherever you buy your books and can we listen if we are a audio book is coming this fall okay oh yeah but this is one of those books that even if you want to listen to probably good to get the paperback because like you said it's something you want to page through there's lessons yeah it's got exercises journal entries games like a big thing with my first book was like I wanted it to be fun and funny so that worked really well so for the second book I wanted to make sure that even when you're crying screaming throwing up on the floor or you know in a place where you don't want to dive into the pain I wanted there to still be something fun and funny and light and like a game to participate with that that could still be something that's healing but not so traumatic well we will have the the link of the book in our show bio so check out the book so buy subscribe not subscribe bye hi you get some ribbon it's with great sadness obviously the world everyone knows about this but dolly parton passed which is tragic oh my god river this was a new thing in river's life was introducing dolly parton and I've never seen a two-year-old take to such legend I mean it's not surprising but my sister gifted her this book of dolly parton and it's like her autobiography it's the cutest thing ever but she this is her reading it so this is her just like reading the book just like obsessed with dolly parton and then of course we were in the car and the you know dolly parton's playing on the radio and they've got a picture of her and she just says out of nowhere it's I will always love you and she's just like hi dolly parton and then I take her the grocery store and dolly parton's picture is still on there and the same thing in the car and I play it like what to and I have your vocal stand truly we are grateful for dolly parton for touching her daughter's heart and she will be a fan forever but it's just dolly parton one of the absolute legends of America incredibly talented I don't think people appreciate how talented dolly parton was I mean acting performing song songwriting I mean the I think she's got thousands he also did so many things for children her father couldn't read is this right and she like sent out all of these books tell the all of these children her her younger siblings she like took in all her younger siblings when she got married to Carl Dean and took care of them and beautiful soul beautiful soul also Tim Curry passed away uh yeah you may not know him by his name but everyone knows him from home alone too include a comedic genius uh it's so many great characters he played pennywise an it's a original picture show wow drag queen yes was he also 80 they were both 80 years old oh wow both 80 the grim reaper just taken all the whimsy from the world honestly the wrong one you know what I mean wrong target well you know I have other choices I would choose Tim Curry and dolly parton weren't top of the list I play that much really sad also recently Hayden penitere as well younger one which is tragic all all legends all legends all legend all sparkle well all of these people obviously gone too soon and just sending love to all of their families they will be remembered fondly by all of us and it's always sad to see legends no longer with us uh if you are following the Lindsey Clancy case we had a fantastic episode I'm afraid to ask you Kelsey I've gone too far I need someone actually to call somebody because I am on tick-tock to the point where you need to listen to our episode yesterday we had Dr. Curry on a forensics psychologist she's I think world renowned I don't know a very impressive guest and we obviously because there's so much information on tick-tock about this case and so much misinformation we talked with her in great length about obviously just postpartum and how that works you know we're going through it right now you know what's what's accurate what's not accurate how you can be a supportive partner etc etc but she also covers in great detail the merits of this case case from a from a professional lens. And if you are down a rabbit hole on TikTok and you're not sure what's true or you're arguing with your friends, give it a listen. I think you might learn a lot. I am, you know, this is just my opinion. But the latest expert on this case, I think I think she's going to lose her case. I thought it was really interesting the doctor who we talked about with Dr. Curry. Basically, the voice is she claims that she's heard. She only heard them for the 18 second, for the 18 minutes in which she did this horrible thing. And the this world-renowned psychologist was like, that's just very rare. And honestly, based off this, just my humble opinion, prop could be wrong. I think she made up the voices. - Hmm, there's a lot too about postpartum that is misunderstood or not even known. And what's bothered me about this case is they have clowns up there acting like they are talking about postpartum from an expert standpoint. And it's like the basic knowledge. I personally know people who have gone through psychosis of postpartum induced or otherwise. And they won't remember a lot of things or they think they have done things that they haven't done. Like, I'll be like, oh, did you do this? And they'll be like, yeah, that was me. And I'm like, no, it wasn't. And so just the nuance feels like it's missing. So deeply and I feel so terrible for her because I can only imagine how scary it is going through her. But what I think the light at the end of the tunnel with a case this big is people are curious about postpartum in a way that we've never really seen before. And postpartum psychosis is such a shameful thing that is so terrifying and scary for a mom to talk about openly that I think if there's a light at the end of the tunnel, it's that there's gonna be a little bit more conversation and nuance around that. - The only thing, and I think Dr. Curry pointed this out, is that the hope is that that interest in the awareness of postpartum remains after the fascination with the case goes away. So it'll go away and then the next crazy story will come out and people will hyperfocus on that. And the fear is that it's more about the case than the awareness of postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. And to your point, yes, there's no real bright spot in this case, but if there is more awareness for the suffering moms, and there are so many, and millions out there who deal with this, who don't do what Lindsey did. And hopefully that awareness remains after the case ends 'cause it's gonna end soon, but I don't know. I think she's gonna be found guilty and go to jail. - Jail, I don't think she's either in jail or amending. - Well, that's without question that she's not getting out, but I mean, that psychologist, that was a damning testimony. - Him basically saying in my 20 plus years of experience, this is, I haven't really seen this before and this doesn't really track with the other, patients I've treated who have heard these types of voices and things like that, who knows what the jury's gonna come up with, but that's, it kind of implies that she made up the voices. Did she say that she heard physical, because in psychosis, there is like a narrator. There is someone talking to you, but it's like your inner voice versus like a schizophrenia where you're hearing an outside, like a man's voice. - Well, my understanding of the confusion, and again, I might get this wrong. Listen to the interview with Dr. Curry. But a lot of people are confusing the fact that she went to her husband and said, "I have these intrusive thoughts. I have these negative thoughts about doing things to my kids and doing things to myself." That is not the same, is I have, I'm hearing voices telling me to do something and people are confusing the two, and they're not the same. And her argument is like, I did it because of these voices, but she only heard these voices. - But that is a good question that Kelsey has, is like, is, was it other people's voices in her head? Or was it like, yeah, that is the same guy? - Or, like, how willing are you to say, like, I'm having these intrusive thoughts, and like, my mind is telling me to do these things. You're not really gonna say, like, I'm hearing someone else's voice, 'cause you're gonna be called crazy. - Well, that's true. I mean, Dr. Curry talked about that that sometimes, people who hear this, they won't, you know, it's part of the paranoia, they won't say it, but in the evaluation after the act happened, that was her story, and she stuck with that story. - She did tell someone right after in one of these evaluations, like that her kids were safe now, which does connect with hearing voices. - It's a sad situation, obviously, and just sending love to the families affected by this. Yeah, it's really gone off the rails. That there's a now writer for Vanity Fair, who's claiming to be a childhood friend, who got fired from, she got fired from Vanity Fair, because she's in court smiling. - Oh, that was actually psychopathic behavior. - No, yeah, that was the clip. - You've seen a camera painting to her? - Oh my God. - That's like something out of smile too. Like, get that girl. Did you see her explanation, Kelsey? - What was it? - Oh, she said that her dad saw her, in the news coverage, and was like, "Hey, you look too serious." Like, maybe you should smile. - No, no, no, it wasn't just her dad. It was her dad in Hillary Duff's styleist. I mean, how does Hillary Duff catch a stray? - Don't drag her into this. - First, the mom or the friend group now, this. - We take catch break. - But yeah, totally on the show. - She needs to stop looking so serious. - Yeah, but that's a comedic version of advice. Like, that's gone too far. Like, getting an improv troupe. Do something beneficial with your time. - But the way that the people have lost this plot, there's this horrible situation and people are using it to their own personal benefit and sensationalizing it and receiving attention off of this, if it's gross. I mean, we just get off your phone's people. Like, you know. - I think it's the social media. - No, it's all for sure. - It's like, look at Casey Anthony, right? She's come back all these years later. - She stands with Lindsey. - Imagine. - She what? - Of course. - Yeah. - Yeah. - She's a mom advocate. Like, if that would have, if social media would have been around during her trial, I can't even imagine. - Oh, man. - So true. - Well, we haven't talked about the double lives of suburban wives in a bit. You've been watching Kelsey. Isn't it just a beautiful, wonderful show about? - The perfect reality show. - It's amazing. - We've been missing something like this with real people, real families. They look real. They look like Americans. I am obsessed as an understatement. Do you guys love it? - Natural milk. - How? - A credible. - Okay, I'm over that. - She's farting and making money. - I can't. - Did you guys have you look? Have you? - I haven't. - No. - You haven't? - No. - That was the first thing I did. - I think it's different for you than it is for me, Kelsey. - But you're a researcher. This is your profession. - We've got people on a team. - We've got people on the team for that. - Where's your interns? I need to talk to them. Did you look? - I wish. - Good guys. - I know. - Can you talk to us about it? What did you find? - Okay. Oh, where do I even start? It's literally a mine. There it's so much space. It's almost like a parlor trick. It almost seems like a circus act. It seems very athletic. You know, there's like a queen fetish that I didn't know was a thing. Whenever it happens for us, it's like mortifying. I didn't know that this was something that you want to actively practice. Yeah. - People will pay for it. - She's getting all fours bending over and just learning it rip and chitching. It's just like, chitching certain flexing positions and yoga positions that I'm like, wait a minute, can't, can I? Like, is that something we all can do? But there's a lot about the anatomy. I didn't know that. - I've learned. - Maybe natural milk is caching in the most, but they do buy a lot of cars. And I'm no financial expert, but I feel like, I've been told it's a bad investment. And they're living in the sticks, just like they have a fleet of automobiles. So much so that their neighbors think they're drug dealers, which is. - Some people collect Pokemon cards, some people invest in the stock market. - She did say that she was holding on to the escalator, whatever. So she just got some cars that they're just testing out, seeing how they feel, how they drive. - Yeah, it's freedom. - Have you ever wondered what your neighbors do, Kelsey? - Not like that, but now this show has me wondering everyone I talk to, I'm like, you know what I mean? - When I bought my first house in LA, my neighbor, it parked in the car. Giant pickup truck. And my first thought was, I bought a house in LA and I bought a house next to the only Trump supporter in LA 'cause there's this big pickup truck. - Oh no. - And listen, if I'm not here to talk politics, and I don't dislike people because of who they vote for, but I was just more like, I don't know, this might be too intense for me. It was a big pickup truck. And then I met him and he was, he's from Jamaica. He grew in his background and gave it to me all the time and he's a Ken, handyman, incredible man. - It's just resourceful vehicle. - So don't judge a book by its car. - Yeah, don't judge a milk, a natural milk by their pickups. Have you ever been accused of being a drug dealer? Anyone? - Oh, I was once in high school. I sold weed to my teachers, but that was just 'cause I was bored in in Florida, you know. - To your teacher. - I'll judge a Florida story. - Yeah. (laughing) Yeah. Well, everything they say about Florida is true. And you don't realize how crazy that it is until you leave. You're like, oh, you also weren't doing drugs in the bathroom at school and throwing an alligator through a gas station window, just you'll be here. When you were 17, you weren't and you weren't. And I was like, no. - What do you tell people when they ask you what you do? - Oh, I don't. I lie. (laughing) - What do you say? - What's your go to? - I lie. I accountant. I'm accountant. - I mean, I used to be. - 'Cause no follow-up questions. - No follow-up questions. No one cares about what accountant does. How do I explain? How do I say it? - I get really awkward and cagey and then I say, I work in entertainment and they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, I don't. - Yeah, more questions. - And it gets like porn, yeah. - Yeah, oh, that's something I've had to do. I've been crossing the border a lot because my boyfriend's in Canada. And every time I, they go, what do you do for a living? And I say, I'm a content creator. And then they look like an extra second. - Mm-hmm. - And I go, not the only fan's kind. But I would. If anyone would, yeah, I would, if anyone would. - I mean, it's so funny 'cause I was telling my chiropractor. He asked me what I did and I was like, oh, me and my husband, they host a podcast and he was like, oh. - Yeah. - You know, it's kind of like a little like, oh, yeah, you know, another one. - You quit your good-paying job to chase some dream that's never gonna happen. - But then it clicked. I should just start telling people that we're hosts of a Netflix dating show. - There you go. - Oh, yeah. - Much cooler. Oh, yeah. And then people have exciting follow-up questions. It goes from oh to oh. - Yeah. - And then you're like, oh, okay, you've made it. Got it. - You're like a podcast. - It's like, oh. - And then they're like, what's the name of the show? Well, we match really old people with really young people. You know. - In a not creepy way. - In a not creepy way, they're like sure. - In a legal way. - Legal. - In a legal way signed up for this way. - Exactly. - Yeah. - And then I wish I said I did only fans. (laughs) - No follow-up questions. - Yeah. It's better when she says it than when I say it. - Oh, those she's a natural milk. - I am a natural milk and I am. - Looking really hot all the way these days. - Hell yeah. You're making it look cool and good. And that's bad for my brand as like a childless woman in a perfect place. Making it look really chic coating that baby right here. - Well, we have a lot of people in our house helping out, particularly her mom, often who's not here right now. But I gotta tell you, it's really, I really gotta sneak in the ass grabs. - Ooh. - Yeah, it's really hard, you know, try to be. - I mean, if you have the time in the hell. - You're a human. - No, last night we're feeding, I'm pumping and he's feeding both babies. And then he's like, so should we? - I'm like, this feels like a terrible time. (laughs) This is like the worst possible. It's three in the morning. We're exhausted. - He's like, you didn't feel that? - Yes. - You're not turned on right now. - I don't do it. - I'm not being sure of something there. - No, no. - Listen, you go. I just pumped for 20 minutes and he puts his hand on my boo. But I'm like, oh, that was, I just already got a lot of stimulation. (laughs) - It could be worse. He could be repelled. And like, I have no energy or attraction to you. - That is true. - I think this is actually champagne problems. (laughs) - I'm just letting you know that I'm standing by and ready to go whenever. - That is true. - Whenever she could be repelled. - He could be like, oh God. - And that's in real hell, I guess. - He's pointing out disgusting. - That's a kid I found out via our natural MILF. Our researcher here. - Yes, I am your new intern and turns out, being a mommy is a whole place. - It's a whole space for that. - That's too much. - Well, natural MILF was feeding the camera where I was like, I wonder what that fetish is like on the other end. - Yeah, what are they doing? - Can I pose a question to the group? - Has any of you ever tried that type of porn where it's like someone talking to you and it's audio only? - No. - Oh, oh. - Any other statistic? - Like ASMR. - ASMR. - Like, audiobook. - ASMR. - Whoa. - It's not a fetish. It's just imagine listening to porn with your eyes closed. Like an audiobook. - It's an audiobook. - It's an audiobook. - I strongly recommend it. - Yeah. - If you wanna switch up the routine. - Do you have a favorite double life content creator? - I think it's a healthy thing to participate in a good, it's not hurting anyone. It's a healthy outlet, you know? Helps with anxiety when you just gotta rub one out real fast. And if I can find something very specific, that hurts nobody. - And yeah, you don't, it's all too much. There's too much choice now, right? So when you find a good niche, you gotta niche down. You gotta stick to what you know. - And that's what our double lives of suburban wives moms are doing. They're giving you the niches. - Yeah. - And I think it's beautiful that she's putting like, kink life out there for everyone to see. Like for her to own though that kink life so strongly, I think it's really cool. - I've saw things I have never seen before. - Right, like the giant content. - Oh, that was, yeah. What little man wants to be put in someone's pocket? It's actually, I just gotta meet that guy. - Do you feel like the guys into the giant porn are short kings who are embracing their shortness? Or do you think it's tall men who want to know what it feels like to be a short king? - I want it to be the second answer. I want it to be a tall fetish that they're like, well never know what it feels like to look up at someone. - So it's small. - Yeah. - It's kind of cutesy. I do think that's adorable. - Well, I will say, as a man who is six too, there's not many people I have to physically literally look up to. And it is an intimidating weird thing when you're, you know, - But what if you also got a boner when you did that? (laughing) - Like, that's the people I want to talk to. - Oh my God. - Anything else before we get to our, let's, what did you watch? Let's marry Harry. - Obsessed. - Obsessed in following all the TikToks. - Were you familiar with Mr. Harry Josie before the show? - Yeah, of course. It's the guy I love to hate and hate to love, right? I'm right down the middle with him. - What did you just think about like, the earnestness of the women on the show? Because it was more like, have you not seen his content? - Yeah, I think it's fantastic. The producers did a great job of making sure all of these girls have TikToks and Instagrams afterwards because it's such a good supplement to the show that I think they're setting sort of like this new precedent about, 'cause Love Island kind of did it, but this being so now and happening with the reunion and everything. Like, I think it's a great marketing tactic, but I love how honest and free and real all of the girls are. - Yeah, no, they're very-- - Apparently you guys know what happened and you're gonna be giving me life to-- - Well, the women we have coming up next, Amber, Danelle, and Sam, the three finalists, at the reunion that many people have now listened to this episode, probably I've seen. And I guess Amber came in guns of blazing, the one who got married, quote unquote, and is no longer with Harry. There's a lot to unpack post-filming of the show. - He's currently dating someone he met on their honeymoon. - Allegedly. - Allegedly. - Yeah. - What? - Which is like-- - It's not the most fitting thing. - Oh, yeah. - For Harry Josie, like, well, he can't have another show if he changed and got married. - But also somewhere in between that, he broke up with Amber and then reached out to Danelle and then they hooked up and then Amber found out about-- - But Amber didn't know that they were broken up. - Amber didn't know this and they addressed it on the couch. And when they got in, when they came into the studio, Sam and Danelle came in first and we had them sitting, like, we're actually literally were you two are sitting right now and we put three of them on the couch. And before Amber came in, then I was like, slide over Sam. And so you have Sam sitting in between Danelle and Amber and it's, I guess, I can't wait for you guys to listen. - Word. - Yeah. - Oh my god. - Yeah. - Good stuff. - Harry. (laughing) - We need a man to blame. (laughing) - Well, I'm gonna give a, we opened up the interview, I'll give this away before we interview, but I wanted to know their familiarity with Harry Jalsey will film in the show and they claim who have not known much. They wanted to meet him or himself. - You're joking. - You're joking. - That's their story. - But have it, I feel like Harry said that in the contract, it clearly said, let's marry Harry, but like what girls are reading all of that fine print when they signed up for the show? - That's not the fine print, but it's just like don't you look up the guy you might marry and someone who is very accessible via - Yeah, there's no way they didn't know. - I'm calling them all irons right here. - I've never seen too hot to handle. I know far more about Harry Jalsey than I would like to know and it's all been against my will. So there's no way that you don't know. I do not follow that man. I'll only show that I've ever seen him on was the perfect match with Jess. Other than that, I know nothing else about this man besides I know so much about this man. And I'm just like, wait, why? Because it just gets bombarded on to me. So I'm just like, there's no way you sign up for a show like this to marry someone and be like, nope. And he's such a public figure. And he puts himself in the headlines that I'm just like, how could you not know? If you just Google Harry Jalsey one time, the amount of stuff that pops up. - And I think he was really playing into the I'm a reformed fuck boy. Like he really had us all thinking we're watching a change man. And that's all we want as women is we want to see the guy prove that it can happen. And then that way we can project that out into all the fuck boys. We for sure, but you must go into this thinking it might not happen though, right? Like there's maybe, maybe he's changed. - But I also, he really acted like he changed. - But I said, I kind of appreciate the rollout of this all where it was like the breakup with Jess and I'm gonna be a changed man. The boyfriend material, the whole thing. Like I'm really, really working on it for him to do this show where we obviously knew he wasn't actually gonna get married. but then it was like, oh, and on my honeymoon, I met my girlfriend, but then I called one of the other contestants. It's like, we're just back at square one. And he was giving us like live therapy during all of his confessionals and interviews with producers. Like he really had me thinking like, oh no, I can see the work. I'm watching it live in his brain, like his little, I'm watching his little mechanisms turn. That I'm like, what's worse? A fuckboy or a self-proclaimed fixed fuckboy? The second, right, much more dangerous. Definitely. He cast a house full of beautiful women. You haven't lived in the house with these women. He's living in there is nuts. And he's hooking up left and right. Are they all have mono? Like the whole time? Was this like a love island situation? Are they sick? The whole time. You have to. Pink guy mono, everyone's sick. Yeah. Not pink guy. Definitely pink guy. Definitely. You're touching bits and pieces. And like they're on pillows. There's lots happening on beds. Well, I think it's time to get to these ladies. It's an interview you definitely are going to enjoy. Kelsey, I want to thank you for coming by and just having some fun with us. Don't forget to buy Kelsey's new book. The link is in our bio. It is called Don't Do What I Did. Break up and bounce back. Kelsey, thanks so much for coming. Always great to have you come back. Don't make it another seven years before you come back. You guys are so hot. Have some fun with us. It's good to see you. Working people follow you, all that fun stuff. Subscribe, do what you know. Only fans, what do you? Outside all of us. One today at Kelsey Dara on all the things. And yeah, go check out Don't Do What I Did. All right. Well, up next we have Amber, Danelle, and Sam, the three finalists of Let's Mary Harry on packing all of their trauma both on the show and at The Ring Union. And it is something I hope you all enjoy. They're up next. Well, don't forget Five Files Plus is Ed Freight and available to you all. And if you are looking to get even deeper and some of the things that we don't have a time on realy recap dive into, like obviously, the Lindsey Clancy case is buzzing. Everyone's talking about it. And we are diving deeper into that case this week. In addition to shows like the double lives of suburban wives. And we didn't get a lot of time this week to talk about Orange County, but we will be doing it on plus. Jimmy is going to be joining us this week for plus. So if you want to get more Jimmy's soda, let's be sure to check out Five Files Plus. And again, in addition to that great content, you also get Ed Freight episodes. So if that's something you were looking for, just go to filefiles.com to sign up. You'll be super glad that you did. Ladies, welcome to the show. - Hi. - Hi. Thanks for having me. - I always sometimes start to think. - You have to, you have to. - How is your heart? - Yeah, mine's fine. - Mine's fine. - Mine's good. - Mine's fine. - Yeah, okay. - Yeah. - You guys recorded the reunion yesterday, correct? - Yeah. - That's it. - Overall, you guys feel like it's, you got that post reunion glow, which is to say that you look like you went through it all. - Been through war pretty much. - Yeah. - Well, by the way, we have Amber, we have Sam, and we have Denel, our three finalists with us. So welcome ladies. But starting with Amber, on a scale of one to 10, how would you, 10 being amazing? One being the worst ever. How would you rate your overall experience on the Let's Mary Harry show? - I actually had a lot of fun filming. I think it was one of the most life changing experience I had. Post show is a different story, but if I was to really talk about what I learned about myself on that show, I would never take it back. Like, I 100% showed up as myself, we're putting a crazy pressure cooker of a situation that not a lot of viewers can really understand unless you live it. And you're also trying to date Harry Jowzy. Like, it's not, this isn't another dating show. Like this man knows how these shows work, right? He knows where to take you in the house. He knows how it can go. So, I mean, watching it back and reliving everything a year later was a lot to take on. But if I really think about his experience, like, most amazing experience in my life. - So, is that a 10? - Yeah, on a personal level? Yeah. I come from a small island. I don't do stuff like this. I had a boyfriend for four years. It was my first summer single. Like, I was thrown into the craziest stuff of my life and I mean, yeah, I wouldn't take it back. - Okay, how about you, Sam? Happy birthday, by the way, Sam. It's Sam's birthday. We're celebrating our birthday. - Happy birthday. - Oh my god. - Thanks for unpacking your trauma on your birthday. - Oh, wait. It's my favorite thing to do actually. - Well, get a drink after that. - Perfect, 100%. - How would you rate it, Sam? - It was honestly 10. It was better than 10. I feel like it was hands down the best thing I've ever experienced. - Okay. - It was a giant girl's trip. Harry was there. (Sam laughs) You know, I loved everything about it and I met my absolute best friend in the entire world there where roommates now we moved in together, Shane, and yeah, literally nothing like that I've ever experienced before. - Okay, and Danelle. - Yeah, I mean, obviously I dealt with a heartbreak at the end of it, but ultimately I would give it a 10. - Okay. I learned so much about myself also just experiencing something so different out of my comfort zone. It was just all around a great experience and I met my two best friends too. Emma and DeBreeley, I love them so much. - Okay, and how much of that 10? 'Cause we had 10s across the board. Do we give Harry any credit, recognition? Was he part of the overall hectic situation that seemed to, like, you know, 'cause it sounds like your answers are all, you know, on their ups and downs, but at the end of the day I wouldn't change anything. How do we view Harry as part of all your experiences? - I think he added to it, honestly. Like, despite whatever didn't work out, whatever happened, I think I'm grateful for every relationship. It taught me something. I've learned from it, so. - Yeah, I mean, I personally enjoyed my time that I spent with Harry during filming. So he definitely fed into that at some point. The thing about Harry is, like, he is funny as fuck and I need a guy that stimulates me and he has that and he's, I told him, hey, this is not the way I fall in love. I don't know if I'm gonna walk off this show. Like, we had that moment, I think, third day end. I was like, this isn't for me. I take myself super seriously. I don't know how I ended up here. Like, I got casted as one of the last people and I was just like, so overstimulated. That's why I pop in at the end, honestly. Harry has something about him that is so fun and funny and I don't think I could. Well, I just, yeah, he makes things exciting 'cause I need that too. So I feel like our energy was matched in that way. So he's fun to film with. - Like, if the lead was someone else, it would have been, you probably would have left earlier, Amber is kind of what you're saying. Like, if they weren't as funny or as stimulating as Harry is. - This type of show is, there's one guy. It's different when you go on like Love Island. Something's not working with a guy. You can lead someone else. Like, it was really hard for me to only have it be towards one guy. I'm not gonna lie. So with him being the lead, I think it's what left, like, kept me there and I told him and he was like, what can I do to make you stay? You know, and he was so accommodating to me and that's why he would grab me. I told him, sure, I looked in the eye and I said, if you want me here, make it known. I'm gonna give you an opportunity to be in your manhood and we'll see if this is for us. If you have a better connection with someone else here, explore that, send me home. I said that, every elimination. And he's like, you're not going anywhere. I was like, okay. So that was like my experience with him and I had fun. Honestly. - I'm curious, because obviously I want to unpack Amber, your relationship with Harry Post's show. The question for all you ladies going into the show, what was your understanding or awareness of who Harry Jowzy was in his reputation coming into the show? And how much, if any, did that affect your decision to be a part of the show? - I mean, I honestly, I was scrolling on TikTok one night and I saw a casting producer just looking for girls for a dating show and I don't know what made me decide to, I just think everything's a sign. So I was like, I don't know, this showed up on my feed. So I clicked on her page, went to the application and started and I was like, this is the longest application ever. And I almost didn't finish it and I was like, I'm already halfway like, let me just finish it. So anyways, I go through all the steps and like it just kept another interview, another interview, another interview. And then it was like, okay, it's a show about marriage, which I want to get married. So I was like, okay, like that aligned with me. Let's see what this is. And then I'm pretty sure it was like two or three weeks before I actually flew out there is when they told me it was Harry. And when they told me, oh, it's Harry Josie, I was like, oh, okay, I didn't know anything about him. So as soon as I got off the phone call that day, I was like, Harry Josie, who was Harry Josie, searching the internet, trying to watch the shows that he was on, just trying to get some kind of an idea. But honestly, I felt like I went into it and I still didn't know anything about him. I feel like I learned a lot about him while I was there. - You weren't aware of any dating reputation that he brought in to the show at all? - Not really. No, I knew that he dated Jess before, but yeah, that was basically it. - Was that how this everybody? Like you didn't know it was gonna be Harry until like two weeks prior? - Well, they had been like advertising like, let's marry Harry, which was really weird because during the casting process, like they were hiding who it was. They were like, oh, it's a businessman. That's six foot whatever. And like towards the end, they told us, everyone in the world. knew before going on the show 100% but it was just like maybe a few weeks before. And I think some people might have been able to piece it together if they were maybe already following Harry because he was posting about it. I wasn't following Harry so it didn't click for me. Okay, how about you Amber? Interesting. Yeah. My casting, I was living in Bali and I was reached out and they said this guy's looking for someone he finally wants to take seriously. He's had a career for so long on dating shows. This is something he finally wants to close the chapter on. They shared with me that he had lost his dad, things like that. I have always been friends of people who are in the same industry. I'm a photographer for my whole life. I've shot people's content so I've been on the back of it. And I have close friends. One of my friends who does podcasting, I introduced her to her boyfriend in Hawaii and I've seen people change and I really do think that the media paints people out to be a certain way. So why would I judge Harry if he's going to take himself seriously? I'm not really a judgmental person. I like to meet people and I like to see if they're true to them. So I was willing to take that risk. Even though I got so much shape, people were like, "Oh, it's Harry Jowze." I was like, "Yeah, but I know so many people, my best friend who he grew up in." People trash people. People can change. I've seen people fall in love. I've seen people on TV fall in love. I don't really watch reality TV, but the last season I watched was like, I don't know what season was of love Island, but Liam Miguel and then I was like, that is the coolest timeline in life. This fell into my timeline. I wasn't looking for it. I don't really put myself out there in the real world. At all. I don't really, I'll never DM a guy. I'm not like that. I was like, "This kind of fell into me. I'm the last girl." I called Latia actually. I go, "Tia, I got asked to do this show." She kind of asked who's making it. She was like, "Oh my God, they did Bachelor with me. It's amazing. It'll grow you." I'm so much like her. I'm really to myself and she's like, "Do it." I was like, "Okay, trust that." My experience of how this came to my life, I literally walked on a cliff and this girl pulled out a tarot deck. She's like, "Pull a card. I pulled a card." It said in a month from now, your life will change. It was September 8th. Then I was like, "Okay, I did a couple calls. I was straight into the heavy paper work of Ayatollah Tia." She's like, "You're that far in the process. Your cast did get dresses." I was like, "What? Left Bali." Then that tarot card said in a month, your life will change. October 8th exactly a month later, they called me and they said, "We need you here." I was like, "This is all my timeline. I'm just going to be there every day on set and see what this is for." There's so much between me and Harry too. That was just like, really cool. We synced up on. We connected on a lot of different things. As crazy as the situation is, that was how this all fell into place for me. I knew it was Harry. They told me that. I put all of that into my head with my friends and just my life. I was like, "Okay, I'm just going to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he is what he's saying he is because talk is cheap." Through your dating experience, both filming the show for all your ladies and obviously Amber you afterwards. It makes a lot of sense and we appreciate that. Obviously, I know what it's like to have people say a lot of shit about me online and obviously you wish people want to get to know you. That being said, do you feel like after getting to know and dating Harry, was your experience with Harry different than the rumors about him as a data specifically at how he moved in relationship or what did it verify his priors? Is he the same person outside of the show when we really dated? No, I just more like it sounds like you, Amber, at least had heard some of how he dated Jess or just how he moved on too hot to handle. While I appreciate going and being like, "You know what, I'm going to meet the guy. I want to see who he is in real life." After getting to know and meeting the guy, was it different than what people were saying about him or was it, did it match what people said about him online? Getting to know him, no, Harry was really cool and fun. I actually really enjoyed being around Harry like when we were together on the show. After the show was, you know, a little bit of a roller coaster. So how long did you and Harry date post getting married or not getting married? We wrapped the show late November and we were together till February 1st. We were supposed to move into a house together in the first and he's, you know, he's lied to me. He's lied to Denel. He's done some things that are just really hard but I just don't invite Toxie City into my life. All good, I release it. Like it was, yeah, it was a roller coaster and he's been on thousands of podcasts. His narrative, it's different. He's like tangled up in a web of his own lies at this point. I mean, the poor guy. Even the first month of you guys dating. What was it? Did you feel connected? Did you feel like, did it feel like you were really working on a marriage or did it feel like you're working on a relationship? I said in our vows, we're two imperfect people like perfect for each other. Like there's a reason this is happening. Let's go one day at a time. I said to him and I said, we met in a really strange way. I don't expect to have a real like traditional relationship. We have to hide. There's so many things we have to iron out. I want to work with you at whatever level that looks like. You need to go like regroup in LA. Go regroup. I'll go back to Hawaii. I'm not here to be like, I'm your wife. This is how it goes now. I was so easy on him. I let him do whatever he wants. You want to film with other girls? Whatever you want. Like it's all good. So we worked at that pace because we did wrap a show. We couldn't go out. We couldn't do stuff. So I felt like let's keep integrity for the show. And when we just worked on, let's move in that way. So that meant for you, your expectation that he would still, when you say film with other girls, like he was, he was going to move like a single man in public. Is that what you were saying? Yeah, that's what he wanted. He wanted to film with his friend in Australia. And he's like, this is all smoking mirrors. It's good for the shows. Like you've done us do it. It's your social media. I'm not going to go fake that I have a boyfriend. I'm just going to lay low. Like you do what you want with your socials. Keep me in the loop. You know, like I really, I'm not going to come up into a relationship and change who he is. He likes to film with people. He likes to do that. So, you know, that was my approach with us jumping into it. I think a lot of people have an idea of marriage that it needs to look like this, this and this. But I think it's like two people just a good relationship in my eyes. This is where we kind of like, kind of weren't in touch with each other is just two people building a life on each other, like coming together and complementing each other. And I think the sad thing about Harry is he is so, he has so many amazing qualities. But he hasn't done the work and he can't access them because he is used to and he admits this. He says it out of his own mouth. He admits to seeking out toxicity. And whenever he would try to push me or do things, I told him I was like, Hey, there's like low frequency and high frequency. You want me to be jealous? I'm not jealous. I'm territorial. Like he just kept trying to honestly like do things that I just didn't work with like in Australia. I realized that, you know, it's hard to come off of the show and and hide. But I saw this term at the reunion. I was like, any girl you would have picked, you would have had to do that with. You understand that, right? You signed up for the show. Do what with what do you mean? Like hide for a year because he kept saying like, Oh, it's hard to have a marriage and secret. I was like, yeah, what you're trying to not be secret. You're like outside wanting people to paparazzi you. Why did you drag me into this? I said, leave me at home then. Like I'm anything I say that it falls on deaf ears with him. I'm sorry. Like we're we're just now each other's people. I don't like that. I don't like toxicity. And that's what I learned. And I would that's why I was good to let it go. It's my understanding. Correct me. I feel like this was discussed at the reunion. But it's he's currently in a relationship now with someone else. Yeah, that he met on our honeymoon. That was my next question. He met your honeymoon and you guys were for your honeymoon and I say the word honeymoon and he's like honeymoon. I was like, yeah, when you get married and go on a trip after people call it a honeymoon, you got married right? You should know that. Like I can't keep explaining something to someone that like I said, falls on deaf ears. Like you you've done many shows before you've done perfect match. You know that these shows come out a year later. You have such a pattern online wherever girl that you've dated after you've crossed over to the next show and then you're in a big mess. Like this isn't my fault. You are being a victim in a situation you created. You you chose me and now you're using it against me against me. And I I am not one to mess with. Like don't gas like me. And the difference with this show and the tone of this show is I did not ever love bomb Harry. Even when it came down to me and to know I said if Danielle's a better pick for you pick her. Like genuinely I want the happy happiness for you. Course the show is edited up. It has to be this way. There's so much of both of our sides that wasn't put in. But the truth is is like he knew what he was signing himself up for. So don't use it against me. I don't fuck with that. What did you think he was using against you? Just the whole way the relationship didn't work out was because of like it's hard to be in a relationship. Like go bore someone else. Like I genuinely you signed up for this show. So it was he the one who technically ended it. I mean yeah. And basically so he was saying I can't this moving it moving in private I want to I want to live my life and I can't do this tie down kind of thing. No, actually, if you want what really happened. Yeah. I mean, the things I'm about to say is not what's hidden. Harry, I don't know why he does the things he does, but he publicly, all of this is posted by him. So if he watches this and listens, he did this to himself. He's so embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed. I was even a part of this relationship. Sorry. So if I laugh, I'm sorry, but like get it to it. We get off the plane in Australia. I'm like, bro, like take a couple days if you need a breath because you're stressing yourself out. I'm not here to stress you out. You had 20 girls to pick from. You picked me. So I'm so real with him. You know, he gets like off the show. He's sorry off the plane in Australia. And he did this to me on stay just today. He's like, well, in Australia, we broke up. I was like, dude, if I had my phone, you were texting me every day, every day until one day where it just went ghost. This man's crazy. So we get off the plane in Australia. This is your honeymoon. Yeah, our honeymoon that he doesn't want to call a honeymoon. Honestly, I don't care. I call it what you want at this point. He is, you know, stress. And I'm like, you're creating this stress. Like I, he's like, I don't, I just don't want to be with someone who's like getting drunk all the time. I was like, you were drunk every day on the show. And your friends are pouring me shot. Like we're just beefing about stuff like that. Like I can't handle being gaslit to every detail of my life, you know? So we were, that's what we were arguing about. Little arguments, you know, get off the plane. And then he just needed a couple days. I was like, if you need a couple days, take a couple days. This was like January 9th. I don't text him for a day. He asked for space. I was like, I'll give you space. Then he gaslights me again. And it's like, hello, question mark. I was like, sorry, I was giving you what you asked for is not not right. He's like, yeah, you're right. I was like, okay, what's up? He was gaslighting you. He's just always making it like I'm doing something wrong where I'm like, I'm giving you the space that you asked for. Like he uses everything against me, which I did not like. Anyways, he wants to look at houses. And I was like, okay, are you feeling better? I talk through him through everything in life. Like we have big conversations. I hold so much space for Harry. He knows that. And then yeah, he was looking for houses. And he was like, I really want to get a house. I'm ready to just have something bigger. I need you here. Get to LA. So he's sending me all these houses. He's touring them, sending me videos. He's picking them out like everything, you know, and that's the, that's the track we were on in January. Like he was picking out houses, filming, packing up the house, wanting to me to pick out furniture for the house, like everything. Move in days, February 1st. So this is all through January. That's, you know, that was what I thought we were on. And then he doesn't, he blocks me on Instagram. What? He blocks me. I don't know it. Does he, like you're still married at this point? Or like you're in a relationship, whatever, you never blocked your wife Nick. And posted like him in some like Wendy's outfit kissing a rapper. Was he filming a commercial or something? It was like a music video. Okay. Baby. Yes. Baby. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So much. That has happened with this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, blocks me. Posts kissing this girl as if like people weren't gonna screenshot it and send it to me. Or if you like you don't have a fence done, you can't. I actually don't have a fence done. I ask all my friends to spy for me. You're so at peace. I have so many burners. No, I don't have one. If you go on my phone, like I don't. I tried not to, I was like, why would he? Like this is so dumb. Anyways, yeah. He's just been a goddamn mess, honestly. It sounds like all the like freedom you gave him to like figure his shit out was like so convenient for him to like do as he pleases and move as if he wasn't married. I got wonder if maybe, no, just like maybe he didn't pick you somebody else say to know we're on a tight program or something. And like he wouldn't have that freedom that leeway to just move about and do whatever video shoot he did. Yeah. He whatever girl he would lie about it. Yeah, he was going to move how he want to move regardless. 100 pay. Interesting. He did it. I kind of think he would probably no matter who he chose. I think that he probably would have done what he wanted to do because in his mind, it's probably just work. Yeah. He uses work like against you to kind of like a cop out for certain things that are inappropriate in a relationship like all good, but you don't need to block me. Tell me, Hey, I want to do this music beat. I'm a kiss this girl. It's all good. Like I wouldn't care. If the boundaries are vague, I wouldn't have cared. Honestly, you know, that's convenient for him. Well, yeah, I guess. I mean, if I married that, like I think he just like convinced me that it was so much of his work, but now looking back like in the moment, I didn't care. But looking back, I was like, if you were married man, you probably should just like say no to these things like shift a little like this is your time to show up as a better man. And I kind of always gave them the him the opportunity to see what he would choose. And he disappointed me every time. And that's the shitty thing. And that's just the truth of it. And just he posted him with his new girl, like at a Lakers game, like he trial reeled himself and tagged her and posted it from his account. And people were sending it to me, like him standing there with like Justin Bieber. He tagged to the girl. I was like, why are you giving me concrete evidence of how you're moving? Like can we go back to how he met this girl in your honeymoon? Because like, who was she? Oh, that's what I heard. That's what I heard from everyone. Um, honestly, the dynamic and I surely was quite strange. Like he would wake up in the mornings and say he wanted to go like work out with his friend Josh. And I was like, of course, go work out. Obviously, I was joshing your honeymoon. I don't know. He it's like, don't you think that if you came off a show being married, you would take the time out of your life to kind of like get to know someone outside of a show where he jumped right back into work like in Australia. He was doing podcasts for her. He was filming Instagram videos. He was filming with his friend who does Instagram, like faking that he's in a relationship with her. Like there was so much that he was doing. And I was like, okay, you want to jump back into it. You didn't have your phone for six weeks. Like I'm here and I'm watching everything. So I didn't want to like come and just be like on the wife do this. Like I was actually just observing how he moved because I was still testing like like I said talk is cheap and I had skepticism on the show. And a lot of the questions I asked that I'm bummed about that wasn't shown in the show was Harry, you asked for this opportunity. And are you prepared for the shift that you have to make one to become a husband? You know, but my skepticism was so overlooked. It made me look me look unready. Of course, they're not going to put me saying, are you ready to him? It's his show. So sure. Well, regardless, even with that specific question though, I'm sure he could just be like, yes, I'm curious for all of you ladies. And maybe I'm curious. Maybe you had a different answer to him because you obviously you're the one who kind of opted out on your own. But did you ask them like as Harry, this public figure who's been on TV, you know, who's, you know, has this very unique lifestyle knowing that the show is about marriage and that marriage is on the line. Did any of you women discuss specifically his awareness of what how he needs to move differently in this marriage or relationship that he planted on ending up with? Well, I didn't really know much about him prior to the show, to be honest. I didn't like research him or anything like that. I think the only thing I looked up was like, what his ex girlfriends look like. I'm like, do I have a chance? But you're so hot Sam. Do you guys regret that? No, I don't regret it because kind of like Amber, like I literally, I like to give people a chance in real life. I don't believe what I see online. I didn't want that to sway what I thought about him. Yeah, I know that's fair, but I am just curious because obviously we are here and we're talking about an amber. You have some frustrations with how the relationship moved and as someone who's, you know, we've watched Harry before, a lot of it is there's a theme here, right? I definitely appreciate people giving me a chance to get to know them in person for sure. Let's say let's marry Harry season two. You know, he's like, I'm here this time for real. You know, it's like they do another season, right? And a girl calls you up and she's just like, yo, I'm being casted on the show and she says to you, I don't want to judge a book by its cover. I don't want to hear, you know, what the internet has to say. I want to meet him and get to know him and judge for myself, which we all like to do. What would you say to that person? I can't speak for everyone. Yeah, I can't speak for everybody's experience. You know what I mean? I feel like I, you know, in my last conversation with him, I very much was up front and asking those questions. That's the whole reason I went home. I was like, are you going to be the same person off camera as you are on like in a few weeks? Am I going to get the same Harry Josie? And he was clearly very upset about that. Did not go the right way. So if a girl were to ask me that, honestly, I learned for yourself, you know, get your own experience. However, this was mine. Like I just, I don't know. And I think Amber was kind of like the nail on the coffin for that. Like, she quite literally got a different experience post show. So I don't have much to say other than that. And then now at the reunion it was discussed that you and Harry met up or reconnected post breakup with Amber? We did. Yeah, so I think just from the conversation that we had at the reunion last night, I personally still feel like a little confused and I don't really have, I don't really know what's going on. So I saw Harry January 16th was the weekend that I went out there. I was there for two nights. He told me that he was single. That's what he told me. I'm not sure if they were together, if they weren't together, like I don't know. I would love to find out. I just feel like I was put in a really sticky situation and it was unfortunate. But you were operating on the impression it was single? Yes. And you don't know if he actually was single or not. I thought he was up until yesterday. You took him at his word, yeah. Exactly. And yesterday at the reunion, it was presented that maybe he wasn't. I mean, Amber, you're here. From your standpoint, was Harry single? January 16th. No, I mean, we never really had a breakup. It's Harry. When can I ask when was the breakup? I just need to know for myself. We came home from Australia, I think, that week. To him, he told me at the reunion, we broke up in the car. I was like, "Do you text me every fucking day?" You called me and you said, "Literally begging, fuck the show. I don't care about any of it. Move in with me." The man's all over the place. There was never like a ending of things. He was trying to move me in by February 1st to our house. We picked out together. I get that that was your guy's plan initially, but like, I just want to bring out one of the, when did you guys last contact? Like, last time you guys talked? Like, we talked to each other the whole time. He was talking to me while he was with you, by the way. That's crazy. To Denow's point, at what point in your mind were you like, "I'm no longer in a relationship?" Me? Yeah, yeah. February 1st, when we were moving in, and we got into something about something with a TV. And then I was like, he just started saying, "You make everything an argument." And I was like, "The thing about marriage, like, I really wasn't. The thing about marriage is you consider someone's opinion, but it's not the case with Harry. You're not allowed to put your opinion. He will view it as like, he starts to defend, like, he's impossible. So we got into little tiny things. We talked about a TV. I said, "You know what, Harry? I'm proud of you. I have it on text. I'm proud of you. Good luck with moving day. You've wanted this for so long. You want a bigger house for yourself. You want to be with the dogs with a yard. Like, like, all good. Like, I will talk to you later. Like, good luck with, good luck with the moving. Never heard from him again until the finale drops. So you guys just walked. So him blacking you and going to the Lakers game, that was, like, early January or December or something like that? That would know. That was like the same week he ghosted me. So he's already in the works with her. And I heard from a lot of other people that he had kind of met her, heard of her from the Australia trip. And did you know he was, he had met up with Danelle or like, because you, because you knew he was. No, and that's why I was so angry at the reunion. You'll see me. I fucking freaked out. Like, to genuinely find out on a Snapchat is not okay. Like, at all. It's not okay. Snapchat. Yeah. Like, he posted it like, he, sorry. He took it upon himself. He didn't even tell me that he was going to be posting those. So I also saw them. And I was like, didn't know we were doing that. First of all, it was pictures of us. We met up with an influencer. He was doing content. So there are pictures with her. And then that was it actually. We were with her the whole time. But yeah. How long did you and Harry hang out for it? Was it like a one week? Two days. And it was just like just reconnecting because obviously you guys clearly had chemistry. Were there any conversations about you guys exploring a relationship? Yeah. That's, I was under the impression that that's what we were doing. Okay. The whole time. And what was his, I mean, I'm assuming you had questions about his breakup with Amber or his, you know, from his standpoint. Yeah. I did. I asked what happened between you and Amber. He was very vague. He didn't want to give me too much detail. He said that out of respect of Amber, he didn't want to share what happened. So that's the answer I got. I'm being nice, not even talking about what like some of the things you don't have to be like with with Harry. Like, no, it's just like, I've moved on. This happened like in January. And I'm just like, it sucks to be in this situation. I'm not going to lie. So I just, I want to like, I just want him to leave me alone. And that's be done with this soon. Like, that's genuinely how I feel. And when he was being so toxic, that's how I felt on February 1st, 2, I was like, okay, learned my lesson, learned about myself. I am not going to fight for something that disturbs my peace. I want to be seen and valued and considered in a marriage. Like, I do not play. When I have a person, I have a person. Like, I want to grow with them, you know, like, you know, if you want to go, um, fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together. And I, I believe in that 100%. Like that with my friends, with my business, with all that I am as a person. It's really unfortunate because Harry comes from a beautiful family. He's really fun. He's really cool for him to do this to himself is it's sad. Like, I feel sad for him. I mean, I ate him up on the stage yesterday, but at the end of the day, it's just so sad because he walked off laughing with Sonny. Like, he doesn't, he doesn't, he's not considerate of, he's not ready for marriage. And that's okay. Like, all the best to you, to be honest is, do you think he felt like apologetic or sorry like when you were bringing us to him at the reunion? That's the crazy part. I felt like I was like waiting for him to come out and be like, I'm so sorry to like certain people and like even just talking to people backstage. Like, everyone was preparing me for like maybe an apology. I don't know because I hadn't really talked to him up until like, you were really recently. He sat up there and was like, I don't know you guys. No one's getting. He literally looked at everybody was like, I don't even know you guys. I knew you for five minutes last year. Like, and I was like, oh my gosh. Like, some girls quit their job to be. Yeah, sure. With you three women, it's a little different, but I mean, just he watched it. It's actually crazy. Yeah, he just sat there and acted like too cool. And I understand he was getting attacked. Like, I did feel like slightly bad at a certain point, you know, but also like, he didn't dig his own grave. Like, I don't really know what else to say. He like, you, he's not getting attacked. Like, honestly, are you mad? That like, it's all true. Like, are you mad that we're saying it or you mad that it's true? Like, you have to sit in here and you have to eat it up right now. Like, you didn't want to have this conversation with me privately from the time we wrapped to now. So we're going to do it in front of everyone. That's what I looked him in the eye and said, we're doing it here because you didn't even call me. I asked you anything you want to say to me for a reunion. You could say it. He's like, no. And I was like, have I dragged you online? Have I just respected you? He's like, no, I was like, hey, do you need to talk about anything? He's like, no, I was like, hey, I'll see you at three. So I went out there and I let him have it. What would you ladies say to the average fan who's followed Harry's journey on TV? What if they were like, what did you expect with the show? It's like, what would you say to that fan? Who has that point of view? I am just like, I'm a lover girl. I love love everything about it. I am genuinely looking for a husband. So like, and like you already said, yeah, I didn't even do my research, but still with that. Like people, yeah, why would you think that Harry Jalsey really wanted to get buried? I don't know. I think people can change. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I don't know. It is what it is. I was questioning him the whole time, not going on. Here's the topic. You know, he's beautiful. He's tall. He's charming. He's charismatic. He's got money. He's famous. The thing about Harry, and it's not exclusive to him, but he will have unlimited chances. There will always be someone who's like, but he can change for me. Has he changed your perspective on how you get to know future men? Have you learned anything from this experience, how to protect yourselves and relationships moving forward? I would like to answer about kind of the last question that's a no answered. The tone of the show is really beautiful when we're on set. All the girls were really respectful of each other. We knew what he was like, but the cast, he got so lucky and he'll say it a hundred times. We were so like, we knew what it was. We were so kind to him wanting to make a shift in his career. And he was so sick of being called a fuck boy that were like, okay, this is something that you want a different approach to and you deserve that chance then. If you claim that you made lots of mistakes in the past on TV, do good. Let's see where I want to say something is I ended the show with him. And we connected off a tone of I did not ever, ever like like I said, like play into telling him what he wants to hear that I was ready for marriage early. I gave him so much space to find that. And we connected because he presented to us that he was there because he had lost his dad. And he felt like that was the saddest thing in the world to not have a family. Like he went through pain watching his his parents not be there for each other and he doesn't want to be put in the position where if he didn't have someone, like that gave him a new set of eyes. So we weren't looking at it. And I personally was only looking at this situation where it's like, I'm gonna take your grief seriously. Like I held a lot of space for that. And I think that was a different tone of the show. The way it was edited and thrown in the PR and the way he talked about it, I was like, this is what I'm seeing on screen is so different than what we experienced. I don't know if you guys feel the same. - What do you mean by that? Just like what it felt like being there? - The challenges were like vulnerability. Like we did had deep talks. Like yeah, he was, you know, macking on everyone doing his thing. But like, yeah. - That's part of it a little bit. - It's part of it, you know? - Which I said about like the girl, like y'all understand like what it was. It was interesting 'cause it did seem like while he would like entertain one girl. Like y'all was like being some girls' girls' shit. Like y'all became super close, even post show. I see all y'all videos together. - Yeah, 80% of the experience filming an off of it. Like the girls were actually like hype. - It was lit. - A big part obviously the season was, you and Harry hooking up in the shower, Amber. - Uh-huh. - And then how Harry chose to communicate that or not communicate that with the rest of the women. You know, it's like part of the, you know, being the lead is there's damned if you damned if you don't. You know, you know, if you're juggling so many emotions, you're bound to piss someone off. But like, how did you feel about, you know, at that point where you thinking, oh, he's gonna pick me and that's why I'm doing this or is it, well, let's just have some fun or, and I guess how did you feel about how the other women would feel about that happening? - Now that the show's out and the girls have spoken out, two girls had already slept with him at this point. So this is the last day in the house. Only my shit kind of got aired out all good. Like, it is what it is. I did, he's the one who picked me up. You watch that I, I was the last girl to kiss him too. Like he, I didn't know what was going on. We were drunk, went into the closet. The man knows what he's doing. He's like, I'm turning our mic off. Let's talk through some stuff because I was wanting to go. I mentioned to him that was the elimination night, Juliana left. He told me this is the last night in the house. It's gonna get more fun. We're gonna go on some trips. I was still like, dude, if you're gonna entertain Juliana, I don't wanna be here. Like, if you kept your on, I would have laughed. I was gonna pack my bags. We talked through some stuff. He turned off a mic. He purposely didn't turn off one of them. That's why you hear what I say, which got chopped up so much. We're in the bathroom talking. No intention of hooking up with him. Like, in any way, he turned on the shower. Actually, this is true. He turned on the shower. Turned off a mic, put it on the side. I was standing by the sink like this. He was talking. And he's like, unbuttoning his shirt. And I'm like, are you about to take a shower? Like, the conversation was actually so funny. And it got clipped up so I was like, well, I'm not gonna marry someone. I don't know what they look like. Naked again. Naked. Didn't mean I was gonna fuck them. Like, I was edgy. Like, you know, like, it was funny as hell. That was my approach. And then what happened? How did we go from there to there? He picks me up and takes me into the closet and boom. We just start hooking up. Like, I was like, what the hell? It just happened so fast. I mean, call it a hook up. Like, I wouldn't in my real world. But, you know, he likes to claim that it was this. Did you guys have sex? I'm not getting into details. It's quite traumatizing to think about him. So that's the shower scene. Just letting you guys know. But everyone assumes you had sex. Did you not have sex or did you have sex? I mean a little. Okay. (laughing) Oh, that could mean so many different things. Like, I'm using my imagination right now. Please, fucking don't. No, when I heard whispers of girls, some things, you know, when I was like, I didn't know he was moving. Like, I guess girls fell into that with him so quick 'cause he moves quick like that. Like, I'm sure. I mean, I don't know. Like, he just puts it on. You're like, are we allowed to do this when I'm fucking camera? Like, I was genuinely shitting my pants. I was like, I felt like I was breaking rules. Like, he's just, I wanna say something too. 'Cause maybe just clarify though, 'cause you said he already slept with two girls before. Are you incinuating one with me? I'm guessing. Well, someone, I just wanted to- It's fine, I just said something that you didn't come back to your bed for a while. Okay. The other girls in the bunk. He kind of, like, there was things, of course, whatever. I actually wanted to speak about that. So, of course, first there's the closet scene that we had, which was so blown out of proportion, though, because you can clearly see I walk out, like, completely find the closet door wasn't even closed. Like, we were in there making out. So, that was just crazy. No, I knew that was- Yeah. And absolutely both. The second was you do see me getting into his bed, and that was like, maybe one or two nights after. And that night, we did not have sex. Like, we literally, it was, we'll call it four play. That's all it was. The first night we ever got intimate was the night that- What base did we get to? We went all the way, okay. That was the night that he met my mom. That's the first time we had sex. That was hard for me to watch that shower scene, 'cause I had to be quiet till the reunion and things, and I got so slut-shamed for that. And at the end of the day- You didn't deserve that truly- No, it was a really crazy situation. I was the last one who kissed him. Like, he knew the way that went. I was like, I cannot believe this is that it I got. And that's what you get for lighting someone tell your story. That's what I learned from reality TV. Like, I'll take that one on the chin. And it's like, I think the narrative of it all got so twisted because I don't know, just our situation and maybe like, did you sleep with Amber in the shower? And like, it was just his lying that bothered me. Like, I kept reiterating that. I'm like, just be a hundred with me. Like, that's all I care about. I could care less about what relationships he had going on and how they were developing. I wasn't naive, I wasn't stupid, you know? You just kind of felt like you were experiencing a liar in that moment. Yeah, and he's just like looking away and playing games and gaslighting me. Like, is my hair wet? Is my hair wet? No, see, I wasn't doing anything. And I'm like, I did put it on. Yeah, and I'm like, what are we doing here, you know? And I'm like, okay, if you're lying to me, I'm going to go home. Like, look at me and the guys and tell me you didn't do this. And he's like, I promise you I didn't do it. I'm like, okay. And so it's confusing though, it's because you're saying you guys didn't have sex though. So it's kind of like you technically wasn't lying. No, yeah, we, it got to that point a little, but the way it was blown out, like we hooked up in the closet like quick, but the way this whole thing was like, you mean shower, closet, like we didn't, we were dry. We were dry. Our hair was, like, you guys were in the bathroom though, right? Yeah, but there's a closet in the bathroom. Oh, he turned on the show. I was actually so confused of what was happening. This is like that. So the shower was more of a distraction of audio, rather than. Yeah, and he wanted to navigate that way because he knew I wasn't going to walk up in that room and be like, let's fuck. I was not that girl. So he just got like, he's like, I know where we could, like I was like, okay, let's go have a chat. Like I did, guys, I did not know. I would ever take it to that point with it. So it wasn't like some like exotic or erotic shower moment. Yeah. But you're, you're requested like that this dies between us. You were like, okay, so you got a lot of backlash out on the internet too. In the, like when I walk out, I said, that's not my job. Like you're a man, like you speak on your stuff, but try, let's keep this between us is what I said. And then, but I meant for that, for that night. What did you mean by that? 'Cause I will, I'll be honest. If you were to told me that, I would be confused. I never said lie for me. Nah, I didn't. I said, okay, we have to go downstairs. So let's, don't be avoidant. Let's go. Let's keep this between us. And I was gonna like talk to him about it tomorrow. Also, it's an opportunity for him to grow. I wish he would have said to Sam, I am now down to the final five girls. And I'm gonna be moving at girls, like in a different pace in a way, like he, I expected him to like, this is the point where he's gonna start deep in his relationships. And I knew going into the rest of the process, he could very well be with a girl in that way. So I wish he would have said to Sam, Sam, I am gonna explore my relationships and the intimate parts of it. I have to keep between me and the girl. But I understand how you're feeling and how that's uncomfortable for you. So let's talk through as much as we can. But as far as my intimacy goes with the other girls, like this kind of stays between us. He could have like kind of had a gray area with it instead of just a really tingly lie. For him to get on the couch the next day, I will lie to the jet, bro, you look dumb as hell. Like, I gave you an opportunity to actually grow there. And I believe in those moments. - How would you have felt about that answer, Sam, if Harry were to give Amber's answer? - That would have been good enough for me, honestly. Like truly, I just wanted the respect of him, you know what I mean? Like acknowledging me in that way, acknowledging like what's going on. I think it was just confusing 'cause it was like elimination, you know what I mean? And it's like, oh wow, it's final five. And then now we're sleeping with girls. And it wasn't just like it was like Abby and stuff, too, like the same time period. And it just felt like, are we playing games? Is this for real? - Okay, so hypothetically, if he were to go to the other stream and just be blatantly honest, it was like, oh yeah, we had sex. - Yeah. - You would have appreciated that and you would have stayed. - See, people are gonna like watch this and be like, what the fuck? But like truly, I feel like yes, it was uncomfortable. Yes, I would have been like, ooh, I don't know how I feel about that, but like that would have been my decision to process versus like just lying in my face. - Great. And he could have come to me as well and said, hey, the girl, like, let's talk about it. And I was like, hey, let's all be honest now. If you guys ask hard questions, you're going to get hard answers. You want to ask, what do I did? I'll tell you. That's kind of like where I stand with stuff. Harry navigates things the way he wants. Like I said, we're all here giving him opportunity to grow. And I didn't know he lied to you like that, Sam. When I watched the show, I didn't know that's the way he carried that. And you actually messaged me first about it before he ever contacted me. The way you're watching it go down went, I was like, my head hurts watching this. I like an apology for you from you before I ever got one from Harry. So I was like, thanks. And also, if you guys wanted to know if I did that, you could have came to me and asked, you really didn't, I was going to say, I did ask you on the camera in the bathroom. And the next day, in the beauty room, actually, we were all like making jokes. You asked if I got in the shower. - No, I asked if you guys had sex on the shower. - Sex? - Yes. - Oh, I don't remember that. - Yeah. - I wouldn't tell you in that moment that I'm just going to stand on the right now. - I am the type that I'm like, if I were in your shoes, I may be what it's done the same thing. Like you didn't have to tell me that. - I was going to be honest. I thought not my head already slept with him. And I never asked you about it. And I respected you because you didn't come back to your bed. So for you to ask me, I was kind of like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to say get out of my business, but I just had to hold my arm. - Yeah. - And so it looked bad. This whole situation did look bad, but it happened so fast. And it was so late and I was like midnight and we knew we were packing up and leaving the next night. And I was like, if the girls want to talk to me about it, they can, but in that situation to be honest, I thought that we heard or the way that the house works. - Yeah. - We have people running the house. They're like, so now I didn't come back to her bed. What do you think about that? I was like, good for her. Like I truly was like, it's amazing. Like I was so like respect. Like if that's the part of us felt in the house. - We actually didn't press each other. - We were like, good for you. Like straight up. I told the girl, go kiss them, do what you want. Like the sooner he realizes you like him, you don't, with this process moves better for us. I like honesty, but that moment did put all of us. I'm gonna say in a sticky situation because I was out here being like, girl, like I never asked about you. I'm just gonna hold this to me for now. But if the girls do ask me in Vegas, I'm gonna like say, but then it kinda like dissolves. - Well, no. - There's a scene that shows us all talking about it in the glam room. - Remember we were telling you that we were all spiraling about it so chopped up as well. - Also, at the end of the day, we're not here to investigate each other's relationships. Like that, I don't wanna know. That's your own business. Like that's on him to communicate with us and be respectful to us. Like truly, I could sit here and ask you, you can lie to my face, you can lie to me. Like I, that's on, like I don't care. Harry, that's a whole different story, you know? No, it looks so much more confusing on this show than us. We were actually really respectful of each other. - Yeah, that's the thing I really liked about it too. - What I appreciate about your answer, Sam, is what I think a lot of people in relationships, and it seems like to your point, Amber, that from your, from your PV, Harry, as a habit of, is he doesn't give you the opportunity to decide for yourself, right? Like you just wanted the truth, whatever that truth was, because like, okay now, as an adult human, I can decide whether, do I accept this behavior because I'm in this crazy show, and like it's not real life, and I'm gonna make different decisions, or do I still walk away because at the end of the day, whatever your answer is, you didn't have the opportunity to decide based off what happened, you made a decision based off of like, oh, I don't even know what the fucking truth is. So, I don't even know how to make a decision, but I do feel like he's lying to me. - Yeah, and I think it's just like, I had shared with him like, our conversations were cut out quite a lot, throughout the show, I feel like it's a little confusing, how I even got to top three. But a big conversation we had is like, I was with my ex for eight years, it was like a huge thing for me, and like I gaslit myself throughout the entire relationship, he was a really good liar, and I love to see the good parts of people, you know, like the rose colored glasses, like a huge issue for me. So I was like, please like, tell me I'm not crazy, tell me like you're telling me the truth right now, and I think he reassured me a million times, and I sat there. I think there's like an interview of me like after we get out of the spot, and I'm just like, yeah, I feel really good about everything, like truly like I'm working through this, it's something I'm working on myself, and like, I don't know, he made me feel really comforted in that, and then to see everything play back, it's just like stupid, stupid. - No, you, you were amazing. When I watched that, I didn't know that that's what your guys' relationship was like, I didn't know that this little shower scene, like scene was such a catalyst for it. - Yeah. - You guys, and you did and said exactly what you're meant to, and it's not stupid. - Thank you. - At all Sam. - Back to my kind of a question I had for you ladies earlier on, but maybe I frame it as like, if I don't know if you ladies want to have kids someday, but hypothetically, let's say you do, you have a daughter, and she gets older and she wants to date, say, here he is, here he is. A hairy like. - A hairy guy, a hairy guy. - A hairy like persona. What advice, or what would you do differently to, or what advice would you give your daughter? And let's assume she had a very similar like, you know, I want to kind of go with an open mind, and I don't want people to change, and things like that. But would you ladies that despite, you know, the 10 experience and the making of the friends, and overall, like, you know, everything happens for a reason you're better off mindset, which I think is important to have. But how would you, if any, would you move differently to protect yourself and avoid whatever, you know, traumas or challenges this experience caused? - I don't know, I kind of feel like I would still, like if I had a daughter, I'd be like, yes, if you fill the calling that you need to go and experience this, do it, but just protect your heart and just be smart. And say true to who you are, and just do it, feels right for you. - Okay. - I know it's hard to separate your head and your heart and stuff, but truly just like look at things for what they are, like, I don't know, I think it's so funny watching everything back, because it's like truly just to take myself out of the experience for a second. Like, I imagine watching, I don't know, I always see like these funny memes online, where it's like, imagine your relationship is on Love Island or something. Like, would you be rooting for yourself or would you be like screaming, get away from this man? You know, like, I'm just looking at things for what they are, not how you feel sometimes. And sometimes you just got experience for yourself. Like, you can enforce as much as you want into your kid. Like, don't do this, don't do whatever. They're just gonna do it behind your back type of thing, you know, so just support, that's all. - Our mom's were brought into the show. So like, to be honest, like, my mom, the way she deals with me in relationships, like she knows how I am. I have a high level of respect for myself, but I see things through and I'm so curious and I love a challenge. So she respected me the whole way I supported me. You saw she was skeptical. It's because of where we come from, we've lost a lot. And I think that she trusted me and the way I carry myself in all my relationships. Like, I leave when things, when I get disrespected. I'm not naive. Like, she would never encourage me to not, which I think with my daughter, I raise a daughter. I want her to be connected to her experiences and her growth and self-expansion. And the way I came into this show was like, I really did have a huge shift in my life. Like, I ended things with someone I dated just because I was like, you know what, the next chapter just demands me and self-expansion. Like, I moved to a third-world country. I quit smoking wheat. Like, I changed so much of my life that when I came to this, I trusted myself. So I'm gonna trust my daughter and her, like, self-expansion in her life. When that comes to dating, letting love in and into your field is huge. Of course, it's gonna be hard. But I think my relationship with my daughter will be that trusting, like, you know, that I'm just gonna, I would say go for it, but I, you know, I support you, but know who you are. And this whole experience, my mom has been the same way with me because it has been really fucking hard. Just from post-show to now. - Do you feel like you've processed this breakup and you're fully over it, or do you feel like you still have some healing to do? - Um, I never experienced being with a toxic guy. Ever. Like, I have good experiences dating. So I was really, really, like, mind-fucked of how someone, I think life is hard enough. Why poison that category of your life with someone? Like, start fights and do stuff like that. I was so confused by it. Life got better when he stopped being in my life and that's all good. I have such a good relationship with myself. Like, I was home-schooled. I've run my own business for 15 years. I've never played on sports team. I'm so good being alone. Like, that when it ended, I felt okay as well. And from our breakup to now, I'm just healing the parts of honestly, the reunion was big. That's the first time I saw him. It's really triggering environment for me to come and talk about this stuff and show up because it does feel like such a, I have peace with my past. You know, who's to know what he's gonna say this week? The reunion was crazy. Um, I'm not healing from him. Like, I wish him the best. Hope he got his fairy tale ending. Leave me alone kind of. That's kind of how I feel. But I'm gonna stand up for myself. He gas let me him in. And I felt really used, I felt like he wanted a wife, got one, tossed me to the side, mess around with Danelle, lied to both of us, made me feel terrible when all I did was hold space for your grief and you told me like this show wouldn't be anything without you. For that to be thrown into my face and then him to dismiss me at the reunion too. Of course I'm going to have to heal with this but I healed with this silently and that's why I was frustrated with Danelle 3 union because you know she got broken up with on the show but I got fucked in real life and in silence. I ate that breakup up and I let everyone cyber bully me and I genuinely had such a hard time with that that I do have healing to do but I just want this over like I can now like obviously I couldn't date this year like I couldn't do anything we had a show coming out like not that that stopped him. He has a girlfriend but I'm ready to get my life on track I love shooting photos I love traveling like I really haven't been single like I said I went up on that show my first summer single in a long time I know myself I'm in my 30s now I really can't wait to date and explore people that make me feel good about myself. I'm going to leave this in the past and just do my thing I don't think I have much more to say about healing or that break up with Harry. Danelle did you feel like Amber's frustrations were justified towards you or do you feel like it was maybe a projection of I guess Harry's behavior or whatever I want to call it how do you yeah I mean do you did you take it personally I feel like the reunion was just super heavy in general for everyone well mostly me in Amber. I don't know you know I kind of had an inkling that she might have seen the pictures on Snapchat right so going into it I was like she's probably going to know we're probably going to discuss this. So I have to like sides of it like part of me I am like well first of all obviously Harry liked me he told me that he was single basically acted like we were just getting back together he loves me he's whatever we're getting right back to where we left off I ate it up I was heartbroken for months I was like so happy he reached back out I was like oh my gosh like my heart. I just felt so full so I jump right back into it that's where my head is at for so long just how happy I was to finally like be back in connection with him after the reunion last night. Do you compressing taking everything in you know like I 100% can understand why Amber would be hurt by that a thousand percent like how could he. Switch up so fast from a breakup on the ride to the airport to then hitting me up flying me out to LA and then right after that maybe getting with his girlfriend that he has now like it's like bam bam bam. So like I get the frustration a thousand percent. I will say the now as some I don't know how much you know about my history on reality TV I was a two time runner up on the bachelor at so I experienced what you experienced twice I can empathize with your experience because I don't think there's any other dating scenario in this world where you have this very intense period of time or you connect with someone and usually in these shows like like you three women as finalist you guys kind of crossed a threshold of connection with Harry in the way that so many of the other women didn't because they just had such a limited time right. So certainly as the runner up usually they're the one person who like again you're like I think I'm going to get engaged or I think I'm going to get married and then it just ends and then there's no closure there's no conversation there's nothing. And then you have to deal with that on your own while like telling yourself it's not me well there is a better connection yada yada yada so all I can say is I know that feeling when that person reaches out to you. To reconnect and and all the unanswered questions that you were sitting with however period of time you were sitting with it and and the pole that that is to want to like meet up with that person to get answers and and not feel like you were crazy for developing the feelings that you you felt so I I relate to your experience. Yeah, you know I just feel like at that time I was so vulnerable and he knew he had to have known as soon as I reach out to the channel she's probably going to be right like I can have her in a snap of finger which is annoying because then it's like you flew me out there I was there for two days and then you're just on to the on to the next. How did that weekend end honestly I wish that I had a better answer for you genuinely I think piecing things together that he had already met his now girlfriend that he was probably had other. He was interested in her maybe instead did you leave that weekend thinking you guys want to continue to talk about a future oh no no no so when he was driving me to the airport I feel like I've heard this before. Your story is kind of a similar. Driving to the airport and that's when I was like what's going on and he basically is just like. I don't know just really like in my head about things not really a concrete answer and then I went to the airport crying and basically enough to. The same like putting things down and we were done you're like yeah we were you flew me out and played me walk like you think he was like just hoping to hook up one last time. I don't know I don't know why like why did you even have me go out there did you guys hook up or was it just a week of conversation. No we did hook up so you flew out there with the intention that like this might be rekindling we might. I don't know what his intentions were I have no idea it'll forever be a mystery maybe he can tell us one day who knows is there anything that we didn't discuss with you ladies that happened at the reunion any air you want to clear before we send you ladies on your way yeah honestly I think that. I came in hot to that reunion and I want. It was like this is a really toxic situation that I went through in silence and I felt like I was completely used and drown out so getting on that stage like. Knowing this is the last time I'm going to say what I want to say and look him in and I wanted him to fucking feel it so I told him not because he's going to go run his mouth on every podcast and lie so. We sat down on that couch I watched you guys answer all your questions at the reunion I was watching the green screen I I watched you answer about you and Harry. The way this timeline happened for me was I was picked and felt like the loser to be honest and. From the finale to just all like the bullying and no support from Harry and to going back on the reunion to nobody knowing what happened to finding out on snapchat that didn't know had slept with Harry and I was blindsided by them I had no fucking clue they would both do that to me. It is the biggest slap in the face to look at a picture of your husband kissing someone and say plot twist and then for him to tell you on the phone. Oh it's good TV I was like you think using your dad's story and connecting with me is good TV your fucking disturbed like this has been something that is really really uncomfortable for me that reunion. I just what I want to say is and to now I get where you're coming from because you are a sweet girl you're one of my first friends there you're my roommate they took that away me and to know we're like genuinely I was like this girl could win this thing she's so fucking sweet I love to know I told him our last day I was like if to know is going to give you a better life picked to know like I was blindsided by her and him I find out on that and then I have three days to walk up to this reunion. None of them reached out to me to have a private conversation so I sat down in the reunions that we're doing this all here because nobody took me into consideration so we're going to air it out here I fucking went in I was it is months of him. It like exploiting me on Snapchat as this fake wife while he has a new girlfriend while he's fucking to know while he's running like his mouth about finding marriage and I'm just sitting here just taking it like it's so hard to do a show where you can't say anything wait to the reunion ever which I was like dude I'm going to like this is so unhealthy for me so what people see at the reunion is is a girl who came in with like yeah good intentions and I was I was blindsided. I was blindsided but that that hurt a lot and you needed your closure but to trust a guy who lied to you and said he was going to marry you and trust him again like you could have hit my line and be like are you guys finished if he wrapped the show with you and reached out to me I would say are you guys broken up I would just consider you so I felt really shitty about this so when I came in and I came in we never talked and the thing is is like we talked since the show came out supporting each other. I felt so bad for her getting dumped in the dress but meanwhile I went through a breakup silently and she was with him like so when I hear that I'm like yo I love. No, why would you do this to me, you know, so I was hurt and things I said at the reunion were hurtful and I'm sorry that we have to watch that back because I was really angry at you and you know what I am but I want to just leave it here because I want to wrap up this chapter of my life. After hearing Denel's point of view, Amber, do you feel like she still owed you that phone call or do you have a better appreciation that she was going through her own experience having come off the show and again like I don't know it's like to be the winner but I certainly know like the point of view from a winner because like like you're right, Amber, the winner of the bachelor or where these types of shows it's one of the hardest experiences because you feel the most alone while everyone else is connecting for not being picked but every what especially the final has their own kind of own trauma to unpacked and I guess I'm just curious after hearing Denel's perspective do you still feel like she owed you that or do you have a better appreciation for what she was going through. I think we're just such different girls I can't expect her to move like me or to do anything like I saw I see where she's coming from but I just would have called the wife. I'm like hey your man's hitting me up you guys were not straily last week it's in the group chats everyone was piecing together free were together like don't trust the man that lied to like if you wanted a credible source like even if me and Harry were done I would have been like you guys deserve your closure too when we came off the show Denel wanted to talk to Harry and I was like can I talk to Denel? I was like of course talk to her get your closure I didn't think they would fucking hook up like that was way that was way before though yeah just to clarify that wasn't like a so I yeah that was yeah I I would like to just say though too is I am sorry you know I feel like I definitely so just some context here me and Amber the first time we spoke after the show was just this month we just connected a couple weeks ago right before the show came out I think so I am sorry that you were hurt why my actions you know that was never my intention you know I think you're an amazing woman obviously could I have handled it differently sure I think my heart and my mind were just a mess when it was happening I think if I could change anything if I would do anything different I honestly would probably once we reconnected recently I would have told you before I don't think I would have changed calling you when he told me because I genuinely believed him that I didn't feel like I needed to do that and be causing a freeway like drama by calling you and him and like be what's going on what's this what's that like that's just that's just what I decided to do in that moment I guess honestly I don't know if I could change anything I wish I would have at least given you a heads up so I'm sorry for that that's okay I think I mean I feel you I get that it was a crazy situation he is not the best person we know that finding out on snap and then waiting to see if you would say anything no no I was like hey we're gonna have not the reunion then like this is so disrespectful that's how I felt so yeah that was hard for me and at the end of the day if you got your closure with him all good um I don't really have anything more to say about that yeah yeah I I think I don't know I was just viewing it for my person like if if my friends man even likes my story I'm just I'm screenshotting that she's sending it to a girl like what the fuck is he moving like this for I'm so like that what do you mean by that what do you mean I just like if a guy reached out to me I would kind of like ask the last girl he was hey are you guys still together but like I said like she was in a head space like like across the board like you get a you some some guy listens to this podcast and it's like well she's single she's beautiful she's available I'm gonna hit her up the first thing you're doing is stalking his page and reaching out to his ex this is a different situation I was married to him like the week of like the month before no I'm just I yeah maybe I was just misunderstanding it sounded like you're like in any situation I wasn't gonna do that yeah no I was going operating off of the situation I was currently living which was it was very obvious in the group chat to the girls they all knew we were in Australia together days before this took place so what I'm speaking on is that gotcha you know like I'm just clearing it up and selling the score now because it was so obvious everyone knew we got married everyone knew we were together Harry lied to her but it's like we're friends too you could genuinely ask me and I would say yes or now and honestly like yeah we we've discussed that we would have done things differently on both sides I think with the reunion coming out it's hard because I was in that head space yesterday I felt betrayed it was so hard to walk up into this toxic environment for the last time haven't seen Harry in eight months he been acting like he's married while he's not using my name like I was so heated and I was I was mounted to know like I you'll see it in there so I knew I would see you today too and that we would come to a more calm place but like that stage is where I really wanted to show people like this is how it went you guys all that this is what I'm feeling so yeah is there a path forward for the two of you to be friends I loved to know I mean you're I don't know if you hate me from yesterday but I was mad at you and you saw that and I'm sorry too for coming on you that hard but holy shit I was really yeah I was sad no and I yeah completely see where you're coming from and I don't blame you at all I don't hold anything against you I feel like heat of the moment too you're just spilling how you feel and that's what it was and you deserve to be able to do that too yeah so I think finding out on snapchat was what really set me off and then saying a plot twist I was like damn you throw that at my face both you willingly taking this picture and doing that slapping my face like this is so disrespectful Sam you're here someone is going to ask the question but you can plead the fifth and it's your birthday so you can be like I don't want to answer this question but since you're here like how do you see this situation and would do you have any POV of of how you would have liked to have been handled this how you know if you were in the situation I was a little sad that Harry got you know that little bit from both of them that like he wanted the girls fighting I think that's one thing for sure is like I was watching the reels I was watching the social media he was like pitting the girls against each other he brings up the group chat oh I get screenshots we're all like who's the rat in the group chat you know what I mean so I think it like directed the attention of like oh this guy sucks to like each other which was like unfortunate to watch I guess I really like in that moment wanted to be like guys guys like wait like yes this sucks and like you're allowed to have your moment a million percent that's part of all of this but like let's redirect it for a second because he hardly spoke and I don't know I think now he has the opportunity to go on the podcast and like really think through what he wants to say inform you like whatever versus all of us we're sitting there in the moment live experiencing this and like you know I'm really curious like I don't feel like any of us got any sort of closure which is like what I came there for in a lot of ways if Harry decided to come on this podcast and give me a chance to ask him questions what would you want me to ask him or what how would you want him to be challenged if at all I feel like he needs the girls in front of him honestly like that eye to eye contact he's so good at you know formulating his own version of things and like we saw it in real time as he's speaking to you he's like no this is what happened you're like Harry stop lying like he lied the whole reunion like it's there's no so like I think he needs someone in front of him to check him and be like wait that's not how this happened so now he gets to go on his podcast and say whatever he wants I'm really curious how that's gonna unfold you probably won't be surprised so you probably don't have to waste your time I won't be surprised yeah that's true I don't even see it as a waste of time it's just like almost comical for me to watch at this point you know what I mean because it's just like man I dodged a bullet like no offense guys you know what I mean but it's just like geez I mean I be curious Sam do you I mean I get no offense to anyone else but do you feel a sense of I guess a personal pride or glad that you chose to end things the way you did do you feel good about that I'm not sure exactly how to word this I feel like it's not like a ha ha yeah I did it right whatever it's more like a yeah I was really sad in the moment and for months I was gaslighting myself wondering if I had made the right choice and if I was being crazy and like it wasn't me you know laughing walking away from it it was more of just like comfort and knowing that I made the right choice I guess I mean there's definitely I mean listen I've I've had a lot of relationships ups and downs and it's I've definitely dated the wrong people I've you know picked the wrong people but I guess from my own personal experiences when I started just realizing as whatever roles I was playing or you know like and just making better decisions for myself regardless of who I was dating or or or how many chances I gave them that that's just that's how things got a little better for me because it was like that was the only thing I could control so I get what you're saying because let the end of the day you made a decision in hindsight it felt like you made the right decision and that must feel pretty empowering so I hear you and just him at the reunion saying well it makes good TV it was like fuck you're right congrats my guess you know you got what you wanted me to go you also just miss it uh Amber you kind of you referenced a few times in this interview to him mentioning the passing of his father or you mentioned I think you said something about using grief what did you what do you mean by that because I don't want people to misinterpret What you're saying or or put words in your mouth. Do you feel like him bringing up the passing of his father was was insincere or or was that not what you're speaking on we came to a really heated part of the reunion Where I think you guys could notice he was kind of like checking out defending himself Gaslighting us once again laughing under his breath. I was sitting right next to him He's like doesn't matter. This is gonna get edited and you guys are gonna cut out anyway. He was being dismissive as he's been with me and I think with him saying This is good TV. I just Through everything I've seen him on podcasts. He Said he decided to do this show because He had lost his dad and he was looking for someone so I took that really seriously and To see him laugh and make fun of the girls and not take it seriously or even like He was so shallow in the reunion like to see him be a completely different person outside of the show Where he like got us to love him because he was like experiencing that grief Where is I really really took his grief seriously so for him to not take it seriously and I'm say it's good TV I was just like don't ever try to get someone close to you and use that and then dismiss them like this. You know, I think So hard. I think a lot of people fall into toxic relationships because we sympathize for people women are super nurturing. We really really We want to help someone out on a hard time and men need women, you know like and women need vice versa But I think that I don't really believe in relationships like Like he brought at me and like our relationship was so that tone like we really saw each other in that way Stepping forward in life after this of like K. We kind of both have experienced similar things and then the way he Responded to some of my energy at the reunion. It was just like wow. You're a completely different person like You know, so that was how I felt with the whole grief thing and His friends were there and the confidence came out. I don't know if you guys kind of I know we didn't really talk about this but all of his friends do have his best interest like Georgia and Amanda are amazing and You know sunny said some things about me that we're just like I said you're cut from the same cloth like He told me I wasn't classy because I allowed Harry to do things to me. I'm like How does that make any sense? What do you mean better? That's what I was confused at. Did you guys hear a sunny gaslight? I was gonna ask you how you felt about all of that because The only beef I have I was like dude sunny is like I thought he was the most level-headed guy in the show I do believe he wants Harry's you know interest I think Harry really looks up to him. I don't I never thought anything negative of him. He's protective of Harry I get that but I brought my heart and my grief into this too and he didn't date Harry He doesn't know what it's like like you think he's like I've known him for 20 years It's like or whatever he said. I was like the way he spoke to me. I was like this is a part of the problem like you're Now defendant did we watch the same show like I'm not classy. Did you watch your friend on the show bro? Like don't come at me. So he said the whole grief thing like oh Amber like don't use the grief I was like I have grief to and you don't know what? Where we stood on our connection? Yeah, Harry tells you what you want to hear So that was kind of just like really frustrating for me to get fired at again with someone who has no idea He was just like saying something along the lines of like People get to express their grief however they want or experience it And I was just like curious like what you thought of that I guess because like he said a lot of things for sure He was just like straight protecting Harry a million percent and I was just like confused what he meant by that I guess I don't know it was you talking in terms of his father's passing and how he's processed that grief Yeah, and he's just like you don't get to say how people process their grief and I'm like by making a show to like Mary a bunch of like you know the whole tone of the show was not to put Harry in the light of being a fuck boy It was like it was that he did lose his dad and he wants to start a family This is what I'm trying to like say and so You know he's coming out like guns blazing like oh, you don't know about his grief and it's like Yeah, but like your friend behaved this way and I don't want to get blamed for that like it was wild Yeah, I mean listen I completely get where you ladies are coming from because I think it's very fascinating to hear your perspective of what you thought was How you thought the show was framed right because in and making reality TV It's it's very common that especially in casting that they present something and then you show up and it's very different So I hear you there I will say like you know, and I'm sure you you know have heard this from like to let you as point of view like the bachelor's famous For highlighting people's trauma and their stories and and and there's a lot of pressure even from producers and production to like Well, what's your sad story, right? So I imagine maybe Harry's friend if I'm trying to at least empathize You know because again the past name of a parent. I you know, thankfully. I don't know what it's like But I guess I I would I would be careful to make a connection that like it was Harry's idea To frame this experience in his motivation and that's why it's like he didn't come up with the show But it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint to highlight this of You know what like what's his motivation? Like they're gonna do that with any any lead And every lead has a story and and often, you know, you know if if I don't know what your lady's personal experiences in life and traumas But like it's it's pretty common for for producers to want to pull that out, right? Well, yeah They said he wanted to change because of this and then he didn't really change and I experienced a lot of toxicity with him outside They show so that's what I was speaking on and something so he can't speak on for me So that's kind of how I was a little bit like don't call me Unclossy when that's great. That seems like you're literally moving the way he did like I'm good off that Anything else before we let you ladies go the floor the floor is yours I just don't I don't want you guys to leave and feel like you didn't get to say what you wanted to say I wanted to have one last conversation with Harry just Because I'm like what is our beef? What's our problem here? I think I kind of like went at him a little bit Maybe at the ring just like sharing my thoughts and experiences because I never got to have that last You know elimination conversation whatever So I had that moment, but then I don't know he like made Reels like afterwards on Instagram and TikToks and stuff like talking about me and my roommate shit like just like different things and One of them was like the girls asking like Who are your favorites on the show and he's like oh everyone in the top five but Sam and I'm like He said oh yeah, like he just didn't mention me and I was just like oh, okay Um, I don't know what I did like I just left like peacefully because I was just like this isn't for me and I felt like He's made videos and whatever and like yeah I've made my funny little videos as well, but like I don't know I just I wish I knew I guess and like I was hoping to hear that at the reunion. Do you think? Maybe him maybe you leaving on your own accord Which was unique especially when it comes to the finalist that he like if you think it hard as ego and you think maybe that it's a him lashing out Because of like he didn't get to control that narrative in the way that he was able to with The other contestants. I have no idea Maybe like that's, you know, what the comment section tells me We can only get that would yeah, that's just one thing from the room. You know I was really hoping to get and I didn't get that at all. So, you know That's what it is. Well, I want to thank you ladies for coming here and sharing your story I know obviously in the past 40 hours have been a lot for all of you and I am glad that Despite everything you all went through that you you viewed this experience as a positive one and And yeah, I mean like these these experiences that very few of us get to have there. They are life-changing and You can definitely learn a lot about yourself if you're open to it So it sounds like you all have been it's all been positive and I think you know despite all the ups and downs You all seem like you're happy in a happier place. So I that I'm glad that's the case. What's next for you ladies? And then we'll wrap there. Let's marry Sam season two just kidding Just kidding. Would you want to be with any of you? Absolutely. Okay. I I want to find my husband I'm like, let's go Anyone but Harry I guess and if it's not on reality TV if there's a you know, it's mostly women listening to the show But if there's any any any Jimmy's out there if what are you looking for in a man? Like what what who should who should DM you no rap boys. Oh She knows The Timothy Shalamay's taken so that's off the table. Are you still in the rap oil? Oh, yeah, someone saved me however yes And is it like is it is it skinny or do you want short too? No, not short. I never need like Yeah, never short. I need a Pete Davidson a Timothy Shalamay like a Victorian child starving me and oh, so good. - And you want them to be pale skin? Is it like, can they have a tan? - They can have a tan, you know? I'm not that picky. (laughing) I had to shoot my shot, you know? - What about you Danelle? What's next for you? Would you wanna have a Let's Married Danelle season? - I would definitely do a Let's Married Danelle, you know? I've been ready to be married for years, honestly. All my best friends know this about me. But honestly right now, I have not been dating. I don't even look twice at a guy right now. Anytime a guy hits me in my DMs, I'm like, ew. Like I'm just, I'm so turned off by it right now. I don't know. I think I just need some alone time. - Okay, okay, healthy. How about you Amber? - What's next? Honestly, I love my life. I love being single. I love traveling. I wanna, you know, really get into my bikini business. I have a bikini brand and clothing brand. I wanna connect with girls in travel the world and have more of like a self-expansion era. That's where I'm at with everything. It's confusing like, I'm such a boyfriend. Like I'm such a relationship girl. I like having a boyfriend, but I'm okay with not having one right now. And I'm not the type that looks, it just comes to me. So I believe that when that's time to come, it'll come. Like that's energy, I believe in that. I believe in timelines. I believe in all those beautiful things. So I'm not gonna let this experience hurt me. It's actually softened me. I got to know myself better and I know what to ask for and I don't play about me. And this whole relationship or marriage, whatever, you know, everyone wants to take it for. It really gave me an opportunity to show up for myself once again. I'm proud of myself through it. And would it be fun to date? Yes, but I'm always going to protect my heart and learn through this. So that's where I'm at. - Let's marry Amber. - I don't want to date 20 guys at once, actually. But maybe that could be like, I'm going to be fun. - I'm going to be fun. - I'm like, yeah, I'm really up. Like if I don't like you, I'll say, hey, you're going home. Like I don't think I can. - I think girls will handle it so differently. - I'm so different when it comes to dating. - Well, being the lead of any of these shows, it's fucking sucks. - I'm sure it's not easy. You know, you have to break a lot of hearts. - Tonightmare, it's a nightmare. You're responsible for everyone's immune motions and feelings and you know, to make one person happy is to make another person sad. I think it's different when you're, it's a woman lead versus a male lead, but both difficult experiences. But also I have no regrets. And you guys, you know, I hope if you're given the opportunity, you guys say yes. Amber, do you think of Harry as your ex-husband? - For a short moment of time, yeah. Like, to be honest, the wedding, like the wedding was amazing. Like, everyone that went, like, it was so fucking cool. Like, it was incredible. - That's crazy, like you experienced a wedding. - It was crazy, it was so cool. Um, now I don't like, I don't care. Like, Harry, the thing is, is also frustrated. I mean, so if I like, I'm a little sad for him. Like, he does have great qualities that he just is just, I don't know. I don't, I really don't know what to even consider Harry as, I definitely think he's my ex. - Yeah, I consider him my ex-husband. I went through a crazy process where we dated each other until that was like the tone of what it was. I'm so honest in real life, like if I'm, where I'm at with guys, like, so, I was honest through that too. Yeah, he's someone I married at a point in time, you know? But I'm divorced now. I'm so fucking glad to be divorced and I've never been happier. - And you didn't really have to go through, you didn't have to hire a lawyer, so what a win. - Yeah, it's amazing. And I want him to be happy, find his person, I'm not his person, all good. - Yeah, and he's no longer your problem, so also a win. - Yeah, he, yeah. - Sam, have a very happy birthday. I hope the rest of it is filled with a lot less drama. - Thanks. Don't text your ex happy birthday. Yeah, Harry, don't fucking text me, thank you. - Yeah, right. To be, he hasn't reached you happy birthday. - Oh, okay. - Especially after yesterday, I don't, I'm probably blocked at this point. - Well, I wish you ladies the best of luck. - I'm sure your futures will be full of brightness and happiness and y'all, I'm sure will be better for this experience. I do appreciate you taking the time and thanks for being honest about your experience. And yeah, I just tell the best to you guys in the future and rooting for you guys. - Thank you so much. - All right, take care, thanks for taking the time. (upbeat music)