E1170 - Shannon Beador Talks RHOC + Mom Shaming Epidemic, Let's Marry Harry & Married At First Sight

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Volphiles Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host Nick, join by the household. We got Sierra Suzy. We got Justin Bailey's in the room. We also have Jimmy Soda's back returning as like an unofficial member of the household. It's been great getting it on you, man. A young man who loves the content that we love talking about who's a balls deep in the reality TV. Yeah, very much so. Unfortunately, so it's kind of gotten me about a balls, yeah. I can't let guts to talk about it because this, you know, you can get some heat. I do feel like, I do feel like the sign of an emotionally mature person and man is a willingness to enjoy and talk about some of these emotional situations that we often find ourselves washing on reality TV. Did you think of yourself as like a emotionally superior young man? I did it, but the low key, I feel like the girls rallied around my takes on the internet. I might be doing some, right? My dudes was proud of it, so people just wait until they don't agree with you. Yeah. Well, you know you're in the wrong when all the guys are like, "This is the right take." If it's the, if it's the girls, you're probably doing something right. If it's dudes, it's funny. I'll get into it. My homies about it. I'm like, bro, y'all, you're missing the point here. Yeah. Well, we have a lot of fun shows to talk about. We got married at first sight. Let's marry Harry. Harry's getting married. Whatever. We have the queen, the icon, the housewife who we love. Shannon Bedore is with us this episode and she is enjoyable and delightful, as always, and she is later this episode. Very excited for you guys to hear that conversation. Oh, she's one of my favorites, just a breath of fresh air. She's just brightens my day. Love that. How can anyone get upset by Shannon Bedore? I don't know. I need to talk. I need to get something off my chest. Yeah. Talk to us. I need to talk. Mom shaming has gotten out of control. Here we go. Agreed. Do you know what mom shaming is? No, excited to learn about that. You know, we talked last week about like, tradwives. And I think the, you know, tradwives are what he's on a different side of talk. Welcome. Welcome to La Fals. Just like tradwives. Mom shaming has become this nuanced conversation where we're ripping apart and critiquing moms for talking about their lived experience about being moms. And it's like the only result is now we're just going after moms for trying to talk about something that like they're clearly obviously passionate about also simultaneously scared and worried about if they're doing the right thing. But it's just gotten out of control. And the amount of like men and non-moms critiquing moms for sharing their experience about being moms is fucking crazy. You might ask why I'm so. I was going to ask. Where is coming from? Over the weekend. My wife, Natalie. She says hi by the way. Posted this video, which it was like the nannet or we have a nannet got shout out, nannet. And it was like her sleeping monitor. And it was like showing moments of her like cuddling with river, right? And I guess she was following some trend, which is really beside the point. But she was just like, I would take this over sleep training any day, right? And sleep training is just like a type of, I don't know, parenting style, I guess, when your kids are young, you know, my thought has the dad and was like, Oh, what do you mean? She sleeps. She sleeps. She's trained. I don't know. Is there more to it? Yeah. Turns out there is for us, just like how we've gone about it. And it really honestly is really selfish of us because like rivers are pretty good sleeper. She always has slept pretty well. But like she would wake up and before the twin showed up, once she woke up, we would just bring her into bed with us. And honestly, it's been some of the most like magical moments as parents, like as she gets older, it's just like there's just so many just like memorable moments. Like for example, this weekend, I got up, you know, she woke up. So I went and slept in rivers by with river. I wake up. It's like six in the morning. I look over rivers already up and she's reading a book. Just waiting for me to get up. And then once I was up, she started like in her version of reading a little boot truck. If you know it, you know it. And it's just like, it's just so fucking, it's just a memory like, oh my god, my daughter, my daughter, who like I remember just like again, a world where she didn't exist. And then when she was born just being this little potato. And now I'm lying next to her. And she's it's just like such a memorable moment. Like and that was just a choice that we made, right? Would you be dad shamed for that? Is that right? Question Jimmy. I've never heard of the term dad shaming because like I heard mom say, well, it's it exists. If you search mom shaming on on tiktok, how much content is there? Unless I would say and let's see, you've mentioned my sub-sack. I have a sub-sack. I've leaned into talking about being a father and I'm like, yeah, I do the dishes or whatever. And I'm a hero. Yeah. He takes the babies to the park by himself. And they're like, my god, how do you guy? I'm how do you do it? Where I'm like, a mom has three babies on their arms. And it's just like, anybody want to offer it a little help? Wait, as a guy who doesn't usually enjoy the benefits of praise online. When I talk about being a dad, I can't find criticism. But by doing the bare minimum of those. It's like, see I made a good point. I'm not an absent father. I got to get all my god, this man's a hero. Yeah, I got to start. I got to start getting active. Meanwhile, the mom shaming old discourse has turned into this nuanced conversation of how we're critiquing how moms talk about momming. So anyways, so she put out this video. And the reality is it wasn't even a thing, right? Most people had the appropriate response was to like focus on like what Natalie was focusing on, which is like the quality times she's having her daughter. And like, I don't know. There was like a couple. I don't know. There was quite a couple of few comments. And it was like almost overwhelmingly positive. But there were a couple of moms who chimed in who seemed to have, I guess, done the sleep training thing who were just advocating for sleep training, which is also just, I think I, I celebrate the discourse, right? But then Natalie is seeing this kind of snowball, right? And seeing some people engage with this. And then there were, there was one or two people who like accused her of momm shaming. And then Natalie had some like serious PTSD. Because if you follow the show and you'll have paid attention to Natalie and I, she has been under fire for momm shaming, which in itself was crazy. Back, I think it was like early December. Whitney Levitt was coming off a dancing with the stars. Nally, huge fan of Whitney, especially on dance with the stars. If you watched it, like she just absolutely crushed, Whitney is a mom of three. She got casted on Chicago. And so we were talking about it. Natalie, now what people didn't know at the time, Natalie had just found out she was pregnant with twins. So she can't talk, she's not talking about it. She also like for the, you know, this was after her experiencing three miscarriages, right? So like, obviously, we were super excited when she, we found out she was pregnant again, but incredibly nervous, incredibly scared. And this was like in the early stages with the pregnancies, she had never got past like eight or nine or whatever. It was a really scary time. And as if you don't know, like just a mom being stressed is like the work, like the absolute worst thing that can a mom can experience during pregnancy. And that's the thing that can affect the pregnancy of the most, I'm pretty sure, like just stress. So you know, we, like we get to find out we're, we're having twins. Exciting. Obviously also terrifying. You know, it's just like when you're, you find out your family's going to grow, it's exciting, but you're like, you're literally like, fuck, how are we going to fucking, how are we going to do this, bro? Got to double up. Not to mention my wife, Natalie, is a working mom. She's, she works. She's, she influenced, she's on the show every day. And so being a fan of Whitney, she was just like, how does she do it? You know, was, was the general like theme of, of the message, right? And so we had a conversation. And then there is a creator out there, Steph with the Deats, who made a video. And like accused Natalie of mom shaming. Keep in mind, she had just found out she's having twins. And again, well, she had, she wasn't comfortable announcing at this point, but while excited, as a working mom, we're lucky enough that age of attraction was picked up. We have to go film that it's not film where we live. And that's like another thing that pops our head is like, how the fuck are we going to, how are we going to do this? Like, it's, it was one thing with one kid, which was already hard. And we're lucky enough, again, to have help. But even with help, every parents is like, fuck, how do you do this, right? So being an admirer of Whitney, she was like, I wonder a mom of three, how, like, I want to be like Whitney, love it. Like, Natalie, young mom, simultaneously while being a young mom is getting these incredible opportunities. And her dreams are coming true all at the same time. And it's just like a very challenging thing for any mom to figure how to manage both. This is the actual conversation that we had on the vial files about this topic. Here we go. Whitney, our girl, Roxie, hot baby. You called it. I feel like Nick with Taylor Frankie Paul. I think this is like great for her. I honestly think this is exactly what she needs to do. I am curious though. Can she say? I don't know, but I guess she'll learn. She can't, she will. She can do anything. I am curious though, because obviously we had, you know, Taylor Frankie Paul doing being the bachelor at. And she got a lot of criticism for like leaving her children and like prioritizing her and her career and finding love and whatever. I am curious how Whitney and maybe this is just on like a. human level mom level question of just like how she's managing both right because right now her career has skyrocketed she just did dancing with the stars for what three four months I know she has kids in like school level maybe their homeschooled I don't know but like how like to be an LA for four months doing dancing with the stars and then to now shift to New York City doing Chicago like that's takes so much of her time how is she managing like prioritizing being a mom and her kids who I imagine have some sort of schedule in routine that like you know and I know their home base was Utah so it's like I just was so curious three I'm just so curious like how that I mean they moved to LA for dancing with the stars right I feel like I saw a tick-tock saying that that's what they were doing yeah and I think Connor you know is very hands on very stand yeah yeah yeah also I mean as a person with no kids like I don't know how to do that but I do feel like there are a lot of like especially on Broadway like there are a lot of Broadway stars with kids and like people who seem to figure it out and like serve on the stage oh I'm sure she'll not I just think it's a fascinating question to now like it is it is interesting dancing with the stars and Broadway for Whitney it's like it's not her you know to your point Mary if like if Whitney just becomes let's say for the next six years she's like she's she's Roxy from Chicago I mean she'll figure it out it'll become their new life yeah to Nellie's point Whitney has gone from all right let's we're just we're gonna uproot our life from moving to LA we're gonna do dancing with the stars and then now we're gonna uproot our life we're gonna go to New York we're gonna do Broadway it's a lot for all them I mean it's yet to their credit I mean I'm curious how they're making it all work people don't do Roxy from more than like a stent though right but even to Nellie's point I'm like even if it's like a month two month run like she's still gonna have eight to ten shows a week and then she's also like rehearsal you know I feel like they're just even you get like one day off like you know Whitney Carson from Dancing With The Stars who I know has two young boys like during filming of Dancing With The Stars it's like they depend so much on their you know I don't know if they take their kids out of school I don't know if they're just away from their kids for the four month three month period or if their kids you know a lot of them don't even live in LA so like I'm just so curious like how it's managed obviously we have worked very busy we're constantly on the go we don't have you know she's not in school or anything yet so we're still able to do that but we realize like once she is in school our life has to drastically slow down you know and it's like I just can't imagine what is going through Whitney's head of like I'm finally getting like everything I've ever wanted in my life and it's obviously happening at a time where like she's got three kids who I'm sure like demand her attention just as much as Roxy Hart in Dancing With The Stars does so it's just like fascinating how everyone manages it all I don't know yeah this was the video that Steph at the Deeds made as a follow-up I guess to the conversation you just heard not Nick Ville and wife Natalie basically mom shaming Whitney love it I'm finally getting like everything I've ever wanted in my life and it's obviously happening at a time where like she's got three kids who I'm sure like demand her attention just as much as Roxy Hart in Dancing With The Stars does gotta say Natalie fully judging Whitney because she is taking these opportunities is a really hard to listen and also gotta say if this was a man taking these opportunities and if he had children no one would be questioning the man actually what she needs to do I am curious though can she sing I don't know but I guess she'll learn she can she will yeah she can do anything I and Nick's little can she sing for your information Nick Whitney had said that she will be doing singing lessons and Mark Ballis actually has like a singing coach that he's going to hook her up with great can we pause for a second it's someone who can't sing I just admire people who can sing and this is an honest fucking question why I can dance to sing like just wanted to know I'm curious though because obviously we had you know Taylor Frankie Paul doing being the bachelor at and she got a lot of criticism for like leaving her children and like prioritizing her in her career and finding love and whatever I am curious how Whitney and maybe this is just on like a human level mom level question of just like how she's managing both right because right now her career has skyrocketed she just did dancing with the stars for what three four months I know she has kids in like school level maybe they're homeschooled I don't know but like how like to be an L.A. for four months doing dancing with the stars and then to now shift to New York City doing Chicago like that's takes so much of her time how is she managing like prioritizing being a mom and her kids who I imagine have some sort of schedule and routine that like you know and I know their home base was Utah so it's like I just so curious three I'm just so curious like here's the thing talk about Whitney on the show and whatever she does on the show but to then be like I wonder how she's gonna make this blah blah blah definitely judging Whitney for taking these opportunities that mind you is not just for her it's literally for her family's well-being also let's not forget her husband Connor is a stay at home dad so while she's in New York for a few months taking this huge opportunity the kids will be okay I think it's one thing to like not like someone's behavior on a show and call them out on it but it's a whole other thing when you're literally mom shaming them the whole I'm just curious that is you passing judgment that's not being curious you're not curious you don't care honestly why should you care it's not your children right they have a fully involved father and it's actually funny because when they had announced Hailer Freaky Paul as the bachelor at they were talking about out of their podcast and Nick was so excited because he had called that they didn't bring this up and this is probably why Nick Vile is no longer the host of the Secur lives of Mormon wise reunion so anyways this created a whole thing I don't know if you know what it's like to have the weight of the internet come for you but it's heavy heavy it's scary and so Nallie's pregnant with twins she just found out very like very sensitive time and so I'm all I'm thinking about is I'm just telling Nallie like to shit doesn't matter who gives a fuck you know whatever I'm just like literally thinking about the health of my wife and my unborn babies this is the only thing that's going on my mind and Nallie is like in tears right she DMs Whitney it was just like yo I'm sure you have better things to do but if this is like if this cross is your desk like this is not what I meant and and you know I think you're amazing I'll never forget like two two nights later we're at the lake we're watching TV and like again Nallie had a lot of anxiety about just like this pregnancy because she had three minutes characters prior to this my mom we I have 10 brothers and sisters she's had 11 kids I don't know if you know that but whoa my mom's mom before and so obviously my mom has like a lot of insight in just her experience and so my mom I don't know what she made his comment where she's like well as long as you don't like experienced cramps and again my mom's not a doctor but she just you know what I don't she just said it I don't know later that night we're lying in bed and Nallie just started experiencing these excruciating cramps right and just it was it was just not normal it was like every few minutes she just be hit with this pain that was like it like you would think someone's dying right and in that moment like we were both like oh fuck it's happening again like we we went to bed that night not worried that it's happening like we we went to bed thinking she's having that's rough was a terrible fucking thankfully that's not what happened turns out it's just one of the many things that pregnant mothers have to deal with and like turns out when I guess if you're pregnant with twins your body is like yo we about to have some twins showing up yeah so we're gonna fuck up your inside of your body and just make fucking room yeah and that was apparently the pain that Nallie was experiencing again just a lot of things that like pregnant moms have to experience that are just like it's scary it's it just fucks up your body fucks up your mental it just fucks up your emotions and so again like to that point you have a bunch of moms is trying to figure it the fuck out and so like yeah it was just a terrifying fucking time while like no one's giving the moms the benefit of the doubt being a parent you know what I'm saying like it is it you just there's so much information out there which is you know it's what sucks about this whole thing this mom shaming is it is stopped like great information being out there once Nellie found out she was pregnant with twins like she's she watched a ton of like twin mom videos and she found many of them incredibly helpful as a new dad I'm paying a lot more attention to like parenting discourse out there the thing I've noticed though is like being a parent is a thing like I've honestly like enjoy talking about the most these days because it's like something I'm really passionate about but also it is like a scary space to talk about because like there's just so much vitriol and like people critiquing how people talk about it it's stopped people from wanting to talk about it and honestly as parents who honestly everyone's just trying to figure out the fuck out they want the information right and parents can then decide from that point what is useful to them what is not useful to them the reality is when it comes to parenting there's so many like there's a lot of like definitely some core tenants and bass practices of like yeah you should you know try this not try this and there are certainly is like child experts out there that have some really useful information about like especially like explaining like how your child like your your kids three years old well this is how their brain works and that's like as a parent been super helpful yeah everything else there's just a million different like ways of doing that and parents are just like picking and choosing what works for them because everything is situational you know some people have help. Some people don't have help. Some people like have kids who have different personalities. You know, God forbid your kid has to, you know, deal with something that changes the equation of how you parent. And so instead of mom specifically being able to like go out there and share their experience, because like listen, every, every parent specifically moms, like they're just celebrating their wins. Because when you're a mom, every mom experiences so much just like guilt and they have their own shame. You know what I'm saying? They have their own guilt about like how their body is showing up for them and their babies. And like anything that doesn't go well, it's like it's something moms take personally. And so when moms, like have a moment, like now they had a moment with River and wants to celebrate that and talk about it, like we're just critiquing how moms talk about it. And a way that's like the only thing mom shaming has become is shaming moms for wanting to talk passionately about something that's really important going on their life. And again, I don't know what stuff of the deed situation is. But like the fact that we're not giving moms the benefit of the doubt to talk about this experience in a way that allows them to just speak without fear of how people are going to nitpick it. And again, like I think it's great that parents are out there comparing. Like have the discourse compare what works for you and not working for you. But that's not mom shaming to have a conversation about different styles that work. Like the sleep training thing. I have a lot of respect for the parent because like that's a discipline thing, right? And what I've learned when it comes to parenting, the hardest part about parenting is the figure out how you're going to discipline your kid. When it comes to disciplining, you have a choice to make. Is it like do you have to like really lean in and say no and hold your ground because like that's like a long term benefit in the short, you know, like sometimes like for example, sleeping with River, we're doing it for us. You know, we're not necessarily doing it for River. She's also only two and a half and we're not like worried that we're going to fuck her up in anyway. But like that's just like a choice we made. There's no right or wrong. Like if you if you're if you're getting a full night sleep because you've done the work, God bless you. You're not no one's critiquing that. But the way the internet and again, it's not even real life. Real life is moms out there in the wild just supporting each other, helping each other out, being like you got this 100 times out of 100 when we've interacted with young parents. That's all it is. It's just positive reinforcement. It's encouragement. It is support. None of this bullshit you're seeing online with us like attacking moms for talking about being moms and assuming the worst or moms being curious and genuinely wanting to know how other successful parents and moms who are working are being successful knowing full well that like your life is about to change and you don't know how the fuck you're going to figure it the fuck out regardless of how much help you have or don't have, especially moms. Like I I can go to work and know that I show up and I don't feel that, you know, pressure. Now like right now she's breastfeeding, you know, it's like there's this against a lot of internalized guilt and shame of like leaving, you know, like like now that river gets older, it's the best, right? Especially for me because like once it's it's and it was honestly crazy because we were kind of nervous. We knew that we kind of like spoiled ourselves when it came to like letting river sleep with us and we did that up into the point where the twins were born. So we were like, oh fuck, once the twins show up, she's not going to be able to sleep with us because we're going to have to do all the feeding. It's going to wake her up and shut like that and but like as soon as the twins showed up, River immediately was like was attached to her bed and she wanted us to come. It was like kind of like almost like, oh shit, like how did she figure that it was wild. I'm sharing so many more moments with River because again now she has to share us as parents and it's kind of this organic thing where I think she's gravitating to me a little bit more. When it comes to moms and their kids, they're the North Star, you know what I'm saying? And listen, moms love their kids. But like when when every moment of every day every kid you have, you're there a go to emotional support system and they're constantly going, you know what I'm saying? Like River will constantly go to Natalie, right? You know, the twins need Natalie. That's a lot every day for any mom when your kid is it like you're there like you're an extension of them and moms feel that connection with their babies, right? And so when you win for whatever reason don't feel like you can show up for your child, there's an immense amount of like guilt and weight and shame to that that like dads never experience or feel. And like again, most moms out there just talking about their experience of being moms is this trying them trying to celebrate a win. And maybe they don't say it perfectly. I mean, and just I want it like as a dad give my life for flowers. Natalie, we wanted to be parents that the sacrifice any person who want who chooses to want to be a mom, they the way they have to give up their body. You're emotionally, mentally, you know, physically. You have no you have some kind of no agency. You know, I'm saying you don't get to make the choices. You don't you don't make the rules. You're just your only goal is to like keep this thing alive. And you just have to roll with the punches, which already is like this crazy thing. I'm just a man. I just had a front row seat to my wife. So this was this her, you know, my experience of observing her. But like, yeah, there are over the course of nine months. There are so many days that are just, it's it's it's excruciating. You know, it's just it's painful. You know, especially when she was like, you know, at the end of her pregnancy with twins, the fact that we showed up three weeks early, they were born at 37 weeks, who means like, like, technically they were supposed to live inside of Nally for three more weeks. And they came out as like two little humans just beating the fucking shit out of her. You know, inside, you know what I'm saying? It's a lot. It is a lot. And it takes an emotional and mental toll toll. It literally just drains you from the inside. And me, and if you are a parent of another child, like, you're just trying to get through the fucking day. And God forbid, when you want to talk about parenting or share your experience that you don't have some sort of approval committee on social media, making sure you sit at the perfect way in a way that won't in any way be misinterpreted in some way. And the amount of again, non-parents out there, inserting themselves in this conversation, you know, critiquing moms for again, just wanting to talk about it. And again, and then assuming the worst, not giving them a benefit of the doubt, because again, it is scary. And I want it to be able to talk about being a parent in a way that feels safer. Because like, honestly, to be a parent, you need the humor. Like the only way you get through those like nights in the middle of the night where like your twins are screaming and river wakes up. And it's just like you're kind of like, what is going on? There's a lot of moments like that. But you know what? We look at each other and you kind of laugh because they get through parenting. It requires humor. And we've taken the humor about talking about being parents because like everyone's just like, black and white, like you got to do this. And again, it's just like the only people who seem to be attacked are moms. And it will say to the parents out there, something I've learned as a parent. Like there's a lot of people who don't want to be parents, who aren't parents yet. And they don't give a fuck about your needs and challenges. And nor should they. And it's also not mom shaming because someone who's not a mom doesn't empathize with your experience. That's like you don't, you know, you don't know what it's like. It makes sense. But just like shut the fuck up. If like, if you have an opinion about what it's like to be a parent or specifically a mom, and you don't know what it's like to like all the shit that goes on in a mom's life and how it is just like, they're just not, they don't get to be themselves. You know, they don't, like, they have to give up so much to have the, again, and there's so many benefits that come from it. And then when it comes to parenting, the only thing that I like, I love talking about it, the only like message that I want to convey is that if you're interested, is that something you've thought about that, well, yes, there are challenges and there are scary moments that the pros outweigh the cons. That's just been my experience. Can't speak for everyone. But like there is something about like we got this one life. And I don't know what you guys are like, what your purpose in life is. But like life is lonely. And now that we are lucky enough to be parents, we have these three beautiful girls that like we get to be a family for a period of time. And we get to try to like make their lives better. And then and when I have a bad day and I come home and I get to lie in bed with my daughter and I get the look over and she's reading a book, it really doesn't matter what's going on in the world. And that's for me been an incredible thing. And for anyone who's interested, who has heard all the negative and scary things about parenting, I want people who are interested to know that it's been good for me. And if that's something you find helpful, great. And if you don't find it helpful, also great. Like you can definitely see something. Again, it could be not for you. The not for you page is something we need on social media. Not for you. You know what? It's like sorry, their algorithm found it whatever. It's not for you. You don't find it helpful. Great. It wasn't your choice. You win a different direction. Also fine. But like why the fuck are we going after moms for just trying to like talk about and share an experience when again, all most moms are just as great as it can be. It's always a terrifying moment. It's there's always something going on where you're like fuck. It's like magical as young parents. You know, I wasn't that young when I became a dad, but like I've never been a dad before. And like it's amazing how many things it's kind of like you just figured out. But also every day's simultaneously is kind of like they survived another day. You know, it's about that holy shit. We fucking did it. You know, and again, it's just it's it's crazy. So you definitely have a lot of parents out there wondering what it's like, you know, or curious. And it's the comparison. Like moms and parents, specifically moms, should be able to talk about something that's worked for them and celebrate that. And they should be able to even talk about something that didn't work for them and have that not be taken as offense to anyone if that other thing also worked for them. And it's just more like why are we of all the people we could not be going after online? The fucking moms. like why are we, why are we not giving moms a benefit of the doubt? And not that I think we should start shaming dads, but holy shit. Yes. Um, well, thank you for, yeah, thank you for, thank you for sharing. And honestly, thanks shout out Natalie who's killing it and you come into her defense. Like, yeah, it was just terrible. Like over the weekend, just like she posted this video and she spent all day literally like waiting for stuff with the deeds to be like, she's Natalie Joyce added again with the mom shaming. And it's just like, I listen, I don't know stuff with the deeds. I don't know her story. I, I would like to think that, you know, in this world, it's a very easy to not think about what's going on in other people's lives. And, and I would like to think that if she happens to hear us talk about this and, and, and, and to hear about like just how scary of a time that was as a result of her like making that video that she would feel bad. I'd like to think that she didn't think that she was going to create what she created. But it's just more like mom, mom's deserve the benefit of the doubt. I mean, even that time, like it was honestly like really disappointing because there were, like there were prominent creators in reality people who like chose to speak on that. And like, one of them was this like, even thought that like when, when they spoke on it was like suggested that maybe Natalie didn't mean what stuff with the deeds suggested that she meant. But still called her weird for if it's like, wait, you're, you're also working mom. Like why, why are we assuming that she just didn't like was that she wasn't just naturally curious and she just wanted to learn. It's just like, what are we? Why are we going after hearing it back now as well? I didn't know that you guys were pregnant till shortly after that, but to hear how Natalie spoke about it and to hear the context of age of attraction, Natalie getting the opportunity to host a Netflix show is it is truly a dream come true. And I, you know, my experience is not coming from the place of being a mom, but I feel like I'm in my 30s and I'm like, wow, opportunities are happening to me. And my career is taking off, but I'm in a place where I feel like I should be settling down. And that is really challenging for me. And I look around and I'm like, what am I supposed to do? I wish I wish I knew what I'm supposed to do right now. And so having the context of Natalie knowing she's pregnant and she's getting all of these amazing opportunities, her career is popping off and I like just having that context. I think it does paint such a picture of like the genuine curiosity and I'm like, picturing her sitting there only you to know at that point that she's pregnant with twins and she's like, wow, all these amazing things are literally in the exact same position as Whitney where it's like all of these things are happening for me, but like I'm also starting a family and I'm trying to balance everything. It provides so much color to the picture, but even like without that color, I know. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. The idea that like the average mom, if any mom was having a similar conversation in Natalie without being a host of a Netflix show or not knowing what's going on in their life, my point is like, why are we assuming that that particular mom is trying to trash a mother mom, right? As opposed to just actually being curious, like why are we assuming that they're trying to be shady? Like again, like in real life, that's not happening. Moms are just out there supporting each other. Yeah. Like it's honestly a really beautiful thing every time we travel to run into a young family and there's this like a, because again, a lot of people who aren't parents, don't give a fuck. And nor should they, and nor do they care. But when you find someone going through it, just like you're going through it, you're sharing best practices, you're giving moral support, moms like, Natalie and other moms that are always just like encouraging each other, trying, it's like that is real life and in online, we're just like, shitting on moms for just like talking about it because they're not talking about it in the way that you think they should be talking about it. Or you're assuming that they're, you know, it's just fucking crazy. It is. You know, it's not going to go viral or get engaged with if they're too sensitive to, if they make a blanket statement or just take away products. Yeah. And it's tough because these creators who again, like often will like remove context from the video or insert their opinion, like they make these videos and they monitor, like they get paid for. And they made money off that video because it went viral and like, and it's, and at that point, then you're questioning, it's like what, like, well, her intentions actually, was she actually even curious? She just, she saw an angle. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I like to think for, you know, again, it's just, but like, let's just lay off the moms, you know? Yeah. Moms are amazing. Do you want to be a dad someday? I do. Yeah. Sweet. I was thinking while you were talking about it, like I got a new nephew, my brother just had a baby and they're weighing, they're both working parents and they're trying to figure out like the nanny situation if they're both going to be trying to further their careers. And I feel like if they were to be publicly living their lives, there'd be people like bashing them for. Well, that's another thing that I've noticed that's also weird. Is this like the whole, within the parenting community? Help. Yeah. It's like people, like my mom's, people afraid to talk about it. We try to be, like we're pretty open, like we, we definitely have help. We're very fortunate. Even with help, again, parenting is fucking hard, right? And we have our way of doing it, like the NLA, you learn about night nurses and things like that and a lot of people. We've chose not to. That's totally fine. That's just like we, we just, whatever, where psychos, we apparently want to wake up every night, whatever. But like there's so many people out there who don't feel comfortable talking about the type to help they're getting because again, they're afraid of the internet and what people are going to say. That's crazy. And then meanwhile, you have parents who want to be like, no, fuck it. What do you do? How do you do it? I just, like, it's, it's crazy and you, no one's comfortable talking and they're like afraid to admit they have help. That's a damn saying. And it's, it's fucking crazy and parenting and apparently like it's, I don't, it's, it's, well, it's subjective for one instance to the next like one kid might need more, one kid might need less. And like, literally by the time my parents got to me, they had three tries at it. So like they were like super like by the book of my oldest brother and they would, my dad was just like, my dad was like, it'll be eye like, let me know when he started talking. But like I want like as a young dad who's still figuring it out, like I want more content. I want more discourse. I want to see the humor in it. But like I think a lot of people are afraid to really just, hey, look at this, what's going on? Because they know they're going to be online. People are going to like pick it apart, criticize it, make it a whole thing and turn it into this whole like nuanced mom shaming conversation where I don't know what the origins of mom shaming. I'm sure there's a whole like, you know, college course I could take, but I don't think this was it. And if it's like, there's a right way to be a mom like that's the things like, yeah, that's a moment. Anyway. All right. Anyways, moving on from the mom shaming. There's a guy living in a Netflix billboard on sunset, what I saw this. I didn't really what's what's going on, so there's a movie on Netflix called The Last House that they're promoting. And I haven't seen the movie yet, but whoever is doing marketing for Netflix needs a race. They put a man in a billboard on sunset and he has been living in there. He has a whiteboard. So people have been making videos and communicating with him from the street. No one knows. I was like, my main question was, is there air conditioning in there? Is it plumbing? It's a great. Yeah. One degree is outside and he's inside a billboard on sunset. Are people like he hasn't left or are people monitoring the situation to monitor it? Yeah. Like we saw one video that said, maybe he was leaving because they saw somebody in a construction. Outfit. What's the movie about? It's like a sci-fi horror. It's going to be live streamed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There are people streaming it. On the streets. I drove by yesterday or two days ago and it's just a crowd out on the street and he's just right into them communicating. You've got creators that are going up there doing whole bits. I saw one group of creators that ordered him a pizza for the gourdash. Did he eat it? Well, they opened the pizza box and it was a pepperoni pizza and he wrote on it, I'm vegan with a sad face. But Netflix is paying this man to live in this billboard and it is fascinating. That's great marketing. That is really cool. That is really cool marketing. And in the movie, they're stuck inside a house. Okay. Kind of appropriate. How should they market age of attraction with a light book like an age difference couple in a billboard? There you go. There you go. There you go. There you go. They should be like our expert couple. Yeah. That's the concept. Bring them in. Speaking of Netflix shows, I'm Mary Harry, I'm Mary Harry. Let's Mary Harry. Mary Harry is out. It is streaming. It's a I like it. It's a silly fun show. Yeah. Yeah. It's very obviously bachelor-coded. Can I ask a question to somebody who hasn't fully dived into this yet? Do we think he's actually going to marry someone? No. No. There's no shot. I think he might. I think he might. For at first sight, I don't understand like the actual like behind the legal behind the scene logistics. Like so you can have a ceremony and have it not actually be legal and then you can like like a lot of people you married in Mexico that's not seen as legal. You have to get married in a courthouse here. So if you go have a destination waiting out of the country, it's like a whole thing people do. So I don't know. Like I imagine it's some version of that where it's like I guess if it works out you could actually get married, but like we can just have a ceremony. Or they're sick. I hope that's what they do. You know what I mean? I'm like, let's not make anything legal here, but like yeah, do the white dress, put a ring on and and let's see if it works. Give it six months. And then if it you think you're in, then go for the courthouse. I've only seen four episodes now. Oh, I watched the. Yeah. I caught up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I caught up. Maybe you can. Chets. But like, I've been hard on Harry. I was in the past. I called him an emotional terrorist once. Oh my gosh. Nick. Go ahead. So hard. I mean, a little hard, but like, you know, our girl Jess Vestel was in a relationship with him. She had her stories. - We love her. - I'm curious for you, Jimmy. Do you realize the power you have? - No, I'm starting to realize that the magnitude of my influence, but I guess I don't really see it. - And I don't even, but the way I frame that question is like, Harry Jowze is someone, and I would include you in this, but like, Harry will have unlimited chances. Unlimited chances. It will not matter what he does in any of these relationships. He is a beautiful, tall, successful, charismatic, rich, famous man, and it just won't, he will have literally unlimited chances with beautiful women to just figure it out, right? And so there's like, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. Anyways, the show, like, shout out to the, like, the producers of the show, because like, if someone who's been the bachelor, what they never do, they do not cast for the lead. They cast for, not for the lead. It's just like, they're like, hopefully they're like one, you know? But they clearly cast for Harry. Like, hands like I like Bernat. So like, it's like all, Bernat's. But like, if you're going to make someone, you know, either getting gauged or get married and have this pressure of like, you know, from a small selected group of people that he doesn't get the pick, do this. You should be casting for that person. So like, shout out to Netflix for actually seemingly the casting for Harry. - I feel like they. - I feel like, yeah, so that'd be, it's out again, obviously the bachelor. But I feel like that was the point. Why would you do anything other than that? - I feel like they did what the bachelor should have been doing for the last like five years. I feel like bachelor really had its peak and then it plateaued and then kind of downfalled. But I feel like I look at this show and I'm like the cinematography, the casting, the dates, even the compatibility dates. Like, yeah, sure, they're cheesy and whatever. But you're actually getting a little bit of information about the people. - Shout out David Frieda. - Okay. - We can show runner of, let's Mayor Harry, same shoulder room for Age of Attraction, he's the best. So, I like the chat. - I did a really good job. - I like all those. - Yeah. - To give, I don't know. Again, I've only seen like four episodes. But, and maybe Harry starts acting out. But as someone who's called an emotional nurse in the past, I feel like early on he's being a little hard on himself. Because early on he's like, I'm making out with everyone. I gotta stop making out with everyone. Like when you're in that controlled universe and you are presented a bunch of people that at a minimum you're like physically attracted to. And then you are in charge, like as the lead, he's the lead of the show. All the women there are really counting on him to like have the, they're all nervous. He's the famous one, right? And then that creates a lot of pressure on Harry. And like when you don't know what to talk about, you make out. That's his all that happened. - You're sure. - And so like, I feel like, and like the bachelor, like a wholesome show that doesn't lead, you know, tries not to lead for the most part into the raunchy, they still are making out with everyone. And you have Harry being like, I'm making out with too many people. And he's like, he's being hard on himself. In a way, it's just like man, like what else he is supposed to do. - Yeah. - And they're making him, he's living in the house with his women brilliant, by the way. But they have unlimited access to this man in a way that the bachelor in the bachelor world would never have. And that whole world is about competition. So when someone makes out with someone, you know, it becomes like, well, then all the other ladies, the competitors, so to speak, they're the ones who are, they're putting in Harry and situations where how is he? - We can't add you. - Have you gone to the, the L word part yet? Have you ever, he like, he accuses himself of love bombing? - No. - No, he, yeah, there he is. - You're going to spoil it, my loudest voice. - Yeah, can we spoil it? - It's out, yeah. - Okay. - Yeah. - This part is so, I'm curious, you're taking on this. Should we set it up for Nick? - Set it up. - Yeah, set it up. - Okay, so, what is it, Emma? - Juliana. - Juliana. - Juliana, okay. Juliana and Harry, you know, have this connection. He says. - This one's Juliana. - She's, Bernad one. - Is he the one who, like, he gets in the bed with first? - There's her. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. So, there's a strong connection. - She's been crashing out early. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he talks to her a lot about his father and I felt like that. When you open up to somebody, you sort of like, you know, you build that emotional connection. But then, they're in bed and he's like, they're going back and forth, love bombing and he's like, well, you say it first and she's like, no, you say it. And he's like, well, I need you to, I need to hear it from you. And then finally, she says, I love you. And he goes, oh my gosh, like, that's something, whatever. - He's like, no, why would you say that so bad? - And you think, in that moment, you're like, okay, like, he realized he went too far. And then moments later, he says, I love you too. - Yeah, he was like, he was like, she was saying something. He was like, no, no, no, he's like, cause I love you. He was like, oh. - And then he, yeah. - And he had, he had said, like, a couple episodes prior, like, there's something about her that makes me feel toxic. I feel like I was already back to my old ways. Like, I feel myself wanting to love bomber. Like, it comes easy with her, specifically. And then, - Can somebody go in problem? - We have to tell a short of you, lover. He like, they had to figure out who's gonna stay, who's gonna leave. She got the boot. - Yeah, he, I was like, damn. - Literally told her, he loved her, and then kicked her off next episode. I'm curious, like, what did you think about him sending her home? Did you think that that was necessary? Or do you think, okay? - Yeah, I think he fucked up, and the only way to write that wrong is to, like, yo, I fucked up so bad that, like, it's probably best. - But also, I'm guessing he sent her home, because he didn't like her as much as he, like, the other way. - Yeah, I think he knew, yeah, that he wasn't gonna marry her. I would have felt really bad for her, because I'm sure that was probably an emotional rollercoaster, but she was going and telling everything to the-- - No, yeah. She was running her mouth a little bit. - And I was like, what are you doing? I'm like, this is like-- - She was also fabricating the story to a little bit. - Fabricating the story. She was telling it from a totally different perspective, so it was a good choice to send her home, in my opinion. And I will say, kind of, to your point, I think Harry was being a little hard at himself. I think he's-- he has more depth than people think. And then I just-- I finished the last episode that's out right now, and I'm like, what's going on, Harry? I'm like, I think it's exactly what Nick said, the power that he has. He has unlimited chances with women. And if you don't-- not everything, I'm sure, but I really is with Samantha, the final three girl, the final third girl, when the situation about lying comes up, about sex and all that stuff. - He was stuck between a rock and a hard place there, to be fair. - He was-- I'm curious-- - He walked me through it, walked me through it. - Okay, yeah. - So, boom. He does the-- I love you thing, and then-- what was the name, Sammy? - Samantha. - Samantha. - Or Sam. - Sam. - Sam was like, so we heard that you told her you love her, like, is that true or not? - So, actually, it was about him and Amber and the shower with sex. - Oh! - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - They have sex in the shower. - Yeah, yeah. So check it out. - Yeah. Okay, here we go. So check it out. Check it out. Amber and Harry, they-- - Could you imagine if the Vashler or the Vashred had sex in the shower? - They go in the shower, and they actually don't have sex in the shower. They run the water so that you can, like, mess with the audio or whatever, but they have sex in the bathroom. And Sam was-- - How much they should have? - Yeah. - I'm getting the names confused. - They just thought it was Amber. Amber was in the shower. - You heard the sound. - So, yeah. - Harry walked upstairs. - That was it. Harry and Amber doing an asking in the bathroom, Sam walks upstairs, clocks it off, reports back to the guys or the girls, and it became a whole thing, like, Harry, so did I hear what I thought I heard? Like, are my intentions right? And Amber and Harry were, like, made a pact. Amber was, like, this stays between us, this dies here. So Harry was, like, do I break her trust and spill, kiss and sell? So he made one-- - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's the problem with Juggling. - I'm curious. - Relationships. - You know, stop. - What we think is the right thing to do, because I thought in that moment, I felt the same way that Sam would have felt, when I was on the bachelor Clayton was intimate with other women, and it came up, and I respected so much that he was honest about it, because it was really hard to work through, but I was like, I can at least-- - There's no right way. - Yeah. - Like, if she's like, yo, please don't tell anyone, they're all gonna, like, come for me. And that moment you had in your hands was version of being honest with the group, is them, like, potentially, like, let's be honest, making her feel like slut-shamed, but, you know, or creating the opportunity for other people to slut-shame her. Or does he lie to other, like, what, there's no end, there's absolutely no end. Now, the context of this, though, that is really interesting for me, is that, and I think it's really important, like, with my history from the bachelor and all that stuff, the biggest regret, I think, for myself and from Clayton, and maybe from Harry as well, is that you then expose it to the world, and it, that it is an intimate thing, and it should be a personal thing, and that is where you run the risk. Episodes later, Harry comes out and tells the world that he had sex with Amber. So I'm like, you weren't keeping it a secret secret. You were just keeping it a secret from one girl on the show that made it to your final three that was-- - Well, that was almost certainly a producer driven. - You think so? - Yeah. - For what, to not tell the other girl? - Well, I don't know. I remember on my season of the bat, they casted a woman I met at a wedding, Jaden Tanner's friend. - Okay. - That's f--k. - I know. Dirty. Dirty. And I was like, listen, because I had heard rubblings of something going on, and I called the producers, like, I just want to make it clear. Like, I have no regrets in my doing life. I've met a lot of great people, but, like, I'm not interested in marrying anyone in my past. - Why her? And they knew that we hooked up at the wedding. And the story was, I remember when it happened, I was like, "Oh, why don't you give me your number?" And she's like, "Let's just not." And I remember being like, "Cool." But I asked, and the producers knew I asked because they had talked to her. So in their mind, you have an out because you asked. And I was so pissed because I was like, I don't wanna talk about, I knew they were gonna make, but they made me tell the whole group, made. I mean, again, it was my choice, but there was a lot of pressure to announce to the cast that we had hooked up at a wedding because she started telling, it was a whole thing. It was like, again, it wasn't her fault, it was my fault, but I think the producers encouraged him to say it. - To say it, which that could be. But I think then it kind of takes away from him not talking to Sam, which leads to the point that you were saying earlier where he has this unlimited ability, and I feel like people feel disposable to him. That's what I'm seeing at the end of this, where Sam, Sam has a complex with this. And she's like, I would be able to work with this if he told the truth, but I feel like he's lying. - Well, that's the thing right about Harry. It's like, he's clearly someone who's been open about his past and childhood traumas and sounds like he's had a lot going on. And it sounds like rightfully he's got some things to work through, right? And so we're all in perfect people. And when we date, we're not finished products, we figure it out. But like at some point, the challenge is it's him to recognize how much he has going for him, which is like these unlimited chances. And like, well, it's good to recognize, and it's good to apologize. The only way to not get yourself in these no-win situations is to try to make the difficult and right decision before the thing happens. So that you're not messing with people's emotions. I'm curious for someone like you, you're a young man. I'm assuring you're aware of the discourse online about men, right? And how do you interpret that as someone like yourself, who again, you have a little bit of a gentler, you're tall, athletic, charming. You might not be everyone's type, but there's enough of people who out in the world will be like, I don't care what Jimmy did. (laughing) I want a shot, you know what I'm saying? You will have unlimited chances. So I guess like, I'm sure as a young man, it can feel like the internet never gives you the men the benefit of the doubt, but I'm curious as a young man yourself, like what responsibility do you feel like you have when you're out there in the dating world, knowing that like you have unlimited chances? - Yeah, I've been asked very recently, like I found myself almost overexplaining, like being too sensitive to somebody's emotions or feelings when they were like, this ain't even that deep bro, like, my bad, I was trying to be like proactive here and let you know that like this may not go a certain direction. She was like, broad and never, like we just started talking like, relax. So like maybe that has trickled into my, I don't know, behavior I guess with the way I go about getting to know women and figuring out like, if this is something worth exploring or not. - But I feel like that's, it's better to be more cautious. - Out rather consider it rather than just like go somebody over here and then finding out someone's upset and then assuming that we were on the same page when we weren't, yeah. - I would, yeah, I would agree. It's better to be proactively transparent and maybe come across as cringy a little bit. - Who cares? 'Cause the right person's gonna appreciate that and when you do find that person, they're gonna value that so much. Whereas somebody, yeah, it's casual, they were like, dude, it's all good. - But I guess at this stage of Harry doing this show, like we know who Harry is to a certain extent, right? And I think he's leaning into his character. - That's what I mean. - So it's like, we've already criticized the behavior. I mean, at this point, it's like he's making good TV. - That's why I think this show, as much as I like, I'm like, bro, what do we, what do we talk about? There's no way he's ready for marriage. I almost think it's like perfect. If it's intentionally satirical, like he's playing it to the bit. - It's how it is in a fuck boy. - Yeah. - There's no way, literally the most recent episode the last episode, he's like, I'm the love with two women. Who am I gonna marry? Like, there's your answer, you're not gonna, like, if you're still in love with two women, - Yeah, you shouldn't marry anybody. - That's why I think that's the big, it's why it's crazy to try to convince the gas light, the world that you could be deeply in love with two people at the same time. - Like fuck, no, especially bro. Like, there's no way he's actually gonna get married, stay married if he's like actually, I mean, maybe what do I know? Maybe I have a traditional view on how marriage is supposed to work. Maybe I'm, they're pulling me and I don't, I don't know what I'm talking about. - I think I'm gonna see him. - This Wednesday mindset. - Wednesday, the finale, you find out. - And when is that? - August 12th, Wednesday, yeah. - I also will say, like him having to navigate all this, like amidst, like the, or on the cusp, I feel like his father passing. Like, I almost feel like this probably not the right time, either, like, I don't know, that's super heavy. - Well reality TV certainly leans into, our trauma. - Yeah, true. I guess that may make for better TV, which feels dystopian, but. - It humanizes people, you know, you know, like. - I also think the final two women are really, really strong in their own ways, totally different vibes, it's Amber, and then, what is that? - Danelle, Danelle. - Danelle. - Amber, oh bro. - Bailey, give me a, yes. - So I think, I think that neither one of them is gonna put up with any BS from Harry. - I was set the girl from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, at home, early. - She's had. - Oh yeah, so he was into her, she's one of the final. - Yeah, he gave her the first ring. - Not surprising that he is into older women. - Really, why is that? - I resonate. - Because I think he's, I mean, what Harry's always been vulnerable is to like being, I mean, being a little emotionally immature. He's at least owned that. And I think he's had his struggles. And I think he thinks an older, more mature person will help him and hold him accountable. - Mama C, too. - In a way that like, I think he has to be willing and acknowledge that no one's gonna change him. No one has the, he just has to come from him. But I think it's easier. Like when you pick a partner, you want someone who help, you know, like. - Yeah. - You know, I was joking with Natalie over the weekend. It's just like, we make us such a good team because like, I'm sitting here on the weekend thinking about humanity, you know, thinking about like, what are the type of men are gonna be available for, you know, if they date men, you know, and Natalie is making sure we get through tomorrow. You know, we're making sure like, like we, we're going to the, like she's setting the appointments. You know, she's just making sure we survive tomorrow. While I'm thinking about like, how do we get to the world? You know, and yeah, you want someone who balances you out, you know, and I think sometimes in that vein, we find people that don't necessarily balance out, but allow us to like, hopefully fix us in a way that we haven't been able to fix ourselves. - I guess yeah, okay. - But that's just a theory, I don't know why I know. - I have a question just about the show in general. Would you guys all trust your friends and ex to choose your spouse for you? - That's what I was, that's gonna be my confidence for this show. - No, I don't want anyone's opinion. - No bodies? I mean, not really. - I would definitely have my mom in my home. - That's the same. - I mean, I guess, I don't know. As you get older, are you? - But it's one of those like, they know me better than on myself sometimes. - Sometimes you just gotta shoot your shot, take a risk. - I mean, like the two people, like outside of my parents, who obviously, like, they're opinion matters to me, people, they marry Natalie and I. And so there are two people who like, I really trust their opinion, you know? Like, I admire them both as people, you know, they'll shoot me straight. And when I was like, fuck, should I do this? Should I date Natalie? I was like, I call them up and they loved her. Like, they met Natalie, like the first week and I met Natalie and they were obsessed with her. They thought she was amazing and they were like, no. They're like, it's not gonna work, you know, because of-- - The age difference. - The age difference. - Wow. - And I really took their advice to heart and then I said, fuck it. I'm doing it anyway, you know? And it's like, so, I don't know, you know, at some point, you just gotta shoot your shot. - I feel like, I mean, I think that's healthy though, like, have somebody had a kind of-- - No, it really gets good to like, you know, like, I think, I think it's good to have your friends and family around who maybe have seen you date to maybe point out some of the themes that they notice, repeat themselves. And if they notice a similar theme to maybe, that's helpful for sure. But in terms of like, who do you, like, match make, I think that's different than matchmaking. - Sorry, I'm not the pivot, but the mayor of the first side matchmaking got me kind of fucked up. - Well, they're experts. I actually-- - She, yeah. - I disagree. I've learned a lot from them, but some of the pairings I wholeheartedly disagree with. - Sure, but I think that's like a casting thing. - Well, it falls on the matchmakers. - In the eyes of the public, you know, like-- - Yeah, yeah. - But like, they're working with what they got. - Yeah. - But I also like, I agree with the matchmakers in the sense that I'm like, you can only, you can only go through so many variables, right? But I'm like, even what we're seeing in, married at first side right now where they're talking about, we don't know how each other argue and the only couple that argued from the get-go. Now everyone's kind of like, shit, did they do things right? 'Cause I don't know your style and things like that. But I'm like, that's also something you can't really gauge, you know what I mean when you're matchmaking. - Yeah, that's true. - It's like, okay, compatibility, financials, what are your interested in hobbies, et cetera. But then I'm like, yeah, when it comes down to like real personal things, it's like, do you know someone's background? Did they lose a parent young? Did they, are they adopted? Are they whatever? Like, you're, there's only so many things. - Sean and Nikki Liger is Sean just a freak. Like, he horny as far. - Because those are also matchmaking. - That was a wild scene. - Matchmaking, why it always be an imperfect science because at the end of the day what makes a relationship work isn't. Like what's on paper. Yeah, it's not a list of qualities. It is a willingness to figure it out or not It either like hey, we're gonna figure this out and you need two people to be like let's figure it out Yeah, or you don't and I think the expert what they are is the relationship experts are actually psychologists who understand the nuances And the best practices of relationships So that I guess that's a kind of what I mean because like the map. It's like I don't you know like I have learned a lot from them I will say like the whole like the butterflies fading and plateauing and then it's about okay at this point now You got to become curious. I was like oh I got a bank that one. I well like now I went for we went for coffee, you know Which is like as a parent here just like oh wait we left the house, you know It's like really important for me to get down my favorite day Which oh and then another thing if you're if you're up, you know what the sign of a single man is He's a coffee shop fuck. I got a circle when I guess We went and got The happy way Well, we went to the we went to the coffee shop and there was a guy I didn't even see his face But we was wearing a t-shirt that now they pointed out because it was like bluts wet in tears It was like and it was like okay single Third space go take it in my single era. It was just like I don't get it out of the house You know like I just I'll sit at the coffee shop and hoping me to cute girl like like five hours at the gym literally like you know I If a guy is by himself at a coffee shop. He is he's honestly he's he's hoping to meet a girl I mean most I will say I was still going I still need my long time at the coffee shop I don't know I like to create there, but nope, okay, most people I would agree though. I'm getting a little defensive here It wasn't a call out. It was this more like hey in case you're curious. That's where you can find them Oh, yeah, anyway, we were getting coffee and I was like I was like what's one thing you miss the most about your independent life Like not necessarily when you're single, you know, but like just you know cuz what now going to coffee is Date night. It's a process. It's like is everyone okay? Can we sneak out for 45 minutes? But just like yeah, just you know trying to like and that was like I was being intentional with my question and trying to like connect with my wife And just you know just I was as curious what if anything she missed the most, but anyways, yeah I'm curious and I got that note from these experts Look at that. So there's a lot to learn from reality TV. There is there is I don't care where nobody's say Yeah, there is a lot of good takeaways. Yeah, I agree. I like just to watch people behave in Interesting settings that I would never put myself into but then also be like huh That's the way that like somebody that thinks completely opposite of me how they move and I'm just like Why would they do that? It's like psychology 101 why are people the way that they are and like what are they looking for? Mm-hmm, and most of it. It's all they're just looking for a connection to be understood and Just to feel wanted. I'm realizing people do have these walls up But they desperately want them to be knocked down. Yes, they want those Something happened at Merritt at first sight that reminded me of why I'm very reluctant to like lean on my friends and family when it comes to like Relationship advice. I think it was one of the women talking about their male partners And and she was voicing concerns about something and the family and friends go well. He's never dated someone like you What does that have to do with how this man moves and what he brings in the relationship and yes It's natural for want your friends and family to guess you up But that mentality of he's never dated someone like you is there for that's that's why this person is going to change is like the worst advice Oh, anyone could advise bad advice, because like it gives you this it's like it tells you that Yeah, it's like no this guy's bringing what was it? And about Felipe but one of her friends was very like no, no, no I don't like this and all the other friends were like, but it's gonna be okay And I agreed with the one friend who was like yeah But you want to believe when you hear that be like you know, and I am you know because like you know It's so you know, yes, you're enough, but you're not enough to change someone right no one is enough to Mm-hmm. I'm with you to cuz I'm like it's like I I I as much as I love the bouncing off ideas of friends and everything It's just like unless you know this person and this person in the inner workings of then we just feed each other Delusion it's the he's just not that into it's like oh my god He didn't call you because yeah, maybe his grandma died or like maybe got a car accident Like you know what I mean? It's just like maybe he just doesn't like you that I'm just like we're sitting here And we saw the actual evidence of that because all the friends are blowing her up with this like well You're different and like I don't like that He cheated and that he said that but and then we sit there at the dinner where he's just like I don't think I can do this in commitment and all this up And it's like he's been saying it from the jump. Yeah, and yet we're all just trying to like make it seem like oh He could change he really went a part of this Experiment but in actuality he's literally been saying it from the get go. I'm scared of commitment I don't know that I can do this Is one of the most bullshit lines out there you're not afraid of commitment You're afraid of probably a lot of things. He said it clear his day I like sleeping with random women. Yeah, I don't think that's a pretty Committed to go on so he committed to going unmarried it for said it's not a commitment issue He's probably he committed to being a restaurant. He can commit to things. Yeah, what he doesn't want to do is make sacrifices You know, he doesn't want like You know, I'm curious like I don't know that though. I just don't I don't understand that mentality is like yes as a guy guys like sex and in your single era good stuff You know, if you're lucky enough to if you participate in hookup culture, it can be fun but I've never related to the idea that like Just sleeping with more people is somehow like this nest like if you're lucky enough to participate in hookup culture And you have some success after a while. It's just like it's just it's just The sex is sex and you're just like and then you for in my experience has been like then that has made me long For wanting more from that experience where like I want to feel something afterwards. I want to care I want to not feel awkward in like wondering if like you have something going on after this or do I have something? It's like like I you get sick of that and I'm just shocked that someone like Felipe It's like All you're thinking about is like you want you're not thinking about you're not thinking about who the women are You're just thinking about the numbers the numbers of how many people like I don't I do not appeal to that and I'm curious as a young Man yourself What where where do you land? It's a very fleeting. I Yeah, I feel like you kind of some people are in that phase that like hookup culture phase longer than others and Yeah, I find it very fleeting. I find it very like empty And I tried to distance myself from it as much as possible But then you know then you can deprive yourself of like getting to know people and stuff But yeah, it's definitely it's you know subjective from person to person how they want to treat their relations But I find myself like so not With that shit no more like when I was like first got a little like attention on the internet and stuff and I was like at Ohio State still like yeah, I was outside for sure and like you know I'm back outside, but it's not it's not the same it don't it's not like the after a while board and Where do they live again? Where's the casting Seattle Seattle? That's interesting because I maybe it's like something from His family. I know that something I've noticed there's a lot of guys and in girls There's this pressure to get married 20 29 30 and it's like okay It's like time to settle down and have kids and I get that if that's what you want at that point in your life Absolutely and like I I want that but I think there's this pressure at a certain age where you're like okay Now I'm supposed to change but if you're not ready like don't don't sign up for married at first sight don't Convince someone to fall in love with you if you're not ready to take care of what that actually means And I wonder if it's just like him because some of the things he said has made me feel like Oh, I think you just think that you turned 28 and now you have to get married But like we don't live in that time frame anymore if you want to keep fucking around keep doing it and it's literally fine Just don't Invest have so many invest in you. There's also like low-key like pressure from like the like boys and like men is like All your single again, but we got to go to Vegas like shit like that like that kind of culture And I wonder if like what his what he comes from, you know, like that's like he's like like Program by that, you know so to speak. Yeah more male dominated Well, he's self-sabotage is a lot, but I'm just kind of like it's interesting that you He said oh I can skip the whole having to do the whole experience of getting married and tried to like maintain Interest now that I have that label already now. I can just solely focus on you But yet it kind of feels like as soon as they started sleeping together. That's when he started losing interest and then can Blatantly say how he feels versus like Here's a little warning sign like, you know, I really want to be in this with you But I'm scared of commitment and then as soon as like Something maybe wasn't the way that he wanted it to be or expected it to be that it was like listen I like sleeping with people and I don't know if I can stop doing that for you and that's just you know I mean just like a wild transition It does come from the hospitality industry, right like they they like to fuck yeah they get active there. Yeah It's a dark world like a sex cult I had to get out guys. It was crazy the conversation that Sean have you ever had Have you ever asked a girlfriend if she'd be willing to like mute like like you feel masturbation? Yes, sure. Sean is freaky But just to say those words out loud. I would I would have been like so do you but but he also framed it Like this is your wife's duty. Yeah, he said it's part of showing up as a part of showing up. That's crazy Yeah, and then he tried to walk you back in their account. I'm like bro. You you're I wanted to ask about you I got a book out what he had a book he dropped a book about what what's this lady? No I promise, I promise, I promise he dropped a book around like his version of dating and what he's learned. I'm like, bro, this is as bad. I mean, as short of saying that if you get married, it is, I guess, each partner has a responsibility to make your other partner feel physically desired. There's no like specific, not like duty. There's no like, it's not like blow jobs are part of the marriage contract. Like some people are into it. Some people aren't like everyone has preferences unless you get that in the prenup, you know, leave it out of here. Right? I don't like it. There's no there's no rub and tug that's part of here like like your white, huh? That's why I blame the the pairing like bro, y'all set hurt up with this freak is what woman would want to hear that. I mean, sure, yeah, like no, no, no matchmakers be like, so we at we talked to Sean. He loves a tug now and then he down. He loves a mutual masturbation. Huh? That's not part of the matchmaking process. That's right. It's the fact that they're not sleeping together already. So like that to me is where I'm like, where do you get the audacity to start asking for specifics and something that I feel like is even more intimate than just penetration that I'm just like you're sitting here being like, hey, can we do this? If she's not willing to sleep with you and be naked with you, what makes you think that that's going to be the first step? I'm all for like exploring the like, all right, so like what other things in the bedroom? Are you like, do you like? Like keep it open ended. That's a conversation over dinner. That's a conversation in like a setting, not like you coming out in a towel after a shower while I'm cleaning the kitchen. I was just thinking about my dick. I'm watching it. I'm curious. How do you feel about touching it? You also can't like rap is head around her not being attracted to him. It doesn't make sense to him. It's like come on, bro. I'm really curious. I know you next tries to stay away from like labeling things. So let's not label if we don't have to. But I am curious was what happened a form of gaslighting or was it that he genuinely did not believe that he said those words? Because I feel like on reality TV, when he said, he said part of showing his way of life. And she kind of interpreted them as white duty, but he can't do things be true. Well, I don't. I don't think like arguing semantics is gaslighting. I think that's just two people misunderstanding. But I feel like he was kind of clear. And then he was like, I feel like it was kind of, did you guys not? I don't feel like he meant to or maybe I would call that arguing and having in miscommunication. Like, you know, like couples say things and then you argue semantics and you're like, well, I didn't mean it like that. And you know, it's like gaslight. I mean, that's like, he was like verbatim. Like, I did not say that. Yeah. How many times have you been in our argument with a partner? Probably gaslighter. You're arguing for toilet. That's it. Yeah, that's the reason it happens. In 2026 versions of what gaslighting means. I guess, but that wasn't that wasn't the origins of like, but it was. I guess we would have to know if he actually believed it or not to know if it was gaslighting. Yeah, if he was like, intense, like, I'm going to lie to her too. But like, to be clear, we have, we have an invite where you're like, I didn't fucking say that. And then it's like, you rolled the fucking girl. Yeah, you did. Yeah, it happened. Yeah, that's. I kind of feel like my question about that situation too. And like, I can throw this to you, Jimmy, as well. I think where I'm like, do you think that there's also a part where, because he made a point to say, like, how you're painting me and how people are going to perceive this? That I'm like, do you think is especially like filming like perfect match or something? Are there moments like, are you hyper aware of the fact that you're on camera 24/7 or are there like moments where you kind of lose yourself or you're just like, well, I've been in this environment, but I'm not thinking about being filmed or how an audience is going to perceive me. And maybe there's other situations where in the middle of a conversation and you're like, fuck, if this gets put out there, this is what this is going to look like. So I'm going to alter what I would actually say. Depends on like the severity of the conversation. Like if you're just like taking out a cabana, like just shooting the shit, I feel like you kind of lose yourself in that. But like when emotions and tensions are there, you're like, alright, let me not fuck up. Yeah, it's a little bit of both. You're like, you kind of forget. But then you become aware and you're like, wait, it's yeah, it's because what I think I and correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like what I noticed from that scene was that it kind of seemed like that was surveillance in the sense of like the cameras that are in the apartment. We're like, I think it's easier to have just a genuine conversation. And obviously having a physical body camera man in front of you that I'm like, once that camera man's in front of them doing the romantic, whatever, then he's like, oh, I'm hyper aware that I'm on television. I never said that. But I'm like, that's what I'm thinking. Is that like maybe he doesn't, he didn't think that what he was saying was better. It came off in a certain way because it was just a little bit of both. I think he seems to be someone who like thinks he's really smart. He probably is really smart. He's in the shower watching his body. And he's like, you know what? This will be a fun and interesting question to bring up on TV. You know, and then he said the thing, it didn't land. It didn't come out the way. Maybe he even meant to come across. She took it a certain way. She made the, I guess, the accusation. And then that he was like, I understand him. So, but his intention may not have been to suggest that like, you're my sexual servant in a marriage, but like, I guess it's just how it came across. And then in that moment, he probably became hyper aware that he was on TV. Yeah, it's like snap. Oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah, it was probably that. What about Caitlin and Devon? I find it so bad for Devon. I feel really bad for him. And I do, part of me, it feels bad for Caitlin just because I'm just like, yeah, it sucks constantly to feel like you're doing something or you feel like you're doing enough and it's never enough. Yeah. However, even just that barbecue with the friends on the rooftop. And it was just like, even when he took a picture of her and she's like, oh, that's a cute photo of us of me. I just like kept walking. It's like, you don't want to take photos with him. You don't want to make him feel super special when you're talking to the friends. It's like, he's such a great nice guy, but it's like there's nothing about the we, the us, the being excitement about him. He seems like a type of guy. He's a big guy. He he looks rough around the edges. He looks like a bro. Yeah. That hair was a choice. That hair is a choice. And and it's in it. He seems a guy who's like probably made his mistakes in relationships. He's probably showed up as a bro. And yet it seems like she's leaning into this caricature of how he comes across. And he genuinely seems like a guy who is like wanting to be a good part. A good and like a better man or just like a, you know, and and she seems to only be hyper focused on his mistakes. I know. Rather than like ways in which he's trying his best. And even you can try your best in a relationship and still get it wrong. And that's, you know, like that's where the grace comes in. The conversation he had with Courtney about her next relationship. I think that was overbearing. Obviously he was drinking, but I also think that was projection of his own relationship. But like a big thing for me was them getting home that night where obviously he was intoxicated. And when he started standing in front of the door, I was like, I got nervous because I was like, oh no, you're already big. Yeah, you can't do that to like a small woman. But I was like the way that he like backed down and just kept trying to be like, I understand you. I see like for me, like that's where I was like, even if he's three sheets to the wind, whatever, I was like, at least he's conscious enough to be like, okay, I need to step back. Okay. Like I just want you to know that like I'm not trying to fight with you. I do want to have a conversation. She's not willing to have the conversation right now. Respect that, which he did. But I was just like that could have been that to me is like shows more of the inner of who he is versus like, oh, the trying to mask things and be comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. So I'm over drinking and trying to give love advice and hopes that you'll respect me or that I'll get some sort of affection back. I was like, I think all of that was just very human of him. But I was like the fact that he didn't do anything that actually was aggressive or trying to force his point. I was like, I do feel bad for him because I think he just is a teddy bear that wants to be loved. I mean like Courtney, I mean perfect for this show, but like so like the last type of personality who should be signing up for marriage at first sight. Yeah. She's like, she's just so high strung. And so like you, you have to have a level of like, oh, let's just see how it goes. Yeah. Both like in marriage and in relationships, but also like especially when someone's going to be like, we're going to pick your way for you. And she's just like very type A, like very inflexible with how she feels in any situation. And she is spiraling. Yeah. And I don't think compatibility, you don't tell somebody what you want them to be. And then they perform, you know what I mean? Where she's like, I want silly and goofy and all that stuff. Where it's like usually that's based off of the compatibility and chemistry between two people that I can pull that out of you and you pull that out of me. Yeah. So maybe even to Jimmy's point where I was like, maybe that might have been the couple that like I would have been like maybe not the strongest match just because it's like he's super aware of himself being on reality TV and self editing and trying to say the right thing. Yeah, but I don't know, but because like like I think if anyone knows me, my baseline isn't silly goofy guy. You know, like my baseline is just like, I like to get deep. And you know, they're, I'll joke with now, be like, you indulge me for 10 minutes. I got, I've no one else to share this with. I know you don't give a fuck. You know, like. Yeah. And now his baseline is goofy and silly and fun and like doesn't, you know, but we have figured out how to balance each other out. I've become aware she's not always going to be interested in some of these things. And it's not like, oh, we're not compatible. And like, oh my god, like whatever. And like sometimes she does indulge me. And then, you know, like it's, it's, it's understanding who your partner is and then going out of your way to like meet in the middle. They don't have to be a perfect you know, like I'm this way. And I found the perfect perfect person to deat like that. You don't find someone who's willing to deal with your shit without like you willing to like again, be flexible meeting them. It's a, it's a balancing act, right? So like I think when it It comes to compatibility, but to me, it's always like, it is so easy for us to make decisions, like little decisions, what we eat for dinner, what we watch, well, like how we like to spend our free time. Despite our age difference, when I met Natalie, she was at a part of life having lived a very different childhood than I lived and had very different, you know, like she grew up much faster than I grew up. And when we met, she was like, I wanna be a mom, like I'm, you know, whether it's gonna be you or not, like I wanna be a young, you know, and I was like, well, I'm been dying to be a dad. So like we were lucky enough to like, being that same season of life. We were compatible with like what we wanted for ourselves and we were compatible with like the big picture. We, there's a lot of ways and we are so different where it's just like, she doesn't give a fuck, you know, and vice versa, but like we don't focus on, you know what I'm saying? So like I don't necessarily think compatibility is being, is going through a checklist of all like, individual preferences and everything you like. - Can I ask a question about y'all? 'Cause I've learned a lot through these shows that like a lot of what the experts and the people say is like the healthy foundation is that like, your friends first before you introduce like, the romance and intimacy were y'all? - No. - Y'all weren't? - No, I mean like-- - We're into my right away. - Yeah, and then that's what-- - And then we had a situation ship and then again, because like, which I think this is something that a lot of couples face with like hookup culture. It's like hookup culture has basically taken so much responsibility out of dateers to like make a commitment. Like I've only known intimacy first, honestly. - Like you and Allison were like, well we're not, you know like you, you didn't want to talk about boundaries and that gives and like that gave me and Natalie a permission structure early in our relationship to like have an incredibly casual relationship and that casualness like created a lot of issues for us quite frankly, you know, like and so no, that that wasn't our experience. Once we started dating quite frankly, yeah, there was a lot of like learning how it was becoming friends. Now, like we're best friends and she's like my person who like I, she's my North Star for everything. When I have it, when I have a question, that's what I've known how. - Going to her, but like at first we had to learn how to do that, you know, it was something you prioritize. - Yeah, I think you have to prioritize it. I don't think it has to start that way, but I do think it has to be a part of your foundation. But I think the problem with dating now is that like look up cult are so prominent that there are so many loopholes when it comes to people earlier dating of reasons why they don't have to commit reasons why they don't have to prioritize the reasons why they don't have to put labels on it. And then that kind of gives you the freedom to be like, well, I mean, like we're not boyfriend and girlfriend and I know we're just dating. But like so I was talking to this, you know, like, and that can create a lot of issues for people who have a shot. - Like beauty, yeah. That's why I find myself overexplaining, like, almost giving too much context. - Yeah, but that's because it's two people being like, you know what, we don't need to talk about it. We don't need to put a label on it. We don't need to like hold ourselves, you know, and like we fell into that trap row in our relationship for sure. - I mean, I think friendship is like the most important component of a relationship, but- - For longevity. - Exactly, to your point though, where I'm like, I see what you're saying, like kind of like with like the Nikki and Sean Roots, like, oh, we have to be friends first and fall into it. And I'm like, I don't think that's realistic, but also kind of like, okay, if we've been friends for two years and all of a sudden, you have romantic feelings and start like, it's gonna change the complete dynamic of our relationship. I think normal people do meet, and it's that comfortability with each other, that wanting to learn each other, that wanting to spend time together and learn about your background, where you came from, why you think the way you think, that's what builds the friendship, you know what I mean. So I do think it is the most important component, but I don't think that's something that you just instantly have when you meet someone. - I think having a friendship and a relationship is the foundation for respect. Because it's easy to meet someone that you're sexually attracted to and hook up. And, but like, you know, obviously, you wanna respect people as humans and things like that. But like, in a relationship, kind of like with Harry, right? Like, what he doesn't do in his relationship is think about how his actions are gonna affect something before he makes the action. He is willing to, at this point in his life, recognize the action and apologize for the action. But like, you have to have that respect. And with friends, if you have a deep friendship outside of a romantic relationship, you are aware of how your friends are sensitive, how things affect them. And when you learn about them and you learn about who they are as people, you are careful about how you move around your friend because like, you know, you respect them and you wanna make sure you're not triggering them or upsetting them or doing things. And like, you are making a sacrifice as a friend to like move as a friendship, not as an individual. - Yeah. - And I think that's why having that friendship foundation in a relationship is so important because I think that builds the respect every relationship needs to like, again, be mindful of how your actions are going to affect your partner before you actually do the action not just after you make the mistake and then apologize for it. - I hear that. - Well, fun, fun conversation. Jimmy, always a pleasure to have you. - Exactly, man. It's always fun. - Up next, we have the Queen, Shannon Bedore, catching up with me, Sierra and Mary. And she is always a light talking about what we can expect of the season 20 of Housewives. Obviously, she reflects on her time as a housewife, being a housewife for 12 years. They right now, the Broadway universe is celebrating 20 amazing years of Housewives. And we get the perspective of one of the queens herself and she is up next. Shannon, welcome back. - Thank you for having me, Miss Files. - Here, you're a breath of fresh air. - No, it's fine. - I was telling you, you make me enjoy covering Housewives and Broadway. - Wow, that is quite a statement. - Well, you're just, you're always positive energy, you know? - Times, at times. - Yeah, but-- - And when you're not, you're not doing business. - You're a human being, you know? So you're allowed to have your ups and downs, but you always come in bright and fun. You make us laugh. - Good. - I said this earlier, but I just want to like, express my condolences for Archie. - Oh, thank you. - And that's obviously was a difficult time for you. - It was, 'cause it happened so quickly, but you know, it's interesting the show, brought in a dog psychic and at last season. And Archie said that he wanted a brother that looked just like him. And so I rescued a golden Troy for fight on USC Trojans. And Archie just really didn't like Troy. I kept thinking, what? This, why? - You wanted this, Archie. - Yeah, he just was annoyed all the time. And now I think it's because he knew he was sick. Because I wouldn't have run out and got another dog, but I'm grateful that I have Troy right now, super sweet. - But maybe like Archie lives in Troy. I say he's a butterfly now and so he comes to visit all the time. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Well, it's good to see you doing so well. - Thank you. - Also just congratulations on just, you know, what Bravo is celebrating 20 years of housewise. - I know. - And you're obviously a big part of this moment. - Well, I'm 12th, that's the 20th. - That's a big deal. - I am, it is exciting. - But yeah, is it, is it, how are you feeling about it? Does it feel cool to be a part of this moment and have this, you know, franchise be celebrated the way it is? - I think about just the evolution of reality television in the last 20 years. And to be a part of that kind of pop culture has been incredible. And I started late season nine. So who, you know, I thought, oh, I'm coming in late. - That's what I thought about podcasting. - Once you make your mark, you know, you're there. It's solidified. - Well, like you said, you've been a housewife for 12 years. I'm just curious from your perspective, what do you think it means to be a housewife and how has that changed slash evolved over the 12 years in which you've been a housewife? - Well, I mean, I always say, and, you know, people, there's people out there that say, I'm the most horrible person, I'm not authentic. - Same. - I think that you need to be authentic. When you're honest and you tell the truth, you know, there's not much you gotta keep track of, you know? So I think that that is what are the things that keeps people around a little bit longer. But I think of where I was, you know, 12 years ago to now, and I've had a lot of ups and a lot of downs. - Speaking of ups and downs, I'm curious as you reflect back on all 12 years. Are there any specific moments or moments that you both, like regret happening that you wish, maybe you wish you didn't do or say and then subsequently, are there moments where you're like, I did that shit, you know? Or maybe it was a moment that felt negative at the time, but like everything that happened past that, you feel like grateful. - Right, I mean, I take accountability. Anything I do, I make mistakes daily. So I will take responsibility for that. But I will say that in the end, you know, my DUI, are you kidding me? I look at all these things that I've done that are humiliating, embarrassing, especially for my kids. And, but then I think, where would I be today? Had I not gone through that experience? And I know that the DUI, I thought that was it for me. And it really has changed me. I feel that today, I'm in the best place that I could ever be. The girl that always had to be in a relationship isn't super excited about necessarily being in one. There are some options out there for me right now. But I just, I don't know that I'm gonna go there. There's a roster, but you don't need that. - Well, I'd like to say a bench. - Okay. (laughing) - So you really, when that DUI happened, you thought that was it? - Oh, no, I mean. - And when you say that, do you think, is it both professionally and just like, personally, like all of the above, so to speak? - All of it, all of it. You know, I, I'm a pretty strict mother. And for my, something like that to happen when you're almost 60. new. For your kids, it's like I've lost respect of everything. everybody. Well, I'm, you know, as you know, I'm a relatively new dad, young father of three girls. I'm here. You know, what can I learn from you in terms? I know doubt will make mistakes. And as, you know, I'm a, as of this moment, a public figure. And my children will become aware of things about me that I don't choose to share and things like that that are outside of my control. What have you learned about parenting and when that happens to me, what advice do you have for me to like, what conversation, how did you address it with your daughter so that it didn't become something that created more distance between you and your family and yet sounds like it maybe ultimately brought you guys closer together? Absolutely. I think that when, especially when you make mistakes it humanizes you and your kids see that you're, you aren't just a public figure. You're a normal person that can flood up all the time. I will tell you though, as a parent, a couple of things I did, from as soon as they could understand my words, what happens if you do drugs? You die. It may be the first time or the hundredth time, but you will die. Then I would put the gas on. You're with a boy and he's taking you for ice cream, he's driving this fast. What do you do when they go pull over? And yes, that's what you do. I just give him little tests from when they're little. Okay. So, you know, so they're ready to go, then you're not like the mom hounding or the parent hounding on them when they get older. What's the best lesson or bit of advice you've received from your children? I was, it was my second season. I was back. Dave and I were still not getting along. We're trying to get our marriage back together after I found out about an affair. We're in Napa Valley, Megan King Edmund starts coming after me and I'm like, this is, I'm out. Like, this is just too much for me. And I said, I need an Uber home. I'm not filming anymore. And he started to cry. And Sophie called me and she goes, mom, there's no crying on the court. And I went, okay, yeah, there's like 13 periods. And so I, because we think all my kids played basketball and David would always say, those who cried on the court. So I thought, you know what? Yeah. Get your ass back in their Shannon. And I did get off the bench. And see who's still on the show and who's not. I'm just, I've had Megan on a lovely person, you know, I, you know, but you did win. You won. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Getting into current events on this season, Tamara in the most recent episode said she's kind of cautiously optimistic about rebuilding a relationship with you. How do you feel about that? Do you believe Tamara? And how does that relationship going? You know, I, I have, I have, do you believe Tamara? I have quite a history with Tamara. And sometimes it's frustrating because last year, I said, I'm willing to move forward. We can have fun together. But I just need to leave it there. I need to have a healthy boundary. And it just seems like no one respects the boundary because I feel that I'm continually pushed. You will see that, Tamara, and I have a lot of fun together. Um, it's just I sometimes I don't know what Tamara I'm going to get. Like, apparently she's made a few comments about me on social media recently. I just like, what? What did she say? Oh, that maybe I'm wishy washy with her because I'm concerned about social media comments. I have. And she said that about Heather too. I don't even read the comments. Probably. She said that. Heather was putting her in a box, which came from John, I think, but then also the tick talk of like Heather doesn't post Tamara on her tick talk. Oh, yeah. So I mean, that keeps me up at night. Yeah. I'm not in a tick talk. So tick talk. Fallings and unfollow. I will just just just to just to play devil's advocate. Yeah. You know, it's funny when it comes to you and Tamara. Yeah. I'm oh, like, I'm glad there's it seems to be some reconciliation because outside of this TV show, you're two of my favorite housewives, just because of like, you just both seem to be in person. Pretty chill, pretty normal, pretty fun. And then when I see you two go at it, it's like, I don't, I don't want to pick a side. You know, I do. Okay. Well, some people. I mean, if I have to say no, I get it. No, I get it. And you know what? I'm exhausted with the fighting. I don't want to fight. So that I believe about you. You seem to be more focused on resolution. And I can't necessarily necessarily. Resolution is like, do we need to be nasty? Do we need to go for that jugular? Um, but you know what? You like I say, you will see Tamara and I there is one time that we had together this season that I will flip and laugh about for a long time. So, and I think people will enjoy seeing that. Yeah. That's what I love about this season for me. Nick, you know, I've been involved in some drama. So it was so nice this year too. I have a unique relationship with each cast member in a silly way. And I was able to be silly with each and every one of them and laugh a lot. You know, who would have thought? But yeah, it was very fun for me this year. Was the boundary that you felt people weren't respecting when it came to Tamara? Was it more so that you were like, I can be cordial with you, but I don't need to be best friends. We can, we can do things we can laugh, but I don't need to, we don't need to check in. Right. Time's the day. I'm not going to go back there because I've done that before. And so just respect that. And you know, yeah. And in that vein, since you have silly kind of relationships with all the cast, would there potentially ever be a trace of mean gas return reunion? I don't. I, I, I mean, never say never because I don't bite me in the ass, but you guys are comedic geniuses. It doesn't mean you guys, doesn't mean you guys eat Doug. Yeah. We have the doesn't mean you guys eat Doug. There you go. All right. Right now. So you, you and Vicki are still closer than Vicki and Tamara. Just hung up with her. Okay. Because watching it, it almost seems like Vicki is like there is leaning, you know, towards one of the teas, isn't the two, you know, that's not true. Fake news. I don't know. You know, I don't, once again, I don't mind if Vicki's friends with whoever, everyone could be friends with whoever. I don't get jealous about any of that kind of stuff. Be who's ever friend you want to be. Okay. And you know, again, I, I, I'm happy where Tamara and I are when you know, we'll see how it goes. I thought we were good last year and then we went into a reunion and she's like, shot up. She, that's a really good Tamara question. Maybe I've said it a few times. Well, in that, in that vein, I guess like with ultimate, obviously, there was like stuff with ultimate girls trip. I don't know how much of that you can get into of like kind of what went down. Well, no, there was an argument. The camera, yeah. And, and we were, we were starting our show two weeks later. So we were, you know, instead of warming up your background. Don't be talking about, you know, issues that will be on our show on ultimate girls trip. And you're in the background. So if you watch this week and you'll see, I wore a very fun 80s rocker costume. It was really fun. And I went in going, I'm just going to be silly and have fun. But, you know, the camera kind of, yeah, it went all right. And then I got like, oh, we both were not allowed to go to the finale. And for me, it's not about being on camera for me. I was really excited to be included in this iconic group of women. And if you're going to go to the Berkshires for the weekend, for instance, it, it's that bonding time when you as a group are together for a couple of days. And I was really really upset that I missed out on that. So you got like booted. Yeah, I did because of like the fight. Yeah, yeah. It's giving like one to the principal's office. You cannot walk graduation. But you'll get your diploma. Yeah, I can. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I just, I think it was a camera's fault. Well, I mean, she did make some shape when she admits on the show. She said, she drunk. She will never get a man and she doesn't have any money. So at that, I was, I knew she was broken and I was calm. And then I wasn't. You know, you can only get poked so much. Yeah. Do you find that Tamra like knows how to poke you in a way that like nobody else does? Well, she, she's a good poker. Yeah. She professional poker. Yeah. I think she is. Yeah. Yeah. But no, it doesn't, I mean, I think if you go back to that Alexis season, like I, I was, she, she went out to me every time and it was, nope. That's an insane season. Yeah. Do you think Jen is inserting herself in drama related to Heather? It mean, it kind of, I, I don't think so, but it looks like it. Okay. I love Jen. She and I have this. I just couldn't just look at her and start laughing. She's very, very funny. But yeah, I did. Yeah. I think from a viewer's perspective, kind of, you know, like sometimes you just feel as when you're watching that it's like there's one housewife that it's, it's their season. And they're going to get it. And it just kind of feels like this season. There's a lot of talk about Heather, but I feel like Heather's pretty consistent personality wise and how she shows up. So why do you think all of a sudden there's drama? And by the way, I'm not saying that our show is not authentic because Jen Padranti is very authentic. But when you go and film, they'll say, your party's coming up next week. Remind everybody. and talk about how that lunch went with Tamra. And so it's not always that maybe she's bringing up Tamra, it's that don't forget to talk about this and then it's shown, you know? Yeah, but it's still, I imagine there's only a suggestion to talk about it, but what you guys talk about is entirely up to that. Many times she answers with Dorgas, no, not gonna talk about it. I don't know, you have the option. Well, what's going on with Emily? She seems to be picking fights with everyone, including her best friend. I don't know. I don't. You're not seeing what we're saying. I know. I don't need to be downer with Vicki. We have Heather talking too much or the fight over. She was talking a lot that night. Okay. She said she says I'd back Emily. Yeah, I backed that one up because I was thinking it when she said it. With Emily, with Gina, it was kind of throwing her under the bus to Carmella. The Gina thing is really what confused me at the dinner. I'm telling Carmella that Emily, Emily, I'm telling Carmella that Gina had an issue with the gift and like where Gina even her interview was like this is supposed to be a safe space. I don't understand why. Right. Well, it was the purse was a big was a big deal. And by the way, my birthday was next. It's coming. Kind of purse we ask you. What do you do? I've got it back myself. And were you upset by it? Or were you? No, I wasn't. I wasn't upset. Did you get the extra gift that came inside the bag as well. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no moved my stuff and I lived at her house for a month. - Oh, nice. - That honestly, so she's one of the most generous people. - That's what I was just gonna ask you. - Very, very kind. - Yeah, 'cause there's a lot of conversation and discourse around how she talks about her money or how she gifs and things like that. - But it's generous, like, okay. - Well, that's why, yeah, can she, can she just-- - I'm sure for that. - That's what I, that's, I'm glad you say that. Because it seems to be like the theme or the, I guess the insinuation is that it's, she's, in a more performative or disingenuous or, she's buying, 'cause she's trying to buy your friendship. - No, yeah. I think when we get a new housewife, obviously, we're hearing the discourse with the other housewives of questioning, so we're like, oh, is that performative? Is that inauthentic? Is she trying to like ease her way into the group? Is she here by handing out your bags? 'Cause it doesn't hurt. - It is a lot. - I mean, it's very extravagant. But it came from, I think, a good place. And, you know, let's be honest, in so far, she's set some, she's been pretty iconic as a new cast member. And like you see in the scenes when she says about the expiration date. Like, everyone does, the mouths pop wide open. It's like, whoa. - Yeah. - She has no fear. - Is she been one of your favorite, you know, 'cause obviously you've been here for 12 years. You've seen a handful of housewives come and go. Would you say Carmella's one of your favorite new additions? - Absolutely. I will say Jen Padronti and Carmella. But we've had a lot of kind of, I don't mean it in a bad way, but one hit, one year wonders, you know? It's one year and then they're gone. So. - And why do you think the one hit wonders didn't work out? Like, what would you say, what mistakes do you think they made? Strickly from like, how to be a housewife, it is a job. Where did it go wrong for them? - Well, I think a lot of people, because this show has been on the air for so long, they come in with an agenda. And I, like, I know when I started, I didn't think about what I was gonna do. I remember Megan King Edmunds called me in her second season. She said, I'm gonna try and be pregnant this season. What are you gonna do? I go, I'm gonna be Shannon. And people don't like it, then I'll walk up into the sunset. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna do whatever, you know, it'll come. - He said, I'll show up. - I'm curious, like, Andy Cohen, and I think he was doing some press for Ultimate Girl's Trip in this whole moment, and he talked about, I guess, like casting for housewives. And he, I think he said something like, it's not like a draft. You either wanna do it, and you think it makes your life better, or you don't. Which, you know, from a business standpoint, I can appreciate, 'cause I'm sure Andy's always constantly sick of all these people he's made famous, only for them to critique and point things out that they don't like. How has being a housewife made your life better? - But, you know what, I think that it really allowed me to gain independence, because, you know, I was a mom, I wasn't working anymore. I know, and I was working hard at home, but it just kinda gave me a voice. I'm so grateful for the platform. And it's something that was never in my wheelhouse. Like, I maybe had aspirations to be behind the camera, certain things, but never in front. It just was a fluke of how it all came about. So, you know, that was one of the things in my final interview. Doug Ross, who started evolution, one of the four founders of reality TV, he said, you know why you're here, right? And I go, no, he said, because you don't need this. You, like, I didn't care either way if I got it or not. So, and I think that some of these women really, you know, yeah, like, had I not got the offer that year, I never would have tried out again. You know, it was one time or nothing. - Are there, are there housewives who have had like many, many auditions? - Yes. - Where they're like, I hope this is like, look, this is it. - Yeah, there's a couple times, I guess. I don't know who and I'm not gonna name. - Okay. - No, not gonna get in trouble today. (both laughing) - How has Vicki's return been? Both, like, how's Vicki doing? - She, I think she's great. I mean, she and I have a banter. I am so excited. We go to Las Vegas in a couple weeks and all the, I'm excited. - The stuff that she and I do together. And by the way, in the first episode, yeah, we fell on the beach 'cause she put all her weight on me. (laughing) It's not that I, you know, I am clumsy and so is she. But, you know, we're not like, oh, you know, the cameras are filming. Let's roll around in the sand. No, that was not the intent. - No, that's the wonderful thing about the two of you on camera is it's always just seems genuinely like your dynamic and you just enjoy each other that way. - Yes, so, yeah, I really enjoy having her back. - I've really appreciated Vicki's commentary on her divorce. I've never heard too many people. I'm sure there are people out there who have regret their divorce or wish maybe it didn't go the way it did. I've heard very few people say, I wish I didn't do that. And I have regrets for the role I played. And I thought that's just really iconic of Vicki to be able to speak on that. - Very much so, I mean, I think all of us that get divorced regret it, you know, to put our kids through it and my nerves still kind of going through it a little. But not to say that I would want to stay married to David. No, but I do regret that we had to go through all that. - This is not pleasant. - Do you think Vicki would ever consider a reunion with? - Don? - Yeah. - I mean, when she speaks on him, she can feel the love. - No, they'll never get back together. - No, I don't think so. - Well, she's with Michael now. - I know. - Really nice guy. - They seem very sweet. - Yeah, they're very happy. - We like Michael for Vicki? - Yes, I've known him for a while now, so I think they're great together. - Vicki knows who I am yet. - Was that hilarious? (laughs) - Oh my gosh, she's like, who is this guy? I don't know. - Nick Vatt, Nick Vatt? - Nick Vatt? - I don't know. - That's just a queen. - Still one of my favorite days ever working. - No, I know, that is so funny. - Yeah, she's a character. - Would you like to say something? - And another person who famously, and doesn't need this, you know? - Yeah. - She's independently successful. - Right. - Would you guys ever do like a spinoff series, just like a buddy, kind of like what? Luann and Sonya did crappy like, like Vicki and Shannon? - Well, I would love to, give me a call. - Yeah. - Vicki and Shannon, take Bravo. - Take Bravo. - Like a travel show. - A travel show. - We do in a couple of weeks. It's very fun. - You guys should, it should be a show, where you go from just various hotel chains. - That would be great. - And give us your reviews. - Perfect. - Beautiful. - Get this brand deals locked in. - Yeah. - And you may mean more like motel chains. - Ooh. - Ooh. - That could be funny, maybe. - The simple life. - The simple life? - Yeah. - Going to Vicki and Carmella. Vicki has a lot of strong opinions on Carmella. We obviously know Vicki's not the biggest fan of newbies coming into specifics to you. - And Heather. - And Heather. - Yeah. - In herself. - Yeah. - But you took an instant liking to Carmella. - I did. - How was that dynamic during filming? I'm assuming at some point we're all going to come together. But how was that initially? - I feel bad for Carmella because it's hard enough to walk into a group not knowing anybody. But are you going to see it improve anytime soon? I don't really know about that. - Oh. - Yeah. just because that's Vicky's is Vicky. Yeah. Yeah. A little stubborn. Maybe Vicky's I think sat in her ways, but it also kind of seems like Carmella too is very who she is up front. No, she is. Yeah. She's very like I I watch the scenes with her kids like in the kitchen and they're sparring with their mom. It reminds me of my kids because my kids give me shit every single time every single time we have a conversation. I they know how to do it better or they're going to tease me for how I'm doing it wrong. So I I think her kids are great too. Yeah. Yeah. I just think she's a great ad. Would either would any of your kids want to you know because now you're seeing like next gen. Yeah. And you're seeing some bravo celebrity children become celebrities themselves. How would you feel about your children becoming bravo celebrities? You know, I think that if they wanted to that would be great. I have two in New York City and one in Paris. So you know, they're they're all did have to to make their own choices. It's interesting though because I just was thinking about this when my very first interview I ever did was live on the today show with Kathy Leake effort asked me have young daughters. How could you join a reality show and put them through that and this is live. And I'm like, Oh my god. And I said, you know, I didn't like you have to have a thick skin. If I can teach my daughters to get a thicker skin earlier than most than I'm doing them the service. Yeah. What did Kathy Lee say about that? I don't think she had my job. I don't remember Shannon's daughter one. My kids like if I do get bummed about something, especially so if you go, mom, who cares? Give them their minutes, you know, stuff rolls off of them. So yeah, do your daughters have any opinions on rekindling your friendship with Tamara? Absolutely. You share any of them? No, they do. And you know, they're just they're cautious. Yeah, you know, because they don't want to see me get hurt. That's yeah. Yeah. You do seem to be and this is a compliment, the more vulnerable of the two in that relationship. But but well, the thing is is that I mean, and sometimes I get embarrassed about that. I'm not some weakling. I'm a survivor. But I do wear my heart on my sleeve. And so I am going to get emotional. So I and I'm not I'm not weakling. No, I'm very clear. Just because someone has like is emotional. You know, a lot of people will make certain comments. And I think an effort to maybe engage in a social media or with me. And I I'm not putting the sword down. I'm just not going to join the war. Right. I'm not going to do that with people. Um, I do something I can't stop thinking about. And I would love to know your take on it is Carmella offering Jen podrante 20,000 dollars to help her with her title. Okay. So I didn't hear about the 20,000 part. I just thought that Carmella was saying to Jen, Hey, you want to check out what I do? Maybe you might want to consider doing this on the side. Because when you're, you know, I built the the big house we lived in in the first my first seasons. And it's a lot of work. The constant checking in with the contractors, etc. So I thought that that's what it was about. But I get it when you add the 20,000, it makes it look a little weird. Well, especially since she has no experience and it would be her first time. Yeah. Well, I think I felt it was more of, you want to take a ride with me one day and see what I do. Yeah. See if you might want to get into that. So like she offered her 20,000 dollars to pick up. No, she's having the conversation. I think with Emily or something, but saying that she wanted to bring Jen to kind of empower her and be like, Hey, there's ways to make money. Right. Yeah. Cause Jen's always talked about her lack of financial independence. Right. Right. So I just thought it was an olive branch. I've said, Hey, check this out. Maybe it could be something you'd be interested in. But overall, I think the message is you've gotten a no Carmella. Yeah. And you feel that she is a genuine person with genuine intentions as well. It seems like obviously like the fans of Bravo are always like they always receive positive actions is almost like what's the angle? Yeah. I don't I don't think Carmella has an angle. Yeah. And she hasn't watched much of the show in the past. I know a lot of girls say I'd never watched and I'm thinking right. But I really don't think she has watched. So um, and she, she, she, how rich is she? Yeah. Cause the $39,000 a month for rent really. We were just like, well, she didn't end up moving there. Oh, she moved. Got another place. The one that I stated was quite, quite nice and brand new. Um, and it wasn't quite that expensive, but it's still what it's up there. You know what she, um, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but she married an NFL quarterback. Oh, it was playing at the time. Jeff Garcia. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. I'm a huge 49ers. Cleveland Browns. Yeah. And so I think that in addition to that, that she was kind of handling the money. So she's done quite well investing and doing her own. If you want to call it house slipper slash developer career, she's done very well in that. Okay. She's so married to him, right? Is that what I'm, she is, you know, she's on paper, on paper. Oh, so the one we're talking about the one that she is no longer together. That's Jeff Garcia. Yes. Okay. No, I knew I heard about Jeff Garcia. I just, I wondered if he was just like, I don't know. I guess I just, yeah. I had to go back and like, really lock it. And because I was like, she's still married to him, but they've been separated. Well, because like usually when we're, we talk about a person and it is like the ex-husband without the name, you know, Jeff Garcia's is certainly was like a high, high profile. Cornelas X superstar. But so they have four kids that are like 15, 16, 17 and 18. So I think that it was always we're going to let's just wait until all the kids, you know, grow up and go on their way. And then we'll revisit it. Can we have some fun and talk about your daily life a little bit more possibly? Yeah. Well, it doesn't, it's not much, but yeah, let's talk. You got your bench. Well, I know, but I haven't we confident in the bench here. Do you, before you go, before you go on a date, do you run these potential suitors by your daughters? Oh, no. No. No. Usually the meeting spot will be a local coronadel mar establishment. And it might end with a little kiss at the end. That's my welcome. Hello. How are you? But I want, I maybe I should just stay back from that now. I don't know. I call myself the kissing bandit, but then it's neck up only like we don't go anywhere further as well as a kiss. I know. It's quite nice. How do you feel about your stuff? I'm just kidding. Sorry. It was my stuff. It was called back. No, it was a call back for summer house. They would said something about like kissing on the ear or something. He's like, it's only neck up. Oh, sweet. Someone stole my neck up. Somebody did. Yeah. Your stuff will send. Okay. Yeah. The other words that most people could say. I feel like you always have like some sort of side project or like something up your sleeve that you're working on when you're not filming. Okay. Do you have anything that you're working on right now? I do, but I don't think I can talk about it. You know, I always shut my supplement company down last year because I wanted to have something outside of the show that I could fall back on and I funded it completely by myself. So it's a huge bummer that it didn't work out. It wasn't properly run and I didn't have the full-time availability to do it myself. So I have a couple other ideas. So we'll see. I can't wait. When you're not being a housewife or a mom, what does Shannon like to do for fun? Well, I like to go out to dinner and take a breath. Yeah. That's what I like. It's like, you know what? I'm going to go out to dinner and just take a breath because there's always stuff going on. It's busy, which I'm incredibly grateful for. I think it keeps me young. When I got the show, I was sick all the time. I used to watch the show when I wasn't feeling well. I had pneumonia like 17 times a year and I would watch going, how do they do it? How do they go to that party and then meet up for coffee that next morning? I'd be exhausted. Well, I'm doing it. Look at you. And knock on wood. No pneumonia sense. But they don't exactly. What's your go to meal at dinner? Um, gosh. I'll say a steak. I was raised on beef. Ballet. What's your temp? Well, I know. It's medium well. I know it's supposed to be bloody. Ballet? Medium well? Yeah. I can't. Look at the blood. It's a little pink. Yeah. And then I also like my baby back ribs that I make. That I take a whole day. How do you make how do you make them? I soak them in apple cider. I keep refilling the pans so that takes all the fat off. And then I make a glaze myself. I reduce it down and it tastes a little bit like Christmas. A little bit of apple cinnamon. What are the chances? Me, you and Tamara could have like lunch someday. Okay, Vicki. Vicki comes to the nicest thing you could ever say to them. Well, I'm fine with her. I'm fine. We did. It was interesting because this is how things happen with me. But we had our premiere party. And the night before, we didn't know when each of us was doing much what happens like. It was two spots and we were going to fill them. So it was a call, "Hey, did you hear about what you would have said?" And we had just seen the first episode. All of a sudden it turns into an hour and 52 minute conversation. And there was a lot of parts of that where it's like, "Oh, this is how we used to talk all the time." So it was very nice. So I'm doing my press line from your party going, "Well, we're just going to keep a distance from each other. I need to keep my boundary," and then we do a live panel. And then it, one interview says, "Five minutes later, talk, talk, talk, talk." And Tamer at the panel goes, "We were on the phone for two hours last night and I go an hour and 52 minutes." That was last time. But it's like, "You know, see I go, I'm creeping a boundary." What are you guys talking about for an hour and 52 minutes? You know, we criticize every single part of the show and all that kind of, you know, it's like, "Oh, did you, oh, can you believe when I said that or, oh, my hair," you know, that kind of stuff. Do you think that there's just, like, the, you and Tamer do have a bond after, like, being on the show for so long that you want to do it? Absolutely. And, until your honor show, I don't even think our children, even though they're a part of it or the spouses, can really understand what you go through, and because it's not roses the entire time. You go through seasons where people can't stand you. And it's almost a sorority. That's why BravoCon is so great. You meet Bravo Liberty and you have an instant understanding of each other and a connection. So, going back to 20 years of housewives, you obviously do get to mix and BravoCon everything. Who, from, not from your franchise, are you closest with or, like, that you admire how they've paved their way as a housewife? Oh, I admire many. Yeah. But I love Luan because we did the love hotel together. Right. I enjoy her. I think Kyle Richards is just the kindest person. And at Sony Morgan is a kick in the pants. I would love to see a night out with you in Sony Morgan. Oh, we've had some. Oh, yeah, we have. Documented. Yeah, she's. I love her. She's so great. She is. There are so many people. Even, I mean, the people who I'd really love to hang with are those below debt crew. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's my favorite show. Are we going to get a crossover, maybe? Yeah. We already had one, somebody, some city with the snowflake took it. Oh, no, they're doing. They can only do one summer house is doing one summer house is doing across over two. So it's not a. Wait, are you kidding? I'm not kidding at all. I feel like this is, like, there were, it was such a hit with the snowflakes. Okay. With the snowflakes. That they are doing it. Can I get some orange in there? Yeah. I mean, I don't think that people remember this about me, but it's a joke within our crew and cast that I grew up on boats. I grew up on boats. Oh, he did. Yeah. Nice. So it makes sense. Okay. Do you don't get seasick? I do. I do, actually, but I, because I grew up, I, it was actually, we had a whale watching. Was that the last episode? And I go, do anyone, do you get seasick and they go, you grew up on boats? I go big boats. I grew up on big boats. Well, even the big boats, you can get seasick. So bad. Do you like cruises? I've never been on one. I was supposed to do that cruise with Dolores and Teresa and it got kids. Oh, yeah. I was excited to do my first cruise. Not much of a cruise guy. I don't know that I would be. Well, then you see all those documentaries that come out. It's trapped in hell. Yeah. I mean, I personally love it, but I haven't had a horror experience at all. Oh, good for me. My horror experience is the buffet line. They've restaurants sit down. Well, I- There's too many rules on cruise. And also, how many people follow? Literally, you have to sit next to the same people. Oh, you do? I mean- They have, you have like a sign seating. I've only been on a carnival cruise. There's like, there's like, themes each night. I was like 17. But how many people fall over? That's my fear. I told the girls, you're not going on a cruise because they probably freaking fall. Well, it's not as many as I think you would be thinking. That's, yeah. I feel like the following. One to the many. But yeah, no. I mean, I do think it's a fun time. I think if it the Bravo did a cruise because then they would for sure probably reserve certain. Oh, yeah. I would like to do that. Right. Like a Bravo con cruise or something because then they would definitely reserve like levels just for talent. So they probably have securities so people can't. So much fun. Yeah. But then you guys would just be like, okay, guess we're going to go hang out on the beach in the Bahamas. They should do the like Bravo's love boat. That would be great. I mean, I'm also available for that phone call. Yeah. And my kids do these things like they go to Stella was in Tomorrowland, you know what that is? It's like some festival. In Belgium, like the biggest one in the world or something. Sophie was just at Lala Polusa, which I'm seeing the trolls. I'm like, you're flipping Sardine. Where's the exit? You know, it's just, it's a different world. You know what I shouldn't say it. You know what Sophie said to me? She goes, Mom, if something happens to me, just make me the face of it. What? I mean, it's optimistic way to look things, you know? She wants to be a cautionary tale. That's just, I mean, honest, but when you have kids, it all changes. I kind of get it. When you have kids, it's like, no, you know, you're just like, you're not going. You care. Yeah. Yeah. Shannon, I know you have to get going. But anything else you want to leave us with? I mean, I want to ask you, Nidvah, how do you feel about season 20? It's Andy and I were talking last week and he was saying that to him, it is very reminiscent of the show when I started years ago, but more fun, more getting into people's lives. Do you agree? Yes. I think OC is currently my favorite franchise. Really? Yeah. Because I think, I think it's very difficult to be a legacy franchise, which you ladies are. You've been around for a long time and still continue to be interesting. And there are just too many franchises in the bravo space that rely too heavily on dark drama. Right. Yeah. We were out of the darkness. Yeah. You guys have certainly had yours. But the flip side of that coin is sometimes it's not interesting when you don't have that toxicity. And I really, it's fun to watch you women have fun. And I really enjoy it. And it's, it's, yeah, I really, I just really enjoy your, you guys make me laugh. It feels again, mostly authentic, you know, it's also fun to watch you guys work. Like in the sense of like how you, how you guys deal with conflict now where obviously you have pain points and seasons where it's like everything kind of seems dragged out. And we're like, all right, 10 episodes and you guys are still talking about this where it's like it's nice watching you guys come together to where you guys can sit down, have dinner, have the conversation, say what needs to be said. But then it's like the next day we're all together and we can do the activities and we can have fun and put everything on a back burner where some of these series, it's kind of hard because you're just like you guys are belaboring it when you guys could be having a good time and we want to see both sides of the coin. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of franchises out there who have seen the success of other franchises and it, you know, there's a lot of self-producing and there's a lot of, you know, I feel like I need to do this. I feel like I need to do that. Yeah. And I feel like there's less of that with Orange County. Yeah. Something that I kind of noticed, I feel as though our cast, they really let you in to their lives. Yeah. As whereas some of the other shows that I've seen, it's just, it's more of a distance. Like we really let you in. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you got like, oh my god, the Amsterdam trip last season. Yeah. Like watching you guys do like drugs and Amsterdam is like the funniest thing in the entire world. And then mushrooms. Yeah. It's like, I'm like, that's as much as really a drug, it's not an Amsterdam, not an Amsterdam. And then it's like you get to have just like conflict resolution. It's like the ability, like it, it does, it gives me, I'm like, oh man, I want to be able to hang out with my girls like this and the way, like in my life. And it's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions for me? No, I think that's, I think I'm good. Okay. Shannon, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Great to see you doing so well, congratulations on 12 years. Thank you. And congratulations to you. Thank you. But thank you for being one of the most iconic housewives and, uh, you have no plans in going anywhere. Right? No. Okay. Okay. Okay. Wait. What? You know something? I don't know. Well, you know, like sometimes, you know, they'll be like, you know, I don't know. You know, like it's like, oh, I've never, no, I'm not one of them. No. I know. No. Yeah. I don't play those games. Okay. Sorry. We're lucky. Clocked. Shannon Bader, everybody. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you to our guest, Shannon Bader, and Jimmy. It's always a pleasure to have you. Don't forget to sign up for Valfaul's Plus. It is free. Add free and available in a bunch of great content as well. Just go to Valfaul.com to sign up. We'll see you tomorrow. Nope. We'll see you on Thursday. Till next time. (upbeat music)