E1169 - Friendly Coworker or HR Violation? | Ask Nick

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I am 41, and I have finally found a man that I feel really loved by. But every time I see him, I'm like, oh, my God. I don't know what to do with him, but I think I'm going to have to figure out a way to get him out of my life. I feel like I'm wondering if I am ignoring red flags or if I am sabotaging the relationship. Okay. All right. Well, let's see if we can figure it out. A couple questions off the bat. How long have you guys been dating? We have been dating right at about two years. Okay, two years. Probably the hardest part of our relationship is we are long distance. Okay. How long? Right now, he lives about an hour and a half away. A drive? Yes. Okay. Not terrible. How long? He does work on the road sometimes. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, you're not seeing him as much as you'd like. In terms of your relationship experience up into this point, where does this guy kind of fall? Is he like a first love? Have you been married before? Like, where is your. Oh, yeah. What's your experience level in terms of love and relationships, and where does this land for you? Well, I guess my first relationship that makes a difference in my life today was in college when I had my son. I wasn't married. Okay. And then I was. And then I got married and had a child, and now I've since divorced. Okay. And here I am dating. I have had one boyfriend before my current boyfriend. Okay. And he has a similar backstory. Awesome. Well, that's helpful context. So, I guess just out of curiosity, what are the potential red flags that you're not sure whether you should give more attention to, or they're just typical relationships? Relationship, you know, friction. He gets upset with me sometimes, and that's just how I word it. I don't like for people to be upset with me, but, like, he even gets so far that, like, he wants to accuse me. Like, he's so mad, he wants to accuse me, like, cheating. Okay. So, I mean, like, certainly everyone has a right to get upset with friends and partners, and, you know, I guess it's how they get upset and what they do when they get upset is the big part. And, like, when he's accusing you of cheating, where is that coming from? Is it, like, out of space? Like, completely made up? Well, like, the biggest issue that I had with the fighting, I seriously, I did not text him back for 20 minutes. He knew I was at work. He accused me of not really being at work. And apparently, whenever he doesn't hear from me for, like, 15, 20 minutes, he starts to get anxious. And apparently, I get this habit of checking my Facebook, like, right before I leave work. Like, I didn't even know I did that, but apparently I did. And so, like, he would even notice that, like, oh, well, she checked her Facebook this many minutes ago. I think she left work then. Okay. And so, it comes down to he has accused me of cheating because of that little timeline. And then I get super frustrated. I just get mad immediately. Whenever I'm being accused of cheating. Right. For sure. That makes sense. And wait. So, how are you cheating in his mind? Because you went on Facebook? Because, like, you didn't reply to him? Like, what if. Couldn't she be, like, at the grocery store or, like. Oh, yeah. Anything. Not driving or. That's just what his mind goes to. Right. Right. And just out of curiosity, when he points this out to you or reacts, let's say he is he gets anxious, you know, you know, maybe he's anxiously attached or whatever, you know, his, you know, whatever that is, is he at least, as he comes down from his anxiousness or after you do call him back, is he recognizing the overreaction? It can take days, but yes. So, he does. It takes him a long time, but he does acknowledge that? He does, typically. Okay. Does he apologize? He does. And then when it happens again, what. You know, let's say the situation you're describing happened once. Let's say it happened the first time. And then let's say it took him a couple days to go, yeah, I guess maybe I overreacted. And then, like, a couple weeks would go by, and then he does it again, right? Like, what is. The second time, how does he respond? Is it like. Same exact. It's just the same exact cycle. Right. Every. That seems like a red flag. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it seems. Well, one, you're not doing anything wrong. Right? 100%. What are you supposed to do differently? Not go on Facebook? Like, are you supposed to, like. Are you supposed to wear a Bluetooth in your ear constantly so that when he calls that you never miss a call? Like, what is his solution to this problem that he seems to have? Because it does seem like it's solely centered around his. His delusion and insecurities and anxiety, and what are you supposed to do? Right. It is definitely his insecurities, and, like, I know couples have it to where they can see each other's location, so I've offered for us to share a location. He says no. Yeah, but that's only non-toxic. Like, Natalie and I do that now because it's just, like, it's sometimes just easier to check her location than text her, or when are you going to be home, and obviously it's just good to know that I can. You know, it is not to be a watchdog because I don't trust her. Like, that's. Right. You know, that's not the intention. So, like, if you want to share your location, great, but, like, offering to share your location so your boyfriend stops accusing you of cheating, you know, that's super productive. Yeah. No, it's not, and I do have it now to where he can't tell if I'm online on Facebook or not, and. Which, I don't know, I mean, I barely. I feel like I barely get on there. I'm not surprised that there's a pattern. Does he recognize this is a problem? Yes, he does. He does. I'm sorry, I'm starting to get emotional about it. Like, honestly, probably since I sent in the email, which it was a while ago that I sent in the email, we had, like, gosh, three or four weeks of just terrible. It was pretty much, like, constant something coming up. Like, we broke up. One time we broke up for, like, 20 minutes. One time we broke up. One time we broke up for a day. One time we broke up for a weekend. Right now, we're doing better, but. Who's breaking up with who? I guess it's more me, because I'm just, like, so, like, mad at the way he treats me whenever. I mean, I haven't done anything. Like, I mean, now I know there are times I can react better to some argument, so I'm sure I'm not perfect all the time. But, um. So, I'm the one that's walking away, but, like, there are times now that, like, I'm scared for my phone to be on a breach, and I am a terrible person of keeping up with my phone, and he sees it when I'm at his house. You're afraid of what, again? Say that again? Your phone? I'm, like, I'm afraid of, like, losing my phone. Like, not keeping up with my phone, because I'm going to miss a text from him, and then he's going to get angry with me, like, so it's got this anxiety in me. Yeah, so basically, your relationship. Right now, as it stands, is causing you to be hyper-anxious, and, you know, like, your cortisol level is, like, constantly, like, but you're just, you're on edge, and it's the relationships that's causing you to be on edge, so, like, it's, like. But he is a great man, though. Like, there are so many great things about him. Like what? I do feel myself sometimes comparing him to my ex, so, like, it's, like, he's so much better, like, my ex would not make time for me, like, even if he was tired, like, I don't know, it was just always about how he felt, and so this man, he just, he makes time for me no matter how busy his schedule is. Okay. Because right now, he's only working an hour and a half away, 40 hours a week, but here in a little bit, he is going to probably be, like, five or six hours away, working 50, 60. plush hours a week and he's always going to make the time for me. and then when we are together because he has a daughter i have two children like he's just always about like you know we have family time and like it just it feels special and i guess we just both appreciate the same things like quality time together that's okay that's great i mean like you know that this is a problem and you know that it's not sustainable and it sounds like he knows it's a problem and i can't sit here and tell you like you know here are five steps to but you know like i think this would be like a really great you know a perfect opportunity for like couples therapy and maybe individual therapy for him i mean he needs like forget about setting aside therapy like you need to be able to say to him listen i love you uh and i love a lot of things about a relationship and here's all the things i appreciate but i'm not doing anything wrong and it's one thing to have a moment of insecurity and anxiousness but like you you are constantly accusing me to the point where this is how i feel and i am tired of i can't keep feeling like i'm i'm scared to make you angry and you even recognize that you get triggered so i need you to deal with your triggers and i need us as a couple to figure out how you know because no matter how how good he can be at times this bad is so bad that like you you know you're not happy and and you're you're constantly on edge and when you are with him the limited time you do get with him it sounds like most of the recent discussions are about this whole ordeal so like he needs to recognize while he's having a hard time uh controlling his emotions he needs to at least recognize when he's not triggered that it's not okay how he reacts and he has to he has to be able to be like i don't want to act this way and i don't want you to make you feel this way so let's do something about it because clearly you've tried to argue with him that's not going to change i can only imagine that when you guys start arguing it probably gets into the weeds and has really nothing to do with you know actually solving the problem well he just says that i just get really stubborn which stubborn about what stubborn about what like if he were yeah if he were on this call what would he what would he say to me what would be his defense or his explanation i don't know i don't know what it would be guess but i mean i think he knows it's his insecurities but you do think he would be like yeah i do that shit i don't know why like i you think he would acknowledge it yeah and you think he would be like yeah i know she's i know she's not cheating and and like i'm not yeah there are there are times he's like you are the sweetest person and he was like that he's like that is what i love about you like you're such a sweet person and it gets to where like i feel like he's attacking my character because he sees me as someone that's willing to cheat on him but how how how often is he accusing you of this and then when he is accusing you how intense is the acu are the accusations no it's been like two or three times and if it's not i mean he has straight up said i know you're cheating um and one time i seriously sent him the pen and i was like here i am look up this pen see if you think i'm at work and then like i was just so mad i was like but just leave me alone for now i mean i was just so angry that i was at work and he was like no you're cheating but even if it isn't the cheating it's i mean i know there was one time like he did it and like i don't know like my phone was not in the same room with me but i was scrubbing the kitchen floor to clean that day and then i get up and find my phone and see that he has just blown my phone up and like so part of it is also maybe a little bit mean why is it you so some of the time so like when he accuses me of cheating yes he's gone too far but so i do go and i see a therapist right now i'm only seeing her every other month okay but i was talking to her about it i was like he was just so mean to me because um i do a weekly or a monthly group with some ladies and i wasn't texting him back in a matter and the right amount of time i should have already been done whatever what is the right amount of time i mean that's that time i think it was 10 minutes maybe 15 minutes like they are not like to me i think an hour or two is when you should start to get worried but 10 to 15 minutes i think is well also it just depends if my wife is like hey i'm gonna go i don't know do something maybe she yes goes to a movie and she's like yeah true and you know i'm not expecting her to i mean i guess now that we have kids that she's gonna have her phone on in case but you know what i'm saying like and so but anyways i was talking to my therapist about it and i ended up just reading her the text because it's all on text and she looked at me and she's like those aren't mean and so like sometimes he's not always mean but then i just get so angry anyway can you are you can you give me an example well i mean i i'm just going off what you're telling me and like he is accusing you of cheating because you didn't respond in 10 minutes yeah well not every single time yeah he's he's he's been cheating like three times but then the other time even if he's like doing even if he's like i think i know you're cheating on me and he says and he whispers i again like it's it's uncomfortable to be accused of something that you're not doing and to have your character be in question so like i don't yeah i guess yeah i don't and so even when he isn't accusing me of cheating like i feel like it's still to that same degree just because he has before so what what does your therapist read on the situation that you're overreacting well that time she was just like he's not even being mean i'm like well i was like if i was there i think he'd have a tone and i mean certainly yeah yeah you definitely are probably reading it in a defensive way but like you i am and i mean so but if are you if you're being accused of something how would you not like well that time he wasn't accusing me he was just like why aren't you answering your phone like what's going on like he had called me like five times that's that's an accusation so it's not no i have i don't remember the last time i've i've called nally five times in a row and then text her why why why isn't she answering her phone i mean yeah she's pretty responsive and i do have her location but it's just like if i don't know like it's just you're not sounding like you're off the grid here like you you know you're not even if you were like again outside of like raising kids together because there's always like and i know you have kids and you have but let's say god forbid you were like you know what i'm on my phone too much my iphone gave me like you know that notification on sundays i was like you spend 13 hours a day on the phone and you're like you know what i'm gonna leave my phone in the car i'm gonna go to the mall i'm gonna have some just like i'm like that would be normal to do and maybe yeah it would give you like you might you might want to like you know tell everyone that needs to know hey i'm gonna put my phone away but it's you know not a crime and like again again like if you're being literally serious that like if it's past 15 minutes the man loses his mind i don't know how it's not it's been 15 to 20 minutes i mean those are i know it's been 15 to 20 minutes like that's not an exaggeration at all and so when he calls you five times and was like why aren't you calling me that's an accusation yeah and then whenever i try to call him back to actually talk to him he won't answer me either okay so he's only calling to get my attention like he's calling so that i will see that he wants me to give him my attention what does your therapist say about that i don't even know i'll never see her tomorrow so it's been two weeks since i've seen her um her biggest advice for me is if i want to love him i have to accept everything about him that's her advice but every time she gets mad at him like i'm trying some of the things that i tell her why i mean why why is she getting what do you mean mad at him i don't know mad but she like thinks he's you know being ridiculous has she attempted to give you any tools for trying to solve the problem which is this disconnect and it's like no it's like no i mean i do feel like for him we've got to figure out how to communicate better sure i do feel like i can only do so much yeah for sure and also like i hope that your therapist isn't just like playing judge like does she just like have an opinion like who was more right or wrong i mean i know she definitely knows he isn't the wrong at times i know she does yeah but great i mean like again like a friend can have an opinion you don't need a license for that but like does she Is she trying to help guide you to a place where you two are less disconnected than you are on this topic? Specifically this topic, no. Okay, well, it might be something you want to consider. Therapy is pretty expensive, and it's very beneficial. But if you're just paying a couple hundred bucks an hour to have someone listen, you can have a friend do that. Obviously, a therapist is supposed to listen, but at some point, they should help you get unstuck. At least try. It may not work. It sounds like you are exhausted trying to figure out this topic. And you seem at least open-minded that maybe you're playing a role in this, and maybe you're doing something imperfect that's causing this. It sounds like, again, I'm only hearing your version of the story, but you seem open-minded. Which, to me, suggests that probably you're not exaggerating. From what you're describing, I would be frustrated if I were you. I don't see how it's sustainable. And there seems to be some elements of toxicity on his behavior. Because no one wants to be accused of this type of behavior. And no one wants to feel anxious because they didn't get back to their partner. Like you're being watched. For sure. You know? And it's just so frustrating. Like, I know you talk about, like, age, and, you know, it's just, you know. But it just feels like I've gotten so far in life. And, like, I just can't figure out how to get it right with somebody. Is what it just feels like. Well, I mean, I hear you. I understand it can be discouraging. But you're only 41. You, I don't know if you want to. and while every relationship has its ups and downs there needs to be some kind of path forward well i think i will try to communicate no i'll do better than try i'll communicate how much it affects me and when you go to therapy um you should ask yourself if you feel better or more empowered or at least you have some direction after you leave therapy if all you did was complain for your therapist and then got their opinion on your point of view i don't know how productive that is but even there are a lot of other therapists out there maybe you just need to find a different one maybe i mean she's like my third one and i do feel like each one like gives me how are they well this one i had high expectations um i'm a terrible judge of age i know she's older than me yeah i mean like yeah there's i think it's it is it's i think it's important to have someone with some lived experience uh it is but i don't know i do wonder if i've gotten everything out of her that i am going to get maybe but well i mean i i haven't found therapists to be you know i've had my therapist for i don't know how many years now and because like when i do talk to her i find like it's always fairly productive you know it's not it's not like now he's like revolutionary but i she helps me get unstuck you know and so it's not like she's only like it's not like oh you know she's only good for eight visits and then she just keeps saying the same thing over and over the situations i bring the table are different and she often the advice is the same from her but like it so you just have to ask yourself if if this therapist is again pointing you in the right direction like her opinion doesn't really matter in fact i think most therapists are reluctant i mean i'm lucky enough to have a therapist that does give me her opinion which is i find uh but her opinion isn't really relevant to the what you know it's it's her helping me not to get unstuck you know to not keep ruminating to either to either to either deal with something and then help me with the steps of how i deal with it or to let something go so and same thing you need to either let it go and by let it go like move on from this relationship or you need to figure out the tools to deal with this but you you know it does require him to participate and it you know it's either one of those two things and and when you go to therapy to talk about this you should leave therapy feeling like you've got at least pointed into one of those two directions and and and and gotten some helpful guidance and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and it feels like you are part of that decision you know right um i don't think you should be like well my therapist said we should break up you know or or my therapist thinks honestly he's the sweetest guy in the it's like who gives a shit yeah i mean she's never done that i mean but i don't know i didn't know last time like i was talking to her and i was like he's so mean to me and like i was just telling her some of the stuff and like you can really tell like she was like oh my gosh can't believe he did that then she read the text and then she was like oh well these aren't even mean i mean yeah she's allowed to give her yeah but then she was just i don't know like they're still at the end they were still that session they were still like nothing yeah i mean again like the meanness isn't really the i mean it would be extra problematic if he was mean about it but it's the accusations that are the problem so yeah yeah well what do i know i'm not therapist all right well it was this helpful do you feel like it is helpful it's just hard i get it i hear you the only way what you know you gotta you gotta get through it you gotta make some choices uh because right now you've just consistently are feeling bad and talking about this over and over isn't gonna change how you feel right and i this is something else that i probably do that's not helpful a lot of the time i try to hide the hurt that i feel from him sometimes sure yeah that's normal yeah but that's not like it that's not like he doesn't know i'm hurt that's not helpful though well it sounds like you communicated enough that he understands okay and again i do think like a next step would be to just lay it out there and let him know how you're feeling you know you tell him what you've told me which is i'm generally scared i'm i'm scared because i feel like i'm honestly like always on edge to try to make you mad and i don't like the how that makes me feel on a consistent basis and then i'm scared about the possibility of wondering if maybe we're not right for each other because i don't want to keep feeling this way but that makes me scared too because i don't want to lose you but i can't keep doing this and i need to figure this out and i need to figure this out and we need to figure this out and if you care like if you want to figure this out with me i would love to figure this out with you but if it's not a priority and what you say doesn't really matter what you do matters a lot more and if you're willing to do something about it then let's figure this out and if not then i guess i just have a tough choice to make right i can do that i can have that conversation with him all right all right well try to feel better thank you i appreciate it you're gonna be okay you got you know not ideal but you're gonna be okay you're gonna be but all your problems are are very fixable and uh you you are you are in control by which i hope makes you feel better knowing that i don't know if it does or not knowing that i'm in control i'm really afraid of making the wrong decision i don't think you're gonna make the wrong decision i really don't i think it's almost you know if i just lay it all out there i mean well you seem like in love with him and dedicate you want this to work yes so my instinct tells me you will probably go we'll go above and beyond any reasonable amount of effort to make this work and if you are forced to leave it'll it'll it you'll be well past um having any regrets you're you're not gonna you're not gonna make the wrong decision i would encourage you to not take as long as you're probably going to take to make it but you know that's not that big of a deal we've all we've all taken too long but yeah i'm pretty confident you're not going to make the wrong decision okay the only way that you'd make the wrong decision is if like five years from now you call me up and you're like yeah same guy same feeling same cycle i've been feeling then then you know all right yeah thank you all right well take care of yourself all right you too and give us an update if there is one okay all right all right all right take care thank you everybody what's up everybody don't forget that all vile files post content is ad free plus for all you ask nick listeners out there your update specials are ready and waiting for you i know you are very interested on the follow-up calls what has happened to these people after they heard my advice did it help them did it hurt them has their life changed well you can find out on update plus and you can get update plus behind vile files plus so go to vilefiles.com to sign up you will be glad that you did this is janna kramer from wind down with janna kramer i had this moment the other day where i thought why am i waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life i don't need a week off just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing and so i went to resortpass.com there are hundreds of hotel resort pools spas and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night i booked a one-day pass at the four seasons hotel in spa nashville and i'm like wow why am i just learning about resort pass and i'm like wow why am i just learning about resort pass and i'm like i may have only been 15 minutes from home but it felt like a whole different world i found myself 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color these premium gel pens feature curated colors designed to power your day blue for productivity purple for creativity and pink for optimism go grab your pack of g2 boost today walmart g2 boost hues to power you how's it going good how are you i'm good what's your name i'm alex i'm 33 my question is when does giving a co-worker the benefit of the doubt become ignoring my own discomfort. All right. Well, explain to me the situation. So I guess I, I feel like I know the answer in the sense of like what an HR training video or module is going to say, but the real world is, isn't as black and white. And basically, so I work in an office where my team and department are in another state. I work very by myself. Like I, this one coworker is, I go down like an empty hallway of like 10 vacant offices and his is the only other occupied office. So it's kind of an odd dynamic in the sense of, I don't know, it just makes it more uncomfortable. But basically for the last year and a half, um, we've worked together and it's been very just pleasantries of like, good morning, have a good night when I pass his office. And then it seems like overnight, the dynamic kind of changed. He came into my office one day and was like asking me to lunch. And what I do on, we do lunches with vendors quite frequently and he's not a vendor. Obviously he's like a colleague, but then he's like, has a side hustle that maybe is a vendor thing. So we kind of pitched it that way. And then I think he, I looked like a deer in headlights when he asked me. And so I ended up saying yes. And I canceled, well, I rescheduled and I canceled anyways. When you say he has a side hustle, like even if he did, couldn't he just, if he had to pitch you, I mean, cause I mean, like you said, you take people, you take clients to lunch, right? Like and it's all a part of the, whatever you do, the whole sales process or you're smoothing or just relationship building. Like, is it weird that he's pushing this? Yes. Yeah. So it's immediately like weird. Like he's kind of, so I guess I work in like a financial institution type thing. And so what he does, I would say he more wines and dines clients. And what I do is I'm more kind of get wind and dine by clients. Yeah. Um, and so it was, yeah, I felt immediately uncomfortable because also in my, in this job, like I just don't really go to lunch with people. It's much more cause my team's in another state. Like my last job was more of like the open air workspace. Like you chit chat with your coworkers. Like we would go to drinks after this is not that like, I'm not friends with the people I work with. I kind of wanted it that way. Like I'm pleasant with them. And then I go on with my day. So on top of this, I don't know if I'm overreacting because I met my current boyfriend at my last job. And now we live together. We've been together. For about two and a half years, but I get home that day and I go to him. I'm like, I don't know if I disagree to go on a date with somebody like I, I, and he's like, you're overreacting. Like it's a vendor lunch. Look at it that way. Okay. So I first cancel and reschedule and then I just canceled it. Then it was like, okay, that was fine. And then about two, three weeks went by and this was about a month ago. So that kind of adds to my question too, but I don't know. I have my messages up over here. I don't know if they're here. So I don't want to get it wrong on what he said. And I don't know if it seems like he had like a body snatch takeover because all of a sudden I'm getting these teams messages on right before I'm going out of town for a week. And he's asking me again about lunch, but framing it as a group lunch, wait, who else is coming to lunch? So you walk into like the main doors of my office or building, and then you turn to the left and there's like offices and that's where like you go open a new door and there's like the 10 empty offices, or you can go straight in. You're in like a retail area. There's like five people that work in there. So it was the retail people. Plus me who works more for corporate plus him. So I'm still on the outskirts. Like I'm the outlier of this situation, but that the retail people do typically include us, but he was organizing a group lunch in this new asking. Yes. When you brought it up again, I said, I'm out of town that week. You know, don't wait on me. And did it feel like a casual, like, Hey, we're all doing this. You're welcome to join. Or did it feel like it was really important that you participated? It felt important because, so he messaged me on teams saying I'm taking them out next week. Wanted to see if you want to join us. If so, what days work for you? And then immediately he said, I know you're busy. You can call me at blank when you get the chance. I'm like, I don't need to call you from my schedule first. Like if I'm busy, that's going to take more time. So I just said, I'm out of town. Um, you know, if you guys ended up doing one, not next week, let me know, but otherwise don't wait on me. And then he kind of went back and forth on how he'd saw, like talk to my boss when he. He talked to my boss when he was in town. Um, I don't where our headquarters is, but then about a couple of days later, he messaged me saying, when you get back, I'll hook you up with some food since you won't be here for, you know, this appreciation lunch. And I said, Oh, like, thanks. When did you guys decide for the week? And I'm being pleasant because at this point, like I still, he's like a little awkward. He's I'm so I'm 33. He's almost 50. I Googled him after all of this to get some more information, which I I have a deal but still like he's just socially awkward I feel are you aware of his relationship status no I know that he has I think like two kids that are a little like maybe like 14 or 10 or I don't know something like that but I I honestly have not even looked like at his ring finger but I'm pretty confident he's single but sitting here he no he is I just I couldn't say for certain but he's never mentioned anything but so then it gets weird so I said where'd you guys decide to go for this week and then he said if nothing else I'm persistent I figure you can't shoot me down three times then he says I know you're busy but call me when you get the chance today at blank I just want to talk to you for a second then I don't respond on teams and then he calls me through teams because he doesn't have my cell phone number and then I don't answer then he messages me again and goes back to the vendor thing you know I'm trying to get on your vendor list I'm really good at I don't even know what that is that he mentioned you know and then he kind of mentions like I'd offer to do this uh for free and like a referral and like willing to give a referral fee and blah blah which I'm pretty sure is a whole nother issue with HR with referral fees and like kickbacks then he continues to go on to like compliment me but also insult me by saying like I'm not one to talk because I don't even have my picture on here but the one you have kind of makes you look way bigger than you are I'm just telling you because I would want someone to tell me it doesn't look bad it's just distorted and I said good thing I'm not trying to impress anybody at work and then he's like well I'm not impressing anyone with my looks but I just couldn't I just feel like I could tell you wouldn't be offended it was meant more of a compliment but as you know I have no one to talk to here so please don't take offense and then he messages me again two minutes I promise and I'll leave you alone sends his phone number or I can call you if you'll answer don't I keep reading sure well so I send him kind of a long message but it's like sorry hectic day like please send an email to and we have like a distribution list for my department you know with the vendor information to hear that they can onboard it like I don't really have time for this just kind of goes on throughout the whole thing and then he's like I'm not going to and so the update kind of since then is I told myself at the end of that day because I was going out of town for the week and I said okay like if he messages me when I get back into town is maybe when I'll like escalate it because at this point like I walk down this hallway it's just me and this one man it's just uncomfortable like and to this I mean it's a month later and I still feel weird but so I get back from out of town and I don't go into my office that Monday I get a message at like 5 30 p.m on tuesday and I'm like oh my god I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so that's let's just says workaholic and the next message is like it's okay me too and the next message is like hope you had fun like on your trip have a good night and I didn't respond and then since then it's just kind of gone back to the pleasantries and so now I'm also struggling with like did I overthink it did I not did I miss the boat on if I should report it if I shouldn't but it's annoying because I'm sitting here obviously still stressed about it and overthinking it and he might have just like gone on with with his day so I mean all I can do is just give you like with little information it's not really advice but my opinion is and my gut tells me it's like you met you work with kind of a awkward guy a conversation about your photo honestly sounds like a guy who like meant to try to give you advice and then we're like in the middle of giving you advice about the photo realize how you might take it you know when someone's like I don't take it you know it's just like but he was like trying to make conversation does he know you have a boyfriend yeah so I mentioned my boyfriend uh I've definitely mentioned him just in the small talk we've had but in this conversation he goes on to like basically started telling me that like I'm never gonna make money in the career I'm at and he can help me though like it's not gonna make me wealthy I'm spending too much time making money for other people and then you know if I want to go into this market he can help me and I said you know that's actually my boyfriend's market so I I'm sorry okay yeah that okay that's how you yes and I said oh like you know that's how you introduced your boy yeah okay again because I know I've said it but I did say in that conversation like that's actually my boyfriend's market so I got it covered if I ever need some advice and what do you say he didn't say anything about like the boyfriend thing he just still went on to say I can introduce you to so and so um and then like you can tell me to shut up at any time too I know I'm a freak but sometimes it seems like you're spending too much time making other people money or maybe dealing with things that are below your pay grade and I just said I appreciate the advice but I promise I'm doing just fine again uh back to like my opinion this isn't advice um I my gut tells me he's just lonely at work you're just there yeah and he's just you know trying to like I don't know she's fucking here so I guess like you know and then he mansplains a little bit and and oversteps I'm you know mm-hmm but uh it'd be a really weird way to like I mean usually guys are a little bit more obvious about if they're like making moves and you've made it clear yeah as a boyfriend and that didn't stop him from you know like that didn't really change how he communicated with you yeah which tells me that that's it's not because he's trying to date you and and get in bed with you it's just oh cool she's got a boyfriend great anyways i still have advice for you you know it's like yeah no that's it's funny because this is kind of the opposite take than i thought you'd have but it's a good take because like i said i've been overthinking it so much that again i don't i don't i this isn't advice because i could totally be wrong i'm not there and i'm not i'm not trying to to tell you not to worry about something that you know from an outsider's point of view but so this is just an opinion i think it's good to note that your boyfriend isn't worried yeah i mean i like read him this whole i was home when this was going on i was reading him the whole conversation i'm sitting here freaking out and he was kind of like if you're worried go to hr otherwise i don't know i was almost getting annoyed with him so i'm like you don't get it like this is uncomfortable and i have talked with friends since and a lot of my friends it became this like go to hr conversation but i think it like this is somebody's career you know it's it's an awkward awkward environment if i mean you have the right to not feel awkward at work and you have the right to not feel weird so you know there there's that but and again i'm no hr expert but it's like i feel like we're both kind of assuming the same thing which is like once you you know what you can't un-push that button and it sounds like you don't want like you you would like this to stop you don't want this to affect his life and you know type of thing and yeah but i guess i don't want it to affect mine either okay that could go that could go both ways how is it well well let's see what part of that you can control mm-hmm you obviously could like you obviously could like control it but you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't control it you can't confront him which is not like a good option because then you're like that's that's more like i guess if you're gonna do that you could go to hr you could do more of the same which is to i you could pull back from the pleasantries or the the sense of obligation you feel like you have to respond to him as much as you do and you could see if he just like gets the hint you know like i don't know yeah she doesn't really she's not that interested like he may think that like i'll just win her over you know you know i'm weird but i'm charming you know and she just hasn't get it yet and i don't know like he could easily be not trying to court you or sleep with you or date you you know he could just be a guy who's just like i don't know i work with a person she's a human being she happens to be a woman but like i just making fucking conversation and and you aren't into it which is totally fine but like what you're what it doesn't sound like he's being nefarious yeah i guess i don't have like a relationship even honestly friendly with anyone at this office like i do with my team but it's just on like it's team's calls on because they're in another state and so as if it was like i was chit chatting with a bunch of people all the time or kind of felt like we were all hanging out and then this one person was talking to me i wouldn't like if it was my last company i wouldn't really attribute it to anything and maybe i've just become weird like because i don't have work in an office like that anymore than when someone approaches me i'm like oh weird like someone's talking to me because i'm not used to it anymore yeah i mean if i'm understanding you it sounds like the fact that you guys work in the same office is kind of like not necessarily a coincidence but has really nothing to do with your job and there's no actual reason for him to talk to you correct other than like you know human decency and like the way the world used to be which is like i don't work for a company i went to an office and you know it was a pretty big company and like i made friend like i made acquaintances with like the inventory lady you know it was like a 20 some year old guy i don't i think she was like i don't know but it is it is like i know it's kind of to your point you know it's just like we've kind of got more socially awkward and and and we've lost a bit of humanity when with this whole like work from home and not talking to people and yeah i guess it's like and this was kind of like what i was questioning in my head was like i and it maybe goes back to the original question like at what point do i stop justifying his socially awkwardness i'll keep feeling uncomfortable because oh he's just socially awkward and then also you know at what point like yeah i didn't flat out i expected him to maybe not even read between the lines like short answers kind of you let me ask you this do you feel unsafe no i i feel more on i feel uncomfortable like i won't at my office like the retail people saying they leave right at 5 p.m they're out the door so where i used to maybe if i was going to stay late that day like i make it a point like i don't want to be like there when it's just me and him but no i don't i don't feel unsafe but i don't know is that kind of the famous last words no no again i'm not i'm not an hr person and yeah i you know and i don't think you i'm pretty sure you're not supposed to feel uncomfortable either right it sounds like the struggle you're having right is you recognize you don't feel unsafe you do feel uncomfortable but you don't know if that discomfort is more of a you thing like are you just a cat and he's being a dog you know and you're just like and you're just like you would rather not and then you're weighing that against you know you'd rather it stop versus like how much am i gonna fuck up this guy's life just because i'm a cat and he's a dog yeah and and the moral weight of of of your decision and you're and you're juggling all that and so i'm not here to tell you how to feel or what's right or wrong but it sounds to me that's what you're trying to process in in way yeah and again like what i'm hearing from your story and it seems to be in line with what your boyfriend kind of thinks is that like it sounds like it's just more of a you're a cat and he's a dog and it's just not you your ideal dynamic what if you just tried to not again with the assumption that you are really confident that you are safe yeah that's number one and and knowing that what if you tried not to overanalyze this read into it ruminate over it feeling i don't ignore him um not respond not feel any kind of pressure or guilt and then see if he just takes the hint but it sounds like and maybe maybe i'm wrong but like it sounds like you've again not your fault but like sounds like you've done you you respond just enough out of like i don't know politeness or whatever that it just it's he's he kind of you know it's it's i don't know again like he's bored at work and and it's become this whole thing of like i don't know this yeah and i think it's i also just need to get annoyed because i'm like you're constantly telling me like i know you're busy and i'm like then leave me the fuck alone like don't keep while you simultaneously are messaging me non-stop and i did not to your point those messages that when i got back from my trip i didn't respond to and then i haven't gotten a team's message since it is just those office pleasantries which i have gone into my office a lot less which i'm not a remote worker so i like i should be at my office probably now and i'm not um so it's that's not a solution either i could go to a different office if i wanted to we have different like retail areas i can work out of but i also don't think it's fair that i like uproot my like work life because of it i don't think the solution is to not go to the workplace that you should or need to go to i mean i used to like thinking about the same job that i were talking like there are people there's this guy on my team he just annoyed the fuck out of me because i just found him to be obnoxious and he was a guy who later in life got really into running and i guess when he was younger he he struggled with health and weight and things like that healthy would good for him but he was like so fucking hardcore he would like you know boxes lunches and it was like smelling meetings and and he also referred to himself as an athlete and he just took himself very seriously and honestly it made it it i don't want to say it made me uncomfortable but it affected me like he viscerally bothered me because he was so fucking obnoxious um and i just you know mm-hmm i i'm just curious like when you hear me kind of jokingly tell that story is it more like he just bothers you because you're you're just different people and he can't take a hint and this guy just couldn't like take a hint that like you know you're not actually an athlete but i'm glad that you run you know like it's great and and you know and he was you know like and people you know like for for me to think someone's condescending it took it takes a lot but you know what i'm saying like what do you think it's more uh that's a good point i i think it's a good maybe mix because one of the things that i think is really important is that you know you're not actually an athlete things that he was pushing was so he's basically some type of like advisor and was kind of like oh like i want to be your advisor too like so also simultaneously while trying to get me to use him as a vendor he was also trying to get me to use him from that aspect and he's telling me like oh like i already have all the other people like in the retail area and i'm just like no like i've been with the same advisor my whole life i'm no it sounds like you work with someone who's who's obnoxious to you? - Yeah. yeah yeah maybe that's the answer and you know i don't know no i definitely think he's obnoxious actually there's no doubt about that it's just a matter of what his intentions are but i guess also i don't care what his intentions are because it doesn't matter to me in the sense of like i don't want to be his friend i don't want to date him i don't want anything with a dynamic to change i just don't like that well i think is it i stressed yeah maybe it's me thing well i think his intentions matter when it comes to the question of like do you want to go to hr which is like if all this is about somehow some weird attempt at getting you on a date or or just to flirt with you so he feels like he can flirt with a lady then that that's fucking weird and maybe maybe you need to reach out to hr but if it's anything else and if he's just obnoxious and he's just kind of like you know just obnoxious about like you know i'm trying to and he's bored then i don't know do you want to go to hr for someone who's just kind of obnoxious no i mean it's exactly what you said with like once you push the button you can't un-push it i've managed enough people to know also like you know the moment i say something to somebody else like you're kind of required to report it like if it was my manager or something and so i guess at this point like i wouldn't say anything but at what point do you think i kind of am more justified to i know it's hard because well we don't know his intention so i guess at what point am i is it maybe like i think we don't know but i feel like you have a pretty good at what point should he know better if i'm if he's still reaching out or still doing this like small talk i mean some people are obnoxious their whole life and never know better and it's also a bit subjective i mean it sounds like this guy is probably fairly obnoxious to most people but again you are kind of describing yourself cat-like from one cat to another um yeah i have become like that's actually real now that i'm thinking about i feel like i used to be more of a dog and now i'm kind of a cat yeah and i just it sounds like it would really bother you if you found out that he had no ill intent and he was just kind of a lonely obnoxious guy who i don't know just wanted to feel like you know whatever advisor course he took you know he got some use out of or you know whatever yeah i guess i yeah and i guess it goes back to like i just i hate that and maybe it's just something that i this is part of human behavior and dynamics and work you know anything is i hate that i feel like i'm left with this like burden to carry and maybe that sounds so dramatic to say it that way but uh his awkwardness has now kind of become my burden even though i used to be much more social at my last office and i kind of made it a point to i guess be more cat-like and just to myself come and go and now i'm like how do i do this i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know how am i in this position the big question is is how much of this is a thing that you've chosen to ruminate over and it's honestly like annoying to you but weirdly has become something that you you know probably most of it especially at this point enjoy talking about and analyzing and you know and and and here we are talking about it and is it just like kind of that type of drama that we say annoys us but we if we're being honest like we talk about it all the time and how much when you're talking about it are you genuinely genuinely confused and stressed out where you just like you don't know what to do versus you're just kind of tired at least you say you're tired of talking about it or you're or you're just tired of being annoyed by this guy and how much of it is you choosing to like just not let it you know like kind of get over it just like not yeah not you know what if you just told yourself you work with michael scott and when you like i don't know if you watch the office you know yeah you know i feel like you when you start the office right michael is like truly obnoxious and maybe you know maybe should be fired because he's and then and then it ends with like oh michael scott is just a really beautiful man who just has some blind spots but boy god forbid i i would have called you know like it i got well god forbid i would have got michael scott in trouble yeah you know type of thing and and yeah do you you know it's you i wonder if maybe just try telling yourself again as long as you as long as you're confident you feel safe try you know gaslighting yourself i'm kidding when i say that but like telling yourself like listen he's just obnoxious and i i really don't care and it doesn't really bother me i mean certainly you know but i i just i'm not i'm not i don't have to i don't really care what he thinks or feels about me and i'm just not gonna worry about it and don't don't talk about with your girlfriend anymore almost like an ex that you're trying to get over and see if you just stop caring less and then ask yourself do you still want to call hr type of thing do you really feel uncomfortable yeah and i think you make a lot of really good points and i like i said it actually this conversation was completely different than i would thought i would in a good way because you know i didn't really also want to walk away with you being like that's terrible because then you're i mean i obviously don't want to say anything otherwise if i did then i would be honest call right now and i think the the ruminating part is i mean it's the biggest thing like i said i since i didn't respond to him a couple weeks ago it seems like things have reverted back to the way they were and now i'm just overthinking well what if it happens again and it could very well never happen again and if it does to your point then i just need to it probably will okay only because it's not he's you're describing a guy who's not particularly great at reading the room yeah yeah and it sounds like he's all it's going to require is a little distance and patient you know he's just like you know let's try again later i don't know like he's i don't think clearly he doesn't think that you're as offended by his existence as you actually are yeah and i can't remember exactly what you said earlier but something about with him with me bringing up that i had a boyfriend him just being like okay great and then moving on you make a good point with now i'm thinking and not overthinking too much but i feel like if he was kind of like he's he doesn't give off these like fuck boy vibes obviously to where oh i had a boyfriend he it was like a you know just because there's a goalie situation it seems like it was genuinely like that's irrelevant to me because i'm not trying to get with you so that's like that's how it sounds to me i think if a guy was being a fuck boy or just creepy he would have a hard time ignoring that information yeah or he would have found a way to bring it back up somehow no and this was it completely like he didn't acknowledge it one way or another which i don't know if it's a good means anything he didn't he didn't even try to compare himself to your boyfriend you know like in a way that he could have competed with somehow he was just like he just kept going about the people he knows there yeah it sounds like he's just fucking lonely at work and it's just like more like i don't know she's fucking here and and uh i don't know i feel like now i'm just mean shoot maybe i need to be more fresh i don't think you're mean i i do think society we have all turned into society cats in a way we have all yeah again we're obsessed with our boundaries and our personal space and our lived experience and our comforts and our feelings and it's like all all some all valid to a certain degree but there is the whole human experience of just like you know i don't know like the world doesn't revolve around us and and uh and yeah i don't know like there it sounds like there's a bit of a balance here but i agree i agree and i do think i am that me kind of being more kind of like cat like i've never even thought about that way but it's a very good way to say it and then also just knowing that i met my last my current boyfriend at my office my last job i'm overthinking it and then i'm getting like more upset at this man at my current job which like it's not his fault that i'm like ruminating overthinking things yeah i think trust your gut here as weird as that sounds to say because you acknowledge you're ruminating but i think there's a difference between trusting your gut and ruminating about your you know like trust your gut is kind of like oh do i feel safe i don't know i don't know i don't yeah am i okay i'm annoyed and like whatever you know and right now you're just like i feel this thing i feel a certain way about this guy which is like i would rather him not and then you've you have oh you have analyzed the situation with probably i mean i can only imagine the number of people have heard this conversation before you got to me and i think that should tell you something which is like because it sounds like your gut has told you an answer and maybe you didn't even like that answer so it was like you wanted to keep it that way and i think that's it sounds your gut is you kind of said your gut is you don't really want to call hr and you don't he doesn't make you feel unsafe and he's just kind of like a weird obnoxious guy who can't read the room yeah i think i get so in my head with the fact that like okay the fact that i've like walked by this person's office and i'm trying to like be on my phone or do something to like ignore him is kind of a me thing when i need to maybe just look at him as to your point like an annoying person in the office versus a creepy person in the office stop stop having to be on your phone and if he's like hey let's go ahead and call hr and he's like hey let's go ahead and call hr on you can be like hi and if he's like hey can i grab you like oh sorry i'm just i'm running to a call yeah yeah maybe like lean in more to that the cat person where you're just like when i really don't care what people think boy that's freedom and i i could really just be really aloof and that's going to result in some people like what a fucking jerk but for him let him think you're a jerk i don't you know it's you know what i'm saying yeah and he has acknowledged like oh i feel like i like you know talk with everyone at the building except except for you, like I know you the least and I'm like, well, I don't really, I responded and was like, I don't really talk with anyone at the building. Yeah, like in that situation, I would have given some real sarcastic, yeah, well, I'm not really a people person. So it's a me thing, but yeah, I'm glad your friends are there. You know what I'm saying? I just would have leaned in to that narrative. And I did try to do that with the, when he was bringing up like, oh, I have kind of, I'm the advisor for all these other people. And I said, well, I'm sorry, I can't help you get to a hundred percent, but that's great that you have who you have. Try to talk about this less. It's so funny. I hear you say that to so many people. And when you're listening, you're like, that's so easy to just stop thinking about it. And then when you're sitting here hearing it, you're like, I mean, it's so much easier to have been done as everyone knows. It is, but like the fact that I can say, I can only imagine how many people you've talked to before you got to me and you were just like, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, and then when you think about it in that context, you're like over what? You know, like someone is kind of fun to listen. It's, it's a, it's a fascinating little debate. You know, it's nuanced. We're not really sure, you know, it's kind of fun. Yeah. And I think you've had some fun with it. And as much as you've been annoyed to try to figure it out. It went, it did go. It's a little puzzle. I will. Yeah. And it did go from like a excitement, not excitement. Cause I want to say, I never felt flattered in the conversation, but yeah, it's drama. Yeah. I went just from like a, Oh my God, what do I do to them? Like, okay, I'm annoyed. Like I'm dealing with this work stuff. And now I'm like managing, I'm like managing your feelings. I don't know how to respond, but also I guess I shouldn't care about his feelings at all. So you are a human, you know? Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I think I, I, like I said, I appreciate that your advice was totally different than I thought it would be in a very, very good way because I think it's kind of what I needed to hear to stop ruminating about it and move on. And, you know, obviously if I talked to it, which I have like my girlfriends about it, we're all coming also from a girl's perspective where, and it's all just so drilled into us, especially in the corporate world where you watch all of these tutorials and all these things where it's like, like someone girl or boy said one thing to make you feel uncomfortable. You need to report it. And when I'm going through those, I'm sitting there like making fun of them thinking this is so bad. Our world's gone to this. Maybe that sounds bad, but just like, you know, just because your feelings are hurt, doesn't mean you're justified to like feel all the time. And now here, I am being the person like, I feel like I'm making fun of in the tutorial. Those tutorials can't be vague. You know, they have to be anyways, but you, you made up a, we got to go, but you made it like a point that I think is kind of put a light bulb. Is that like, there's a part of you like you, you know, we all want to be good people. You want to be considerate. And there's, I think there's a part of you that's annoyed that you're burdened with how you come across to him and how you, you might be making him feel, whether you're being rude to him, him or not. And that's annoying to you rightfully so. And you don't want to be burdened with like, you know what I'm saying? It's just like, which I'm imagining a lot of women feel that way, or it's just like, why am I being like, you know, like any type of, it's like why you're, I'm a bitch because I don't want to fucking like talk to you or be, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's that kind of, you know, that, which I'm sure from, from a women's standpoint. Yeah. I get it. You know, it's like, why it's like, you know, guys aren't called necessarily rude or asshole just because they're not always fucking polite. And I think that's the part that probably annoys, it sounds like annoys you the most about like having to deal with him. Yeah, it is. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Completely correct. And then, you know, uh, I guess there, there will probably be a variety of opinions of people listening to this, whether that's a justified reason to go to HR, but you know, um, I just need to stop ruminating over it. If then I guess I'll give you guys an update. If there is an update. Yeah. I would love, but yeah, if I either keep hearing from him forever, then I do end up, but I think if I just stop ruminating over it, that's what I need to do. And just, you know, he's lonely and let him do his thing and not let it affect me as much as I have. Sounds like your gut tells you that he might not be your person, but he's probably a pretty decent guy. Who's just not for you. Yeah. And he hasn't gotten the hint. Yeah. Not in a, not in a friendly cohort, not like, not for me in like any sense of the way, like relationship, friendship, even friendly coworker. Yeah. Like my coworker where like his existence just annoyed me, you know? Yeah. Okay. Well, I appreciate it. I'll let you know if anything, there is any update by all right. Thank you. All right. Take care. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. This is Jana Kramer from wind down with Jana Kramer. I had this moment the other day, where I thought, why am I waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life? I don't need a week off just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing. And so I went to resort past.com. There are hundreds of hotel resort pools, spas and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night. I booked a one day pass at the four seasons hotel in spa Nashville. And I'm like, wow, why am I just learning about resort pass? 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These premium gel pens feature curated colors designed to power your day blue for productivity, purple for creativity and pink for optimism. Go grab your pack of G2 boost today. Walmart G2 boost Hughes to power you. How's it going? All right. My name is Lauren. I'm 29. And my question is, is the problem in my relationship related to the relationship with my mom? Okay. Tell me about the problems you're having a relationship. And then tell me about the problems you've had with your mom. So me and my partner, we've been really in love for most of our relationship. However, he seems to be emotionally unavailable a lot of the time. Like when we try to have emotional conversations, he doesn't really know how to respond. Or things like that. And I don't know if it's something we should work through together, or if it's something that like my mom says I should find somebody else. And I really think that it's like worth fighting for and working through. But my mom has kind of had a really scarred past with her relationships. And I think it it's kind of bled into how she feels about my fiance. How long have you been with your fiance? Yes. And how long have you been together? We've been together for a while. Five years. And we had our son four years ago. You all have a kid together. Okay. And then we had our daughter eight months ago. So you have two kids together. You're engaged. Yes. Yes. That's important context. And your mom wants you to leave them. She wants certain behaviors. So like growing up, I was always like more of a sister than a daughter and would at a very young age help her. Like she would, you know, have really rough breakups and I would help her mend her heart through those and stuff like that. And my fiance doesn't really show any of those traits that previous partners have showed. But my mom is also just like really has a strong burning hatred for men. Okay. Your, your previous partners or her previous partners? Her previous partners. Okay. And so I feel like that leads her to believe that like every man is horrible and not worthy of any, any woman. Gotcha. Okay. Well, I think it's good that you know that. Assuming it's true. Sounds like you, you have a pretty good sense of it, but let's focus on your relationship. Like what, what is not happening that you would like to be changed? So I just would like to be able to express myself to him and then have like some feedback. Um, it seems like every time I'm like sitting with him through a tough conversation, I'm the only one talking. Can you give me like an example? Like if I'm going through something emotional, like I had a really tough postpartum with our son. Okay. And anytime that I tried to express those things to him and tried to go through like what I'm feeling, um, I felt like it was, it was being received, but it wasn't being like treated with care or love and I feel like it's just something he doesn't know how to do. I don't feel like it's something that he can't do. And I feel like my mom, when she comes into this is like always trying to say like, well, you don't want that. And a partner like, let's, let's table mom for a second. Let's just focus on, on him. It sounds like at times he's not as empathetic about your your feelings as you would like him to be would that summarize maybe how you feel about yeah your partner okay do you communicate that frustration to him at times outside of the moments and then what is his response to your frustrations he's always just kind of like stoic and quiet like he doesn't really he's always says his famous response is i don't know what to say every time and like i don't know what to do and i've always asked like are you willing to like go to therapy with me to like help us work through that together but it never happens what does he say does he say no or does he say sure and then it never happens he says yes but like he blames things like logistics like insurance and and like money and things like that and when he's like i don't know what to say like are you being like listen i i just like want you to does he at least acknowledge you know like yeah you know i'm sorry i could have or is it it sounds like he's not like um necessarily pushing back or disagreeing or defending and he's just more like yes no he that's exactly it that's exactly it and he's a wonderful guy so it's not about him you know what i mean it's just his way of responding so it sounds he's not much of it as a as words of affirmation like a love language for you yes yeah 100 so it sounds like maybe you guys are just struggling with that what what's the nicest thing he's ever said that's the tough part is like he's not good at that stuff like he doesn't that's what i i had said like even last night before bed i was like it's tough that like you don't even say like good night i love you and then in the morning you're not like good morning you just like wake up and go about your day and he's just and his response is i don't know what to say he's just like oh honey i do do those things so sometimes i do do that does he usually no not usually but he is capable of doing it he could just for the sake of peace more often not remind himself be like you know i'm just gonna say i love you i love you yes and i think that's the problem is i'm like you can't just like make yourself say at least i love i love you too okay what is he good at that makes you feel loved he's a wonderful father he's a wonderful like provider he helps my family and his family with anything and everything he's a great person other than that so he's a big acts of service guy absolutely yeah he'll do anything he'll cook dinner he's just a wonderful wonderful person it's just that one area that we can't seem to like navigate well together and it took me into a really dark place with our firstborn because of it just because i just wasn't ever hearing like i would sleep on the couch with our firstborn so that he could sleep well so he could go to work in the morning feeling rested and like i knew i didn't yeah i know i didn't have to do that but like i would and like i would all i wanted from him was just to be like thank you and i'm like i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna do it and thank you for like prioritizing my sleep so that i could you know be more rested so well him being an acts of service guy i i'm i'm imagining you express from time to time some gratitude about that yeah or or no oh absolutely daily like i want him to know i'm a words of affirmation so i give that to him does it make him feel good yeah like he'll like give me a kiss and like say you know you you know you're welcome and like give me a hug and stuff but and like you know listen like tonight my natalie was expressed some gratitude for how i've showed up recently and and you know and i'm not like you know you know and like there's a little bit of like it's kind of awkward almost and like i'm not a bit you know but i got it that goes such a long way like it does feel good like it i might not like cry and be like oh my god thank you i needed to hear that and you know it's like and there's almost a little like you know you don't even need to but like it does feel great you know just to hear it and he should be able to recognize that a little bit you know where it's just like just you know do it for me you know i know it's hard for you just do it for me i don't know listen it sounds like like like the good news is is you you you're not questioning him as your partner and as your father it sounds like he has some blind spots and with some love language and you know good news it sounds like you're not postpartum right now isn't so you don't have to you know it sucks that you were having to deal with that emotionally and that you had that disconnect with your partner at a time where you know your feelings were very unpredictable but sounds like now it's still a thing and and rightfully so like maybe you can just again i would just continually try to nudge him and and and and just say listen i could you just i would it would it be easier just to like give me the old attaboy once in a while in your way rather than me about it you know like just try to find a little common ground make it light little not so heavy then it sounds like maybe he could just give you a little bit more affirmation and i do think you can continually to gently nudge him with couples therapy when i was early postpartum last time like the video games was a big thing too and i think it kept him from like really being present to see like a lot of the things that i was doing and now that's like gotten a lot better but how do you think i should encourage him maybe to be like maybe we could step away from the video games and connect a little bit more because i think that's part of our problem is we just don't connect enough we like watch a show together at the end of the night i'll admit postpartum i've been able to play a lot of video games um that's awesome i encourage it i love i love that for him and like i do encourage it but well the thing yeah and so i know i hear you and now he definitely gets the for me um i really make it a point to make sure that like you know i drop uh you know like like like when i get my chores done i get to sneak in some video games but um i only bring it up because it's definitely like a fucking stress release for me and it's like it really just a lot and i think a lot of men uh play it for that reason which is to only say try not to associate the two i think you have the right to connect with him but the moment you're like can we play less video games so you can connect with me then you're competing with the video games and i feel like you could maybe try to not you know what i'm saying and it's just like yeah no that's helpful yeah you know and so i think you could just be like i i think keep bringing up that you want to listen i just like sometimes i just feel a little distant from you and i'm i mean i'm being annoying or whatever but can we just can we do something together and just talk about doing things together acknowledge that it's it's your you're something you would love him to do for you it's a favor you know i guess you obviously want him to be present and enjoy it but i guess that you know what i'm saying i wouldn't i wouldn't yeah don't lump them in the same basket no that makes complete sense and that's if the video game problem is a real problem and he's just like you know not you know not being helpful and and then have a problem with the video games but if it's yeah you you it just it will land probably a little bit better okay thank you that's my gut is my guess and as far as your mom goes you know you know the fact that you think that your mom just has a hatred towards men and i think it's important information for you to know and i just quite frankly i don't you know i don't think her opinion really matters when it comes to your relationship it's hard because she like plays the reason i wanted to bring her up is because she plays like a third party in our relationship a lot she wants to know a lot of huh don't let her that's fair i have had a really tough time forming boundaries with her like everyone in my family's afraid of her and i don't know why you're not so that's good i mean listen like it's always great to have her and she's always great to have help and and and you know a lot of parents are imperfect and i'm glad you have a relationship with your mom but what is important that you know as someone that you feel like has had a very complicated and difficult relationship with men to not let that you know and and she's going to be prone to want to project that onto you and that's how that's not helpful and if she's encouraged you know like you hey your relationship has some flaws every relationship does but sounds like overall you're like i'm i'm i love my my partner and i love what we've built together and and overall it's pretty solid and i definitely have some complaints and and i'd like you know but like you know i don't know how helpful it is for your mom who's had nothing but negative accounts for men to you know convince you to move on um from him like how is that going to make your life better like yeah how do i help like how do i help my partner through that because i think that that's hard for him when he like shows up to like do things for her all the time and like he's tried to prove to her that he's like a really stable person in my life and in her life too and like helps her so much but like then you she like says these things and he's like i mean you're giving him permission not to give a shit you know and then what i mean by that is it's like you know listen you say as your partner like i appreciate what you do you're a good man you know listen my mom she does you know explain i'm sure you have but like i'm sure you've explained to him how your mom it's not a she's just projecting what you don't want your your partner to do is to fight a winless battle your partner is not going to convince your mom that men are decent people yeah and he's like how do i continue to want to do things for her though whenever she's like saying you're doing it well he doesn't have a if he doesn't feel appreciated doesn't have to and if he's only doing it for her approval then maybe he can stop doing it if he's doing it to be a good partner to you because at the end of the day your mom's peace makes your life easier, then he's doing it for you you know yeah no that's valid and and just make it clear it's like i really like listen i i know my mom's a pain in the ass or whatever thank you for doing this favor for my mom because like her you know as much as she might be crazy knowing she's okay or you know it just makes our lives better but like give him the permission not to like do it for her approval and if he's only doing it for approval and you don't need him to do something then he doesn't don't he doesn't have to do it okay and then like with my kids as they're growing up like should i set a boundary with her to be like you don't talk about their dad this way or 100 because that's something i really worry oh my god a very firm boundary you won't be able to see my kids if you if you do that you know yeah okay because yeah she did that growing up with a lot of people and it was always just like heavy and like they were all good people it's just she's like just likes the drama maybe once in a while you just you know it sounds like you're able to stand up to your mom in ways that maybe other people aren't you could just say mom i get it i'm sorry you've had this i don't even need you to like my partner but you you can't disrespect him and you need to respect me and i choose to be with him and i you know and i'm you know and so you just you can't do that i really appreciate that so much because i always just like need reassured about her knowing that i'm not stepping on my mom's toes she is so important to me and i do admire how hard she worked growing up but it's it's hard whenever you can step on her i want her to respect me okay you know especially you know if she's sticking her feet out there i don't think you have to gentle parent your mom i needed to hear that thank you sounds like your mom has a hard time with people in relationships and so she's probably pretty reliant on her relationship with you yeah and she like she's jealous of his parents and that's another dynamic that's just hard to navigate she's got a lot to handle but like you you don't need your mom neither of you need your mom's approval and i don't think your mom's going anywhere and the more you let your mom think that she has influence over either of you the more power you give and the less you know and then the opposite is true too you know you just be like mom you know stop but i'm so bad about that too i just like let her kind of run the show all the time well yeah definitely try to work on that because it'll yeah let's try it out just try not tell yourself you don't care stand up to your mom and wait a couple days and realize nothing really changed okay okay either maybe she threw a temper tantrum or something she does that but i guess i need to work on not letting those affect me try to see her like you see your kid i'm serious you know you love your kid unconditionally i'm sure at times they're a pain in the ass i'm sure at times you can't you know you're just like i don't even know how to deal with this but like you know um but you're certainly not gonna let your kid walk all over you uh and you're gonna tell your kid no when you need to and you're not really worried about your kid not loving you because you know your kid needs you and i honestly think your mom's pretty much in the same boat that's wonderful advice thank you so much and if your mom disowns you and i'm wrong you know you can certainly try a different route but i think it'll be okay she definitely threatens things and that makes it a little bit difficult like i don't know like with with my kid well you know listen you probably could use a little break from your mom if she decided to not talk to you for a month that's kind of something my fiancee has brought up is like maybe because she has so much influence over me he's like you know i maybe like a little break wouldn't hurt but like i'm not telling you to do that but maybe i'm not telling you to do that but maybe i'm not telling you to do that but maybe like you know maybe like just try to distance yourself a little bit he wants to move he wants to move just well again yeah and so like you know and that and that comes down to your inability to maybe enforce some some healthy boundaries no one wants to you not talk to mom but she does make threats and not talk to you which are idle threats but threats nonetheless and so to your boyfriend's point if the worst thing that happens is she follows through with a threat which is to not talk to you for a period of time well the bonus is you guys get a little bit of a much-needed break she like doesn't threaten to like keep distance she actually like inserts herself more at that point so she'll like come to my house unannounced when like my fiancee's in his underwear and like she'll like i don't know she like kind of like she does more she doesn't pull back she like inserts her opinions even more and like calls me three times a day stop answering tells me that i'm punishing her but not answering yeah she'll be like you're punishing me by not answering well you know yeah i am mom yeah yeah okay correct i guess i need to just be stronger with that with that yeah yeah i don't know because then i'm like i don't want to punish you i'm sorry i love you i'm like a people pleaser sometimes you know like mom you're acting like you're you're not you know yeah she's kind of right and you are and that's okay yeah okay there are consequences the action that if your mom's not going to respect your wishes with your house and your family then there's usually consequences to not respecting someone's personal boundary i guess how do i go about that whenever she's like really the person i rely on to like watch my kids when i need to go somewhere like or do something that is obviously tricky um and it'd be obviously you know easy for me to say to find someone else but i'm sure there's a cost and a comfort i don't know just look at whatever the obvious alternatives are um i'm sure there are some alternatives i i might be not ideal but hopefully it doesn't come to that it's not going to be like i don't know i don't know i don't know sounds like in the short run you need to let your mom know that you are serious about enforcing your boundaries and she can't continue to weaponize your relationship with her against you and and if while you don't want to if she's not going to respect your partner or respect your boundaries there are going to be consequences which is you kind of pulling back and and limiting her access to you and your family even if that means having to like ask someone else to help with the kids yeah and i hardly ever do that because i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i hardly ever leave them with her like it's been like a year so like it's not even often so it's good it's fine it's just i feel bad because i want her to be able to be an active grandparent i want you know i i want my fiance and her to have a good relationship but if that's not going to happen that's not i guess not my fault i think it's still possible but i think what it's going to be required for you to have some some discipline uh with yourself about your mom and in the short run there might be some discomfort with this relationship and it might feel like in the short run it went backwards more than forwards but i do think there is a path forward but it requires your mom to just accept the new reality which is you're in charge i love that yeah i would love to be in charge for once that's entirely up to you you are an adult and you have everything that she has and all you want is a relationship with her she is right now acting like she wants much more than just a relationship she wants a say over your decisions there's probably an obvious answer to this too but i have one more like dynamic to it that's kind of annoying she still has me on a tracker on my phone and it bothers my partner so much he's like leave the tracker because she'll text me and be like what are you doing at the ice machine at 10 p.m and i'm like is this is this because you're sharing a location on your phone or like yeah it's on life 360 and we're a part of a family group but she's always said like if i leave the group she's got too much anxiety she just wants to know that i'm safe but then she'll use it and text me and be like what are you doing you know here at this time or what are you doing here and i'm like i'm 29 i don't think it's the end of the world that your mom wants you to feel safe but like again like without getting into the weeds it sounds like there are some clear examples that make you uncomfortable so you need to address that with your mom um and if you decide that it you know your mom you know again stop you got to let your mom's threats about her anxiety or her you know that's her problem and at the end of the day the the message to your mom is mom i you you need to demonstrate to me some self-control when it comes to like your opinions and attitude towards me and my partner and you're you know again she's not in charge she's not your she is not your parent in the way that she was your parent when you were a minor and she's having a hard time letting go of that and as a lot of parents do i like to think that i will um be uh self-aware and proactive when my children become adults but i imagine it will be difficult to um pull back from being the active parent that i am absolutely no and i understand that completely it's just been like 10 years since i've been an adult and i'm like trying to find these ways of like finding my independence so that we're not so i just feel like i've always been a part of her because i felt like i've kind of grown up with her and that's like tough to like try to find my own identity when she's despite all her her her you know misery from men you are the one bright you have any siblings is it just you yeah no it's my sister and i kind of she's 10 years younger than me so i helped raise her a lot and you and your sister are her like her only bright spot when it comes to you know so it makes a lot of sense why she's so probably a bit of an unhealthy attachment yeah yeah no i appreciate that you're in charge and i think that's the thing you need to focus on and you obviously have a lot of love for your mom so it's going to be difficult for you to enforce these boundaries so the best thing you can do is try to remind yourself that you're not being mean and vindictive and that's not in your it's not in your nature yeah and it's going to be a challenge for you to enforce these boundaries and you got to push yourself to enforce these boundaries without feeling guilty about it because it's it's it's no one's best interest for your mom to keep moving the way she's doing because the last thing you want is to actually affect your your marriage and your relationship or ultimately affect her relationship with her grandchildren you know like you gotta try to nip it in the bud before it really gets toxic yeah okay and then like with my partner like i'm not making problems that aren't there then just because my mom has got this past right like i'm just these are real problems that i can have and still work with him through like yeah because i'm worried that i'm being too hard on him because of the way that my mom has seen things maybe a little bit of both but like it sounds like there are areas in which you feel disconnected from your partner and there are areas which he's acknowledged he struggles with and you guys just have to find that common ground okay no i'm so grateful for your advice thank you so much all right anytime uh thanks for the call i watch your show all the time it's an amazing amazing show i listen to every episode you guys are the funniest well i appreciate you thanks for tuning in and uh congratulations you on on life and it sounds like overall you have a pretty good thing going and um you know keep focusing on that but yeah you uh you're not crazy for sure at all okay congratulations on your twins thank you and your beautiful wife and your older daughter i appreciate your family i appreciate you take care take care bye you