E1168 - Jax Taylor's Publicist & Breaking Up With Broke Men w/ Pattie Ehsaei

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You knew it was coming and it was like. Guys, please stay here. What's going on, everyone? Everybody, welcome back to another electric episode of The Vile Files. I'm your host, Nick. Joined by the household, we got the whole gang is here. Hey. Lots to get into. We're going to talk Married at First Sight. We have Patti Asai here, author of Never Date a Broke Dude. She's also watching Married at First Sight and is a big Bravo fan. So we're going to have some fun with Patti. Maybe we'll learn a little thing or two about finances and relationships. I think she's, you know, she's a financial expert. And, you know. And wrote a very fascinating book to give us some financial tips and tricks on how to, you know, what they say, the broom, the budget, the bed. And she's talking about the budget and the relationship. We also have Real Housewives of Orange County to dive into. And a lot is going on in the world of reality TV. Brittany Cartwright is finally speaking up on her ex, Jax Taylor, dating her former publicist. People compared it to Brittany dating Jax's friend. Is that, is that not that I'm. I'm in the business of defending Jax Taylor. But is that, is that like a tit for tat situation or. Well, Brittany never got a fake smart, smart water campaign out of that. So I don't know if it's the same. Yeah. And I'm also like, remember the rumors about them dating a year ago where I'm like, so how long has this been going on? Oh yeah. I don't think. You think it was before the pool? Yeah. I think it was before smart water. Also, how long has Brittany not been with Lori? That is my biggest question. And I'm pretty positive it was, if it wasn't last year, it was two years ago, but it was like Brittany was at her birthday. Where she like had a bunch of clients come out and like go stay at a house, filming podcasts, the whole thing. So I'm just like, you were closer to Brittany. Yeah. It wasn't like just a professional client relationship. This unfolding is literally fan fiction for me because it feels like justice is being served in the sense that like, I think it's fan fiction. So which part caught you up? The justice being served. Because, because look at what is happening. The way the internet is reacting. I'm like, y'all are being exposed. When somebody comes for. Oh, you mean like Jackson and Lori? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm like, I mean, of course it's horrible for Brittany, of course, but I'm like. Yeah. I thought you were, I thought you were like, you deserve this Brittany. No. Oh my God. I'm saying like the fact that this has been exposed and like, I don't, same with Brittany as she said in her statement, I don't wish bad on anybody, but I'm like, if you're going to cross somebody and hook up and be with their man and, and, and represent them like that to me is muddying the world. It's like the water, like they say, don't shit where you eat. That is like that parasite disease in all of your contaminated foods. I mean, I've, uh, I've known Lori since 2016. Um. Did you know she had it in her? That dog? She had that dog in her. You know, I, it depends because honestly I, I have to say, I'm like, I have like the most amazing people that I work with, but I have also encountered some of the weirdest. Oh yeah. I mean, there's a lot of great people. Of course. Of course. I mean, my team. crushes but like if especially the reality tv star the reality tv star always meets the the leeches first there's a lot of bad actors yeah yeah yeah yeah and they're the first ones to show up and knock on your door yeah but here's my question about this is it although we know that because it's drax taylor this smart water thing blew up in his face is it that bad of an idea to like pretend you have a brand deal just to see what would happen is that not kind of a goaded publicist move i don't if she hadn't slept with him i don't think it's a bad idea but i'm like i why don't you just call it a spec like why don't like why don't like the different like i think you need to clarify that it's not a paid partnership oh yeah it's only weird because it's jacks taylor yeah but is there any world in which a fan playing devil's advocate for the publicist you know potentially somebody here like who's just trying to get back like plotted this and sent the email and was like let's get jacks taylor and make him do a post like it's low-key so funny that somebody may have if he's telling the truth what if somebody really just tricked him into doing a fake ad yeah but like you everyone assumes that laurie has and laurie's not like just a publicist laurie like has made her living in this space for the past 10 years and what she's really good at is getting some of these people brand deals anyway everyone assumes that she's the one taking these photos and laurie you know she's the one taking these photos and laurie you know she's the one taking these photos she would know whether something there's no way she would do this deal without like calling up the brand that's what i would think i was like you have access to be able to reach out and contact and confirm or be like do you need anything like what jack's posted was from like a video ai form that was like you need to give two deliverables like he's just on a normal platform that anybody can sign up also does he seem like the type of person that would like always go through his manager because that's such a thing in the industry where like people who like get inbounds they don't bring it to their manager even if they're exclusive because they're maybe feeling greedy and they're like oh i can do this deal on my own i low-key feel that's crazy no people do it all the time it's like totally a thing and and it drives managers nuts but i could so fire your manager what's that fire your manager well jack's can't really do that right now he has to break up no i just mean in general like that yeah it's not that he would have any problem but i could see him being like oh like here's easy you know i'll just do this myself and not knowing that it's not but i don't know or or it's a fake campaign i don't know i just think it's really funny either way i like the screenshot that he posted though like literally just said two deliverables and a weird ai page where i'm just like i just think of that phone call he got on the valley that was about going to rehab or whatever and it was like the weird conversation of how things cost and it just sounded like somebody like a buddy called him up and was like hey man you could either come for the full time it'll be this much or you could break it up in two weeks and it was just like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know just like i don't think a rehab facility would talk like that but are we also exactly to your point are we also not talking about jack's taylor the man that tried to convince everybody that he was taking a hockey job in florida thank you like this is a serial liar this is like a note one of our one of america's most famous liars pathological pathological which is saying something i don't know the history that well but like were they all around each other when everybody was still together like because that i think that would be really bothersome to me is to like separate and then to know that there was kind of always that maybe connection in the background you know what i mean like were they like mutually were like the couples all friendly i guess at some point like do we know that part of their history i mean laurie's repped them for as long as i know so i don't really know when i'm just like but to your point where i'm like she was definitely around them while they were together yeah yeah and and i'm curious like vice versa was like i believe like a lot of people are from i've never met laurie's husband i believe a lot of people have okay yeah that would bother me so bad yeah i mean i think that's like kind of like the angel story though too where it's like oh somebody that i was friends with last touch the next thing you know they're dating like your ex or something and it's just like so were you thinking about it the whole time exactly give it enough time so it doesn't sting but it's still weird yeah you know yeah i mean i just the thing is i would truly not put anything on god's green earth past jax taylor but the thing about like nothing that jax taylor does surprises you right and so the idea that he would hook up with his former current publicist or his his ex wife's former like that's like oh if you if all you did was hear that story you'd be like oh okay but the fact that like we know britney and the you know obviously the fan base knows britney and and laurie to that extent i think if you follow this group closely enough and if you have been fans of this group closely enough again she's been so involved that like her name comes up i mean she is you know i think she's done podcasts in the in the past she is like she has made herself visible like you know what i'm saying like you no one knows who might i mean like a lot of people have teams in that like in the industry you know them but it's not like from a public facing standpoint they're they're they're in it right um yeah it's more like well would would laurie the question begs is like would laurie have done this with anyone who made themselves like had a showed an interest in her in terms of like some of the couples and you know only because it's like if you said yes to Jax Taylor if that was the person who and again I you know maybe maybe there's some mystery maybe maybe we all have been fooled for a decade we're behind closed doors Jax Taylor is a saint no I have a theory that just popped into my head my little tinfoil hat just came on but I'm just like okay Jax is Lori's client right and Jax got kicked off the valley or took a break or whatever hasn't really been in the public eye outside of like random you know blips on the radar for a headline I'm like do we think that like maybe this is like a ploy to get a it gives Brittany a better storyline for the valley I mean I think Lori would love nothing better to bring Jax back on she gets her 10% again I don't know I don't know like I don't think it's no big brain big brain PR relationship yeah like in the sense of like where PR becomes the PR relationship yeah well I mean listen they picked up cameras for Brittany Lori is no dummy that's what I'm saying but this this relationship choice makes no sense from even if from like a getting she's throwing it all away so to speak I don't know who do you if you're if you're if you're working with her right now you it raises some questions if you're like if you're like hey so what's going on here's the here's the rebuttal to your theory is that when Jax was posting he was saying that Brittany has directed con which is a lie but Brittany has directly contacted networks and brands in an effort to stop me from working and prevent me from getting opportunities affecting my ability to earn a living obviously a lie but if he's claiming that that wouldn't make sense in like a unified PR strategy to have I'm fighting like that I don't know that Brittany like in my mind where I'm like I don't think Brittany is involved in the like oh gives her a storyline that just popped into my head where it was like the connection yeah to bringing Jax back on and having this element of Lori the betrayal the whatever because all I know is they picked up cameras once the headline dropped where I'm like in actuality this storyline has nothing to do with the valley they're trying to like self-produce from the outside I shockingly think that Jax is leading this relationship I mean at this point they should do an interview yeah yeah it might help their case give the people what they want you know I mean they you're it's out you know you knew you knew if you were gonna do this it would be a major story you know you you didn't they didn't like these photos of them being caught were like in Mexico at a very public place they look like honestly paparazzi staged photos Lori certainly knows how to stage a paparazzi photo you know it just it doesn't look like an accident you know yeah and they weren't hiding it they weren't hiding it they weren't hiding it they weren't like they were you know Jax Taylor is a he's still well-known if you if you go to Mexico and any tourist like oh my god like you know what that's that's like going to the mall you know I mean you know what I'm saying like a vacation like a lot a lot of Mexico Vegas I think it's intentional yeah it's a lot of like middle America families on on you know Easter break or whatever there are the people who watch right Bravo you know like it's Easter here's my here's my question about this do we think Jax Taylor having a mustache has something to do with this I think no I think he fits right into the stereotype of men with a man with a mustache exactly do you guys think that's true do you think men with mustaches are red less trustworthy red flags it's just there's probably some truth to it because it's a bit of a costume I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know and it's unique well it used to be unique in nature a couple years ago and it has a little bit of a mustache is unique in nature well maybe not historically but I think they went out of vogue they definitely they went way out of vogue yeah like to the point where like it was like how did mustaches ever exist yeah and then they like came roaring back in a way that like I think made a lot of like men mysterious you know like complicated you know like why would you do that how could you pull it off he's a little troubled you know I need to fix him yeah and then it caught on and so I think a lot of guys started growing mustaches to like you know look more dangerous the only guy I've ever dated with the mustache cheated on me the whole time and he was hot and it was a great mustache I have a quick am I the asshole story oh okay I know you're all like yes I didn't say that out loud you neither were we thinking it I genuinely want to know okay okay I don't know I don't know if this is like in I I have this there's kind of this boutique II men store that I really like I've been shopping there for four years and they have some pretty nice articles of clothing and when I go there it's like it's a treat you know cuz it's expensive stuff you know and so I went and bought some pants and these are they were expensive I mean they're so expensive I'm embarrassed to say how much I spent on these pants okay I kind of like need to know how much I spent yeah I'm just curious what over under 200 over over under a thousand under okay okay I'm like bro I mean like you know it's all relative but like I you know listen I'm lucky enough that every once in a while I can treat myself but like you know the truth is a $60 pair of vintage jeans you can find out of like a rummage sale mm-hmm can look just as good and last just as long I got these jeans for $20 period and they look fantastic these were like you know raw denim like they're they're Japanese jeans you know I know exactly what jeans are talking about yeah yeah well and so the thought is it's like you know what I'm gonna treat myself and I'm gonna splurge but these are like high quality pants you know they're gonna be with me for a while and so I bought the pants love them and then like a like three days in the zipper broke yeah that's not okay yeah take them back right so and as you might expect this store being a very it's a boutique it's you know it's family-owned it's you know it's not like some big chain so it's a type of like you know they get a bunch of different brand brands all over the world so no doubt a store like this has a very strict return policy which I totally understand because like 22 year old Nick would have gone and into the store and been like oh my gosh I like spend more than I can afford and then you buy them and then you go to the event you're like you know what I think I'm just gonna take them back you know after you get like one wear and then you try to convince them that you didn't wear it like you know we've all right I would yes I've done this you know we've been there and so I get it they I no doubt a store like this has to deal with with that situation right and so they're you know it's like they're they don't do returns or exchanges you can do maybe store credit but it's like a whole thing and so but I'm the zipper broke yeah I can't wear the pants anymore yeah and and again like I don't if I was up to no good I don't know I don't know if that I try to break the zipper or did I I don't even know how one would break a zipper I have a question about the story when you went what did you do when the zipper broke were you trying to like take them back or get the zipper fix I just wanted a pair of pants that has a zipper on it okay so you're just trying to exchange with a pair of pants without a broken zip zipper yeah so so on Saturday the family we decided to try to get some brunch uh we tried you know now I need to get out of the house you know we have a we have a favorite brunch spot we go to that's usually pretty empty we can get in and out we love it we brought the twins we brought River we have a tight window obviously between feedings and things like that and this store is near this place so I'm like I'm just gonna there's no good time to have to deal with something like this because I'm already frustrated that I spent all this money on this pair of pants only for like days later the zipper to break and I'm thinking okay I could probably just take it to like a tailor and just probably get a zipper fix but I'm like I spent all this money on this pair of pants I just want to I want to get what I paid for you know so I walk into the store with a pair and and I got I got the family in the car I'm like not even I'm illegally parked you know I'm I'm thinking this is me like a quick thing like in and out like hey you know like there's a look at the pants I walk in and I'm like hey I get you know I bought these pair of pants like a couple weeks ago I you know I didn't bring the receipt or whatever like I clearly got it from here you know and they don't even look at the pants immediately it's like you can tell like they have this whole like return policy process where they like kind of get weird yeah and they're like well you clearly worn them so I don't really know if we can help you but and I'm like in our managers not here and I'm like wait guys just look at the pants like they're the zippers broken and they're like well you know I'm like I got my whole family in the car I really I'm leaving town soon can I just I just want a pair of pants that works I can't I don't really don't want to have to come back for this like you know cuz they're like we can't help you yeah cuz our managers on here there's like four employees like they're all adults like I I'm assuming they're all capable of assessing this pair of pants and being like yeah no for sure like the zippers broken right now a person helps me and she's like well let me go and call the manager okay all right I mean while like family's still in the car I'm like I'm panicking cuz I'm like oh my god like I'm sure everyone's crying at this point and then another employee is like looking at the pants I'm like yeah like so like that none of them like look at the zipper they're just like they're just like yeah you clearly wore them and I'm like and then it's our I'm sorry I'm talking to this guy I'm like hey do you guys just like not stand by your product like I again I just I just want to I he's like well I We just can't give store credit. I'm like, I don't want store credit. I don't want a return. I just want a pair of pants with a zipper. So like, honestly, if you have like, if you have somebody can fix a zipper, like by all means, but can I just leave here with a pair of pants I can wear? And it was like a pretty woman moment where I felt like they were, I was just like, I felt like they were treating me like I was trying to scam them, you know, like as if like, we know what you're doing. And I'm like, and I said to the guy, I'm like, cause I'm clearly getting frustrated. And I'm like, do you think I'm being difficult? And he's like, yes, that's kind of iconic. Not that you were in the wrong, but that's an iconic response. I mean, I was definitely at this point frustrated and I'm just like, can I just get some frustrated from the get go? Like when you like, I was frustrated the moment the first employee was like, we can't help you without even looking at the zipper. It was like, you wore these pants. We can't help you. End of story. Do you feel like from that point on, like, and not that it makes it right, but I'm just curious from that point on. Did you have like an attitude with them as well? Like 100%. Okay. Well, I think, okay. I definitely was like, but I've got, I have some thoughts. I have some thoughts. I know I would do in this situation. I'm definitely like triggered, you know, it awoke something in you. It's people not doing their job. My energy is high. No, it's not my job. Yeah. I don't know what their jobs are. I'm just like, I just want some help and I want them to look at the pants. Yeah. And it's no, you're trying to ask a question and people you're saying zipper and they're saying something. And I'm like, I'm like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm like, I just want a pair of pants. You're being gaslit right now. It feels like I'm being gaslit. Exactly. I'm so sorry. First off, I'm so sorry. I don't know. And I'm like, I said to the guy, I'm like, I just want a pair of pants with the working zipper. And he like points at the rack and goes, well, you're welcome to buy another pair of pants. This is some LA bullshit. This is awesome. I kind of like, I kind of get it though. Like, I kind of like it. And I kind of grabbed the pants and storm out. Cause like, they're like, we're not, you, we can't help you. I, um, and then I looked up who the owners were and DM them and they quickly got back to me. And then they have since kind of ghosted me. I kind of, I have some thoughts. I don't think you're the asshole. Right. I think that like there were multiple assholes is what was happening. And I'm one of them. You might be one of them, but not. What could I have done differently? Nothing. I want honest feedback. My, my context is like. Having worked a job where you're like so micromanaged and you're like, I literally can't help you. Our manager is literally the only person that has the authority to like do X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Yeah. There was a little bit of that, but I, I guess my frustration came with like, they didn't even look at the zipper. And I guess if that was the case, are they, are they like, I can't begin to assess their age. They were definitely all adults. They were definitely not like 19. Okay. I was gonna say, I feel like if they were like early 20s. I would have guessed mid to mid to late, mid to late. Yeah. I think there's like a part of me that's like, maybe, maybe they've been in a situation multiple times where they have people come in trying to return kind of what you were describing earlier. And if your initial reaction after their shutdown was then like, you're really ticked off and like annoyed. I could kind of see them kind of like group thinking and being like, honestly, fuck this guy. Like probably not 100%. He's a dick. He's a dick. We literally can't do anything unless our manager's here. So like, we're not going to go out of our way to help him. Absolutely. But it definitely wasn't like, they didn't look at the jeans. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, and it wasn't like, I, I, I would have loved, and maybe this is too much for me to ask some empathy where it was like, Hey, listen, man, we get it. Honestly. Like, I don't know why we're not allowed to do this, but like, it was, it was, you needed that. And I will give you that. It was like, you're scamming us. Like the, the, the man wouldn't like make eye contact with me as if like, I was like, I know you're bullshit, dude. Yeah. Like he was like the vibe he was giving me. And I'm like, I, did I break the zipper? Like what? Explain to me what I. You're in the right for your expectations. A thousand percent. Here's what I think about this situation. As someone who used to, I used to work at a Brooks Brothers, right? That's a secret thing about me. Oh, an outlet store in here before Brooks Brothers outlet. Thank you very much. Yeah. I think when you're not allowed to do something or you just, you're not allowed to do something, you just don't know how the return policy works. You say, I don't know. I'm sorry. Let me grab my manager. Let me call you. It's not going to be a fast thing. Like apologies. That would be normal, normal thing. This is a bougie ass annoying store, right? Their job is to be annoying. Yeah. You know that SNL skit? When you're shopping there, you feel kind of cool. You know, here's the thing. Here's the thing. No, it's like, everyone here, like they're all dorks. Like, like this is my true, this is my true 100% vulnerable, honest take on it. Everyone in this situation is dorky as hell. One, you're paying too much money for these things. Two, you're paying too much money for these pants. Who cares? I'm with two. Two, like, you know, you kind of did this to yourself by buying expensive pants and expecting people to like, not think that you, you know what I mean? It's like, they know that you're paying too much money for pants. So they know that you have the money to pay that. They're going to exploit you. They know you have money because you paid way too much money for pants. And now you're coming in being like, my zipper broke. Instead of, you can afford to go to a tailor and get them to fix the zipper. So they're like, bruh. And they can't afford it. And they're assholes. Yeah. And they can't afford the pants. And so they're mad at you. Yeah, they're mad at you. It's a class thing happening here. There's a class. And then they're also, and they have a, and they have a superiority complex because they're working at this annoying ass store. So they're going to be dicks to you because they can. Yeah. So everyone in this situation is just the asshole. Honestly, Mary just ate down with the whole story. And you should just go get the zipper fixed for like 20 bucks. That's what I would have done immediately. If I invested in a pair of pants. I think she's right. I think she's right. That was definitely an option, but it was like, come on, you can't like. I'm not saying. Nick, do you want to be happy? Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right? That's honestly the question here. Do you want to be happy? Do you want to be right? Yeah. Which, by the way, Nick, I would have raised the Better Business Bureau on them. No, I literally, no, when I was like, I, I, I like the tailor is closer to my house and she's a lovely lady who was like, oh, and I'm always, every time I walk, go into the tailor, she's like, it'll be four days. I'm like, what if I give you 50 bucks? Can you do it in an hour? She's like, of course, you know? Um, 50 bucks on top. Like, I'm like, can I have a working relationship with this woman? Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, I was like, what would Justin do? You know, in my heart, I'm a lawyer. I'm sorry. I would have said the same thing to Justin. I would have been like one. I can't believe you spent that much money on those pants too. If you're going to invest in them and go get them fixed. Were there more? But also this is a store that I've, I've, I've sung their praises. I'm always like, I love this store. I've told like stylists to go there. They always have like, you know, for red. Red carpet stuff I've done in the past. And it's just like, come on. No, it is. I believe that's the definition of a parasocial relationship. Oh, and I think that this, my hot take is like moving forward. Like keep that in the back of your mind. Yeah. Like, I don't know that you need to like, you know, come out and say their name, but spend your money elsewhere. If you're, you're a, a valid customer. I'm so sad because I love the fucking store. I know. I know. One question though is, was, uh, a, were there two questions were there more pairs of these pants in the store? They didn't even look. Did you? I, well, no, I mean, they, it's one of those stores where they have one pair of pants and then like, everything's in the back. Everything's in the back. So I didn't, I didn't go and look and I would have been like, cause that's what I was wondering. I was like, I would have just grabbed the other pair of pants and been like, see how the zippers on this one and how it's not on this. I think that was my frustrating part is they didn't even look at the zipper. And it was like, did I break the zipper? Like what? And again, the guy was just like, not my partner. That's not a problem. It's a great example of like how relationships work where sometimes you can't actually solve the issue, but a little empathy would go a long way. And also something. They could have thrown the boss under the, yeah, it's just like, no, it's crazy, man. I don't know why we do this. And it's just like. Oh, that's immediately what a, when I'm customer service mode, I'm immediately like, sorry, my boss is an asshole. You know what I mean? It's the easiest thing in the world to get someone to be nice to you, regardless of if it's true or not. I have no power. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think that like, do the expensive pants have something to do with it? And I would want to know. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what like Patty, someone who wrote a book about broke men, broke dudes and not dating them would feel about the story considering the bougie-ness of the story. Yes. Nice transition. Up next, we have our guest Patty Asai coming on the show to talk about finances and relationships. She's got a really thoughtful book, Never Date a Broke Dude. Catchy title. We love it. We love it. We love a catchy title. We're going to talk a little, uh, married at first sight and get to her insights on the do's and don'ts and relationships. Before we get to that, though, I, uh, speaking of trad wives, uh. I'm obsessed. I'm just obsessed with this whole conversation. I know. I'm, I'm, I'm glad I'm a part of it now for all the people. Welcome to the conversation. Everyone's saying welcome. Welcome, Nick. I don't know. Serendipitously, Anne Hathaway is coming out with a, a new movie about trad wives. Yes. Uh, uh, yesteryear is the book. A lot of people were mentioning the book yesteryear and it's like a modern woman, like she, she's embracing the trad wife and then she like goes, she's like lashes back in time to like the year 1800 or some shit is like the premise. That's how I understand it. She plays a trad wife influencer who gets sent back to the 1800s. I can't wait for this movie because A, I think it's going to be such a good movie and I think Anne Hathaway is the perfect casting and it's going to trigger so many people. Everyone's, it's going to be like, it's going to be the new odyssey or everyone's just going to, everyone's going to. The original, yeah. It's like who, who violated Zeus's law more, the Greeks with the Trojan horse or Anne Hathaway being a trad wife influencer. That's going to be the real question. It's going to be like, uh, they're going to be fighting over it. Over the, the, the themes of the movie. I can't wait. I'm locked in. It's going to be really great. see her eat down i know she's gonna oh my god the horrors of her expression she'll have it's gonna be some great acting honey but like i mean like i just think i think that's why i'm so fascinated about it because you said on tuesday i just think it's generally so silly because nally gave me a hard time because on my sub stack i you know my being a tread wife makes me feel masculine and i was obviously talking about the things i do and obviously in the essay i i talked about how like you know nally does so much and there's so much she does that like i can't even describe but in the one the parts that clipped it was like i do the laundry i do the cooking she doesn't she like she she does laundry uh yeah that's amazing she was like yeah thanks for the shout out uh no nally obviously does i mean i couldn't i i mean it's so much in our i i like there's so many things that goes on in like rivers like like the doctor's appointments and like the things that are necessary i guess to just be a parent i i'm clueless does that make sense like i just the things that just need to get done and the responsibility to get done and the responsibility of we need to do this for our kids and like just the basic like like the maternal instinct like the admin of our room like i'm you're lost lost wouldn't know thank god now he completely does all of that yeah i'm i'm in this new phase of my life okay that i'm actually really enjoying cooking and baking again and it has been years i know the travesty is she a trad wife in training i don't know and starts wiping up yeah she gets engaged starts wiping up yeah i mean it took a minute how do you sleep at night i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i'm scared of the grocery store so i was like i think if i want to eat clean i'm gonna have to start making it myself yeah i started off with like a starter loaf um a little french loaf and it turned out actually great which is surprising but i was like i was very frustrated baking it and then it's like once it comes out though and like everyone's like oh my god this is so good you're like wait this is what makes it all worth it did you post your video it is pending i'm editing it currently or the team is editing it i just airdropped some footage from baking it i think this is really giving me the courage to like step into my truth i attempted to make pasta last night uh from scratch everything made my own noodles made my own sauce yeah and it actually turned out phenomenal okay oh no i know and i'm so excited and uh connor a couple years ago was gifted a pasta whatever the little wheel thing to like make it thin okay i didn't have the patience to figure out how to put it together last night so i did everything with a rolling pin um wow yeah truly that is very traditional four noodles or was it like did i have what was it like four noodles that you made in it how many noodles did you have to make no it was like a long well there's a folding pattern so you have to fold inwards and then you slice along to make your like fettuccine is what essentially i made last night my mouth is watering pasta that's definitely on my bucket list it's honestly a lot easier than it looks um and it's just like let having the patience to like let dose it i want to learn oh it's so easy and did you film it i like filmed bits and pieces and i took photos of things i posted in my story but i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry it's just kind of like in case this doesn't turn out i don't want to sit here and be like totally step one step two step three and plus it's so annoying obviously you know as a content creator i'm like filming yourself doing anything which is why we're talking about the whole trad wife thing isn't real it's so exhausting and it makes everything take that much longer so it's like if i can snap a picture while doing it great if it turns out even better but like i'm just doing this for myself to see if i enjoy this fun if my fiance likes it then like hey maybe every like once a week or like we could start making pastas together i don't know i don't know i don't you know what's interesting with this whole trad wife conversation is like it really makes you realize how much cooking for others is such an intimate and sweet act and you know what i mean like it's so sweet to do you're actually so on point with that because i will say i've resisted cooking for the longest time just because i feel like there's too much going on it's too hot by the time i'm done cooking i'm either in a pissy mood i've gotten burnt i'm not hungry anymore so like all of the things where i'm like i'm so glad enjoy everyone else but i will say that i'm like yeah where it's like just cooking for my partner where i was like do i really want to make fucking pasta from scratch i know but i said i was going to do it yesterday he let me slide i should just do it and like as i was doing it it was just like one of those things where yeah like where it's like oh i'm making this with love for my partner and i really hope they're always like how does it taste you know they're like oh it's so good yeah you're like oh my god thank you yeah i was single i was just like i didn't throw some peanut butter on a piece of bread and call it dinner cooking was depressing yeah it was like i don't know as a single person like for me so this is why i love cooking i don't do it all the time i only do it when i want to um that's something i got from my mom she's like i'm only cooking if i want to um and oftentimes she wants to and there's something so like one of my favorite things to do on usually i'll do it on like a saturday afternoon i'll go get my groceries and i'll buy like flowers i'll buy like a bottle of wine and whatever i want to make for dinner and then usually on sunday night as i'm kind of like preparing to like get back in the week to sunday scaries blah blah whatever like i make myself a nice little dinner and i have bought myself flowers and i like have a little bit of wine and i'm like you know like i'm doing like i'm gonna do it for me self-care yeah it's self-care and it's like but also it's like a thing i deeply would love to do for someone else yeah it's also like romanticizing your life like yeah why the hell we should all be romanticizing our life i have to eat not honestly i don't drink at home anymore for years now i am like only a social drinker last night was the first time that i drank a bottle of wine and just like poured myself a glass like i was halfway through cooking but it's just like there's something that just like feels nice with having a glass of wine and like preparing a meal and just being like okay i'm in my flow zone yeah i think yeah this job has really made me think about like obviously we talk about relationships all the time and i've been single the entire time i've worked here and like i feel like like i do prioritize like having a relationship with myself it's good and i think it's beautiful and i was just thinking about that with this whole trad wife like i'm my own trad wife be your own trad wife be your own trad wife cook for yourself yeah for yourself well just from an emotional standpoint like if you're taking care of yourself you'll be ready when the right person shows up you know so regardless of the cooking and all that but if you're like caring for yourself and loving yourself then like you're doing all the right things to carry on well before we get to patty don't forget that valve house plus is ad free and available to you all and if you want to get more content of your favorite reality tv shows dive deep in the weeds and dissect relationships like jacks and laurie about all your favorite reality tv shows we get into the weeds on our reality recap deep dives we also have our pop extra episodes where we dive uh even deeper on your favorite pop culture topics and all the crazy things that are going on in today's world also your favorite updates on your favorite ethnic calls are available on your update special episodes so and in addition you can listen to justin and mary wax poetic and all the trials and tribulations of the gen z world out there we did talk about walt disney's potential frozen head in disney world so you know lots of conspiracy theories uh all right up next patty talks all things finances and relationships and we get into some meredith first sight and some orange county and all the above next most dog food brands don't really want you seeing how their food is made just food for dogs is the opposite they actually invite you in you can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients like chicken beef carrots and peas being prepared right in front of you it's real food made in real kitchens nothing is hidden behind labels and that kind of transparency says a lot nothing to hide everything to love go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50 off your first order your morning rituals can set the trajectory for your day optimize your morning routine and feel your mindset with the g2 boost collection from pilot powered by the science of color these premium gel pens feature curated colors designed to power your day blue for productivity purple for creativity and pink for optimism go grab your pack of g2 boost today walmart g2 boost hues to power you patty welcome to the show thank you for having me how are you i am well how are you i'm great well tired i'm a little tired yeah you look a little tired what's going on it's true we like the truth around here yeah twins yeah right you just had twins no i didn't my wife right you're right um nice good on you yeah yeah i love that yeah we're starting on the right track yeah we love to see it it's been great it's been a little tiresome uh river's also going through well she's she's getting older and she's in this really very always cute always adorable but like she is you know learning fast and she's speaking and she's like understanding but also like i i'm no child psychologist but i think like the two-year-old brain is highly emotional yes you know it's has a hard time processing we've taught river how to apologize which is great you know but now she does the thing where she just she'll like hit you and go i'm sorry she's just practicing she did as you asked and then she'll look at you exactly right like she knows better you know and but it's also uh i we need some kind of child's like i'll just to walk now and i threw this because it is i i imagine a lot of parents with a two-year-old's are struggling because it's like do i think you're old enough to know better but she's highly emotional she doesn't listen but it's really cute yeah it's a lot you know and when it was just river it was oh it was all cute but now when you have like twins and and river there are moments where nelly and i are looking at each other you're like you guys are all just annoying this is a lot what did i sign up for and when the twins cry It's like you, now you? Can't you just at the same time? Take turns. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, I'm great. How are you? I'm great. I'm happy to be here. We're happy to have you. Thanks. You have a fascinating book, Never Date a Broke Dude. Yeah. Love the title. I love the title. Where Were You in My 20s? Yeah. That's why I wrote it. Thank you. Because so many women say the same thing. It's like, where were you in my 20s? I wish I had known that. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get any pushback from this book? Like, is it like, you know? Yes. You did. I imagine. Because we were talking about Trad Wives on Tuesday. Yes. And a lot of people were like, welcome to the conversation. So I'm happy to be here because I wasn't really paying attention to it. But now I'm fascinated by it because there's just a lot of discourse. Like a lot of people have a lot of opinions about the roles of how to run a household. And it's just, yeah, it's, you know, as a lot of conversations online are silly. Yeah. I mean, I got a pushback, to be honest, even from my publishers, because they thought that the title. Was it sexist or something? Yeah, like that, you know, people would look at it and be like, oh, I don't want to have anything to do with this. But the subtitle is The Financial Freedom Playbook, right? So the title Never Date a Broke Dude is a catchy title. And there is a chapter about that. And I came up with it because I dated two broke men in my life, which caused me a lot. Thank you. God, it was horrible. You're lucky it's just two. These broke, dusty dudes. Like I just want after another, you know, I'm like, oh, my God. So I talk about that. That's a chapter in the book, but it's really about teaching women financial independence. That's that's the most important thing. And being broke is not about money. It's about being with someone that matches your ambition, drive, work ethic, commitment. All of that is important. It's not really about a dollar amount. Yes. It's like I'm blanking on her name, Carmela. Carmela, the new OC housewife. Yes. When she was talking about her mom told her to like it's easier to marry rich than a doctor. Yeah. Marry a doctor or something. She was just like, I'll never teach my daughters. That it's easier to make the money yourself. Absolutely. And I'm like, I agree with that so wholeheartedly. Yeah. Because if it's someone else's money, they always have control over your life. Yeah. That's the problem. My mom always told me, have your own money. She's like, it's OK to combine and do whatever. But like, always make sure that you have a way to provide for yourself no matter what. When a relationship starts, there's a financial disparity in the relationship when a man and a woman meet. Do you think there's a difference if the man has more money at the time they start dating versus the woman has the money? Well, I think it changes the dynamics in the relationship. So here's the thing when men are like, well, it doesn't matter because rich men have married broke women, you know, forever. And I'm like, yeah, but men lead with money. This is why a dude with money is happy with the gorgeous, you know, Russian who model who's like, you know, literally Russian model who is 30 years younger than him. He's bald. He's not good looking, but he's like, OK, I can provide a lifestyle for you. And I'm good with that. But when the woman makes more money, we really want to know, does this dude like us for us? Does he really love us? And if he doesn't, we are not good with him just wanting us for our money. You're not interested in taking him shopping. Yeah, exactly. But men are. Hey, you know, and that's how they win the girl. I think for me, if I were if the guy were broke, broke. No, I would not be interested. Right. If you said something earlier that I loved, it's more about ambition. Yep. Matching ambition. So like if somebody is on the on the up and up, if somebody is pouring into something, maybe they don't have like total financial freedom or there's like. Not super wealthy, but I'm like, but if I see the work ethic, that's not going to scare me away if somebody is not like uber rich or like or even makes the same amount of money as me. Like I'm like, OK, cool. As long as I see the work ethic and the ambition, I'm like, OK, I can work with this. That's what it's about. Otherwise, it's a turnoff. Totally. It's such a turnoff to like be this ambitious person and working your ass off. And then this dude is sitting on the sofa eating Cheetos, you know, like your penis goes limp immediately. I was going to say, I feel like there's there's there's something that goes hand in hand with like a man. That has no ambition, no job, but also like the love bombing. Yeah, because I feel like that's how it's like. That's how you got on my couch. That's all I have. It's like, oh, my God, I love you so much. Hey, he loves me so much. I guess I'll see you when I get home from work. That's the way it was for me. I'm like, oh, my God. So let me ask you this outside of of showing each other's bank accounts or salaries. How do you how do you identify a broke dude? Well, you identify a broke dude by seeing what patterns he has as far as how he spends money, for example. Right. So you will look at a guy. I dated a guy who like as soon as he got paid. Oh, we were living high. We'd go to the restaurants, you know, whatever. And then when the week went by, he didn't have any money. Tighten it up. He's tightening up. Right. Oh, we can't. Oh, I don't get paid until next week. I'm like, dude, you live in paycheck to paycheck. So you identify that and you talk to them. You talk about their ambitions. Hey, what do you what do you do today? Oh, I went to the gym and I play video games all day. Like that's that's pretty broke mentality. OK. And if they have a job. Depends on what kind of job. And are they good with the job? Are they just starting out like you were saying? Like if someone's just starting out, they're building something, they're building a company. They may not have a lot of money, but you see them working their ass off and have ambition. Would you agree? I've always thought that for the ladies out there, beware of men, especially in their 30s, who complain about their job. Yes. Yes. Because these men are victims. Anybody that's complaining about their job is a victim. It's like, OK, you don't like your job. Do something about it. Go to school, you know, learn a trade, do something different. You're sitting there complaining. No, that's victim mentality. Nobody wants that. I'm like, we can start businesses from our kitchen. So like figure it out. Exactly. No, absolutely. You can literally sit on your sofa and start a business. Literally. So, yeah. Yeah. Do you have any advice for broke dudes who are dating, who are ambitious, but they're just not rich yet? Yes, I do. I do have advice for them. So my advice is that if you're going to take a girl out, OK, first of all, you don't have to take them to the most expensive place, but take them to somewhere cool. Like, I remember this guy didn't have a lot of money that I was dating. He took me to this like hole in the wall Thai food place that I thought was really cool. It was an experience. It was fun. So it doesn't always have to be about money. But you also want to make sure that you let them know that you have bigger ambitions, bigger goals, that this isn't it for you. And I remember a guy telling me that I thought that was really sexy. He's like, look. I'm building a business. I'm going to be working, you know, 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day. I'm like, OK, that's hot. Obviously, there's certain careers that have various earning potential. Educators, obviously, are notoriously known for being great at their job and necessary in society and sadly, in many cases, don't make a lot of money. On Marriott at First Sight, we have what's the coach? Who's the coach? What's his name? Cameron. Cameron. Who like, you know, we know that a lot of basketball coaches can make millions, but it's like that's like the top half. Like 1% of 1%. And then there's a lot of people like Cameron, who's, you know, like division 1A, you know, like whatever, just not the upper echelon. And he's, you know, and he's now married to a woman who's like, I want my man to make at least $150,000. It seems like Cameron is a very like career focused, hardworking. It takes, I mean, to be a basketball coach is a, like it's more than a full time job. You really have to grind it out. So what do you think of that situation where? A young lady meets a man who is not making a ton of money, not making the amount of money that she kind of identifies as the goal salary, but there's potential there, you know, but you know, even Cameron, it may not happen. Like there are a finite amount of jobs out there for Cameron to make it rain, so to speak, if he wants to stay in coaching. Yeah. So let me tell you what bothered me about that entire situation the most with Michelle and Cameron is that the second that she decided that she liked him, she was like, oh, okay, money doesn't matter without asking any questions. So if you're in that type of situation, you need to ask certain questions like, okay, how much do you actually make? I don't know if she asked that. Maybe it was on camera. Right. But how much do you actually make? And what is the potential for you to make more? Do you want to make more? What does that look like? Does that, does that happen one year and five years and 10 years? Because then she can know, okay, if I am with this dude next year, maybe he's going to make $200,000 a year. Great. Or, oh, I have to, I have to make $200,000 a year. I have to wait 10 years. And in Michelle's situation, a lot of people like shame Michelle for, for asking that. And even Nikki for wanting to date someone that makes 250. And I'm like, why are you shaming these people? Because for example, Michelle, she's frozen her ex. She has to do IVF. That is not cheap. So she's going to marry some dude. He better be able to pitch in for the IVF or she may not even have children. So it's really important to make sure that she asks questions to make sure that her goals and the things that she wants in life isn't given up over love, which is bullshit. Do you have any thoughts on, cause it's like a, it's like a common thing you've seen online where it's just like, you'll, they'll ask, you know, often ladies, how much do you want your, your, your partner to make? And it's always like 150,000, 250,000. Most people just don't make that much money. You're, you're, you're, you're limiting your dating pool to like literally like 1% of the options out there. So is, and a lot of people will push back and be like, you have unrealistic expectations for, for dating because most people aren't lucky enough to make $250,000 a year. You know, it's just not, what do you say to that? Well, it depends on who's asking. If you're broke and your requirement is I want someone that makes 250 and that's just unrealistic, right? Because you haven't done it either. But if you're financially successful, if you are making 150,000, then I think it's valid to say, I want someone that makes 150,000. But like you were saying to your point about educators, I have no problem with marrying a professor, for example, who may not make that much money, but he or she is working. Right. Is active, is doing something, has goals, has ambitions. I think that's okay. So you just can't. limited to money only i'm curious i don't know if you have the answer to this but if there's a a high earning woman and she meets somebody who's maybe in a profession that's like obviously the work ethic has to be there it's career oriented i i think something like a maybe a professor i don't know i feel like some professors do make a lot of money but either that or like a firefighter or somebody who's like right firefighter you know like it's like a a great career but maybe they don't have the highest earning potential is is it difficult for two people in those situations to make something like that work because i'm thinking like from a female perspective like would that be hard like i i guess i don't i just don't know i don't know how it depends on what the expectations of the woman is okay so if she is okay with either dialing back her lifestyle because if you're used to vacationing at four seasons and you're with this guy either you have to pay for him to do that because he can't afford to do that or you're just not going to do that yeah so you really have to think through how much is this going to impact my lifestyle how important is my lifestyle because i won't be able to maintain it unless i'm paying for everything and then am i going to be okay doing that yeah and if you are then that's fine but make sure that you really are and you're not just saying you are because you have love goggles on and you just see this amazing thing about this guy and you're just giving up your dreams okay so i also have another question there was a lot of men what are your thoughts on that and like how can the conversation move forward in a sensitive manner i guess do or do you even prescribe to that notion uh i think men need to get over it seriously like get over it everything's like emasculating to them anything that doesn't pander to a guy's ego is considered emasculating and i think that's bullshit because we don't have those those same sensitivities when it comes to women so yeah i think men just need to get over that because i was thinking about that when you were talking about asking the question about how much somebody makes and i'm like i i feel like maybe societally i've been taught that that's almost like a taboo thing to do or that it's evasive for me to be like on a first date or couple dates and being like hey if this is going to continue that's a good question at what point yeah like at what point is it acceptable to have that conversation and is there a certain form of tact or something or is it better to just be direct and if that person gets offended it is what it is okay here's the point the point is when you think that this could be something serious if it's potentially something serious then you have the conversation and the way that you have the conversation is listen i see something long term with you do you see something long term with me yes we do okay great the number one reason the relationships end is money yep okay so really yes that is the number one reason not cheating not because somebody got tired not because somebody got bored it's money i didn't know that yeah and then this is why these dating shows don't work because if you see like married at first sight they match for everything okay attachment style values right what you like to eat what you like to do they never talk about money the number one indicator for divorce right interesting so you have that conversation you say listen we're going to be serious we need to also be naked as far as our finances we need to be financially intimate and then i have seven questions that every person should ask happy to talk about do they do it naked it'd be cool that'd be fun yeah you strip down but here's the thing you open up your bank account you're fully naked you're like i would and that's so hot i would right answer to these seven questions is an article of clothing yes exactly i was gonna say honestly though if you start with being naked and then the conversation goes bad then you're just sitting there naked like oh my god yeah let me put my clothes back on oh that's what your bank account looks like yeah yeah but you have to ask yeah yeah all right here we go number one okay what what are your financial goals so you're asking them do you want to buy a house because i want to buy a house maybe they don't have the same financial goals as you do that's a great okay yeah you have to make sure that they align okay number two what is your debt to income ratio oh yes i that that is the one that scares me okay but not for me but first of all the question is i think it's a it's a hidden you can hide that like when you're dating somebody they can take you on extra dates whatever but it's like you might have twenty thousand dollars in credit card debt absolutely that's terrifying absolutely and and that is what i'm saying is that the income ratio is your total debt payments divided by your monthly gross income if that is over 43 they're about to be broke literally they're about to be broke number three what is your credit score you can't even rent a fucking apartment without a good credit score period right so you need to know what is it and if you're if you're going to buy a house with this fool and his credit score is bad you have to pay five points more on your mortgage than if his credit was good or if you want to buy a car whatever so and and for the people who don't know actually impact is if let's say you're buying in this market fuck let's say you're buying a half a million dollar house what would five points of interest rate cost you over say 10 years that would be 125 000 yeah that's crazy about that much yeah more and that's based on your credit in addition and that's just that's not you paying towards the house that's just that's just money that goes to the bank that's just awful yeah that's just like bonus yeah yeah yeah that's why i asked okay okay number four right what are your spending habits and that includes how much money do you make are you a saver are you a spender hey you make this much money okay do you have a savings account do you have an emergency fund are you investing what does that look like because you have to make sure that it aligns with what you're doing all right number five how are we structuring the finances in the marriage so do we have joint accounts do we have separate accounts do we have separate counts in the one joint account for the how are we dividing everything 50 50 how do we expect that number six what is your philosophy around children and money are they going to go to private school are they going to go to public school i can't tell you how many couples who sit across the table from me they're like i never agreed for a private school now i have to pay for they don't even think about that right are kids gonna work pay for the college how's that gonna work and lastly is do we have to support anybody else because any yeah any mama's boy persian dude is going to want to support his mama right and you need to know if i want to support my aunt i want to support this do we have to support anybody else financially in this marriage those are great questions great questions i know you said i know what if you're digmatized do you have a chapter on that yes it's it's it's really it really talks about how those love goggles fade that you you cannot be in love with somebody in the beginning and make all your decisions based on that it just fades after a while obviously everyone's circumstances are different and if there's one person who makes buku bucks and any other person doesn't it might look different but generally speaking to like the average group of people is there a system that you recommend like do you think people should just combine or should people pay into an account i think that everyone should have their own bank account that their paycheck goes into okay and then if you want you can have a joint account and then you can have a joint account and then you can have a joint account that you use for household expenses and the way you decide how much each person contributes is each person contributes the same percentage of their income so one person could be making a lot more than the other but since you're contributing the same percentage it makes it a lot more i love that that makes so much sense yeah what advice do you have for women in their 20s not to get serious but then it's like you almost like learn these hard lessons because two years in at 22 you're like i'm 24 maybe we'll get married right what advice do you have for women specifically in the dating world like what should they be holding on to themselves financially before like that that should stay their own before getting into a relationship well you should never get married unless you can support yourself independently yourself okay period no like you should be able to have money for yourself being able to support yourself because if that doesn't happen you're always going to go into a relationship hoping that this person is going to give you some money and that's going to be a factor in your decision as to whether you like this individual or not right so you should have your own money you should be able to support yourself you should have a savings you should have investment accounts and you should have an emergency fund these are all the things that every person in their 20s needs to have before you even think about getting into a relationship and getting married what if somebody's because i know at certain points in my 20s i was broke there were times when i had money there were times where i was broke but i was still dating if somebody's in the place where they're just like no i'm not going to get married i'm going to get married not making a lot of money and they don't have an investment account they don't have savings would you say like they shouldn't be dating at all until they get that in check or should they continue dating and just have that as a goal to start setting themselves up financially so that when they get married they'll have that i think dating is okay as long as you understand that you are not ready to get married okay unless you have all of those things like i said you really are not on solid ground so you're not ready to get married so it's okay if you are there any loopholes and i guess what i mean by that is you're not ready to get married you're not ready to get that is like this is all great advice i imagine a lot of people listening to it kind of to your question it's just like well what like i can't get married or i can't like i can't really get in a committed relationship are there situations where let's say a couple gets together the woman is making more money than the man he might have ambitions and dreams and all these things but is there a way that a couple can you know figure out you know the role they play getting in the the trad wife stuff, right? Like the trope being like, oh, well, you know the trad wife like relationship is like oh he has a lot of money i i will make sandwiches you know and then even steven you know and so let's say the woman makes a lot more money is there something a man could do in that relationship to do his part so to speak in a way that makes it feel like well hey i guess i'm making more of the money but i'm i'm as a man you know like i don't know maybe i'm mopping the floor you know like maybe i'm clean yes somebody's got to do that you know like does that work in those relationships i think i think so as long as the man is willing i think the problem is that men have been so brainwashed and inculcated to believe that if you do that you're not a man you're not masculine you're not this you're not that and it doesn't work but if a man is evolved i certainly think it's fine for him if the wife's going to go and work and they're like okay we really want someone to take care of our children and we don't want a nanny to be present it's okay if a man decides okay i'm gonna sit home i'm gonna do everything that a traditional wife would do and i'm okay with that right i don't think there's anything like that what do you think of the risks of trad wife because have you seen the trad wife um thing happening it yes maybe not creators yeah what do you what do you think about that oh my god it is the biggest brainwashing of women ever because what they're doing is they're putting this lifestyle out there and they're selling they're putting like a big bow on being powerful when they have zero power like you can't be powerful and have zero power in the relationship and they're putting their entire lives into somebody else's hands because when you don't work when you don't have your own income when you're constantly deferring to someone else you're not living for you they're making decisions for you in your life and the second that money runs out the second that relationship ends the second that they don't have you know that man providing for them they're fucked because what are they going to do at that point they don't have any skills they don't have any education they don't know how to do anything they can't even earn an income they can't even go rent an apartment in case something goes bad they can't pay for their cell phones and the number one reason that women stay in abusive relationships is not because they're in love with their abusers it's because they don't have the money to leave and then in a trad wife situation you don't have the money to leave and guess what he knows that and he understands that i think and this just made me think of something that i've been thinking about for a long time something i've always been super ambitious and never had the desire to be a stay-at-home mom entirely like i want to be a mom someday but i do think based on where you live certain opportunities or even just like your upbringing like some opportunities aren't available to you and i think people find themselves in situations like that but if you're listening to this and you are in a situation like that i think a really green flag from a guy if you do find yourself in a situation where you don't have money you don't have savings you don't have education is to be with somebody who encourages those things in you so like maybe you're starting a relationship with somebody and you don't have any of that but if the person you're with is like you should continue your education or like let's find a way for you to uh you know build your assets because i think obviously as a you know you as a provider like it's great for someone to just be like i want to pay for your whole lifestyle but also like it's great to encourage your partner to like develop themselves so some people obviously don't have the means but if you're if you're listening to this and you're like in that situation like look for those green flags in a partner a person who loves you wants to be your partner and you're like i want to be your partner and you're like yeah period so however that looks that means hey why why don't you start working why don't you build a skill or guess what i'm gonna i'm gonna give you your own account and i'm gonna fund that every month so you have money for yourself so you're not always worried about oh my gosh if something goes wrong what am i gonna do yeah so the person who loves you also wants you protected that's to my own horn okay let's hear it well but you know here we go when natalie and i met and we started dating there was a huge difference in our earning she had her own career yeah so that for me made me a lot like feel secure that she didn't need me even though like obviously when we started dating there was a huge difference right but as soon as we started dating i just and i didn't really think about this or it wasn't like something i was intentional about i have a huge belief in my wife and she i think is ultra talented and and so when we first started dating it was what are your dreams like what do you want to do you know and and it was me always encouraging her to be like you are capable of literally whatever you want to do and so like i've just put a lot of energy and effort in making sure that she fulfills her dreams and everything you know now she's a host of a netflix show she you know helps on the pod she's a big part of this show and now she has she has she has literally her own business right and and now she's like you know she definitely doesn't need me financially but yeah it was just more about like to that point just like i just believed in her and i i wanted her to think that if she wanted to she could become more financially independent even though in a relationship with me yeah she had that security but it wasn't about it wasn't like hey you can't count on me it wasn't like we never really talked about money it was more about you know if we do the thing that we were doing which is like we got married and we had kids and we did the whole family thing forget about all that i still wanted her to accomplish her individual goals and i was like i don't want to do that i don't want to do that i'm not going to do that i don't want to do that i don't want to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that even as my wife and even as a mother even to this day you know and we're lucky enough to have help yeah but for me it's just like the help is about like when you need a break or when you want to have freedom and when you want to get the fuck out of the house when you want to do whatever the fuck you want like that's what i want our help for and then whenever you have an ambition or a dream or something you want to pursue you know like i i want to encourage her to to do that that's amazing and you know to be honest you've always been very open-minded like that and you've never struck me as an insecure dusty dude and it's those insecure dusty dudes that don't want their significant others to succeed because they're threatened by that my goal is to be a trad wife oh perfect like i'm not hot enough i'm like i'm aging out you know i'm i'm trying to get my wife to be the primary breadwinner she's gonna upgrade you know you're you're run through that's a run-through guy i just i can i i'm really good at ironing you know and i find a lot of personal satisfaction in it oh did you watch um uh rhode island real housewives girl yes what did you think of the it was right rula and her husband with the is it a pizza shop or oh no no no that's a different relationship that's alicia that's alicia yes i don't know a lot of content around this oh okay i'm curious what your thoughts are on those conversations and their dynamic yeah so it was really ridiculous that she's been with this guy for nine years right and she doesn't have shit in her name and and she is afraid to ask that is the that is what tells you how brainwashed women are is that she helps him with the business right she puts it on fucking national television for everybody to see it she's built it out and she is afraid like she's literally trembling when she's asking him hey can i have a part of this business yeah right and then when she asks she asked for 10 percent 10 percent are you kidding i just put you on national television yeah that at least you should be giving me 40 hey i like the way she thinks well it's true it's so true she did i didn't even think about i'm not gonna put i'm i'm not gonna talk about the pizza business unless absolutely that's what she should have done but i realized that the reunion i thought it was a billy problem which is her husband or not husband fiance whatever it's actually an alicia problem because billy was like i asked her to sit down every month to go over the finances and she's like i'm just bored with that oh billy i'm just bored with that and that's the whole girl math that's the whole women aren't good with money that's the whole the man should really be the one handling the finances bullshit another housewife situation and i'm curious what you think jen padrante on orange county yeah obviously saw through her divorce and whatnot and her having no idea about finances to where she's immediately now in this new relationship with brian who is also supporting her entire family and it sounds like the ex-husband is not involved in the kids lives right and getting the child support all this stuff so it's like what when you see her situation like a how would you help her and like where do you think she went wrong i think she went wrong and that she never figured out how to make money on her own to support herself she went from one guy controlling her to another guy controlling her and she doesn't see it as control yet yet until some shit happens where she's going to be like oh my god if i don't do this he's not going to support me or my kids right and that's a really dangerous situation to put yourself in and your children yeah so she needed to take a beat have a life of your own and she needed to have a life of your own you're getting some money i'm sure decent money from the housewives she's been off for a few seasons now so learn how to support yourself get on your feet and then when you're whole then you can be with some dude that you know you guys can build something together but she's she's literally one bad argument away from her entire life falling apart yeah because they were talking uh about her sons and whatnot and ryan was trying to give advice about like the needing connection with the dad and it was just like she didn't want to hear it but then she was like i know you're going to get fed up too because this is going to be a lot of fun and i'm going to this is a lot on you but it was like it's weird how she somehow like paints herself as the victim where it's like in the same sense where the situation is ryan is literally telling you that like yeah this is a lot I didn't sign up to father all of your ex-husband's kids you know so I am I'm just I'm it's sad watching it but I'm just like I think it's just such a good example of like because I thought all the women went really hard on her her first season talking about her finances which is also kind of humiliating yeah it really is but at the same time I'm like when you're a victim of your circumstances in the sense of not knowing any better but I'm like at some point you have to learn from your mistakes so hopefully she'll like start a business or something but it's the victim mentality it's easier to be a victim than to get a job right well damn it really is what are your thoughts on um Amanda and Kyle from Summer House I'm not sure if you saw oh yeah they didn't get a prenup and oh yeah what are your thoughts on I guess prenups in general in that situation uh prenups are 100 necessary do you have one yes yeah okay good yeah okay I feel like everyone should have one every single person correct me if I'm wrong but I think most people don't realize is everyone who gets married signs a prenup and what I mean by that well because every state that you get married in has its own marriage laws and if you don't do your own individual prenup the prenup that you basically sign is the one that the state has basically already come up with yes and it's all a prenup is is saying well we're not going to rely on whatever state we're in we're going to come up with our own agreement agreement yes based on our every situation is is unique absolutely because if you don't if you don't have a prenup it's not just the state law but it's the judge in front of you that has unresolved issues is going to decide who's going to get what right wow I never thought about that yeah it's not just yeah it's the state laws obviously but it's really up to the judge to determine that and you don't know who you're going to get across from you in in what lawyers you can afford at that point absolutely yeah and this is why prenup is really important but the most important thing about a prenup that people don't understand especially women okay is that you don't have a static prenup do you guys know what that is okay so here's what a static prenup means you take a snapshot of what he or she whatever has at a certain time before you get married and then that is what you will get so for example I did a video about Kevin Costner's wife he before he blew up now he's worth 400 million dollars it said in their prenup that she was going to get 1.4 million dollars that was it because back then he didn't have that much money and 1.4 million dollars compared to what he had back then was amazing right 20 years later she's raised all the kids she's helped him build this an empire he's not going to be able to do it without her right 20 years later they get a divorce and guess what she gets 1.4 million dollars is that what happened yes and she she was trying to fight it now I don't know how what happened but that happened with Lisa Hochstein too from Miami yeah is that so she signed a static prenup and is there another type of prenup or they're all static yes so no in in your prenup the prenup has to grow when he grows or she grows okay so it says if your income grows so does what I get yeah if if you're a founder for example if you sell a company I get a piece of that for every child I have I get this much more if we are in this marriage for 10 years the prenup expires it has there has to be escalation clauses yeah things like that in the prenup so you're not stuck you know supporting some dude for 25 years in his damn career on your free labor and then next thing you know you're getting you know the little crumbs that he had when you first got married that's bullshit clauses for everything isn't there like a lot like in the sense of like oh if they cheat then it's like nope I get half and you pay for the child support or like you know what I mean where I'm like yes I do think it's so important to have those types of My question to you, what's the difference between a prenup and a postnup? Obviously, besides the before and after, but like, does a postnup protect you in the same way that a prenup would? Yeah, so postnup does protect you. So if you don't have a prenup, you can get a postnup and say, this is the way that we're deciding that the assets are going to be divided in case something happens. Is a postnup like an agreement that a couple comes up with like after they got married, that they both decide to sit down and say, for whatever reason? Yep, it's after marriage. And you can still, you can have a prenup and then have a postnup, which is either you can amend your prenup if it's static or something happened, whatever, or you can have a postnup and say, OK, this is going to be instead of the prenup, the prenup's gone. This is the way we're going to divide our assets now. That's great information. Yeah. Even if somebody doesn't have a lot of assets like at either side, should they still get a prenup in your opinion? Well, your prenup really protects the assets that you have going into the marriage. OK. But you can say going into the marriage, whatever we earn is ours, right, is our own or how we are going to divide property. If we were to buy a property, this is what it's going to look like. OK. So you can you can set future goals. OK, cool. But how does that work? Like, for example, like so two people, they come in, they don't have a lot of assets or money, but like maybe, you know, one of them has a big like business plan and it's, you know, hasn't popped yet, but they pretty sure it's going to pop. But to your point, like. Like, you know, for for me, like the way I look at it, it's just like, you know, ours was like very simple because, again, when we first met, there was more financial disparity in our relationship. But again, like I've talked about, like my life in every measurable way is better with now, you know, like I just came up, dude. Yeah. Yeah. But she's been a big part of it. No, I couldn't have done it without her. You know, so like it's easy for me to be like, yeah, no, for sure. Like, you know, we've we done we've we did this together. Absolutely. But yeah. Wouldn't that just fall under like wouldn't she or he get like be able to entitled to share that? Yes. And you can dictate that in the prenup. Yeah. You can say either my my business about to blow up and I'm not going to give you shit or my business about to blow up and you're going to help me get through this. So once it does, you'll get X amount of dollars. Like for Tom and Ariana from Vanderpump Rules and how they bought that house together. Yeah. Not married. And then broke up. Huge mistake. Like. Yeah. What would be the if somebody who's not married wants to, like, live with somebody and get a home together? Just don't. I mean, I my sister did this. She she bought a house with her then fiance. OK. I mean, it's like. Yeah. You never you never basically like getting your financially married at that point. You're financially tied to this person no matter what. And if the relationship ends, you are you are financially connected to this house. And yes. They bought the house like before like the 2008 housing crisis. It was literally about the house market crashed. Worst case scenario. Literally worst case scenario. And then she found out he had a gambling problem, you know, and all that fun stuff. And it was like it was a nightmare for a few years, you know, and she was stuck dealing with this guy long after the relationship ended because they had a house together. The Ariana and, you know, it's like the worst thing you can do if you're not ready to marry someone, then you shouldn't be ready to buy a house with someone because like you are literally. Literally by all accounts, you're essentially married to this. No, you are. Because you're financially connected and you you have to you have to get a lawyer to get out of that situation. Right. And what's the difference between that and marriage? The biggest purchase you will ever make in your life. Typically your home. So do you want me to tell you how to do it? That's what I was going to say. Is there is there a smart way for two people to enter some sort of situation like that if they're not ready for marriage? So I will give you myself as an example. OK. OK. So I live with my fiance. I'm never getting married. OK. And he knows that it's we're just going to be. We're committed for the rest of our lives. OK. I love. So get that jewelry. Get that. I mean, yeah. So it's just what it is. You know, I don't want to be married. He knows that we're fine, but I want to buy a house and we were going to move in together. So this is what I did. I bought the house. The house is my name. OK. Not in his name. He doesn't own any part of it. However, we have an agreement that he's going to pay X amount of dollars into the home and whatever money he is adding to the home. If the house were to be sold, it would go in as equity for him. OK. Yeah. So if we were to sell the house tomorrow, I would get back the money that I put in for the down payment and the money that I've paid. And then there's a calculation of how much money have you put into this. I get my my money back and then whatever is left based on the percentage that he's contributed to the house. He gets that amount. Right. And that's a legal document. Love that. I like your. And it's what's so fascinating about it. It's like it's it's so. Kind of basic. It makes so much sense. And no one. Very few people do that. Yeah. And it's such a it's it's. They don't get fairly easy math. It's it's so easy. It literally is so easy. And people don't do it again because it's not romantic or scary. It's scary. God, I don't want to bring it up. What if he feels like this? What if it starts a fight? Oh, it's the whole thing. Yeah. And people are scared. And it's really crazy, too, because the idea is, you know, it's an uncomfortable conversation during that time. Especially if you, you know, you when you sign a prenup before you get married, it's like this kind of you're supposed to hire separate lawyers or you can hire like, yeah, you're just supposed to hire separate lawyers for sure, which is just weird. Why? Well, just the idea of it. But again, like the conversation is like, listen, of course, we don't plan on separating or getting divorced. We can't predict the future. Right. And if if if everything goes our way, this is a non-issue. We have nothing to worry about. If things go the way we hope and plan to go. But if it doesn't and we can't predict the future, then we we can both agree that we're going to want we're going to hate each other. And I can't I can't imagine a world of that happening. happens now but like let's just imagine a world where it doesn't go our way we're not gonna want to you know rely on the old like a handshake you know but i'll you know like people make these promises when they are about to get married when everything's good and the idea is well i would never do that to you i would never i would never leave you high and dry it's like well now you say that because you love me you you like you do you don't want to you know and so you just have to put on that fantasy hat of like what this is like it's not you like you have to imagine how you feel about your ex well you know the person you marry is not the person you divorce right that's one thing you have to know that person you divorce is not the same motherfucker that you marry so don't expect it to be yeah and if love is synonymous with hate then i'm just kind of like yeah that passion yes but it's the saddest thing when you watch people going through divorce especially when they've been together for long periods of time and you're just like how could you go from this to that but i'm like yeah when all of a sudden it's like the same relationship has changed yeah it's still love there but it's like i resent you now and i'm going to take every action to make you feel how terrible i feel right depending on what that other person did right i mean there are some marriages of course that were just like okay we grew apart right nobody cheated nobody's disgusting nobody's whatever and they can typically agree on things like that but when shit happens that is when things go wrong and people become completely different right what are your tips for when it does turn sour emotionally how can people financially in the best way possible create a healthy as healthy a divorce as they can the best way to create the healthiest divorce right is no no really is to be fair and put yourself in the other person's shoes i always say that put yourself in the other person's shoes be fair take the emotion out of it that's why it's so important just to have separate emotions and be fair and put yourself in the other person's shoes right take the emotion out of it because here's the problem when you go into a contentious divorce you are going to be paying so much in legal fees it's not even worth it to be contentious you're literally paying because you want to be an asshole and that is that's like you'd rather give money to a lawyer exactly than to your kids right you may have kids like my friend it took her three years to get a divorce hundreds of thousands of dollars that could have gone to their children right that could go for their children right that could go for their children education because he decided that he wanted to be an asshole yeah or she you know vice versa you got to take the emotion out of it right i think this is like a horrible way to think about it but somebody told me once when you are seriously considering dating somebody marrying somebody think about how they would be to divorce and i think that's so morbid and i said that to a boyfriend once i was like we need to think about how that would be and i'm like i know it would be really nice to you like i would be i'm super nice like i would be really really nice to you really nice to divorce you would be hell like you would you in the relationship you're kind of hell um but i i think that i think that it as morbid or as like horrible as that is i do think that that is really important because even in this discussion i'm like it's crazy to think about being on the other side of it and it's like that person's not gonna be nice and i was just talking to a girlfriend who got went through a divorce and even still she is now in a financially tough and he is constantly picking custody battles with her and she's like he's just doing it so that i have to lawyer up spend more money go to court go to court and i'm like even if you have all the details worked out i'm like somebody can make your life hell for 18 years if you have kids with them and it's like as horrible as that is i think it's important to be like how would this person treat me how do they treat other people when they have discrepancies with them like what is the like how would they approach me because that's what you're going to be dealing with the worst version of anybody ever makes is having children with the wrong person because you are tied to this jerk for the rest of your life whether you like it or not so true i was gonna say the whole like 18 years thing like no that's a lie no yeah you're right it's the rest of their life graduations i mean when they have kids i mean forever you are gonna see this motherfucker for the rest of your life it's like oh my god make sure that is the right person right that's why it's so hard i got my like i've thought about i'm like do i just like have a baby with somebody like do i just do this but it's like no you gotta i know i don't know i don't actually think that but i'm just getting to the point where i'm like i gotta figure it out and i kind of have that thought sometimes where i'm like dang like it's really you're really picking somebody to spend the rest of your life with even if you don't marry them absolutely when i was thinking what we were talking about where it was like uh how they react to hard questions and whatnot where it's like and you don't want to say oh i'm gonna put the house in my name because i don't want you to feel emasculated i don't want to start a fight but i'm like if these are the things that you're afraid to happen because you're being honest yes then this isn't the person for you absolutely 100 you know what i mean because somebody would be willing to have a conversation or yeah if they get offended they might like hey like give me a minute so i can process and come back but if somebody is gonna get mad at you or make your life harder because you wanted to protect yourself in a financial way but that's not saying i don't love you it's not saying i don't want to live with you for the rest of my life it's just saying hey if i put the house in my name if you leave you're still gonna be taken care of yeah but it's just one less headache and so for them to make it an even harder headache for you just to even have the conversation not your person it's very revealing would you say green flag couple dates she makes more money she's she's crushing it she's financially secure he's not for whatever reason okay green flag if he insists on still paying for the first like for the dates early on or does that not matter i think that okay i don't know if it's a green flag i think it's nice i think it's polite i think you know men feel like it shows more interest if they're paying and it shows you that he's not cheap i think that's important like you don't have to be like a baller just don't be cheap like i said like well that's what i mean i said i thought i thought of it more of a green flag where it's just like one let's say in this scenario he's just aware of her success and he is aware that she is financially more successful and he's not using that as an excuse to be like oh well you make more you should pay more it's just like i would take it as i'm not there yet but i i'm gonna bet on myself i believe in myself and yeah you make more than me but i still want to you know for all the conversations of yeah about this where it gets into like how a man feels about it does he feel like a man and that's always like this like excuse for men to complain about or feel a certain way about their partner making more money than them yeah but if he's able to demonstrate a sense of security in himself and a belief in himself yeah where even though she makes more than him he's still willing to like step up and you know not necessarily that not that it's his role to pay for more but like he wants to do that and he's still not afraid of spending his money and he's not like count you know he's not being like well you know like counting the money so to speak yeah that is that is definitely a green flag if he's doing it for the reasons that you're saying that he's doing it right yeah if it's for those reasons it's absolutely a green flag and it's nice and it's considerate you know and it's just nice and considerate like you always want to be with someone that's nice and considerate like in the beginning i don't mind splitting splitting dates i really don't and so many women like i'm not gonna do that girl i i got you know i got done up and i got this and i got that you better pay and i'm just like why because at that point it's just an exchange money is just an exchange of energy that is all it is nothing is free so you so you got to pay my for my dinner yeah i always loved the insincere grab for the purse oh yeah i just want to see you i just want to see you pretend you know i'm like oh should i yeah and i'm like i'm like babe that's all i needed i got this honestly like i know that it's the gesture because yeah i and i'm and if they let me i will i'll put my card down but i will take note of it but i'm also like 100 gonna offer yeah to pay and but i think it's really nice in the first couple of dates when a guy does pay yeah yeah you know i feel like if he would let me pay like oh well that's what happens to me the whole thing yeah oh i do i actually don't have anything in here one of the guys that i talked about in my book he our first day we went to yamashiro right and and so the bill comes and then i go oh he's like okay literally slides the damn check across the table no yes you paid for the whole thing paid for the whole thing see you and then and then it gets worse the next day so in my mind i'm like well that's okay you know again we're trying to justify shit in our brain right because i was so desperate to be in a relationship so next day he's like oh do you want to go to the venice fair with me i'm like oh look how much he likes me yeah sure let's go we go to the fair the entire time he's talking about what i'm gonna buy him okay he was like i found a sugar mom oh my god and then we go to like the taco stand and i'm like he's first and foremost he's first and foremost he's first and foremost he's going to pay for this right so he puts in his order i put in my order and i look around and he's gone no way the taco stand is looking at me like bitch you gotta pay up like i i guess yeah oh my god that was it i was like are you fucking kidding me right now i would have left him at the fair yeah wait i have a i have a story then i'm curious how you guys feel about this so i went on a i went on the first day with a guy we got coffee he paid for the coffee and second day we went to to Getty Villa, if you don't know it, It's like, it's like a museum, lots of artwork, beautiful. It is like funded by, I don't know, taxes. I'm not sure. So he gets us our tickets. I'm like, cool, this is great. We show up and I'm like, you know what? Let me get parking because you got the tickets. So he's like, oh, that's so nice. So I pass my credit card over. We pay for parking. We go inside, enjoy the day. You send you a Venmo request. No, it's free. It's free to go to the Getty Villa. So the tickets are just reservations. It's not something you have to pay for. So he let me pay. I think it was $17 for parking, which I'm like, I got 17 bucks. It's fine. But I'm just like, it's the precedent of him letting me think he paid for tickets. It's a lie. He lied to you. It's a lie. That was a lie. That was a lie, period. Okay. That's how I felt. He's immediately lying to you. He's being deceptive. He's not just lying to you, but he's being deceptive. That's why I think a Venmo request for any man is an immediate. No. Yeah, for sure. Ghosted. Because he didn't want to. It's like he didn't want to have the conversation face to face about who's going to pay for what. But he wanted to have the very passive. Venmo. If I ever. I know. I feel like it's a thing in modern dating. A lot of women are getting Venmo requests from men. Or when they, this is like weird to say, but when girls like don't go home with the guy and then they send a Venmo request because they're like, well, I mean, I thought we were going to whatever. So they send the Venmo request. Well, they can. They can send all the damn Venmo requests they want. Declined. Guess what? That's just the guy who admits he pays for sex. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's all it is. But that's why women have to be careful, too, because I've actually heard women say, well, you know, I'm spending my time with him and I'm having sex with him and I'm doing all this. The least he can do is pay for my dinner. And it's just like, that's that's just prostitution. You know, that's the death of romance. Yeah, that's that's just what that is. So women really have to be careful about that. I had one more question. It kind of has to do with married at first sight, because during one of the expert sex sessions, the advice they gave Nikki and Sean, I don't know how you feel about them, but he said every fight comes back to closeness, power or respect. Do you believe money plays any of those roles in relationships? For sure. I mean, money is all of those things, really, if you if you think about it, like money is the reason that people can do things together, can feel comfortable going places, having fun. I mean, money is such an integral part of a relationship. So you need to add money in the equation. And they completely don't ever talk about it. That's what pisses me off on these stupid shows. They don't talk about money. Yeah. Right. Like I said, the number one reason that people get divorced money. Talk about it. I'm going home. I hate to say this, but I think Nikki and Sean's biggest problem is he's short. Yeah. And I know that was like a moment when she said she brought it up and like all the guys like had Sean's back. But he I hate to say it, but like he gives this kind of Napoleon complex where he. You know, he compensates. Yeah. He's because he clearly has a lot of confidence. Yeah. You know, and the more you get to know him, the more it reads like his confidence is a projection of his insecurity. Absolutely. Absolutely. So he's always trying to prove that he's confident rather than actually being confident. Yep. And always have to explain himself and be heard. And it's just like he's. Yeah. Yeah. And I hate to say it because I do think the short kings out there need, you know, they need love. They need love, too. And they deserve love. But like he he is. They're just. They're just insecure. That's the problem with short men. And I'm not saying all of them, because one of my best friends is actually a short dude. He says, yes, I am five five. But guess what? My personality is this. And he is the most confident person on the planet, honestly. And he truly is confident. But it's like people like him, like Sean. Yeah, he's he's not confident. So he overcompensates. And the second that she says something, you're right. Like he has to prove he has a one upper all the time. And she also does that to him, to be honest, because she's not really attracted to him. It's clear she's not attracted. No, it seems like she is. Yeah, it seems like she is like, OK, you you you gave me this guy. Yeah, I'm trying to make it work. Well, no, she looks like she's trying to not make it work. She looks like she's trying to, like, find her escape, find her escape out. That makes her look like the winner. And she made she said a line. She's like she made a comment that he's he just came here to look good and win public appeal, which that makes some sense. But she it seems like she's also. She's very fixated on making sure she's not the bad guy when she ultimately decides not to stay with them. Yeah, that relationship's not going to work. No. Yeah. Do you are there any relation between let's let's just go through the couples and decide which one's down. OK, OK. You can walk into any of their kitchens and see real human grade ingredients like chicken, beef, carrots and peas being prepared right in front of you. Nothing to hide. Everything to love. Go to just food for dogs dot com and get 50 percent off your first order. Optimize your morning routine and feel your mindset with the G2 boost collection from Pilot powered by the science of color. These premium gel pens. Feature curated colors designed to power your day blue for productivity, purple for creativity and pink for optimism. Go grab your pack of G2 boost today. Wal-Mart G2 boost hues to power you. So let's start with with Sean and Nikki. We believe that they are an absolute not dumpster fire of a relationship. Not going to work now. How about Adam and Marissa? No. Oh, you don't. I don't think so. Why? No, because they're so superficial. They haven't had one serious conversation about anything. Their lifestyles are very different. You see her home and what it looks like. He's still like living in some dump little house by the water. All you ever talk about is jet skis and like his obsession with jet skis. Crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. That's all he ever talks about. And listen, as a young man, I thought owning a jet ski would. Just maybe the coolest thing ever. You know, like we I certainly loved being on the water. I always had an affinity to the lake life. Yeah. Super cool. When I was lucky enough to buy the lake house, I bought a very cheap jet ski old. It's, you know, I'll take it for a spin every now and then. Not every day. But like the way he's just like we get to like I is it it's not that fun. I mean, it's not to build your life and personality around it. Oh, my God. Just obsessed with jet skis. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I want to know where that came from. Well, it's the way he's projecting his wealth and like, look how cool I am. I'm really curious how much money he actually has. I know, because he says I make a lot of money. I'm like, what's a lot of money, dude? Well, then it says his job as a data analyst, which is vague. Right. So like, who knows what that means? But I. But also waterfront property is expensive. So I kind of had that. Does he own that or does he rent that? That's a good question. If he owns it, then I'm like, OK, he's got to have some kind of financial, you know, stability. But it is. It is a bit of a dump. It's a total dump. Why would you? If you have money, why would you live there? Fix it up. It's like, are you kidding? Well, I would take a dump on a lake. OK, so they're not going to last. I don't think they're going to last. Even if they say yes, they're still not going to last. We get it. We get it. We got it. If I poop on the lawn, it's mine. No one else is going to take it. Which one of these couples has to do with poop? I'm trying to do a transition. Well, how about that? This isn't. But Nick and Courtney's trying to find something wrong with him. Oh, my God. She can't stand. Two of the maybe most insecure people I've ever met. Yeah. And for different reasons. I have a hard time figuring out Nick because obviously he's been on every reality show. We share names. I, too, have been on multiple reality TV shows. I am self-conscious of the of the labels and assumptions and tropes people make about the person who did that. But I also think a lot of it is fair. You know, you know, it's just like I know. I know too many people who have made a career on reality TV who really show up as like reality TV stars in the most disingenuous way. Like they know how to perform for the cameras. And so when I'm watching Nick on the show, I can't tell if he's like being sincere or earnest or if he's just like doing a scene. Honestly, I've so I've met Nick a couple of times. Yeah. And I think I don't know him that well. But I genuinely think. I think he is a nice person. OK. And I and how he shows up on the TV show is how he's kind of been in person. And I mean this sincerely, where it's like he's a little quirky. He has like a little quirk to him. He's incredibly smart, obviously, having gone to MIT. Yeah. But I think that that kind of gives you insight into like who he is and his personality. You know, like somebody sometimes people who are so smart kind of have that like quirkiness. But he he comes across as like super friendly. I think some of his. His best friends, besides his hometown friends, are like people that he met on the circle, which I feel like it's hard to maintain those relationships from reality TV. But the circle show, it's like she's just the insecure one. I don't know. He's never struck me as insecure. He's always been. Well, you again, I'm only basing my assumption off on a lot of assumptions. Yeah. And just the show. And that's that's what I would say was hard for me to kind of read him because there's too many things I don't know. And I'm making I'm making a ton of assumptions about someone where she just. She's very, at least, open about it. her insecurities yeah and then she does seem okay so it sounds like she's maybe just projecting most of her insecurities onto him when she like called him that was like yeah i felt kind of bad for him yeah she treats him like shit to be honest she really does yeah she treats him like shit and and it's really uncalled for because it's like he really hasn't done anything to her i think it it's showing up as well her big thing is like her that she has like these abandonment issues like afraid of like getting into relationship sounds like she's been broken up with before she's been left before and and nick to your point like he he he has like a pretty good resume you know he's a good looking guy he's he has some celebrity went to mit he has a lot going for him and it's i think it's very common in relationships when one person feels the inadequacies yeah of themselves you're talking about finances where she's just kind of she's trying to label him yeah um see that you know yeah so no no that's a no yep uh how about felipe and tori i say no why i think they have a fighting chance i kind of do too really i mean i i'm i'm behind so i i don't know fully but i'm just like even seeing their chemistry how they were both equally attracted to each other um that they like each other's personalities i i do think the whole commitment conversation um is something to be wary of that's where i'm getting caught up with them yeah that's what i'm saying and just for the record i'm saying that they're not they may say yes on decision day but they're not gonna last okay that's what i'm long term long term here is my green flag and why i think they could have a shot all right and that was when after they had sex for the first time and she slept on the couch she literally bailed and went to the couch yeah but how he handled that i thought was a green flag because that was a situation where a lot of men would feel totally very inadequate yes very defensive and he didn't and he recognized the situation and that regardless of what happened in the bedroom he allowed her to feel however she felt without making her feel like a bad person for having a very normal reaction even though they are technically married because i think a lot of people in this show make the mistake of being like well we're married right and if we're married we should act like a married couple it's like you're married but you've known each other for four days right you know and he seems to be putting the label on it and the pressure on her so that's why i feel like there's a green flag there for him yeah i think she's gonna get turned off by him because i i think he's he's really a nerd that's covering it up like just the way he laughs but can't we can't we love a nerd right well i'm like my my red flag with him is a not only just like the fear of commitment but it was what were you talking about with the dot or something where it was like how are you gonna and it's just kind of week one and i'm like she's stunning she seems to take all of your boxes absolutely him saying us starting off married is actually a pro because then i just have to focus on us and it's not about getting to that finish line right but i'm like that's just such a weird backwards way of thinking about it but what do you mean backwards i just like in the idea that like oh if we're already married if i already have that label then that would deter me from cheating where it's just like it it doesn't really make a difference it's ass backwards no matter what it's one thing if you're working towards getting married and having to like consciously be like i'm being faithful i'm i'm committed to my partner versus being like oh i already have the label of married so now it's not gonna be so much for me to work to focus on like in this experiment yes right in the real world no when you have different the only reason you're not fucking around is because you're married you have that label like that is that is a horrible horrible i don't buy that yeah like that oh once you get out in the real world and you have people sliding in your dms and he works at a restaurant he owns a restaurant right there's girls hitting on him all the time i don't know why but girls hitting on him all the time i spotted that too and i was just like i'm like really okay all the time and he's like yeah i do i wonder yeah but sometimes i mean don't you know like the it's the i mean i'm very anti-label these days but it isn't at the label and the commitment that but you didn't earn like that's what i'm saying where i'm like the thing what he's trying to say is like as if like not having to earn getting to that stage and make it that far without cheating he doesn't have to worry about that because now we just have this label but in the actuality this is an experiment so the label doesn't really mean anything you're in a controlled environment where your variables aren't random women hitting on you so i'm like if anything it's almost worse to have the label first and then be like oh yeah i've got this because i think we're agreeing i guess it's just more like but to your point like sometimes you need the commitment to you know because like in a marriage i think a lot of people for talking about the fantasy that we have about relationships and marriage is the idea that once you get married you're somehow going to like cease to be attracted to people you know like you will no longer get hit on yeah and and the thing that's going to stop you is that like not the love or the dedication or the commitment you made to each other and the sacrifices that come with it it's just going to be like i'm just not attracted to other people like you know couples will want to pretend it's just like i have no eyes for anyone else we all do like we're human beings but it's like once you're you've made that commitment you make the choice to say i don't care that i'm being hit on i don't care that's a dm being slid into my dm i don't care if i'm attracted to someone i don't care i'm going to i'm married so like i i can't and i choose to want to focus on this relationship a comparable situation to me that's always boggled my brain is like bachelor bachelorette parties right where it's like oh it's my last hurrah as a single person how the fuck have you been single when you've been in a relationship for three years yeah yeah just because you're doing a ceremony it doesn't mean that you're worried about somebody else's feelings right up into a certain point and if you do do something terrible at your bachelorette party why are you marrying this person yes so like that's what i'm saying like the concept of like oh if i have this label a label doesn't mean anything it's the commitment it's what you've built together that's why when people are uh when people are unfaithful and whatnot why it hurts so bad is because it's like we've had two three five however many years yeah and then you choose to do this so i'm like a label doesn't really fucking mean anything you know what this reminds me of something that i've been doing for a long time and i've been you know a question ladies should ask the men in their lives if do you think if your friend gets um a happy ending at a massage is that cheating absolutely yeah yeah of course anyone's anything yeah of course that's not my husband yes but you're asking you should ask your your husband your boyfriend your partner and ask if their friends think that if your friend did that oh would they think it's yeah because i think if you say if you think it's cheating they i think oh yeah they'd be like of course yeah that's a good test a good test it's a good moral test i'm telling you ladies i'm telling you ladies out there guys i've i've had this conversation with some male peers of mine and i was alarmed by how many of them were like well you know i don't know it's like just give me a hand job it doesn't mean i don't mean anything it's like part of the service um that's crazy they were kind of like skirting over the what it should be the obvious answer is like yes of course yeah um and you should ask him about his friends because if in any way he tries to downplay it or justify it he would definitely do it and there's a lot of men out there who secretly with their boys don't think that's a big deal ask it's super nonchalant like almost like as if you don't think it's yeah yeah yeah 100 you should be like you know what honestly like i yeah i don't know what i yeah play into it like my brother did it i wasn't sure how i felt about it what do you think yeah yeah exactly pull the rug out no i'm telling you i'm telling you a disproportionate amount of men think it's okay matter of fact set up a candid camera film it and send it to us yeah let us know what happens all right moving quickly through the rest of the couples okay let's go cameron and michelle i think they're gonna last because she really wants to be in a relationship it seems like they get along the child conversation is very interesting yeah and he seems to be handling it very well very well and he handled the money thing very well too i think yeah i mean he was like i don't make that yeah i mean it didn't seem like he was defensive about it and i thought he just handled that really well and i think she's she really wants a relationship so i think she and they're both hot yeah and he handled that adoption conversation yeah it's like my sister is adopted and i think she's great so we're good yeah and you can tell pretty quickly if uh i mean that's just a lot to i mean to take it in four days yeah it's a lot yeah it's a lot you know it really is one of those things where you feel like the asshole if you want to say hey listen i don't know like i've always wanted to be in a relationship with you and i've always wanted to be in a relationship to have children and how do you say that honestly with someone who's vulnerable enough to say i don't know if i'm going to be able to yeah there's like there's so many ways to fuck up that conversation and make the other person feel inadequate and he seemed to navigate yeah he did a great quite well that was a green flag he did great yeah speaking to hot people devon and caitlin no i say no yeah they might just have some compatibility differences yeah he he has to dim himself and they were talking about this he has to dim himself and who he is he is to make her feel comfortable and that's that's never going to work long term and that's an easy way to probably make a man because all men want to feel masculine whatever that means these days or whatever and they want to feel valued and respected and it's going to be hard for him and so do women by the way though sure you know i i always want to make that clear because there's always always this thing that well men want to be respected and women want to be loved no we want to be respected first because if we're not respected there's no love yeah bar you know yeah bars bars - How about Mecca and Bella Jolie? - No. - No. - You don't think so? - You can't say. If you don't have the self-awareness to say, I think you're more attracted to me than I am to you. That was crazy. I was like, what? I was shook. And I am a guy, as you guys all well know, who sometimes just says things before I'm like, should I have said that? Like, is that necessary? Was that needed? And like, even I know that. Yeah, that was bad. Not to be disrespectful, but I also feel like Becca has interesting advice being given to him in the sense of that. Because I find him to be quite immature. And I'm like, even the conversation with his dad at the wedding day where it was like, if it's a cheek, she's weak or like whatever. And I was like, these aren't mantras we should be. His dad's pretty immature as well. So that's where I was just kind of like. The high school principal? Yeah. Are his parents still, are they still together? Are they divorced? I think they were, right? I don't know. But imagine your kid goes to that school. Yeah, I know. And you see him on TV and he's like, if it's a cheek, it's weak. And it's like, oh, jeez. Yeah. But I will say there's somebody for everybody. Like, people are strange. And I think his, if the parents are still together, a part of me is like, okay, well, there's somebody for everybody. Like, if they're still together, like somebody. He's quirky. Yeah, he's quirky. My biggest thing with them is that I think he is secretly so insecure that I think, I actually don't think that she is more attracted to him. I think he said that kind of to bring her down. Because I think we're seeing in other ways throughout it. But he is like, he keeps talking about like, oh, you're going to think I'm so weird. And she's like, I don't. I think I'm weird too. Yeah. He seems deeply insecure. And that's the biggest reflect for me. I did appreciate his vulnerability about saying that he has basically performance anxiety in the bedroom. And I was like, well, good for you for admitting that. He needs to say it to her, though. Not to the camera. Right. Because. At least that's my opinion. Because I'm like, if you're withholding and she doesn't know why, but you're saying it to us, but she needs to hear it. She feels rejected right now. Yeah, exactly. She feels totally rejected. And he's acting like they're bros. You know, I'm like, I am not your bro, man. Like, you need to step up. That's everyone. Do we want to wrap with Orange County recaps at all? The thing I'm most fascinated about with Orange County, and I love, what seems to be this theme with Vicky of her saying that she regrets her divorce. Yes. And it's like, so, I don't, maybe beautiful is the wrong word. Because I just, but I just like, when was the last time you heard someone admit that? Yeah. Yeah. And then when you know what I want to see this season? I want to see a one-on-one conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to see a one-on-one conversation between Jen and Vicky. Because like, you know, Jen's story is like, she, she left her husband. I don't know what the, you know, maybe he's talked, I don't, I don't know what the reason was, but a lot of her peers had opinions that, you know, even Tamara came on the show and been like, I love, you know, Jen's ex-husband and he's a great guy and blah, blah, blah. And she like blew up her life and for this other guy and, you know, and you're seeing these scenes of her sons being like, I don't get to see my dad. And then you have Vicky, you know, years later from her divorce being like, I, I blew up my family and it makes me sad. And he was a great guy. And it's just like, wow, I want to, I want to hear more about that. It's, it's a very, one of the most vulnerable things I've seen discussed on, on Housewives. It's always interesting to me because I'm like hindsight, obviously, where I'm just like, she wishes that she were closer to her family and she feels like that's what blew up her family. I just obviously have been watching since the beginning where I'm just kind of like, again, Rose colored glasses. She wasn't happy in her marriage either. So I'm like, I just think it's. Yeah. It's a really interesting dynamic, right? Because it's like, we give a lot of credit to long-term relationships and being able to stick them out. And obviously there's highs and there's low and there's lows, which is what gets people to the point of considering divorce. So I'm just like, I don't know. It is interesting. Cause I'm like, I just don't know that if it's not just hindsight looking back and being like, oh, if my family would have stayed together, I was the one that ruined this dynamic. But I was like, you were fighting with him all the time. Vicky and her. Vicky and her ex Dawn Rose. She just like, didn't like him. And it was just very. It was very clear. But isn't that interesting now? Like with the benefit of hindsight, she's, it sounds like she's like, I was the problem. You know, it was, she's starting the fights where she, you know, Vicky's a highly successful, you know, independent woman. She's, you know, has her own business, you know, in, in real estate. And I wonder if like she was one in that period, she was maybe feeling like he was not doing it. I don't, I'm curious what actually it, looking back, I am, I would, I'm fascinated by what, what Vicky. Now thinks is why she fell out of love with Don or why she chose to live the relationship. Was she bringing up fights and who knows, but it's just fascinating for her to like, when she talks about it, she just looks so sad, you know, and in such an honest way. Well, we've all been there though. I think I've, I've been in, in a relationship where I got bored with the, with the other person. So anything that they did got on my nerves. So I would start fights and oh my God, you know, and really, and I, and I was, and I look back, I'm like, you know what? He really was a nice guy. I was just, yeah, I was just stupid. And I think Vicky understands this is that you think that that intensity and that those butterflies and that attraction is always going to be there and that shit fades. It's work. That shit fades. Yeah. It's work, right? It's work. So yeah, it's, it makes you wonder, it's just like, cause in relationships, I think the ones that work is at the end of the day, you feel like your partner is doing something and you feel like you're doing their part, right? Whatever that is, you know, we've talked so much about finances and how that plays a part in people doing their part, but you know, there is often financial disparity in relationships. How often do you meet someone and you're like, oh, I make the exact same amount of money. I wonder if in some relationships people lose sight of the part their partner is playing and how they show up and start taking it for granted. Again, I don't know Vicky and Don's relationship, but I wonder if he was, she just stopped appreciating what he was doing, how he showed up as a father, how he showed up as a partner. And she just decided that he is supposed to do X, Y, or Z. He's not doing that. And therefore I'm not happy. I honestly think that that's a more accurate. That is exactly it. Yeah. That, that's bullseye right there. But fast. I mean, like I just give Vicky so much credit cause it's, it's such a fat, you know, in a, so often on these shows, they're just arguing about the dumbest shit, you know, and that's some real life shit that I, I'm so fat. I, I want to hear more about, and I want to see a conversation with Vicky and, and, and Jen. About, about that relationship. Um, maybe we will. Cause maybe there's, you know, probably not the same, probably different situations, but there's always a theme with, with Jen and her relationship or of, she never really seems happy with her life or her relationship. That guy's slimy anyway. And there's that. He really is. I mean, he's, he's just slimy. Yeah. I mean, it's just obvious that he is. And so she's going from, I lost my high with my ex-husband. Now I have this high with this other guy and that's going to fade and she's just going to go. To another one and vice versa. He's, he's, he's going to lose interest. He already is. I do feel like we're seeing a trope throughout the last couple of seasons as to how divorce is affecting people's children. I was like, you obviously got Jen's son last episode or two episodes ago where he was just like, where Ryan literally tried to tell her that, like, I think this is what the problem is. And she was like, I'm doing everything I can. It's very like, I centric, very, if it's possible that my son is missing his father, then it's something. It's something against me, which it's not right. Um, obviously Tamara's daughters didn't talk to her for years based off of the divorce with Simon. Um, and then Vicky's like, my daughter moved to Oklahoma. I don't know if you watched Orange County, but like, yeah, I know all about that. Yeah. I, how do you guys feel like where it's like, do you think even with Jen bringing, uh, putting herself on reality TV where it's like, it's admirable because she is, she does have a job now and she has some sort of finances coming in. But I also think the whole platform. Forming of the divorce and speaking ill of the father of your, of your children and them being old enough to see it and be talked about. And I think her son was even saying that he gets made fun of and, and all these things where I'm like, do you think that there's a responsibility as a reality TV person putting with, when putting your family on screen and like, what is that and where is the line? I mean, yeah, I don't know if they know the line. And does it exist? Cause also Carmela, she said that she doesn't, she's not legally divorced and still shares a house with her ex-husband and like, doesn't have a custody. So you have like her, the new housewife on OC as like the new version of a more positive potentially position in divorce. But then you also have the two daughters who one is like, I don't go to school. Yeah. So like, yeah. So you know what I mean? No one's going to make me. It's a unique position. I feel, I do feel fortunate. I feel like I realize that certain aspects of reality TV are really, really not good for you. And I would not go back on unless it was so financially delicious. Yes. Honestly. Or the opportunity. I felt like something that would be positive for my mental health. But I think that doesn't exist. Well, yeah, that's true, I guess. But I think more so like a fun environment. Like I wouldn't, I don't think I could do dating or something like that. Like I think that that just brings so much or even a housewives, like not that I'm going to be a housewife, but you know what I mean? I'm like, that is, it's such a toxic environment. But I think that I'm curious. I don't know, but I'm curious if some of these women feel like they have no option but to show up on the show. Maybe that is their means to how they pay their bills, how they provide for themselves. Maybe they don't feel stable in their relationships. And they need this as income to provide for their kids. But you're at the same time exploiting your families. Like I, I would like to personally, I'm like, I would tell people like quit the show. Yeah. Like it, it cannot be good for your kids to see this. Essentially you say that because, you know, Andy Cohen, just in an interview, because you know, we Bravo celebrating like 20 years of housewives. They asked him about like how they, I don't know what the question was, but he was basically like being a housewife is not a draft or whatever you either like you either want to do it. or you don't and you either think being a housewife makes your life better or you don't. And if you don't want to do it, don't do it, which is very cutthroat and it's very like business is business. And I, from Andy's standpoint, it's his, I'm sure he is tired of, of, you know, seeing this like list of all these women, he's played a huge role in making famous and rich and all these things. And he's probably very frustrated with, when it comes to like what often feels like, I'm sure from his standpoint, a lack of ownership or accountability or just appreciation for how their lives has changed on the flip side, this is a very toxic space and, and, and it is very lucrative and to be successful in this space, you have to make very difficult decisions, decisions that do I incorporate my family? There's so much pressure from the audience of being authentic and criticisms. When you try to, when you try to put up a boundary of me, like, I don't know if I'm comfortable going there and then you'll get a bunch of fans and criticisms and maybe pressures from producers, they literally bonus you out for the drama that you bring to the show. So on the flip side, I can completely get where Randy's coming from. But on the other side, it's like, man, you are really putting these people in a very difficult position and, and forcing them in some cases to make an impossible choice of showing appreciation. But to do your job, you have to, in some cases, blow up your family and blow up your life or be willing to know that it's somebody else. And then sometimes you're even darker. And so it's, it's a very like, man, I get it, Andy, but like, damn, it's 100% a trade off with the devil and you're selling your soul. So be ready. Yeah. I mean, that's all it is. And you know, they, it's interesting because I do a lot of housewife content and I'll talk about like Dorit's financial situation. And I find it so interesting. People will get in the comments and be like, it's not your business. I'm like, she literally gets paid for putting her business on the street. I mean, every, every day I see like a new headline between Dorit. And that's what I'm saying, you know, putting each other on blast and it's your business to discuss it. Right. And that's my, and I use it and see, so I'm not a guy. It's not a gossip. When I talk about it, I use it as a teaching moment as to what not to do. This is what you don't do. No, I mean, I I'm with you on that. Like you, one of my biggest frustrations with this space and the people we cover, it's just like, well, we could not talk about you. Like, isn't that the whole point? You clearly want to be talked about. And yes, you know, very much on this show, we try to be, find the middle ground. You know, and, and see both sides and, and try not to have a criticism to be too harsh and always kind of empathize with the position they're in. But so many of these reality TV stars is like, if you're going to talk about me, it better be fucking nice. And it's like, well, I mean, I, I guess, but like you were really nice when you hooked up with your best friend. You guys do have a lot of empathy on this show. No, you really, no, you guys really do honestly. And, and it's, it's really refreshing and it makes me feel bad about myself because I just don't know. I just don't have a lot of that empathy because I just feel like if you're making money off of this, then that's it. This is your job. I think, I think from like when I discuss it, I think of it through the lens of like, we're all human and you know, I've signed up for the, I signed up for a show and, and did it and you don't know what you're walking into always. But I think that if you're going to do a repeat show where you're a housewife, you sign up year after year to an extent, you do know what you're signing up for. Absolutely. And I think, so that's where I think. The other side of it though, is what we try to do is like using you as an example. It's like, I agree with you. Like these housewives are putting out content for us to do whatever we want with it, I guess. Right. I just wish what, what, what the fans would do is recognize that it's still a TV show and all these women are showing up and making these very difficult choices for our entertainment to, to, to, to judge these other people so that we can feel better about our own lives. And like, I, I sometimes, I don't know, I don't know. I sometimes wish fans would recognize that a little bit more to just be like, okay. And, and just whatever, whatever even PK and Dorita putting out there just to recognize that whether it's performative or it's actually just, they're really just being nasty that like they are doing it for our benefit. And I think we have to recognize they're like, they are, it is their job and maybe we shouldn't just judge a book by its cover. And maybe we shouldn't just deem these people as horrible people because like some of it is like, they are just doing scenes sometimes. Like I just, no doubt, especially in the Bravo universe, people are willing to do things they wouldn't normally do in real life. You know, like I, you know, it's a little different than the bachelor, but I'm sure there was a lot of things as the bachelor, I was like, I would never, I don't want to do that. Of course. Yeah. Fine. Fuck it. Like, I guess I'll dress up as Adam and Eve and like, I, you know, like, I guess, like, I guess I'll go on this bouncy castle knowing full well, I'm going to be judged for it, but I, you know, whatever. Those pictures still exist on Google. Yeah. You've been on the other side. I think that that's, that's, that's where like the empathy comes from is if you've been on the other side, I think you, you understand that a little bit better. Another question. So Tamara basically got offended that Heather won't post her on her TikTok and it raised the question of if you're not posting your friend on your TikTok, does that mean you're not proud of them, of having them as a friend? In real life? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. In Tamara's world, I think she kind of has a point. There's some legs to it. In real life, it's just like, how can you possibly? Of course. Oh, I've had people get mad at me for that. Sure. Yeah. But silly. And like, right. Like, I don't know, man. I just, I didn't, I don't know. You know. Sorry. Every picture we take together is terrible. Yeah. There's that. Sorry. You don't look good in every picture we take. There is that. I'm on the bad side in the picture. But in, in, in, in, in reality TV world, specifically Bravo world now more than ever, all these women, uh, who are housewives are so self-conscious and, and just Bravo celebrities in general about their brand. The blog space in Bravo world has more and more immense influence and power. And so many of those reality TV stars are reading the blogs, are reading their press, are reading Reddit pages. And they are very worried about the perception of who they are in their brand. And we do know that Heather is very brand conscious. He's very classy. Um, and if I'm Tamara, I could see a world where it's just like, Hey, we're friends. We do what we hang out. You invite me over to Christmas parties, even off camera. We're, we're, we're, we're friends like we're friends. And yet I, you never, I can't even find myself on your social media. I could see it would make sense that Tam, that Heather doesn't want to post Tamara given like all the criticism and messes that Tamra finds herself in. And if I'm Tamara, I could see how that would feel like, Hey, like I know on housewives, we get into it in the drama, but like I'm your actual fucking friend and can't you just let people know? Yeah. Pretend that we're enemies when we're actual friends. I, I, I actually, I can get on the Tamra side on that. That's what Tamra was saying. Yeah. I also had the question of, so people are coming for my people. The cast members are looking at Carmela and basically saying she's trying to buy her friends specifically in the fact that she had an event where she gave everybody a Dior clutch with a dildo and everybody was like, a Dior clutch is expensive. You're giving these designer bags, which means you're trying to buy our friendship. And I, the question to me is, what if, what if? What if she's a gift giver in her love language, but is it Dior bag a gift or is that like, I'm showing my money here as a gift? Didn't Shannon give a bunch of people Hermes scarves or bags or something last season? Like Hermes scarves are 200 bucks. Okay. Okay. But Dior, Dior bags are, you know, thousands. Well, the only, the real indicator there is if at any point post gift giving, does she mention the gift? Well, I got you that gift. Yeah. You know, does she weaponize that gift? Does she hold that gift? Does she hold that gift over their head at any point then it's like, okay, you bought my friendship. But if she's like, I don't know, it's like, I got you a gift and I hope you enjoy it and literally never bring it up. It's all about the flash. Anyway. I mean, these shows are literally all about the flash. It's all about, look how much money I have. I have so much money. I can afford to buy people Dior bags. Just paying $35,000 a month in rent. 39,000. First of all, like. How much is a Dior bag? Why are you renting? 10,000. Yeah. You're a real estate agent. That's what I don't. And I've never understood that where I'm just like everybody with the selling sunset of it all. And I know it's all a farce because it's like, there's an actual commission split. You did not make $200,000 off of this sale solely, but I'm just like, so you live in a house with your ex-husband, you're handing out Dior bags, you're paying $39,000 a month in rent. Why not just get a place for you and your kids? Yeah. And I know like in today's day and age, there's always like this new, like, you know, 10, 15 years ago, it was like, you have to buy a house. That's the only way to like accumulate wealth. And then in 2006, you know, depending on your financial situation, it might not make sense to buy a house. This is how you determine. But if you're spending $35,000, you can afford a house. 39. Okay. The money that you're paying for rent, because homes appreciate about 5% every single year. Okay. What you need to think about is, okay, that $39,000 is ridiculous. Stupid. I mean, that's just stupid. Right? Just talking in general. Someone's like, okay, do I buy? Do I rent? What are you going to do with the money? That you were going to pay a down payment for on a house. If you're going to invest on the stock market, you're going to make 12 to 15% on top of that money. If you put it in a property, it's only going to appreciate about 5% a year. Right. Right. So if you have other things that you're going to do with that money, that's going to make you more money. Okay. You don't want to buy. So maybe she's making it rain. Maybe. I don't, I don't know. I'm just saying just in general, but 39,000, that just seems like ridiculous. Yeah. It's a, that's a stupid amount of money to be flushing. Washing down the toilet a month. Is she paying for it or is her boyfriend? or is it a boyfriend her ex-husband or her ex-husband yeah that's like if she's not paying for it then but the whole circumstance doesn't make sense because didn't you just say that she said she lives with her ex-husband well she doesn't live with them it's a little confusing i think she lives with the current situation but she has a house that she shared with her ex-husband that he lives in and kids go between her now house and his house the house that she's in right now is not the ex-husband is the 39 000 that she's sharing with her partner current partner i believe yes that's what i understood and but i don't know that she disclosed who pays for it because if he's if he's paying it i'm living in it for sure yeah i'll live i'll save my money and save my down payment money but to your point if that money is just going to rent right and she can't afford to invest correct that's the problem somewhere else then it's just it's just waste then it's a waste yeah it's a complete waste and this is why i love reading court filings you guys because these court filings you see i read they're better than gossip blogs because they destroy the gap between how someone projects themselves on tv and the reality because you think this person is rich as fuck and they don't have a pot to piss and they're broke as fuck i want everyone to think i'm poor yeah i love this dude sandbag you know good luck if anyone knows anything about podcasting they know you're not broke i mean hello i hope right i feel broke patty this has been so much fun it's been great for anyone interested in reading patty's book never date a broke dude there's some incredible insights in this book uh so certainly some how to's i mean it is it is shocking how many young people are financially illiterate and there's some basic do's and don'ts in here yeah i mean this is this is sounds like it's a fun read it is a fun read it's a playbook and we'll tell you exactly how to invest exactly what your mind needs to look like all of that yeah i just opened up a page and it says buys a basic birkin for twenty thousand dollars that's four percent of her net worth huge difference yeah we're talking about kim kardashian okay i'm talking about kim kardashian i'm talking about kim kardashian exactly thanks for all the incredible insight and the fun gossip on reality tv where can people find follow you all that fun stuff at duchess of decorum on instagram how'd you come up with that name well i used to teach a lot of decorum i used to do a lot of decorum videos because yeah when covid was happening is when i started my social media how do you feel about spitting in public or spitting in people's mouths in public like amanda and west yeah and worst that's what i call them worst you 吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭吃饭 okay so when you're cutting steak you don't go back and forth like that you cut in one direction only when you're eating soup you're not supposed to put the whole spoon in your mouth you're actually supposed to tip it and kind of that's why i don't eat soup yeah you're not supposed to start eating until everyone's eating at the table if you're getting to go up to the to the restroom what if you're at one of those annoying restaurants you know oh my god i hate this we bring it out when it's ready oh yeah that's really annoying what do you mean well they're like yeah they're like yeah we'll just bring it out we just bring it out so like the french fries come out and then like 10 minutes later your burger comes out and then the salad comes out 20 minutes later you're like i thought i guess i don't know but i wish i could have picked my order yeah in those instances i always tell people to go ahead and eat but if if you're if you're if you're at an event and you know they're serving food you don't just start eating like a wild animal you wait everyone sits down you put your napkin on your lap that's where your napkin's supposed to go you don't put you don't tuck it into your shirt yeah no you don't put lipstick on your napkin if you have lipstick on you you ask for a paper napkin that's how you wipe it oh noted i took an etiquette course like a year ago from uh the girl that's on the london ladies of london ladies of london what is her name um i want to say like mickey but it's not mickey oh god she's so cute i took a i took an etiquette course like i just happened to be there and i was like i'll do this did you learn a lot i actually learned a lot yeah i mean i i low-key took one when i was little too like randomly as well yeah it was like a tea party i went to and they taught us so i some of it was a micah micah yes yeah micah yeah and so and i then i saw she popped up on the show i was like wait this is so cool but yeah took an etiquette course they taught me like how to do the napkin properly and then like where to dab and i was like oh okay which everything to use yeah from outside inside in yeah what about men what about them do they need etiquette actually they probably need it who should take the class yes men men do you guys like you'll you'll take like the the bun or the bread and just like put the butter and just go you know like you're not supposed to do that you're supposed to cut a piece of bread off put the butter on there put in your mouth not bite into it do you know which fork is for what i mean i'm gross how do you hold your fork how do you hold your fork like that's my childhood trauma well because i grew up in a family of 10 kids so oh god when i eat there's like a 10 kids it's my brain goes into like get it while you can get it while you can um like i used to wake up early to make sure you got a bowl got a bowl of cereal yeah you know because if you didn't wake up early a mom bought sugar cereal my man he's one out of seven and he he always has like foam he's always looking how come you're eating this you know like like he's always missing out on something that's so funny childhood trauma yeah it's real we all have patty thanks for coming thank you for having me it's been so much fun and thank you guys for listening uh we appreciate you we'll see you back on monday bye