Dustin Hoffman Part II

♪ Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are gonna be friends, yes I can tell that we are gonna be friends. ♪ Okay, welcome to Conor O'Brien Needs a Friend. This is a little unusual. We started a conversation several days ago with Dustin Hoffman. Fantastic. There's way too much to talk about, so this is part two. Never been done. Never been done. On our podcast. Maybe someone else has done it. Never happened on this show, which is really the only podcast that matters. Oh. So here we are, part two, my conversation. With Dustin Hoffman. Everyone here can cite 15 movies you've done that we love. The one we walked in today, Sona said, Hook, Hook, you gotta talk about Hook. And in it, you play Captain Hook, and Bob Hoskins plays Smee. You had an interesting idea, you and Bob Hoskins had an interesting idea of how to play it. An idea that Steven Spielberg was maybe not thrilled about. Is that fair to say? Yes. Because, in a sense, they were living in the same room together. Yeah. And we thought. They're on a ship, they're always together. That's right. And they're, you know, they're really gay. And we thought that was very brave of us, you know, because Smee was always doing anything I wanted. You know, I was the, what would be the, I was the. The top. Yes. Yes, that's right. You were the top. I was the toppy. Mr. Bird. I was the toppy. I know. I know. I know. I knew what he was going for and didn't say it. Because I had restraint. But, you know. Oh, Schlesinger. Oh, Schlesinger was, it was Schlesinger who said it. And it was Cowboy. That's, it was Cowboy. We wanted to make. In Midnight Cowboy. Yes, we wanted to make them gay. Yeah. And we, because we figured that they, that's what they are. Right. And they live in one room, they sleep in the same bed. I mean, come on. So then you're playing, you're playing Hook with Bob Hoskins. Yeah. And again, you're saying they're gay. Yes. They have a relationship. Yes. And, and so, well, Schlesinger said, oh, fine. I've taken, it's taken me three years to try to finance this movie. And now, and I only finance it because, you know, you're a star for The Graduate. And now, you know, with, with one, you know. One choice. One choice. Did you do this on All the President's Men, too? I know. I was going to say that. Woodward and Bernstein. I was going to say, I was thinking, what if your idea every time you made a film was, it's Woodward and Bernstein. Come on. They're in a community. They're in a committed relationship. Well, you know what they were called. They're at the Washington Post together. They were called Woodstein. Woodstein. Yeah. I mean, how close do you have to get? I love that. Every single time when you do a voice for Disney, you're like, he's gay. And that's, the other fish is his lover. And they're like, Mr. Hoffman, please. But not Tootsie. I draw the line there. Yeah, not Tootsie. Who was the one that was with Bugs Bunny? Oh, Daffy Duck? Daffy Duck. There it is. Yeah. I called Daffy for nothing. Oh, my God. So, every single role you've played. I mean, we say gay. He's gay. Yeah. I mean, same thing. Gay as being happy. A Boolean. Yeah. Yes. Incredible. So, you and Bob Hoskins go to Spielberg and say, we know the characters now. They're in a committed relationship, Smee and Hook. Spielberg's reaction, not thrilled. Right. He's like. He's like, let me get back to you on that. Yeah, he's, well, he's a commercial guy. Yeah. He knows what the public wants. Yeah. And it's not that. Right. It's not that. Yeah. I find it moving. And it never happened before. There's a producer who I knew who calls me up and he said, I just had an idea. Hook, he didn't know where it came from. He says, the perfect movie. He wanted a hit. He wanted something that would be. He says, you would be Hook. And I really didn't know anything about it. I said, Hook. About Peter Pan and all that. Yeah. And there'll be Peter Pan and there'll be the. Tinkerbell. Yeah, Tinkerbell. And he said it would be a hit. And I said, okay, well, let me. I said, who would be, who would be your dream cast? And he says, well, you for Hook. He says, Robin Williams would be great as Peter Pan. And Spielberg would be great to direct it. Literally, I made the phone calls. I called up. Uh, Robin and I said to him and he just said, yeah, just like that. And, uh, then I called Spielberg who was in Spain, I think. And, uh, and we were, I was telling him, he says, uh, I says, here's what we got. We got so-and-so producing. I want to play hook. Robin wants to play, uh, uh, Peter Pan and so-and-so yeah. Bob Hoskins, Bob Hoskins. And he says, yeah, sounds good. I'm in. No, that's never happened before. So in five minutes. The three people that would wind up being in the movie said yes. Right off the bat. I hope you got commissions because you got all these people, a lot of work in the book. You talk about when you're talking about hook, you talk about your, how absolutely enthralled you were by Robin Williams, who I got to know a little bit and he was a magical person. Do you want to tell me why he was magical to you? Yeah, well, sure. Um, or do you want me to go first? I think you should go first since you're Dustin Hoffman and, uh, it's a big deal so i want to hear what you have to what did you what made doesn't think he's a big deal he's still looking for it i don't think he does i don't actually i agree i don't so you agree with me yeah okay um it's okay yeah you could be stunned what was it you write in the book that the first time you met robin williams you went home and you wrote in your diary you actually wrote in a journal how blown away you were yes we all know he was an amazing person but what was it to you that made him special he was the opposite of what his persona was he was extremely self-conscious he was he was shy he didn't think much of himself at all he uh he was so insecure he would not go to the dailies in those days we had dailies so we're on the on the same lot we're doing whatever scene we're doing and then i would just it's columbia i think and that had stairs and i would go up the stairs open the door and i would see the work from yesterday being what they call the dailies whatever on there he would be waiting outside halfway or two-thirds down the stairs and i would come out afterwards and he says how was i and he wasn't kidding yeah and i would say they said what about when i did this every single little thing and what about after i said that did that work and i had to tell him about each one he wanted to know if they were because he'd be very upset if something didn't work he had extraordinary insecurity yeah that's all right to say but you know that's and that was sometimes the fuel yes for him and may have been the fuel for what enabled him to levitate like that yes it was just that yes i mean you have your fuel you have this which you've which you've already talked about but it's evident that you still like jalen brunson want to try and figure out how you can do it a little better what i did wrong in the last shot yeah i don't want to get the same thing wrong again yeah but that's i mean come on life is what 20 of it we're living yeah and the 80 we'd love to redo yeah could i have another pass at high school yes yes the 80s can i can we do a retake on the 80s yes um anyway that robin was uh he was he was something he was something he was uh he went to juilliard school he was a serious actor and because it was not easy to get in juilliard i couldn't get in there and he went to juilliard and he was accepted and one of the things you had to do in juilliard school that's what it's called right and the first year you had to take fencing and he was a master fencer fencer i can't even bend my legs that's a very tough thing his first position yeah as you try to do it you try to just get down squat and then be like that i can't do it i can't even be in that position it's not easy he was i had a stuntman doing everything everything i had my back for a couple times i put close up on my face he did ever robin did every single moment of his fencing he was an expert fencer he was an athlete he was an athlete he was an athlete he was uh he ran he was always running yeah he running up around the park when i knew him he was i mean he all his life i think he was really into cycling really into cycling and when i was going through a low point in my life he found out and he called me up he said hey chief hey chief i'll never forget that hey chief how you doing and i he said i want to cheer you up he bought me a colgano bike which is a very nice italian bike and cindy said i'm having it made for you it's going to be painted all these crazy irish colors like i said i said make it look like a leprechaun and i got this insane bike from robin williams oh much more than that much more than that just because he heard that i was in a bit of a funk that's him i've told these guys many times i'm a little low nothing from you no none of you never an expensive bike from him you take from yeah when he's low that's when he's most vulnerable that's when we strike yeah so here's my question for you dustin we can never in a million years get to all the stories people have to get this book look at me my question for you now it's 89 years old what is it that you look for now every day what do you not have to take a piss every seven minutes how many times have you urinated during this interview women don't know how lucky they are they don't have to worry about a prostate oh yeah we just have to worry about childbirth well then there's that yes you other than that no downsides to being a woman sona then there's that okay yeah that's true we have it easy yeah one last thing about robin yeah you guys here how many people in your life when you heard they were dead that it was a shock that you if you were driving you had to stop driving i can tell you exactly we were taping a show and just before i went out to do the show we heard that robin williams had died and i went out and i i think i told the audience that robin williams had died and cameras were rolling and then i maybe have been will arnett i don't remember who the guest was but they came out and they were in shock and andy richter was there all of us were in shock and it was our it was just the reality we we had to talk about it but yes it's very few people that can affect you that way there was one well how about princess die i mean yeah what i mean you stopped your car yeah what yeah she's this young gal yeah your plan is to live to over 100 that's the plan well i have a i have a thought on that if i may yeah but i do have to take uh go number one why it's called number one i don't know because number two should be number one right i think you make a good point i also think another point is eduardo we should have a jar in here what's just i mean i've several times i just go and i have to go there's a lot of plastic on the floor back in my area of the podcast i i had bladder cancer i'm not ashamed to say it uh and it was the luckiest thing that ever had happened to me because that's a story too i don't do i say that on the that's for anyways here i am uh at a hospital and i had a urinary tract disease which which men can get yeah sure as well yeah and that's what i thought it was by the time i got there i was like oh my symptoms and the doctor said well just for the hell of it let's let's do a a scan yeah and one of those moments you never forget and it's breakfast time in the cafeteria at ucla and lisa and i are sitting having breakfast there and i see the way she's walking toward me this is not a good news you can tell walking right there and certain things especially i guess if you're in the business with writers or whatever yeah yeah things we just remember it's our job and and i and she doesn't look at me she just looks down and i say you know is it cancer and she just nods her head yeah and i stood up and i said i got to go outside that was the first thing i said i had to i had to go outside i had to get a breath and literally said to myself as i was going outside i'm not a i'm not a cancer kind of guy i should be that's not my thing my family should be heart attack you know yeah yeah jewish stuff you know the guilt is spreading throughout your prostate cancer should be for the goyim yeah yeah and gentiles get cancer you know we get heart attacks and strokes and and i get outside oh and that's when i get the the news and the guy comes to me he's a it's a lovely man yeah oh he happened to be outside by accident and his job was uh uh uh cancer and uh yeah he heard what it was and i said so what does that mean he says well you know it means you you have a tumor he says but you're lucky he says because it's i don't think we have to they knew then they didn't have to take interesting story they didn't have to take a piece of your uh uh thigh and make it and make a a bag out of it right they do that yeah they have to create a you know new sack so to speak and with me it was it wasn't connected to anything that means it was all in itself so you dodged a bullet you had a this was a great if you want to call it that someone's got to go in the penis and pull it out come on look anytime people want to jump on you know i'm just saying if people need to work on my penis go for it and i and i said down there there's nothing happening and i said so so what do you want to come outside i said so so do i have to do it or no you can wait for a few days how about right now and he said yeah i says yeah right here in the parking lot at least go to an operating room deep throat and i and they and i went and had it removed right then they said you're not gonna feel it because we'll and i didn't you know it's what you feel is because you're you're drugged yeah 11 o'clock that night you know suddenly i'm not drugged anymore and that area is on fire you know literally it's because oh because when the nerve endings are well that's no that was my arm that's another story that's what i see you're getting your arm and your dick confused which is impressive that's very impressive so i'm holding my dick or was it my arm i don't remember but they put a catheter on me right when they took the tumor out yeah well and so when i woke up at night it's connected to a a thing at the bottom yep i couldn't lie there and just pee knowing it was gonna i still got on my feet picked that thing up and went to the bathroom and pretended like i was going in the toilet that meant everything to me does it make sense yes okay you have a catheter and you're going method on how you go to the bathroom you have a catheter and you're going method on how you go to the bathroom all right so should i finish use the restroom and then finish the story yeah yeah i'm gonna do the same i have to ask you um why the title which i love by the way why look at me how'd you come up with that title here i am working with sir lawrence olivier boardage and uh and we there's a break there when uh when you're just you know they're in movies you know you spend 10 hours to get three minutes of film they're resetting cameras they're adjusting the lighting there's a sound issue and you're just sitting around yes and i i don't like to go back to my camper because i don't want to leave my camper if i'm there i just want to stay there and sleep so there i am and hanging around with uh sir lawrence and uh and i'm just sitting there and i'm just sitting there and i'm and i just say to him i said you know i asked i said you know i asked this i asked this question almost to everybody it doesn't have to be uh as i said to you it doesn't have to be uh acting you know it doesn't have to be like an a star or an icon or even an actor just anybody what do you think is the reason you're doing what you do right and you kind of said yours you know when you were a kid and uh and i said you know people have said uh you know i do it because i think uh actors say i think i have something to say i think i have this talent that just needs to get out all and every time i said one of those he said bollocks bollocks which the brits say basically bullshit yeah and it's balls and cock put together that's what it comes from balls and cocks should be together in my opinion and that's what that's my understanding i have no idea that's it you can look it up i sure i have many times bollocks so uh which is interesting in a way i mean that you know english is their thing they can be inelegant too anyways so bollocks bollocks and i said so what is the reason and we were right next to each other waiting for the camera and he literally put his nose right to my nose literally that close right and i said so when i would say they said that he says don't bollocks but i said then what is it and he looked at me and he told me something that no one has ever said any better or any truer look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me and there it is there it is there's nothing truer than that uh guilty like i i that that is yes in other words i exist i'm alive and i am an individual and i am worth looking at and being thought of as not ordinary but special and that i think is part of every single one of us i think i would say yeah And that's why it's called Look At Me. No one's ever said it better. I get chills even now. Just thinking about it, yeah. Look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me. That's everything. Everything, isn't it? It's so funny, too, because I think there's a thing that goes with that, too, sometimes, which is occasionally, no one look at me. And the minute they don't look at you, look at me. You know, there's a lot of celebrities or people that have been in situations where, oh, my God, someone's taking a picture or paparazzi. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. But it's look at me, look at me, look at me. Don't look at me. Look at me. Because there's a difference. Yeah. You're not you when they're doing that. They're taking pictures of everybody, right? You're not an individual. But if it's just you, it's you. Yeah. And you're unlike, I mean, that's extraordinary. I mean, whatever is that overall thing that makes up what we call life is that there has been no one. Ever, ever in the history of human beings. That is you. We've had doppelgangers, you know, but no one has ever been you before. That's extraordinary. How can that be? You know, I mean, by the way, when you get to be this age, that's the kind of shit you think about. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would love it if you came back sometime. This is an old timer. And like I say, we could I could do an hour just on Papillon. Just. We haven't talked about Amadeus yet. Amadeus. Amadeus. Well, I could tell you something about President's Men, if I may. Yeah, yeah. Please, please. Yeah. We're big fans of all the President's Men. So. I can only say one. The first thing that comes to mind, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford. That is the reason that all the President's Men got made. And that is the why all the President's Men is all the President's Men. And the reason of here he was, Robert Redford, I mean, number one, I think, as far as studios were concerned, he could not get any. He went to every single one and he got turned down by every studio. They wouldn't make all the President's Men. No, they all said the same thing. We know what the ending is. Yeah. He says, yes, but you don't. It's not about that. It's about how, how they did it. What did they do? And he went to. And Woodstein, you know, and by the way, you couldn't get a better coupling of, is that the right word? Yeah. Of an odd couple. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's because Redford, who literally was the biggest star, but he got turned down by every single studio. And he says, it's not about what the ending is. It's how, how, how we got there, how we got there. And Redford, it was his. It meant, I think it meant the world to him. It was, for some reason, was the most important thing in the world is to find out step by step by step by step what journalists did for a living. How extraordinary. Yeah. And I think after the film came out, in fact, I noticed a fact, I was told anyways, you can look it up, is that they had 20 times as many kids wanting to. Be journalists. Yeah. Starting college, wanting to be journalists. Yeah. And what the character he played had was A went to B and B went to C and C went to D and everything had to be looked at and authenticated before he came up with B after A. Yeah, yeah. And it took a long time just to go from one letter to another. And Bernstein went from, was lazy. Yeah. He went from A to H. Yeah. Because he didn't want to go through that. He was notoriously lazy, admittedly, because somehow he was right. Yeah. He was able to make that jump. He had a talent. And I love that scene where I think it's Robert Redford as Woodward files his report. And then you guys haven't really interacted yet. You're at your desk and then quietly you get up and you go over and you look at his and you start to make changes. And it is a scene from the audience. couple. It's Felix Unger and Oscar Madison. He comes over and says, don't do that. And you're saying you want it to be good and you want it to be right. And it's one of the great meetings that's in cinema, I think. It really happened. Yeah, it really happened. I have a question. He says, at least I want to get credit for it. Yeah. I have a question. Do you think Nixon ever saw all the presence men? Well, it's so interesting in terms of today, because Nixon thought there was a value of being America and American. He was a patriot as opposed to today. Nixon resigned because he didn't want to be the only president. He was impeached. Yeah. He wanted that for the country. Yeah. Well, also, I mean, that's the difference is people talk about this a lot. But if all the presence men happened today, you know, the two journalists, Woodward and Bernstein, would be doing all the work, would be talking about Trump. They would do it all. They would present the evidence. And Trump would say fake news. What else you got? And it's happening. Yeah. And it's happening. Even with Woodward. Yeah. And so it is when I look at that movie, which is, again, one of my favorite movies, All the Presidents. I'm also looking at a time when there was a respect for evidence and facts and journalism. And Robards says it. Yeah. You have to have it twice. And Robards was uncanny resemblance. Jason Robards was amazing. He got the Academy Award for anything. But he was exactly like Bradley, who I think was the head of The Washington Post. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. Oh, he was extraordinary. What an actor. And interestingly, when I went to New York, the first thing I saw, the first straight play I saw was called The Disenchanted. And the reason that I went to see it, I didn't know anything. I was, you know, 20 years old. I love Bud Schulberg. And I had read What Makes Sammy Run. And Bud Schulberg, I think, had written The Disenchanted. And I'm going and I walk in, I second act it like we always did. You know, people get a cheap, you can get a cheaper, you can get in for free. Yeah. You go in when they're, you know, 20 years are out, they don't check you and you just pick some seat in the last row of the balcony or whatever. And we call it second acting. And I went there and I'm watching it. And my God, Jason Robards is on the stage and he's doing a monologue. I think that was like 20 minutes. And I said, this is the most extraordinary acting I've ever seen. That 20 minutes. By the way, there's another person and I say it in the book, Elaine May. Yeah. She's a genius, I think, by the way. She is on Tootsie. And we had everybody trying to make, couldn't make it work, could not make that movie work. And she says, I'll tell you three, she read it. And she, she got back with him. She read it immediately and called, I think, the next day. She says, okay, you need, no one's, it's never happened to me before or it won't ever happen. She says, you need three things. She says, you need, you need him to, to, to have Jessica Lange, a person that he really wants to be with, but you need him to really have a girlfriend, the incredible Terry Garr. And she shouldn't have died. No, I'm sorry. God almighty. Anyways, you need Terry Garr. She, oh, Terry Garr. And Terry Garr should be the one who is afraid to, how, she, she can't audition. Remember, she, she, she, they cut, like, she goes three hours early to get up to her and she's so afraid. And so he goes in and pretends he's a Terry, the Terry Garr character. And that's how he gets the job in Tootsie. And she says, you need a Terry Garr character who you treat like a piece of shit. And you need a Jessica Lange character who's a person you can't get. And for some reason, she says, and you, you need something out in the country and that should, uh, uh, uh, somebody's, what is it? He's the father of Charles Durning is the father of Jessica, Jessica Lange. And he has to fall in love with you. She just knew it. That's incredible to me. Elaine May looks at the script and a lot of people, when they say, can you punch this up? Or can you tell me what we should do? They'll say, I don't know, try and tighten it up a little bit. They give you something that doesn't really help, but for Elaine made a call up and say, here are the three things you need. This is how this clock is going to work. Never happened again. Yeah. And she refused to have her name on the credits. She said, no, it's not mine. I didn't originate it. She's I'm just called me on what a person she is. And, and I say in the book, her thing that at, 20 minute monologue, she does from the play that she did. Himmler, uh, had a, uh, a secretary who wrote. everything down yeah and they got the diary of exactly what he said and did in this and and she uh memorized it from a show what was the show called uh the last broadway but she got the tony for it deservedly what broadway play did elaine may get a tony for oh boy the waverly gallery that's it yeah kenneth lonergan that's right lonergan who's terrific writer in his own right uh he he wrote it based on the diary and she does it she she that's right she's on camera and she reads it because it's and she reads it as she's saying it and if you haven't seen it it's one of the great performances uh and she is she is i think authentically a a genius uh elaine anyway thank you sir really uh thank you this has been fantastic i hope you'll come back tomorrow what are you doing in 20 minutes um dustin hoffman thank you i think you're urinating is what you're doing uh dustin hoffman an absolute joy thank you so much for being here well thank you and is it wrong to ask each of you to say your name so i can say thank you my name is matt and it's a pleasure thank you matt thank you uh aaron aaron thank you aaron sona sona eduardo eduardo adam adam thank you all for being a part of it no no that's fine that's fine no he doesn't need he doesn't okay just not maybe he could no he doesn't conan conan yes and there's a reason why your name is conan too we don't know what it is my father just wanted me to have an interesting name that's right and because and it's not it's not scottish it's irish no it's not even technically an irish name it's like an old british uh it was like an early uh i think it was a maybe the first i don't know like maybe a very very early celtic bishop who was in england or an english person who went to ireland so i don't even know if it's technically a gaelic name i don't know what it is so i think you say you don't know where you got the name from conan yeah i don't know my father found it he didn't know about conan the barbarian he didn't know about those books he didn't know anything about it he just thought it was interesting name gave it to me and then arnold schwarzenegger ruined it his movie i could tell you a quick schwarzenegger story yeah you ever got a schwarzenegger story let's hear it quickie uh i was in the swimming pool in hawaii that's where we took the kids because there's a place in hawaii if i can remember where you could let them go and it was contained yeah it's called the island of hawaii the entire the entire island they can't swim you're pretty good the volcano specifically so you're so you're in a swimming pool hawaii or something it's enclosed so you can let them go yeah and i'm in i'm in the swimming pool and suddenly i realized that uh schwarzenegger is in the swimming pool uh just a little distance away 10 feet away and i'm a i can't swim worth a shit you know so i need to be standing yeah like i i love three feet away of water there's nothing like it you know that's where you do your best swimming yes i do swim in three i i i do that stroke in about three feet so that when i'm done my feet hit the bottom that's important you can feel the bottom so there's schwarzenegger and i said oh my god uh arnold schwarzenegger oh it's nice to meet you oh it's nice to meet you too and we just start chatting and he's i i realized very quickly he's bright very bright guy bright and uh he's funny yes he is did you have him as a guest oh yeah i've encountered him several times he's just he's very quick and funny yeah warren beatty who i've known for years wanted to be governor and he got beat by schwarzenegger schwarzenegger did it first and then it was anyways oh yeah go ahead so so what happened when you're in the pool uh it's one of those things you remember sun's out three feet of water whatever is there talking and he said i think i asked him a question i said i asked him about reviews we somehow started to talk about reviews and how you really feel when you get a bad review and i said the worst part about getting a bad review is that you can't counter it sometimes you don't even know who it is right i mean it's such a cowardly job yeah you're reading it the critic isn't there so you can't argue it out with them you can't defend yourself yeah you can't sometimes you don't even know who it is they they don't take responsibility saying i i said this and i said so and it hurts it doesn't hurt because of that and he said i said how do you how do you i said i'm still angry about certain reviews in fact bob duvall my old roommate carries a a horrible review he got off of the first off off broadway play he ever did he carries it in his wallet yeah so schwarzenegger's i said so how do you feel does it probably he says he looks at me he says with this accent which i won't attempt to uh it was a great line he says did you ever think in your life in your whole life you would ever be this successful and you would be standing here on this island paying this money for you and your family did you ever think that would happen i said no he says i didn't either so he asked how i deal with it i say take your best shot yeah that's a great line that's great take your best shot go ahead take your best shot because i got this yeah he's not wrong no and there's a cruel thing i don't know what it is and you've mentioned in the book but you can have 10 000 people say something nice about you if one says something negative that's the one you remember they may be the one who's right conan o'brien needs a friend sonam of sessian and matt gorley produced by me matt gorley executive produced by adam sacks jeff ross and nick leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by jimmy vivino take it away jimmy our supervising producer is aaron blair and our associate talent producer is jennifer samples engineering and mixing by eduardo perez and brendan burns additional production support by mars melnick talent booking by paul davis gina batista and 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