Dustin Hoffman Part I

Hi, my name is Dustin Hoffman, and I would feel great about being Conan O'Brien's friend if we ever hung out, and he is not called yet. To be fair, Dustin, I call you many times, someone who sounds a lot like you picks up the phone when I identify myself, that person says he's not here. And then hangs up. Here, you can call me. Yeah. Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring. Hello, is Dustin there? This is Conan O'Brien. Who is this place? That's the person! I am his housekeeper. Either he's not here or in the bathroom. Okay. I'm going to call cut on this right now. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell. Brand new shoes, walk and lose, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hello and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, joined by Sona Misesian. Hi. And, of course, Matt Gourley. Hi. And I am the aforementioned Conan O'Brien. I want to, right up top, say that apparently Sona has had a life-changing, orgasmic experience. You are glowing. You are glowing. I'm a different person. Right now. Tell us what happened. So, three of my best friends and I went to Vegas this past weekend, and we met new kids on the block. And this is your group. I mean, you've talked about this for a while to me over the years. These are my homies. So, me, Christina, Veronica, Angina, we went to Vegas, and we met them and watched them. They have a residency, and it was just the greatest night of our life. Although, Veronica's not a fan. So, she just… And you're outing her here on the podcast. I know, yeah. Did she meet them? Did she get a picture with them? She was kind of… We kind of, like, just brought her along. Did she say out loud, as you guys were taking the picture, I am not a fan? No, no. She was actually really cool about it. But now they're listening to this, and they're thinking, wait, what's wrong with her? Because that's how I would react. Well, what is wrong with her? Yeah. That's true. What is wrong with her? Are any of these women piss? Yes, Christina. Okay. You call her piss. I call her piss. Okay, classy group. Or pissy. Okay, so… Let's talk through this, because I know new kids… Some of the new kids lived near my parents' house in Brookline, Massachusetts, for a while. Yes, okay. And I used to see groups of young women waiting outside, hoping to get, like, a glimpse of Joey. And they'd have signs and stuff for Joey. And then, I may have mentioned this once before, it doesn't matter, one time, one of the ladies drifted over to my parents' house. I happened to be there at that time, and I was visiting them. This is after I'd been doing the late-night show for a couple of years. And they were outside my house, just one person. And I went outside, and she said, yeah, things are pretty slow over at the new kid's house, so I thought I'd wander over here. You're like a consolation bride. I was a consolation house to hang outside. Oh, my God, you understudied. And then I said, well, if you want, I could, you know, I could take you and your friends out to dinner. And she said, we're good. No, I'm kidding. I didn't say that. But anyway, it was, it was, they're a big deal. They're huge. I don't know their songs. What are some of their big hits? I mean, Step by Step. Step by Step. How does that one go? Hangin' Tough? Step by Step. Yeah, Hangin' Tough. Hangin' Tough. Yeah. And The Right Stuff. Yeah. There's Cover Girl. There's Tonight. Oh, it's time to go do it. It's time to go do it. No, it's not. It's time to go do it is not, they were actually wholesome, because they were, you know, young. Right, right, right. You're my kind of gal. Is that them? You would be terrible in a, in a, any kind of boy band. You would be really bad at it. I got the riz. Stop trying. What? Just stop trying. But because we talked about it on the podcast, their team, this guy Marcelo on their team, was like, come to Vegas, and we'll hook you up. And he did. So, describe what the situation is, because I don't know what the equivalent would be for me, you know, but. Well, to give you an idea, my friend Christina wrote a letter to them when she was eight. Piss. Piss. Wrote a letter. Wrote a letter to them when she was eight. Uh-huh. And she didn't send it out, because she was too nervous. So, she brought it with her, and gave it to Jordan. And it was like, really sweet. She's like, I am Christina. I'm eight years old. I love you guys, especially Jordan. She spelled his name wrong. And it was really sweet. But like, they were our first crushes. They, you know, we loved them. And then they were on stage. What year is? Chirating, and our like, eight-year-old selves were like, oh my God. You lost your mind. Yes. And our, and our 40-something-year-old selves, too. Yes, and, and, uh, so, they, were you listening to New Kids on the Block music all the way to Vegas, and all the way back? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and Veronica was like, can we put on Tool? And we're like, shut up, you bitch. Tool? She went to see Tool like, days before. Okay. But yeah, no. Wow, that's a nosebleed. Yeah. Oh my God. From Tool to New Kids on the Block? You know, most people wouldn't survive that. There's nothing like that classic rejoinder. Shut up, bitch. That's why Sona's, when she argues in front of the Supreme Court, it doesn't go well. All right. I would like to shut up, bitch. I'm saying that to Clarence Thomas. Yeah, Justin, yeah, Justice Hagan. Shut up, bitch. Bitch, shut up. He could use a shut up, bitch. No, it was, it was one of the best nights of our lives. Wow. It really was. And, um, so that was it, a photograph and some chit-chat. Some chit-chat. Yeah, they, I mean, they all knew that I was affiliated with you. They're all fans of yours. Like, Boston. Yeah, you've got that accent down, all right. Boston. Yep. That's how the Hulk talks when he visits Boston. Boston. You know, Donnie Wahlberg was in Band of Brothers. He played Sergeant Carwood Lipton and he's like the emotional center of that thing. Yeah, good actor. I know, he was really good at it. Good plug. I don't know why you're getting the word out on a new kid's guy. I was just trying to, On Band of Brothers. Yeah. Let me, let me, let me see. How can I phrase this? You're trying to connect them to me. Well, not only that, but I was, I was also trying to have a moment with you, but I should have known better. No, no, no, no. I should have. No, I saw a chance. Why would I do that? I saw a chance to put you down and I took it without even thinking about what a good guy you are. Yeah, let me try it again. You were trying to be kind and sweet to me. Hey, yeah, I was trying to be kind. You know Donnie Wahlberg, right? Sure. Fuck you. Hey! Hey, buddy. That's not right. Shut up, bitch. You're my ride or die now. All right. Well, that's a nice experience you had. It was. It was. It's interesting to, you know, because I was doing something recently where they were showing me like incredible Beatles stuff. I can't say too much about it right now, but I was getting to see some things that most people don't get to see. And it's going to be for this project that's upcoming. And I was trying to explain David Hopping was there and he could see how exciting it was for me. And I was trying to explain to him what this meant to me. And I said, I guess for you, it would be like if you got a chance to hold Tate McRae's thong. Oh, my God. And he got so mad at me. Everyone in the room laughed really hard. I think it's the way I said it. I said, imagine if you get to hold Tate McRae's thong. I'm impressed that you pulled out Tate McRae. Who is Tate McRae? There you go. Yeah. Who is he? It's a she. I think she's one of the new ladies that. She was one of the like from Dance Moms, I think she was one of the young dancers. And then she grew up and she's an incredible dancer. She's a great performer. Yeah. And she, you know, she's got a body for days. She's tight. For weeks. No, it's not. No, no. She's booked it for weeks. No, but weeks isn't. It's not. You're messing it up. It's days. Days. Your body for a millennium. No, my God. And why is your voice sounds weird. Got a body for eons. Stop doing it. Just stop. But you know what else I remember? I remember that time you Buddy Holly's amp. Yeah. And you were really excited about that. You and I were in Nashville. We went to Gruen's and they said, hey, Conan, we know you're a huge Buddy Holly fanatic. They showed me one of the last amps that Buddy Holly owned. They took off the back and you could see once you take the plate off the back, you could see that Buddy had written his name into the back. Then they showed me Tate McRae's song. This just reminds me of that time I got to get my hands on a skein of Harris Tweed yarn. Oh, I love that you're playing into the role I've cast you as unfairly. All right, let's do this. We have a very important show today. Yeah. Yeah. My guest today is a Hollywood legend who was starred in such iconic movies as The Graduate, Rain Man, and Tootsie, just to name a small percentage. It's mind-boggling how many iconic films this man has helmed. He now has a new memoir titled Look at Me. I am honored. He's here today. Dustin Hoffman, welcome. Dustin Hoffman, it is an honor to have you here. I know you don't like that kind of compliment, but it just is. It's an absolute thrill for all of us to be in a room with you. And I am elated because I read your autobiography, Look at Me, this weekend, and I loved it. It's fantastic. Thank you for reading it. Are you a quick reader? I am a quick reader. I'm a fairly, no, I want to say I'm not that quick, but I go back and reread things a lot because there are certain stories here in this book, not certain stories. There's maybe 75 stories in this book that are just absolutely fantastic. And there is so much to talk about. There's so much to talk about. I want to say, I'm going to tell you one thing, which is I had an encounter with you that really makes me laugh. You and I were at a bat mitzvah together and uh it was adam sandler's daughter was having a bat mitzvah yes you were sitting uh on the table it was a big table and you were opposite me and i'm sorry but it's a big deal when you're sitting at a table with dustin hoffman i grew up adoring all of your your work and i'm like oh my god it's dustin hoffman i'm sitting next to david spade's mother and david spade's mother is so thrilled that you were sitting across the table and she says to me that's dustin hoffman going and that's dustin hoffman i said yes mrs spade that's dustin hoffman she said i'm gonna go over and i'm gonna tell him how much i love tootsie it's my second favorite movie ever and i said okay great and she said my first favorite is amadeus and i can't wait to go over there and tell dustin hoffman my first favorite movie is amadeus and my second favorite movie is tootsie and i said you're the best mrs spade just go up to him and say i love tootsie it's one of my favorite films and she went that's not the truth the truth is amadeus is one and i kept telling her how to say it and then she gets up and she walked over to you and i can't the beauty is i couldn't hear anything i could just see her talking and i could see you getting the news my favorite movie is the one you're not in my second favorite and it was a joy for me you were absolutely delightful to her but it was just a joy for me and i kept telling her how to say it and i kept telling her how to say it and hilarious how old was she then i think she was 107 i think i went with her yeah you did and i think that's her getting even yeah it was she said you two were an item one date yeah you're a big item in 1955 she said yes that's when i graduated high school actually that was the year and we have things in common by the way because i looked you up uh-oh what did you find out we're both from la no i'm not from la i moved to la i'm from boston originally that's right but i moved to la well sona and i are from la you must have been thinking of us you're probably looking us up no no it was no i think it was dustin i'm gonna say this i don't think we have anything in common are you not six foot five yes so didn't you get teased as much about being the tallest and i got teased for being the shortest yes see yes and it was painful it was painful yes you're gonna think i'm kidding but i'm not i always look for points of commonality how can i relate to this person who's accomplished so much and there are real things that we have in common you start this book by proving one of my theories which is you are cast it's your big break you're just hold one second yeah i won't do this because you those who have a thing will it'll hurt oh my god no i'm sorry it's it's it's i'll tell you why after you finish your story it's going to be a 40 minute story you should probably hydrate before we get into this story about being my age which is 89 is that you lose the sensitivity at the tip of your nose so it's dripping and you don't know it that's why many times i carry this and i just do this especially if i'm on the air because if it's dripping and you don't know it people think it's because you're old it's not because you don't know you're dripping right okay go ahead i have that but it's not my nose oh killer right no no my anal glands what did you think i was talking about my dick oh god okay let's clean this up this is on you guys and that's not an edit that's staying in why is anal associated with being uh what is it uh like super tight type a fussy why isn't it from anal retentiveness yes and i think i think it's probably probably a freudian uh stage i think anal retentive meant you're you're holding it in you're you're tight yeah yes um what so what so what's the opposite of anal oral does that mean you don't hold it in oral expansiveness is when you are just as chill i'm sorry i am looking through my notes and i don't know this area anywhere i'm looking through dustin hoffman questions i don't have anal and oral in here that's because it's in his book um you were getting get your big break you're cast in a broadway show you are burned in a kitchen accident this is how you start the book and you try everything you can to hide the fact that you've been injured because this is your big break you're pain you're you're really uh hampered you're not able to do your thing they let you go you think oh my god it's over for me and then you later realize because you didn't do that play you did the journey of the fifth horse that's the play that gets you noticed mike nichols sees you that's what gets you the graduate the thing that happened that you thought was the end of your career was the propellant the thing that puts you where you were supposed to be i have found that to be true many times have you and it's amazing yes propellant yeah propellant yes i thought you were accusing me of something don't point don't point but isn't that an amazing it's an amazing thing can i ask you a question yeah are you a speed reader uh no i'm not i read at a medium pace because you got about 60 of what you said correct which is not bad you kind of just scanned each page i'm just it's a question i don't want to hurt your feelings because i know you're six five we have no more time this is the shortest podcast what did i get wrong there i believe that i was correct there but uh let's just say the gist of what i said is correct is that fair uh can you look up just what would you guess german is it german or would it be i love that you can look up words now and you can get it immediately what would you guess just is british what the root is just yes yes it does sound german it sure does i'm feeling german you got the gist the geist the spirit you got the geist is it what what am i doing why are you saying it like that i don't know i think i'm auditioning for dustin hoffman i desperately want to be in a movie as a german guy who says gist all the time i can guarantee it uh comes from the anglo french legal phrase say action gist meaning this action lies gist that's gist so that's the gist of it that's the gist of it yes but do you agree that you started this book with this story of you encountering this terrible obstacle but it all ends up leading to you having this iconic breakthrough in your career the first thing i'd like to say is there is a woman who is a co-writer of mine and if she wasn't uh uh there for me this book would never have happened i have written maybe others here can i say how many people are in this room yeah one two three four five six seven counting both of us yeah uh if you've ever tried to write a memoir it's you get about a page or two yeah and then so i have like 20 30 notebooks because i kept trying over the years and i always thought it was the notebook if i got a different notebook i would do it yeah but you know it wasn't the notebook so she is ex was extraordinary and i and it was written with her yes and she was absolutely at that time the most important person in my life ariel levy and what made her brilliant have you ever thought of having a memoir uh yeah i do think about it because i have some kooky stories yeah you got to get ariel levy if you can for two reasons one is the brain you remember certain things and you remember certain things and you remember certain things and you remember certain things and she would ask me questions and your brain kind of has stock answers to those questions because you've been asked before yeah so i would give her the answers then she would ask me questions about my answers and that was suddenly you know what short-term memory is yeah well there's also long-term memory which comes in when you're old and suddenly i remember it's miss sutcliffe who was my third grade teacher yeah yeah is that true no it really it's funny you often people think they don't remember and you are in this enviable position which is you have made an absurd number of iconic films and you've had you've met everyone and you've you've participated you've been such an important person in the culture over many many years and then suddenly you're supposed to remember all of it yes but what happens is you start talking and someone says something that's incorrect and you go wait no no no that was miss sutcliffe third grade she she she drove a sob it was green and suddenly all these things are coming out that you didn't realize you could access do you remember the first teacher that knew that you should do be a comedian uh you know that's interesting uh it took a long time there were many who said don't do that um i actually remember that i had a camp counselor i went away to a camp i didn't have any friends there i wasn't that happy i would have been at that time maybe 11 okay and i was very lonely and then on some long hike i just started uh babbling this crazy story about a giant bird that lived in the woods and adding all these details. And this counselor started laughing so hard he was crying. And he kept making me go more and more and more. And then when we got back to the camp, he started walking around telling everyone this kid, the weird kid with the red hair, with the bowl haircut. And that kid is really funny. And I think it was pre-puberty. Do you remember if you had hair under your arm? No. Dustin, I hit puberty during Obama's first term. Okay. I remember. And puberty rejected him. Puberty said, we're good. Yeah, but we all remember that. It's funny because you talk about your father in this book. And I've always had a saying in the back of my head, show me a successful creative person and I'll show you someone who had a complicated relationship with their father. Right. Your father wanted to be in show business, ended up working in props, but he did not have success. And he had a hard time being generous initially about your success. Yes. And he had this line when you got the graduate at the age of 30 and overnight became a cultural icon. In the book, you say your father said, do you know how lucky you are? That's exactly the words. Yeah. But he was right. He was right. Because I'm Benjamin Braddock. Six feet two, debating squad. And I'm the short Jew. And Mike Nichols didn't even change the name from Braddock to at least some non-Irish Catholic name. Do you realize how many people don't know because your performance is so iconic, they don't realize that the book initially, Benjamin Braddock is blonde, blue eyed. He should be played by a Robert Redford. That's true. Who he wanted. He wanted Robert Redford. Yes. Yes. When he casts you, many people think, what is he doing? What is Mike Nichols doing? Including you. You were very insecure during the making of that movie. It's the worst experience of my life. Working. In fact, when it was over, I said, I'm going back to the theater, which I had been doing for years and years. I'm not, you know, I'm ethnic. Yeah. I'm not in a town that's had a facelift. You know, I want to be. I want to go back with my people. And they did make a big mistake, you know, because Nichols, just before he died, and I'm still sorry he died, he, I just thought of something else. Who was it? The George Burns on his hundredth and one birthday. He said, if I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. Not a bad line. But, but Nichols, he really abused himself and he was, sorry that he did, because he admits it in his own autobiography. And this is interesting, I think, is that he didn't know, he had been looking for two years for this character, Benjamin. No, Redford turned it down, I think. And he asked a lot of other people. And then he realized that when he was writing his own memoir, and he only had four, he knew he was terminal. He knew he had an incurable illness. He confessed things. And this, this was shocking, which I never knew. He was a cocaine addict. And I realized that's the reason he was so nice to me. And, you know, because when he was high, it was wonderful. The next day, when he's on a downer, it was, he was, he was abusive. He was, and, and he admitted it. He, he said in the book, he said he, he worshiped Bob Surtees, who was this legendary cinematographer. And he, he overheard, uh, Bob Surtees, uh, say something. And, uh, cause they had to do it over again or something. And he heard, he heard Bob Surtees say to his crew, that's okay. It'll be over soon. And I think it had to do with, with the drugs. Poor guy. You say in this book that during the most memorable scenes in The Graduate, which are, you know, all enshrined in the American Film Institute, in those great scenes, you at times thought, I don't know, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And that was a disaster. That's what you're thinking as you're making it. Yes. Which is very hard to believe, but I believe you. I believe that that's true. That's how you felt. I can ask you how many times when you started telling jokes, did it not get a laugh? There's no record of me ever not getting a laugh. That's when we've looked into it. Got it. Over, over 7,000 hours. You have it wrong. And you know what's incredible? What's that? You have it wrong. There's no record of a laugh. Oh. Yes. I got it. Backwards. No, and it's interesting because I routinely would leave the set after a show and feel terrible inside. That didn't go well. I didn't connect. That was awful. And people would say that was really good. And I would think they were lying and I'd be upset. And maybe they were. I'm sorry. You're a terrible person. I'm realizing that now. And I regret that you're here, but you're here and we're going to get through this. You. I have to interrupt. Family? Tall? I come from. Yeah, my father, I think, was about. Yeah, I think my parents were tall. I'm taller than my parents. I have a brother, Justin, who's very tall. And so, yeah. It was. There was genetics there. Same here. Same here. I am the tallest one in my family to this day, including people that married other people who were not in the family. I'm literally the tallest person. I don't. I used to find that an interesting thing to say, and I don't as I'm saying it. I'm going to strike that. No, no. You're not going to strike that. That's really funny. And also, I could see that. It must be nice when you're. You're a towering giant when you hang around these relatives of yours. That must be a. Yeah, it's a good feeling for you. Is that redundant? Yes, it is. It's a. Yeah, I'm sorry. There's no giant that isn't towering. I don't want to be here. I just don't want to be here. I do. I'm loving this. I'm enjoying this. You live for. I've always wanted to ask you about this because it's insane to come here. It's insane to contemplate. But you grew up in L.A. You moved to New York. You want to be an actor. You're doing a lot of absurd odd jobs. You're working at. Is it Macy's where you're selling toys? You sold toys at Macy's. Adult games, which was different in those days than it is now. Or adult toys. They were toys for adults. In fact, what's that thing called? Like foosball. Foosball. Hockey. Yes, hockey. Yeah, where you move the little guys. Yes, and I had it on my side, and then someone would come just shopping or whatever, and they would take the other one, and I would use it to try to, you know, beat them. Yeah. And I started to get good at it. And because I'm an actor, this won't be a long answer, I looked up and I realized that there were a lot of hockey players that were French, and a lot of them got hurt playing hockey, and I tried to be a retired, hurt, French hockey player. Literally. And this is great. In the next booth. No, I did, and I mentioned. You had a French accent? I had a bad. I'm never as good at accents, but I wanted to try it. But Gene Hackman was right there at adult games also. What? Yes, you know what I love? So this is the thing I was getting to. First of all, when I was reading the book and it said, for a while I sold adult toys. Oh. And I thought, what? And I just pictured you with, you know, standard equipment. Yes, dildos, et cetera. I wanted you to say it. Yes, right. I thought you were a dildo salesman. Can we look up dildo? And then I was crushed. Would you like a dildo? What do you think, is it French or German, dildo? It comes from the Latin, "dildas." They had them back in the day. They had dildos back in the day? Oh, I'm sure they did. They go back thousands of years. The early ones were made of stone, not fun. I was into them. What's that? So, excuse me, Sona, please. I'm trying to conduct an interview with a legend. First appeared in English print in the late 1500s. 1500s dildo. English print. It was a dildo, Shakespeare's day. Yeah, that makes sense, doesn't it? So you, you're working, your job at Macy's is just to sell the toys. All they want you to do is say, you might like this, it's a hockey game. Here. And show you how it works. Isn't that fun? What's a French accent? But you decide, this is you, you decide, I need to become a French hockey player who's been badly injured and has been, and is now down on his luck and selling toys at Macy's. And you use it as an actor, acting exercise. The second craziest thing to me is you go home to your roommates and they are Gene Hackman and Robert Duvall. The three of you live, it's like, I'm picturing a bunk bed. A bunk bed with three levels and you guys are snoring in unison like the Three Stooges. that's what i'm picturing that's crazy that you all live together did we didn't live together quite like that but did you in my mind you did okay you can't did you live ever i'm guessing because you said that you yourself at some point in your life lived in a bunk bed and did you want because this tells me a lot about your personality if you had your choice did you want to be on the upper or the lower yeah are you a top or are you a bottom i'm a top i'm a top i always wanted to be on the top i thought that would be cool i never got to sleep in a bunk bed until my freshman year of college when that's what they gave us is bunks but you chose the top i chose the top i wanted to be on top i've always wanted to be on top it's saying it a little my greatest thrill would be to be on top okay it's a little a little you guys aren't understanding me my erotic fantasy yeah um okay we got it no we got it um well you certainly don't want to be on the bottom if the top is 350 pounds again i'm looking through my notes i'm not seeing this anywhere i'm seeing all these things to talk to dustin hoffman about father odd jobs roommates uh fame um i'm gonna go with fame okay you had an interesting experience which very few people have you became famous overnight at the age of 30 you make the graduate you're an uneducated unknown the movie doesn't just become a hit it's a cultural phenomenon many people think that it ushers in the death of the studio system a complete new kind of film it is endured as a classic and then you don't know how to handle this one second sorry you get two more of those and then that's it i'm not doing that to try to get attention sure because it's by the way your book is called look at me so i think you're going to get a lot of attention i think you're going to do anything to get attention we all i don't think you need to blow your nose that often i know what you're doing um but i am dripping i am dripping go ahead you're dripping i told you about the dripping already yeah you were not happy about suddenly being famous well but the truth is is that i was miscast i mean did i say this already no no you mentioned that you you you're the only person in this room that thinks it was a mistake for you to play right benjamin braddock and the graduate what do you think the sir what i can say sir yes you can sir what are the odds of someone being in basically their first film with the best director of all time at that moment i mean who would you compare him to today maybe what spielberg or something that was nichols i mean he was a god yeah he was the god and to be cast in that and not only is it a hit but as you said it's it becomes this phenomena yeah what's the odds a million to one two million i mean it has to be so you suddenly people are coming up to you you can't go anywhere people come up to you they want your autograph at least it's before selfies so no selfies but that's right you had a a little bit of an allergic reaction probably to just suddenly this is your reality that everybody knows who you are do you always want me to answer the first thing that comes to my mind sure like in an hour or two you're supposed to do yeah i'm your therapist now okay allergic i have had a life my first reaction i've had lifelong acne literally i mean i take accutane three times a week or else i'd be look like a 15 year old i mean there's an upside to that testosterone but we don't want to you know belabor that and i'm 89 and i still have you know lifelong acne so i said i will never make another movie again after that and i went back to the theater in new york because i it was a horrible experience i was fighting acne i was short he thought he made a mistake as i said you know he told all his friends you know i miscast the lead which he did uh and mike nichols is telling everyone i made a mistake yes yes and uh he's not really dealing with it because of his addictions yeah and uh so you thought i i did that film it's a big hit i don't want to do that necessarily anymore at all and then you proceed to make there's almost too many to mention we were just naming our own generations favorites and every one of our generations has a number to pick from there's so much but it's interesting it's it's marathon man all the president's men uh i see you know kramer versus kramer uh hook i mean midnight cowboy midnight cowboy sona comes in ranting about hook she's a completely different generation yes so is eduardo and eduardo both are big hook and so you've you've managed to make these movies for every single generation it's very interesting to me that you after the graduate you're thinking well that's it for movies for me and then you proceed to have this streak that i don't think is rivaled by anybody well not not sure maybe you're right i can't tell but i do know that i was supposed to be as i say in the book i was supposed to be the failure in the family yes my brother was a triple a student was an athlete he was asked to be on a uh a major baseball team when he graduated he chose uh college anyways uh because he thought he'd have a longer career and i was supposed to be the failure i was a designated failure i was very comfortable with that and i even failed at that it was your failure to be a failure yes it's your true failure yes well you can do that yeah and that was painful you say in the book i think it's a quote you said um i cannot stress this enough nobody expected anything from me you were a very bad student the worst the only reason that you got into acting was because someone told you it's like pe class you can't fail so nobody fails acting i mean nobody fails uh uh jim i mean you get a c right okay you failed jim i failed jim yeah yeah no you couldn't i i made that up i just thought it'd be fun six foot five my god yeah guess what no coordination that's the problem i had the height but not the coordination and again uh no testosterone in my body until obama's first term um what about your sport what was it i was a runner for a while at six five yeah it was a mistake they made me a distance runner and i looked like uh sort of a red-haired gazelle um but a sickly one like a tubercular gazelle running across why not basketball uh because you need to care where the ball is i never cared where the ball is so they would toss a ball to me and i'd say i could grab it or i could think about this funny bit that's in my head you know is that give me the ball give me the ball oh i didn't want the ball i would say no one give me the ball i didn't want the ball i still don't want the ball right uh waste of time to have that ball um you have to have a sport today though right i think everyone has to have a sport really yeah i'm late you have to have a sport um there's this it's such an insane picture but it's a famous picture you finish the graduate the graduate comes out massive success you were paid three thousand dollars for your role as benjamin braddock in the graduate three thousand dollars now i know that went a lot further back in the late 60s but still three thousand dollars you didn't have any money and so you went back to the unemployment office and someone at life magazine took a photo of you yes the most famous face in america at the time waiting in the unemployment line to get a check yes fifty dollars fifty dollars fifty five i think was the most you could get yeah and so which you could live on i mean you could live on back then yeah 200 a month it was now that that's one smoothie at arowan yes um and not the good one uh you have so many great stories about your co-stars uh people that you worked with over the years um and your process for making up these characters after the graduate you have this chance to play ratso rizzo in midnight cowboy john schlesinger the director was going to make the movie midnight cowboy he needed to get finance in yes so he said he couldn't get it he couldn't get it so he said they and he's probably told if you cast dustin hoffman who's now a big star you can make this movie he didn't want you he thought because he saw the graduate that that's who you were yes so you have to convince john schlesinger and again just like you at macy's you decide i'm going to become ratso rizzo and convince this director now don't oh i shouldn't interrupt them no no go you you may interrupt me okay well since i am you're taking a drink out of a cup with a deer on it yeah is that an accident no i chose this mug i i love this guy i love this mug and um you ever you can tell it with that very have you ever shot an animal i never shot an animal never i never never took a bow and arrow to a deer no i i threw a hammer at a rabbit once that's that's weirder length wasn't a long i just and you know what the rabbit was doing nothing to bother me and if i can go further it was a petting zoo i'm sorry dustin yeah it's not i did some time for that it's okay we all pay for our crimes um where the hell was i did it die instantly or is it somewhere is there a crippled no he was he missed no i i i got him it just hurt his leg and then there was lawsuits and the rabbit showed up in court that's why they always sit up on tubes are they there's some guy with a hammer listen we're not going to get we're not going to get into why i used to go to petting zoos and throw many times hammers at small okay that's my thing that's how i get off now um yes if i may yes it wasn't just john schlesinger i was i it's funny because you're still you even if you become a star you're still you behind that and i was very angry that the public did not think i was anything but ratso rizzo benjamin braddock oh yeah yeah you're mad that people thought that you're thinking i'm an i'm an i'm an actor i'm trained i i i do a lot of work and method uh and which is another subject but go ahead yeah but i mean you and suddenly you have a little bit of a score to settle because you want to show people no i i'm not benjamin braddock i became benjamin braddock for the graduate now i'm going to become ratso rizzo that's why i took the part yeah was to get revenge against the world yeah i wanted to prove yeah because that's who you are behind everything you're still trying to prove that you're an actor yeah and i hated humanity and that's why i took and in fact mike nichols calls me up it's one of the great moments in my life and he says what are you doing and he's talked in that sing song you know what are you doing and i said but he says you're playing this what do you say this tubercular limping yeah this is a testable character and it's not even the lead it's a supporting part why and he said why are you trying to do this and i said well i'm not trying to destroy i made you a star ah yeah and it was i was i loved the fact that he had said that because that is the reason i didn't work for a year i didn't want to be a star i only wanted to do good work yeah i never i didn't because i was the failure of the family my brother was the star yeah and there are people there's a basketball player who was that legendary uh the guy who's jalen brunson yeah jalen brunson yeah he said a great thing he says if you're ahead by 30 40 points why do you still care that's what you're still trying as hard as you can he says i wanted the reason i do the next shot he says because i want to see what i did wrong i want to correct what i did wrong that's a great answer so it's got nothing to do with anything but the moment i want to yeah i don't i want to correct the mistake i made so i don't make that mistake again yeah but that has to be true with you too well i think it's a it's a it's a uh hunger that doesn't go away and i i remembered once it's a good way to put it i think we used to have young people come in sit in the audience at the late night show and ask me questions they were students and um interns and they would come in and they got to just ask me questions and i remembered one woman who might have been i don't know 19 20 years old said when do you stop worrying about your life and being anxious when does that stop and i said i got bad news for you you know and at the time i was in my late 40s and i said it doesn't it never does correct you need to be hungry you need to be scared not terrified but you need to be scared yes and we're all pushing for that we're all digging into that and i think your decision to take that role of or to try and get the role of you saying i have now given myself a whole new challenge most people would say i just i just did the graduate home run aren't i great you said no no now i have really have something to approve and uh it became fuel for you i wanted revenge yeah i wanted revenge against everybody yeah i love that he said it's a supporting role yeah it's but i don't as i said that's i think not getting a laugh you want revenge because you want to get the laugh no you end up meeting schlesinger in times square in a dive coffee shop you haven't showered you're dressed like a bum you you're dirty and you show up to prove this is who i i can be this guy now yes and i don't know if it still exists because everything changes but anybody from new york here you know what an automat was oh i do oh yeah those vending machines you put a quarter in and you get a sandwich yeah and like some of them were on 42nd street when 42nd street was 42nd street it was it was literally open 24 hours and i said meet me at hornet because i had been there at three in the morning when i was literally trying to research the character that's one of the places i followed one guy who had i you know actors are crazy just like you know comedians and you know you you're you're looking for the right limp you know forever you're following different people you're trying to figure out what's the right limp for ratso rizzo and you're following people yes and the guy who wrote the book james leo hurley he literally said it in the book he says you're like the fifth wheel he says it's like it's you're like this it's wobbly yes and that's the limp and so i was trying to get that limp and i saw something that was extraordinary which everybody who knows new york knows for some reason new yorkers are waiting for the signal to change and for some bizarre reason why there can be like 20 of us there want to be the first to cross yeah yes why is that still true still true they want to be the for what i i'm look here i got here before you guys and i thought that that was ratso that he would not only get across but with his limp he wanted to be the first one yeah and i you start to learn from little things like that you put together who this guy is going to be yeah and then i even thought the concentration camps and he was a survivor and you didn't ask yourself why and how did he become a survivor yeah because we know that there were some people who came became a survivor by giving up other people but the point and i thought that's ratso right he doesn't give a shit he really doesn't he just wants to be there so it becomes more three-dimensional so you're he does he's not a good guy yeah and i said and it's very easy to be heroic or something when you think about that but you don't know what you would do if you were faced with instant death no but they were going to let you live if you gave up someone else yeah the um very easy to be heroic in the well people love to answer a quarterback later on and say i wouldn't do that none of us knows that's right who we are when there's a gun pointing at us that's right and we hope not to find out that's right um so did you ever have a gun oh i'm sorry what did you ever have i know you're thinking of because you're thinking of killing me at some point no i'm just thinking i know what you'd be like with a gun please please take dustin huffman don't take me did you ever have a gun pointed at you i've never had a gun pointed at me have you had a gun yes i did when and and props don't count i was having this is in my youth youth yeah i was having an affair with a married woman oh and she thought that once her husband went to sleep that he stayed asleep and i was invited to come over after he came he went to sleep and there we are having a festival of sorts and he walked in with a gun and he pointed out me and he said i remember what he says get out get out and when you have a gun pointed at you first of all that hole is much bigger than the actual hole yeah and you realize how any second any second he's going to pull that trigger because his finger is on the trigger and you think any second he's getting you realize it's it that's it that's it you're gonna i'm gonna die i'm gonna die the next second the next second the next step and you do anything you will do anything you know to avoid yeah getting so you jumped out the window you ran away continue the festival no sir could you come back in five minutes i need five make it seven minutes um there's a story in here of you making marathon man with sir lawrence olivier and i never realized how sick lawrence olivier was during the filming of marathon man he's essentially dying he's on and he knows it he knows it and he's on a lot of medication pain medication there's cancer throughout his body he had trouble getting insurance for the film they finally get him uh insured and you're shooting one of these iconic scenes i'm going to use that word 700 times in this interview you're shooting a scene with sir lawrence olivier and you're doing the wide coverage cameras are far away and he's kind of acting out to the rafters like he's projecting you know you know the diamonds the diamonds it's very loud and you think that's okay the camera's got got it's a master yeah it's a master And it keeps getting closer and closer. You keep getting closer and closer. But he keeps reaching for the balcony. And the director, again, John Schlesinger, says to you. I go up to him and he says, I know, I know. He says, I know he's over the top. That's what they say. He says, but I'm not going to tell the greatest actor in the world. If you want to, you can. Yes. Isn't that great? I'm not going to tell Sir Lawrence Olivier he's overacting a bit. So you go up to him. Yes. And you try and do it in this very polite way, right? You have a suggestion about, you know, we could try one where we. Maybe we use a little more of the way we're rehearsing, where we're just doing lines. We could try one like that. Like we're just doing lines. And he knew exactly what you were talking about. Yes. Because of the medication. I mean, here's a guy who had three parts in repertory committed to memory. You know, Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear. Literally in repertory. Knew all three of those word by word. And here's a guy who can't put four words together because of the medication. Yeah. And so we prompt him when we're in wide shots and we get closer and closer and closer. And we're at a break. And I go up to him. And I, again, as I said in the book, people call him Larry. And I could not call him Larry. And I didn't want to say, you know, Sir. So I call him Lordage, you know. Lordage. I love that. Yeah. And we were, I said, you want to just run the lines a little? And, you know, while we're, you know, just to try to keep him in his head. And we went behind, it was outdoors. So we went behind a tree or something. So we'd have some privacy. And we're doing it. And then I'm kind of coaching him. Yeah. And he's just standing there. And I said, let's just, let's just run the lines, you know, just for, you can even look at, you know, the script for the day or whatever. And he gave me this long look. And he knew. Because you were encouraging him. Let's try some takes. Now that the cameras are closed, let's try some takes where we kind of take it down just as a fun exercise. We're talking right now to each other. We're talking right now. Let's try it like that. And he knows what you're doing. And a very long look. Yeah. And he said, so you think I'm, I'm playing it a little too big. Yeah. Am I over the top? Yeah. Are you a little over the top? And what's amazing is he looks at you and he says, thank you. After a long beat of eyeball to eyeball. And it makes me emotional. Yeah. And he says, thank you. Yeah. And we were very close after that. It was awful what he had. He knew he was dying. Yeah. And he, Bob Evans, who was the producer, some, he had a genius when there wasn't Coke coming out of his nose. Yeah. Because he, and by the way, he was, that was a time when you went to a party and there were lines of Coke, you know, on the, on a table. Everybody snorted. You know, I did. And it was, it's, by the way, it's the greatest. It's the greatest drug in the world. There's not, there's not. And I thank God. Let's get that word out, by the way. No qualifiers. It's just the greatest drug in the world. Thank God I'm allergic because I couldn't breathe after that. I was allergic to it or I wouldn't be here now. Yeah. But because you're right there. You're right. I mean, Coke was in Coca-Cola. Coke was in it. Yeah. In the original Coca-Cola, there's cocaine in there. Yes. And then some idiot took it out. Yes. Yes. Yes. The original Twinkie was pure methadone. Cocaine used to have Coke in it. Can you believe that? It had Coca-Cola in it. Oh, okay. Yeah. You're an idiot. And so am I. And that's why we get along. That's fair. Okay. This merits two parts because there's just way too much to talk about. And that is your fault. I am thrilled that we're doing this. Stay tuned for later this week when we have part two of my incredible chat with Dustin Hoffman. We'll be right back. I was trying to think of a natural response. That was super natural. That was not natural at all. And I also tried to dig. You just stated that this is what we will do and now we're going to do it. And then you restated it. You're the pharaoh saying you must leave Egypt and now we will leave Egypt. I have that kind of power? You do. You are fired. Yeah. It sounds like you were. Enjoy those locusts. Were you trying to insult him? No. I don't believe you. I think he was. Because I think you were. The way you said it. He was making a comment. He was kind of mocking the way I did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you did it in a very, you know, you will now fasten your seatbelts for we are landing. And I think that was a crime in its own way. I see. What? Yeah. Okay. Conan. I'm spiraling fast. I know. Let's just go ahead and play the voicemail for Christ's sake. Hi, my name is R.C. Graham. I'm from Akron, Ohio. So my intent, as inspired by a video from the University of Illinois, they made a couch you could drive around. And my intent is to make a desk you could drive around. I love the reoccurring bit on late night. Now, I looked at a site, more specifically, it was an article about the auction for the last late night desk. And I got the dimensions at about 48 inches by 24 inches by 29 inches. But if I could get some more details, that'd be great. Like, what is that plywood? What are you using to finish that? Because while I'm not a woodworker, I'd want to make it kind of nice, at least like a lot of your desks going through. They had a kind of a nice finish. But kind of, as I understand it, late night desks are kind of crummy on the inside. I don't know if you can. We're late. Anyway, my intent is to kind of get an idea for the dimensions, get an idea for the weight, figure out the overall material. And as an engineering student, my goal is to use it as kind of a vehicle to practice the mechanical aspects while I'm currently learning the electricity. Feel free to answer as you please. And I hope that you're all doing okay over there. Have fun and stay safe. Bye-bye. Okay. I put a lot of thought into all my desks. That I had over the years on the talk shows. I would always insist on ash. And then I would use birch. I would sometimes use a studding, which was made of mostly a durable old English oak. I'm sorry. You were using these to make your own desks? I was giving the specifications. Okay. You were close. It wasn't 48 inches. It was 48 and a half inches. Oh, okay. I always make sure that each desk, after the woods were applied and resined with a high-density polymer, that they were baked in a kiln for seven hours. The desks were valued by Lloyd's of London of having a worth of about $600,000 each. Okay. They are prized possessions. Let's face it. I don't know anything about these desks. Was it really up for auction? It does seem that it was up for auction. I found the picture here. Did anybody buy it? I'm not sure. That's kind of crazy that your late night desk was up for auction. Yeah. It was up for auction. And then when no one bought it, they threw it. They threw it in a dumpster. And the final bid was $26,000. Wow. Yeah. First of all, I don't know who would auction that off. Like, who took it? Who sold it? I mean, NBC. I mean, I'm looking at this auction site. You know, when you think of auction sites, you think of like Christie's, Sotheby's, Julian. This is R.L. Spear Co. Incorporated. I'm just curious. I'm wondering who's got the sticky fingers over there at NBC. It doesn't matter. It's also funny. This is Lot. 78. It does not say your name. It just says host's desk from early era of popular late night talk show. Approximately 48 by 24 by 29. He said popular. Hey. Starting bid, $1. And then the question is complicated because, yes, there are some of my desks out there, I guess. There was a thing that you could do at the NBC store for years and years because Andy and I would do a bit where we would get behind my desk. And using green screen, we would have all these adventures driving around. Yeah. And that was a lot of fun. Then NBC, the NBC store turned that into an experience where you could sit and ride the desk with me. And so I've met many people over the years who said I was 15. I visited New York with my school. I waited in a line and I drove the desk with you and I still have the tape, which is fun. That's nice. That's cool. How much do you think this desk? This desk as did you make this desk? I did not make it. First of all, Eduardo, again, props to you for designing a studio. You are a master. But I don't know. I don't know who made the desk. Eric did. Eric Boers. Eric Boers made this desk. It's beautiful. Yeah. Eric's awesome. Yeah. I can't wait for someone else to have this desk in a few years and auction it off for $800,000. Is that how much it is? No, it's not going to get that kind of money. Who knows? I am curious. RC asked if the inside of the desk, like obviously the facade looks fancy. Does the inside of the late night desk look crappy? This is custom made for you, I'm assuming, right? Yeah. It was custom made. Yeah. You know what I will say about, that's a good question that Adam asked. The inside of the desk had sort of a nice finish because it was on television. It's HD cameras, lighting. It has to look good. Not HD when we started, by the way, for years. But then we went to HD, as all shows did. But what's really fascinating is if you saw the reverse angle of the desk, where my legs went and everything, it was, I mean, it was just about as down and dirty as it gets. It was just like a wooden slot for me to put like a handkerchief in or something and a pen. There might have been a. Like a sort of crude trash can back there that was nailed to the side, but no finisher anywhere. thing it really was uh it was a set piece and my side of it looked like the thing had been made in five minutes by a bunch of drunken rabbits that's cool anyway i i'm i'm looking at this and i'm seeing a walnut veneer on top okay and then with a little walnut on the outside with a birch ply inset on those uh do you think that's what it is seriously because that would be my guess you're quite good it's actually very good looking and i'm wondering why we didn't bid on it that's yeah it is a great looking desk and i'm surprised you don't want it and i just didn't not that you don't know about it yeah i know i didn't know about it i i i didn't know that it was uh i mean it was not my property i guess it was mbc property and my guess is someone came along and said i'll take that but look at the difference in this this kind of stark lighting photo and then when you see it under the stage lights it looks so gorgeous it was a really beautiful desk yeah you know what's trying to get it so it's been sold to someone blay how long has it been sold for you 26 i'll i'm gonna do uh i'm gonna do a little research here and we'll see if we can get it for you yeah i mean i'm not gonna put up any money oh okay well you just want it i think we're gonna find out where it is and steal it just a heist let's do a heist stolen it when you could have i'm surprised you didn't steal more stuff i didn't know let's do a heist late night you didn't just grab a bunch of stuff no i didn't shut up i had my eisenhower mug that was on the has been on every talk show desk i ever did anything with it's and uh that that i kept you still have that mess still i still have that never broke or anything um it got a little cracked and we made a fake one to sub in for it oh wow uh but i have the original oh and that other mug greg made you greg daniels made me a mug that was always on my desk yeah um i still have that good friend yeah what says i hope you fail on it and and the eisenhower says that too doesn't it yes that was from joseph stalin to eisenhower yeah um wow okay well i i don't think we help this guy with any of his questions good luck to you go online look at that desk and do the best you can and i do uh i will say matt gorley is very talented all around very good at woodworking so your guess is about what it's made of are probably correct guess though i can't tell totally from that because it's it's clearly been like built and then stained but for kind of tv it's not it's not necessarily like a also remember to match my overall vibe it probably looked okay on camera but it's not necessarily like a it's not necessarily on camera but it's rotten to the core all right good luck to you sir conan o'brien needs a friend with conan o'brien sonam of sessian and matt gorley produced by me matt gorley executive produced by adam sacks jeff ross and nick leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by jimmy vivino take it away jimmy our supervising producer is aaron blair and our associate talent producer is jimmy vivino and our associate talent producer is jimmy vivino and our associate talent producer is jennifer samples engineering and mixing by eduardo perez and brendan burns additional production support by mars melnick talent booking by paula davis gina batista and brit khan you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at sirius xm dot com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded