363. Dustin Freckleton, Founder & CEO of Happy Health

The reality is is that people need the ability to interact with healthcare on their terms and where they are, not the other way around. And so our model is really to flip on its head, sort of the traditional, the doctor will see you now approach and say, no, it's the patient will see you now. And that means finding the patient where they are, meeting them on their terms, speaking to them in a human language that they understand that recognizes them as an individual, not as a condition. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the Fittins that are podcast. I'm your host, Joe Vanary. Today I'm joined by Dustin Freckleton, CEO of Happy Health. In this episode, we discuss building a wearable lead platform that combines clinical grade monitoring with physician-led care. Plus, we talk about the company's recent FDA clearances for sleep diagnostics and blood pressure monitoring. Why Happy Health is approaching wearables as a medical device rather than a wellness product? And how is insurance-covered model aims to make preventative care more accessible? Let's get into it. The Fittins that are podcast is presented by E. Jim L. Pass. While pass makes fitness more accessible, it connects employers with thousands of premier gyms and studios to subsidize access and lower barriers to participation for their team. Employers get a benefit and employees actually use. While clubs and studios get more members without additional marketing costs or administrative work. To see how it works for both employers and fitness partners, visit eJim-wellpass.com. - Hi, Dustin and welcome to Fittins that are thanks for joining us. - Thanks so much, Joe, good to be here. - Yeah, I'm really excited to chat about everything you have going on at Happy Health. But for folks who maybe aren't familiar, could you just give us a quick introduction about you, about Happy, and then we'll get into it? - Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Dustin Freckleton. I am the physician founder and CEO of Happy Health. At Happy Health, we like to tell people that we exist to make it so that people never have to go to the hospital again. And I know that sounds a little cheeky and a little ambitious. But the reality is, is when you look at the over $5 trillion that we spend on healthcare in the United States every year, 90% of that is on chronic diseases. And by definition, chronic diseases are things that people live with and experience in their home, not in a hospital setting. And so our mission is really to move healthcare out of the hospital and into the home so that we can help people to manage the conditions that they are living with and to thrive. And the way that we do that is really three key pieces. The first is we have a FDA-cleared medical scanning technology that embeds into a wearable ring, this right here, the Happy Ring. The second is an AI health intelligence layer that wraps around that, that creates a physiologic fingerprint of every individual, establishes a personalized baseline for them and identifies health changes immediately as they start to occur. And then finally is wraparound clinical services. So when we start to identify changes in health baselines that we have clinicians in all 50 states who can help to identify, to diagnose, and to treat a large and growing number of medical conditions all in your own home and all insurance covered. - Yeah, it's super interesting and thanks for laying the platform out that way. And I think maybe the first thing this thing is out to me, obviously I've followed the company a little bit and had a chance to familiarize myself with it, but maybe for listeners, the fact that you kind of start from this baseline of clinical care, FDA approval, like you're trying to tackle chronic disease, whereas obviously there's no shortage of wearable devices, many of which maybe started with step tracking or performance or sleep or whatever the metric is and there's a huge push to try to get into healthcare, maybe back into healthcare. Why and how did you start from that place? Was that the kind of vision all along? And of course, how have you started to tackle it? Because it's, I would imagine it's super challenging. - Yeah, and it's a great question. When we started the company in early 2020, our vision at that time was to take what we saw as sort of two awkwardly co-existing worlds, right? On one side was wearable devices that had great usability, great form factor, great material selection, all the things that we love about wearables, but the data quality was lacking. And on the other side, we saw medical devices that had great accuracy, but awful form factors. You had to use user manuals to figure out how to plug it in and how to power it up. And it just, it wasn't user friendly. And it turns out that it doesn't matter how accurate a device is. If it's sitting on your nightstand, it's not creating value. And conversely, it doesn't matter how often you're wearing it. If the data quality isn't there, as they say garbage in, garbage out, it's also is significantly limited in the value that it's able to provide for the individual. And so from the very beginning, we realized that there was an opportunity to build a different device from the ground up. And our perspective is that it is easier to consumerize healthcare than it is to healthcareize consumer. And what that really means is if you start from a first principles perspective, solving the hard underlying technical and clinical and regulatory and compliance related problems, you have a foundation on which to be able to build an extraordinary experience that is both consumer initiated and physician led, that has the best of both of those worlds. And so from the outset, our vision was really to be the catalyst of collision of these two worlds, to build a medical device that could masquerade as a consumer device, and that could provide an everyday healthcare experience in somebody's own home. - As you think about that, I'm just again, myself thinking about various wearables I've used, or maybe listeners who have a device on their wrist or their finger, you could be saying, well, if that sensor technology exists, and they're able to get XYZ FDA approval, will every kind of wearable do that? Or why don't they do that? How challenging is it? What does that process look like? When you say basically designing the device from the ground up with that medical focus in mind, not the consumer focus in mind, what does that process and steps look like, and then how does that become defensible in the broader category? - While on the outside, a consumer wearable and a medical wearable can look identical, underneath the hood is where the real difference exists. And it includes for sure differences in sensing technologies, it includes differences in data architecture, differences in algorithm development, and how they're designed, one of the major differences that we have compared to other devices that are out there, is we take an end-of-one approach to all of our algorithm development. And what that means is that what everybody else does is population-based approaches to algorithms, where they will take a little bit of data on a lot of people, they'll create a histogram distribution of what is normal, they'll build an algorithm around that, and they assume that every person who ever uses the device thereafter looks like the average of that training population. What we know from healthcare is that that's not true, that by definition, only a very few people truly live in the middle of that distribution, that there are wide variations in varieties, demographic, age, health profile, you name it. And if you take a population-based approach to an experience, you significantly limit the accuracy and the speed of which you can identify and predict medical conditions. And so we instead, in an end-of-one approach, take a tremendous amount of data from a very limited number of people in our case, it's one person. So every single night, the Happy Ring collects 2.8 million FDA-cleared data points on every single person. And what that means, Joe, is that you have a unique algorithm for you that's different from dustins and different from everybody else's. And so when we understand what your physiology and your baseline is, any change, both a change in the right direction, or in some cases in the wrong direction, can lead to much quicker identification and indications of appropriate next steps. And so there are so many aspects in how approaching devices from a medical first versus a consumer first approach impacts early decisions in materials, in design, in quality, in supply chain, et cetera, that it really, when I say you have to start at the ground floor and kind of build from the bottom up, it really is true or else you find yourself in a situation where you have great ambitions to move into healthcare, but you're not really able to. Yeah, that makes me wonder if you, on one hand, it's, you know, the fact that wearables have become kind of a mass-parking consumer device is super favorable, right? When you think about happy health, like people have an awareness of what a smart ring is and why they might use it and what it does. And yes, you can have all these kind of different layers and focus around healthcare. But on the other hand, does that, do you look at the kind of broader category and say it's a usefulness or, efficacy issue more broadly with a quote-unquote wellness wearable and then that blurring the line with the medical device or do you maybe not even focus on that relative to like what you're trying to achieve? The fact that wearables are so prevalent in the market today is a huge benefit, right? There are a lot of other wearable devices out there that have proven the form factor that have proven that people care about understanding and owning their own health metrics that they care about sleep, right? When you look at sleep as a metric, it's the number one most requested feature. It's the most search for health term on Google. People care about it because it's impacting their daily life and these wearables that are out there have proven I think very well that there is an appetite and a nascent desire for people to be able to understand themselves at a level that they don't. I think where those devices fall short is that by enlarge that they focus on data and insights rather than focusing on actions and outcomes and that is I think really the bright line that separates us from any other device that is out there that when you have an AI model that is simply regurgitating and repeating information that you already know like hey you slept poorly I don't need a device to tell me that I know when I slept poorly I wake up angry and feeling it right away but when you can move from that sort of in-the-rear-view mirror approach to health care being reactive to being more proactive now all the sudden those AI models can start to identify issues before they even rise to your conscious awareness can predict events before they occur and so we can build on top of this ground swell of interest and excitement around health care and even now this shift towards the consumerization of health care and we can start to deliver a completely different experience that again I think moves from a more engineering first approach of data and insights to more human approach of action and outcomes. You teed me up perfectly for this question that I had in mind around how taking this end-of-one approach you do have kind of the individualized data and algorithm as you described it how is that showing up maybe in the app is it the same with like a you know sleep or readiness or performance scores or is it what I what's user experience like what metrics are we tracking and then knowing that you have this clinical network how do we go from those kind of metrics and tracking to interventions and outcomes yes so we refer to our experience as sort of a well-care experience every day wellness with punctuated health care so from a wellness perspective every morning when I wake up I'm going to get the same type of insights and notifications and reports like I would get from any other wearable that's out there so the things that we love about those devices that help us to be able to plan for and prepare for our day exists in that sort of wellness aspect of the happy experience but we punctuate that with health care when it's needed and appropriate so living on top of that wellness experience we have our AI health intelligence system that identifies those deviations in health baselines that characterizes those as either being medical conditions that require some sort of medical intervention or not and we raise that to the conscious awareness of the individual but only when it matters so we're not going to hit you over the head with notifications and reminders to do things that either aren't contextually relevant or that aren't appropriate from a timing perspective we're going to identify those when they're needed and help you make that next right step super easy and it turns out that when people have received insights based off of their own data and they understand what that means and that there's a simple next step they're far more likely to take it and so that's where our clinical layer comes in is when those events are identified we can bring somebody out of a wellness and into a health care encounter meeting with a boarded sleep physician for example or a physician in another relevant specialty of medicine all in via telemedicine so all from your mobile or you know device or laptop in a telemedicine console so this is covered by insurance I'm not paying for this out of pocket my insurance benefits are covering this experience and we can help the person to be able to connect those dots to what is going on and what is the most appropriate next step or action for them in some cases that's a lifestyle modification in some time that in some cases excuse me that is a health care decision or a treatment that is required and in a seamless way we connect people to that so that they can take those steps and they can see the benefits of those immediately as those metrics start to resolve and improve themselves and they can see the the outcome of those good choices that they're making in their house it's really interesting you said a couple things there the insurance coverage the kind of elevating triaging almost to physicians when necessary then the ability to get treatment and you can tell me treatment I presume could mean a lot of different things in terms of prescriptions or beyond life-salmetic modifications but prescriptions or anything that they the individual may need how do you think about them the role of physicians in kind of this like wearable driven health care model right because there's countless kind of articles that are written about doctors that are overwhelmed with customer or patients coming in we're showing them there whatever wearable data and say hey what do I do about this and that's really about like hey how do we integrate wearables and health data into the traditional care model your approach seems to be different in that it's basically built in kind of reverse engineered with that physician in the loop physician-guided care so how does that kind of play out maybe different from traditional care models yeah as a physician one of the things that I learned very on is that there are two critical pieces to health care delivery and as a physician you have to be good at delivering both of them one is the clinical side which is really about the diagnostics it's understanding the underlying physiology pathophysiology the chemistry the things that are going on that are affecting either normal body functioning or a disease state and that's necessary in order to be able to establish an appropriate diagnosis for an individual but just having a diagnosis is not enough the second half of that which is equally important is the behavioral side of medicine is I have to be able as a physician to communicate that to you in a way that is simple that is understandable that makes me as the patient desire to take that next step and feel motivated that I can do it and that it'll make a difference and where AI is extraordinarily good at pattern recognition and at diagnostics and helping physicians to be able to see patterns and make faster determinations from growing datasets AI is not good at the human side of medicine at helping somebody to feel heard and understood and valued and motivated and I think that's where the combination of the technology and the clinicians comes together is the ring and the data and the AI can help us to be able to identify disease states much faster and be able to continuously scan for and monitor in a way that no human or team of humans ever could and then we empower a clinician who is a compassionate knowledgeable caregiver with that to connect with the patient and help them on their journey. Certainly in line with all that but I don't remember the exact sequence of how this played out but company announced you raised $75 million I think this summer then there was the clearance for the sleep diagnostics which may have been before that and then also more recently the blood pressure monitoring FDA clearance it seems like to this point a lot of this has been happening happening relatively under the radar at least you know compared to companies that are preparing to go public in the wearable space what is like the kind of day-to-day at happy like what have you been heads down on how have you been you know going to market in terms of acquiring customers like just recognizing there's like some major milestones that are happening and it's not at this point like a you know mainstream kind of name or company it sounds like you're about ready to change that though we have been very much in in build mode up until now very much under the radar focusing not as much on marketing and and promotion, but on solving the hard problems. from a clinical and a scientific perspective so that when we sort of came out and started to tell our story, that our success, we believe, is best driven based off of the success of the platform and the unique value that it brings, not necessarily the size of a marketing budget or the household kind of brand name recognition that maybe some of our competitors might have. We believe that if you start by solving the hard problems that people experience on a daily basis, that the product sells itself and that that is manifest in the daily lives of thousands and millions of people who are benefited from that. This episode of the Fittance that are podcast is brought to you by E. Jim Wellpass. Wellpass is corporate wellness that actually drives movement. It connects employers to a large network of premier gyms and studios, helping subsidize access and make it easier for employees to participate. For employers, that means the benefit people will actually use and habits that they stick to over time. And for fitness operators, it means more members coming in consistently without extra work. To see how Wellpass supports employers and fitness partners, visit E. Jim - Wellpass.com. And then the kind of recognizing that a lot of that foundational work has been laid. Some of the clearances, FDA approvals, I'm sure building that clinician network, the $75 million is that growth in terms of consumer marketing awareness is that continuing to, I'm sure, build out the platform, but you can tell us how do you think about basically putting that money to work? Yeah, so the platform is really built at this point in time. The funding is for building out our clinical network and scaling our commercial reach. Again, we're talking about a lot of this in the context of I think how a lot of people understand the wellness wearable market. But is it device purchase, subscription, insurance, you mentioned insurance kind of playing a role in that? What does the business model look like? What are people actually buying and paying for? How does that translate into you making money? Yeah, so one of the most unique things about Happy is our insurance coverage. So one of the benefits that comes from being an FDA-cleared, clinically validated device is that rather than somebody having to choose to come out of pocket to purchase a device, in our case, a medical device, that their insurance will do that for them. And it turns out that when you can drop the cost of ownership from hundreds to, in some cases, even thousands of dollars down to, in many cases, free or heavily subsidized by an insurance plan that I already have, it changes the equation from an access perspective. And now all of a sudden, rather than only people with significant amounts of disposable income being able to avoid these, now all of a sudden you can democratize access. Because my insurance is covering the entire or the majority of that. And so in our case, if somebody comes to Happy, whether or not they use their insurance or they choose to pay for it out of pocket, they're coming in, they're getting a device, that device is going to do a comprehensive brain body scan. It's looking for those underlying disease conditions. And then a clinician is going to meet with me to review those results, to answer questions, to connect the dots between what I'm experiencing symptomatically and what the results of my tests are showing. And then creating a personalized care plan that is specific to my needs and my goals and my motivations. So every single person who comes onto platform is going to have the opportunity to use their insurance, the vast majority of people do because it just makes it more affordable. And every single person is going to have a combination of that device and doctor experience to be able to help me have confidence either in what I'm already doing or confidence in what I should be doing in that next step in my journey. So one of the things that I alluded to was having recently received the FDA clearance for blood pressure monitoring. This has been something when you look across the landscape. A number of companies have been pursuing, none have they quite been able to get there in terms of achieving that clearance and be able to do it for the consumer market. Can you talk about, I think a couple of things, one, what that means for happy and then two, just how you were able to do that, maybe some others have struggled to. Yeah, thank you. You know, we are incredibly proud of the FDA clearance that we just announced around cuffless calibration, less blood pressure. And what that means in more human terms is that we have essentially killed the cuff no longer do you have to go in and have a blood pressure cuff inflate on your arm or on your wrist while you're sitting still to take a measurement. Now simply putting on a ring will continuously measure your blood pressure with clinical grade accuracy on an ongoing basis. And blood pressure is many people don't know this is the single largest modifiable condition for the single largest cause of death and disease in the United States, which is cardiovascular disease. So we're measuring the most modifiable, modifiable condition of the most deadly and destructive disease that we know today. And this at a macro level is a $219 billion industry in hypertension management and control. It grows to 400 billion when you look at it in the context of cardiovascular disease, which is the sort of end state that many people experience as a result of that. And right now we don't have a way to measure it without putting on a cuff usually in a clinic or a hospital setting. What that means is there's 120 million people in the United States who have hypertension. Three quarters of them are not managed. And it's not because we don't have good medications, we have great medications, but it's because people don't know that they have it and they're not able to monitor it and therefore they can't manage it. Imagine if we were talking about diabetes here for a second and said, yeah, well once a year, you're going to get a measurement and then we're going to use some medications and we're not going to see you again for a year in good luck. We hope it works out for you. That's not how it works. You measure on an ongoing basis to make sure that you are adjusting so that you're hitting the right values from a medication and more importantly from a physiology perspective that you need to be healthy. Well, this is sort of our CGM moment for blood pressure in the ability to now be able to passively monitor this on an ongoing basis and help to address the underlying medical conditions and the complexities that come from high blood pressure and the disease states that result from when it goes for years unchecked and unmanaged. What was the stumbling block and then what was the thing that you were able to kind of unlock that is preventative from being more ubiquitous? The thing that makes us different as a company is it goes back to what we talked about before Joe. It goes, it comes down to the sensors and the way that we approach data that is coming off of the human body. If all that you are using is sensors and sensing technology that everybody else has, it means that you're starting from the same sort of like block of clay that everybody else has and you're limited in what you can create with that. We designed our ring from the sensor up, including medical grade sensors, including proprietary sensors that we designed, built and patented that doesn't exist on any other wearable device today. We did that for the express purpose of being able to solve these kind of frontier problems in healthcare that other wearable devices haven't been able to and it really starts with the underlying sensing technology and the way in which we're able to pull that data out of the human body in a loose wearable in the context of somebody living their everyday life and all of the kind of messiness that comes from a data perspective with that. I guess the last question on this, do we arrive at a place where it does become commonplace or is it a matter of basically everybody would have to either build it from the ground up or just kind of, I don't want to say scrap, but you know, almost do away with the existing hardware and devices that they have to be able to then implement the blood pressure, you know, cuffless blood pressure. Yeah, so it's a great question and there's a lot of different ways to take that in answer. I will say we're not the first people to think about putting blood pressure monitoring into a wearable and we are definitely not the best funded or the largest team or, you know, any of the other advantages that many of our competitors carry. To the point of, will this become sort of ubiquitous in the industry? I absolutely think so, but I'm talking about that more at the patient level, more than at the manufacturer level. I don't know what other companies are going to do, but what I know is that when people start to understand that they can take healthcare into their own hands, literally putting it on their own hands, that you're going to see a gravitation and a shift to devices that offer that over devices that don't. It may be early at this point, because you think about, you know, really ramping on the marketing customer acquisition side. But both in the wellness world, we've seen whether it's devices, but I'm just thinking more recently, even, you know, some supplement makers who are going through clinician and B2B enterprise channels and consumer channels, or rather healthcare channels to get distribution. And then of course, when you think of something like GLP1's various weight loss medications, whether that's offered through employers or healthcare and how that becomes subsidized, are you thinking about all these different channels in terms of growth? Or is it primarily, hey, we're going to get the market to the kind of end user consumer and then get them to use their insurance? You know, we believe in meeting people where they are. So if you are awake at two o'clock in the morning, doom scrolling on social media, trying to figure out why you're not sleeping, we're going to meet you there. If you are using a GLP1 for weight loss or for managing another comorbid condition or trying to improve your sleep quality, which many people are, we're going to meet you there. If you're going into a TRT or HRT clinic because you're struggling with low energy or other things, we're going to meet you there. If you're going into your dentist's office and your dentist is looking in your mouth and sees that you have chips and cracks on your teeth and that you have a small airway and labor-breathing, we're going to meet you there. And that means finding the patient where they are, meeting them on their terms, speaking to them in a human language that they understand and that recognizes them as an individual, not as a condition. And I think that's where the magic happens and that's what really separates the happy experience from other traditional healthcare experiences. Recognizing that it is different that, you know, this kind of healthcare and preventative healthcare and clinical focus, medical device. What metrics matter when you talk about measuring outcomes, you know, there's on the consumer side, it's pretty straightforward, like users, number of people that are buying it, number of daily active users, monthly active users, are they continuing to engage or are they continuing to pay, whether or not, and there's a lot of questions actually around this right now, like, is it making people what is making us any healthier, is it making us any better, are we getting closer, we just kind of obsessing over those metrics in a way that's actually making us unhealthy. So what kind of metrics do you point to it, happy to say, like, this is what matters is kind of like what we're tracking, and this is how we'll know ultimately if we're having the impact that we want. Yeah, we have three KPIs as an organization. The first is time to therapy, making it fast and simple for people to access the care that they're looking for. Right, good to use an example of this, in sleep, it takes on average six months for somebody to go from starting a clinical process to getting a diagnosis of what's going on. That's a long and a highly fragmented journey somebody goes through just to get a prescription. At happy, it takes us less than 11 days. The fastest we do is five days and most of that is just shipping time, waiting for the device to arrive to your doorstep. So, speed to therapy is critical from the perspective of helping people to stay motivated and preventing them from getting lost to follow up and just falling through the cracks. The second KPI for us is ZSAT scores is making sure that we are creating a consistently delightful experience across the entire continuum of care. And we're different from other wearable devices that are really a physical device in a mobile app experience. A care journey isn't that simple. It's not that single threaded. There's a lot of different decisions and steps and interactions that have to occur and maintaining a high customer satisfaction rating across each one of those is incredibly hard, but is actually part of the unfair advantage. I think that we maintain as a company of making sure that people have that white glove, high touch experience every single step of the way. And the third and final one is clinical outcomes. It's, you're great. You made somebody happy and you got them to therapy quickly, but if they're not getting better to what end. And this is actually one of the biggest problems that we have within healthcare is that most of the money is being spent on treatments and therapies, but very seldom do we actually have a feedback loop to know if it's working. Is it doing any good for that individual or is it just costing that person and society a lot of money? With happy every single one of the therapies that we offer to our patients, there is a feedback loop of data that is passively collected on the ring. So not only are we able to show clinical outcomes at a combined sort of aggregate level, but much more importantly, we can show it at an individual level. So when you take that step and you're willing to make a change in your life, I can reinforce that change with data that's showing you that it's working or data that shows, hey, we need to adjust this. Or if I choose not to move forward, which as a patient is my choice to make, I now have the opportunity to see the impact of that and choose if I either want to persist in that course or not. But it moves from a very kind of patriarchal approach of, I'm the white coat, I'm in charge, I'm going to tell you what to do to saying, I'm going to empower you with data in information. I'm going to surround you with caregivers who are willing to help, but you're not a liability patient in this journey. You are the asset. You are why we are all here and we are here to help you. And so it's those three KPIs are time to therapy, CSAT and clinical outcomes that really drive everything that we do. You know, we've talked about no shortage of devices, competitors, landscape and the aspiration, I think to shift from reactive care to proactive care and get out of this kind of sick care system. And we want to be able to use the health data that we're collecting to then make better informed decisions and hopefully intervene or predict and forecast even before issues become, you know, chronic and then deteriorating health. I don't know that I've heard it articulated in terms of like, okay, but like how and when do we get there? I think when you laid out is pretty close or at least among the closer kind of road maps to actually doing that because I typically ask a question, you know, of course, when relevant, like somewhere along the lines of is it, is it a matter of building a new system or integrating into an existing system, recognizing that it probably doesn't work the way that we want it to, I'm speaking of health care. And there's, you know, it's kind of just like this, oh, well, we kind of to deal with what we have because when it does get to the level of chronic or acute, like we, we have to treat it so then we have to kind of enter the system. In a way, you're kind of talking about an integration that like actually serves the user user and patient while, yeah, using that system when necessary, but hopefully kind of like working around it or at least making it less relevant or less engagement with it because it is so patient centric. So there wasn't a question in there, but I was just kind of, you know, digesting out loud what you said in terms of this road map really for how you do what you said in the opening, which is like, hey, we want to proactively, you know, combat chronic disease and illness. And this is how we think we get there. Absolutely. You know, there's a lot of talk in the industry right now about AI and the AI of health care and pacing the frontier and new models that are being developed at an extraordinary rate. Our perspective is that the future of health care is AI, but it's not in the model. It's in the data. Data is the gold models are the tools that mind the gold. And ultimately, if you want to be able to deliver on this vision, our perspective is that data, which is the gold is going to be the real value that is helping to unlock that possibility. And that data in our mind has three key pieces, which is what our data infrastructure is built around is it has to be real world. It has to be comprehensive and it has to be proprietary, right? Real world, meaning it has to represent what is my actual lived experience, not what is that single value that happens when I'm sitting in a doctor's chair and who knows how that compares to my actual baseline. It needs to be comprehensive because we're not a single value. We're not a temperature or a heart rate or even a blood pressure value as important as that is. We are a composite of all of these biomarkers and all of these body systems working together. And so we have to be able to look at it from a comprehensive 360 degree view. And then the proprietary nature is really important just from a value creation perspective, right? It's what makes us different from everybody else is we're not just using off the shelf components and sensing capabilities. We're pushing the the end. of what is possible. And we are bringing to market new sensing capabilities at the sensor level and at the measurement level that can help make all of that possible. And then I think an easy one as we wrap up, we'll get you out of here on this. Where should people learn more, fall along anything else you want us to know about? Happy. So if you want to learn more about happy, I invite you to go to happysleep.com. We have a consumer-initiated physician-led platform for people to be able to experience the product for themselves. We are firm believers that when people take their health into their own hands, that they are going to be able to live the healthiest and happiest version of themselves and of their lives. And that's what we're here to do. Perfect. We'll make sure everything is easy to find in the show notes, get everything linked up. But Dustin, thanks so much for joining us today. Really enjoyed it. Joe, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you got value from the conversation, please consider subscribing and sharing the podcast with a friend or colleague. It's a massive help. And if you want more content like this, including news and insights on the latest industry developments, subscribe to the Fit Insider newsletter at insider.fit.co. And one more thing, you can learn more about our recruiting and consulting services at fit.co. That's f-i-t-t-t.co. I'll see you here next week.