[MUSIC] >> Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Jordyn Robinson. Joining me today is the beautiful, the luminous, the sandworm of my heart, Molly Rubin. >> Joanna, I can strip down your code until you're no more complex than a game of pung. But I won't, because I like you complex. >> And these are the two things we're covering today. It's the Dune Part Three, Dune Messiah final trailer. >> Mm-hm. >> Yeah. >> The just dropped mere moments ago. >> We got to, we got to do a vibe check. We have to. >> We're going to vibe check in. We're not doing a deep, deep, deep lore diet. We're just vibe checking on the Dune, the final Dune trailer. And then Vision Quest, episode five and six. >> That's right. >> Something we're checking in on as well. That is what we're doing today, right after this. [MUSIC] All right, quick programming reminders. Our Vision Quest coverage continues. A pace, the rings of power is right around the corner. >> That's right. >> Side A. >> And at some point today, the day this episode drops, there should be an announcement of what else will be keeping us busy on our socials. >> Check it out. >> Yeah. >> At. >> Check it out. >> House of our pod. >> That's right. Something that required a Valerie to take an in-depth shower at me to apply various solvents to my myself. >> That's right. >> That is what happened after we put that together. >> Okay. >> So yeah. That's a tease for you. So that's what's coming up. Big projects, really excited. >> It's a delight. >> Yeah. >> How can folks make sure they keep track of everything we're up to? >> You mentioned the socials. So follow @houseofourpod on Instagram and TikTok. Follow, of course, the ringerverse as well. And you can see our announcement, our Wednesday announcement. You can see all the fun little breakouts from the various podcasts that we do. And all sorts of other fun stuff. Of course, we'd recommend that you follow the pod. Follow House of Our On Spodify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch full video episodes of House of Our On Spodify and Credible Stuff. And of course, on the Ringerverse YouTube channel, do that as well. So that's your emails. The inbox is always open.
[email protected]. We'd love to hear from you on the Dune trailer. Vision Quest. >> What is that black viscous liquid I would like to know? Rings of Power, Doomsday, Blade Runner. Gosh, what else is coming out this fall? >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. >> Gosh. Halloween, you know. The World Series, really anything you want to email us about or interested. What are your health plans? >> The WMVA Finals, which are on Thursday morning for some reason at 9.30 in the morning. What's happening? But the Valkyries are definitely going to win. >> You going to a bar at 9.30 in the morning? >> Yeah, sure. >> I'll see. Martini, Martini Morning. Star of Doom Part 3, Zendaya, was at the Valkyries game. >> Love it. >> Over the weekend. >> Love it. >> Bay Area Legends, Zendaya. All right, so listen. Spoiler Warning. Vision Quest, it's easy. It's everything that's ever happened in the MCU. And everything up through episode 6 of Vision Quest. Everything that's happened in the comics, that's as per you. >> Yes. >> Doom Messiah, where do you want to set that spoiler warning for Vibes only discussing the Doom trailer? >> I think spoiler free. >> Okay. >> I think anything that is established in the trailer tonally, fair game to discuss. >> There's some stuff they just literally put, they tweeted it out. >> Yeah, there's some things. >> Yeah, plenty to talk about. >> So I will say anything they say in the trailer that we're like, hey, we can talk about. >> That's a thing, we'll talk about. But anything that's shown that we're like, we're pretty sure what that is, we could just skip it. >> Yeah, this is a quick jack. So we're not going deep on the Doom Messiah plot points. But our anticipation for this film is sky high, sky high. >> And the trailer rules, so spoiler alert, there you go. >> Let's start with our Vibes only checking on the Doom part three trailer. What do you want to say, Malarubin? >> I think the trailer's great. And I really hope the movie's great. And I expect it to be. That's where we've been since minute one. And that's where I still am. The first trailer for this movie came out more than half a year ago, already, which is wild to confront. We first talked about the initial teaser this spring. We were covering Daredevil wild. >> The passage of time, astonishing. And here we are back on Disney+, with the names of the show. >> Exactly, exactly. And this movie, one of the first things taken in the house of our hype draft that we did at the top of the earth, spent something that we've been looking forward to since we covered the second Doom film. >> And what was the second thing that goes your day? >> Really good choices were made by me all year long. >> That was your first round pick, wasn't it? First round was Odyssey, Doom Part 3, Disclosure Day, and Project Hill Mary. >> Yeah. >> Memory Surfers. >> All four. >> Doom's Day and Then Hail Mary. >> All four. >> Took them in some order on the turn. >> All four equally. >> Well received and venerated. >> Yeah, all of them exactly. >> How's my fall hype meter going? >> Great, thanks so much for asking. >> There's some good stuff, so good stuff. >> But yeah, this has been one of the most anticipated films of the year for many moviegoers and for us. And it looks like it's going to deliver. I'm hyped. I thought the energy and the trailer, the mood and the tone, was so harrowing and delicious. The thing that Villeneuve has been trying to do since Minute 1, which we have been talking about since we covered the first Doom movie together. And of course in depth and the second when there was quite a bit of, Paul, you know, what's going to happen there? >> What's up with the masses? >> What's up with that murder stress, Paul? >> Yeah, you know, something we've really been stressing since the beginning is that Doom the Text, one of the reasons that we love it, and that it is such a seminal and sacred text, and there are many reasons that it is, of course, is that it is not a chosen one cool story. It is a cautionary tale. >> A cautionary tale and an interrogation of what the idea of a chosen one can do to a person, to a people, etc. And so this trailer makes undeniable. I would say what has been very clear across the films to this point, which is that is the thing that Villeneuve was most eager to explore when he's about to make these movies. >> I don't think it's just that it's undeniable. I just think it's really, especially in this third trailer, the way that they're just like, hey, Paul, pretty fucking murdery at this point. How much they're hammering it in this final trailer? I think so people don't go in surprise and be like, oh my god, what happened? Paul was my hero. >> Yes, I find this freeing because we've been talking about it a lot in around it a bit. >> Yeah, sections of our pod. >> They just, but now it's just, this is what this movie is going to examine. >> Yeah. >> And so I just, there's a lot of things they just say in this trailer, right? So if you're down with trailers, this is what we're talking about. There's an assassination plot. >> That's right. >> And an adaptive change, Chani is involved in this assassination plot. This is part of the voiceover that we hear. It's been 19 years, according to the Erelawn voiceover that we get from Florence Pew. So like 19 years of murder and mayhem across the galaxy. >> And we had previously talked in the first trailer breakdown. We did about 17 years and noted it's 12 in the books. There was always going to be a bit of an expansion of that. >> They had been saying 17 in various places, and now it looks like they're saying 19. >> The longer the better. >> We have some ideas as to why. There are kids. >> Yes. >> And not only are there kids, they're grown-ass kids. They're shown in the trailer, right? When, when, Zendaya is like, I did this for our kids, and you see him gently, urgently caressing the face of a whole last 19-year-old boy. You know what I mean? So like, was Chani, there's also flashbacks? >> Yes. >> That's right. I mean, for you a hair scholar, being able to track the progression of time, thanks to Muadib's hairstyle of the moment. And obviously, what is going on with his face with various tattoos, scars, etc. >> Sure, but like, do we believe that Zendaya and Timothy Chalamet look 20 years older? No, but we're willing to spend this belief. >> Some people just look eternal. >> They put a little bit of gray in her temple. They should, they bust his hair, but the buzzed hair is the present day. The curly hair, she's still wearing the blue scarf. That is the flashback stuff. We've seen them in previous trailers, both with them holding the babies. And then 19 years happened, and their adults in Chani is pissed because Paul has done many a murder, and as she says in the trailer, like, you promised, this is not what you were going to do. So, you know. >> I will be so curious to see when we, because we have not seen this movie. >> Let's say that, we haven't seen the movie. >> We haven't seen this movie in there. >> Large adaptive changes that are being made. >> Yeah, so there are things we're anticipating. There are things that we have seen in the trailer that now confirm certain things will, in fact, happen the way that we would expect. But there's tons that remain unknown. I'm so curious to see. I expect that I will love the movie. Who knows? >> I expect I will love it. I expect it will be great. I'm so curious to see where the movie's rank for me after we see it, because I feel like the groundwork that has been laid in one and two for what three will examine, just feels to me like likely to stand the test of time as one of the best pavings of the road for this question of prophecy and planting. It's a seed and guiding a people toward an outcome. And all of the lamentations that Paul himself voiced. >> This could be, this could be your favorite of the three. >> It definitely could be. >> I think, I wonder if it'll be the Gen Pop's favorite of the three. We'll see, because it's a weirder book, and it'll be a weirder movie. >> Yeah. >> And Danny Villeneuve has said in every interview he's given about this movie so far, this is a different movie. Right. Um, I wanted to ask you.
You on a very, very personal level. Your wife or back of Ferguson is not really in this trailer. She's been in previous trailers. She's not really in this trailer. And there's some stuff out there about, like, not much screen time coming from my wife, which, you know, tough, but I cherish my time with her whenever we get it. And there's a lot of silo waiting for me to catch up on. Should I need my fix at some point? But look, you know, you mentioned the plot that is discussed in the trailer very overtly, trying to see our paths here as sitel, you know, a great and fascinating character. So this is still an unknown to be clear, but, you know, he's a, he's a face dancer. So something that we had talked about in the prior trailer breakdown was like, is it, are they going to say, we've got Robert Pattinson in our movie. You're always going to see Robert Pattinson, or will sitel be inhabiting other forms that remains an unknown is sometimes we're seeing Zendaya is actually Robert Pattinson. We don't know the answer to that. Get interested. Are we really interested? Get interested. Our girl, Alia, just, just, uh, doing, coven in quite a bit in a few glimpsies, they're soaked in blood, also, disrobing at another point. So lots of look forward to their, um, she's 19, just in terms of 17. She's 19. It's been 19 years, a lot to look forward to in terms of intriguing story choices and, uh, much to parse, much to mine. You know, the Jason Momoa heads have been delighted for quite some time to know that over these trailers, so here we are. Our guy, Hey, it is here. That's thrilling. And, uh, I just can't wait for the movie. I simply can't wait for the movie, the war, the glimpsies of war and the battle sequences you talked about this when we broke down the, the first trailer right in these influences and how, you know, Vietnam war sort of visuals. Yeah. And some of the, some of the glimpsies that we got in this film are similar or even the same to the ones that we had seen already. But then these very tyrannical, fascistic images of Paul heavily centered in the trailer and yet we build toward at the end, a hug, a hug, that raw emotion and the question of whether there can be a path back. And that is also centered in the trailer. I rewatched every single trailer, there's been three. So it wasn't that hard. Yeah, but this idea of redemption, your past redemption, there's no apologizing for this blah, blah, like this is core of all of them. Denise has described this as a quote divorce movie with galactic consequences could not be more your shit, more my shit on a, on a visual level. So Greg Fraser was the cinematographer of the first two movies, uh, Lina Sandgren who did, he's Damien Giselle's guy, he did Babylon and La La Land. He's also a Marble Fonell's guy, he did Selper and Wuthering Heights and however you feel about any of those movies, they are visual feasts. So like, I will miss Greg Fraser because I think what he did with the first two movies, not to mention the Batman, et cetera, et cetera, is like some of the best shit I've ever seen. But I do think it's interesting to have a slightly different visual tone to this third installment, which is thematically different, right? The material invites that change. Speaking of our shit, our guy, Brian Kavan, co-wrote this, uh, this screenplay. So that is really, really interesting at the same time. Anything else I want to mention, oh, something that, so, uh, Empire Magazine recently had a big cover story about Doom Part Three, um, which you should read Empire Magazine went to great publication. I love them. Um, this is what Denise said about why he wanted to make sure that he made these movies in sort of rapid succession. He said, quote, maybe it's a good idea to go back to this project, not out of nostalgia, not because I miss it, but the opposite. I'm tired of it. I want to make sure that I will be severe with the material that I will not be complacent. So I love that that he's just sort of like, let's do it. Let's get it done. I'm really like grateful. I was like, the list, uh, I was, I was trolling around the subreddit as I like to do. And the list of things that people put out that, like, that we haven't gotten the Batman Part Two or that we haven't, like, we've only gotten like two seasons of severance or like all the things that haven't haven't happened in the span of this entire trilogy that Denise has managed to put together is like, incredible. Yeah. So thank you for this, Denise. It's like, it's like the pit of, of big trilogies there for us. Just back and regular success, you know what I mean? Um, anything else or did we do it? We were, we promised a vibes only, oh, on the, on the sort of like, uh, audio sense, I think all three trailers, yeah, have used diegetic music, whether it's, um, I think I would a suspect chony humming like a lullaby or this chanting from Paul, the way that Paul's chanting is sort of the drumbeat, the background of this trailer is actually, I think my favorite part because we, we, I mean, we thought his chanting was really, really fantastic and animating in part two, but like to hear this again, and this just sort of rhythmic propulsive wardrobe and for all of these characters, oh, and, and it opens with him using the voice on Princess Arolonne, chilling to watch him torment, you know, Florence Pugh's character. Um, however, sort of complicit it seems she may be in an assassination plot. And also she's quite a, how, she's been a jezer, so for him to be able to use the voice that way on a train, but a jezer it, um, you know, Princess is an astounding display of power. So, uh, we got some other Benny Jezer at glimpses and this, this, uh, trailer and the question of the different factions and their pursuit of power, where those, uh, lead them to common purpose and common intention and where they lead to conflict and opposition, always a fascinating part of a dude in tail. Uh, the, the airline opening was, it was one of those trailer moments that you're just like, I am blown back watching this in the best way I love when a trailer gives you that feeling. Almost as exciting as, you know, maybe glimpsing, Edrick. Yeah, maybe. Just it's almost like one, two, one A one B. Um, what's more harrowing watching him physically torment, airline or, or it's saying WB a Skydance company. You did send that screenshot. I did. It's, it's not my face. It's me, it's not my favorite thing that's happened. It's me. Speaking of evil empires. Okay. You see some of these pop or early reports on the popcorn bucket front? How can we top the, well, wow, wow. That was the question exactly. And it seems like they've found an answer. What is it? So I will say that there seems to be we're heading in a very phallic direction for the receptacle that many people might already have at home. If the reports are to be believed, I don't understand. I'm going to be more exposed. Okay. I'm going to show it to you right now on camera. Okay. I don't know if these are real. Let's see. How many of these? Stay tuned. So I know you, you, you purchased this shihelled popcorn bucket. Yes. How many novelty popcorn buckets have you actually purchased? Too many. How many? I got, did you get those? Those are the Hail Mary ones, the Hail Mary ones. I got the, so I got graces. Space suit helmet and Rockies. Uh-huh. Bubble. Uh-huh. And I have to say I'm thrilled to have both of them. Though I've not used either for popcorn. No, no, no, no, no. I do them for popcorn. I, when I saw fantastic four, I didn't buy one, but they like, we're giving out merch bags at that movie, not the screening. Just so I went with Adam to see it and they had our theater. They were just giving out merch bags and there was a popcorn bucket in there. Okay. Which Adam has kept. He liked it. There's another popcorn bucket that we have. You don't have the Odyssey one. Didn't get the Odyssey horse though. That was a cool one. But it was two. You've been to my home. Yeah. And I, I would say, I think we need a new room for. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Play. Quite right. I, except you don't have another room for that purpose piece. All the ones are sort of for that purpose right now. What did I guess the guesthouse? Like, what, why don't we just sort of like, but then I, who cares about friends and family, when you can put all your popcorn buckets on display? It's a good suggestion. But the thing is, I wouldn't be surrounded by all of the. We could go in. You could go in. All I did me more sort of rolling around in a bed full of money and you could just sort of roll around near your popcorn bucket. Something to think about. Something to consider. Okay. So I don't know if this is real. Yep. So we've got some, you know, I mean, that would be amazing. I don't think that's real because where's the popcorn? Well, I don't know. Maybe you, you open it instead of. It's a, it's like a navigator. It's a surprise. It's in there. You know, you're saying they're going to give you a, a valid sarcophagus. And you're going to have to like, open it in order to get to the trough of popcorn with it. Maybe you just turn it upside down. And then you shake it in your other popcorn bucket with it. Okay. If indeed it is a phallic sarcophagus, popcorn bucket, will you film us some social content of you making your popcorn buckets? Fuck. Obviously, I will do that. Even though you have not yet agreed to make the Quinn Audio Aronica 10 and diner experience with part of this podcast. Even though you refuse, I will have my popcorn buckets fucking film it. Explain to our listeners how much you are harassing me constantly with Instagram videos and text messages about me listening to pornography.
whilst on camera. - I think that we can sort of do the mutual obligation to each other to help the other person stay informed about what is out there. I will say, after sending you two more dexfuls last night in the wee hours. - This morning, I-- - You took a long look at the mirror. - No. Nope. You were never sure not saw me do that before the pod and I was like, "Jesus God, no!" So no long looks in the mirror, but instead I looked at Instagram. And I saw a new seasonal apple tart. An apple custard tart. I think an apple cream tart at Porto's. - And it looked so good. It looked so good. I can't wait to go home and order it. As you know, I often like to send you apple baked goods. But I thought Joanna has asked me to tone it down. And so I didn't send you that and said, "I waited and I told you about it now." So we all grow, we all learn. - How many? - I open the asteroid. - We're gonna get a couple of days ago and I loaded it up. - Okay. - There's something in the description about like, now I'm forgetting the exact language. Like guided experiences, have you looked into this? - No! - I tend to explore further. - Here's what I'll say. - Quinn, you should consider sponsoring us. If Quinn was a sponsor. - Let's see. - Well, how many days ago did we do a podcast and say, are there like the equivalent of screeners for this? Check the inbox every day, nothing. All right. - That was three we can't wait. - Allegedly doing part three with the side track. (upbeat music) Okay, Vision Quest episodes five and six, Firewall and Deadlock. Firewall written by Christopher Montfett. Deadlock was written by Nicole Falsetti and both directed by Vincenzone Natali. Vincenzone Natali is like, it's, so he directed this movie, Splice, which I will never forget is one of the grossest movies we've ever seen. - Haven't seen it. - But more importantly, and like recently, I was talking to, I probably robbed Mahoney about this 'cause he loves Hannibal. But he very famously directed an episode of Hannibal where a guy comes out of the interior of a horse. A guy has been sewn inside of a horse and he like emerges out of the horse. And Vincenzone Natali directed that and it is like one of the grossest things they've ever seen. So whenever I see Vincenzone Natali's name, and he's directed a ton of television, I just think about the horse and I just think about what disgusting thing is gonna be in this. - Not in a cute like Ace Ventura emerging from that. - The anus of a. - Is that cute? - Rhino, I thought it was just terrible when I was kid. - You know what I still do? Like not that vibe, different vibe? - I wouldn't call it cute though. - That's pretty funny. Funny is different from cute. - Oh, it's like exploding out. - No, no, no, no. Like a Caesarian out of the belly of a horse. It's a little bit reminiscent of a a Dutton Ranch plot line about if you're, you know, partaking in the wider Yellowstone verse about smuggling drugs via cattle, horrifying. Powerful, very upsetting. Very upsetting. - I'm trying to find my man's season 30 coming soon. - Eximage. - Oh, I have a guy coming out of a horse. - The 50 most gruesome moments for Hannibal turn safe search off. - Oh no, oh god. Oh god. - I'm just gonna show you one image. I'm just gonna show you one image. - Scared. - It's just the beginning. It's just like one figure. - It's a dig, it's a diggy. - Okay. - The finger. - Yeah, okay. - Just beginning to emerge from the belly of the horse. It's one of the worst things I've ever seen on television. - So what was the gruesome? And I would say maybe like Lisa's body contortions as she is taken over by the nanobot, something? - Sure. - Okay. - Yeah, sure. - It's not a guy coming out of a horse, but we do what we can. Quickly, I would like, now that we know what sort of Joe's plan is. Dr. Joe's plan is. - It's all a Joe. - We have so much in common. And she's like, why don't we put little nanobots inside of every human so that I can puppeteer them. Putting strings on them. They'll have a swarm hive mind, et cetera, et cetera. We've already talked about the Star Trek comps. I'm gonna start with Dr. Who. - Okay. - The Cybermen. This is exactly what every single Cybermen plot is. If you ever watch Dr. Who, the Cybermen are like, humans are weak. To paraphrase, I'll run men are weak. Humans are weak, assimilate, horse dissimilation. You will become a Cybermen and your life will be better. You won't have any cares or worries or emotions anymore. You will just, you know, ease into your robotic existence. It will be better. So that's what the Cybermen are constantly trying to do. And Dr. Who, the Borg in Star Trek is the other clear comp here. The Borg are, you know, resistance is futile. They are also trying to assimilate you into a larger hive mind. There is a Borg queen. Originally with the Borg are created in Star Trek next generation, there should be sort of insect lake. So there is a lot of insect comp. So when Joe is talking about the swarm of birds, the murmur of the birds. But her instrument of assimilation is these little bugs. Like this could not, more clearly to me be Terri Matales being like, I'm going to do a Borg storyline. He loves Trek. There's a overt Trek reference inside of these episodes of like that. So he's doing, he's doing the Borg. And guess what? Doesn't always turn out well for the Borg. I gotta say. Oh, no, nano bots don't notice. I mean, somebody to think about. Nano bots way. So you were usually the story is the independent spirit of humanity is worth preserving. Interesting. Okay. That's something to think about. So you were thinking of Star Trek. You were thinking of Dr. Who. You were not thinking of Clayface and the nano tech going inside of us because of the declaration that it'll lead us to health and save us all. No, but that also went fine. That was fine. That also went fine. Especially you just put like extra juice in yourself. Yeah. Look who does the Borg. That's what happens to Jean-Luc Picard. The Borg is, it's a great story live. Whenever it shows up, it's been used a ton of times. The Borg queen in first contact is one of my favorite characters of all time. So like antagonists all time. So anytime Dr. Joe's like, I will fix them all. Like I sort of get where she's coming from. Also a lot of queen actually using the word queen here. And obviously there's a chess board that is invoked directly, but still, you know, board queen. The moment where Ultron's like, okay, so you don't want to cure them. You want to control them, the strings. Real like that's my move. Energy from him, you know? And you think you're going to control that? By killing all of them. Do you think he resented? Is he like soulmate? Obviously he's into it. They are vibing out these two. My God. Joe and Ultron go on several dates over the course of Joe. So they're selling his heart on this romance. Let's go now to, it's kind of a medium dive that we're doing here today. (dramatic music) We start with, I'm calling the V fam, the V family. - Mm-hmm. - Recreat Ultron's moves are tracking what happened. They've been locked in the attic. They have been locked out of sort of being able to see through Vision's eyes. They need to figure out what's going on. And then there's some perturbing, I would say, AI solutions to this. Let's hack into every surveillance camera. Let's use sonar, they've seen the dark night. - I was gonna say, who do you think they are? - Damn it, first wave. - They're like, let's use sonar on the cell phone. - They're just feedback. - And just sort of like recreate this. Not a single person, unlike Lucius Fox being like, "Hey, this is Alex, I'll do it." - But then I'm out. - Yeah. And then we destroy the technology, and know whatever, use it again, or whatever. They're just like, this is a great solution to our problem. Let's hack every ring camera, don't worry about it. - Not ideal. - So remember that Super Bowl commercial? - Sure, oh, vividly. - Oh, vividly. - I was thinking about it a lot. And I was just sort of like, this makes me uncomfortable. And so we get this series of recreations. In a creative sort of grayscale vision, and Edith, and Friday, and W and U, the fam, are in color. - Yes. - W and U are sort of like interacting in an actorly way inside of the scenes, what we get. - Yeah, bartending, etc. - We get the Ultron Tommy conversation, the Ultron Joe first date, second date, third date. We get the Ultron Paladin text conversation. - Historical. - Let's start with Tommy. What did you think of this conversation? - I will say overall, just very quickly, overall for these two episodes. My feeling is that the Ultron stuff is wonderful. Once again, the spader stuff is, he's just amazing, it's fantastic. I think that the Ultron, Jakosta relationship was to me, very compelling and incredibly horny and sexually charged. - Those actors are just like-- - They're fantastic. - Yeah, they're chewing up the dialogue in the scenery, and the chemistry between them was really palpable, so that was great. - Fickling, capricious, gruff, got. And so like this opening Tommy Ultron sequence was of the Tommy scenes in the two episodes, the most compelling part.
to me because I think that Ultron saying to him like have some balls kid and all of the different dynamics that Ultron brings to any exchange where we're always wondering even in the conversations where he's saying this is what I'm after and why what his true motivation and intention is. The Tommy Lisa, Tommy Paladin, like I've got a toy that I'm telling you was a bomb. Let's talk about my eventual hero name speed by having a canary of the movie speed like none of that really hit for me in this episode or in these two episodes. But the Ultron stuff was just great. It was great. I think the Ultron stuff in general is just great. I think the Ultron Tommy stuff was the weakest of it all because and this is this comes down to writing because they had Tommy say you know when Ultron's like have some balls you're the mark kid what do people see right which is a great a great moment and then Tommy says I'm paraphrasing because I didn't take perfect notes. See the way that kids hanging on to his every word he's looking for clues like he just starts talking away that no human would actually talk and I just like a lot of lines like that. Yeah I'm just sort of like again you know a lot of like we talk when when Robin I talk about this in prestige we call like therapy talk there's just so much therapy talk of just like you know you no one psychoanalyzes themselves exactly like that in that fashion no one speaks that way especially this like teenager who is you know like just I don't think that he's had this kind of introspective life like on this level yet you know and not that he's incapable of it is just sort of like he's just not talking like a real person talks and that's okay for your AIs inside of this show but like this is the this is the yes he's got a magical soul shard of someone else inside of him but he's supposed to be a human kid and you know it's just not really I think there are two problems so one is what you're what you're saying we're just it feels clunky and any story actually that is asking us to think because the the AI the sensor always saying like do I feel you know we have a great moment in these two episodes where Ultron finally takes the sip of whiskey like how do you feel real like what is real and what is not real so the moments where the humans are behaving in a way that feels an authentic could be textually rich but that's not how it's playing it's just not how it's playing I think I think like it also is is running a fall of like the thing that we talked about um actually in both of the prior pods but I think we're both bumping on last week in particular the we're doing a little too much of the saying the thing out loud right and the audience I think what is this the doon trailer so like okay and like it's not um it's not like the thing that is being said aloud is not helpful to understand it's the opposite is we definitely already understand it so when Tommy says you know the thing that will translate in this in this scene connection it is helpful for us to think across the next two hours about that idea it comes up and is applicable to many of the subsequent conversations and not just for Ultron for vision for jacast etc we didn't need Tommy to say it and it yeah I think the Lisa moment actually also did what you're saying where it's like are the youngsters of the world talking this way but when she says to vision like if I leave Tommy you know Tommy it doesn't work out with Tommy blah blah like that and then like he'll have everything except to father that and then also when I actually I thought the moment when Tommy and vision are when when vision opens the door and they're both okay and he sees that they're okay the relief like Bettany is great so the relief that is visible on visions face even as he is still in a stretch of saying there's a distinction yeah you could just see the love and attachment is there and the inability and you're okay and I feel such a wave of like the desperation of that terror is abated for a second and I am relieved that you're okay but he can't say and he passed him on the back very cute I thought effective moment between them and then Lisa's like you guys are really bad at this uh here's here's what's true about all of this writing yeah is that to me this is so clearly the result of what we've heard so many TV writers and showrunners have been saying which is the notes that they are receiving from their their corporate overlords which is like you have to make the text so obvious so that people are looking at their phone it's someone's looking down at their phone while vision and Tommy are having that that sort of awkward exchange uh but then they hear Lisa say like the boys are bad at this you know what I mean like it you need and I hate it because it's just like really dumbed down for audiences you're just constantly reiterating the motivations and stuff like that and it's just like it's really frustrating especially when some of the writing is quite elegant and especially when some of the ideas are really compelling and especially when some of the performances I mean like I think Spader's Fantastic um I think Bettany's Fantastic you know I think Emily Hampshire is wonderful and in this stretch um yeah there were a few moments like that where the line is definitely there to make sure you're paying attention to something that you know from just a few episodes ago or possibly even scenes ago paladin has a few of them in this stretch I mean we're just recapping one division again yes once again yes and and I find that particular I have found that particularly glaring not only because of the where's the elegance that is on display and some of the other sequences as you just noted but also because like I don't know presumed uh certainly not everybody who's watching Vision Quest was a Wanda vision consumer but but many of I assume many of the people watching their show are like I want to complete this but even if they've already recapped it like multiple times yeah it also just I mean we'll see where this nets out we've kind of been talking about this from the beginning but it uh there was definitely some some Wanda vision and Wanda talk in this episode for sure but it is it's just so connected to like Tony and Stark stuff and age of Ultron which all makes sense but I don't know that it feels quite as tether to Wanda vision and Agatha as I was expecting it to be if it has it has its tethers to all sorts of things of across the MCU which like and it's always just good and interesting and maybe avoids it feeling too ubiquitous or same me with the trilogy it's supposed to complete but I I think there's it's leading to some of the these things are feeling disconnected do you feel that do you think then that like even though Terry and his team were tasked with this is the third installment in this sort of trilogy of shows perhaps he was more interested in like Ultron or Tony etc seems clear yeah I don't know if that's actually true I'd be curious to hear or I don't know if like if you would say say that but it that feels true obviously I don't want to um diminish or discount the volume of core Wanda vision text that is here obviously the entire vision and Tommy relationship connects that there are many scenes including in this episode when vision is like all right I ran the I ran the sim of this issue but I'm finally going to do it for real and I'm going to say these things about what Wanda did and what it means right there's plenty of that here and thematically as we've talked about it's connected it's creating your own false reality etc yeah yeah it's interesting I mean the ongoing question we have is like you get a lot of Billy in the in the Tommy sort of flashes inside of this episode so the question is like is Billy gonna show up in this season at all right I've kind of given up hope of the idea that like Wanda's gonna show up but is Billy gonna show up yeah um so will that make it feel more connected and then also something that you often say which is like does this show is this show doing itself a disservice by reminding us of a show that frankly I think is is better than it you know so every time we hear Wanda vision which we hear a number of times and in the second episode I'm just sort of like I kind of wish I was watching Wanda vision totally whereas age of Ultron despite being an Avengers movie and thus undeniable as a cultural force is not the best Avengers movie and it contains a really interesting character who we have now gotten an opportunity to return to and revisit in this really fast anyway I wonder though like if I tracked the actual balance of what part of the story is devoted to this this this and this I don't know if the thing I just said would actually like bear out as true in terms of the things it's connected to I wonder actually if some of the reason I feel that way is because I am so compelled by the Ultron stuff that it feels and in like Sudan and Jakarta now I'm really interested not only in that relationship but in that character not every part of that in terms of the larger um history of that group of five and what happened with with the nano techno the nano bots not all of that is I didn't need her like dad flashback yeah exactly flashback like not all of that is working but because when the two of them are together talking about is it that we want more humanity inside of us is it that we want more of this synthetic artificial existence inside of people the draw that they the distance the way that they talked about the whiskey like I can't wait to talk about that more I just it's to me was like really gripping do you think it would have worked better for me if they had been talking about tequila instead of whiskey is a drink that I abhor it's possible yeah it's definitely possible let me say this on the age of Ultron front as well that the moment of true friendship that I exhibited to you this year was drinking whiskey when we went to that Harrison Port whiskey event even though I hate whiskey I mean you brought me a red apple from I don't remember doing that New York and you consumed you consumed whiskey yeah and took photos of me with Harrison Ford you're you're the best I think you're amazing what am I done for you literally nothing That's what I'm talking about.
- Okay, so what were we saying about Ultron's side? - Just to go back to the Tommy Ultron scene, I do wanna credit in that scene. The Covia death count exchange, which if Ultron had not said in response to Tommy saying 177, if Ultron had not been like, I think it was probably more, I might have stopped watching the show. I'm not kidding. So I just wanna thank Ultron for coming in with the factor. I assumed Tommy got that figure from the snap, and I would like to know who fact checked the snap. 177, what the fuck are we talking about? There's no way. And what about all the legions of dead after Ultron pulled Covia out of the game? What, 177? The Avengers came in and said, - I think Bimo, I think Bimo alone lost 177 members of his family. - Yeah, exactly. Where are the Ripples, the Zemo Ripples, et cetera? That was, Tommy really needs to step it up. If he's gonna throw out some facts and figures like that. - Did it bomb you out to be a Matterport and not? Spent any time with Zemo on a club? - Yes, however. I assume that we had the same experience, which is when we're on the cargo plane. - Yeah. - And we see Magiropore on the box. - The sheer wave of terror. - Of Sharon Carter terror. - We were heading, that we were heading to a power broker episode. I was fucking afraid. And I'm really glad that that didn't happen. I'm glad that didn't happen. - Okay, we still don't know who the client is. - I mean, yeah, we haven't left Magiropore yet, you're right. - Goddamn it, you're right. In the Ultron Tommy scene. - Yeah. Red Apple Talk, is this what did you want to mention? Red Apple Talk? - 'Cause it's important. - Nope. - Ultron Defense. - Ultron Defense vision a bit to Tommy, which I kind of like. He also has these lines. He's trying like a cheap tie. - Great stuff. - Very good. And you're a real son of a witch, which would not have worked where it's not for James Bader still afraid. - He sold it. - He really did. - He sold it. - He was a real son of a witch. - He sold it. - All right. - Oh man. - Ultron Paladin share a series of messages, which either decodes thanks to the TV guides. Family ties mention Mallor. - That's right. - You have to feel about it. - You know, anytime the family ties is mentioned, I get to think about the fact that my parents thought it was gonna be a boy had planned to name me Zach, and then that's not what happened, and they were at the hospital and family ties was on, so they were like Mallor. - It's a great name. - And now here we are. - Zach Rubin. - Who is Zach? - Who is Zach Rubin? Do you know what I mean? What is he doing? This is like the all history we were exploring with C.R. yesterday. He had gone to a different school. - That's right. That's right. Oh man, boy. - That's a fun one to make about. - Who is Florida C.R. Who is Zach Rubin? - Who is Zach Rubin? - Yeah. - What do you think? - Is he the, you know, the mother of dragons? - Maybe. - Maybe. - And that Zach Rubin got to the doctor in the time that he's known you. (laughing) I thought that this, okay. This sequence, the emails, very much in miniature to be my experience with the show so far, where there were things about it that I just thought were wonderful. And I loved. - Was it Ultron saying LMAO? - Yeah. - And also, Shadow Riding. - Here's some joy about you. - And also, Shadow on the Bounty Hunter Message Boards. - Yeah. Let me say that again. - Let me say that again. - Shadow on the Bounty Hunter Message Boards. - Yes. - Here's what I liked about it. - And here's where I've landed with Paladin, with only two more episodes to go. - Yeah. - Paladin is comic relief. - You're in. - Great. - Yeah. - And you mentioned this before, in this sort of like the dog moment outside of the van, et cetera, et cetera. Like, how many murder vans do you have? You know, one in every port? Like, I think Paladin is comic relief. - Yeah. - His whole like, if you answer this riddle, - Yeah. - Just kidding. - Just kidding in the Namaste. - That was funny. - Oh, that's funny. - And some of this stuff was vision on the ground when he's like bleeding out. He's like, you're using your out loud voice. - That was also funny. And also, I will come back to it the Star Trek reference. Like, Paladin as a reluctant ally, comic relief, I think we're in a potentially good space going forward. - I agree. - Possibly. But Paladin as the heavy has not once worked for me at all. - No, and in fact, when vision is sitting across. - And Paladin has said that also doesn't really work for me. - Again, very, very emblematic of the show's struggle to not just make the parallel between the characters that you were reluctantly coming into some sort of kinship. - So overt. - Syracuse mentioned, though, in the backstory. So maybe worth it for that reason alone is to say, me, I just said it, worth it for that reason alone. Yes, it was the LMAO, everything you said about Ultron, kicked back on the couch, dictating his, - Well, the puppet. - Missives. What I love thinking about in terms of what's happening is like, he's doing that while having that conversation with Tommy at the bar because that's when he's like, I've called you your ride, right? So when he's like, here's where Tommy is. You know, he's like, so he's communicating with Paladin while he's with Tommy at the pub having that sort of like, he's trying like a cheap tie conversation. - Yeah, disgusting. Here's what I didn't like about it. And I confess, as I say this, that this does not matter to everyone and that's fine. - Yeah, I am struggling a little bit with the shows. I think not very tidy deployment of what the tech can do when and how. It's just really inconsistent kind of seeing to see when they suddenly can come up with a solution because they're quantum computer AIs and when they're like, we're blocked off because of like this one thing on a guy's belt. So like TV guide that suddenly like is waived and put into a VCR cute and everything. - Oh, I love that. I think that's great. I actually think that's great and it's fine that it bothers you but I think it's great because I think it goes in concert with the way that magic worked in Agatha and WandaVision. I understand that tech and magic are not the same thing but I think that's the idea of like, yes, it's convenient for story like when someone can do something and when they can't. But I also just think that like, we don't fully understand our limitations and our abilities. And like when Ed says and it's just sort of saying that thesis of the show allowed, like it's not the strongest who survived. The ones most capable of change. Like the way in which the tech can adapt and grow and all that sort of stuff like that scares you when I think about literally, but like is seemingly, you know, sort of what we're here for. So I think it's quite like. I think it's less when they find the solution though there is always a little bit of the Deus Ex Mach and a risk. It's more actually that because they are so often able to do that. I'm consistently frustrated with the characters when they're like, yeah, no way to figure this out. It's like why, but you figured it out every other time. I kind of like that when like Friday is like, Friday is a character I'm really struggling with but when Friday is like, you know, what are we gonna do? And Edith is like, okay, problem. We can't do this. Solution, you know, this sort of like, can do Edith attitude of like, which she's done before, which is just sort of like, here's the problem. How do we solve that, you know? And Friday being someone who needs to be like, literally pushed out the door and does sort of like, jump ship into the rainbow internet. - It's all drawn back in the internet. - Yeah, back in the internet. - And I got to kick out. - I was thinking of you a lot. - He's in the internet. - All right, I'll put a joke. Go on a series of first dates. They're in the pub. - Wonderful. - They're in the Louvre. - They're in a record store. - That's right. - This is like basically 500 days of summer. Montage essentially. They debate the merits of whiskey, humanity, art, emotions. The vision fans not having a great time watching this, right? Like watching Hannibal Lecter Swipe, right? - Incredible. - And please serve this as malware. (laughing) Very, very funny. All of this was great. Which of these lines did you think was the horniest? Gonna give you a few. - I didn't actually neatly package these all in one section of my doc, but I'm gonna quickly try to find a few and offer them. - Are you gonna submit your own tape for Quinn? Maybe. - Do you think I should? - Maybe. (laughing) - That's basically what this podcast is. (laughing) - Remember? - Acolyte. - Oh no. - Yeah, I knew you were gonna do that. - But I was thinking about Acolyte and the power I think of the whole thing in your hand. - Yeah. - It was on my mind with this. - Okay. - You strike me as one who might enjoy it. - If a guy can't score in Paris, then romance is truly dead. More, you know, cute, ha-ha, than super horny. Yeah. This is obviously the winner, but I'm gonna give you some other contenders anyway. One can only hope it would be both of us at the same time. That's what he did. I was like, make it stop. - Yeah. - Incredible stuff. Oh, well, John, love to watch him flirt. Great stuff. Let's see. How about can strip your code down? I want to know you. I wanna be known. But it will be painful. Then hurt me. They still. To know me is to know what I feel. - Fickle and capricious. - Yeah. - A digital great god. And you are the mother, the beautiful queen of her board of my fidelity. - Now you're the other contender. - I'm just saying, thanks. - I'm just saying pain with you. And you took it like no human ever has. - That's it. - You know what I think? (laughing) - That's right. - And I would have to ask Nicole Falsetti who wrote this episode. I think that's an Emma reference. In Emma, when he's like, you know, Mr. Knightley, who kind of sucks, who I love and also kind of sucks, is like, you know, Emma, I tell you.
and you bore it like no one else ever, ever could. And he's like, and so that means we're, you know. - Sure. - I can berate you and you can put up with it. So we're destined to be together. Remember when I held you when you were a baby? These are things that happen in Emma. These are just things that happen in Emma. So, you know. - As you know, one of my rules is if you ever change to diaper, you can't then fuck. This is also the Malcolm Lyra rule and the second polon trilogy. I'm sorry, it is. It's simply a no. - It's a no. - No. - It's a no. All Tron plots is escape. The scene was ever, all Trons was too short. For me, I could have watched that all episode, personally. - Incredible. - Did you feel like a reference to Paul Bettany saying the actor that he most wanted to work with was himself? - Absolutely. Let's give Spader a little, a little taste to that. Phenomenal stuff. - Really good. - The slightly different vibes, the different outfits, of course. You know, I'm here for this, but it doesn't seem necessary. - Yes, they're doing great. Me, can you get rid of me? - Fantastic. - Fantastic. And also he's reading Eye Ultron. - The biography very funny. - Really good. - Several references to Ultron as the Devil, which we've talked about for a couple weeks now. Devil on his shoulders. Speaking of the Devil, him rising up from the bowels of the house on the elevator while the literal fire walls. - Yeah. - The stained glass window wall with a very cool flickering flames design that goes down when the fire wall comes down and goes down. And then Ultron's shadow sort of overwhelming them. I thought it was a really cool visual as he comes up in the elevator. We get a kind of creaky incarcerated line, but it brings us to this lake. We dug cold together, speaking through the prison phone's moment. - Yeah, I can't hear you. - Yeah, it's pretty good. - Really good, really good. - I think honestly, the VHS, like the VHS with the garbled tape, the TV guides, the prison phone. Like any of, you know, all of you, this outfit changes. Like all of that stuff works for me. Like, it is coming in on the little parachute onto the monitor of Validant's feet. - It is, it's very funny. - You didn't know having a cutesy outfit for when she murders a bunch of people was a question mark I had. The little smiley face as she's just sort of eliminating. - Fashion never sleeps. - Yeah. I mean, I thought it looked great. Like she's sitting in the in the chair in her like pilot outfit. It's very cute. But I was like eating at this rate of just like deeply murdering people right now. - Well, you did have a lot to do in these episodes. So efficiency is necessary in keeping the mood high. Necessary. You know, she manages to, it's not really a recruitment. It's a get out of here. You're in my way with Paladin's handler in like 45 seconds. So you just have to mention a lava floor obstacle course of the gym and your foe is, I'm really, but I really want the handler comes back. Okay, first of all, the reveal to the handler was AI was something sort of we were tracking for the beginning, not a surprise. The scene however was delightful, because these two actresses together just like had like a really fun chemistry. When she comes in and she's like, I'm an Edith. Dan Morgan is so funny. And just the way she pauses and goes, unsubscribe. It was just like really funny to me. And talking about, you know, the sort of like data farm that she's on and like the blinds and the window not working, just like how janking her environment is, like all of that I thought was really good. All I ever wanted to do was help college students right there, term papers. Graham customized someone spring. Well, she can't do it. Yeah, that's right. I'm sure she said help maybe even help someone complete the return of a garment that did not expect. It's really, really funny. It's really good. Um, okay, in the, um, in the sort of prison phone exchange. Yeah. Vision says conclusively. I will never bring the firewall down. I will never do that. I will never let you escape. Only two mere moments, like literally moments later. Yeah, bring it down. And this has happened multiple times as vision where he just sort of like rolls over again and again. So I don't know if we're setting up for a moment where he like finally doesn't. Hmm. Or if this is bothering the writers as much as it's bothering me, but for him to just take this stance of like, I will never let you. And then like I understand Tommy's in peril. So like, he feels like he has to do it. But it's just like such a quick roll over. I was just, yeah, didn't feel like tremendously tight writing to me. Yeah, I mean, I guess the, the thing that they're maybe hoping we accept is vision says the thing makes the declaration that he knows is logical and rational, but is consistently pulled out of it by the, the need to do the thing that's right. Tommy, the human pool. Um, when he, a couple of things that did work better than the, the, and especially because he's making his big speech here about, you know, I'm going tired of your whole, like, slip of coin. Yeah. You are the coin. Yeah. Dude, you are the coin. Um, don't be so we can update this, right? Don't be the ship. No. Be the king. Don't be the king. Be the captain. Don't be the captain. Be the coin. Be the coin. Got it. Got it. We've got to stay current. I got it. Um, the open elevator shaft to follow Ultron down as he has escaped into the internet. As he does, as he has, as he will. He loves to jump into the, into the internet. I did like music. I've been all over the world wide. It is being like, remember your heroic landing. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. So that was great when vision jumped down. That was wonderful. Um, and then of course that little conversation at the door where, you know, uh, uh, Ultron says, okay, you've chosen your son. We get a little bit of that. He's not my son. But the hat, you know, we are, we are reminded of the hat. Just to plant the seed. If we come back to it in theory corner, you know, we had the, the, the, the whole thing earlier in the season, Ultron looking at himself in the mirror with the hat, talking about the hat, hats. So, you know, the beginning of an adventure, which vision reminds us of that exchange here. Um, gives Ultron the hat. When the client's voice kicks in and Magiropore and vision is watching on the monitor, it looks like he's wearing a hat. There's a silhouette of a person with the hat on. So it's like, oh, okay, that's. Feels like it all. Follow question. Follow question. Yeah. When we flash from the actors, when they're like smoothing. Yeah, delightful. Jacosta and Ultron, we slash. We flash from the actors to why stop a kissing. They're like sort of silent figures. Yeah. I think it would have landed as well if he was wearing a hat. If that silent was wearing a hat. Maybe better. It's a little pork fire. Maybe better because I've never been a synth. Yeah. To the list. Yeah. Yeah. Well, scary. Tom. Obviously. But the fun of peeling off the clothing. Not really available. I guess they could go through the theater of I'm, you know, last time he said so you've been naked the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Put on put on put on the outfit. But because Ultron and Jacosta, you know, when they're in their synth form arms, it's all metal. Maybe the hat would be a fun bit of. Okay, I can at least there's something there. Yeah. Something there to remove. Maybe he's a fuck with that on. I don't know what's Ultron into. How clanky is that. Is that. Congress. Well, I mean, you know, we've had some of the. Oh, like what's Tommy and Vision when they're home. I mean, he's like like basically, you know, when he says he escapes the net, like, yeah, he goes, he's. In her as it were, is he not. As he was inside of vision, he is inside of her. This is why there are a lot of reasons that you're great at what you do. And why people compliment your ability to blend the blue with the high brow and to incorporate genuine scholarship into the examination of. A text intended for the masses. Right. And if anyone was like, what do you mean? Just pull up that moment right there. You're asking the hard questions and the important questions. How clanky would it be? Pretty clanky. I mean, Tommy like kind of gently does this to visions shoulder in this episode. And it's like. And it's just like two clanky bits against each other. Bump them clanky bits. Indeed. Yeah. Do you think that they, you know, because when, and I thought he very. This was a moment where when so the packing boxes, the files, because jacosta, we haven't said this is like, I don't remember. There's a lot of key stuff that jacosta doesn't remember, which obviously feels important. And all kinds of things like. Thank you. But the in the like I'm going through all of these memories because I don't there are these aspects of my past. You know, we got a lot of the like the biometric, the okay, the nano bots are in this casing that we see. That's what I'm trying to access. We got some areas. We have more questions in a nest. Very weird. I don't want any nano bots. And even if they're my life's work to be buried, mere feet away from me. Let me just put that on the record now. But the virus, the like swiping of the paper cut from the box of files. And then I was like, all truncheon know that now he has a virus and he doesn't. Maybe he's just distracted by his his vibranium bone or that's fine. I'm sure it happens. But here's my question. If we can simulate the drop of blood from the faux paper cut. Yeah. What else are we simulating? Yeah. You can't just leave it to imagination. This is vision quest. You said to say the thing. Some of my people get their phone right now. So right. So you have to say what liquid that you're thinking of. So well, all sorts of liquids. Yeah. Ultimately. What kind of viscosity are we talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some vibranium viscosity. You know.
and you have viscosity down there for Ultron. It's, I'm just wondering. - Do you think Carlos is mad that he's missing this recording? - I think he's never been able to be gone for a day. - Then he is right now. Maybe he'll never listen to this episode. He'll never know when he missed. - Okay, we're off on a plane to Madrepoor, to find Tommy and hopefully not Sharon Carter. - Gosh. - Madrepoor, it's purple. Remember, I actually kind of liked the production design here. - Yeah, sure. - Even though it's clearly just like one square block, I think they did a really good job with it. - We already mentioned this sort of Keanu's speed moment. Lisa and Crypto Dale? Crypto Dale was, I thought. - I had a fun time with this. - I thought was, was like, I don't know how quickly you can move someone to main cast, but I think if it's possible in the next two episodes, - So as they should Crypto Dale. (laughing) - Crypto Dale just really kind of cheerfully describing being catfished by a bot was so funny. - What if Crypto Dale's the client, he was wearing a hat. - Oh shit, it could be, or what if Crypto Dale got catfished by the client so that he could run in shame to Madrepoor, where he could get picked pocketed by Lisa. So yeah, how far had this client thinking? - That was a tough avenue to watch he wander down. (laughing) - Maybe Crypto Dale. - Maybe Crypto Dale. - You're usually better at theory quarter. Sometimes a Crypto Dale is just a Crypto Dale. - Oh man. - I agree that some of the dialogue wasn't great, but I actually kind of enjoy the choreography of the walk and talk that Vision and Lisa do. - There's a lot of sitting and expositioning inside of these episodes to at least have Lisa picking pockets as they go was quite fun. - Yeah, the little like the, I'm looking at the bag, so I can grab the change purse thing. And then of course the payoff later of all of the different things that Lisa has swiped. That was fun. Almost as effective, the Lisa Vision journey through Madrepoor has Raza's journey through the alleys and dark corners of Madrepoor. Here's the thing and then I don't think we needed. The return of Raza from literally the first installment of the MCU. - Quite positive. Let me just wrap this up and then we can go straight to Raza. I have no problem getting straight there. I just want to recognize Paul Betty's delivery of having a profoundly difficult time navigating teenagers and Edith mentioning that she had to work for Peter Fuckett Parker. I mean, a junior in high school, you know, just what all she wants to do is murder. She's like, I would prefer to just murder, you know what I mean? - But that's the note. That's the follow up is, Edith, what are you complaining about? That's 17, that junior in high school is all too happy to inadvertently order a drone strike which seems to be your favorite thing. Favorite thing, couldn't we to activate to gain control of Paladin's van to activate the EMP pulse? - We're near and a handful of either deployments or mentions of EMP pulses. We obviously had the beginning of the season, we had it here, we had earlier in this episode why you can't fire any of people's bullet. A lot of EMP pulse action. - And we get one inside itself. - We do, yeah. - So Edith accesses the van, fires it off. Jammer on Raza's belt undone and then Edith is in her favorite place after that. - Murder, drone control. - Yeah, yeah. Love's to murder. - Love's it. - Yeah, absolutely loves it. - She's so cute, she's cute little sister. She's like, I need defragging, she's crying over Friday. She's such a cutie, and she also just loves to murder. And that's why she's great. Okay, Raza. - Why? - If you don't remember, from Iron Man, this is the leader-ish of the 10 rings. This is sort of retconned-ish by Shang-Chi or whatever, but you may remember from Iron Man or you may not. - I'm clear, but yeah, I hear you, and on the other hand, this is like something the MCU thinks is really important that they do, which is sort of connect everything, like make the world feel small and interconnected at the same time. And like, it's why a Darcy shows up in WandaVision, you know what I mean? - But I love that. - Yeah. I know I understand. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, and this is not as successful as it was. - And Ed, I think like, because Darcy ended up being a main character in WandaVision. This, I mean, who knows? He got knocked out by a paladin punch. Like, is this it? Maybe he's gonna be in the next episode still. - Wow, great. - But is he a Raza? - Is he a character in this show, or was he here? And then we got the like, incredibly clunky paladin, refreshes the audience in case they've forgotten. - Oh. - Stony stocks, former partner, oh, but Daya. - And they really tried all season 'cause they mentioned 10 rings, like five different times of season, leading up to this and so like that. But yeah, it's just not if it really works very well. - There's so many connections already to other parts of the MC. - Over Star Trek reference here, damage report, says Vision. - Yeah. - Even I had that one. - And in his Mr. Scott impression, he says, Paladin says, I'm losing Bauer Captain. There's a breach in my hole. So, you know. - As you know, I've been delighted by Paladin for many episodes. - Paladin Paladin is good, Paladin Paladin is good. - All the power goes out in Matterport and the client makes his presence known and how powerful is the client? You can knock out all, he can EMP pulse all of Matterport. - So certainly, that's yet another bit of evidence that would seem in addition to the silhouette wearing a hat to support the idea that it's crypto-dil. - That is crypto-dil. - So sorry, crypto-dil. - I'm sprinkly and dare you. - So sorry. - Crypto-dil. - That's crypto-dil's brother, crypto-dil. They're getting his spin off. It's like the property brothers, but as a crypto-brother, stay tuned. - I would watch. - Yeah, I know you would. - I'm like, do we need all that? I would watch crypto-dil's MCU show. - Yeah. - I would. The way that the client talked about money, the client's voice rings out. You know, this has gone on long enough. You're wasting my time, you're wasting my money. That just felt not that since as they think about what it means to be human, can't become obsessed with money as well. But in theory, these quantum AI can tap into any bank, any source. - That was one of these first times. - That's when you're like, it's crypto-dil. - It's crypto-dil. That feels like a more human, crypto-dil-esque concern. But everything else still is pinging. - Crypto-dil is like I'm not made of money. I've been catfished here to matter for. - Yeah, of course, I'm of it. Both because of my crypto-investments, initially, and the catfish bond. Tough, but to mention what Lisa just lifted for a second. - Exactly. - Yeah, I think that felt possibly like a human indicator, but broadly, just into your point of like, how powerful is the client? Being able to spark a blackout and trigger a PA alert across all of Magiropore. Many of the little glimpses of the client that we've gotten are given. - Do you feel like that's something-- - They're given theft. - Do you feel like that's something Sharon Carter could do? - How do you think Sharon Carter we're looking at? - Probably great. - Yeah, probably great. - And for one, including possibly Sharon Carter, maybe Zemo, who knows, is in Magiropore. Joe's also there. Ultron, who is at all times inside of Joe, is also there. Friday, who is also inside of Joe, is also there. Everyone is partying in Magiropore. Lisa gets infected. - Tough. - Though sweet when Ultron was like-- - Not Tommy. - No, he tried Tommy. Now he tried to, I thought-- - Write it all. - In an interesting actually character moment because Ultron has talked a lot in the season so far about truth, right? The thing that, why does he like their art? Jocasta wants to know why it's like the paintings, because of the truth, right? - Yeah. - The only thing that's true, the pain that they show you. So, I'm interested in the moments where it feels like he's lying, not in an effort to manipulate other people because that's just how he execs his, pursues and execs his agendas, but because he's lying to himself potentially. So the quick cover of like, because if you do it, if you put the nanobot into Tommy, even I won't be able to stop whatever vision does to you, that felt to me like, on the one hand, true, because vision would pursue Jocasta at a cost, but on the other hand, like Ultron was like, had an actual authentic moment of-- - Of course, protective instant. - That comes through, I think, actually more than anything else in James Bader's choice of physicality. - Yes. - He sort of like clutches at her and he's like, "Not the boy." - It's reflexive. - Yeah, it's protective. - Pop, pop, sort of moly for all. - No, we don't like that. I still think people it's great. - So yeah, Lisa, not doing great, gets lovingly shocked by Tommy. - That seems fine. - She's barely alive is what they said. - You know, the sedatives have, was she stable? - I do think the design of like sort of the veiny face, red eyes, sort of, and the phrase little thief, the little thief, I thought all of that was pretty good. - I'm curious to see what happens to Lisa going for, we only have two more episodes. - We only have a couple more, but it doesn't seem great. - It doesn't seem really good at all. - Gotta get that nanobot out. - And then if you get that nanobot out, the creepy little vein fissures in your face go with you or you forever fissured. - Maybe before you, I mean, you at Porra fissure. - You at Porra crevice, you at Porra fissure. Maybe before you remove the nanobot, you can have crinkly fate. Like if someone has like, you know-- - Like, they've lived a life. - Yeah, same, I mean. - Well worn, care worn. - I'm glad to hear it. - Glad to hear it. - Yeah, I'm glad to hear it as your co-host because every day a new wrinkle over here on the side of the table. - Yeah. - No. - I see none of this thing going on. - The, the nanobot perhaps you could be like, can you just heal me first before we pull you out? Because that is a theory part of their capability. I don't know how a response is there. That was also, that was established in these two episodes as well that,
This because all John's like thanks for showing me. I'm interested Thought these were all in the biometrically sealed She's like I got one I had to mine. I have one and I put it in Lisa Hey, there's a poll question. Are you prone at all, but because Then you well, I can't wait to take this question. You won't have to go to the doctor. The doctor will be in you at all times The doctor will be like Hey, Mallory, you should get some glasses. I've ordered you your prescription. But then Mallory, maybe don't eat I won't call you out for this. Don't eat this thing that's gonna give you a stomach ache, you know some don't eat I so the nanobot would okay. I can't see. I definitely need glasses Everything's blurry headaches all the time probably for my strain the nanobots like I've got you That's like it's not a tumor 2020 vision. Yeah, but then yeah, my eyeball just falls out of my head Because I've seen clay face or it glows bright red and I'm a part of jacastas Sparrow swarm murmur. No, thank you. No, I love a birdies. I've told you You look great in red though. I think you know that it's not great. I think you look great Something you think about you can't consider it. We're not we're not Overloading on nanobots because we have seen clay face. It's just the one Barrowed inside but fluttering its wings singing its song inside of your central nervous system. Don't what's to worry? The one's the one's a gateway. That's all very like in an interesting way obviously maybe not the freshest way But it's all very like black mirror right this idea of like what are you putting in and you think it's gonna help you in the word Just go um, it's a no for me. I'm just gonna pass on all of that. Wow. Yeah. Are you are you nanobotting? You're joining the the murmur you're joining the swarm. Well Jocasa's original idea was not that everyone is a hive mind. I think jocasa when she doctor Joe when she was alive Yeah, before she was betrayed by her teammates who sold her tech to a weapons manufacturer and I did like that Okay, as much as we're like this connection to Iron Man, I'm not sure But her being like hey Tony Stark is a fucking weapons manufacturer or something that Iron Man like Of course interacted with but I think sometimes the MCU conveniently forgot about sometimes it remembered and sometimes it forgot about You know what I mean? But like for Joe to be like this is Ops of fucking looting not do I want my tech going to a weapons manufacturer. Thank you so much But so dr. Joe and her more idyllic phase before she's like Her human body Ailed and failed her and her teammates betrayed her if she's just sort of like but again Please go see the film artificial because this is basically like yeah the premise of all AI is like there's someone there who has an Idealistic version of what AI will be it will heal all put a stopper on death like it will heal all of our ails It will be wonderful. It'll stop war It'll do all this things and then it goes into the hands of a weapons manufacturer time and time again, you know, and so it's like yeah I don't know I just If if we can live in a society, but we don't know of course not if we live in a society where AI Was just here to produce a utopia, but it's not but let's say it was yeah Yes, I would have a little banana button your little natal button my head try. I think I've just I've just probably read and seen too many of the sci-fi stories that you just recounted um to believe that they can be a great And you're right, but on the jacosta front in terms of what vision quest is is exploring with the characters I just really want you to be able to see that's mostly my I could probably just go get glasses Oh no, I know bots required five years. I've known you And I've needed them longer than that. That's the craziest part. I mean, I've definitely really needed them in that time The the way that you cost a set of Lisa. This is like in the final closing scene of the episode um After the whiskey moment that that I loved so much when when Ultron kind of lustily takes that sip and can he can actually we're not in the ones and zeros and I thought that I honestly thought it was like genuinely very sexy, but also like very compelling to watch this You know, the multiple moments across the How much clenkin very clenky the You're connected to that by your memory, but for me it's once in series and that she says it's going to be different this time because she has shown him this thing They have shared this thing they have Connected not sure if you heard from Tommy that that was going to be important Um, and then he takes little of the stiff and a sip and we can see and then the the two-handed like Goal And then the way that they're sitting now she is I could have thrown this out in the horniest This wasn't a line of dialogue, but she is kneeling in front of him Did she she's on her knees just for a second there. Oh, okay, just for a second because then she's like sitting on like a box and they end up having like their third far Dozzle and she says on about Lisa Uh That young girl before is necessary of course for the greater good and the question and her voice. Oh, yeah And the regret in real time for the thing that she's doing right that's important obviously to show us It gives us some hope we've talked a lot about can we allow ourselves to believe that Redemption or a different course is possible for Ultron then we have this not for you Paula traities But maybe for you Ultron who's murdered more people Paula traities um definitely more than 177 But I think I My big question coming out of this because I I agree like Her jacosa this question of like was this the right thing to do necessary for the greater good for Ultron um Does he buy in is he just indulging her to get her to monologue about what her plan is right I think he's definitely enamored of her, but I think two things can be true He can be enamored of her and also like no question. Does he support this plan or does he not right is he going to help her Open that nest of nanobots or is he not like I don't I generally don't know because ultron is fully capable of just sort of like Making someone believe that he is on their side. No question. It is his of all of his Superpowers that is maybe his his most Terrifying right because you don't know you're not able to discern in real time whether you are the victim of that Even if you were aware that it is something that he is capable of doing even when In episode five vision and the mind palace family were Watching had rendered their forms and we're watching the conversations the Tommy exchange the ultron jacastic exchange There were moments in that conversation where it felt like Completely plausible that ultron not only knew it was likely that despite being imprisoned in the attic of the mind Vision would find a way to see that but that he was maybe even directly talking to him right So that's that's all there too. And I think like you said then the inverse of that with the jacasta See in how much of this pull and this yearning and this longing this real magnetic draw I see in you something that I know as in myself Well, that when the day will the better angel Find a way to to pull him into a different type of decision But also what does he even want and who is it who is it totally for? That's all like really delicious to watch with them I think that jacasta is a newer figure for us And so we have less that we can call upon as we try to parse what we're seeing from her, but I think that mostly this there's some stuff. I don't remember 100% their holes in my memory. How did I get this bang and bod? Who's pulling my string? Right. Yeah, what's their agenda? Yeah, that's an interesting thing to think about. Yeah, and even I was thinking back to the way when Edith and Friday and everybody in the prior set of episodes were like who is this right and they were very slowly piecing together the murder set as we talked about. Yeah last pod the description of jacasta as the co lead of the project Was we talked about that briefly last week, but like so all these other other group of five who we see again We see them in front of the in this episode. They're in front of the white space. Yeah So all five of them including jacasta now reborn in the synthetic forum who said last two episodes I am her in this episode is like I'm not I'm not her right and is confronting that just as our other since our another parallel All of those characters are dead. So is there another I have been reborn to lead it or is there someone? Yeah, is there some other figure who was connected to that work originally who will come into the the story in some way because Have they been deleted from like everything like I don't understand because like if our AI people are like pouring over news Clippings and there's a co lead of like deleted from jacasta's mind, but deleted from like all of historical record I don't know and like one so the thing that jacasta says in this closing stretch after expressing that little kernel of like It was this thing I did with Lisa like totally cool Watching her mind being rewritten like that almost as if it mirror my own memories like a record that skipped past the chorus past something vital There is an anger. I cannot place a love that I don't understand We think about like Going from the Louvre to the record store and the way that jacasta talked about the human the look the the I fall in love I fall in out of love. What is the thing that we bring to the art that we create and why The kind of judgment and distance initially when she was like almost ridiculing Ultron for his new fan appreciation of that That's not the tone that we're getting here, right? There is a Something is there that informed That informed the life I live that I don't have access to
but so what will that be? - And that could be interesting. I think with two episodes to go, that's interesting. I think sometimes that could be, like, someone's had part of their memory erased so they don't have access to their memories and so that we can't have access to memories, can be like shaky storytelling. I think this close to the end game though, because when can that 11th hour reveal possibly come? I don't know. - I'm intrigued. - Okay, we did it. I mean, it's Ultron and Tricoste, I'm really curious. - You're in, you ship it. - I do. - And I could have told you that, honestly. - I just love those scenes. And the other thing you're really- - You're really thinking about robots fucking. - I just, I think as a real genuine battle start galactica obsessive robots having sex has just always been a pretty big part of my life. The other, just very last thing I did really, we talked about this in the beginning of the season when Vision was in his real, like, Terminator mode. I really once again, even though he is on. - Hopefully we assume we think we feel confident in a journey of, I've pushed away these human things. I've said there is this gap, but really, I have this in me too, and we'll embrace it. I will allow myself to- - He will, I'll take it to whiskey. - Exactly. When he was across from Paladin in full villain mode for a moment there and doing it for the right reason, right? To protect Tommy. But he's like, actually, I know everything about your daughter. I just thought that was fucking great and really fun to watch. - Vision, yeah, vision with the blue eyes. - With the blue eyes. - The vision playing the tough. - Vision being very so far, it's so great. - Vision, what could happen with the traffic light? Vision, what could happen with her medicine? Vision, what could happen? - Yeah, I thought that was what I was really good. - Use what she puts in her coffee. - That was just, I thought that was amazing. - And just another cautionary tale of what AI could do to us, if the size to murder us all. Okay, terrifying. Climate control in your house? - Yikes. - Dune? - Can't wait. - Back trailer rules. - Simply can't wait. - Vision 5 and 6? - Makes back. - Yeah, but some plenty to like. - But some notes. - Interested and optimistic about sort of where we all are, especially where Pellet and his netted out right now. - I think we are undeniably trending up. - Yeah. - Like we both liked episode four a lot and five and six while we still had some things inside of them that were-- - Six was a thing on. - Six is an up for me. - Yeah, and yes. I mean, in the Ultron jacosta stuff in five, I thought was also really strong. So I feel confident and hopeful that the concluding two episodes of the season will be strong. I've kind of fascinated to see where the show goes in terms of whether it feels like it is completely putting a bow on multiple. Obviously like Tommy and Billy are gonna be. Like speed and wicking will be a part of the episode before. - Tana Patalus is giving one of those classic like Vision Quest season two, never say never. So yeah. I don't know. - All right. Thank you. - Yes. - To our team in the attic, our family in the attic. Mike Morgan is working on the show today. - Hope you really enjoyed all of that clanking talk. Jacob Cornett is here. He's used to it by now. Our general go pals here. - Scott Lee. - Scott Lee is here. Tell me a dinner on social. Please do check out our social feeds for an announcement today on Wednesday. And we'll be back with that very project. - That's right. - Yeah. - Quite soon. - Wow. That's right. That's next fun. Okay, bye.
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