Duncan Joseph (duncanyounot) Spills TikTok Tea

[music] Hello and welcome to another episode of Base News Network. My name is Sophie, aka Joan of Arca, and I'm here with Cairo, also known as Punk Revolution now. And today we have a wonderful guest, Duncan Joseph of Duncan You Not, on TikTok and Instagram and probably other places to say hello, Duncan. Hello everyone. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you so much for being here. It's Julie in honor. I've been watching your videos since you started in 2019. I believe at least on on musically TikTok. I don't know what it was back then. Yeah, it was a TikTok. That's so crazy that you like when I first heard that you had known about me since then. I was so shocked because like yeah, I don't know. It was so long ago, but also feels like a completely different era of everything. So I don't know. It's so cool. Anything, anything pre-pandemic just feels fake to me. Like there needs to be, you know, like there's BCAD. I feel like there needs to be an AC after COVID. No, after 20, I mean COVID's not over, but you know what I mean? There was just such a shift in everything that I feel like anything before that feels like the dark ages, I don't know. Yeah, pre-lockdown, post-lockdown, you know? Yeah. Definitely a shift. For sure. So you've been, you're basically like a TikTok native. You know, you've been around the block with TikTok and not many people can say that. I was using it when it was musically. Oh, you were like OG, OG, yeah. I mean, I was posting like dub smash videos, but yes. You missed dub smash. Were you a dub smasher? I was a dub smasher. Like I thought that was gonna be my career, you know? Yeah. Was it mine too? You know, I was actually not allowed to be on Vine. My parents monitored my devices and they thought Vine was extremely inappropriate. Probably was. You know, I feel like TikTok is worse. What is dub smash? Oh, it's like this, it's this app where you could, I don't know if it still exists, but you could like lip sync to songs. So you would, it was kind of like a proto musically TikTok type thing. Duncan, do you have a better description because I honestly didn't use it that much? Yeah, I don't even know, just imagine like if like you know those apps where you can like add templates to photos and videos, imagine like a lip syncing cap cut template app. Like it was really, I don't know, it had the thing that was so like interesting about it was the culture around it. Like it was, if it was here now, it would be the cringiest thing ever because I don't know, just looking back at my videos. It's shocking. I wish I had access to those. Well yours and mine honestly. But yeah, I was using musically like basically like dub smash and I was obsessed with the musically, how do you even put it like the choreography? The style is so distinct. You know what I'm talking about, right? Like the yeah, moving the phone and moving the phone just the, I don't know, on beat, just all the lyrics. It was an art, yeah, and I admired from far far far away. So why did you, why did you do in TikTok and what has it been like to be like one of the early adopters of TikTok? When I think of like very early TikTok stars, I think of you. Really? Oh my gosh. It's so weird to think about like we said, you know, there's like a post pre-COVID type of shift. So thinking back, it was my, I actually had a girlfriend at the time. And she, yeah, I know. And she was on, oh, and she was on TikTok and we made a video on her account that did pretty good like that I was in and it was like me being a sim. Oh yes, I remember this. Yeah, no, sims was like the, like the catalyst, you know. So I basically made an account and this was like April of 2019. So I'm not like one of the, because I know like OG, OG, OG is like 2018. Lauren Gray. Yeah, exactly. But I essentially just kept making videos of like what, like literally the comments were like, that's funny. And I do it again. And then like that's funny. And I do it again. And it was like literally like a drug. Like I could not stop just like making videos for what people were like commenting about. Like it was super validating at the time. Like I was, I was going crazy. So yeah, then COVID happened. And then I had nothing else to do but that. So And that's, dude, would you say during COVID, it was when you really exploded or was it even before that? Um, yeah. So I would say at the time, at that time, like having a video with like 10, 20,000 likes was like viral. Right, right. Yeah, it was viral. And I had a few videos that like got like towards like 50,000 likes or something like that. And it was like, it was crazy. And um, I, then when COVID happened, I made like a video of like a sim, like getting blocked by a play on the ground and I walked in place. Like all I did was walk in place. You're really good at that walk. I literally don't know how I just discovered to do it. Like I literally saw someone do it. I was like, I don't try. And then it just worked. I didn't. And I don't even know, like, I don't even, it's such a weird thing. And I don't even do it anymore. I haven't even walked in place in like a good two years. Um, wow. Yeah. But that video that I made of me walking in place just like got like a million likes like overnight. And then it started trend, like a sim trend. You know, I would like to say it did, but I feel like there was already some sort of like sim type walk type thing in my video, which is the one that got pushed to the front. So I think if anything, it just like relit it up. I don't want to take the credit because I don't know. But uh, yeah, it was, well, I don't know, I have a major anxiety of being like, yes, I did that when like, you know, it was, you never know. Like, like, I mean, like you think you made up something, but you can't remember what inspired you to make it. Like sometimes I see memes floating around that I can't even remember if I made them or not. Like, I'll see them rep, because you know, like repost accounts kind of just, and I repost memes too with credit sometimes. And like I do repost like tweets sometimes. But like sometimes I'll find one of my memes that I make like randomly or at least I think they're mine. And I, I don't say anything because I don't really care. But I'm like, I genuinely cannot remember if I made this. Yeah, why? It's so weird how the brain just like turns into mush when it comes to like, how the order of events happened. Like, what you were inspired by, you know, and you just got a double, you just got a double triple check or, you know, I don't know. It gets weird. Duncan, your wikipedia page is going to say, Duncan Joseph is the inventor of the Simwalk. And it's going to be citing this podcast as proof. Oh, no. Oh my gosh. I literally am going to freeze up and not be able to talk for a week because I, I literally, there was this other, I literally remember this other guy. It's weird because he did it like differently. Like there were two walks. There was one where like, you kept your foot down. It's so funny how like mundane. Like, but I don't know. Some people take the real seriously. So, but I, I'm enjoying this. No, literally, it's interesting because there's one walk where you plant one foot. And then the other, you just like swipe it across the floor. And like, I don't know. It's like the Zoe, you know, Zoe fish. Like, that's the one that Zoe fish does. I don't know if you know, Zoe fish. That was like, sounds familiar. I don't know. She did like the, the speed ramps like of like, she did the, oh gosh. What's that? What's that dance? It's like, I'm just the up. No, no, no, no. I can't remember. The people listening to this. Well, look it up. We'll look it up. We'll post one of them. Zoe fish. Zoe fish. The Zoe fish. The Zoe fish. Yeah. Yeah. So there's the Zoe fish walk. And then my walk is I'm literally like, like, exaggeratively walking like in place, but like moonwalking in place. Yeah. And it's so overcomplicated for no reason. But it gets people to kick, you know? It's, it's very funny. So that kind of started you off. But then I know you're very well known for your wigs and your wig to character is. Yes. The wigs. The lovely wigs. I want, do you have a wig closet or how many wigs? So I probably have like close to maybe 20. Oh, wow. Yeah. I just found like a toy story backpack from Disney that I opened and exploded with wigs. And they're all just like, yeah, because when I was, I've moved, like over the past four years, I've moved to like, like probably six or six. different places and I just like have to keep things in the most random places. So I have this like backpack that is so tiny. It's like a little tiny Disney backpack. Is it those ones that like the Disney bounders use? Do you know what Disney bounding is? Sorry. Oh, how could I not know what Disney bounding is? That's true. You've done like the Disney adult stuff. It's my job to know Disney bounding. I actually have to participate in it every month. Oh, no, no, I don't, I don't, but you never know. Do you know what Disney bounding is, Kaya? I do not, but Sophie and I are going to be in Disney world. Yeah, we're going to Disney world soon. Like you guys have to Disney bound. We should Disney bound. Okay, let's explain what, okay. You probably know it better than I, but Disney bounding is, so isn't there like a Disney is so interesting? Isn't there a role that like guests can't cosplay as Disney characters because they don't want to be like mistaken as the the cast members at the, you know, like if I were to dress up as Cinderella, people might confuse me as like a Disney employee. Yeah, not only will people don't confuse you, but it's also like illegal at the parks. Like you're not literally allowed to do it. Yeah, you're not allowed to do it. So to get around this, people who want to represent their favorite character is to wrap them. They dress up in outfits inspired by the Disney characters, so they're not cosplays. But if I were to dress up as Cinderella, Disney, if I was to Disney bound as Cinderella, I would wear maybe like a blue shirt in a blue skirt and maybe I'll put a yellow bow in my hair and then wear some like jelly like clear jelly clogs or something, you know, like you kind of have the vibe. I need to see myself it on you. I need to do that. I'm going to do it. But you know, so you kind of like emulate the vibe, but you can't actually dress up as them. And sometimes the Disney bounders have these like special Disney backpacks that have the character on the back pack. If they want to like fully tie it together. So yeah. That sounds, that sounds sexy. No, okay. Well, now I want to move to Orlando. So we can become Disney. Yeah, Disney adult influencers. Yeah, I love Disney adults. I wonder like if there's like a, because like obviously, there's a community out here of people who are going to Disney world like a lot. And I wonder if there's like a specific like neighborhood in Orlando that's like just a bizarre amount of people. Girl, you can, there is a, there you can literally live on Disney property. There's a like living development thing. Have a neighborhood. Yeah. Have a neighborhood. Okay. Well, you can literally live there, but a man murdered his family there. So there's that. What? Yeah. Oh, you don't know about that. No, it's crazy. Wait, I wish I had my phone by me. Wait, maybe I do. Someone got murdered at the Disney neighborhood. I think, I think like the husband killed his family there. No. Yes. Wait, that's so sad, especially. I better not be there. Be spreading disinfo right now, but I'm pretty sure it's true. Well, I think definitely, some sort of murder definitely happened on the Disney property, but I believe it was like his family that he killed. Wow. So yes, okay, let's move there, Kaya. But you better not, don't try that on me. So we basically are already Disney adults. We really aren't, but yes, we, I don't think we're as committed as the real Disney adults, but we're on our way. Like, there's like, we are, I don't know if we are allowed to call ourselves Disney adults when we're not really putting in the work. You know what I mean? Like, Duncan, you've done a Disney adult as a character before, right? Yes. I have done it on TikTok and YouTube and I even like infiltrated a Disney adult like Facebook group for YouTube video and I like read all of their things and I joined and I like commented on their stuff. And my favorite one was how someone put on, when you go to a Disney hotel, you turn on the TV and there's always that like landing page of like the parks and like the weather and all of that. And this one girl, one lady at home always has her TV on that page to make her feel like she's at the hotel. And I love her so much. So I messaged her and I was like, you're so smart. Like, because I would lowkey do something like that. But anyways, that's that group. It was great. You know, like there's, so as you can see, there's like a real commitment to the Disney lifestyle. Well, I think we can take the leap and I think we can do it. I think it's one is going to Disney for the first time because I've never been to Disney before. That's step one. That is step one. That is step one. I feel like I love, I've done Disney adult rabbit holes before. I've found them utterly fascinating people. They are truly an enigma and I don't mean it maliciously at all. I'm just genuinely fascinated by them. And yeah, I don't know I feel like with you, the characters you do, I never feel like you're disrespecting the people you're trying to imitate. I feel like there's a reverence there. Yeah, I'm happy to hear that you think that because I just want to do a spin on satire, just like an overemphasized version, never literally blatantly just making fun and being just mean to. I do a caricature of a Disney adult. If I'm making fun of anyone, it's me, myself, as that. Because I don't know, I just don't find it funny to be like, I hate these people. That's just not funny. That's just for haters that are rude and stuff. It's so much more fun to appreciate. Yeah, it is because it's funny to just be like, I'm like, it's funnier to be obsessed with them than to be just like a plane hater. Because that's, I don't know. Yeah, do people give you anything for your character? Because that's I think that's probably your most famous character, right? The woman is a great wig. She's so hard. I remember dying at those videos like when they were first, like when you first made them. I'm like so nostalgic. I'm nostalgic too about it because I like, my brain was so just like smooth and nothing was, like there was no fog in there. Like I wasn't having any thoughts other than just like, this is fun, you know? And like I just love that era of like not having the frontal cortex of my brain, you know? So it was, it was really easy just to like put something together. And just, I don't know, it's nostalgic for me because I like felt like it was the first time I was actually like expressing myself per se because I don't know in school, like I don't, I was just such this like workaholic and like yeah, I didn't see it. Same. Same. You were. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I was crazy. Yeah, I don't know. We did the workaholics. Yeah, no, seriously, it's, you know, it's contagious. The workaholic, the one thing to be best, but like at that time, I like, I don't know, it was a different outlet. And also like COVID, too, where nothing like for me, like I have OCD and I have OCD related to like academics or any like achievement. And during like COVID, I was like, oh, this just, this shit does does not matter as much as I thought it did because every the world just stopped right now. Yeah. And nothing like the world didn't, I guess the world was ending. So it's like in a way, as we knew it for a moment. And I, I thought like we should all care about our health right now. And like who, who, who literally cares about a 10 point quiz? Like, so that really helped me. And that's around the time I, like a little bit after that I started Joan of Arc and I think I was in a better mindset to just like not care and have fun. Like I feel like the best content comes out of when you're just, you're being yourself and you're being spontaneous and just having fun with it. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I miss that era. You're now to make videos like I know you still obviously make videos all the time, but is it a little less fun or is it my different kind of fun or what? You know, it's, this is actually something that I talked to my therapist about. It goes. Oh, it's actually a very, very, like I could go so deep on this because this ties a lot with like my identity and also like my inspiration as a creative and like even just like what I know, like what I know, like what I'm sharing with the world versus like what I know about myself. There is just, I've recently opened a huge can of worms about like who is Duncan? Like I have all these characters. Like it's just giving like artist catastrophe, you know, it's giving what is it called? Seven or no, no, no, no, what is it? The guy who has like multiple personalities split, split, split. Oh my god. Didn't you do a split video? I feel like you've done one. Oh, you haven't. I didn't because I was gunna and I like, I was worried about the connotations of people that actually. Oh, the, you know, I'm in Dela affected my brain to thinking you did that. No, I think it's the Mandela effect if only you think that happened, but still No, but note I think it is because if Joan of Arc I think something happened and I'm I'm gonna believe that it happened You know, you got your finger on the pulse of pop culture. Oh, thank you. So do you. Thank you Yeah, I can imagine that would be really Hard because you spent all this time doing characters and like that basically your career Yeah, in high school. I was such a people pleaser I was hanging out with like all the different types of groups of friends of people like I would switch I literally split like literally Would like change the way I talked way I just around you know, and I know it's like a very Yeah, I feel like a lot of the people that probably listen to this can relate to that um and It was weird because when I started social media I when I made the videos people in the comments are make up like a sort of image of who you are and The image that people like thought of who I was based off what I was showing to them because I literally had no self Perception of myself. I was like, oh wait. This is who I am, you know, like I literally my forming brain literally looked at these comments And was like the like okay, I've never really known who I am So I'm just gonna go off all these people that are you know giving me you know are following me, you know And then after a while I realized that like this is a career and this is like a job and these characters are like not to make me happy But to just like to share with my audience and it's been a really interesting journey of Being like okay, I need to separate myself from that figure out who I am and I feel like I've always had a very Logical type brain when it comes to school, you know social media But since COVID I've really allowed the creative side of myself to You know to shine to to be able to not push that side away and It's been really amazing and fun but also daunting because it's like the fear of the unknown of how what I'm gonna do and stuff But it's it's really exciting because I get to share I'm allowing myself to share more of myself on the internet You know not just the funny parts, but the interesting parts. Oh, I love this is this is I'm I'm really impressed Like I feel like I'm getting so much interesting information right now Yeah, do you have any do you have any advice for people who are trying to figure out who they are? Not to be like RuPaul right now, but yeah This is this is say hello to five-year-old Duncan. What would you say? Wow, just kidding, you know those like yeah, no literally here's a photo of you. Yes Like how do you how do you like take a step back and discover like yourself? Like what have you been doing to like what have you been doing to do that? Yeah, I'm still very early in that process You know, it is still kind of early in the process, but what I've learned so far is To literally Stop that like that self-examined like the self-examined voice in your head that's always like Understanding the things that you do it can actually it's a double-edged sword because I thought that like always overanalyzing the things that I was doing was Really helpful to like figure out who I am and then some ways there are healthy ways to do that But if you just allow yourself to turn off that voice that is always trying to figure out what's going on But to take away the control of figuring out who you are But just to allow yourself to live Happily and authentically and surround yourself with people that you you know genuinely enjoy and aren't like overthinking about You know what this what I don't know overthinking how something's affecting you or how What the result of what's going to go on and how it's changing who you are I don't know these are the types of things that I've been doing for so long But if I just put that all aside After a while the real you will just come organically because you're allowing yourself to let go of the handles and just like let the self-auto drive You know go and like it's been it's really scary to like let go of the handles, but You know after you just let go and let yourself you know just follow the happy The happy compass You know it starts to it starts to show that was beautiful. Thank you. So I made no sense. Probably no idea. It's good advice you are I Think you should have like a motivation like you should be a life coach a life coach I need a life coach first and then then we can talk about that, but I appreciate it So I was talking to Kaya recently about tick-tock and what's going on with tick-tock right now. Do you like Kaya Do you remember we were like wondering about? What's going on with the app well like with regards to it seems possible? Like pretty high like pretty pretty likely not not guaranteed but pretty likely that the app Will be banned in the near future How do you feel about that? We were curious. So I have a very Interesting perspective because this This situation has been all this conversation has always been coming back and around and around like the threat of it being banned I remember like in 2021 it was really scary and It you know it fell through That was crazy. We were all going on live synced by to our followers. That was crazy. Anyways. Sorry. Oh my god Please I remember that It's crazy. I have like a thank you video and I'm like crying and like I'm holding my wig in my right hand And I'm and I'm also hiding for my family in my car in the garage Like so they can't hear me crying on this video being like you can change my life I'm like shaking the wig in my hand like this is you know, anyway, sorry that was Sideplot, but um, yeah, but now we're at a point where it really is hitting capital Hill and last March I believe I Went to DC with tiktok and oh wow um, I was with the CEO of tiktok and sat with him at Congress and With the committee that was deciding to ban tiktok and that was the most interesting thing I've ever seen Oh my gosh. This is insane. Wow crazy because Literally all like all these media outlets all over the world were coming up and being like I would you like to be on live news? We are live in Germany and I was like hi, okay Oh, well and they'd say like so where would you go if tiktok is gone? Where would you what was your next job? What would be your next job and I'd be like And that was like total simulation just have to put that out there. It was very weird, but I Think based off the conversations of what I've heard is that It would take of like something big to happen on tiktok like a incident regarding You know someone's safety or just something that like the lawmakers can use to like scapego Or you not scapego but just like use as the prime Example of why tiktok needs to go for it to really gain traction because This has just been a really floaty topic and There's a lot of xenophobia involved in it and there's also a Lot of issues with free speech and it's gonna open a huge can of worms in terms of like AI and stuff So I feel like it's super easy just to have a headline that's like you know tiktok under threat again But there's so much attached to it and it would take I feel like it's like something huge would have to Happen like as a result of the app for lawmakers to go. Okay here. See. This is why it's got to go, you know I see that's that's crazy that you actually Met the CEO and you were there like that's crazy It was so I felt like you know, I went to the CEO of tiktok and I said I'm gonna change the world You had one shot. I had one shot. No, I was do you rent was rent was do the wig was fried Sim walk wasn't walking One mission one one mission one wig Yeah, it was very very interesting experience but I don't know a lot of the lawmakers like literally one of the most if Tiktok like connects to your home Wi-Fi network And it was just like oh my god. Do you remember that do you remember those questions? Yeah, yeah, I do I definitely do Kaya I know we I think we talked about it on the show Yeah, I remember it's it's a little scary because There's a lot of stupidity and it's really hard to know like are you actually that stupid or are you just like fear mongering because you're a politician and Obviously I remember that the CEO he's like from Singapore and like he was being grilled They kept asking if he was part of like the the the Chinese Communist Party even though he's from Singapore So I it's all coming back to me now. It was it was definitely a shit show for sure Yeah. Yeah. I remember they asked just like, not even boomer questions, like the silent generation questions, like questions, at least from the coverage I got questions that are, that's displayed that they clearly don't even understand the app that they're trying to ban, or even the social media period, like, I guess it just goes to show how old our politicians are here. Like they're so old, they're so out of touch with something really important. Yeah. In this eye. No, seriously. No, seriously. The media landscape or whatever, like out of touch. So like, if they're going to campaign to ban it, or if they're seriously like interested in figuring out if it should be banned, they should at least do their research. Yeah. No, seriously, because they have the little assistance and stuff that give them the information, but they don't understand it because it's just like words on a piece of paper, you know? So then there's just those like key words that scare them and then they go to TikTok, connect to the internet, you know, and it's just like, what are you doing? God. Yeah, I, you know, I never got into TikTok very much. I have like 10k on there, and I never post, like, I do, if I need to post something on Joan of Arc, that I want to use TikTok to make, but I just, I don't know, my style of content, sorry, I hate saying this content creation is probably like, you know, it's mostly image-based and I don't really make videos, and I definitely, I'm usually not in, if I make a video, I'm usually not in it. So it was, I don't like being filmed, sometimes it's uncomfortable for me, so I just could never get into it like I did it with Instagram, but I, I do use it all the time. Like I watch TikTok constantly, but I, yeah, I, I guess like for me, I have like less stake in it because I'm so, like, I'm Instagram's darling, you know, like I'm an Instagram girl. It's just how it happened, so yeah, I don't know, I, I would be, I don't know, because I have less stake in it, I'm not like, I, I imagine like it probably is way more scary for someone who's very like invested in TikTok, but for me, it's a little less scary, and I know it threatens like all people in this, I guess industry, but I don't know, it's, it's a little, I could imagine, it's scary, even if you, you know, think it's not going to happen, the threat is a little bit scary. Yeah, it is because literally TikTok has turned into like a limb of the internet, like people have like moved there from all, like from Instagram from you, you know, it's like a home for a lot of people where they have like friends and community and like even like support for like, I don't know, the people that don't get hurt on other social platforms, like it's their, their spot in order to share their message, and it's like super important in terms of just like advocacy and, you know, it's, it's, it's a chunk, it's a big chunk of the internet now. It's grown to be one of the, like one of the largest groups of the internet, you know, and for that to go would like be crazy, like I don't know what, I mean, I, I know it is for America, but it's not like the whole thing would shut down, it'd just be for the USA, so you could use a VPN, but I don't know. So a murky future ahead, I guess, but probably according, so, so your take is that it's probably not going to get banned from your point of view. I think if anything, the next thing that's going to happen is that they're going to have to place like some crazy restriction on it, I don't know what that would mean, but like something, another step that would have to be done, or just like in really intense moderation, I have no idea what that entails, but like, I think it could, it definitely could go away. Maybe at like a state level, but, wow, yeah, we'll see. Oh my goodness, that is, I know, a lot, I think goodness for Instagram reels, I guess. Yeah, the goodness for Instagram reels. Uh, good times. So you can always, yeah, you can always make some sim-walking videos and Instagram worst-case scenario. Yeah, that will, that will immediately, that'll blow up. No, literally, that is, that is the plan B or YouTube shorts, those, those are crazy. Oh, I can't forget about YouTube shorts, are you on there too? I am, it's the only reason that I was able to grow, um, this like past year or whatever. Oh, really interesting. Yeah, yeah, um, I posted on shorts, I uploaded my TikToks on there, and then the people watched my shorts and then watched my YouTube videos. And then that, once they watched my full YouTube videos, then they would like subscribe. So I owe YouTube shorts all the gratitude for that. That's so interesting. So, what do you do on YouTube besides like the shorts? Like, what are your YouTube videos like? My YouTube videos are, it's a lot of, it's a lot of pranks, it's a, yes, we need to bring, we need to bring back Kaya, remember all those prank YouTubers that were like huge and kind of on like around the vine era? Of course, of course. How could you forget? We need to bring that back, but, yeah, we do, well, not all of it back because it was, it was really insane, but, that was the social experiments, the, there are a lot of social experiments, the social experiments were social experiments. No, exactly. Yeah, so you do pranks, do you do like character stuff too? No, it's not really character stuff, honestly on there, like I do a lot of catfishing, so I go on Tinder as like a grandma or like I go on like Facebook as a Disney adult or I print call. One time I, literally for two videos, I don't know how like, I didn't get like a season to this for this. I called schools as a mom, it was like, is Ryan there, like, where's my son, you know, I think I think, like I would call schools and they'd be like, I don't know who you are. I, like, how did I, I don't even, I'm, so people want me to do that again. I'm so scared. It was a, it was a social experiment, so they can't get mad at you, right? Like, it was, it's actually science. It's a science, it's, it's data, it's chemical, it's, you cannot change it. No, it's true, like, people love to hate science. People love to hate it, but you can't beat facts, just can't beat it. Yeah, the facts don't care about your feelings, so. Yeah, the facts do not care about your feelings, deal with it. Yeah. Owned. Owned. Okay, well, that's, that's so, I, I enjoyed those videos a lot, like the scam, but he, like not, not, well, I like scammer videos where people like, scam the scammers, but I watched it. I love doing that. Yeah. A lot, and I do like, the prank call, I would be too scared to do it, but like, it seems very fun and thrilling. It's fun after the video's done, but in the moment I'm like, between phone calls, I'm like having a panic attack because I'm so nervous. Yeah. Did you ever do like, oh, a megal video? I did. Yeah. I did. I can't even take this long for it to, to, to die. I know the amount of like times I had to cut out. Oh, I'm sure. People from my video because I'm sure. Like back, the last one, it was like back to back to back to back to back. I was like, this is like, there are kids on here. I know. Well, that's the thing. Like, I can't believe it was legal. Like, I don't, how is, okay, how, why wasn't there like a campaign to bano megal? And not over tick-tock, like, yeah. The amount of trauma that site has created is insurmountable, like it's crazy. It's changed the, like, the chemical balances of my brain. I, I remember going on their, like, 13 and being traumatized and, I don't know, like, it is, I just can't believe it was legal or it was legal. It's gone now, whatever, but yeah, but I bet it was kind of fun on their kind of, not, I don't know. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Being traumatized on the internet is like such a, it's like so crazy how we're in that era where it's so common for something like that to happen, you know. Every single person I know, I think has gone through something like that on the internet, me too. Like, I have a story where I was, so I speak Japanese and when I was learning Japanese at a, like, young age, I would use this, like, penpal site to, like, email people from Japan and then they would email me back in English. Like, it would be like a language exchange and like, I ended up, like, talking to, like, I'm, like, creepy old man who wanted photos of me and I was, like, 12 and, like, holy shit. What is going on? And I didn't read. Yeah. It's, it happens to everyone that, like, kick, thank God I never got kicked because that would have been bad, but, like, there are so many different ways for young people to be traumatized on the internet. and like Kaya I know you've talked about like like this like you remember those like jump scare videos yes of course like those like even back then like people were getting I mean maybe not traumatized with deeply scared that's definitely the same same category yeah that's the same category yeah I'm I may have not been groomed but I was jump scared so I'm traumatized yeah so I mean I feel like everyone has had some weird experience on the internet okay to be fair I actually did like scar my sister with a jump scare there was like oh that's right there was this where's Waldo jump scare where there was like no Waldo in the image and you're trying to like find Waldo and then like a scary image pops up with like a loud scream or whatever and I showed my sister I did that to my sister I told her to try to find Waldo and she was like really young so she actually did develop like a phobia of the internet for a solid like couple years so yeah the internet it all it scars us in different ways wow have you a toned for that Kaya I feel like that was I don't think I'm ever gonna be able to a tone for that like I really want to I've I've apologized many shout out to Annabelle she's probably listening I think she probably is shout out to Annabelle we love you yeah that's my story that's my that's your story we all have our stories we all we all do I um I wanted to put out the one thing that's like I was not the the well in a way I I was a victim of it but in 2020 I made a lot there was like I think the biggest most impactful thing of social media for me was all the group chats that on Snapchat that were like all of us creators would make like like take talk take talk readers yeah take talk creators yeah I'll make these Snapchat group group chats and they that is a whole other conversation because I could talk for three hours about all the stuff that we did we literally had like and like an illuminati of creators that like created like events that happened on TikTok and rumors and stuff like we we like planted seeds on like really niche accounts so interesting you say this because we really the Instagram meme account community also did the same thing around the same time yeah like there is like like the big meme accounts on Instagram that like I'm still friends with like on a downward spiral yeah and like life subender like those are like my friends like in other meme pages like life subender oh my gosh Mia she's it was her birthday yesterday she's so amazing and yeah anyway all of us like us like meme accounts would we had like our own group chat and we would like we would like come up with like sign ups to make like something a meme and then it become a meme and then it beyond know your meme like we would we try to like hack the system yeah that you said you didn't similar stuff on TikTok too yeah we like made up a thing that like Noah Beck like painted his abs on and that necessarily short from a car crash and that like hurt her spine and like it was bad I don't know a back thing that's so familiar I remember seeing stuff about that I think it was but that was a sign up that's so amazing yeah um we like it was crazy and then like we like on Snapchat it was so funny like if you were like like viral you'd get like golds a gold star as like a verified creator and we had a whole like group a group chat of called gold stars and we would just like add all as many like gold star like TikTokers as we could so like Vinnie Hacker Nessa even Madison here was in there yeah it was so crazy and we literally just like trolled them so much but what but going back to the trauma thing we made um oh right yes 40 of us made a group account called playful little kitten and yeah and we literally like can I swear shit posted yeah of course okay cool we we shit posted on there just like tons and tons of videos and like it had like it was create it was such an intense era but um we there was just a lot of like conversation about the account in terms of like oh my god they're adding so many people like at one point Alex Kinsani was on there and like yeah oh my god and we all like it was just like people were like oh my god this for the Sunday account but then it got hacked and someone whoever hacked posted a video of someone not being here anymore if you know what I mean and uh oh my god over like a hundred thousand people saw it before it went down because like it was at that point of the it was at that point where like when he posted a video like so many people were on the account that like just a bunch of people saw it already because it was such like a right conversation piece so like literally like oh my gosh a new video literally a live stream of someone you know and uh it traumatized so many people and we had to delete the account and it was a crazy fiasco that literally I will never get over that I can't believe that it all happens so fast and literally just don't give a bunch of teenagers during COVID like 40 people in account because the password will be shared and yeah anyways so this was a Snapchat account so oh sorry I didn't make it clear or TikTok account that you guys all made together this a lot of the Snapchat people made a TikTok group account oh I see like a high-pouse type type thing yeah but like oh sorry go ahead I was just gonna say we since it was like COVID we just all like had the login so it was just like a bunch of different people from across still posting videos yeah so did okay so question have you been to the high-pouse before I have I have oh my god how was it or is it is it kind of lock and key confidentiality oh you don't get to know no it's it was very interesting uh felt kind of black mirror um I don't know it was you know it's a unique experience cuz like all these people are depressed and anxious and or are the opposite overconfident and I don't know like no like I've been to like I've went to a lot of content houses like none of them are happy I mean I wasn't happy but like it's it's just kind of like everyone's stressed like it was so weird like I don't know all their videos are like we're just one big happy family and then I go there and like I literally want to kill this person right now and it was just like what did I walk into it felt like the hunger games so wow like what what what goes on in there the people just making videos constantly is there like a quota yeah so there's like quotas there's also like they get like brand deals like for the house that like everyone has to do and it gets tough because like people have their own personal brand deals and then like I don't there's a lot of it's just a lot of moving parts and it's just like what can we do next and it's weird because a lot of this just like fizzled out like I feel like there aren't really is like high-pastel a thing oh I don't know I mean I was gonna ask you that because I thought maybe you would know more than I would but yeah no I honestly I've lost total touch of this stuff like that but I remember like 2021 I'd go to those and it was just like I I mostly went when they like we're hosting something not like the regular day-to-day like you know but on the regular day-to-days like I don't know it was it was like literally just it was like a big brother house you know so what I would give to be a fly on the wall it was great I will literally if I could like give those memories to someone else I would so they could so you were really in like the tick the tick-tock I don't know like star milieu like community like you you I assume you've seen some shit yeah you know I have just kind of been like that funny guy that like it's like this is like literally if I were to like be around those like types of people they look at me and they like grab my shoulder like this is this is a funny dude you're funny you know and it's like kind of like demeaning and you know it's really just that but like I've never really like had too much interest in like you know like collabing with those people and stuff like that because I don't know it it just never really inspired me per se because at the end of the day like I don't know I don't know where I'm going at but it I'm just like this kind of miscellaneous little it's kind of like high school like I'd like I'd see the popular kids but then I'd be with the people that I you know generally like having much with and I don't know it was it was weird so you're a little bit like you were never really like invested in that but now it's like even less so you're more kind of just like less engaged like is there still like TikTok creator friend group community or nowhere in near where it was at all. It used to be so, like, group, sent, like, it was literally, it was so focused on like, the types of friend groups. And like, it was like, oh, these people, like, they always come to the party together. And it was, I don't know, like, there wasn't really like that single soul person. Like, it was always like, they're squad. And now, like, there's just been so many enemies made, where it's just you got that, like, a lot of those people now just have, like, they're one best friend. And, um, yeah. And also because I feel like the hype of, like, the social media star, like, right now, there's not really, like, a Charlie Demelio, you know, like, I feel like this whole landscape has changed so much, where, like, there's not really any room or, like, hype or blueprint for that to happen again. - Right, now, and like, no, anyone can kind of get there. And it's not like, it's not, I feel like, at least for me, like, my perspective, being big on TikTok is pretty, like, excess. Mm, I don't know, I don't understand the algorithm as much as I do Instagram's algorithm. But as far as I know, like, I feel like in the early days of TikTok, like, everyone knew who was big on TikTok. And now, there's just so many people who are big on TikTok. It's like, there's no one big on TikTok. Does that make sense? - Oh, yeah, so saturated now. - Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know, like, are you open to, like, talking about, like, the app, like, what you like? I know, like, I don't know, we can cut this part out, but, like, like, is there other things that have changed about the app that you like or don't like, or if we can't, if you don't want to talk about them, that's fine. - Oh, no, it's fine. I hate how it's, like, literally, it used to be, like, a video sharing app, and now it's, like, peak capitalism, like, with the TikTok shop. - Yes, can you tell us more about TikTok shop? We did an episode talking about it, and we, like, hate it so much. - Yeah, I literally think it is the devil. - Same. - They should ban that, you know, because people, literally, like, there's a motivating factor where, if you see something on TikTok shop, that you have in your house, like, literally, what people will do is, and I've heard this, I've, this is, like, I know a few people that, or, like, they're, like, my roommate does this. They will go around their house, look for something, see if it's on TikTok shop, and then make a video trying to sell people so they can get a commission off of it. - Oh, my God. - And they do that too, as many products around their house, like, oh, my God, wait, this lamp I have is on TikTok shop, so then they make a video about it, and it just is turning people into these, like, capitalism minions. - No, everyone can be an influencer. - No, everyone can be an influencer, now you can't make money, and fast, you know, fast-fashion factors. - It's actually, like, a genius idea, like, it's evil, genius, because it, because, like, I feel like everyone wants to be an influencer. I, by the way, I don't know about you, but I don't really see myself as an influencer, but, you know, like, everyone wants to be an influencer, and now, what TikTok does is it sells that identity to you. Like, you can be an influencer by using TikTok shop, and then you just make more money for them by promoting things on the earth. - Yeah, literally, it's like, TikTok knew what people wanted, and it gave them just a little tiny carrot to, like, let them feel like they can do that. It's, like, creepy. - It is really creepy. I feel like I use TikTok way less now, because TikTok shop has made it actually unusable. Like, when I'm on there, it's like, every time I scroll, it's like TikTok shop, ad, which are different. Like, there's ads, and then there's TikTok shop ads. - Yeah. - And, yeah, so it'll be like TikTok shop, ad, TikTok shop, TikTok shop, and it's always like that. Body oil, it's like ladies. If you want your man to give you a good time, get that body oil, my girl. - Oh, it's unbelievable. - Goddamn body oil, do you know what I'm talking about? - I literally know exactly what you're talking about. It's like the strawberry shortcake, and it's like, your man will wanna, and I'm like, girl, I can. - It's bad, it's real bad. Like, literally, when I get TikTok shop videos like that on my free page, I get a headache, I have a stomach ache. - I start blocking, like, I just can't handle it. - Yeah, it's bad, it's bad. - So, yeah, it's, and I don't think like any other social media platform has been this bad when it comes to, like, e-commerce and ads. - No, no, 'cause Instagram tried a little bit with her own, like, Instagram shop, but then that just kinda got hidden, and now we can-- - And also, like, no one, it wasn't even that annoying either, because it didn't, like, show up in the, like, it wasn't as annoying as it is in TikTok for some reason. - Yeah, they kept it tame, they kept it down, you know. - It was the DL trick, you know. - Mm-hmm. - This is not DL, and no, no, no, no, no, no. - No, TikTok is out of the closet with the e-commerce. - Yes, they are not, they're not that grind or deal. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, again. - Oh, you're not forgiven. - Oh, I know, I couldn't help it. God, yeah. - Man, almighty. Kayo is luckily sheltered from this, 'cause he doesn't really go on TikTok. - I am just sitting here listening and enjoying. I will say the, like, you know, I feel like social media, as it exists with, like, the incentives to get that adrenaline from likes and stuff like that is already just so toxic, and then to, like, double it up to have it, like, you're, like, combining it with the adrenaline of selling stuff and making money, it really, it really sounds like the most insane evil thing. It's, I think, evil genius is the right way to put it. It's almost funny how destructive that has to be for our entire society's, like, mental health. - Yeah, seriously. I'm like, now that we're talking about it, I'm like, maybe Congress needs to, like, bring up that. (laughing) - Yeah, like, can we come up with this, like, solution where we just ban ads on there? - Well, that's probably the one part of TikTok that Congress likes. They're like, okay, we'll ban TikTok, but we can be TikTok shop. - Yeah, exactly. - That's a cool one. - Yeah, Congress probably loves TikTok shop. - They eat it up. They probably ordered off of it. - They probably, oh my God, didn't they? Remember when they banned TikTok off of all government devices? - Oh, they did. - So much paranoia. I don't know, like, and I think I said before this episode, like, when I was talking to Kaya on the phone, I was like, yeah, honestly, like, they can ban TikTok for all, like, here, because I'm so annoyed by the ads, like, the TikTok shop. And, like, it's, it just can't be good for, like, people to be using TikTok, like, regularly, when you're just bombarded with. I mean, it's already addicting. That's, I mean, all social media is addicting. I don't think TikTok is unique in that. But, you know, it's just a lot, it's like overstimulating in every sense. - It is. I honestly, like, it's, I'm in a weird position because, like, you know, I have so much to think for, like, - Right, right, yeah. - I've gone, you know, with, like, my career and everything with it, because my YouTube, my Instagram, all of it, like, the whole platform I've created is thanks to the people that followed me on TikTok, but it's like, now I'm like, okay, wait, either TikTok's, like, gotta do something now. Or, 'cause, like, I'm not a vacating. I am, I, like, literally cried the other day 'cause I was, like, I wanted to let TikTok off my phone, but, like, I can't, because I need to, like, post on it, you know, like, I want it gone. - I'm so sad, I'm so sorry. - No, it's, it's totally fine. It was, like, dramatic cry, not, like, life is ending cry, but, um, it was, uh, it was a weird moment 'cause I was, like, whoa, I genuinely, like, I want to delete this for my own mental health. Like, I want to, like, not be on it, but, and I, but I'd, like, need to, like, see what's going on in order to, like, make a video that's effective to, like, you know. - Right, it's, like, it's your job. - Yeah, and then I'm also, like, part of the problem, like, I'm making the content that people, like, can't look away from, so it's, like, uh. - Duncan, Sophie and I also have many, many, many, many, basically identical feelings that you have with all this stuff on Instagram as well, but with the, with the, you know, find the balance between enjoyment versus, like, identity of who you really want to be online, versus, like, mental health, and wanting a break, and not wanting to contribute to, like, a social media system that's bad for people's mental health, maybe. It is very, very hard. So, it's nice to kind of hear your experience with it 'cause it's, like, a little bit of salt, like, it's like, a little bit of solidarity there, and it's nice to hear that we're not alone with this kind of bizarre struggle. - And, no, Duncan, I really think you have nothing to worry about as far as, like, you're very, like, kind, very kind, smart, nice person, and you make people laugh, you know, like, you're making stuff that is, like, you're, like, the least toxic tick-tocker I can imagine. (laughing) - Are you guys, you guys are, I appreciate that. No, thank you, so I don't even, you know, I agree to disagree, well, you guys, That means a lot to hear from y'all. And also like I-- - I feel like I've made a lot of friends recently that don't do social media because it's so easy just to be surrounded by only social media people, but they don't have the same type of, there's that disconnect on those issues that we can relate to, but to be able to talk again to people that you social media often share these same type of experience. - It probably sounds really crunch to the listeners, like all these people with a lot of followers are complaining, but it is a very unique position that you're put into, and I don't know, it's hard to explain to people. - Yeah, it is, it really is nuanced, and that's why it's meaningful. - But it's really fun too, it's both, it's hard and fun. - It is, yeah, it is. I've always been trying to think of a metaphor for it to make it, you know, but it's so unique and weird. You get to meet, the best part about it for me is like, I can talk to you, I feel like I'm able to meet so many people and talk to so many people, and try things that I never would have had access to if I hadn't done this, like there are places I, for example, I don't know if you would ever have been in that situation with Congress, you know what I mean? There are situations that I would have never been in if it hadn't been for social media, like what I've done on social media, you know? So I am grateful for the fact that I've gotten access to things, like things I, I don't know, like for me, I like to try things, I like to have like lead a full life, I'm very curious person, I like to meet people. So that is the best part about it for me. - Yeah, no, same, it really, it's like sometimes I look back on like my camera roll of things that have happened, and I'm like, I can't believe this, like it's just so unique and like I don't know to live such a interesting life like that, you know, that is unexpected even for myself, it's just like, yeah, it really is something to be like, wow. - And you know, I don't think I regret it at all, like at least right now, I don't regret it. - Yeah. - Well, yeah, thank you so much, Duncan, for coming on today. This is your, I'm so impressed, like you are incredibly great at articulating like all this stuff, like about TikTok and like your experience, and I feel like this is such an interesting conversation and you're just so nice and funny and amazing. - I can't appreciate that enough, it means so much to hear you say that, and like, it really, it means a lot, 'cause I don't really get to talk like this online, or like, you know, I don't do podcasts, like people don't really hear what I have to say. - You should, you're very good at it, very good, you're kind of, right, like he's a natural born podcast brand. - You are a natural, you got the podcast, you got the podcast brand. - You have the podcast brand. - Well, that means so fucking much, coming from you guys, because I really, I really love what y'all do, and I am also even more honored. - Thank you so much. - Yeah, I'm so honored to be able to speak on your guys' podcast, thank you. - Thank you, so yeah, I think we're coming towards the end here, but is there anything like you wanna, like, anything you're working on right now, or anything you wanna call attention to? - Well, in terms of working on, you know, I think everyone needs to do it at therapy, you know, work on, you know, go to therapy, you know, you need it where the people are, you do. And then also, I'm, you know, I'm acting soon, so like be on the lookout for that. - Ice field for that. - Yeah, keep your ice peeled. You're about to see a different side of Duncan, you know what? And, yeah, I don't know, just, I really am just kinda, you know, doing my thing, but- - Soul searching. - Yeah, it's soul searching. So just like, take that with the grain of salt every time my videos pop up is this dude is soul searching. So. (laughs) - Where can the listeners find you on social media besides Duncan, is it all, is it Duncan, you know it? - Yes, Duncan, you know it on YouTube, Duk-Duk, and so yeah, can you not, Duncan. - Keeping it, keeping it simple and easy. - Yes, just, just like that. - Well, thank you so much, Duncan, for coming on today. This is so much fun. - Thank you. - I'm gonna say goodbye, bye everyone. Thanks for listening. - Bye. - Nice to meet you, Duncan. - Based news network. - Based news network, bye. - Bye. - Bye. - Bye.