Duidelijk Gesprek Met Leny Peleman - Koffie En Duurzaamheid

(upbeat music) Welcome to the on your own podcast. Hello best of last rares. This time you can listen to a clear conversation with Leni Peelenman. Leni is a marketing and communications officer at IDKoffie Systems. IDKoffie Systems, they offer coffee pauses on the basis of companies. And they are also the Belgian reference for sharing original coffee and tea in companies. So with Leni I was talking about coffee, but also sustainability. So take a nice cup of coffee with you. Love to be sustainable. And by the way, if you find that the coffee in your company is not so delicious, then I would certainly take a look at the website of IDKoffie. So idkoffie.be, ide, and then coffee in English.be. There you can find delicious coffee. And that delicious coffee is also sustainable. They go to 60% sustainable products. So take a look at it for sure. And lots of pleasure. Okay, good afternoon Leni. - Hello. - Yes, as most of you can imagine. - So I am Leni, I have now become 26 years old a few weeks ago. And I am marketing and communications officer at IDKoffie. And I am passionate about coffee and through life a bit. - Yes, and that passion for coffee has already started a long time ago. - That is still since I actually started studying, that I noticed that I still need an extra need to motivate myself. And yeah, caffeine helps a lot. And also because it is a moment of tranquility. - Yes, okay. - So that's how we handle that passion. - Yes. - And for you, a coffee is a coffee with or without milk, with or without things. - That is actually my favorite coffee is Cappuccino. So my good, healthy milk. But that's not super healthy. And if you drink so much on a day, then that's not so good for me either. So then I'm just going to have a cup of coffee. - Yes, okay. And that's also because you really like to drink it or also really for the caffeine. - Both actually, yes. Apparently there are 800 different aromas in coffee. So I think that's nice to try different flavors. - Yes, okay. And a Cappuccino with bitter milk, is that a plunder? Is that... - Yes, that's not a good idea. You can actually use full milk. - Okay. - And it doesn't matter if it's vegan or something, but if it's full, then you can foam up better. - Yes, okay. And you have a free day tomorrow without obligations. What do you do then? - Oh, that's hard. So anyway, try to sleep out. And then what I find sad is a little coffee, just a Cappuccino, then sit down and a little bit back in your bed or in your seatbelt and read a series. I look or read a book. I like that. Then I will probably walk through it now. And then talk to my friends and go to the cafe or do something or leave something behind. - Yes, okay. You already said, "Hey, you're going to watch something." What do you like to watch? - The typical rom-coms. But besides that, the series, like now when I'm blind, they're all guilty pleasures. But I like that. Not always thinking about things, no thrillers or horror. I don't like that. So what? The happy vibes. - Yes, okay. I have a couple more dilemmas for you. Instead of a Sunday without coffee or a rainy day with coffee. - Rainy day. - Yes, right. - Yes, so coffee really needs bread. - Well, you think that's just because I like to drink, but then I tried something, because in the exam I drank a lot, sometimes I really don't drink coffee on a day. And then I always have a detox period that I take because it's two or three days without coffee. And then I really feel like, "I don't feel like it anymore because I'm not studying anymore." But then there's a fallback. Exactly like, "Okay, that caffeine will do something for you." So I think that's also a kind of fallback. - Yes, yes, yes. - But well, I'm trying now for three to four days. So I think that's still healthy. - Yes, okay. And maybe another one, open a coffee bar. Or a shop with insurance in a big company. - Open a coffee bar, without doubt. Yes, that's actually one of my big dreams. That I would really like to have a sustainable coffee bar, where I can actually connect with each other and create a fun place. - Yes, okay. In those days, without obligations, you can already talk to friends, connect those coffee bars to people. Is that how you are socially? - Yes, I'm still very far, I think. I can only enjoy it when I can work with people, babble with them, or just be with someone. I think that's more than just being alone. And also in my job, I notice that when I, for example, because I'm also a copywriter, so when I have to write a lot, I'm also happy that I can do something more relational afterwards. - Yes, okay. And is that also really necessary in marketing, to be extravagant? - I don't think so, because marketing has a lot of different facets. You have copywriters, most of them are nerds. They are passionate nerds. So that's something you can see in me. But if you're going to be on a show, or you're going to sell your product, then it's better to be a little extravagant, I think. - Yes, okay. But do you still have some stress when you meet new people? - Of course, yes. It depends on who you're going to meet, whether you feel like it or not. And yes, it depends a bit on the situation. If that's professional, then it might be less exciting than if you're someone, like you had a first date or something, then everyone has to be stressed. - That's normal, yes. Okay, good. - I had written a few words like that, and the intention is that you explain it as clearly as possible. - Okay, yes. - Espresso. - Espresso, so that's coffee. In any case, you normally use 8 grams of Espresso, and that's very technical, but it has a duration of 25 to 30 seconds. And then you have a sort of black fluid that gives you a sense of direction. - Okay, okay, good. And for an espresso, is it more convenient to have an espresso machine? - It depends on what you mean by espresso machine. Yes, I think that's a very technical term, but for example, we have a half-automated machine, and I personally think it's best to have an espresso machine with respect to capsules, because you can set your expiration date, your duration, and you can also choose your bonus. - Yes, okay. And if you do all that yourself, you have done a lot of research, you have done a lot of research, what will be the best fit for your coffee? - With the machine, yes. Actually, I was just in the corona period, and I thought, oh, those capsules, I bought a lot of espresso, and that's actually quite expensive per capsule. Andra Merche, too, of course. And then I started to calculate, when I drink so much coffee a day, and I would use coffee beans, how much does that cost on a term, and then also with the machine. And actually, in a year and a half, everything is already paid back. And do you actually make a profit per cup of coffee a day? - So in a half-automatic way, if you like quality coffee, and you also want to support local traders with coffee beans, then that's the best option. - Yes, okay, okay. And you'll talk about the cappuccino soon, but what is a cappuccino now? - A cappuccino is actually an espresso linked with steamed milk, and then also a little bit of milk that dissolves in your coffee. So a little bit of warm milk, coffee espresso, and steamed milk. And the amount is usually one second, one second. - Okay, and imagine you go to a coffee bar and you ask for a cappuccino, it's actually not exactly what they serve you, is that a problem for you? - I'm not a very difficult customer, although I'm not trying to be. I'm certainly not going to put back any coffee. But I do get a lot of interest in that. For example, you get a good coffee with a love sign, with a cookie at the cappuccino. Then I'll go back for sure. - Yes, okay, a cookie at a good cookie. - Love with chocolate. - Yes, okay. - Okay, and if I understand it well, then you also sell it to coffee enthusiasts. - Yes, actually our company is selling and selling very short amounts. Coffee machine with coffee beans or ground coffee. But actually we see everything for the full coffee break, so sugar, milk, cookies, the cups, self-cultivating products and so on. So our scope is very wide. And we try to be a little bit more expensive today. - Yes, okay, yes, okay. The next word is "coffee mixed", what is that? - That's actually, it looks a lot like a cappuccino, but there's a lot more milk in it. So, and the work, how you put it, is also different. So you're actually going to start by letting your frozen milk go through, then add your espresso, which makes the coffee a little bit soft. And that you get such a nice variety of colors. - Okay, yes. - And what does that come about for the experts in another country? - That's like a latte macchiato. - Oh yes, okay, good. I have one more, turkish coffee. What is that and do you like to drink that? - Turkish coffee I actually never drank before. I think that it's very strong coffee. And also in a special way. I recently got a Lebanese coffee set, that you have to put on your stuff. And I think there was also a coffee house underneath this. But I never drank it myself, actually. - Okay, yeah, okay, good. So, you've already spoken a little bit about it, but how do you make your coffee at home? What do you do? - So I put a lot of cappuccinos with all my halwa tomatoes. So there are already beans in the machine. What I do is just choose the ingredients yourself. So then the coffee goes through there. And then I actually put it on my milk. Actually, it's better if you want to make a drawing for a good cappuccino art. That you first put your milk on, then put your coffee, and then add it. - Oh yeah, okay. And you sometimes make a drawing? - I try that every day. I put it on my milk, because I don't always drink full milk because it's not so good for my health. But my halwa sometimes works as well. - Okay, did you make a drawing today? - Not this morning, because I have to sweat a lot. I like to lie down with my socks on. - Why do you have to stand up like that? - Now I had to wake up at 7.15 and I had to start at 8.30. So if I really have to stand up in the clothes, then I have to put them in and pull them out. And usually I eat here. But it depends on what time. Some days I wake up at 6 and then I take them out for a meal. - Okay, and to start at 9.30, is that a normal start time for you? - Yes, I actually think it's fun. Then you also have something for you in the evening. Do you have people who want to start flexibly? That's also a luxury, but then you also have to work late at night. And now that it's getting dark so fast, it's still fun. But in the evening I have to be able to walk outside. - Yes, yes, yes. You already talked about walking. Is that just to relax a bit? Or is it really competitive that you're going to walk? - I'm a competitive beast, to put it bluntly. But I've been walking in competitions before. I walked 16 km in Las Palmas last time and in Antwerp. But now I'm just trying to lie down on my head and have fun. When the sun is shining, I think it's sad to just be outside. - Okay, good. Las Palmas, was that a holiday? - No, I've been to Parasmus for almost ten months. Because I studied Spanish a bit, I was training there. And to drink Surfencofis. - And was that a nice experience? - Super cool, really to ride on Parasmus, absolutely. It was very fun. - And do you sometimes talk to the students of the Parasmus? - There is a friend of mine who has come from Switzerland. Just before Corona and then Corona broke out. And now we have to get that contact back. Because it's been two years since I've seen you. - Okay, okay. I had asked you if you knew a nice little bit about coffee. - Right. - So I've already made an attitude, because it's also still technical. But you actually have two-cylinder large coffee varieties. So Arabica and Robusta. And Arabica actually grows at 800 meters and plus. So it has a very low temperature, mostly on the mountains. Robusta is mostly below 800 meters. And what is the big difference between the two? It depends on the caffeine that there is. So in Arabica, it is less than in Robusta. What we are drinking is Arabica, trust me. So Arabica has less caffeine, why? Because the higher and higher the mountain, the lower the temperature. The less diseases there will be, the less parasites and so on. So the plant has to fight less against these things. Which means it actually has less caffeine. The lower the mountain, the higher the temperature, the more diseases. The more that it has to fight. And actually caffeine is a component that ensures that these diseases will have a kind of inflammation. Which means that more caffeine contains Robusta. And the difference in caffeine is almost Robusta, but it's actually Arabica. It contains half of the Robusta coffee in caffeine. - Okay, yes. - I know, Shama. - Interesting, I know. And do you especially sell Arabica? - Actually both. Arabica mostly has melons, with Arabica and Robusta together. And Robusta is actually a punishment coffee, and it also falls harder on the stomach. So if you drink a cup, most people will have to go to the toilet. Because it contains a lot of caffeine. - Yes, okay. - But we actually sell both. - Both, yes. Okay, and that depends on what the customer asks, what the needs are. - Actually, we are never going to give a price, we still have a machine and a coffee, we ask what your needs are earlier. And then there goes the most expensive place, or someone comes here. And then we do a kind of coffee tasting, so first we're going to ask how many you are, what you just need, and then we're going to try his coffee. And based on what we find the most delicious, we're going to offer it. - Yes, okay, okay. - So the customer's needs are real, and it's very price-related. - Yes, and do you drink both? - I drink both. - Yes, yeah, thank you. - How much better? - Yes, in the Robusta there is more caffeine. Imagine you drink that in the afternoon, can you still sleep well? - Okay, I actually don't think there's a problem. No, I had high school when I was studying and then I drank very late at night, then I was a little bit weaker, but now I don't drink that much. - Yes, no problem at all. - No, no. - Good, okay, yes, thank you for the knowledge. We already talked a bit about your job, but what do you think is so nice about your job? - I actually think, yes, I think marketing is super cool, and I also get a lot of freedom from my base to wear it myself, so I really like that I never looked for it, you know, you're going to see it. And that there are always new challenges in a KMO. Sometimes I think that you, for example, with Corona we really had to play on OK, what do you do in the market today, how are we going to solve it, so very briefly, and I think that's very nice, my job today, yes. - Okay, yes, and would you also like to work in a very big company? - That's a good question, I used to work in a very big company, and then I noticed that you are more and more a number, and that was sort of 9 to 5, and you go with it, because I took the train at that time, and that was really like that morning with all that mass at work, and that was really like that morning at home, so I thought it was a little less fun, that's why I also started working at a KMO. I also did an open solicitation, so they didn't look for anyone here, but I'm happy that I work in a small company, then you get more heard, and then I think you can also make more choices and have effects on things, yes. - Is he open solicitation? Are you really looking specifically for a certain company, and so on, what are you looking for then? - Yes, I actually want to combine my passions, so the marketing, coffee, and then connect those threads there a bit, and then I'm really, in a way, going into things, like sending messages to companies in Belgium, and coming to such a small site, and there was the idea of ​​coffee, and yes, "coffee" says the word itself, "coffee delivery", so I was going to click on it, and then I actually noticed that the marketing can still improve a lot, and actually from that input, I then went to solicitation, and then sent a message, then I had to talk to them, and then a few months later I had a job, so I really liked it. - Okay, great, yes. Is it Luscio website? - No idea about which website it was. I think it was because we won a prize, and that there was a website like that of prizes, and then really a whole solicitation, so that was quite technical, with which I thought it might be Luscio. - Okay, if there are other people who think, "Coffee, that's really a passion, are you still looking for people here?" - Absolutely, we are still looking for a technical support manager, so someone who can actually take over our technical service within six months, that he actually has three people in charge of our technical service. - Okay, and what does that mean? - It means that the people who are planning to do that, the country, the words are on the phone, we also need a machine key, so it's pretty much a technical training. And before that, there's a lot of good things to learn, that's the most important thing. - Okay, and are there also nice colleagues here? - Absolutely, no, that's true, we don't have a lot of connections here, and I like to come to Artwerak, so... - Yes, okay, and the coffee is also nice, so that's nice. - Of course, yes, and a coffee company. One of the basis for the rest. - What kind of coffee do we drink now? - We drink Fertreit bio, so yes, sustainable coffee, I have to say. And the bio is quite soft, so it fits very well with milk. - Okay, and where do the coffee beans come from? - From both Colombia, Bolivia, and I think also from Peru. - Oh yes, okay, yes. And are these the typical countries that eat Fertreit, beans, milk? - For Fertreit, I don't have to speak out, I think that's already done in different countries, but we actually work together with Fertreit Original, so that's a brand, actually a Dutch brand. And IDCoffee has taken over the Belgian department, which means that we are part of the B2B Fertreit Coffee. So with that, we're going to drink from that today. - Okay, great. Stel, I have a company and I want a coffee machine, what are the options? - For a company, we can be a little more expensive and more qualitative. The Jura is very good, we sell that, or we sell it. Jura's Riavendor, Riavendor's, that's something very big. So then you have cacao, then you have tea, then you have soups, then you have vanilla, but that's already a very big machine. So if you have a customer, I would go for a Jura, that's also a nice design. - Yes, and how is the coffee then made? - It depends on whether you have beans or coffee machines, so we call it espresso or instant. We actually recommend beans, it's a little bit more, so it's also a little better. But if you have more people, you sometimes want to reduce your costs, so then coffee is a better option, depending on how much budget you have. - Okay, if you go around in business, are there some complaints about the quality of coffee? Is that because, for example, you don't know, you don't use instant coffee or powder? - That depends on whether it's very often in vending machines, or other kinds of machines that they actually give very little coffee per cup, because the people, maybe, or because the company doesn't have much investment in coffee, but our business is always ahead. The coffee that you actually offer is a sign of respect for your people, so the more delicious the coffee, the more respect you make. And the coffee that we sell, we really like to take away as much as possible, so then you also have a delicious coffee. - Yes, okay, yes. So if someone sees that it is a machine via you, then it is normally seen as a good coffee. - Yes, that must be for sure, and if that is not the case, they must call, and then we directly send it to the technician. It can always be that something is wrong or something, but usually we send it directly to the technician. - Okay, okay. Do you have a lot of contact with customers? - I sit here four days a week at a office, and when I take the phone, I also take it off. So I do hear the customer, but I don't really have a lot of customer contact, because I'm a bit of an island on the field, actually, in marketing, that I work out more things, and at the end of the day I go to the customer and call more often, but less than my colleagues do. - Okay, yes, I did see something like this, something like "Idea Coffee Mornings". - Ah yes, that's something, but that's actually more like a combination of customer and prospect. I will show you a very short concept, so those are sustainable network sessions for business leaders or for people who are interested. And there we always have an event, we're going to get around a sustainable topic, and we always have a partner and a neutral guest speaker. And they choose the theme, and then we're going to bring half of the prospects and half of us. That's how the concept is today. And the next edition is on October 20th, and that's with Bereda Emo Consult. And then we're going to see how people can invest in sustainability in immobilia. So that's actually a very broad topic, but with always having a sustainable character, and we also see a great fight with the hash between guests. So it's also fair, so we're going to work with local people here to offer a little bit. - Okay, and can everyone agree on that? - Yes, absolutely. That's what I said on our website, at the services page, and there's an event, and there people can sign in. - Okay. - That's certainly welcome. - And that goes through here? - Yes, that's what I said in the coffee experience room, where we've been just now. That's where it all goes through. - Okay, and here's where people can sign in. Okay, I still had a few questions about coffee itself, because I'm very curious. - Do you use tap water to set up coffee, yes or no? - I also use tap water, but I have a filter in my coffee machine. So actually, that's what I would say, that it filters, that's the best solution. - Yes, okay, yes. - But we could just use tap water, which is also sustainable. - Yes, because water from a bottle at the same time is maybe less sustainable. - Yes, but I also use tap water to set up water, so in view of that, if you still have enough tap water and you have a filter, that's perfect. - Yes, okay, okay, good. Do you sometimes steal coffee? - Do you have to ask my colleague? I think sometimes, especially when I drink cappuccino, I can really enjoy it, but here in the world, I don't drink it often, so maybe I'll do that at home sometimes. - Okay, good. - Yes, but that's okay for you, yes, okay. - Absolutely, yes, not too loud, but... - We already talked about the cups, can you explain a little bit more, which cups all fit in with coffee or what kind of cups do you sell? - Wow, that's a lot of money, we sell different brands, from Lotus to Jules de Straup and so on. Now, I prefer, if I can give my opinion, in a coffee bar, so that it is self-made. I think that gives such an extra touch, so I'll choose that anyway, but the other choice is that we sell it and it's also super delicious. And on the other hand, you can't imagine that they're going to start baking themselves. - Exactly, and is that to just eat like that and then to drink? Or are you going to put that in the coffee? - I'm going to put that in sometimes. - And if we put it away a bit, then it would be like, oh, shit. - Okay, but always delicious. Is there something that you sell the most, or sell the most, like machine, like coffee itself, like cookies? - Now, actually, 40% of our coffee is sold further, so if we're in a sphere, we're going to try to increase it to 25%, not to 60%. So even if it's coffee, milk, we have a bit of different things in our range, like your phone, other brands. Now, while we're trying, we're a sustainable coffee company, so we always try to increase our range. And so we're going to try to create some options that our clientele will be pushed into a certain direction. So that's what we want in the future, but we're also very customer-oriented, so sometimes it's also difficult to find a good balance. - Yes, and it's 60% spread, and the other 40% you're going to also look at, like, okay, maybe it's not spread, but it's more sustainable. - Yes, we then try to buy brands that are, for example, B Corp, even though it doesn't have the best name. And we also have our own idea-coffee-mellanges that we sell. And in the future, but that's a bit of a further future, we also want to set up an idea-coffee with one coffee farmer, that we really have a one-on-one relationship and that then is a sort of community coffee. That then can also have a distance label, but that we actually, yes, are going to deliver something and have a very short contact, so short meals, which means that we also have to pay a bit of distance, to answer your question about margins and so on, that we ourselves have in hand about how much is now effectively going to the coffee farmer, that we can control that more. - Yes, yes, okay, yes. And if I buy you a further range of coffee, then I'm sure that it's all in order. - Yes, that's because we actually work with Fertit Original, and that's the VZ2, so it's actually possible to offer no profit, which means that they really are fair prices and that farmers not only give a basic income, but also a supplement, that they also, for example, have enough money for a pension, or that they can buy new products to make it better, because with the balance of the land, they have to build something in plantations higher, and that they actually have the means to do that, so to give an extra. - Yes, and are you going to, or someone from the company, sometimes by the coffee farmers? - Yes, that was just before Corona, so I wasn't there yet. But then they went to Colombia, and then they went to visit the farmers, then they looked at the plantations, with those people who were in Spain, because they didn't like it, but then they're really going to take a look, okay, everything is going well here, and then we can go back a few years further. And we also trust Fertit, of course, that they are honest about everything that they communicate. - Okay, and now that may not be just your personal opinion, but when I go to the supermarket and I see a logo of Fertit on a coffee stand, am I safe? - Normally you are, because it also has to meet different standards. Now I'm also a skeptic, so I'm also going to take a look at how it is now, because the certain brands, but that's not so much Fertit, but when they say we are constantly working on it, they always look at if that's right, and they are going to do their own research, because that's also often marketing, that they are going to communicate and simply put a positive focus on what they want to do, but sometimes there are also things that they are not going to do, so that you can probably still buy a certain product, so I always do it, but I trust Fertit, but just if you are going to make a choice based on brand, then I would take a look at it and research. - Yes, yes, definitely. - And Fertit is then also something very broad, probably, so as honest, sustainable, climate friendly, is that all in there? - That covers as many aspects as possible. - Now Fertit Original, that is actually, so you have the Fertit label, Fertit Belgium, and you have Fertit Original, they are actually two different things, Fertit Belgium, that's what we see on the bananas, or also on some coffees, while Fertit Original is a brand that is actually a VZ2, and they are mainly going on, they also have other products, but I think that we mainly focus on coffee in Belgium, in the Albert Heim, for example, you also have a lot of their products, like eating, and so on. There are two different things, and people are still surprised. - Yes, yes, yes, and now we talked about coffee, but when you go shopping, you go shopping with all the products, like on the earphone, or are you also going to buy bioproducts? - Yes, I try as much bioproducts as possible, with vegetables and fruits, and in other products, I also often get to the back, to see the product, to see where it comes from. I'm not going to buy bioproducts all season, so I'm not going to buy them in winter, or something like that. And actually yesterday, a colleague came to me, he said that there is apparently a farmer who really offers packages based on the year, and that you buy a kind of subscription, that's something that I'm interested in, I'm going to see it on his website, and so on. But then you actually deliver the farmers that deliver super hard work, and they actually make a good price, then I rather support them, and I give them a lot more than always going to the supermarket to pump money. But that's something very personal. - Yes, of course, of course. And what kind of diets are the things you choose not to eat? - Yes, I actually, because you just said it from the series, I have seen cow spirits, and since then I've never really eaten a lot of meat. So today I don't eat meat and fish, that's also a conscious choice, both for the sustainability and actually for the animals, because I'm a very big animal friend, I have a lot of animals for myself later on. So yes, I don't eat any animals or meat, and I also try to eat very healthy, so I'm still working on it, because I think that they always say a healthy person in a healthy body, but I try to work on it in the hands so that I can be 100 years old. - Yes, do you want to be 100 years old? - I still have a lot of plans, I'm going to have to. - Okay, okay, and do you cook yourself? - Yes, I like to go to the supermarket very much, and I also like to cook very much myself. I never try to make that kind of food, only to buy it for packed meals, also because there's a lot of sugar in it, people think, oh my, vegetarian brand, that's something very good, but there's a lot for proud sugars, so if you can make it yourself, it's always better. - Yes, yes, what are you going to eat tonight? - Oh, maybe sweets or something easy, because I think I have a lot of work, so ... - Okay, sorry, ma'am. - No, no. - Okay, okay, and once you go to a restaurant, do you still do that? - Yes, absolutely, I really like that, I also think it's a great moment to be able to put your food on the table. And there are a lot of veggie and vegan options, so there's no problem at all. - Yes, yes, okay, yes, and if there's something on the map that you always take, what would that be? - Vegetarian salad. I'm not going to think about that anymore. - Okay, yes, yes, and you make that yourself? - Yes, I make that myself too, but my recipe is for three hours, so I always have time. - Yes, yes, okay, okay. Okay, I feel that soon, or that there are plunders at coffee shops, like for example with that mager milk, are there, because now I think I'm going to eat pineapple on a pizza, is that okay or not? - Yes, I think that's okay, I know that people are talking a lot about it, I still like that, but I'm not going to order it myself either. - Is it that you don't like it? - Yes, is it that I don't like it? I'm not that ahead of Koreans or a very full-fledged person, but after that I really want almost everything. I'm a very easy eater, except for the veggie story. - Yes, yes, of course. - And is it even difficult for some friends, family, acquaintances? - Actually, I think that's a lot better, because I think I wanted to become vegetarian five years ago, but I'm still at home, and my mom always says, "Because of so many months, Leni still has something to eat, so actually I have been cooking vegetarian for five years already." But because of so much time, it was just like, "Come on, I'll just do it again." And then I had a good conversation with her, and she said, "Come on, I want to do it again and again, and now I get it, and now it's vegetarian with me." So it's actually a question of, if you think about it and listen to it again, why people do it, then your perception of it will sometimes change. - Yes, yes, okay. And can you talk about it in such a heavy debate? - No, I think it's a personal choice. And actually, I sometimes think, "Oh, have you ever had a bite of a piece of meat, or did you eat something after that?" Those are those little pieces, but I don't do that anyway. First of all, because I think that once you start, you'll feel very guilty about it. And after that, I try to pay attention to people who might have either eaten meat or meat. So I do believe that everyone can make a difference. - Maybe that's also super positive, or you call it dramatic. But yes, I try to bring people into it. - Okay, now we're talking about sustainable bio and so forth. Sometimes, maybe most costs, maybe a little more. I mean, it can happen. It's also a financial difficult period for many people. Is it possible to buy a very honest and sustainable coffee, but also just food? - Yes, of course, it always depends on the cost. That's something very exciting. That for something unhealthy and not sustainable, always pay much less. What helps me is, for example, to say at the beginning of the week, "Okay, I'm going to make it all, I don't have to throw it away anymore." Then you win, as they say, and you can put money in the other products. So I see it a bit of a division. But if we continue that, for example, to material things, to clothes or furniture, I think my character is very nice. So I'm also not bad at buying a second-hand one. If there is a good quality to that product. And for the rest of the year, as I said, if you're going to buy and eat, you're going to save a lot of money there. - Yes, okay. - And is that, for you guys at IdeeCoffeeSystems, is sustainable coffee more expensive than the others? - Yes, it depends on the price. Because you pay the farmers that supplement, plus the further the label. Yes, that costs mostly more. I can't always say that, but I think it's mostly more expensive. We think that we pay a lot for a cup of coffee. But if people know how much time and energy there is in that product, then it's really not much. So that's a product that's actually the most appreciated in value. - Yes, okay. And do you also see that you're selling more and more? You're going to go over 60% and the next customer is also effective? - Well, I've taken off a sustainability survey with 20 customers. And I often asked them why don't you have any quality coffee that you take off? And that was very often related to the quality or the taste. That's what they said, at that moment we thought that coffee was better. But actually we notice that customers are really ready to buy sustainability. Why also? That is partly because of their own business value. So it's hard to say, we are a sustainable company. Then they can work better with, for example, a sustainable coffee machine, a second-hand machine. With that quality coffee, then it's already a vinkia. If you can put it next to your coffee corner, to put it. And also in other products we do notice that customers are really looking forward to it. So it is, they are also going to have to do sustainability with all the companies, but it's starting to come up, so it's a good evolution. - Yes, that's good, yes, OK. And that's for companies, are you also working on that privately? Are there people who already ask advice, ask tips for sustainability, for coffee and so on? - Oh yes, that's more and more with the previous podcast that I took off. But of course I'm also not an expert. I just try to adapt to a few things on a daily basis. And like what I had to do, those are those little things. I will also give advice to my Peter, for example, about how to plant that again. But once you know that, it's that easy and yes, that's good for the soil. You don't have to rely on it to decide something. So you can actually adapt to a lot of areas, even more sustainable options. - Yes, yes, yes, OK, yes. And in terms of sustainability, how far are you going as a company? And do you also go privately, for example, to the cars? If you're going to travel, do you look at the corner there? - Yes, also in terms of business, we will certainly inform there. Ali, they have now bought cars along the way, also sustainable, for example. Privately, I still take the plane, so I'm not going to lie down. For example, I have been with my sister for three weeks now in Vietnam. So it's very difficult to always do that. But I'm definitely going to do that. And I'm going to try as much as I can to make choices, but that's not always possible. So personally, that's also what works for me. But I think if everyone does the basics, then we'll have a lot of progress. - Yes, yes, OK, yes. And what are you all going to do in Vietnam? - We're also going to work part-time, so it's a bit of a work-cation, so to speak. But we're going to stay in Hanoi for the first week anyway, so that's really the main thing. And then to Sapa, I want to visit coffee plantations there. So there's also a coffee shop over there. - Yes, and when they say to work, is that at home, so to speak? - Yes, at work, actually. That's the first time, I think, that someone does that in business. But I have a very flexible position, so to speak, but of course you can do it everywhere. And yes, I also said that I'm going to do some research there, so to speak. For example, about the coffee, or if I have a blog article in my free time, so it's not like I'm going to say that for a long time, right? - No, no, no, no. - Okay, have you also made other fun trips before? - I went to Aarchenia with a friend of mine. It was also super, super fun. Also seriously, eyes open, drawn to me. Because you always think that there's a color of my bed show and Aarchenia is far away, but actually, you're there for practically 12 hours. And when you see that, a big difference is those countries and then the western world. That's really the point, because I was there only two and a half weeks and I really came back a little shocked about what we see here and complain about and those people have nothing and they laugh. So yes, I did draw good lessons there and I think you can go through that as a person who changes. - Yes, so I would have to do such a trip every time to realise how good it is here. - Yes, definitely. And do you still have big dreams of traveling? - Big dreams of traveling. Vietnam was a big one and I also went to New York last year, so I have been able to experience all the very beautiful things, so I'm happy now in that area. - You still have time to think about it. - Yes. - Okay, I also asked you what your favorite word is from the Netherlands. What are your favorite words? You can give me more. - Yes, I found it very difficult to choose one, so I have two. The first is passion, because I am a passionate person and I also like it when people find their passion in their lives, in their job, in their family, especially a little bit. So as I said, for me, marketing and coffee, and I can do that daily, so I am very happy about that. And the second word is sun-glued, which is maybe a bit more special. But because I can enjoy such a change very much, where you feel the sun on your face, and you just go for it, and that is, for me, enjoying it purely. And that's something very small, it costs you money, and that's just free. And then I also always start to philosophize, because we are here on earth and the sun is up so far, and you feel it so intense, so that's why I think it's beautiful. - But you still choose the rainy day. - Yes, the passion is still above the sun. Okay, but nice choices. Do you have any tips or other things you would like to share with the listeners? - That's a very good question. - Do you have a nice picture of the year and the business of your coffee systems? I think so. A tip. I try to be the happiest myself, or the words of the little things in life. And there are now very difficult times for everyone, the winters even for the door, a bit of an economic crisis. But sometimes we just try to be happy with the little things that we have, that we can wake up every day, and that you still have a job where you can go and eat, so trying to be happy with the little things. - Okay, those are very nice words to end. Thank you very much for your time and for this nice conversation. - You too, thank you.