Duggar Curse? Scandals Rock TV Famous Family

Josh Duggar is on the move, but not to be released. Not only was his motion to overturn his child porn conviction denied, but he's been relocated to a special facility that also plays home to Joe Exotic. This is Scandal, presented by Law & Crime. I'm Sierra Gillespie. We just can't stop talking about the Duggars. I mean, whether it's Joseph Duggar begging to be in contact with his kids while facing charges from two separate states, including sex crime charges. There's also his older brother, Josh Duggar, who is still making headlines. And the newest update is that Josh Duggar will not be released early. In fact, his motion to do so was denied, and he's now been moved to a special facility. And we're going to hear all about it with today's interview guest. It's prison consultant Justin Paperni, who actually spent time behind bars, but first, let's give you the backstory. Today's Scandal takes us to Texas, current home of Josh Duggar. Now, by now, you're kind of familiar with the Duggar family, right? They rose to fame on the hit TLC show 17 Kids and Counting, that later turned to 18 Kids and Counting, and finally, 19 Kids and Counting. And if you can believe it, the show was about their giant family. Parents Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and their 19 kids, all whose names start with the letter J, by the way. So the show ran for 10 seasons, with more than 250 episodes. And if you're wondering why it got canceled, well, the oldest brother, Josh Duggar, is really to blame for that. In 2015, he found himself part of a scandal when the Ashley Madison leak happened. Now, Ashley Madison was a website where married couples found other people to have affairs with. At the time of the leak, Josh Duggar was already married to his wife, Anna, and they had multiple kids. So the TLC show was canceled after that, but the darkness surrounding, Josh Duggar, and his wife, Anna, just continued. In the years following, it came to light that he allegedly sexually assaulted five underage girls when he himself was a child between the ages of 14 and 15. One of these survivors was a family friend, and the others were four of his sisters. They've been outspoken about it, too, and publicly identified as Jill, Ginger, Jessa, and Joyanna Duggar. Now, if all those allegations aren't disturbing enough, there are also reports that Michelle and Jim Bob his parents knew about all of this and didn't report it to law enforcement. Instead, they allegedly just sent Josh away to a family friend's home. He also had in-house counseling through their church. And I have to note, while all of this is really disturbing, it's just a bunch of allegations. Josh Duggar is serving time now, but not for these alleged crimes. In 2021, he was arrested on two federal charges for possessing and receiving child pornography, for which he was later convicted. On May 25th, 2020, he was sentenced to 151 months, or 12 and a half years, in federal prison. Now, earlier this month, I reported on the explicit texts he sent his wife, Anna, that same month, writing things like, quote, I can't wait till we can be alone again. I miss all of you. What specifically, spelled wrong, are you thinking, dreaming, fantasizing about today that you miss? I miss you and me being us. Tell me later, emoji. He also wrote, I miss you, my lover. I miss being in love. I miss being in the shower with you scrubbing. I miss watching you try on clothes. I miss watching you be sexy. As is clearly stated there, Josh Duggar is itching to get out of prison, but that's not happening anytime soon. In fact, his motion to have his conviction vacated was denied. Josh's team argued that his constitutional rights had been violated, specifically the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. So according to Josh's team, there was some critical evidence at the trial he wasn't allowed to present, and it could have led a jury to some reasonable doubt. And maybe, the argument was compelling. But according to U.S. District Judge Timothy L. Brooks, that doesn't matter, because the motion was late, far past the deadline. People Magazine reports the appeal was received by the U.S. Attorney's Office on July 29th, 2025, more than a month after the deadline. And on top of that, a copy of the appeal didn't get to the court until a full month later. Now, Josh Duggar blamed the prison mailbox rule that makes deadlines a bit more flexible as long as the documents were in the mailbox. So, Josh Duggar is asking the court to believe something akin to a magic bullet theory, a sequential chain of events that defies common sense. Collectively, this chain of events where Murphy's Law was lurking at every turn is simply not credible. So, Josh Duggar isn't getting out of prison, but he has been in prison for a number of years. And he's in prison for a number of years. And he has been in prison for a number of years. And he's been in prison for a number of years. what are they doing? They're studying his routine. They're studying his adjustment. I doubt he has access to email because of his conviction, but they can certainly read his letters. They can certainly listen to his phone calls. And a counselor might have made a decision. He's at risk. He needs closer monitoring. The highest value for us is security of the institution. We don't want any lawsuits, people getting hurt or injured. So if it's about security, even if it's not always in the prisoner's best interest, they can say we're going to move him to a little higher security to get more monitoring for a while. Okay, so I'm kind of reading between the lines here in that there could be a couple of factors going on. One, you mentioned, okay, the reality of this more than a decade-long sentence could be setting in. Maybe he, you know, we've seen other prisoners who's been on suicide watch, for example. So it could be the mental health thing. Or the other thing you said, too, security. I mean, tell me if this is wrong. Because out on, we always say the people inside prison, they really don't like people who are convicted of sex crimes, especially against children. He is a child. He's a child pornography to federal child pornography convictions. Is that part of it, that he might be at risk in that sense? By now, he's adjusted in the prison. And if you're convicted of a sex offense, there's a handful of prisons across the country where they may send a sex offender. Siegelville, Elkton. So that isn't a concern at this point because they tend to stay together. And even in a low-security prison where you have a release date of 20 years or less, you're not going to see the violence that you would in a higher-security prison. Because if something were to happen, you go to the hole. You get transferred. You lose good time. You lose credits. And you end up in a medium-year penitentiary. So I believe that he's been in prison for a while. Clearly, he's avoided problems like getting beat up. I just think in this instance, given the loss and the reality that it's going to be here for a while, they could have deduced he just needs more monitoring. Maybe he is on medications. I'm not a doctor here. I don't know. But maybe the medications he needs, they are unable to give him inside of that low-security prison. Suicide watch. They're not in a position to do that in a low-security. In a low-security prison, I'm not saying he is on suicide watch. But these are some of the reasons that a prisoner could go to an FMC. It's not just because they need a wheelchair. There are better mental health treatment analysis inside of an FMC. And I suspect, even though you'll never hear it from the BOP, that's why he ended up there. He needs more supervision. And, you know, a lot of us know what prison is like based on TV shows, like Orange is the New Black, for example. That's what I'm thinking of when I think of prison. And I just remember in the show, them always. You know, struggling for resources. And so I'm wondering, how are the resources in a place like this? If this is somebody who has a mental health issue, which, again, we don't have confirmed, but we're speculating, that might be what it is. Would this actually be a good place to have some sort of treatment? Look, it's not great. Okay. This isn't John Hopkins here, and you're part of the country. Okay. But it's better than you would get in a minimum security camp where I serve time, where it's kind of the stepchild of the prison system. Very little resources. There's more resources in a low-security prison. But it doesn't change. In that low, there could be 1,500 or 2,000 people there. So you're not going to get the resources you need. Indeed, one of the biggest issues people have in prison and what they need to advocate for is getting their medications, getting their treatment. It's a problem. So at the FMC, there's going to be more access to medications. Doctors, nurses, more times to go to pill call. A lot of these prisons, pill call may just be morning and in the evening. Well, in a medical prison where people are sick and unfortunately dying of cancer and they're very old and ill, there's continuity. There's continuous treatment. So it's better than you're going to find in a camp or a low, but it's still nothing like being in the community and being able to go see your doctor. And the government would say, if you were so concerned about that, you shouldn't have broken the law. This is what you got. Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, I'm glad that we do have some resources, but at the same time, it does sound kind of bleak. And something you mentioned, too, is patients or inmates, rather, who have cancer. And an example in this is Joe Exotic. He has been diagnosed with cancer, so he's now in the same prison here that Josh Duggar has just been transferred to. And that kind of gets me thinking, because being an inmate is one thing, but then being a celebrity or a high profile one that people could have seen 19 kids and counting, they could have seen Tiger King, they could have seen whatever. I mean, does that get an extra turn of the head when these new inmates will see Josh Duggar suddenly roaming the halls? Well, I think the Joe person you mentioned is different. Yeah. He's likable, actually. The guys like him from they just find him unique and kind of quirky. He's different, you know, he's looked at differently than Duggar because of his because of his conviction. There's no doubt about that. When you go to prison as a celebrity, more eyes are on you. Some people care, some do not. I would encourage any celebrity or high profile person, and we've helped many to really study your environment. Don't give unsolicited advice. Understand the unwritten and written rules of the institution. Many people try to manipulate the system of correction. Before they understand it, iPhones, getting into disciplinary infractions, saying things they shouldn't, not doing their job, getting involved in the prison hustle, like paying people to do your job, clean your sheets and things of that. So more eyes are on a high profile people or person. So you really have to lay low, study, be humble, do things that they might not expect you to do because you have resources. But in time, they forget about you. You get involved in your own routine and you move on to the next person. So some people in prison who are high profile have had problems. But it's only. Because they've responded so, so poorly. But that person you mentioned, some of the guys like in there in prison. Yeah, Joe Exotic. I mean, I think he like helped us all through COVID in a way. Everyone was obsessed with Tiger King at the time because he's so out there that it really captured the attention of a lot of people. So I think you're right. His situation is a little bit different than the child pornography convictions that Josh Duggar has. And again, going back to all of this, we're just speculating. We're thinking maybe it's a mental health situation. But I think it's a mental health situation. And I think it's a mental health situation. Just getting transferred, what that process would be like, the intake at a new facility. And I mean, I kind of make it akin to going to a new school, being the new kid on the block. Like, that's scary. Everyone knows each other. They already have their groups. They already have their friends. They know the routine. I mean, what is that like transferring? The transfer process is very difficult because you're in shackles and chains. You may go through Victorville or Oklahoma, Con Air, as they call it, transit. So it's a very difficult experience. It will test even people who have the strongest will or resolve. You're also in with all types of prisoners while going through transit. Murders, rapists, they don't separate. You're a minimum security prisoner or a low security prison. So it's very difficult getting there and exhausting. People in our community have said, I don't know if it was morning or night. I'm showering two or three times a week, going to the bathroom in front of 40 men, showering in front of 50 men. So oftentimes, once they get to the final institution, they're happy because at least they can walk the track or go outside and appreciate the blue sunset. So certainly he'll feel better. He felt better once he got there. But in a FMC, they don't separate out prisoners, right? So even in a low security prison, people convicted of sex offenses, people have 20 years or less. In a camp, it's 10 years or less. It's very jarring for someone serving an 18-month sentence who should be in a camp going to the FMC where you are around all sorts of prisoners. So that's an adjustment for him. Now, I've also heard, even though some people in the FMC are in for murder and terrible, awful crimes, many of them are sick and older and have phased out of crime. But it's a fundamentally different experience in that FMC than it is the low security prison. And it could be more shock and awe for him, the reality that he's going to be there for a while. And he might want to put up an argument or advocate for himself on why he should go back to the low security prison, where I can tell you he had his job, he had his bunk, he had his routine, he had his friends and his programming, like you said, going to a new school. It's a full new adjustment kind of starting over at the bottom. Yeah, and I mean, we've talked about this. The fact that his motion was just completely denied. The judge said, no, you missed the deadline. No way. It's not happening. Maybe the reality is finally setting in that he was holding out hope. I mean, I know we've talked about this in many other cases where if there is some sort of conviction, there are multiple appeals or motions or attempts to overturn. Do you think for him that he's going to keep trying or he's just completely defeated? He's not going to. He's he should continue to try. We encourage any prisoner to try. It might not be through an appeal or having the conviction thrown out. You try the old fashioned way. You know what it is? It's just called old fashioned hard work. You get a pen and paper. You write a letter to your victims, to your community. You write a biography, a journal entry. I support Prison Professors Charity, a nonprofit. We do work in every BOP prison. Twelve and a half million words on the website. People in prison documenting their journey. He should be striving to. To earn freedom, not through an appeal that he isn't likely to win, but through a record he builds. What has he learned? What is he doing in prison? What did he do last week? What will he do next week? What's the last book he read? Why did he read it? How will it help him moving forward? He should be sharing that progress with his judge, with his case manager, with his probation officer. Because if he doesn't do that time in prison, the highest value in so many of these prisons is boredom. It feels like for ever. And if he's not prepared to go home with this conviction and a reputation that's in the toilet, he may be free, but he's going to kind of still be in prison in some way. I read that only one of his siblings wrote a letter on his behalf. Don't they have like 18 or 19 kids? That's a problem. So his network is destroyed. So rather than fixate on getting out of prison, which isn't going to happen immediately, he should begin to do work that might not help him today or tomorrow, but it might help him in three years, in five years, in seven years. And when he begins to think that way, his time will be more productive and he'll get more people back into his corner. Yeah, because all of this is about reform. At the end of the day, he was convicted of something really terrible. the goal is for him to change and not go back and do that again i mean i think his release date as of right now is 2033 so he's got some time that he can move forward and make positive changes so i hope that's what's happening but i have to ask whenever i do a duggar story of course josh duggar is who i think of because he was the first person who was like arrested convicted there's been documentaries all of that but now there's another brother joseph duggar who faces and these are just allegations he's just been charged has not been convicted but he does face a child sex crimes charge out of florida and i know you talked about this too but i have to ask again for this brother if he was convicted and he's let's say i'm speculating because he has not been but if he is convicted he's put in prison let's say are things going to be rough for him if he's convicted of a child sex crime and he's a celebrity with a known last name i mean what would you expect there yes it's a it's a terrible crime even this joe person you mentioned i mean wasn't he convicted like attempted murder and people respect him more for that crime of attempting to kill someone yeah so it's it's a terrible crime the stigma follows there could be all eyes on him people could threaten him they could target him they want to see how he responds frequently people in prison are extorted they want to see what's called the papers which is your probation report to confirm the offense if you don't provide the papers you might have to check into segregation in the bop or bureau of prisons they don't have that so you spend time you know total segregation in the hole so it is an awful experience which is why he would have to somehow create a routine where he's away from as many problems as possible that might mean not going to the chow hall where there could be problems avoiding the television room at night where there can be a lot of gambling and spades and problems right you've got to create a scenario where you are removing as many possible problems as possible but it doesn't change that it's a prison around high volatile prisoners who don't want to be there and who might seek to exploit him not just because of his crime because they could be in the media and it brings attention to their life we would cover it people would cover it if something were to happen and that it could be a way for people to shake up the monotony of being in prison yeah there's a lot happening with the duggars i feel like we constantly have new updates about whatever's coming out with whether it be josh duggar or joseph duggar i mean a lot happening an interesting case to follow at the very least justin thank you for coming on scandal with us today and kind of talking about your experience my pleasure and that's where today's episode of scandal leaves us for now if you like what you saw and you want to see more or connect with me on social media you can find me on places like instagram at sierra gillespie thanks for watching today's episode of scandal as always i'm your host sierra gillespie and i'll see you next time