Drafting Our Favorite Championship Teams Since 2000!

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Every player brings something different to the field. Some have speed, some have power, some have their own podcast. It's true. That being said, no two players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Whether you're racing to climb the tallest mountains, seeing who can score more birdies on the green, or competing in a professional soccer match, it's always better when there's a prize on the line, especially if it's a Michelob Ultra. Smooth, refreshing, and worth all that hard work. Superior is worth playing for. Michelob Ultra, Superior Light Beer. Enter for a chance to win Superior soccer, basketball, and golf prizes at MichelobUltra.com slash Superior Access. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show is we are in the doldrums of pre-training camp NBA. We're starting a new tradition. Last year, Chris Ryan and I drafted our favorite teams from the last 20 years to not make the NBA Finals. This year, we're supersizing it. Chris is back, Joe House is here, and we're doing a draft of our favorite single-season NBA champions from 2000 until now. We're making 15 picks, so that means 12 of the 27 champions, champions eligible, are going to be omitted. We're going to rapid-fire through all these teams, why we picked them, why we didn't pick them. It's a really fun stroll down memory lane. I watched a lot of low-definition, grainy footage on YouTube of the 2003 Finals and the 2000 Finals and things like that. There's some controversial picks and non-picks. It's just a really good way to sort of look back and ahead at the same time. And then Sean Fantasy is here for an emergency mini-Mets corner. The ethics of giving a visiting player. A curtain call, which Pete Alonso, now a Baltimore Oriole, got at Citi Field. The day he hit his 300th home run. The day after I went to the game with my daughter, hoping to see him or Francisco Lindor hit their 300th home runs. The Mets lost all the games. Sean and I talk about the ethics of that sort of fandom. That's all coming up on the Zach Glow Show. Welcome to the Zach Glow Show. It's mid-September. There's nothing going on in the NBA now that the Clippers thing is done in Kauai. Maybe he's about to get an extension in Toronto. Chris Ryan is here and making his Zach Glow Show slash low post debut. Joe House, how you doing, guys? Let's go, Zach Glow. Unbelievable. First time in a long time right here, buddy. Has this trio ever potted together? We potted together. Just the three of us? Well, the three of us. This is definitely the first time. Yeah, that's what I thought. You guys haven't been on the watch together. So otherwise, I don't know where we'd be. I've never been on the watch, period. I see your Phillies, semi-Phillies hat there. Mets, Phillies. Maybe we can do you a favor today. So here's the genesis of this. There's nothing going on in the NBA. And around this time last year, Chris and I did a draft of our favorite teams from like the last 20 years or something, whatever, wherever we cut it off, to not make the NBA finals. And people loved it. It was a great nerd out. A great stroll down memory lane. And this year, we're stepping it up. Here's the draft we're going to do. Our favorite NBA champions, single-season NBA champions from 2000 until today. Favorite means whatever you want. We're only going to draft 15 of the 27 because we just don't have time. And also, it's going to make people mad when their teams are not drafted, which is going to be great. And we're going to go in snake order. House has been given by me the number one pick since his debut. CR, you asked to go second instead of third. So I will go third and then fourth. And there are 27 teams. And just for trivia's sake, of the 27, here's how they divide up. The Lakers have six of the 27, the Spurs and Warriors four each, the Heat three, the Celtics two, and then one apiece for Cleveland, Detroit, Oklahoma City, New York, Toronto, Dallas, Milwaukee, and Denver. Do we have any questions before we put house on the clock? I'm all good. I'm sure I'm going to get this wrong. So my only question is, is to beg for forgiveness. Again, only since 2000. Favorite can mean whatever you want. It could be your favorite player. It could be a favorite moment. It could be favorite games. It could be the difficulty of their path there. It could be whatever you want. So Joe House, you get to go first. The number one pick in our favorite NBA champions draft since 2000, which is loosely post-Jordan, is who? Yeah. So this is tough, right? Because you have to. You have to really dig down deep here. With great power comes great responsibility, fellas. And I have to tell you, I took a couple of tours through Pander Town. I really looked hard at this New York Knicks team. Boy, the circumstances surrounding their arrival in the finals. If you go back and look as those finals arrived, you know, they weren't a clear-cut favorite to just watch. They were a clear-cut favorite to just watch. It all came together. The chemistry was beautiful. And when you see a city like one of the great cities on Earth, everybody coming together, and it feels like it's possible. And then the individual games themselves with the Knicks and the Spurs were incredible games. Like, you know, truly epic kind of experiences living through them. Having said all of that, I'm not going to take the Knicks. No! I knew the bug was going to happen. I thought this was going to happen. I knew the bug was coming. The sort of clubhouse favorite to go number one, recency bias aside. Well, and that's right. So I just feel like an obligation as the senior contributor to this to come in with some old head perspective. And for me, that means the finalists are teams like the 2015 Warriors who won a championship for the first time in franchise history. The Spurs, I mean, the Pistons in 2004, an incredible team that took down the mighty Lakers. The House is putting his flag on all sorts of picks here, man. I'm just telling you how I consider this. I want everybody to understand the process that I'm going through. He's under a lot of pressure. This is a big, this is like, you know, you don't want a Durant-Odin distraft. This is a big pick for him. It's going to be hilarious to see the reactions now that I tell everybody that my favorite, my favorite is the 2011 Dallas Mavericks. It's not a crazy thing to say at all. That's a chalk pick, and I'll explain that later. But you go. It's your floor. Well, it was unexpected. It was. It was this Dallas team taking on the Heat, the Threadles, right? You know, how many wins is that Heat machine going to produce? And it showed the power of a team, right? It was Dirk Nowitzki finally getting his moment, having his moment. But, you know, the supporting cast, nobody going back when you look at it. Okay, Sean Marion, but that wasn't the height of Sean Marion's powers. But Tyson Chandler, was Tyson Chandler, you know, drafted super high. The expectations for him throughout his career were super high. Never really got met those expectations, but incredibly important to this team. J.J. Barea? Yeah, J.J. Barea. Very important player in this thing. And it was, to me, a reflection of what NBA basketball at its finest, a team that comes together, kind of not. expected to just roll through. I mean, I could have done a couple of the teams that you guys will touch on, who just rolled through the postseason and grabbed a title. But, no, I wanted to grab a team that was a true expression of what a team, to me, feels like in modern basketball. And, to me, that's that 2011 Dallas Mavericks. So, thank you, gentlemen. House, I like that you're trying to frame this as you could have gone and seen, a blockbuster in the theater, but instead, like, oh, a Francis Truffaut movie was playing from the French New Wave film in the 60s, and you went to see that instead. Mike Wargon, our producer, and Billy Gill, they will admit, I said before you guys came on, I'm going to predict that the first two picks in the draft are the 2011 Mavs and a team that shall not be named later. This would have been my number one pick if I had the number one pick. I think. I'm not quite sure. It's incredible. Wow. Like, it's a murderer's row of teams that they go through, Yes. including the two-time defending champion Lakers, a series that ends with Andrew Bynum nearly murdering J.J. Barea in midair. Barea then starts in the finals as a key swing piece. Jason Terry has the freaking tattoo of the Larry O'Brien trophy. The Heat are blowing the shit out of the Mavs in game two and talking all sorts of trash. Incredible Dallas comeback punctuated by a Dirk layup around Bosh, and Udonis Haslam is still pissed that he wasn't guarding Dirk. They beat the, they, like, hold off the thunder. Like, the last, like, okay, this team is coming, but we, with our veteran guile, we hell him off. And, like, Dirk leaving the floor because he is so overcome by emotion and the NBA staff having to drag him back out to accept the finals MVP award. all time. Great moment. Page has a game. Corey Brewer has a random game against the Lakers. Awesome team. They have the Brandon Roy game. Remember like Brandon Roy came back from the dead and had a monster first round game to tie that series at two. And everyone was like, the Mavs are going to choke. Oh my God. And they did not see our, any thoughts before we put you on the clock? You know what this series, this 2011 finals has such a warm place in my heart because I was, I remember during this finals, I went to our former Grantland colleague, Michael Weinrib's wedding, and it was out on Long Island. I think it was at Montauk or something like that. This was right as NBA Twitter is really getting going. This is right as NBA podcasts are really emerging. Obviously Bill had been potting for a while, but I remember listening to Bomani Jones. I think I had to download the MP3 and put it on my iPad, iPod. Listening to that on the LIRR slack jawed because there were like 19 storylines a game. Those guys making fun of Dirk coughing. That's right. I mean, Carlisle switching Terry into this like offensive hinge. It was unbelievable. Like for pure drama, it was unreal. And this is the American Airlines bowl. I think both, both stadiums were called American Airlines, but it was like every single day. It was, it was like waking up to read five chapters of a great book. And I remember this very fondly. Funnily enough, Zach, like going back through this list and I'll say this, this was an unpleasant experience for me as a Philadelphian. I do not like a lot of the teams who won NBA championships in the 21st century. But what I did like doing is realizing that I can remember where I was for almost every one of these. And now often it's just a bar. So it's not, that's like amazing of a, of a trip down memory lane. But I was like, I was at that bar in Brooklyn. I was at that bar in Brooklyn for this. I will tell you about, uh, probably my favorite. I'm going to go with this. I'm going to go with these guys as my favorite for, for, for my first pick though, the 2015, 16 caps, basically a two week long miracle on ice. Uh, and it, a real, like, how can you not be romantic about that? Basketball situation. And this was probably my favorite playoffs to follow and cover as a professional, uh, like basketball person or, you know, editor and writer and, and colleague. And I just, it looked much like the 2011 team, obviously warriors blow three, one lead, obviously Draymond getting suspended, Tyloo taking the guys to San Quentin to show them what real, real stress is about. Uh, I don't remember. That, that, that I, I completely forgot that. I don't even, I'm assuming that's true because you're saying it. I completely forgot that that happened. I believe it was like, he, he like as a day, like a day of, or an off day kind of activity, I believe he took them to San Quentin to be like, you guys, this isn't hard. What's hard is going to San Quentin. Um, and yeah, like LeBron game six, uh, just, just in general, like LeBron taking a team, even though they had Kyrie, even though they had Kevin love that felt, it was like for LeBron, he's such a superhero, but this one felt like his folk hero win. And knowing that it gave Cleveland a championship, it's up there with like the Cubs winning a championship, the Knicks winning a championship. It's just like guys who were like, I never thought I would see the day my grandfather, I'm thinking about him. He never saw a championship in Cleveland, et cetera. I just think it's, it's, it's just the most sort of romantic one out of all of these. I have an inner circle. Speaker 2 : Five teams that I think are, would have been my favorite favorites. And this was also one of them as was the 2011 Mavs. I mean, I was at every single one of the games. I remember vividly being at game four and I can picture exactly my angle from my seat to the court. And I was the warriors offense was coming my way at the, in the fourth quarter. And Steph and clay ran a bunch of pick and rolls. J.R. Smith got lost. Clay made a lot of threes and it just felt like, Oh, it's over. And then the rumblings began. I'm like, Hey, I think you need to watch this clip of Draymond. Like this could be something. He has all these flagrant points and the whole series turns. And then obviously I I've said this before game seven is the most intense sporting event I have ever been to in person. I felt like I was playing in the freaking game. You have the most iconic play of LeBron's career, the block on Andre with dollar after in game six, he blocks curry in Cleveland. It talks a whole lot of trash. Like this is still my league, man. That was like, that was like a big brother block on curry at the rim. There's a, there's a forgotten in game seven LeBron dunk over Draymond in like the last minute of the game where Draymond fouls him. And it's almost an and one. And if it had been an and one, I think the whole arena would have just exploded and we would never have had a 2018 NBA season. Just all time. Great. LeBron Kyrie Kyrie's got the shot. Kevin Love has the stop it's Cleveland. It's Jr. Smith without a shirt at the parade and the whole city going crazy. It's a great pick. It's a great pick house. Any, any thoughts or memories of this team? Well, well, I'm especially fond of, of this team and, and, um, this might have been my first, uh, selection, but I thought that I shouldn't be so petty about it. Um, this was the series where I was going on the bill Simmons podcast back then. I think it was still the BS report and cousin Sal was on. Speaker 2 : And I had announced before the series began that I liked the underdog Cavaliers and Simmons famously only to me had me on after, um, the, the warriors went up three games to one and he and cousin Sal dunked on me for like a solid, you know, 10 minute segment. And I just sat there and took it. Uh, obviously the whole thing changed. It flipped, um, around the, the dream on suspension, but still there were women games, had the games, had home court advantage. And you know, the, the, the, the 40 pieces that Kyrie and LeBron were dropping in game six and seven were just next level. And that's one of my all-time favorite gambling wins. So that that's very, very close to my heart that win right there. Speaker 1 : And also this was like, when now game seven is like a home court, like coin flip. This was B this was when game seven, like road teams did not win game sevens back then, even, even then. And they did. Speaker 2 : Only knock against this Cavs team is the east was a pile of shit and they didn't really have to try at all to get out of the story. And sadly enough, I actually think the best Cavs team of the LeBron era was the next season, 2017, when they were just like an unbelievable offensive team, completely scorched earth over the east. Um, and, uh, and they just ran into the Durant warriors who I'll be, I'll be curious to see if we drive 16, 16 Cavs teams. We can leave it here is, is obviously one of the great turning points. Speaker 1 : In NBA, modern NBA history because of what happens after they win and what the warriors do and what the rest of the league does to try and compensate and keep up and probably ushers in the like high, high volume superstar movement era. I would imagine if, if you want to look at it that way of assembling, like, you know, top heavy teams to try and compete right now. And the league's never been the same sense. Speaker 2 : Uh, you have left me. Now I get two picks at three and four, and you have left me with the team that I thought would go second, uh, that I told our producers, I think this will be the second team. And you have given me a team that is just, it's, it's almost central casting a team that I would love a team that became so dominant and so beautiful to watch that by game three and game four of the finals, the highly anticipated rematch finals. I just sat back and smiled and was like, this is over the 2014 San Antonio Spurs, the beautiful game, completely just passing the heat in circles, punctuated, by a Manu Ginobili dunk. Somehow he summons a dunk over Chris Bosch in game five it's revenge for the Ray Allen shot and the all-time gut punch Syrian finals loss probably, and maybe an NBA history in 2013. Uh, it's this kind of like championship Swan song for Tim Duncan at that level. Kawhi finals MVP, no player on their team. Tony Parker led the 2014 Spurs in scoring 17.3 points per game in the playoffs. He was the leading scorer of a final steam. Um, and I, my memory, I, I was at a bar for game six Spurs thunder the previous round. Uh, and the thunder had beaten the Spurs two years before in the playoffs, they were like too young, too athletic. They were the kryptonite to the beautiful game of the Spurs Spurs. When the first two games of this series with Serge Ibaka out, Serge Ibaka comes back, the thunder even it up at two, two. And I remember talking to coaches on the Spurs, staff and people around the Spurs on the phone. And I think I saw some of that series in person. I can't remember. And the urgency and borderline fear they felt both of Oklahoma city's like at, like, how are we this aging fundamentally sound team supposed to contain this explosive duo of Russ and, and, uh, and Durant. And not only that fear, but the, the understanding of like, if we don't beat them now, this might be the. Last shot for this team to win a title. Like that was the urgency was very palpable in the next two games. And in that series of like, we might not have another chance to avenge what happened to us last year, Corey Joseph, has a massive game in that game six. Cause Tony Parker is injured. It goes to overtime. Kawhi has an iconic block on Russ in overtime, like, like swipe, like catches the ball basically in midair on a fast break layup. And then they just, you know, pass the Spurs to death. And my, I was at all the finals games. I remember one of my vivid memories of the Spurs locker room after the game is almost bumping into Aaron Baines as he came out of like a training room holding, I'm going to estimate four beers in his hands. And he just shouted to no one in particular, I have a lot of beer. And I was like, this is just a very fun team, a beautiful team. So that's my, that's my third pick. And he, I was worried when you said you bumped into Aaron Baines coming out of something, I was worried about where we were headed with that. But thankfully it was just, just him getting into, you know, they weren't fosters, but I, amen for him doing the proper thing. I was at game one. That's the air conditioning game, right? That's the one. Yes. And I will tell you, um, that the way that the Spurs kind of deconstructed the heat, it, it did just suck the life out of the heat. It was hot as a mother effer. I'm sure you were, you were there, right? Zach. Yeah. And LeBron cramped up, right? Yeah. That was the cramp game. Yes. Yes. So, uh, it felt like when I walking out of there, I didn't think that the series was really, um, a jump ball after that game. I was like, I think the Spurs have this now having watched the way they, they, it was demoralizing to the heat. Um, and as, and I think they played a role. It's interesting that we've picked a couple of, I mean, the, the Mavs aside, which is, is definitely just this shock, an unbelievable David Goliath kind of story, uh, you know, for Zach and I to go Cleveland and Spurs here, it kind of speaks to probably for our, our adult lives, how like building up these giant rivalries between these teams and having them play multiple finals against one another and having it feel like almost myth mythological in its stakes. Like I was watching a Danny green interview a couple of days ago where he was talking about how like every game of this regular season, Popovich was just like, this isn't going to be good enough to beat Miami. Like it was like an animating kind of thing for him. The entire season is like, they knew where this was all going again, a hundred games later. And you know, you could say it got a little, you know, if you, if you get bored of like, you know, these two, three final rematches in a row, I understand. And the parody of the league now is certainly interesting and gives a lot of different fan bases, a lot of different hopes. Speaker 4 : But for stakes and for stories and for, for legend building, this was really a pretty amazing period. Speaker 0 : It's it's also speaks to LeBron's centrality in all of these rivalries and how, what an earthquake the decision was and what a monolith the heat became for the four seasons they were together, the heatles. And I remember going in the locker room after that, after they lose game five to San Antonio. And there was a sense in the locker room, like it's over. Speaker 4 : Speaker 0 : We, we just, we're not going to get, this team is going to be different next year. We've run our course. Like there was almost a relief that the season was over. They knew they were not going to be dispersed by that, by that game. And to your point about the rematches and the rivalries, I'm going to be interested to see where, again, we're only picking 15 of the 27 champions. I'm going to be interested to see how many of the eight, the last eight with no repeats and no one even getting to the finals twice in a row, I don't think are going to get picked because there is a sort of standalone, like without the. Speaker 4 : Repeat without the run at a repeat without the ride. It's it does feel a little different. All right. But for my fourth pick a house, you've already mentioned this team. So I get to be, I get to go from nerding out on the Spurs to pandering. Now I am going to take the 20, 26, New York Knickerbockers breaking the 53 year title drought and just finding Nirvana at exactly the right time down to one against the Hawks. They then go 15 and one, the rest of the playoffs blow out almost everybody. And then the crunch time wins over San Antonio and it's game one against Cleveland. When they come back from the huge deficit, Landry Shamit is on a heater. He has his moments after deuce McBride had his moments against your 76 years when the entire arena was Nick's fans in that series. And then it's the all time. Like I'm going to, I still have friends months later asking me, Hey, were you at the end and OB game? Were you at game four? And I'm like, I'll set that game. But it's, I don't know if it's the, craziest game I've ever seen, but it's the most delirious atmosphere that I've ever been a part of the way that everybody stayed after the game and sang songs. And I actually was talking about this with someone I'm not sure any player in the history of the NBA has had their fame level jump more in one minute than OGN and obese did with that play. Like he was always like NBA nerd fans, like, oh yeah, three and D guy really tough can guard multiple positions. Like, yeah, whatever. And casual fans be like, I think he played for the Raptors. That was like, I don't know. It's just, I don't know. It's just, he's always like in movies. He's on TV. He's a mega star because of that play. And just look, I'm not an expand. I didn't grow up in expand. I lived in New York for 20 years. It's my favorite place in the world to see the city like that. It was just magic. And so there are no brainer top five pick for me. I will take the 20, 26 and X, and then CR gets to pick fifth, but you guys can weigh in CR. You haven't weighed in on this. I was at a bar in Chicago for what game five, the comeback game. Right. And I obviously Game four, game four, three, one Feeling pretty hostile about the Knicks after that, that Sixers series and what the Knicks fans did to my beloved core state slash Waco via slash AKA the spectrum in my head, Wells Fargo center. And I'm sitting there, my wife's from Yonkers. She doesn't really care about basketball very much. We're watching this game. It obviously becomes this thing that, you know, you're going to remember for the rest of your life. She's locked in, they win and she starts crying a little bit and I'm like, why are you crying? And she was like, I'm just thinking about my dad. And I was like, God damn it. So now I have to like the Knicks, you know what I mean? But that's the, that's devastating to people. You know what I mean? Like you could be like the most casual, passive New Yorker in terms of your fandom with the Knicks or, or what have you. And it was this giant kind of heartbeat. Inside of like a city and a fan base that even as a calloused and bitter Philadelphia, I had to respect the love. And I lived in New York for a long time and have a lot of affection for the place. My, my wife who is not a basketball fan, doesn't really follow it other than like, you know, through my work and vaguely hearing it around our house all the time was like texting me during the games. Like, do you think they're going to win? What's I'm like, honey, I'm, I'm working. Like I got a job and it was only because she loves New York city. That much. She doesn't care about the Knicks. Like she likes jail and Brunson now, but like, she just loves the city and wanted the city to be happy and have a moment. And it did. And I'm sorry that some of that came at the expense of the Sixers, but you do get to pick next CR. I do get to pick next. This is a really interesting turning point. I feel like we've started to take off most of the, the obvious ones. So I'm going to go with the 14, 15 warriors here. Okay. Um, birth of the death lineup. This is curve taking over from Mark Jackson. This is Steph going full supernova into our consciousness, a great mix of funky old warriors, or even if they're not old, but guys who felt like of a different era, like Festus and Barbosa with this new wave of Steph clay and, and, uh, and Draymond and tied together by, you know, and this kind of basketball felt so, especially, you know, coming on, uh, like obviously iterating on what San Antonio had been doing. I just felt like this kind of basketball was like, um, it was like watching punk rock emerge or something. It was like, this is awesome. This is like a whole new, new way of seeing things and a whole new way of watching this game. And it was, uh, an incredibly lovable team. I really didn't have any hostility towards LeBron, other than like, he just obviously got a lot of bites at the apple here, but this, this specific warriors team watching them kind of become self-aware watching the splash brothers emerge, you know, watching Kerr make this incredibly consequential, uh, tactical change that changed NBA. It was just a, a team. I have a lot of, a lot of time for that. Outwent Andrew Bogut, a player that I loved watching, like a really cagey, really cagey, smart player. And in came Iguodala the death lineup suggested by Nick Uran, who was an assistant coach at the time sort of famously. Uh, and the Genesis of that was even like Draymond is a complete accident. Like David Lee gets hurt in training camp and Draymond, who's going to be a 10 minute, a game backup is forced to start and changes the entire course of not only the warriors, but the NBA creates like a, a total archetypal player. Um, and you have that, you have David Lee in game three and garbage time, like as in, in like a version of the death lineup, kind of lighting up the game. Speaker 3 : And the light bulb goes on with the coaches fun, kind of underrated, like drama in the playoffs. They go down to one to Memphis. Mike Conley's playing with a broken face and there are these moments and they're down to one to the calves without Kyrie and without Kevin love by that point in the series, Kyrie's injured in game one. So that's, that is a little bit of a Mark against them. Like they kind of had a bit of an easy road to Clippers and the Spurs had to face each other in the first round, Epic Spurs win. And I'm sorry, Epic Clippers win. And then the rockets, a limit, the Clippers choke in the next round. So their best West rivals are taken out, but it was punk rock. Like even Barkley was like, they're too small. They can't, there's, you can't win like this. Phil Jackson was like, how's it going with all the three point shots? And yeah, you could win like this. And I was at a lot of those games. It was super fun house. Yeah. I don't want to dunk on Mark Jackson, but I do want to just note that it felt very, I don't know, invigorating, invigorating. That's the word to see that version of basketball unleashed. And it was sitting right there. Like it, the elements, the pieces were there. And I think the way that the 2014 season ended for the Warriors, we wanted more. It felt like there was more to be had. And then to sort of have that visited upon us by the realization of, you know, all, all of these happy accidents that occurred, but the arrival of, of Steph Curry, um, speaking of sliding door moments, just, just a wonderful team. Definitely on my list of favorites. Yeah. Steph, uh, I mean, I, I think it's, it's iconic forgotten icon, not so I guess it's not iconic, but forgotten crazy step three pointer game three against the Pelicans of all teams in the first round to send the game into overtime, crazy, like falling out of bounds, corner three, only Steph makes that shot. He had already arrived, right? Like I always think of the 2013 series against the Spurs, uh, who go onto the finals as Steph's like, holy shit, this guy's a problem or like even the Spurs can't figure them out. But this was, this was the capstone and like the, this style of basketball actually can win. Like this house, you get two picks and now it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. There's a couple, there's one team. I'm surprised nobody has picked yet. I wonder if you will pick them in this little spree you have here. Yeah. I will tell you guys, I'm thrilled to have this team available to me. It's the 2004 Detroit piston. That was, that was for sure. I adore, I adore that team. Um, it's an, speaking of, you know, refreshing, you'd remember the era that we'd lived through, um, in the years leading up to the pistons, you know, when it was, it was the dominant Lakers 2000, 2001, 2000 and two 2003. Uh, I I'll be respectful, but kind of forgettable Spurs over net. So, okay. Right. The, the, the, the whole nets winning the East, both being the back-to-back years. Uh, fine. Okay. But, um, that, that pistons team where really at the moment, only Chauncey was the one that, that you felt like there it, you know, the, the famous way to tag it is, was a starless team. Now Chauncey went on career wise to, had to, you know, he's a first ballot hall of famer. Um, assuming his legal troubles get all kind of sorted out. And I assume that they will at some point. Um, but I mean, Rashid rip Tayshaun and a guy that will always be close to my heart, Ben Wallace, who started his career here in Washington. That's one of those trades. I started, I was gonna say started his career in Washington. Didn't start his career in Washington. Yes. I, we won't, I can't, I won't, I won't, it's still too hard. It's too tough. Uh, but yeah, an incredible team and you know, they validated, they went back to the finals the next year. So, you know, proving that it wasn't, they didn't just catch lightning in a bottle and, and catch chemistry. They, it was a sustainable, you know, um, really hard to defend team is the, is the way they're the hallmark is the team defense. But you know, Kobe said at the time, those guys just don't fuck up. They just don't leave anything. They're not no unforced errors with this team. They're too good. They're too crisp. They execute brilliantly. So I'm thrilled to have the 2004 pistons as part of my, uh, inventory here. I watched the end of this series last night, uh, on YouTube. The final game is, is up for free on YouTube. If people want to go back and which one though, the lake Lakers Pistons. Yeah. Lakers. Pistons and, uh, played in Boston, Detroit rather. And, uh, Al Michaels on the call, I believe the game ends and Al Michaels goes, the crazies just have to stop blowing up stuff in indoor buildings, which is the most Detroit thing ever. Like somebody had obviously started setting off, like basically firecrackers inside of, I guess it was the palace. And, uh, Al Michaels is not happy. poetic summary. Wow. This amazing blue collar city beating the Hollywood Lakers. He's just like, gosh, darn it. You got to stop setting up these fire trackers. There's a, it's just a very weird kind of anticlimactic end to a series because game ends. There's no rushing the court. There's no crying. Like Larry Brown hugs Kobe for like two full minutes. Everybody's pretty respectful. I mean, GP and Carl Malone, like the whole, that whole late period of that Lakers team, obviously hanging their heads. But I had, uh, I was in love with this team. I, I, I had a blog at the time named after Chauncey Billups or shortly like right after that, I think I started it, but this was a, this is a team that was made up of guys where you were like, this could only work these five guys together, like rip on any other team. She had been, on other teams, you know, Chauncey had been, it was a, it was a guy who had been in Boston, obviously. And it was like something about the five of them all clicked together. Yeah. That's starting five carried like a massive burden. These teams are like, I went back and I watched a little bit of their, a couple of their elimination games against the nets. I've forgotten that the nets Pistons went to seven games in the second round and the Pistons are down three, two in New Jersey, I think. And Rip Hamilton makes a bunch of, makes a bunch of clutch jumpers and they blow the crap out of them. The nets in game seven, it's a pretty, both of these teams. And I watched a little bit of the Pacers conference finals, which the Pistons went forward to there's like a absolutely preposterous amount of Anthony Johnson going on backup guard. Anthony Johnson is playing like crunch time for the Pacers and just throwing up these layups that have no chance in a game that the Pistons win game six, 69 65 is the final score of the game. And then that, but the Laker series, they, that was like similar to heat spurs in 2014. That series was like done by game three, game four. You could tell like they, they just had it. The Lakers were toast. And of course, if Al Michaels was upset at what was going on in the palace at the end of that series, I would have had bad news for Al Michaels in 2004. Some other bad stuff was going to happen at the palace in a few months, but they were in my inner circle of, of teams too. So that's a good pick house. So you got next. Thank you. I really regret this before you go shout out to Corliss Williamson, who was a key member of that bench and was one of my, I just had a soft spot for Corliss Williamson a, as it like an undersized, but physical interior, incredible Razorback college, a college basketball, the era of I can name every, every NBA player. I remember where they went to college because they were there for like two or three years. Yeah. And those Arkansas teams were, were so fun to watch. They were incredible. Um, yeah, so I, I regret this. Um, it's, it's a little bit tokey. It's a, it's definitely corny, but in my heart of hearts, the 2008 Celtics, I was wondering, I was wondering who was going to do it. I'm sorry. I didn't have to do it, but now I'm mad. Cause I'm, I got to scramble. There has been no mandate from the top to 2008 Celtics. So I'm, I'm actually a little surprised they're picked this high. I probably would have picked them somewhere, but this is high. This is high house. I know. Well, the heart wants what the heart wants. And part of the reason that, that this hokey Ubuntu, uh, you know, I'm so glad you mentioned Ubuntu right off the top, a reminder to everybody that anything is possible. Anything is possible as Kevin Garnett told us, um, their run. Um, I'm so glad you mentioned Ubuntu right off the top, a reminder to everybody that anything is possible. his team right right right yes uh they handled their business fine against the Pistons and then the the Lakers series um and ended up being you know kind of legendary just because of the game four comeback they were down 24 points in game four on the road in LA and at that point in time I had a soft spot for Boston even though it's in my DNA as I grew up a Bullets fan so as a Bullets fan I hated the Celtics I hated Larry Bird that whole era they tortured Washington although one of the claims to fame for Washington in that entire era is that the the 1986 Celtics only lost one home game in the then that entire run and it was to Washington but it was not at the garden they played a home game somewhere in in New England right but in Hartford there was a time where they played like a couple games in Hartford every year Washington did we have that we should hang a banner for that I was gonna say I was gonna suggest it but I mean you know so I'm against the Celtics in general but uh I've also maybe this is some recency bias I kind of love Doc and I love Doc's the way Doc's career arc has moved and those guys believing in Doc at that moment and seeing those personalities come together for that common purpose that common goal and I really do now have an affinity for for KG as well so I don't mind calling this a favorite of mine from that era CR you said you were you said you were scrambling so sell me on on why this team appealed to you too as a as a you know as a Philly fan I'll to boot I was a huge KG fan and I was a huge Rondo fan and I remember this is like if you not to use another musical comparison here but I remember when I this was the first time I remembered watching the Celtics and the Lakers play in a finals and I was like this is like it's like the difference between drummers and John Bonham drumming you're like this this is different this is crazy like the the pageantry everything all the the clips they're showing of like the previous dynasties the previous decades green versus gold just looks good dude like it was just it was everything that I kind of had always thought about because I was like I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know but never experienced and then to see it actually play out and the personalities they're just so much larger than life with Pearson and KG versus versus Kobe and pal and I was just awestruck you know and even even though I think it's really more of those recent vintage of of Celtics like always somehow getting the upper hand on trades with the Sixers always landing on their feet with their you know rebuilding and in midstream it's that's the the the teams that I sort of resent this version of the Celtics I kind of have some time for um I used to live in Boston and uh yeah this this felt like kind of an extension of that period of time in Boston where the Red Sox come and win the World Series and then the Celtics win the first one in what was it 22 years since 86 yeah um here so you you sold it very well I would have I would this team definitely deserves to be picked in this draft I think this is a few spots too high for me but here's here's the other selling points on the team um it I love KG KG is one of my all-time favorite players he's languishing in Minnesota and is part of the greatest single season turnaround in the history of basketball pretty much he wins a title in Boston right off the bat one of my favorite players ever and by this all starts because they lose they fall in the Durant Odin lottery and decide okay we've got a we've got to reshuffle trade for Ray Allen trade for KG uh Pierce redemption like he you know was there he was almost traded a bunch of times like is he selfish is he's not he's not a guy it's the wheelchair slash maybe poop game series uh which we can't we can't forget that can't forget that such a great poll house's game four comeback highlighted by Ray Allen just I think crossing Sasha Vujicic like out of the league entirely in one one of his shots uh the Cavs so the knock against the Celtics is embarrassing that it takes you seven games to beat the Hawks when you're a 66 win team yes somewhat embarrassing that it takes an all-time Paul Pierce performance in like a 40 point duel against LeBron to sneak out game seven against the Cavs team that's like relying on Sasha Pavlovich to play big minutes that's the famous like Paul Pierce snags a jump ball loose ball in that game um PJ Brown a buyout guy has a big game in that game and Andrew Bynum is out for the entire playoffs for the Lakers but um it's it's a slightly unconvincing run in the playoffs but a great team Tibbs becomes an NBA character for how he revolutionizes NBA defenses and schemes and zones with that team so it's it's a good pick um CR you get to pick eighth and after you will take it we'll take a quick break so you get you're that you're at the midway point of the draft now we're we're really the problem here is that we're all we're all avoiding the Lakers and I and I and I I'm going to continue to do it this year you and I the three of us are all generationally in and around similar ages we all are from more or less similar parts of the country we all know what we're doing you know we're not picking these goddamn Lakers teams even though they are obviously the dominant force in the early so I'm just gonna go with a sentimental fun I had a blast watching these guys pick here and I am going to pick the 23 nuggets wow I thought that was going to come all the way back around to me which I'm doing this because I do not think this is a uh team that had to face a lot of obstacles although they certainly handled their business I think they lost four games the whole postseason true um yep 16 and four they beat a Miami team that was probably with all with all due respect maybe punching a little bit above their weight but this was just like spolstering Jimmy Magic getting getting to this point but this much like the Warriors team I picked earlier another absolute piece of poetry when it comes to the sport of basketball is watching Joker conduct an offense orchestrated offense this is probably the best version of best team Jokers had um uh Michael Malone as we as we always know his name is Michael coaching these guys and this was Aaron Gordon Jamal Murray Porter Joker and then you had contributions coming from Brucey and KCP and all these guys and it just felt like Denver's had a lot of trouble balancing everything since then getting guys healthy at the same time getting their young players to play up to the standard that they expect them to the this was maybe it was a a one and done for them which is kind of tragic when you consider Joker's talent but this is just such an awesome team to watch throughout this playoffs as they kind of bulldoze Minnesota smoked the Lakers you know and and then and then really handled their business against Miami Jokic has that iconic step back three over Anthony Davis in game four to sweep the Lakers a sweep that Tim McMahon called the Golden Broom because the Lakers bragged about how close they were to beating Nuggets and they lost four games house you seemed very uh excited to pick this team I was wondering if they were actually going to fall out of the draft but you seem like you were you were going to be on it at some point one element of it to me is picking up on the theme that that CR just identified I'm nostalgic for that team now it's only it's we're only a handful of years away from it but I you know this is going to fall in that category that we get accused of over at the ringer of being uh Joker truthers I mean you know guilty yes for sure yeah it's like that's what he's being he's pretty good like ice cream truthers like ice cream I like ice cream it's really good yeah you know maybe it's just the non-existent rivalry between uh Jokic and and I've had a lot of people in my life what a sell Joel Embiid to me over the over there like come on man come on come on um Joker has a trophy it's all right yeah I think everybody's happy good yes right um so I I had this team kind of circled because I feel like it's the one I don't I don't see it Pat unless he goes to a different team this Denver situation uh and it is a a modern challenge like this is a function of the collective bargaining agreement they weren't able to really come back and vigorously defend their title injuries played a role as well but they kind of had to break up the team right away and that kind of sucks depending on your perspective of whether or not you like this parody era that we're in um but I I just you know I'm glad that the Joker got his one so I had this one circle from for me this team has to be picked because of Jokic at the absolute Apex of his ability and one of the most watchable players ever um it's also a sort of um like they had 2021 and 2022 taken away from them by injuries to Jamal Murray to Michael Porter Jr uh Aaron Gordon was this just master stroke of a trade by Tim Connolly like the absolute perfect fit it was clear right away and then it was the only one they traded for him then they didn't get to really leverage that in the playoffs because of their injuries um Jamal Murray has a bunch of big shots in games three and four to hold off the heat, including game four. Jokic for one of the rare times in his career gets in foul trouble and has to sit for a bunch of minutes in the fourth quarter and usually when Jokic sits, Denver just melts, but they didn't in that series. Michael Malone, all-time parade performance, possibly parade performances, possibly a beverage or two had been consumed. Up there with Jason Kelsey after the first Eagles Super Bowl. I got to watch that. I don't know. Full mummers wear. Full mummers outfit. Interestingly, if you talked to people with the Nuggets, even during that run, they would have told you, you mentioned Minnesota CR, that Minnesota series, that was the toughest team that they played in the playoffs. And I believe Nas Reed and Jada McDaniels maybe were both injured in that series. And boy were they right, because Minnesota has eliminated them in two out of the last three playoffs since then. Was that Jada McDaniels punches a wall? I believe that's the year that Jada McDaniels punches the wall and is out in that series. But it really a really fun team. Again, like faced two play-in teams of their four-playoff series, so not the most hellacious road, but they did their job. All right, let's take a quick break, and then I'm on the clock for two straight. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphya, proper training is required. Tramphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TramphyaRadio.com Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about We Go V, some maglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-800-526-7736. 3-3-3-4 We Go V, or visit WeGoV.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Go V. Why wait? We. Go. V! Thanks. All right, I'm doing it. Someone's got to pick a Lakers team, and I'm going to pick the 2001 Lakers. For Christ's sakes, of all the Lakers teams, you had to do that one? What's wrong with that one? They're the most dominant playoff team, perhaps, ever. They go, 15-1. Yeah, they did. Oh, you're the one. That's right. The step-over game is the only game that anyone beats them in the playoffs, so you have that. It's a much better banner to hang than houses. We beat the Celtics in Hartford in 1986. There aren't many banners in Washington, baby. Shaq for the playoffs, 30 points and 15 rebounds. Kobe, 29-7-6 on 47% shooting. It's the absolute height of their powers as a duo. The feud has already started. Like, if you can go back and read books, and news articles, it's like, it's already out in the open that there's a feud, but they put it behind them for that, and they kind of sleepwalk through the regular season. This is the middle title of their three-peat to start the 2000s, and then they just turned it on in the playoffs and destroy everyone. I mean, like, you will not, it's, it was unthinkable that any team could destroy a Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs team like this Lakers team did in the playoffs. It was, like, absolutely unthinkable. Horace Grant is randomly involved and dunks on Arvidas Sabonis in the first round of the playoffs. And let's see what else happens. And Mark Madsen dances at the parade. Iconic dance moment at the parade. I have really nothing else to say. It's just a peak Shaq and Kobe. I'm sorry, Chris. The 2000 team, the first one, the Pacers, they wanted to play the Pacers. Maybe I'll take them next. They might be more fun. 2002 is tainted by the officiating controversy against the Kings and the fact that I like every neutral fan. I was rooting for the Kings and the way they played to kind of break through. So this is my sweet spot Lakers team. You guys don't seem to like this pick. I hate it, but this team lost three games in three straight finals. That's crazy. They went 12 and three over three years in the finals. Like we're probably historically underrating them because this is the kind of like you wonder about media bias where it's like a bunch of guys who don't like the Lakers. It's hard to like acknowledge that this this might have been the greatest collection of basketball players outside of some of those 80s teams that we've ever seen that this this period of Shaq when he's dialed in is caused me many nights of wondering whether basketball was solved and over like I was like, well, if he can just do this, I don't really know. There's nothing to do about it, right? Like they're going to win the title for five straight years. It's really only them that destroyed themselves. You know, like it was the fact that they kind of couldn't keep it together. And obviously, you know, basketball is something the NBA season is so long. The personalities involved are so complicated that I think a three-peat is about all you can really ever dream of. But when you now look at what we we watch now and as house referred to the parody era, it's almost inconceivable that we'll ever see something like this again. And they were the Death Star and I hated them. Yeah, I will say, Zach, I wasn't a hundred percent sure what the rules around these selections were going to be if we were going with some combination of excellence and personal. Yeah, I understand that, which is why I was thrilled. And that's why I'm happy with all the selections. But this team was at the top of my list potentially if I had to really extol virtue because you mentioned that that Spurs series they beat the shit out of them. They beat they won game three. By thirty nine points in game four by forty like, you know, that was unthinkable. That's exactly it. So I I had this side. I was I didn't think that you were going to be a Laker hater all the way through. But if they'd fallen to me, I would have taken this team. All right. Now it gets tough. I've got like six teams. I'm debating between including just taking to either the two thousand or two thousand ten Lakers, both teams that I'm very fond of. I will take one of those eventually. I think I just think these guys have to be represented in this draft and I'm not sure anyone is taking them anywhere. This franchise. I will take the twenty thirteen Miami Heat. The second of the of the repeat championships of the LeBron heels there are the second and last. That's the Ray Allen shot team coming back from three to two down. It's game six. It's not the greatest. I don't know if it's not the greatest game of LeBron's career that that is either game one of the twenty eighteen finals against the Warriors or game six against Boston in twenty twelve where he basically saves the heat and the heat is a franchise in that game. They're down three to but there's like a twenty five minute stretch of game six where if you go back and watch it, he is literally doing everything. He scores or assists on like every basket. He's flying around defensively blocking shots and getting steals. It's crazy and it's an interesting team because that's the team that won twenty seven games in a row in the regular season and they get to the Eastern Conference finals. They face the Pacers in the Eastern Conference finals. Pacers are kind of like an accidental rival like it was supposed to be the Bulls. The Pacers were like and it was the Celtics and then they age out. It was supposed to be the Bulls. The Pacers kind of rise up in the void and become a pretty formidable rival for the heat. But the heat going into that series were forty five and three in their prior forty eight games and then they're eight and six in the rest of the playoffs. They get tested a little bit and they get knocked down and they have to get up. Haslam has two random games against the Pacers where he like rises from the dead and makes a bunch of mid-range jump shots. I mentioned the race shot. You could argue the twenty twelve team is more fun than this. It's the it's the first one. It's the one where they really discover their identity with Bosch at center and all that. I'm interested to see if somebody picks them. I'm just I have such a soft spot for these two series between the heat and the Spurs that this is the one that I would gravitate to. The other highlight from this I had forgotten it was this year. LeBron pace. Spurs game one game winning buzzer beating layup when Vogel takes Roy Hibbert out of the game on the last possession to controversial coaching decision. So I'm going twenty thirteen heat. I'm not sure any of the heat teams are going to get picked, but I'm picking them here. Well, think about that. That's two controversial decisions taking your best rebounder out of the game and the heat where the beneficiary of both of those Duncan was not on the floor for the Ray Allen shot. That's right. See, are you get to go next? I've taken heatles peak heatles from you and I'm going to take a look at the rest of your picks and I'm going to take a look at the rest of your picks. I'm going to take a look at the rest of your picks. about this but you guys have to understand like i can't good conscience pick a a team where you know like the reffing seemed to basically manipulate a finals and i i'm not going to pick boston again oh brother i i can't i can't i can't believe i'm gonna do this is this for content or is this for self-flagellation i am i taking the 19 wraps you i just wrote it down in sharpie before you said it i could tell who's going right we we knew where you were headed fuck these guys i agree with that that's it why am i picking this team i'm picking this team because it was incredible and even though i think that they obviously caught in some ways some injury luck with the warriors in the finals what the this was a precursor almost to what new york was you know with the the fan experience the emergence of the we the north thing you know take yourself back to 2019 drinks pretty important guy courtside every single game we built this everything you see here we built this uh and a really really cool collection of players that i individually like even if i hate what they did to one of my favorite sixers teams um so i guess this is my way of of tipping my cap to them the kawaii van vliet uh marcus all you know pascal and og here right and just um just a really really fun cool team we've since now inherited nick nurse as our coach in philadelphia so i do have some connected tissue to it what's your what's your guys's feeling about the 19 wraps well first i wanted to ask you um that's jimmy butler sixers team reddick is still there triple doink yeah uh yeah i know um and it's that i remember i wrote about this i think after game six or game five was when you could see the beginning of ben simmons just being lost at sea offensively i asked him about it after one of the games like hey man you're just kind of standing in the dunker spot what's going on uh but is that cr is that the best sixers team of the mb era still or has any of them surpassed that i think that's probably i'm sure there are teams that had underlying numbers that were more effective in the mori era and i'm sure i i personally have a level of for like the feds era of of mb simmons covington dario you know faults reddick like that kind of like it's all coming together um but this is probably the team that had the best chance at the finals and then i know there's a lot of butterfly effect to consider but if the sixers had gone to the finals if they had gone to the finals this year with that kind of what happened to the warriors with their injuries you know then we're talking about your nba champion sixers which is hard hard to contemplate so i also love this team and i was going to pick them at some point um they're a look there's a bit of a mercenary element to them and i don't mean that in a bad way i just mean like the raptors who had suffered all the pain at the hands of lebron over the years were kind of like mostly gone it was lowry and like maybe one other guy that i'm blanking on who but baka had been there like a year by that point kawaii was obviously brand new van vliet and solid mid-season trade mid-season trade for yonas valentunas who's one of the guys who had suffered all the pain norm powell had been there a couple of years but they all did blend very well together into a beautiful machine on both ends of the floor um i've i've joked with people from the raptors like they were so pissed when kawaii left obviously that's all been out in the news again in the last year but i've joked with them over the years like isn't it sort of ironic that you guys were all so furious about how that went down and uncle dennis and all that and really like you got the last great healthy non-controversial year of kawaii leonard's career and then he just left and now he's back and to your point like warriors yeah they suffered injuries durant comes back tragic achilles tear clay gets injured all that the east was like hellacious that year that sixers team was awesome the bucks team in the next round wins the first two games of the series game three of the conference finals goes to double overtime like the raptors are that close from being down and they're not going to be able to go down three oh and then they win four straight they win the title i think it's a fun team and and uh yeah it's it's canada it would have been cool to see them play death star warriors super team at full strength but again like the nba is an attrition league and that had been a lot of basketball on a lot of tires there and and you know i just i wish that the injuries that the guys on the warrior suffered had not been so significant because it altered careers i mean i've said this i've said this before when when i was at all those games and when clay got hurt in game six i was like can we just end the finals now like this is just this is too much just let's i mean game five was an unbelievable warriors win minus the like the elephant in the room of durant getting hurt and bob myers crying at the press conference and the controversy of whether he should have come back or not by game six was like i can't this is too much uh house you seem like you were tempted by the steve you have two picks now yeah i i um just to close the thought on toronto i haven't asked risk next to them you have to make a judgment call around you know them vanquishing golden state in the finals the highly depleted versus versus in the moment the experience of living through kawaii taking a franchise to its very first and the beloved you know the the way that um toronto embraced that team you know as a this the combination there of that city and kawaii there at that moment and and dragging them into the position to be in the finals in in the first place and dragging them like not to bring up bad memories for cr but they're down 2-1 to philadelphia in philadelphia game three is like maybe the best sixers game collectively of the entire and beat air it's when he runs down doing the airplane after some play and kawaii in game four i think it's like 39 or 40 and just hits these just gut punch threes but i'm sorry house go ahead no it's fine um but that was the thought and and now i'm colored i'm colored by what's transpired with kawaii so i i was not going to um pick this team at all but i understand sort of the the uh in inclination to do so uh with my first pick of the two that are here i am going to take a golden state warriors team um but it's it's it's the one that the heart wants and and since cr took 2015 it's going to be the 2022 uh i i knew this was going to happen i'm going to bet you are not going to be taken you're i i i can tell you i won't be taking either one of those two teams for sure um this this 2022 um warriors team is the the the ascendance of steph into is he in the top 10 of all-time players in the league that that's what he this was the the true experience it's his only finals mvp which is kind of hard to believe was is is 2022 um i think it's a fascinating finals because they played the celtics and it was this you know this annual referendum with the celtics team because of the success that um jb and jason tatum had so early in their careers are they ready for it and you know that 2022 uh series does maybe fast forward us to the moment we just went through jb played better than jason tatum in the in that final series i mean there was a real sort of question we're saying this i i don't think it's controversial uh you know he he was the alpha in that series um but i was at game six i got to be there for in boston for the awarding of the trophy it happened to coincide with the uh u.s open golf tournament at uh brookline up there so i got to see both the u.s open and the nba finals that's a nice bucket list and i think it's going to us two buckets checked off there but um it was cool to see steph get the mvp trophy so i'm i'm i'm happy to select that one kind of it it certifies it you know what i mean yes if if durant did anything if durant's arrival in golden state did anything to kind of diminish steph's power his standing his his ability to claim that i i i am enough to just take a team to to a championship he got it back here i think that what's interesting about this team and this era of the nba is that you're getting into even though you have teams like boston who are in and around the finals for several years you have you have really great teams that are obviously engineered to to succeed deep into the playoffs there's a little bit of like a hot goalie thing going on in the nba now where it's just like ah we just got a hot goalie we got a good good seed good good path to through the playoffs and like you never know what might happen and that's like you get halliburton hot goalie you know what i mean injury luck and then all of a sudden you're you're kind of find yourself playing for larry o'brien trophy but this this warriors team is maybe you know for as much as it might seem fluky in retrospect after we've seen what happened to the warriors it was such a great moment to see steph get one more and really be in that that that real upper vip roped off part of the hall of fame - It was unexpected, I think even maybe by some people within the words before that season. Although I know the coaches were kind of optimistic. They had finished the previous season strong. There's like a little bit of an interregnum in the Western conference where Denver's taken out by injuries and the Clippers are taken out. Kawhi's out this entire season. The sun's kind of fall apart in the playoffs against the Mavs, which is again, no fault to the words they beat who they beat. And, and they took, they were 16 and six in the playoffs. It was a great team. It's a, it's a wonderful clay back from like the back-to-back devastating injuries. It's an Andrew Wiggins, like semi redemption from disappointing number one pick to like maybe second best player on a championship team. It's, it's just random guys. Like Otto Porter started a game in the NBA finals. Like that was a real thing that, that, that happened. Remember the Draymond Jalen Brown feud where like, they got tangled up and Draymond like kind of grabbed his leg and like they feuded and then Draymond went on his podcast was like, I got it. I was in his head. I was in his head. I took him out of the series. I knew I had them just peak dream on fucking shit up. Very fun team. I knew they were even like they played Memphis that year as a kind of a callback to their first title in 2015, they run into a little bit of a road, not a little bit of hiccup against Memphis. It's one-to-one Moran then gets hurt and misses the end of that series. There's the whoop, that trick game where they get destroyed in Memphis and Draymond is like singing along with the crowd. Just a very fun team. And like you said, it just a crowning game for crowning moment of Steph Curry's career, 40 something points warriors went on the road to even the series of two go on to win it at six. I was also their house and was able to finagle my way in to the warriors after party, which was in a VIP club in inside the TD garden. And one day when my career is nearing its end, I will tell a story of something that occurred, not anything super controversial, but just funny, um, at that party, but I can not tell it now. How should you get another that, that party is legendary. Somebody needs to do an oral history of that party because you're not the only one with stories coming out of that party. If I go back into my text thread, I know it sound like the, the oral history would be a grand jury testimony. It's no, there's no, I want to be clear. There's no crime. There's no nudity. There's no salaciousness. It's a funny in the weeds, NBA story of like a slide. It's a sliding doors moment that kind of occurred at that party that I will tell one day, Hey, can I ask you something like more than an hour into a podcast that, and it's, it's not germane to exactly what we're talking about. Did you happen to see, speaking of, I can't speak about this. Dwayne Wade has a pod and was like, LeBron went to Philly. I think that's the right place for him to go. I think there's something else coming and that's all I can really say about that. And I, everybody is assuming what he's saying. I'm not saying, I'm not, everybody is assuming what he's talking about is some sort of ad trade, but I was rather thrown off by this. He says it with an enormous amount of certainty. And I was curious whether you had any guess as to what he meant. I wasn't KCP signing with the sixers. I didn't see this. Was there a twinkle in his eye? Was there, he's like looking off camera to see like, am I in trouble for even saying this? And like, he's like, ah, I'm just going to say there are more people like there's more to come, you know? And I didn't, for all I know, that could just be like Bronnie. I hear Delaware is lovely in the winter, you know, like, but I was, I was a little bit confused. I did not see this. People are assuming it's an ad trade or people are dot connecting a potential ad that would be in bead, right? There is there any, I mean, I guess it could be jail and Brown. I, I, I have not heard wind of anything and I won't even hazard a guess. Maybe Dwayne Wade is coming out of retirement too. Yeah, sure. Wow. I got a, this is my homework now when I get off this house, you have the 13th pick there and then we have two picks left after that. Yes. Um, I, as a policy matter will not take the Lakers because the only Lakers team I would countenance was the 2001 Laker. So I'm, I'm proud to, to, to avoid them. I'm going to honor this last selection of mine by taking the 2021 Milwaukee bucks. Okay. And the reason there's a handful of reasons for it. It was a unique moment, not only in NBA history, but in human history, because it was the 2020, 2021 season, a S a season that was shortened by 10 games. It started around Christmas time, which in my heart of hearts is so goddamn beautiful. I really wish the NBA could just adopt this. Awesome. We have a month. A model for this. It's super successful 72 games starting at Christmas. I mean, let's go back. Let's romanticize that. It's really terrific, but it did usher us this NBA season. It was as, you know, COVID, um, the, the vaccine, uh, was, was arriving and there was, there was hope on the horizon. And then, you know, there was some semblance of normalcy creeping back into our lives. Um, in terms of the actual basketball, uh, the, the, the bucks had, um, uh, an iconic series with the nets, like the, the flame out of the nets in 2021 with the, um, Kevin Durant foot on the line game. Um, and it was, you know, they, they were down two games to zero to that Brooklyn team. And that Brooklyn team was supposed to have been, you know, the, the, the Eastern conference, uh, dynamo for a bit of time and never, you know, that, that was always just promising. unfulfilled. I liked very much the way that the finals went, where we had the drama of Giannis hurting his knee in the series against the Hawks. And then, you know, what's happening with the knee for him to come into the finals against this Suns team. And it culminated with his 50 piece on in game six, which turned into him going to Chick-fil-A and ordering a 50 piece nuggets, which is always will forever be obviously close to my heart iconic. So I just have, you know, a fondness because of the unique circumstances in which it occurred. I'm always a sucker for a, you know, a player of Giannis's stature delivering a title to a, to a city that's been deprived of titles for a super long time. Now, obviously green Bay and that sort of thing, but, but there are, you know, the bucks have been, depending on your perspective, a tiny bit of a snake bitten franchise. They've got near the summit many times and circumstances, you know, it's kind of snatched away their path. So a little bit of a fondness for, for, for this bucks team. And this, this is probably, I don't know, but probably the only one that Giannis gets CR. He mentioned that they faced the Hawks surprisingly in the conference finals. Do you have any memory of how the Hawks, you know, arrived at, at the conference finals that season? Like how could that have been? No, I, it seems as though that would have to be kind of like a weird twist of, of a guy's brain shutting down in a high leverage moment, but I don't remember any, maybe my brain shutting down in a high leverage moment. Cause I personally don't recall anything like that happening. I was wondering if either the 2020 Lakers or 2021 bucks was going to be picked because of the COVID factor. Like the bubble for the Lakers, just weird. I've always defended that title, but as, as an experience, it was weird. 2021 was like the arena where their fans, there were like some limited amount of fans, I think in some of the arenas, I can't remember, but it was not like normal. And kind of, and the net series while Epic Harden misses part of it and then is limping around at the end. Kyrie misses the last part of the series. So like, you know, but whatever, they win the series. It's peak Middleton Giannis two-man game for the NBA. Speaker 3 : Giannis makes his free throws somehow in game six, like the best free throw shooting game of his career. And then game five, I just think maybe it's underrated because of the lack of fans and the COVID and all of that. One of the craziest plays in the history of the NBA is the drew holiday steel and Ali to Giannis in the final seconds of game five, when the bucks are up by one and the quote unquote smart play is for drew holiday to not throw like a risky lob pass to a horrible free throw shooter, but he does anyway. And it works and Giannis dunks it and they win the game. One of the craziest plays. He steals the ball from Devin Booker. It's a fun team. And I, I like, I like house. I like that. You have the soft spot for the long suffering fan bases, as you should, as a Washington bullet slash wizards fan CRD, were you going to pick this team? Was this on your map at all? They were on my map. I have a very strange relationship to this playoffs because for a lot of it, I was in England and was watching games at like one or two Speaker 4 : In the morning. Speaker 2 : Like starting the play, like NBA games would be starting like really late. So I would get to see like 20 minutes before I would pass out. So I can't remember where I saw this, but it was like on a computer screen in a hotel room. And so I wasn't like a commitment. Yeah, sure. I mean, I love the game, but like it was, it was definitely not a, like, I'll remember where I was. What an amazing situation. I was very happy for, for my, my bucks loving friends. And this was actually like a, I would have been fine with whoever won. Cause I love this sun's team. The sun's team was really cool. And the, the, the, the bridges Johnson, and um the combo and then chris paul obviously with devin booker i'm a point god guy i i you know it was his last real shot um at a title and uh didn't happen so this is me is this my last one yeah 14th pick of a 15 team draft your last pick and then i rounded out so you got the floor uh 25 thunder interesting yeah uh it's it's hard because in the last 15 months i feel like this team and this franchise has become a little bit of a punching bag when it comes to you know foul hunting and complaining about refereeing and you know all all the stuff that like i think maybe as fans and as nba watchers we turn a little quickly on teams now um because we get bored but one of the most amazing accomplishments of team building i've ever seen uh obviously some luck here involves with getting shay who would become an mvp but this team it's like no notes man you guys had the best team you won 68 games you had the mvp 68 games and you had like a bunch of guys right underneath shay who were pretty awesome themselves like jalen and chet and everybody else and uh the thing that i loved about this season was that it seemed like a fait accompli that the thunder would win but there was always a question of like are they going to be able to take that leap like when the lights are bright and i think because of the way that the eastern conference playoffs shook out and like the weirdness of all that i was like oh like they get the pacers like this is going to be a sweep this will be quick and i think they really got their metal tested you know and we'll never know what happens if tyrese doesn't blow his achilles out but it was it wound up being an extraordinary finals and a really really really aesthetically beautiful finals of two incredible basketball teams so i even though it's recent i i think it is a great championship and a great championship team i love the pick i honestly didn't think anyone was going to take them for all the reasons you said and plus the the recency bias of chet just turning into a zombie and quaking against the victor wimby yama in the conference finals um they were great 68 wins of 68 wins man that's like absolutely incredible not only were they tested against indiana and they passed it at shay's game four all-time clutch finals game 40 even that series at 2-2 that denver series that went seven in in uh the conference semis that was an epic and it's the role players that i will remember from that series game four in denver down to one not do or die but not far away from the conference game four and the fourth quarter maybe and it's a big thunder comeback like that those are the kind of things you need to win four playoff series these guys doing stuff like that so i didn't i actually didn't think they were going to get picked because of all the shay foul grifting kind of stuff but i i'm glad i'm glad someone took them the house did you have any thoughts on these guys just i i couldn't do it because it's still too close in time to that halliburton injury right like i have so much um you know sort of capital in this indiana pacers team coming into the 26 27 season and literally capital or capital like just emotional capital maybe maybe smidgen both could be a little could be both i mean over 43 and a half wins was incredible it's already up to 48 four and a half for the pace but no setting that aside uh my issue is is we're still too proximate to the halliburton injury so i couldn't i couldn't take it like that that um series will always you know what will click in my mind is having you know watching that in real time and being so bummed out about the the injury and feeling cheated i mean it was a valiant effort by the by the pacers um through the balance of that game but uh the halliburton piece of it made it for me not one where i would say oh this was one of my favorites even even though i appreciate all of the you know i gotta say just on a on a kind of front office team building side of things for the thunder to go from where they were in 16 to you know to completely dismantling the kd russ version of the team and in 10 years basically win a title you know is with a completely new group of players is a really impressive act as as a process follower i would i'm i am i i have to applaud that i get the last pick and i am i feel obligated to honor one of the franchises that won multiple titles during this 20 something year stretch and i'm picking i'm going to end up picking between i really do have a soft spot for the two lakers teams 20 2009 2010 back-to-back champions i'm not going to pick one of those teams good well i mean i i could but i won't i'm actually going to take the 2005 spurs which is the middle of the year and i'm going to pick one of those teams which is the middle of the three oh three oh five oh seven you know eye of the beholder which one of those you prefer we'll talk about the omissions later oh five to me is um peak of the the best manu ginobili we've ever had 21 points a game in the playoffs just monuing all over the place playing point guard basically down the stretch of the games it's the the lineup of parker bowen ginobili ori at the four duncan at the five is just that's like a modern day kind of nba lineup it has the iconic robert ori game winning three in game five in detroit in a game where the the pistons have three shots to go up by four late in the game like one of the ultimate what if swing games in the recent history of the nba the spurs when they end up losing game six to detroit at home to set up game seven um and i just i really i mean i love tim duncan one of my favorite players of all time there's also i had forgotten about this and going back and i think it's the second round there's like a sneaky entertaining san antonio seattle series that's that's two two i think at one point duncan misses a buzzer beater in game three um and seattle's like on fire each heroes at the games like and i it's just like it's the last playoff series in the history of the sonics it's a it's like one of the ray allen teams um i the really fun series so i'm gonna go my love of manu and tim duncan i'm gonna go 2005 spurs i like it i mean that's what it took to to vanquish that pistons team which was was such a unique team and looking to you know they they validated that their 2004 win by making it back to the finals and losing to that spurs team i mean i know it there are some great quotes out there i can't remember who about you know that that horry shot especially he had 21 points in the fourth quarter in overtime uh horry did and and and how that's like one of the most one of the the the lowest moments in this player's life that he was on the wrong end of that i can't remember who gave that he's on it he has it before the three he has an i've asked him about this on a podcast like an absolutely bonkers pump fake drive lefty and one dunk like right over somebody and i can't remember who it is uh there it it was four two spurs over sonics and the game six is 98 96 spurs duncan makes like a little layup with half a second left to win that game on a pass from just a fun i feel like those spurs teams are kind of forgotten because there was low scoring it was ugly it was whatever but they were fun in their way i don't know that there's a team or a franchise that goes through such an incredible transformation from what those guys represented in the middle of the aughts to what they represented in the middle of the teens in terms of of the beauty of their play like you know when you when you would watch san antonio back it was kind of like hey man bite down on this it's gonna it's gonna be a long two hours watching these dudes rebound and and grind out wins and then to get to to get to the 14 era where they're like essentially playing princeton from outer space it's it's pretty awesome to imagine a one coach overseeing two completely different basketball experiences i wanted to ask you guys we didn't do 08 heat right we can talk a little bit about teams that we we didn't pick here oh so 60 060 excuse me and free throw gate that's i is this one that just has a stink on it i hate that series why because they wave got every every whistle that's why free throws yeah yeah well let's go through the we'll do the omissions let's go okay i didn't i didn't consider that team very strong though i think they're fine um and peak wade was like really something to behold if you could set aside yeah the free throw things also about the 2006 heat they beat the pistons fair and square and the year before wade is injured in the eastern conference finals against the pistons i think he even misses a game and then gets some painkiller injection and is not 100 they could have they could have made the finals that year and face the spurs um okay so let's recap the draft uh number one pick house 2011 mavs number two pick cr 2016 calves i get i go 2014 spurs 2026 knicks cr at number five 2015 warriors house at six 2004 pistons a deal at six house at seven, 2008 Celtics pandering CR eight, 23 nuggets. Hi, maybe a reach, but, but, but fine. Me at nine, 2001 Lakers, me at 10, 2013, he CR at 11, 2019 Raptors, even though they broke his team's heart house at 12, the 2022 feel good warriors house at 13, the 2021 bucks CR at 14, 2025 Thunder me. I rounded out 2005 Spurs. Here are the teams we didn't take. And maybe we just like everyone gets one person could just say a thing about them. 2024 Celtics. Anyone want to explain why they are not picked or say something nice about them? We're going in reverse chronological order. 2024 Celtics. I gave it a thought. They were analytics darlings and 16 and three. It was a hell of a run. Um, you know, poor Zingas. Was the, the straw that stirred the drink really, truly the calves and the Pacers being ravaged by injuries kind of ruins that ruins a strong Mars that run a little bit for me. And it remember that Jalen Brown shot to tie game one against the Pacers from the left corner. It was like, Oh, maybe the Pacers are going to make this a series. And then everyone got hurt. Uh, okay. Next on the list of teams, not taking the bubble Lakers 2020. Does anyone want to justify not taking this? Yeah. I mean, some ways you could say this is the biggest asterisks. You could also say this is one of the most amazing accomplishments in the history of leak. You know, I mean, these guys went to a campus at Disney world lived unlike any other pro athletes have ever really had to do. I mean, do something like this with the exception of like, you know, sometimes you see like world cup teams that are like, yeah, we were in this hotel, but they were allowed to go outside. They're allowed to like travel and they're allowed to like go get in and out. Like these guys were in this hotel, but they were allowed to go in and out. Like, you know, they were allowed to do it. They were allowed to do it. You know, it was such a unique circumstance. So for as much as it's like, I don't even know if those conditions hopefully will never be recreated, but you have to admire and it seems like, yeah, maybe only LeBron could have done that, you know, could have focused like that and could have pushed the team through like that. I'm not going to name names. People can Google it. But the, the, one of the highlights speaking of the conditions were the, uh, escapees who are caught and the, um, the player who was caught bringing in a woman from the outside into the bubble. It just great times in the NBA for bridge. Zach, what are you asking for me? I do. I really liked his team. It's ad at the peak of his defensive powers. He guards Jimmy Butler in the finals. He makes that three in game two at the buzzer over, um, when Mason Plumlee messes up in the conference finals to put them up to Owen shouts, Kobe, Kobe about it. It's like the perfect supporting cast that they inexplicably then break up. And it's LeBron's cranky press conference. Like I want my respect. Rob wants his respect and Jeannie wants her respect. I like that team. Playoff. Those guys all crews has a ring. Brandon Ingram has a ring. Am I remembering it? All right. No, no. Brandon Ingram Caruso Caruso Rondo, Danny green is heavily involved. Um, I think we can, I was in the ad trade, right? Yeah. I think we can clump these two together at the 17 and 18 warriors. Uh, very dominant 2017, maybe the best team of all time. Kind of like, obviously they were boring. They were too good. 2018. They do face the adversity of the rockets and they get pushed to the limit. The rockets missed 27 threes in a row. Daryl more a year later says, Oh, a referee audit that we did shows that we actually analytically won the game. Uh, no, you didn't. Um, I mean, there were awesome teams. It just, it was, there was an inevitability that just wasn't fun, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was a glitch in the matrix that Katie ended up with that team, you know, once in the, the entire industry moment where the salary cap had a, a, a, you know, a, a spike and it permitted him to join. I think it had the reverse effect that they were hoping for. I think Katie was like, I want to win a ring. And I think the warriors were like, how can we say no to this? Everybody loves us. Right. And it kind of, it, it, it went, it went the opposite way. It was like, everybody was like, you guys were so cool without him and you were so cool not being on that team. How about you guys just play each other? We like watching that 2016 warriors thunder. One of the greatest series is incredible. Incredible. How about doing that again? Can we just run that back? Speaker 3 : Well, the couple of years cupcakes, maybe a 2012 Miami heat LeBron's first ring, the burden off his back, Kendrick Perkins, inexplicably starting every game of the finals, despite people on the heat being like, are they going to bench him? Cause this really isn't working. I mentioned how they kind of discovered their small ball identity. I'm kind of surprised nobody took that team as iconic as it is. And then we get to the back-to-back Lakers teams of 2010, the revenge against Boston in just a great way. I mean, it's like a grueling seven game series per though. They never lost the series when getting up for a starting five is together. They're down 13 in that game. Game seven, the Lakers are, and they come back to it. They come back six for 24 Kobe. Yes. I actually prefer the previous year's team 2009, which is they beat the magic. The fish has a couple crazy threes in game four to put the, the, which the Lakers went into overtime, go up three, one. I have some haterade towards that magic team because I lost gambling money on them. Not in the finals in the, in the, in the Eastern conference, one of the, by the way, I went back and watched down the stretch on one of those threes, Stan Van Gundy is obviously the coach of that magic team. One of the threes they're up by three toward the end of regulation. The Lakers are inbounding from under their own basket. Basically the magic press, the Lakers beat the press. Derek Fisher dribbles up the right wing. Jameer Nelson is on him and just sort of doesn't really guard him. And Derek Fisher just, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just pulling up and hits a game tying three and Jeff Van Gundy on the broadcast is like apoplectic at how like Jameer Nelson screwed up. And the only thing you have to worry about is a three. Why are they not running them off the arc? It was like a little Van Gundy, Van Gundy kind of moment. I like the, the, so, so 2009 Lakers, they actually kind of struggled to beat the rockets in the second round. Gow is hurt. And TMAC has heard kind of a little line should've been easier than that. 2010 Lakers. Speaker 2 : The Lakers have the Ron, our test effect going for them. He switches from the rockets. He and Ariza basically switched places. He goes to the Lakers and he has that tip in on a Kobe air ball to beat the sons in game five of the conference files in 2010. I don't, I'm a little, is it really just the Lakers win too much? Is that, is that what happened here? How would neither of these teams get picked after the heartbreak of losing and getting humiliated by their rivals in 2008, they rally pal becomes the black Swan. They win. straight there's no love for these teams you probably should have had a californian on this podcast part of it for sure like bill well you mentioned pal that will always be it to my mind a black mark on on david stern's legacy when he showed no remorse whatsoever about permitting or forbidding trades but he acknowledged that the trade of pal where there was no market whatsoever no announced market it was not that dissimilar from uh luca being traded to the lakers uh you know there was a under the the cover of night trade by the memphis grizzlies of pal to the lakers and that was what to me ultimately gave kobe the pathway to those two two titles the grizzlies did get marcus sold it turned out to be very good turned out to be took a long time and that was at that moment it seemed like there were other players other there were definitely teams that are on record saying we had no idea that pal was going to be available and we would have jumped in 2007 spurs uh it's the ori hip check and the suspensions in game five of boris dio and amari stoudemire in the tide series against the suns that i just i got a lot of spurs teams to choose from i'm just not going to choose that one i really liked those suns teams and i wanted that series to be settled the way it should have been settled yeah that's it's it's sort of crazy to go back and imagine and and remember the spurs as like the villains you know like the the big bad spurs well they're back baby they're villains again that's right that's right they have a little bit of uh i think they still have a little bit of like like look at these kids this is it's gonna be cool it's actually one of the reasons i wanted to pick the 2026 knicks very high and i did i picked them fourth is because they did the impossible of instantly turning victor women yama the biggest curiosity and new superstar in the league until like some suddenly he was like hated by the entire fan base like i don't know well jacoby jacoby's gonna hate no a lot most of my friends locally are knicks fans because that's where i live but they're they're still being like man i really hate wendy's flopping his arms are all over the place he hit jalen brunson in the head and blah blah blah 2006 heat we talked about the free throws and just the weirdness of that series and then also not taking the 2003 spurs uh steve kerr has his moment in that in that playoff run against um against the mavs uh dirk is out for part of that series that's one of the reasons i didn't really consider them too strongly 2002 lakers we talked about that's the uh king's rivalry peaking with food poisoning and ref shenanigans oh yeah uh and uh the 2000 lakers nobody took i came close to taking them the lob from uh kobe to shack against the blazers in game seven um and we mentioned the pacers uh and uh and uh and uh and uh and uh and uh finals that year where uh kobe sprains his ankle misses game three and then carries them in game four when shack fouls out in overtime uh that that was a fun team i actually think Someone, maybe I'll raise my hand, it should have been me, either the 2000 Lakers or one of the Kobe-Powell teams should have been selected. That's an omission on our part. I had forgotten, we talked about this when you first picked that, I believe it was the 01 Lakers. I'd forgotten that Shaq won the finals MVP for all those championships. Every time. Like, to your point, there was just nothing you could do with Shaq other than foul. I mean, it was like. If he was interested, it was over. If he was locked in, and if he was in good shape, there was nothing to do. I'll confess, I had a hard, as we were processing through the draft, I had to make a judgment call on whether it was going to be the 2000 Lakers or the 21 Bucs for me. And I went for the Bucs because of the significance to the city. By the way, 2003 Spurs, I just want to revisit this real fast. Not picked. That's David Robinson and Tim Duncan's last year together. I mentioned Dirk was out. I had forgotten about Lakers, Spurs. What round is that? It's either the second round or the third round. And the Lakers are going for a four-peat in that moment. That series was tied 2-2. And Ori, playing for the Lakers at that point, not the Spurs, misses a potential game-winning three at the end of game five. I mean, it is in and out. And it's basically at the buzzer. And it would have put the Lakers up 3-2. They then go on to get rolled in game six and lose 4-2. I had forgotten about that shot. What a swing shot that is. All right, this was a fun draft. Any closing thoughts? I know you guys both have other actual work to do. Any closing thoughts on this? This is very cool. Like, because this is a big chunk of my life we're talking about. This is like half my life. Most of the part that I'm most conscious of, you know. And it was kind of awesome to go back through all these teams and to kind of trace my love for the Lakers. The love of the sport and my relationship to the sport through all these teams. It was a pure experience for me to see ours observation of reliving some of these moments, watching some of them again, going on YouTube. And honestly, for sure, this will come as no surprise. The thrill of some of the bets that I won along the way was definitely, especially that 2016 Cavs team. That one will just always be chef's kiss to me. So thank you for the opportunity. Going back through that footage house, we used to make stuff in this country. Those end up in the finals. We used to make stuff in this country, CR. Not a single statistic on the screen. Costas or Michaels just being like, and this is what we have all arrived here to see, to watch, to experience. It's like, it's poetry, man. I wish we could go back. Chris Ryan and Joe House, you can see them all over the place on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you guys for indulging me. We will have to reconvene a year from now and find something else to draft. And have fun with. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Zach Lowe. Thank you, Zach Lowe. Appreciate it. Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V. We go V. Ask your prescriber about We Go V. Some maglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WE-GO-V or visit wegovi.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Go V. Why wait? We Go V. Dirt. Sweat. Tears. Working hard can take its toll, but your relief doesn't have to. With Icy Hot Original No-Mess Roll-On, you get maximum strength, fast-acting, mess-free pain relief. So, you're ready to go again. Ice works fast. Heat makes it last. Icy Hot. You're so back. Learn more at IcyHot.com. All right, we were not planning on doing a Mets corner until after the season was over or it petered out toward the end, but we have a controversy in Mets Nation. I was at Pete Alonzo's first return game, which was quite an experience. We can talk about that if you want. Just an unbelievable welcome back by the fans to him. I was not at the second one, in which he did what was so anticipated, what I was hoping to see, hit his 300th home run, and it was a big one. A game-tying, ninth-inning, solo home run. The Mets would go on to lose in extra innings in a way that only they would lose, allowing a standing, inside-the-park, three-run home run to someone on the Orioles who I had never heard of. So, Pete Alonzo hit a home run that very much swung the game from a Mets win to a Mets loss, and yet the Mets fans, on day 10, on day two, cheered not only Pete Alonzo, but cheered that very act, that 300th home run, so much that a road team player, a visiting player, got a curtain call at what used to be his home field. And I'm going to tell you, Sean, before I tee you up, I had an actual friend, a human person who I knew and worked with for a long time, tweet at me that I was displaying, he's a Mets fan, season ticket holder, tweet at me that I was displaying, quote, loser behavior by being happy that Pete Alonzo had hit a home run. What say you about the curtain call? I wish we hadn't found ourselves in this situation this season. I feel that it is fine to applaud Pete on the home run as a celebration of 300. I would not have applauded for the curtain call. And that's not, in an effort to undermine my appreciation for Pete Alonzo, who's a player who I've loved, who we've had a chance to talk about quite a bit since we've been doing this segment. I found the most egregious thing that happened over the course of the last 48 hours to be booing Jonah Tong for walking Pete Alonzo in game one. I found that to be spiteful behavior from a fan base that is very understandably aggrieved about what its front office did over the off season. But Jonah Tong, we should not be booed. That's absurd. Jonah Tong may be an important part of the future of the team and I don't appreciate that. The curtain call is a little much. I do think that we made our point as fans, but I'm very happy for Pete for getting 300 and there is something poetic about him getting 300 at Citi Field. But I root for the Mets. You know, I am a team fan. I'm not an individual player fan. And I think actually the individual player fandom is a bit of an insidious thing over the last 25 years of sports fandom. And ultimately I root for the Mets. And I don't want to see the Mets lose. And what puts this in some interesting relief right now, Zach, is that the Mets probably should continue to lose. So I felt a tremendous amount of mixed emotions. The other thing that complicated this was I was not watching it live because I was at a screening of the movie Resident Evil. And I was following the game on my phone and via text with you. And you know who is sitting to my left? Mallory Rubin. It's Mallory Rubin's 40th birthday today. One of my dearest friends who I love. And she has taken Pete Alonzo from us. And she got to cackle with glee after she learned that he hit 300. And then later there was an inside the park home run that led her team to victory. So just a wild night of emotions for me with the Mets and Pete and Mallory. - So my wife is traveling this week to give you just the LOL Mets version of this. And I, so I had queued up to watch in my life. My wife will never watch this. I can't wait till I'm done with all my work at 9:30, 10:00 PM. I'm going to sit back and watch Obsession. And I delayed it and delayed it because the game was so goddamn exciting that I was like, I got to watch this game. Lindor could come up at any time and hit his 300th home run. You never know what's going to happen. And then the inside the park home run happens at like 10:25 PM Eastern time. I've missed my window. I'm old and I'm tired. I don't have a two hour movie in me at 10:30 PM. And I'm sitting there being like, I cannot believe I postponed my movie viewing for this, for an inside the park home run. For AJ Ewing to crash. Into the wall and Carson Benji wants Soto to leave them there to die while a tall dude just lopes around the faces for an inside the park home run. Okay. We actually disagree fairly vehemently on a couple of things. Number one, I was at the Tong game and at least in my section, the booze were like playful booze. There was a lot of, oh, come on, man. We know we can't, we, we all agree what we want to see here. We want to see him swing away. But at least in my section, it was not negative. Jeering like actual nasty booze that should hurt Jonah Tongs feelings. It was more like, oh, come on. I get that. I understand that. I still don't like it. I'm just being honest. You don't have to. I still don't like Jonah Tongs. 22. Like I let's try to just be signed on for the young pitcher. You know, he's going to be okay. I think Alonzo is going to be just fine. That's the thing is he's sitting on $160 million in Baltimore. So he doesn't need our sympathy either. He's fine. Look, all I'm saying is in my set, I can only speak from the experience of people around me. It was more good natured and playful razzing. Then, then that's it. Yeah. And then the fire Stearns variant, which has broken out over and over again. Yes. I am completely okay with the curtain call. I would have participated in the curtain call. I do not understand this slice of Mets fandom that you are not in. That is like all of you people are fake idiot fans for standing up and giving this guy. I know you don't, but I would have stood up and given the curtain call. call and here's why this is the perfect storm of events the team is out of contention the game is meaningless you in fact had me looking at i discovered something today because of you that tankathon has a major league baseball lottery simulator what fun and you're damn right i spun it until the mets got the number one pick even though you could give me a million guesses on who the number one pick is going to be and i would never get one of the two names nor i um this is an absolutely beloved homegrown player the all-time leader in franchise home runs that everyone i mean you couldn't find a fan you i'm sure there's some sterns fanboy nerdy analytics people nerdier than me and you who are like no this is what happens with first baseman when they turn age 32 suddenly the bat speed goes away all this a lot of voice work from you in this episode all this guy does is play every game you know who plays no game games Jorge Polanco plays no games plays zero games the first baseman the Mets plays no games not even you and i contributed about as much as Jorge Polanco did to this season and all he does is hit and everyone wanted him back he wanted to come back in fact i would say the underneath all the adulation at the game i went to was a layer of sadness among the fans even it seemed among there was a wistfulness even to pete alonso's presence at the game which like i think everyone kind of agrees this was a mistake and would go back and do it differently so you put that together with the fact that it's a milestone home run i can cheer i can curtain call pete hitting a game tying home run and cheer for him and still cheer for the Mets to win the game which is what i did staying up to not watch the movie obsession because they give up a freaking inside the park home run i can do all those things was get out of here with this you're a fake fan blah blah it's the team or nothing we are human beings we go for it and we're going to win the game and we're going to win the moments. That was a moment. And boy, I'll tell you, John, that bat, that wasn't a bad flip. That bat hurl had, that was aimed right at David Stern's face. That was a metaphorical laser beam at the, all the rage and anger. And that's what I mean by sadness. He's pissed. He should be pissed. He should have finished his career as a Met. He, you were texting me today. He should be hitting his 300th and 400th and God willing 500th home run as a Met. Instead, it's like, all right, our all-time home run leader has half the number of home runs of Aaron judge. Great. I think sadness is the right, right term. I think, you know, you made that point to me last night. And, um, it's, it's, it's genuinely depressing to think about. And I'm so interested in the aftermath of all this and we can save some of that conversation for a week from now when the season is over, but this was a very, very ballsy off season by David Stearns. And he came up snake eyes. There's just no, there's no two ways about it. He made a lot of big choices and those choices. There's either one of two things is going to happen. Now, this generation of homegrown players aided and abetted by a couple of very big superstars who are on the team for long-term are going to either lead this team to the promised land or David Stearns is going to be probably the most hated executive in Met's history. And there's probably not an in-between. I think even if this team goes on to the playoffs three or four seasons in a row now, but never wins. I think there are fans who have convinced themselves at least that they would have preferred to have watched Pete Alonzo cross milestones that we've never seen a hit or cross in baseball history. And the Mets have been around now for 65 years. I mean, this is a real, it's becoming a storied franchise. It didn't used to be, it was an expansion team for years. The, the, the, the wall Mets existed for a long time as this sort of young team. Now, this is a team with a lot of history and not a lot of impressive records. And what I worry about is that Pete is our generation's team. And I worry about the fact that we're going to have a lot of history and not a lot of history. And when I was a kid, all I heard about was trading Tom Seaver and Tom Seaver leaving the team. And what a black mark that was, what a joke that made the Mets that that would be that they would trade Tom Seaver. And that we very easily with the richest owner in the sport could have resigned Pete Alonzo. And we didn't do it. And we didn't do it for reasons that I understand. But when you do the math in your head and you're like, okay, we paid Frankie Montas $18.5 million this year to contribute nothing. We paid Jorge Polanco $20 million this year to contribute nothing. We paid Boba Shett $42 million this year to have a league average season. We paid Sean Mania $25 million this year to be a number five starter. Add the totals up from we paid Marcus Simeon $25 million a year to be the worst position player in the sport. Put all that money together from just this one season that we paid out one season. That's about seven eighths of the entirety of the Pete Alonzo contract. And that's baseball. That's how baseball works. So it is crushing to think about it in that way. When you think about the amount of time and effort and thought that was put into whether or not to extend Alonzo that deal and to not give it to him and the way in which all of those resources were allocated just this year, it's hard to accept. He's going to keep on hitting. Look, I just wanted to bring you on to do our version of the curtain call ethics question. And I am fine with it. I've become actually more forgiving of this experience has actually made me more forgiving of what you might call fair, whether fandom or intermittent fandom or something like I'm cool with it. Like I didn't boo. I didn't boot tongue. I didn't boo. I didn't chant fire sterns. That's just not my style. I, if you want to chant that, that's fine. Like we'll see how the young guys work out next year, but I didn't want to see, it was just me and my daughter. I didn't want, like, I don't want to behave. I wouldn't behave like that anyway, but I didn't want to do that in front of her. We had a great time. She had a great time. And I'll tell you for, Oh, first of all, Mania Mania was the lead complainer. I want to talk about that. Yeah. I'm interested in this. So, so here, here's my theory on Mania. He's, he's mad. He's clearly mad at the fans. So he's not a met anymore. Pete's not a many, but I love Pete. It's not a man anymore. We're the Mets. We work our ass off. I think he's really mad that that home run cost him a win because they had to take him out after five and a third innings. Cause when he gets into the sixth inning, he turns into me and you throwing pitches. I think he's just mad that he didn't get a win. And I frankly don't really want to hear from Sean Mania about his take on how the fans should or shouldn't behave. It's such a paradox because does it speak well or ill? The fans, if players are reluctant, if players don't like that, and does that make them, does that make players not want to play in New York or play for the Mets? Like, that's the only thing I'm thinking about in that prism is if you're more worried as a member of the Mets, whether or not the curtain calls will be reserved only for visiting players who are formally on the team reputationally, that is odd. And as you said, it's very unusual for that sort of thing to happen. And it's usually reserved for people who have beaten terrible illnesses or who have done something socially that they're, they're, they broke through the culture in some way or someone like Cal Ripken kind of crossing a record of games played. You don't usually just see a rival player who beats you get a curtain call, but he's not a rival player. That's the whole point. And what I would say to Sean, what I would say, which to Sean Mania is it's not that meant fans or any fans like opposing players or rival players, you know, who they like players who do awesome stuff for their team and beat a lot of them. And so I think that's, I think that's Lonzo did more awesome stuff for his team in seven years than like most of the Mets roster has combined other than the best players on the team. You know what it speaks to really quickly, though? I do think it speaks to something that I am as guilty of as any Mets fan, which is that sometimes we like to revel in our own failure. And the idea of applauding an opposing player allows us to loudly point out the organizational failures that have brought us to this place. Of course, that's part of the perfect storm. And there's a gratification in that. And it is poetic that, you know, he showed up to the schedule makers, put it on the schedule for this time in the year, and that it aligned perfectly with, of course, as he always does, hitting somewhere between 35 and 40 home runs that he would hit cross 300 at this time. But there is something in the fan base. And you know what? The other thing I want to say that I think is true, and you can tell me since you were at game one, the fans have been really good for the Mets for the last three or four weeks. They've been really positive. They've been really supportive of the young players on the team. And they played a pretty good brand of baseball. About 500 baseball, but they played a pretty good brand of baseball. And this felt like a lot of the fans who got really mad in July, myself included, who were just like, fine, I'll come back this weekend to boo everybody who's in the building because I fucking hate them because they ruined my summer. As opposed to the people who were showing up the previous few weeks who were like, I'm kind of excited about A.J. Ewing, and I'm kind of excited about Zach Thornton, and I'm kind of excited about whatever happens when Jefferson Rojas comes up or whomever. Oh, my God. I'm just, I'm following Mets minor league accounts, Billy Amick's hitting home runs every day. Can't you be both? Can't you want to celebrate a franchise icon and in doing so, vent a little bit of frustration? But also, like, I was mad because I went into one of the clubs to say hi to our mutual friend, David Sims, who was at the game. Oh, yeah. When A.J. Ewing hit his solo home run, and my daughter loves Ewing and Benj. I love Ewing and Benj. I'm like, yeah, I want these guys to do well, too. Just, it's complicated. I realize. But by the way, just a couple of, I have to share my sentimental father-daughter notes before we go. I got her out of bed when Pete hit the home run. I knew she wasn't going to be asleep because I had just put her to bed recently enough that she would still be awake. And she, I mean, ran gleefully into the office to watch the replay with me. And I think I would have woken her up if Lindor had hit it. And that would have been a real wake up if Lindor had hit his 300th. And we were watching the game earlier. You said you weren't watching the game. There was a Lindor little infield chopper that was a bang-bang play at first. And he was called out. The Mets challenged it or it was reviewed or whatever. It was a long review. and during the long review for two straight minutes the camera is on alonzo and lindor these two former teammates for five years having a wonderful conversation they're laughing they're smiling they're hiding some some portions of the conversation with their glove of their arms they're putting their their shoulder bumping each other having fun and my daughter just looks at me she goes oh my gosh daddy look at them look at them and i was like yeah look at them it's really sad look that is really sad to think about because that i mean those were our two guys for the last four years those were our guys those were the dudes they seem to get along and like each other the whole time too they never really had drama and so i don't know man it's it's hard to think about i'm glad you had a good experience with your daughter and it's wonderful that you've given her this team but what were you thinking giving her this team no it's part of life and it's going to be great all right sean fennessey go back to your regular job in a week or two we will debrief all the good stuff that's happened and there's been a lot of it to the mets in the last couple of months and since the trade deadline and everything that needs to happen for this team to have a better season next season the big picture projections newsletter uh sean fennessey you're the man thanks brother all right that's it for today's edition of the zach lowe show thank you to chris ryan joe house and sean fennessey for their very valuable time thanks as always to billy mike and jonathan on production thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the zach lowe show we'll be back next week as usual with new episodes we're inching toward the nba season we'll be there soon 21 or over and president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 and over in president dc kentucky or wyoming gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in connecticut or is it md gambling help.org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text hope ny in new york for louisiana call 1-877-770-7867 this episode is brought to you by whole foods market now this is a player in the food space that has championed winning food standards and quality since 1980 that means no added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat and no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in their deli meats hot dogs or sausages plus all their seafood is responsibly farmed or wild caught they've even banned some ingredients storewide to make sure there's nothing to mess with the flavors you want shop whole foods market in store or online this episode is brought to you by chat gpt hey it's bill simmons from the bill simmons podcast have you guys heard about chat gpt work it's the new way to use chat gpt for bigger multi-step projects and when you need more than just answers give chat gpt work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets slides and structured reports get started at chat gpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans