Dr. Labib Ghulmiyyah: How to Improve Sperm Count and Fertility Naturally

For me, I always say health span starts in the womb because the maternal environment is what the feet environment is. It's going to be your early stages of life and then eventually your adult diseases. One percent year over year reduction in sperm count, two percent year over year reduction in fertility rates. You start to combine these statistics. One percent doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize, okay, well, 10 years or down 10 percent. If you look at the sperm come dropping and at the same time you see for example the production of plastic and other chemicals is going up. Small, those are just that can accumulate and cause problems with time. What are some of the must-haves or must-dos that society, men and women both need to be engaged in on a regular basis? So I think it's always a good opportunity to. What if I told you that the health of your future child is being decided right now before you even conceive? Today's guest is someone I met halfway around the world in Saudi Arabia at the Zinos Long Jeviti Summit. We recorded a podcast there and it got so much traction we had to bring him back to finish the conversation. Dr. Labib is a board certified OBGYN specializing in maternal fetal medicine, fertility, and women's health. But what makes him different is how he approaches pregnancy, not as a 280 day event, but as a thousand day journey that starts long before conception and extends throughout the first two years of a baby's life. In this episode we're diving into the fertility crisis no one's talking about plummeting sperm counts, rising miscarriage rates, and why lifestyle, not just genetics, is programming the next generation. We're also getting into the black box warning, the FDA just lifted on hormone replacement therapy, why 50 million women needlessly suffered and how migration, stress, and even sleep debt are secretly sabotaging fertility. This is for the young couples trying to conceive. The parents who want healthy resilient kids and anyone who wants to understand how the first thousand days of life set the stage for longevity. So welcome to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, Human Biologist Gary Breka and today we're going down the road of fertility, pregnancy, hormones, and how to give your kids the ultimate shot at a long healthy life. Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, Human Biologist Gary Breka, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today we're actually catering to those young couples trying to conceive, looking at how they have a healthy pregnancy and listen up, men, it's not just for the ladies anymore. I have a doctor here today to talk about how couples can prepare for pregnancy, fertility, healthy sperm counts, and really healthy, happy babies that are going to live a long time. And we're going to go down the road of nutrition, pregnancy, wellness. I'm so excited for this podcast. We actually started this podcast in Saudi Arabia. We were short on time and we had so many positive comments that I brought this guest back today. So welcome back to the podcast, Dr. LeBeeb Goma. Thank you, Gary. Thank you. I'm so ready excited for round two of the discussion. Yeah, so am I. And ironically, we both live in Miami. Exactly. So I don't know why we did the sign. We should do it again. I don't know why we did the podcast in Saudi Arabia. We had to go halfway around the world. But we were both at the Zeno's Long Jebadi Summit. It was amazing summit. I mean, that side of the world is really waking up to wellness, longevity. It's just astounding what's going on over there with development and their commitment to health and wellness and keeping people out of the system. But I really enjoyed the podcast that felt like we were just getting into the meat. And then we had to cut the time short. So I'm really excited to run this with you today. You know, I remember you talking about this pregnancy being a thousand days of pregnancy. You know, the 365 days plus another 700 days. And you know, I'm concerned about, you know, fertility rates, the drop in sperm counts, you know, when when I was at a Mahaha meeting recently. And they were talking about the 1% year over year reduction in sperm count, 2% year over year reduction in fertility rates. And you start to combine these statistics. 1% doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize, okay, well, in 10 years, we're down 10% in sperm count. And another possibly 20% in fertility. And what do you think is the biggest contributor to these things? Well, I think lifestyle is absolutely a risk factor for how sperm counts are dropping. If you look at the sperm count dropping and at the same time, you see, for example, the production of plastic and other chemicals is going up. So one curve is coming down. One is going up. I mean, it's probably a contributing factor, maybe not the only factor, but there is something there that is fire happening. The sperm counts are dropping. And also we're seeing more miscarriages. We're seeing more couples going to artificial reproductive technologies like IVF. Not only-- And that's not an easy process. Yes, it is. It is a complicated process. But today, there's more advanced technology that would probably make it easier on couples. But again, it is time consuming, it's stressful, it would cause anxiety. And then plus, you have the women grow through testing, injections, the retrieval process, and all of that. And then, of course, then you have the pregnancy, which could sometimes be twins and triplets, which makes things more complicated. Yeah, you can't get pregnant. Then all of a sudden, it's like, bam, there's three for you. Exactly. So a lot of people criticize and say, oh, people are going to IVF very quickly. They're not being patient, but there is more infertility out there. And I think you mentioned the thousand days. Yes, the pregnancy is 280 days, 40 weeks. But I call it the thousand days because there's the before, which is super important. Yeah. And then the pregnancy itself, the two eight. And then the first two years of life, which I think dictates a lot of our biology and how we're going to become, you know, later on, if we're going to develop diseases. So even the first two years of life, whether you're being breastfed, whether depending on what you're eating, what are you being exposed to in the first two years of life, your epigenetics will change. And this is where the biology is, you know, programmable in the best way. Of course, we can change things later on. But the earlier you do it, the better you're going to be able to cope with life and the stresses of life and all of that. Yeah. You know, I have this theory that in this whole longevity, biohacking, anti-aging movement, what I've seen is kind of an underlying theme. Nobody really talks about is a lot of what we're doing is just getting back to the basics, whole food diet, sleep, mobility, sunlight, grounding, you know, sense of community, sense of purpose. And if couples are listening to this podcast right now, and I really would encourage, especially young couples that are trying to conceive to listen to this, you know, I've, I've two kids that are coming into this age. My son, Cole, he's 25, and he's getting married in September, and he and his fiance have been together a long time and he's starting to have this conversation. And, you know, I know there's a lot of people in their peer group. My daughter's 27, and she's starting to think about this too. So this is something that's very near and dear to my heart. And so for young couples that are listening to this, you know, I think that we think of pregnancy and conception and birth and what happens to the the fetus and the child during this two year period as largely being the woman's role, right? She gets pregnant. She has the baby. She cares for the baby. She breast feeds the baby. But I liked what we began to talk about in Saudi because you were really talking about it as a couple's journey. And like the contribution that men can make to ensuring or at least increasing the odds that they have really healthy, happy, amazing children with strong immune systems that are really prepared for life's journey. So I wonder if we could back up a little bit from the event of pregnancy and so talk about this road to a healthy pregnancy for young couples, men and women. I think what your son Cole is doing is super important. He's, you know, talking about it and preparing for it. And I think you are also excited to become a grandfather. Although, although you don't look like one, but I think it's not only the parents, the grandparents also get excited. And I think I haven't felt this yet, but I'm sure the feeling of a grandfather or having son of a son or a daughter of that probably gives you the lot more joy in life. And so weird because I never want to be a grand dad. And I'm like so excited to be. It just makes me sound old. No, I'm a few old. And Lebanon, we say like the son of the son is more precious than your son. I think the next generation is so important. So that's how I think we need to take care of ourselves before going to that journey. So preparing is super important. And yes, the dad gives half of the genetic material. Right. So how come, you know, people say he doesn't have a role. He has a huge role. I think 50% of the genes are from the dad. So therefore it's super important for the dad to be in a good health. Right. The problem is that when we're 20, 25, we think we're invincible. Nothing's going on. Oh, my son doesn't think he can be killed by a bullet right now. So we might not be careful. And I think a lot of people just go with the flow, you know, maybe get into a drinking, exploring things in life, which is fine. But I think when you're ready for the pregnancy, you need to back up a little bit, go back to the basics. What our ancestors did in the past. Today we're doing the same thing like you said, but maybe with more advanced technology and trying to get results a bit faster. But, you know, thinking of your nutrition, your sleep, your energy levels, your focus, coming all these, if you work on few things, you don't have to work on all of your pillars. And actually, this is where I thought about what I call the vitality formula. And for me, that's basically a very small, simple approach because people get overwhelmed. I'm fatigued, I'm not healthy, I'm broke. And actually, those are only signals that your body is telling you about. And you need to start working on one of those pillars. If you work on your sleep, your nutrition, all at the same time, initially you might not get good results. So I think starting on one pillar at a time, and then maybe stacking them together at some point. And that's how you will change your lifestyle. But this should be for men and women, because they're uniting their, you know, their gonads and their sperm and their eggs in order to create a human. So you have to prepare in order to prepare such a miracle. And, you know, I like some of the simple advice I want to hit, touch on some of those that I know you've spoken about, but moderate exercise, resistance training, something you call the critical window, six months of consistent exercise, actually showing measurable improvements in sperm count, sperm motility, morphology of sperm, and reducing DNA fragmentation. So this is like new even for someone like me that, that male, a young man can have that much influence over the caliber of his sperm, which obviously is 50% of the way to creating this human life. So, you know, talking specifically to the men, what are some things that young men can do, stop drinking probably right off the bat, and then the obvious drug smoking, but, you know, maybe limit it or discontinue the drinking, but to have the healthiest sperm, you know, you hear, well, you shouldn't get into a hot tub, and, you know, you probably shouldn't be an ultra endurance athlete, which, Sally, for my son, Cole is not a, it's not going to want to hear that, he's running a hundred miles, and like 10 days, he's doing the 10 Iron Man at the end of the year, but he, so we'll do it next year. But, you know, if young men are listening to this, like, what are, you know, some simple shifts that they can make, to really sort of prepare their body to be producing healthy sperm that, you know, improve the morphology sperm count motility. The sperm is the output of what your endocrine organ, which is the test is produced. So, it's going to reflect a lot of, if there's inflammation in your body, if you're not sleeping well, you know, you have high insulin levels, if you're not hydrated well, all this is going to show up. So, for me, sperm count is like kind of one of the vital signs of our body. I tell a lot of my, you know, friends or like patients that, you know, get tested, do a sperm count. You can do a home sperm count. I know there's the guidelines don't, you know, recommend a certain age, but why not? Why not see where you are? Because you don't want to be surprised later on when you're ready to have kids. Check your sperm count. If it's good, it means you're doing the right things. If it's starting to get worse, maybe you need to look back at your lifestyle and start, you know, changing things. Like you said, hot tops, putting your laptop on your, you know, lap for hours and hours, because of all this, you know, emission that comes out in the heat. Our cell phones are in our pockets a lot of times. But I think toxins and what we're eating, what we're putting in our bodies on our skin, because, you know, men are using more person care products today. So, everything can play a role. Yeah. It accumulates. Those small doses of toxins can accumulate and become cumulative. So, you don't have to be poisoned by mercury or lead to get affected. You can have small doses that can accumulate and cause problems with time. Yeah. So, definitely exercising, we know how much it will decrease the inflammation, improve your insulin, your muscle mass, all this, who are reflect on what's coming out of your body. That's so good. Which is sperm. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of women, I'm a big fan of generic methylation testing. And I've been pounding that soapbox for years. But there is a correlation between gene mutations in women, especially like MTHFR and frequency of miscarriage and even infertility and certain birth defects. And I won't say that they're causal, but they're certainly a high correlation. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast. And then there's what I share with my inner circle. And I've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak. And you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. 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So would you recommend that young women get methylation testing and then maybe start to address some of those methylation deficiencies by supplementation or dietary changes? If I answered this question, a lot of people are going to also put me in the controversy standpoint, but I do agree with you that yes, those could play a role. They're not maybe the major thing. If you go by the guidelines today of our, you know, a cog and other thing, they do not recommend to do those on everyone, even with women that have miscarriages. But again, I think it's logical. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, the studies, you know, could be not well designed. So you can criticize a lot of those things. If it's a simple test and can make a difference and the treatment is, you know, for late or or or or exchanging their diet, why not be in certain situations? Yeah. So I wouldn't say test everybody today. I mean, I next year if I come back to your podcast, I might say differently. But today based on what data we have, I wouldn't like screen everyone, but yes, maybe someone with, you know, multiple miscarriages, a family history of neurodifacts. We might, you know, check those, but not across the board. I would definitely supplement them and make sure you know, they are well, their nutrition has enough for late calling omega three, all these things in order to improve the outcome of the practice. Yeah, I'm going to listen to podcast show notes, some of the supplements or at least key nutrients that you talk about for sperm quality zinc, Selenium, methylated B vitamins, huge fan, methylfolate, omega threes. Any oxen is like C and E and coaguten and lycopene. Which is like in tomatoes and watermelon bell peppers. What's lycopene's role in improving sperm quality? That's kind of a new one. They're also a very important antioxidant. So anything that could lower your oxidation will improve how the DNA or how the sperm is, you know, multiply and divide. And that will have less fragmentation. Of course, the data is not robust on, you know, just lycopene supplementation, but it comes as part of the multi nutrient or the rainbow that man and woman should eat in order to improve their gametes. I love this idea of couples going into this and coming out of this together. Right. I mean, I have three children and I can tell you when we are first child at 27. And, you know, I really did view this as really being my wife's role at the time. And not really realizing the impact that I could have had and grace of God, we had three very healthy children and they're all doing amazing as adults. But, you know, I wish I'd had this information then because I was already doing some of those things was fairly healthy. I wasn't drinking a lot of it was exercising. I was eating a pretty decent diet, but you know, had I had I known this, I think, you know, would have been a little different going through this with my wife at the time to as a couple instead of it being such a unilateral journey. Yeah. I think also to simplify things, we don't want couples to worry much about about this and cause anxiety. But today, you know, we're we're living in a toxin and a soup of toxins. So we have to be more careful. Maybe in our ancestors didn't worry much about this because they were, you know, having healthier food less processed food less toxins. But today there is some there's an enemy that's hitting us. So we have to be careful. Men and women before during and then especially after the pregnancy, I think the support from the men helping you know raise the kid all the habits that we have. There's a lot of studies after the fall. Father is athletic and he likes sports. Your kids automatically will mimic and we'll see things that we do at home. - Yeah, that's amazing. - So it's like some kind of genetic programming that you know where characteristics are passed on. And even though you can't point to this gene causes you to have this outcome. If you have this gene, you're gonna like sports. If you like to have this gene, you're gonna be more cerebral or leprear into right brain. But it is kind of fascinating how characteristics are passed from generation to generation. And I'm actually been reading and studying about trauma even being passed from generation to generation embedded in our, you know, our genetics, which is really fascinating. - Yeah, trauma stress, all these, you know, change how our genes are expressing. And if you're pregnant during that time and you're under so much stress, then this could affect, you know, because for me, I always say health span starts in the womb. - Hmm. - So it even starts before birth. So wherever the mom is feeling, if she's chronically stressed and she's not happy, this will reflect into the blood flow to the placenta and therefore nutrients will be less, you know, given to the baby and then their genes are gonna be expressed in a different way. So when they're born, they might be born at a lower weight than they're supposed to be and this is gonna, you know, lead to other chronic maybe diseases later on. So yeah, everything is related. And the more you read, the more you learn, the less you know, you know. It's so complicated how the genes interact among each other. We are what our environment is. So I think it's, it goes both way. Whatever we give our environment, it gives us back. And I think that that relationship we should control because the maternal environment is what the fit environment is. And it's gonna be your early stages of life and then eventually your adult diseases. Yeah. Today we talk a lot about trying to live, you know, longer or healthier, better. And we, most of people start in their 40s or 50s. Oh, today I want to start living better and you know, whatever I've done in the past, let's forget it. No, I mean, I know we have to prepare for our, you know, last 10 years or marginal decades that a lot of experts talk about. This is important. But I think starting early and I see a shift, the new generation, the new generation are more health conscience than what maybe we were. So I'm happy that there's more, you know, awareness of that. But simplifying things, not complicating things, not causing anxiety, empowering women and men and couples. Anybody that wants to have a kid, even if you're going through IVF or egg freezing, you wanna freeze your eggs to maybe later on use them. Also, you have to go through that process, make sure your gutter has freezing your eggs. Of course, of course. You know, I really love this concept. So, you know, prepping for the pregnancy, then you conceive. And where do you fall on supplementation during the actual pregnancy, methylated multivitamins or, you know, methylated prenatals or non-methyl-prenatals? I don't wanna put words in your mouth. You know, for a woman to be supplementing with during that time of pregnancy for adhesion and healthy fetal growth, where do you fall on that? Well, there's a couple of, you know, nutrients that are super important, including iron, for example. I think that's the number one metal that, you know, people think about because the placenta needs iron. The baby needs iron. The, the, the, the color of the placenta. Exactly, yeah. And the, and the woman's blood volume almost doubles, you know, during pregnancy. So, she becomes a little bit anemic or what we call hemodilution. So, you're gonna need, you know, more iron for multiple things in pregnancy. So, iron is number one. If you are iron deficient or you have an issue with your iron absorption or metabolism, you will have a higher risk of developing a smaller baby what we call fetal growth restriction. So, iron is, is key, especially if you don't get it in your diet or you're not absorbing it well. And then, of course, you have the B vitamins, which are basic frameworks for DNA synthesis. You have to have those. Vitamin D, there's a lot of data about vitamin D levels and developing diabetes and pregnancy preeclampsia. Of course, it's important for the bone. So, vitamin D is, actually, it's considered like a hormone. So, vitamin D is super important. But again, you know, you have to supplement the right amounts. So, checking labs, supplementing them with the right dose or the good quality supplement. If you can give them those through a diet, it'll be even better, absolutely. Unfortunately, the diet is not always available for everyone to have the optimum levels in pregnancy. So, that's why we have to supplement. So, yeah, a good prenatal vitamins that have those, including coline, the EHA for brain development. All of those are important today. To take the right supplement, I think in the very near future, and I think there's a couple of companies now working on like a very specific tailored prenatal for every single patient. So, for example, a woman might not need that much vitamin D, but she needs more iron, she needs more coline. So, based on testing on neutral genomics, we can tailor a specific supplement for Mrs. X instead of us taking the same multivitamin across the board. Yeah, yeah, that's another thing. I think this is coming very soon. I think it makes sense. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. If you don't have the example of the MTHF armutation, you might not need, let's say, that much folates versus someone who has it, for example. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, you know what, I've read a lot of literature around vaginal versus cesarean section delivery. And I know it's confusing around this, just people have fallen, they both can, so people say it doesn't matter at all. There are OBGYNs like the one that was, or is our clinic director that's a big believer in trying to have a vaginal birth to the extent that you can? And a lot of that has to do with how the fetus is inoculated through the vaginal canal. Where do you fall in that conundrum of cesarean versus vaginal birth? And if there was a preference, you know? What you'll find, my straight answer is the way we're supposed to be born is vaginal. Like that, I think. That's how God created us. But of course, with advancement in science, cesarean became available and they do save a lot of lives. They can make a huge difference in certain situations. But the goal is always to try to have a normal delivery. As long as it's safe for the mom and safe for the baby, this is the way to go because there's a lot of benefits from the way the baby moves in the canal, all these cardinal movements of labor. And then eventually the inoculation from the vaginal flora, the skin to skin touching that happens. There's definitely a lot of benefits. Otherwise, I don't think God would have created us to deliver that way. Right, right. I mean, but the C-sections have a role. And I think, like I said, they save lives. But the problem is like everything in medicine, people abuse them. And I think a lot of people are more convenient. For convenience, for the patient, I'm not talking about doctors. I mean, I've done plenty of C-sections, but those were done for indications. But a lot of times, the patients would come to use a look, I want the C-section because I don't want to go through labor. It's a long process. I don't want to keep my pelvic floor healthy because I heard vaginal delivery can cause damage to my pelvic floor. And we know if it's done the right way, the right timing, it will not cause sexual dysfunction or other things. And yes, it is a stressful time. You will rehab eventually your pelvic muscles through special treatments and therapies with specialists. But it's way less risky than a C-section. At the end of C-section is a surgery. So there is bleeding infection. You could injure organs. So we keep C-sections when it's needed. And I, you know, my message to people don't abuse it. Yeah. Not just because you want to deliver on a certain day of the year. Yeah, I want to pick the birthday. Yeah, I want to deliver on the 16th to 2 o'clock in the afternoon and you can now. Yeah, because one C-section after another is going to lead to more complications. Now we know after, let's say, a third C-section, if you have an issue with your placenta, you can end up having what we call placenta, acrita. And that can lead to death and complications. So C-sections are great when needed. But our ultimate goal is to deliver normally in a safe way for the mom and for the baby. That's, I agree with any physician. And I think this is the oath that we swear by to make sure moms are safe and babies are safe. Without being heroic and then using the C-section when needed. Right. And so you go through this birth process and then you have this brand new fetus in the world. For someone that has a birth that was non-vaginal that was through C-section are the things we can do to mitigate some of those consequences of having not had a vaginal birth like prebiotic or probiotic supplementation or trying to inoculate the baby's gut flora. So they're not so colloquy and have some of these other skin conditions and others. Because what's fascinating to me lately is the impact that gut microbiome has even at a fetal level. I mean, we know that adults when they do long course of antibiotics or other things that actually destroy their gut flora, they have all kinds of consequences that we don't draw back to the gut. And now we know the importance of the gut microbiome. And so if they missed that inoculation period, vaginally, are there ways for. young parents to actually supplement these kids with. I think the first step, the most important first step is to do skin to skin. I put the baby on the mom's skin and if the mom can't let's say she's in a C section and it's not feasible sometimes, then the dad. So even our skin flora can help inoculate. There are, you know, few trials, motor are doing, like inoculating the vagin flora or smearing the babies. I don't think, you know, there's any, you know, proof yet that it will make a huge difference in the long term, but those are still ongoing studies. But I think starting with the skin, putting the baby, even in the C section, they can put the baby on the mom's skin while the obstetrician is finishing the C section that will help a lot. Calm the baby's nervous system, because the baby will start hearing the mom's heartbeat, which he or she was hearing when they were in utero. So putting the baby there on the skin will improve breastfeeding chances, plus they will of course get inoculated by the mom's skin. And then dads can do it. I'm sure you've seen a lot of pictures of dads putting the kids on their chest. Of course, if they have a lot of hair too, you know, shave it so that the skin, but touching the skin to skin is so important. From the first, you know, the first minute or two minutes of life are critical. So as soon as you remove the baby, you put the baby on the mom's skin. And the C section or the normal delivery, I think that's one of the first steps that will make a huge difference. Probiotics and other things, I'm not really aware of any, you know, robust studies on that, but it makes sense is to replace, you know, whatever the probiotics needed, but nothing like the probiotics of the mom, because her vaginal flora will change based on the trimesters of pregnancy. And then at the time of the delivery, it will be exactly the composition of her bacteria will be exactly what the baby needs. That's so wild. Yeah, so supplementing with probiotics, I don't know which one, you know, that's so I don't think we're there. But maybe in the future, we can maybe test the probiotics of the mom and then tailor or create a probiotic specific and give that to the baby. Yeah. Maybe. So all these, all this precision medicine, I think, is on the way. But today, I think doing the skin to skin immediately is probably the best thing you can do for your kid. I am so proud of this pillow and let me tell you why. When I started to do the research on the amount of chemicals, glucose, synthetics, volatile organic compounds, and jet fuels that you find in pillows and mattresses, it made me sick. And those things actually will show up in your urine. This is not a petroleum-based foam pillow. This is organic wool and organic cotton. It is so comfortable and you can actually change the size by just by removing some of the wool, completely organic, made right here in the USA, head over to the ultimate snooze.com and start sleeping chemical free tonight. I had a Harvard scientist on my podcast. Actually, when we were in Dubai, and they do in his laboratory, they do these customized probiotics where they take a stool sample and they culture your flora and they look at the different strains of bacteria and which ones you're deficient in, which ones you have an excess in. And what's really fascinating was how much they could predict about the person having nothing other than their gut flora. They're their actual profile of their gut flora. Like this is somebody who gets seasonal flus, more frequently than the average. This is somebody who doesn't have a lot of endurance. This is somebody who is very likely to have skin conditions like eggs and a psoriasis. It was incredible the mapping that they've done from specific gut flora, both in excess and in deficiencies, to like these manifestations in the real world. You are what you eat. And you are what you're surrounded with, your friends, your community, you eventually blend into it. So whatever you're surrounded with becomes you. I believe the gut is so important. And especially in pregnancy because there's a lot of interaction between the gut, the vagina, the gut and the uterus. And I'm sure there's a gut placental connection somehow, which we still probably don't know about. But this is amazing to be able to, let's say tailor a specific probiotic, maybe to give to the baby eventually. So maybe we should test pregnant patients and tailor the probiotic for them so that in case they end up with a C section, we give it to the baby. I mean, I don't know. That might be a nice project. Yeah, no, let's do it. We can create. So yeah, I gotta come in soon, guys. So I think skin to skin is the best thing you can do for your kid and minute one of life. Yeah. And then in the precious important months immediately after delivery, I think the consensus is in that if you embrace feed, you should be breastfeeding. And for whatever reason, a lot of women can't either for anatomical reasons or other reasons they can't. And so now they fall back on having the feed babies formula. And I had the health and human services secretary, but I also had a gentleman named Kyle D'Amantes, who's the head of human foods at the US FDA. And one of the big focuses and projects that he's aligned with and they're really researching right now are infant formulas. And do we really need to put pro and flammatory seed oils in as the, you know, soul means or major means of fat of these, you know, these fatty acids. So if a woman has to a camp press feed for whatever reason, you know, I know a lot of the young pregnant women, especially in my sir, I've got two of my company right now. And you know, they're ordering their infant formulas from Europe. Because they've gone down the rabbit hole of the research and they're like, they're just better quality formulations there. So I've got a lot of research seed oil free and here there's some regulatory guidelines that force different ingredients to have to be in there because that's to meet a certain profile. So where do you fall in infant formula and is there, I've seen both sides of the spectrum, you know, Dr. Barbara or Neil or she's not doctor, but Barbara or Neil saying, well, I'm very close to mother's milk and then I've had other people say that there's nothing wrong with infant formulas. I'll say that you should only get it from Europe. I don't think there's anything like the breast milk because like, you know, the vaginal microbiome, for example, the microbiome, your milk consistency changes, you know, perth. So if you deliver, let's say at 27 weeks, the consistency of the milk that comes out is going to be different than if you deliver a term. So it's made in a way to give the baby what the baby needs at that age. Oh, wow. Yes, the antibodies that are in it, there's no way a formula can mimic breast milk. And unfortunately, yes, like you said, there might be a lot of things added to the milk to make it maybe more tasty for the baby that might be hurting. I'm not an expert on other pediatrician, so I cannot comment that, but yes, my to go first is milk is breast milk. The other option, of course, to try to get the least amount of, you know, formula that's not inflammatory or causes gas. And you can know, like, for example, in my experience, my wife rest fed for three months, then she couldn't anymore. So we moved to formula. We had to change 10 formulas in order for the kid to not have gas and colleagues. So, which is not normal to have, you know, colleagues and why that severe colleagues. So it might be one formula not working for that specific kid, but yeah, the world of formula is a huge problem. A lot of hospitals are shying away from having formulas on board. Some hospitals used to give away formulas on discharge. Right. A lot of them stopped that because, you know, they don't want to promote those formulas. So it's a difficult situation, but again, the first two years of life, if you give the baby those inflammatory components, you're going to make things worse. Try to find the most natural, you know, way, there are, you know, donor milks that, you know, women donate some milk, it could be maybe a better option. Not everybody accepts those. But yeah, breastfeeding should not be difficult. I think putting too much pressure on the woman is going to make her maybe not like to breastfeed or social pressure. By doing skin to skin in the first minute will improve your breastfeeding rates. I've seen it firsthand. A patient telling me, I don't want a breastfeed. Please don't even open the subject. I don't even tell me the benefits I know I'm doing formula from minute one. And then I remember we're doing rounds and the baby was in the room. And the pediatrician was talking to the woman and she's like, can I try something and just put this baby next to your breast. And she took off, of course, her blouse and put the baby, the baby just crawled to the nipple and started sucking. Really? Yeah. And the mom started crying. She's like, I want a breastfeed. So really, like before trying, you have a lot of oxytocin that comes out, which will make you call and bond you with the baby. We don't pressure women. We empower them to try to breastfeed. Yes, there are sometimes anatomical things that will not let you breastfeed. But if you can breastfeed, try even a month, even two weeks, even few days will make a huge difference in the baby. But going back to formula, I really don't have an opinion about it because I know there's so many formulas out there and each one says they're the best, but they can never mimic breastmen. Yeah. Yeah. I'm deep down the rabbit hole of this right now. So when I come to some conclusions, I'll share them with you. I'd love to get your-- Yeah. And then maybe we can eventually, like I said, do tailored or specific formulas for each baby depending on their gut microbiome. So maybe we need to look into that in the future. I love that. I love that concept. So now these couples are on this journey together. The man still plays a huge role. I mean, the father's presence we know, especially in young children, is critically important. Breastfeeding critically important. But I've been deep down the rabbit hole of this whole toxic exposure and pro-inflammatory compounds and a lot of different infant formulas. But the sad thing is it's restricted by the regulatory guidelines. Like you have to have this and you can't have that. And so it limits the capacity to structure these in ways that might be healthier for babies. I think you're going to see a lot of that change because human foods, the US FDA, is really open to widening these lanes to the extent that there's evidence to say that they should-- This is priority. I think this should be the number one priority because we are what we eat. And we need to have a nice clean food supply. Like I said, some people are going to other countries to get different type of food. So no, I think this should be our priority because a lot of the diseases are related to food. We know that. And so as I know with UIN, you're not only dealing with deliveries, obviously you're also dealing with women's health issues. And there was a big announcement by the FDA recently, removing black box warnings from female hormone therapy. And they corrected the narrative around the Women's Health Initiative study that incorrectly was when they-- most people don't read a published study. And so they take the narrative and the headlines. That comes from headlines. And they intentionally or unintentionally-- I mean, I have to think that it was intentional-- redirected women away from hormone therapy. And if you talk to Marty McCarry, the commissioner for the FDA, he'll say that 50 million women needlessly suffered because they were told that hormone therapy increased their risk of breast cancer when, in fact, it actually decreased their risk of breast cancer. There was certainly nothing causal. And there was a correlation between taking these-- having hormone therapy and increasing your rate of breast cancer. What I find fascinating is menopause for a lot of women is beginning earlier and earlier, right? And starting their late 30s. So you start to have these weird symptoms, mood changes, weight gain, water retention, fatigue, brain fog, mood and emotional issues. And immediately, I think most women look to their outside environment and go, "Okay, it's either my spouse or my career, my job, my kids, my stress." But very often, these are the hormonal changes going on. And it's my belief that they can benefit very often from hormone therapy. But where do you fall in that whole debate on hormone therapy? I think today is not a debate anymore. I think the WHOI misled-- not only women, but misled physicians. Yeah, happy to hear you say that. And when the WHOI came out, I was still a resident, 2001, 2002. And we discussed it in our journal club. And there was a robust study. We should not be giving women HRT. And even though in our residency as an OB/GYN, we don't see a lot of menopause women. So add to that the training and post-menopausal treatment is not as robust as it should be. And I think this is changing very soon. So we did not have a lot of experience with giving HRT plus we were afraid. And my first few years of practice, I would tell women, yes, take HRT just to treat your hot flashes five years. And then that said, you would stop them because we don't know the risk of breast cancer or cardiac diseases. And if you want to continue, that's at your own risk. I also make actually a few patients sign, consent, like they're taking it at their own risk. Because that's what the data told us. And we're finding evidence-based. But yeah, if we want to talk about the WHO, the type of estrogen that was used, the design of the study, the age of the woman, we can talk for two hours. But it was some sort of, it doesn't reflect what the real problem is. Now women are going into menopause maybe a little bit earlier. Yes, they would benefit from hormone replacement, especially the newer bio or I call them body identical because they're identical to the body. They're still manufactured in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and other things. But there's chemically very similar to the own estrogen, estrogen, testosterone. Yes, women will benefit on multiple levels, from their skin all the way down to their organs and bones and vaginal health, sexual health, mental health. So there's a lot of benefits for HRT. But also I think we should always kind of, you know, personalize things. Right. The dosages who should benefit, when to start, when to stop, work on the pillars initially that inflammation, they're gut, they're toxins before throwing in hormones without, you know, thinking. And it becomes like a recipe. It should not be a recipe. It should be a tool that we have to give women those medications that I think are just replacing what they lost. We're not giving them superfisalogical dosages. Right. Bring them back to our people. Bring them back where they are because they deserve to be functioning. You know, the work, the workforce today is all of 50, 50 men and women. We have CEOs that are women. So imagine a CEO in a meeting and she's sweating and she forgot what she thought about. I mean, it's so important. But it happened to my wife. We just did a podcast on it. Yeah. I mean, I lived it day to day. I mean, it just over a period of, slowly over a period of several months, my wife was becoming kind of a different person. And what really drew my attention to it was when she got frozen shoulder. She got a he's of capsulitis and it's the pick. So yeah, I didn't realize how typical it was. And there's not a lot of literature on it. And so I started going deep down the rabbit hole of it. And, you know, all of this, the symptomology, including the frozen shoulder was linked back to menopause. And then of course, then when she started having hat flashes, that was the big flashing red light. And we did a test called a Dutch test. It's 24 hour urine test. And it gave us so much information that her OB/GYN was able to tailor her hormone treatments. And if you're a woman and you want to see that podcast, we actually give Sages exact hormone dosages on there. Go through the Dutch test in detail. It was astounding to me. She became a different person, I'm sure. In three weeks, completely different human being. It was like the woman I met, you know, 10 years prior. I mean, mood improved, sleep improved, libido came back. Of course. Thank you very much. Of course. And that was a nice plus. libido came back like a freight train. Her, you know, her waking energy improved. She would tell me she's like, I'm sitting down to send a wire from my body. I'm in a bank to pay this bill. And I've done this a dozen times. And I literally can't figure it out. Yeah. She's like, I feel stupid. I hear this whole time. It's not me. Like I feel like I'm different person. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, definitely hormones play a role. But even even frozen shoulder. Yeah. Which I was like, you know, she went from being able to only raise her arm to hear it. Went straight up in the air. And of course, you know, it's not only, you know, your muscular skeletal system, your cardiovascular system, your skin, which is so important, you know, for women. And their beauty, you know, they start aging very fast if they're without HRT. I see a lot of women undergoing, let's say, you know, face lifts. And the ones that are not on hormone replacement, the results are usually weaker and last less. So it can help on all levels. And I'm so happy that they removed this, you know, stick on estrogen causing cancer. Because I think we're in the right directions using them the correct way for the right patient, the right dose, the right, the right route is what's important. And that's where, you know, physicians and healthcare workers, midwives, those are the people that can, you know, help those those women. And at least the help is there now. You know, I, I, I try not to get my information from TikTok. I mean, Instagram, I try to get it from, from clinical studies and then put it on Instagram and TikTok. But I've been reading a lot lately about because we, we struggle with this when we are young parents, you know, with having the kids sleep with you, right? And it's the best. I mean, let's just be honest, having your baby in the bed with you or your young child in the bed with you and they're all snuggled up. You do not want to just get up and go dump them in the crib or give them away. But now there seems to be some evidence emerging that, you know, kids that actually do break that law and sleep with their parents early on. I mean, you don't want your 50 year-old sleeping with you, but, you know, and it's- -Look who you're. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -It gets a little weird when they're your size. But, you know, that there's some evidence that this bond and this unity actually creates, children in adolescence that have lessons in its own anxiety. Absolutely. I saw that study. It was out a few weeks ago. Yeah, a few weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. Because our son is like six, he sleeps in our bed. There you go. Yeah. It's just like that. But the problem is that a lot of night he comes in, we put him, he sleeps in his bed, but then I would say every night he would come. Yeah. A lot of night he would kick me out. He's like, you know, I mean, I wake up, I wake up very early, but I'm like, "Kick you out and do the kick kick." He's like him. He's like three AM for AM, he starts, you know, giving me a room for you dad. But yeah, and then we thought, we need to break this cycle, keep him in the room. But when I saw the study, it makes sense. But like everything, you have to have a balance. Yeah, sure, no problem. There should be a point. Yeah, a point where, you know, he has to have his independence. He will probably, or she will probably won't want to sleep in your bed anymore. They want their own room and blah, blah, blah. But definitely this bonding, this connection, there's some chemistry that goes on, ferro-mones, I don't know what they are, or the energy that goes between humans when they're sleeping next to each other that could, you know, maybe help the kids have less anxiety. They would feel safe. So it's all connected. My wife used to accuse me of being lazy because, you know, we would take turns when our first born, my daughter would wake up in the middle of the night, start crying. And my solution was go, pick her up, bring her back to the bed, because I was so exhausted. Yeah, just lay down and she would go back to bed. Like this, this is working, right? The easy way, the easy way, but the way it could be a little chair next to the crib, and I'll try to, you know, get her back to sleep and sneak her back into the crib, she'd start crying again. I'm like, I was thinking about it, you know, the baby was connected to the mom through the vehicle cord. They were in their uterus. They suddenly putting them alone in a crib. As we had the same thing with twins, you know, they were used to being, you know, close to each other. There's a lot of debate whether you should separate them and what what age you should separate them or keep them sleeping next to each other. I think it's important to keep the internal environment kind of the same when you're out and slowly, you know, disconnect them from each other, for example, disconnect the kid from you. So it's okay if you're, I guess, kids sleeps in your bed. I'm sure a lot of people comment on this saying, yes, no, it's controversial. But at the end, whatever works for you. I think, yeah, because you just make decision as a parent and quit worrying about the rest of it, you know, it's, the mother nature has a way of kind of taking care of itself. You know, one day your kid's gonna not gonna wake up and just come running into your bed. You know, I used to, I used to hear the like the bitter pattern of the feet come down the hallway. Or the running, something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, kids wake up alone. I mean, they've got high cataclysmines or something, they go right to worst case scenario. Yeah, that's a alligator under the bed's monster in the closet and a v-line for your bed. Yeah. And it's kind of hard to just carry them back and go. Like I said, the body will adjust, you know, the nice thing about the body, it puts priority to what it needs to fix first. So that's why I tell people to try to fix one thing at a time. Because if you overwhelm the body to fix everything in different directions, it's gonna get overwhelmed. But the body knows, like now my priority is let's say sleep. So it will fix your sleep in a way. Now my practice to reproduce. So you will fix your your gonads. So yeah, the body is amazing machine, I would say. Over the last 20 years in human biology, one compound I've trusted again and again is NAD+. It's critical for energy, focus, and cellular repair. But your levels drop around age 30. I used to administer NAD via IVs in my clinics, but now I take ronutrition's liposomal NAD, the first oral formula that actually works. Their advanced delivery tech gets any de-strate into your bloodstream. I take one teaspoon daily and the results are real. Clean energy, sharper focus, and better recovery. You can try it risk-free with the ultimate 15 code at checkout for 15% off. Just put in ultimate 15 at checkout, you'll receive 15% off and your cells will thank you. I've also heard you talk about a topic that might be somewhat controversial about migration as a health disruptor. Because we have such mixed cultures and mixed migratory patterns all over the world. It's you know, that migration adapting to a new culture or language, new social norms has its set of stressors. Absolutely. You talk about some of the statistics in migrant population. I wonder if you might touch on that for what does that look like for people that are either relocating to a new country, new culture? What does it look for for people that are coming from another culture and trying to assimilate it? Today there's around 300 million people around with that migrate. Some of them migrate across borders. Some people migrate in their same, you know, country, but different regions. So humans migrate in search of food, the career, family safety. Some are forced to, let's say, migrate some just do it by choice for other, you know, more opportunities in life. So migration is common and it's increasing today because it's easy to migrate today. But yes, I think migration is not only, you know, changing geography, it's changing your physiology. And honestly, I learned this from myself, from my own experience because I migrated a few times in my life. And it takes time for your body to adjust your microbiome changes from one country to another. Really? Because as the water you're drinking, the food you're eating, like for example, now when I go back, let's say to Lebanon in the summertime, if I eat something there, I might have an upset stomach because my Florida changed living in Miami and using the water of Miami, for example. So your physiology changes. What are my, there's not that good, by the way? Yeah, I know. I know. Don't you start it on that. Yeah, so I just saw your reverse osmosis system. So I think this is also another message to people clean their water without before drinking it. So yeah, your physiology changes by migrating, not only your geography or physiology, your friends might change a new job. So I think it's always a good opportunity to use migration in a positive way, not to make it dramatic, even if you had to be forced to migrate. But your circadian rhythm will change. But the body, like I said, is amazing and it will adapt to this migration. And people need to be aware of it. If you're migrating, it might take you three or four months to adapt to your society. Do you refer to it as the healthy immigrant effect? Yes, yes. Yeah. And you need to be positive about it. And even if you've lost everything and you move to a different country, it should be an opportunity to start from scratch. Any bad thing that happens, I think, in everybody's life, should be taken in a positive way and try to build on it. And this all reflects in your physiology. And your energy will change, your sleep patterns will change. So yeah, I think migration is a topic that not many are talking about, but it plays a role in our health because we are constantly migrating and traveling around the world. It wouldn't be the ultimate human podcast if we didn't talk about some of the fixation that people have on longevity and anti-aging. And not just for women, but for men as well. Knowing what you know, experiencing what you've experienced as a physician, everything from delivering babies to managing female hormone therapy to your lens on migration, what are just some of the must-haves or must-dos in that society, men and women both need to be engaged in a regular basis. Yeah, I think first, you mentioned the obsession with, say, longevity and health span. I think we should not have this obsession. Unfortunately, people now are so obsessed on doing everything at the same time. And this is what's causing sometimes more anxiety. Sometimes doing more labs can cause more anxiety. So I think we should use labs more as a framework to help us improve things not to do so many labs because this is going to make you more anxious. You mentioned the beginning basics, your sleep, your food and your stress levels. I think those are the first thing that we need to do because being obsessed with longevity and you might miss things in life that you need to enjoy. So you have to have a good balance in improving your health, enjoying life, but at the same time, living in a healthy way so that you can function, have good energy and transmit this to your kids and to your environment. So yeah, the first thing is not to obsess about longevity and then living longer, just obsess about living healthier now. I think that's, and if you like to do this certain hobby, do it in a healthy way if you like to do a padel or you like to play tennis or soccer, do it but in a way that you will enjoy it and don't obsess about hacks that might not work for you, might work for some other people. And like I said, sleep is so important. I mean, I'm discovering this every day because I have issues with sleep and then I'm trying to fix that because the nights I sleep well, I'm so productive and I feel so. And the nights I don't, I'm in debt for sleep and my whole concentration. whole energy collapses. So focus on sleep because there are people say, oh, I'll sleep on I die. Yeah, I hear this all the time. You live once you live once. Yeah. I think the hours you are awake will be so much more fruitful if you have slept the night before. Yeah. So I think that's that's the main message. And of course, we know sleep improves your fertility, improves your weight control, your gut microbiome, your brain, your, it's, it's unbelievable. You know, how, how important sleep is and then food like we talked about is what, what we are because it's going to affect our hormones, which in turn will affect our, our life. Yeah. I would totally agree with that. I mean, I think that you can get paralysis of analysis very quickly by just going out there, just googling around about a good supplement, googling around about the best biohacking modalities. And I think very often we just forget that we have data on this already. We have big data. We have blue zone studies. And there is not much that matters if you don't get sleep, hope, who dieting and mobility, just making exercise kind of non-negotiable. And these are, this doesn't matter if you make $2 an hour, $2 million an hour. It's not a socioeconomic thing. It's just a human thing. And movement is cheap. I mean, movement is cheap. And, and, and, you know, it's interesting is, you, you, you, you want it to be this one special thing. You know, like I was always fascinated when I would look at like blue zone studies. And it was like the goat herders and sheep herders. And yeah, that we're, that we're living the, the longest life. Cause you know, like sheep wanders down over the hill, they walk over and get the sheep, they bring the sheep back up. Then they brought their lunch with them and they ate out in the sun, you know, or ate out under a tree and they have fresh air. And, and, you know, Casey means was talking about how we spend 97 and a half percent of our time indoors now. Yes. And I'm conscious about trying to force myself outside. And, and I will say that of all the biohacking, you know, you walked around here. I mean, of all the biohacking modalities that I have, um, in all this, you know, fancy, fancy equipment, nothing really makes me feel better than getting suddenly on my skin in the morning, doing around the breath work, going for a ground to walk. I mean, when I'm in Colorado, I have this little four mile, uh, loop that I do with a weight of vest. And I come back and I'm like, I feel really good. I feel like spiritually good. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The connection with nature and all these, uh, yeah. Western medicine they do, or Eastern medicine, they do forest bathing for the, yeah. Yeah. Um, and some we actually sent me a, uh, a slide of some of the, uh, hospitals in the thirties and forties. And they had sunbathing balconies, um, hospital beds on rooftop, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we just lay the patients out on the sun. It tells you, you know, like, uh, our ancestors knew a lot. Yeah. But we just had to prove it. Uh, with, you know, with, with studies. But there's a lot of things that are done that are really, you know, basic that our ancestors did without even maybe noticing that they are, you know, beneficial. And, you know, with time, they, uh, we, we lost those skills, I guess. Yeah. But, yeah, nature walking outside is amazing. But yeah, unfortunately because of work and because of people on a succeed all the time and there's so much pressure on us that we are stuck inside, um, on our laptops and our phones with junk lighting. Yeah. You just have to, you know, go out and, and walk. And I think what you've done here is almost like nature. Yeah. You're gonna bring me up. Yeah. Your air is so clean and, you know, everything is, is, is amazing. But, but like you said, going outside is, uh, still no replacement for no other person. Yeah. I mean, I think the more disconnected we get from other nature, the more, the more isolated we become, you know, I don't think that we were genetically programmed or intustrally designed to be endorsed this much in artificial lighting and artificial temperatures. You know, our bodies are so adaptive. It's incredible how resilient we are. You know, that's why I love the application of some of these hermetic stresses like sauna and co-punging and not to be obsessive about it, but those things make it make a difference. They actually build resilience. You know, of course, we do it with, with friends that will be even, you know, you know, better because, you know, also the community is so important. Yeah. So that community that sense, that sense of the sense of the community is huge. Yeah. So in your practice, um, where are you going? How has, how is your actual practice evolved like the way that you look at your patients? Now, have you zoomed out now and you actually start to consider lifestyle, diet, stress, whereas maybe, I don't not putting words in your mouth when you got out of medical, first started seeing patients, it's sort of a by the numbers kind of thing. I think you're not putting words on my, these are my words. Okay. It's exactly what I want to say. Yes. Yeah. Um, you become, you know, after training, you know, you become a bit kind of a robot. And, and you do the right things. You save lives. You do C sections. You do his direct to me. So you're doing the right things. But yeah, that zoomed out, you know, 360 view of lifestyle. I'm starting to appreciate it. Maybe in the last four, five years, how important it is. Yes. We used to be told lifestyle is important, but we never dug into, like a patient would come in for 10, 15, 20 minutes. Yeah. I wouldn't know much about her life. Right. She really dig in. Yeah. So, but I think digging in into every person's lifestyle, the way they sleep, what they eat, when they move, what are things happening in their life as far as stresses, the relationships. I mean, those take time to to know a person. You can't know a person within five minutes. But yes, definitely my view on pregnancy whenever I see a woman that has a baby, a small baby, I start thinking. Is that things she ingested? Is it the food? Is it, you know, her blood pressure? Why is her blood pressure high? Is it, you know, related to, you know, her stresses in life? Where does she live? So like, yes, my view to things have changed. No doubt. Have you seen patterns in your practice of a few patterns? Yeah. A few patterns in lifestyle. Yes. Yes. I mean, I definitely woman that have a very hectic lifestyle with, you know, very high demanding jobs. You would feel sometimes their pregnancies. They might end up with more IVF sometimes. I mean, again, those are just observations. I'm not saying anyone who's, you know, high achiever will need IVF. But yeah, you have those, those patterns that that you are seeing, you know, people that have don't access to food. They only have access to junk food. They end up being overweight, having preeclampsia, preterm labor, emergency c-sections. Yes, there is a pattern. No doubt. I know that. But now just the way I think about a pregnant patient is different than what I did, you know, five, six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's just amazing. I'm so glad that you came back so we could, I'm so happy you had me for round two. Yeah. And it's still a strategy that we had to meet halfway around the world and we had to finish it or you're right up the street. You know, I have a group of folks that are my VIP clients and or VIP members. And so we're going to go into the VIP group and now have a little private podcast because I let them know who's coming on the podcast. They have some questions for you. If you're actually interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to the ultimatehuman.com/vipp. And you can get it take advantage of the private podcast. You can ask, Gary, anything you can get my AI, feed it labs, you can be at a genetic testing, you can ask it anything. It's an incredible community of like-minded people that's going to change the world. But before I end every podcast, I ask my guests the same question. And if you watch the podcast, you know, it's coming. There's no right or wrong answer to this question. And then is what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? I think being, you know, I did not, I knew you're going to ask this question. I don't want to prepare it. I wanted it to be, you know, to come out for what we're discussing. I think an ultimate human, you should be a person who is connected to yourself, connected to the people around you, give as much as you take from others so that, you know, the day you are not here on Earth, people remember you that you were someone who impacted their life in a positive way. And then at the same time, being a human is, you know, enjoying life, not to take things all the time seriously. And then, you know, being able to live in a healthy way and then not dying, suffering. I think that's how I see how span and ultimate human. Meeting last year. Yeah. No, that's amazing. Actually, it'd be amazing. I'm glad you came back and thank you for having me. But on three, it's going to be the trying the biohack gadgets you have. For sure. Well, the whole podcast episode on You're Welcome Back in Time. You should do this. Yeah, you're my, you're my neighbor. So you're Welcome back anytime. So thank you for coming on. And until next time guys, that's just science.