Dr. Joseph Farrell - The Hess Mess Enigma (Pt. 3 of 3: From Zion to South Pole)

All of our files are free and will remain free. If you like the show, you can show support by donating $1 to help with expenses. Just use the PayPal link on our website, YouTube channel or Facebook page. Thanks. And welcome back to part 3 of the HESMAS. And Negmana, have to say it is a mess. For you who haven't read a book, especially for you who are not already familiar with many of the details. I mean, if you have some background in sight into World War II and all this stuff, you can follow us. But it may be easy to fall off the train if all these things are unknown to you. But I just recommend that you advise you get the book. You don't have to be very knowledgeable about anything when you read the book because you get everything forced fed. And you will see that it's outlined in a very chronological order and very thrilling. It's like I said, it's like a detective novel. It's like a crime novel. And when we're just extracting some highlights, it's kind of very difficult. It's easy to do with many other of your books, Joseph, but in this book, you can't only need to follow many of them. And the way we just took on some aspects without being able to make the full case, we'll also make this sounds like Lunacy speculation. But it's really, I mean, for instance, the double thing. It is certain there is a double here somewhere. The problem is we can't know where. Exactly. Exactly when and where. It's certain that there was a peace plan. But we can't know to what extent and where the puts and the hickler knowledge and all that stuff. So we're not just taking this out of the air. There is a lot of ground facts that we are trying to piece together this story from. And now we're going to take on maybe the most weird and outlandish aspects of them all. If that's even possible to to top it, but it is. I mean, notwithstanding my manipulation and all that stuff, I want to start with a very historically sensitive aspect actually and very weird aspect. And you know, but by the way, we have not so sympathetic listening in on our shows too, you know, because, no, but I mean, I understand them. So first of most of the info out there is just regurgitate the war propaganda, right? Winners write the history, etc. So they have two options. They can either get the mainstream narrative or they can get just as much war propaganda of you ask me. The revisionists, their own kind of writers of history who paints it with an opposite light. We are truth seekers. And that makes us interesting for all factions because we try to get to the bottom of the facts, you know, without having an agenda of politics or anything like that. And that makes us interesting, I think, for everybody who is concerned about World War 2. And to their irritation, we always end up with the Bournemon Reich. But today, today they're going to be a little happy because we're going to actually dare to touch to an extent Holocaust and Israeli Zionists aspects. So where does that enter the equation? Oh, boy, that, you know, I have alluded to it in three of my books, "Godway, the Two Faced God, the Third Way," and then this book, this book in particular because not only as we indicated in part one that Hess was a signatory to the Nuremberg race laws on the one hand, but then on the other, you have him trying to tone down the pogroms after Reich Christal monarchs, and then there are some who actually maintain that Hess brought news to the British that, you know, if you don't go through with this deal, then the plan is that they're going to exterminate the Jews. So in some versions of the Hess story in all of this, you actually have him trying to head that off. And again, it's very interesting that in Household's Circle of Contacts, some of those contacts end up square in the laptop of Lord Halifax, who himself was trying to figure out a way, you know, to head this whole thing off. So there's that out there, but for me, the really interesting part of this story isn't so much Hess, but one of his compadres in the Spondel, and I mentioned him earlier, that was Constantine von Neutracht, who most people don't know, was the signatory to the German version of the Balfour Declaration in World War I, where he called that if the Central Powers should win World War I, that Germany would press for a Zionist homeland, again, in Palestine, and that in return for the Turks giving up Palestine, they'd get deals with lots of German trade and so on and so forth. So Constantine von Neutracht here is one of these people. And again, the mere fact that you have him, he's not a highly placed person in the Nazi hierarchy, but he's certainly up there high enough to know people like Hess and so on, and Hess certainly would have been aware of von Neutracht's signing this decree. So there's something to do in the background of all of this Hessefare, I think, with the Holocaust. And again, I'm not willing to completely dismiss the idea that some of the other theorists out there that have examined the case have, that he may have been trying to head that off and bring some sort of resolution to the issue without the genocide. So I think that, you know, given Hess's morally conflicted nature prior to the flight, that it's a strong possibility. I think it's pretty certain that if they succeeded, you wouldn't see the extermination of, or exploitation of juice from the Third Reich. I think he would have given them amnesty. Right. I think there is a strong possibility of that. Because again, he was such a morally conflicted character after the Nazis take power with some of these things. And all of those who were kind of disgruntled against Hitler, were all of them were like pretty sober on the racism compared to, you know, those who weren't in the know was the most fervent. Like, I'm pretty sure Himmler wouldn't know. There's no indication that he was involved in toppling Hitler in this scenario, right? Right. No. He didn't belong to that fact. No. Well, you know, as far as Himmler goes, he was already involved at that point with extermination of juice. He had the Einsatzgruppen that went into Poland and rounded people up. So in other words, it was on the playbook. I think Himmler were more antisemitic even than Hitler. Oh, I definitely think so. I definitely think so. And then you have the chap who was sufficiently responsible. What was his name again? There was this move for the Holocaust? Yeah. Well, Himmler is certainly part of it, but Reinhard Hyderick is the one that is chairing the Vanzai conference in early 1942 on Aishmut. Great movie. Yeah, it's a it's a chilling thing because what you see happening there, the movie doesn't really bring out, but, but, you know, there were these programs here and there and, you know, they're, they're, they're kind of setting up the machinery. They're, they're doing the beta testing if I can put it in that term. And Hess would have known in his position that, you know, this machinery was being set up and that it was part and parcel. This is the other thing we need to remember. Barbarossa operation, Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union was intended as a part of the operation was intended precisely as a genocide. And this aspect of the operation was not widely known to the military commanders until after the operation started and then Hitler promulgated that decree that, you know, by the way, you should be rounding up Jews and killing them. Some of the German officers went along with that, you know, people like Funerational and people like that. Others were absolutely opposed to it. Field Marshal von Bok would not promulgate the decree and so on. So there, there was part of this, this invasion of the Soviet Union that was part of this genocide machinery. And Hess would have been privy to that. So again, I'm not willing to dismiss these people that think that this may not have been part of the project. of the thinking because there are clear instances in the British government and the Chamber of the government particularly of them trying to address this issue and figure out a way to give some sort of homeland for Jews. And in fact, there was a plan that was talked about right before the war broke out of dividing Palestine into a Jewish and Arabic section with strict British. But the soionists of Hadith at the Ragged Jannah, ever since what, the late 1800s? Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I think Madagascar and Siberia's red herrings, they've always had their eyes on Israel. Yeah, I do too, I do too. And we do have examples, as I pointed out in the book and I've pointed out in other books, of the SS actually cooperating with the Zionists in Adagenda. People forget that Adolf Ickman himself visited Palestine as a guest of some of these organizations. Did he speak fluently in Hebrew? Yes, he did. And that they were all in favor of this. You had the SS setting up camps and training elements of the Haganah, you know, the Zionist gorillas in Palestine at that period. So there is, this is one of the strange freaky flukes of history that there is this Nazi Zionist corroboration that's very, it's pretty mainstream today because in England, the neoliberal equivalent of England, the Blair rights or bluer as Blair is referred to, bluer. They are using antisemitism as an excuse to smack down any kind of opposition. They're, they're accusing Jews for being antisemitic. Yeah, I know. They're accusing long term anti-racist people who have fought or for Jews, the case of Jews like Ken Livingston, this former major of London. And he did the political incorrect thing to confirm what another labor had said officially that, yeah, yeah, it's a matter of history that Zionists and arts is cooperated and they even refer to it. But we've come to this ovellian level now of society that even pointing out mere facts makes you get you branded. Yep. Well, you know, I always tell people that if they want to, if they wanted to dispute that, there was a book published in this country by a very, very famous Jewish playwright and screenwriter by the name of Ben Hecht. He even wrote screenplays for the old Twilight Zone television series from time to time. You know, very well known man at the time. And he got wind of this Zionist Nazi cooperation and wrote a book about it about a famous case that was tried in Israel of one of these people that had cooperated, cooperated with the Nazis. And the book is called Perfidze. It's a fairly thick book. It goes into detail about this case. And it's, you know, you can imagine a Jewish playwright shock on learning about all of this stuff and he decided to write a book. And it's well worth reading. Yeah. But you say those who want to discuss it, it's not really that they're trying, there's no discussion, there's no intellectual debate. I don't disagree. I mean, it's just smearing and politics in a gentleman. Yeah. Well, I know. I know it goes on in this country all the time. You know, I've been called in Israeli shill for never talking about the Zionists by the right wing washis and I've been called a Nazi by, yeah, crypto not saying, you know, and I've even called a card carrying Illuminati at one point because I went to Oxford, you know, and everybody knows. And everybody knows about that place, you know. Yeah. Well, I bet they will dump you in your salary. I mean, Illuminati after all your books. Yeah, they owe me quite a bit by now. They should really start paying up here. But and by the way, when we talk about this, I mentioned it briefly to you before we've begun to. Soionism is really pretty, it's a pretty identical to Nazism. It's just that you're changing the protagonist here. They are a race cult. Yeah. It is a flip side of that. Yeah, it is. It's identical. Yeah. Before the Palestinian thing, you could still say that, but you couldn't accuse them of crimes. Right. No, they're up in their neck to in concentration camps and assassinations and it's exactly what it's exactly what the Secretary of the Navy in this country, James Forrest, all predicted. You know, he was opposed to the recognition. It was one of the major concerns of Lord Halifax and his circle in the Chamber of the Government that we're trying to address this. So it's been around for a very long time and these warnings have been around for a very long time. And by the way, we'll get back to Forrest pretty soon when we are on talk. But I want to say also the last thing about this is that it's interesting because if you look at the people as traumatized, if you have individual traumatized, let's say you're doing sexual predatory stuff to incest or pedophilia or so. Very often victims of that become assaultous themselves. It's the inherited sin, I guess, in Christianity and philosophy. And in a way you see that going on in Israel too, the behaving as the Germans did to some of them. But the interesting thing is that the Zionists always go off easy because they wanted people out of the job. That's why they were cooperating. They had the same interests. Noughts is one to them out. Who suffered? The poor, the get to juice. Those who always are powerless and weak. There's the rich juice. Many of them go out and the ideological juice. And ironically, many of these people have not even ethnical ties to the Middle East. Well, there's a good book out there if people are interested in this subject. And it's written by a Jew by the name of Alfred Lillian Thal. And it's a fairly thick book. It's a study of Zionism. And the title of the book is called What Price Zionism? And it's a really, for one thing, it's kind of a good historical overview. Another pair of good books out there is to eliminate the opiate. It's a two-volume study by Rabbi Marvin Antleman, an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. And he goes into some of the early history of all of those. So it's a fascinating study in and of itself once you get dig down into the history of it. But yeah, there are sources out there. But the problem is they're so well, they're so unknown. And if they are known, they're so vilified, as you say, by all these smear tactics. Yeah, but do, I mean, opinions are wanting. We took in fact documented facts. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's my point. The facts are out there if you want to go looking for them. And once you have them, then the smear tactics really don't work. And it's the subject that does need to be discussed. Jews themselves have been trying to raise the issue for quite some time. And they're being ignored. Think of Stein, who comes to mind for instance, or Hannah Arant, you know, lots of people. So a lilyanthol. So it's been out there. Okay. So as far as Zionism, criticism, now I want to see how this ties into this because there's a couple of more points before you can get to Antarctica. First off, you have the interesting thing. I've always regarded this with great confusion because it is a fact that you can see the five six million figure. It goes all the way back to Google it. It's a matter of fact. You can see newspapers. Yes. Sure, people, you don't need six million dead Jews in concentration camps to be against Nazism folks. Okay. So don't tie this up because if you love liberty, then any totalitarian system will be an interesting for you. So and people died in the camps, not just Jews, but also so people. Somehow it's all ended up as a Jewish thing. Sure, many Jews, but many people. I don't even care how many because what's the difference between one million and six million for instance, it doesn't matter. It's just semantics. It's just numbers. But I think the six million thing is a ritual or symbolic, interesting thing because that goes back to how far back does it go? Well, I have recently had a number of people contact me about that and tell me that there is some sort of significance with that number in Jewish esoteric tradition and lore. Now I have traced it back to a statement allegedly made by Max Nordau, one of the early Zionist leaders at the 10th Zionist Congress in 1910. That's his whole quote, "No, no quotation." That's the Nordau quotation. Yes. It comes in different versions and I do discuss that a bit in the book because depending on whose version you read, the wording of the quotation changes slightly. This is for me a big historical problem because the protocols, the minutes of those Zionist congresses were taken in German. It's called the Stenegrofician Protocol, and it's in the Eastern Congress. And if you try and find that document in the original German, it's next to impossible. However, the center, pardon me, for Zionism at that point in Europe was in guess where? Berlin. And it was subsequently moved at some point from Berlin to this country. So my question has always been, did any of those early Nazis, or for that matter, anybody else in the interwar period, have access to the original German of that quotation, which again, I've searched for decades trying to find the original German, and I simply cannot find it. So you're relying on secondary sources, and they're principally four. And depending on which source you can solve the wording changes slightly. It's six million creatures and a couple of versions, it's six million Jews in one version, and it's six million creatures in another. Okay. Yeah, but I've seen news articles later than this, but before World War II, that says rumors about six million dead Jews too. So we know the figure has been at print before Holocaust. Yeah, it was out there. Yeah, you're just talking about the origin, right? Yeah, I'm talking about the original German of that quotation, which is made before World War I. Yeah. But I've had people contact me and tell me that that number was actually mentioned even earlier, as late as the late 19th century. Yeah, so I'm even claimed to six million dead Jews in Russia or Soviet Union. Yeah. So they've been using this magical figure six million, and it's also grown. If you you can look, this you can Google too. There's a pretty good documentation for how they have grown the numbers of Holocaust. For God's very big. At some point it was four million. And we're talking now, like, say, red cross reports, you know, different kind of sources. And somehow it's just ended up at six million, but it wasn't always six million. No, that's that's my problem with it too. It's been it's become kind of a symbol and inflated. And you know, the problem with the symbol is the number is there before the event way before the event. If you if you look at the Nordau quotation and this is the problem. And what's the implications for the Husmas? Well, the implication here is that if you read what Nordau said, he says, and I'm paraphrasing off the top of my head here. And I'm paraphrasing the quotation itself, how dare the clever talker, the smooth babbler talk of peace when the governments of the world powers are preparing for the death of six million and here again, is it people, creatures or whatever. And there's not a word to be raised in protest for it or something to this effect. And this is said again in 1910, while the implication of his comment is not just the number, it's it's the implication that this is some sort of concerted international plan. And that somehow the Zionist leaders have gotten wind of it through their networks of intelligence or some of them might be part of it who knows. But the implication is it's is that it's some sort of international plan. And that's the frightening aspect about all of this that no one wants to talk about. And again, you see these time and again, you see these efforts being made during both world wars to to deal with the question. And they always seem to just kind of collapse magically. You know, you have Lord Halifax and Britain, you have Fonoid, Rotten, World War I, Germany, and it goes nowhere. And then you end up with the genocide. And you know, like you say, it's always the poor people, the people in the ghettos that this fell on and fell on the hardest. But how is it tied in with the Hesmus? I think it's tied in in the following way. Hes, again, let's go back to the fact that this man is a connected man. And go back to the fact that these protocols are in German and that he himself is a signatory to the race laws. In other words, that to me is an indicator that he wants to address this question and get it dealt with. All right. I think that if anybody in Nazi Germany would have had access to the original German of those protocols, it probably would have been someone like Hes, like a Hes, with all of his secret society connections with his connections to the German upper crust, with his connections to the German corporate world, with his international connections, that if there's one individual that we would have to look at very carefully to see if perhaps he knew a heck of a lot more than he ever led on publicly, it would be Hes. And again, I go back to that very curious incident that I report on in the book that Volv Rudiger reported on about Manachem Begne making a warning to President Carter about Hes not getting out of prison. I suspect strongly that if that that warning was real, and again, I suspect that it probably was, that it had something to do with this whole question of the history of the Holocaust and Zionism and the preparations for the Holocaust, that as the Zionists themselves, as Max Nordau indicated, was somehow this big international plot. So if anybody knew of it in Nazi Germany, it would have had to have been someone like Hes. And then of course we've got the, we've got that strange character Rosenberg, Alfred Rosenberg out there promoting Jewish Zionist Bolshevik, banking conspiracies and all of this stuff. Yeah, Rothschild's, Rothschild is how you properly pronounce the name. Now Rothschild and the communists are involved here too. Interesting. And I'm Y5. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big, it's a big network of something. And you know, nobody has delved into this history sufficiently. And again, I think it's highly weird that Rosenberg is one of these people that it was hung at Nuremberg. He was a classic rabble rouser so in a certain sense I can see the point. But here again is another one of these people that may have had some sort of inside information. And then there's that very strange, and this to me while we're on the topic out, is one of the strangest things, creepiest chilling things that Hitler ever said. And this was a speech that he gave at the end of January of 1939 to the Reichstag. And you can go online and listen to this thing. But don't listen to it with English subtitles because the German, again, we don't have the actual German text in front of us of what Hitler was actually saying. But he said van S. an internats in Alfinance, Yudin to him in and out of Sir Europa, Deganz Velt in an Andre Veltkrieg, Gelingen's Ulte. And then he goes on to say it will result, if there's successful in this, it will result in the annihilation of the Jewish race. But that phrase, the phrase that he uses, internats in Alfinance, Yudin to him, the emphasis there, as you know, in German can change on whether you take that as one word, or as two words, or as three words. And this is the problem, and I found nobody that has ever looked at that speech and tried to delve into the original text of it and what he may have actually been referring to. Who's he really giving the warning to? Who's his speech writer? Yeah, who cobbled that thing together, you know? And you can tell because when he's giving this speech, there is a piece of paper on the podium there, and he's occasionally looking down and referring to it. So this is not as botanist. Typical Adlof, extemporary, herring and rent. It's an actual warning of some sort, but the question is to whom? It's easy to say, well, the Jews. But why is he picking internats in Alfinance, you know? Internats in Al was the Nazi word for the communist international. Internats is obviously banking. So what's he really saying here? What's the network that he has in his head? We don't have to be too conspiratorial because it's a matter of historic fact that Hitler was propped up by powerful financiers. Oh, yeah. And I have to say, you know, like most fascism, all school fascism is the finance, the corporation and the state bed in bed. Only that, like in Mussolini's case, the state's calls to shots. Whereas in today's world, in our hypocrisy, the state is a slave for the corporations, they're calling it the shots. That's the only difference. what the upper class elites, the 0.1% oligarchs, their fascination where the fascism is, that it's a ballwork against workers power, communism, all that stuff. So on the one hand they want it as a ballwork. On the other hand, they always get in trouble because it always turns on them, like a Frankish Don Monster, and that's precisely what Hitler did. He turned on the bangsters at some point, up to the extent that the Bolsheviks did, of course, but enough for them to be in trouble. Well, here's the problem. In Yahweh the Two-Faced God, I put a picture of a document for a loan that is co-signed by Adolf Hitler and Max Warburg. And talk about not just bangster collaboration, but Zionist Nazi collaboration and everything else, all in one document. There you go. And again, this is one of those little pieces of details from history that falls right off the radar, that very, very few people have ever talked about or even mentioned. So again, you've got this whole mysterious thing, and you've got this allegation hanging out there by one of the major pre-World War I Zionist leaders that there's some sort of international conspiracy going on here. And the factions who's cooperating with who is extremely unclear, because most people just most people just go by the obvious, like ideological, but that's a whole of mirrors too, because when it comes to real politics, that doesn't really matter. I discussed with Peter Levener when I had him on once for a similar show. The very interesting thing that, and I think I touched it with Cooper too, that at some point Israel backs off from Argentina. It's like, and we know there's a lot of Jews in Argentina too, who were pretty safe. Oh yeah, you would think that if the Nazis were running the show, they would start hunting them down. But Israel, they don't do that, and the Israelis doesn't even go after the big fish. Cooper, who you know has insight information, admitted that they threw to the wolves the poor. The small fish. Yeah, but what's his face? The Aishman. Barbi. Exactly. And Aishman, at that point, wasn't in the Odessa. He was a low-level worker at the factory. He was out. He was in the cold. And so they threw some symbolic cases and it dried up, and we know now that Hitler and Brawman most likely did survive, and they didn't even try to. Although, Vincent Tal, Demello told me, did want to go after them. But his successors were not interested, not even interested in evidence that they lived. So at some point, we see that those powers surviving the war must have come to some sort of either peace agreement or maybe even cooperation. If the Brawman Reich and the Wall Street faction fascists amalgam'd, then we know the Zionists are strong in the Wall Street faction too, then they must have been some sort of, because Hitler, if Hitler is out of the equation and him know the result of the equation, who's really going to push the anti-Semitism? Oh, there's no real reason to do so. No. Number one. And with Hitler out of the equation, as you say, there's not even a personal driving force. And you know, Brawman always struck me as the sort of individual that he just wants to make money from any criminal activity he can, and there's not much money in that, obviously. But why challenge big powers if you want power yourself? Well, precisely. So yeah, there's something about all of this that still has not come to light that says very murky and very dark. And you know, I don't even know where one would begin to try and follow these few breadcrumbs that are out there. There's something, there's something dark and mysterious going on. And someday we'll talk off the record, perhaps face to face, and I'll let you know what I think it is. But but yeah, it's it's much more complex than than I think people are really, really accustomed to thinking in terms of. It goes back a long way and it's it's got its tentacles into just about everything that you can think of. And the poor people and the camps are, you know, they're the ponds and some gigantic game and the sacrifices in some gigantic game and that's the sad part of it. Let's just touch that as the last part of this discussion before we move on to the talktaker because you have a chapter called the holocaust hypothesis and the Haspi's plan. So how are they tied? Well, I think again that Hess is is trying to head this thing off. And I think what he's trying to do is not only get this this this double coup piece plan in place, but that part of this plan is to head off the genocide in Europe and throw German support back behind the idea of a Jewish homeland. And again, remember, he's in contact with factions inside of great Britain that are more or less thinking along the same lines. So it does and that plus the fact that all the indications are that whatever Hess is bringing with him in terms of this peace plan, it's a very clearly thought out kind of House of Fairy and document of spheres of influence. So in other words, spheres of influence is going to include what are we going to do about the so-called Jewish question? How are we going to come up with a plan that would be internationally acceptable to everybody in terms of some sort of homeland? And again, Hess would have had the historical background to know that Germany had its own version of the Balfour Declaration in World War I. In fact, the German Declaration came out two years prior to the Balfour Declaration, it came out in 1915. So again, I think Hess is acting like you say, I think for some faction in Germany that represents this continuation of that old German nobility, the old guard, so to speak, and the Toulog-Zalchafters kind of their front for it. I think they're connected to Nimsa too. Oh yeah, that heard very well-be. That could very well be because Nimsa was a little before this, it's an old name for this faction maybe. Possibly. Possibly. Because Nimsa goes back to the 19th century, right? Yeah. And this stuff is 20th century, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Hess was a bother to fly too many. In fact, I can think of without even touching on Antarctica, I can think of three scenarios for why they needed to keep him quiet. Four, actually. And then I'll get you take on it. One, this whole strange, and by the way, you're giving just as much information, your chapter on the Holocaust Jewish thing is just as big as in the Penguin Antarctica chapter. So for those who want to read the book, you should really just read it for these rare touches. But anyway, that's one, the whole thing here that we just discussed. The second is the secret weapons thing. The third, which you don't touch, but probably by implication, it's probably not a big leap. And that is that with a woman and a fascist international lurking in a background, you would need Hess contained. You wouldn't want Hess out in the open. If nothing else than just like I said for for maintaining the power because you remember Hitler seems the longest we can track Hitler's survival, just the longest as many scenarios and options. But both women and Hitler can be said to have lived all the way until the 1970s. After that early 1970s, they both disappear from history. And I'm now including all researchers, all hypothesis, versions. Nobody's arguing that they lived in the 1980s, for instance. So at least until '67, that was one important date in the Hess mess. They were still alive. And like I pointed out before, many of those Nazis who got hanged were crucial in, were against, were not on Bournemon's side. They would not be a part of Hitler and Bournemon's crowd anymore. Right. They were like ponds in a way because they had to take some big shots. They couldn't just let all and be not to go right. Some symbolic sacrifices had to be made there. And ironically, they're sacrificing those who would belong to the peace faction in Germany. All of them were eradicated, except Hess. Every no of one survived the war, except Hess and House of War, but House of War was more in the shadows. He wasn't a player on the scene. And on the British side, I don't know, I think the Churchill crowd, pretty much good hegemony too. accept the royal survive and that's that's a fourth the royals in Britain will not want this out because that could be a threat to their power because like you say they still have real power in paper if they wanted to they could do a coup of course they won't but they could and you could get a movement in Britain after the war against that you know let's make a real democracy or republic here let's get rid of these old echoes from former times because they are traders or whatever let's get rid of these Germans Germans yeah basically yeah that's what it is right it's a family feud so I see all those reasons can you think of more reasons to keep Hess under wraps well yeah I mean given his position as Reich commissar for technological matters and development yeah he would have had certain knowledge of of black projects like the bell and some other things that might be one reason but I'm intrigued particularly about this Bournemon scenario of that you mentioned I I will have to listen to that show you'll have to send me the link because this intrigues me because in retrospect looking at the people that are hanged at Nuremberg as you say it's precisely the people that were enemies of Bournemon chief among them being Herman Gering who didn't hang but he committed suicide he was sentenced to death but he took his own life these definitely were enemies of Bournemon and in fact Bournemon certainly I think set up both him and Gering right before the end of the war to take them out of consideration you know as as potential leaders for the future because according to the metal sources he cooperated very closely with MI5 up until all through the 50s there then he's let loose and then the money thing happens this is actually conflicting with your research and Peter Levengers research on the same but there is this chap I think he works for the guardian he's South American I think he lives in America but he works for the guardian and he you may know him he's one of those who's done most on the money track because at the end of the day this boils down to money not ideology and he stopped talking publicly because he was threatened yeah I think I know that journal was yeah yeah so so we know that there are still active in that's what they will want to quench more than anything they would let me and you sit here and speculate about you know the weirdest scenarios that's not important but the money is still in play yep absolutely it is absolutely it was such a huge chunk of money that the allies recovered but even by their own admission you know they say that they did not get all of it and probably didn't even get most of it it was such an enormous amount of money that got out of there I'm gold yeah it's just it's just it's just it boggles the imagination and you throw in the Japanese lit on top of that which was also another enormous hoard of cash you're dealing with an enormous pile of money and I'm adamant I think that this hidden system of finance basically means that it was kept in the hands of some sort of international cabal to play with as they chose and this this again has been responsible for the party finances and then turning that over to Borman this this again gives him information that could have proven to be dangerous just on the financial aspect alone of what Borman was setting up so yeah all of these things make sense to me but these people that do hang at Nuremberg yeah there's a lot of them that came a foul of of Martin Borman and were rudely and crudely dismissed and the model claimed that he was even brought in behind a mirror I mentioned this to you before we begun and he he would then comment upon the different interrogations what info was right and what was wrong and in such a position imagine he can finish off all his enemies all of his enemies yeah garing definitely fun ribbon trouble he can basically write the narrative well yeah he he is writing the narrative if this is true Colonel General Yodel perhaps you know that would have been in regular contact with with Borman field marshal kytle so yeah and according to Kota Houdrick one of the reasons that they let that what was his name again the one who was officially taking over for Hitler at the end grandad Martinez yeah Dernitz was in the know yeah oh yes he he was loyal so he was easily treated yeah yeah he was shut up oh yeah he sure did he sure did and that doesn't make sense either because if you because the mainstream people listening to this would say of course they had to finish off has because he was the symbolic leader you know when all the other fell and they even believe Borman died so okay so while a Dernitz go lightly yeah precisely precisely when he was the symbolic last leader yeah precisely so he doesn't make sense no no but okay I think we have we have to get you back later to we have never covered the financial aspect those books we haven't gotten to that period in the timeline yet so I think next time we're taking on arts is with you we'll get to those books okay today I want to finish off this third part with a penguin problem and but but fortunately we don't have to recap all the info about ontarctic because we've done that with you before we don't it with others so there's new stuff I want to go through with you sure one thing we can credit on your list for yes and we have also a blog you made recently about another adult out of Adagon he's coming on to the scene here so there's some fresh information I think we should recap but I don't know where do you want to begin with the ontarctic thing well and Arctica grew in the process of doing this book and and wanting to examine the Hess connection to Antarctica which is that cryptic statement that's made by the British Lord you know what about Norway which I took as code for for Antarctica and you know that shot my suspicion meter even further into the red zone because Hess if you read that exchange it's very brief Hess does not hesitate he doesn't even have to think about his only response is the furor has not pronounced so in other words what I'm thinking is that Hess is really signaling well this is not something that was really discussed with with Hitler you're going to have to discuss it with me so then I began wondering well why all of this this hoopla about Antarctica so I found a German book about the German Antarctic expedition and that started to unpeel even more layers of of weirdness because this is a conventional take on the whole dang thing that you know gearing is going down there because he's interested in the resources on the continent and you know that that will fly for about five minutes until you realize well it may have been original intention before they spell the name and so on but again even even if it's the original intention it's an intention that if you stop and think about it makes no sense because how are you going to exploit those resources how are you going to develop them so in other words I think we're again we're dealing with a cover story but what I really zeroed in on was the telegram that gearing sent to Captain Ritchell the the captain that was in charge of that German expedition and he says and I'm trying to recall as close as I can the words in this telegram he says to Captain Ritchell and to the rest of the crew members of the expedition that I congratulate you on the successful completion of your mission which will establish greater Germany's place you know in the world or something to this effect in other words he's he's referencing the whole greater Germany Karl Haushofer idea and I'm thinking wow what's this about it this this is not in my opinion just a rhetorical comment that's an indicator that there's much more going on about this Antarctic thing than meets the eye so I then turn to really kind of try and drill down into operation high jump the post-war American expedition and I began to notice that there were some odd parallels between the two expeditions because I discovered that the plan for first of we must say that they used him as a consultant didn't they the Germans yes I was just getting to that oh okay yeah I was just getting to that Admiral bird was brought over by the Nazis prior to their expedition to brief them on the conditions. But when I drilled down into the planning for Operation High Jump and for the publicly stated reasons for it. That's when it really got interesting because the public stated reasons for this big expedition, an aircraft carrier and a battalion of Marines and two submarines. Yeah, we know a lot. We've covered it. Yeah, you know, all of this stuff, it turns out that, well, we're going down there to test our equipment because the Arctic could be a zone of warfare in the future. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, okay, if we're afraid of the Soviets, then that's the opposite side of where they're at. Yeah, it's the opposite side of the world for trying out loud. And as you go to the Arctic then, that's where our Soviets will. If you want to test American Arctic tactics and equipment, go to Northern Alaska or Canada for granted. Or Greenland, all of which are much more accessible and don't involve the expense. Why outfit this entire flotilla to go down to the other end of the world where you're not proud of? Annoying the whole world in the process by the way. And annoying the whole world and you're probably not going to run into any Soviets desperate for world domination down there. Because officially at this point, this was no man's life. Yeah, exactly. And then I dig in and I find out, well, guess who's involved in the planning for this thing? Well, we've got fleet admiral Chester Nimitz, you know, the American equivalent to a German grand admiral. Okay. This is an involved planning this thing. And on top of that, we have the then secretary of the Navy, guess who John Forreston, a name we've heard before. And so I'm thinking what the heck is going on here? Why this high level planning for, you know, a conventional military exercise? Why do we have to have that level of planning in it? This is very Peter Leventosk and sinister forces because now you're certainly invoking UFOs on JFK. Well, not only this, but if you look, if you compare the two expeditions, the German and the American number one, you have the German expedition being planned at a cabinet level. All right. That's Herman Gerring. And with Rudolph Hess in the picture, another cabinet level position. So another is at a very high level. In Secretary John Forreston's case, you have someone who is at a sub cabinet level when the planning is made, who eventually becomes a member of the cabinet. All right. That's number one. And number two, you have both expeditions are using photogrammetry. And otherwise, they're using airplanes to fly and take pictures of the continent to map it. And I'm wondering, okay, why this sudden need to take pictures of all of this ice. And I suspect that the real reason is that they're not mapping anything. They're looking for something. And then I found a map of Operation High Jump in this German book incidentally, which proved to be very helpful. And it shows where Admiral Bird's forces actually landed on the continent. And they land pretty much everywhere except where the Norwegians in Germans did. Okay. And then on top of this, Admiral Bird, when he's talking about the expedition, he says, what we're doing is we are waging a classical encirclement battle of conquest or something worse to those effect. And I thought, what the heck? I thought this was supposed to be a military exercise, not a conquest, not granted. Admiral Bird may have been speaking rhetorically there. But the fact of the matter is, is he calls this thing off after a few weeks. He high-tails it back to the United States. Then he writes a 100-page plus article for National Geographic magazine about what a wonderful success this expedition was, which I think that article was to enhance the cover story. But that's after he. That's after he gets back. No, but it's also after he spilled the beans to the journalist about. Yeah, well, that's after he may be flying from Polt to Polt. Right, exactly. And on top of this, the strangest thing I found of them all was that his son, Richard Bird Jr. was invited in the late 1980s to a banquet in his father's honor at National Geographic magazine on the. on some anniversary of the publication of his father's article about that expedition. Along the way to Washington, D.C., he's put on the train by his family up in New England and he takes the train. But he turns up missing. He doesn't show up at the banquet. And he turns up to have been found dead in an abandoned warehouse in Baltimore, Maryland, being seen by a couple of witnesses in the company of quote-unquote another trap where he had a. who he had apparently been living with for about a month and never makes it there. And his body is turned turns up dead. So the Baltimore police assign a homicide detective to the case. So in other as they suspect a homicide, but nothing comes of the case. I've been able to learn nothing more about this. He wasn't a trombosis. He was a normal family. Oh, no, he was a normal fellow. But what I'm saying is he was seen by a couple of witnesses in the presence of someone else. Who appeared to have been a tramp. And I'm thinking my word, you know, here we have a stop. Probably the JFK trumps. Probably the chiefs. Now here's the problem. Daniel List told me about this after the book came out. And I've, you know, doth the hat to Daniel. I went out and bought this book. It's called The Witnesses on the Sixth floor or something like this. It turns out that one of Admiral Bird's nephews, who had the nickname of Colonel Beard, was the owner of the Texas Schoolbook Depository during the Kennedy assassination. So now look at the connection. And forrest, though, just so people know who that is. And and forrest all later went on to become Secretary of Defense under President Truman. And is the one that supposedly committed suicide by jumping out of his hospital room on the 16th floor of the Bethesda Naval Hospital. And what was Forrest at Connected to? Well, obviously Antarctica number one, number two, he was Secretary of Defense when Truman wanted to recognize Israel. Forrest all was one of the people that objected to that. And he's obviously involved in the in the planning of high jump. So he's connected to Admiral Bird. Okay. Mervor, isn't he also connected to UFO phenomenon? Yes, he is listed on one of the so-called magic 12 documents as being a member of the original 12 men panel called Majestic 12 or Magic 12. So yeah, and that's why money you for people think he was killed. Yeah. But at this stage, it could be anything. UFOs and Arctic recognition of Israel, you know, whatever. This guy was was obviously making enemies somewhere along the way. But now we have connections in Antarctica that are just downright bizarre. And some of the connections are two stages removed from the JFK assassination via one of Admiral Bird's nephews. And the son of Admiral Bird. He would because Admiral Bird got gagging order. But his son would probably know about. Sure. Precisely. Precisely. I think I think the guy was definitely murdered because there may have been quietly circulating behind the scenes some rumors that he was going to spill the beans about it. Who knows? I don't know. But, you know, a famous Admiral son just doesn't die under, you know, disappear and then die. No, his family was, they were protesting, right? They were something. Yeah, something is not because he was going to have this lecture. Maybe he was planning to spill some beans there. That's my point. Yeah. That's my point. It's my point before that. Yeah. That's my point. So, and all of this crazy strangeness about Antarctica, it just got much more bizarre in the whole mess. And as you pointed out, the sultan now in Ankara, Erdogan wants to open up. Yeah, I want to get to that a little later. First, I'll first want to press you on something because you didn't touch it in the book. And I'll have to say, I think for all the three-year-old sense satisfaction, we get reading this book. I think many people will feel that you're lefting them wanting, as one says, because in fact, I thought you were preparing for a book just on Antarctica because it's like you're introducing it at the last act. But you're just implying. Yeah. And I want to I want to squeeze you for some speculation now. To feed that hunger. Okay. And I want to say, I know we've discussed this before. I've heard you discuss it with others. I know where you don't want to go. I know where you put the limits of what you can't, what you can back. But I know you also can hypothesize honestly. And I want to say now let's say that because you more than employed it yourself right now, let's say that let's say the Nazis had the post-war Nazis had either in the South America somewhere or in Antarctica that had enough to make some prototypes of exotic flying crafts. Now let's say they produce them just to indulge you and your protests about energy demands and stuff. Let's say they produce them in the South, but they moved them to an operational base. I'm not talking about a city, but just like a base in Antarctica or or if they discovered the ruins or a station or a city from Antideluvian times who knows, right? But something weird is going on there. And let's say they move those crafts over there. They produce them in the South. They move them there. Now I've always felt that if they at this point had free energy, that would solve the whole problem of production in Antarctica. But anyway, there's possibilities here. So if they have that and you know they cut off from the rice, the war is over, they're more concerned with what they're doing there than you know influencing the world. And then comes Hyjump. Now they would it would be a Hyjump because the Germans down there would be that would jump high in surprise. What's going on? Where do they coming here? They give them a beating, warn them off, burden company retreats, but it doesn't last forever because at this point, Germany is crushed. It's just a lost outpost. So either the Germans make a peace deal or the retreats or maybe they are crushed in different manners. I mean, what about the nuclear weapons being exploded in Antarctica? You know, you've pointed out a decade later. So that's where I'll kind of want to hear you speculate a little. What could be going on? Again, I have no evidence or reason to believe that the Germans were able to perfect any sort of free energy technology. That set. So another is that scenario as far as I'm concerned is off the table. That set, your scenario that you're suggesting now is that they built some sort of technology out in South America and then perhaps transferred some of it there. That is feasible to my mind. And they would do so if my suspicion about these two expeditions being photo mapping reconnaissance expeditions to find something. They would do that if they were intent on continuing what they had begun with their expedition in 1938 and 1939. And that would be possible to explain if they transferred some of this stuff to explain the beating that Admiral Bird supposedly by some accounts received down there. Now, why do I entertain it? Why am I willing to entertain that as opposed to a secret UFO research and manufacturing base in Antarctica? It's for a very simple reason. If you go back to what I wrote in the Nazi international and again in Roswell and the Reich, I pointed out that the Air Force Intelligence Collection Memorandum that Brigadier General Charles Schulgen promulgated in 1947 after the Roswell incident. This is the document that Euphuulogy always goes to to prove that this was an extraterrestrial craft. Now, as I pointed out in Roswell and the Reich, this document exists in two versions of a doctorate version and the original. The original makes no mention of anything extraterrestrial. But both versions do want to know where the heck the Horton brothers are and what are they up to. And as I pointed out in that book, they're in Argentina. And what are they doing in Argentina? Why they're building Delta Wing Jet Aircraft for Juan Perón. Now, Delta Wing Jet Aircraft would far outclass anything that Admiral Bird drugged down there with him on that expedition. So yeah, they could fly around and be shooting down American planes right and left if they wanted to, if they had sufficient numbers of them down there to do that. And again, that would square very well with the idea that they're continuing some sort of reconnaissance mission. Now, I suspect, I've always suspected, although there's no evidence for this, that those two expeditions may have found in their photomapping enterprises that they may have found some sort of indication of something very ancient there that they wanted to keep very secret. What if it was an antideleuvian or alien just to indulge the alien crowd? What if they found an antigravity craft? Maybe that's been buried for a long time because that will solve the problem because then you have to reverse engineer it in South America. But it would be make sense that yeah, they can't produce UFOs in Antarctica, but they can discover it. What if it's not a city? What if it's not Atlantis? What if it's just technology? Well, again, my whole scenario is that there's an ancient high civilization that maybe had advanced technology. So I don't oppose the two. But if they find a city, that's huge. What I'm suggesting is precisely that they found some sort of technology, but not a craft, but just ancient technology of some sort that had to be deeply classified or kept secret for whatever reason. Yeah, but the problem is we need we need UFOs here because first why do we why do we need UFOs? Because of bird and pole to pole and because of Roswell. But again, but again, out. What bird is saying does not require extra terrestrial craft? No, no, I mean an antigravity craft. Let's not even speculate who produced it. It can be on. Why does it have to be antigravity? Why can't it be something supersonic and very long range? You know, this is this is pulled to pull this is pulled to pull besides that, you know, we're talking about space planes and the Nazis had designs for a global space plane as early as 1942. So in other words, again, we're leaping to conclusions beyond the state of the evidence that's available to speculate on. This is my objection to anti-gravity. Okay, so the Roswell thing doesn't have to be antigravity. Right. Exactly. Okay. Okay, but still exotic, right? Even if it's yet proportionally exotic because again, if you go back and look at what Brigadier General Shulgan says in that memorandum, which please people read the devil is in the details. It's in the details what he's what he's talking about with these craft are vectored jet turbine craft. In other words, craft that can hover, craft that can fly fast and so on and so forth and he wants to know where they're coming from. And let me throw one additional detail from that document into the mix to support your scenario. He asks for the Air Force to concentrate on the landing gear. Does it have wheels? Does it have skis? And so on. Yeah, skis. Yeah, now why is he asking about that in a memorandum that supposedly about extraterrestrial aircraft? Well, answer. He's not thinking about extraterrestrial aircraft. He's wanting to know if you read between the lines. Number one, where are the heck are these things coming from? They've got to be coming from somewhere in the world. And number two, because he wants to know where the Horton brothers are. He's thinking that this looks German. Yeah. And it would make sense to get the Horton's down to reverse engineer something. Sure. That's not that that is yet proportion. Wow. Absolutely. So you've got the infrastructure in Argentina to do what you're suggesting because they're already doing it for Juan Pro. They don't even need to find something in Antarctica force to know. They had the bell anyway. But the bell could be, hey, if they find something in the first German expeditions, they didn't have time to I mean, it was so close to the war, then the belt could be a continuation of what they found in Antarctica. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not going there because I've made that case that you have to look at the engineering and the personnel and the people involved in the Bell project long before the German expedition. You've got Walter Garlock and his interest in frame dragging and spin and all of this stuff. And in the presence of gold and mercury plasma experiments, all of this. In other words, again, the document trail does not lead to a reverse engineering scenario. Okay, so we can't connect the belt to Antarctica. No, no, no, no, you're trying very hard. I know get that scenario back, but now it's off the table. It's not for my sake. It gets for the listeners. I have done. I know. But it's just again, you know, my problem with the reverse engineering scenario is that this is a scenario that if you stop and think about it, does nothing but prevent you from digging into the human record of science papers and engineering papers. It's an explanation. It's a day as ex machina explanation that takes you absolutely nowhere. It prevents you from looking and asking the questions. But there has to be some kind of anti-deluvian type because we know that whatever they found in the talk to go, it has to be old. Well, absolutely. Antarctica is the only place on the planet where you have a continent under ice that fits the basic description of Atlantis in the Cretacean and Tamaeus of Plato. It's the only place on planet Earth that really does. Could I have a phone up power source? That could be. I don't know. That was sort of the problem of having an operation of base off to the war. Well, yeah, it would, but you've got to dig it up and it's going to be under lots of ice. And I find that that's probably a scenario that's unlikely. Well, I'm not sure you're thinking in the right direction here because you know what they did in Greenland. They made huge first of the supernatural caverns and they just furthered those caverns. The same thing was going on in Antarctica. In fact, they had you boats down there who were talking about. I know you definitely don't want to go there, but entrances to the whole of Earth. So if they were fooling around with you boats under the Antarctic ice, that's a way they could have found something. They don't have to unearth it. I mean, that would be too much for them. Even today, you would need what actually is going on. They're putting down the rocket morten and all those people down there. But back then, they could have come over it through those means, don't you think? Well, it's possible, but I doubt it because again, if they did, Al, you're missing a very important point. If they did, and I really want to get off this subject, I'm tired of going over this. But if they did, it would have required them logistically to put enough personnel and machinery down there to recover it. And you just don't see that. It's not happening. The earliest time that you find enough personnel and equipment to do that is precisely with Operation High Jump. Now, the question is, was there enough time for them to do that? Did Bird call it off not because he was chased out of there, but because whatever it may have been that they were looking for, they found and were successful and recovering. I don't know, but the logistic or it could have blown up in the face or that too, who knows. But the logistics of the Germans doing that is is to my mind, it's again, it's the same conundrum that we're in with this idea that some people have that they built this big UFO research and manufacturing center there. If you simply don't have the personnel, you don't have the infrastructure to do that, especially while you're waging a world war with two of the biggest naval powers in the world. No, it just makes sense. No, I think at best, at best, we can say that they had a few men, a little camp there and that that camp was guarding it or exploring it. And then they were surprised by the Americans, but are you, are you full manufacturing? No, there's not the no f evidence, I agree. No, there's just not the only evidence of conflict there that I've seen. That's been published as a series of articles that ran in Nexus magazine a few years ago, three articles over three different magazines by the same author that claimed that there was some sort of British SAS presence in Antarctica and that they were battling Nazis in some of these underground caverns. Well, you know, there's no substantiation to that story. It's just a guy reporting on a story that was told to him. Well, again, I'm not willing to dismiss it. But we have to have something more than that if we're going to indulge those kinds of scenarios. And I just don't see enough evidence even to speculate along those lines. No, that's okay. No, I think an interesting thing that we haven't done and we can end with the Antarctica scenario with that is to point out the huge inflation that comes at some point. It almost look orchestrated and it comes from actually pro-Nazi sources where this whole meme about Nazi UFOs is injected into the popular culture. No, we know who the modern heir of that trend is. That's the blue chicken crowd. Yep, they're watching onto that disinformation and blowing that up for some reason. Yeah, well, again, the reason that this keeps recycling in in UFO literature is they want to keep any Nazi angle on this story in the realm of the ridiculous to prevent people from looking seriously at the central core of what might be true there. And that to me, this is why I get so frustrated with all of these high-falutin scenarios. I really get frustrated because people are just switching off their critical faculty and swallowing things wholesale. I've gone out of my way to do research and carefully do it and to keep my speculations within the bounds of what I think is. Who would be behind this pro this Nazi UFO? I mean, we know it comes from pro-Nazi sources, but who are they working for? Why would I think it's certainly I think it's part of the American state trying to do this to deflect again to deflect attention into the ridiculous to keep people's eyes off of looking at the genuine aspects of the story. Because if that if the genuine aspects get out and start being corroborated by people who can step forward and offer detailed information to flesh out the scenario even more, that's what they want to prevent. They're trying to keep the lid on some huge secrets, which some of which may involve advanced technology, as you say. As far as I'm concerned, that's probable given given the Antarctica Atlantis connection. So, but if it's a discrediting up those people like Ernst Sundell or something, he's one of them. Miguel or something is another one. There's even there's even a trotskist I just read trotskist faction who went to this UFO, not to think, but can we see connections to CIA and other deep state actors to these people neonots? I believe so. Yes. Again, this this is such a badly obfuscated story, but just the fingerprints of disinformation operations are all over this. This is why I don't even talk about what books I'm writing anymore. I learned my lesson with Roswell and the Reich. Because no sooner had that book come out, then there's a flood of other books about it, most of which are in my opinion low quality. And they're all of this kind of blue chicken whistleblower stuff. That plus the other one who said, yeah, yeah, everything you say is right, but it was a Soviets. Yeah, incidentally, incidentally sources inside us inside us inside us. Yeah, that's the book on deep connections to the deep state. Yeah, that's that's that's precisely the book I'm talking it. So this is my problem with these highfalutin scenarios. Number one, as you say, they're being promoted by neo Nazis, quite frankly, you know, this is the whole problem with the Hanaboo real thing that you hear about every so often. And people serious people in ufology buying into that nonsense. And they produce these pictures and these plans. It's so well, the showberg thing was really the shop burger thing was real and notice nobody's talking about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but Hanaboo and real everybody's talking about because that story has no traction has not a single indication of the potential physics involved or engineering or personnel behind it. So that's the story that gets traction to such a degree that Maria or shake has gotten a new cult around these days. Yes, I know that I know that. You know, and this is the other thing people need to remember when I report on those stories, it's not because I believe them. I'm just simply trying to report on these stories and say they're out there. And oftentimes. I come back and address the actual problems in those stories in a later book because I don't have the I wouldn't But you know, this is this is the problem with all of this stuff trying to sort through all of these stories that have been given so much traction over the years And Antarctica is you know sitting squat in the middle of it and there's so much nonsense out there about it But take take take the consequences of it We need someone with a sober mind to you should really just write an Antarctica book at this point Pure ontartic a book. That's you've been reporting enough about Antarctica in your blogs and stuff for it to become a book Sooner or later, and it's a very popular sub if nothing else it can finance your more serious work I'm not saying compromise where the contents debunk it if that's the intention Well, I I may do that at some point I've got a bunch of other books. I've got on my plate that I want to write before I do anything like that But yeah, it's very very frustrating to me, you know, it's It's um but but okay, let's let's move on and we agree then about that something is going down and then we can get to the sultan and stuff because it's still in play Still in play in modern it's a reason it's so popular people want to know It's so mysterious and we don't have to list all the people as being there. We've done that plenty of times, but the new addition here is the sultan What's going on there? I again, I don't know but my suspicion is that errogon Has somehow caught wind of whatever it is is going on down there or what they may be finding down there And he wants to find out for himself and there's a big Reason why I think he does let me just say I think it's through his new bodipootin. I think that's where he got the info No, you don't have to go to putin. Okay, you don't have to go any further than the piri resmap All right, yeah, yeah, he's he's got that lurking in the back of his mind. I'm almost certain and He's sitting on top of you know a lot of those old archives. Yes, library and and there could be information that he is privy to as a result that no one else is just like Saddam was with erochis It's just like Saddam is with eroch precisely and he may be Putting some dots together that he's seeing in the news about all the strange people that are going down there and connecting it with pieces of information that he knows But no one else does and he wants in on the action and the smoke and gun What he said which was I have to refresh my memory what did he talk about the victors? Oh, yes, the victors. Yes Come on, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. Oh come on. I can't remember everything. I've written. No, okay But no you do so tell us which was that well when when he when he made his announcement he said turkey Wast to join the what was it the parade or the chorus of victorious nations? Yeah You know in Antarctica and I'm thinking okay Victory okay who were we fighting down exactly What does the triumph? Yeah, and and when when exactly did this victory that you're talking about occur? Yeah, good point and I You know, I don't think that mr. Erdogan is talking Mirror rhetoric here because after all In the height of the one of the most hotly contested American elections What did you have happen? Well you had secretary of state john Kerry who's on this diplomatic junket around the world suddenly swerve south to Antarctica And you know in the beginning the trump cabinet had so promising people one of the first that they shut down Was general fling Yeah, and he was tightly connected to turkey Yeah, he was on the other gone side he worked for other gone Yeah, yeah So something's going on down there and I've got a you know I just would like to get mr. Erdogan in a corner and have a private conversation Well, you know mr. Erdogan who were we fighting down there? Yeah, and and people need to know he's like kind of a trump guy In that he doesn't give a damn and he's the typical guy who can spell the beans Putin is shutting up many many people in the top elite is shutting up Yeah, but Erdogan is more like Kind of a trump guy in the way that he wouldn't play the fiddle of the Well listen, I mean come on Erdogan. I have I saw a picture of him once dressed I mean literally dressed in the imperial you in the imperial garb of the soul, you know I saw him in a football stadium This was before he got back in politics because he was forbidden in politics I bet they have regret that many times they lifted that ban Oh, yeah, but back then he was attending a football stadium where they were singing old ottoman janishar songs Of getting back in power. So that's that's on the table. It's not even exotic But then I have a question. What about the Zionists? Israel have they any presence or claim or have they can they be tied to on talk to go? I believe that Israel does have a station down there Wow, it's not very large if I recall correctly, but I believe that they're one of the few countries that does and Again, why would they do that from the middle exactly why why all these you know why lock he'd martin down there for crying out loud It anyway you look at it. It's very strange and and the sultan just made it stranger with this victory comment of his You know that we're going to be joining this parade of victorious nations Well, okay, so there's a war that we missed you know Probe an ancient war well exactly When did this war occur and you know who were the combatants and and what's going on? So this resonates to a former talk about ancient war in heaven and surviving factors It could be that it could be the claims that The Nazis were shooting down Admiral bird, you know who knows what this is Anyway, you slice it. It's just very very strange, but you know And I'm so happy that you credit me in the book I have to thank you for that, but you know I said right it right it. I'm saying the same thing now It let's make a deal if you get so more juicy stuff surfacing and I bet it will happen in in in near future About don't talk to go. It's time for you to sit down and make connect some Do the ad Arctic of a car exactly Table the other books you've got plan daily at Well, you know people are concerned you're smoking so much just latch on to this earth for some more decades So you can have time to do all this stuff You know go over to vaping if nothing else get a bone. Oh, no, no, I think that's probably worse than smoking This yeah as another debate I don't even want to correct you right now. We don't have time, but But let's not make it another year to the next time because If you're gonna stay on a Nazi track, it just don't upon me that they haven't covered your Nazi UFO books I'm thinking about covert war series. You have two three books there Uh-huh covert war and breakthrough Yeah, that's not really focused on the Nazis. It's kind of a wider net there. Um, yeah, you see that's one of the few books I don't have softer swastikas and siops is is the first book in that little mini-series though That is Nazi and undiscovid war and break away civilizations and covert war and the clash of civilizations right right? Yeah, I have none of those three books So we can't really touch it yet, but uh, we also have to do the financial thing, you know Well, if you're doing the covert wars remember saucer swastikas and siops like I said That's the first book in in that little trilogy of books. Are you are you in the middle of a new book? No Yes Yeah, uh-huh, you know what um, what just I know you don't like to talk about the books But just answer me this is it a continuation kind of of the hasbook Ah, yes Okay, then I know then I know you because when I read the hasbook, I got the feeling at the end that you were just preparing the grounds for it it was like Something war was to come If you recall I was doing this book before I had intended to do it before the hasbook Oh, is it frequent? Well, I was reading in both books researching for both books and then I ran across the material that I put in the hasbook That convinced me I had to flip the original order that I intended to do So the hasbook because of one particular thing in the hasbook comes first And this one will pick up on that but the topic of the book is I can say it's not about Nazis he's in it, but it's not about Nazis Um, it's a popular topic that I'm approaching from a very philosophical angle. I'll just say that Okay, well, you know, soionists are Nazis so It can't it can't be about soionists either than No, okay, okay Well, okay, it's it's gonna be interesting, but I Should have done this preparation I didn't get to do today that I read because I know you talk about the H gang but there's really a lot more H people people's names beginning on H Involved here than those you listed. I mean you mentioned them all but you only listed a few of them So I thought when I read it I have to just it's so amazing on both the British and the German side There's a lot of H people but I didn't get around to do that so damn Yep, that's alright. Oh 2017 you say in the book is the release of the foils of the hairstyles yes. Yeah, so what happened there? We're in 18 nothing nothing Nothing they didn't release it and no they did apparently but there was there was there was nothing in them and I suspect that the few that that came out are badly redacted now I'm kind of waiting for picnic and prints to jump on those and and See what they think because they would be much more familiar with protocols of British documents and so on the I would but If they come out with anything more about the case I'm gonna glom onto it as fast as I can because yeah I wanted to write that book before anything about the documents did come out and they point out that in previous releases of of Hest documents that there are errors There are omissions of fact that are just absolutely blatant so As far as they were concerned the Hest documents themselves were already redacted rather heavily so Yeah, of course. I mean we can never trust these releases, but but in fact I think the very fact that nothing came out of it is the best confirmation we can get they wouldn't keep for 50 years Documents classified that doesn't have anything. Yeah, so this is just saying we're not gonna give you anything. Yeah Precisely. Yeah, precisely which means that there is something well Probably we had a similar situation last year when Trump released those JFK documents and all of a sudden we find out documents about Hitler Yeah, in the catcher, but there we yeah, but there we know they only released 10 or 20 percent Yeah, plus it there was so much research already plus there was such an expectation because the JFK case has You know many many people following it, but this is like a quiet thing. Yeah, I'm so I'm so happy for for picking it and Prince because without people like that Nobody would even know to so care. Yeah. Yeah, that book is absolutely. I mean, it's the essential book for the Hest case They just did an enormous amount of digging and and sorting and dot connecting. It's just It really is an extraordinary book. So I would urge people, you know, don't just read mine, but make sure that you read theirs because It's it's just full if nothing else it's full of details that are you know You know we're going to eventually connect to other things not just the Hest thing, but the other thing Yeah, but that's the same it's kind of a description. I will give a book and Unfortunately, we haven't we can't begin to cover more than a percent maybe but there is so much convincing stuff here Good documentation and very Excitingly written and I haven't read their book, but you're relying a lot of on it So I think at least begin with Joseph's book and if you hungry for more which I am then I guess the natural step would be to get their book. Yeah, absolutely. There's so many there's so many details I couldn't even discuss in my book that are in theirs that are Again, the details are just it's overwhelming and They they make a good case. I think for the Hest case being probably the most significant unresolved Historical mystery of the 20th century and I think they're absolutely right on that Absolutely right Yeah, but they missed a few big dots that you wondered a few but not many I wonder if they do you know if they read your book that I don't know I don't know you know I honestly don't know if they have or they haven't but like I say Even even if they did miss some things just the sheer amount of Mountain of data that they had to deal with and that they uncovered and sorted through and argued this connection and that connection It's you really have to doff the hat to them because they they really put this whole thing back on the map as a significant problem and as far as I'm concerned out that book is So thorough it's it's the the academic standard on that particular issue as far as I'm concerned Okay, well, I'm I'm friends with one of them on Facebook and I'm thinking of getting them on for an other Subject than this, but if I do I'm gonna ask them in your book see if they know about it Yeah, they may they may not I don't know but I'm gonna ask them yeah, okay And I mean who knows maybe if you get in connection with them Facebook or otherwise you could be more in the loop of what's going on there because the has a thing is really the big thing that just went quiet And I'm so glad you bring a light to it To the attention of and especially the people who are concerned with conspiracies They are the least informed about this. It's more in the mainstream that people have been interested in this So I think it's time for the professional conspiracy consumers to Wake into this case. It's so obvious when you go into the details of this case that we have something here It's the whole thing is a smoking gun the only thing we don't know is it's the wise the warehouse Yeah, that's the big question. Yeah, but I think you do a decent job of it and you're doing a good job today Accounting for it. Well, thank you. So yeah, I just left for me then to thank you again for our new input Well, thank the pleasure is mine now. Thank you so much for having me back on It's been enjoyable as always is with you Thanks again to dr. Forel for joining us and accounting for this incredible story that really deserves more attention As I lost analysis, I like to say that to me it seems obvious that We're dealing here with the scenario where there's a double and not has in the prison Has to be because he was killed in that plane with that Lord Forgot which one who was not on the church Hill side but belong to the so called peace faction if that is the case It is no wonder that they would suppress this fact because first of all we have the church Hill and His faction being guilty of murder not just of a foreign state had but even of a British royal and Also who knows maybe they thought well if people know that there it was chances of peace All the lost lives maybe this can come back and hunt us I Mean it's not as if the leaders of the world has not committed war crimes and worse And try to clean up their mess in fear of being whole to account Today they dismantle any semblance of a fair system so that there is Heavy detailed repercussions for the slightest Expression for ordinary people but the higher up you go the more you will get away with things and it's gotten so bad that they just Punish whistleblowers instead of what is revealed so Today it's much easier for them back during the second world war. There was Mechanisms that could be bigger of a threat So yeah if they finished off us and they pretended not to Having someone in the prison who would be a decoy for that could make sense If on the other hand it was has that Can also make sense because for the same much for the same reasons I mean if they killed him they wouldn't know how the war would go So finishing him off at that point seems Okay, they imagined they were getting home. Maybe they just thought okay, they're not prepared to make a peace plan It failed well I will now be brought home by the route that seems safest it looks to me like a typical British interlop But if he survived if it was has in the prison then Much for the same reasons they would keep this quiet and now that they wander war There would be no real threat as long as they kept him in there Keeping the information away the information that I mean they still had a blood on their hands for that plane that exploded with the Lord and maybe also one of the doubles and who knows who else they could read of in the peace faction. But moreover, keeping Hassan the Rhapsody couldn't write about the peace plan and many other state secrets, including whatever he knew about Antarctica. Now if there's a Boeman lurking in the shadows, it makes even more sense because why did Boeman keep Hitler? Although, of course, he did let him wither away in the shadows, but he needed Hitler to back him up, he needed him as a symbolic figure had done. Certainly nobody was prepared to accept Boeman as the new fueler. Unlike Hass, Boeman wouldn't want Hass to return. First of all, he could interfere with Hitler's status, he could try to restore Hitler's position, but whether Hitler was alive or not, whether he could be brought back into the light or not, certainly he would be a threat to Boeman's own position. Even being Boeman's superior, he would get access to all the money, to all the network, to all the plans he may not have agreed with much of what they had in on the agenda and what Boeman developed the exile, a Reich to become. Most certainly it wouldn't be to Hass's own taste. Especially in order to cooperate, track and maybe also making peace with the former enemies, England, America, Israel. And he was popular, people would have neonotes, are still celebrating, they're not celebrating Boeman. So Boeman will probably try to get as stay in the prison as long as possible, hopefully also that he died there the soon and the better. So it's easy to see many motives of the different scenarios and these two main scenarios, I think, are the most likely. But like we said many times in the show, this is just scratching the surface. So read Joseph's book, read Picknet and Prince's book, and whatever else, quality info you can get your hands on, if you really want to understand this mysterious post-war case. Next to JFK 9/11 and the classified space program, probably one of the biggest international plots to date and a wonderful, classical agent tale only from reality. This show will definitely be when we release it, be demonetized, like half our shows already. I'm not going to go off on a rant now explaining you how this works and what YouTube is up to, sufficient to say, all independent productions are being quenched, we are first being starved economically and gradually buried, the algorithm is influenced, we're losing views, and eventually also many of us will be just kicked out with an overt censorship. Now that the Alex Jones censoring has been, they did try it out, they probably wanted to do it for the longest time and I predicted it would happen to those of you who listen to everything we do you know, and like I mean this, I don't know why it is, but when it comes to YouTube's attitude, I've been in a hand of that since day one, maybe because it's so transparent what's going on here. So I don't know, I can't say for certain if we will be kicked out, but by the time that will happen, we will be set up other places. But already we are demonetized so half of shows are and this show will definitely be just by the very fact that it deals with the Nazis and Second World War, that's enough now. So that means all the production we've done here in terms of both the inter- you, the recording, the audio editing, the video making and there's so much energy work that goes into every single show. Much of it is invisible, I mean just uploading and putting out a show on YouTube takes hours. So much to do, so much to write, so much to fix, so much to make sure of you know idea for all of the works unless you're in production yourself. So I'm whining about this because we won't get a dime back for this effort. Not from YouTube anyway, not from advertisement, but hopefully you guys will have our back so that we can continue to produce shows you enjoy. So those of you who like this subject please help support it because otherwise if we will end up affording just making shows that YouTube will accept which really isn't that much and then it befalls upon those listeners who have a different taste in YouTube to support especially those shows that are censored. If we can't get anything back for all the censored shows, it will be harder to make them, at least we can't make that many. So I implore you to dig into your pockets and chip in whatever you can. I mean a dollar will do it if many enough does. So I think you need to know that and kind of crowd fund these ventures. Some programs we do try but they become demonetized, but some we don't even have to try. I mean as soon as for example the series show we had as soon as we put series in the title it's automatically flagged. Now of course we could put up this show and put up a picture of a baby and a duck and we could have a completely misleading title and description but yeah sure maybe it would go under the radar at least until the algorithm picked up on what was being said. But nobody would find it. How would those who are interested in serving no, it's up. So no we have to label stuff correctly so it reaches the audience and then it also reaches the cold, clammy, corporate hand of YouTube. We will continue this series soon. We'll go a little back and forth in the timeline. Currently we're around the 60s to 70s and onwards to our time. That's where biggest gap in the timeline is. We're pretty much covered everything from the 50s and back. So 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s is still left and for the next year we'll do a lot of that but we'll also change track a little and do some more spiritual shows for the lack of a better term, philosophical stuff, deeper stuff. Not only we always have a variety but that will have more of a focus and we'll do a little more political stuff also onwards and give some more attention to more neglected series of ours. But eventually all the series will be filled up and the timeline of a break of a civilization will also get so much attention for the next year and every year we'll change focus so to speak to make sure that we keep up with as many of the series as we can. That's it for today. Thank you for listening to Forum Morales. I've been your host. How much thanks to your support and the effort of my team until the next crossroads. Be serious. Always number one.