Dr. Clay Moss: On Metabolic Health, Insulin Resistance, Peptides, & Sleep Hygiene

I think a lot of people relate aesthetic health to metabolic health. You can go years and years and have chronic disease even though you look good in the mirror. You talk about how the most dangerous drug right now is comfort. And the number one side effect of comfort is chronic disease. We live in a society where everything is becoming more comfortable to us. And yet we're getting sicker as a society. And I don't think that's the incidence. When we talk about the basics to people about how impactful things like movement, stress management, community connection, and how food is medicine, they almost want to refute that because it seems like it's too easy. There's so many things that we're living with in this unnatural world nowadays that if we just kind of get back to our roots a little bit, we can fix things one by one. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of strength training, muscle, beyond just what we see in the mirror and why you think muscle is medicine? To me, muscle is the root of. [Music] Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. Today I want to introduce you to someone who is redefining what it means to actually prevent disease. Dr. Clay Moss is a functional medicine physician who looks shredded in the mirror and was metabolically falling apart on the inside. He had strep throat 22 times in four years of college. His labs told a story, his reflection never could. And that personal reckoning sent him on a mission to expose a hard truth. What looks healthy and what is healthy are two completely different things. In this conversation, we're going to go deep on fasting insulin, a biomarker that can predict disease five years before your doctor catches it. We're covering why strength training reduces mortality risk by 200 to 400 percent, more than any other drug ever created. And we're blowing the lid off the insurance system that is actively preventing you from getting the care you need. If you care about living longer, not just looking good, don't skip this one. Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist, Gary Brecco, where we go down the road of everything, anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And I am so fired up for today's podcast because in the clinical world today, you have traditionally trained physicians that are sometimes and for some reason, maybe a major life event, maybe curiosity, maybe it was because they had to solve a problem for a patient or something in their own life or transitioning now to the functional medicine side. The root cause medicine and today's guest is absolutely in that category. I'm a huge fan. We just did a whole podcast before we did the podcast. Walking around the house. Well, welcome to the podcast, Dr. Clay Moss. Yeah, man. Thank you for having me. I've been a big fan for a long time. And let's see if we still have some content left in us after all of that. Yeah. I said, this is going to be one of the easiest podcasts I've ever done because when I get people on the podcast like you, when I'm blessed enough to have real functional practitioners, especially those that have, I talk about this crossover from alipathic medicine, but it's an integration of alipathic medicine and functional diagnostics. You know, I'm just such a curious person and I'm curious on behalf of my audience. So I'm really pumped to run this for you today. Yeah, man. You know, I notice in your work and in watching a lot of the podcasts that you're done, you know, you talk a lot about metabolic health. When I accepted the chairman chip of the Maha action, Bobby Kennedy's Maha action, one of the things that that has downed me was when we look at big data and you look at 85% of chronic disease, which is where the majority of our spending are $5 trillion in spending annually is going towards chronic disease. And you look at the spending on potentially preventable chronic disease. One of the things that constantly comes up is metabolic health and metabolic syndrome. And I wonder if a lot of people really understand what that means. Like when you say metabolic syndrome to an average person, I think it sort of flies over their head. Right. So can you describe what metabolic syndrome is and what it means to be metabolically sick or metabolically healthy? So I think the easiest way to describe that is the root cause of pretty much all chronic disease starts with your metabolism, your metabolic health. And what that is, at least in my eyes, the way I explain it to people is the first thing you usually see in that is insulin resistance. So, you know, if we're eating ultra-processed food, high-carb diets, things that we really didn't use to eat back in the day, we're constantly flooding our body with insulin that we have at very high levels that we didn't use to have. And that causes a whole slew of diseases that we're seeing rise at astronomical rates in a country that is more technologically advanced than it's ever been. Yeah. It's crazy because we're going up in so many categories and yet down in our health for the first time in history. And the first time we've had a reversal in life expectancy in our recorded history was last year. You know, meaning like technically speaking, your children and my children have a shorter life expectancy than we do. Right. Statistically speaking. So it's frightening. So metabolic health begins with or metabolic disease begins with insulin resistance. You know, and I am of the school that insulin resistance and high glycemic profiles are like the root of all evil. When you look at like, you know, what are some of the first dominoes to fall in this whole consequential series of conditions? If I was to only pick one and there's it's multifactorial. But if I was to only pick one, I would agree that insulin resistance. Yeah. And I even started to see this in myself when I was in college. So I grew up kind of with a human performance lens on medicine. I actually was born and raised in the Panhandle, Florida, the Andrews Institute, which at the time and still is to an extent, the mecca of sports medicine moved to my hometown. And so I'd be walking home from school and see these amazing athletes that you would only see on documentaries or live in games, you know, walking by my high school or I would walk home and see them kind of through the through the gate a little bit from the other side. And so I always grew up with this this vision of human performance and how do I get there in the school of medicine? How do I become a physician and work in that avenue? And when I got into college, I had a complete identity crisis. I didn't know anybody in college. I started having panic attacks. I really didn't know who I was anymore. You know, I grew up in the same hometown. I knew who I was. I was an athlete. Everybody knew me. I knew everybody. And then you go to somewhere new and you're out of your element. You don't play sports anymore. Yeah. You know, you're trying to socialize. People don't know who you are. And I fell in love with weightlifting. And that just kind of became my, you're pretty pretty jacked. I've got a lot of people more jacked to me on the podcast. But can we actually take him down a few notches? Yeah, well, AI edit this. Yeah, yeah, they'll AI edit it. But the point I'm trying to make though is that I was still not taking care of myself from a baseline level. So even though I got so into weightlifting and athletics and quote unquote, aesthetic health, I had strapped throughout 22 times within four years while I was in college. So I was pretty much going to the the doctor or the urgent care once every two months, getting diagnosed with strap, giving getting antibiotics, getting shot of steroids and then being sent on my way, going to come back two months later and nobody asked about my sleep, my caffeine intake, what I was eating on a daily basis. The last, you know, how close to bedtime am I eating? How many days of week in my training? I was training seven days a week. How, you know, I'm having pre-work out at 5 p.m. But I looked good in the mirror. And so I just assumed like, if I look good in the mirror, then this all has to be happening to me, not because of me or something that I'm doing. And so I think a lot of people relate aesthetic health to metabolic health. And I've come to realize that the mirror is really poor judge of what's inside. And so we're trying to chase both aesthetics because I do think there is some power behind looking good and feeling good. But also what's on the inside too because you can go years and years and have chronic disease even though you look good in the mirror. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And so when was it, was there like a eureka moment, was it an aha moment or was it sort of this slow transition from traditional alopathic medicine to really wanting to be back at the root cause of medicine? Like what was the, because you've really gone deep down the rabbit hole of peptides and functional medicine. And you know, what I would call this new surge in interest in longevity and anti-aging and bio optimization and not just living but thriving. Was there like a single aha moment or is there something that sort of evolved while you were in your medical training? And you said, I really want to open my eyes to peptides and some of these other modalities that are available and not outside of the traditional alopathic program. Yeah, I think it started when I was a patient back then. I think I developed some, somewhat of a hatred towards the medical system while I was trying to chase to become a physician. Yeah. Because I was just constantly being put through the ringer. I had to strap 22 times in those four years. I was convinced to get my tonsils out. I got my tonsils out. I got six weeks after getting my tonsils out and they told me that wasn't possible. I was convinced to get sinus surgery because I literally couldn't hear my professors. I would call my parents and tears like trying to to study for the MCAT. So many things just gave me a little bit. little bit more of a deep dive into what patients actually go through when they are being let down by the medical system. And so I went into medical school. I thought that I was going to do surgery because that was the only lens that I had seen human performance through when I was young. I just thought, "Oh, orthopedic surgeons, that's what I'll do." And that's the only avenue to get there. And COVID hit towards the end of my first year of medical school. We all went home. I ended up getting a job at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition. And so I was working with these really cool-- Human and Machine Cognition. Yeah. So I was doing some DARPA-funded projects for Special Forces guys. And so I pretty much got to be in the sun and play with AR-15s the entire summer. That's cool. Over COVID summer. And it's funny because I was outside all the time. I got to go home. I got to actually stay grounded. I came back to school so much healthier than I was before. And then I went right into kind of the second half of the didactic learning and the clinicals. And what I learned was, I want to go back. I want to go back to the human performance stuff. How do I get a medical profession that allows me to do what I was just doing last summer? And so I go into these clinicals right in kind of the peak of COVID. And the veil gets lifted a little bit on some of the negative things that were going on in the medical community. I was forced to get the COVID vaccine. I was told that I would get kicked out of medical school. And at the time I was actually kind of drinking that cool aid. I told my friends I was like, you know, I think you might be selfish if you don't go get the vaccine because I was -- I think a lot of people did. I mean, yes. As soon as I got the vaccine, I had a lymph node, the size of a softball for six weeks of my armpit. I had chest pain that sent me to the emergency room twice. Sent you to the emergency room. I chronic brain fog. I might exercise tolerant, like went to the floor. So many different things happened. Whenever I started to bring it up to my classmates or professors, it was kind of like this. Don't talk about it. It couldn't have been the COVID shot. Maybe it was just COVID. To coincidence, yeah. Then I get into the clinicals. And, you know, we -- I go into my emergency room rotation. We have patients that come in after car accidents. Anybody that comes into the hospital is tested for COVID. And one of them happened to test positive. And that patient passed away, unfortunately, from the injuries of his car accident. And is being labeled as a COVID-related death. So during that time -- You actually saw this happen. Right. And so during that time, there was a lot of things that made me think like, I don't want to be a part of this. I want to go to more of a preventative style of health. I don't want to deal with health insurance. Like, I don't want to be under that model. I think the health insurance model takes the art out of medicine in many ways. It makes it very algorithmic. For sure. If this, then that. Exactly. And it's labeled as, oh, this makes it more efficient and more effective. When that's not really true, it takes the human out of medicine. That's what it really does. So I decided I didn't want to go into surgery because, you know, surgery is one of those things that something's broken by the time they're coming to you. You're not preventing anything. You're just kind of trying to fix the problem and have those patients who probably see again because they're not fixing anything at a baseline level. Same thing with, like, you know, internal medicine when you're in the hospital or all those other specialties, which I'm not hating on those. We're amazing. We're the best at treating a acute condition. Oh, no question. No. But it just wasn't for me. So I approached my mentor and I said, hey, look, I don't want to do surgery. He told me that he would look into PM and R, which for your viewers and probably you, I don't know if you know, PM and R stands for physical medicine and rehabilitation or physiatry or PM and R. There's like 10 different names. And that's probably why nobody knows what the hell it is. Yeah. But basically what that is is a specialty that asks the question, what are you capable of instead of what's wrong with you? And so I started looking into it and kind of the history behind PM and R is it started back in World War II, back in the FDR days whenever you got polio or what we thought was polio, probably was, you know, Guillain-Bray or something. But the whole country was looking towards physicians to create more of a system that allows us to deal with soldiers coming back from World War II dealing with insane injuries that we didn't see beforehand. Right. And we create this kind of rehabilitative space that medicine could be a part of. And from then that's transpired into, you know, inpatient care for traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injury, stroke, amputations. And then the outpatient side is more like nonoperative sports medicine, interventional pain. So things like spinal injections. And all of that to say, I kind of look back now at my time as a kid at the Andrews Institute, like peaking through the glass. And I realized that half those doctors that I thought were orthopedic surgeons were PM and R doctors. And so I knew that I wanted to go into a more functional style practice. And I figured that if I could just take everything that I knew or was going to learn currently, I mean, residency in PM and R and apply that to before disability or function is lost. Yes. You know, I think that's such a great, you have a saying that's, so I have a saying that aging is the aggressive pursuit of comfort. And you talk about how the most dangerous drug right now is comfort. Yeah. For sure. I mean, we live in a society where everything is becoming more comfortable to us. And I don't think that's coincidence. Yeah. You know, if you want protein to build lean muscle, but without the caloric impact or need to cut, you need perfect amino. It's pure essential amino acids, the building blocks of proteins in a precise form and ratio that allows for near 100% utilization in building lean muscle and no caloric impact. So we build protein six times as much as way, but without the excess body fat, we normally get during bulking. This is the new era of protein supplementation and it's real. If you want to build lean muscle without having to cut, you need perfect amino. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So you think that these, you know, if someone's listening to this podcast and I'm going to go down the road of, I'm going to touch on female hormone therapy. I certainly want to take a little dive into peptides and, and GLP ones because you, you, you sort of view them as a double-edged sword, which I would agree with. But if we were taking a step back and, and someone was like, you know, look, I am in the pursuit of living the healthiest, happiest, longest life that I could live. Where does somebody start? What are the biomarkers that they should be aware of and familiar with kind of testing should they do to develop this baseline? And what is sort of a blanket recommendation that you would give to every patient that walks to your door? Hey, you know, get your arms around these three, four, five things. We'll take a deep dive into your labs and then we'll, we're going to go from there. Yeah. So I think we're visual beings. Like I think we want to see results not only in our body and the mirror, but we also want to gamify things. So in my mind, you know, me going and getting comprehensive labs, it's almost a competition to myself of like, let's see if I can do things from here in the next six months so that the next time that I test, I know that I'm in a little bit better space than I was the last time. Yeah. And that was nothing. That was something that I didn't go through when I was a patient. And actually, I didn't even get labs drawn one time whenever I would get tested for strap and there were no follow-up visits. There was no trying to get to the root cause. And what I saw in the clinical space in, you know, family medicine and internal medicine practices outpatient was that we were doctors can only see patients for like six to 12 minutes nowadays. And so not only do you take the physical exam part out of it because you can't have the time to do that and take a history and do all those things that we used to do very well, but we also don't get enough labs. Like insurance isn't covering for a lot of these labs like APOB for your cholesterol because we know that that's considerably better than a lot of these like LDL markers. Sure. And so that's probably my number one favorite lab on the planet because that goes out of whack, you know, possibly five years before your A1C goes out of whack and so we can figure out if you're headed towards metabolic disease considerably earlier if your fasting insulin is elevated. And what would be elevated? So I would say anything above 10 would probably I would consider elevated. You want to get as close to five if not below five. If I said say in a fasted state, you know, I would try to aim anywhere between two and four. Ideally, but around five is not bad either. But yeah, I mean, I see people that have normal A1Cs and a fasting insulin of 19 and it's like, you know, the train wrecks coming. Exactly. But that same person will be sent home by their primary care doctor and they say everything looks good. You know, and when you have these elevated insulin levels too, you tend to see triglyceride levels follow because, you know, that that insulin is barring that a little bit of that fatty but it's blunting that capacity to use, you know, fat as an energy source. And so it builds up in one of the first places it builds up in the blood. And I would argue that there is a much higher correlation between elevated triglycerides and elevated cholesterol than elevated cholesterol on its own. Right. Right. And these hyper triglycerideemia, which I don't know that there's a really good pharmacological solution to, but there's really good lifestyle solutions to. You know, precedes a lot of these cardiovascular risk markers and yet we go just after that LDL cholesterol. You know, you see on most of these panels, it's HDL, LDL, VLDL, triglyceride, that's kind of it. Right. And everybody's looking at their total cholesterol and saying that number when that number really is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Right. And why is it meaningless? Well, it's because it's a breakdown of all of those other things, right? Like if you could have so many different ratios of your HDL to VLDL, to LDL. And so saying total cholesterol is meaningless. and the point that you have to take a deeper dive like we're talking about. - And others of itself is not diagnostic for cardiovascular disease. - Yeah, it's just saying like, oh, there might be a problem, but not actually telling you anything about the story. - Yeah, so you want people to look at their insulin, their fasting insulin, so they're probably also the glucose and hemoglobin anyone see to see where they're staying. What are the markers do you think that people should become familiar with and get their arms around to get on this gamified schedule? 'Cause I love that idea of, you know, I think a lot of people are like, well, if I don't know, it's probably better, you know, 'cause everybody thinks, well, when would I get this tested? I find something really, really bad. Well, if you do, then you can fix it. You're probably catching it early. And we know in nearly every form of disease and pathology, early detection is your best way, you know, out. But so insulin, like your glycemic profile, what other markers do you think are important, especially in the younger generation, to look at, you know, as developing this baseline so they can make modifications? Well, I think the hormonal stuff too. I think it's good to have a baseline of testosterone, not saying that you should get onto testosterone replacement therapy when you're 17 or 18. But at least knowing what your baseline is, whenever your peak puberty, right after puberty, kind of in your prime years, so that when you get to that, you know, 30, 40, 50 year old mark, and you're having symptoms like brain fog, fatigue, little libido, you can see what your levels are then, compare them back to whenever you were 18, 20, 25, 30, and see if that might be the problem, right? 'Cause if you're at a testosterone of 450 or 500, since 18, and you never had problems, and then you test it 40, and it's 450 or 500, one doctor that only sees one value might say, "Oh, it's probably your testosterone will give you that." But it's like, "No, I didn't have problems back then." And it was the same marker. So I'm a big fan of trending everything, because that's the big thing. It's like, sure, it's great if you go get comprehensive lapsed on once. And we can tell a lot from that. But what's so much better is tracking those over years, because then we can see a cute change. And we talk about other lab values. Home assisting is a great one, just to track overall inflammation load in your body, highly correlated to methyl A to B vitamins two, and that just intake and how well your body is to methyl A. And then you've talked about MTH-4. - Yeah, MTH-4. - High-sense to BCRP kind of tracks the same sort of metric, but a little bit more geared toward cardiovascular health. There's so many different things that we just don't include in the regular panel. That whenever I have a friend that says, "Oh, I just went and got routine blood work, and they send me their blood work." I'm like, there's five or six different things that could really make a better picture here. - I want to get these numbers right, which is why I'm looking at this paper. But along with the colleague of yours, you helped develop, now published, actually, inpatient metabolic rehabilitation protocol. - So yeah, so-- - I think this is fascinating. - So I will give full credit to Dr. Joe Stanley. He's over at the James Haley VA. He's the one that's put this together, I'm really just a supporting role backup dancer for him. - Backup dancer. - But yeah, no, he's very passionate about it. And part of the reason why I chose the program that I went to is because I was doing my residency interviews, and I told all these program directors, like, "Hey, I want to go into functional medicine, more lifestyle approach, kind of a root cause approach, maybe not even in the health insurance space." And I had five or 10 program directors look at me, like, "You're crazy, you don't want to go into academic medicine, we don't want you at this program." And that's fine. These guys that I work with currently were like that from the get-go, and it's hard to find people like that, especially the VA hospital. I just don't see a lot of nuance there, not saying that's not. But he really went the extra mile, and checked off so many boxes, 'cause there's so much paperwork to get anything done in the government sector. - Oh yeah. - And has created this amazing program where we'll take one patient at a time who was originally in our inpatient rehab setting. Let's say they got a knee replacement name. They came to us. If they were an appropriate candidate and seemed motivated, we would talk to them, like, "Hey, we do this intensive program "where you can come for like two weeks, "and we'll teach you how to cook, "we'll teach you what supplements that you can get, "we'll do a full in-depth lab analysis on you, "we'll teach you how to go to sleep hygiene." I mean, we really start from a bottom-up approach, and then we track their lab values over time, and they come back to us, and not only do they lose weight, their depression scores go down. They don't need enough as many medications, as once we're on. Their total body inflammation goes down, their arthritis goes away. I mean, all of these things in real time, not that I've been there long enough and get to track these patients have gone down. And so it's now it's starting to raise the question in the government sector of like, "Oh, well, if we could do this in an efficient way "from the get-go, from the very beginning, "that we avoid all of these patients coming into the hospital "later on." Shout out to Dr. Stanley, 'cause he's been amazing at that. - You know, Bobby Kennedy talks about that too. He's like, it's one thing to fix the broken system. It's another thing to just keep people out of the system. I just wanna read some of these markers, 'cause for those, my audience that understands what these mean, this is a seven day intensive program that pretty pretty remarkable results. So in 36 days, one patient example, a solid triglycerides drop from 140, which isn't still extraordinarily high, but it's elevated 140 to 55. So that's two thirds. LDL cholesterol cut in half from 130 to 66. Fastened glucose from 145 to 121. And maybe the most remarkably, homelessness team cut almost exactly 50% from 9.6 to 4.3. All without a single new prescription. So no additional chemicals, synthetics or pharmacological intervention. Food, movement, stress management, and intention. I love the use of that word intention. One of the fascinating things about the research that we did in the mortality space was we knew that if you wanted to cut human beings' life expectancy in half, all you had to do was put them in isolation. And when we talk about the basics to people about how impactful things like movement, stress management, intention, community connection, and how food is medicine, they almost want to refute that because it seems like it's too easy. - And I would say probably the biggest thing that we did in that program is, and we've had multiple other patients since then. That was kind of the first one that we were, oh, this works. - Yeah, yeah. - But the biggest thing we probably did, other than sleep hygiene, which I think is amazing, and we're all missing. - Yeah, I want to talk about that too. - Yeah, as we did a full elimination diet for 30 days, and we put people back to a baseline level of inflammation. - What does that look like? What is an elimination diet? - So it's basically cutting out things like, you're gluten, you're soy, highly processed foods, pretty much everything that has a high tendency to be reactive in a lot of people. And it's not like you're just eating one thing over and over again. You can still have a pretty decent diet doing that. But we cut it down for 30 days completely. Like no questions asked. We have to cut all these things out. - It was limited. Soy, dairy. - I believe it was soy, dairy, gluten, any processed foods. Good. We kept red meat as long as it was grass fed, grass finished. So we made sure that everything was sourced correctly, or at least tried to be. Sometimes people's, while they can't pay for certain uptears or whatever, which is fine. So we kind of worked with everybody on what we could afford, what we can't, how we're gonna do it. And any artificial dyes, we kind of went into the weeds a little bit on that. And then after those 30 days, it was a renal alcohol. That's a big one. It's a massive one. - It's a massive one. - And then after 30 days, we would reintroduce one thing at a time for a few days at a higher doses. So we didn't reintroduce starches. And then we'd reintroduce gluten back into the diet. And if that person starts to, and they're taking surveys this whole time of their fermentation, how they feel, their pain. And if those levels start to drop, then we're like, okay, that's a problem. Let's cut that one back out. We'll reintroduce one more thing. - And so it makes people more aware of like, what they put in their body is how they're going to feel. - Yeah. And then in addition to that, we're there because you talk about stress management. And then I wanna talk about sleep hygiene, but what did you do for stress management? Were this meditation? Was it breath work? Was it exercise? Was it combination? - Yeah. Artherapist work with the veterans and try to figure out what they wanna do. 'Cause if you don't wanna do it, then there's no point in doing it, right? A lot of them in the VA system did Tai Chi, which is amazing because not only are you moving, but you're also getting a mindfulness aspect out of it. So you're kind of killing two birds with one stone, right? It's a little bit of a biohacking at own. 'Cause you're getting a little bit of a workout and movement out of it. And you're providing mindfulness, lowering stress levels. And so I think that was probably the most impactful for them. Some of them did meditation, some did yoga. It just depends on what their baseline functionality was like to some people couldn't tolerate yoga or Tai Chi. So we started with meditation. - And then did you make mobility like non-negotiable in this? Like any form of exercise? - Any form of exercise. Even if it was walking, I mean, we have patients that can't walk to the end of their driveway, right? So like let's make it to the first crack of the driveway on Wednesday. And then let's see Friday if we can make it two steps past that. I mean, it's about meeting patients where they are. So, and we don't compare to anybody else that came before them or after them. And then after this whole thing, this is like one of the best things that I think. After they go through this whole protocol, we introduce them to those patients who had gone through the protocol before and volunteered to become part of a support group. So that when they get through it to the other side. - Dude, I love this. They have like a wellness support group. This is awesome. - It's amazing. - Yeah, 'cause then you feel like you're part of a community. You feel, yeah. feel connected, which is one of the areas of medicine we really talk about. When people feel isolated, I mean, if you look at the number of these horrific crimes that are committed by, you know, very often by teenagers, but they feel completely isolated. You know, they don't have best friends and a friend circle in community and connection. They feel like a loner. And I think, you know, this exacerbates all forms of mental illness, you know, PTSD. And when people feel like I'm the only one that has this, nobody understands me. I'm unique in my suffering profile. There are number one, probably less likely to raise her hand to get help. And number two, they just get inside of their own head. And this becomes a like a snowball rolling downhill. It's a perfect storm with so many different things. You take social isolation. And then you take what's in our food nowadays. You take the amount of prescriptions that we're giving people with multiple drug interactions. You take the vitamin deficiencies that those prescriptions cause. And those side effects, there's so many different things that you take the food that they're eating. I know you've probably seen the prison studies where they reintroduce whole food diets back into prison systems. And violence goes down. Violence goes down tremendously. There's also, you know, with kids in ADHD, you know, putting them on a whole foods diet has the same effect, if not better effect than putting them on medication. So there's so many things that we're living with in this unnatural world nowadays that if we just kind of get back to our roots a little bit, we can fix things one by one. Yeah, I totally agree. You know, you often them talks about GLP ones. And I feel like GLP ones are kind of this double edged sword. I mean, certainly they can be life saving for people that are morbidly obese or type to diabetics, have a lot of food noise in their, you know, just in their environment because I would put sugar addiction and food addiction right up there with nicotine, with alcohol, with some of the most difficult, you know, addictions that we suffer from. And I think because food is such a widely accepted resource, it's easy to have that addiction right in plain sight. You know, it's not like you're pulling out of handle of vodka, you know, you're just going for a twinkie, you know, and so, you know, food noise, food addiction, you know, morbidode BC type 2 diabetes, I think these are areas where GLP ones have a massive role. But now, I mean, if you're listening to this podcast then don't know one person that's on a GLP one, I would be shocked. Yeah. You know, it's not six degrees of separation, more it's one degree of separation. Definitely. And but you feel like there are a double edge or two for sure. And for what reason? So kind of going back to what you said, I think nowadays we're being targeted with sugar in our face all the time. You go to the movie theater and before you can even watch the movie, you watch that like, salivating video of a coke being poured into a bottle and you're just sitting there like, man, I need to go get a coke downstairs. And so it's constantly in our face. And so it's worse than it was 50 years ago for like my parents or my grandparents. So I do think there is a little bit of targeting that goes on there. And at GLP ones, so what I'm seeing on the plus side, yes, it's taking people that maybe have passed their threshold of point of no return and giving them a tool to be able to get back to a healthier life. And that's what we need to be treating it as is a tool, not the not the miracle pill, not like, you know, the fountain of youth, but just a tool to be able to use in the grand scheme of things. And I think the problem that we're all facing is that in a lot of people, we're trading obesity for sarcopenia. Yes. We're not only exactly. So we're not only have more fat than we need to in society. We also have less muscle. And that's the double edged sword right there. Because if, let's just say you take a GLP one and you lose a bunch of fat, but you also lose all your muscle. And then you try to get off the GLP one muscle is the biggest metabolic organ that we have. It's a huge glucose sink that's independent of insulin. So regardless of your insulin insensitivity or sensitivity, you know, if you eat a big meal and you have a lot of muscle mass and you are using your muscle, it's a sponge. It doesn't even use insulin to do that process. So it takes it out of your blood. It gives you that buffer from maybe a poor diet every other day or whatever. And people are completely missing that. So we'll get skinny, but in a weird way, they're actually getting fatter because their overall ratio of fat to muscle has actually gotten worse. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast. And then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak. And you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the ultimate human community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than $100 a month. Your health is your wealth and this investment pays dividends for life. Join the VIP community at the ultimatehuman.com/vip and step into your ultimate potential. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Hmm. And I like that you think that metabolic testing and BMI testing should be a part of everyone's protocol, understand where they are with their muscle and their fat and their visceral fat. So do you think GLP ones have a place in functional medicine if done properly with strength training and let's say in the addition of peptides? 100%. I used to be anti-GLP one. When I first came out, I was one of those people that was like, no, I think this is the main of all. I mean, they can't have read a true tide. I think that is going to be huge whenever it becomes more available. But I will now we're seeing that it's cardio protective, even though they control for weight loss. So even the people that lost less weight or more weight had the same cardio protective effect from GLP ones possible cancer protective effect. So there's all this data that's coming out of the user's cognitive. Exactly. For sure. And so we're starting to see all these things that it could play a good role in as being another tool in the tool belt. But you and I were talking earlier, I think one of the first steps is putting that conversation back into the clinic setting rather than the back alley black market setting because we're not once the FDA listens up a little bit on peptides. I'm hoping that people don't have to be that very finding things. I think the risk is and I hear physicians very often attack peptides and they will say things like there's no safety data. There's no real gold standard data, gold standard science on it that is patently false. In fact, I'll make available as a link an academic weight paper with with almost 800 cited research studies behind it. And some of these were gold standard studies that led to pharmaceutical approvals in other countries. I think we are going to see certain number of peptides, probably 14 of these peptides moved back on to the bulk list and be compounded by compound pharmacies so that you get stability, stability, potency, where appropriate guarantees you get beyond use states so that these peptides are not expiring. You get mixing and dosing instructions. You get a protocol that doesn't help you build tackle of elaxis, this desensitization response. I think the future for peptides is very bright. I do so. And I'm an enormous fan of peptides. I'd love to hear where you fall and what are some of your favorites. How would they be used and what your clinical experiences with them? This is the most exciting frontier of medicine in my opinion. I love it. I'm a massive fan of peptides. And so, and one of the sad things too, we talked earlier about how the health insurance model kind of takes the art out of medicine a little bit. I have talked to physicians that work at some of the highest performance academic centers in the world and ask them about peptides and kind of get the answer like, oh yeah, like I've heard about them. I don't really know much about them. Yeah. And it's like, okay, it's 2026. If you're a physician that's taken care of really high level athletes or just high performing people and you don't you're just not in the system. First of all, you're probably working, you know, eight to six every single day, seeing patients six minutes a day. You don't have time to look up the studies or look up what peptides are. But also, it's just not in that setting. And so, it's really sad that we're we've taken peptides out of the academic space because we don't have the people that really need to get the word out on them and and get more data and get better data on these things to head up those conversations. And so, we need to get that back into the real world clinical setting because it's so exciting. I'm not saying every peptide is great. There are probably multiple peptides that I wouldn't recommend people. But at least if we give it to a patient and provider interaction again instead of like going and buying it from some third party, you know, back alley online place, then you can have the conversations about, you know, safety versus side effects. What's the risk benefit ratio? What is this going to give you? How to how to mix it? I mean, I mean, nixing is probably the biggest-- - Mixing and gyozing is the biggest. - All of these nightmare stories that you hear, a lot of them come from people that just don't mix it correctly and they're giving themselves an insane dose or no dose. - Right. - So yeah, I really hope that they loosen the grip a little bit so that we as physicians can start learning about them more 'cause many of us don't know anything about it. And then also put it back in the clinical setting so that we can talk to patients about it in a safe way. - Yeah, I completely agree with you. I'd like to go through some of the peptides because peptides, first of all insulin is a peptide. GOP1 is a peptide. We make a lot of these peptides endogenously. It's not a voodoo sort of fringe area of science that a couple of Jim bros got together and you started making cocktails, like a lot of these storms and things like that that you see online. These are valid amino acid analogues. They're hopefully made by licensed compound pharmacies. They're done with, you know, in ISO 90001 clean rooms, positive pressure rooms with real, you know, parameters around them so that the dosage and then the strength and the potency can be guaranteed and having been in the functional space now for about 10 years. You know, we have really seen, I don't always say miracles with peptides, but you know, when people are recovering from post-surgical, injuries when they're trying to improve their performance, when they're trying to improve their recovery, especially in athleticism, you know, most athletes are not over trained, they're just under recovered. So what have we dove into this category of peptides and take GOP1s, for example, something like a redded true tide? What's the appropriate profile for someone that is interested in getting on redded true tide? And when should they be considering something like that? - Yeah, well, I think it comes in the whole picture, right? Like if you get full metabolic lab testing, you have that conversation with your practitioner. You have some sort of metabolic disease that you want to address, whether that be, you know, central obesity or, you know, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, that's the one that they really did all the studies on. - For redded true tide. And it's an amazing medication for decreasing the amount of fat in your liver, which we actually didn't really have any medications for prior to that. I think that at the highest dose, it had like a 100% cure rate of, or sorry, a cure of 80 something percent of people that were in the study at the highest dose over a span of like 50 weeks or something, which is insane. I mean, that's really stubborn fat that's wedged into a vital organ that we're able to get down. So in that sense, I think it's amazing. We can target these certain things that we know cause a lot of harm down the road. But also like, you know, some people want to do it to, because they're obese and they just want to lose weight and like they want an extra tool in the toolbell. And I think that's okay. As long as you're getting enough protein, you're strength training and you're doing it under the guidance of a physician and you know your risks, then I think we should be able to have these conversations and not talk down on people for getting on a GLP1 and doing these things. - Right, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I think there'll be a lot more common as, as, you know, functional practitioners realize that these are more than just a weight loss tool. And when they use the full spectrum of the implication of these peptides, let's talk a little bit about vanity because most people want to look better, they want to feel better, they want to have more muscles, they want to have less fat, they want to have clear skin. So in the world of peptides, and there's the category of growth hormone peptides, GLP's, GLHRH's, where do you fall in the growth hormone peptides? I've certainly taken them with phenomenal results. I think I'm in pretty good shape for 55 year old them and hanging with these 25 year old people and more than with my son. I don't think that, and by no means am I here to tell you how to get jacked, I'm not jacked and I'm not a weight lifter and I'm not a body builder, but I do feel amazing. - Yeah. - And I don't have any knee hip shoulder, rotator cuff, low back pain, and I exercise pretty intensely. I really attribute that to peptides because I can tell if I'm not regularly on BPC157 and TB500, if I am not cycling growth hormone peptides, I notice degradation in my sleep. I notice a degradation in my recovery almost instantly within four or five days. It can be like, I'm off my peptide dose. And I'm pretty militant about monitoring labs. I haven't seen inflammatory markers rise. I haven't seen markers rise in any of my liver enzymes or alkaline phosphatase. I haven't seen reductions in EGFR. I mean, my kidney function increases in bone creatin. So I'm absolutely convinced that these can be a tool and people's toolbox to reach their goals. - I did 75 hard over the holidays, which was difficult when you're going home. - Did you actually do it? - I did. - You read the books the whole day? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - The outside workouts are tough too. I love it. - It's hard. - Yeah, granted when you're in Florida, it makes it a little bit easier than that. - Yeah, Florida is, yeah. - Michigan's hard to do 75 hard. That's 75 super hard. - Exactly. Yeah, so 75 kind of hard for us, I guess. But I used peptides in order to kind of help my process along. So I was taking BPC157 and B500. I did that for three or four weeks in the first stretch, just because I had never worked out at that volume before and tracked my WUP data. And it was crazy because I just figured it would have more of a local response on any aches and pains, but my WUP data was amazing. I was getting green recoveries even though I was working out twice a day. Could be placebo. - Yeah. - So it was a hell of a drug. But I was doing that. I was taking Cermorellan for a little bit of a growth hormone boost during that under the guidance. - I don't know which take that at night before bed. - Yep. - An injection at night before bed, five days a week, two days off. Under the guidance of a clinician. So I took my lab, I took my labs before and after two. And all of my lab results actually got better, not worse. So I was doing this under good care and guidance. - So you're taking the BPC and the TB500 for tissue and wound repair. - Exactly. - Can you talk a little bit about to the extent that you know that the mechanism of action of these and you know why would somebody take BPC157 or TB500? - Yeah, so I know that they're a really great anti-inflammatory. We don't really have a lot of data around whether you should inject it locally versus subcutaneous. But just the anecdotal data that I've heard from numerous people with aches and pains in certain areas that do inject it more locally, they tend to get better a lot faster than they would before. So I was doing it, you know, I had like some golfers elbow that I was working out with and just kind of pushing through and so I was injecting it locally into that area. Got better within a couple of weeks. Then after that got better, I was just injecting it subcutaneously and I just felt like I wasn't getting those like next day aches and pains like I was previously. And I'm 28 years old. So it's like what level was I really? Before I think that you know, an older population might have a little bit better bang for your buck in some peptides because your body decreases the amount of those hormones that it makes over time. So I kind of went low and slow and it really helped me. I mean, it really did. I did not expect to have as positive of an experience with that high volume of training that I did. You know, you've also talked about it. I want to go back to the muscle for a second. Gabriel Lyons says, "Muscle is our metabolic currency. You've talked about muscle is medicine." I've heard Mark Heimann say, "If you want to live a long life, lift heavyweight." Yeah. So, you know, there are, you know, a lot of iconic figures in this space that are really trying to draw people's attention back to strength training muscle. You know, I notice in my parents that are, they're older. They're both my mom's 82, my dad's 82. They're both very deconditioned. And, you know, my father, because he's partially handicapped. My mom, bilateral knee replacements. And cognition follows this decline in muscle function. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of strength training muscle beyond just what we see in the mirror and why you think muscle is medicine? Well, one, I think we've just been paying attention to cardio for like the last 40 or 50 years. And we've realized that we're leaving an entirely important sector of human health, especially physical health on the table, which is strength training. Yeah. And I think strength training got a bad rap from like all the gym bros back in the day wanting to just get bigger. Yeah. And we've just kind of disregarded that. We look at the mortality data. I think, you know, being strong compared to being weak has somewhere in between a, you know, 200 and 400 percent difference in overall mortality risk, right? Absolutely. Which is massive. I mean, if you look at things like diabetes or hypertension or smoking, it doesn't even compare to that. And there's no pharmacological intervention that even remotely moves the needle like that. Right. So like, yeah, like if let's just say, you know, you have diabetes, you can supplement insulin for diabetes for a pancreas that's not putting enough out or for pancreas that's putting too much out and you're not sensitive. You can't supplement for being under muscle, right? So it's something that we don't really have a fix for on the medical side. And so it's really in the hands of the patient to be able to do that. And there's so many benefits. I mean, an increased brain-derabinorotropic factor. So you talk about the cognition. It also is that glucose sink. So maybe you become a little bit less insulin resistant, which does wonders for your mentality too. You've talked about Alzheimer's being type three diabetes. Right? So muscle is in this grand scheme of being able to get you to a better level of metabolic health that all of these diseases stem from. So to me, muscle is the root of where all disease stems off from. Yeah. And I think that another message that is starting to resonate in our industries that it's never too late to start string training. And you know, there are people listening to podcasts that are in their 60s, 70s, maybe even in their 80s, like my parents. And the benefits that they, even if they have gone their entire lifetime relatively sedentary, or it's been years since they've been on a, you know, practice field for any kind of support. There is enormous benefits from even starting today with the string training program, resistance training program. There was a lift more study. I believe I came out a few years ago was looking at, I think it was primarily women age 65 and older that either had osteoporosis or osteopenia. And they compared two groups of women. One of them was lifting heavy, like five rep max heavy for multiple compound movements, where the other was doing more like 12 to 20 repetitions, which is kind of what we originally would put people on because 20 years ago we'd say, "Anybody that age don't lift heavy because you'll break something." Right. But when you see, what you see if they're doing it in this controlled setting with a trainer that's making sure they have good form, not only did we stagnate bone mineral loss, we increased bone mineral density, which we never thought was possible before. Incredible. Yeah. So you have all these people that we've been telling like, "Oh yeah, we just want to like play it safe now and just try to minimize how much bone elus is like." No, no, no, if you're 70 years old, you can still increase your bone mineral density if you get on a good regimen. And it doesn't mean you have to go and start powerlifting in the gym. Yeah. But go in the gym, maybe get a personal trainer one or two times just to teach you how to do something and just get moving because it has so many good benefits to it. If you know me, you know I'm a huge believer in the benefits of hydrogen water. H2TAP delivers cost-effective portable tablets that generate ultra clean molecular hydrogen at 12 parts per million, one of the highest concentrations on the market with over 1300 published studies showing benefits of oxidative stress, energy, recovery, brain function, and so much more taking charge of your health has never been easier or more cost-effective. Just drop a tablet in water, let it dissolve, and drink it back. It's less than a dollar a day. Science-packed and part of my daily routine. I never travel without this and it is my favorite biohack. Visit drinkh2tap.com. That's drinkh2tap.com and upgrade your hydration today. Yeah. I think it's hard to talk about metabolic health and longevity without bringing hormones into the picture. You know, one of the things I really applaud the FDA for doing was removing the black box warnings from female hormone therapy. You know, Marty McAry has talked about how 50 million women unnecessarily suffered because of these black box warnings that basically bastardized women's health initiative study and made women and practitioners think twice about hormone therapy because it increased their risk of breast cancer. Years ago there were these correlated links between stem cells and cancer, when we basically started peeling back the layer of the onion wasn't coming from the stem cells coming from the procedure. And so shedding a light on some of these misnomers, it's so astounding to me how long sometimes it takes to turn the aircraft carrier in medicine. Like how long do we sit with this food pyramid? How horrible is the war on saturated fat? You know, front cover of time magazine, which literally led to this decades-long war on saturated fat? The demonization of salt over sugar. I mean, there's homeless things that have-- And yet the entire time in this hockey sticks bike in chronic disease. So how important is it to have your hormones checked? Are you a fan of bioidentical hormone therapy? For 100%. Yeah, 100%. And do you have an experience in female hormone therapy? So I'll tell you this right now, one of my number one regrets, and it's granted it's nothing that I could have done, but is not knowing how beneficial female hormones were 10 years ago because my own mother didn't get on them. And now she's 60, 61 years old. It's harder for her to tolerate after she's gone, 10 plus years in menopause. And I just know all the benefits that those can cause if you're able to do it in a smooth transitional way. Now, women can get on hormones later and still have good benefit. But if you're able to do it in that perfect balanced ballet of going into menopause and being able to transition through that process with a good hormone clinic or physician that's well versed in doing those things, then it's amazing for women. Because women have been looked down on for so many years. I remember when I was in medical school and I was talking to menopausal age women and they'd be telling me that they're having brain fog, less libido, fatigue, night sweats, all these things. And then I go and talk to the practitioner that I was working with and they're like, oh, yeah, that's just what women go through. Yeah, yeah, that's just age. By the way, we got a patient that's coming up in two minutes, so hurry it up. And it's like, yeah. So we've just kind of brushed women aside in that way. And like you said, like Marty's book really touches on this amazingly, like that study back in 2002 or 2003 with a women's health initiative was a faulty study kind of to begin with. The findings came out before the study actually came out. And then when the study came out, you realize the findings really weren't statistically significant. They're using synthetic versions of all the hormones. And now we talk about how the healthcare space does patients are wrong in certain areas. One thing that we don't talk about enough is it really did physicians wrong in this way because we learn about bleomysin and all these other cancer drugs in medical school when 95% of us won't go into oncology. But we learned zero about hormone replacement therapy. And that's the basis of human life. Yeah, it's so astounding to me. I, my wife and I, sage, we've done podcasts on this. We've been very vulnerable about it and very transparent about it. She did this Dutch test while she was going through menopause. And I'm telling you what happened to her three weeks after getting on hormone therapy. After Dr. Sardar really dialed in her dosages was mind-numbing. I mean, libido, brain fog, her water retention, her sleep. I mean, her cortisol and melatonin were completely inverted. The, her short-term recall, like the lack of brain fog, just the crushing exhaustion, mood swings, all gone. Exited. One of the greatest antitip presence that we can give a woman. Yeah. Anybody, someone that's really close to me came to me the other day and said that her husband had just got on testosterone replacement therapy in his late 50s, 60, and said that her husband is more patient than he's ever been in his entire life. And you think testosterone roared rage, right? Exactly. And it's just simply not true. So much more. So where do you see, you know, what is the future hold for Dr. Moss? I mean, what is your vision of your practice, your impact? How are you going to bridge this gap between allopathic medicine and functional medicine to impact the patients that you're going to see? Yeah. So I think I want to-- so I'm pursuing formal education also in the functional medicine space through a couple of places like A4M and all these places that you go to and do online fellowships with, because you don't learn that in the academic setting, or at least not through that framework, right? So thankfully, I've had that my residency program is not brutal enough to where I don't have time to explore other things that I'm interested in. So I'm able to do that along with my formal residency training. And with PM and R, I get to, you know, do a lot of hands-on things like ultrasound guided injections with PRP or stem cells. Oh, super cool. And so what I want to do is take that PM and R knowledge of how do we get a patient back to being as functional as possible, take the functional medicine side of how do we avoid chronic disease, and kind of morph those into a good practice that 10 years ago, when I was the patient, I wish that I would have gone to, right? Or you're recognizing things early. You're getting a sense of what a patient's going through on a day-to-day basis. You don't just have to sit with a patient for six minutes and then push them aside. Yeah. You can actually sit down. So, you know, I have a year left of formal training. So I'm trying to build that runway out a little bit and see what's possible. I don't think I'll operate in the health insurance space as it currently stands. Or at least I hope I don't have to. Yeah. I want to say this too. You've talked about the payer system too, like the difference between cash pay and insurance kind of events. Like just this sheer voluminous difference in cost. Like the same CBC labs that they build an insurance company, $400 for a patient gigant for $35. So I got-- Yeah. Last year. when I had health insurance, I don't have health insurance anymore, I do crowdfunding. But I do have estrogen, testosterone, free testosterone, sex hormone. I've got five basic hormonal labs from my primary care doctor. And I get the bill in the mail and I paid $98 and I was like, "Oh God, I wonder what they build insurance." So I looked at it and they build insurance $1,500 for those five labs. And so I was like, "Okay, well, first thought is thank God I have insurance." Right? Yeah, I only paid 90 bucks. So I go back to the same labs website and I go to order those lab tests. Like I would be doing it for a patient. And I put all five of those labs and then see what it costs. And it's $66 total cash pay. So I paid more with insurance than I did if I just went and paid cash. And I'm seeing this in a lot of different places. Right? You see insurance bill for an MRI at like $15,000 when you can go pay $400 for an MRI down the street, some places. So I think the cash pay system gets demonized a little bit because people think that the physician or whoever owns the practice is selfish by going cash pay. And sometimes it is more expensive. But I also think that if you're trying to be preventative, the money that you spend on the front end could also save you a lot of money and heartache and family trouble and all of these other things on the back end. Yeah, no question at all. We saw the same thing when we were starting our functional medicine clinic. You know, we would have, we started with a traditional insurance model and it just became so difficult to manage. I mean, that's why like really successful medical practices have an entire division that just does billing because you get a PhD in billing and it would drive our clinicians up a wall because they would spend so much more time trying to justify procedures and write medical necessity letters. More relatively simple procedures. But they didn't fit the algorithm. I remember, you know, woman walking into a clinic with a irregular note in her upper axillary region and it was nojler. It wasn't there six months earlier on palpation, you know, all the signs that you wouldn't want to see close proximity to lymph nodes. And so she said, okay, I want to provide up to you and some additional imaging and got rejected. And so she wrote a medical necessity letter and got rejected again. And eventually what she realized when she spoke to the insurance company was because the statistical incidence of cancer in that age woman was so low and this was considered a non-covered procedure and she's like, I get that. But here is all of my clinical analysis. Everything about my training tells me this needs to be biopsied. And it needs to be image. And here's why. And then they gave her another whole framework to write another letter. So in the third letter, they finally covered the procedure. I know somebody who has who had prostate cancer and had to get or sorry, testicular cancer and had to get his cut testicles taken out. And insurance denied his, their, you know, authorization to get testosterone replacement therapy for that the first time. So they had to go through an entire appeal process. It's like, how do you expect that person to make testosterone with the testicles? Right. Yeah. I mean, so I think, you know, a lot of that adiocracy, we're going to hopefully see change over time. But while we're waiting to change the system, keeping people out of the system is the best to route. You know, the final thing I want to touch on because you mentioned it in your approach to metabolic syndrome with sleep hygiene. And I love that term, but I think a lot of people don't know what that means. Yeah. You know, how do we draw attention to our sleep? What are some hygienic, I'm actually about to do a massive two day free sleep challenge and do them every quarter, but I'm interested in your opinion on what, what is good sleep hygiene look like to you? So I think a lot of people treat sleep in a vacuum. They're just saying, I'm not sleeping well and they don't look at anything that's surrounding that event except for them lying down and actually closing their eyes. And I see this all the time. And you'd be surprised. But I think if you really look at everything that leads up to sleep, not only in the first, you know, a couple hours right before you get in bed, but the entire day, right? Are you getting up in the morning and getting natural sunlight? I mean, that's Andrew Heberman brought, you know, this kind of to the forefront and it's been huge in that whole community lately because that cortisol spike that you get early in the morning from having natural sunlight, you can't reproduce that indoors. I mean, maybe with some sort of like 10,000 lumen. Exactly. But you, for most purposes, you can't reproduce that. So if we're not getting that cortisol spike in the morning that's coming down throughout the afternoon, then we're staying at a baseline level of stress hormone throughout the entire day that doesn't taper off at the end. And then we have that wired, entire feeling when our head hits the pillow of like, wait, I've been tired all day. I could have just fallen asleep at my chair at work. But when I finally get to bed, I can't go to sleep because my mind is racing. So I think starting in the morning with natural sunlight as quickly as you can possibly get it, like get that sun in your eyes. Don't stare at the sun. But then, you know, later in the day, how later are you having your meals in the afternoon, right? Are you eating at 9 p.m. and trying to go to bed at 10? Yeah. So I try to get, you know, two, hopefully three hours before I go to bed as my last meal because you need that time to digest. So dramatic improvement. Yep. Doing that? That's the thing, temperature in the room to, you know, I sleep anywhere between 66 and 69 degrees. Some people even go lower than that. And I think that because it brings your core body temperature down, taking the warm shower can help do the same exact thing. Soana before sleep is amazing for that. Cutting out light in your bedroom is the biggest one that I see. I mean, we have our, whenever you see our room from the street, it looks like a haunted house because there's only red lights in our bedroom upstairs. I love that. So like getting, you know, amber lights in the bedroom so that you're not having that blue light exposure that is ramping your melatonin back down, using a sleep mask whenever you travel. You know, we're in a hotel right now. I love all of this. Yeah. I mean, there's so many things using a white noise machine. If you have like a ton of road noise and stuff like that in your mind, there's so many different magnesium. Magnesium glycinate is like so easy to do right before bed. It's fairly cheap supplement. There's tons of things. And also, I think one of the most underrated things is trying to get on the same sleep schedule as whoever's in the bed with you, like your spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever it is. That is huge because if you're getting, you know, if you're waking up at 10 a.m., but they're waking up at 5 a.m., and they're waking you up, you're not getting eight hours of sleep. And, you know, usually I find in couples in sage and iron this way. One is a deep sleeper. One is a light sleeper. Right. So like she can get out of bed ten times at night. I don't know. I mean, she could have a dance party on her side of the bed and I would not even know that it's not. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. That's where the opposite. Yeah. But, but if I, when I wake up, if I have to use the bathroom at night, I am so intentional about how I get out of this bed. I mean, it looks like I'm trying to commit a crime. Yeah. If I slide the, I move my legs over onto the floor. I sort of slowly, you know, stand up because I know that she's so sensitive to, you know, me getting up, getting out of bed. And if I get right, you know, and then I sort of fall back into bed, throw my eye mask on and I'm like, right pack out. Well, she's up for another 35 minutes. Yeah. Because I've broken out of that sleep. But I think sleep hygiene, whole food diet, mobility being non-negotiable, which you talked about, strain training, it's so fundamentally basic, but so incredibly impactful. And it makes you feel amazing. Like if you get good sleep, you work out, you look good in the mirror. So you have that confidence booster. I mean, when you start to string all of these things together, it's not a chore. It makes you feel and look amazing. Yeah. So people are happier than they've ever been when they start to implement these things. Love it. You're saying that. So Dr. Clay Moss, how does my audience find, find you? How do they find out more about you? Yeah. Probably mostly on Instagram is where I do most everything. Just at the R Clay Moss, Dr. Clay Moss. Okay. Just DR Clay Moss, no MD, that's DR Clay Moss. Yeah. Don't even have a website. Yeah. So we're cutting dry at this point, but yeah, they can find me on there. I'm pretty responsive in everything. So a few other questions. That's phenomenal. You know, I wind down all my podcasts by asking all my guests the same question. And there's no right or wrong answer to this question. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? Probably doing 80% of the things right and leaving 20% to actually be a human being. I think we get really caught up in all of these things a lot of times. And then I don't want to die and realize that I've been in a protocol my entire life. Yeah, paralysis of analysis. Right. So just not letting perfect be the enemy of good, but also taking the steps to really do what you need to do. Taking care of your own health is the most selfless thing that you can possibly do. I mean, if you look at patients in the hospital that have not been taking care of themselves, like sure the end of their life is like really sad and debilitating, but also at the same time their family is the one that's really taking the brute into the force. Yeah. If you have a patient that's really obese with diabetes that's spending the last few weeks or months at home and needs to be changed, dressed, taken out out of the bed. If you take care of yourself, it gives you so much more ability to take care of others around you. And so in that instance, I think it's really selfless thing to do is to go and get checked out, start doing all of these things and try to get back on track if you're not already there. So amazing. Dr. Moss, thank you so much for coming on the ultimate human podcast. We're going to follow your journey. I hope you'll come back on the podcast again. I feel like there's a book in the making somewhere, even when you get out of residency, you got a little time on your hands. We're going to head over into the VIP group right now. I got tons of VIPs that are so excited and have the whole list of questions for you. If you're interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com/pip and I will see you live in one of these sessions. But until next time, that's just science.