Dr. Anusha Kassan: Purchasing a Group Private Practice in Canada | Ep 191

Hey, this is Christina from the Jane team. This episode is brought to you by Jane, a practice management software in EMR built to support you and your practice. Switching EMRs isn't something you do on a whim and to make the switch confidently, you need to feel assured that your data will get imported securely and efficiently. A smooth import makes all the difference, which is why Jane's experienced imports team handles yours with care and at no additional cost. If you decide to switch, they'll be there to help every step of the way. To learn more about Jane, head to Jane.app/demo. Oh, and one last thing, if you're ready to get started, you can use the code Fearless2MO for a two-month grace period on your new account. Welcome to the Fearless Practice Podcast with Jewel Smith, episode 191. Hello and welcome to the Fearless Practice Podcast. The show where Canadian therapists share their experiences of starting and growing private practices. I'm Jewel Smith and I'm so glad you're here. In this podcast, we'll explore the challenges, the wins, and everything in between. Whether you're just starting out or looking to grow, you'll find stories and insights from Canadian therapists to support you along the way. All right, let's continue. Hello and welcome back to the Fearless Practice Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode where I will be speaking to Anusha Kasson. Anusha Kasson, PhD, registered psychologist, she, her resides and works on the traditional territories of the people of Treaty 7 in Southern Alberta and Mades Nation of Alberta, District 5 and 6. She also works on the territories of the Musqueam people. She is an associate professor at the University of British Columbia. She's also the co-owner of the Psychology Group, a private practice in Calgary. Anusha scholarship is influenced by her own bio-cultural identity and is informed by an overarching social justice lens. She is a fellow of the Canadian Psychological Association and she recently received the Organizations Award for Public Community Service and Human Rights and Social Justice in Psychology. Hello and welcome to the podcast. Ooh, that is a bio. Thank you, slightly embarrassing when you hear it about yourself. No, that's wonderful. Yeah, very excited to talk to you and as we were talking before recording, you are in Calgary right now? I am, yes. I'm on a research study leave and so spending most of my time in Calgary where my family is right now. And is that for British Columbia, the research study leave? Yes. It's a year to focus on your research and your scholarship. So nice pause from the everyday teaching and other responsibilities. What are you researching? Most of my research, I mean anything under the diversity umbrella excites me and most of my research centers on immigration. I have an interesting history of immigration myself and so that kind of prompted me to do that work. And so we have various projects happening with newcomer students in school, a current project that's wrapping up with two SWBTQ plus newcomers in Calgary. So anything about helping folks integrate and understand their experiences better is fascinating to me. That sounds really interesting and exciting. I guess to go back in time from where you are now to where you started, what got you into becoming a psychologist and then becoming a professor as well. Well, it's been a journey over time. And some of the events were completely random and then others were more purposeful. And basically when I had to choose an undergrad major, I applied to various helping professions, education, psychology. And when I had to make a decision, I was like, well, psychology seems a bit broader. So let me try that. And it didn't take long for me to realize that it was super interesting. And when I found out what the pathway was to go to grad school and all of that, I just committed. And then along the way, things happened. My father was sick, early grad school. And they gave him two months to live. And he actually lived for two years. Seeing that mental rigor and resilience, I was like, oh, yeah, there's something to what I'm studying here. Like it's real. And then I met an amazing mentor who introduced me to feminism, multiculturalism, social justice. Everything clicked from me. I was like, oh, this is why what I learned in undergrad never really made sense for me and my community. But there are other pathways in psychology that can support folks from various backgrounds. That was the journey in grad school and kind of fell into being a prof when I graduated and just really felt passionate about integrating more culturally responsive training across the field. And where did you do your undergrad, your master's PhD? I was born and raised in Montreal. And so I just happened to be in a city with lots of great grad school programs. So I did my undergrad at Concordia and then my graduate school at McGill. And I was there until my residency when I transitioned to California for a year, for that training. I was a great year. And then when I graduated, came out to BC in Alberta and that's been our home since 2009. How's Calgary doing right now? Well, it was supposed to be temporary when we were located here. We had never been here. We just kind of packed up our kids and came and I was pleasantly surprised with how lovely the city is. Smaller, it's community oriented. It was a great space to raise our kids when they were young. The neighborhood was easy to navigate. And the situation has shifted a lot over time, which is unfortunate because part of the motivation to leave Quebec was to leave politics behind. And here we are back in a similar situation with challenges with healthcare conversations around separation. So it just seems like wherever one goes, there will be some type of political climate that can erupt at any time. It's great that you're there doing the work and standing up for two SLGPQIA people there. So thank you. Yeah, I think it's necessary. I hope I try to be a really great ally because it's impacting people's lives on a daily basis. I hear it in the classroom. I hear it in the therapy room. It's very hard right now. So you graduated in 2009. You moved to Calgary. You also become a professor for UBC as well at the same time. Yes. When did you start your private practice? It took about 10 years. I did a lot of clinical work through my grad school and then a little bit of private practice part time. But when we moved out here, we focused on family and just building my career. So it didn't feel like I had much time to be in private practice. But I stayed connected. I taught a lot of clinical courses, practicum courses. So I was always engaged with the psychological practice. And then in 2019, when both my kids were in school, I felt like I could take a little bit of time to start building something. And it was a very small side part time job and also mostly a way to keep my skills fresh and to engage with people and that being a teacher made me a better therapist, being a therapist made me a better teacher. And then it's kind of wild how much it grew because it was just my own half a day a week. This was pre-COVID too, right? Yes. Actually, I had started building my practice enough that my one day a week was constantly booked and then COVID and then all the reshuffling and supporting continuity of care with my clients, but also my children at home, it was pretty wild. And then eventually like coming back, sorting through how to rebuild the practice. And I also started doing supervision because in Alberta, there's different pathways to becoming a psychologist. And one of the options is through a 1,600-hour provisional practice or status, I should say. So I also started doing some supervision, which I really enjoy because I do that in training programs all the time. And then that kind of grew from there, meeting people in the city, being part of a collective. And then just took the leap barely six months ago to be the co-owner of the psychology group, which is a larger group practice. So for four or five years, you were just doing solo private practice and then just expanded now? Yes, solo private practice in a collective. So working with other colleagues, supervisors and having curiosities and conversations about, oh, maybe this could become a little bit bigger or this can become more than just me. I had been in a practice for a while, and the owner wanted some space. And so it took us like a year, year and a half back and forth conversations about how to keep her baby alive, but create something fresh. And so yeah, in May, 2025, it became the psychology group, which is a joint venture between my partner, Alissa, and myself. - What's the difference now compared to before May? - Before I really just focused on my small group of clients and supervisors, and now I've reshuffled that time around to kind of manage and oversee the psychology group. We have close to 20 practitioners of practice in Kensington with multiple offices and another enrichment, which is just one office. So lots of movement, lots of people, lots of interesting opportunities to create community, our vision for the space is like, we call it the three Cs, which is like community culture and connection. So that's really our goal is to create that in a private practice model, which everyone's there for various personal reasons, but of course, this is people's jobs. They need to make a paycheck, they need to support their families, and they've worked very hard and it's cool to be able to do so. But I think that even though it's a private practice model, we can have a lot of community driven values, collaboration, connection, helping each other out rather than always thinking business first. - Yeah, and private practice can be very isolating. So it can be really rewarding to find a group private practice that aligns with your values. You like the people, you want to hang out with them. You can just really enrich being a therapist totally. And that's really like the balance of folks managing their schedules because sometimes it's just a lot of clinicians behind closed doors, but also knowing that you can cross someone in the kitchen or you can make the time to go have a conversation during your break. And then of course, we organize larger group activities, which are always lots of fun. And may when you opened the group private practice, did you hire 20 therapists at that time? - No. - Most of them were already working in the previous practice. And so with the transition, they had the option to stay at the psychology group. And I would say I think everyone did accept a couple people who used the opportunity to transition to something for themselves. So that's been interesting too, right? To shift from one owner to another. And I'm sure there's adjustments on all of the sides, but I had been part of that practice before I was one of the clinicians working there. So I knew a lot of the people, I knew the previous owner and it kind of made sense for me to transition into that role. - Did you have to buy out the previous owner? - I did, yeah. Well, we did, a listen I did, yes. So this was a somewhat calculated financial risk of taking on the practice. - Definitely, it's an investment and we're responsible for a large office, large overhead, cost and we just kind of went for it. What's the benefit of purchasing previous private practice rather than starting your own? - You know, we had conversations about that as well because a listen I shared an office. So basically if you think of the psychology group was like an end of two in one office and we had conversations of expanding slowly and bringing on clinicians and doing it that way or jumping in and having everything kind of set up for us. And so I guess the benefit would be it's kind of like the bones are there. It's already built and then you have to like, maybe redecorate or maybe like dust off some of the old cobwebs and continue with the processes that are working well and also create some novelty where there's opportunity to grow or change. - For you taking on more of a business administration, I'm assuming. - Yes. - How has that transition been from being a psychologist clinically to doing business? - It's really different because my house has been a university since I started undergrad. And while that's not like a business per se, there's a lot of red tape procedures, all of the things that go on there. So there's a lot of transferable skills in terms of like how do we create plans, schedules, processes that are effective but balancing a budget, paying bills, hiring folks from clinicians to cleaners to my children to restock the bubbly fridge. It's a lot. And some of it is pleasant and some of it of course is kind of just necessary or less exciting, but I think that happens in their responsibilities that I don't appreciate as much in my training program or even in my own solo private practice. So I think it just comes with the territory and luckily it's more enjoyable than not. And I see it as an investment in the future in terms of doing things like hiring a group of professional cleaners, which is maybe not top of my list on any given day, but then they become part of our practice, they become integral to the space and keeping it nice and welcoming for folks. And so that's a small bit of time right now that I think will pay off for years to come. Once the growing pains have been smoothed out, you won't have to do as much of them like just right now in the first year. - Exactly. Part of that is financially driven because outsourcing is expensive, but also part of that is us learning our business from the ground up. I need to know all the little details in Jane and I need to know about SEO and I need to know about reputable cleaning companies and Calgary, so doing the leg work will be helpful. We don't want to be disconnected from all of the activities that go on in the practice. - You said you're using Jane app as your EMR? - Yes. - Is that new or what's that what was used before? - I've been using it, well, I was paper pen for a long time, but since the previous practice adopted it, I was using it as a clinician and now learning kind of the backend in terms of being an administrator who can go into the different features. It's been great for me, quite intuitive, even if I have to like reverse a bill or create a new session for a clinician, I can figure a lot of things out. - Yeah, and their direct billing is so great. Takes such less time to do that work. - Yes, we have a lot of clinicians who use direct billing. Their clients appreciate it and it's simpler for everyone. - Yeah, I'm doing my taxes right now for 25. - Yes. I love how easy it is to get the documents that I need to send to my accountant through Jane app. It was like five seconds and I had it. - Definitely pulling reports for myself and also for others like we're able to pull reports on how many clients, how many visits, how many returning clients calculate retention, rates, things like that. And being able to do that just helps me figure out how I can support someone better because every clinician might need different type of mentoring or coaching and some need help saying no to people or balancing their schedule more and some need help building their practice 'cause they're earlier on in their career. So Jane has a lot of helpful functions there. How's it going with marketing the private practice and building a clientele? - Pretty well, we see growth from May onwards. So that's positive. We're still trying to figure out what's our best strategy in terms of marketing. We have a basic website and we have an active Instagram account which is helpful. I don't know how many clients come in through that platform, but we get a lot of engagement with other practitioners in the city, other practices, prospective clients or psych students who are kind of learning from some of the content that's been a staple for us since the beginning. Even before the psychology group, we've put a little bit of money in Google ads, SEO, and kind of experimenting with that. I heard a lot of helpful tips on your podcast actually. So that's pretty neat. But I think now that the first six months we're really just getting to know everyone and everything behind the scenes. And now we're in this kind of phase of like case, 2026. What do we want it to look like? How much do we want it to grow? And in a way that we have capacity for as well. 'Cause it might seem like there's a lot of clinicians, but a third of them work part time, a third of them are full, and then a third are wanting to grow their practice. So just kind of figuring out how to do that. So social media. part of it, I think paid marketing will be part of it more and more as we go forward and networking and just luckily the practice was already physically present before it was the psychology group. So it's known in the city a little bit and in terms of you asked me earlier about the advantages, I think that's one of the advantages it's already running and so now we got to make it stronger and more aligned with what we want to see at the psychology group which is again that community connection culture. I'm waiting for Chattchevitti, Gemini, all those AIs to start a payment system of advertising on AIs. I feel like that's just right around the corner because that's where a lot of people are finding therapists now. Totally and you know I even asked somebody I've been working with a web company prior to the psychology group. They developed my own personal website and just got a lot of good advice from the owner of that company and I asked him I said how do we transition to like being visible on AI and he even wasn't sure in non paraphrasing him but it's like AI answers questions more than does advertisement but I think you're right. It won't be long before that part of the outbreak of AI. Yeah that's how the internet started. It wasn't monetized and then capitalism just came in and right now AI isn't monetized in that way but I'm sure it's going to happen but you're right with your website answering questions can be a really helpful way to get onto AIs for when people are asking questions so making sure that you structure your copy in that way can be helpful. Yeah and there's a lot to learn which is not taught in psych training right. Like whether that's on the business side admin budgeting etc or even on the tech side website development getting traction all of those things. It's not a course that's offered in the graduate curriculum. Every private practice is different too I don't think there's a tried and true way to grow and build clientele. Are you finding that Google ads are helping? I've heard various opinions on it. Yeah I think they helped a little bit but I wouldn't say that that was necessarily the game changer. I've heard from folks on your podcast but also from web companies SEO is a better way to go but you have to build it strategically so that's kind of the next season that we're in figuring that out and the reality is I think we have a lot of referrals through existing clinicians our network of clinicians outside TPG but also other practice owners. We actually have a very nice group chat of practice owners and we check in with each other on various ethical questions business questions referrals and I think that's great so I hope that through good practice and solid practitioners we can enhance our clientele. That said I know that's a little bit aspirational so I know that like the marketing piece is part of the equation as well. It's not my favorite piece but it's part of any business. I love that you're diversifying you're trying different things out right now seeing what's going to sick but also yeah getting those warm referrals from other clinicians other clients recommending to other people is the best way I would argue. I think so even if it happens often you're like okay you helped me can you help my friend my cousin my sister now that we have this larger practice I don't have to like navigate so many dual relationships and be aware of like what somebody might need and who might be a good option for them so been called a decent matchmaker when it comes to prospective clients and clinicians. Are you still seeing clients yourself or are you moving away from being a clinician? A handful of clients I have been taking new clients in a while I have a lot of long term clients and most of them are women people of color queer folks folks who want somebody who understands the immigrant experience and that's kind of how we connect and I would say yeah most of my folks have been around for several years and see folks maybe once a month every couple weeks depending on what they're going through and what they need so I certainly don't want to lose that because again it's like that keeps me connected to the training the research even the business aspect of it but definitely not a big caseload because the focus is a little bit more on the business right now. Yeah that's why I love private practice the continuation of care that you can see somebody through lots of stages in their lives and that can be very helpful for them to not have to re-explain their story. Absolutely and you know sometimes people come back and they're like this happened or you know unexpected transition they want someone who is familiar and who understands for sure. I talk about this a lot in training like we can do good work through positive working relationships without those relationships being like this is the best therapist I've ever had but sometimes somebody finds that in you or I find that in a therapist and that's really meaningful and I think that's where the longer-term work comes in. Yeah when you feel connected to your therapist when you trust them. Exactly. So much great work can happen. Yeah anything not working with marketing. I don't know if it's not working or if it's just we want to see more right we want to see more come from our marketing. I would say the social media presence is not the main way to get more volume to get more clients into the business but I think it has another role to play in the grander business or networking exactly. In terms of marketing I would say being mindful or cautious of what people's budgets are and what the return might be because I think that part's less predictable. So we have a large practice a lot of overhead so we want to market but we want to be cautious with our finances. So we will see in the next six months what's worked and what hasn't worked. Yeah this year I took a step back from Instagram because I felt I was putting a lot of work into it. But the return wasn't happening in the way that I wanted to and I love back end SEO work. So I just now spend a day doing that and I find joy in it and I think long term is going to be more helpful than doing single posts on Instagram. Are you finding that now that you're doing more admin that you're enjoying it? I definitely enjoy parts of it. brainstorming planning I'm like on the communication end of things even planning like what are we going to do with our group for this quarter? We're going to do a workshop on how to run consults. We're going to do a town hall to check in with folks. We're going to do a karaoke night and so looking at not just the day to day but the bigger picture how to get folks together how to communicate within the team, grow people skill sets that's a lot of fun. And then sometimes there is something satisfying about sitting down, ticking all your admin off your list and it's like okay all the bills are paid. We've got the lights on for this month. We don't have to think about it for another 30 days. I guess last question what are you looking forward to in the next year or two of your private practice? Yeah I'm looking forward to a bit more stability. There's been a lot of change, a lot of movement. We've tried to be like really open. If you need something, if you notice something come to us and we've gotten a lot of feedback and a lot of super helpful comments from the clinician. So we wanted to be as collaborative as possible and at the same time once a lot of the major shifts have taken place. I'm looking forward to kind of a little bit of stability, having things run smoothly and then being able to like use the extra time to be creative, innovative, you know maybe new offerings or new partnerships. So I think that's on the horizon because we're not quite at a year but you know it's going to come quickly that one year kind of transition mark. And then hopefully there's this kind of great collective of really cool people that can support folks in the city and in the province really. Well thank you so much for coming on. It was lovely to learn about your group private practice. I wish you all this success and who knows maybe you'll be back on to let us know how it's going. That sounds great. It was really great to meet you live not through your podcast. And thanks for having me. It's nice talking with you. And thank you so much to Jane App for sponsoring this episode. I love and use the EMR and highly recommend it, especially how easy it is to get all those tax documents you need for your accountant. You can check them out at jane.app/mentalhealth. And remember to use the new promo code, Fearless2MO, for two months free at the time of signup. Thank you for listening to the Fearless Practice Podcast. To sign up to receive my free e-course on how to start an online Canadian private practice, please visit fearlesspractice.ca/start. This course is for Canadian therapist who want to start an online private practice but have no idea how to do it. By the end of this course, you will know everything you need in order to launch your own private practice. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. 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