Dove Cameron: Toxic Patterns, Engagement, & Entering 30's

(snoring) (upbeat music) - What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy daddy daddy daddy daddy daddy. - Dev Cameron, welcome to call her daddy. - Thank you so much. - It's so nice to meet you. - It's so nice to meet you too. - You just turned 30. - Yeah. - How are we feeling? - Honestly, I feel great about 30. I looked right down the barrel of the lens. I was like, I feel great about 30. I don't really have any like hangups about it as far as I can tell so far. Like, I feel like I have always felt older than I was and I think in a lot of ways I was like waiting to be in my 30s because I feel like for me at least when I was younger, I was really like wanting to be heard, wanting to be taken seriously, wanting to be respected at a younger age than people were willing to give that to me. And so I've always felt like the older I got, the closer I got to feeling like the world was perceiving me and the way that I perceived me. I think that is so real because I feel like the society makes us feel like, oh my god, your 20s are gonna be the best years of your life. You're gonna have so much fun. And like, I feel like I've been so fortunate to sit with women on this show who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. I just sat with Michelle Obama and she was like, wait girl, this is the decade, 60s are the shit. And I'm like, okay, so I do think we kind of are brainwashed almost to think specific eras of our youth are gonna be incredible. What do you think you're personally excited to leave behind in your 20s? - God, just feeling not so, like feeling like I don't deserve a seat at the table yet. 'Cause like I really gaslight myself and I have crazy imposter syndrome around like what I deserve, what I have earned. If I'm good at something, do I know enough about this to call myself by this title? And I feel like in my 20s, it was so much like self sabotage and second guessing and hiding away because I didn't take myself seriously. And then there's something about late 20s to now 30 that I feel like even I can't really tell me that I don't know what I'm doing in this area of my job. Like I feel like I've well and truly earned some things that like in my 20s I was a little more reticent to give myself credit for. So like that's something I'm really looking for. I also just think like in general, I know this is really surface level and kind of easy but like people pleasing in general. - Yes. - Was something that I was so guilty of and so under the influence of like and it wasn't because I wanted people to like me. It was coming from a place of like I just don't want to upset anyone. - So real. - And so unrewarding because actually what you're saying is we actually start to clue into, I don't need to people please as much. I actually don't need to dress for the male gaze or I don't need to do these things. So we're actually getting wiser and that's terrifying to the society that we live in of oh my god, a woman in her power. How dare she actually use her voice and stand up for herself. And so it's a whole thing to repress us. But then I'm speaking to all these women recently and they're like, "We, it's amazing." I'm like, "Why does it always feel like we grow up as these young girls?" And we're like so terrified of aging because there's so much rhetoric around. - Yeah. - You basically disappear and your worth is essentially gone if you're not like a fresh 21 year old. And that's why I love these conversations. We're like, "Guys, again, I'm sitting with a woman who's like, I'm feeling better. What a concept." - Yeah, I think that, I mean, if you look at the, who would benefit from the messaging of you're only valuable when you are barely legal, you're only valuable when you don't know yourself yet, you're only valuable when your body still has like, leftovers of looking like a child. Like if you look at those things and you ask yourself, like, what is the demographic that benefits from that messaging? It's not us. - Like it's not. - We're not pushing that. - No. - Like being, you know, there's a vested interest in highlighting those years that truly in my experience were the worst fucking years. Like, my 20s were the worst. So I think there's a vested interest in glorifying that because then it sort of keeps us in a position of, yeah, disempowerment. - I do think also something interesting you just said is you've always kind of felt older. And I think there's a beauty, yes, of getting older, but then we also, we have to talk about our looks, right? Where it's like it can feel great, but then there's the standard that we feel pressure, especially in this industry. Have you ever felt pressures around Botox or fillers or editing and all of that that comes with our job to maintain your stance in this industry? - Yeah, that's a really good. And I think I have a complex answer around that. When I was younger, I had a really intense, sort of set of rules and strictures about what I was allowed to be and who people wanted me to be and how I was going to represent that. Dive headfirst into that, always be that, right? And a huge part of that was like an infantilization. And I was just so scared. To not be 18, like that was something that was really scary for me, not because I believed it, but because the culture was so loud about it. And especially my position in the culture, starting out on Disney Channel, being blonde and being so bubbly and open with the world in a way that was not healthy for me. And so a couple of years ago, I had this big reckoning with myself. I had like finally let my body just be what it is. Like I stopped doing all the things to my body that I was doing before that were really self-harming. And so I processed a lot and I wrote a lot and I went to a lot of therapy and I came out on the other side of it. Like I guess sort of externally unrecognizable, but I really feel like I've bucked any sort of fear about aging in that way. - And it's beautiful to hear you say like it's actually happened recently. - Oh yeah, I also think like this is sort of an accidental thing that happened, but like I think so much of what I was doing to myself, which is a very broad umbrella, because like I don't want to trivialize any of the things that I was going through, experiencing, doing to myself, but under that very broad umbrella of all of the things that I used to do that I now no longer do, part of what made it really clear to me that I didn't want to torture myself anymore. And for me, it was torture. Like for me, it was torture. Anything aesthetic or anything to do with food or overexercising everything in that genre of like shape shifting, I would call it for me, was really self-harming because it wasn't for me. It wasn't to feel beautiful. It was in fact to be, to feel safe. Like I had it in my head that like if I was physically perfect, no one would harm me. Like in this really weird kind of juvenile way of like, maybe I'll be accepted, maybe I'll be loved, maybe the bad, bad things that used to happen won't happen. It was like this way of controlling the one thing I could, control to hopefully create an environment where like bad things wouldn't happen. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I just, I came from such a crazy background. Yes. And like litany of experiences that I was just looking for anything to grab onto that felt like this is my choice. Can we get into your background? 'Cause I wanna get into all of this. Like there's so many things that you're talking about that I think are unfortunately but realistically like very relatable for a lot of women who are gonna be listening today. And so I think kind of having a little bit of your background and understanding where you came from, I think we'll also give more context to then these themes that we're going to talk about. Okay, let's go all the way back to the beginning. Group on a small island in Washington. What was your town like, paint the picture? - Bainbridge Island. (laughs) Shout out Bainbridge Island. A world that only exists for the people that live there. - Like a big population, small. - A small. I mean, like 20,000? - Okay. - So like, four in islands small, but four like a town, maybe medium. I don't know, I don't know. I've lost a lot of the scale. But Bainbridge is really idyllic. So you're in Seattle, you land in Seattle. You take a ferry boat, 20 minute ferry boat ride. You can walk on or you can drive on. If it's like 180 cars or something, someone's gonna have to back me up on that. She's like, (laughs) and it's super quaint. Like it's very, there's like no crime, you know? They like opened up a weed store like 10 years ago. Like if there's any crime, it like rocks the fucking, it's like 10 years and then nothing happens after that. - It's kind of like the things that you see on TV. Like the small town, everyone knows everyone. - It's very that. It's also like the businesses are named after the family that's been there for five generations. And they all, like I went to school with the same less names at my sister and my mom and everybody, you know. - Got it. - It's like that. - And what did you do for fun as a kid? - Oh God, fucking nothing. - I mean like, no, because it's, no. - No, because it's such a beautiful place, but it's like you know one of those places where like the kids start like smoke. really early because they're just so bored. Like it was like that. - Is that you? - No, it wasn't me. I mean, like I was hanging out with those kids, but I was like scared. - Classic. - Yeah, I was like pretending you're smoking, but you're like, oh my god, that's what you're doing. - I was like, aimless anger. I was like going to musical theater being like, (laughs) - No, but I didn't, I didn't. But I was in with that, like I got, you know, I got a tattoo at 14, kind of town. - The Capricorn tattoo? - Yeah. - Community theater. - What, did you like about being on stage? Like were you confident, young girl, like ready to go? And okay. - Yeah, I was, I was one of those like, I think I was probably pretty annoying. Like when I was younger, I was like, I was very confident, I was very friendly. I was very just personable. Like I was very wanted to talk to everyone, wanted to be friends, very loud. Like I don't know, I grew up with parents who were artists, and so they were like, however you wanna be, you be her. And I was like, great, got it. I've been like written it down, got it. So I was very confident, I was very, for a while. And then I feel like middle school kind of like beats it out of you. - Middle school on the other side, you like wait. - You're like being perceived, people hate me. - I think something that's really relatable of the middle school commentary is like, and it makes me sad for our younger selves is, there's the version of us before, like you said, being perceived by your peers. And there's the version of you at home that just has this endless idea of who you can be in the world that you wanna be in. And then you start to interact and life happens. And horrible things happen. And then that starts to mold you, which is just life. And I know obviously something horrible happened when you were eight years old. Your best friend was murdered by her father, which is like saying that out loud. I don't even know how to communicate how sorry. And I can't even imagine how painful that time was and even still decades later, how painful that must be, even to talk about it. Do you mind those sharing, like how you found out this news and what happened during that time in your life because eight years old is like, life is great and then. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really, yeah, I guess it was like that. We had a very sort of like a, yeah, idyllic sort of foresty childhood, Haley was her name. She lived also on the island for the majority of our childhood. And we had met when we were two. Like it was just one of those things where, you know, like there, like some little girls they meet each other and they're like, oh, that's like you just, yeah. And it's funny, I rarely talk about this, not because it's like a, it's a problem to talk about, but just like it's so not the first thing that people usually ask me. But she, her parents had gotten a divorce and it was really messy. And I had stayed with her dad for like quite a lot of the summer before this happened. And I think even at eight, I like, it was like a dark energy, right? Like he was a very angry man. And I was at home one day sick from school. So it must have been like third grade. And I, it was, we had like landlines and it was like that era where if you picked up a landline, like my parents were in their office, like in a different building nearby at home. And I was at home and they had an income and call for their office and I picked it up 'cause I was just like a kid and I was just like listening in. And it was actually our preschool principal who was tasked with making the call Janice, who was an angel, an absolute angel. And that's where we met. And she basically said like this is gonna be a really, really disturbing call. Haley and Kelsey are gone. Steve is gone and he took the girls with him is what she said. Like just very quick. And I think my, it was my mom on the phone. And I remember her like decompressing, not knowing how to handle it. And then I think they heard me like express some sort of child noise, whatever that was, like a gasp. And then I, they came in and then we just like didn't get out of bed for like two days 'cause it was so impossible to process. And eight years old like why I wanted to ask you about that more is because I think that is so formative for everyone around you. But it's like that's something that like stays in your body because I feel like at that young of an age and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to trauma at young ages, not that exact trauma. But like there's something as human beings where when it's that young, you probably don't talk about it that much at that young age 'cause like what is mental health and how do you even speak about these things so you internalize it in your body. And then it sticks with you. - Yeah. - How do you think losing her kind of started to shift the way that you saw the world? - It's a really good question. I think well my parents tried to put me in therapy for a while 'cause I think even they knew like 'cause even at the time like this was 22 years ago so it's like mental health wasn't the internet wasn't what it was. My parents didn't really know like there was no therapy speak in the way that we all kind of can psychoanalyze each other and like pop psychology. - Yes. - Each other now like they really didn't know. But they knew enough to put me in therapy. Like I was very, very, very, very, very disturbed by knowing someone for all that time and being like raised around them and then realizing that they are capable of doing something so harrowing. And I think that that kind of like fissured my psychology, like my brain and how I process things like kind of, like I don't wanna be dark but like kind of forever. Like I still have issues and you know there were more things that happened that sort of echoed that experience. But I still have experiences where I'm like, I'm grateful for the relationships that I have as long as I have them. I'm grateful for the good things as long as I have them because truly at any moment it can be just an entirely flipped script black and white situation. Which I think I have acceptance around because I've had so much practice at it. But I also think like, you know, it is something that I think I forget is running my brain so much. Like it's really the source of most of my anxiety. - I know in the past you kind of talked about how this death accelerated a darkness that was going on in your own home. - Yeah. - Can you kind of explain what you meant by that? - Yeah, I think I don't actually know as an adult like how to rationalize the correlation between this loss and then sort of subsequently what happened with my family. But I think it was just like my mom could probably tell you better but I think it was just sort of an invisible chipping away at an already sort of shaky foundation that was my parents' marriage. And I want to state from the beginning like my mother is totally okay with me speaking about this stuff I would never speak out of turn. And I think my dad would be too. But I think it was my parents were not a love match. Like my parents were not a love match. My dad was at least, at the very least not straight. They got married because they got pregnant. And it was like my dad came from a Catholic family and they had love for each other. Like I see home videos from when I was little or before I was born. And like I think my dad truly loved my mom just not as a husband and wife. - Right like romantic. - Yeah. And I don't think he ever fully accepted that about himself. And so they just had this sort of like they both wanted something from each other that the other person couldn't give, and I knew that there was something off of your whole life. - Yeah, I think I would say right around eight. - I would say right around that time. It's funny, someone called me out once were being like, damn so much shit happened to this girl when she was eight and I was like actually, yeah. - Good girl. - That was kind of a year. - That was the big year, the big eight for you. - The big eight. - It's like 21 or 18 or like eight. - My frontal lobe developed today. - Eight, try me. - Yeah, that's true. (upbeat music) - In terms of your childhood in your home, your dad struggled with depression and bipolar disorder and that's a lot. That's a lot to, as a kid, handle. And I'm sure you're sitting here today with a different perspective on it. Had I met you 10 years ago and then had I talk to you 15 years to 20 years because I'm sure as you become an adult, you have a different perspective. And you're able to process things differently and empathy comes into play. But when did you realize that he was struggling with these things? Like did your family have a conversation about a diagnosis? You know, yeah, we did. It was such a fucking blur. But I knew, I knew that there was something. Because like I said, I was a very precocious kid. Like I was not, there was never a time where I was sheltered. And then suddenly I was like, big new world. Like I was at the adult's table. Yeah, yeah, in a big way. And not in a way that I regret either. Like in a way that I actually think is what I needed. I think the thing that I would say is what I was the most aware of was that my dad had really intense emotional swings. Like I knew that. I knew how to be prepared for that. I knew how to hopefully work around that, which also then like obviously splinters off. And so like how your brain works as you get older and affects who you date and what you accept. But that's not like I, I know this might be controversial. This is just my personal opinion about my father. But I truly don't think it was his fault. I think he was so traumatized and so repressed. And he had a really, really, really, really, really rough childhood and life and all of that. And I think that he was doing his best with the tools that he had and he didn't have enough tools. And you know, there were times when like if something completely divorced from something that I did or my sister and my mom did happen. But it was like we were the person in the room. Not really my sister. My sister and him were, were, were better about this because she was just less combative. And I think she would also be okay with me saying that like she was much more like. She had learned to avoid his triggers in like a different way. Whereas I would try to avoid them. And then if they happened, I would sort of like fight back because I was like you, I don't care that I'm 12, you cannot talk to me like that. Which was not something that worked well. Not something that earned me gold stars in the family household. My mom, I think loved it. My mom was always like, go baby. But my dad really didn't like being challenged. And so we had a bit of a tenuous relationship as I got older. But I, you know, I would come home and something would happen. And suddenly like all the VHS would be in the trash. And you'd be like, you know more nice things. You cannot have this like you are being punished for this thing. And it was like for what? You know, it was just something. It was something that was happening in his brain purely for him that like he had either. Like miss labeled. Like something that I had done wrong that was like, I think I've told this story before. But like I had this Barbie bubble gum toothpaste. And one day he came home from the office like really stressed. And he used it in this kind of like aggressive joking way. Like I'm going to take the toothpaste. And I like a eight year old was like, no, that's my two like ew germs. Whatever I said. And he heard that as like he was like, I pay for everything in this how, you know, like in this sort of like you don't know how good you have it. And then for like a week. Like wouldn't talk to me. Wouldn't look at me. Wouldn't tell me he loved me. Like just really. Just really strange like things that at the time I didn't recognize for what they were. Because now it was strange then. It's not strange now because I understand it more now. You talking about kind of being the defiant sibling of the one that I think that's also very relatable of. Having different childhood experiences with your parents than your siblings is weird. Because then when you get older you're like, that's not how it happened. And they're like, no, that's not how we're like mom and dad are like this or this happen. It's like it's not even events. It's like that's not who I grew up with. Right. That's so nice for you. Because that was in my reality. Yeah. When you would be, you know, going back and challenging your father and be like, no, I'm going to stand up for myself. As at such a young age, I'm assuming though when it got heightened to some capacity, I don't know. I don't want to speak for you. But like there could be moments you had to dissociate or go into survival mode. Because you're like, oh my god, this it. Okay. The face. You're like girl. No, yeah. What behaviors did you or you can now look back and recognize you started to lean into in these really heightened traumatic moments with your father? I actually just wrote a song about this called Silver Screen Baby. And about sort of my desperation to escape to Hollywood. I had this like very like bullish sort of headstrong belief that like my home was not ever going to feel like home in the way that it felt like to the other girls that I went to school with. Because I'm going to be honest, just like to a slight delineation. But like my home was also magical. Like that's the weird thing about living with a parent who deals with, you know, struggles with their mental health. It's some days are really beautiful and some days, some days are weeks, some days are long stretches of time and you're like, oh, and then you settle and then it's like you know upended again. So I don't ever want to make it seem like, you know, my childhood was only one thing. It was also exceptionally beautiful and special and my parents were great. Parents in a lot of ways like my mom has always been the perfect mom. Like I'm so big on saying that. She just got saddled with a very difficult like workload and situation which wasn't really her design. But my dad also was exceptional. Like there's a reason that I have spoken so highly of him and written so many songs about him and why I care so much about mental health is because it is a, it's not in your character. It's in affliction. It's something that there's a reason why we say people struggle with mental health. It's chemical. It's chemical. It's not a fucking choice. It's so like I, you know, I look at my dad as the parts of him that were so so magical. Right? Like the parts of him that, sorry. I fully came in today and I was like, I'm not going to put it all on. Sorry. No, you're fine. Sorry. I am so much of who I am is my mom, right? So much of who I am. But so much of who I am and who I grow into now. I look back and I retroactively realize was my dad and sorry. It's like the parts of him that I never got to meet as I got older. I get to meet them as I become them. Which has been like a really profound experience. You know, because I remember all these things about him. And as I get older, I see them coming out in my personality like on accident. And I'm like, oh my god, like it feels like getting a sort of a piece of closure is kind of like following a road map that has been leading me towards really feeling like his daughter. You know, because I fucking love him. So special and it's such a shame to never get to know your parent fully. I think what I think a lot of people are going to sit here and also cry with you as I'm crying because I have someone so close to me that has a very similar experience to you. And with a father and losing a father to bipolar and it's so complicated. And as we talk about it all the time and our personal moments and what I'm hearing from you, which is so helpful because it's like, oh, this is a relatable feeling where it's like the highs are so high and that doesn't mean that they're not highs. Like, yeah, and with a parent, you need to hold on to those beautiful moments. Like we can sit here and of course, it's like we're talking about the really hard moments in your childhood with this because we're not saying your father intentionally hurt you. But as a human being sitting in front of me, we would be remiss to not acknowledge that so much hurt. Yeah, there was hurt, not intentional, but it did form than who you are as a human being or your personality or your behaviors or what then you went on to accept. And so it's like we have to talk that through also to acknowledge how strong you are. But then, right, there's the moments where you now can look back at your father and be like, but then there was this creative side to him and there was this like brilliance to him. And so bipolar is really fucking confusing to the people around people like that because you see two different sides to someone. and one day you'll wake up and think about the good side and then the other day you think about the bad side and that's really confusing because most people, you're like, this is who this person is. And you can kind of be like in one sentence, but with this, you're like, there was a lot going on. - I also will very, very earnestly say that the patterning that my brain found around like, there's the person who does the thing and then the person who's there for cleanup. That really fucked me up in my dating life. - I cannot imagine because you're learning at a young age because it's your blood and your father to put up with and you're innately seeking love from your parent who you're half of, but then when you then are so used to something. - More also like so used to, yes, but also like, the thing that I could not let go of in my 20s, which is another thing that we are leading behind. The list is long. One thing that I fucking couldn't let go of, I couldn't conceptualize was if my dad could do those things, but I know he loved me. Can I believe someone who can do those things to me in a romantic relationship who then tells me they love me? And they almost went hand in hand for me for a long time. And sometimes I look back and I blame myself for staying in those relationships. Sometimes I look back with great empathy and I say I couldn't have known better. Sometimes my empathy even extends as far enough to say that they couldn't have known better, but then I die look back. - You know what I'm saying? - You definitely could have known better. - Right. - Yeah. I found myself in a lot of situations that accidentally mirrored your father and your relationship completely. - Did you ever have a moment in a relationship where it got to those moments of the most heightened where it was like scary where you then look at yourself and you're like, wait, how am I putting myself in danger? - Oh yeah, no, I'm also, I wrote a song about that also recently, which I won't share right now because it's one of my favorite songs I've ever written and I just wanna like keep it for the album. But that was actually one of the reasons that one of my relationships that I was in ended was it came to a very, very not physical, not physical, but a very, very, very, very scary moment that I was like, I'm gonna document this. Like I'm calling my mom right now. I'm calling all my friends. And it was, but it was something, it took me, it took me up until that to be like, okay, wait, this isn't love and it's not. - It's your threshold though, duh. - My threshold was high girl. My threshold was crazy, I, and I also, I also, it's such a weird thing to try to explain to people who have never been in this position. I loved that person. I was in love, I was, I was in love and it's hard to conceptualize like people who are like, but how can you love someone who does those things to you? And yes, I would say now from a healed and healthy perspective, I would agree, I would also find it inconceivable. - But I was gonna say, but I think what we also have to have empathy with ourselves and other humans when everyone's like, why did you stay and why did you do this? How would you know any better of what you deserve when within your own home there was a pattern and there was a procedure essentially that you all knew when this was happening, this is how you fall in line and then he'll apologize and then we go back to normal and then we try to pretend it didn't happen and then another moment happens and then we get through it. And so it was like this cyclical situation that you were going through that like that was your life and you just survived and lived so that when you get into a romantic relationship, how would it be if someone had boundaries and treated you right and was respectful? You'd be like, when is the other shoe gonna drop because you had never seen anything like that in your life. And so then it takes you actually learning and experiencing the world and talking to therapists and licensed people who actually are sitting there with you to be like, let me walk you through. This is not healthy, this is trauma. Yeah, well, and also like huge bouts of alone time. Like I hit like a two year dating romantic sabbatical. I was like, sabbatical. - Yeah. - We take time off. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Sorry. - My man's like not sabbatical. I just disappeared off the face of the plant. Like there was a while where I was like, whoa, I'm broken. Like I'm a broken, I don't want anyone. 'Cause I was just so disturbed. Like I was so disturbed by the places I had like gotten myself to and what I had, who I had chosen to love and who I loved. Like that's the thing is that it's complicated, right? And when you're speaking about these romantic relationships, I and how you had said, you know, you have such empathy for understandably your mother who you watched in this relationship. I think about how hard it is to leave something that is especially when you have kids. - Yes. And I know I had read in an article you had said somewhere that before your parents got divorced, things were getting very real and very adult at home. What was the breaking point for your mom to get your family out? - That's a really good question. I think that my sister went away to college and it was just me at home, which left them with 50% less distraction, you know? I was really depressed. Like, you know, sometimes there are those kids that go through like puberty and they're like, you're like, oh God. Yeah, that was me. I was like, I didn't want to be awake during the night. So I would like stay up all night. I was being home schooled. I would like just watch movies and harkening back to the Hollywood thing. I was like, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supposed to be among people who are gonna understand me and like in my mind, my like 12 year old mind. I was like, that's Hollywood because these people clearly, they have an understanding for emotion and I felt so close to these people in these movies who are making this music and it always being done in this one big amorphous town. They're all there. Like I was like, great, fucking get me there. Like I was like, that's where I'm supposed to be. As a very child like, you know, understanding of the industry. And so I was doing this thing where I was not going to school and I was staying up all night to watch movies and because I was terrified of the nighttime because I was just like traumatized. I had a hairpin trigger for any things that go bump in the night and the house was in the woods and I was like, I don't know. I'd always been a really anxious kid. I think ever since Haley died, I was just like, very easily shaken. And my parents were just kind of alone in the house and they ran a business together and I don't know. There was clearly some form of adultery happening. Like we're both of them were just kind of like, done, done, done, done. And so it was just time. Like I don't know how they could have carried on honestly. - Were you sitting in that house and feeling them both kind of doing their own things? - Oh yeah. - No, yeah. They were just a terrible, terrible match. Just like a decade of them slowly burning out. - So you eventually get your dream. You are sitting there, you're watching these movies, you're dreaming about going to this land where everyone is and everyone's getting to act and perform and do all these things and you've watched this growing up for so long and then your parents get divorced and your mom and you go to LA. And I remember reading that you were going for auditions and Disney said that you came off as dark and off-putting. (laughing) - That's still so funny. - It's the same girl, you are too dark for Disney. - They were like, please stop that. - Smile. - Yeah, but they literally asked my agents to stop. - Oh my god. - They were like, she's never gonna be her, like give it up. But we came out and I was getting sent out on all this Disney stuff and I remember saying to my mom, like I don't wanna do Disney because I felt like it was gonna be a lifelong commitment. I felt like I had grown up watching the girls try so hard to break away from it and be respected. And I knew even when I was 13 or 14, I was like, this is gonna be hard. Like this is gonna be something really hard. That sounds so ungrateful. But this was something before I got the opportunity that I was like, I don't know, I don't know. 'Cause I really wanted to do movies and TV shows that felt like more adult, but for that age bracket, there were like, you play the daughter of so and so or like. - But it also makes sense and I get what you're saying. You're grateful, but you're also, this whole conversation we've been talking about how you've always felt older than your age. And that was the other thing. - Right, so you're like, Disney, like I've been watching these movies and I'm seeing myself in this older light and then to do Disney and again, Disney was established at this point, right? Like remembering one kind of Montana came out. Like that was new. Everyone didn't know that this could become this whole format, Hillary Duff, right? When you came into it, you had these people that you could look at and there was a blueprint essentially laid out of like, now we're watching these people try to grow out of this persona and it's very different. - There was a whole stigma around it. There was a whole like, like people, I would write articles about like so and so gets a tattoo to be a bad girl. And I was like, I'm on a, I already have a tattoo. Like I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm a fuck fuck fuck. Like this is never worth. - I better have a wee smoking. I have the tattoo. - I was like, yes. I was like, there's no part of me that is like sheltered, you know? And I also was like, I didn't think I could be funny at the time. Like I perceived myself already as like too dark and too whatever for Disney. Everybody with my life had been insane. Like I was just not, I was not gonna be the girl who came up like fresh faced off the, you know, the, what is that? Like the Greyhound Buzz being like, - Yeah. - Here I am, like it was not a charming story. I was like, here we go. - What's up fuckers? - Deeply disturbed. Yeah. I was already deeply disturbed. And so I was like, they're never gonna pick me. Like fucking. - Okay. - They did. So live in Maddie, then you get the show. - Yeah. They called me and they were like nine months after we shot the original pilot. They were like, hey, your show's getting picked up. I'll see you on Monday. Like, but by the way, you're playing twins. - You feel like cool. - No, I was like, I was on the 405 or something. My, and it was like, they called from like an anonymous number, which they always do. Like they called from this like, no caller ID. - Oh my god. - Like the Disney Pentagon. - Literally. - Yeah. And it was like my mom's cell phone at the time. And it was like, no caller ID. And we were on the 405 and we were like, oh my god, you know, 'cause we were like, we were like, we had, my mom was melting down gold to pay for our rent. Like based on her own personal jewelry, 'cause she was a jeweler. Not 'cause she had loads of gold. - Right. - And so we were like, oh my god. - It was like the call that changed our lives, yeah. And I took it. And it was just such a beautiful experience. Like to harken back to the thing where I sound like massively ungrateful. Disney was some of the most fun and joyful times of my life. Like I had a great fucking time on Disney channel, which is why like you'll see me talking about it. So, 'cause I'm not, I know what it was. I know that that's not who I am. I know that it was like a thing that I did when I was a kid and when I was a teenager. And it's something that like I look back on and I appreciate it for what it is. Like we recently rewatched all the Descendants films and I was like, these fucking movies are so insane. That like I can't believe they got away with it. Like at the CGI dragons and like, it's like one long acid trip for kids. - Right. - You know what I mean? Like I was, I'm behind it. I love it. It's so beautiful though that you're able to enjoy it because again, I think maybe because of, I don't know why. Like maybe like you said, like seeing people in the comments and still remembering it, I think it's okay that like, it's like, that was a version of you. And I think sometimes understandably we tried to grow up quickly and we're like, I don't wanna be my younger version myself, but how beautiful that that was such a huge part in your life and don't forget. Like you just said that you and your mom and the 405 and you needed this job and it changed your life. And I got Disney really like changed my whole fucking life. And they supported me so much too. Like that was really the thing. I had great relationships in there. Like you know, there was the thing that like is very expected which is just like I came into Disney, yes with a tattoo at 14 and I was, you know, swearing as much as I swear now and I was a full adult and I had all this trauma like full adult, but like you know, for that age, yes. And I had all this trauma. And basically they were like, in like the friendliest way possible they were like, okay, so we love you. You're not relatable. And I was like perfect, right? That's fair and I believe you. And so like they did everything they could to make me more relatable like God bless them. They were like, they were like, so we wanna make like a music video and have your best friend in it. But like, you know, they wanted to make me more like I guess age appropriate. And so they did that. They were always very upfront about communicating about that. And I was very team player with like when I would do interviews, you know, I would give the answer that you would give if you were talking to kids. Like that's really the thing that I think a lot of people get confused about with like who I was when I was on Disney and who I am now. They're like, there's a crazy contrast. And it's like, but no, because I walked into this contract being like, I'm on a children's network. - Right, you knew the formula. - If I went on and did an interview for Tiger Beat or Teen Vogue and I was talking like how I do now, I'm like, I fucking, that would be stupid and also inappropriate. Like I'm 30 now, I can do it now. I could do it when I was 25 and forward. It's like I am no longer on a children's network even though they're syndicated forever. - Of course, of course. - But it's like, I think people think that it was like this crazy switch up when in fact I was just like a good employee. - This is the job. - This is the job, yeah, it was never a lie. I'm just like not gonna swear or be naked. Or like I remember the first time I posted a picture in a bikini and like the internet lost their minds. And I was like, okay, not yet. - Yeah, they're like nevermind. - You're not there yet. - See you in four years. - Yeah, I'll try again next year. - Really, which is why like, it's funny because I still sometimes get asked about like, how did you break out of your Disney role? Or there she goes, try to break out of your Disney role. And I'm like, I literally, I actually, I think I try super, I wouldn't say super hard, but like I have no interest in bursting any sort of Disney bubble because I truly believe like that's over there and those shows and movies live on forever. That's not me and I'm over here doing this. And they don't really cross for me. And so I don't have any like desire to burst in the balloons or illusions. I also think like there, I see so much like someone will bring up like a song that I've released and they'll be like, that's Doug Cameron. And I'm like, great. So these people are over here knowing this and these people are over here knowing this and that's okay. You've grown and you've grown and you've evolved and you've changed. You have the version of me that you want. Absolutely, that's for you. (upbeat music) When you were on Disney, obviously moving to Los Angeles, kind of also circling back to the conversation of, you move away from home, did you have a relationship with your father when you moved to LA and got this role? That is a very good question and a very complicated answer. My dad and I, so my parents had split, but not for very long before we moved to LA. And we, my mom lived in like the tiniest apartment on Bainbridge and my dad still lived in our family home. And I wanted to go live with my mom in the new apartment because it was like really close to the fairy boat. And if I'm being honest, I could sneak out of the house and go see my friends. Like I was like sliding screen door. It was in like our little like town area, you know? So I was staying there a lot and I think probably retroactively like my dad felt like I was taking my mom's side. But then my sister kind of came home from college 'cause she was like, I don't love this college. I wanna be home. And there was a day where I was in my room at the family home, a sleep and I was 13, 12, 13, like right before I moved to LA. And my dad wanted me and my sister to like come eat breakfast and bed and listen to the radio or watch a movie or something, which like we were a very cuddly household. Like it was very like come down in your PJs and be half asleep and like I made eggs kind of thing. And he was like, "Clow, come down." And I was like, "No, I'm sleeping." You know, whatever 12 year old answer you give. And he was like, "You can be sleepy." Just like come down and be sleepy down here. 'Cause you're never here. So like come be with us. And I was like, "Okay." And I came downstairs and I got in the huge bed and I went to sleep and I got woken up because he had thrown me out of the bed. And he was starting on some monologue about like, you're so ungrateful. You don't even wanna be here. You are trying everything you can to get away from me. Like get out, get out of the house. And I think that was a really important moment for me because I had finally had it confirmed for me that I was not the thing that was making my dad upset. Because when I was younger, I really, really blamed myself for anytime my dad would get upset. It was my fault. That's what you naturally think as a kid. And in this situation, I was asleep, right? I don't think I've ever told a story actually. I don't know, I can't remember. But it sounds like nothing, but for me, it was a really big deal because I was woken up literally by like hitting the floor and hearing all these things. And so my brain was able to like through a adrenaline process. Like I couldn't have done anything to cause this because I was asleep. He told me I could come down and be asleep. This is all happening in his brain. And so I rather than leaving, I went upstairs to my room. I packed a little stupid bag of like any suitcase that I had. And I was like, whatever 12 year old language I had, that was the equivalent of like actually fuck you. And I went downstairs and I called my mom on my like $20 flip phone that I had because I went to theater camp and I had to like be, I had to call them. I didn't have, you know, but I called her and I was out sitting on my suitcase and my dad came out and was like, wait, no, sorry, sorry. And I was like, no. Absolutely not. Like I'm cool on this. I'm good on this. I'm not going to be talked to you like that. I think I remember saying something to him that like, I wish I didn't say but was like, you know, like we're blood, we're family. But like I didn't choose to love you and like I choose to separate from you. Because this is not healthy for me. You don't do it to mom. You don't do it to Claire. And clearly I'm not doing anything to cause it. So like I'm not going to be your outlet. And so I went to go live with my mom. And then when we finally, I finally convinced her to LA like the crazy, you know, 12, 13 that I was, I was like, you're not going to start over again. Like you just got divorced. Like, you know, there's so many more job opportunities and I love making shit up, right? I was like, please. You know, we said goodbye. We were like, we're just going to do this for six months. And then we're going to come back like my dad was super concerned about he was like, I'm really scared. Holly was going to show you up and spit you out like whatever idiom he used. And I was like, no, I'm going to be fine. And then I started booking things. And my dad came out to LA to visit because he had some like a trade show to do because they were wholesalers. And so he brought like all of his stuff out. And he stayed on our floor because again, not really making any money. And he stayed on like a blow up mattress. And I remember, I think I have spoken about this, but it came out to be like, like snuggle him and say good night. And he like rolled over and turned his back and was like, can I close? Like I, I think you should go to bed. And I was like, something bad's going on there. Like I genuinely, I thought it was my fault. Like I genuinely just thought I'd upset him by moving to LA. Like I didn't know what was happening or that he was like purposefully distancing himself in that way. So I went to bed and I tried my very best to like spend extra time with him and like lots of hugs, lots of kisses, lots of like, you okay, like kind of stuff. And then he went back to Washington and it couldn't have been that many months after that that we got the call that he had. Yeah, taken his life. Yeah. So it was a bit of a like a blurry, weird time to say the least. I'm so sorry because even hearing from the bed incident to then you trying to connect with your father, like there was so much clearly between the two of you, how you're describing it never really happened to your mom and your sister where you really were. Yeah. Putting out bids for connection with him. Yeah. And in moments he would take it in moments he wasn't capable, right, of taking it because of where he was at mentally. Yeah. Yeah. You were always in the same place mentally. Yeah. So you were always waiting and it kind of was always on his timeline and it was. That's true. I have never thought about it. Like you were there always with waiting for your dad and sometimes he would show up. Oh my god, I'm going to cry now. And sometimes he wouldn't. And so to have that last moment with him where you really tried and then to get that call, I can't even imagine who, did you get the call or did you mom, like how did you handle that? Um, thank you for that by the way, because I actually very rarely have people be able to tell me something new that I haven't thought about. So that's really like really helps me put it in perspective. Thank you. Um, because that's so the feeling, right? And it's like, it's actually really hard to articulate that. Um, so thank you. Um, you were the constant. Yeah. Yeah. But just exhausting. Yeah. And I think like you, you know, that's something that I really like, I'm really happy that I grew out of. But it still shows up for me thematically. So like you kind of synthesizing that for me so perfectly is going to help me be able to tackle that is like not always feeling like it's my job to be the constant. Um, yeah. It's a good one. Like the constant, 2026, stop being the constant. Yeah. Be inconsistent. No, give them nothing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you'll be the constant. Yeah, I don't know how to do that. Um, no, but basic shit. Yeah, just bring it back. Shit. Um, we found out in a really weird kind of layered way because, um, again, techno community. There was a woman who was like a kind of a, like a lynch pin, like a, like a sort of a connection between, um, my mom and my dad who knew the whole family. And she had messaged me on Facebook. Like that's how long ago this was. And she was like, she'd never messaged me before, right? Um, and she goes, Hey, is your mom around? And I was like, stomach sink. And I just knew I can't tell you why I knew, um, but it was not a normal interaction. She had no reason to be talking to me. I was, however, I was 15, you know. Um, at this point, and when I responded like, no, but she's going to be home soon and she said, okay, and then it was like typing, went away, typing, went away. And she was like, uh, please tell her to reach out to her brother or something like that. Like please tell her to, it wasn't called her that person. It was like someone in the family. And at my, my childhood best friend at the time, my other childhood best friend, Carla, was living with me. And we were like watching cartoons. And I was like, oh my god, I'm going to remember this moment forever is the moment that my dad died. And we were in my bed laughing watching cartoons. Um, and my mom came home and she talked to her brother. Um, and she put him on speaker. And he was really breathless and like sounded like, you know, he was running. But I'm sure he was just like having a panic attack. And he was like, um, I just went to the house. Um, I can't even remember what he said before he said the last bit, but Phil is no longer with us. And I had a panic attack. I don't know. Like I, I had a panic attack because I, it's the most out of control feeling you can have is like the phone call. Um, and actually all three of my big losses have come via phone call, you know, like which I guess is pretty standard because like what's, what you're going to happen in front of you, it's a different thing. But I have like, uh, yeah, major phone anxiety, I think because of stuff like this, um, not to like get off topic, but I, it's such an alien thing to learn about something so like there's a before this and then there's an after this over the phone and like what the fuck is he going to tell us? Like what, how is he going to phrase that in a way that like he can get through and then my mom having to like look to me and then my best friend who's there living with us looking to me and I'm looking at them and like I, I think I ran out of the room. I think I like, I couldn't breathe like the brain just breaks. Like that's really the thing they don't tell you about trauma and actually like I think that's part of like people, people when they watch movies, I think they get so accustomed to like, oh, when someone dies, you're like, oh my god, they pat, you go into this like animal mode. Like you, you are fight flight or freeze. You feel like you're going to vomit your soul. Like I don't know how else to describe it. It's like this horrible, inexpressible, fiery, painful knife like thing and you're all you're trying to do is like purge it, purge it, purge it and it's impossible to purge. I, um, I think that feeling is again, like something a lot of people are going to, um, relate to because I think it like, yes, death is inevitable, but you've experienced such sudden and unexpected loss that I'm not saying one or the other is easier. It's just when something happened so unexpected. Like there is the shock and grief that are warped and wrapped together and not having time to say goodbye and, oh my god, the worst. Like you're, you're riddled with like so many emotions that you don't even know which one to tap into. So then you're just like, you just, you're just there. You're just there and you're existing and it's a horrible feeling in the days and weeks. After you got this news, what do you think for you is the hardest thing to wrap your head around? Um, honestly, the way it happens. because he took his own life and I wanted, like I kept imagining because no one would tell me how he did it. Like I know that's really more bid, but I think I wanted to know I needed to know. And then it was worse when I knew and they were right, but like I wouldn't, I would have, I was torturing myself like trying to imagine. And like I think honestly, and I'm gonna honestly try to stop crying because it's like, it's a lot. But I think honestly, like the thing that still plagues me, like the thing that I'm still like, because I can mostly, for the most part, talk about my life with a sort of a distance at this point. Like I can be like, this is what happened. This is how old I was. This is how I processed it. This is the good things that came out of it. This is how it evolved me in this way. This is what I can be grateful for, or whatever. Like I have enough distance. And also the body and the brain just shut down. Like I don't know if anybody who's listening to this can attest or relate to the fact that like the body does not want to process everything at once. And so sometimes like your emotions, the valves just don't feel like they're on. So like I can talk about this, like it happened to someone else. But sometimes the thing that like, like I really wake up in the middle of the night, like I catch my breath kind of thing is, is just imagining like his final moments alone, where he was like, do I do it or not, you know? And like he didn't even know, you know, like what that thought process like or like, you know, did he think like if someone had called if, you know, it's that kind of thing where you're just like, could it have been different? And what did that feel like for him? And did he know how loved he was? Did he feel loved? Was he was he mentally there? Like dude, it's fucking, it's fucked, dude, it's, it's really fucked. And I joke about my trauma because it's like, what else are you going to do? But like, oh god, it's really the thing that like, it's really the thing that it really brings you back to, to earth and to what matters and like it puts everything in a perspective because I am so marked by death and I'm so marked by loss and there's a big part of that that I really appreciate because I, I feel closer to the people that I love and, and I love differently and I, I live my life differently and I, I'm not so scared about things that I might be scared about, how I not had like the, you know, the comparison of the Mount Everest of loss, right? Like, there's beautiful things that come out of everything. Does that mean that I wouldn't change them or take them all back? Like, no, I would much rather have these things had not happened. Like, have had these things not happen. But, but I, I do think that like, you know, part of the things that I really love about myself and my life now are marked by just the sort of deepening that happens with grief and like, the level of fascination and love and appreciation and bonding that I have with humans in general. Like, I think it's given me a kind of a, a comfortability with, with strangers and with people that I truly don't know or have no context of like, I think that there's a certain like veil that drops when you realize how deep, how deeply humans can feel pain. Like, to, to know that there is someone that you look at like a hero or a complex character and someone that you love and you worship. The fact that they can be so sad and so lonely and so empty that they make the, you know, the ultimate decision is, is something that it just, everybody's so fragile and I really walk around the world feeling that way, right? I agree and I also think that's why like even speaking to you right now, it's like why I'm so appreciative of my job is like, I get to sit with people like you who I only have had at one point the privilege of watching on TV or listening to your music and you can get so much from it and and we're going to get to all of it in the new show and all that. But what I think makes you then feel more connected to those people, especially with the internet now is like when people do have the strength to share these kind of things, this isn't easy. Like we're not like sitting here and it's like, oh, this is, let's just tell this story so people can get to know you better. It's like, I'm also crying because I'm like, this is bringing up stuff for me, right? And it's like, we're also connected when you're saying these things. It's like everyone watching this will, will yes feel more connected to you, but also it's therapeutic to hear other people talk about the heavy fucking shit because we do convince ourselves in moments that maybe this is an isolated experience and maybe this is and yes, all of our experiences are unique to us, but the themes and what it brings up and the emotions that human beings experience of anger and loneliness and grief and happiness and all the things, we all go through it. So it's, it's, um, it's helpful sometimes to talk through things because you are on it at a different place in your life right now when you're speaking about it, right? Like I said, if I interview you in five years from now, we may have a different conversation about this because you're going to live and you're going to experience and you're going to meet more people and you're going to then have a different perspective on life, but um, to kind of close out that chapter because I think loss is something that people don't talk about enough and I do think the way they completely agree, right? And the way you just talked about it, I literally felt like I was just sitting with my friend because I've had, I've had conversations like this of the what ifs and had they not or what would have had and all these things, um, this is the real shit and I get movies have to do it a specific way, but this is, this is it, this is years later and this is how we're feeling here and we're still grieving and grieving isn't for a year and you're done like it is. Oh, dude, it's forever. It's forever. It's forever. Yeah. You legally changed your name. Yeah. From Chloe to Dove and from what I can understand, you tell the story, but why and where did Dove come from? My dad used to call me Dove as a nickname, when I was a kid, Dove and like, you know, little stupid things like that. It was never like, like he would, there was, when I was really young, I think it was more of a thing than when I got older, but it was something that like always felt, you know, like a me and him thing, like personal, sweet intimate. And so I think when I got older, I just wanted to feel like even, even, even before he passed, I was wanting to feel that connection with him. I was wanting to feel like his daughter. I was wanting a piece of him. And so I did that in honor of him and to feel more, like everywhere I went, everyone was calling me what he used to call me. Okay. Shifting the conversation a little bit. Let's get into it. You referenced how all of these things obviously can impact your romantic relationships. And I obviously know that there's a little, well, a big ring on your finger. You are recently engaged. Yes. I need to know how through all of the experiences and whether toxic or traumatic or just not the right fit, how did you know he was the one? Oh God. I knew really early. I knew like way too early. I wrote a song about that too. I was like, like I hadn't even told him I loved him when I was like, this is probably like if he's not the person I end up marrying, that's going to like really break my heart because my body and my mind and everything feels like that's what this is. So I was like super freaked out about that. Like naturally, I was like, shit. I really was. That was uneasy. I was really uneasy. And he also was in a very different place in his life. Like he was not, I think he would feel comfortable with me saying he was not the happiest. He was struggling emotionally and everything was. And so he was also not like matching my level of like, oh, this feels like something really special. He was still like kind of an enigma. You know what I mean? Like he was kind of behind layers of glass. But I was like, I just have this feeling that whoever's behind these layers of glass is going to be someone very important to my life. And so we started dating in the most ridiculous way. We met at the VMAs. She's like the stupidest way you can meet your partner. Not because the VMAs are stupid, but because it's like one - I don't leave you. - Like it sounds like a book, like a fan fiction, you know? Like it's like we ran into each other and passing and it was like, this is too bad, it's so dumb. - Wait, then what did you do? Just like get each other's number? - No, okay, here's something I wanna go on the record. - Oh, let's go on the record. - And I wanna clarify a couple things, all right? We're done crying with time to be seen. - Yeah, well let's go, let's go. - It's time to be serious. So we met for, I have to say, if I were to accurately estimate 14 seconds at the most. - Okay. - At the 20 year old, she's like, she's like, I'm tapping in, I'm tapping in. - I'm driving right in my eyes, getting rid of the salt water. I would say it couldn't have been more than 14 or 15 seconds at the 2022 VMAs. They, he is in a band called Monascin and they were up for an award. I was up for the same award. What you do, cordially is whoever wins, after you go like, congrats dude. So I won and so we're backstage and the backstage is very small. It is the size of like a fucking, I don't know, it's like, I don't know what's it compared to. - What accent are we going into? - If I say what it is, everyone's gonna tell me it's not that. So it's, it's close. - It's close. - Okay, okay, it's so fucking, it's a small area, it's like the size of like, it's tiny. - Like in front of a movie, like in front of a movie, they're like the concession stage. - It's like that and like a little bit of standing room. And that's how small it is, it's small, you've seen it. - We're rubbing shoulders. - It's small back there. - Tiny. - We're rubbing shoulders and there's four of them. So I just won the award. I'm like, oh my god, I won the VMA. I come backstage and they're naturally like, nice to meet you, congrats. And I actually spoke with Victoria, his bassist. And she was like, congrats girl. And I was like, yeah, congrats girl. Like you're amazing. And then Ethan and Thomas were like, congrats. And then Damianna was in the back. So he barely looked at me. Like and he was also not giving off friendly vibes. Like he was like, I was like, that guy fucking hates me. All right, so we're like, I was like, gonna go on with my night. Like I met a bunch of people. Everybody was like, congrats. And I was like, I didn't think about it. It was not, there's this whole conspiracy online that I locked eyes with him and I was like, I'm biting my tongue. And I waited like a year and a half and then I like struck. Like that's not what happened. I met it. I literally met him for no time, guys. And then he was back there like this and he was like, congrats. And I was like, oh, weird vibe. And I was like, nice to meet you. And later I learned he was just like in a really bad place. Like it had nothing to do with me, but I took it personally and I was like, fucking weird, all right. Bye. And this is the other thing I have to clear up. Dun, dun. I'm like, what's the fucking like cops music? Like, dun, dun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't like the direct look to camera. She's like, hello. Listen up, ladies and gentlemen and everybody listening. There was this interview that they did where they were like, what celebrities have slid into your DMs? And Domiano before I even like met him, I think. I don't know what the timeline was because I don't know when they did this interview. Right. Was like, dove Cameron. And now everybody's like, she was trying for no, no, no. I looked back because I was like, what is this? I had posted and tagged them in a video performance of them with the I Heart Radio and these go words. And I was like, cool band. Right. And then the new queen. And then you slot in it looks like you DM'd. But I think he was saying that's like sliding into the DMs. Like I don't think he thought it was like, who's flirting with you? He was like, who tagged you? Who interacted with you? Who DM'd you? That was it. Meanwhile, the people are thinking you're like, hey babe. Oh, well, especially because first of all, I am nothing if not practical. Even if I think someone is maybe cute, first of all, I have never slid into DMs in a flirtatious way because I'm not good over text. And also, what if I don't like you in real life? What if we have this whole thing over text? And then I meet you and I'm like, I don't like you. Like I'm not gonna do that. You know, so like you can look back at my text record. Anytime someone is slid into my DMs, seen. I'm not reply. It's weird. Like catch me in real life. I don't know. Catch me in real life. Like we have chemistry. So that didn't happen. I tagged them in something. And I tagged the band. So is the internet like making it seem like you're like, you were like obsessed with him for years? Not the whole internet, but there's a small section of people that always bring up their like, but she did slide into his DIA. And I'm like, no, really guys, please leave me alone. I fully did it. And I also looked back because I was like, did I? Right. Because he set that before I like had really met him. So I was like, I must have. And it was because I tagged them because I was so impressed by them. Of course. I was a fan of their music. And then the 2023 VMAs roll around. And we had a reason to talk. And he was single. And I was single. And he was in a better place. And I was in a better place. And he was like, I don't know if you remember me. I'm Damiano. And I was like, yeah, I remember you. Like you're so different now. Like he was so friendly. And then he was like, do you want to come to our show at Madison Square Garden? And I was like, yeah. And then we just started dating. And now we're engaged. Like it's so, so innocent and simple. But it's amazing. And it's so cute too. It's really, it's really cute. It's really cute that it started that way now to be like you're fully engaged. Like it's also so like, I don't know, like meet cute. Like I look back and I'm like all the different stars that had to align to make that happen. - Fully. - It blows my mind. - And it didn't just happen overnight. It was just like slow burn, but first fully. - Well, it was just like all these different ways that we almost, but then we didn't until it was right. Like that's what's mind blowing to me. Because if I had met him before I did in a way where he was interested in me, and there was an opportunity for us to be dating, I would not have been ready. 'Cause I was so depressed. - So like you weren't in a place to date. - No, I was like celibate. - I was like, that was the, that was the, that was the medical high list. - That was the medical high list. - So we discussed celibacy era where I was like, don't touch me, don't look at me, don't come close to me. I'm not leaving my house. Like I was like dark night of this whole for a year. - And then you were ready. - I literally texted my friends and I was like, I think I'm ready to date one week later. He was like, nice to meet you. I was like, oh my God. - Wait a minute. - So then give us a little tidbit. How did it go down? Give me something. - Okay, so it's actually very funny and then like very sweet. - Okay. - 'Cause so, I'm obsessed. - It's honestly, it sends me because, if you knew him this would be so cute and funny. But so he's a Capricorn too. - Okay. - And he is like the most regimented, like by the book's guy. Like he's like, there's a way that things should be done. And if they are not done that way, then it's wrong. And so we had talked about the fact that we wanted to get married. Like I knew, it was not like this big like will he won't he? - Yes. - Like I knew it was coming. 'Cause he told me. He was like, I'm gonna propose. And I was like, really? And he was like 100%. - So you knew. - Yeah, but he'd been telling me for a long time. Like I think he told me up to like six months of dating that he was like, I'm gonna propose, but not for a couple years. And I was like, great. Do you? - Yeah. - I was like, love that. Also I also was a little bit like, maybe he won. Like he says that now. It's only been a couple months. And then at the top of like 2024, he was like, no, top of 2025, we were in New York. And he was like, we were both like crying. And he was like, I wanna marry you. And I was like, I know me too. And he was like, nobody wanna marry you. And I was like, I know. We were spoken about this like me too. - Right. - And he was like, I wanna marry you as soon as possible. And I was like, oh, okay. But like you have to go on your world tour. And like, at the time I was also supposed to go on my world tour. And I was like, my show is gonna come out. Like all this stuff's happening. We wouldn't be able to do it for two years. He was like, no, I think we could do it next year. And so like all every step of the way I knew. - You were speaking about this openly. - Yeah, because I don't think that that thing in the movies is. - I agree. You need to grow up and you're like, wait. - Well, and you should like be an active participant in deciding if you want to get married. - Or like what that looks like. Or do your values align. - Talk about it all before. - This future. Like what do you want kids? Like what about how do you feel about where do you want to live? Like you cannot. - You're into a contract. Like just, you grew up with these movies as a girl. And they're all like, (gasps) - Yeah, they're like, now I have to leave my apartment and it's like, wait, put it. Not to say that you should always live together, but you should at least experience what it's like to live with someone. - And you should be in my opinion. - You can be shocked by the moment he decides to do it, but you shouldn't be shocked that he's doing it. - I agree, because like, all in all these movies, it's like, that's my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my, oh my God, he chose me. And it's like, no. - Fucking weird. I want to be in on this. - I did the same thing with my husband now. I was like, I'm ready, you can do it. 'Cause he had been like, I'm ready whenever you're ready and finally turned him at one dinner, I was like, you can do it. - I had it in his pocket. I was like, I don't know when it's happening, but you can do it. Like I'm ready. - You're right. - And then we were both talked about it for a long time before then it happened. So like, we're on the same page. Again, everyone has different ideas, but I'm on the same page. - For me, I just wanna, it's not that I don't like being surprised. It's just that like, yeah, it's, again, it just feels practical. It just feels adult, right? - Okay, so. - So I know it's coming, but I don't know when. And he's telling me things like, oh, we're starting to design the ring. And I was like, what does that mean? Like does that mean it's two weeks away? Does it mean it's six months away? Like such an amorphous concept. And so I start like telling a couple of my friends, like I'm going into songwriting sessions being like, I don't see you fucking designing the ring. And they're like, I'm like, what's the fucking plan? Like I'm not a girl girl like that. Like what are we gonna do? And they were like, you have to wear white every fucking day. And I was like, You're so fucking right queen. Like I gotta order all this fucking white. And we were going on this vacation in August. It's a Poo-ya. Did I say that right, Italians? I really tried. And which is like a beachy Italian getaway. And I was like, this is what it was gonna have. And I was like, we're going away for three weeks. - White. - This was exactly, I was like, "White for breakfast." - White for lunch. - Exactly. - He's like, wow, you look so, somebody said the other day, it's not funny. Someone was like, wow, baby, you look like you're about to join a cult. Like it's like, it is true. It's so like, it's so like, - You open your luggage bag and you're like, "Yeah, yeah, dude." - Yeah, dude, and also in practical for a vacation, like your legs, everything's fucking dirty. - Yep. - But I was like, trying my best. Like every day I was like, learning how to use like bronzer. I was like, I was like, going in the sun, and like doing like extra like little braids. - I did. - You can go back and look at my TikTok. I was doing it. - Oh my God. - People will be like, oh yeah, this is when she thought she was gonna get her post-do, I was like trying to be girly. Vacation, you know, we're on like one of the final nights and he goes like, I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I'm just a little drunk and I can't wait for you to see the ring. It's like a ring for a princess. And I was like, so it's not a ring. - It's not a ring. - So I was like the rings. - Not here. - Oh my God. - And so I didn't have a problem. I was just like, I wanna be, at least scared. - You wanna just wanna be. - You're just so cute. - Looking cute. - I get it. - All this time's going by and I'm like, maybe it's this, maybe he's gonna do it here. And literally like my manager who's in the other room, we were like guessing. Being like, maybe it's Japan, you guys love Japan. I was like, this true, but like, but he wouldn't wanna do it in public. - Well, he's the one trying to crack this code. - I have to stop wearing white. - Oh, girl, it's like, it's getting weird. I'm wearing so much white. No, but so all the girls were like, "Huh?" And I was like, "Ah." So again, I was not in any hurry, but it was just like, he's been talking about it for so long that it was like a six month period that it could have been anytime, right? - Okay. - So one day, we're at home. And I had said, "Baby, we talked about it like a year ago that he was like, I always felt like it would be really romantic to propose like doing something normal so that it's like, you know, this is like our life together." And I was like, "Yeah, I'm not really one for like big outlandish, like again, I'm a Capricorn." So I'm like, if you throw me a surprise party, I'm gonna be like, "Oh, thank you," but it's not like how I would plan it. And so I was like, "Yeah, something low-key I agree, but like you do you. Like I want you to be happy." - Yes. - Basically, we were packing. And I was in just a big t-shirt, no makeup. My hair was like damp. And it was so funny because he'd been finished packing, of course, 'cause I was like, I'm always like trying to pack like a fucking, I was like, I've never packed before in my life. And so I'm like running around and I was in a particularly good mood and he was in the hallway watching me running in out of rooms like a Tasmanian devil. And he wasn't moving from that spot. And I was like, I was like at this point, he'd be like playing video game. Or like something, right? Like I'm done packing. And so I came out again and I like gave him a kiss on the cheek and he did that thing. I don't know if your partner ever does this, but you know when guys go, - Yes. - That look was like, suddenly you're like, oh god. And I knew, and I fucking knew. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, 'cause I was like, I gotta go put on a dress. I gotta go do my makeup. Like I gotta do something. 'Cause I had made him promise that at least we would try to take a photograph of the moment. And so I like, (laughs) and I went into the other room and I was like, I like kept packing and I was like, no. 'Cause I told him, I told him that I wanted to, like I wanted to photograph a cabinet. So there's just an officeographer here. And I was like trying to like, and he goes, babe. And I was like, oh my god, oh my god. 'Cause also, I just write before someone proposes like your heart rate just goes through the roof. And he was like, can you come into the room please? And I went into the living room and he got down in one knee and I do it. I swear I'm not gonna cry. But I started crying immediately. I was like, because he, it was so fucking charming and sweet and kind and moving 'cause he was like, he was like, I know that some girls want like rose petals in these big, extravagant things, but I wanted to do it like this because I want you to know that I, the reason I wanna marry you is because I want this life with you, I want dishes, I want laundry, I want normalcy, I want you in your big t-shirt and your no makeup and I want a life life. And I choose this, I choose you, I hope you choose me, I hope you choose this. And I was like, you're like, fuck the white dress. - That's what I was like. - Dude, I was like, I was so, I mean, what more could you ask for? - You can't, that's the real shit in life. And of course, and if you choose to do a wedding and you wanna do all the pictures and that's when that can come, and if you choose that, - But I was so wrong 'cause it was so, it was so much more special the way that he did it. And like-- - And real? - Yeah, and that's so like who he is as a person. Like he's so, I don't know, he really is the most normal, grounded, beautiful, smart. And like, and it's so, the funniest part was, at the end when I go, 'cause of course, I'm like, yes, yes, and I'm crying. And he shows me the ring and I'm like, gobs met 'cause wow. - It's so beautiful. - I really couldn't have met-- - It's perfect. - Rose gold too. - Like, what a guy. - What a fucking guy. - It's perfect. - And at the very end, I go, by the way, I'm downplaying it, I was crying a lot. At the end, I go, wait, but you said there was gonna be photographic evidence and he picks up his phone and he's like, I was videoing. And so now we have this like minute long video of the proposal in our living room. And you see me like this and you see me shaking. - Oh my god. - And him being like, oh no, it's too big. And I'm like, it's okay, they're always too big. Like, it's so beautiful. - It's so beautiful too because again, I think every couple, like, you, he knows you. And you know him. And so you look back on that and we again, back to the movies, we have these specific ideas. And some people that actually, the over the top is right. Some people, the more quiet. Like, it's you need to know your person and the fact that he knows you and he listened to you and he actually almost knew you better than yourself in that moment of exactly what you wanted. - Well, he did because I was over in the other room being like, oh god, I look like shit. - No, it's perfect. - And he was there being like, I, this is you. I shoot, you know. - It's so beautiful. And I'm also curious, you know, of everything we also have been talking about today. You've been through so much in your life. And I think a lot of times when you meet a partner romantically, at some point you need to share with them what you've been through and who you are and how have you been able to share with him the moments in your life that have, yes, shaped you and made you who you are in the positives and also the traumatic things that have happened to you. And like, how has he met you where you needed to be met essentially? - Weirdly with ease. Like I, I told him everything about myself that I thought was make or break or that I thought was educational or that I thought was too much, pretty immediately. Like I was like, I'm not gonna be anything else for you. I've done that before. Here's absolutely everything. Even the things I don't want to admit to myself. Here's my mistakes. Here's the things that I wish I did differently. Here's all the loss. Here's my things I still struggle with, which is like, do you sign on for this? And he was like, yeah, like he just was like, picked it up and put it on his back. Like he was, oh my God, it was so healing for me and it continues to be right because like, I'll never forget actually this was a big important moment for me. We were watching Titanic for the first time because I don't think he'd seen it weirdly. Like one of the classics he hadn't seen. And there's a moment at the very end when someone commits suicide. And I had forgotten about it 'cause I hadn't seen Titanic in so long. But that happened and I immediately, we were like lying in bed and this was like month four, like early and we'd been long distance for the first two months. And he had like his hand on my stomach and I was laying on his chest and we were watching this and it was too early in our relationship for me to break the chill, you know, to like show true full trauma. But he just sensed my stomach go, (laughs) at that and his brain went, oh of course and he changed his entire posture. He didn't ask me, he pulled me in, he like, he started petting me and then he reached up without even seeing and started to wipe away what he knew was gonna be tears. And at the end of the movie, he let the air be open to be like, do you wanna talk about, do you not wanna talk about that? And at the end I was like, I wanna talk about it and he has always been so intuitive, supportive, truly like unflappable, unshakable and so ready to, especially with this be like, I do not know, I cannot say the words that heal, but like he's been, he's like a big, I think I've said this before, but like a big basin for all of these things and because he only has the interest in not carrying it for me because he knows he can't, but like loving me through it, he's never wavered. Like I've never once seen him be like, is too much. I've seen him get frustrated when he can't help me where he's like, "Of course. I wish I could lift this for you and take it almost for you." Yeah. But he's just the most evolved, beautiful young man. It really still shakes me. No, when I appreciate you sharing, because I do know you guys are more private, but I think to all the people listening who've been on this journey with us today, I think when you hear and you know you've been through so much in your life and there's people that are going to be like, "Girl, I can relate on so many of these topics and themes." I think sometimes we can convince ourselves, there's no way I'll find someone who can, who would be, "Handle this, right? Handle it." And what you're talking about actually, which is so beautiful, is like, "No, no. You don't need to push down the grief and the sadness and the things you actually just have to find the right person who can be there to support you through it. They're not going to solve it for you or fix it for you." Yeah. And you are worthy of finding your constant. Yeah. And that person that's going to be there for you, which you have found, which is so beautiful. And to everyone watching, if you haven't found that yet, it is coming. And don't shrink yourself or believe that you're too damaged or too fucked up, that you can't find it. It's just, it really is about finding the right person that can, you can merge your life with, that can handle that with you. Yes. Yeah. I completely agree. I also think like some of my previous relationships were just bad matches. Some of them were trauma bonds and me choosing to like continue on that path and not seeing all the red flags. And they were truly terrible. And so like I was looking at that as a sort of a proof that I was broken, right? Whereas, and like I cannot choose love, I cannot, I cannot, I'm not worthy of a real love. And I am always going to pick someone who's going to harm me, right? That was my narrative. And I know that's a lot of young women's narrative, women's narratives, you know, people's narratives is that like I am too broken to not only be loved, but then accept it. And so my choices for partner are always going to be people that sort of mimic where I come from. And I won't know how to ascertain that that's what's happening until it's too late. That was what I had thought. And then I spent some time alone. And I was finally ready to date someone. And when I say some time, it was like two years. Like I spent like two and a half years being not only not dating or seeing anyone, but like really working through my shit so that I felt okay being alone so that I felt like I actually don't need a partner. So it can fall into that old sort of like just when you stop looking, it comes, you know, and it is true. And it is true. But I think part of that rather than like it is energetic for sure, because you're like, I am fulfilled. And so someone's like, ah, I feel it feels like it's like it's a it's a vibration that attracts, but it is also a bit scientific. Like it's it's a bit more not scientific logical because it's like I am not trying to take from you. I'm not trying to make you into a shape that you're not. I am simply here. And if it works, it works. And what's more attractive than that, you know, thing for me too. I also feel like let's talk about your new show because there's like weirdly some themes that we've like discussed that you can like kind of tie to the show. And there's there's a lot. Yeah. So 56 days, you take it away and tell the people, give us a little just like what this is about. So 56 days, which no one realizes is the title because they keep saying they keep thinking we're saying it comes out in 56 days. It's called 56 days. And it is based on the novel by the same name. It's a I guess I would call it like a like a pseudo sexual thriller. It is a love story. Starts out as a love story. Yeah, I was going to say it starts out as a love story. It's a very like meat cute like, you know, boy meat girl in the grocery store. And it's like, you go first, no, you go first. Let's go for coffee. They've this very sort of innocent chemistry. They have this nice walk. And it's like, oh, I do this. I do this. Like, do you want to go for a date? Okay. Very charming. And then somehow between that day and 56 days later, one of them ends up dead in a bathtub melted by acid. Crashful. So the whole yeah. As it does. As it happens. Obviously. As all the best love stories, too. So basically the show takes takes place over eight episodes. And it is working in it's a dual timeline. So our storyline is progressing towards day 56. And the police who are trying to solve the case are solving it all over the course of I think like one or two days. And they are retroactively solving the case. So they're going, we're going like this as their we're meeting them one. It's so fun. And I also know you were I think you kind of talked about how you were torn like there's nudity in this. Yeah. How did you decide you were comfortable? You know, it was funny. It's it's something that I was always aware that I was probably going to inevitably do. I don't know why I always felt that way. It wasn't like an aspiration. It was just like I grew up watching these incredible actresses do nudity. And I remember being like, wow, that's so brave and cool. Like that's got to be so you have to be so courageous to do that. And I know somebody in the comments is going to be like courageous. And it's like, yeah, courageous. It's so vulnerable. Like I don't think I don't think people really realize how vulnerable it is to be fully naked period on camera. But then fully naked simulating sex on camera in a room full of people. Like it is harrowing. And for you rewind to what you said earlier, the first bikini photo you posted online, people were like, yeah, no, I thought this is crazy. So it's like this to see yes as a woman to do this. It is I agree, courageous on top of that. Having the Disney background, having people be familiar with you in one light to then, you know, grow up essentially and try something more adult. Like it is it's a kind of a crazy move. Yeah. But I think I mean, if it felt right, then that's all that matters for you, right? I was like, so down for it. I was like, I don't really have any hangups about my body or sexuality. Like I've never found nudity to be offensive or even objectifying. Like I think that when people say that nudity is lured or crass or sinful or objectify, it's like I do find there's a fuck ton of internalized misogyny in that. Yes. I don't care. Like I truly don't care. No, I don't care. Like I see a naked woman and I'm like, wow, what a beautiful naked woman. What a piece of art. I'm not like she's cheap and or so or I'm not like, oh my God. And it's like all of these reactions are so for me, the reactions are actually the objectifying part. Right. It's not it's not the actual act because naked bodies are an innocent thing. You are naked. You are naked under that. Right. And you are making it weird. You are making it weird. Exactly. What I will say about our show that I'm really proud of and happy with is that the sex scenes actually serve, they're much more tame, I think, than than what I'm making them out to be. But they serve as a storytelling device because the sex scenes that are in the first couple episodes are not the same tone as the ones who are in the ones that are in the following episodes. And it's like you watch their dynamic shift and change in this very sort of intimate, vulnerable way that is more storytelling than a lot of other devices. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For our show, the Daddy Gang will love this. And I think also the deception as a viewer, it's like so fun to be like, I don't know what's happening right now. And the world that was created is so interesting. And so I'm very excited for everyone to watch it. And also support you. I think I'm sure after this interview, everyone that follows the show is going to fall even more in love with you, whether they were a big fan or they're becoming an even bigger fan today. I think it's really just exciting to hear where you've come from that young little girl wanting to get into Hollywood, dealing with so much, getting into Hollywood, maybe starting on one path and then completely rebranding and getting to grow into another version of yourself that is different to the world and reintroducing that part of yourself to the world while also dealing with all of the shit that you had to deal with as a kid that then you have to conquer as an adult and then meeting the love of your life and finding your partner and finding your constant and and having just so many moments of human experiences that I think is really beautiful. And then now to see you as an actress obviously and you taking on this role, it's um it's really really cool to have gotten to know you today because I feel like I got to I hope it wasn't too all over the place, but I felt like in a good way we were bouncing all around and and learning about you as a human being, not just a dove camera and the person that we have seen for so many years online and on TV and it was beyond a pleasure and I know we went deep and I know we both didn't want to cry but we did and I can't thank you enough for going there. Oh dude I'm so pleased I'm obsessed with you you're the second love of my life yeah my best friends out. We're doing - I'm done. - Fuck you. (laughing) 15 years of friendship. Over just like that. No. - That was really cool. - No, you're so lovely. You're so smart. I'm really honored. I'm also very impressed by you. I'm not just saying that because you're right here. But I don't know. You have such a lovely energy. You're clearly so kind. You're so invested. And you must spend so much time delving into other people's psyches. And not only are you so good at it, but you have this well of effervescent energy for it, which is really generous. And I don't know. I was really pleased. I think you're wonderful. - Thank you. And I am so excited to continue to follow your career and watch what you continue to do. And on a personal level, I can't wait to see if there's a wedding, whatever you share. I will be following. - Engage forever. - No wedding. - Perfect dog. - Thank you, Dev Cameron, for coming out, Color Daddy. - Thank you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)