Don’t Trust Your “Feminine Intuition” | Wife School #3 Alisa Childers

For young people out there, if you want to find meaning, find something worth taking responsibility for. Look, from a biblical standpoint, I think marriage is one of the most awesome things that God has given us. And I don't think we do a good enough job of celebrating marriage in our society. I don't think we lift it up as this beautiful ideal. Here's a good rule for life. The hard things are the beautiful things. Things that require work are going to nourish your soul. I love you so much. I love you. You're my best friend. Welcome to The Charlie Kirk Show. Thanks, babe. I'm very proud of my husband. You have worked so hard. And I know a lot of you have seen, obviously, his videos on TikTok and all the stuff he does on campus. But no one gets to see him from my angle except for myself and our children. And the sacrifices that he made this year, he's amazing. I'm very blessed. And I would not have been able to do any of it without Erica. And that's the real truth. I'll tell you what. Becoming a father has radicalized me in the best way possible, by the way. And it's made me, first of all, understand that what I'm fighting for is beyond even yourself. It's a source of immense joy and meaning and beauty. And it's also a source of motivation and purpose. I encourage more young people to get married and have kids and reject hookup culture. You'll be happier because of it. I'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. And today we're going somewhere a little bit uncomfortable, but I think needed. And I felt like this was the perfect episode to do for the one-year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's death, my boss, for seven years. We're talking about the line between biblical discernment and conspiracy obsession. When does asking hard questions become an endless search for secret knowledge that the Bible explicitly warns against? And what happens when the content that we consume starts changing our peace, our marriages, and even our faith? My guest is Elisa Childers, author, Christian apologist, former member of Zoe Girl, and host of the Elisa Childers podcast. She has publicly pushed back on Candace Owen's investigation into Charlie's death, so it's about to get spicy. Watch on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or Spotify. Please welcome Elisa Childers to Culture Apothecary. This episode comes out on the anniversary of Charlie's death. What do you want Christians to remember about Charlie? What do you want Christians to remember about Charlie that's really gotten lost in all of the mess that has happened in the years since? Well, my story with discovering Charlie's work was really after his death. So before Charlie's horrible assassination, I was aware of him, but it was just kind of a different world. I was in the apologetics world. He was kind of more in the political, theological space. So I hadn't seen many of his, you know, stand in whatever they call those things at the college campuses where he would be on the mic. Yeah, like prove me wrong. Yeah, prove me wrong. That's it, yeah. And all that. I hadn't seen him. Exactly. I hadn't seen a lot of that. And so, of course, after his death, all of those clips are going viral. And I was so impressed. And I was just like, man, here we are in our apologetics world trying to reach culture. But here's this guy going right into the belly of the beast, the college campus, and doing such a phenomenal job, better than most apologists I know, answering all of the claims and the things that are really on people's minds, especially at that age. And I was just so impressed. And then seeing just this revival that seemed to be breaking. I had people contact me from girls I went to high school with who were saying, hey, I'm really inspired to follow Jesus now. Do you know, like, what Bible I should get? And they were asking questions like that. And so I've been very inspired by that. And it's been sad for me to see that kind of get hijacked into this other thing. But I just remember how incredibly smart, articulate, knowledgeable Charlie was, where he could just pull that information right up, but also so compassionate and loving to the people. That he was talking to such patience that I don't know if I would have, you know, with some of the hostility that he was encountering. I'm so excited to have you on the show. I've wanted to have you on for years. And I just had this vision. I wanted this podcast to obviously pay tribute to Charlie and his legacy on this anniversary. I also really wanted to kind of dive into this. I think it's a it's a weird mind virus that has. Captured a lot of women and especially housewives in America since his murder. I think a lot of people have fallen into this and they really they really do believe that they're seeking justice. And I think it's misguided just how how things have happened. But but before we get into that, this all ties together, I promise. I wanted to tell you, you did an episode on your podcast at the time we're filming this a few days ago about forgiveness. And that episode has changed my life. I it has been so hard for me in the last year. Just thinking about like, how can I ever forgive someone like Candace Owens for what she has done to me personally, to everybody that I love? Obviously, Erica, Charlie's family, you know, everyone at Turning Point and all of the people that are that are in, you know, her her whole this. This is an entire like, I don't know. We're organized content manufacturing game of all these different creators on YouTube or whatever. And I've just struggled so much with how to grapple with that. And I've talked to Vance, my fiance, about that. And I'm just like, I don't understand. Like, you know, I'm watching Erica get up on stage and forgive Tyler. And I'm like, I could I couldn't even forgive Candace. You know, I couldn't. And so I've just really had a hard time struggling with that. And just the Christianity or the Christian view, what should be the biblical view of forgiveness? And you did this episode where you have this woman on and you can talk about this, where she is saying maybe we've kind of gotten wrong. What forgiveness as a Christian is supposed to look like or what's supposed to happen before you are required as a Christian to forgive someone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, her name's TC Cannon and her book is called Counterfeit Forgiveness. And it's coming out, I think, next week. So it'll be out. Well, actually, by the time this comes out, it'll already be out. And ultimately, what she has done is it's not something she's made up. It's not something. She's, you know, come up with. It's something she's rediscovered because ultimately the view of forgiveness that so many of us were taught in the church is something she calls the therapeutic view of forgiveness, where it's just this one sided thing that if somebody does something to you, you just have to forgive them. And it doesn't require them to be repentant or anything like that. And that's really called the therapeutic view, because it's really just you're forgiving someone so that you feel better. You're you're forgiving them and releasing them so that you can find healing. And that really arose into the church through the whole self-help culture. So that's something that's more of a modern view of forgiveness. But if you go back to the original view, the biblical view, is that forgiveness, just by definition, is a very specific solution to a very specific problem. And that's when there has been wrong done between two people. And I'm not going to articulate it as well as her, because obviously she's done the deep dive on all of this. But my best understanding of it is that a lot. Some people misunderstand what she's saying because they think, oh, if you say you don't you, you don't have to forgive somebody if they're not repentant. Well, then you can hold bitterness. And but Jesus said, pray for those who persecute you and bless those who curse you. And what she's saying is you don't have a pass as a Christian ever to hold bitterness against someone. Yes, we need to pray for those who persecute us. Bless those who curse us. Be willing to forgive anybody who has wronged us. But forgiveness itself, by biblical definition, requires the repentance of the other. The person that's the part and you give them when they repent. And that's how Jesus forgives. And this is actually really tied to the gospel, because if we the Bible says to forgive as Christ forgave, but Christ doesn't forgive everyone. He forgives those who repent and turn and trust in him by faith. And so we forgiveness is just by definition works that way. It's not just this kind of therapeutic thing you do for your own freedom. There are other biblical things you do for your own healing and that sort of thing. But forgiveness is something. That you can't actually offer somebody if they haven't repented. Yeah. And so and I know I'm not negating Erica forgiving Tyler. No, of course. You know, I believe that she meant that and she wanted to let that go and basically just give it to God to handle and let justice be served. It was a beautiful thing that she did. So but what I think is helpful and why so many people were impacted by that episode you did and by and by that woman's book and everything is is talking about how for some people that have gone through this. Immense hardship or abuse or or or severe circumstances, they're like how how can I forgive my abuser right which I'm for which I believe I believe Candace Owens is an abuser. Yeah, absolutely of turning what you say and multiple others but and so a lot of people feel like how can I get there and and basically there's just a lot of freedom in that it's like, you know, God's not requiring you as a believer that you have to forgive them if they haven't repented, but you would be in sin if they are showing. true repentance and then you refuse to forgive. That's correct. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, just beautiful. And that's a whole episode. You have to go to Elisa's podcast and listen to that. You have publicly pushed back on Candace Owens. Yeah. What is it about the way that she investigates Charlie's death that has concerned you? Well, number one, she's she's not providing evidence for her main claims. And what I've really seen with what she's doing is abuse is the right word. I mean, if you think about if she's wrong, which she is wrong because she doesn't have evidence for her claims, but let's even just say hypothetically, you know, if she's wrong, then the outcome is she she is dragging Erica through the mud. She's dragging my friend Frank Turk through the mud. Real people who love the Lord. Who? Who are being slandered and gossiped about. And ultimately at the bottom of this is gossip. And it's just been extremely aggravating. It's been really just kind of perplexing to me to see how many people in the name of truth follow her. So, you know, back when I was I had a faith crisis a lot of years ago because somebody had introduced information that intellectually persuaded me that Christianity wasn't true. This caused a crisis. And so I had to investigate for myself what is the truth. And I was seeking truth. But back then, those people were saying, well, maybe truth doesn't exist. You know, maybe truth is just, you know, what's true for you is true for you. And it can be something different for me. Maybe truth isn't absolute. But what's weird about what's happening with Candace is that a lot of people are doing this in the name of truth. They actually believe that they are seeking truth. And that's because there is a lot of manipulative tactics that are being used to make it seem like it's true. It doesn't seem like she's bringing receipts for what she's saying. And that's like a mixture of some truth. So, you know, she might make a claim that's unrelated to her central claim and she might have proof for that one. But even if she proves that true, that doesn't make the central claim true. And I think that ultimately a lot of Christian and particularly Christian women have not been taught to think critically, to actually say, OK, what is a truth claim? How do I investigate if this true claim is actually true? What's the evidence that demonstrates the truth? Truthfulness of this. So I don't know if you caught the debate between Candace Owens and Andrew Wilson, but I couldn't watch a lot of it because it was so frustrating because at one frustrating on both sides, both sides. Yes, I agree. I keep both of them away from me at all costs. I know. That's why I couldn't watch much of it. It was very frustrating. But at one point he did say to her, you know, what is the positive evidence for the claims that you're making? And she ultimately punted to I'm allowed to think I'm allowed to think she's an ex-wife. I can think what I want. And I'm thinking, how is this? How is anybody watching this and thinking that that is an adequate response to what is actually being asked? I laughed at that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very frustrating to me to see this happen because I'm seeing a lot of Christian, you know, my motivation is always gospel purity. I want to maintain the purity of the gospel. And when you see women go down this trail of slander and gossip and their entire focus of their lives seem to be oriented around this conspiracy. First of all, that's just not godly. That is not what God has called us to do and to be as Christian women. Why is it important in the realm of wife school and what it means to be a biblical wife to understand the warnings of this constant seeking of of knowledge and conspiratorial mindsets? Well, I think the conspiratorial mindset is rooted in deception. We know that Satan is the father of lies, a murderer from the beginning. And what I've noticed just over the course of time that I've been in a space where I'm trying to practice discernment, if you see through one deception, our enemy is like, great, I got another one for you. And then if you see through that, perfect, got one over here. So it just seems like all of these things are popping up everywhere. And if he can just get your eyes off Jesus and off of biblical authority, if he can get you out of your Bible and into some rabbit hole of conspiracy, he's perfectly happy to do that. If you reject progressivism, he's perfectly happy to have you go down the Candace rabbit hole. As long as you are distracted from your purpose, distracted from engaging with scripture to get to know God and living as a godly wife and a mother in my case and grandmother in my case, if he can just get us distracted off of that, I mean, job done. He's a deceiver. He's a manipulator. And so I think that's one of the things that I've noticed is that we're not able to think critically or clearly. I haven't been taught logic. It's not just I mean, we need those things. We need knowledge. My people perish for lack of knowledge, the Bible says. But I believe that deception at its core is moral. It's a moral decision. And I would start in Romans one when the Apostle Paul says the wrath of God is revealed against men, but not because they had access to knowledge of God, but but it says in Romans one that every person who's ever been born actually clearly perceives that God exists and knows certain things about his divine nature and attributes just by looking around like in the things that are made, it says in Romans one. So when they suppress that truth, it says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. It's not just because they aren't intellectually convinced that this is true or that's true. Men suppress the truth in unrighteousness. And so when we commit the sin of unbelief, I don't think doubt is necessarily a sin. If you're doubting honestly and you're seeking truth, the opposite of faith is not doubt. It's unbelief, according to Romans one. But the Bible says they're without excuse. And then there's another passage in I believe it's first John that says the light came, but men didn't love the light because their deeds were evil. They love the darkness because their deeds are evil. Jesus said the world will hate you. Why did the world hate Jesus? Because he convicted the world of their sin. These are moral categories. The Bible says test the spirit. The spirit is a spirit of truth and a spirit of error. The way the Bible talks about deception is in clearly spiritual and moral categories. So I'm totally convinced that any level of deception is it's a spiritual battle. And the primary way that the Bible talks about spiritual warfare is speaking truth into lies. And that's how we battle. We speak truth into lies. Her followers would say, well, she's doing what journalists are supposed to do. She's asking the questions that everybody else is too scared to ask. What is wrong with that? Well, the whole just asking questions thing, I think, is a manipulative tactic. Of course, there's nothing wrong with asking an honest question. But where I think the manipulation and the deception comes in is you can actually make a statement that is veiled as a question. You can make an accusation that's veiled as a question. If I say to you, Alex, Alex, you know, why are you cheating on your fiance? Well, I'm just asking questions, right? Well, no, of course, I've just made an accusation within the question. But then when people who haven't maybe been taught to think critically, they say, well, she was just asking a question. What's wrong with asking questions? Are you trying to suppress questions? Well, there's nothing wrong with asking an honest question. But there are honest questions and there are dishonest questions. There are questions seeking answers and there are questions seeking exits or specific conclusions. And I think that's what we see with Candace is she's a question, but she's really making an accusation and making it quite boldly. What do you make of, you know, they'll say, well, Charlie even said you don't stop asking questions. Yeah, again, it's manipulation. Do you do you think for a second that Charlie wanted somebody to have a podcast with millions of people watching that basically implicates his wife and his murder? Is that what he meant? I mean, like, I want to just ask somebody who would say that. Ask yourself, honestly, is that what you think Charlie meant? And of course, that's not what he wanted, because there are questions that are accusations. And that's what I think we're seeing happen. Christianity tells us to seek truth. The Bereans checked what they were being taught. We're told to test everything. So when can wanting more information actually become spiritually dangerous? I mean, the Bible speaks very highly of gaining knowledge. That is definitely something we as Christians are supposed to do. We're supposed to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus. But I would say maybe at the most top level is any, anything, whether it can be baking, it can be gardening, it can be anything. If anything gets placed higher than Christ in your life as a Christian woman, then that thing has become an idol. And so even apart from deception, this thing has so clearly become an idol in a lot of people's hearts that it's almost like it's been placed above growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus. So there's nothing wrong with wanting information. But again, it's all about the way you're seeking that information. I wrote a book about deconstruction, because what we so often see in the deconstruction movement is that it's not just that people are seeking knowledge. There's a shift of authority that happens in the deconstruction movement from a worldview that's rooted in the church. in the authority of the Bible and really in the authority of absolute truth that's outside of you, because that's how truth works. Truth is outside of you. It's not something you make up. It's something you discover. Truth is true for everybody of all times in all places. Truth is true whether the person says it nicely or says it in a way that's mean. And so if your questions are seeking that, then I think that's a good pursuit. The Bible says, have mercy on those who doubt. There's a lot of indication in Scripture that we should always be pursuing truth. And like you said, the Bereans were praised for saying, hang on a second, Paul. I want to make sure that what you're saying lines up with the Scriptures. And they were praised for that. So that's a different thing than pursuing maybe knowledge of something that's unholy. And I think what we're seeing happen too is it's magnifying this idol. And it's hard to come up with words, to describe how ungodly this is, because I don't think we have any precedent in history. We don't. To see, I mean, people have done things that are this evil, but they have never until now had the megaphone that is social media and the internet to mobilize such a massive amount of people around a particular deception. And in the meantime, like what they're putting Erica through and others at TPUSA and other people that are adjacent to it is, it's just so unbelievably ungodly to put Christian people through this, especially without evidence. I mean, if there was like stone cold smoking gun evidence, that's something, yeah, we'd want that pursued, of course. But when there's not, and you're literally turning the world against a godly person for no good reason, I mean, that is evil. That's wicked. Scary stuff. Worried for her soul. For my entire life, I thought, toothpaste had to foam or my teeth weren't getting clean. If I wasn't standing over the sink looking like I contracted rabies, I thought, well, obviously this isn't working. 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All of this is available in their three memberships you can choose from, including 40% off supplements and premium prescriptions. Use code Alex at GoJevity.com to get 20% off. That's code Alex, GoJevity.com. I posted about this, you know, when the Bible warns Christians against seeking secret knowledge or hidden knowledge, becoming obsessed with that. And a lot of believers, you know, genuinely were like, I've never heard this before. What is this? What is secret or hidden knowledge that the Bible talks about? Yeah. So, what I think you're referencing is one of the earliest heresies in the Christian church called Gnosticism. Gnosticism was popping up around the time, or at least a prototype of Gnosticism was popping up right around the time that the New Testament was being written, kind of toward the end of that. So, you see kind of hints of that in 1 John and in other epistles that were written a little bit later. And really what this heresy was, it was people who were saying, hey, we're Christians. This wasn't atheists from the outside. This was people who looked like Christians, talked like Christians, believed they were Christians, that were teaching that. Now, I want to be careful how I say this because Gnostics had different sects and there were different beliefs within the different sects. But the one thing that they kind of all had in common was this idea. That it's not the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and trusting in faith that saves you. It's actually secret knowledge. So, you have these Gnostic gospels, like the Gospel of Thomas, that has these secret sayings of Jesus. And of course, they're not authentic. Some of them are even copied from New Testament. So, there's a few in there that you might recognize, but there's some really weird stuff in the Gospel of Thomas. But ultimately, the idea was, yeah, all these other people, they don't have knowledge. And what saves you is for you to know that you're not a Christian. So, you have to have this revelation of this secret knowledge. And so, this is what I think deconstruction is all about. It's basically waking up one day and saying, hey, this Christianity that I was taught, yeah, they just didn't know. The church has gotten it wrong for 2,000 years. We now have this knowledge. And you see the same thing with the Candace phenomenon. It's like the entire worldview gets flipped. Like everything you thought you knew, that's all false. And there's this secret knowledge. And once you know this, then you will know the true nature of reality. It's what will enlighten you. That's what will save you. So, that's what the Gnostics were really all about. So, you see some of the apostles even addressing some Gnostic claims within the New Testament. And that was a massive heresy. I mean, Irenaeus, a book that I wish every Christian would read is called Against Heresies. And it's fascinating because he's just writing this whole treatise against this sect of Gnostics. And it's super weird, all the things that they believed about the nature of God and reality. But Christians were falling for this. And when I say that, I'm just reminded of why, as Christian women, we have to have the Bible as our authority. Because look at Galatians. Paul is saying, guys, let's get back to basics here. If anyone preaches to you a different gospel, even if it's me, even if it's an angel from heaven, let them be accursed. And in that context, that literally meant, let them be damned to hell. Let me be damned to hell. If I teach you a different gospel, then you being saved by faith. And every false gospel bottoms out into a gospel of works. You had the circumcision party saying, oh, you got to be Jewish before you can be Christian. And you have to be circumcised. And Paul was saying, no, we are saved by grace through faith. And all of this stuff, including Gnosticism, it just all ends up as something other than grace by faith. Yeah. I feel like this conspiracy culture basically can become this, like Christian flavored Gnosticism where like certain people, they, you know, certain people are like, you know, I possess the special knowledge that, you know, everybody else is just too blind to see. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what it is. And so when you have somebody like Candace come along, who is very talented in front of the camera, thinks on her feet, she's seems to be extremely knowledgeable in how to manipulate people and kind of this us versus them. And she's basically teaching Gnosticism when she's saying things like, well, we, we know, you know, we know, we just know that sort of stuff, the vibes, the feelings, even bringing that into a debate, which is just mind blowing to me that you could get through a whole debate with vibes and feelings and even be shown where you've contradicted yourself and just get through it somehow. I mean, that's a special kind of talent. I mean, that's, that's no, no, like Jim Jones is like, teach me your ways. You know what I mean? Exactly. No, for real. Absolutely. And I truly believe that it's 100 percent a cult in the sense that it's personality, driven. It's getting people away from the gospel. It's actually promoting, in my view, great evil because of the slander and the gossip and what that's doing. Marriages, marriages are being destroyed. Yeah. I've had people tell me I've had texts from people saying, hey, I don't quite know what to do because my wife is just eating this up and it's affecting their marriage. It's affecting her mothering. It's, it's affecting all of these things. And I know Frank Turk, when I talked to him on my podcast, He had somebody reach out to him with a similar sentiment. I can't believe we're the only two. Like, this is definitely something that's affecting people's lives. Deuteronomy 29, 29 says, the secret things belong to the Lord. What does that actually mean, especially in an age where the internet tells us, you know, every secret thing can be uncovered. We just have to keep digging. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So I would say, you know, I know I always just keep bringing it back to biblical authority. But the one thing that I think we need to just remind ourselves of constantly is that although the Bible doesn't give us exhaustive knowledge of everything in the world, it doesn't solve E equals MC squared. It doesn't, you know, give us a recipe for sourdough. Actually, it does give us a recipe for bread. So I'll get off that one. But it doesn't, you know, it doesn't give us everything we need to know for every, it doesn't give you golf tips, right? But everything that we need to know about God and living for him in this world is in there. There is nothing that a Christian can face that there's not at least a biblical principle to apply to it. With that said, God hasn't revealed everything about himself to us. He has revealed to us what he wants us to know about him. That's what his word is, is his revelation to us. The Bible is not a human book about God. The Bible is a book that God wrote through humans, certainly inspired by God, inerrant, but it's authoritative because it's his revelation of himself. It's about him. It's not about you. It's not about me. We get to know God by reading. And so what he hasn't revealed in his word about himself is going to be pure speculation. So a Christian can, you know, go the rest of their lives trying to figure something out about God that the Bible doesn't reveal. And there's also the book of nature. He reveals things in nature. But if it's not revealed, then let it go because you're not going to know. It's just going to be speculation. And that can be a massive distraction. Does conspiracy culture offer something that Christianity never promised us, which is the idea that if we investigate hard enough, eventually everything will make sense? Oh, that's an interesting perspective because it almost gives you like a sense of control, doesn't it? Yes. I remember. So back, I don't even know how long ago this was, but you remember the Sandy Hook shooting that happened. I remember this was even before my faith crisis, before I started studying critical thinking or apologetics, but I was a truth seeker and I believed in absolute truth and I loved the Lord. But I remember when that happened, just some things weren't adding up. I was like, wait, this doesn't make sense. This person's acting kind of weird. That gives me a bad vibe about that person and what they're saying. It makes me not believe them. The Sandy Hook story is the only thing in modern history that is even slightly comparable to what's happening with Candace and Turning Point because you've got one commentator that is, you know, putting out into the ether via online these conspiracy theories that really, really harmed people. Right, exactly. And so I. And I didn't even see any of that. So for me, it was just like, what is happening? But I remember thinking, I don't think, I kind of bought it. I bought the conspiracy and this was a long time ago. But because I love the Lord, because I'm a Christian, I thought, well, if this is, if this did happen, the cost of me being wrong is too great for me to say anything because this would be so harmful to people, like if they really did lose children. And so, of course, now learning to think critically, I look back and I'm horrified, I'm embarrassed that I fell for that. But I can see, I guess I say that to say, I can see how somebody from even a good heart could fall for some of this because they do want truth and they do feel like they've been lied to through COVID. And, you know, there are real conspiracies that can happen. And so it can be difficult to discern. But what is shocking to me is how brazenly and how boldly people will say, oh, yeah, Erica Kirk this or, you know, this or that. And it's just like, I mean, these are people's lives. And that was the one thing that held me back even back then. Even though I kind of believed it from saying anything, because I wouldn't want to risk harming somebody who had actually been through that by adding to their pain. And so that's what's so perplexing to me to see with this is how brazen and bold. I mean, you would not believe. I mean, well, you would believe because you get them the comments that come in from people every time I talk about Candace. It's not just like people saying, hey, sister, I really think you're wrong about this. You investigate a little further. No, it's actually there. To the 10th degree. Yeah, they're positive you're being paid by Israel. They're positive that you're this wicked person that's filled with demons. I mean, these are the kind of comments. Well, and you look at the fruit of it, right? The fruit of it, what it produces in people is an abusive spirit. It produces just a gossipy mindset. You know, the Bible talks about gossip like tasty morsels that you just, you know, they go down so good. And it's like people are just on the hook to learn the next thing. And I've shared this on my podcast, but I watched Candace's entire series on Brigitte McCrone just to kind of be like, what is this all about? Like, why are people into this? And it was really fascinating because I got to the end of that. And I remember thinking, all she's done is give a plausible path that if Brigitte McCrone really is a man, here's how it could have happened. But that's not positive evidence. And I actually shared this with a friend, and maybe this will help somebody out there who might be confused. Confused by some of the things they see with Candace. I had a friend who was like, yeah, I don't know. I think Candace makes a lot of sense. And this person wasn't, you know, really hostile. So we were able to talk about it. And I said, OK, so let's say that all she's able to do is make a plausible case, right? Anything's plausible. It's plausible that anybody that, you know, I was involved, anything's plausible. But it doesn't mean that there's evidence for that. So I said, imagine that, you know, we were at a restaurant. So I said, imagine that there was a crime committed. At this restaurant about the same time that you and I were here. We were in Texas, right? And I was actually scheduled to go on Allie Beth's show the next day, but that she canceled because she was sick. So I ended up just going home early. I'm like, now imagine there's a crime that's committed in the parking lot of this restaurant. Let's say the crime happens at the same moment I get up to go to the bathroom. Well, now let's say there's somebody like Candace that gets a hold of this and says, hey, guys, something weird about this. There was a crime committed. Lisa was at the restaurant. And you know what? The moment the crime was committed, she went up to go to the bathroom. She said she was here to be on Allie Beth's show, but that never happened. So who's lying? Somebody's lying. Yeah. That's exactly how that could happen. I said, but you and I would both know I didn't commit the crime. And there's no evidence to say that I did commit the crime. There's just a plausible path that if I did commit the crime, it could have happened when I said I went to the bathroom and maybe I lied about coming here. But the point is, is that none of that is true. And that's what Candace is so good at. It's a plausible case. And that's exactly what she did with Brigitte McCrone. There was no hard evidence to it. It was just like, oh, she knows this person. And here's a photo. This will all come out once that all goes to trial or whatever. But she was sent. She was sent evidence proving that Brigitte is a woman or whatever. And she ignored it and kept making episodes. So we'll see how that plays out. But is it fair to categorize believing that everyone else is asleep, but I really see what is happening as a pride issue, a sinful pride? I mean, yeah, God knows every heart, right? And I think there's probably a mix. I think there's some people that get sucked into it because they are confused. And maybe they also felt like something was weird. And then you have somebody who gives language to what you thought was weird. And maybe they're genuinely trying to figure it out. It seems difficult to accept that at this point, though, they would still be following after seeing the really clearly rotten fruit of the whole thing. So, you know, I want to make space for somebody like that. But I think generally what we do see is a great sense of pride. And I think even thinking back to the Sandy Hook thing, I think, you know, in that case, it was like I didn't I wanted to be humble enough to say, what if I am wrong? And that's what you don't see. And that's where I think you do see pride is because you don't see people in our comments saying, you know, I could be wrong, but she makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's a few people like that. But for the most part, it's just very bold accusations. It's as if they know what you've done, what I've done, what anybody's done. But again, just based on some kind of a feeling. And that's the danger of living in a post-truth world. Like we went from being in a world where you're arguing, does truth exist? Is there objective truth? Is truth absolute? What's the nature of truth? What's the definition? We went from that to it's true because I think it. And that is really scary because the Bible talks about deception growing and great delusion. There's no difference. There's no difference in that verbiage, that mindset when it comes to this issue. Just as you know, they said the same thing with trans kids and stuff. This four year old believes that she is a boy. Therefore, it's true. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, that's because our culture has shifted again, truth from something that's objective and outside of you to something that is within you. That is absolutely our culture right now. There were some studies done on Gen Z and the dominant. Worldview among Gen Z right now is what's called moral relativism. So relativism is a, I believe, false definition of truth that says truth is relative to each person, depending on their historical context, maybe their biological sex, ethnicity, the culture they live in, the time period they lived in. Truth can be different for different people. And the reason that that is really bought into as well is because we're in a postmodern culture, which is a lot of things, but it's hallmarked by the idea that there is no grand meta narrative that explains reality. or if there is one, nobody could actually claim to know that. And so therefore, truth then is just something that's within you. So Alex, what's true for you is true for you, but don't put your truth on me. And what's true for me is true for me. So we're living in a world where we're not even discussing what does truth mean? What is truth? Truth is just for people. It doesn't matter. It's just what you feel. Yeah. And that's our true authentic self, too. We're told your true authentic self is what you feel you are. That's why they're telling kindergartners they have to choose their gender because they're saying, you know, your feelings are who you are, which is why as Christian women, it's so, I think, stabilizing to know that who we are is who we are in Christ. If you're in Christ, you're a child of God, and that doesn't change even when your circumstances do. But if I am who I what my feelings are, then my identity is going to change with my feelings. And I can tell you as a perimenopausal woman, I'm very grateful that that's not the case. I'm grateful that I'm not what I feel I am because that changes on. 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And when they ask where you heard about them, please mention Culture Apothecary. You brought up these verses in 2 Timothy, but I want to unpack them a little bit. 2 Timothy 3, 6 through 7, where Paul talks about the false teachers who are creeping into households, capturing weak women. By the way, I posted this verse and then I was like, you know, he's talking about women. They're more spiritually susceptible, blah, blah, blah. And people were like, well, how can you how can you say that? That's so unfair for you to put this on. Women or whatever. I'm like, this is he's he Paul said. Yeah, you didn't say it. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, take it up with God. Yeah. Please. Anyway. So when he talks about, you know, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth, always learning, never able to arrive at the knowledge of the truth. What's happening in that passage? Doesn't that describe it perfectly? What you see always learning, never arriving at a knowledge of the truth. And I think where we see that in our modern culture is this whole idea that. You know, you should have an open mind, you should always have an open mind and I get it too. Like we are living in a culture where there is so much information back when I was growing up. If you wanted to know what Catholics believed, you had to go ask your Catholic neighbor. You didn't just have access to all the Catholic apologists or, you know, just for any worldview, you didn't have access to all of that knowledge at your fingertips. So I'm sympathetic to this younger generation. They hear a claim. They're not going to be like, yeah, I believe that because my parents told me. They're like, well, I want to hear what that side says. And then that side. And then there's just this endless back and forth of claim, counterclaim, claim, counterclaim. So I'm sympathetic to the confusion that that can cause. But I also think it's okay and it's good and godly to, yes, open your mind. If I'm wrong about something, I want to investigate that and I want to come to the truth of whatever that is. But it's also okay to close your mind again on truth. Like it is good. It's not just okay, but it's actually good and godly to close your mind on the fact that two plus two equals four. We don't need to have a debate about two plus two equals four. And in the same way, and this is something I think about the way that our culture approaches religion, and even sadly, some of our Christian kids and young people and adults, too, with this moral relativism that we live in, is a lot of Christians think, well, yeah, two plus two equals four with math. But Christianity, you know, I mean, it's true for me, but I don't really want to tell someone else that it's true for them. But the problem with that is that Christianity is in the realm of two plus two equals four. It's either true or it isn't. And if Jesus' body came out of the grave, that means Christianity is true, which means it's true for everybody, which means it has eternal consequences for everybody, which is why this is a life and death thing. This is, it's okay to close your mind. It's good and godly to close your mind on Christianity being true, the Bible being God's word. And I'm not saying, you know, people have to get there differently. It takes people longer to get there. They might need more investigation than someone else. But when you get to the point where you're like, okay, I believe Jesus died on the cross, took my sins upon himself, rose again, ascended into heaven, promising to return to judge the living and the dead. He lived the perfectly sinless life that I could not live. I know that I'm a sinner. And I'm going to turn from my sin and trust in Christ. It's okay to close your mind on that. And because that's true. And so when you're in a postmodern culture that says, well, hey, it's arrogant to claim to know the explanation of all reality, that's a tough spot for a Christian because Christianity is the explanation of all reality. So we have a different problem than we had maybe when I was in high school. When I was in high school, if I was a Christian, my friends would have been like, okay, well, I disagree with you. I don't think Christianity is true. But today it's a much different thing. It's like if you claim to know that Christianity is true, you're seen as they don't even think you can know that. So they're not even debating whether or not that's true. They're debating why would you be saying something like that? Oh, you must be just trying to prop up your institution of power over me. And that's where we see so much of this oppressed versus oppressor thing happening is it's like, well, the church just is trying to indoctrinate you with fear by telling you you're a sinner. They're just trying to control you. And so the whole point of this kind of postmodern world is to break free of all of that authority and become your own authority. And truth then in that world is found within yourself. Why in that passage would Paul specifically call out women as being more susceptible to false teachers and that we should be very careful? Well, again, I can only speculate. He also said in one time he said the woman was deceived first, and I could speculate on this. He said that when you look at the way that God describes the complementarity between male and female, what you see emerge is that men are mostly protectors and providers and women are nurturers. This is where feminism has poisoned us so much, because if you look at the gifts God gave women, I think that now there's always exceptions, but for the most part, God has put in women this kind of emotional, I don't know if this is the right word, but intelligence, to be able to see, "What does my baby need right now? What does this person need?" So I think women are more focused on individuals to where you might meet the need of this one individual and that's a strength. That's something that's really beautiful, but that might, because we're more maybe naturally sympathetic to people, that might make us more vulnerable to deception in a certain area. Now, I think guys are vulnerable to deception in different areas, I think men are more focused on community. And this is why we work so well together. If chaos happens in culture, the woman, the perfect example, my stepdaughter and her husband, when COVID hit, the first thing she did is she went to Costco and bought a whole bunch of food. And he went to the gun store and bought a bunch of guns. But they didn't say, "Okay, you go to the gun store, I'll go to Costco." But that's where their minds were at. Her mind was on meeting the needs of my family with whatever's going to happen next. And he was like, "I need to protect my family with whatever's going to happen next." And I thought that was a beautiful example of the way we work. Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful example of the way that God has made us different. But because of those differences, we're vulnerable in different ways. And so when it comes to deception that might be within the context of a relationship, I do think that a case could be made that women are going to be more vulnerable to that because of our natural sympathy and our ability to kind of see what's wrong, what's going on with this person. We feel that more. Yeah. And so that we can actually send from that strength as well. Would this be the perfect storm for deception to take place? You think something is wrong. I'm afraid I desperately need an answer. And then you combine that with, you know, I don't actually know how to determine what's true. I think so. And I think, too, because women are, I think, more instinct driven. I will admit to you, I am instinct driven. I have to talk to myself sometimes and say, all right, I have a feeling about this, but I need to check that feeling. Doesn't mean my feeling is wrong. I might have a red flag about something long before my husband does, but that doesn't mean my red flag is true. It means I need to test that red flag. I don't ignore them, but I also can't. I don't use my feeling and my red flag as my source of truth. I have to prove or disprove my red flag. And so I think that women might be more vulnerable to something like this because they are relating on a feelings level. There's something where, you know, yeah, I had a weird feeling about that person, too. And now you have Candace come along and say, well, here's why you have that feeling. And we're not going to let anybody tell us that our feelings are wrong. And again, you combine that with a culture that's abandoned truth and moved it to the inside. It's the perfect storm for a woman to be able to say, well, my feelings are truth. If every single piece of evidence against my theory becomes evidence that the cover-up is even deeper, haven't I created a belief that can never be proven wrong? Absolutely. 100%. It's brilliant, actually. It's a brilliant scheme. I saw this hilarious tweet, and it was somebody said, like, a conspiracy theory dies and gets to heaven. And then God says, OK, you can ask me one question. And they say, who killed Trump? Charlie Kirk. And God says, Tyler Robinson. And then they go, man, this goes deeper than I even thought. That is perfect. That is perfect. I laughed so hard. That is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's puzzling to see how you could look at even just one fact being that Tyler Robinson's attorneys, their primary job is to, you know, defend him to ultimately, if possible, get him off or whatever. And they're not using any of the, quote, unquote, evidence. That's what I think is the biggest. If we want to talk about smoking guns or whatever, that's the biggest one. They would be using that if that were really, that's just not how evidence works. A lot of women will push back on everything you and I are saying. And they'll say, Alex, Elisa, you know what? I can follow these stories and I can still be a wonderful wife and a mom. I can still watch Candace every single day and I can still do an excellent job at being a wife and a mom. So when? When does curiosity cross the line into something spiritually unhealthy or even sinful? Well, I would say maybe let's even say theoretically you can. Let's say you can keep your faith intact. What example are you setting for your children as a mother by taking in this content every day? And why are you taking in the content? Because that's the other thing. Like I mentioned that verse, I think it's in Proverbs where it's like the secrets, the gossipy secrets that go down like tasty morsels. Your children are watching you partake in this every single day. What kind of example are you setting for them? Are they? And, you know, I mean, I say this to myself as well. We as Christian mothers need to be. It's not just what we tell our kids. It's how we live. There's also no way. There's no way. If I'm watching a show every day or every other day, however, whenever it's on, I don't know if you're watching that. You're not walking away from that thinking, like feeling like at peace, like to be able to go throughout the rest of your day. You are watching that. I mean, that's terrifying. If like everybody is lying and these people like killed Charlie Kirk and then they're just going about their life. That's scary, right? To think there's murderers on the loose. So I'm leaving that. I'm feeling anxiety. I'm feeling constant anger, discontentment, distrusting everyone around me. There's no way. There's no way that's not seeping into your marriage in your life. 100%. There's no way. And that's why we're getting texts from people saying this is affecting my marriage, because this isn't just like watching a, you know, a sitcom every night or something like that. You're right. Producing is the bad fruit of anxiety. It's producing the bad fruit of bullying and abuse. It's producing the bad fruit of gossip and slander. And how can you as a Christian woman be taking that in every single day for entertainment? Now, maybe somebody wants to watch to try to debunk it. And that's a different story. But taking it in as entertainment, being titillated by it, being seduced by it, that absolutely is affecting your disposition with your kids. It's affecting your ability to teach them to think critically. It's affecting your ability to disciple them well. And I know that might sound harsh. And that doesn't just apply to that. But if there's any like thing that you're taking in constantly, that is opposed to the character and nature of God, of course, that's going to affect you and how you are with your husband and how you are with your children. And I think at the best, at the most charitable thing I could say is that it's such a distraction from living a life of godliness, growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus. Like, just turn to God. And I think that's what we need to do. Turn it off. You don't have to watch it. You know, our kids are in the middle of a silent health crisis and nobody's really talking about it. What we've been told is normal for our children isn't. Faces are shrinking, jaws are narrowing, and it's causing a mouth breathing epidemic that is quietly stealing their health. Your kid is always sick, bad attitude, ADHD, bedwetting, poor sleep, snoring, all sorts of issues, chronic congestion, teeth grinding, crooked teeth, and more. If your child has even one of those signs I listed, it is a red flag. That is why airway dentist, Dr. Ben Miragula, Dr. Callie Hale, and Dr. Kevin Goels founded Toothpillow. It's a revolutionary virtual dental program that addresses the root causes of airway and developmental issues in kids. Toothpillow doesn't just manage symptoms, it actually helps fix the problems affecting your child's sleep, growth, and overall health. 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I'm talking about a normal Christian marriage where the man is pursuing Christ, and he's telling you that. I think it would be terrifying to disregard that. And I think that that could put you on a very bad trajectory. And you have to be careful, you know, your immediate response, too. If you're just trying to convince your husband, no, I'm right. Like, I'm on to something. Candice is on to something, whatever, you know, as opposed to listening to him, that you're not being enjoyable to be married to. You know, that's important to consider. Right, right. Because you want to be able to, of course, there have been times in my marriage where my husband will say something, and I'll say, you know, I don't agree with you. And here's why. Let me give you my reasons. And we'll talk through things. And he respects me. He respects my opinion. And there have been times when I've changed his mind. There have been a lot of times when he's changed my mind. But this is sort of a different category, because this would be an observation about how this is affecting you. And I think it's important to consider that. And I think it's important for you as a person. Just like if I went to my husband and said, hey, you are so distracted with this thing, and it's producing really bad fruit in your life. It's causing you to be short with the kids. It's causing you to neglect me emotionally. Like, please consider what you're doing. I would hope and pray that my husband would listen to me, too. And this is wife school. So what does chronic suspicion of everybody around you do to your ability to trust your husband and allow him to lead? Well, that is a really great observation. Yeah, because this whole kind of conspiracy culture does lead you to think that everybody, I mean, and that's really the thing, which is so crazy to me, is how everybody is under suspicion in this kind of worldview. It is a worldview. The worldview of conspiracy is like this whole worldview where you're like, nothing is as they say. Everybody's not who they say they are. So I can see easily how your question, where your question is coming from, could be very real very quick, because you would maybe look at your husband as, well, maybe he's a part of something, or maybe he's hiding something. And it just leads to so much bad fruit, and it takes your peace away. And I do want to acknowledge this, because this is probably the only fair argument I've heard from this camp, is, okay, well, some conspiracies have been proven true. The COVID vaccine, Jeffrey Epstein, these are things that people get so riled up about, and they're like, Charlie was really pushing for those things. He against those things. Obviously, Alex, you're on this show with Culture Apothecary. You're calling out corruption and stuff that's happened in pharma, in food, healthcare, like the insurance companies and that whole model of healthcare. So I do that. What is the difference between those things, or like questioning the COVID vaccine and stuff like that, and then what we've kind of seen the internet delve into, even in the Lindsay Clancy case, which is, now we have to jump to, well, maybe her husband actually killed their kids, and she was totally innocent, and this whole thing was orchestrated by the husband. It's just like, you know, is that just the price now we're paying as a society? Is that, sure. There were a couple conspiracies, if you really want to call them that, that with time came true. So therefore, like, you just can't trust anything. I don't know. I don't know what the balance is. So that's a great question. It's probably the key question, right? And I think that this is what has made a lot of people vulnerable, obviously, to what's happening now. But if you just kind of bring it down to brass tacks. Think about what happened in COVID. I remember when they were saying, you know, stand on, you know, six feet apart. And I remember thinking, like, just observation in the world would tell you that if I sneeze, like, it's going to hit the person six feet away from me. And, you know, maybe a mask will help. I, in the beginning, I was happy to put on a mask if that's what they thought would stop. And then, but once you start looking at the studies, and you're like, oh, wait, there's actually a study that shows that the cloth mask increases your, your chance because of the moisture in it. And so it's evidence. That's the answer to your question is we could, we could look at what was happening in COVID. And, you know, yeah, we can call it a conspiracy. Although I don't believe that necessarily there was like a group of people in a room like, ooh, let's, I mean, there kind of maybe was, but now that we're seeing some of that evidence come out. I think, yeah, I think what they're, it's power, money, and sex. That's what motivates people. Totally. And I think, you know, it wasn't a conspiracy. They call, they try to, you know, call us conspiracy theorists, people in the media, pharma, whatever. And I guess that's what they think like you and I are. You guys are just like CNN with your death counter. And you're saying you guys are conspiracy theorists who don't want to take the shot. You're just like them when it comes to Charlie Kirk. Well, and in my mind, so what was happening in COVID was not necessarily that it was like, oh, well, what if this isn't? What if this is something else? That's not what was going on. People were going, what you're telling me, this doesn't make logical sense. Um, also this shot has not really been tested enough. So I would like the opportunity to not have it. But so, so that's a different thing than saying, oh, they're saying that COVID has come out, but actually make it up all this stuff. A lot of the stuff that was being brought out has now been proven true with evidence. Yeah. And that's the point. Yeah. We're not, you know, there is a difference. I agree with you. There's a difference between that and then finding photos of some blonde kid, uh, in a preschool that's thrown up gang signs, whatever, being like, look, you know, on accident and then being like, Oh, Erica Kirk's in the Illuminati or whatever, what the heck she was saying. But you know, that wasn't even Erica. That was never covered. It wasn't even, that wasn't even Erica as a child. These photos that she's sharing me like, look, she's sharing Freemason hand signs or whatever in preschool. I mean, that's crazy stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, as far as conspiracy goes, I mean, our, our enemy, the devil, again, I mentioned father of lies murder from the beginning. He can, you don't have to have people in a room saying, Oh, let's do this or that. People are motivated by different things. If they're not in Christ, people are generally going to do what they do for money, which I think a lot of that's what was coming together in COVID power. That's what was coming and, and, or sex. Those are the three motivators that, um, people commit crimes. It motivates them to do all sorts of things. And so there doesn't have to be a room of, you know, people making a conspiracy, for a bunch of people to get together to do something evil. And so that's where we just have to ask good questions. Like what is the evidence that this particular, you know, shot is safe? What's the evidence that it's going to actually keep this disease from returning? Those are good questions to ask. And when somebody can't produce any evidence, but they just say, do it anyway, I think you're within your, you know, your rights to say, yeah, I don't think I'm going to do that. But that is different than saying, Hey, all of the evidence points here, but we actually think it's this because of vibes and feelings. It's like a totally different thing. In one aspect, you're asking for evidence. The other one, you're actually shunning the evidence in favor of your feelings. Let's say somebody listening has a sister that's totally down the rabbit hole. You know, every conversation becomes Charlie and turning point in Israel or whatever the latest theory is. What should you say to her? You know, I, I think a good question to ask somebody, if you're going to go, I think it's perfectly fine to say, look, can we not talk about this? I think, you know, especially to keep peace within your family. I think it's perfectly fine to draw a boundary with that and just say, look, I really don't want to talk about this with you. I think that's perfectly fine. But if you want to have the conversation, I think a good question to ask them is if Tyler Robinson really is the person who killed Charlie, would you believe it? Because this is a question that we do in apologetics where you have a hostile atheist that doesn't matter what evidence you give. They just, they turn and everything. You say, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? And that really gets to the core of where they're really coming from. So when they say no to that about being a Christian, what do you say? Then your problem is not intellectual. It's emotional. Okay. Yeah. So if you ask somebody, if Tyler Robinson really was the killer and Candace had been making all this up, would you believe that? And if they say, well, yes, then maybe there's a conversation that could be had where you bring evidence or the lack thereof. But if they say, well, no, there's probably nothing you can do to convince them. But at that point, you just release them to the Lord and pray for them because they're not interested in actually following the evidence. And that's, I think, what we see. I mean, you have all this evidence even, obviously, we haven't even seen all the evidence yet because we haven't had the trial yet. But even just in the pretrial, certain things are brought out. Like, does any of that even come into consideration for you? If this really were reality, would you believe it? I think that's a good question just to see where somebody's at. There seems to be a, a theological underpinning with all of this conspiracy stuff and Charlie Kirk and Israel and Catholics. Can you flesh out why certain theologies are afflicted with this, like, Israel derangement syndrome? Now, I want to be clear and say this. I know plenty of Catholics that are not obsessed with Israel and all this. But every single person, it seems that I know that is, like, obsessed with Israel's running the world, happens to be Catholic. - Interesting. Um, and I just, it's just like an interesting observation. I mean, and even if you look at the biggest creators online that are like constantly talking about Israel, Candace Owens, Catholic, Nick Fuentes, Catholic, Tucker Carlson, I would say closer to Catholic, um, than anything, whatever, all of these people. Um, but you know, of course there's like Michael Knowles, who's Catholic. He doesn't subscribe to all that stuff. So I'm not saying all Catholics. I'm just saying there's a lot of Catholics that happened to like really have this thing against Israel. I don't know. What do you make of that? I don't know. I don't know. Like I, I haven't made that connection. I haven't followed it, I guess that much, but that's interesting. Yeah. That's very interesting. And I don't know. I mean, I could maybe speculate on one aspect of it. You know, of course we've seen from Tucker and others, a major sort of coordinated attack on a certain view of eschatology within, you know, like dispensationalism. There's a view of eschatology, uh, within the Christian church that believes that is, you know, God's not finished with Israel. That, um, so there's like re what they call replacement theology where maybe the church has replaced Israel. I know a lot of people who ascribe to that don't like that phrase replacement theology, but there's a debate being had within Christianity. But what I've noticed from the group, maybe that you're talking about is they're trying to just, I think both views are, you know, debatable within Orthodox Christianity, of course, but there's like a specific attack on dispensationalism, which would say that God still has something to do for, you know, something for nationalism. For national Israel, like he's not finished with national Israel. And there's almost this kind of thing trying to discredit that view. And I have definitely seen that where it's almost like dispensational, uh, derangement syndrome where, you know, they're like, well, that's just, you know, this or that. And so that's interesting that they would have to discredit that view probably from an antisemitic place. Now, not everybody who, you know, dis disagrees with that is antisemitic, but there does seem to be an antisemitic reason to try so hard to discredit. Yeah. That view. I don't know. That's a random observation. So let me say this for the audience. So Vance is sitting in here because he loves Elisa. He wanted, he wanted to hear this conversation. What, what is it that you've known, you and I have discussed, um, you'll have to say, and I'll repeat what you're saying for the mic, that with the Catholics and this type of idea. Okay. So I don't know if you can hear him on the mic or not, but you want to like summarize what he said and then what's your response? Yeah. So, so you were right. Yeah. He was saying it's like, cause I just, you know, I have bandwidth for only so many things. I wasn't like down the rabbit hole on this one, but apparently, and help me if I, if I get this wrong, but, um, related to what I was saying about eschatology, there's like this separation of Jesus from Judaism, kind of, um, maybe disconnecting the old Testament from Jesus. Is that right? Because there's this idea that, you know, Jews have introduced all these bad things into the world, which by the way, is exactly what Nazi propaganda was like. Like, if you look at Nazi propaganda posters, we had to study this. Um. My son did a critical thinking class. We studied proper propaganda. And one of the posters like has this Jewish person behind the veil and he's kind of pulling the strings and, and controlling everything. I mean, that's exactly what the Nazis did. Right. And so this idea that separating Jesus, and then I, as we were talking, I was reminded of another ancient heresy called Marcionism that wanted to kind of reject the old Testament. Uh, actually in Marcionism, the God of the old Testament was a different deity and he was evil. And you know, it. He was very petty and all these things. And then Jesus is the God of the new Testament, but you see some flavors of those things. It's interesting that you kind of see Gnosticism popping up. You see Marcionism popping up, um, and you see those in progressivism as well. But that's why it's weird. Like it's weird that part Catholics in particular, some Catholics, people are going to be so bad. Some Catholics in particular seem to really grab onto this idea. Like why do you think that is with Catholicism? What's the Catholic eschatology? Mostly. So they are okay. Yeah. Interesting. So there. Yeah. So that's related to the covenantal theology. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That's true. Yeah. It's hard to read some of the church fathers for that reason. I don't know. I know that some people in Catholic audience will probably say none of that's totally fine, which is fine. I'd love to hear. Yeah. I represent all Catholics, every Catholic on earth. Okay. Um, but I'd love to hear in the comments, you guys can, maybe you can try that hold to covenantal theology too. Yeah. Where I've observed it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it's just an interesting side conversation. Maybe that can be something you dive into on your podcast at some point, but, um, okay. How do we become women who love truth and seek truth without becoming consumed by the search of it? Well, so I think that it would be good and godly and holy to become consumed by the search for God, for, for the truth of God. For, for knowledge of his word, to study the book of Hebrews, to study a book of the Bible. I think that'd be a good thing to be consumed with. What we have to be careful with is being consumed with pursuit of knowledge that's out. There are things that you just can let go. There are things that you don't need to go investigate everything about, especially if it has to do with real people's lives. It has to do with a murder case where you don't even have access to all of the evidence. That seems like a bit of a distraction. Uh, these things will play themselves out. There'll be a trial. There'll be evidence brought. Stay focused on the things that the Lord wants you to be focused on. And that's getting to know him and his word, uh, discipling your children, being a good wife, a good mother, um, discipling other women in your sphere. You know, the older women are to teach the younger women. These are the things that we are to focus on. And anything that distracts you from that is, is probably ungodly is probably unholy. It's not wrong to have hobbies and passions and outside interests and seek knowledge in other areas. But when you become so consumed with something that moves you away from that, that's sin. And that's why on my podcast, I've even said, like, I say this as gently as I can to Christian women who are really caught up in this. I say this gently. I say it with love, but you need to repent. You need to turn from that and get back into the word of God, get back into pursuing the, the nature and character of God. And so I want to encourage you to be a Christian and to be a Christian in the spirit of Jesus. I want to encourage you to be a Christian in the spirit of Jesus. I want you to be a Christian in the spirit of Jesus. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. I want you to be a Christian in the spirit of Jesus.