Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis

[MUSIC] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. [MUSIC] Normal is broken, common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host number one best selling author. Host of Front Row Seat, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. The phone number here is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for. The number is triple 8, 825-225. Aaron is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Aaron, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? >> Good. >> Good, how can we help? >> So I just kind of want to know what to do in my situation and if I'm just being a bride. So my boyfriend and I, we've moved in together into his house. His house is fully paid off, but it's managed in a trust by his mom. I have my own house as well that I got a mortgage on before we met and I paid $3,000 a month. We want to move into my home and rent out his home, but his mother is stopping us from doing that. And she's not going to allow us to fix up his home or anything to get it rental ready. I just feel bad because now I'm paying a mortgage on a home and it's just sitting empty. I'm not really sure what to do. >> Hmm. >> Well, so it's not really his house. >> No. >> It's really owned by a trust, his mother is the trustee. >> Yes. >> If she ever sold it, he would always get the proceeds. I think it's written in that way from the sale, but I just feel stuck. >> No, I don't think you're stuck. I think he's stuck. How old is he? >> T39. >> Hmm. Well, at some point you have to become a man, my son, and decide if your mommy's going to tell you what to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're shacking up with a mommy's boy. >> Definitely. >> Yeah. >> She wants us to live in the home. >> I don't care what she wants. He's 30 freaking nine years old. She don't get a vote. So, you know, I mean, she, this is like underdeveloped psychology. >> Yeah. >> And I mean. So, number one, I would not recommend that he completely trash everything over a girl that he's not married to. You. >> Fair enough. >> And so, but if he were married to you and the two of you are trying to set up a life and your mother is this controlling, I would just wash my hands of that house and say, "Mom, good luck with that house. Hope it works out for you. You no longer have a vote, and we're not going to live there." >> Okay. And so, it would be better for us to move into my home, right? >> No. >> And not have it, should ever be. >> It'd be better for you to do that if you were married. >> Yeah. >> But if you're not married, then he's taking a big risk. >> Yeah. >> Because now he's living in his girlfriend. >> Yeah. >> Now he has a roommate that's his girlfriend and she owns the house. He went from one lady owned in a house to another lady owned in a house. This guy's yet to get, he's still homeless. >> Yeah. >> No, definitely. You're not wrong there, sir. >> Yeah. >> That all. >> Yeah. It's a bad thing for all of you. I'm sorry, it's, and controlling people just piss you off. I mean, they just do. And she's obviously got issues, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the reason why I don't want to get married, though, because until they can resolve whatever it is between them, I don't want to cross that. >> Yeah. He's not married to material until he decides his mom doesn't get a vote anymore. I would tell my daughter not to marry him until he grows her backbone. >> His mom tells him what to do. >> Thank you. >> And he's 30 freaking nine years old. >> What's the penalty that she's holding over his head? That she's going to take him off the trust, getting the house if he moves out? What power does she really leveraging here? >> If I understand all the details correctly, there's a few other rentals in the trust and he receives income from those rentals. We both don't have any consumer debt. We follow all your steps and we try to do our best to live a debt-free life. But he does receive income from those rentals and his current job. >> So she doesn't have a choice in that. The trustee has to execute the terms of the trust. >> Yeah. >> And the terms of the trust are the rental income has to be turned over to him. She can't take that away from him. >> And so that's what I'm getting at. For you all in your relationship, what he is really facing is her disapproval. She's not threatening him with anything else. And Dave just took the teeth out of the property threat. That's what I'm getting at. What is he so afraid of? And what he's afraid of is upsetting mama, which is back to the core issue. For your relationship and everything else. But he can leave anytime he wants to leave. He's just afraid to piss mom off. That's what's going on. So that's the bigger relationship issue. >> Okay. >> And honestly, there's four things that you have to be in agreement on. And one of them is how we deal with extended family before you're married. And we're not in agreement about that because this has got issues. So yeah, I'd suggest you guys sit down and see a therapist. And I guess she could move in with you in your house if you want. But he's really still not dealt with his core issue. Which is he needs to be an independent human being, man, child. And actually do stuff like man stuff instead of just going from mommy to girlfriend. And scary stuff. So yeah. >> Has he ever been married before? >> Yeah, she's gone. >> Oh, she's gone. >> Yeah. >> Never mind. >> I didn't see the boy. >> I'm guessing there's a pattern. >> I'm also guessing mom doesn't like girlfriend. >> That's exactly right. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Sturts and Little Rock Arkansas. High store, what's up? >> Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. So I tried to be brief. My father had a heart attack in 2024 and he started taking his estate a little more seriously and how he would hand it down to my sister and I. And he was advised by a friend of his who was a lawyer for a very prominent American family. But is retired. Not in a state lawyer. >> That he does not need a trust. >> Probably doesn't. >> And what's his net worth? >> I would guess it's somewhere around 1.2 to 1.5 million. He owns a business. He owns all the equipment in there, the building. >> That I have for tax purposes. >> For tax purposes, he does not need a trust. Unless he's trying to control something from the deathbed or from the grave. The trust will help him do that. But he probably doesn't need a trust. It's probably accurate advice. >> One kind of screwball in this whole thing, curveball, is that we have a special needs brother, my sister and I. And he's been taking care of by the state, basically, since he was about 10. And we were hoping to avoid probate in any way possible. We just have a transfer on death benefit at the current situation. >> No probate is not evil. If you've got a good will, you walk right through it. And what he does need is in his will, he needs to form a special needs trust upon his death and the death of your mother. To take care of your brother. A special needs trust is funded at death. And then you name a trustee. Maybe you or your brother to manage that loot lump of assets. And the income created by that lump of assets takes care of the special needs person. That can be formed at death. That's not a rock and surgery. A lot of people do it. >> So, just sit down with a good estate planning attorney and work on a special needs trust to be part of your dad's estate plan. But he does not need a trust today. And there's no big thing on avoiding probate in Arkansas. Arkansas has not got a huge probate tax. That's not a big deal. [MUSIC] Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance. Or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch. >> And you're telling me, for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. >> Me too. >> And they don't know what to do next. >> Me too. >> I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. >> That's exactly true. >> These are the two options. >> And turn your dad-gump family. >> Turn life insurance can replace income. >> And then you're going to have a lot of kids cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. >> Yeah. exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years of the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. (upbeat music) I've ever wanted to see the person who's calling in to ask a question, or be in the room when we answer it. When I was your chance, the Ramsey show is going back on tour, experience live Q&A, raw confessions, crowd debates, and local debt free screams. The gang is gonna be doing live tapings of this show in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April. There's only around 300 seats tonight, better grab your tickets while you can at RamseySolutions.com. Slice events are click the link in the show notes. Scarlett is in Boston. Hey, Scarlett, what's up? - Hi, to get straight to my point, my parents through a series of recent unfortunate events have disclosed some financial mitsaps that have occurred in their lives, and it basically means that they have no retirement or savings plan beyond the immediate future. My husband and I are baby steps millionaires, and I wonder what my obligation is. If and when it comes time for them to be taken care of. - How old are they? - They come, they're in their 60s, early 60s. - Are they still working? - My dad is, my mom is on disability, she's unable to work. - Hmm, okay. And what were the mitsaps? How did they lose all their money? - My dad had a financial blow up post 2008, his company was bought by a over-fused company and basically stripped the result being he was sued by many, many people, eventually filed bankruptcy. He's now out of that and has worked just a JLD sense, but it's never been to that level of success he had when he owned his own business. - How long ago was the 2008, was the blow up, right? - Yep. - What does he make? - Six figures, I don't know too much about his salary, 'cause a lot of it is a little bit off. - I've saved nothing since 2008. - Correct, there have been some medical bills. My mom had a stroke and what-- - They don't have health insurance? - They did, the health insurance covered, there was a delay, they had to front some money and then the insurance company kicked her off the disability once she was approved initially for it, which is how I came by their financials. I helped them file an appeal and then we went to court to try and with the insurance company, you don't really win, but there was a small settlement and that settlement had been spent. So that's how I know through that process with my dad, what their financial situation has become. - Yeah. But the bottom line was after 2008, their heart was broken and they've never been really diligent about saving. - And I think they also kept it the lifestyle that was, that they couldn't sustain. - That's exactly what I'm saying, yeah. - Okay. - Yes. - So yeah, they're gonna stop that, aren't they? - I don't think they have any intentions of doing that, no? - Well, it's, so, I don't give a drunk a drink. I'm not gonna enable them and know you have no moral obligation to take care of anyone. There's no moral obligation. That's not your husband or your children, the minor children. The grown children, you don't have a moral obligation either. So, but you have a want too. I'd like to help my parents, which just makes you mean you have a heart and so forth. But I also have this paradox of while I want to help them, they've not done a good job themselves with even, even notwithstanding the couple of things they've run into. They're just not very diligent about handling their money and so they're broke. Well, hello. And so it makes it taste bad to want to give them money or to feel like I need to support them. So, what I might do, I mean, depends on how frank and how much you want to get up in their face on it. But it's mom and dad, I'm worried about looking down the road here that somehow your guys are gonna be broke and you're gonna be coming to me to take care of you. And I need to go ahead and tell you upfront how that's gonna go. If I end up having to put money into or needing to put money in so that you have food, it's gonna involve us selling everything you own and you will be on a budget that I create and you won't like it. So I don't want you to think you're going to be made, that you're gonna maintain this current set of habits with my money later. In other words, now I don't know how blunt you wanna get, but the closer you come to delivering some kind of a message like that, then sets them up to, gives them maybe a reason and I'll coach you guys on how to start saving because you still got some earning you can yours left and some potential left and you can roll up your sleeves and you guys can build an SDG. There's no reason for you to retire and eat dog food. But if I'm in charge, we're selling everything and you're in a one bedroom apartment and I will buy the groceries and pay the rent and you will not like your life. You will be able to exist and you won't be homeless but I am not going to send you on Caribbean cruises. And you got the ability to do that for yourself if you guys are rolled up your sleeves now and I can coach you on how to do that. Now I don't, again, I don't know how far down in this you wanna get. It sounds like this stuff has been kinda dribbling out to you. You've not been involved, you've not been involved and then finally on this one insurance thing you got a little more involved and I don't think they're asking your help or advice right now. You just see it's coming, is that right? - Correct. - Yeah, I think this is great advice and I think Dave gave you the financial advice and I would just add to what he said, you need to create some emotional boundaries to where you are prepared for their reaction if this situation plays out as you fear it might so that you've already made these decisions like Dave just laid out but you now are emotionally, mentally ready for any pushback and there's no guilt that comes in 'cause that will be the hardest part of this is to actually execute on what Dave said because there's a powerful pull with the parents, you know? - Your generation. - Your generation, your generation we call 'em sandwich generation because there's a pull from entitled parents and there's a pull from entitled grown children. And what the trick, the way to undo that sandwich is just remove the word entitled and it changes everything. You're not entitled to spit. Neither of you, grown kids, you're not entitled to spit. Well my children want to go, I don't care. Get your job, there's an idea. You don't go to work and mom and dad, you know, you've had, you went through this horrible thing with the business, some of that was your making, some of it wasn't. You went through this horrible thing with the insurance and you didn't take care of that properly. Let me tell you the number of times I front for an insurance company, zero, and then hope I recoup out of 'em. Now I'm gonna turn everybody loose on everybody and then I'm gonna stand back and watch 'em all fight let the insurance company and the provider fight. You guys figure it out and then I'll clean up what's left but I'm not writing a check and then somebody's gotta come in borrow money and then I try to recoup out of the insurance company, not a chance. Still I'm going at their throat right now and that's being proactive rather than just kind of gliding along and there's a lot of gliding along in this. So it's a very hard thing to decide. Now you also can decide you've got enough money, you don't wanna deal with it and I'm just gonna write whatever check I need to write and then just take care of 'em and I'm just not gonna worry about it. And if that's the case, you probably wouldn't made this phone call. - Yeah. - So you just done it and I'm just gonna be in a naveler and I'm comfortable with that and that's what I wanna do. I'm a dead took care of me, I'm gonna take care of them and it's no big deal. It's not morally wrong either way but when you call up and ask that means that you don't wanna do it. That's what it means. So how much pre-emptive strike do you wanna get involved in is the next decision you gotta make? How much pre-emptive conversations? - Dave I was gonna ask you kind of a follow up. What are your thoughts? 'Cause I think there's probably several hundred thousand people that could be listening right now that are in these shoes and they feel a sense of burden to take care of their parents. And when you say there's no moral obligation, I agree with you. But what advice would you give to them to get over that emotional hump, that sense of guilt or shame that they ought to take care of them if they don't their bad kids? What would you tell them? - Well, I think you just need to decide, whether it's your responsibility or not. If it is not your responsibility, then there shouldn't be a shame or guilt. The only reason you gotta have shame or guilt is if you feel like it's your responsibility and you didn't do it. That's the only reason it would be there. And so like, you know, if my buddy calls me up and says, I need some money, I have zero shame or guilt about either giving it to him or not giving it to him. - Right, right. - 'Cause I don't feel an obligation to him. I don't feel like I have to do it. And honor your parents in the Bible does not mean honoring misbehavior. If mama's doing cocaine, you're not honoring her by giving her $10,000. That's not honoring your parents. (upbeat music) Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwind's Credit Union. They're not gonna fix your habits. That part's on you, but they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable, and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your smart bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsy and get the Ramsey B-Whear debit card to go along with it. That's fairwinds.org/ramsy, ensured by the NCUA. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Frank is in Toronto. Hey Frank, how are you? - Not bad, they finally got to through the talk to you. - Well, we're glad you did. How can we help, sir? - It's an honor for you to be there. You and all the personalities. I was just wondering, looking for future planning purposes here of what it's once I get to baby step four, which I believe is saving 15% towards retirement that I could maybe have to go a little more gung-holy than that because I'm 54 and don't have anything safe for retirement. I'll have $215,000 worth of retirement investment room when I get to that stage. I'll be debt free in eight months. - Good. - I've actually set the date for November the 6th. And then I'll have my emergency fund of $10,000 saved. I have $3,000, I just did a budget. I got $3,000 each month in hand room. - What's your household income? - Right now it's just me, I'm the household, 5,600 net per month. - Okay, all right. So if you save 15% of your gross annually into good growth stock mutual funds inside of your retirement plan, now you're in Canada. So it's a little different, but still, you can do all of that. - Yep. - And you do that for 10 or 12 years, you're 55 at the point, you start, and you do it to 65, 67, you're gonna be a millionaire. You're gonna be fine. - Wow. - And no, you don't have to, no, you don't have to do it out of order. You do need to get your house paid off during that time as well. - I don't have a house, that's what the other thing too. - Okay, and you start talking about how we're gonna do that and what we can get paid for, because when you go into retirement, your most expensive line item in your budget is always housing. - Yes. - And if you don't have debt on your house, obviously, it's no longer the most expensive line item in your budget. So you've got a lot of room then. But you're gonna be fine if you just continue to fall at the end, it sounds like you got it really dialed in. So congratulations, keep it up. If you need more help, call us anytime, brother. Nick is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Nick, what's up? - Hey Dave, just calling, I hope you can hear me well enough, I'm in a rural area right now. - Okay. - I got a couple of questions here on, I'm sitting, well first off, I'm only 27 years old. I got a hundred and 23,000 in debt year. 81 is about the house, 81,000. 28,000 is my car. And then personal loads of around 6,000 medical bills sit around 8,000. My main question today is, I always hear you say sell your car if you, because the car is worth about 12 grand today. - Who said? I looked at Cully Bluebook and then I also looked at the dealership, a couple of different dealerships. - On private sale or trade in? That sounds like a trade in. - I believe that would be, that would be just a sale, because I'm trying to get out of this loan and not get a new one. - Okay. - So it's my math is correct, where I think we're sitting at like 17,000 underwater right now. - So you owe, - I think, sir. - 32,000 dollars on this thing, 34,000 dollars on this thing? - Yeah. - Yep, 'cause we originally were-- - If you roll a negative, you roll negative equity from another car into this deal? - I did, yep. - Yeah, that's how you got there. Okay. And what's your household income? - Yeah, exactly. So I, we do 70,000 before the taxes and then tax, come out, we get about 56, 57. - Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you're stuck in that car. You're selling it as of no benefit because it's not worth anything compared to what it's owed. So, you know, it's not much help. But what that does mean sadly is, is that you're gonna work six extra jobs and you're gonna sell everything else in sight. Everything's gonna put the cat on Craig's list and the dog on eBay. I mean, we're going crazy here. And beans and rice, man, no life. You've got to lean into this and start throwing grenades at it. Harsh, like your life depends on it. It's not, you can't wander out of this mess. You're gonna be extremely intense. - Okay. So the monthly payment right now is 647. - Yeah. - And I have been the past few payments to 1,100. - That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about coming up with $30,000. Extra. - Okay. - You need to be making like an extra $2,000 a month and squeezing every dime out of your existing budget too. So you're married, I take it. - Yeah. - Yeah. Everybody in the house is working. The children are going to the salt mines. Everybody's working. We're all making more money. We're all gonna throw it at this mess. 'Cause this is not gonna go away with, you know, just sitting down and tightening up the only budget you have right now. 'Cause you've tried that and an extra payment is not getting you out any time in this century. 'Cause you probably also have a high interest rate on this thing, don't you? - Yeah, it's about 10, 10,000 right now. - So you got screwed coming in going. You don't need to be on a car lot for a while, do you? Whew, what a mess. - Yeah, if I'm sitting in this situation and I have any cash, I'm gonna go ahead and move this thing. And I'm gonna drive a clunker because of-- - If you can get the cash. - If you can get the cash. - But it's 17,000 upside down. If that number's accurate and the things worth 12, we're gonna replace it with a five. You only got a $7,000 move here. So getting rid of that thing and getting rid of the debt on it and getting rid of these other debts so that you can attack it with a vengeance is absolutely necessary here. So any money you can scrape together that's not in a retirement, anything you can sell that's not in retirement and any extra work you guys can do. And I'm talking about work that makes money. Not just out there moving around. I'm talking about Uber. I'm talking about really making some money. And I want you working weekends, nights, overtime. I want your wife doing the same. Y'all got a mess. And you're gonna stay in the mess unless you throw some money at it. And so that's what it's gonna take. It's gonna take this crazy intensity and then you can move the needle. Isabella is in New York City. How is Isabella? How are you? I'm good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I need your opinion here 'cause I need you to act as a tiebreaker. But I just got a new job with a higher salary and my parents are really pushing me to buy an apartment in New York City. Obviously New York City is one of the most renters, heavy cities in the country. I've really never sought a buying or considered it but my parents are not letting it go. I'm happy renting work. Why do your parents have a vote? 'Cause they're my parents. That doesn't give them a vote. You're supposed to be like a grown woman and stuff. I do take a lot of like what they say into a cow. Well that's nice, that's sweet, but they don't really get a vote. I do see where they're coming from. I think from me it's a rather common knowledge. I'm 24. What do you make? What's the new salary? 95,000. What's the cost of the apartment? With 95,000 I could reasonably look at anything between 300,000 and 100,000 in the city. That's not in the city. I send an outline borrow somewhere. If it's in a co-op I would have to, it would be within that budget. So there would be a lot of money. - Mm-hmm. - Who walks these on top of it? - In Manhattan? - Correct. - You talking about 400 square feet or something? - My own apartment right now that I'm renting is pretty tiny, so I see where they're coming from. That I could upgrade while owning at the same time, but I don't know. - I'm not sure you can. That number doesn't sound right to me, but okay, I'm not a Manhattan expert, but all right, I mean, you might be on the Bronx or Queens or something and do that, but I'm thinking you're gonna be on the island doing that. So here's the thing, you're 24 years old, you make $95,000 a year, and you don't really wanna buy right now. That's what you told me. - I don't know. - That's kind of what you said. - For me, I don't see how I can buy. - I'm not sure how either. I don't think you buy right now. - I agree. - I'm okay with you waiting. Some day you wanna buy, and maybe you're still in New York City, maybe you're still in Manhattan, but home ownership when you don't want to is a bad idea. Home ownership when you can't afford it is a really bad idea. All home ownership is not good. Only when it's done properly is it a blessing. (upbeat music) If you're looking for a more budget-friendly way to save on medical costs, and stay true to your values, Christian healthcare ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry, a biblical community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills. That means no enrollment deadlines, and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self-employed between jobs, or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community, and many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance, and that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM's offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at CHministries.org/budgets and use promo code Ramsey. That CHministries.org/budget and promo code Ramsey. (upbeat music) - Colton is in Atlanta. Hi, Colton, how are you? - Doing good. Hey, I got a quick question for y'all. I have a small business, and I'm wondering how I should do profits sharing with my two team members. - Okay, that's a great question. And I think it's really important that you start thinking about that at your size we did then, when we were that size. Now there's a thousand of us, and we have 14 core values. One of our core values on the wall is share the profits. So we share with everybody in the building and one way or another all kinds of different ways. Now it's somewhat complicated because there's so much. The first thing I learned, the hard way that I will teach you, is to make sure that the two team members know that this is Colton's money, and I am sharing it. That's different than corporate profit sharing as part of my comp plan that I'm entitled to. This is you out of the goodness of your heart, setting up a culture inside my little company here that I believe in sharing with the team, and I am doing that voluntarily. You see the difference in the spirit? - Yeah. - It's like when you're in the kindergarten sharing. You know what I'm saying? This is not like profit sharing is part of my comp plan and they didn't pay it. And so I'm pissed. No, you don't get that option. You're not entitled. This is me being kind and you smiling when I'm kind. That's how this works, okay? - So I probably didn't do it. - Wrong. - Yeah, that, that, that, me, I did. I screwed it up when I was your size and I had to go back and reset. The second thing I do, and we still do this to this day, is we pay out profit sharing here once a month, and our CFO gets on the stage and says, hey, profits were up over last month, down over this month last year. We had a good month. Here's a couple of bright spots in the company without going into details and numbers. Here's how many people are involved in the profit sharing plan this month. And so your profit sharing check's gonna be a little better than last month and not as good as two months ago. And here's why. And then we close that talk out with, here's where profits come from, and everyone in the whole room, all 1,000 people say, profits happen when revenues go up, everybody says up, and when expenses go down, so your job is to make revenues go up and expenses go down, and then you get more profit sharing 'cause I'll have more to share with you. And we say that like we're in kindergarten or something every Wednesday, or every Monday morning that we do, once a month we're doing profit sharing announcement. So 'cause we want everybody to remember, this is not Santa Claus is not delivering a bag of money. This happened because we all work together to keep expenses down and revenues up. And you have to reset that in people's minds over and over and over again, because people forget and they're like, oh well, the company didn't give me any money. Now that's not how this works, honey. You're self-employed like the rest of us. We as a group sucked, so your profit sharing is down. 'Cause there's less profit to share. And so we talk about it when it's up or down. And so those are two things you want. You reset the entitlement and the ownership aspect. And then you can figure out from after those two things are in place how to do the calculation. I used to do ours when I was your size once a quarter because it wasn't much money, and it'd be like 500 bucks or something after a quarter, right? And so, 'cause there wasn't a lot of profit, when a lot of revenue, and there's four of us, you know? And so, and I wanted it to be a little bigger check, but what I figured out was is that people weren't, they couldn't count on it 'cause they only got it ever so often. And so it wasn't connecting in their brains. And so once we figured that out, we went back, we went to a monthly. What you could do is not do any of that. And you could say, hey guys, ever so often, we had a great month, I'm taking all of us and the wives and the kids out to dinner, and we're all going to a movie, and I'm gonna spend some company money just to say thank you 'cause we're sure some of our profits will do that way. And, or, hey, here's a hundred dollar handshake. We had a good month. And it's not formal and it's not a bunch of math calculation. And you can keep it fairly primitive and simple that way when there's three of you, without getting into some kind of freaking spreadsheet analysis. And by the way, our team does not know how profits are how their portion of profit sharing is calculated. That way they don't have to back into and worry about what's going on. All they know is we share with them. And it's pretty dead gum sweet these days. So, is that making sense? What'd you say you did wrong? - Well, so what I've been doing is, we do commercial residential remodeling. And so, by the time I take all the expenses out and after I pay myself and there's some left, then I usually, what I've been doing is just giving them 3% of that. I didn't tell them this. I just told them that they're gonna get some sharing in the profits we make of it. There's a successful job. - That's a good note. I like that. What's wrong with that? - Then they don't get in it. They don't get in it. But then I'm also trying to figure out what percentage should I save back for retained earnings because sometimes we don't work for a while. And then I'm like, don't have enough there to save. - Yeah, the profits that we use to calculate, the number we use to calculate profit sharing is after we have set retained earnings aside. - Okay, that's what I was kind of wondering. - Yeah, so we set retained earnings aside and that creates, we have several layers of profit, net profit, NP1 through 7. I have seven different layers of profit before or after certain expenses. And the only one that gets paid off, the actual NP7 is me and a couple of our senior leaders. But everybody else are different layers in there as to where we're cutting profit to the end and out. 'Cause I've got some of the VPs, some of the vice presidents to get paid a percentage of the profits in their area as part of their comp. And that's not technically profit sharing. I've got profit sharing in addition to that. So I've got all that complicated bull crap in there, but yeah, it's after retained earnings. So you have to run your business and when money's left after you run your business, you share with them. - Okay. - And I think it's smart to say, hey, guys, if we can keep the cost down on this job and keep our estimating sharp and estimate the job properly, so we get the proper price on the job. And then we don't buy 73 tools that we don't need in order to do the job, because we're all too old at X and everything else. your world, then we're going to have some profit left and I'm going to make sure some of that goes home with you. And I'm making it up as I go, but I'm just promise you the spirit is I want to share with you. Okay. So you think it's okay to do it by job like I've been doing. Oh, I think it's smart. Okay. Because there are jobs times when we don't profit. Yeah. I mean, like, I profit, but the business does it profit. And so then we just say, hey, we need to talk about why this didn't profit. Exactly. We're all self employed. And if the pro job doesn't make a profit, we don't have anything to share. Hello. That's perfect. How old are you? Thank you. No, 24. Man, you're sharp. You're doing good job. I'm proud of you. Very. You spent some time thinking about this. Yeah. It's really good. I read your book. I read your book. Tell, I want, I want the audience to hear how your team members reacted when you first gave them some profit share. What was that reaction like? The first time it was like $6 and they were making the joke that they could go buy an ice drink. Right. But it's been up since then and they really, it really surprises them every time. Yeah. And so that's what I wanted to just emphasize by asking you that question is because that is the key to building loyalty. They appreciate, you know, even though it was six bucks, they still appreciated the thought and the thought, you know, we've all heard it's the thought that counts our wives try to drill that into us husbands, you know, it's the thought that counts, get the birthday card, write a note, you know, the whole drill. But I just want to make sure young leaders catch this. This is how you build a business on core people is fundamentally showing people how much they matter to you. And I think that's going to serve you very well. So I wanted to applaud you as well. That's really good. Yeah, you did a great job. Very well done. So yeah, building a business you love, one of the things we talk about in there is the importance of being able to, you know, share. It's the beauty of small businesses. Most small businesses are not greedy people. They're not like corporate America. They don't piss on their people. Most of them take care of, they're like family. They take care of each other. And so, you know, the guys like that right there, that's pretty cool. He starts with six dollars. That's pretty fun. I like that a lot. [Music] Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well. Make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic. And you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. This where NetSuite comes in over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system, accounting inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move. But NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to NetSuite.com/Ramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com/Ramsey. [MUSIC] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wednesdays Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author and host of the show Front Roe Seat on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Monica's in Houston. Hey, Monica, how are you? I'm feeling good today. How are you? What's up? Well, I'm Colin. First of all, I've been spending to your show for quite a while. And it's primarily me that let's us to your show. My husband doesn't at all. My question today has to do with the cash out Reef by my husband and I are almost to the retirement age. He'll turn 65 next week and I will turn 64 in the summer. We have no savings, no retirement. Our joint income is around $116K. We have debt, personal loans, credit cards and automobiles with $83,000. And we have a $28,000 mortgage loan that we disagree on. But we do have it against our primary residence. So my husband looked into getting a cash out Reef by to grow all of our debt into one loan to three of the debt. Well, it doesn't free you of it. It moves it onto your house. Right. It moves it onto the house. You're paying off anything. You're just moving it. Right. Okay. And so I was trying to claim that to my husband. I said, look, this is a 30 year loan and we're our mortgage is at $53K right now. Why would it make sense for us to roll all this debt into another mortgage loan? We're almost at the finish line. So the loan officer is tagging me with my husband trying to get me to agree that it makes sense to finance this loan again and put all the debt into one pot. And you saying that I would be walking away with an extra $3,000 a month if I were to go a bit route and if we added an extra $2,000 a month, we could pay off the mortgage in six years. I don't know if that makes sense to me or not. I need you to help me to sort this out. Well, what's bothering you is that nothing changed in your habits when you do this. Break. And so when you're 70, you're going to be back in debt. I don't like that idea. I don't know. But that's what you're going to do because the system you all are using now puts you here. And you're not changing anything in the system. You think and your husband thinks he can borrow his way out of debt and you can't dig your whole dig your butt. You can't dig out the bottom of a hole and get out. That's not how it works. So how much of the 83 is his truck? I've already 2000. And that weird that I knew that. I'm prepared to sell my truck and just drive the other one. How much do you owe on the other truck? No, the Jeep is 24,000 and we have an F-150 that we paid cash for that he drives occasionally when he doesn't drive the more expensive truck. And I told him, I mean, how many cars do you all have? We have three vehicles, two trucks and one Jeep. Okay. And truck number one that he drives occasionally that's paid for is worth what? Maybe $6,000. Okay. And the other truck is worth 32 and owes 32 only at, right? And then there's the Jeep that you owe 24 on, right? Correct. Think I found the problem. If I was 65 years old and getting ready to retire and I was stone cold broke, I'd be scared. Not looking for a six year plan that some freaking loan officer gave me. That gives me chills. So y'all probably aren't going to do this because I don't think you and your husband are aligned on this. But mathematically what y'all ought to do is sell both these cars, both of them. And not do a cash out refinance instead pay your way out of debt and be debt free soon or than six years. That's what makes sense to me. That's what I've been trying to do. I think you can pay off the house and everything in about three years at 68 years old, but you're going to be not driving these two cars. Well, I tried to explain that to him. I said, look, we own in two vehicles with two notes that didn't make sense to me to begin with. We have a congestion trailer that we use occasionally. That's why he bought the truck to move the congestion trailer around. But now that we have one spot, I don't see us moving it all the time. I see us trying to use it to get out of debt. I really feel like not getting up the 53 K that we have left on the mortgage in sacrifices for 185. Yeah, so $85,000 if you saw these two cars get you completely out of debt mortgage and everything and you make 116. You can do that in two to three years. And you should because you're freaking retirement age and broke. Well, I mean, you said you had $83,000 in debt, right? Not counting the mortgage. Okay. And if I take 32 from that, if I take 32 from that, I have 51. And if I take 24 from that, I have 26. 26 and 53 mortgage is 78. You make 116. How fast do you pay off 78, making 116? If you paid off 35,000 a year, you're done in two years. If you pay off 25,000 a year, you're done in three years. - Okay. - And that's a six year plan that makes your banker rich. - That's what I told him. I said we could do this in three years. - Yeah, the last financial planner you need is a loan officer. - That's what I thought. - That's why I've been listening to you radio station so I don't get into these things. - I don't know if you're gonna get hubby to do all this. - Well, you know what? - I think it's time to try. And by the way, the timeline Dave gave you speeds up if you guys are working extra. - Yeah. - You could do it in two years. - Well, you got health. - And if you got no house payment, no payments at all, I got your $3,000. Now it's $4,000. Freeed up to start saving some money. You start saving 50 grand a year and you do that for four or five years. You're gonna have a decent nest egg in your seventies. And you won't be retiring eating dog food. Alpo, the breakfast of champions. It's like, oh my gosh. You know, I mean, yeah. But here's the thing. We've been buying crap. We can't afford 'cause we wanted it. And some loan officer told us it's a good idea. The guy at the car lot said, look, I got you approved. And like we're supposed to celebrate that? Hello. You owe more on your cars than you do on your house. - Oh, Ouch. It's fact, pinch me. (laughing) - It's true. What is wrong with this picture? - Right. - Yeah, well, she's been controlling the house thing and he's been doing the other stuff. And now he's tinkering with the thing. She's been controlling. - That's right. - And that's why she grows up. - That's right. - It's good for you, kiddo. Yeah, I'm afraid I'm gonna cause some marital discord and I'm happy to. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - When you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits, a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you. A lot of so-called debt relief programs, leave people wondering, am I actually protected if I get sued? When all you've got is a legal plan added on as an upsell, of course you feel stuck. But Guardian isn't another debt relief company. They're real attorneys. And with Guardian, you're assigned an attorney from day one. That means if a creditor sues, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Now look, I'm telling you straight, debt settlement isn't pretty. I'd rather see you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're out of options and you're staring down bankruptcy, Guardian gives you real protection and a path forward. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than $600 million in debt. Not with gimmicks with legal expertise. So if you want real help instead of a sales pitch, go to guardianlit.com/ramz. That's guardianlit.com/ramz. It's any advertising. Results may vary, and no specific outcome is guaranteed. (upbeat music) Charles is in Sacramento. Hey, Charles, how are you? (upbeat music) Doing well, how are you, Dave? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up? - All right, I was wondering if going out in SBLock for an investment property would be the right move for me. - Okay. Well, I'm guessing you're fairly new to our show. - I've been listening for a while, but my financial advisor presented me with the option of an SBLock. It's not pushing me towards it just, you know, presenting the options. - But I mean, if you've been listening to this, you know I don't borrow money or tell people to borrow money, right? - That's right. - Okay, so the answer would be no. - Okay, got you. - Yeah, I mean, that's, I love real estate and I love investment property. I hate debt on it, and I really hate the small business administration. They suck. If you get tied in with them and what that's gonna do to the risk of your whole portfolio, and all just to get a rental property, is the risk level that you just took on neither one of you two are thinking about what you're doing here. The risk level is through the roof. So your investment guy's risk meter's broken, because the SBLock is always tied to other assets as well. And so you're putting all of that at risk to screw around with a rental property in California. - Well, that's, so that's the thing. The rental property actually isn't in California. - Well, that's worse. - It's a lot further away in the island of Guam. - Oh, that's really bad. - It's my wife's grandmother's house. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, we don't, we do not have rental property that's investment property this long distance. And we certainly don't buy grandmother's house for rental property in Guam. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This guy, you're trying to figure out a way to do something you can't afford and this guy's presenting you an option to finance something you can't afford to do. And really it's God just yelling at you, don't do this. (laughing) - So true. It's a long distance headache. That's what you're looking at. - Well, as foreign country, hello. I mean, if you're gonna invest in real estate, you want real estate to be a very predictable environment. Okay? And so if you're gonna invest money in a foreign country situation, you've completely left the stability of the US economy. And so you can do that, but you need to be able to burn that amount of money down. And so if you want to buy a property in Mexico, you want to buy a property in Guam, Costa Rica. I got a friend of mine about a place in Costa Rica the other day. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But somehow we Americans think that everywhere else in the world still functions the way the United States functions and it doesn't. It's a freaking banana republic, hello. And so they may just come over there and take your property. So you need to be able to just abandon that amount of money at any point if you're gonna do that. And I'm not saying Guam is gonna do that. I'm not saying Costa Rica is gonna do that. But we cannot make the assumption that their governmental processes, their ownership, private property rights function the same way in that culture, in that country, as it does in the US. It doesn't. And so these things turn socialist or communist in about an eye blink and all of a sudden, you're one of those evil property owners. So you just have to think about these. You need to be able to burn that amount of money down and you don't borrow on a small business line of credit to buy in a foreign country. No, for sure. For sure. So you do whatever you want, but you called and asked us and we're always gonna tell you the truth 'cause we love you. And we don't want you to get hurt and you're gonna regret that one if you do it. I promise. Albert's in Phoenix. Say Albert, what's going on? - Hey, hey, how you doing well? So I'm 25 and my girlfriend's 23. Friday is our five year anniversary. So happy for that. With that timeline comes marriage. And I do wanna propose to that girl. - Good. - But my main concern really isn't that it's what comes with that marriage. So the potential in laws and they're fantastic people. Don't get me wrong, love them. But I've noticed that their finances are all out of whack from like the last three years. So they're in their early mid 50s and they have nothing saved up for retirement. They owe $170,000 on their house and they make a combined household income of 70 to 75,000 to hang on over time. - Is your girlfriend saying? Is she gonna be a wife that wants to do what they've done? - No, no, no, no. - That's what I mean. - Definitely financially on the same page. So we're good at that. - Okay, so the two of you are gonna be okay. The only question is is you've got this potential liability off in the distance. - Yeah, so they're going on three to four vacations a year while we're living our life. - Honey, you can't fix that. If you're gonna start out your marriage trying to fix the end laws, you're gonna have a long life. - Okay, gotcha. It's just that we're in the situation where we've been asked for money personally for the most basic necessities. - And I would just say no. - Rochries. - Say no. And if she doesn't get comfortable and you don't get comfortable saying no, then we've got other problems. But it's the two of you that are the problem, not them. 'Cause they're a known quantity. We know what they're gonna do. They're gonna piss away money and ask you money. That's a given. Has your girlfriend given in and given them money? We lost you. Did she give them money or not? Say it again. Yes. Okay. Yeah, no, that's the so that's what I've been worried about. This is this is the person we need to be talking to, not them. Yeah. You're not gonna fix them. The only thing you're going to determine with her is the two of you are going to hold hands lock arms and say this so we're going to have a life and life includes your crazy butt parents. God, you're my only concern is I don't want to be a pocketbook for the retirement and don't be hard to say no. Don't be. Just plan on it. I'm planning on saying no. This is the premarital counseling stuff. This is this would be issue number one for me based on what you've presented. Yes. What you called us about. Yeah, I agree you should have a concern, but you got to hear what Dave said. The concern is with your girlfriend potential life. And you. Yeah, you both have to be locked in here to say no. We're never going to say yes again. We made that mistake once. We're not going to do it again. These are not poor pitiful people. These are people who don't manage their money well. So it's hard to feel sorry for them when they need money. Right? And you need a new phone. Okay. It's about the fourth time I've been through that. All right. So guys, learning to set boundaries with your in laws and with extended family of any kind and extended families, anyone that doesn't live inside of our home, you, your spouse, your personal minor children, you have to be able to set boundaries with them and create quality, kind, compassionate boundaries to say we're not able to do that. It doesn't match with our goals. I'm sorry. We're unable to do that. And about the fourth time they'll get mad and they'll say, but you just, but I deserve no, I'm sorry. I, we're not able to do that. I'm just, I'm so sorry. We're not able to do that. Yeah. And we've looked at our budget and we just don't have room for that. Yeah. And well, we're a millionaire. I know, but we looked at our budget and we're in our room for that. So, um, you know, that's I mean, you just, you just got to be kind about and go, no. And, um, you know, now I'll be, listen, I'll be happy to get you into financial peace university and, you know, I'll help you sell your car and, um, you know, I'll help you get an extra job. And, uh, I'll coach you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I love you. I want you to win. But I'm not able to enable. Yeah. I love that. That's really good. I would say, hey, let me tell you about these baby steps. I'll walk with you. I'll hold you accountable. You up for that. But you can't, but that's only after they ask for money. You know, just a little marching in there. That's just that. They're not going to hear it. That's it. They come in and go, you know, we're not able to do that. But I tell you what I can do. Yes. And even if you want to go super crazy, you could go listen, if you get on a plan and you're real intense and you're starting to work, I might even throw in some towards the plan after I see the plan working. But the plan right now is you just spend, piss away money and then you come over here wanting some, that's not a plan I'm in for. You, you pissing away money and then tell me I got to make it up. That's not, that's not something we do here. So, you know, and, but dude, this is you and your girlfriend being grown up stuff and setting boundaries with people that you love, but don't respect. That's hard. [Music] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am right here because some extraordinary women in my life, mentors, friends, my wife, my mom, because they're all amazing. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, women are under incredible pressure every day. And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being to care for others. 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And our super favorite thing to do is when it's one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, which will be true of Josh today and his wife Holly are with us to do their debt-free scream. Welcome guys. Thank you. We're so excited. I go. Very cool. All right, Josh, tell people what you do here and how long you've been with us. Yeah, I've been here at Ramsey for about five and a half years and I am on the Ramsey education team. I'm a relationship manager for our sponsors. Okay, and that's the high school curriculum primarily and we get sponsors that pay for that to go into the high schools and you help get that done. Yes, sir. Very cool because the high school curriculum has had about six million students do it now. Yes, sir and counting. Yeah, there we go. Good stuff. Well, congratulations. All right, how much debt have you two paid off? We've paid off $175,000 just just north of that. Goodness gracious. And what period of time? 18 months. Yeah. Whoa. Okay. Now we don't ask incomes because your team members are all standing around. That would be unfair otherwise we always put other everybody else on the spot that how in the world do you pay off $175,018? That's like $10,000 a month. A lot of Chick-fil-A, but then also like working here and working our jobs, but it's been so fun. Yeah, when she says Chick-fil-A, we picked up some side hustles. We worked at Chick-fil-A. It's been super fun. I've always done an Instacart, so did Instacart on the side and yeah, when we first got married, I had been saving up money while we were engaged to put down. You know, once we got married, we wanted to start knocking out the house and so you had a chunk to throw at it. Exactly. And how long y'all been married? A year and a half. 18 months. 18 months. That's this begins. Okay. Yes, sir. Okay. So this is starting to sound like Holly brought this to this day. I did. I did. Okay. I came with a lot of baggage, which was the mortgage. Put your worth every penny. I hope so. He's done this. So this is your mortgage. It was our mortgage. You paid off your freaking house. Yes, we did. Oh, I was thinking student loans. Oh my God. So you married a woman with a house. I got it. Okay. That's a lot better. That's a lot better deal. Okay. Good job, man. Wow. Yeah. How old are you two? I'm 27. I'm 29. And you have a paid for freaking. What's this house worth? Just under 300,000. Gee, so you guys are going to be a millionaires in no time. Yeah, we're excited. How do you know? So you just you got married and then just went we're game on. We're not going to. You went because they're intense on the house. We did. Yeah. Yeah. We treated baby step six like baby step two. And that's kind of something before we got married, we went through FPU and we just wanted to, you know, we dreamed. Do we said like, Hey, what what could life look like if we had no payments? And so. So neither one of you had any consumer debt coming in. That's right. No, I when I first started working here, that's when I you cleaned all that. I cleaned all my head about $40,000. And she's obviously responsible because she had no debt in the house. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's a shout out to mom and dad for. Yeah. Thank you. No, she was listening to Dave Ramsey growing up in the car. Yeah. The car asking lots of questions that I didn't know what I was asking, but she was answering. Okay. And got us here today. So financial peace, baby and a financial peace employee. There we go. That's how this happens. Okay. Yep. Wow. Look at you all. So proud of y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Your mom and dad got to be proud too. I think so. Yeah. I mean, y'all went kind of freaky though. I mean, you went after this mortgage. Yeah. Well, people making fun of you outside of here. I know in here, they cheer you on, right? Yeah. They weren't making fun of us, but they were definitely like, you know, this is the wisest decision on paper. And I was like, yeah, but it's like the best decision for us. Yeah. It's always, you know, the answer is always just what we're selling for peace. Yeah. Yeah. That's important. So. Yeah. How many hours a week at the height of all of this were you guys putting in total probably like 70, probably 15 to 20 at Chick-fil-A. Yeah. And so you guys were working together at the same Chick-fil-A. Did you work in the back of the house? I worked in the front of the house. Yeah. It was so fun. It was. It was so fun. Yeah. So shout out to her Chick-fil-A. Why was that? Why was that so fun? Oh, I've never worked in food. So I was like, they just seem so happy. Like, whatever they've got going on, I want to be a part of that. So on our honeymoon, I was like, can we please get jobs at Chick-fil-A? And then we did. And it was, it was so fun. I think that's fantastic. I got to tell you, of all the couples' was greater honeymoon stuff. Yeah. Maybe can we get jobs at Chick-fil-A? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. But you guys, I cut your food budget, I imagine. Yeah. they feed you every time you work. So like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like meals for checked-off to this. - Hey, man, yeah, yeah. - I knew that was part of it. I could just tell. (laughing) Wait, are you saying something about, you know? - No, no, man, you look great. - No, it looks like a great diet to me. No, I'm just saying, when you both decide to work at Chick-fil-A and your gazelle intense, you have figured out that there's some free food in here. - That's right. - And that's a really good deal. That's better than rice and beans. No offense, Dave. (laughing) Chick-fil-A chicken is pretty good. - Jesus chicken drumstick. - It does. - It does. - You guys are amazing. - That's fun. - Way to go. All right, now, so when people say, how did you pay off your house at 27 years old, what do you tell them? - Yeah, I mean, there's the obvious, you know, get on the every dollar budget. That was something from the get-go. We had to make sure we knew where every dollar was going otherwise this doesn't happen. So that was, you know, everybody says that. But I would say, biggest thing for me is just, taking time to be grateful throughout the journey, looking back on how blessed we are, how blessed we're able to have jobs, we're able to have side gags. And we hit a milestone and we were just thankful to God that you put us in a spot where we can do this, you know? So that was big for me, but. - Yeah, I think it was really fun to like lock arms in the first year of marriage. And like we are naive. Like life's gonna get hard, but it does feel like we can accomplish anything together. So that was kind of like being on the same page was really, really fun together. It's obvious that you guys were really dialed in together and there wasn't one of you dragging the other one along and that's, you're right, you can take on anything. If you do that, you can do anything you want to do. So I'm so proud of you all. Very, very well done. It's very well done. What was the hardest part? - Yeah, we were thinking about this question. There were definitely some nights like when you're in the grind of like Thursday night, we're eating chicken again. - Again. - And we're like, I've got to go make chicken after this. He's got to go sell chicken after this. And we were just exhausted. So we were looking at each other and we were like, we're shells of humans. Like is this worth it? So there were moments of really, really hard, but you get a good night's sleep and you wake up and you can go again the next day. - I can handle that, but I think the hardest thing for me was I am traditionally a spender. So when we have most of our budget going towards throwing it at this every month, I'm like, "Ah, dang it, I can't go buy a new pair of shoes or something like that." So it was hard to have that disappointed and to just say no to a lot of things. - But you got there. - We did. - And now you're just. - What's the first big thing you're gonna do to celebrate? I mean, you got your company. - I think I've been. - She's burger, come on. (laughing) - Yeah, no more chicken. - No more chicken. - Man, an out burger, baby. - I'm going across the street. - Yeah, well, we kind of already celebrate. We went to, we kind of redid our honeymoon. We went to Universal Studios in Orlando last month. And so we had that kind of, we like cash flowed that and did that before we even, you know. - Had made the last payment. - Exactly. So we did that, but yeah, we'll save up for a new car. My car's getting old and, you know, boost up everything. - Yes, how do that? - What are you driving? - I'm driving a 2008, like, it'll infinity SUV. It has 250,000 miles. - Yes. (laughing) - Why do you want a Ford Raptor? So that's next. - Okay, so that's great. So I want people to hear this. - How long is it gonna take you to save up for the Raptor? Now that you're debt free. - Eight months to 12 months, I would say. - Yeah, it would probably be a year. - Yeah, 'cause we'll let off the gas. We'll not work as much as Chick-fil-A, like we'll relax a little bit. But we'll get there eventually. - You say that until he once had Raptor a little early. (laughing) He's identified that he's driving a piece of crap. So that's good, yeah. - Yeah. - That's good. Obviously it'll be a used one, Dave. You know about these cars, or? - I've heard about them. I've heard about them. - Yeah, yeah. - Probably y'all, way to go guys, you rock stars. This is absolutely amazing. - It's very well done. Josh and Holly, Ramsey Solutions team members, and apparently Chick-fil-A team member. $175,000 paid off house, and everything at 27 years old, an 18 months of marriage. Man, don't tell me you can't do it when you're Gen Z. These guys are just going mic drop. Count it down, let's hear a debt free scream. - Three, two, one. We're debt free. (audience cheering) Man. Makes me proud he's working here. - Yeah. - What a sharp guy, man. - Oh, question. - We knew that already, but you put all that under, and all that foundation under it. My gosh. - And let me point out that when you marry someone that is aligned with you, financially, - And that is sharper than you? - Well, that's true, too. I wasn't going to say that part, but hey, that is really cool to see their values aligned and now look at 'em. - Boom. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Your personal and professional growth hinge on one skill more than anything else. It's communication. And we're excited about this new book, Stop Talking, Start Communicating that I did. It's now available for pre-order. The book unpacks the disc assessment, the DICC. And shows you the results of your test. So you get the test and the book. You can pre-order for $34.99. And $30 in pre-order bonus items, including the ebook and an additional assessment for your friend or your spouse. If you've never taken this, we use it inside the company here when we're hiring. And then we put the results on each person's wall. So when you walk up to the area that they're sitting in or into their office, you see how they think, whether they're a DIS or a C. And without going into the full teaching on it, I took the test, I think 40 years ago or so. And the first time I was in a volunteer thing at a church and the church said, hey, take this. And I read it, the results and I went, whoa, this read my mail. And so I came home, it's the first time I'd ever seen an assessment like this. I came home and I handed it to my wife and I said, look at this thing, this thing is amazing. And she read it and she said, "Uh-huh, that's what's wrong with you." No, that is me. Wait a minute. So there's a lot of ways you can assess and tell what the way people think and the way they take. None of them are perfect and none of them are a fix all. But if you know how someone is wired, it's easier to communicate with them. And if you think through for a minute, you'll know how they're wired. And this book will help you do that. Stop talking, start communicating. You can pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcasts, you can click the link in the subscription. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y.Refi, the defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Y.Refi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment to fix your budget. So you can get back to the baby steps and move forward. Go to Y.Refi.com/ramsey, that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com/ramsey might not be in all states. - Today's question comes from Kyle and Kentucky. My wife and I have been told by our financial planner that it's better to invest in the market than to pay off your mortgage. If the interest rate is less than your average rate of returning the market, he explained that market gains can be used to pay lump sums on the principle of your mortgage to pay off your home sooner that way. Is this the best course of action? Well, Kyle, I don't know if you've been listening to us for a while. If you have, you know our answer. If you haven't, there's a reason why Dave developed the baby steps many, many years ago because of the momentum and the strategy actually pays off because it's disciplined action. And so the answer is we disagree with your financial planner. That's a numbers game, it's a manipulations, fancy math, try to make you feel good to invest with the financial planner when the discipline of the old, Dave, you've used the adage so many times, the tortoise always beats the hair, right? The idea of just discipline action. And so, well then there's the other thing that the financial planner's math is just, it's not fancy, it's just wrong. - Yeah, right. - Okay, so if you make 10% on your investments and your mortgage is four or five percent, he's saying you make 6% difference and that you're gonna get out of debt faster. Well that's wrong. Because he left out a key mathematical figure in this equation. This equation is very naive and very primitive and very simplistic. If you did a sophisticated analysis of this, you would factor in risk and risk is not factored in here. You just took risk. You put money in the stock market, which is risk, you didn't pay off your mortgage, which is risk. And so if you take, if you adjust for risk and taxes, 'cause you do pay taxes by the way on that investment return. So those investment returns that you're gonna lump some and throw at this, they're taxable investment returns. So you didn't, he didn't adjust for taxes and he didn't adjust for risk. [BLANK_AUDIO] So your financial planner is full of crap. It's the problem. And it's typical financial planner. Too many of them are this naive, this primitive, this unsophisticated. And so when you adjust for risk in taxes, there is no benefit. And here's the way you know this in your heart, Kyle. Let's pretend your house was paid for. And your financial planner says, "Hey, you should go borrow $300,000 on your house and give it to me to invest in a good mutual fund. And I'll make $10, $11, $12% on it." And you can borrow that money at 3 or 4%. And you'll make the difference. It's exact same discussion mathematically. But when you say, "You want me to borrow on my paid for house?" You know what happens? Your heart jumps, which is where you measure risk. You do math in your head and you measure risk in your heart. And your heart skips a beat and goes, not just no, but hell no. I'm not borrowing on my house. It's paid for you, idiot. Why would I borrow on my house to invest with you? And it's the exact same equation. So when you reverse it that way, it makes you realize this guy's not playing with a full deck. He's not got all the parts of the math equation in there. So yeah, you need a new financial planner. This guy's more worried about what you invest with him than he is what you're gonna end up with at the end of the day. You're gonna end up with a lot more of the paid for house and increase cash flow that you can invest in good mutual funds, which is what I've done, what Ken has done, what all the Ramsey personalities have done, what millions of millions of people have done that became baby steps millionaires and they didn't have your financial planner. So you need one that can do math. You got left after the chat man, the arrogance of these guys. It's unbelievable. Tim is in New Jersey. Hey, Tim, what's up? - Hi, how you doing? - Good, how can we help? So I'm a baby step five now. So, and that's free. I do have a car lease. That's the only thing that I might. - Well then you're not in baby step five. You have dad on your car. - You're right. I have to question, I don't wanna if I should pay it off. But my main question is the reason why is because I would like to have a nice car, I can afford it. But if you can come out more money, it's gonna be a bigger headache for me to have to sell it and everything like that. And I don't have a big payment on it compared to what I make. But my main concern is my life is very concerned when it comes to spending. So we used to be really grow, like we had a lot of that. And I paid everything well. And. - No, you paid off everything about the car. - True. - Okay. - So let's say I pay off the car. I will pay off the car. I make enough for my wife to be able to spend nicely for like for stuff, personal stuff. I work at night as well. So I can really kind of work at night. - I'm charging. - So I make 170 after taxes roughly. So for you. - Good for you. - Good for you. Your car, good for you. And you have no dad except the car lease and you're paying it off good. Okay. And how much is it your wife has trouble spending? How much money? - Like any purchase, but it's like $250, $300 for a clothe or something like that. - Well, if you do a detailed budget, where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and she's in agreement with that budget, she'll be able to look at that budgeting, say, if I spend this $250 on some clothing, we still have the money for groceries. We still have the money for investing in retirement. We still have the money for X, Y, or Z. And as long as she knows she's okay, she can spend it. But when it's all discombobulated and it's just kind of swimming around in your head and you don't have a detailed plan, she doesn't know it's okay to spend it. When we were broke, Tim, Shannon, and I would go the grocery store and when we're buying groceries to feed our family, we wondered because we didn't have a budget, we didn't have a plan, we wondered if we just spent the money to keep the lights on at the house. So it was stressful to buy groceries. That's what your wife is experiencing. But once we had a plan, we said this much is for groceries, this much is for electricity, this much is for the house payment, and we have that plan laid out. Then when we spend money on groceries, we're not stressed because we know it's a part of an overall plan and we're gonna be okay. She needs to know she's gonna be okay if she spends this money mathematically. Yeah, and hang on a line, we're gonna give you Rachel's book. It's number one bestseller, know yourself, know your money. My guess is your wife's background, in other words, the environment. She grew up in plus her experience with money to this point, is shaping some of that fear. I think that book will help. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality, host of the front row seat show on the Ramsey Network. Josh is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Josh, how are you? - I'm great, David. It's a pleasure to talk to you. - You too, man, what's up? - So, how do you question, we're in okay shape financially, the wife and I. We have combined finances. And I've got some extra side hustle cash that I've got coming in. And usually, I just use that to play golf or vice and beer or do whatever. And no questions asked. But I wanna start surprising her, maybe with a trip here or there, just something that's a little bit more than just, you don't pay for it in cash. You might need a debit card, something like that. So, I guess my question is, without opening another account, what's the best way for me to go about doing that? Surprising for while also, make sure our finances stay together and have one place. - Yeah. What's your household income? Right now, we're worried about, you know, 140, 150, I would say. - How much debt have you all got? - Nothing but the house. - Good for you. - Well done. - Okay. - All right. - Well, I mean, you certainly can do whatever you wanna do. You're not doing a bad job, you're managing well. What Sharon and I have done and what we teach is, is that all monies are combined. Okay, now then that begs the question, how do you surprise Sharon with something? Okay, how do you surprise your wife with something? And if it's all in the budget, it's kind of boring. It's all, you know, surprise. There's your surprise fund, you know, and so, you know, the way it ends up working at our place, honestly, we do a lot of travel today, particularly. It's kind of one of our things we're doing at this stage of our life. And so, in my case, I've actually figured out my wife, does not like surprises. So that's a little different. But aside from that, she does not want to do all the detailed work of planning the trip. And so, we would have, in our case, you know, maybe a modified way of our thing into you would just be that, you know, you could have a surprised line item in the budget. This is money I'm sinking fund that is for me to surprise you with. And I'm gonna do different things. And I might buy a trip or I might buy you something else or whatever. And the fact that the money is in the budget is not a surprise, but the item or whatever I buy is going to be a surprise because it's a surprise, it's a surprise fund. That's what it's for. And you guys are grown-ups, you're not four years old, so, you know, that probably will work good enough. If she has to be like tricked into thinking you have money you don't have, that one I'm not good with that idea. It's not, it's not about tricking her. I know, but I'm just saying, you know, you got to hide it from her, so she's surprised, is that. Well, is the surprise when you reveal that you have booked the trip or the surprise when you just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." What level are we talking about? Well, I mean, you know, it gets, be nice to, you know, and I don't think we'd get as far as because we, you know, a child and all that, it's like, we can't, I can't just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." But it'd be nice to have something booked a few months out and then go to her a couple weeks in advance and say, "Hey, you know, that pre weekend that we have, it's not pretty because we got something booked." That's great. You can do it. Yeah, you can do that with an anonymous category. We can name it whatever we want to name it. Anonymous trips or surprise trips or surprise, for this, I like doing this for you as husband to wife. And so I'm going to put it in the budget. Yeah, I know we're going to give it a name. I don't care what it is. I mean, we have so many friends like, you know, we've talked about it, Sam and Jade, Orshah. I mean, Sam, we talked about on the show recently. Sam, they put money in their budget away for each other and it's just, this is Jade's fun category. It's his fun category. Well, Sam never spins his and he just stacks and stacks and stacks and he does something really awesome. So you could do it that way too, where as long as it's in the budget, we're communicating. And it's like, this is the old blow out of the loop is what this is. And if it stacks up, then you can surprise her with that. So there's a lot of ways to do it, but I'm always putting side hustle money in the budget. Oh, yeah, period. I'm not gonna run it as a side. No, I'm saying it's I'm just saying I know I know I'm just about what he was doing. I'm gonna do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, but it's you know It's certainly up to you Josh. It's a it's a just you know and Again, we've been married 43 almost 44 years and so There's very little the surprise right that is a different deal. I agree It's like she's not for yeah, it's not like you know It's hard to surprise them even for like a birthday party So this woman what about like gift to share and tell you what she wants for her birthday or do you surprise her with that? I surprise her with that. Yeah, and most of the stuff that we do on a trip I mean I'm she may know the location right and the date right but most everything else she's like yeah, surprise me Oh, that's okay, so she wakes up and you're like here's the agenda. Here's what we're doing. Yeah, it's great Here's the plan. That's right up there. No, I got a plan. Oh believe me from sun up to sundown through the acueless But it's fun Jack is in New York City. Hey Jack. What's up? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call sure how can we help? So about three years ago I took out a SBA 7a long to purchase specialty coffee roasting business And now that I'm about three years into this long there's about a hundred grand left It's a 9.75% interest rate and I feel like I'm finally catching my breath a little bit with this So I'm trying to figure out where I should start putting any extra money I have Catching your breath meaning you're just not profitable Yeah So what kind of profit are we expecting in the coming 12 months? It's about 20% of our revenue our revenue last year was 660,000 and we're projected to do about a million this year. Okay, she may make 200 grand and is this a side hustle or is this your full-time gig? Full-time gig, okay, and So what are you all living on what's your what's it take for you all to live out of this? Yeah, so Last year we brought home about 77,000 dollars and you lived on that. There's your wife work outside of this No, okay, so you lived on 80 grand last year About yeah, so if you made 200 and you lived on 80 grand this year you could pay off alone Yeah, yeah, 200 minus 80s 120 the loans 100 right? Right, okay So do that why not why would you keep this loan around it's not a pet? Yeah, yeah, no, I get what you're saying it's Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So hold on way that really quick with what you were thinking about doing What were you what were you thinking of? Well, we're actually looking to move into a new space the spot that we're in right now is very small And that's obviously gonna be another expense. It's gonna cost about 60 grand to get the new space billed out So what I was actually thinking was Potentially refinancing this loan because the interest rate is so high I could get six and a half percent if I were to say to take out another hundred and fifty thousand dollar loan and that I have $50,000 of capital to put towards the build out and then the more the more debt that you have in business the more unstable and Unsustainable you are The less debt you have the more sustainable you are so I would go with everything you're talking about doing only I would just pay off the loan first and then I would cash flow the move And wait do you feel how easy it is to breathe then yeah, and if you got this move completely cash flowed and you've expanded Now you're making 300 grand and you got no payments in the world and we're what 24 months 36 months from now It's a lot better place to be in business. It's too volatile out there, man [Music] It's that time again folks tax season is here I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes But here's a better idea if your tax situation is complicated get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today That way they can take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible But don't wait Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast go to Ramsey Solutions dot com slash tax pro to find one who serves your area with Excellence that's Ramsey Solutions dot com slash tax pro [Music] If you're working the baby steps the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar It's more than just a budgeting app. It is now the whole plan the Ramsey plan built right in You track your progress you get personalized recommendations and coaching for your Situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day Showing you the next right step and holding you accountable start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store or Google play Adam is in Seattle. Hey Adam. What's up? Hi, Dave. Um, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it So I just feel lost in life, you know, um, I am 26 years old I have no degree. Um, I'm unemployed and Um, I haven't been able to hold out a job since I graduated high school. Um, I've had 10 jobs and Yeah, yeah, what is your assessment and give me a single one or two words at most Well, what has kept you from holding down these jobs? What is it? I just water a lot of um I think it was learned homelessness and then also just a lot of anxiety and Did you self did you self sabotage? Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah, okay, so what's it what's it the core and again don't worry about how you word it just be as gut level on us as you can What do you think is it the core of all this anxiety the sphere of this worry? It's it's my fault. It You know, I took ownership of it um, I just don't know how to move forward so yeah Well, the first way to move forward is to realize that you're not a failure And I think it would make a lot of sense for somebody in your shoes at 26 who's never had anything stick doesn't feel like you've had much stick in your life. Is that a fair assessment? Things haven't even it hasn't been sticking and yeah I think it's just the the steering die um that I have and I am I am in therapy for okay For that so are you making progress do you feel like you're making progress in therapy? I want to move that yeah, so I'm gonna tell you right now instead of this big philosophical and big strategy answer I think you just need a win and I think you need to redefine what winning looks like and I think winning if I were gonna Prescribe something to you is go get a job and go get the hardest job you can get I mean that I don't mean something that pays you very little. I mean hard working maybe some manual labor working the trades and and have one clear win And that is I'm gonna keep showing up I'm not going I'm not a screw up therefore. I'm not gonna screw up and I got one thing I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna keep a clean nose. I'm gonna do it. They tell me I'm gonna learn I'm gonna learn how to do more. I'm gonna be hungry and I'm gonna keep showing up and I'm gonna put one month two months and three months And I while you're getting this therapy I think you need to do something really really hard Because I think you need to prove to yourself that you've got grit and it's you're actually tough and that you're not a victim But I want to bring Dave and because I know he's got some great insight on this too But I'm trying to simplify for him to get him a win Dave. Where's your family? Um So I I I am with um the relative of mine. I live in the relative of mine and um What relative uncle and brother sister what? Yeah, um uncle. Okay. Where's your mom and dad? Um Physically where are they located? They're located like in in the same city. It's just where You know I've been old and I haven't been able to get sun so um Yeah, I'm not I don't really talk to my mom um much but yeah What did you call for today? What did you what did you want from from from Dave and I? I just feel like a lost in life and I like because I'm 26 and Um, you know, I have no - I'm just trying to. - No, listen, I can tell you right now, you're so ashamed of yourself. You are just covered in shame. So Dave and I aren't therapists. I'm glad you're with a therapist. I cannot preach that enough. Do the hard work. Keep digging in. Don't stop that. But I'm gonna go back to what I think. I think instead of. I don't think someone who's in your state of mind can have great clarity. But I'm gonna give you a resource. I'm gonna give you my book, Find the Work Your Wire, to do it. I'm gonna give you my book, Find the Work Your Wire, to do. I want you to take the assessment, but I'm gonna caution you that I think you're so down on yourself and you are so loaded down with shame that I think you're gonna have to do a few little things at a time to build up a belief in yourself. And that's why I'm prescribing hard work. I mean like brick crew working on a construction site to where your body aches all day and you just get some confidence to go, I'm showing up doing the hardest work possible. I really believe that's what you ought to try. Try it for 90 days and get that back stiffened up to say, I just did the hardest work on a planet for 18, 20, 22, 25 bucks an hour hard work, work two jobs. Don't do anything but work and stack up some cash for the whole purpose of beginning to believe that you're not an utter failure. That's what I think you ought to do. - Yeah, so this is a real hard assignment. Get a job doing anything that's tough and show up every single day and work your butt off. You can do that. You can do that. - I'd like to build to build a good job. - And stop partying. - Yeah. - Build some grit. - You're partying your butt off, aren't you? - Yeah. - Yeah. That's gotta stop. You're telling yourself, man. Yeah, okay. It's dripping off of you. So if I was you, I'd plug into a great church and get some men that are walking with God, that are clean, they're sober. And they'll walk alongside you, put their arm around your shoulder and kick your little butt and get you in a job and hold you accountable for staying clean and working your butt off. And you gotta get a community that's different. The community you're running in is a bunch of losers. - Amen. - And you're gonna become who you're hanging around with. So you need to change who you're hanging around with. - Yeah. - And you're gonna, yeah, that's a mess. So yeah, the thing is, Ken's prescription, I think is exactly right. You need some wins. You need some confidence and some dignity. But that means you gotta walk away from the stuff that's been taken in it from you. - Yeah. - And that's the partying. And the reason you're not showing up at work is you're hung over, you're strung out. You can't wait for happy hour. Can't wait for a smoke another joint while I'm on the job. On course, you're getting your butt fired. No kidding. You can't pass a drug test. And so that's what's going on. I mean, so you step in there and you stay clean, dude. And I'm telling you, get a whole new crew to run with. Get into a good church. And as far as asking about family. And so the reason your family is upset with you is not because you're a bad son. It's 'cause they love you and they hate watching you destroy yourself with your bad habits. That's why they're not mad at you. That they love you. And they can't stand watching you kill yourself. So I would just walk away from that stuff and go completely clean. And just let's go for a whole new direction. I mean, we're going from drunk to monk right now, man. I mean, game on. Time to make a move, right? You gotta make a shift here. And if you do something radical like that for 90 days, you can do all kinds of stuff. - That's absolutely right. - Absolutely right. And I can't see this enough. At some point after the 90 days, I want you to do something that you're afraid of doing. - Yeah. - Something that you're afraid of. That's like really a stretch. I don't mean something stupid financially. I just mean something you're afraid of. - Which right now is everything. - It is. But I cannot tell you how much hard work we'll do for the soul. - Oh yeah. - You know, we're, and by the way, you're only gold by the way, is stack as much cash as you can in the 90 days. - Stay in clean. - Yeah, get a goal. - Stay in clean. - I think you can do this Adam. - I know you can. - I really don't think it's as bad as your brain has told you it is. But yeah, you got to walk away from some stuff and towards some new stuff. If you want a different recipe, if you want a different thing, you got to change the recipe. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12 stepers say. And they're quoting Einstein, by the way. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. (upbeat music) - In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, Brandon Ray and his wife Madison to do a debt-free scream. Welcome guys. - Hey, how's it going? - Good man, how are y'all? - Doing well. - Cool. - So how much debt have you two paid off? - 118,000. - Wow, and how long did that take? - Four years. - Good for you. And you've been here about four years, right? - Yes. - Okay, tell folks what you do here at Ramsey. - Software engineer, untrusted? - All right. And so if you're getting a tax, getting help from a tax pro or real estate agent, it's very likely that Brandon Ray might have written the code. - Sure. - That caused you to be able to do that. So that's how it works. Now, way to go guys. Well congratulations. What kind of debt was 118,000? - So we had two cars, student loans, four credit cards. We also owed some family some money. So. - You were normal? - Normal, yeah. - How long you two been married? - Almost 10 years. - Okay. So where did you move from somewhere to come here four years ago? - No, we're from here. - You're from here? - Yeah. - Okay. And so you joined the Ramsey thing and around here, the peer pressure's all positive to get you out of debt. It's the opposite of most places. - Yes. - Like, it's kind of over the top. It's like a cult or something. - Yes. - So yeah. - Yeah. - So we're pushing you, 'cause we love you to get out of debt. Everybody in the whole team's cheering you on, right? - Yes. - And so you didn't have a choice hardly, but to get on the plan, right? - Exactly, yeah. - Okay. And so Madison, did you know what your husband was getting into when he joined this place? - No. (laughing) - No, I didn't know we were joining a cult. But it's okay. It's the good kind of cult. - It's a good one. There's good ones, there's bad ones. We're one of the good ones, yeah. That's awesome. So you guys decided about the time you can work here. Okay, we're gonna attack this debt. - Yeah, I was kind of a little bit before that. It was like, hey, I've been, well, I'll go back a little bit. My mom actually introduced us to you when I was like a little kid. We were listening to you and Susie Orman, and we were doing all sorts of stuff there. And she introduced me to like the envelope system and all sorts of stuff. But like a kid, you know, I didn't listen to any of it until well into our marriage. - Yeah. - And I was like, hey, you know, - And by then you're normal, you got all this debt. And I'm like, oh crap, we're starting to have kids and things are starting to stack up. And we need some room. And then I was already starting to look into the baby steps and then I was like, hey, I really wanna work here too. So that kind of went hand in hand. - Okay. - Yeah. - All right, so Madison, how did you play into this story? - He suggested and I followed. - Was that, that's simple, huh? - Yeah, I love my husband. - Could you teach a class on that, please? (laughing) - I mean, why? - I mean, why? - So no questions at all, no struggles with it. You just were like, okay. - Well, I did a little bit of kicking and screaming. - Oh, okay. - When he told me I had to stop ordering the cheese dip at the Mexican restaurant, I got a little frustrated, but-- - Yeah, 'cause she's more of a dreamer and I'm more of a realist. So it's like, she comes with me with dreams and I'm like, there's no room in the budget. So we need to like do some work to make those-- - Dreamer and Dream Killer. - Yeah. - And apparently, Keso Killer is well. - Keso Killer. - Whoa, that's worse than Dream Killer. - Wow, it is. - Hey, but we're dead free so we could have this. - Yeah, no, we can get the cheese butt in. - Now we got it. - Okay, so what do y'all tell people the secret to getting out of dead is 118,000 in four years. So you did like $25,000, $30,000 a year, right? - Yeah, that's pretty substantial. - It's doing lots of late nights. I did two side jobs to make that happen. So it was a lot, and you gave up a lot 'cause you had to like get the kids to bed, do different things. It was a lot of sacrifice. - Keso. - And Keso. - A lot of missed out cases. - So there was just a lot of sacrifice, there's a lot of late nights. A lot of coming here, eating beans and rice, the taco bar looks really good on Tuesday, but lots of beans and rice. - Wait a lot of beans. - Lots and lots and lots, yes. - Yes. - So that was probably the heart. The hardest part too is like giving up time with the kids, giving up time with family at night, and giving up just, we like food. So, what if we just get worth it now that you're free? - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - How's it feel now that you don't have any dead except the house? - It was weird at first, 'cause it's like, oh, is it over? Is it actually over? - It doesn't feel real yet. - And then yeah, it's still kind of getting to that real part, but it's like, hey, wait a second. We can actually, the kids wanna go do something, we can do it, right? It's not a no immediately, it's like, yes, we can go do that. I forgot who works here, you know it, you've lived it, you've done it now. What do you say to people that this is the key to winning on this debt-free journey? - Well, you got yourself into it, you gotta get yourself out of it, just do it. Put in the work, get it done. - Love that. What about you, Madison? What do you say the secret to getting out of debt is? - A lot of patience and a lot of trusting your partner. A lot, there has to be good communication between both of you about where your money's going, all those random subscriptions that you forget you have, you have to be canceled. - Exactly. - Yeah, yeah, it's a constant thing. Why do you go, guys, I'm so proud of you. So proud of you, I know your parents are proud of you. Try to get you to do this 20 years ago, now you're really doing it, that's good, now that's good, it's very good, very good. Well, congratulations, y'all, congratulations. And thanks for being on the team, we appreciate it. And when the Taco bar's open, you get all the case show you won, okay? (laughing) Okay, and it's your birthday. - Yes. - No way. Well, happy birthday. Very nice. - It's quite the present. - Yeah. - Yeah. - How are we celebrating tonight? - We're going to ice cream after this. - Wow. - There we go. - There we go, that's good. - Two scoops, two scoops are okay today. - Yeah, there we go. - Maybe a waffle coat. - Oh, easy one, oh, how crazy. - Let's go crazy. - That's it, I like it, very well done. - All right, Brandon and Madison from the Ramsey Solutions team, living right here in Nashville, $118,000 paid off in four years. Oh, what are the kiddos names and ages? - We got Beckett, he's five, Cecilia's seven, and Adeline is five months. - Oh, perfect, very cool. And they look like they've been practicing their debt free screen. - Oh, yes. - So they're y'all ready to do your debt free screen? Are you ready, Adela? - Can I do it? - Ready to do it. - All right, count it down. Let's hear it debt free screen. Three, two, one. - One, we're debt free. - Yeah. (audience cheering) - Woo-hoo-hoo. - That's how it's done. - Wow, man, that is fabulous. Congratulations, you guys. Well, and the teams out here cheering them on. - Yeah, it's fun. - It's a good news about the team here. They love each other, and they're always praying for each other, helping each other. You know, passing on tips and encouragement, and everything else versus tearing you down. And it's one of the beauties of the culture at Ramsey. I'm real proud of our team. And how many of them came out. You can see them if you're watching on the YouTube man. That's a huge number of people come out to cheer them on. So very cool stuff. And it isn't interesting that you can grow up right here in the shadow almost of this building. - Yeah. - And mom telling you to do this stuff, and then you look up in your $118,000 debt and you're married. And we've been married five years, and oh, this is not working. And oh, I gotta do it too. And then joins our team four years ago, and actually applies the stuff and goes crazy. So the interesting thing is with all this stuff, it's just a matter of a decision or three. To decide, I'm not gonna do that anymore. I am gonna do this. I'm not gonna do that. I am gonna do this. And this is, I'm identifying what works, what doesn't work, and I'm gonna plug into what works. I'm gonna walk away from the things that don't work. And this, you know, using these credit cards to get my airline miles, bull crap. You know, I'm not paying attention to what we're spending at restaurants. I'm not paying attention. And then all of a sudden, boom, it gets serious. And everybody turns their life around. - You know, it's interesting, when I asked Brandon the key to get out of debt, he said, you got yourself into this. Now you gotta get yourself out. Really ties into our last call that young man who had done some things where he created all the shame and guilt, and he's telling us multiple times he's lost. And it's very similar to people that feel lost financially, because they just do what the culture kind of tells them is normal to do, and they wake up one day, and they feel lost, stuck financially. And the advice is so great. You got yourself in it, you gotta get yourself out. There's a lot of empowerment there. So great message to a lot of you that are new to the show and are a lot of debt, and you're just feeling like this is a pipe dream, it's really not. It's that simple, that mindset, and the crazy discipline that you heard there. So you can do it. - Larry Burkett used to say a take ship by as long to get out as it did to get in. So if you spend three years making the mess, take ship by three years. - Interesting. - And my experience has been different than Larry's. - Yeah, I think maybe because we got the whole gazelle intensity thing going, it's roughly about half. - Mm-hmm. - So you figure if it took you five years to make the mess, it probably gonna take you two and a half to get out of intensity. And so how quick do you clean up the mess? In their case, they cleaned it up in four years, took them about six years to make the mess. - Yep. - They've been married 10. So that's how it worked out. Very interesting. - Proud of you guys, well done. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we wanna see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers. That's ramseysolutions.com/careers. (upbeat music) - Our scripture today, Hebrews 10, 23 and 24, let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess for he who promised his faithful and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. John F. Kennedy said, "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." (laughing) - Yeah, that's really good. Ouch. (groaning) Ronnie is in San Jose. Hey Ronnie, what's up? - Hi, thank you for taking my call. I've been listening for you guys for years. - Well thank you. - And I would appreciate your words if we've been. So I'm gonna be 59 in July and I'm trying to think how I'm gonna retire. I'm working right now part time as a teacher. And I own my house, but I don't think I can maintain the house here in California. I have a little farm and there's always something happening, you know, the septic system and then the well is going bad. So every time there's something else, so I'm not sure I can keep this house for retirement. And I was thinking to renovate it. I don't have enough cash to renovate the house and I was offered to take a hillock and by listening for you for so many years, I know that you guys are not pro-hillock or taking any loans. So at this point, I just don't know what to do. What's the best way to go? - What do you think you're not doing? - I'm thinking to move to a different state. So either Nevada or Arizona or somewhere I can old, it's too expensive here. There's no way we can stay here with the taxes and everything else. It's just crazy. - Well, we are you married? - I'm not married, I'm single. Right now my son lives with me and my daughter is gonna finish his studying and it's gonna move out. But right now he's still with me. Yeah, I'm sure about moving to a different state because I don't see there's no way I can retire where I am. - So what is your property worth? - My property is about 1.6. - Okay, well that'll buy a nice property in another place for sure. - Yeah, but I still need to leave me some nestings for retirement because I don't have, except the house and I have some money markets. - How much do you have in a money market? - Right now it's still collecting, but it's about 600. - Mm-hmm, okay. So if you sold your property, I'm just thinking about the math only, not the emotions, but if you sold your property for a million six and you bought a property in another location for 600,000 and you paid cash. - Mm-hmm. - And that will give you a million dollars to invest for your nest egg. How would that sound? - Yeah, I am not sure, I'm only 59. - Yeah? - I'm not sure it's gonna take me all the way, if I, you know, if I don't take you all the way. You don't make $100,000 a year now, do you? - I am definitely not doing $100,000, you know. - What do you do? - No. - Should a teacher. - A teacher. - I'm a teacher, but part time, yeah. - So what do you make? - What do you make? - Or are you just working part time? - You know, I've been, I've been working. for so many years full time and I want to do other stuff so I'm working part time. How much does it take for you to? Yeah, I think like now about $5500 per month. Yeah, how much does it take for you to live? $3,000. Okay. So you can work part time as a teacher somewhere else. So if you had a paid four house in another market and you put a million dollars or whatever, $800,000 in a good investment and you're working part time from $59 to $69,000, you being great shape, wouldn't you? Yeah, but I don't want to work $69,000. I mean, you're going to have to make some money somewhere. Yeah, I think you're planning to work. It's just you're just going to have to be limited on what you spend on the property that you're going to move into in the next state. Yeah, I mean, look, if any, if the whole place is your oyster, if you can go anywhere, then I would go to a state that has no state income tax. I'd go to a place where I could buy something that's more than enough room and the $350,000 range and up to $600,000. I mean, up to six, but I'm saying you don't have to spend six and invest the rest of that. That's going to that's going to do fantastic for you. It's going to double every seven years and you're going to be fine. Yeah, just don't touch that in this day and let it grow and you continue to do a little work. It won't kill you. You're not dying. You're 59. It's not like you're 89. And so, yeah, there's a lot of stuff you can do here. But yeah, I got a feeling though that it's very emotional for you to leave that farm and leave California after all these years. And so the math says to do what you're doing. But then you've got to decide if that's where you want to live and the next place, whether it's Idaho or Nevada or Arizona, wherever you're going. You need to go house shopping over there, any buy an airline ticket and go over there and look at houses and start talking about where will they accept your teaching credentials so that you can teach part time over there, create some income, and then sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor and sit down with one of them and say, "Gosh, if I put $800,000, $1 million with you, what kind of income would that generate for me to live on in my retirement years if I pay cash for a five or six hundred thousand, four hundred thousand other house?" You got some taxes on this probably too. I don't know what you paid for that property, what your base is. But either way, that still, that all makes a lot of sense. But I also have a sense that you're kind of stuck there emotionally. And you're going to have to unstick and that's kind of the process you're going through right now. I'm going, "This is smart. It's going to make me sad though to leave this farm after all these years. It's going to make me sad to leave California after all these years, but their taxes and the cost of living is driving me out." And it's sad, but that's a reality and people do it all the time. As a matter of fact, people have left California and New York and Chicago at record rates and have navigated to low-tech states. In the past eight years, like never before in the history of the US, pretty crazy. It's like a reverse gold rush. In the old days, there was all this migration to California in the 1800s, right? The gold, the famous gold rush. And now it's like a reverse thing. They're running away from running back to the gold, which is no longer there apparently. Or if it is, the government takes it. So that's that. That's what's happening. Nicole is in Boise. Hi Nicole. How are you? Hi. How are you? What's up? I'm trying to figure out if my ask tonight husband is one real assistant to reasonable right now. Financial. I'll spit it out for a run out of time. What is it? So we I'm trying to figure out of what we're doing is not working and we need a parent home with our three kids. I just don't know. I I after paying for daycare for the three kids, we my income $1,500 a month. I don't know if it's realist that to ask him or if we can even financially afford for me to. Can you live on his income if you didn't have a daycare bill? We're $500 a month short. Okay. What do you do for a living? I do finance right now. I am finishing my master's. I am done next month with my masters and you got to stay home with three kids. Yeah. Well, the goal is to work remote from home teaching at an online school. Why would that not make more than $500? It would. Okay. The problem is is that that wouldn't start until July without a paycheck until August. We have a $1,000 free day fund right now and that's it. We don't have car payments but we do have a little debt and basically my last day of work is in April. Oh, you already quit? No. They need a full-time person. I cannot do full-time any longer. And so I had to step back because of medical issues with my son. You already quit. You already quit. Yeah. Okay. And so you got to find some way to stop gap the bit the difference between now and August, right? Yeah. So how many hours extra is he going to work to cover that? He has offered to work one to two extra days a week. He don't have a choice. Somebody's got to feed your family. You all just made a decision. You just quit your job to go be with the kid that's sick, but you don't blame me. That sounds like the right thing to do. So you just got to find a stop gap and then you can make it work from there. That puts us out of the Rams is showing the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.