Dominique Wilkins: “We Didn’t Like Each Other” – Inside the NBA’s Most Ruthless Era

This is Expeditionally. I am till T.I. am. Uh-huh. Now, the following experience is not a test. The conversations and stories expressed on this podcast are meant to be an expression of purpose and true love. This show, proper man fire, is Expeditionally. There's a free exchange of ideas and opinions, no judgment, no preconceived beliefs, no fear. You're encouraged to share your thoughts and ask any question as long as it's done with your spirit. And that's through true love and respect for others that we would change the world to speak truth to power for sure at the time. Now without further ado, this is Expeditionally. I'm till T.I. am. Hey, what's happening, man? I'm till Paris, your host of Expeditionally. On this episode today on Expeditionally, we welcome him in Atlanta Legend. He's a Hall of Famer, a nine-time NBA All-Star and one of the most dominant scorers of his era. Over a legendary career, he helped define the Atlanta Hawks franchise and became one of the league's most recognizable stars. Knowing worldwide as the human highlight fan, he combined athleticism, skill, competitiveness, delivering, he delivered some of the most unforgettable dunks and performances in the golden era of the NBA. Beyond his playing career, he continues to impact the game as the vice president of basketball and special adviser to the CEO for the Atlanta House. He's a businessman, sports analyst, mentor, philanthropist, remaining deeply connected to the sport and the city of Atlanta. He recently received a humanitarian award from Governor Kemp in recognition of his leadership and dedication to serving others. I want y'all to please give a expeditionally welcome to the NBA Legend and one of the games all-time greats, Dominique Wilkins. I appreciate you, man. Go on, we'll get to see you. Yes, sir. Man, thank you so much. Yeah, good. How you been? Man, I'm chilling, man. Thank you so much for joining the show. You, you had such an incredible impact to the game. Tell me what was your driving motivation? You know what, it started for me a very early age. Take it to me. Growing up in Baltimore, Maryland. It was a playground legend who kind of took me on this wing when I was 12. What was his name? His name was, they used to call him Big, Big Harold, but he was like, tough as a guy in neighborhood. Nobody mess with me. Oh, you know, he was gangster at Cooke-Hoop. And he saw something, man. I mean, again, saw something I didn't see. He saw some of the boys club every day because there was a boys club back there. Wasn't the boys and girls club that I far would go back. And I should go to every day and he used to teach me how to play the game back. He said, and what I'm teaching you, you're going to owe me. He said, but not like you think. The only thing I want from you, you give to someone. And the one thing he taught me, never have fear. And always give it my best, work hard, and having believed in myself. He said, don't let anybody ever take anything from me. Right. And that stuck with me very early. So, you know, being with the toughest guy in neighborhood, him teaching me the game and playing. I didn't have fear. Right. And so it gave me the courage to leave home when I was 16. I got discovered on the playground today, another whole city. You left home from Baltimore at the age of 16. And what made North Carolina your choice? Well, first of all, both my parents, all their families from North Carolina. But, you know, we went close. So, I didn't know why I was there when I got there. Because-- Little Washington. I was right outside of Greenville. Okay. And I caught a Graham bus, and I got off the bus, saw these guys pulling the ball, and I said, I'm going to go and play with these guys. So, after I finished playing, I'm sitting on the ground. This old guy came in. He said, you live here. I'm not sure yet. He said, where are you going to live? I'm not. No. You looked at me, said, come and go with me. I don't know why I went away. And he took me to the house, showed me the bedroom, showed me the kitchen. You can have all this trade-off. You have to play for my high school. He was the high school coach. Wow. Yeah. And looked around and said, okay. What was his name? Dave Smith. Dave Smith. He passed the year they put my statue. Wow. Up down. That's the year he passed. Matter of fact, black man. Before that black man. Dave Smith. We were 76 and 1 in 3 years. Wow. Back to the back. And you was like, what, a sophomore at the time? I was sophomore. Okay. We were really, I mean, good as I understand. Nobody could beat him. Anybody else from your high school team? Did they make it to the league? Well, you know, no. A couple of should have, like, had a guy in an average Roger's. When I came to high school, I wouldn't have played. Right. It was an average Roger's. He was a man amongst boys. Okay. 69 athletic. 69. Yeah. I heard a low hurdle champion shot put this because of him. He was actually. Right. And then, uh, but Dave didn't accept me right away. Uh, so I had to make a statement. So first day of practice. Hit the back. Remember, I went and caught it. And it was quiet. Two seconds. Kuzn. Mine said, well, I think he going to be alright. So I kind of broke down. I crossed the bed. Came across my mind. I'm looking in the ring. Yeah. And, uh, that kind of broke the ice. And so I was and I, we got closer. It took us all. We still had tension. Right. But as my game developed, I ultimately became the best player. Uh, for the high school. But it was here and I who really, you know, put differences. I, you know, for the betterment of the team. And we won. We won a lot because we won lost one game a sophomore year. Kuzn, if you stick, we stick together for the next two years. We won't lose another game. We like it. Okay. So two state championships. Two back to back. But we won 56 in a row. Wow. Next year. Uh, so, so now you, you, uh, you went to. I went to, uh, uh, Georgia. And as a UGA fan, you know, go dogs. Uh, uh, was, was, was, was you, was Georgia the top pick for you? Was that the number one choice for you? No. Actually, I signed a letter of intent with North Carolina State. Uh, come, you know, if you're a great player in the state of North Carolina. And those days, you don't leave days against the law. So when, uh, after I signed the letter of intent, North Carolina State, um, come, you know, I, I just had to go there with Earl Bailey, Wittenberg and Lowe. And they ended up winning the national championship two years later. How to stay there. Oh, who knows what would happen. Right. But, um, Georgia came out of nowhere. And Georgia came to my home in North Carolina. And they just made it worth my wife. You know what I'm saying? I can do it. You, you would still stand with, you would still stand with the coach. Well, actually, they had moved me into my mom and two kind of, kind of, kind of low income housing. Got it. My family caught back up with me, like, uh, eight months later. Okay. And moved to North Carolina. But I was already established in my coach. So we had to be bedroom. Mm-hmm. Kind of low income housing home that my whole family didn't write up. And we were there until I left there. But Georgia just, it was something, put it away. There was the only place I would felt like I had a home. Um, Georgia. So that was the starting factor. Plus, we came in with five other high school Americans at the same time. Man. Uh, I've heard you say that, you know, I've heard you say that you owe a lot to Georgia. Uh, and you credited Georgia for changing your life. Uh, how proud were you to go from UGA to come to the Hawks and play for all this? You know, like it's a coming to Georgia with the first time I felt like home. And I tell you they embraced me and took every pressure. The story I had away when I came there. And I wanted to go four years. Coach had to tell me, it's nothing else you can do here. You got to go. He said, I don't want to be the one to hold you back. Because you know, back in those days, guys didn't come out after the first year. Right. The league was wrong, man. Right. And so all of us like James Worthy, Terry, all of us was three year college players. Some of us. Four year college players. Right. So I never thought I would be in Atlanta. You know, when I got drafted. And right before I got, I was told I was going, if I come out, I was going to be a Laker. To me, the number one pick, but Mitch Cupcheck got hurt. At the time was powerful. So they had to play both though. It was really the whole time between me and James Worthy. Okay. Go one or three. And so I knew if I didn't go one or three. But it worked out for both of Worthy, who was a wonderful player. I have a lot of respect for. Absolutely. And so it worked out for both of us. I was praying when I got drafted by Utah. That I got treated. So I didn't know that. So it was drafted to the jazz. I was drafted to the jazz. But I said, I ain't going. You're my statement. I'm not playing powerful. They wanted me to play powerful. I'm okay. I'm two or five soaking wet. Yeah. So I used to. So who was so wait a minute. So if you, if you were to play powerful there, you would have played a low side car. Malone. No, actually, it's been Adrian Danley. Okay. They were going to play him that small for me. I said not. Okay. But they didn't happen. And but great thing. Father stayed there the next year, stocking him. Starting him alone would have been that. Yeah. That would have been so. But it worked out for me because I should tour with Magic before the season started. And all the best players in the league played in some of basketball. Yeah. It was getting 45, 50 a game in those games. So Magic kind of helped, you know, push that trade for me to come to Atlanta. When I thought when I found out I was going to Atlanta, I was dancing. I feel the hallway. But now to tell, tell me about Atlanta, your, your rookie year. I'm talking about the city. Mm-hmm. the franchise, what do you remember first, your first impression of the city in the franchise? Well, the city I loved, because you know, being three of the college, I lived in Atlanta and some of them always came home, because I called Atlanta, and so Atlanta was a fun city back then. And what, you know, this was, this was, I came 79. You came 79? Yeah, I came too. I came 79. That's when you had all the one club, I don't know if I can't want to roll it, remember you had Mr. B, yeah, so you had all those things and that's when you got, we weren't supposed to be in it, but we, you know, we found the way to sneak in, it was, yeah, and it was, it was all on one street, where you had a lot of those clubs back in those days. Atlanta was a, was a party city, it was fun, yeah, and how you get some work done back then in those days, man, how you get anything done? Yeah, you found a way. You found a way, you know, the thing is, you know, we love the culture. Back then. And Magistrate was still around. Oh, yes. Magistrate, Bruce Lane. It was all still here. All of them was still there. You know, people think that these clubs, they've been around 10, 15 years, they've been around for ever. Yeah, all of them. And so they, the matter of fact, they were here before I got here, you know, and so they always been kind of a landmark in the city. And so I don't think any other city across the country did it like Atlanta, and I've been all over. Right. And so it lent for me because they embraced me when I, when I came to Atlanta, the King family, Vayner Jacks, Andrew Young, right, all these people embraced me, right, and they welcomed me into the city. Mm-hmm. And so I felt like I was home because they said, look, you know, we appreciate what you've done at Georgia, and we want to make you feel at home here. Right. That's why I played, I played for people, I played for myself, I played for them, and I wanted to show the city, I'm more than just a basketball player, not just a gamer of the city as well. Right. And so that was the thing I hung my head on the most, basketball was easy, okay, but coming to you, I've become a young man, it's the hardest game for a lot of young guys. If you can master becoming a young man for a second, you know, you put yourself ahead of the game, and you gain respect for people who support you. Right on. Was there a camaraderie between, you know, yourself and all of the other superstars in the city at the time, like Dianne Sanders, Andre Reyes, and so on and so forth? Well, who was the, who I was the closest to as far as the guy from another sport with Dianne? Dianne, yeah. Dianne and I did a lot of stuff together, you know, we-- In the club, 21 together, we also did, you know, salons together, that we put our number and likeness on. So, Dianne, I was very close. We still. Pretty tight. Yeah. So he was the guy with, you know, most of the Terry Penon 10, all those guys, David Justice. David Justice. But all of us was pretty close. Oldest Nixon. Yeah, oldest Nixon. Yeah. So I can go down the line with a lot of the guys who were hearing of the sports that was great guy. Yeah. Great guy. You know, like, like the, like the rappers are now. Very cool. It was a family. Yeah. It was a family, you know. And I kind of saw the rise of all you young guys coming up, man, taking over city, you know, being that next generation. So it was nice to see how the city continued for grass and become part of the, and really a household name in the country. And when you, people talk about Atlanta, you know, people always talk about how fun Atlanta is. Right. I tell you, Atlanta. Oh shit. It's great to see you in the city. It would be the greatest city. Oh shit, man. Yeah. We'll be here on the scale. Yeah. We have to be too much for it. Yeah. Y'all be out of control, man. I'm too old. I don't know now. You can still dump me. I gotta say that. I got the message. Yeah, I got the message. Yeah. Now, you still, I think you can, I think you can still catch it out of the backboard. I put this way. I can dump. Uh-huh. But only on Friday. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do it. I'm gonna be able to do it. I remember before the game was over. I'm taking them all out of bounds. I'm only a while you in this league, huh? In this game. In this game. In this game. I wasn't mad, he made the through. Something's just called me homestead. (laughing) And so we coming down, I'm pissed off. And he shifts to his right, I'm coming up fast thing. Now that's bounced off, I got it behind my head. I banged on him, he filed me, he's sitting on the ground. So you got to end him when he filed me. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's a, it worked. I'm like, what? He's like, like you, you got balls. He said, but I'm still getting 40 on yours. (laughing) He did, but he got to frame my dues. Back then he had to pay you two bull. But that was the only time he'd ever talked to me. But that's funny, because he's just said recently. He should respect me more than anybody ever played against. So what a great play. He said, you know, you just couldn't guard him. That's all right. And it's coming from something like that, that ballad dates. You are. So Larry now, and I even know we didn't speak for, go ahead, we're really close friends. But we're not competitors. Right, that's good to hear. What kind of, you still, you know, represent the team. And he represents Indiana, right? Well, kind of in the background. Larry's kind of got, he's quiet. He doesn't like being out the front, and all that stuff. So you rarely see Larry around. He does look very quiet guy. But man, I still get giddy when I see him, you know, because that's the little story that we share. Y'all didn't play 101 since then. Not even a shooting. Neither one of us gonna win, because we can't move. Right now. So who was, like the most, I guess, your most feared competitor as far as, from a defense standpoint, that you didn't want to see? Well, you know what? I never feared anybody, that I would play. Well, who, who did you get? One guy. One guy. Who is that? One guy that's good. Who is that? And I knew when I had to play against him. I knew he'd get 40 and nothing I can do about him, and that was Bernard King. Bernard King was an animal. He was a freak, because he coming at you full speed, every possession all night. And now you can do it. He was the average in the 35, 36th game on one leg on the bomb day. He was averaging. Average. He went on the West Coast, average 50 on the West Coast. Came back, had 60, and that's the night time. It was in the early 80s. Bernard was that guy. So having a championship this year, I don't think he won any. I mean, because he was always the show. Right. He didn't have that type of help. He never reminds me a lot of myself. Not having another great play. And we still won. And so we were kind of the same situation. But I remember him going in the hall of fame, called the NBA, and as an NBA, I didn't introduce him. I'm like, me? We don't talk. We don't speak. He looked like I stole his kids or something. Yeah. That's what I was on it, because that's burnout. Right. So we get the hall of fame. I'm walking up. And I say, "Hey, be careful." So I never fear anything. Amen. I couldn't sleep. Like, for a play. [LAUGHS] I say, "You don't have a good health." Laughing. I said, "Why are you laughing?" He said, "Because you scared the hell out of me too." I thought, "Yeah, that's right." [LAUGHS] Right? That's right. You know? But it shows you the respect. Because, again, when you talk about camaraderie, I would have never known that he felt that way. Right. During the time we played against each other, but once we retired, people admit to you, you know, how they really felt about you as a person. There's a compliment. But none of us talk to each other. Right. None of us-- like, after game, we might shake hands, right? Some of us, we might take it. But we go to our locker room. They go to their locker room. They didn't get it in the locker room. We ain't staying in a line and go shake hands, all right? Nah, we ain't not doing that. They ain't going party. Nothing, you know? And if a guy kicked my butt, he had 30 on me. I didn't go out, because I was trying to find a way. Who I'm going to take it out on the next game. So I was pissed off, you know? Because I like-- I could have played better. You know, we lost the game, and this guy got 30. Right. I was mad. Yeah. And I wasn't going to celebrate with it. I didn't even celebrate my own brother, you know? Who played in the NBA? I'm like, you know? Nah. So who your brother played for? New York, next. Yeah, he was-- and Gerald was one of those guys, like her other guys. Talk trash. Gerald talked a lot of trash. You know, he was talk trash to me. It's like, you ain't going no more than that. I'm like, what? I'm like, you know, I got 45 and the third quarter, right? You know, I don't want to score no more. Matter of fact, because take me, I'm tired of kicking his ass. I don't even want to play no more. Man, the silence of interest that things are giving down on me. But you know, much, I mean, I love my brother, but when I'm on the court, I ain't no brother. That's not-- you put my mom on there. You put sneakers on you. You're going to get your ass busted. Yeah. If you want that other side of me, it's a problem, you know? That's all of it. I'm telling you, all those guys, you ask magic, saying, he'll tell you the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that this era of the league has lost that tenacity? I think in a lot of ways. Yeah. It's a very talented, no question. Right. But we live for the rivalries, man. We live for the matchups, and it was about how many games you could play. You know, I look at the first nine years of my career before I told my colleagues. Out of seven hundred and thirty four games, I played seven, twenty one. I didn't miss games. I didn't-- I didn't never miss more than four games in a season in my career because I-- I felt like I didn't play. I let myself down, let's team down, let's organize. Right. And we have an obligation to play, to put-- put all the other stuff aside, right? We are paid to provide a service, like everybody else. Right. And so, we owe it to them to get out of the play. And plus, we wanted to know who the best was. You know, I'm going to look for the playing as matchup. I look for the playing as-- well, I look for the playing as per an all the great players. Dr. J, who was-- I-- I don't-- still today, I wanted to play against that. Right. I want to know where I mentioned stuff stacked up with those guys. Right. And so, if I-- you don't play, you don't know where your real value is. Right. Now, now, you said-- so, you saying that you think it has a little bit-- what do you think took away that level of competitiveness? Well, I look at-- hey, and I'm all for it. You know, guys, corporations, first, brand, second, player, third. Mm. That's the difference. And here, I'm not condemning it. Right. Think it's great. But if you love to play it, don't matter. That's right. If you love to play it, I'm happy that the guys are getting all they can get. Mm-hmm. But still, how we got here through the love of the game and going out competing against the best. That's right. And then, the day. And-- That's why the bronze still playing? Yeah. Yeah. And he still playing. He still loves the game. No need to play. You could say whatever you want. We can also whatever you want, but he's still playing the game. He's still playing. Because if you got to love the game, to play it that long, the same thing with Kevin DeBand thing. Steph Curry. I mean, I'm guy's guy, 17, 18, 19 years old. Yeah. They still love the game. Right. The old guy, you know, you can't even complain about because they play, right, they play the game. And what about-- and you only play with Atlanta, right? I play with Atlanta most of my career. I play Boston a year. I play with San Antonio. Well, Atlanta for you, but at that time, it was basically buying time because I didn't enjoy it to the level I once did because when I left Atlanta, I was still hurt that I left here at the height of my career and then a year that they traded me out. I felt we was going to win it all. I mean, we were leading the Eastern Conference when they made it. Why did they want-- It wasn't my talent. It was money. They had promised me and contract. Right. How do you renew your contract? Right. Free. Yeah. Before you ever change it. Damn. Back then. Damn. And so that haunted city, that haunted franchise for a long time. It seemed like it still hunders. Yeah, well, my people still talk about it to this day. But again, I think the hardest part for myself and the fans here is that we was leading the Eastern Conference. We were hot, man. What year was this? I think it was '91, '92, I think it's '92, '92. '92. Okay. Man. Right before the trade. Yeah. And okay. So now you talk about what went into the trade, what factors into the decision to trade? Like we just saw--we just saw a trade-on got traded. Well, back then, you didn't have that much power. The players have a lot of power in that. Okay. Even though the team had, you know, last day so, but the players got a little bit more power than they had back when we played, you know. And so, you know, I think a lot of time when you look at trades, if either, you know, it's just not working or it's just time for a change, you know, and sometimes changing environment, you know, can heal a lot of things. look at the kill Alexander, who is with us now, since he's coming. to Atlanta Halls. He's had a breakout year, his best year of his career, you know. So he was at Minnesota. I believe he was early on in New Orleans, I think. But anyway, Minnesota is where I really saw him kind of become a really nice player. But when he came to Atlanta, it's like he took off. And so one of the best offenders in the league, one of the best scores as far as being able to get his own shot. Right. I mean, I love the way this guy plays. He's a he's a wonderful kid for one and two is that, you know, he's a leader. Well, what did you think about the trio of trade? I mean, you know, I think the world of trade, you know, still, you know, and again, when it don't work out, it don't work out, you know, and he stayed here for, you know, I think it was what six, seven years, seven years, seven years, and hey, man, you know, he, he put that, he put Atlanta back on the map for sure. But again, you know, sometimes things don't work out. I've been through it. He's going through a lot of guys. I mean, look, I mean, time's hard and it's moved. You know, how many times the ran is moved. So yeah, and you look at LeBron, all he, there's always going to be movement in professional sports, particularly basketball, you know. So, and it's going to continue, you know, I mean, they look at Janus, you know, the trademark and people stop every trade in the league because they wanted to see what Janus was going to do. What did he end up doing? Staying right with you. He's got an authority. They held everybody hostage. But, you know, that's the nature of the beast. You know, this is what we signed up for. And then it is a business. Who's the young player that reminds you the most of you is playing right now? Hmm. I don't think it's one guy. I think it's a mixture guy. I don't see myself in one guy. Okay. You know, I think I'm from, you know, got strengths from a strength standpoint. I think Jalen Brown, okay. A little of that. Yeah. A little Anthony ever explosive. That's what I think. Explosive. You know, and see what a lot of people are realizing, you know, when they see my career, when they see highlights me, what do they see? SlamDunk. SlamDunk. It's very difficult to get over 26,000 points on slamDunk. I said, guys, everything you see these guys doing the day I was doing back then, mid-range, I was a mid-range nightmare, post up, run the floor, stop more than eight, nine, free throw the night. You know, and what was your free, what was your free throw? I shot my first year, I was 68%. I went away, worked on it with a guy named Hank Slout and Pennsylvania. I came back and I shot 82% after that and I shot that for the rest of my career. So my career average was 82% from the free throw line. Okay. But I worked on the game. Okay. And the thing that I did most, I took one great thing, a great player, one of his best moves, like Earl the Perlman Rock, his spin move. I practiced over and over and over again. He became my spin move. How the great shooters used to get their shots coming off the screens, or practice over and to became part of my game. So one guy was never going to be able to guard me by himself. He had no shot. I never worried about the guy who was guarding me. I worried about the guy who was double teaming. I kept my eye on him because the guy in front of me, you had no shot. I didn't give a damn who you were. I see some of the guys, some of the defense, what they, okay. Yeah. And I played against some of the greatest defensive play history game. And they were big. You know, like Rodman, Piffin, Derek McKeele. I'm guy as big, but I just say, hey, they're going to need help to it. I might not get an easy 30, but I'm going to get it. You're going to get the 30, maybe a hard 30, but they're going to make you work. They make you earn it. But Michael will tell you the same thing, even magic. And people don't realize magic. If he wanted to have a story plus a game, he could have had too many weapons around him. He didn't have to. Right. And so you don't look at him being one of the top guys in the school, but didn't have to be. Right. But he changed the game. He managed the game and most time dominated the game. That's his presence. What do you get on? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's evident. Yeah. Like, so in your career, you've had so many explosive plays, which have led to so many poster worthy moments. What is your most memorable poster moment? Who did you put on that poster that you, that you hold in high regard? Well, I just enjoy getting centers. Yeah. And don't look guys. That went impressive to me. You're not going to want a big guy's like Robert Paris and, you know, Oblenir and Ralph Samson. Will you still around with Shaq pulled up? Oh, I called him my first, his first hit leg. I got him. You know, quick don't. He was too big. I didn't want to get hit by this dude. But yeah, I called him once. But you pick your spots. But I think the, the dunk for me that was iconic. The one I got on Oblenir where I came across a lane. I caught it on the block and I went to the minute. This is in a half court. Okay. And I went to the middle. They cut me off. I went, I went back baseline. I jumped and I turned in the air. Oblenir went up like this. And I turned, I think I closed my eyes because he was a big dude. He about 270. Right. And as he was coming back down, I was still going up. And I turned and I dunked on him right on the buzzer to win the game. Damn. He didn't speak to me for nine years. What's in it was yo. I mean, walk your butt. Okay. Yeah. He didn't speak me for nine years. Damn. Until we retired. And he said, now, you know, I, I like you again. I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, I didn't want to speak to you for nine years. I don't know why. Because I had to hear what my daughter said. Damn, what she said. How do you let that little skinny kid dunk on you like that? That you should be saying. He didn't speak to me for nine. Like for real man. It's only game. You know, that's crazy. But big guy's back there. The daughter talking to you. We can get home. Big guys took a personal man. Well, I mean, I caught Robert Paris. Man, he watched me all the way down the court. Just looked at me. I said, I probably don't want to try that again. Because Mary was a must. Yeah. Could they hit you? Yeah. They hit you there. Hey, ain't you ain't not doing this. No, you not doing that. Them guys took that personal celebrating in their face was like, no, it's a no, no, no. There's a no, no. Because they, because they're whole thing. We don't see if we're really about that. Yeah. You know, oh, you, I don't mind you kicking my butt. Don't try to bear us. Oh, that was their thing. So the embarrassment that will go. You know, Vernon Maxwell tell you, you know, you do that to a chemo large wine. He can put his hands on people. Three Rollins put his hands on people. I've seen three slaps so many people. Now you said, I said, well, you slap guys, man. He said, because it takes that manhood. Oh, I'm like, oh, okay, okay. But can you stay in the game? But nobody mess with three round. Nobody mess with three. Because he, he was fight. And like I said, he ain't going to huff up, you know, bump chest. He's swinging. It seemed like a big deal every time a, a small little, you know, scuffle happens now. But back in your day, it was fun. It was fun. It was like hockey. Yo, man, we loved it, though, because, you know, it just, it got your blood level, man. It got you hyped, you know, but you know, we never did anything to try to hurt people. Not unless someone was trying to hurt you, you know, you defend yourself, but what was the most memorable fight that you can, that you can, oh, you probably remember this Boston Garden, Danny Ains three rounds. Danny Ains kept coming around screen and three with the pick him. He would jab me in the ribs or this vest. And he used to tell the ref, man, you better call this or it going to be consequences, but the ref just put the Wilson mouth. He wouldn't call it. So the next time Danny Ains came around and picked three caught him again. He almost, man, he all thought he broke his neck. Dan. He hit the floor. And then he grabbed three by his legs, and they both fell. Everybody dove on top. And you can, you hear guys fighting. So we got away. So Danny Ains tried to poke three and I three called his finger. And almost bit it off. What? He bit it down to the bone. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. Hit it down to the bone. And they asked him, why did he bite him? He said everything outside of my mouth blown him. Everything inside belongs to me. Hey. Hey, man. I mean, he almost bit his finger off. Damn. Yeah. That man. And we've, man, it was a lot of, but I tell you the most frightening fight was Kermit Washington and Rudy Tom John. He almost killed it. Got one punch broke every bone in his face. This was in the 70s. 70s. Yeah. I don't even know these guys. Yeah. If you go Google Kermit Washington famous punch, uh, man, Kermit Washington. Okay. So what team was he playing for? He was with the Lakers at the time. Uh, and Kermit Washington, who's the other guy? Uh, Kermit Washington with the Lakers Rudy Tom John with the Houston Rockets. Okay. And Kermit put, but he didn't mean to hit him though. The thing is that they, he was fighting someone else. Uh, and he heard about someone coming behind him. He just turned and threw the punch. Damn. And it connected. He didn't mean to hit him. He even went to the hospital. You know, after he hit him, he said, I didn't mean to do that. You know, I just felt so my comment. I just turned to the punch. Did he forgive him? I don't know. I don't know if you ever give me, you know, he was the, they suspended him and definitely in the league. Yeah. So Kermit got to spend it. Yeah. So he came back and league against us, right? And I mean, Kevin Willis, he was young. And Kevin said, I'm going to go out there and bang with his ass. So I said, Kevin, you can't bang with him. And Kevin said, I'm a damn dough. But Kevin, hey, Kevin, Kevin's strong, man. But I took, but you understand current arms was like this, right? And I said, Kevin, don't just go out there and play me. Don't start a bang with it. So he goes out. He's trying to bang with Kermit. Kermit moving him around the lane with one on like this, let's move him around the lane. Kevin couldn't do it here. Comes back to man. He said, yo, though, the fuck, I'm stronger. I told you, dumbass. I told you, you know, but you know, Kevin, I mean, that's my closest friend to this day, man. And that was my enforcer. But I wanted to make sure he understands or understood what kind of guy Kermit was and what he found out very quickly. Damn, that's something I love to hear. I love to hear, you know, guys from your era just talk about the game because you remind us so much of things. Because me, you know, I was born in '80s. So I started watching basketball around '85, around the bad boys on Detroit. You know, you and Spud. MJ, Magic, you know what I mean? Like I don't really, I wasn't exposed to, you know, the game prior to because I was alive. So I love to hear you out. What do you think you want to remind the present basketball fans and my era of basketball fans of the game? You know, the thing is I told people this, you know, we've had out time, right? It's their time. But please, please stop trying to crap on us to prove your point. Right. Because great is great, you know, and you have to emulate somebody through your early life who you want to be like. That's right. Because it's the ones before us to make us who we are. That's right. I give all the guys before me, they're roses. I mean, you look at Wilk Chamberlain, you look at Russell and Oscar Robinson, make them guys. Those are the real gods of basketball. And so when you talk about winning stuff like that, you've got to start with Russell. Right. Levin out of 13 years. Yeah. 11 championship. 11 championship. 13 years. Yeah. I mean, that's where you start. I mean, people don't talk about Wilk. Wilk, the most dominant player to ever play. The guy average 50 and 30. He dominated. I mean, he, uh, he didn't want to score the 100 points, right? 100 points in average 50 and 30 and one sees. And so they said, oh, well, you shoot too much. You know what he did? He led the next year. He led the league and assist. I mean, he can do whatever he want because he was that skilled and that's strong. The guy was bent 600 pounds before games. Damn. I mean, people don't. Again, because you can't get a lot of footage of these guys. Doesn't mean they didn't exist. Right. Because I was happy. I happen to be alive when a lot of these guys were in their prime doing this, you know, you look at West Unsell and over and haze. I mean, he's on the who they are. Right. Some of the greatest players have a play. And you probably would hurt a lot of players today the way they play. West Unsell used to jump off grab a rebound, right? Throw it to the other end, hit the other backboard in the air. That's how strong he was. He was just one of the greatest strongest rebounders ever played the game. But that's how he used to train doing that kind of stuff. But see, I grew up because I used to sneak in games when I was a kid in the Baltimore civics center where the bullets, Baltimore bullets at that time used to play in the West Unsell archie clock or the Perl Monroe. I mean, these kids need to go back and look at the history. But I think the biggest thing for a young and I was just saying earlier, are young kids just need to listen sometime? That's real. That's listen. We all do. You know, you know, because you know, sometimes, man, we think we know too much. That's right. And you really don't know enough. We don't know exactly. And so if you're willing to listen and learn, you're going to get there a lot quicker. That's real. You know, I say that to my own son. I said, just listen, man. I said, could you really understand what I did? Because my son never seen me play because, you know, he wasn't buying when I was playing. Let's go back and look at film. He played basketball. Yeah, he's going to Georgia. Okay. Yeah, he's six, eleven. Okay. You can play. But I only think I won from him. I don't worry about his bullet. Just listen. Just listen. I said, because if you listen to what I'm trying to teach it, because I can teach you things that other people can, if you're willing to listen, you learn that more as you get older. The younger you are, and you look back on it as you get older, like, damn, I wish I would have listened. My oldest son is saying where he tells me all the time that I just didn't listen. Yeah. You know, he said, so, he tried to, so he tells the brother now, man, if you don't do anything, listen to that. That is one of the greatest guys ever played this game right in your own household. He said, just, just listen, you know. But one thing I don't do with my kids, I can't want it more than you. That's right. You got to want it more than me. And if you want it, I'll exhaust every opportunity that I have to help you get there. But you got to earn it. I said, 'cause nobody ever gave me nothing. That's right. I did it on my own. You know, I've been a man in the house since I was 12 years old. Yeah. On the own since I was 16. Right. And so I never had a real child. Right. And I said, but I don't make excuses. I said, because all of that helped me build character, made me stronger and believe in myself. Do you think we too, we are rough on our kids because of our childhood? Or do you think we take it easier on you? I think we take it easier now. Me too. I think we take it. We can't do stuff off cases. Right. My mom used to looking at me like, if I say something slick, it's like, I know it. That meant right. You know, it was coming next. And so I've been listening to play that. And so if it works for us, why can't it work for them? Yeah. I mean, my daughters themselves are always complaining. They're always bitching about something. You know, I said, well, I like things the way I like it. That's right. That's simple as that. I said, I'm trying to teach you something. You know, I said, like I said, in my wipe tape, it like stuff in the house, right? Mm-hmm. I like stuff a certain way. That's right. Clean your face up. I'm a low OCD. You know? You get it like that, though. Like because you know, we used to have to live in the house that, you know, stuff didn't work or broken. Yeah. So when I'm in there and I see stuff out of out of order and cluttered, you're like, man, this made me feel like I'm back in the car. Yeah, me too. And I ain't trying to go back. I ain't trying to go back. We've been there. You know, but, man, but, you know, it taught us character, taught us responsibility. Right. And so I tried to teach my kid. That said, I ain't to raise now. Mm-hmm. You know, I said, I'm like playing there, but I ain't to made. You got to do your part. Help me help you. That's right. You know? That's right. So you're, you're, you're, you're, your oldest son. Tell me what age you think it was that he actually realized that he should have listened more. I think after he left college. Mm-hmm. His first year as a professional. And he realized that. So your son played in the league? Your oldest son? I mean, he played professional, but he played well thing. You're okay. Got it. And I think at that point, he's like, damn, if I did just listen. Because when he came out of college, he went to universe Virginia. He was the ACC defensive player of the year. Mm-hmm. But he went from scoring to becoming a scorer and rebounded coming out of high school. He was having 25 and 12. Mm-hmm. And he gets Virginia and he wouldn't shoot the ball. Mm-hmm. And I said, son, look, and his, and his younger brother at the time, he was eight. And he said, how you wearing number 21 and don't shoot? I said, if your younger brother tell you, you think it's a problem? You know, so, but his game changed. But I'm gonna tell you something about him. He has so much respect now. And he's doing so well as a coach. He's coaching us. Kyle Berkeley out in that area. Mm-hmm. And he's doing very well. So I'm proud of him because he found his calling. He always wanted to be a coach more than a player. Right. So he's doing well. Okay. Man, one of the most memorable moments that I can recall from your illustrious career is that dunk kind test with Michael Gillette. Yeah. Could you feel that it was a legendary moment at the time? Yeah, we knew that the torture has been passed to us from Dr. J. And so going in, you know, both of them wanted to win. Uh-huh. But I remember Doc River said to me, he said, you know, you're going to have to win this thing. You and Chicago, they ain't going to just let you win. Mm-hmm. I'm like, fuck that. That's, I'm going to get it. You know, that's what I said. Right. And it was funny because my last dunk should have been 50. Right. And it went up my previous three that was all 50. Then my last one was better than those. Mm-hmm. And oh, okay. What's happening? Because I actually had one because he had missed. And they said, no, he got a reprieve. He got one more. So that's one of the win from the Frinta line. Yeah. So he got MVP that all style weekend, which he was unreal in that game and won the dunk. But, but you know, what's funny thing is Michael and I, we never talked about it. We knew the unspoken thing that who won? And he said, he just said recently, like, Nick should have won. But we was in Chicago. It wasn't going, going big. And I saw him and his wife in Chicago a few years ago. Mm-hmm. And I went, walked over to the table and went to say hello to him. And he said, you know, you want that dunk. I said, you know what, Mike, give me that 25 grand that again. Win it. We call it even. I haven't seen the 25 yet. But, but you know, he and I, you know, we got so much respect. And we always said, No matter who won, the fans got that. money work. That's right. That the best went against the best. Yeah. And whoever came on the top, you know, we lived with that. You know, so no matter what, you know, we gave them what they came to say. Right. You know, and they ain't like that. On the offseason, you know, I've seen a lot of players, they go and they work on their game with other, you know, uh, uh, legend, their players. I've seen, uh, you know, footage of Kobe working with so many people. Um, was that anyone that you work with on the offseason? No. Um, not like, you know, you look at Kobe Kobe had his own group he worked with. He didn't go away to live weight training. He went away to work on this game. And the only way you can, can define your game and work on your game, you gotta get on the court and play ball, play ball. Yeah. That's the way you get better. You don't get better at the game and weight run. You don't because what skill are you working on? Um, not. And so I used to work out with players in my team, or I had gotten, believe it or not, I had street guys that I would go out there and play on the playground. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He was still around here. Well, no. Yeah. This was in Atlanta. Okay. I used to play. We used to go play at Adams Park. You know, we should go, um, uh, uh, Grand Park, man, we played, we played in these hot gyms against street legends in the city. Yeah. Because them guys didn't fear you. Right. So you got a new play harder against them and did your thing. Everything else was easy. Um, but these guys didn't care. You know, man. I think, uh, I know that Atlanta still loves you. You know, you could fill it in the city. You could tell, uh, but tell me what does the city mean to you now that you retire versus when you know, I love Atlanta, man. I think everybody know that just because the way the city have treated me for over three decades, um, I never saw myself living anywhere else. Never. Right. And so this city is still, you know, except me as a kind of their native son here. And continue to show me respect and love. And that's the reason why that statue is sitting out. That's right. That's right. And they, and they got it right. It's a good thing. They got the statue right. Yeah. They got the right. That's seeing some statue. They don't quite, you know, yeah. They don't quite. Yeah. Memorial. Yeah. Yeah. The person physically the way they shoot. Well, the, the sculptor who did that statue, I met with him probably 20 times when they, when they decided that statue can go up. And so he captured a image that was anticipation of the dunk instead of the dunk itself. And so that's how we came to him. Matter of fact, it's a trading card with that image on it. Yeah. Yeah. Man, you, you, you can give me some advice. I'm not, you know, I'm not an athlete. Don't live basketball at all. Uh, that's one stereotype of an African American to grew up in. Yeah, I always play all the way basketball. I do not actually mind track. And my background track and feel okay. I still hold my highest record in a quarter mile for real. This is day. Yeah. Okay, then I was a sprinter. Oh, no. Not even on the tree. And getting up, I'd be breathing. I mean, he's talking about. You know, we've made some coffee, some water. Yeah. But, but what you can help me with, man, um, I don't know if you know that, but I'm working on my last album. And I'm going to retire after this album. And everybody's telling me, you know, saying that if you still playing, uh, at a high level, like, you know, or if you still, you know, producing music at a high level, why would you retire? And I try to explain it to them, you know, that sometimes you just know, when it's time to work on, you know, how did you know? You know what, when you get to point in your life where you've gotten everything, you need to have accomplished everything. And you want one, want to have one last heroic go at it, right? You'll always tell yourself, but you don't want to do this forever. That's right. You don't want to do this forever, but you want to make sure you get the most out of it and leave your mark, you know, right? On your, on your profession. Right. And the only one that got to be happy with it is you. That's it. Because at the end of the day, if you're not happy, nobody else is happy, right? So you got to make yourself happy. And this is, because I, you know, I tell my wife all the time, you know, it's got to be a point where I want to enjoy life with just us, right? You know? And when that time come, I got to be a piece with it and everybody around me had to be a piece with it. So the thing they should do is celebrate what you've done. Once you decide, hey, this is it? One last hurrah. I'm going to give it my best. And I'm going to pass that towards someone else, right? Because I've already, with the stand to bear to what this should be, right? Now I'm ready to pass that on. Right? Oh, and was it, was it a difficult decision for you to decide to return? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's never easy to retire. It's not because if that was the case, I would be sitting at home right now doing nothing. But, you know, I still like, I still have the fire for, you know, the game and being around it. But you got to be around it at your pace. You own the soccer club, Birmingham Legion. What drew you to owning part of a soccer team? When soccer is exploding in this country. It is. It's just in this country's late. Yeah. And then Birmingham is perfect because kind of the owning game in town. And soccer is elevating in that area. And that team before years before, I got there was, because it's a new soccer team, you know, they've been in the playoffs. They've gotten there. And so you got a young team that's used to, you know, being focused on winning games. But one point for me, it gives give you a chance to be involved in the sport. Everybody can play. Okay, especially young kids, man, you know, for all these soccer fields, they're building in the country. Everybody can play soccer. Right. And so that was one of the biggest reasons why I got involved in it. So, you don't play soccer? I know. I can't kick a ball though. No, no, no. I'm awkward. You know, very coordinate with basketball. But, you know, I saw track and field football and basketball. And I play baseball too. What was your position in football? Receiver. Receive. Okay. Got it. You and I are also passionate about housing. You know, you also be in your house and making sure people are properly home. Tell us about a root real real estate to help renters build equity. Well, your thing is, is give people a chance to live a decent life, man. And a lot of times, you know, not giving people handouts or give them what we call a hand up. And that's giving them resources. So they can, you know, at least give them, you got to give them a chance. Right. And so basically what we do, we select 25 on the top candidates in the city of Atlanta, for example. And everybody's screened and we pay their rent for a whole year. And you see the smile on some of these people's face that they never thought they could live in a home. Right. Now, these are working people. These are not people with disabilities. These are people who actually work hard, but just don't have means to, you know, stop it. It's created. It's the lack of income. It's all the above. So basically what you do with roots is if you pay your rent on time, keep the place together. Right. You get incentives. And so at the end of the quarter, you get, you know, money back to come out of either you can take and do whatever you want, or you put it back into roots fun when you earn an interest on your money. So it's compounding. Right. Every time every quarter that comes around. So now you're starting to build well. So at the end of the program, you have enough for it down payment. Exactly. Don't have people that got it had enough down from enough money to put it down payment to own a home instead of renting a home. And if you see some of the homes that we redo, man, you'd be like, wow, and he's really nice. Many of these are pretty sounds. So that's all about giving back. Man, that's one of those things. I said, you know, just do your part, you know, and do for someone else or somebody that beat you. Right. Oh, you're also a big, uh, uh, uh, uh, big, uh, kind of sore of cigar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What got you into cigar smoking retirement? Retirement. Retirement. You know, you know, but being retired, playing golf, yeah, having, I guess as well. Yeah, having cigar little golf course, but I had my own cigar for a while. Um, it was really good cigar that was blended with four different leaves from four different regions. Okay. It did very well. But, you know, I think I got into pairing cigars with different wines and like, scotches and bourbons. So it came out with my own bourbon. Okay, and really good bourbon, by the way. We know what, man, we need to go out, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the smokers of golf, but I golf. Yeah. I like scotch. Oh, I drank that too. Yeah, yeah. I enjoy drinking certain type of scotch. Okay. So what do you like? I don't like the PD scotch. Which one you like? I mean, I like the McAllen. I like McAllen 18 and the Glenn Leffin. Oh, they kind of stop. I do too. And they also have, actually, it's not a scotch, but I don't if you ever tried this, that's the tequila. Now, I'm not a big tequila guy. I don't really train you. I don't blame me, but me to do I, but it's, it's, it's two types. Which one? It got one that's called bass and they'll rain. Okay. One that's cold. - Um, El Dictivo. - Mm. - Bro, it's-- - The only dealer I've ever come out drinking that I really enjoy, and now in this phase of play, is a casa de la gonis. - Stop it. - Hey, get them to us. - Okay, I'ma try and find them. I'ma try and find them. - You wanna thank me for those things. - And one day, man, we're gonna go golfing together, man. - Oh, come here. Give me a chance to get out of the house a little bit. - Yeah. - No point intended, love. - Well, you have to. (laughing) - My wife, she loved when I'm on the golf course. She know I'm at the way, ain't got nobody by me. All I'm do ain't even on my phone, you know. - Yeah, actually, my wife, she plays golf now. - Oh, really? - Yeah, she played golf. - My wife, when she said, "I've tried a cut." - I gotta start it, I'm giving a lesson. She got tired of me complaining, she ain't holding it right, so she had her own golf instructor. - And then, so, now I have to get up. - Yeah. - That's amazing, man. - Yeah. She loved it. We got, I'm in common. - Golfing is an amazing sport. - Yeah, she's a much younger. - Oh, your wife's most sick of. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, well, she had her own little brand. - Oh. - What I had, my brand. - Right. - Yeah. - My wife manages the marijuana in my house now. (laughing) - Somebody got manages. - You know how many of you manage the marijuana? She makes sure that I don't lose the proper flowers. - You can have the proper inventory. - See, I'm coming over to the house. I just want to see how that's all just kind of spread out. How you got, you know. - I love to hold you, your wife, and then away with you, man. - That's a deal. - Yeah, man. - That's a deal. - Hey, man. Anything else you're looking forward to in the future? - Man, you know what? I'm just looking forward to, you know, the young people in my life continue to grow, my son continue to grow, and become a player that I know he was become, but again, you know. - Are you a grandfather yet, neat? - I don't know, many times over. - For real? How many grandkids you get? - Well, see, I got nine and two more. Two, I got a great one on the way. - What? - Yeah, and a grand son and another. - You look great. - I got two grand, great grandkids. - You don't look like a great grandfather. - Yeah, damn you. - My group, I think my oldest great grandfather is four or five. - Okay. - Yeah. - That's amazing. - Yeah. - I'm a grandmother. - But they don't call me great nothing. - What they call you? - They call me pop-up, that's it. - Don't call me great granddad. - My grandbabies call me pop-up. - All the mind, they call me the same thing. - Yeah. - Yeah, my oldest daughter, she had six of my grandkids, so she didn't know when to stop, but, you know. - But the grandkids, it's great, we have fun holidays. - And you think in them, we're going to get in the sports? - Yeah, I think, you know, I think my youngest man, is probably in a football. - Okay. - Yeah, thinking in football, they really love football. They, you know, they've done pretty well. - That's what's up, man. - But I got a lot of girls. - A lot of girls. - How many girls you get? - A lot. - We got daughters, man. - Yeah, and the daughters, raising daughters are different. - Yeah, it's different. - Much different. - You know, see, you know, daughters is a little more sensitive. - They're more, as far as communicating, they call you more. My son's rarely ever call them. You know, they got the old thing. You know, they may call me once a month, but my daughter's calling me every other day. - Man, so, so I feel like with sons, you have to get through to your sons listening to you. - Yeah. - And that's that part. - And as far as we have to get through our self to listen to our daughters, you know, you know, sometimes you got to let go of your ego. And as far as without daughters, you know, we figure nobody got enough form, you know. So we do a little more than we probably should, but it's just our protection level that we have, you know, we're going to protect them old. But our sons, you know, you teach them to handle themselves, not your world. You know, because like I said, I don't, I don't gas my sons. I don't tell them something that, you know, that I know that's possible for me to do. If you can't do it, I'm not going to tell you you can. But I know, one thing I do tell them, don't let people tell you what you can do. - That's right, that's right. Man, I appreciate the game, you know, I really appreciate it, and I appreciate all of your contributions to the city of Atlanta, the culture of Atlanta, to the game of basketball, and to pop culture, because you know, I used to want my haircut, like, down there, man, you know what I'm saying? - Now I can't even grow it now, bro. I had a hole in my throat, you know? - Man, I remember, man, when you, when you had, you had the box, you know, with the poet, and the, and the box, man, I was like, man, that, I want my hair cut right there. - You know, it's funny thing that my roommate now in the college, we started that. - Oh, yeah. - And that's, you know, everybody. - The box, that could, yeah. - How did that happen? - You know, in college, we used to grab both. We wanted to do something different. - Yeah. - And so we did that and had the little part. We started out with the hair. - Sure. - With the parts. - In the middle. - Right. - Right. - Then we said, oh, we got to do something different. So we let it grow a little bit, then we went to the parts side. So my roommate and I, we started that. - Mmm. - Man, well, you know, you, you, you, you have tons of contribution. Tons of contributions to pop culture, Atlanta culture. And, you know, I just want you to know how much we appreciate you. - Well, you know, I appreciate you guys too, man. I mean, you guys have really done a great job building your own branch in the city of being part of Atlanta during your landscape. But, because you got stayed here too. That's what make you real legends city. When you grow here, you perform here and really do the things that brings you wealth and peace and prosperity. And you stay here. That's what make you a true Atlanta icon. - Man, well, thank you. That means a lot coming from an icon to your statue. All of the things that you've done, when you got into the executive part of your career. How did you know what you wanted to do? - Well, you know, I prepared myself for basketball. I mean, for life after basketball. Probably five years before every time. - Really? - I started to think, okay, what do you want to do once you retire? I wanted to think that I wanted to do. I wanted to be a part of Atlanta. I wanted to be an executive. And so, when they traded me, they said I would always have a position there whenever I decide to retire. And so, once I did, I came back to Atlanta and I've been here ever since. So, I wanted to use that as a stepping store, a launching pad to do something bigger than myself. And that's how I got into all the other business aspects. But I got started in healthcare was the first thing I got started and it was diabetes and hypertension. And so, I used to be with a couple of pharmaceutical companies. I don't know. I was with no barters doing some of their blood pressure medication. And so, that's where it started. And I became a diabetic, you know. - Oh, you diabetic? - Yeah, I've been diabetic for 25 years. Probably a little longer than that. So, I helped build some of the profile and personality with novel northeres in the United States when they were coming over here. They didn't have a lot of employees for this company. And for 10 years, I helped build them to, you know, in desk diabetes on multi-billion dollar company. And so, that's where I got my real tutelage from as far as healthcare and new gingries. - Okay. - And, you know, and people asked me, "How do you and new gingries hook up?" I said, "Nothing to do with politics." It's all about healthcare. And when the smartest people, I know. So, he said, "Look, I want people to look at you. Definitely what you're going to do to help change healthcare." - Okay. - And so, we had a whole campaign called New and Neeks Full Court Press on diabetes. And so, we did a lot of great work. And getting people help building, getting them screened, building portfolios of their health. And that led into the disability side. Like, hidden disability, disabilities and culture city, which I've been chairman of the board for at least nine years now. And we've done so much great work and not just around the country, around the world, as far as our sensory rooms and our programming and teaching first responders how to recognize people who are dealing with overload, sensory overload. So, we've done a lot of work. - So, how does that compare to what you do now? - It's a part of it. - Okay. - So, all that is still a part of what I do now, especially with the charitable side. And now, we do what we call a disparity health basically, where we want people to, especially as you get older, to really concentrate on your health. As far as, you know, doing whole body assessments, making sure that you, again, build that portfolio of your health. So, if something's going to wrong, your existence know how to tackle it. Instead of guessing, because a lot of times, we don't always tell the whole truth about our health. We get half truth. So, you get a half diagnosis, right? Do that. And so, being able to put. - Now, they got this thing where you could put your whole body in the MRI scan, and they can scan the entire body from top to bottom in. - Yeah, it's a lot of that. It's available. But I think what we do now with disparity health is, actually, you go into a facility, and they do a whole body assessment on things that, you might overlook your body. And so, we just tried to. And the thing is that insurance companies, also, you know, they recognize that this is something that's needed. And so, it's insurable to the technology. - Mm-hmm. - Again, it's better to know what's going on with your health than not. Because when it's not, when something happens, sometimes you have to point out no return. - Right. And dealing with you. diet. It's probably the best thing that you can do. Could not eaten, and you can not see it. You know, you can still do things you enjoy when they're moderate. That's right. Don't try to do so much. And sometimes, I usually stay on track, but sometimes if I get off track more, I ain't gonna let me know I can't have this or that. But, you know, like, one thing you can't have no mold at you. You know, you should love apple pie as a whole big old, a whole apple pie. Now I might have a piece every now and then, you know, what's a lot of things that I've cut out? Like, I don't drink orange. I haven't had orange juice for 27 years. Why? Why orange juice? Because that's a diabetic. Orange juice is real bad for us. It's sweet, too sweet. When your sugar love, get to know what they tell you. Orange juice. Orange juice. Orange juice is gonna sting your sugar to the root. I always, you know, see my grandma used to pop a peppermint. Yeah. Well, that too, for you eat a candy bar or something like that. And so a lot of things, I used to snack things that I can't have. Right. And after why? You don't miss it. What about regular food? Like, you know, any meats? Well, I still eat a lot of chicken, a lot of fish, eat steak from time to time. I mean, you still can eat stuff that I'm, but you're, but you also have to have a lot of best. You got to. And I drink a lot of water. Okay. A lot of water. Are you like a water snob? Is it a certain kind of water that you? Yeah, I'm a snob. Yeah, it's certain type of water. What kind of water do you wish you wish your water? Well, they got this Callaway water. Okay. You can get it published. Really good water. And even more. Mm hmm. Your water. I like these you too. Okay. So I'm a little picky with come to water. Yeah. I can tell with certain water, don't taste the thing. Yeah. You know, after a while, come in when you drink a lot of water. Right. You can tell the difference. Yeah. I like aqua panna. Yeah. I do not do. I do drink aqua panna. I like Voss. My okay. You come away to advise me. See, you see, you got to spend some taste, bro. Yeah. I got to spend some days there. Yeah. Yeah. What's better for you? Yeah. What is it says so go to so go to. It's in a blue bottle. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I drink that every night. But you should try that Callaway. Okay. Okay. I try. I try. Man. And we're going to get out here. I'm going to smoke a cigar with you too, man. Oh, yeah. I have a need. So I'm going to tell you why. Which cigars, you don't inhale at all. Mm hmm. You're dead so. So all you just go to do is taste the smoke and blow it out. So you hold a smile. You get your palate used to different to bad. You just holding them off and blow it. That's I see it. You don't have when I see somebody inhale and say, God, it's going to make you feel real nice. Yeah. No. So yeah, if he gets down in it, that's down in stomach. Yeah. Yeah. He did it wrong. Yeah. That's where I know. Yeah. Yeah. You probably didn't go down the hole to come out to know, but no, that's not how you smoke it. Hey, man, because I did that the first time ever smoke a cigar. Mm hmm. And then I was sick. And I didn't put it. I didn't smoke another one for like eight years. Okay. I didn't do it right. But once I started doing it again, I realized I was doing it wrong. That's why I couldn't take it. Who was it to introduce you to it? You know what? I saw a Michael smoking cigars, right? Mm hmm. When he player, and I remember, you know, going to trunk his car set, Mike, I know you got the good stuff in your trunk. He opened his trunk. He got cigar. I'm talking about the top of the line. He said, oh, I need, you know, these are rare. I said, Mike, you got a whole truck full of cigars. I mean, give me a cigar, man. So I'm being stingy. And he used to laugh about it. He used to get you one. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I kind of got really serious about it after that. Okay. You know, I have a funny, funny story about Mike. And it's when the first time I ever met Mike, I was young. I was young and probably before the world knew about me, but Atlanta knew who I was. And we admit, you know, daytime meeting place for young professionals, entrepreneurs, and celebrities, magic city. I was just going to, you know, to meet my, to meet my, my, my manager. It happened to be his birthday today too, a long live OG clay. So I was meeting my manager there. And it was me and my good partner, who's also no longer with us, long live big field. We had just bought the new joins. It was some new joins that just came out when they started re-releasing the older ones. Yeah. So we had winning got them and we had them on and we walked in magic city. And I'm going to meet clay, clay was sitting at the bar. And I noticed over in the far VIP section, I see, I see, uh, char oakley. That's what we hungry. MJ. And they over there smoking cigars, you know, I'm saying just having a conversation with, hey, so in my mind right then, I had been already seen all the way through, I worked out a plan in my mind, how I saw it happening. I saw Mike coming to me and asking me who, if I was who I am, you know, and I was, I was going to say, yeah, yeah, that's me. And we was going to become friends. He was going to sign my shoes. And I was going to be the first rapper to, to get a contract with the Jordan brand. That's what I saw in my head immediately. Okay, let me tell you what happened. Um, uh, I was, I was too cool to go over there to him. I ain't want to bother him. I was too cool for that. But as me and, and, and, uh, clay and feel we're talking, um, I drunk a beer. I was drinking Heineken at the time. I can't drink it no more, but I was drinking Heineken at the time by the, probably about the end of my first bill, uh, Oakland and MJ had then got up and they were walking towards me. I said, here they come. I know how to just pretend. Yeah, they come. So, you know, when they walk up to me, I kind of stood out there and just kind of, you know, prepared and so, and, you know, I guess I was blocking the path. So they stopped, right? And I was like, what's up, MJ? Uh, I'm tilt, man. I'm a new artist right here. He's like, oh, okay. And, uh, and he would kind of like, okay, now what? So, and so, you know, I reached out to give him depth and his hand was out there. So I figured, you know, he wanted some depth, too. So I just, you know, gave him some depth and not this cigar at his hand. Oh, that's a no. So man, I'm looking at him. He looking at me. We looking at the cigar. And I'm thinking about here. I know you don't think I'm going to be able to get this cigar, man. I can't do that one. And so before I'm thinking of a big field, he, he's been throwing got the cigar. I say, here you go, Mike. Man, thank you, man. Uh, uh, it's nice to meet you. He was like, yeah, okay. And he walked past and I think he went to the, I think they were going to, he went to the bathroom and came back, sat back down. He pulled a field into the VIP section with him, saying, hit you. Silent killer, right? That's all I might. That's all I, that's all I hear. My first experience with MJ, man, we laughed about it later. Oh, he knew what he was doing. No? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If they wanted to code, it's like, you know, he, like you said, silent killer. It's a lot, there's a lot spoken in the silence. Yeah. There's a lot to be said with the unsaid here. He was competitive. You know, we go back since college that I was a junior. He was a freshman. Uh-huh. And you know, he was that guy. Then we didn't know he going to be what he ought to be. Can, but he was, he was my. What was it about playing against him that showed you? He was dead. Yeah. He refused to lose. Refused. You know, in college, you know, we playing the first time I had to play against worthy, you know, and our basketball career. And so we playing in North Carolina, we playing at Greensboro, North Carolina, which is your whole. Yeah. And yeah, where kind of where I grew up in that area. Mm-hmm. And the whole game, man, James Worthy, we have great game. So that I wanted to set the tone. I threw it first shot six row in the stand. That's the left of North. Can we hear? And like I said, we have no great game. The last two minutes, the young kid that Michael Jordan took over. Mm-hmm. Took over. Beat us. Last two minutes of the game. I'm like, who in the world was this kid? Now we got at the time was it was it was it was it as he was as explosive in the paint as he was from the outside. Oh, yeah. He was just young. Yeah. But quick. He was strong. He was very creative. Right. But he was relentless. I mean, the freshmen. Mm-hmm. Oh. So I said he could tell you and be up, you know, and so I went to the NBA that year after that season. Uh-huh. And you knew it was coming. Oh, he was coming. Go in the hole like two years. You know, he's the top three. Right. You know, um, which we all knew that. Right. This what I would say to people. If you haven't seen Michael Jordan play a course, uh, you can't know. Cannot know. Yeah. Cannot. You can't. He had no weaknesses. Uh-uh. None. No weaknesses. None. How can that be if there was such thing of a perfect player When people compare like MJ to joy, I mean, excuse me MJ to LeBron or MJ to Kobe Do you think that's a fair comparison? I think it's a you know what I think it's a dumb argument I'm gonna tell you why I say that because there's too many different eras Basketball and greatest great okay, we're hearing play them, but if every day is about Who is the greatest out of them to the greatest here and you forget about all these other great players? You know who's played the game, right? You know like I said you lose will lose Russell They won a lot, you know, and so when they start coming up with I don't believe in the goal I just don't I believe in the ghosts right the greatest players right And so I don't think the comparisons are just not fair. I mean Michael joy in the man This I feel put Michael over here. Mm-hmm Russell Put them over no got you can talk bad magic bird put them over there. Why don't we even talk about them guys? untouchable right untouchable and For me it's just a pleasure And I feel And it's well, but because I had one championship they don't talk I mean my career every 25 came from a career damn people don't talk How do you feel? How does it feel? How do you feel about the career given that you you didn't actually win the chance? I said you look at the guy all the guys who ever want to It does it does not you know a lot of guys because a lot of guys with your road to Bench ended up whatever Hey, you wrote that train, you know, hey, and more power to you, right? But listen, don't try to diminish my career. That's right because most things I play against Who were great teams? Mm-hmm had three or four Hall of Fame going against one. That's right But I have no great because they let me know how I I stacked up. Yeah, they knew they had to stop me with them to beat us. That's right That's all that man. Well, look, I don't want to hold you man. Well, I appreciate man. I appreciate y'all for being here, man Expeditiously, we have some call the word of the day now the word of the day is the day that is Is is it derives from the comfort the conversation or is inspired by the guest and the word of the day For you, Mr. Wilkins is a Propolite That's the correct Propolite and Propolite, okay, I got you or y'all got real fancy right here in there. Okay, so do it. Yeah, okay So here here expeditiously, we have something called the word of the day now the word of the day is a word that is Inspired by the conversation or the guest now the word of the day for you, Mr. Wilkins is propellant propellant means superior in influence or power and to use it in the sentence I will say Dominique's propellant influence on basketball has shaped the game as we know it today I bought it Thank you, man, and this is bit expedition This is expedition I am till T.I. have