Do What Matters | Tips and Tricks for Clerkship Applications

We would like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners on which we are recording today, the Warondry people of the Cooling Nation. We pay our respects to their elders both past and present. Hello listeners and welcome to episode three of the Do What Matters podcast. Thank you for joining us again. And as always I'm joined by my co-host Emily Kid and our producer Charlotte Verly. How are you going today, Em? I'm well thank you Pete. It's a pleasure to be back on the mic. I do have to let you know that I've been watching Severance. I am completely addicted though I will say not quite sure what's going on so I'm looking forward to discussing some of those conspiracy theories with you later on. I am so excited. I cannot wait for you to finish the season. Anyways, today we're talking all things tips and tricks for Clarkship applications. We will be joined by Rose Bundrock from our people and culture team. Rose is the head of talent acquisition. Really looking forward to having Rose on the pod. I feel like this episode could go on for hours. There is so much to talk about when it comes to Clarkship applications. So in light of that, would you like to run us through today's agenda, Pete? Of course. Firstly we're going to take a deep dive into some of our key tips for mastering Clarkship applications. Then we are lucky enough to be joined by Rose who will be answering some of our questions on how best to approach applications from the talent acquisition perspective, as well as the timelines for submitting Clarkship applications at Maddox. Sounds like we've got quite a bit to get through. So let's jump straight into it. Pete, would you maybe like to start by showing with the listeners your number one practical tip for approaching Clarkship applications? Thanks, Em. And when you mention practical tips, I cannot help but think back to about two years ago when I was squeezing my applications in about a week before the deadline in late July, coming off for European summer. And I cannot help but recommend that students give themselves enough time to write their applications. I assume that most students probably do not realise how long applications will take them to write. And our listeners should remember that writing a cover letter or answering questions about why you would like to join Maddox or any other firm for that matter needs to be really specific. And this is quite difficult in time consuming when you might not have experience in the legal industry yet. Consider the time you'll take researching which points you want to include. Give yourself time to write up your applications and also think about whether you will need to allocate time to complete psychometric testing. When going through the process, it was also surprising how long it took to actually submit applications on the firm websites. So just consider that sort of additional time. Em, what about you? That's a really good tip. I also wish that I had allocated myself more time when I was applying. I think my number one tip is to really think about who you are and what matters to you before you start writing your cover letters. I remember when I was applying, my dad asked me how I would answer the question, "Tell me about yourself." Seems simple but when I was faced with this question, despite thinking that I understood myself and what mattered to me, I found myself waffling and sounding very, very unsure of myself. So, I'm sometimes sitting down and thinking about the three things that make me me and the things that differentiate me from other people. I think once you have this down, you're able to better distill your own essence on paper. And not only does this help you sell yourself, but it helps ensure that you understand which firm is the best fit for you. I think that's a great point. There's nothing harder than the tell us about yourself question. Nothing worse. Alrighty. Well, onto my next tip. I also think that students should be mindful that in order to make your application stand out, the details in your responses can make all the difference, so it is best not to write your response and submit this straight away. Instead, come back to your cover letter the next day with fresh eyes to make additional changes. It can even help to ask a family member or someone else to proofread your responses, and that will make all the difference, as a new set of eyes often lifts the quality of a written response. This tip is ultimately related to my number one tip, which is to ensure that you leave enough time to drive your applications. The more time you allow, the more thorough and thoughtful your application is likely to be. That's a good one as well, Pete, and I love the call back to your first tip. My second tip is a very simple one. It's don't get bogged down on what other people are doing. Your friends might have applied at 50 places, and you might only be planning on applying it five. But remember that you're running your own race, and this is a very stressful process. It's obviously nice having friends that are going through the process with you, because they can support you and help answer questions, but just make sure that they don't cloud your vision or judgment. But that's enough from us. We've got Rose on the podcast, who's our head of talent acquisition here at Maddox. Rose has been working in recruitment for almost 20 years in Australia and internationally, and we've been lucky enough to have her here at Maddox for almost six years. I can't think of a better person's brain to pick about all things Clarkships. So Rose, welcome to the podcast. How are you going today? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. We're excited to hear the kind of new podcast focus and what you guys are doing, and share some knowledge and tips and tricks through our upcoming law students. Wonderful. We're super excited to have you here today as well. So I think I might kick us off with the first question. In your experience, what is something that students can do to ensure their Clarkships application stands out? We're thinking specific tips you might have for drafting a resume or a cover letter that will help them stand out through the process. I think there's a lot to be said for just having a really clearly laid out well-presented CV. We are looking at a lot of applications and having something that is easy to read, not too long, maybe maximum two pages that has your experience in chronological order and hobbies, interests, volunteering work you've done. That makes it very easy to kind of see and read. We're also still asking for cover letters this year, and that is another way that people can demonstrate their genuine interest in Maddox. So a well-late out, well-written cover letter is another way that you can make your application stand out. And what do Maddox specifically look for in applicants when they're, I guess, assessing those resumes in cover letters? So what do we look for in applicant's mathematics? I think, you know, over many years of doing this now, we do look for people who can demonstrate certain competencies. Obviously, that's something that we assess more in the actual interview process. But in terms of applications, it is, as I've said, it's a genuine interest in Maddox. It's having a well-rounded background, being able to show that you kind of are interested in some of the areas of work that we do and you've really engaged with that. And as I said again, just a well-late out cover letter and CV, make sure you're kind of double-checking your cover letter. I sometimes do see cover letters that are addressed to other firms or whether it's filling mistakes or things like that. So things like that just can really help you to stand out when you, you know, as I said, when it's all well laid out as well. I think also something that I like to do when I was applying was drawing on the particular firms values and linking that back to my experience. So I know like one of our core values here at Maddox is stewardship, which is pretty unique not any other firm that I am aware of, has it. So I pulled out some experiences that I'd had unlinked that in to kind of outline why not only was Maddox a good fit for me, but I was a good fit for the firm. I think that's a good point, M, and I recall referencing the stewardship value in my cover letter too. So we talk a bit more about what Maddox looks for in applicants and particularly how students can demonstrate their interest in Maddox and emphasise their skills in their applications. So we look for people who are genuinely interested in working with us and as I said, you can demonstrate that through a cover letter, through the university careers fairs that we go to or for contacting us directly. We look for well-rounded backgrounds, academics are important, but we don't have a benchmark, we're interested in work experience, things you've done outside of your studies as well. And when you come into an interview, if you are invited to interview with us, we ask you questions based on competencies. So I think skills and competencies is what we're really trying to assess as part of the application process. You touched on experience there, past work experience. I know when I was applying for applications, I didn't have too much experience working in a law firm. I imagine that many of our listeners might be in a similar boat and might be a little bit nervous about this. How would you recommend that students harness their non-legal work experience or other experiences to showcase their skills in an application process? So we're interested in any type of work experience that you've had. Legal experience doesn't have any impact on your application, it might make it slightly easier if you were to do a Clarkship with us because you would have a bit of an understanding of how law firms work, but we don't assess that. In general, work experience is useful. Customer service roles in hospitality and retail can really help people develop skills in customer service and problem solving which are really useful skills. But these are entry-level roles, the Clarkship, the Grad role, their entry-level roles. So there's no expectation that you will have extensive work experience in any industry really. I think that's a good point. And I remember in my Clarkship interview with Michael Taylor-Sans, who's a tax partner here, that a lot of my answers revolved around customer service because at the end of the day, I guess in our roles where it can come to an end. constantly communicating with clients about the work that we're doing for them and how we can help them. And I know for example, Charlotte was just talking off the podcast about how a client was just emailing her and how she needed to respond and what the best approach was. So I do agree that just showing that you can kind of think on your feet a little bit and that you've got the ability to be proactive and make that experience better for a client or customer. I think that that spot on that's the sort of experience that someone just needs to emphasize. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I remember talking about my days working backers delight in my cover letter. So it's good to hear that that's something that you would recommend students do. I also think another worry for students can sometimes be about their grades. And if that would have a huge impact on their ability to secure interviews. Rose, would you say that a student's grade have much weight when you're assessing their application? And how is this measured against other factors? Yeah, so in terms of academic grades, we don't have a cut off point. We don't have a benchmark. We do look at people's academics and if for some reason you've had extenuating circumstances where you've had a rough time at university and you wanted to put that in your cover letter, we're happy to take that into account. One of the things, and I know we're going to touch on this later, that we are trialing this year is a psychometric assessment. So a critical reasoning and behavioural questionnaire. And the reason we partly wanted to do that is we know that academics aren't everything and that people can have different experiences at university. That assessment tool looks to measure your critical reasoning of behavioural and will give us a bit more information about your capabilities as well. So, yeah, as I said, academics, we do look at them. At this point, we don't have a benchmark. And if someone's had a particular reason that they haven't perhaps done well in a semester and they wanted to address that, we always take that into account as well. And in saying that, I know when I was applying at Maddox in particular, I did write in my cover letter about my experience at doing admin law at uni because I really enjoyed it. I got a relatively good mark and it was one of the reasons that I was interested in Maddox because I knew that they offered that kind of work. So I think on the other end of the spectrum that can be a good thing to point out as well. Absolutely. And I think that is an example of you showing your genuine interest in Maddox and that you've done your research and that you can connect your interest and studies to the work we do, which is really important to do in your cover letter, I think. And you touched on psychometric testing there for a second. If we could focus on that maybe a little bit more, should students prepare for this or is that something that students should just approach very casually, I guess, with a fresh mind? How would you recommend students approach that process a bit more? Because I do know that it is a little bit daunting and students do find that where they don't understand actually what they're about. Yeah, and we have some information on our website about the psychometric testing that we're doing, which we'll explain it all in detail. And having myself done psychometric testing over the years, I think it does help to do some practice assessments, just so you can kind of get into the right mind, say you can, you know, you know, what types of questions you're going to be asked. And that will, you'll be able to have that opportunity with this assessment as well. The assessment that we're using is a bespoke one that's been designed specifically for law firms. And it looks at real life kind of scenarios that you might face in a law firm. And I know this sounds a bit geeky, but it's actually quite a fun assessment, you know, of all the ones that we looked at. This one we felt was the most kind of realistic and you could really relate to. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. I know that it can feel daunting and, you know, also when we higher experience candidates, we do psychometric testing and I just tell people there's no, you know, just go with your first instinct, don't overthink it. It's a data point in the process. It's not a screen in or screen out tool. It's our first year using it. So we will be running our standard process and still reviewing every single application as we always have done. And this will be kind of in the background as well. Thankfully that I didn't do psychometric testing when I first came here because I know I wouldn't like it. I'd actually quite like to try it. I think we might, yeah, we might see how wrong it would be. Rose, could you talk through the upcoming dates and process for the clockships here at Maddox in 2025? Yes, very exciting. Applications are open in Sydney and Canberra currently and they are closing on the 13th of July. Melbourne is opening on the 7th of July and closing on the 10th of August. And in terms of the application process this year, it's submitting a cover letter, CV and transcript and filling out some information about yourself and you'll then receive the link to complete the assessment. Shortlisted candidates will be invited to an information and networking evening and an interview with a partner and a member of our people and culture team. And the final step is new for this year. We'll be having coffee sessions at the end of the process where you can meet some lawyers from the teams and get to know more about the firm. Exciting and that obviously means that people can start preparing their cover lettering CVs now, if you like. As Pete said, get ahead of the process on that one. You won't regret it. Absolutely. So obviously the application process can be quite daunting for students. Just wondering why we've got you if you have any other top tips for our listeners that you might want to share. Yeah, so I recently ran a session for our graduate son, careers at Maddox. And one thing I often say to people is your career is a marathon, not a sprint. It can feel very daunting for students going into this process and it can feel like it's the most important step in your career. And whilst it can be a very important step, there are lots of different career paths in law and I would really recommend as much as possible trying to approach the whole process with curiosity and being curious about firms, about the work you do, about the people there. And through that, you'll meet people, you'll learn about the different firms and the type of work they do and you'll be able to start to really genuinely engage and that will come out in your application, it will come out in an interview. But also just remembering that not everyone finds the right role straight away. People might not end up as clerks, they might go off and do something else. But just saying genuine and curious and I'm sure that the vast majority of you in five years will have found your kind of career path and yeah and you look back at this time and think what was I so worried about? Yeah, I certainly look back on my experience of applying for car ships and think that I could have done with some advice like that. So I think that that will be really great for all our listeners. It does feel a bit daunting throughout it but I think you are right that everyone does kind of find their pathway a little bit and I know that later on in the season we are talking about alternative pathways and I think in that episode students we get a lot more perspective about if the process doesn't go the way that they ideally wanted it to go for them that there are really a lot of different pathways in order to get into particular careers. Yeah and I think as you know the graduates that we hire are actually a small number of the lawyers that we hire each year at Maddix and we have people who are joining us from government, from smaller firms, as experience candidates as well. So yeah there's a lot of different pathways to working here as well. Perfect. Now I think we're going to put you on the spot with our final question. This is something that we ask every guest who comes onto our podcast. We would just like for you to tell us what matters to you about working at Maddix. Yes, happy to answer that one and I do get asked these types of questions a lot in interviews and the thing that really matters to me is being able to collaborate and it's something that I am able to do in my role and really enjoy. Maddix is a very collaborative environment and you know collaborate in terms of who we're hiring on different projects on the kind of work that we do as well. I think that that really matters to me. I think that's a good point and I think that really touched on that in the last episode and I think we spoke to it. Thank you so much for all those insights Rose. I think students and listeners are going to find those really useful for the application process and I think that's probably the end of episode three and all we've got time for. Emma, did you have anything else for today? No, I just also wanted to thank Rose. That was incredibly helpful and it was really lovely to chat with you. It's my first time on a podcast so I'm very excited and yeah very excited to see all the applications coming in through our Clarkshire process. See you in episode four. Bye. Thank you for tuning into the Do What Matters podcast brought to you by Maddix on the mic. If you like today's episode and want to hear more make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. Learn more about today's topic by visiting maddix.com.au or follow us on our socials.