Speaker 1Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. At Harmony Bank, we
Speaker 2believe that better happens together. We're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success. Our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions. No big bank bureaucracy, just a custom approach to help you thrive. From business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs, Harmony Bank provides a secure, modern experience with a touch of Texas hospitality. We're Harmony Bank, where better happens together.
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Speaker 4O, O, O, O'Reilly Auto Parts. Woo! ♪ music playing ♪ ♪ music playing ♪ ♪ music playing ♪ Hello and welcome to the How Not to
Speaker 5Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. This is episode 145, and today's episode, Do Timeouts Work? I'm tackling head-on the challenge of what to do in the heat of the moment when our children make a pause. Do timeouts or naughty step work? And if not, what are the alternatives? Now, I came upon this sort of title and wanted to kind of do this. I had given a breakfast talk, and I felt this question had come up, and I felt that I hadn't really answered it particularly adequately. You know, afterwards when you reflect on something, you think, ah, I should have said this, and I could have said that. So, I wanted to do a more thorough job. So, here we are. Now, my advice has always been not to use the naughty step. ♪ music playing ♪ The simple reason that it takes a child who's experiencing some pretty big, sometimes scary feelings and emotions inside themselves, and it isolates them. Now, the reality is the naughty step is not typically used nowadays, certainly, in a punitive punishment kind of way, and is, in fact, more like a timeout, which I actually don't have an issue with as long as it is used at the right time in the whole big feelings. So, let me explain. Your four-year-old totally loses it. Substitute any age here. But they totally lose it because you said no, either to something they wanted, or something that they wanted to do, or something that they were doing that is not okay. So, they are throwing toys. They're screaming, they're crying, and they're not listening to anything you have to say. Now, an immediate timeout removes the child from the situation, which clearly diffuses the meltdown for anyone, anyone else who's around at that time instantaneously. You kind of move it away. Now, the meltdown may then continue, but it is isolated to the space where the timeout happens, as well as the big sensations in their body. They're worked through on their own, as well as potentially any internal dialogue, which could turn into a sort of a bit of an internalization that they're a bad person. We've all been there. We've all heard our child say that they're naughty and they're bad. And for some children, it does give them an opportunity to have space to themselves, which potentially could be seen as good. When we have a delayed timeout, what happens is it gives us time to acknowledge the emotion. It's this whole notion of name it to tame it. When we label an emotion, whether our children do it or whether we do it for them, we take that emotion from that amygdala, primitive emotional brain, and we move it around to more of the logical problem-solving part of our brain, our prefrontal cortex. The meltdown. The meltdown continues in situ, obviously, because they've not been removed from the situation. And so everyone can be pretty much trapped by it. The big sensations in our children's body and potentially the internalization, the internal dialogue, monologue that occurs, we're then on hand to reassure. And also, we're then able, with a delayed timeout, it's an opportunity to reflect on what they may do differently next time. And it can be seen as instructive. And problem-solving rather than punitive. With those sort of two different examples of what happens when we do an immediate timeout and when we do a delayed timeout is my overall view is use timeouts at the right time, with the right intention, and sparingly. And I say this because the research is pretty clear. Timeouts work in the short term because what happens is in lots of ways, we somewhat startle. We startle or shock the child, not because we're shouting, but it sort of disrupts what's happening. And so in that moment, so it can be helpful in the short term, but the behavior does return at the same rate afterwards. So it's not a method that is instructive long-term. So if we want behaviors to change longer term, so absolutely use timeouts in that short term because they can be really helpful, particularly when we've got a situation that's fast escalating, either with our children, on their own or whether they're siblings that are interacting in it as well. But if we really want the behaviors to change longer term, we have to adopt a longer term education and root cause piece. I'll talk you through my five top tips in terms of tackling this really, just not just in the heat of the moment, but really looking at it from the whole sort of package, if nothing else. The fifth tip I will give you is what to do in the immediate. But for me, if we want to tackle this long term, I want you to look at the whole thing. So that's what I'm going to be sharing with you today. So let's start with tip number one. Number one is really crucial that we understand the driver behind the behavior. And particularly if we are getting the same type of behavior on a regular basis. So obviously if your child just has one major tantrum, one major blowout, and you just, it's very unusual to their temperament, 100% go ahead, use the timeout process. I'll share the specifics. And tip five, but more often than not that there'll be certain patterns. It may well be that our child becomes quite overwhelmed and their default is to scream or to shout or to melt down in terms of tears, or it may well be that they get particularly physical. So really what we're trying to do is really think broader about how can we be instructive as well as use the timeout when we need to. So we want to try and do really understand what is, what could be driving this behavior. Is it, is it a difficulty articulating their feelings? Is it that they don't have the language available to them to be able to express themselves? Do they feel a lack of autonomy? Is there a jealousy going on? Is their confidence being slightly, are there issues around their confidence? Is it frustration? You know, there could be so many aspects to this that really, when we're dealing with just the timeout or just the behavior in the moment, we're always in that situation. We're always on that back foot. And always responding in that moment, rather than taking that step back and looking at the much broader picture. And that's what that does. So one of the things that I find really helpful is to try the ABC audit for a week. And the ABC is just simply A is for antecedent, B is for behavior, C is for consequence. So if you are finding that you're getting these big outbursts, what we want to look at is A, what was, what was happening just before they had their big meltdown? Or they had their tantrum or they started screaming, or they started pushing their sibling over, then B is the behavior, C is the consequence and the consequence isn't what we do to what we sort of try and instruct our child is the consequence for the choice they've made, but much more. What does my child get as a result of that behavior? So do we stop what we're doing in order to deal with it? Does their sibling react in a particular way? Do we then respond in a particular way? So we really want to think through what that might look like. Because it's that whole knowledge is power. And if we understand that sequence. of what might be going on before what happened what the consequence what our child gets from it it helps us now you know it won't change how best to respond to your child in the moment but what you may have is some supplementary work that you need to do beyond that so clearly there is the behavior that our children make in that moment that we have to respond to but if underlying all of that is a communication deficiency or a jealousy or a inability to self-regulate then we have to deal with what happens in the moment but we also have to run concurrently with that a piece of supplementary work so that's number one is that we really want to understand the driver and of course if you're anything like me you like you hear stuff and then you want to jump in and start trying and working on things and of course you can do that when I give you tip number five about how to actually manage it in the moment but it really is worth taking that broader view because it really helps because it means that the concurrent pieces that you do will really address the root cause and if we're finding that timeouts are working we want to use them sparingly and if we can get to that root cause as well we can give you up and running and effective much more quickly so that's number one number two then is once we've done that audit we then need to add in or address anything which your child may perceive as lacking now say this and that can be lacking in terms of the way that you are either in the moment or just generally them or both so that's kind of that's what we want to add in and remember we have to remember and I get asked about this quite a lot is this idea that you know we can be saying our children I give them you know so much time and so much attention I don't understand I'm saying this with love it is not that you are not giving them time and it's not that you're not giving them attention but if their lens through which that they're looking on the world is my parent is spending more time with my younger sibling or my older sibling or with their work or whatever it is we have to remember it's the lens with which our child views the world it doesn't have to be accurate it doesn't have to be real it's how they perceive it and so that's what we may need to address and that should show up in the if we've got a child who's maybe struggling with their communication so their thought processes are there but they're not able to communicate with their child they're not able to communicate with they're not able to articulate it it may well be particularly with really young children it may well be one way to address that is to come up with some signs or use sign language as way of ways for them to be able to communicate what they need if there's a difficulty in terms of self-regulation and their emotions we may need to be adding on a piece of regular work around adding to their emotional vocabulary talking about a toolkit helping them understand how emotions show up in their body if there's a jealousy piece you've got a new young child or you've got a child that requires more time from you because of their needs whatever those might be age stage of development then again we might need to be addressing conversations around different children needing different aspects of our time and maybe dedicating some very specific time to the child who's struggling with their big emotions as a way of helping them connect so it's really looking at what that might be it may well simply be that when we look at the abc it relates to how we're self-regulating because we're feeling overwhelmed we're feeling like we've got a million and one things that we're doing and we're not taking care of ourselves so the add-in or the thing that we need to address is actually about our own self-care so really look at it broadly and with with that open mind so the first one is understanding the driver behind the behavior the second is we add in or we address anything which shows up from that audit i'm super excited to announce that tickets are now live for my inaugural it takes a village to raise a resilient adult conference this is an in-person event and i cannot wait to meet so many of you there this conference is for you if you are a parent who wants to raise a resilient adult if you're a teacher an educator a nanny a therapist an aunt an uncle a grandparent or anyone who's invested in raising the next generation of resilient adults head over to the website link in the show notes where you can buy your tickets now the third one is work on removing our
Speaker 1therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments you bite your tongue instead of escalating you put your phone down instead of firing off that text you say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most nobody applauds those moments but they quietly change your life that's what growing feels like and that's exactly what grow therapy is here for grow is therapy that works covered by insurance sessions average 21 with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan there are no subscriptions no long-term commitments you just pay per session grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the u.s offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends you can search by what matters like insurance special t identity or availability and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days not the national 48 day average see if you could pay as little as zero dollars for therapy in seconds at grow therapy.com slash a cast that's grow therapy.com slash a cast grow therapy.com slash a cast availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan at harmony bank we believe
Speaker 2the better happens together we're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions no big bank bureaucracy just a custom approach to help you thrive from business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs harmony bank provides a secure modern experience with a touch of texas hospitality we're harmony bank where better happens together
Speaker 5harmony bank provides a secure modern experience with a touch of texas hospitality just a touch of texas hospitality just a touch of texas hospitality you need to consider in step three often you've no doubt heard the term about when children become dysregulated so when our children experience a big emotion and it's big and it's huge to them because they're living their life in the present children don't have the same ability and particularly when they're young about this notion of delayed gratification i want it and i want it now and so everything that we say no to or we can't do or whatever they might be feeling then carries a huge amount of weight it's quite you know it's really intense for them so their emotional dysregulation and that turmoil and think about a glitter jar with glitter going all over the place yeah and swirling around that's how it feels when they experience a big emotion that needs to be met by us being emotionally regulated in that moment for as many times as we can possibly do we are never ever going to do it a hundred percent of the time because our children will always at some point and many times press a button trigger something in us be at the moment when we are least resourceful at our least calm our most stressed so we are going to have periods of time where we're going to shout and we're not going to respond as best we can but i do think that we need to be mindful of addressing and removing our big feelings in that moment and using few words it's not about sort of being cross but it's just about adopting and approach that tends to be much more matter of fact and i'll talk you through how we do that in the moment so that we remove our emotion from the language that we use for our children and that we look at their response from the lens of not the behavior but the emotion behind it you know the the child that's feeling isolated the child that's feeling overwhelmed the child that's feeling in their view neglected overlooked doesn't have to be true it's just simply how they're viewing it in that moment so it's really working on removing our big emotions and that might mean sometimes that we can say that we say to our children i'm really cross and i can't we'll talk about this later you know keeping everybody safe making sure that there's going to be no harm done to anyone and then returning back when we're feeling more emotionally regulated ourselves so the first is understanding the driver behind the behavior the second one is adding in or addressing anything that may be lacking in that situation the third is working on removing our big emotions the fourth one is about being super super clear in our communication about the distinction between the behavior and our children's character and we'll see this so some of you will be listening to this and knowing that you have a child who will always then internalize you know i'm a bad person look what i did i've upset everyone you know i and for some children that that language becomes quite hard to understand and i think that's really important and i think that's really important to understand and i think that's really important to understand extreme i don't deserve to be here and that's heartbreaking when our children say that so we have to make sure that when we're having those conversations with our children and in particularly because these are high heat high emotion moments is that we really try and communicate that distinction between the choice that they made of that behavior in that moment and who they are as a person. And we've all read the sort of the books that talk about, you know, you're not naughty. That was, you did something naughty. I mean, I'm not a massive fan of using naughty anyway as a language, but you know what, you'll get what I mean. It's simply this, the choice that they made in that moment. And I'll address that in the example that I give you, but it's really trying to make sure that we're super, super mindful. And if we haven't, you know, if in that moment we've lost it and we've said things that we wish we hadn't said, and we've said something that they may interpret as part of their character, rather than being isolated to the behavior, then we can still remedy that later. You know, it doesn't, I think we often worry as parents that once we've said something and put it out there, that that's it, we can't unravel it. And of course we can't unsettle. We can't say it, we've said it, but we can remedy it by going and having a conversation with our children afterwards, having that kind of discussion around, you know, I said, and that really wasn't what I meant. And that's a great way of modeling to our children, how we can make good, how can we reflect on choices that we've made in those moments and how we can remedy it. And that may well be an episode in itself. Let me know if you think that that's something, if you're often guilt-ridden about things that have happened that you'd like to make good, and you don't want to make good, and you don't always know how to do it, and particularly any specific situations, write in, contact at drmaryhand.com. And I will then make sure that we do another episode that's just on that remedying. So that's number four. It's about being super, super clear in our communication about the distinction between the behavior and the choice that they made in the moment and who they are as an individual. So they don't see that as part and parcel of who they are, just a choice that they made in that moment. Number five, I want to talk you through, what I would recommend that you do in the moment and how you might then choose to use the timeout. So what we want to do is we want to acknowledge, really focus on acknowledging the emotion behind the behavior, because what that's also really good is that means that the way that we approach and speak to our child and our behavior is always coming from that compassionate, okay, you've made a poor choice, but the emotion is valid behind it. So you can say something around, something like, we can all get angry, we can all get mad when things don't go our way, but it's not all right to throw things. So we've acknowledged the emotion, we've given them a label for it. That's the name it to tame it. Yeah. Yeah. But we've said, you know, but it's not all right to throw things. You didn't make a good choice. Yep. So we've made it really clear what it is that they haven't made a good choice. We can then, it's really crucial, we reassure our children that we still love them. That they're a good person. And then we allow the time out before we then regroup to talk about what might have been a better option to use next time or what they might try next time. So let's not tell them that they need to use the time to think about what they, what they've done because we've already told them. Yeah. We've already told them that they made a poor choice and we don't want to get caught in the, I'm a bad person narrative. So we've explained that they've got angry and we all know that they've made a poor choice in that throwing. So there's, and in my view, when we're talking about time out, there is no need to send them anywhere. Our children don't need to be sent to another space. We want to reassure them that they're okay. We want to help them work through the feeling if that's what they need. And then we want to remove ourself and give them no further time and attention. The time out in essence is a time where they're not going to be able to where there's no interaction and no attention from us, even if our children are trying to suck us back in. So what's a good thing to do when we're saying that we're then going to have that time out is to be really clear that we're all having time out and that there's going to be no discussion about things until a specific agreed time. And we need to also communicate how we will let them know when that time is up, because obviously if we're communicating this with a really young child, they're not looking at a clock. Yep. So we might agree that time out is when I come back in or time out is when I say, when we sit down and have a snack, but giving them some clear marker about when they will know that that time out, and this is all something that we need to say in advance so that when we then withdraw the speaking, when we then withdraw the attention, we're not getting sucked into having to answer or clarify something. So we just want to say, this is what's going to happen. There'll be no conversation. Um, in order to make sure that we all get this time out, maybe reflect on what we might do differently and clarify that they understand that that's what is going to be the case. Obviously we've got to adapt and modify our language to the age and stage our child is in. We're really young children. We just simply say time out. And then we just don't give them any more time and attention. Older children, we can explain that there's a time out, and it will be back time in at this marker, whatever that might be. And obviously with even older children, we can be really specific around timings. So when it is, when that time is up, we want to go back to the incident immediately and discuss options for next time. We don't want to protract this out. So it's best to, we've given them the time out because it was very specific to a specific pattern of behavior, a poor choice that they made. We need to revisit that so that we can then have that discussion and then move on. So we go back to the incident immediately. We discuss options for next time in a calm, almost matter of fact, not in terms of a dismissive, but we take our emotion out of it. We don't get in this like, why do you keep doing this? And this is not fair, not kind. And, but we're simply a, that's not, it's not, you made a, you made a poor choice. We can feel mad, but we, we just don't, we don't throw things. We don't push people. We don't say unkind things. How might we do things differently next time? What could you do? Again, adjusting it for the age and stage of our children. So we want to reassure them that they are still loved and then move on, revert back to play or whatever it is that might be happening. When we look at it from the lens of these five things, we're dealing with the behavior in that moment. And we're dealing with it in a constructive way, but we're also running alongside this education piece, which then helps our children equips and tools them up because in essence, children don't respond in these huge tantrums indefinitely. They're doing it as a response to a feeling that they've got. And so if we're dealing with a whole package, the idea would be that we should see a shorter duration of this, these particular periods of them feeling as if they're slightly at the mercy of their big feelings. So just as a quick recap, the five are, we start by understanding the driver behind the behavior. We then add in and address anything which may well be lacking. We work on removing our big emotions from the situation. We get super, super clear in our communication to make that distinction between the behavioral choice and who they are as a person. And then we work through by acknowledging the emotion, the poor choice, and then administering the timeout in terms of number five. Now, my give this week is going to be these top five in that order, because then that should help you in terms of what you need to do at the end, but also the things that we ought to be looking at in advance and running alongside for the education piece. And so that will help you as a reminder, but it also helps you in terms of annotating and practically using as well. So as usual, head over to my free resource library, drmaryhand.com forward slash library, where you'll find the link to download the resource. All you need to do is pop in your email address and you'll get instant access, not only to this week's resource, but all the other free resources across all my podcast episodes. As ever, if you have enjoyed this episode, I would love it and be eternally grateful if you could follow and review this podcast so that others can find us and we can spread the love. So until next time.
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