Do Sports Fans Want To Do Homework? | Hour 2

You are listening to The Down Laboratory show. In partnership with the Draft King Sports Act. Now live in all 50 estates. (upbeat music) ♪ Big game or not a big game is presented by the owner ♪ ♪ Lawn mower go from manscaped ♪ You know about that lawn mower go, Dan? That's right, it's for the groin and body hair. You know why? You know why you need that? It's called the lawn mower. - Why do you ask me four questions without letting me answer any of them? - That's right. - Manscaped. Roy, hit it. - Howdy folks, welcome to Big Game, or not a big game with Jonathan Zaslow. - That's right, big game and not a big game. Let's get things started here. Dan, I'll come back to you. Roy, what do you got? - We got number 10, LSU, going into a 4-1 Kentucky team. Kentucky a bit surprising here, early in the season. Big game and not a big game. - Kentucky has some good wins this year. They won on the road, Texas A&M. They had last second victory last week against South Carolina's Shane Beamer. Oh my God, your days are numbered. But come on, what are we talking about here? LSU, whoo, LSU, Kentucky, not a big game. LSU's a good question, not a big game. Mike, what do you got for me? - Oregon looks to have stemmed the tide. They are starting a backup quarterback against a UCLA team that Oregon head football coach Dan Laning says reminds them a lot of Indiana, UCLA, Oregon. Big game or not a big game. - Mike, you know about that Mario crystal ball merchant over there in Oregon. - The merchant? - Dan Laning, that's a Mario crystal ball. - Merchant, merchant. - That's a Mario crystal ball, merchant. - That's right. Number 13, Oregon, number 21, UCLA. I've heard those comparisons at UCLA and Indiana. This is not the first time that I've heard that before. - Don't forget to go. - I'm very interested in seeing what UCLA has made of them this week. In Eugene, 21 UCLA, 13 Oregon, that's a big game. - Now, did you make a prediction there by making them UCLA saying they're not going to take the out? - I don't know what you're talking about, Dan. Chris, big game and I have a game. - Saturday, 330. Infosigian Stadium, 75 degrees. - There was a bit of a list in that word. - Eastern Michigan at Akron. - Wait a minute. - Why are you making a mockery? - The zips. - Why are you doing that? - I'm genuinely curious. - Zip to your mouth. - Where is that stadium? - Infosigian stadium. - But who's a home team? - Akron. - It is not a big game. - You're making a mockery of it. - You're not respecting the game. - Don't make a mockery, zips. I mean, big game, not a game. - I got one. That's not on Saturday, it's tonight. And it's not an Infosigian Stadium or whatever that is. - It's right across the street. Guys, I'm going to the Miami Heat preseason home opener. I am going to go witness the gospel of the honest, up close and personal. And I will have a report tomorrow. I'll give you guys all our news. - So what do you ask me? - Heat versus Pelicans preseason. - Heat, home opener. Heat fan gets to see Yannis for the first time, even though it's preseason. You know about that Gail Nelson, new PA announcer? - Wow, I'm excited. - How about that? That's tonight as well. You know about that Zion? You don't have to, we never place. Pelicans, heat, preseason. It's not a game. - What? - That preseason. - It's not a game, it's not a game. - Dan, one of my great regrets in life is Gail Nelson was a guest on Friday's show. - I grilled him. - I wasn't here for it. Guys, I have the greatest thing. I've held onto this for literally about 15 years. When I was scouting, I was on the road. I'm going to all these games all over. I went to an Oakland University game. Do you guys know what Oakland University is? - That's right. - It's a Michigan. - It's in Michigan, Detroit, no? It's outside of Detroit, in the-- - Oakland Soundings. - Kent Known. - So, yeah, that's where Kent Knownland went. So I went to go see I think North Dakota State versus Oakland. And at Oakland University, 15 years ago folks, when a guy would make a shot of an assist, right? Let's say, oh, three point field goal, Jonathan Zaslow, everyone cheer, and then the PA guy would say, "Thank you, Dan Lebertard." - To the guy who made the assist. 15 years, I've held on to this like, we should do that here in the NBA. Someone needs to do it. But all these guys, they're already sabers like, "Hey, you can't talk to me." I've already had this thing been doing it this way. I'm not gonna change all of a sudden. But now, for the first time, I have the opportunity to give something to a PA guy who's starting his first day on the job. Tonight, I will go to Gil Nelson. I will shake his hand and I'll say, "You have to do this." Because why wouldn't we want to celebrate assists? - Helping. - Helping. The idea scene, you're like, "Imagine, yada's under the gumbal!" And then everyone cheers and say, "Thank you." Bam at a bio. - Nah. - It's 10-30. We haven't talked Stephen A. Lane Johnson yet. What's going on with you? You all right? - Can we relive when Gil Nelson was in with us when he introduced Zaz like he would if he was a starter for the heat? - At 5-7 and three-quarters at guard from Santa Fe Community College, Jonathan Zazlo. - Yeah. - I like it, I like it too. I like it. - Goosebuck, come on, buddy, come on. - I like it. - I like it. - I thought you had a facial expression. You had a reaction to that. - Well, because I think that's not squabble. - Mental illness, sports, media, Stephen A. Double Down. I mean, it's perfect for us. - Nah. - I mean, you were saying during the break that David Samson had reached out to you with some sort of Bartman update. - He sure did, then. Well, he was, while arguing with me about Karl Anthony Towns, he provided this update about Bartman saying, quote, "Bartman was in foul territory while the guy last night was in fair territory." I said, yeah, but he interviewed with what had been the last out. He said, "Moyza Zaloo told me he would not have caught that ball." - That's so messed up. - I maintained forever. - "Moyza Zaloo" should feel deep shame for what happened to Steve Bartman, deep shame. Not, Bartman doesn't get that reaction. None of that happens if not "Moyza Zaloo" throwing a tantrum like a child over a ball that he was not going to catch. - I am today years old, learning that he could not have caught it. - No, he could not have caught it. - He just said he couldn't have caught it. - He could have caught it. - The ball was clearly in foul territory, though. That's not his, the fan has the rights of the ball and "Moyza Zaloo" like a child. I'm going to rewatch it. - Okay, thank you. You get back to us on that. And while you're at it and maybe the answer to this is obvious to others, I think Zazlow said of Shane Beamer, his days are numbered, is that phrased? Does that come from execution, from prison, from days are numbered, I'd like. - He could have 100% caught that ball. He could have caught it in foul territory. - I don't think so. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. - That is it. - Yeah, he could have gone to the club. - 100%, he has the right goal. - This is like Tony saying that the field goal was good. Bartman has the right 100%. - 100%. I'm not, everyone is saying it right now. - No, you guys are insane. He could have caught it. - Absolutely could have caught that ball. - It's hidden in his glove. - No, he could have caught it. - Sure. - Jeremy, what you're not allowed to do is walk into the room and say who was saying that when a mean set a minute earlier when you weren't here, the David Samson was saying that. - Well, he can't, I wasn't here. - Yeah. - Just be silent in those instances, like-- - In all instances. - Well, not in all instances. Just-- - Not a bad note. - Got you. - Most instances. - No, I took the note. Just when you're not in the room and we've set something up and I mean, it's clearly set something up with credentials and names and sourcing. You don't come in because you haven't been listening and make the whole show revolve around your narcissism because the show can't be the show unless you're in the middle of it. - That's my bit. - I'm gonna tell you something. I'm very down on Jeremy today. - I gotta be honest with you, Dan. - Teppid commissioner. - Oh, I'm not-- - Teppid this. - Not Teppid. - I told the mean. - I have told the mean. - Let him set up what the objection is before you object to the objection. - Okay, I'm good. So the audience can know what he's talking about. - Because? - So a mean lost last week in the bucket. Fair and square. He is challenging whether or not he has to do a punishment. And of course, it's the commissioner, Teppid commissioner, who is hearing him out. A mean so far is winning this dispute because the Teppid commissioner is not doing anything about it. - Hold on, first of all. - Done plenty. - Why am I in this? - You haven't done anything. - Why am I in this? I presented a very strong case based on precedent. - Why are you talking like that? - What's the case? What is the controversy? Is anyone going to tell us why it is that Jeremy is a Teppid commissioner? Is anyone going to tell us what a mean, controversy, and objection is? - Fair commissioner. - I will set this up for you, Dan. A mean was involved. - A mean didn't like that. - That's what a Teppid commissioner does. Just leaves. - Just doesn't handle a problem. - So I pulled twice. I put the first helmet back. I pulled twice and the team, the second team that I pulled lost. A mean didn't like that I put the first helmet back, but here's the detail that he always seems to omit when he is lodging this complaint. It's that the helmet that I put back was a Carolina Panthers. They were playing the Cleveland Browns. Carolina Panthers lost to the Cleveland Browns. So had I held on to the Carolina Panther helmet, he still would have lost. Ladies and gentlemen of the court, the fine Mr. Michael wants to present a case that my objection was about to throw him back up the helmet to give you an illusion to distract you from the truth. The truth of the matter is, it was never about the putting back of the helmet. It was about the pulling of a first helmet to begin with. I like to cite years of precedent on this here program that when someone is in a segment and is going to leave the segment early, we have done one of two things either. Number one, present that individual with the chance to pull his helmet or her helmet because we love that, his or her helmet, ahead of everyone else's and then the Reaper comes back later or we move the appearance of the Reaper to early in the program. That's how we've done it for years and it was a system that worked and everyone loved it. Now all of a sudden, now all of a sudden, Amino Hassan in the studio, step top of studio, should we have had him pull it early, should we have had him pull it later. No, we are going to get this into over Michael. No, he's doing a Southern attorney in a Mississippi courtroom. Yeah, but if you watch Coyote versus Zach, me, this is a whole fun like I believe it's a good impression. He's wearing overalls or suspenders, I said, I said, I said down lebatar, you're going to go to Buffalo with Bernie Pormley, Mike Ryan, and the Jigs, this is the down lebatar show. This is why he's tepid. There's a case being made right now and the commissioner has left the room and is waiting outside. Can you imagine? Can you imagine if the NFL, there's a case going on in the NFL and Roger Godell doesn't agree with what's happening. He gets up in the middle of the case and he just waits outside in the lobby. That's a tepid commission. I got to be honest with you. I side with Jeremy on this, Chris was the last drop in a bucket on Jeremy's fed up with everything that's happening here, okay? But it isn't my fault that Jeremy left the room, came back and the first question he asked was to something that had been answered, that had been answered 35 seconds. Stay in that. So the gentleman, the guy made it a go, but the way that it worked was everyone who's listening to this knew the answer to that question except the person asking it because he wasn't in the room. I like to imagine that he was asleep and he woke up to say who said that? So what is the ruling then? What's going to happen here? Jeremy in the commissioner, this is something that's always a problem. We never have commissioners who have any kind of strength around here. You'll be doing a punishment. I literally got, I mean, multiple costumes because he wouldn't decide on which one that he wanted to use. So I spent time, sorry, I mean. So I literally got him multiple costumes. He said, oh, I'll do the, the Odyssey costume. And I said, okay, great. And then he said, no, I'll be in character. I won't wear the costume. And I said, no, you will not, absolutely not. We fought back and forth in a group chat over and over and over again. I insisted that he said, fine, I'll do early on. So what did I do? I worked with our crack crew to make sure that we had both costumes on hand for a mean so that he could even have his choice in the matter, but then he's here on Thursday. And by the way, had to fight with Mike and another group chat until ultimately, by the way, he came. The even Michael was able to cave because I am anything but a tepid commission, I'm on top of my shit. No, you were wrong. Good speed. You were wrong. I had to take a mascot from the losing team. I had the saints. And the guy was trying to make me dress like a dog. That saints aren't? No, no, I picked a young recent saint that passed away and I wanted to share his story with the world. And yeah, I might have just been wearing a red polo, but that is a saint. Dan, you should have seen this morning. I'm doing my work at the table out there, minding my own business and a mean while he is eating breakfast. I did not have a bagel today. A mean while he's eating breakfast, okay, is laying into Jeremy about how he's not doing any of this. Jeremy's sitting there in the fetal position. That's tepid. But not tepid. And what he just said, like, he's just, he's just announced in front of everyone before the rule. No, and he's going to get a fine otherwise. Like I am the commissioner. This is a new era of this bucket. Because you're citing precedent, I mean, that's ridiculous. Like you are absolutely paying this punishment and if you don't pay it today, you will have to pay it off on another full day where Dan is here because we all know this is for his kink. Tomorrow does not count. Oh, sorry. Mike, you dressed as Jake from Steve Farm? Johnson's right there. It's a great way to switch gears. How do we feel about Jeremy as a Halloween costume? He's going to be. Jeremy? He's going to put one apron on top of the other NB, the NBA's second apron. So scary. Oh, good. Virtues. No. Do you like that as an idea says? I do. I can't wait. It's a pretty easy costume, Mike. I'd like to steal that. Really? Yeah, I like it. We all have to act very terrified, though. Whenever he comes around. Look at that. Like, can I be the first apron? You can be the first. You can be James Dolan and just be really scared of the second apron. I'll get everyone else for not understanding. The thing about the second apron is, I was asked this question yesterday. Why is it called an apron? And I said, I don't know. It's an apron. Like, it's a threshold. Really is what we're talking about. These are thresholds. What? How's an apron a threshold? Apparently, Stephen A. thinks grief and mental illness are the same thing. Get it on the poll at Levitard Show. Do you know why they call it an apron? Because I don't know the answer to your question. I mean, is our basketball expert? He is an executive, and the question is not something I can answer. Everyone's teeing off, even colleagues at ESPN, more than comfortable to throw a CV and A under the bus, and you do not put Stephen A. Smith in a corner. I'll tell you that right now. Wouldn't it be an awning? Right? An awning. Like, a second awning makes sense, right? I think it's just biting his way out of it, and he will not capitulate. A rung. Different rungs on a ladder. The second rung. Maybe that does sound high enough, right? The higher rung, lower rung, higher rung. It's like a gerbil trying to fight its way out of Richard, here's another region. Does it seem to you as random as it being a second kimono? Yeah. Like, a second apron, a second kimono like, why isn't a, why isn't an apron? Why are more people asking why isn't an apron? See, Stephen A. says we just didn't understand what he meant, and he thinks that's gonna suffice. A poncho, perhaps. It's the second poncho. A second raincoat, right? Like, what other garments are there? Maybe, maybe like a belt? Second belt. Oh, there you go, because you got to tighten your belt when you want to save money. Could have merely had to go away, if he said, my bad. Do you think Stephen A. Smith will ever stay my bad? Jeremy, do me the favor, please, of looking up what it is that the origins of days being numbered are. I don't know if it's a prisoner, just, you know, marking days in his cell. I'd like to actually know what the origins of that. You can also find for us why the second apron is called the second apron. It's a protective layer. That's it. Yeah, so it could be like the coat or the rain jacket. They chose apron. Yeah, but I would think that the first apron is fine enough. Like second apron. Second one. Why there's no third apron? Like, what is happening there with the apron? So do you believe? I mean, if you had to guess, I percentage of NBA fans who understand the second apron. Very low. Extremely low to the point where, again, my friend who asked me why they call it an apron. I had to say, you know what? You don't need to know any of this. I think this is one of the great downfalls of sports fandom and the way we consume sports is that everyone feels like they have to go get an accounting degree to understand and the reality is, no, you don't. It's so unfanfully. Just watch the product and then ask the question, hey, can we go out and trade for Wemba Nyaman? I'll say no because of this rule or that rule. You don't have to know the rules. You just need to watch what you're seeing on the court. You do have to know the rules. Part of being a fan is having conversation about training for this player, signing this player. Fans like talking about that stuff and the NBA has made it incredibly unfan friendly. But this is a real part of basketball discourse. But I would argue 15 years ago, it wasn't. People just cared about the product. They might say, oh, I wish we could get so-and-so, but they weren't like pouring over the collective bargaining. No, man, 15 years ago was as simple as how much money does team X have under the salary cap? Okay, cool. They could sign that guy. Yes, but also it was stuff like, hey, can we trade for so-and-so? And I was the guy who had to say, no, because the salaries don't match and all this other stuff. And my goal is a 12 episode investigative podcast from a Hollywood reporter hosted by veteran journalist Alan Salkit. It takes all the well. episodes to get down to the bottom of Richard Gears bottom. Nick Wright mentioned the other day when he was on with us that sports fans don't want to do homework. And I think today's sports fan wants to do homework more than any other sports fan that's ever existed. And I think it's to the detriment of their enjoyment of the product. I think fans were happier when they just watched their team, cheer, boo, maybe even pine for help can we get someone. But when they started getting into oh I got along with the second apron and the taxpayer mid-level exceptionally that's not for them to worry about in the same way that like I watch football. I still don't really know how the NFL salary cap works like franchise tags and all this I was like there's a lot of shit in NFL business that I don't get but I don't need to get it all I need to do is watch James Winston. We missed the window. Stephen A started first take with a lengthy apology and said quote here's the reality of the situation. I was wrong. The thing that I would ask a mean and the audience here and I'd ask it as a poll question as well because I really don't know how this is going to come back as an answer. Do you want to be a smarter fan? Yes or no because very often what I am finding is that sports fans who are the most passionate and the most religious about this the most fervent they want more and more information they want more and more data they want to know better what it is that they're watching. It's not true of every one and I would say an American society at large we have a general literacy problem on where it is that people presently are on just learning but I don't think it's necessarily true of sports fans. Yes some are formed but I think I can form a pretty good argument that the sports fan that exists today is the smartest sports fan that has ever existed on average. I think sports fans like having information when it pertains to the game like in baseball learning about on base percentage that was important learning about slugging percentage that was important fans don't want to hear about first and second aprons and the punitive measures that come along with being in the tax that is nothing to do with the actual game. So what changed from last night to this morning because he doubled down and now you apologize who got to or did he realize the error of his ways and is turning over a new leaf. I just kind of wish I was dumber overall. Like it's it's kind of miserable knowing it's the best ignorance is bliss. I really wish I was a dumber person. I'd be so much happy. It's so much fun dude. It reminds me of a scene from broadcast news. You can be ignorant and not numb. The scene it the very unlikeable is it Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Love her. She in the movie is a bit off-putting and condescending and her boss says to her it must be nice to be smarter than everyone else or it must be nice to know everything and she's like no it's terrible. Absolutely. It is it's miserable. What are the origins of days are numbered? Of course comes from the Bible and so in Daniel 526 it says God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it and then it was brought into a colloquial terms of course the discovery of witchcraft from 1584 where they wrote that a man's body was subject to death and hath his days numbered. What did you find at ghost Lane Johnson's a ghost? What did you find out about the second apron or the apron or why it's called an apron? Yeah it's just the protection. It doesn't tax apron doesn't seem to come up anywhere else which is strange. I assume that this was just a general financial term but no the immediate hit is to go to the NBA and where they have the first apron and the second apron and it's just a border adding sort of limits and protections. It's protecting the team from spending too much protecting the owners from hot oil. Yeah it's just gonna ask protecting home from what? This is like the what's it save college sports actor whatever protect college horse it who's it who's it protecting like yeah not the athletes it's protecting the colleges down laboratory let's throw to my boy Jeremy Tasha who's sideline right now cash money what's it got more weight? Jeremy Tachi thanks Jacks this is the down laboratory. Speaking of that I saw that ESPN has been promoting a six-part documentary series about Nick Sabin. I participated in one of those recently I'm assuming it's this one I'm assuming there's not a second Sabin documentary and I'm curious whether you guys are curious about what's going to be revealed in that documentary you can make the argument that Nick Sabin is one of the great winners of all sports time you can make the argument that he's one of the best leaders to ever emerge from sports in reputation and this last act of his career is an amazing evolution gets out at exactly the right time and just starts advocating on behalf of let me be the ambassador on behalf of protecting this better than anyone else can protect it are you guys interested in that documentary? I am because I played a clip on game day and I was really into the clip that they played on game day it premieres tonight on ESPN the first episode and then upon that program ending all the episodes are going to be available on demand I read one review of it and says that it's good but it only gets his inside Nick Sabin as he allows you to get there but like even still limited access and not the full story is plenty captivating from the clip that I saw I'm going to tell you right now and maybe this is bad on me there is no part of they say hey we have a docu series on an ESPN employee that is going to be airing on ESPN that I think is going to be even a smidgen of objective or illuminating or interesting in any way I like it when it's Sabin tries to be an asshole and like the clip that I saw like he was talking that shit and I think that he's one of the more important sports figures of my life and he is way more interesting than Bill Bella check and he yes he is much better in front of the microphone than Bill Bella check he's had a more interesting story I don't I don't like either guy I thought Sabin immediately came off like a ball while Bella was was his typically unpleasant I think when when Nick Sabin speaks I listen I think he's a very captivating speaker I think he's one of the best leaders of our time and I want to find out about the story and I want to marvel at the success that he had I have a handful of questions about what it is that you guys said and a story to tell you as well I think that I heard Dominique Foxworth the other day I think this was with Beaumonti where Beaumonti was asking as Nick Sabin was being brought out to advocate on behalf of this act that we talked to Cory Booker about yesterday he told you hey what ESPN is doing there is Bogus and Sabin is obviously in bed with a rights holder and that rights holder wants to protect its football money and football in general which doesn't mean paying the athletes and because I only saw a clip and I was listening passively I'm pretty sure I heard this correctly somebody please correct me if you think I have this wrong but it seemed to me that Dominique Foxworth wasn't allowed on the set with Sabin as somebody who's labor friendly who knows a lot about the NFL PA and I haven't talked to Dominique about this so I'm being a little irresponsible yeah in fact let me know because I did see a quote but he did not like Nick Sabin's appearance he was made a comfortable they say we can probably just call him and ask him but because we're live and I'm stuck up in there but I don't know what it is that I'm saying is true but I think I heard it correctly when I and it bothered me right because I would love somebody to challenge Nick Sabin on the air about this especially somebody with Dominique's credentials and it would bother me if I were Dominique or if I'm just a viewer that they don't allow Dominique to do anything that's challenging and this shows their hand and because Dominique's not a rabble rouser here to just debate and kind of like go for low blows or whatever it's a very intelligent guy who's gonna I would think create great television of us having the two different sides being discussed intelligently but you don't believe that Sabin would be good with like a debate. Sabin has not been challenged whatsoever he's not gonna want it's not been challenged whatsoever the only thing that they they do they they put their hands up hey on pro the players get some money like and they they think that that's virtuous the last time Sabin got challenged on ESPN air was when Shane Gillis called him Indiana Jones Alabama Jones oh my god he was pissed he did not like that joke the other story that I wanted to tell you in terms of where it is that these private protections can help some folks Alex Rodriguez has had one of the most amazing reinventions I've ever seeing from someone who was stained by a cheating scandal, every broadcast team that wanted to put a voice on television was trying to hire Alex Rodriguez and Alex Rodriguez at one time. Do I have this right? He was working for Fox and ESPN at the same time. Was he not? There was, yeah. For a while. And in the midst of all of that, Billy Corbin, the extraordinary documentarian, did a great documentary that you can still see that was called screwball about how ridiculous A-Rod's cheating was and all the cheating was in baseball. And because ESPN had that documentary and because ESPN had A-Rod, they let the documentary go. They could have just killed it. So salute to them for actually allowing Billy Corbin to have it back so that he could put it somewhere. But they were protecting their own there in a way that obviously is a conflict. And so if ESPN is doing a Nick Sabin documentary, does it have any chance of being warts and all? Does it have? Because I think it's going to be interesting. I think Nick Sabin is interesting. But if you can't get close to the truth and it's going to be propaganda and it's just going to be, hey, let's show this to Nick and see how he feels about it. And give him some creative control over how he's presented. That becomes far too diluted for my viewing experience. I think we're making a bunch of assumptions based off of one review that I alluded to because like he does take you inside these moments. And I do think when it comes to Miami, he has his regrets. And he's been pretty forthright in sharing those and I imagine we'll learn something here. In his, in the clip that they showed on college game day, it was all about his returned to Baton Rouge and it played into Lane Kiffin's return to Oxford. And he was speaking truthfully. And like I said, it was captivating and the people that they have weighing in on these moments in their career do give voice to other side and how much vitriol there was for him. So I think it's going to be pretty good. I'm not making assumptions. Mike, I'm legitimately asking questions. And when you mentioned that Nick Sabin has some regrets about Miami, you know that I have some regrets about how I talked about Nick Sabin after he left Miami because I did not have a crucial detail that I would have to have. And it's a detail that would have explained some things about how he left Miami. And it's that Wayne Heizanga, the owner of the dolphins, told him as part of his recruitment of Nick Sabin who did not want to go to the pros, didn't want to come to Miami, didn't want to test his ego in the NFL, the way Urban Meyer needed to Heizanga told Nick Sabin that if at any point he wanted to leave or was unhappy, he could. And it's why when he left, Heizanga had a press conference in which he was not angry at all because as part of Nick Sabin's recruitment, he just said, look, if this is bad for you, you can just stop and I will not have any problem with that absent that information. And I went really hard at Nick Sabin and was over the top in terms of calling him names and I have great regrets about that. I know I'm guilty of this, but I tend to check out on documentaries before I see any of it because in my mind, it's not going to be the documentary that I want to see. But let me ask you, was the Michael Jordan documentary as forthright as it could have been? No. Jordan played a lot of things very close to the Vez and there were plenty of things that you wanted to hear about and you did it. Was it awesome? Hell yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome, but it was also a massive commercial and that aired at a time where we didn't have a lot of original programming. We didn't have any sports programming and on top of all of that, you're talking about the greatest mythology in sports, which is Michael Jordan and Nick Sabin obviously storied career. He is nowhere near the size of a myth that Michael Jordan, but in his, in his sport though, he is the greatest, the same way that Michael Jordan is the greatest. The thing about mythology though, you're right, obviously you're right. I mean, but the qualifier I would offer to you is there is no greater mythology in sports than how we love the idea of leadership of a person that everyone who's strong wants to follow. Like, that mythology is forever interesting to people who believe that the muscle can't do it without the brain, that the muscle can't do it without the discipline. And this is one of the great discipliners of all time. Yes, you're talking about a concept. I'm talking about an actual specific figure. The mythology of Michael Jordan, which by the way is all of that, is the muscle and the mind and the leadership and all. Everything that you describe as a concept in one human being. I'm fascinated to learn some insight. I think he's a great leader. There's a great speech that he gave about getting the right guys on the bus and high achievers mediocre people that I think is like one of the more impactful speeches that I use. High achievers don't like mediocre people. Yeah. Don't like high achievers. My job here is to get the right guys on the bus. And it was a great speech and I, the same way that people turn to the win or within. I think, I think Nick Sabin in terms of leaders is of that ilk, but also he once stepped over a convulsing player in Miami. I want to know if he's learned from trial and error, from leadership. You don't think also though that was the difference between coaching student athletes and coaching professionals. Yeah. And I think also it's a difference just to why he's not coaching now because the dynamic change. I think Nick Sabin is really good at leading when the buck stops with him. I think he knows how to run a program. I think he knows how to hire coaches. I think he knows how to instill a culture and also get coaches that can get the dudes. I, I think for that error in college football, there's a reason why he dominated because he was a very best at it. He also could reach a wide variety of people because I've heard a number of former players talk about his excellence and his wisdom and Ricky Williams is among them. And he felt understood by very few people in the world, never mind coaches. So you would think that a disciplinarian who could reach across all sorts of aisles to where it is that human beings are, that any information that you're getting, even if it's packaged and polished and a little bit of propaganda is more information than you already have about something that people are wildly interested in.