Divine Intervention: Amy's story- Divorced & Remarried

[Music] We've never seen a perfect marriage, but we have seen marriages full of laughter, conflict, repair, growth, and hope. We're Aaron and Jenazine, marriage and relationship coaches, and followers of Jesus. We explore what it looks like to let the gospel set the standard, shaping our relationships beyond just our feelings and beliefs. We share vulnerability from our own story, and from years of coaching couples through the patterns that bring life, and the ones that don't. So you don't have to figure it out alone. This is Marriage Lab. Hello, and welcome to a special edition of Marriage Lab. I am here. It's just Jenazine, and I'm here with a new friend named Amy, and Aaron's at work, and we have thought about trying to coordinate it, but we decided that we were just going to record this episode solo. And for those of you listening, just a little context behind this episode, Amy and I have kind of, from afar, known each other for a year maybe or so. And then this fall, after she took my time management course, we had an opportunity where we got to do about an hour, heart to heart. And when she was sharing with me, I didn't know this testimony was on your life, you know? But when she was sharing this testimony of how her and her husband got married, had a hard spot, a hard spot, got divorced, and then are back together reconciled. I was when she was sharing all the details like, you guys, the Holy Spirit was just so tangible and strong. And a lot of the pivotal moments in their redemption stories were these beautiful encounters that Amy had with the Holy Spirit. And she was just recounting some of the stuff that he was saying about marriage, that turned her heart, and I was like, oh, we gotta capture this. I was even telling her before, I'll let you speak in a second. Sorry. I was even telling her before that it doesn't feel like just another episode to me because there feels like there's something so powerful, and there's a grace on your testimony. And just like in a 192, almost like, what is that? A two-edged sword to cut one needs to be cut. And then even just give us a better perspective of how heaven sees marriages. So I feel very excited about getting to have this conversation with you. And there's a vulnerability. So Amy, thank you for your yes. Like, I know that that was a costly. Do you want to tell us, let's see, how long you've lived and read and then maybe like, like how many kids you have, and then I was thinking to just, how long ago you got married? Maybe how long you were married for when you got a divorce, and then what the time, like literally just 10,000 foot view logistics. And then we'll get into some details. Yeah. I moved to Reading in 2012. So, and then after the School of Ministry first year at the SSM, I met my husband, and so that was in 2013. And we got married in 2014. And so it's pretty quick. And like both of us really felt like a strong yes on it. And so we were married for, let's see, we were married until 2000. Was it 21? Was when we separated? Was that about seven years? Six years? I think it was eight years. Eight years. When we finally separated. But, and then there was three years apart in that process we went through divorce. And there was a lot of time in that where I'm like both he and I pursued a lot of healing. And kind of worked through a lot of pain that we had been through. And then not necessarily with the idea of that that work would lead to reconciliation. No, yeah, especially for me. I think he had really, he wasn't necessarily wanting a divorce in the beginning. And I was in so much pain and I couldn't see a way of us reconciling. Like I couldn't see a way of making it work together. My hope was that we would co-parent and that would be easier for us to be friends and kind of have some space and distance. And so, yeah, no, that wasn't in my heart at all for reconciliation. And so, yeah, so three years we went through divorce in that time. And then we started just kind of the Lord was turning both of our hearts and kind of piecing things back together. And then we got remarried this past June. So, 2025, yeah. And how long after the divorce was finalized, how long of a time was it before you started dating or reconnecting? Whatever you call the second phase of. Yeah, so, um, and not like the divorce like dragged on for a long time. Like it was, it was process and it was interesting because neither of us really had control over the like when it was going to go through or what was happening. And so, the divorce finalized in December of 24. Oh, okay. And then we reconciled in 25 June 25. So, but we had worked through a lot up until, up until when the divorce was finalized. So, I was there some bits of reconciliation while still added towards divorce? Yeah. And so, and it was kind of out of our hands at that point. So, there was a year and a half where there were certain things that we were kind of trying to figure out. Like custody arrangements and things like that. And so, that was kind of like the forefront of like figuring out how things were breaking down. And then, then we kind of got to like the, the actual divorce. And so, there was a lot of, there was a lot of time in like court and just trying to figure things out. And it was really painful for both of us. It was, um, we both had very different views on, you know, what was a healthy home. And it's interesting looking back now because I can see how I see now how they fit together so well and complement each other. But back then it just felt like an insurmountable difference. Yes, exactly. And I had no idea how to even, you know, piece them together or to make, make it work together. But I would be curious. So, leading like when you finally asked for divorce. Yes. Not looking for details, but mindset-wise, how would you describe your emotional state or mindset when you finally were like, this is not possible? Yeah. Um, I think when I finally got to that point. And I had other, I had, you know, people kind of involved in the process. And I think that was that a choice to, you know, to not do it alone. Because sometimes in the middle of pain and messy, it would be easier to not, people do not see you in your mess. What made you lean in and like let people in in the middle of it? Yeah. So, I think I was really looking for like, you know, who had, like fruit or something that I like was like wanting. And so, the problem though with like when you're in that vulnerable space is like, you really need, you need someone that's going to have biblical wisdom for you. Because if you latch onto like worldly views about how do it feels good if you're unhappy. Do deserve happiness. You deserve how you should be treated this way. Like this is, you know, this is a toxic relationship, this person's a narcissist, all those buzzwords. You know, like if you're, if that's in your source that you're getting. Yes. Yeah. Then there's, there's a lot of, you know, like I, almost contradictions to how we're called, but they don't seem blatant, you know, like they're wrapped up in softer packages. And probably I'm imagining people would say that usually don't have ill intent, you know, like, they actually want to be helpful. Yeah. And I think, I think what I learned in the process is that I think in the body of Christ, we are, we're understanding like there's one of my favorite verses this year that's really set out to me is like that we don't have a high priest who can't sympathize with us, but was in all points tested, but without sin. So we can go boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy in time of need. And I feel like, I feel like that's kind of been like the cry in the church's heart, like really desiring a high priest who can sympathize with us. But I think, I think in this journey, I think what I kind of ran into is like people who could empathize with me, but also didn't know how to kind of get me over that that place of pain and like fighting for my marriage. It was just like, oh, this is, you know, like this, you know, where you guys are at just isn't like, it isn't healthy, it isn't safe. And like, I think people couldn't see like the other side of it. And I couldn't see the other side of it. And so I had a lot of people that were giving you like that kind of tailored advice versus, yes, did you have anybody who was biblically being like, I'm so sorry, it's hard. Yeah. And I absolutely think that like this isn't beyond the Lord's ability for redemption. Did you have a couple people like that? I did have like one specific person that really came in and I appreciate I felt like she could have really tracked with my heart. But the part that was difficult for me was that I could see the same pain in her and in her marriage. And so it was like, oh, it didn't feel hopeful maybe. It didn't. Yeah, it's like, do I just have to silence? suffer. Or does that what you're saying? Yes, exactly. And I think now even I look at that experience differently because I see like, oh, this person actually had the understanding that I didn't have where it's like, we're believing for the breakthrough. We're believing for the hope that if not, like, I'm going to follow the Lord and like, even if it's, it makes me so like cheering out because I look back at that. I'm like, oh, like, there was so much that she had to offer me in that moment, but I just couldn't see like that, like, you know, even if marriage is hard, like still saying yes to it, like, it's such an offering to the Lord. And it's like so a painful yes. It cost you something. But I think sometimes we miss that the cost is part of like the worship or the sacrifice versus if it's painful, it's the opposite, you know, feedback that this isn't the way or something like that. Yeah. And I thought like, you know, when I came to know Jesus, like, he was like his presence was really what drew me in. And like, he was, like, he was able, like, he was faithful. He was, he was reliable. Like, he would show up. And like, I would pray and he would be there for me. And so I felt like in this constant battle of marriage where I'm like, I'm praying and I'm doing all the things that I know to do, but I'm not seeing you show up. Like, I'm not seeing our marriage transform. And I'm not seeing like the breakthroughs that, you know, I feel like I'm needing and my husband's needing and our boys are needing. And like, really, you know, as a mom, like having your children, like, you want so much for them to see healthy. Yes. Yeah. To see a healthy marriage exactly. And so like wanting to provide that example for them and give them like a basis of love to grow up in and feeling like I didn't have something solid to offer them, you know, it was so heartbreaking. But even in that, like, I see so much, I see so much beauty and in marriages that are struggling where people are saying yes and signing up every day. And it's that like, you know, like, I know that God can do this. But if not, like, I'm going to say yes anyways. And like that consistent, like that faithfulness and that perseverance, you know, I feel like that is something that I just really couldn't comprehend or understand. And it's so true though, it is probably the most sneaky counter gospel message out there right now. It's interesting because I mean, is it like the devil self-help? It's not the devil. But it's just a smidge off yes from gospel and what like the kingdom promises. Yeah. Where instead of like us being our source or like find happiness, it's like, yeah, like in the middle of it, you will have hope not saying removing yourself from the hard situations is where your hope is, you know, or or even man, when you're saying that idea of like, it could be hard, he could show up on a dime, and it could still be okay and say yes. Some of it goes back to I think we don't really know how, like we don't understand the role suffering plays. Yeah. In our walks with the Lord. And it's funny, but about five years ago, someone really close to me came to light how toxic their marriage was and how yeah, verbally degrading of an environment they were living in. And after some advice, like for a couple of months, I started advising the person to get a divorce. And I'll never forget it. I was praying for them one day and it was like such a clear word from the Holy Spirit. And he was like, you need to watch your your advice. You do not understand suffering. Like it's meant, like it's seen in heaven. He's like, you're a short term perspective. So you don't have, it's almost like you're too much of a novice to go speak in something so final. So I just, I stopped actually went into apologize to them. I'm like, I'm sorry. And this is so hard, but I'd like to take back my advice. And I'm so proud of you for keeping your face on Jesus in the middle of the heart and keep going. Like that's that's really like the gosh, this is breathtaking when we can do that. Yeah. Yeah. I and it's it's I think like I think this generation, there's so much focus on like in that verse, like the empathizing like where God can empathize with us. But it's like I think what we really need to learn and understand is like going boldly to the throne of grace and like obtaining mercy and time of need. And sometimes it doesn't look like, oh, my husband is transformed or I'm transformed. Sometimes it looks like I'm strong enough to get through today. And I think that I think yeah, just the value like you're saying of like suffering and like perseverance. And then also I think one thing that was so like impacting to me is that after you know, we'd gone through so much. And I just, I had a moment where I was like God, like I pursued divorce and the hopes that both he and I would remarry and give our children like a healthy marriage to look at. And like that was my dream because I just couldn't see it between us. And I was like, did I get this wrong? Like my hope was to give our children something like strong to like lean on and like like a healthier mom and dad where we're actually like exemplifying this like love. And it was just the understanding. I think like really, but when I came to that point of like asking him like, did I get this wrong? Like sorry, just to clarify it with yeah, did I get it wrong when you got a divorce or when you were getting that together? When I know when I got a divorce, yeah, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, no, when I when I got to the point where like it had just been such a painful process. And I was really hoping that it would be easier to go through the process of divorce. And it was not. And and I was just so certain that that was going to be the answer fix. Yeah, yeah. Like we would you know, get healthier and we couldn't do together. And so but when when I really asked the Lord like and it I felt like it was a full surrender moment where I was like, it I really want to know like if I made the right choice or not and like whatever you say like I like I felt like I could fully like let go of like whatever path was in front of me and really hear the Lord. And he he showed me like his design and marriage. And he showed me like it was something that like I felt like he just like put inside of my heart and like I could see it for the first time. And I think too like so many of us have been touched by divorce. We've experienced it. And so I think like not many of us have actually had like this full understanding of what marriage is. And I think even like there's more to it that we are going to like continue to like grow and understand like the beauty of his design. But I felt like I could see it so clearly. And I could see like it was like you know um was this kind of like an encounter with the word yeah. Yeah. And and it was just like the treasure in the field that you like sell everything to buy and it was like perfect. It was the most beautiful thing of like man and woman coming together and like the unity and the love and the intricacy of how we can like intertwine together like it was so beautiful. It was so perfect. It was without flaw like there was like looking at it was just so beautiful. And then over that I saw like like superimposed over that was like Justin and I and our marriage. And like how the Lord had designed us to like fit together so perfectly. And like attributes of him and attributes of me that like complimented each other. Whereas I thought they just like you know thought against each other and how like I needed the strengths that he had and he needed the strengths that I had and that we could actually cover each other's weaknesses in a way that I hadn't seen and I knew in that moment that I was like I did not give my whole heart to fight for that like I there was nothing that I could say there was nothing that I could do that would be like oh like I like I fought for that with everything I had. Have you ever been listening to one of our podcast episodes and thought something like wow I can relate to that or maybe even that feels like me but I don't know how to change or even sometimes maybe you felt a little triggered. Well here's my challenge. I don't want you to just stop at feeling inspired or called out. I think it would be the difference would be figuring out how to actually apply those concepts that we're talking about to your life. And that's where one-on-one coaching comes in. I'm heading into a season because I've stepped out of doing my live habit mastery course where I actually have more availability and I'd love to help you take the ideas we talk about on our podcast and turn them into actionable habits that bring real change. So whether I think people think of me as a habit coach and just think meal prep or fitness but actually most of my repeat clients we do relational we figure out boundaries we're learning how to like decrease our people pleasing and I think the interesting part is there's so much of a crossover of like I know what I need to change but I don't know how to get there and I think that's where habits come in. Small practical steps to change the patterns that you see in your relationships where you'd like different results. If you're curious about what working with me as a one-on-one coach would be like you can sign up for a free 10-minute explore call no pressure it's just a quick chat to see if coaching would be a good fit for you or if you're ready to dive in you could actually just book directly the session both those links are in the show notes. The sweet spot isn't just about hearing something that inspires you. It's implementing it to get different results. So I would love to work together. The link is in my bio and I'm here for you. So it was interesting because you really did do a lot of work. You remember lots of counseling you invested. But it was like this supernatural conviction almost that you're like, "I thought I had, but after this you're like, no, I can clearly see." Yeah, yeah. In the marriage, I did feel like there was so many times when I'd give in my heart and I had been vulnerable and I had gone low, soft. Yeah. I think anyone in a marriage can relate to the fact that you just feel like your heart gets broken over and over again. You're trying so hard to love this person. There's just so many opportunities for rejection and pain and. Not feeling the same. No, no, no. Or valued. Yeah, it's so real. Yeah, and so it wasn't that I hadn't tried, but it was. Like when I had that encounter, it was like, "Oh, the. Like the subtle heart postures of like doubting or not believing that God could come through in our marriage." Oh, wow. And it was like allowing those little things to kind of get in and like weaken, like just my confidence in our marriage. And so it's interesting because I'm thinking about how we all probably have some friends who maybe were with us, with the Lord like on fire, whatever you want to say, and had a similar history and then slowly watch them make choices that kind of like you're saying doubt, question, and then just this slow, almost like lukewarmness or calcification, whatever direction it turns. But it's interesting to think about that with marriage too, like how entertaining some of these things can actually be the downfall. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I had also in that, like I found a new understanding for the authority that we have as wives. And the authority of our prayers and. Can you elaborate? Did you have any like. So real quick though, after you saw this superimposed and got it honestly. What was the next missing counter that happened? Yeah, so there just was such a strong conviction of like, I could have given so much more to that. And it was. Which is shocking because I bet you would have said to yourself, "Yes, I gave it all." Everything. I had thought I had given everything, I had nothing left. And also like in that moment too, because I felt such. Like when you see the beauty of God, you're so aware of the difference between you and Him. You're so aware of how short you fall and how much you need the covering of Jesus. Like how much Jesus did for us, how much we need His righteousness. Like we are not. We don't have that within ourselves. We have to be covered in His righteousness. And so there was this understanding of like, I could never. I could never steward something so beautiful, perfectly enough. You know, there was nothing that I could give. And so in that, what also happened simultaneously was this list of pain that I had with my husband and the things that he had done that had broken my heart that were so painful to me, that I couldn't get past that proved to me over and over again that like we made a mistake, this was the wrong choice. We're just not the right ones for each other, he's never going to see me like. All these things that proved over and over again in these really big moments where my heart just felt broken over and over again. It was like all of that list just completely disappeared. And it was like just instant, like forgiveness and instant release because I could see like almost like how. You know, it's like that was his debt towards me and then I could see how much in debt I was. And it was nothing. Like what he, those things. And it wasn't that they were nothing, you know, but in comparison to what I had been forgiven and comparison to what they looked like between the Lord and I. It was just like, "Oh, like I can't hold anything on anyone." Wow. I literally, this is something that I had an encounter with the word about, which is that parable of the person that was forgiven by the king. And it's like so much grace. And it's interesting because I think sometimes in marriage, I think in marriages that are in pain, it's the place in people's lives where they least apply the gospel. Yes. Which is fascinating. I think it's probably because we sit with so many marriages and also me too. It's like me too. But then it was one moment where I remember like having a pain with Aaron, heartbreak, you know, something and like almost like feeling justified in my pain. It was not, I did not contribute much to this. This was a hymn, his, his error. And I remember being like, "Oh, I could let this go. I could forgive him." But there's part of me that I was like, "Well, will I ever get the care or attention? Like how will this heal if he doesn't?" I mean, you don't think this is so straightforward, but if he doesn't pay for it, like I need a certain amount of rest of the trust. Whatever payment for, yes, they give, for this trick, like this wrong I experienced. And then the Lord was like just imagined me being forgiven so much in my salvation moment in every day. And then going to him and like holding him by his collar, being like, "You want me 10 bucks?" Like he totally does. I think there's something that's empowering about like not pretending like he didn't owe me $10. But then being like, "Do you remember how much you were forgiven?" I wonder if you can forgive him because he, I almost sometimes I, like there's a season where I would take communion every morning and imagine what yesterday I needed forgiveness for and like let the blood cover it. But then I started after that and counters started doing it for Aaron too because he was like, "It doesn't go one way. It's not just completely covering you. Will you let my blood cover him too?" Will it be enough?" And I was like, "Whoa, this isn't about just me and Aaron anymore. It's me saying, did Christ's death actually cover all of my husband's transgressions?" Even the ones. It's easy to say the other ones, but the ones towards you, I'm like, "No, no, I'm going to need the 10 bucks though." But yes, like you're saying, I was like, "Wow, it's so true." And it's also like, I've talked with some friends with things they've gone through in their marriage and one thing like I've said and I've heard a lot is like, "But if I let this go, how is this going to heal?" Or how is this going to get fixed or how is this? And I feel like this is where like our marriages are set apart from the world is where like we actually can, like you said, like let go of the $10. We can let go of those things because it's not a like, "Oh, like this is okay behavior." It's, "Lord, I actually trust that you see this. I trust that you've got this. I trust that you, like this moment mattered to me and that you see what's happening in our marriage in this dynamic." And that like this moment, I can let go of because I know that you're at work, like you are faithful to complete the work that you've started in my husband. You're faithful to complete the work you've started in our marriage. And so like I can let go of the things that felt like wrongs today because I'm trusting that you're building in our future. And like it's, it's where like, I feel like this is something where like in the church, like we really have to like represent this well where like it's not just about us and our husband and us. Having this partnership where like he does his part and I do my part and I pursued. I feel valued. I feel cared for. Yeah, yeah. It's like there is a third party here. Like I actually can let go of defending myself because I've gone to my father who sees me and he will be the one to bring in that factor that I can't even comprehend right now in this moment. Like the thing that's going to like bring life to my husband and bring light into his heart in a way that I can't in this moment. And like I think like really understanding that like our marriages shouldn't work without God's power without his ability without him bringing in factors that we don't know in this moment. And I think that's something that I wish I would have understood like with like pursuing a divorce is that one of the things that as we were going through it and especially like once I had my like just time of repentance and like really pursuing. Like okay, you know like I want reconciliation. It was like realizing that there are so many factors that I don't know about. There's so many things that like there's people that are coming into our lives that I didn't know that had this testimony that had this story that can bring life and hope and help you know give wisdom to us and help us navigate this and. Honestly, that point I was going to ask about because sometimes when I'll be working with people and repeated marital pain. Yeah, some of the tipping point are like when they're feeling like they're reaching the edge of I can't handle this going on for forever. It's interesting where it almost feels like there's this the real pains or whatever happened. But then it's compounded with almost this like spirit of despair where they look up and they're like I can't keep doing this for forever which I love with what you're saying is the idea of if you're letting fear forecast your future. Yeah, and you're not seeing any of the hope or any of the things that are beyond your power working like you're just imagining the same. I love that being like you don't actually know everything. You don't know all the twists and turns and things to come. So don't listen. I kind of think that those are the moments you don't look up and think of forever. You handle the pain of this moment and don't let that despair. Almost like take, you know how the devil is testing. Jesus, he takes me like, all this could be yours. It almost feels like the opposite of like, can you keep doing this forever? What if you're 80 and have this pattern? You're like, it's like literally almost like hyperventilating. You're like, no, no, I can't keep doing this, you know? So I would say, how would you, did you feel that ever? Did you feel this like I cannot keep doing this? Absolutely. I felt that over and over again for years. And like, what would be, could you articulate some of the thoughts to of like what it sounds like? Like what are things that you were like when despair would come and be like, this is unfair or Jesus wouldn't ask this of me? Or let's see, tapping back into that time. I think like, it was just, I mean, it just like began physically manifesting me to where like I was just depressed. And my physical body was like exhausted and tired. But I think like if I could go back to that Amy and like, and I do, I have so much compassion for like those places, 'cause I just, I didn't know, like I really didn't know. And like, what would you say didn't know? You didn't know how? I didn't know how to get past those places. Like and I physically, like I was doing everything I thought I could. Yeah. But like what I would say honestly, like to speak to those places where so articulating that it was just like, there was no hope. Like it felt so void of hope. It felt like, like I just couldn't get up. Like I couldn't, anytime like I would try to like start like enjoying something. It was like this weight again of like, like it almost like the moments that were beautiful, enjoyable felt, tasted still. Yeah, they felt really painful because it was like, I didn't feel like I could share them with my husband. So anything that was beautiful was like the brokenness between us and the disconnect between us. Like it was like these beautiful moments with our kids that I really wanted to share with like the one other person that like we created them together, you know? And and so it was like, it was just like any. It almost like it accentuated the disconnect and painful. Exactly. I was going to ask like if I love the idea of this Amy talking to that Amy, what would you say when like a real pain happens and then hopelessness or despair or fatigue of like that? So I just like you said when you're like, I just have so much empathy in those moments because it's like they're down and exhausted. And they really are doing all the things. What would you like almost like get her to change her mindset? Yeah. How would you talk to her? So what was so helpful for me was Matthew 5, 6 and 7, like the sermon on the mountain, like sitting in those verses and then also like along with that Psalm 15. And Psalm 15 is a little bit harder in some way. Like there's one part of it where it's like, you know, it's so Psalm 15 is talking about like the character of those that the Lord wants with him. And there's one that says like, you know, they make a promise and like don't turn back even when it's painful, like even when it costs you. And so like that one is like hard, you know, when you're in it and you're just like, oh, like that's like just like like, like, okay, just yeah, I have to keep going because like, you know, this is like attribute and characteristic that like the Lord has in that he wants us as believers to have. But like in the sermon on the mountain, there's like comfort to that of like not worrying about tomorrow and like not worrying about and not the sermon on the mountain. Sorry, Matthew 5, 6, 7 in those verses, I'm not sure which one, but like it's like not worrying about tomorrow, not worrying about like what's what's coming like only worrying about today. That's interesting. It's like strategy for not getting over what like in the despair of multiplying what you're feeling now for the next 40, 50 years. That's so interesting. So even like sometimes when you discover like the scriptures we know so well and then either neuroscience or something you're like, oh, that would overwhelm your nervous system to have this pain and then imagine times in it by 40 years versus like, don't worry about tomorrow. What if that's actually stress? It's I think sometimes depending on your heart posture that can feel dismissive versus hopeful. Yes. So like it is a choice on how you receive it. Yeah. And I think to like anyone who's going through divorce, like it's so painful. Like it's so it's interesting because there's parts of you that feel like free and like so there's like there's an end. Yeah, there's an end and there's hope for a new beginning. So there's like parts of you that feel like a little bit of relief. But then the the death of the marriage and the painfulness, especially when you have children like that's that is it's it's so so difficult to go through that process. And I think that like like I going towards a divorce like it was hoping that things would get better and like it made things worse. Like it made parts of it a lot worse and a lot more painful. And so like it didn't bring the relief you thought of. It didn't. Yeah, it didn't and then like all. So I'm just thinking all counterfeit strategies. Yeah, exactly. Like it can do it to an extent. But just kind of like the difference. I don't know like they say with like sugar or something like it's a quick dope. Dope. I mean hit. But then you take out like there's a cost that never outweighs. And the cost you didn't foresee. Like I think that was what hit me sideways with that process is that I had like you know looked at. Okay, this is you know. It kind of weighed it out. But there are things that as you go through the process that you can't foresee that you can't think about. And like there are regrets and pains that you can't anticipate when you go into that process. And then things that like you know like I think like when I was younger, I you know, my parents went through divorce and part of what I thought would be different with my kids was like, okay, we're going to have conversations about it. We're going to talk it through. And you know, it's not going to be as painful for them because like we can like process. As we go and I thought you know like when I was little we just we didn't have conversations about what was happening. Yeah. We just kind of like thought open and connected with that. Yeah, it will be a different experience. It'll be a different experience. Well, what I realized like after seeing that encounter on like the design of marriage, the design of family is like they are wired to want that like connection. And that's not to say that if you know parents if families have been through divorce and like they're remarried and that's no. Because what's so beautiful is that the Lord fills in those places that you know it's like this intricate design that's been you know pulled apart and like rewired and he can fill in any single one of those gaps like with his love and his goodness and with people he brought brings in. So it's not to say that it's not like you know that there's not hope on the other side. But there is real illusion that you could do this so well. It's like a speed bump for your kids. Yeah, like oh it's you know but it's like no actually like there there's a place where the Lord is going to always have to fill in because like it was designed to have a mother and a father that love each other and the children held in that love. And and again like it's always going back to like you know like everything is on the basis of Christ and so he holds in supports everything. But I think like you know for my kids like I was like watching them go through pain and I'm like oh but we're talking about this we're processing it through and I was like oh like this actually is like they do want their mom and dad together. Like that is it's embedded in them and that's something that's where they're going to fill safest. Yeah. It's protected belonging. Yeah and I I really was like well you know if we just have two healthy marriages then that's going to be enough for them and and it was just an understanding of like I'm actually going against the design of God. Like I am actually like going against that instead of like instead of like trying to fight for this like family unit. And I feel like it's something that I really do want to be tender with because it is like no one gets to the point of like wanting a divorce just casually. Yeah. I know like or yeah I want to drag my kids to like no no one ever gets to that point like there's such a desperation if that yeah yeah and I think like that's my heart is that like after going through that I'm just like oh like I just want people to know that there really is hope. Like God really is for your marriage and I and even like what you said before with the hope is like the idea of what you see now is the only what it's going to look like like there's relationships like you said there's moments that are going to be strategic that you so see looking on the horizon and not seeing anything is not accurate for us. Yes. Yeah. And some of those moments that really simple song of even when you don't see it I'm working. Yeah. I just have to repeat them sometimes when I feel like prolonged prayers aren't being answered. And it's like a barren landscape but I'm like I'm just like okay I think those are the faith moments because it's it's funny how well like well I want to see where the hope is or I want to see some change coming and I won't bail which any of us feels that way about hard things but then realizing like it's called faith for a reason. Yes. Like even when you if you could see it it would require less faith. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah that's that is. is just my hope is that people see, there is so much hope. And I think to like seeking the Lord and like an encounter with the Lord really does, like change everything. - It does, it really does. And he does show up for us. Like he does come, like, you know what's interesting is that's one of the things I was gonna commend you on is how you stayed close to the Lord in it, where sometimes, which I don't blame them, but you know when you get busy or in pain, I watch people who really had some intimacy with the Lord stop doing the things that they did. And then when they needed the most. So I think it was probably pretty strategic in your process that you still stayed so close to the Lord versus feeling like it was too painful or you didn't have the time or you, you know, there's too many fires. What? How, like how did you make that choice? 'Cause I know people who truly love the Lord and their habits are faltering away, what I'm like, you can't, this is when you need the most. - Yeah, I think like when I encountered the Holy Spirit, like when I felt God's presence, it was like the first time that I had ever felt peace in my life. Like there was no question in my mind that God was real and his kindness, like it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. And so I had known like when I came to know Jesus, I knew his peace and I knew his kindness, I knew his mercy. And so because I was so confident in those places, even though things were messy and like just, you know, so painful all around me and I was being messy. Like it was just not, it wasn't perfect by any means, but I knew I had such a foundation of his mercy, his love, his goodness that he pursued me. - I did question that. - Yeah, even in those places where like it was just awful and things were so painful, he was the only thing that was stable. Like he was the only thing that was for me and I knew that I could go to him and I knew that he would be there for me and that he cared. And so like trying to work out all of the other details and it was so consistent through the whole thing. Like he never left. He was there with me every step he cared so much for me. And like just helped me work through my heart. He helped me work through the things that were so painful and come to a place where, you know, he like can't remember if it's in Isaiah, but it's talks about like straightening out the crooked places, like the places that were in there. Cause it like the things that we're struggling with are there because of pain and lack that we've had in our lives. And so I think people forget though how tangible of a source he is. - Yeah. - Where like not from a marriage, but from a relationship in my life, I would have just repeated real painful heartbreaking things. And it was like I couldn't, I felt here. I couldn't afterwards not go sit with him because I'm like, hey, you gotta remind me what's true. Cause a lot of mean stuff was just said about me. Or yeah, I need care and I'm literally too young to leave. So like can you give me the tangible care that I'm not gonna receive or I'd compare things that were said and be like, okay, that was really painful. But what do you say is true or what do you see about me? And just never questioning that their humanity was a reflection of God's heart. I think sometimes that's where it gets cloudy. Like how could you let this happen to me? But I think like, I probably, I think I remember having an encounter once where Holy Spirit was like, cause I was like, how could this person be here? Like how could you let this be my person for this source when they're not showing up? Like the standard issue job description, you know? And he was like, oh, it was never my plan that they would treat you this way. Like I breaks my heart every time. And I think the awareness of their humanity was hurting me, not his. Like there was no coolness in it. But what I was going to get back to is the literal, I'd have to go sit with the Lord and be like, okay, what's true about me? Okay, how do you see me? Okay, what comfort do you have to give? Almost like when your kiddos scrapes their arm, they immediately run to you and you have to like, get the gravel out and then like clean it off and then put a band date on and then hugs come to. It's like, I couldn't not do that like after everything. Did you, I was going to ask when you, man, that moment that you decided that you were going to turn towards him in reconciliation? Yeah. Was that after the encounter or what led to, okay, so you had the encounter and then you just came out of it and what was your takeaway or resolution? Yeah. And I came out of that encounter and just like with so much, like, like feeling like, okay, what do I do from here? And just like really spending time, like just like reading the word and spending time with the Lord and so and then I met with my husband and I apologized for all of the things that I felt like I needed to apologize for. And that was a really big thing for me because again, it's like that whole like, if I apologize and if I admit that I'm wrong, then it lets him off the hook, baby. Exactly. And then I don't know if there's going to, if I'm going to be met there, especially at that point, and was, what page do you do that? How are you able to be like, yeah, was it like a clarity? Like Jesus, you're worth it. This is actually about what he is this for you. Yeah, yeah, it was like, well, if that was what you gave me. And if you are, if you're so willing to cover and protect and to be a part of this, then I'm going to like everything that I put into like going away from this. I'm going to do a 180 and go straight back at this. And so I, when you're nervous sitting down, oh my gosh, I was so nervous. I mean, it was one of those encounters where like afterwards you like don't, you're different for a day, you know? And you're just like, I don't know what to do. And like, it just kind of, it was so beautiful and it was so moving and it was so humbling. It was so deeply humbling. And so, yeah, so I met with my husband and I think he was like, not sure. (laughing) That was kind of like, what? It was like, can I meet with you? And he was like, okay. And so we met and then I just apologized. And he, it was interesting because, like I felt like I could never like access his heart in our marriage. And so I just apologized for so many different things and he just started weeping. And I was just like, oh my gosh, like, you know, like this is a whole different. Like I, I saw him so different. Like I could see like all of the attributes and qualities of who God had made him to be and how I had misunderstood them so much. Wow. And when I, but isn't it interesting when you get so dogmatic where you're like, this is only a weakness that rubs me the wrong way versus, yeah. It's crazy how it's not ignoring things to reframe. So it's interesting about my own story of, there's been sometimes with Aaron's attributes. Yes, that I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like sandpapered to muscle, you know? And then, but I have just, I was like, it didn't kind of, the Lord was like, you realize that which annoys you is the other side of the coin that you benefit from. And he was like, you don't get to partake of the helpful parts and the moan, like that's duplicitous. And he was like, so part of my thing when I feel very rubbed by an attribute that I'm like, oh, it's just cost me. I now have this conviction of like, okay, can you show me the good part of this? Can you show me how it was designed to make our marriage better because I think we do just get so focused on one side. I think there's a humility in being like, our perspective is not, is perspective. And it's a two-dimensional perspective compared to his and the Lord's 3D perspective. So being like, what am I, I think just the humility of even in the pay-full-moans, what am I missing? Like, can you help me? Oh, it's some gaps here, 'cause it feels like this is the only truth, you know? Sorry. So you, some of those attributes of him that you just misinterpreted. - Yeah, yeah, there were so many things where I'm like, oh, like in my mind, this is proving that you don't love me. And like, then after I care for you better, or more, serve. - And then like seeing like, oh, actually, like this is you carrying like the faithfulness of God that you like, are meant to refresh through. - Yeah, and like, so it just, it was so interesting to sit down and like talk with him and then like, and he went through a process of like, you know, being transformed as well. And like really going after like health and, you know, going through counseling and things like that. And so like his heart was so clear. - And it's clear, so, didn't he do a little bit of that before the divorce too? Or no, was the counseling just after? - Um, mainly after we had done a little bit before. But the interesting part is sometimes, there is this difference when someone chooses to get help for someone feels like they're dragged there. So whether it's the spout, like, 'cause doing couples coaching, we can feel, - Yes. - When one person is there just as a, playcation versus an eagerness to find out their half of it, you know? So I think it's cool that, that did happen to him, but it is interesting noting that afterwards, you know, like, "Okay, yeah, yeah." And was any part of you, did you ask for counseling before the divorce? So then when he did afterwards, were you like, "What?" All of the things, I'm like, "You did all the things." All the things I was trying to, you know, implement it in the origin. I'm hoping for health, I know. So, but I think that too, like, is another thing that I would say, like, you never know. I saw someone, there's this girl on Instagram who she posts about, like, her marriage, and they went through divorce and got reconciled. And that was something where I was like, "I didn't know that was a thing." Like, "Oh, that was a no-- when I turned, when I, like, fully was like, "Okay, Lord, like, let's, you know, like, you gave me that, and like, you gave me that gift of marriage, and I didn't steward it, like, biblically." And like, I want to go at that and like, give everything I can, and the amount of testimonies that came to me. Okay, that's such a confirmation bias, you know? Like, when you were in the pain and then the self-help culture of, like, you know, just a better is what you got plenty of. And then when you went over here, you're like, "Oh, my gosh, you really can't find what you're looking for and attract it on the level of it." Yes, wow. Yeah, but I heard so many testimonies about marriages that went through really hard things and either, you know, they were on the verge of divorce and didn't get divorced or they went through reconciliation and got remarried. And beautiful testimonies. I mean, I heard so many, I was like, "Wow, I didn't even know this was a thing." Yeah. But, like, God could restore like that. Wow. So, but back to that post-she was saying, like, you know, watching your husband transform into the person you begged him to be for someone else. And I was like, "Oh, wow." That was something I hadn't even, like, you know, a pain that I hadn't even thought about was like seeing, like, "Him, do the work you wanted." Yeah. And it's like, "Oh, I wanted us to do that together." And then just that feeling of like, "Oh, I gave up too soon, you know?" But, like, I think with everything, with this, with my husband and I, like, I am just so astounded by God's faithfulness, like, to complete what he started in us. And that I'm just so thankful that we get a new opportunity to really honor our vows, to really, like, honor God and, like, our children are getting this new chance to see our marriage come back together and having them a part of, like, you know, our ceremony where we got remarried and they were so excited about it. Oh, man, I can't really imagine how happy they must have been when you guys told them. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it was so beautiful and they were so happy. And they just seeing them, like, my oldest, like, drew a picture of, like, mommy and daddy together and, like, hearts all around, you know, just, like, these beautiful moments. I'm like, "Oh, God, I'm so thankful that this is what they get to see." And it's, like, he's so faithful. And I am amazed by, like, his ability to repair his heel and redeem. Yeah. And, like, really transform our hearts, like, it's not something that's just, like, a white knuckle it. Exactly. Like, there is, like, real transformation that took place and our family has been put back together in ways that, you know, I had always dreams that we would have a marriage. And, you know, like, I look at this story of what we've been through, like, man, it is all about, like, God's faithfulness because I like to realize, like, where we are now. Like, I'm so thankful. I want to hear a few more of the nuts and bolts, but, like, when you started dating again, or opening your heart up to it, did it feel, like, vulnerable? Yeah. It's so interesting because, like, yeah, even, so I'd love to hear that, but then even speaking to the, what I'm imagining if I were in your shoes, having that encounter, head in the right direction. And then the first time that one of you wasn't perfect, you know, and that old pattern popped up. Like, how did you manage your mindset to not let fear, like, win in those moments? Or what do you have to do? Yeah. Yeah. Someone actually gave me a really great piece of advice with that. And I had talked to someone that, you know, their marriage had been through a difficult place and they came back together and I was like, how, you know, there's like this, you know, really exciting feeling of like, oh, like, things are, you know, we're coming back together. Yeah. And it's just like exciting. And I'm like, how do you sustain it? You know, like, how? That's a good question. You know, and she was like, you know, it is, it is true. There is like a bit of a, like, oh, like, it feels so great. And like, God healed so much. And then, you know, you hit, like, an argument that feels like consistent with, you know, in the past. Exactly. Exactly. And so what she told me was just like, not believing the lie that you're back there. And like, realizing you have taken ground is a new season, this is a new time. And it's true. That's such an interesting point of like, you almost empower it when you do. Yeah. And then again, it's this interesting, hopeless thing that takes something that's real pain, but makes it worse. It's kind of like salt in the wound is what I feel like sometimes. Okay. That's great. So she was like, remember, you take it down. Yeah. Talks. Yeah. That really helped. I was so thankful that the Lord had given me that piece of information because like, we've been remarried now for seven months. And it's been so wonderful. But there's, you know, there's factors. Yeah. And it's so interesting because like the dynamic with he and I, like, I feel such a confidence now. Whereas before, you know, I grew up, and I went through a really messy divorce with my parents. And so there was a part of me that was afraid of like, oh, went, like, that could happen. And when is it going to happen? There's now, I feel such a confidence in the Lord's ability to sustain us. And so I feel so much more. That's so good. Like that really is a key. I think is really getting your hope out of the other person. I always think of it like the crap, like the hooks when someone's trying to climb a building have to, you know, that's their anchor. Yeah. I'm like, when you're a hook for your anchor, the hope is in them. It is shaky. It's uncertain. Yeah. But this like repositioning your hope in the Lord versus mistakenly putting it in Justin, like, that's so good. So you just go back to that spot. You're like, nope, I know too much about you. I've seen you do too much. Yeah. Yeah. Just like staying, you know, like knowing that like his faithfulness is what sustains us. And he is able to complete the work that he starts in us. Like, he, I know that Bill Johnson says, like, you know, when he's praying for people for healing that like his heart posture is like God wants to heal every time. And he has this like this set focus in his heart of like God's faithfulness to heal. And I feel that way with marriages now where it's like God's desires, always that the marriage thrives. Like it's always that there's redemption and restoration. And I think in the past, it was like, well, some marriages just fail and some marriages don't. And there was kind of this like uncertainty of whether or not there would be success and almost a mystery on how people did succeed in marriage. And like, you know, how people have thriving marriages. But now I just see it so differently. Or I'm like, oh, like God's heart is always for a marriage to the right. He's always for, you know, for them to like find the breakthroughs that they need. And like his love is enough like to cover everything his love is enough to sustain to empower and to to create a thriving marriage. Well, yeah, well, when you were going back in and you had some of the painful patterns, did you ever have kind of more of a logistical conversation with him about when this happens and our tendencies are this, let's try this or anything that was like practical. Yeah. Of like, I want to do this differently or, you know, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think like going back into it, like how he and I navigate our relationship is different now. But I think when it comes to like I have like friends that I really connect with and I'm really open about like how I'm doing and like we're really praying. And I think like, I think like going back into it, like how he and I navigate things is different. But I kind of make sure to keep myself accountable with a friend and like have consistent prayer going like for her marriage and for mine. And I feel like that. Can I ask what the accountability, do you ever tell her like, Hey, if you notice I'm off again or hey, if I'm noticing or is it just simply in the sharing that is the accountability? And oh, like so like point is that what you're saying? Yeah, like, Hey, I'm struggling in this area. If I'm going to help us again, I want you to remind me or call me out. If I'm being a victim, like, let me know what it's just kind of like in the sharing. In the sharing. Okay. More so it's a little bit more organic than that. So and that's been really helpful for like both her and I to kind of keep each other and she like, she's really honest with me. So it is helpful to have like gosh, someone who you could tell your unpretty parts to not be judged. It's almost interesting where I feel like maybe like 20 years ago, the fear would be to be judged. Now I think this other half of the spectrum isn't kind of more of the self help, like the toxic empathy that maybe leads to pity that leads to go remove other pain. Yeah, you need to do whatever you need to do to get out of pain. Yeah. So it's interesting having to have someone who is for your marriage, doesn't dismiss, doesn't shame, but is like, it almost reminds me like I'd coach like, you know, I'm like, you could do it. You could cross the finish line. I know it's hard. Push. I know. Yeah. And like, like I'm really blessed by my older sister, she's like taught like this. marriage class for like, I hadn't got like 15 years or something like that. So she's very like, knowledge, like in like the biblical role of a wife. And so like I definitely will like check in with her. And like there's other people. I think like one of the biggest things like for helping us, like my husband, I continue on in a healthy way is like having those people that like have biblical wisdom for you not just like, oh he like, he's off in that. And like kind of validating like your experience where like you were saying like going back to the whole like $10 thing of like, well actually he was really off in that, you know, and it's like kind of, okay, but in that like, what does it look like, biblically to be a wife, even when they're off. And like the Bible is so clear to you on the role of a wife. Like it's not easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like the most fun. Like oh, it feels so good. But it is like they're really clear. Well, I was gonna say how sometimes stuff feels hard about like that can be it, but like the whole call to follow Christ is come and die. Yes. But then we're like, no, no, we're not dying in our marriage. That's the place of you know, like that's where I should be treated like a princess. Yeah, totally. That's where I can go out and face the up you world. And it's, yeah, I think both are true. But the expectation of like, if it feels like sometimes you're dying in your marriage, you're not off base necessarily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Both so good. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. I would ask, I was kind of wondering like, is there anything that you're like, oh, when I get, when I'm noticing a little bit of hopelessness or if I'm just counting the ways he's missed it or you know, if resentment is building, do you have things you say to yourself or like habits you do to like readjust your mindset so that it's in a helpful projection versus like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think like little practical things that I do like, so when we got remarried, like we both wrote out our, wrote out our vows. And so I do pray those over us. Like I pray those over us. That's cool. Like really consistently. And like my prayer is that like one thing that really is amazing is like God really cares so much about our promises and our words. Wow. And so like when we like, like when we say something, we promise something like it really, really matters to him. And so like my prayer has been like that we like, you know, when our time has come, like when our days are fulfilled, like that we would really have held those words and honored them. And so like going, it's funny. It almost reminds me of like we're reading Genesis right now in Abraham or all the people that he was like, and they were counted righteous and they were faithful. And I'm like, these are probably the moments that you earn that that you're like that character trait, I guess, our description. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so like praying those, like those, those versus, yeah. And then also like really going back to like this is his heart for me. Like these are the things he promised me because this is the way he that he wants to treat me. And like, you know, am I am I upholding like what I've promised? And so kind of just like going back to those. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I do think it's help. What did you just say? Like remembering who, what he says about you when it's hard for you? Yeah. Because I think sometimes people get stuck, spouses get stuck. We're like, these are your words, but these are the actions. And I'm not going to count your words, only your actions count. Therefore, almost like your light. If you say you love me, but then don't call me before you come out, all these things, I was funny. At one point, the Lord for me, he was like, hey, you know who else added to the letters of the law, the Pharisees. He's like, so are you, you know, but then the flip side of for me, I think that's just humility. Usually when I feel even just like low key wronged or right in my pain, you know, I don't even know how to explain it. I try to think like, okay, where do I know what it's like to say something and then follow up? You know, like having a, but I eat cleaner and then I buy that candy, or I'm like, oh, is there anywhere else you can relate to your words and actions, like your actions not actually being what's in your heart? So because it helps me to stop making such absolute, you know, like giving him grace to make mistakes or not fall through some time and not be like, oh, you don't care. I'd be like, there's things that I really care about and I have not dialed 100% consistency with the lining with my heart. You know? So thank you so much for sharing. If you, in closing, like what would you say to someone who's maybe, I don't know, the last two months, three months before you asked for a divorce, like just in the lowest final place, like what would your charge and your encouragement be to them? Yeah. I think like when, when thing that was really impacting to me that really helped is that like, you know, when, when I was just working through some things with Justin that were hard for me, I had this picture and it was like, I was like scaling this wall and I was wanting, you know, connection and I was wanting breakthrough for us and I was like trying to scale this wall and it was like kind of like almost like a, you know, a picture of like Justin's heart or something like that. And I was like, oh, it's interesting. And then I looked over and I saw like Jesus right there with me. And it was this understanding of like, like he was, he was there far before me and he was wanting the same space of my husband's heart. Like he was, he was there and I was actually joining him in his work and he looked at me and he was like, thanks for being with me. Like, thanks for being here. And it gave this like, this beauty and this like sacredness to the places where I felt tension or pain, whereas like, oh, like I am actually in this work with the Lord. It's not me wanting this place or like wanting this connection or like it's not my heart crying out for this. It's his and I'm actually doing that. And so it was this understanding of as a wife, like I am joining in this work that the Lord is doing in my husband and and it gave me this sense of like, honestly, instead of critiquing it. Yeah. Yes, yeah. But what, sorry, when you abandoned it. But it's like if I'm abandoning it, I'm not just like, like her and offended at my husband, like I'm abandoning the work of the Lord. Like I'm abandoning his heart and like his process of like refining my husband and his process of like, because he is so in love with our husbands. Like he is so desperate to like, like bring life and and and and freedom to anything that we could ask. Like they need to grow in this. Exactly. Exactly. I may be from a critical stance and Jesus's heart is broke. I'm like, I know it's so costly that we haven't gotten that yet. I know. Like yeah. Yeah. And so it was this understanding of like I am joining in his heartbeat. I'm joining in his work and it just made it instead of like the thing where I felt isolated and pain. Like I felt intimacy with the Lord. And so it's no longer about like, oh, like I need this from my husband. It's like, oh, I'm like as I'm praying for my husband and as I'm like desiring to see these places. You know, I feel like the Lord really gives us eyes for our husbands to see things that other people can't see. Like places that he's wanting them to grow so that they can become what he's forerading them to be and so that they can walk out the calling that he's put in them. And so we have eyes to see like steps down the road and places that they need to grow. And we're given that gift so that we can partner with him and like bring it forward. Like call it forward. Wow. Isn't that interesting to think about like that's our spot. And really there's a choice you either almost do more damage from that spot by like criticism or whatever else that could be. Yeah. Or you partner in like you are an instrument for breakthrough. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You do with that spot. Yeah. And just really understanding like it's really to the Lord and like there's so much value in the position that we've been given. And there's so much intimacy available to us with the Lord. So I think like that's something that I really wish I would have understood because I felt so alone beforehand. And then after really like understanding so much more about the role of a wife, I felt so much more intimacy with the Lord and it felt so purposeful. Everything felt really purposeful with the things that I was praying for him and and you know the things that my heart was desiring like it just gave it gave me a lot more strength in the process. That's so good. As you're sharing I just felt Holy Spirit. I'm going to get you to I'm going to share a bit and then I want you to close us in prayer because I think you just have such a authority because of obviously like what the Lord shown you and then also what you've walked through. So I'm like, I feel like excited about that prayer. But the other thought I just felt like she was sharing that about like you know being in God's process. I would love to if you're looking to realign compassion and softness towards your husband. I must felt like Holy Spirit was saying like, why don't you go on a journey like almost a homework of asking him, how do you see him? What do you love about him? What are some of your favorite things about him? What is his strengths? Because I find that when I look from the Lord's perspective, I see all like all the goodness. but when I'm like so close, I'm just a little bit more. aware of my pain points with this character. - Yeah. - So I think, yeah, I think I would just challenge you to like, so the Holy Spirit. And maybe you're in a season where there's a lot of pain and he's rubbing you in a wrong way. I would encourage you to do it often then. And remind mind, it's almost like, remind yourself and preach to yourself who he is because your narrow minded small perspective, not in a jerky way, but is not the fullness of who they are. It's almost just remembering how they talk about like, if you were like two inches away from a car. You'd be looking at the car, but it'd be such a small awareness of what you're looking at. So just the zoom out to be helpful. Okay, that being said, would you pray just, and you can do a long prayer, I'm here for it. But release all your, I'm gonna just receive. I have my hands up. All of your goodness and grace, yeah. Yeah, father. Thank you so much for the gift of marriage. Thank you for your perfect design in it. And thank you that there are just so many treasures in it that we have and even topped into. And God, I thank you that this is a time of just supernatural marriage and divine connection. And I feel your heart to just show the church, the beauty of Christ, loving his bride through husband and wife. And God, I pray that you would just, God, I just pray for the women that just feel like they've given everything they have. The women that have just been at their end, God and just are just feeling like really there's no, there's no hope in their marriage. God, I pray that you would just pick them up and that you would just bring encouragement and strength to their heart and that you would strengthen them, that you would give them just a fierce desire to see your goodness and your love in their marriage and in their families. God, I pray that you would just cover them and protect them. God, I pray that you would just give us new eyes as wives that this year that we would just be able to see the authority that we have. God, that you land on our prayers that you, God, there's such power when a wife prays over her husband and over her family. Thank you so much that you've just anointed us with this authority. And I pray that you would just remove the heaviness and just the lies and the disappointment. God, I pray that you would just remove those things that there would just be such a lightness to us taking up this role as wives. I pray that you would just knit the women and the church together in such a way that there would just be such encouragement and strength. And God, I pray that just the broken places of marriage that feel like they can't be healed, they can't be renewed. God, that you would just breathe on those really vulnerable places that you give new perspective. God, I just pray for any woman that's really in that place of contemplating divorce that you would just surround her with strength. And I pray over the husbands to God, I pray that you would just, that you would give them spiritual insight on how to lead their family and how to, how to guide their family, how to protect. I just pray you're covering over them. I pray that you would just bring just such a camaraderie between men that you would just help bring strength and encouragement. Yeah, and I pray that you would anoint the marriages that have had seasons and that they have been through some things. God, that you would just really, how that you would just bring a new voice and strength to them to just reach out and pull in people that are struggling in their marriages that they could offer strength and covering. And anyone listening, just in faith believe that there is grace and anointing on our prayers in any area that she talked about, you're like, if not experienced, God like that, or I need to understand or know him as a source of comfort as a source of identity, we just believe that you would start asking your dad for that. Let me know, like let me get real comfort and real time for me. Let me get specific bits of identity for myself and for my spouse. So anyone who just needs an upgrade and being able to feel like you hear the Lord for your day today life, we just release you hear the Lord. It's not complicated. Is it dad who wants to talk and his voice is there to encourage you? - Jesus name. - Amen. - Amen. - Thanks for sharing him. - Yeah, thank you for having me. - It was so good. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - I'm just gonna come right out and say it. If you or your spouse are struggling with porn, I wanna help. This is an area in my life that I have found freedom and I love helping other people with it. It's what I do, the majority of my coaching sessions, the group that I lead in reading and as well as what my book is about, numb to known, the surprising pathway from porn. There is more going on than just quote unquote a lust problem. There's more going on than quote unquote a porn problem. There's actually things underneath it that is driving that and create making porn become the symptom in your life. Not the problem itself, but the symptom of the real problems of isolation, the pastivity and pain. And those are the things that I love helping working with men to uncover in coaching as well as in my online small groups. I do my online small groups in three month cycles and at the time of this recording, I'm in the middle of one of those right now. But I would love you can click on the link in the show notes to find out more information and join the wait list for the next one that comes up or you can just book a coaching session with me. You can find the link to my book as well. And if this is describes your husband and your female listening to this describes your husband, go ahead and get the book, book a session, whatever you, whatever you think would be helpful. This can't be solved in isolation. It needs to be done bringing other people into the mix. And so this is a great place to start.