"Disruptive Grace" (Part 1) - Winter Retreat 2024

Yeah, I'm really excited to have Dr. Daniel Lee here with us tonight. Some of you know that a number of our pastors on staff have either gone to Fuller Theological Seminary for a degree or are in the process of going to Fuller and Dr. Lee is a professor at Fuller. And last year, I guess maybe 2022, Peter and I took a class with him and that was just a deeply impacting experience and so I could certainly talk about his you know degrees and titles and accolades and he may tell you a little bit about that but that is not why he's here. He's here because of the impact that he had on us personally and even though that's unseen to you through us to you. We bring those the things that we're learning and the ways that we're being challenged and transformed come to inform our ministry among you and I thought it was a we had asked him a long time ago if he would be willing to come and he said that he would and I wasn't super surprised because he's talked about having a background in campus ministry years ago and during our time in class he sort of exemplified one-on-one is how it's done with us just even doing online school but getting you know a couple hours of one-on-one time with him during that where he just really ministered to me and so he said he would come we're planning for that and then this fall I got this message in the middle of the fall from Lindsay Royal also one of our pastors and she said I'm taking this class it's really impactful there's a lecture you need to hear it I know it will be really powerful and I started listening I was like yes it is meaningful that is who we invited to win a retreat and that's what we invited him to talk about so I thought that was you know confirmation from the spirit that this is something that that we really need to hear so I'm going to pray for him and turn it over to him and I just encourage you to really listen for what the spirit wants to say to you this weekend about God's grace we need to hear that message again and again because the world corrupts our understanding of it we corrupt our understanding of it certainly the enemy does not want us to understand God's goodness and his grace and I'm excited for us to reflect on it this weekend so God we just pray that you would be with us that you would speak through Daniel this weekend to really penetrate our hearts again a new a fresh with the good news or for the first time as many of us may need when we pray these things in Jesus name and then all right thanks Brendan Peter told me Peter told me under drive here we're talking about like in campus ministry you get like because you know like it's really hard to remember everybody's name this happens actually even even as many as well they'll be like hey Dr. Lee and I'm like hey yeah good to see you I don't know how this person is you know but he's Peter said go for days go somewhere like or wow back somebody came up and hugged him like oh my god it's good to see you and Peter's like I'm so sorry I don't remember your name and he and the person's like oh we've never met we've never I just love you isn't working is the connection working should I unplug and plug let's see you see what's happening no maybe oh yeah thank you worship team and gospel choir as I was listening to you like you got me was like oh man I remember campus mission days so much of what I learned about guys so much of what I'm kind of my theology and I'll talk about kind of my origin story because so much of what I teach developed in campus ministry like my my my thick campus ministry I learned all my like core skills again it might happen to you as well right who knows right who knows don't know where the experience going to lead but I I thought about this and I and and I saw the worshipers and I was just so moved and just brought back so much like just really warm memories so meaningful for me so anyways let me tell you an introduction so I was saying Peter and Brandon and Peter picked me up and I was like uh Peter like so how many people like because I'm I'm from California okay don't hold against me I'm from LA and I was like hey how many people hunt out here and he's like it's like it's like every single person they all like hunt it's like no like I think we're like only 10% and I was like really I'm so disappointed I was like because I I've never hunted my whole life but there's this TV show called Meet Either that I'm obsessed with and my kids like oh my gosh you're still watching that show and I'm like I love this show so I told my friend I was like hey I want to go hunting too I was like have you fish before I was like I've never fish it's like let's start with that you couldn't gut the fish because if you want to gut a deer it's like a different universe so anyways and I was also disappointed by the fact that Brandon's like hey you don't see a lot of cowboy hats and cowboy boots and dials maybe like you know four words and I was like really you know like these perceptions people think like an LA everybody's like surfing like I mean I've never surfed before like somebody's behind so I just a lot about that um whenever I come to Texas I get barbecue I just get barbecue no nobody has anything on Texas for barbecue no really gris kid come on like I just bring my boots which is uh which is all right maybe it's not Texas which right anyways uh okay this is my family my wife Judy of 22 years maybe I might work it in I might work out how we met and stuff like that it's kind of a funky story so my wife doing two years and about and why the reason why it moved me as I was listening to the worship team and uh and uh the gospel choir because she's applying for colleges and I was like man I and this is this is high praise for you I was like and the worship team you I mean just a whole ministry here I was like I so hope like she will go to a campus mission like this like she gets to experience something like this because you know like sometimes in youth group you don't really see like the the whole exuberance of like man this is just so good to be in God's presence so anyways at about 17 and uh over here is uh Priscilla she's she's my band geek bandherd and guess what she plays two tuba her thing is I'm a little girl and plays a big tuba right that's her little thing and Teresa I don't know she's she's uh she's our fighting one she's scary um a little about my about and Judy my wife of 22 years she's a math teacher so you know we're gonna spend some time this weekend so I thought I'd get no get get a chance to kind of tell you about myself a little bit uh I love food like whenever I go on a trip I was like hey uh they've invited me over to come Texas and you know Dallas and I was like okay what am I gonna eat so I thought about that first yelp is my when have I go anywhere so uh yeah super excited about that food I love backpacking what should I see if I can make that work um I uh I go backpacking I didn't go up this way but uh there's a lot of mountains in in LA and I've come to really love that hiking mostly these days I go rock climbing and bordering there's some great because well I looked it up too because one of my travel I'm like can I make that work there's a if you I don't know if any of you bother but there's a there's a gym called movement yeah it's right right and I was like can I work that in somehow with my trip and I couldn't but and you know why because climbers know it's so addictive and when you when you're a voter you're like oh anyways my oh all my kids climb like all my white flags and all of us go borderings so it's really fun okay so about me um this is the class right the class called fiat degrees I start thinking about this gospel and grace for like last 25 years when I was in campus ministry and starting from when I was in campus ministry and it it became like obsessive I was like oh my gosh this is so mind boggling that when I when I started thinking about it it changed how I thought about my life altogether and how about thought about my faith so I'm super excited to make that I get the teacher then some class that I developed and I'm a teacher you know I probably teach it ever you know but I want to tell you the origin story of how what happened to me right and how I got to where I was and how I why think about faith really differently okay I took campus to be back in James Madison University all right and this is like you know why about this is in Virginia like I was part of the campus ministry there was like campus why like statewide in Virginia I live in James Madison and you know when I first year when I got there it was kind of small it was like like 40 people and then second year it got bigger and I was like man it's working it's growing right our worship team's coming together our small groups coming together 30 or I was like wow it's like 150 people like wow it's getting really big right so I was like okay we really should think about how we should do more outreach because we're just we're just getting like students from like you know like churches right which is great we need that then they grow a lot and all this happens in campus ministry and I was thinking about like how does not happen like why how come our group is really committed they come they really love hanging out with each other you know prayer and small groups the core all this different stuff but like it seems like there's something missing so I was talking to one of the this conversation was one of the paper of things right I was talking to the student one of the leaders and he said hey how come you don't really like like share the gospel he was I don't know like I think I'm just I'm busy right I was like what do you mean it goes well okay I'm one of the core leaders so therefore I attend the training I lead of course I have my praying baby go to the large group baby go to church I study like I'm tired I'm tired okay okay wait a minute so you're telling me you're too tired to share about how this good news gives you life he's like yeah and I was like wait a minute like do you like being a Christian and he said I mean would you want other people to have your life right and he goes oh see I said oh you hesitating that's volumes here something weird is happening something weird is happening here because you grew up in church you were super committed you doing all this different things but when we talk about the good news that's supposed to be good you don't really get excited about sharing with other people and in fact I'm not really sure if you want other people to have your life okay something weird is happening all right um is the good news good for you and here right now like a lot of people like I love it when I meet with some people who are like too honest for their own good they'll just tell you because you know people going for sure they don't say stuff like this they're like this is a bad Christian answer right what's the answer Jesus right you know what the answer is I love God I love Jesus that's what the answer is right I grew up in church on my life he goes no honestly I I don't know and I start thinking about this because at the time I was reading like Gordon Fees like commentary on like New Testament comment you know like scholar he talks about it in Philippians he was talking about the book of Philippians and in the books talks about how joy because one of the books in the Bible talks about joy so much right joy is one of the most characteristic things about a Christian it's what sits in my part in the first century they were joyous and I was talking to my friends they weren't if we talked and they said what a minute do you think we are characterized by joy in our fellowships especially the core leaders who do so much and he said I don't think so joy does joy mean like emotion because if it's not maybe I have joy like I have joy but it's deep deep in there deep deep some the crevices of my heart is in I'm joyous but it doesn't show one irregular faces in my face I don't feel joyous but I'm sure joy is right or I don't know if you read this for like joy is like Jesus first other second you last J.O.Y like everyone has a kid like oh I got joy I'm like J.O.Y like J.O.Y what am I doing and I was like if that's the case you would never have joy like because you never get it you never get it right anyways I was like what do you mean and the Gordon Fee says we were good they were characterized by joy and they the good news spread like gossip this is actually what he said it's spread like gossip it was so good people like it's so good it is so good it's delicious it's like freaking fatty brisket you like it's so good it's melts in your mouth and I can't even get it I've come all the way to get the real stuff it's so good I just have to share it and I say wait a minute our fellowship does not have joy we we're not characterized by people to say oh yeah these people these fellowship people are joyous nor do we share that much I said oh oh I think this is kind of a serious problem I mean a lot of people are really committed super committed leaders you know with the worship bid they're praying all this different stuff something weird is happening what is happening what what is what is going on well um this is where my journey began it's saying something weird is going on we look great on the outside but something weird is going on and at the time I was looking at like different you know books in the Bible and talking about the fact that in Galatians well okay currently in church for example like pause letters to the Korean current you're like it's like oh I give thanks for you and actually if you know the Bible the church in Corinth was terrible it's just horrendous it more or just all over the place of mass but it's like I wish and I praise God for you because you're great you know all this different stuff right that's how it begins um book of Philippians pause a little to the church in Philippa it's like hey you know what some people don't even do ministry for the right reasons but you know what ministry is being shared gospel being shared it's still good what's really weird is there's a pause all this letters there's one letter Paul doesn't give thanks for the people because every letter is like oh I give thanks for you praise God to you right it's one letter Paul's like Paul's like uh um greetings from God right okay what's wrong with you and it's not about immorality it's not about something wrong it's the book of Galatians and what did they wrong was he says you missed the gospel and I'm like what do you mean but you're talking to Christians he was oh that's not a gospel I was like what does that mean can you not get the gospel they're in church these people they're like community great they're talking about Jesus they're praying it's like oh that's not like a gospel and like what a bit how's that possible what does that mean so now I'm like this is like free for like I think about like uh um you know when I was going up like my the big movie was the matrix and if you see the matrix like the blue the red pill blue pill and you're like what is going on it's like you feel like uh uh falling down Alice in Wonderland like falling down the little you know rabbit hole like what what the heck is happening I what does this mean right so the tax for today or tonight comes from Luke very familiar right so well Luke 15 if you have a Bible you can turn it if you because look at the screen I'm going to read it okay um Luke 15 starts this way now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathered to get around together uh to hear Jesus but their Pharisees and Teases of the Law murmured this man welcomed sinners and each with them then Jesus told this told them this parable and he tells a parable parable of the law sheep and then he tells another parable parable of the law's coin and then in and verse 11 he continues there was a man who had two sons the young ones that his father father gave me my share of the state so divided his property between them and along after that the younger son got together everything all he had set off to a distant country and they're squandered his wealth and wild living after he had spent everything there was a severe famine the whole country and he began to be in need so he went out and hired himself out to be a citizen of that country who's who sent him to his fields to feed pigs he longed to fill his stomach with the paws of the pigs were eating but no one gave him anything when he came to his senses he said how many of my father's higher servants have food to spare and here I am starving to death I was set out and go back to my father and say to him father I've sinned against heaven against you I'm no longer working to be called your son so make me like one of your higher servants he got up and went to his father but while I was still a long long long way off father saw him and was filled with compassion for him he ran to his son through his arms around him and kissed him the son said father I've sinned against heaven against you I'm no longer working to be called your son but the father said to his servants quick bring the best robe put it on him put a ring on his fingers think the finger fingers and sandals on his feet bring the bring the satan calf and kill it let's have a feast and celebrate for my son for this son of mine was dead in his alive again he was lost in his found so they began to celebrate now one of the things I note is that when you think about a satan calf back then like nor refrigeration right like they're having like a village feast like everybody's eating right it's a public feast they're going to have with this terrible son right amazing love of God I um you know summer mission trips went to a trip in Kyrgyzstan which is like this you know central Asian country we're over there and we're having a retreat with bunch of like people and like everybody there like was like they're all non-questions right they're just trying to understand what the God's voice even the translator like we're the translator who's translating stuff to the direction you know I had no familiar with anything so I'm thinking this story and saying hey I'm gonna tell you a story uh and I don't even understand that so you you can kind of you can be more familiar with that when you when you translate what it is so I told you this story and she said this is a response she's like what the heck why did the father give this party to the son you see this is where sometimes like this text is so familiar it doesn't shock me at all it's like oh yeah I mean you know a product of son story whatever like father's grade loving I get it but she was genuinely offended she was like that's really bad I feel so bad for the older son like what about the other son what's going on right the amazing generosity of God and the grace of God that we see that God goes out of God's way to embrace and love and throw a whole party right and that's the message for this evening the end oh actually wait a minute wait a minute this verse keeps on going right this passage keeps on going this paragraph keeps on going I think so I grew up thinking that was the whole point of the parable like most like children's books and stuff like that that's the whole point but the reason why it can't be the whole point because that's where the middle of the story you know I'm saying like what wait what about the do you ever watch a movie and be like oh I'm done in the middle like what happens to the second half of like what is happening so this is why and usually the second half is more important in the first step it's like a setup and this is what the point is this is why it's so interesting what is the second pet are about right well second half so meanwhile the older son is in the field and he's like they're having a little village feast right so when he came near the house he heard music and dancing and he called one of the servants and asked him hey what's going on your brother has come home he replied and your father has killed a fattened calf because he has come home safe and sound the older brother became angry but he should be angry holy cow are you serious right he refused to go in so his father uh went out and pleaded with him but he answered his father look look all these years I've been sleeping for you and never despair disobeyed your orders you but yet you never gave me even a young goat I can celebrate so I can celebrate with my friends but this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitute comes home you killed a fattened calf for him now I see this is the normal response this is the normal response and this is why when you're so familiar with it I thought about this like I'm standing on I was standing on the field like all the different what's the stereotype of different like cities you know he's like oh yeah well often it's it's like funky like you know keep asking weird and I was like oh that's what I'm trying to do I'm trying to help you see that the Bible is weird right it is not normal it's like what and we're so familiar with it yeah oh yeah I know what happens I literally grew up with it all my life but when you listen to what it's saying it's strange and the beauty and the message is in the strangeness right something is going on something weird is happening here so what is happening well my son the father said you're always with me everything I have is yours I mean literally everything I have is yours because I developed and literally like everything I have is you get the son of going to you but with the celebrate me be glad because this brother of yours was dead there's a love again he was lost and found there's two sons and I think I don't know if you know that the the Bible all the Bible we have they have like section divisions right you know section like division and it might say like the parable of the lost son or prodigal son or whatever that's not inspired somebody just put that scholars put that on there that's not part of scripture right what I'm saying is this like so we say this is actually what I heard growing up this is the bad one like I have a younger brother I have or two of the sisters and one younger brother like like I am the I'm the good son but I am talking about your new siblings like my brother man oh not that I've kids I'm like gosh it must have been like I feel so bad for my mother because you know he'd be out and just I mean he'd always even when he would get wasted or whatever he'd come home and hang out and talk to my mom and everything else but I mean you know like he was like the bad son and I was the good son and some of you might connect with that you know because when you have siblings you might get labeled labeling is not good by the way right you know I know that's not good but this is what I grew up and I grew up thinking that this is actually what the pair was about it's called a parable of the product or son for a lot of people but if you take a attention to what the what the text is going on and saying there's something weird happening it turns out that there is actually one lost son who has no idea who the father is the bad son says this is like hey um you know the inheritance I get when do you get inheritance when you when your father drops dead right so when you so he goes give it to me now right like give it to me now like incredibly offensive like you you worthless to me give me the money right that son comes home you throw a party right so definitely this son is lost this son has no idea has this does not trust the father at all like you're gonna you're gonna keep all the son I want to I want to enjoy that stuff that that son does not trust the father at all it turns out the other son is lost too right it's like I've been sleeping for you I'm like in the father's like slaving for me like what was I like within you what happened right like all literally you're working your own fields right what is happening do you know who I am the younger son of course didn't know who the father is didn't know the fact that the father would throw parties the older one didn't know either even though he's at home he's at home with the father every day that's weird that's good for his weird right what the heck is happening right and the reason why Jesus who the reason why it's introduction is because he tells this to the people who are Pharisees now people Pharisees get a bad rep you don't know if you're a biblical New Testament Scott you know there's Essens there's like Sadducees there's Pharisees Essens were like fundamentalists like kind of crazy people like super like intense so Sadducees were like kind of sell us like really liberal they didn't be the care about stuff but the Pharisees they took the Scripture seriously they were literally us right and I'm like what because I always be like you know once again like weapon church and I'm like oh the Pharisees of course that guys but once you realize they're just like us you're like what's the critique you are in church and he's saying you're in the father's house but you might not know the father that's what it is that's a now I'm worrying right and then I realize oh this is not the bible and how we think about faith is not what I think it is because it turns out sin is not about immorality the younger son's death definitely lost I'm the wild living right prostitute I mean you know you are a college student you might not know something about immorality right like hey you know as my homemade like it's I'm not swimming in it like everywhere right this is what people do right but what's weird is this is Adam and Eve by the way a lot of a lot of people here in the past like Christian it was in the past try to make Adam and Eve stories some kind of immoral stories like oh it's about sexual knowledge or whatever the apple mean you know the fruit means something whatever but that's not what it says God says something and they don't trust God that's the point that's the sin right oh you know what God's not God's not out for myself like I gotta watch out for myself God's keeping something from me something good God's keeping from me that's the sin right it's sin is a distrust of God not what do you do or not it's a distrust of God do you trust God it turns out right this is this is what what one of my favorite theologians is Martin Luther he basically says look this is actually what can happen God the idea of an almighty God is kind of a terrifying idea right somebody was like you know Santa Claus like he sees you when you're like you know it's like this idea he's always around right always like it's kind of freaky right always there like elf on the shelf right sees you what's happening and you're like and God's like that too like oh it's kind of scary right and you're like wait a minute like is that good and then Luther realizes is that good do we really trust God almighty God they can do everything kind of scary so he says in the end if you don't really trust God which is totally understandable from his perspective like this is like I get it I get why people don't trust God right but that's what sin is he's like you you don't trust and therefore you don't obey but it's not the obedience it's not what you do with your hands is what all already first happens with your heart that's where the sin starts right so you have to figure out hey some people sin this way some people didn't that way some percent very pretty right like oh their sins are so little daintier and pretty all the people says like oh my gosh look what look what happened over there right but what happens in their heart might be pretty much same that's really really strange if that's true I was like wait a minute but I was trying to get people to not sin wasn't it the whole goal of ministry that I said how can you be the goal of ministry because if they can sin that way too right it turns out we have somebody who's you know like like my younger brother used to be he's he's he's going now right he was very distrustful of my parents and he disobeyed externally disobeyed and then there was me that didn't always trust my parents but obeyed but obeyed he was out parting I was at home people are out there parting right and doing whatever wild living whatever wild living is and then there's people slaving away but what's they think of God you know how you distrustfully obey you you can do that because you're scared like you know what got got got got I need that protection who knows what come I'd be like one day but like that's what you get right you got obeyed like oh crap I got I got to protect myself right I want to make sure I have a secure and I have a background plan I got you know I gotta do what I need to do right you can hate the father and distrust the father in two different ways the question is which way is more dangerous which is more dangerous if you are if you are like you know if you're like if you're sitting in a very dainty way and you are obeying serving and having else but internally rumbling like as opposed to somebody who's actually living a wild living when you look and see what's happening who would you say oh my gosh they need Jesus they need Jesus they need help these people now there are leaders these are cold I mean I don't want to say you know but I'm saying these were my small group leaders okay they were our worship leaders I would have never thought they needed to do they won't even think that they need Jesus they're like we're good I'm there already right this is why Martin Luther was like oh my gosh and you know he's like the father of the Protestant reformation is like oh my god this is where the gospel comes he's like the gospel is a lot more racketing realized and actually people who are in the church sometime is the most lost and it is if that's true how you do ministry is very very different right what's more dangerous and that's why Jesus is like the Pharisees let me tell you what's happening who's close to me who's close to the father who's far away this is Lindsey's favorite part I'll talk about it so in New Bible it turns out that the prostitute and the tax collectors the sinners are explicit you know people who are living while living they literally get to the father just in the parable before the people who are doing well they are oriented toward God and they get their first right so if you're if they're desperate hungry thirst it's basically what the Beirut 2 is talking about in the Bible like hey the kingdom of God is kind of an upside down kingdom the first should be last last should be first people we think right there or I go up and charge all my life I mean in my from my mother's room I I didn't need that I was like literally baptized in that holy water of my mother's room right I was all good right it turns out that some of these people are further way than the people who actually know they know they need help they're like oh they're in it like oh my gosh I'm a mess these people are closer than way worse than what I call them pastors right Pharisees and the obedient servants and Jesus has some really harsh things to say on a regular basis these people and you're like what is happening it's it when you feel like I'm good I'm good right I have everything I need I don't really need I am close to God so in campus ministry so I'm learning the stuff some sharing this learning this thing and my my student leadership team they're freaking out they're like what happened to our staff like he's saying some crazy stuff like we're good so I somewhat I said one day look this is me see where it turns out to be the fact that if you if you have like literally no spiritual resume like you're not this absolutely gifted worship team person right but you're just out there doing your crazy life God's God just extravagantly like literally over the top loves you right over the time it's not like oh you're good like I talk about this like sometimes you put think a do you put think a God's patience is like this like I'm gonna pick on you what's your name Lauren's like you know I think something I'd were thinking that it's got patience is like this Lauren's I'm so patience with Lauren's Lauren's Lauren's what am I gonna do with you but but you know what even though you fail to disappoint me more but I'm so patient now what if God's patience was like that it's like miserable right I was telling one of some of my students is I was like well when do you think God like delight in you and this one seems like oh oh when you don't sin and I said good luck never God always patient with you ah Lauren's come on brother still patient with you it's good no it's not like that God literally delights over us like oh my God Lauren's I love you right but I'm not Lauren's you get to me man I love you like really when I think of you I just like I can't get enough right like I like my kids I talk about like when you have kids especially when you bring them from the when you bring them from the hospital you're like is this real like where was this baby the baby was inside of you what how's it happen right I mean I know science but what does that mean right it's a living person and so we sit there and be like and I'm just one picture of my wife and I just looking at the baby like and every compliment is like well be like is she breathing okay because she's sleeping right really I just look at him be like my gosh like this is this is like literally I baby like I just I can't get enough the Bible talks about God's face shining upon you like hey I still get this because like I'm like 50 something and my mom look when she looks at me she's like oh my son and she beams and I'm like I'm five now I feel I feel like looking I'm like mommy loves me like literally I feel right she just beams right and I'm like oh my gosh that's that's the love of God not like it's not that right to understand to understand the fact that this is how God is through everybody even without the resume right and the people with the resume when I start saying this oh the resume doesn't matter they got mad like how dare you say that you know how my long my resume is right I was like serving in church like when I was like in like you know in elementary school helping out my dad because my dad was a pastor at PK my resume is long it's generations long come on right come on right using my resume means nothing they were upset that's what their fears are upset they're like you could be you're gonna be generous with that guy Lawrence come on right I mean I mean you know somebody else but Lawrence come on they were upset so I was and they were getting mad there was this one freshman girl you know she's having a rough time and you know like rough patch right and she wasn't like the best girl and she kind of had a bad reputation and she heard what I was talking about and this is why sure she started doing she would grab me and go back come come come down share what you share with me with her and I was like what is happening she goes it's so good whereas my ceiling leaders like they're like like how is going to help people be committed right I mean like we've safely served for so long and I was like oh my gosh I'm having a Jesus moment like they're the Pharisees and this is literally the pastor like she going around she's like this is amazing I love this stuff I want to tell everybody who is moving toward God and who is far away we think of this is a miss you I just named Paul Heber he made this idea we think about ministry this way bound that said like oh people in this fellowship is good but who knows what people are doing right now UTD who knows some of the some of the who knows at that retroplace what's happening it's like neneva but what people over here the people of God over here they're on the inside over there in the wilderness they're the outside that's not what people think but it turns out it's not like that he says it's like this sometimes people who are very close are really far away they're like oriented toward God they're like God owes me like I've been slaving for God and the father's like you've been slaving what what do you mean slaving whereas other people they're like they're in their mess and they're like oh man I I'm desperate I need help they might not be no God yet but on their way right sin is distressing God in many ways either moral or spiritual or immoral or worldly right their faces the Pharisees were in danger because they just had no idea they were lost they're like I don't need God that's why it looks like that's the most dangerous sin you're like I'm good like you're good what does that mean right and so back to JMU I um so I was like you know you can stop right you don't have to do these things so I was saying with this one student leader she's a PK she's like no no no she's like I was like you're so tired you're so burnt out it's okay just take a quarter off right just take one semester off just see where you are it's like no no no I can do it right I can serve and as I go no no no I'm gonna I'm gonna recommend the fact that you take this semester off not lead not do anything you're good um she really fought it after after semester near afterwards um she said you know I've been to keep PK on my life and the small church I've done everything I've never stopped serving and I actually thought that if I stop serving somehow in the back of my mind God would love me less and as I was going through it I felt really like afraid like does God love me that much like does God love God's love go down you know like oh now it's like you know you're so burnt out it's your own fault like you know where's Lawrence I feel a lot lot what are you thinking man like why why are you not strong why are you not a man of God right why you have to take a rest no like God's already shining the the love of God just shining upon you why do you like it on that it's just coming down right as she realized oh my gosh what I've been doing and she said it didn't hit me I didn't get it I was doing it so much I didn't really get it this is this is what this is of all about fuck this other guys so I was like hey you know you guys like you're having a hard time understanding what God's love is why don't you do and I think that sometimes like people who actually grew up in like very legalistic background I think hey do a quiet time fast quiet time fast right and so I was like oh well do a church fast and I was like what am I um are you are you saying that we should sin I was like sin I didn't say go sin and fast is like a limited time nobody fast forever you die if you fast forever so I was like no just do a fast and see what happens because obviously you're burdened by it I mean you know it's not like they do it every day like they miss it like half a week it's like a quiet time's a regular thing half time because they're in college they miss church half time anyways so given that just do a fast the student said because one guy time is up hey I know we're doing quiet time fasting and uh you know first day I was driving and I was like oh all right second day um second day he said I got scared third day I was terrified and I was like what of God getting me I was like um you better do quiet time if God wasn't I get you you would have been gone like like ages ago like way back right what do you mean or if you are going to protect yourself against God with your quiet time I mean you're lazy half asleep five minute quiet time in not gonna protect your brother you in trouble right like you don't understand so I was like that's really weird and I said what do you think God's like what do you do these things though John on the other hand said first day I was like oh it's weird awkward right second day I was like it's so nice third day I said I don't think I'll ever do it again I'm free and I said wait wait wait wait wait so time over here is terrified and he's he's like I have to do it because I'm gonna protect myself and John over is like if I don't have to do it I'll never do it so I was like do you tell me me if you don't ever have to spend time with God you'll never spend time with God what kind of a God do you believe in that is what's weird for both of them they're both both their gods were bad and then it doesn't come back because everybody knows about the answer if I say God's love oh I love God my God's loving God God's because it's not a condition of they knew all the right things to say but when we start doing it all came out they're like oh no I don't want to do this thing I don't like it all right and I was like what do you think is it reward for spend time with God what do you think is a reward what what do you think because I'm gonna pick on I'm gonna pick on I'm gonna pick up Becca too right Becca if I said Becca because you know who know about Lauren she's lost cause no man I love you like God loves you okay Becca like what what is a reward when you worship God I'm not this is a rhetorical question right she's like I know haven't run the blog man what is a reward for it's been God let me think of it this way uh you know cause how delicious with God is a covenant to relationship it's it's a relationship that matters right what is my reward for taking my wife out on a date she cooks she does more chores I get more affection is that what it is what is my reward for taking care of my kids I mean sometimes when you're kids I remember like like three in the morning I speak the second one Priscilla she would just like just because we be co-slap with the kids and stuff like that and they she always just peed like I wake up and be like I'm like I'm swimming I'm like I was like oh my gosh like well put her right I'm like okay with the first baby like we worry it's like third by the third baby I'm like I just put some newspaper like look look at that let that's what happens but really sometimes like you're like oh my gosh I hate parenting but really I tell people like when you parent what is your reward for parenting it's parenting I'll tell you a six story I kind of disgusting but I'll do cause your college did you you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't yeah come on like we had this weird apartment oh I gotta wrap up soon weird apartment we had a weird apartment and uh they called it Jack and Jill kind of bathroom so you you know you opened one right and so our bedroom over here uh this is when we only had Annabelle the oldest one she's like two whatever and so there's a there's a bathroom in the middle and I think we locked the bathroom with this end and she was kind of sick and we're hanging out watching TV or whatever and then we hear something we're like oh what's going on and she goes and it turns out that the bathroom was closed and she was sick she was like sick you know and the she would call the bathroom but she didn't make it right and so there was like a puddle I mean it wasn't a puddle it wasn't a puddle it was it was I was like oh my gosh if you pick up a parent you know like excrement in parents like you know you get used to it right and but the thing is I looked at her face and it was a look like it's a two-year-old of this other shame right and I was like no you're my daughter you're good and I realized me being able to be a father for her right now even though it was so disgusting it gave me so much joy right I'm like no you're good we're getting it up it's all good because like she's like cries like as you know like it's like I feel like I did some terrible but I feel like you could that's the joy what's the joy of worshiping you get to worship God what's the joy of serving you get to serve God what's the joy of obeying you get to obey God you want some other reward you have the wrong God after this I realized oh I gotta do a ministry differently I have been motivating people for the wrong reasons and I need to make sure people take fast or they take breaks to know what's going on because I don't know what to do with why they do what they do especially sometimes there's like an excitement about just serving and I'm like sometimes you just like take a break and be like what is it all about because and I'll say this because being committed and really being excited over here for four years is actually quite easy I always talk about campus ministry being for like not four years for like over four years that's what I want because when you're in a place like this it's really fun to be involved and be committed but what you want is a kind of faith and the kind of knowledge of who God is let's just keep some going right salvation is knowing the heart of the other father that's what this is about right sometimes some of you will fail I mean it might be like a big moral failure like you might end up sleeping with somebody but you know what stuff happens right but you'll be able to rise through and continue on in faith because you know this is actually not the fundamental thing there's something even deeper something even deeper they will continue on and carry you on this is a radical grace of God and it's not to be the older older sons older siblings who are all medium faithful it's the people who see the sweetness of God is high worship and and I'm committed because I love doing it I love the fact that I get to do it let's spend some time responding in prayer our leaders in the time of prayer just for us to kind of respond back to God a second moment and I want you to imagine what God thinks of you right now like when God sees you right now what pops into God's head is it like oh yeah if you just get your act together in this area is it like that is it like is it like I don't I don't know I don't know where God is I don't know what my thoughts are but I'm happy to be hang out with friends over here God a gracious most loving our father remind us or show us or review to us how you sing over us how you delight over us that delight and that joy that you have in us is so transformative that it will really hit the very core of who we are God you pray that do this retreat you'll lead us to a deeper place of not just knowing all the Sunday school answers that we know what the answers are but that it would go to what we really believe what we really feel what's really happening inside of our hearts we thank you for who you are we thank you for this time that we can spend together we thank you for our brothers and sisters here who are able to be on this journey with us please do the same amen