Dirty Uncle Death Dealer - Brunswick, Georgia

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder express yay and choo-choo yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today on another why absolutely insane edition of small town murder express it's every week my express is yeah we're taking a wild murder case and we're stuffing it into an hour and that's what it is so can't wait to get to it before we do though absolutely head over to shut up and give me murder.com you need to get your tickets for live shows september 18th milwaukee i'm not sure there's anything left for that so it's about done might be a ticket here or there i'm not sure so check it if you really want to go and then the next night september 18th milwaukee i'm not sure there's anything left for that so it's about done might be a ticket here or there i'm not sure so check it if you really want to go and then the next night september 19th in minneapolis state theater 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you're watching on netflix hello and yeah if you're just checking this out now and you like the show we have hundreds more episodes wherever you listen to podcasts so check those out we're going to brunswick georgia brunswick just like the bowling brand or new brunswick or however you want to put it sure it's in southeastern georgia like far southeastern georgia over there uh about an hour to jacksonville so that's how close southeastern about four and a half hours to atlanta so way up way far away from there and about five hours more florida than yeah than atlanta pretty much yeah it's just kind of squeezed between south carolina and florida this little spot here it's five hours and 50 minutes to our last georgia episode which was cherry log georgia which is in the complete opposite end of the state northwest cherry log that was the tinkerbell witchcraft delusion was the name of that episode that was a crazy fucking episode georgia you bring it you bring it hard good job um yeah georgia's good because there's plenty of like suburban murders and then there's like middle of nowhere rural murders like you got it all going on down there for murder uh this is in glenn county or glenn county however they pronounce it g-l-y-n-n um it's glenn but some people pronounce that glenn depending on where you are um it's glenn but some people pronounce that glenn depending on where you are uh area code 912 population here 14,774 so not too small but also not a very big town for where it is kind of near the water median household income here yikes and part of this episode is that the job market sucked in brunswick median household income here 29,362 household that is low and uh median home cost here 209,000 which is great compared to the rest of the country but not great if you make 30 grand a year for your whole house impossible impossible uh it has two nicknames one is port city because it's on the water sure and the other is the shrimp capital of the world of the world world not even the southeast the entire asia fuck you i don't care what you got floating around off the coast we got more is what they're saying so history of this town um started out with the with the macama they were the the tribe that lived here um they lived in the lands it's now brunswick then the spanish came in and established missions in the villages um beginning in 1568 so wow they were down there a while um the first european settler was 1738 uh it was a scotsman um here who was a captain in the oglethorpe marine boat company and he is oglethorpe he established a ogie oglethorpe was here oh no he they established a 1,000 acre tobacco plantation um which he called plug point that's they called tobacco plug 1,000 acres of tobacco 1,000 acres of tobacco here um then the province of georgia purchased his fields and laid out the town of brunswick in a grid like savannah so they did that uh in 1915 there was a mass shooting in downtown brunswick 1915 um at the old dunwoody building uh a 58 taken some time no shit well a 58 year old timber and real estate dealer so a guy with some money it seems like monroe phillips opened fire with a shotgun at his creditor he's you want my money today are you gonna take my shit clack clack um bankers yeah this was over a failed business deal in the rampage he killed seven people including a police officer and injured over 30 others before finally being shot by the cops that's a lot of reloading that is a lot with a shotgun going around just wow wow reviews of this town here's five stars lovely place to live best shrimp in the world they are the shrimp capital of the world uh read sydney lanier's marshes of glen of glen that's just what it's like living here well you could have just described it i'm this is a review you describe it it's like an ex-girlfriend telling you to listen to a song yeah i'll tell you how no she feels yeah if i wanted to hear it from sydney lanier i'd go fucking ask sydney lanier i asked you currently i'm not going to listen to a song i'm not going to listen to a song i'm not a current resident from niche current resident niche user i asked you stop breaking me up with breaking up with me with casey and joe i don't need to hear it how dare you new fucking boys to mend me i'm not gonna have that yeah it's the end of the road okay thanks a lot uh perfect i'm here on bended knees what do you want from me i'm already here here's two stars i would say brunswick is a really small town there isn't really much to do here unless you and here is har by the way not much to do here unless you want to go to saint simon's island or to jacksonville florida which i want to go to neither of those places so nothing to do here and finally oh two more here's one star fourth most violent city in georgia fourth most really um you pretty well have to be in the good old boy network to get anything done i only go to town when i have no other option town is very dirty okay and then finally one star brunswick is very expensive and the people are rude and finding work is difficult as well i feel stuck here and i can't even find a decent single guy to go out with i'm ready to go with five exclamation point six exclamation points there's not even a single guy to go ready to go things to do here the original brunswick georgia tribute festival what is that well let me let me give you the one line here we hope to provide you with a lot of great entertainment at a discounted price the least expensive elvis festival anywhere that's a charge for that they're charging for elvis and they have a whole lineup of elvis impersonators we're gonna go up and sing the same fucking songs the last guy they're all gonna sing you know blue guys that stand on the street and do it for free and you can go to vegas and see a million of these guys for not a dime they have nick perkins georgia's 2025 champion of Elvis in person. They have a state title for this. Hosted by Dan Barella. Not sure if he does an Elvis or not. Also, Brunswick's own Dana Myers, who's just some chick with very white teeth who looks like she is like a local newscaster, possibly an Elvis relative. Then there's Jay Dupius, who it says, ultimate Elvis tribute artist. What's the ultimate? He's the ultimate. He's got fat sideburns. That's the ultimate. And he gets fat and skinny based on his medication. Michael Chambliss, images of the king world champion. World champion of Elvis-ing. And then finally, Jordan Poole, who is New York's 2024 champion. He's going more young Elvis. He's got like this. He doesn't have the jumpsuit. He's got like a sport, like a pink sport coat and the shorter. He's a younger guy, so he can't do like old fat Elvis. He's got to be young Elvis. Yeah, slack Elvis rather than that. And then also, there is the Double Trouble Show Band, which do not appear to be Elvis impersonators. It's four old men and some old broad, and they're all wearing the same vests. Why are they doing this in Georgia? Isn't he from fucking Tennessee? Yeah, Mississippi, Tupelo born, and then Tennessee. Tupelo, right? Yeah, Tupelo, Mississippi. And then he made it in Memphis, so what the fuck? I'm not sure. But it's all going to culminate. This electrifying show will feature a lineup of classic hits. This is a different thing, a 50s show that they have going on there from rockabilly legends like Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Wanda Jackson, and so much more. But it'll be sung by these people who you've never heard of. So it's so much more, but not exactly that much more. That said, let's talk about some murder. Let's do it. Let's do this. All right. We got to go back to February 1989. February 1989. People still think Milli Vanilli are singing, and they're blaming it on the rain. They're like, wow, those guys sing like angels. Look at them. For skinny German. I'm sorry. Go ahead. That was the first new decade that I experienced, like on New Year's, like going into 90. Yeah, yeah. And didn't feel any different. And it's really set me up for understanding that each decade, New Year's doesn't fucking matter. It's all the same. Doesn't matter at all. Three, four years in. That's it, man. Yeah, they were all still on the Milli Vanilli train. For two skinny German guys, they sure sound like fat black Southern people. That's pretty impressive. Good job, guys. So February 89, let's talk about Jolene Kappus, K-A-P-P-U-S. Jolene, sometimes called Mary by her family. No idea why. May as well. What the hell? Now, Jolene is deaf and mute. Oh, whoa. Start out with that. Jolene, deaf, mute. Well, I guess mute, if you're deaf, you're basically mute, too. Some deaf people can talk. But she has no sound no matter what. Yeah, she just signs. She's a sign language person here. So she's deaf and mute. That's according to the court documents. That's how they put it. I don't know if there's a better way to put it. I'm not sure. Now, that hasn't stopped her social life. She's on her third husband by 1989. So, I mean, she communicates just fine here. Her third husband is Patrick Russell Kappus. He's born in 1948. They're about the same age. Patrick is from Wisconsin. And he is a civilian employee at the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base. So, he's doing that. That's a pretty big deal. He's got a job, anyway. And jobs are hard to come by in this area, apparently, in 1989. So, it's a decent job. They have a daughter who's about 15 at this point. She's born on August 14, 1973. She hasn't turned 16 yet. So, she's about 15 years old. And she's. She was born in Oklahoma. So, they've moved around quite a bit, the family. I think everyone's originally. Jolene is originally from Texas and her family. And he's from Wisconsin. She's a student at the Glenn Academy. And, you know, that's their little family. They live in a rented, single-story brick home off U.S. Highway 341, just outside of Brunswick proper. Okay? It's in the Arco community, which is northwestern Brunswick. Now. Okay. In February of 1989. This is ridiculous. Okay. Jolene has a half-brother who, by the way, she's not sure if he's. This is wild. Later it comes out. She's not sure if he's her half-brother or her cousin, which I don't know how the fuck those two could be confused. Well, because it gets lost in translation. He's either my half-brother. Yeah. He's either my half-brother or my cousin. He's either my half-brother or my cousin, but I'm not sure which one. His half-brother and cousin, are the signs for that similar? Yeah. She just doesn't know? Not sure. No, she literally doesn't know what he is to her, which is fucking hilarious. That is very. Seems like you know. How would you not know? Did you come from one of my parents' fucking insides or not? Which. Or did you come from one of their siblings' insides? Yeah. Pretty easy. Start with the parents of him or her, and then you'll know. You'll know. You'll know what they are to you. But February of 89, the brother decides he's moving from Deleon, Texas, or Deleon, Texas, D-E capital L-E-O-N, could be. You could pronounce that 17 different ways in Texas, to Brunswick to live with her family, which, you know, that's going to be great. He's also going to bring his seven-year-old son with him as well. So this is adding quite a bit to the household. Now, this guy is Roddy Elroy Childress. Okay. He sounds fun already. Old Roddy Childress here. He brings a seven-year-old son, like I said. He's got another son named James, born in 1970, who isn't with him. And I believe that is because he is doing a stint for armed robbery, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, Roddy's a great dad. Roddy is a terrible father, as we'll hear. Not a great guy. Now, Jolene will say that, basically, Roddy just moved into their home against her husband's wishes. He said, no, no, don't come. And Patrick did. And Roddy was like, I'll be there on Tuesday. And he just showed up. They were like, literally told him, look, dude, there's no work here. The job market's tight. You're not going to be able to find work. I can't set you up with anything. Can't hook you up. I got no anything. And he was like, I'll be there. We're not even sure how you're related to us. Yeah. I mean, he's like, I'll be there. Don't you worry about it. They're as sure of how he's going to make a living as how he's related to Jolene. They're as sure of either one here. So he showed up anyway in summer of 88. The late summer of 88, they said. But it could be 89 because we're not sure. Because I thought it was, they said it was February 89. But then there's other things saying it was late 88. So either way. Brings his seven-year-old son, Jason, like I said. Once he moved in, he does nothing. He doesn't look for work. He just sits there. Which is not great in a tight economic environment with a lot of people in one house. So that's not good. Jolene later said, He just sat back, became a little bit angry. That's what he said. And absorbed our resources. Yeah. And he said, Patrick started to get very angry. Her husband did not like that. Now, she later said she discovered that Roddy had a handgun in his suitcase. Okay. He brought it with him. Now, at her husband's insistence, Patrick insisted that the weapon be locked in the drawer of a china cabinet. And Jolene keeps the keys with her. So he can't have a gun just, you know, willy-nilly around the house. Um, sometimes it was in her purse or sometimes under her pillow when she slept. Just put it somewhere. She puts it all over the place. She's like holding it, like putting it in her bra. She's made it her gun. It's, yeah, this is my key. She keeps the key like it's a gun. Like, I'm going to store it here. Oh, the key. Okay. The key itself, not the gun. Yeah. So April 1989, the Kappas family decides to move to Jacksonville, Florida. Really? Okay. Which is only an hour away. And it's just a bigger environment. With more jobs and shit. Better work. This is based on Roddy's, I want to say, suggestion and prodding. But really much just kind of forcing this family that we're going to move to Florida. All of us. Wow. Like, Florida's that way, motherfucker. Enjoy. Yeah. We're, our kid's in school. He's got a job at the submarine place. Like, we don't need to go there. Um. I'm your ward now. And I decide we move to Florida. That's, that's wild. Uh, they also have another sister named Darlene Morris who will come up later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's a sister of Darlene's as well. We don't, that's an actual sister of Jolene's. Okay. She's not sure whether Roddy is a half-brother or a cousin either. It's like wedding crashers. Dude. I know. From Uncle Ned's kids. I have two half-brothers. I never, and I have a shitload of cousins. Never mixed them up once. Never was like, are you my brother or my cousin? Never had that question. Wild. So, Saturday, April 29th, 1989, the family rents a U-Haul truck and starts loading it with their possessions. Wow. And they take a dangerous journey. And a truck they're unqualified to drive down the coast here. So. Roddy really got them influenced, huh? Yeah. He's pushy. Roddy's pushy. Yeah. Um, and he's older than Jolene too. I think that also is something. Um, now David Berry is a family friend of the Kappuses and he was helping them load up the U-Haul for the move. Yeah. Um, he told her at that point that the gun was on, he found it on top of the China cabinet, not in it. Oh. So he's like, the gun's up here. so that was was an interesting thing it ended up not being in the drawer now apparently yeah roddy took the initiative to plan this move himself he booked the u-haul he even uh rented them a house already in in florida like he's taking care of all the arrangements roddy's like i got this so they're gonna move to to jacksonville and everyone thinks everyone's gonna be able to get work there everything's gonna be great now they have a one day delay in their departure i don't know what that is who the fuck knows it might have been a missed a missed sign between jolene and her husband i thought we were leaving on thursday no wednesday yeah you know so she signed a different date yeah it's it's hard to do so their plan is to drive to jacksonville in two vehicles the rented truck and the family car that's how we're gonna do this it's gonna be the morning of may 1st 89 that's how you do things in a caravan now shortly before 7 a.m on may 1st 89 neighbors of the capuses say they heard a gunshot followed by the sound of patrick yelling followed closely by three more gunshots at 7 a at 7 a.m which will piss you off if somebody does that at 7 a.m four gunshots and some screaming is not good not great for a morning time thing now i mean moving stressful people might be moving i don't know why they'd be bucking shots off into the ceiling but i could see yelling um sure minutes later a neighbor of the capuses say they heard a gunshot followed by the sound of patrick yelling the neighbor observed roddy standing alone near the shed behind the house just standing near it alone hanging out okay now may 4th let's move three days in the future okay all right on may 4th jolene has to report patrick and emma missing her husband and daughter oh i'm sure that's not easy they never showed up in jacksonville okay as we'll talk about now she goes to the police to report them missing and tell them what's been going on in the last year and a half to help out now here is what jolene says has been going on and happened for the last four days okay on the night of april 30th patrick and roddy stayed up late talking after jolene and the two kids went to bed the 15 year old and the seven year old roddy's kid at about 10 or 11 the next morning jolene woke up alone she said i just woke up alone um it's kind of i will give being deaf would suck but the fucking gotta be the hardest that's a terrible blind is worse blind is way worse i but by sucks i mean it's a it's not even close it's right there it's deaf sucks i don't even think it's that close no to me i i would i'd be deaf a hundred times over before i'd be blind you can make me i don't even know how you'd be extra deaf but i'd take that over even being like having like a glaucoma i would rather be deaf and deaf is i'm not saying deaf's easy but blind is fucking crazy at least you can see you can see what's going on and you can see what's going on what you're wiping out of your ass if you're deaf you know what i mean like you don't know if you just paid with a 20 you don't know if you just got the correct change you don't know if there's traffic like you don't know that's tough man you can't drive no it's really tough but the great thing about being deaf would be how you must be able to sleep fucking incredibly dogs barking no problem fucking i didn't even consider alarm alarm going off you just i'd have to have a taser set up oh it would be i'd have i'd be the most rested person ever but that's the only good part of being deaf right there and not having to hear assholes but or country music i'd have to have a peewee peewee herman device set up that would end with a taser hitting me yeah a rube goldberg contraption the dog eats the thing and it rolls into the other thing yeah so she woke up alone she was unable to locate either patrick or emma and asked roddy where'd my husband and daughter go so roddy told her well they went to the store to buy some soda so you know for the trip and all um jolene was like well why the car's still here why the hell didn't they take the car why would they not take the car um and they never went she said they never walked to the store there's no reason to they had a car and it was you know it's not a block away it's a good distance so there's no point and she knew patrick wanted to leave early that day for jacksonville so she's like why why is he dicking off now taking the longer route walking to the store so she waited a while for patrick and emma and then jolene again asked roddy where they went where are they they're still not back yet so he said i don't know maybe they're getting some exercise which would be stopped off at the gym yeah no no you know they're gonna do some laps they have a couple of two liters they're gonna use his weights now it's a whole thing they're doing exercising before you go on a long trip you like to exercise so meanwhile they've been loading a truck for two days which is plenty exercise so they're going to do some laps and so much exercise so jolene was like that doesn't sound right or that doesn't look right however you want to put it um you know i guess it doesn't nothing sounds right to jolene this is janna kramer from wind down with janna kramer i had this moment the other day where i thought why am i waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life i don't need a week off just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing and so i went to resortpass.com there are hundreds of hotel resort pools spas and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night i booked a one-day pass at the four seasons hotel in spa nashville and i'm like wow why am i just learning about resort pass i may have only been 15 minutes from home but it felt like a whole different world i found myself settled into a cabana just smiling umbrella drink my favorite book lunch brought right to me and i'm thinking this is exactly what i needed luxury resort day passes start at just 25 it's a great deal go to resortpass.com slash janna and use my code janna to get 20 off when you spend a hundred dollars that's code janna at resortpass.com slash janna um she was like i don't know so she stepped out of the house and looked around she noticed there was a lock on the door of the shed now that wasn't there before and she asks roddy yeah why is the shed locked up and she asked roddy about it and roddy said patrick uh patrick put it there because we're leaving he just didn't want people to be able to break into the shed and she said patrick put it there because we're leaving and he just said you know do whatever so you know vandalize it or live in there or whatever um so jolene said that makes sense and she sat and waited for a period of time and then finally roddy was like we gotta hit the road they'll be i don't know where they are but we gotta get on the road now we gotta go it's jacksonville time okay so jolene was confused and didn't understand was like what no we gotta wait for them and he was like they'll they'll catch up don't worry about it we'll take the van and they'll catch up in the car no big deal okay so she said i guess so yeah um sure um you know i guess he's gonna be so he tells her you take the car you take my son in the car and i will follow again uh in the truck with patrick and emma i'll wait for them here in the truck you go ahead and get going so that makes sense now they get to jacksonville and jolene is unable to get into the house which she had been told that roddy rented for the family apparently that she doesn't work it's just not a final thing the rent it's not a it's not a done deal okay so they have not rented this house so she shows up and has nowhere to go now she and jason sat there waiting for hours and hours and hours on the stoop of a house that does not belong to them in a strange city with none of their belongings okay finally he pulls up in the van and he's like i don't know what's going on roddy shows up in the van yeah and with by himself though no patrick no emma okay he said look patrick and emma are still in brunswick and then like two hours later he has another story for them they're still in brunswick because they went to the airport because they had to go fly to see patrick's father who is ill patrick just found out his dad's ill so he said i gotta i'm gonna take emma to go see my dad and i'll meet you in jacksonville and he told me to tell you first they went to go eat some sodas yeah it's been a crazy day for it's been a long day for them yeah they must have found out at the convenience store that yeah his dad was sick so roddy jason and jolene spend the night in jacksonville in a motel and after that apparently this is according to jolene now all of this this is her story um right roddy repeatedly abandoned her for long periods of time until ultimately one day he and jason just vanished with the u-haul like one day they were just gone she got up and they're gone deal so she is now a deaf woman alone in a strange city with no resources in her car no money and literally all she has is her clothes on her back in her car what the fuck this is her this poor woman she can't communicate she's at the heart she needs someone who speaks sign language to be able to communicate with them so it's very difficult so uh on the night of may 2nd jolene slept in the car she spent the following night in a homeless shelter they didn't oh my god this is ridiculous yeah she borrowed a small amount of money because people felt bad it's one thing to show up and be like hey look i'm you know i had a hard time but if you show up and you're deaf and you have a hard time people are like oh fuck we got to help this lady jesus christ - And you know people beg for change and stuff and start off with this fucking unbelievable story and you just want to give them five dollars and send them on their way yeah she probably is it's harder because she can't say anything she can't even give you the story that's what I mean it's hard so and someone who spoke sign language I'm sure was like okay we gotta fucking help this lady so anyway she got some gas money enough gas money to drive to Brunswick it's only an hour away so not that bad to find Patrick and Emma where the fuck are they so she drives back to Brunswick here she said she just wanted to find out what happened upon arriving she found no trace of Patrick or Emma or the U-Haul or anything else nobody's there so then she files a missing persons report with the county police department on May 4th and that's where we're at now okay but that's her story of what has led her up to May 4th and why she's here alone with nothing now May 5th is the official they're officially missing Patrick and Emma with the cops and they're gonna go look for them saying they never came to Jacksonville so about 8pm Glynn County officers investigating these missing persons report went to the they said let's start with the house you just moved out of that's a good place to start so they look through the whole house and they don't find anything then they're told about the shed and the lock and they're like hmm that's odd so we can look in there they pop the lock off of there and inside they find a big mattress underneath the mattress is the bodies of Patrick and Emma both of them both of them have been shot multiple times with a.32 caliber weapon they've been dead several days also it's pretty clear oh Jesus in Florida I mean in Georgia it's August in the southeast yeah stuck in a shed when they opened that door oh man there was something so they'd each been shot in the head both of them um which obviously is horrific here um so ultimately basically the police don't even notify Jolene themselves about this they they treat her like she's not even a person almost with this like literally like well we can't how the hell do we sign that your your husband uh they they one of them and your your daughter yeah you know you shove her out that she what's the sign for a child that came out of you what's just like one of them just fire from the from the loin is that where we go so they have to get a friend to inform her that which is probably better to hear from a friend than some cop you don't know I would think yeah from a cop who's gonna be cold about it yeah so they said they discovered the bodies hidden beneath a mattress in the shed um now what they also find because now they look into what's been going on since then the day after the Jacksonville move a two hundred dollar check was cashed that was uh made out to Patrick but cashed after he was dead alright and on that check they find Roddy's palm print not good for Roddy okay problem is where the fuck is Roddy they don't know where he is yeah they have no idea so I'm so I'm so sick it's gross it gets grosser don't worry oh man for nothing for nothing well we'll find out um okay this is yeah it's it's what went down was not good for something well what he did isn't really for something but if he was dead you'd understand it put it that way yeah so Roddy the police post a lookout for Roddy they're just they're looking everywhere and he's driving a 24 foot fucking U-Haul van with seatbelts with quote this is from the newspaper scenic drawings painted on its side you know a U-Haul you know the ones you know the ones and a Virginia license plate RA23947 so he shouldn't be hard to find no he's the guy with a giant desert landscape on the side of his fucking truck it says Virginia is for lovers down the side yeah you gotta know that so on May 5th is the nationwide you know manhunt basically and a couple days later they find the van not him though the van is found empty yeah all the all the worldly worldly possessions of the campuses are gone gone empty van abandoned and on Ormond Beach but no sign of Roddy Childress where's Ormond Beach isn't that Ormond Beach I don't know meets me maybe I mean that would make sense no it might be Florida not sure yeah I'm not sure so anyway the people in the Brunswick neighborhood are freaked out because they don't know where this guy is obviously he's a murderer on the loose people the newspaper said that the this neighborhood of Arco was in shock as word spread that the bodies of a neighborhood man and his 15 year old daughter with bullet holes in their heads had been found in a storage shed behind the house the shock grew when they issued a murder warrant for the man's brother-in-law they suspect the motive was robbery at the time one neighborhood woman said let's just say I'm a little nervous I really don't want to talk about it this whole thing scares me and then she refused to identify herself out of fear he's gonna come for me she's actually genuinely scared well she might be the lady who said I heard the gunshot and Patrick yelling too which that might be that now insurance comes in Jolene gets two hundred thirty thousand dollars in insurance money from this death which to them is I don't even know how long it would take them to make two hundred and thirty thousand dollars it's incredible in 1989 in 89 that is a fuckload of money anyway but if you're super poor it's a crazy amount of money and after they've been married for years I mean they've been married since Emma was born and Patrick only recently in the last year made her the beneficiary of this life insurance policy made Jolene the beneficiary which makes no sense that's weird so more than a year goes by with nothing no sign of Roddy he is he disappeared for over a year in the wind gone poof like a ghost August 4th 1990 in Denver Denver he is arrested the FBI arrests him after members of his special weapons and tactics team surrounded the Denver house where he was staying they they thought they used the SWAT team because they thought he might try to use his son as a hostage and he was arrested without resistance they did not release obviously the son isn't like in cuffs or anything he's like 8 so the arrest came after the FBI received an anonymous tip regarding his whereabouts how about that sometimes you get lucky you know so they sit Roddy down and Roddy's got a story of his own once he's brought back to Georgia he has a couple different stories by the way this is the story he tells the police and kind of what he tells his attorneys but the FBI tells a completely different story too and just says he had nothing to do with anything that's what he says to them okay now according to him sometime in the early morning hours of May 1st the day they were leaving Patrick woke him up and asked him if he knew where Emma was okay now Patrick was agitated this is according to Childress by the way according to Roddy he was pissed off and expressed concern that Emma might be with her boyfriend who lives down the street okay she might have taken off with him to have a last fling before they leave you gotta sow those Georgian oats that's what you gotta do so before they become Floridian oats you gotta do that Jacksonville oats so Roddy tells Patrick that he didn't know where Emma was Patrick left the house and Roddy went back to sleep now Roddy says he later awoke to the sounds of voices in the yard and he went outside and saw a literal tug of war with a human being yeah take a human being one person grab one arm one person grab the other and pull her until she splits it out and that's what he said the boyfriend and the dad he said no no no no no no Jolene and Patrick he says Jolene and Patrick are having a tug of war an anger an angry tug of war with Emma in the yard literally pulling her arms in different directions which seems ridiculous now what the baby I don't know Patrick is also hearing impaired by the way oh really yes Patrick is also has hearing issues as well so Patrick this is fucking wild somehow Roddy says he sees this scene now he said he woke up to voices but then he goes out there and says that they're pulling her and also trying to sign at each other and Patrick is furiously trying to sign at Emma when she's holding the arm sign at Jolene while she's pulling on Emma and they're trying to sign I don't know how you could pull someone and sign at the same time I don't know how you do that but he's attempting to communicate with Jolene in sign language I guess Patrick speaks and does sign language now in the course of the struggle Emma fell to the ground lucky they didn't rip her in half I guess but she fell to the ground and Patrick tried to help her up now a gun which he had just now Roddy brings a gun into the room the story, Patrick was holding a gun in one hand and he's trying to help emma up now i don't know why you'd have the gun still in your hand while you're trying to help your daughter up but he says as he's pulling emma up he accidentally fired the gun and shot emma in the head that's what he said so just the gun goes off emma's shot in the head so he says that he watched jolene and patrick both recoil with shock oh my goodness sure obviously yeah jolene scared deaf people oh obviously yeah well i think i think brain matter coming out of your daughter's head scares that'll do it too yeah anybody yeah that'll do it so and you'll see muzzle flash i mean deaf or not you know when a gun went off you probably feel the concussion of it i would imagine right probably feel it yeah yeah you probably feel especially from a 15 year old's arm distance away you know what i mean if you're i had a deaf friend in high school that had a crazy stereo in his car and he liked the vibrations you yeah yeah i've heard that a lot deaf people like the vibrations he doesn't know what the fuck he hears but he knows what he feels i don't know what they're saying but i like that baseline i can't spell method man like that but it doesn't matter i like the baseline so jolene then this is according to roddy grabbed the gun because apparently he dropped it you know when he shot emma grab the gun and aimed it at patrick okay now we got a standoff yeah and patrick walked backward away from her toward the shed he said jolene continued to bear down on patrick with the gun and go toward him that's when roddy ran to emma to check her vital signs you know because he's an emt and all which he has no medical training but he's like hey you guys are acting crazy i'm gonna be the sane one here i'll jump in and check vital signs now he's she said after a few moments jolene fired at patrick three times yeah and then he's like i don't know what he's like and then threw down the gun okay so roddy said then he got up from emma and went over to where patrick lay down by the shed and determined that he was also dead just like emma from gunshot wounds so now he's checked both of these people they're both dead he said he and jolene were both very shaken as one would be i would i believe it yeah um jolene's she said jolene this is his quote jolene's state of mind was such that they could not communicate well about what to do which i think he's got a no sign language to be able to communicate at all here we have challenges without the the shootings yeah without yeah totally so you add a shooting into this so his thoughts he said his thoughts were racing and he was wondering whether he should call the police or an ambulance um he was also worried that his now eight-year-old son would wake up and see the bodies he didn't want that obviously and he's also worried about what the neighbors may have seen or heard and feared the consequences for not only his sister but himself as well if he called for help you know who knows reactions yeah who knows so now the reason is also he's not even supposed to be outside of texas because he is on probation for receiving stolen property in texas well not allowed to not allowed to leave the state without permission um and if basically he'd be put in jail for being here so if he calls the cops he's going to jail period and he would immediately lose custody of his son he said um to his former wife who roddy felt uh is not an appropriate parent and he thought that she wasn't an appropriate parent because she had recently tried to kill herself a bunch of times that's what roddy says now he said he's contemplating the possibilities and he just doesn't know what to do so he attempts to move emma's body into the house all right He said he knew both victims were beyond resuscitation, and he abandoned those efforts, and he got Jolene to help him in moving the bodies to the shed as an interim measure, just a staging area, just for now. Temporary storage. So that Jason, the son, and the neighbors would not see them before Roddy had time to think it through and figure out what to do here. This story is incredible. It's a wild story he's telling. Fucking deaf people arguing while pulling a 15-year-old. It's crazy. So he also said after a short interval, Jolene went to the shed and retrieved several items from Patrick's pockets, including a $200 check made out to Patrick as a return for their deposit on the Brunswick house, their security deposit. Jolene handed, he says, Roddy a lock from the U-Haul truck and asked him to lock the shed. This is all Jolene. Okay. Her daughter's just been murdered. Fine with her. She's okay with this. She's just operating normally. But she solved it. She fixed the problem. It's okay. All fixed. When Roddy went to the shed to lock it, he saw that Jolene had dropped or placed a mattress over their bodies as well. You know, cover them up. He said the two of them then decided that Jolene would leave for Jacksonville with Jason and that Roddy would follow later in the truck after he finished loading it. Don't you think? Don't you think? The landlord's going to look in the shed when he inspects the house again, like to rent it or what? What's the plan here? My ex-wife isn't a good enough parent to have my son, but this person who I just watched murder a man, certainly take my kid. Head on down. Please. Yeah. Take him across state lines alone, too, by the way. You do whatever you want with him. I'll get you. So they decided they're going to leave for Jacksonville and all of that. So eventually. Roddy, Jason and Jolene were reunited in Jacksonville is from what he said. Jolene claimed she was unable to locate the house, which she and Patrick had rented. So the three of them spent the night in a motel. The next day, they cashed the check, which Jolene had taken from Patrick's pocket. And as the hours wore on, Roddy became increasingly suspicious of Jolene's behavior. She's up to something. And worried that perhaps she was plotting to report to the police that he had killed them. And get herself out of this whole thing. I've been scared of this for a year. Not trusting her. Yeah. Well, yeah. So he said he fabricated a story that the truck needed repair and left in it with Jason. He said, I'm going to take the truck, my son, and then we're going to go fix this truck and then we'll be fine. He said that his own money was missing from his luggage. Jolene must have stolen it. Of course, she's evil. This one. So he sold a few items from the truck. You know, other people. Shit. Her shit. Dead people's things. Placed the remainder in storage, but bought bus tickets back home to Texas for himself and Jason and then left. He said that upon arriving in Texas, for some reason, he realized that he and Jason might not be safe there. So he immediately bought tickets to Colorado. Once there, he and Jason stayed in a homeless shelter until he could find work. And they continued to live in Colorado until he was apprehended. By the way, never enrolled this fucking eight-year-old in school for a fucking year. Kept this kid hidden. Oh, my. Which is horrific. That's awful. But you can't if you're on the lam. That's the problem. So, yeah, that's why you don't go on the lam with your fucking seven-year-old. Right. You know, that's crazy. That's why you don't cause issues to where you have to be on the lam. Yeah. So now he's arrested and held for murder. Jolene, they don't believe his story about Jolene doing this because it just doesn't make a lot of sense. It's a crime. It's a story. That's what it is. She got nothing out of this except heartache and, you know, nights in a homeless shelter. So there's nothing to gain here. She goes on. In 1992, she marries a man named Johnny Serak. S-E-R-A-K. She gets remarried in 1992. She has no trouble communicating with people when she wants them to marry her because this is her fourth husband now. Point at the finger and do the finger. The signal. That's it. Now, enter Dale Lark, Lark, Larkay, L-A-R-Q-U-E, Larkay, Lark, Dale Lark Sr., another deaf man, by the way. Okay. Oh, God. Now, Dale said he visited Jolene in December, this is, I think, 92 or 93, not sure which year, at her Oklahoma City home because that's where she's living now. Sure. At the time, Jolene was married. Married, but separated from Johnny Serak. So that didn't last long. Now, this guy, this Lark guy, said that Jolene asked him if he would kill Serak for $50,000. I'll give you 50 grand if you'll kill this guy. He came to the police with this and said, look, this lady asked me to kill somebody. What's going on? So she, he said that, quote, Jolene said you want to make some money working. And Lark said that I was thinking it was possible. And he testified later on that Jolene then said, why don't you take some poison and put it in a drink or a sandwich or something? That's how you can kill him. Okay. So he said that he was surprised by this request because he considered Johnny Serak a good friend of his. So he was like, why the fuck would I do that? And he said, quote, I didn't want any trouble. I didn't want any problems. I'm just trying to be deaf and stay out of people's way. That's all. I don't want any trouble. He said at that. At that point, Jolene's live-in boyfriend, who she separated from her husband and living with a guy named Harry Jennings, came home soon after Jolene made her proposal. And this Lark guy. I told him he had and Lark told him he had to leave because Jolene had angered him. Right. OK, now, Lark did not say whether he told the Harry Jennings guy what Jolene had said, but he did say that Jolene asked him to not tell anyone what they had discussed. So Lark said he later returned to his home in Wichita Falls, Texas, and told his wife what happened. Then the following weekend, he saw Johnny Serac at a flea market and told him about this as well. Hey, your wife wants to kill you, by the way. Fifty grand, your work. It's not bad. Evidently, yeah. So they said, well, later on, they asked Lark, why didn't you report? Because he doesn't report this till later, till way down the road. Way down the road. And they said, why didn't you report it to the police? And he said he just wanted to protect his family and not be involved, which I get it. Hey, I don't want to even be involved in this shit. She's hiring. She murders. She's dangerous. I don't want to be a part of this. And they said, why would she come to you for this? Why would she think you were this? And he said, well, I was in a motorcycle gang from 1969 to 1980. And so she knew I was involved in the underworld, basically, outlaw shit. But now he said, I'm a family man. I don't hang around bikers anymore. I don't even have a motorcycle, and I don't want any part of this shit. I'm trying to relax. Now, John Serac, the husband, said his wife, Jolene, made him take out two $100,000 life insurance policies on him while they were married. He said, I felt like I couldn't pay the premiums. She said she would pay them. Okay. Now, Serac also said he didn't know why his wife felt that she needed two life insurance policies on him. And that shortly after Patrick and Emma were killed, Jolene sent a plane ticket to his Chattanooga, Texas home, and he flew to Florida to meet her. This is Jana Kramer from Wind Down with Jana Kramer. I had this moment the other day where I thought, why am I waiting for my next vacation to enjoy life? I don't need a week off. Just a day to rest and recharge would be amazing. And so I went to resortpass.com. There are hundreds of hotel resort pools, spas, and private beaches that you can be enjoying today without spending the night. I booked a one-day pass at the Four Seasons Hotel in Spa, Nashville. And I'm like, wow, why am I just learning? I'm learning about Resort Pass. I may have only been 15 minutes from home, but it felt like a whole different world. I found myself settled into a cabana, just smiling. Umbrella drink, my favorite book, lunch brought right to me. And I'm thinking, this is exactly what I needed. Luxury resort day passes start at just $25. It's a great deal. Go to resortpass.com slash Jana and use my code Jana to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code Jana at resortpass.com. Slash Jana. Okay. So this is someone she's had in the works for a while. Not like she met him after this. The two then traveled to Orlando, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota with Jolene paying all the expenses. Sirak said after he and his wife separated in April 92, he canceled the insurance policies because him and his mother had found some things that worried him. He said, I was scared. I felt like something bad was going on. What in the hell? What in the hell is going on? What the fuck? So David Lee Berry, he comes forward here. This is in the pretrial shit. This is from the lawyer. Roddy's lawyers find this. And now David Lee Berry Jr. says a pistol that appeared to be a 32 caliber is the same pistol. That's by the way, same caliber used to kill Patrick and Emma. He said that Jolene was waving the pistol around the night before the murders. That 32. He said that he was a friend of theirs. And he said that Jolene waved the weapon around. Then later hit it in her bedroom. And then within hours, Patrick and Emma were killed. He said he often visited the campus home, Patrick and Jolene's house. And after midnight, May 1st, 1989, he stopped by their house on the way home from work. And Childress was there, as were Jolene and Emma. Berry said they were upset because $600 was missing. And Jolene was mad. So this guy said Roddy was looking for $600. He was trying to find it. And Barry said he saw the gun. He put it on top of the cabinet, questioned Jolene about it. He said she then took the gun down and started waving it around. And Barry said Emma started crying and I was scared, too. Jolene went and hid the gun in her bedroom. Now a cellmate of in the Glynn County Jail comes forward. One of Roddy's cellmates. This is a guy named Benny Cope. And he said this is after he got out of jail and stuff. He went and said, listen, we were both. We were both being held in protective custody. And Roddy Childress told me that the reason that he killed those people is because he got caught having sex with Emma. Oh, no. He got caught raping his niece, essentially. And, quote, he got caught and they wound up dead. So that's what he said. That's all he would say. He said he wouldn't say he killed them, but all he would say is he got caught and they wound up dead. That's the only language he would use. So 1994, they have a hard time picking the jury out, by the way, because this is a pretty gross case. And a lot of people in the county have heard about it. Now, the prosecution talks about basically evidence that shows that Patrick and Emma were killed at 645 a.m. Now, the defense attorneys say this actually happened during an argument at 3 a.m., not at 645 a.m. When people heard gunshots, obviously. Now, the state asserts that he shot them because Patrick discovered Childress sexually abusing his teenage daughter. And he said, oh, I will murder you in my home now, as any normal human being would do. The defense here, though, they described the whole tug of war thing in the accidental shooting. That's their case. They said that once the bodies were found, also authorities botched the physical evidence in the case. The autopsy. The autopsy was done in a garage, not the morgue. What? And, yeah, not the morgue, not in a sterile, whatever, morgue environment. And that, which they have mobile things for this sometimes, but. Yeah, but I've got a three-car bay. I'm only using two. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know what kind of garage it was. If it was a garage, they set up. Remember on the wire when all the bodies came out of the water, they set them all up in that high school gym and shit on the floor. That was an easier way to deal with it because they didn't have room in the morgue. But this is too. Two people. This isn't, you know, 50 people. You've got to have room for that. I would imagine so. And they also said the autopsy reports incorrectly described the victim's wounds as well. And the investigators did not take medical samples to determine if Emma had been assaulted sexually also. Oh, my God. So Jolene testifies. And this is, by the way, quote, it was a tedious day of testimony for Kappas. This is from the newspaper because they had to ask her questions. And then they were released. They were laid in sign language by an interpreter. She would respond in sign language. And then the interpreter would tell. So to do that, it's like if you watch any foreign language person, it's difficult to watch. It takes four times as long. And they said that was, you know, had to keep going on. Jolene was presented by the prosecution as a befuddled woman whom Roddy led on a wild goose chase between Jacksonville and South Georgia in search of her husband and child. Who, unbeknownst to her, had been murdered. So Jolene said that her husband did not own a gun, but Roddy did. And she denied telling an acquaintance named Richard Geis, who we'll talk about, G-E-I-S-E, that she killed the two to collect insurance policies worth over $200,000. Because there's a guy testifying for Roddy that says she told me this, but she's denying it. All right. Jolene testifies she was inside the house, most likely sleeping at the time the neighbors heard gunshots. But she said, the gunshots could have been, I could have been packing the kitchen and I wouldn't have heard the gunshots. I could have been anywhere. Yeah. So the day after she completed her testimony, her half-sister, the last name of Morris, testifies. So we'll get back to that in a minute. Basically to say the same shit. Now, Roddy testifies he has no choice. Awesome. And he testifies. Putting that story in here. They said at times rambling for several minutes about details of his life in the past 10 years, trying to. Also trying to address the jury directly, which plenty of people do. That is very normal. They turn to the jury and they stare at him. It's always weird. Yeah. To me, it's more normal to talk to the person who asked you the question. Glance over at the jury as you're telling it. Glance back. You know, public speaking type shit. Yeah. Some people think you either have to lock your eyes on the lawyer or lock your eyes on the jury and be super weird and creepy either way. It's just not conversational at all. No, it's creepy. The Amber Heard thing. It's weird. So there's the question. Well, let me tell you what I did, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're not speaking to the person that just asked you the question. It was a tiny dog shit. Yeah. Yeah. So the judge admonishes Roddy for addressing jurors. Said don't address the jurors. Address the court. They're watching, which I'd never heard of before, by the way. But also allowed him a little room in his testimony to roam around a bit in terms of verbiage. And not answer direct questions and kind of tell a little more stories with his attorney, basically. Now, they said that he told jurors that he was, quote, trying to be honest about the events that led to the shooting deaths here. The district attorney noted several times during cross-examination that Roddy had lied in the past four years since the killings. He said, you want the jury to believe you're being honest today? And he said that you guys have it all wrong. I was asleep in the home when it happened. Patrick woke me up, asked if I saw Emma. Same story he gave. He was concerned. She was banging some neighbor guy. So I went back to sleep. I woke up, and I heard voices. And he said, I know one of the voices was my sister Mary. That's Jolene, who is a mute but can make noises, obviously. And they said, Mary. And he said, that's what we call her, Mary. I'm like, OK, that was confusing in court. And he said he saw the tug of war, and he saw Emma fall to the ground, and Patrick was holding the gun and shot her by accident. And he says, quote, he wasn't trying to hurt her. It was an accident. That's what it was. He was trying to help her up. He said he leaned down to check the signs. Then Jolene picks up the gun and starts going toward Patrick, shoots him three times. And he said they went back inside. They were both crying, him and Jolene. And he said that he thought he should call the police but was afraid because of his probation. He says, I didn't get permission to leave Texas. He said, I would have lost my son. So this is an unbelievable story. It's a wild story. Yeah. It's like a 90s always in trouble trying to do the right thing. I'm just a good guy. It's just bad things happen to me. I'm trying so hard. Everything is being the worst thing ever. He said after they put the bodies away there, they dragged Patrick in there. He said they went inside the house to wash up. He then put on a pot of coffee to help them calm down. Yeah. Yeah. Now, on cross-examination, they asked Roddy why Emma's head was facing the shed door when her body was found. And he said that Jolene must have turned her body around when they got into the shed. He said, I don't know. She must have turned her around. He said he doesn't remember because they carried her by the shoulders and pulled her in so her head would be toward the back, not toward the door. So he said, I don't remember. They said, well, you remember a lot of details about other things. Why don't you remember that exact detail? They also questioned why Patrick's body was lying face up when it should have been face down according to Childress' description of the way he was lying. He moved the body. Sure. He got no answer from that. They did get Childress to admit that he had not been honest about numerous things before and after the shooting. They included not telling probation officers he moved to Georgia and giving family members different versions of how the killings occurred. He said he had a reason for lying in each of those cases, but he is telling the truth now. Now I have no reason to lie when I'm on trial for murder. Now I'm honest. They questioned him extensively about whether he had. A sexual relationship with Emma. Now that is a huge air quotes, sexual relationship. That would be, are you raping your niece? Essentially. He vehemently denied the allegations vehemently said, absolutely not. He also talked about the fact that he'd been on probation for stolen property and his older son's incarceration for armed robbery. And they also grilled him about keeping his son out of school the entire time. Yeah. That Geis guy. We talked. He says that he visited with Jolene and her husband, Johnny Surak in Nova and Nebraska in 1991. They can move around a lot. My God. One morning when he and Jolene were alone, she began retelling the story of the murders. He said that quote, this is what she, this is her quote. When Emma was laying there, Pat saw it and kind of froze that someone shot her and that was it. And I said, who? But she said nothing. Then Emma was lying there. Pat saw it and he just kind of, uh, he just kind of froze his mind froze. He was like in shock, you know, shock. Someone had just shot her in the head. Um, so they, uh, defense counsel elicits from Geis that in another conversation in 94, Jolene told Geis in sign language, why Patrick, why Patrick and Emma had died by Roddy. He helped me for the money. So basically this guy's saying she intentionally brought her brother to the hospital. She brought her brother to Georgia to kill them, to collect the insurance money so she could go start a new life. Okay. That's his story. Um, the defense theorized that Jolene didn't kill Patrick in a moment of passion, but had been setting this up the whole time to either the defense says Roddy didn't help her, but she just, she brought him in to be, make him a patsy to blame him. And so it's crazy. Um, now Emma's friend also, it was a young woman. Uh, who's been friends with Emma in high school in country, a contradiction to Childress's protest stations at trial that he'd never had sexual contact with Emma. She testified she personally saw Childress touch Emma in a sexual manner and that days before the murder, she saw Childress enter Emma's bedroom naked while Emma lay crying on her bed naked and bleeding from her ear. What the fuck is this man doing to this poor child? We fuck her ear. What's he doing to her? Did he punch her? What's happening? She's got an injury. Uh, it's not, it's not going well. Why? It's crazy. I can't wait to find out what the fuck happened. This is so fucked up. So Jolene fucks up. Now Jolene goes to her sister who's testified right after Jolene. Apparently they find out that as soon as Jolene was done testifying, she went to her sister who their witnesses are sequestered and told her what happened. What all the questions were, what was going to happen, what she testified to and everything else, which you're not allowed to do. So then the sister came and testified and then they found that out and the defense made a big deal out of it. Obviously saying you can't do that. The judge ruled it harmless error at the time. Really? Okay. Um, yeah, she said that, um, it's crazy. Now, after all this, there's a defense pathologist who says that the former medical examiner didn't conduct the autopsy thorough. Enough that the prosecutors asked if there are ever times when the medical examiners cannot perform some types of tests, such as when the bodies are too badly decomposed or have been burned. And this guy said that it was possible. But in this case, this guy could have performed many more tests on the body. The original medical examiner is dead by now. So you can't ask him anything about it. The verdict comes in. This is confusing. But if I hear that, that, that teenager testified to that, I know exactly what happened now. Uh, he is. He was found guilty of two counts of murder and also theft by taking, which is actually a lower charge. They convicted him of then robbery. It's different. Now, sentencing comes around. The jury must choose between life in prison or death penalty. That's all they got to choose from. Um, Roddy asks that he, he gets up and talks and he says, I would ask that they give me a chance. Give me life. It's not just punishment for me. It's punishment for those people. And he points to his family. Um, Roddy's sons both testify, um, and all that kind of thing. Uh, Childress's aunt said that she would be willing to take his place. She said, if they've got to have a life, I'd freely give mine. Let Roddy out. That's not how that works. No, that's not how that works. It's not the civil war. You can't hire a replacement. This is crazy. The jury found as a statutory aggravating circumstance. The murder of Emma was committed while Roddy was engaged in the murder of Patrick, which makes it aggravated. Um, so the jury convicted him of, like I said, the less serious theft by, uh, taking, uh, you, sir, may fuck off death penalty for Emma, for Emma's murder, life sentence for the murder of Patrick consecutive to the death sentence, by the way, just in case, and can, and convicted of theft by taking, which he gets 12 months for as well. Also consecutive. Yeah. So he's got that. Now the jury said it was not an, an easy thing. They said the, the foreman said we voted six or seven times on the death, on the penalty. He said it wasn't clear cut. Others weren't sure. So they said that he also had been on another death penalty case, this juror where they convicted someone and sentenced him to death and that had been overturned. So he said that made him kind of feel like, why are we bothering? Basically, um, I got to be a juror on two death penalty and voted for death on both of them. Yeah. Um, he's. He's a professional death penalty juror at this point. Yeah. He said, it's a real hard decision. You don't have, or you don't have their lives in your hands, but in a sense you do. Um, yeah, no shit. 1996. They appeal on the grounds that Jolene talking to her sister screwed up the whole trial and the Georgia Supreme court agrees and reverses the convictions on Rodney. He will be kept on death row until they decide what they're doing with them. And they say, we're doing a fucking retrial. That was what we're doing with them. Abso-goddamn-lutely. There's a bunch of other appeal points as well, but we don't have time to go into them right now. He said they didn't give him a ballistics expert that he needed. And they said, ballistics expert wouldn't help you anyway, but whatever. 1998 is the retrial. Yeah. And they say, quote, Roddy got caught doing something wrong to Emma. Those two people died when he tried to cover it up. That's the prosecution's whole case. The prosecution says this is a case of a rush, a rush to judgment, a case of. shoddy investigation. So that's what this is. Jolene gave inconsistent and conflicting statements to the police and other people, which I don't know, maybe they're consistent. Just people are not as good at sign language as some other people. I'm not sure. She's deaf. I feel like there's going to be a lot of inconsistency. Some shit's going to get lost in the fold, right? Either way, they find him guilty of everything again. And this time you, sir, may fuck off life in prison without parole. So put them away forever. Now, the costs and this was a big deal at the newspapers were talking about the cost to the county, which is not a rich county. The first trial costs eighty four thousand eight hundred forty four dollars to the county. And the retrial costs two hundred seventeen thousand four hundred and forty dollars. They spent this this county spent. Three hundred something thousand dollars on this idiot. So like we could have just done the fucking because there were so many more experts when they're because you're going to death penalty. Like this would have cost a quarter of this if we just did life without parole the first time and not try to go for the death penalty, which costs so much more. Now, they're both Patrick and Emma are both buried at Palmetto Cemetery in Brunswick, Georgia. So there you go, everybody. That is Brunswick, Georgia. That's it. That's it. That's the case, babe. It's an hour. We're done. That's it. Can you believe it's how crazy is that? That's it. Life without Jolene. We don't know what the fuck her role in this is at all. We know she's got a shitload of insurance money and we know that deaf people have nothing to do with the case said that she tried to put a hit out on her other husband. So we don't know what happened. And we can't believe him because he's a he's convicted. I got so many theories. Oh, one. I say I got a theory that I've had. It was last night cooking. But I think I think she certainly. OK, can I say that? You can say what you certainly tried to get him to do it. And then he thought, well, he's dying anyway. I can rape this child. That's exactly right. I think that his job. Yeah, my opinion. No, I don't know anything. In my opinion, if I if this was a movie, you would imagine it would be she tried to get him there to knock off the husband. And he's like, well, while I'm here, I'll rape the daughter, too. And I'll just kill her and say I had to kill her. And that's that. And then she won't be able to tell anybody anything because I doubt that she said, come here and kill my child. I don't think that that didn't have it. Right. I think I was a. Yeah. I wasn't a casualty in this plan. I think he being a piece of shit that was willing to murder somebody for 50 grand or whatever. And then in the end of it, she was like, well, he killed he raped and killed my daughter. I'm not giving him anything. Well, I'm at also more. Maybe she's not killing her. They were. I mean, we don't know how what houses they were raised in. We don't even know if they're. Brother and sister or not. So they don't even know what they are. Who knows? And like I said, these are not things were accusations we're making. This is just a theory that maybe that's what happened. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. But either way, that's a fucking crazy story. If you agree. Wow. Like this story or like any of our stories, get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. Also, Netflix thumbs up helps a ton. So thank you for doing that. Crazy shit. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all the everything there. Tickets. Live shows. September 18th. Milwaukee. They're about sold out. September 19th. Minneapolis. Get them right now. October 3rd. Dallas. Get those. October 16th. San Jose. October 17th. Sacramento. Tarrytown's almost sold out, too, by the way. And Boston as well. 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