599: Differences in Spirituality, a Couple's Reading

Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host Jessica Lignato. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, an animal communicator, and I'm gonna give you your weekly horoscope and no bullshit, mystical advice for living your very best life. Okay, we are doing a love reading with C and D. Welcome to the podcast. What are we doing our reading about? Hello, hello, hello. I will just read the question that I sent in. Hi Jessica, my partner is a gorgeous mask presenting black queer woman who has never really self identified as Wu. She has experienced connections to ancestors, dream visions, and other Wu witchery, but I'm significantly more Wu. And a triple capricorn hoppa whose guilty pleasure is unsolicited advice. Both as partners and as persons we've been on such a wild ride these past three years and we both want to write out all the rest of our years together. I want to use astrology and energy work as technologies to reflect, regulate, and repair in our relationships, but I'm not quite sure how to get there while I'm still a recovering advice addict. Can you fellow Cap Daddy? Help me find a right relationship with advocating for my needs while not overstepping someone else's self determination. Can you help D find her own entry point into the more than human world, especially the ways it can help us grieve and rest? Okay, I'd like to point out how much I love this question and how you're like, I'm a recovering advice giver. I'm into Wu. Can you help my partner embrace Wu? Yep. It's pretty funny. It's good. I wasn't sure if you did that on purpose or not. So D, this is C's question. Is this also your question? Like are parts of it less your question or more, or is there something you would add to this question or subtract? Sure. So I'd say the beginning part on what C1 So work on is definitely C's and I am interested in some sort of entry point for me. What makes sense for me? I'm going to ask you to be slightly more clear. Are you saying like the unsolicited advice thing is that relevant to you? Not directly. I wouldn't say you don't feel like you're getting a lot of unsolicited advice in the relationship. I don't think in general I'm getting a lot of unsolicited advice now. Okay, great. Is that surprising to you C? I mean it's good news. It's something that I've been intentionally working on for a few years. So you know it's what I hope to hear, but I know it's also still the pattern I fall into. I see. Okay. And in terms of la wu, like astrology and other wu stuff, D, do you feel in any way like overwhelmed or pressed or anything by the way that C holds it or brings it into the relationship? No, I don't feel I don't feel that way at all. If anything, it's more I'm coming from a place of I know nothing. So pointing out different charts in things being in different houses or different rotations doesn't really mean a lot because I don't have really the context. And so appreciate it. So you appreciate it. You like it. Okay. So here's my question then because there's okay. So there's like ways that see I could give you a reading about the things you're asking about, but it doesn't sound necessarily like it's a relationship problem. Question mark. All right. Gets into the territory for me is I use some of these like wu approaches in my life and it'd be helpful to use them in our relationship. Anytime there's conflict or we need to regulate together or it'd be helpful to do it through a wu lens. And I'm not sure how to get there. Interesting. Okay. Let's pull up your charts. Wait a sec. You said you're a triple capricorn. Do you mean you three planets and capricorn? Yes. Okay. Triple refers to sun moon rising. Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're looking at both of your birth charts. We're not sharing places. And I've got your relationship pulled up. Your relationship chart pulled up. Now, D, you don't need to know what any of this means. And see, do you recharge like are you looking at the stuff in like gleaning data? I would say I still feel pretty new. So especially when it comes to looking at like all of the major aspects, it does still feel overwhelming. It is overwhelming for sure. Let me take the years and years and years of study. And so when you think about now I'm looking at your relationship chart, which is cast. I'm using composite charts and is cast for your location. I love this form of of relationship charts because it's literally the midpoint of sea sun and D sun is your composite sun. It's like where the two of you meet becomes its own chart and its own thing. So we're going to talk about that in a moment. But your hope, see, is to bring in more will in what way? Like how so? Yeah. I think there's like a specific class that like I take online about energy work, about boundaries and about inner journeying. Okay, so that's not astrology. No, no, that's much more energy work. Yeah. Then when it comes to astrology, I'd love to be able to talk a little bit more about the planets, but I'm newer to astrology. Right. So it's not something that I can speak to. I don't have access to the advice addiction there. Yeah. Because I'm not enough of an expert. Okay, that's great. And to be clear though, D does not seem, D, you don't seem like you're at all concerned about getting advice. Like it doesn't sound like you're feeling pressed about the level of advice that you get in your relationship. That is correct. I don't feel pressed. I think sometimes I am a little bit more sensitive about advice that I'm getting where we've butted heads because given advice and I've been like, I've got this and kept giving advice and I'm like, hey, I got this, but I feel like we've gotten a lot better at, you know, if there's advice, thank you very much, but I got this. And how long have the two of you been together? Go on three years. Yeah, and a week, I think. Okay, congratulations. That's awesome. Okay. So there's layers here. Now, let me ask you see in this class that you're taking, are you imbibing anything or is it more just like working with energy and boundaries? It's just working with energy and boundaries. Okay. Okay, great. Let's start with you see you have this beautiful sun, Neptune conjunction in Capricorn, right? And it does incline you to having access to kind of like earth-based spiritual practices that really help you to fill your cup. Yes. But boundaries, yeah, not your natural forte. And because you have this Mars in Aquarius, a very anoretic Aquarius sitting opposite to your ascendant, a way that you can kind of like sidestep boundaries is by being really assertive and really being like proactive, right? And I'm guessing that that's part of what you're referring to with like, you know, doing a lot of advice. You also have a Mercury Uranus conjunction. It means that your mind moves so fast that sometimes you're an interrupter because you're like, yeah, yeah, get where you're going. Let me tell you, let me finish a sentence for you. It was hard not to do it just then. Totally, totally. I respect you. I respect you. Yeah. And that can drive some people bananas, right? Like that, that doesn't work for everybody. Learning how to listen with your ears as well as with your energy because your energy is always listening. But with your ears is easier to do when you have the intention that you're not listening to what someone's going to say, you're listening to what someone is choosing to reveal to you. So I could have said any number of things. You knew what I was going to say, right? Like that's why you're like jumping at the bit to finish a sentence. But what I chose to say and the way I chose to say it revealed something about my personality, about how I'm connecting with you, about my mood. And if this was like not a reading, but like a personal dynamic, what people say and how they say it is where their agency exists. And being curious about how other people embody their agency is a really powerful practice for you. Because you're really intuitive. So you often know how people are going to. But if you cultivate more authentic curiosity that like requires your nervous system to kind of like hang out, maybe hover boarding above the present moment, but like hang out in the moment, your capacity is going to really expand. You're just like across the board. This is not specific to your relationship. It's just like who you are. Yes. Okay. D, your brain works super different than that. You have a T square to mercury. I'm not going to give you a lot of astro bubble. I would about to give you a lot of astro bubble. D I'm not doing that. I'm just going to tell you what I see. Does that sound better? Sure. Okay. Astro bubble is fun, but it's not necessary. Okay. The way that your chart works for you, you probably process information really emotionally, like the way your mind processes information, it's like it has to be at your pace and that pace is determined by where you're at emotionally. Absolutely. Yeah. And for you, your mind races, it's not that you're not like processing, processing, processing processing. It's that when other people kind of demand that you listen to them in a particular way or say something specific or have a particular opinion, there's a part of you that like kind of gets into like dragging your heels. I mean, it takes a force of nature to be a queer though if I may call you that who does not fuck with astrology. Am I right? Like that takes intention. Does it not? You have to be stubborn. I mean, a little bit or oblivious. Let's believe oblivious. Okay. Okay. Here's the thing about you being oblivious. I don't completely buy it. You're obsessive and intense. You're smart as hell and you're super emo. What I call you oblivious, not so much. I'd say you're stubborn. That yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's just call it. Let's just call it. So yes, let's do that. And so it's actually kind of interesting to me that see is like, oh, I'm concerned that it's like an issue. And you're like, oh, it's not an issue. And you're not saying you want to like dive into woo, woo, waters, but you're also not saying you don't want to. You're kind of like hanging out in the middle. Am I hearing that correctly? That is correct. Yes. Okay. This is what I find so fascinating about that. You are not tepid about anything. Am I wrong? I don't think you're wrong. Oh, I don't think I'm wrong either. So when you say, whatever, I don't really care. It could go either way. I find that to be sus. I'm using my finger as a chalk on a chalkboard that doesn't exist. Sus. Because you have really strong feelings and opinions about everything. Does this track for you as well see? Yes. Okay. Okay. And curious, D, dust thou really not care about the woo stuff or is that more just for this conversation you're being easy going because you're talking to an actual astrologer? I'm genuinely curious about what it is about. I think I haven't put importance into the time of learning more. And I think that's where my difference comes from. Yeah. I can't really have. I don't think in opinion because I or I can have an opinion, but it's not as strong as other things because I just don't know enough. Okay. Okay. That's great. Also, I'm genuinely surprised looking at your birth chart that you have the opinion that you can't have an opinion because you don't know a lot because when I look at your birth chart, I get the sense that you have opinions about everything that are very strong, even when you don't know a lot. Am I wrong about that? I don't think I don't think you're wrong. I don't have the time. Okay. Okay. I'm not trying to press. I'm just trying to like locate you, right? I'm trying to locate you. Sure. So I'm going to like just kind of pull back a second and I can, you know, I can drive the conversation anyway you want, but I'm going to just like create a little space and ask, what do the two of you as a team? What would be the most helpful for me to speak to if you have any questions and you don't have to, but if you do. I personally would like to know what our group chart means. I know I believe we're going to get to that. And how we can relate even better than we currently do. That's mine at least. Okay. And see. I mean, I think that the root of my question is just like a little bit about this push pull with trying to locate D and figure out where the Wu can come in. And it's hard to figure that out when I'm like, I don't know where the Wu is in you or where it isn't and you don't want it. So let me start with that. See. And then we're going to go to you D. So as I'm looking at your two individual birth charts for you. See the Wu is every fucking where. Am I right? Like whether we're talking about like energetic Wu or your capacity to perceive symbology and potentiality, you're kind of always pretty connected to Wu. And is that correct? Lately? Yes. Early in life? No. Okay. Well, that's, I mean, sure. Yeah. I mean, were you raised in a religious household? Not exactly, but it was a very strict household. Yeah. So I don't know what that was. I don't know what that was. I wouldn't say so. Yeah. So Mercury Uranus conjunction. Craves lots of relationships. Now I'm not talking about sexual relationships or romantic relationships. I'm like lots of friendships, lots of like running into people stuff. Like social connections. And a lot of times people with this aspect actually have a lot of friends who live out of state. So you're like on the phone all the time we're texting all the time. I do have a lot of long distance friends. long distance friends. I'm sure you do. Yeah, it's because being around people all the time is so taxing but you love being in connection with people. Yes. And what I'm kind of like building towards is this part of you is really important for you to share with people or with in an intimate way but that doesn't mean necessarily that it's important for you to share within your partnership because what you're wanting to do is resource yourself and you are. And then you're you're doing it and you're like, oh, D, hey, look, this is working for me come. Let me help you. But I don't know that it would, I mean, clearly it's not exactly working for D. And D's not like, oh, that's delicious. Let me eat that for dinner, right? Like it's not what's happening. Yes. Yeah. So I want to say to you see, or I guess I want to ask you, see, is it like a disappointment to think that D would be very different from you in this way or maybe not share this in the way that you would prefer? I think yeah, there there is some piece of me that's like, oh, well, that's a bummer. This is a useful tool. Like it'd be cool if we both knew how to use it. But I don't think that it's something that would feel heavy to hold. Yeah. I think that it would mean that I'm very interested in D's question about like where where is the communication in roads? Maybe in our composite chart or we're going to go to that in a second for sure. Okay. I'm just going to say this. Listen, energy work, boundary work, astrology. You're basically talking to my three favorite things in the whole entire universe and my life's work. So like I am a fan and I'm glad you're doing these things. And also I want to hold space for like not everybody's going to vibe with any of those things, let alone all of them. And as I look at these individual chart, somatic work, like locating emotions in body, practicing presence and accountability kind of through presence, those things are like they're the same kind of yes that you get through energy work and boundary work in the way that you're getting it. And it's not exactly how you would enter C, right? Like for you, the energy work is actually really necessary. But for D, the greatest entry point to a non-traumatic experience of spirituality is through somatic process. Does that track for you D? Yes. Yeah. Like doing a thing essentially with a thing. And noticing it in your body, like slowing down to notice where emotions are landing in your body. Like right now, you're kind of feeling stuff in your stomach, okay? Actually, I struggle with that a lot. I'm trying to get I'm actively working, you know, in therapy to get better at that because I am not very good at knowing that. And I think that's trauma based for me personally. True talks. True talks. Okay. And this is exactly why I say this is your entry point. This is the work for you to be able to slow down enough to notice what's happening inside of your body. And as you notice what's happening inside of your body to practice curiosity so that you can figure out what you're actually feeling emotionally. That's that looks like it's like the steps for you. And so like going into an energy work process is probably not going to like vibe for you because you're like, what am I working with here? What is energy? Where where is energy? So I think D's first step is actually like finding emotions in body, finding sensations in body because D when I was looking at you a moment ago, I saw like the side of your stomach. Like do you get do you notice sometimes your tummy kind of holds emotions? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I was just seeing it like in this side. I was picking it up on the left side but I get left and right wrong all the time. So I don't know if that's what it was. But like the side of your stomach it was kind of like not not like upset but kind of activated a little bit. And you're a double cancer rising in moon and cancer. So tummy is like the place for you. And so I want to just kind of like first of all validate that I'm just seeing that you all are super different in this regard. And then also I wanted before I move into the relationship chart say to you see I think new friends are really important for you. And you're going through see you have a little bit of an age gap and see you're right now going through one of your midlife transits or two of them. Girl you're going through two of them Pluto square Pluto Neptune square Neptune you're Uranus opposition stuff for a minute. But these transits are driving you to have a greater need for depth of connection and meaning. And I want to validate that those things are very real for you. And finding them in the relationship may be important but I also want to point you towards friendships because I actually think that's a really important part of your life not necessarily easy or always accessible because you're grown as adult and it's hard to make friends the older you get. But but I think it's important for me to name that. Okay now I'm going out of your relationship chart. Look at you too. The first thing I want to say is when I looked at your relationship chart I was like okay so were you friends first? No. Did you like me and then date? Yes. Okay because you have a stelium in the seventh house which is just like either you were best friends for a hundred years and then you got together or you met and you you hold like there's just like usually nothing in between with this kind of a chart. Was it you all? Yes. Yeah it was. Respect. Okay. And do you want human babies? No. Okay. Congratulations. I really think that's fun. It was a good reaction. I enjoyed it. Okay so many things to say about this chart but the first thing I want to say is you actually have really fun communication. Do you not? You like like talking to each other you're interested in a lot of things your your conversations are like back and forth and back and forth. It's not like one person's doing all the talking. Yes. Okay. Is that true? See? Yeah both of you. Okay great great great that said you have a son Mars conjunction. Mars is also conjunct Venus is conjunct Mercury. So do you fight? Yes. Okay good. You get annoyed with each other. You should fight and I'm not saying like you know come to blows. I'm saying it's really important for your relationship that you fight in a way that is sometimes funny, sometimes obnoxious and that you are like kind of routinely clearing the air because you are really different from each other and your differences are exciting and they're dynamic and they're interesting and they're annoying. And I don't have a negative association with that. I actually get worried when I see couples that don't fight because I'm like well how are you gonna fight? If you don't know how to fight how do you fight? And there is something else in your chart. It's called moon opposite Pluto that can incline the two of you as a team to not fight about the real ship to hold on to things which can lead to resentments and other similar problems. And so the habit of arguing and just like letting things come to the surface. I want to just say I know a lot of people say like oh no that's not great. Fucking fabulous. Fucking fabulous. Learning how to fight kindly and to apologize when you're a jerk are really powerful skills in general and specifically in this relationship. That said when you see express some concern about communication I can't help but wonder if that concern springs from talking about resentments or jealousies or that kind of a thing. I think definitely there's like a specific relationship rupture that like we're in process repairing. Same where? Is that like another partner? No just between me and Dee there was like a moment of dishonesty and then as we were trying to figure out how to repair reconnect and build back that was like when I felt the most like wow it would be really helpful if we had like a shared loop practice. I see what you're saying see okay I'm gonna come. And we have also already talked a lot about how can we fight in a way that is almost like a game or like there's something playful or about it so that it's not too heavy which I can get. Yeah so I'd love to hear more about that. I've got I've got lots of things to say. So one is when you are fighting and either you know you're being ridiculous but you can't fucking help it or you feel that the other person's being ridiculous but you are still fucking annoyed and you're like engaging come up with nicknames and call them to each other something stupid. Now you have to choose your own nickname or you have to consent to the nickname otherwise it's gonna feel like fuel on fire but it has to be something stupid like there's a portlandia episode about cacao is there say for it you know that stupid you know that so like it can can be a lot of fun. like cacao, you basically want to create a cacao and you want to use that cacao in your relationship when you're fighting. So that it's basically like a way of communicating. I'm aware that something's amiss here. Sometimes what's happening is there's essentially, you're just like in a mode. Sometimes what's happening to your point C is that you're both energetically really sensitive. And so sometimes one of you or both of you will get slammed by energy from someone else or from something. It could be from the world. And then because it's like it's energy. It's not like, you know, a cat walked into the house and shit on your bed, right? It's not like a thing happened. So you start fighting with each other because you're the only people there. You're the only the material thing happening kind of thing, you know. And so sometimes it's energy. In that case, C, in 2026, it's unrealistic that D's going to name it and clear it. It is possible that through the practice of you doing you that D sees that it works and then finds her own way to practice it. But this is like a path you're already on. And it's not like a starting point in a path in this path. Do you know what I mean by how it's not a starting point? It's kind of at the end. It's a little advanced, not to be like hierarchical about it because it's not a hierarchical thing. So the first thing is you're going to throw in a cacao. You can come up with a few different like code word code name things. And fuck with that. The other thing that I'm seeing, okay, this relationship you said you're dealing with a relationship issue with somebody else. It is with ourselves. And I'm not sure if you talked about us being polyamorous. No, hasn't come up yet. Okay. We got to learn how to you know fight that's eventually going to become something that is kind of prickly and things like that. And definitely has been in the past here and there. But I think the bulk of it right now is between two of us. So it has something to do with other like navigating other people or other people's energies or other relationships questioner. No, no, just within ours. Okay. Okay. So it's nothing to do with polyamorous just context. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I find the two of you to be very vague on this topic. So I'm going to press a little more to say like give me an example of what we're fighting about or the most recent fight. Yeah. Well, the thing that I was thinking of was that there was a little bit of a struggle with being fully honest about recreational drug use. And it felt like there was some there was a big addiction moment. And there was some dishonesty that came along with it. So D was using and it felt like it was related to old addictions or it just felt like it was addictive. It was addictive. I mean, I've had substance abuse issues in the past that have just been related to stress, trauma, PTSD, different things like that. But this is just this situation in particular. So this this situation was like separate. It wasn't the same as that old addiction stuff. No. Okay. And D you were not forthcoming and see it was a problem. Yes, but D was eventually forthcoming about it. Like I found out not because I like discovered anything, but because D did like come and ask for help at some point and say like, Hey, I need you to know this. And at what point how long had it been? Almost a year. Oh, damn. Okay. That's intense. And did you fight or are you more questioning like how to communicate about this? We did fight about it. I don't know if we like successfully were able to fight about it in ways that like really provided the kind of relief that I have experienced in my family system that like fighting can provide. Yeah. Okay. So listen, here's the thing. This moon Pluto opposition in your relationship chart. You both have abandoned issues. Yeah. Yes. Okay. That was the quickest. You both said yes in this whole conversation. Okay. Here's the thing about lying or omitting. The problem is let's say I'm a third in this relationship and I am lying to the two of you. And I'm doing something else with someone else, whatever the fuck. Then what I'm doing is I am not allowing you to have access to me or this part of my life. It's an abandonment. That's the trouble. And listen, there's a lot of troubles with lying and struggling with addiction stuff, fucking sucks and is hard, but I'm just focusing on the part that you're asking about. The communication part, right? Is that when one of you gets activated around feeling abandoned, this is the biggest pain point in your relationship. It is where you are the least resilient as a teen. So fighting about it would not help. I mean, it's necessary to an extent, but it wouldn't help. Let's be real. It's hard to know how to respond in difficult situations, especially in regards to state violence. When we don't have control over a situation and your and other people's safety is at risk. Sometimes the best thing you can do is bear witness. While there are risks and legitimate criticisms about recording crisis situations, it can be really good to be prepared to document what's happening on the ground in your experience, especially when it's scary. When Renee Good was shot by ICE agents, the agent's body can footage told a very different story than the recordings of nearby observers. There are several mobile apps available to help in such situations. One you might want to check out is cop watch from the National Justice Project. There's also a shortcut available for iPhone users called police, which is voice activated and instantly starts recording while also texting pre-selected contacts. Research what trusted technologies work best for you and experiment with using them before you actually need to. School boards and lawmakers around the country are banning and challenging books at a pace not seen since the 1980s. The American Library Association tracked 729 challenges to library, school, and university materials and services in 2021. And librarians have even been threatened with criminal charges and jail time in some places in this country for lending out challenged books. You can contact your representatives about this issue by emailing, calling, or tweeting at them, and above all else by banned and challenged books. Support the important work of authors who are being banned or challenged. And in the process, support independent bookstores. My favorite bookstore, Marcus Books, is the oldest independent black owned bookstore in the country and has a banned and challenged book list on their website. You can go to Marcusbooks.com to see this list and to shop or visit whatever independent bookstore that you love. Support banned and challenged books and authors today. So D, is it under control whatever that means at this time? Yes. Okay. And C, do you believe that to be true? Yes. Okay. C, do you believe that if this happens again, that D would tell you about it swiftly? Yes. Do you believe that? Yes. Okay. Okay. C, do you resent that D either didn't tell you sooner or that it happened at all? Yes. There are times when I feel resentment. There are times when it feels more like deep worry that like I was not co-creating a safe container. So you feel it was your kind of like fault or responsibility why D didn't tell you? Not that far. But I do think that like there are maybe ways in which I can be like giving too much advice and not- You're heavy-handed. You're heavy-handed. We can't. Yes. So heavy. So heavy. Did you agree with that? Yes. Okay. But D, do you also agree? That you probably wouldn't have told C anyways because you weren't super stoked on your own behavior? That is 100% correct. Correct. C, take no responsibility. Listen, you're heavy-handed. You've got to deal with that. That's real. You can be judgmental. Also a true story. Okay. However, D, something I see about you and addiction in general is you love being secretive about it. You don't. You feel ashamed. You fucking hate it. But you love it. It's like part of it for you. There's always a secrecy element to it for you. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. See, I need you to hear that. I hear that. Okay. Good. And that's a concern. That's a good flag for you because that means if it happens [BLANK_AUDIO] again, there's no reason to really expect that D is going to be like, hey, by the way, I started using X again. I didn't mean this drug X. I meant insert substance. Okay. Were there high risk behaviors that you pursued when you were using the substance D? No, nothing that would put C in the substance itself. Okay. Other than your own health, right? Yeah. Okay. And are you in any kind of program like recovery program? Yes. Okay. Great. See, do you feel good about that? I don't feel like we've found something that I feel super confident in and I think that that's a reflection on what the world has to offer in terms of especially like recovery. Fair, fair, fair. Here's the thing. Okay. D, this is the first time in our conversation where I feel, oh, you've put up your walls energetically, you're like, no, no, no, does that make sense to you at all? It does make sense. This is not a criticism. We're just naming shit. Okay. You are really protective of it's not about the substance use because the addiction was a substance. Yeah. You're protective of your right to self-destruct or your right to do shit that you deen you want to do in a moment. Yes. And the risk of see or anyone else that you love a respect or otherwise telling you, you can't, you shouldn't or you should only do it in one kind of way actually raises your fucking hackles. Is that correct? Okay. See, is this news to you or do you? No. No, I mean, this, I really appreciate you naming it this clearly, but this resonates with what I felt. Yeah. And so what this means, and I want to be clear, I don't know what the substance is and I don't know what the context is and I don't think that's relevant for this conversation. But what this means is that D, you're really in like wet paint moment with your relationship to addiction. Like you can't actually make any promises because you're not actually, you're not in a place where you're like feeling a sense of certainty around not only wanting to change your relationship to those substances, but about life itself, like being in this meat suit, being being in this life, like how you live this fucking life is very intense and personal. But that is what I'm seeing. Does that track? Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. And the truth is see that is an abandonment of you. That's how do you how do you trust somebody who's like, yeah, I'm in, I'm out. I don't know, life is fucked. What? Like how do you feel safe in that? And the answer is whether or not you name it this way or you think of it this way, see? I think that on a on a meaningful level, part of why you're like, I want D to like learn these energetic practices and like find these tools is because they are life affirming for you. And there's something really deep for D that is like, I don't fucking want to affirm life. And that's scary. That's a scary thing to have somebody you're in love with and when it's been the whole of your life with to feel like. Yes. Yeah. And D are you are you are you hearing this? Yes. I'm going to press you again. Are you feeling it? I need to sit and think I haven't allowed myself to I've been compartmentalizing a little bit to pay attention. That's fair. That's fair. And also that's your process, right? Like that's not just in this moment. This is like, this is like your it's kind of your move. I do D want you to know that for all that C is saying like, Oh, I can be heavy handed or I can be advice giving and all this stuff. C just is fucking like obsessed with you and loves you and like wants you to be well. And there is a level on which you want nothing less. And then there's another level on which that's a lot to live up to for you. And sometimes it does feel like pressure for you. And it's not like you're sitting around thinking, Well, this feels like pressure. But you get this rebellious defensive self-sabotage shit come up. Yeah. Yeah. And so see, I want to affirm that you cannot fix this for D. You can be curious. You can ask questions. You can ask if D wants advice and then offer it. But this is like deep shit, right? And D. Yeah. The next decade of your life because you're right now hold 35. 35. Yeah. Okay. By your mid 40s, you need to have this stuff handled as possible. Okay. Because it's going to get really this part of your nature is going to be quite challenged. And so I want to invite you to really prioritize being curious about exploring without judgment or punishment. This part of you that's like, I don't even fucking know about life. Like, what is the point? Like, I don't know if that this nihilism essentially, I don't know if that's the right word, but that's what I'm using right now. To explore it and to work on being emotionally present within it so that you can be honest with yourself about the choices you want to make and hopefully make self loving choices. This feels really important. And you know, coming back to this question, see that you're asking about communication, you're in a bind. Because if you pressed as hard as I pressed in this conversation, you would probably be shedding D down. Does that feel correct? D? Yes. Yeah. And so you're not bananas. Or probably like, okay, well, I'm not going to press that hard because it's a really deep and important conversation. And it's one that you can ask D to have, but D can only have within their capacity. And D, yes, expanding your capacity on this topic is really important for you and for your relationship. Because see, you are going through this loss. It is what it is. And you can grieve and feel sad about it, but ultimately you have a choice to make, which is around trust. This really isn't communication as much as trust. And D did break your trust for a year. And you're allowed to be hurt and you're allowed to be mad. I may be D. I'm sorry, I said that. And your energy system was like, whoa, no, don't be your don't be mad. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like that's okay. I understand you have a dynamic of C you're trying to protect D because you're concerned for D. Am I right about that? Yeah. And that's loving and good. And there has to be boundaries inside of that. And so you have your own spiritual practice for navigating those boundaries. But part of that is trusting D to prioritize doing the work so that she can meet you in the middle. Because you can't you can't do that part. The meeting in the middle. Because D moved away from the middle. You didn't. Okay. Does that make sense what I'm saying? It feels right in my body. But my brain hasn't quite caught up yet. I can feel that you're like there's like something off. So I'm going to explain it. And then D. I'm going to ask you how you feel. So pay attention. Okay. With your with your feels pay attention with your feels. See what I'm talking about is D was doing something for a year and you didn't know and it was a big part of D's life. And it took a lot of care and intention and planning to obscure it from you. Yeah. Yes. Okay. That's lying. That'd be trail. That's abandonment. That sucks. And you it's okay D because I'm not saying you're a bad person at all. I'm saying fucking marriage. Am I right? You know, I mean with a person. You know, what are you going to do? Honoring, loving, supporting and caring for D. Cannot and should not come at the expense of naming reality and allowing yourself to have your lived experience. See. I think I'm used to fighting really hard for my lived experience. And so I feel like a lot of my work has been trying to pull that back. Yeah. And I maybe I pulled a little bit too far. So first of all, I think that's like you're you're right about you're 40-ish. Yeah. Okay. 41. So you're right at that age where you're like, ah fuck, the pendulum swung too far. This is like early 40 shit. This is midlife crisis shit. And also, let me go back to your individual birth chart. See. Yes, you have a Mars opposition to your ascending a Saturn opposition to your mid-aven you have a Mercury conjunction to your Uranus in other words. Yeah, you come on hot. You come on strong. You got you got you got yours You know what I mean, but you also have a Sun Neptune conjunction and when you love you love devotional and so in your retelling of the story to yourself notice how frequently you center these experience feelings and needs over your own. Yeah, and so this is the thing that's really hard for people like us. I'm going to include myself in this who are just like, we're like loud, we're aggressive, we've got a lot, you know, we're the first to jump in the pool in a lot of ways that doesn't mean that you haven't abandoned yourself in other ways. It doesn't mean that you hold yourself at the center and that Neptune sun conjunction is that part of you that feels like I love these so much and I see that D is going through something so real. I can't possibly center myself because that would be in some ways contradictory to what D needs and I love D and I want to be there for D and therefore I want to just focus on things from these perspective and that's what gets you in trouble. That's where the boundaries are needed and this is where you know you may want to communicate about this and there's certainly a value in communicating about this. But you're looking for this like balance point like this center and what happened both for D with these life and then in your relationship when you found out that you had missed out this very important thing and that you were lied to for a year. The center is not a good it's not like an ease full balanced place the center is restless and hurt and really vulnerable for both of you. He didn't do this to hurt you did it to do this to fuck with you like this was not about you and that doesn't mean that it also wasn't completely about you and it didn't fuck with you and it didn't hurt you these things can be true at once and being able to hold that messiness is really fucking hard. And D you have a lot of support with the addiction stuff or a little support with the addiction stuff a little support with the addiction stuff but I feel like I'm doing good work with what I have right now okay and you're not an a person. There's some other things that are close to that okay so like peer based somewhat social okay and that works for you I need to find something new it's not working like it was when I. First started this work several months ago so now is the time to find something that's more like peer to peer that's a little different from that particular dynamic honestly I'm really glad to hear you say that because I do see. You are not controlling in the way that most people think of controlling when they hear the word controlling you're controlling of yourself and you're so pleasant about it nobody knows that you're being controlling most of the time sometimes everybody knows but like nobody knows in this context like you just get hold into yourself yeah yeah listen I thought to fucking problems with a obviously I don't need to tell you that but the thing that I like about a is that it's a structure and there's so much account. And there's so much accountability and it's like a long term process and it's free of course so I'm just going to throw that in the mix like a vote a vote for anything that will give you those things because I think that you can be accountable to steps and a process even when you don't want to be accountable to yourself or to a person. Yeah yeah and I would agree with that yeah and see you're allowed to have boundaries and needs around this have you express them to do at all. Yes there were several things that I felt like I would need like therapy some type of addiction support just tools that I felt like we this should be a sign we need to get proactive about in our relationship. So there was some of that but the addiction support has been the hardest thing to negotiate boundaries around. I think that there's a lot that's really damaging about how we think and talk about addiction and it yeah it is really hard to find something other than a a. Yeah it is and what's your problem with a a D. I do smart recovery I years ago AA but smart recovery is a non denomination like it's secular it's without God there are AA meetings that are secular they they have like atheist AA and all like I said but yeah that's fair. I'm going to advise you see. To cultivate a list of questions you know like do you want to be sober what is your definition of sober how do you feel about X what are you doing about why like just a list of questions and then you and D can make an agreement about when you're going to talk right because D it sounds like you're really good at being like I don't want to talk about it now or yes I can talk about it now is that correct yeah that's correct. And then see no more than three questions in a conversation ideally you're going to do one question in a conversation who I put enough me it was me okay see you. Okay this will only work if D you commit to the process of being able to do this once a week or if you know the conversation you had on Monday wasn't that wasn't that intense for the two of you then you can do it twice a week. The reason why I'm encouraging this in this way is because see your capacity fucking endless am I right yeah you can have a 12 hour reading and be like couldn't we talk about this but like D is clear like okay that's fucking a lot let's let's stop here so you've really different capacities in this way because what the two of you are communicating about is a really deep struggle that D has with herself. You have to move at the pace of D not at your own expense the pace of D might be talk about it once a month if we're being honest are my right D yeah so I'm not talking about like completely at the pace of D but it's kind of requiring D to step outside of capacity like push capacity but it's not shoving your capacity down these throughout either. You're not going to get satisfactory conversations if you've already been trying to talk about it more frequently you already know this right you're not getting more satisfactory conversations because D is not able to like really meet you in the conversation and what you want a substance more than words yes yes so related to that D my hope is that you do prioritize getting you know more of that addiction related support and also. Hopefully your therapy includes somatic process and you may talk to your shrink and be like hey what somatics how can we bring more awareness of like what's happening in my body as I'm. We're already working on it fabulous fucking fabulous the things you're going through see are really hard. Your midlife crisis transits specifically I'm referring to and Pluto's coming for your moon real soon set six degrees it's swearing itself Neptune's going itself. And so the intensity of your emotions is very real and part of what you're being challenged to do is to figure out how to navigate your intensity without either going all the way on or all the way off so some of this pattern. Of what's happening with you indeed probably triggers something from your own childhood. And you know exactly what it is okay great this is Pluto square Pluto. And what you want to remember is that you have agency choice not just around what you say what you ask for but also around how you process your emotions and your spirituality is a part of that. But part of it for you is also just like giving yourself the fucking grace to have really intense emotions Pluto moon square emotions really intense emotions and some of that you do in private and some of that you do in private and then you wish you could share it but you actually tend to do really intense emotions in private a. Yes giving yourself space for that and then challenging yourself to like figure out what you need not from other people but what you need and then you can figure out what you need from other people after you figure out what you need for yourself. And I will say one more thing here abandonment and coercion are your biggest problems. A feeling of like I can't I can't allow for like playfulness and fun to occur because I can't trust you is a risk in your relationship. If there's a sense of either abandonment or resentments. Does that track for the two of you. Yeah yeah. And so. I want to be really clear. This is not a good guy bad guy thing. It's not like one person did something wrong and the other person did something right. This is how it is to be in a serious relationship with a human, right? Shit happens. Life happens. And it's how honest you can be with yourself and then with your partner that really determines where you go from here. So I want to just shut my vogue in mouth for a second and check in and see have we addressed this stuff that's important to you of any kind of remaining questions? It really hit me in the chest and it felt very resonant when you said that D is protective of her right to self-destruct. And I think like I feel that and that just feels like such a hard thing to navigate how to move within that. Yeah it is. D are you able to hear that or are you like pass capacity? No I can I can hear that I don't know how to explain it but it is a truth as well. Yeah it is a truth. You know everybody lies about life okay every fucking lies. For a lot of us choosing to be alive never happens. For a lot of us we only learn how to choose how to be alive at a later age than one would expect. And I don't think we talk about that enough. I really just don't and that doesn't mean that you're you know try hard and work hard on being a person and all that kind of stuff but for some of us especially if you've like a trauma history it's really fucking hard to choose to be alive. And this is really at crux what D I think this is about for you. Being here in this meat suit this this life this material this mortal coil as they say and that is bigger than you see it's so much bigger than you and also it's part of what you love about D is their intensity and complexity and the same part of D that's just as fucking ambiguous at times about being here is the same part that has such a profound capacity for going there in life. It's like paradoxical right it's like these capacity to have real experiences and do the work and they're drive to get the fuck out of here at any cost it comes from the same place. Yeah yeah and see I want to just advise you to have the feelings you have about it and to figure out what questions you want us to do about it and if you figure out you have some needs to communicate those because being in relationship with somebody else means accepting them and that doesn't mean you consent to everything but you have to accept before you can decide whether or not you consent. Yeah and that's really scary to you because you don't want to consider anything that you would that could potentially lead you to not consenting because if we're being honest D this is not a place you're very flexible or collaborative. Yes yeah true story in 2026 okay so I don't know if that exactly speaks to your question C it does it does it does okay and was there anything else that was left kind of hanging at some point you mentioned that I'm trying to connect to D through my Neptune yeah and that it might be where we are connected is much more Saturn that's kind of what I was saying and kind of not what I was saying I was saying when I look at what you have in common it's Saturn you have your Saturn's in common which is why you live well together in many ways and like you are really good at like life planning shit together right because you connect on Saturn you you have a copicetic relationship to the idea of responsibility and accountability and family and aging and all this kind of shit the system even you know but you are a Sun Neptune baby and that means you are devotional in the way you love think about it you're in your early 40s how many times in your romantic life historically have you thought you were doing one thing but then when you look back at the relationship you were like oh I was centering their feelings and their needs and their experience over my own it's a lot a lot of the fucking time that's because you're a Sun Neptune baby and so it's not that you're connecting with D through Neptune it's that you are Neptune okay and so you have this devotional nature there's so much beauty in that and it's such a soft place for D to land doesn't need to change slash also devoting yourself to someone else at your own expense is not devotion self-sacrifice you don't want to be a fucking martyr you want to be a lover and that takes boundaries and you're already engaged in the process of boundaries I just don't know if you're engaged in this moment enough with validating your own emotions because some of the emotions you have in your relationship are like fucked up and they've got nowhere to go and so you in your Capricorn wisdom are like well if there's nothing I can do about it then I just won't feel it it's Capricorn wisdom it's terrible it's terrible logic but it makes sense to us right if there's nothing to do about it then why feel it and the reason why is because you feel your feelings because of your fucking feelings that's the that's the move and you've got to trust D to be able to stay present while you feel your fucking feelings and the truth is yeah D doesn't want to do that and D would rather that you keep it together and like do what you're doing if I'm being honest I mean I can see this as clear as day you chose to be in a relationship D with somebody who treats you with a lot of respect and part of that I think you have known is that you have to choose to be here in new ways and show up in this relationship in new ways yeah I would definitely say that yeah and so on the good days that's fucking awesome and you have like a sweet home and everyone's jealous of your core relationship and on the shitty days see needs you to evolve in ways that are genuinely hard for you and that you have ambiguity about whether or not you even want to fucking do but when you chose this relationship you chose a life and you actually really like this life I mean life is fucked up and I'm not trying to tell you love life but like you do love this life I do yeah and that puts you in the fucked up position of having to do emotional psychological spiritual work on yourself that is fucking hard that's where you are and it's okay that you have ambiguity about it it's okay that you partially don't want to do the work and go in and out of being motivated and also you have choices to make and your choices have consequences they're both true right now do you want to hold space do you have any questions yeah I just had one question which is how I can come further to the center that's a great question good job multiple points okay now that we're collecting points we're not collecting points but I just wanted to affirm you in a very such earning way okay okay and see I want you to affirm whether or not I'm gonna nail this or not okay meeting in the center means in part you reporting to see without prompting where you're at in your thinking and feeling with your relationship to addiction stuff am I right about that see yes so not needing prompting sharing that's not your fucking happy place am I right D you are okay so we started with something heavy a piece of advice for that put a little alarm in your phone download a song or a sound that is like soothing to you an alarm in your phone to once a week so you can like schedule it for Tuesdays or whatever the fact to find something to say about where you're at and that something could be I haven't been able to really think about it this week but I wanted to let you know where I was at you're allowed to do that does that seem doable yes okay great the other thing is stick to your multiple therapy so your substance stuff and your one-on-one therapy without prompting or maintenance from C does that also see feel like an important middle-legged thing yes very yes very yes okay did you hear that very yes you already knew all this shit right like this is you already know this yeah yeah okay cool and the third thing is Practice noticing. When you get overwhelmed, by seize feelings and you shut down and see if you can practice just being present for seize feelings without having to apologize or feel terrible or like any of it but instead to just hold make it as make yourself a safe place for sea to emote. Does that track sea as a need? Yes. Okay. D. Does that make sense as an instruction? Yes. Okay. Those three things are exceptionally hard and they're also pretty simple and so if you can turn them into behavioral habits, you'll be able to do it. That's actually a really great thing for you D. You're really good at developing habits. You're slow but good at it, right? So if you make the commitment to setting the alarm and then you know doing the fucking thing and setting the alarm and doing the thing, you might hate it and you might forget and you might like fuck off of it or whatever here and there but over time like over the course of many, many months, it will become a habit for you and you're good with habits and so that is like an untapped superpower you have. I'm going to say untapped because I'm assuming it's untapped because of your age. It might be lightly tapped lightly tapped fabulous. So apply it to challenging relationship dynamics and even to dealing with addiction stuff. In particular, engaging with the emotions that are underpinning addictive behaviors. Great habits that we're in it. You're in it. That's exactly what you're doing with your shawing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. This will work for you. You've got a real solid moon, set, or an opposition. You're really good at habits and then you you break them every once in a while. You completely fuck off and then you come back. Every time you come back, you're a little stronger. That's that moon, set, or an opposition. That's what it does. Okay. Did I answer that question D? Yes. Thank you. I just my pleasure. We've gotten to a lot of really good stuff and D you named your capacity a while ago and what we have done here today is see what I don't want you to do with D. But I've done it because we're doing a reading, right? So what I want to say is D will name her capacity because you do it in really in conversation and in processing, right? When you're talking about shit. Now D sometimes you do it to control the situation so that you don't get triggered so that you don't have to like stay in something hard. True. Sometimes yes. Sometimes yes. See you knew that. Yeah. Okay. So in those moments name it and maybe instead of saying like I feel like you're actually just slamming on the brakes so that you don't have to talk about this. You can say when you know that's happening, can I ask you to just stay with this for a little longer? Because sometimes D can stay with it longer. And then sometimes what's more important D is that you say I'm at my capacity. I'm going to promise you that we're going to talk about it again and then give C a time and day. Can you do that? Is that in your nature? Yeah. Okay. That's my nature, but I can do it. But you can do it. Okay. Great. Great. Because C that would really help you. If like if D's like I can't talk about it anymore. If if she was also like, but tomorrow after dinner, let's sit down and talk about it. Yes. That would help. Okay. Great. And then what you can do in the space in between those two conversations, C is notice how much of your thinking returns to D, what D's thinking, what D's feeling, what D's going to say, what D needs and reign your shit in and focus on you. What are you thinking? What are you needing? What are you feeling? Because you can't, you, it doesn't matter how insightful you are. I speak as an astrologer and a psychic. As insightful as you want to be, D is who D is who D is who D is and you being aware doesn't help D actually be aware about yourself. That helps you, which by osmosis helps D in a way that trying to like get ahead of D figured out doesn't help either of you actually. It's like an old coping mechanism from your childhood. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't want to recreate your childhood with in this partnership. Another view. And right now you're both at crossroads with kind of unconscious behaviors that emulate childhood shit. Right? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, dealing, breaking childhood patterns, essentially breaking ancestral patterns is the most painful stuff because it's not just your psychology. It's this feeling of inevitability. And if I change, and if I'm different, then I'll be alone, and I'll be like out in the universe alone. It's just like feeling that humans have, not everybody names it that way, but that tends to be what happens. And so a lot of what the two of you are going through separately is like existential, like very spiritual, very existential, call it what you will. And so the more space you can hold for your own emotions and for your partner to have emotions that you don't have to fix or do something about, the more space there will be in this relationship for the two of you to not play the role of the other's parent, the other's oppressor, the other's savior. You can really like meet in the middle and co-create something that you want to grow old in together. Yeah. Kind of like the fucking move, right? Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay, good. Good. Okay, just one more thing. Let me get off the call. Y'all are in the same house. Is your instinct to spend time alone for a minute or to go into the room and like talk about it? For me right now, it would be to go into the room and talk about it. How about you, D? I can talk about it. That's exactly what I thought we were going to talk about. And that is why I'm bringing it up. I was not going to hold away, but I do feel you want to over my body wants to. I don't want to. Yes. Yes. Okay. That's great. That's great. And I'll say this. You are you end your body. Yeah. Kind of a package. Yeah. So you want to and there's a part of you that's like open not to, but you want to. And I want you don't have to like separate out parts of yourself to justify some of your feelings, D for whatever it's worth. Different people are different. And so I wonder D if I can give you another piece of homework and see this is kind of homework for you too. D you love music? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to give you this homework. We get off the call. Three songs in headphones. Very fucking loud. If you want to move your your bones, you know what I mean? Like if you want to dance in your room alone, fabulous. Do something where you are shaking your system and like being sensory overwhelm in a positive, self-directive way. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Okay. See, you are going to give the space to listen to two, three songs. Now, D, do this in good faith. I'm not talking about 10 minute songs. Okay. Don't play this fucking shit here. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. Exactly what I was thinking. Okay. Don't do that. So like we're saying this is like 20, 30 minutes max, 20, 30 minutes max, right? See, do you feel like you can hold for that long? Yes. Especially because you're being told this is the limit, right? You're being given a parameter. Okay. So in that time, see, do something life-affirming maybe write in a journal about how you feel about what came up for you. Do you have like any gardening projects? Are you a gardener? Yes. I've neglected them lately. Okay. Put your hands in some fucking dirt, water some plants, that kind of thing. That could really work for you. You could also listen to music. You don't need it, but D does need it in order to meet you. So D, once you have shaken those bones and listened to music, meet C. Don't tolerate the conversation. Meet C. That's your assignment. Y'all have to, this is not a perfectionist assignment, but like that's that's the assignment. And if this works, then you might be able to use this as a template of like, okay, there was an intense experience. Maybe D, you need your three songs and just shake your bones before the two of you, like shift gears or talk about it again or whatever. Okay. Okay. All right, we did it. We did it. Oh my God. Thank you so much, Jessica. So much. This was wonderful. And I feel like we're gonna come back to this and listen to it and learn from it again and again. Yay. Thank you.