77. Did their Shoes End her Career? Abby vs Puma

What is up folks, welcome back to another episode of lifting, running, and living with your favorite people, podcasters, Kelly. Hello. Hey, and JK, that's me for those of you wondering what in the world is going on. We have a 321 countdown that the recording platform does on the screen, and it stayed on that one for a hot, like four seconds. I'm pretty sure. Oh, not on my side. Oh, on my side, it did. Okay, that's what's going on. Okay, that's a me problem. All right, well, here we go. Welcome to episode 77, folks. So we are kicking things off per the usual with updates, and then we'll talk about a recent story where an athlete is suing their sponsors, essentially, claiming that their footwear caused damage to their feet, and potentially ruins their career. So we're going to chat about that, but before getting into that, like I said, per the usual, let's do some updates. So Kelly, what's been going on in your world? Well, since we last spoke, I went to Chicago and came back. I wish my trip was longer. I obviously was texting you throughout the trip. So yeah, you know, it's a place to be. I know I really liked Chicago. It was a lot of fun. I went to the bean four times, with the three days. I saw your Instagram post. We were like, photos of Chicago, which is essentially just four different shots of four different days of the bean. Yeah, that's hilarious. That was hilarious. Well, it was, so we stayed right near the office. It's like downtown Chicago. It's like a mile east of the bean. OK. It's just giving context. So like the first day after I arrived, I was going for a run, but I've never been to Chicago, so I didn't know anything. So I was like, let me just run to the bean along the lakefront path, because that looks like a nice, like, yeah, destination. And it's like a little more than two and a half miles if you go that way. And then I could just run directly back to the hotel and get like four miles. And so then day two, I was like, I don't know where else to go. Let me go back to the bean. Sure. Did you take a different route or the same way? I took the same route, but I didn't out and back. So I made it a little longer, because we had like a later start on day two. And then day three, most people had either gone back or were flying back that morning. So I didn't have to go into the office. So I ran a little farther down. Is it Millennium Park? The name? OK. Yeah, so I went to like that statue that's south of the bean, ran around a bin, then ran back on the lakefront. I basically just ran along the lakefront the whole time, though, because it's easy. I knew I wouldn't get lost. Yeah, there's a lot of people. It's not scary and intimidating, you know, safety-wise. So. OK. But yeah. Did you get out and about in Chicago? I found a spoon, so I went to some tourist shops. OK. Oh, you found it. I was sitting here thinking like, spoon, is that an ice cream place? No, this spoon. No, this spoon. I forgot, you collect spoons. Yes. I forgot about that. Because I'm like, I don't know like a tenth even of what's available in Chicago, even having work there for two years, so. Yeah. That's fair. It's a big city. A massive. And you can go to certain neighborhoods and never like downtown, like for people that like live in and/or work in Chicago, like, there's so many other neighborhoods like Logan Square and Ukrainian Village and Wicker Park. I mean, there's so many other places to hang out. Yeah. Oh, so. Yeah. I know. It's hard for longer because it was like, I got in Wednesday night. I landed at, well, we landed early and apparently this is normal for our hair, but then we taxied for 45 minutes. So then we arrived late. That's funny. Yeah. So I got to the hotel like after 8 p.m., so I'm not doing anything, obviously. Yeah. And then day two, we were in the office and then we went as a group to spin the ping-pong bar until like 9 p.m. or so. So that was a whole day. And then Wednesday, we were in the office and then I walked around. I went back to the bean with my coworker because she hadn't been and then we went to tourist shops. Yeah. You're like, let me take you to my spa. Yeah. I'll say, I know all about the bean, I'll take you right there. That's hilarious. Oh my gosh. And then I went to dinner with some other people that weren't leaving yet. And then it was Thursday. And my flight was at 1 p.m., so. Did you go for a run? You ran for a run that morning? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, I got a maximize sea level runs. Yeah. When you're there. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed Chicago. It's just a solid vibe like that spring going into summer and then summer. Ooh. Summer time. Chicago. Nothing better. It was surprised at the temperatures because they were mild. Like they were mild, but the low temps didn't get low. Yeah. Which is very different. It's midwest. Yeah, it's very different from Denver. Like, if it's high, like, for example, today, I think it's almost 70 outside. But the low was like 38. So I'm packing. And I'm like, when I'm running in the morning, it's going to be cold. And I wake up and it's already 60. And I'm like, wait. Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah. And I'm so the humidity is different than here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All in all. Great trip to Chicago. It's one of our main offices. So I'll be back at some point. We'll cool. Yeah. Try to, you know, let me know more than, you know, seven minutes out. It's all good. It's all good. It has been pure. Fantastic. Good to know. Yeah. So that's good. My only other update is I'm taking a break from Runa for at least a month. Okay. Yeah. My heel is just like heel Achilles, whatever. It's just, it's getting better. It's just slow and it's annoying trying to follow a plan when it's like, my need to cut this short and like do a lot of alterations that the app doesn't allow you to do. I mean, you can't like, you can cut things short, but it's not going to like update my next week. Gotcha. Okay. So it doesn't make adjustments based on what you adjusted. I think it will, if you make the same adjustments for long enough, like if you run under the mileage for long enough, it'll be like, Hey, maybe we stop trying to get this one mileage. But I don't want it to like adjust down and then I get back. And then I have to wait like three weeks for it to just back up, you know, yeah, it's just mentally I'm annoyed with it right now. So yeah, I can understand that. I've had clients before who have come to me like as a client, not specifically because they didn't know how to put a decent workout together a couple of them. I remember just expressed frustration with constantly making adjustments and it was just like you said, it became this big mental game because they just felt like they were constantly adjusting. So they started telling themselves the story that they were doing less and not doing enough or that they were so far, they were making so many adjustments that they were like so far off the intention of whatever program they were following, as opposed to if we just build the program with the limitations and restrictions that they may have had based on either injury or for some of them, it was equipment, which was kind of wild too, because it would be something. Oh, that makes sense. All gym stuff, like not all gyms, all machines, let me say it that way. So it was like all machines. So they were equipped to pardon the pun, they were equipped to change it to like dumbbell based, but they just got really annoyed with that and the program itself wasn't built so that they could easily just toggle to yeah, from a machine to whatever, because that's how I build like my group programs, the person on the other end. We use the train heroic platform so they can just, they just hit swap and it shows them like multiple options to swap and they swap it with whatever. So yeah, definitely just want to co-sign what you said, I have definitely heard that from other folks, which is just tired of, it's just a mental thing, like just making it just meant after adjustment. Yeah, and the most annoying thing is like, my weekday runs I don't have to adjust much because they're shorter, but then long runs, it's very week by week. Sometimes I'll get like four miles in and it'll start to kind of bother me and then I'll play it by year from there, um, and it's like, slowly I can go farther without. It's starting to hurt. But yeah, Rhonda's just like, oh, you ran seven miles last week eight and a half next week. I don't want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And I could probably switch the plan to like be some Twitter running maintenance. But at that point, like I can just do it myself. You know, right. That makes sense. Yeah. So we'll see. Um, and the strength training they have was not enough to make me want to pay for like just that. Yeah. Fair enough. I mean, you've given it how long have you been using it now? I think I started in like January. Okay. So like, well, I did. No, I must have been before that, because I did like 12 or 16 weeks for the March race. Okay. So I must have started late December, I think. Yeah. So it's been, yeah, it's been at least at least like a quarter. Yeah, it's been three or four months. And I'll go back to it. It's just, yeah. Okay. I don't know. Anyway, it's in. Okay. Oh, one more update on the Chicago trip. Uh-huh. I did take my brick with me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. How'd that go? Um, I took it with me and I unbricked the night I got there because that was the day of the Boston marathon. Mm-hmm. So a lot of updates are on Instagram. So I wanted to check that. But then Tuesday, I re-briaked it when I went to work. And then I thought about unbricking it after. But we didn't have much time in between work and spin. And then I was out late. So I was like, I don't need to unbrick this. And then on Wednesday, when I did have time, I was like, well, I'm not gonna like post anything while I'm still here for safety reasons. So I was like, let me, I just kept it bricked until Thursday when I was leaving, then I unbricked it for the plane ride. So, okay, it was really nice. I must say. Yeah, I'm taking it into heavy consideration after your, um, after your feedback. And now I'm getting the ads for that and bloom like the, the card. Oh, blue. It's essentially very similar. Yeah, if you look it up, it's a, it's a, like a credit card size thing. So you can put it in your pocket and whatnot. Um, so they're, yeah, and even some of their ads or some of the ads that I've seen, I think that they're, they're native ads, not like an influencer based. Yeah, they'll show the brick and then the bloom next to each other. And a couple of the selling points, one of the sound main things is, like, it's not big and clunky and whatever. It's something that can fit in your pocket. Because to me, the natural, um, objection at first, which other people had commented was, well, that's having it be a card that can fit in my pocket is just, that's too easy. Right. I need to physically get up and, and go somewhere. And the company had responded something along the lines of, yeah, totally get where you're coming from. And also still studies will show that if you just create some sort of a pause, like some friction, some additional action that you have to do, even as simple as I have to pull this card out in order to, yeah, I don't know what they call it, unbloom, like bloom your card. I don't know, whatever they call it, um, that that, that also can provide enough friction to, to serve the purpose. So I don't know. We'll see. I, I'm leaning pretty heavily towards the brick, though. Yeah. Yeah. The brick is nice. I think it creates more of a barrier. Like, if I just had a card, I, I totally agree. It would be so much easier. Because even like, I told you last time, it's magnetic. So it's just on our fridge. Yeah. So even if I'm on the couch and I'm like, Oh, I want to look at Instagram, like, do I want to get up though? Yeah. Versus like, if, I don't know if I'd have the card, if I was on the couch, to be honest, either, but if you, if I traveled pretty regularly, I could see that being a thing. So, Oh, no, we'll see. I'm, I'm considering tying it to like something that I need to accomplish in order to buy the device. If that makes sense, like, it would be an actual, yeah, and TBD. We'll see. All right. Anything else? No, what's up with you, Nolan? You're in, uh, just came back from Alabama this past, uh, yes, past what day did I come back, uh, Thursday. Yeah. I came back on Thursday. So I was down there for about a week, I want to say. Yeah. So drove down there on a Friday and then came back on a Thursday. Yeah. So just about a week, uh, spent the majority of the time at my parents' house, just doing stuff around the house and just taking, taking some time, uh, little, little vacation isk vacation, vacation ish side. And then, um, they went for a little bit. It was the last, her last final she had taken it that morning. Oh, yeah. So we met up or I went down there. Um, she has friends that she still want, she's still down there for a little bit longer and then she'll be back in a few, a few days, I think. Um, but what was I going to say? We went to brunch. So I will say, uh, what was the place called another broken egg. I think it's what it was called, which it looks like it's a chain ish down in Alabama, but I think it's like family-owned chain ish because there were maybe like five locations total or something like that. Uh, but it's called another broken egg and, uh, 10 out of 10, absolutely fantastic food. So if you do get a chance to hit up one of those spots, um, yeah, really solid. I had the pancakes. It was like pancakes with this blueberry goat cheese, something thing, the bacon was solid, like, not like, you know, like Oscar Meyer. Shout out Oscar Meyer like I eat it. But, you know, if you go to brunch, like, you want like bacon, bacon, you know, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, this was legit. So yeah, all in all, all in all, really solid time made the usual stop at buckies, you know, um, okay. Wait, tell me about buckies because we went to a wedding this past weekend and we drove past the one buckies in Colorado. We didn't stop, but one of my friends and Ty were both like buckies. And I was like, what is, what is it about it? Uh, so essentially, um, this could, this could end up being an entire episode of really. Um, so one, uh, typically they, they tend to be pretty easy in an easy out or at least efficient, easy and easy out as far as like location wise. Yes. Um, get gas pumps galore. I think they have like 100 gas pumps or something like that crazy. Um, now granted, I had no size might be different in some of them. Yeah. The one I go to in Alabama, it's in Athens, Alabama. So, um, that one's, um, I think got the hundred pumps. They typically have a, um, a path to be able to walk dogs around like the outer. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, the gas prices are typically the cheapest that you will find in that area, wherever it is. Like I've never, I have yet to, and this would be, however many years that I've been driving down to Alabama that Bucky says been there because it hasn't always been there. I don't think, um, my parents moved down there like many, many years ago, but for as many times as I've been down there, I haven't found anywhere in the general area that beats their gas prices ever, which is scary that right now their 399 was the cheapest that I found. Oh, which is kind of crazy. So anyways, you've got that. They don't, so semi trucks are not a thing in their parking lot. That doesn't happen there. Oh. So yeah. So there's no semi's. Like there are sometimes larger, you know, are using stuff but no semi's. So no trucks, no trucks. Okay. Um, you go inside, they have fresh brisket all the time. Oh, so they have brisket. They make, um, homemade like fudge and whatnot, but there's a lot of like peanuts and stuff like that. So they mess with that. Um, they have snacks on snacks on snacks. Okay. Every, every, like, every version of snack that you want, they have it. It's crazy. Like the snacks, the snack selection is like old school candy store meets like the best grocery store snack selection plus the best gas station ever. It's, it's wild. Oh, all the ICs. They have like six IC flavors. Like at everything is there. And of course they have like merchandise. Yeah. So even I have like buckies hat on, like they just have, they have just one of those spots. And then last, but certainly not least their bathrooms are immaculately clean. Oh. And they have like, I don't know, the one in Alabama is like 15 stalls. I want to say and that's the meant. Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. That's one side. They probably have like 30 stalls. Wow. And that's not counting also like the urinals and men's. Yeah. And they're always clean and they pay their people pretty well. I want to say it was like 18 bucks an hour for cashier. And then you get like premiums over the weekend, like $2 on Friday, $3 on Saturday, $4 on Sunday, something like that because they haven't done anything that's up. So yeah, it's one of those places I was, this will be, yeah, this will be my Bama update and then I'll talk about my training. But I was talking to somebody, maybe my dad, I was talking to him about it because he was like, it's just weird how it's just so such a draw. And I'm like, well, if you think about what I will call your average family that's on a road trip. So you've got respectfully mom, dad and kid, right? Okay. So whether you have mom and mom, dad and dad, I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm just saying, like just think you're stereotypical because the guy, yeah, we won't get into the guy who's the owner. He's a bit problematic. Oh, oh, no. Yeah, not a lie. Okay. It's bit, not a lie. But if you think about a road trip, you've got, so stereotypically, dad wants like great gas prices. So check, mom wants a place where you can use a clean restroom. She does not want a disgusting gas station restroom. Yeah, correct. Because I'll use a bathroom anywhere. I really couldn't care less. Yeah. Also, let's talk mechanics like I don't have to sit down, so I'm fine. Yeah. Unless you have to side note. But so they check that. They have that. And kids snacks and toys. Yeah. That's what they always want to get snacks and toys. You check all three of those things in one location. And then you pile all the other stuff in there. So it basically checks the box for the road trip. Like if you stopped there, everybody could grab something. Now the one thing that I will say is if somebody is easily overstimulated, like I had a client, I remember I had a client who was like, I could not get out of the car because it's just so much going on. Yeah. Because it's so busy. That's fair. And when you walk in the cash years, they're like, welcome to buckies. Oh my God. And then when they're making the brisket, whenever it comes out and it's like fresh brisket, then they all have this chant where they're like fresh biscuit on the board or something like that. So it's this whole, it's a whole movement. All right. Okay. So that's the damage rep. And that's buckies. Does that help? Yeah. It does help. Yeah. It's worth stopping by. It's just a lot going on in there. Yeah. It's just not close. Yeah. That's fair. And then real quick update from a training perspective. All right. So when I when I go to Alabama, specifically in the Birmingham area, I go to a place called Armor Gym. This gym is still without a doubt the most well equipped gym that I've ever visited before because they have they got my favorite the pendulum squat. So I whenever I'm down there and have the ability to, I just do like full body workouts every day. So I can like get get with everything. And the program that I follow released a new training block the week that I was in Alabama. So if I was sticking to my exact program, then I would have started the new training block. I decided to put that off by one week so that I could really just take advantage of having so much different equipment that I don't normally get access to. So did that for that week. When I got back, I had all intentions to start the new training program. And what I have been doing with the training program that I do follow is it's got different options where you can either do a like two, three or four day lower upper split or total body split, like full body split for two, three or four days. I decided I typically I'd say since I started doing this program, I've been doing the four day total body piece for the most part four days total body. Yeah. One day is definitely like two days are more upper body biased and two days are more lower body biased, but they cover just about everything. So that's what I intended to do. However, I loaded, I mistakenly loaded the lower upper split. Okay. Don't ask. So when I downloaded it, because I downloaded it, and then I put it into train heroic, because it doesn't use train heroic. Gotcha. So I download the program and then I enter it in. And what I actually do, like full 98% transparency. I'm not saying full transparency anymore because nobody tells the everything. Okay. So 98% transparency. What I do is I take the program and then there's certain things that I'll look at. Like for example, this this month, they're there's for the squat pattern. It's like barbell back squat or barbell front squat. There's dumbbell options too. But I was like I want to do something just very different. So I decided to use the Hatfield squat instead. Like I I will switch up my variations. There's more pressing than I usually want to do in a program. So I'll usually swap out movements. So I I as opposed to what like how you were talking about with a runner. Yeah, I have to make these adjustments. Now I take that program and I try to make try maintain like the the intention of the way it's program because I really like the program creators themselves. But also like I just know. I know what I what I like. Yeah. Quite honestly. Really what I what I don't really deviate too much from is the warm up and the recovery work. Oh yeah. Deviate from that because I think one of them has like a pretty solid like PT background or something like that. So those are things I pay attention to. But anyways, so I mistakenly started the lower upper split the four day lower body upper body split instead of the four day total body split. So since I'm already like halfway through the week, I was like, yeah, that's just how we're going to. So I'm going to try the lower upper for the rest of this week. Okay. And just see how see how things go because my my shoulder that had like taken forever to just feel like mostly normal has done very, very well following a full body split as opposed to having a a true like upper body day. Yeah. So that's the part that I'm kind of like. Let's see. Let's see where we're at. But you know how did I did upper body this morning and so far so good. Yeah. So we shall see. So that's what's going on right now. Following lower lower upper split at least for this week, I don't know, may or may not switch it to the full body next week. We'll see. I don't know. I'm also itching to do like a glute specialization, but I'm going to leave that alone for now. Yeah, it's not necessary. I'm going to leave that alone for right now. I have enough to do. So yeah, those are my updates. Nice. Cool. All right. You want to get into, get into Z topic? Yeah. Okay. So we're going to talk about Abby Steiner is doing Puma and Mercedes one track team claiming their footwear caused major damage to her feet that ultimately threatens her career. And she is a sprinter. I can't remember. I really should know her default events. I want to say she's like a 200 meter sprinter, like short prints. So there is a lot more force through your feet in sprinting events. But yeah, she's basically claiming that the carbon fiber plates and nitrophone combos basically changed how she ran like her gate and caused her to have a lot of injuries and surgeries and she's taking us back from running now. So and she's a pro. So it matters more than us normies. I did. I'm going to throw a lob in here real fast because I did. Yeah. Okay, let me throw this in here. Okay, because I did a little talk to Tisha real quick. What did Tisha say? Okay, 26 year old US sprinter. Yeah. Four time NCAA champion. Yeah. And two time world champion gold medalist in the relay. Which relay? Just his relay, bro. I asked for quick stuff. I asked for quick context. Major deal got signed with Puma in 2022 reportedly around $2 million. So consider a rising star and then injuries started shortly after she turned pro. Yeah. So lawsuit. Yeah, here's it. I'll do the timeline and then yeah, give us the timeline. Okay. Okay. So first, as Kelly mentioned, I feel like I'm mansplaining and that is not what I'm trying to do. But we didn't. Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, the lawsuit filed in April 2026. So just recently in Massachusetts against Puma and Mercedes, the F1 team, which is the design partner defective and unsafe as Kelly stated, specifically the carbon plate and the night your phone designs. Just like Kelly said, she altered foot ankle. But blah blah blah. So led to higher injury risk, bone stress and foot injuries. So she's saying that she's claiming basically that the shoe changed her running form. Yeah, which as opposed to we might as well just get into I thought this was a known thing about super shoes. Have we let me hit the timeline. Let me let me hit the timeline. Yeah, I think you did talk about that. I definitely have a daughter. Okay, 2022. She signs with Puma and has immediate success. 2023 to 2025. She has multiple foot injuries and at least three different surgeries within that two to three year time frame. Her last major competition is in 2024, which was the Olympic trials. And in 2025 is when she steps away from the sport and then she files the lawsuit in 2026. So her claims are that her injuries are permanent and that she will not be able to compete in the elite at the elite level anymore. So she's going for medical costs, lost career earnings and reduced quality of life. She is essentially saying she's essentially claiming this product ended my career. Yeah. Yeah. So there, there we go. Oh, and then one of the questions are super shoes slash spikes pushing past safe limits. So talk about super shoes. Maybe people don't know what super shoes are. Yeah. And for for clarity, I don't know much about super spikes. I've never run in them because as a non pro, like one, if I run track races, which I've run one. So I'm not really going to buy spikes. I just wear my road super shoes. But super shoes are shoes that usually have more responsive foam. So that's the nitro foam technology. So they have a higher stack height. And they have a carbon fiber plate in them that helps with energy return. It's like a kind of like a spring. I was going to say more bounce to the outs. More bounce to the outs. It helps propel you forward. And it does increase your running economy, usually by slightly altering your gate to make it more efficient. So like in talking to my PT and friend Sarah, she since super shoes have become big. She's seen a bit of a shift in the types of injuries. Some people get more lower like some people get more upper like depending on like how super shoes have altered your gate. Okay. So like and they allow you to train more recover better. So if you're like having a slightly altered gate plus compounding that with more training, especially I'm assuming at the pro level, could just like be a perfect recipe for something bad. But yeah, I've heard of people who have heard their Achilles with super shoes. I had one friend. She doesn't know if it's from the super shoes, but she full on broker ankle in a race, which is pretty crazy. And then some people have injuries move up towards like the knee and the hip. So like for me, I have had usually lower limb stuff is what I struggle with because my normal gate is more like on my toes to begin with. And then the super shoes have I've had some more knee stuff. Because it kind of just like makes my foot roll better I guess is the best way to say it. And it just moves some of the impact up towards my knees versus down at my ankles. Because with the super shoes, you do need like less ankle mobility because it's just kind of doing the spraying for you. So yeah, it depends like where you're starting and then what it alters. But I find it interesting because if I thought that maybe it's just recency bias, it feels well-known now that super shoes can cause increased risk of injury just because it like the combination of could change your gate. And you feel like you can handle more training. Yeah, I'm wondering if overuse becomes more of an issue also like overuse of those well, of those shoes because would you be training in those shoes very regularly also? Or would these primarily be? So I don't know about pro sprinters. Uh-huh. Which is why I think the Herbie and sprinter could be a key part of this because I know their training sessions are very different than distance sessions. But like I wear my super shoes for track Wednesday. So if I'm doing a long run that has like a workout in the middle and races. So it's like max twice a week out of my six runs a week on average. Yeah. But I don't know if for sprinting if you're wearing super spikes more regularly because their sessions, you know, they're not like from my understanding of sprint training, which is minimal. From what I've seen on the YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. Like the sessions I see they're never going easy. You know what I mean? Like they're running pretty all out, not quite the distance that they're racing. Right. But like if you're like I watch some 400 meter runners and they'll do like 100, 150, 200, 300 reps, but they're like all out. Yeah. And I think they do only whip out spikes for key sessions, not like every session. But if she's wearing spikes, super spikes on the key sessions and on the not key sessions, if she's wearing like maybe they're super shoes that could be comparable instead of like trainers. I don't know. I just think it's interesting to be suing for this when I feel like there's something, a detail we don't know that she thinks that she has a winning case. You know, because I think part of the details that we have them, I don't think you can win this case because like it's everyone's choice what shoe they wear to run granted if you have a sponsor. It's a little different. But Puma doesn't only make super shoes, you know. Every brand has not super shoes as well as super shoes. Yeah. I yeah, as you mentioned, like there's there must be essentially like something maybe that she's aware of that we don't know where there's a detail that we don't know that hasn't been released quite yet because I I look to see and when I say look to see, I also typed in the chat GPT, if during this time frame, as she was as her injuries were happening and the escalating foot issues, as it says, was this anything that was brought up during those time frames or was she still wrapping Puma at the time and it doesn't seem like there's any sort of articles that can be found. It primarily was always framed as like I'm grinding through this, trying to do everything I can to get healthy. And it wasn't it was basically like framed like a typical like athlete injury. And then it was only after that that she came to the conclusion that it had to do with the technology of the shoe. And I can't I don't remember off the top where I saw this. However, I am I'm fairly certain that kind of related to your point about like they're they're potentially some additional information that we haven't seen yet. I want to say that I had read something that said that her part of her claim is that they were aware. Yes. That this shoe could cause could increase risk of injury like they were aware of this. So it does like I do now you're going like down the road that I like to go down, you know, when you remember how I've talked about like how when something happens, I don't really care about the thing that happened. I'm always I always like to end up reading the book or listening to the podcast series about like the foundation of what the whole thing was like when they had the California wildfires. I read this book like I will sit and wait for like the book to because then because that's why I respect journalists so much. Yeah, because they're taking their time to truly develop like, okay, what were the conditions that allowed this thing to happen and turns out like with the California wildfires. Yeah, it was this old basically rusty hook that was literally like a hundred years old that broke fell into the brush. that brush then catches fire. But at the base of it, the company had stopped doing climbing the poles or climbing the structure to do their yearly inspections because of cost-saving measures. Well, why were they trying to save costs? Because from a compensation standpoint, they are compensated based on safety things. They're compensated based on new things, so they're not compensated for maintaining the capital assets. So it was this whole, so I think very much along the same lines with something like this, like this is where I turn into a conspiracy theory, where like I bet that she, okay, so she either has direct evidence either through like other athletes, like she's aware of other athletes who, you know, they've got medical records or something like that that can show that their gates slowly changed, blah, blah, blah, and also that they were reporting this to Puma. And they didn't do anything. She either has direct evidence or she's taking a bet and that during the discovery phase, if they can't settle, then they go into discovery and Puma has to turn over all of their research. Because it's the same as I see it very similar to like when those Boeing planes were like the 737 or whatever. Yeah, when they were falling apart. When they were falling, yeah. And it turns out that the executives knew the entire time that that particular thing, like on the tail of the plane, they knew that they didn't have that in the training manual or that they didn't train people. And so they were trying to settle, but if you don't, if you settle, then there's no discovery. So I, this is going to be really interesting. Because to your point, she's got to have, she either has proof or she's lobbing a bet. And it's basically like she's forcing them to, I don't know, though, the plaintiff is usually who has the burden of, yeah, or she's just going rogue, scorched earth. You know, like I can't professionally run anymore. So I'm going to try to take you down. Yeah, yeah, because something had her start to connect the dots. Yeah, I, uh, in the, the New York Times has an article and that is where it did say, I can't read it anymore because now it's pay-walled, but I think I have. Yeah, because I clicked on it twice. So it's like, you can't read this. It did say that they knew that it could increase risk of injury, etc, etc. It also said something about an example of another athlete that got injured, but that was due to like the carbon plate cracking and failing, which I think is completely different than normal use of the super shoes. You know, okay. Like from what I read, her shoes weren't like breaking. You know, they were, unless granted, this is a, it was a short article. They could believe me out these. Yeah. But if it's like normal use of a shoe, I feel like that's harder. Yeah, here's a snippet. Steiner claims that the defendants were aware of defects that made the products unsafe, unreasonably dangerous, defective, and capable of causing injury and harm to consumers during ordinary anticipated and foreseeable uses. And she alleged that they did not report the defects or injuries to the United States Consumer Products Safety Commission. According to the complaint, the defendants allegedly were aware or had a reason to be aware that the products with CFP and/or NF technology altered the biomechanics of runners or the, or the manner in which the stresses of running impacted their bodies caused bone stress injuries, increase the likelihood of foot injuries and caused a regular strain on the runners feet. That's, okay, because that's an interesting part that I don't think is worded by mistake where they said that they failed to notify the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission. Like they were aware of the defects and they didn't report those defects. But is it where I'm hung up is like a shoe making you run differently isn't a defect. Depending on how my body and my feet are, like if I go try to run in Nike shoes that don't fit my feet, well, it's going to alter my gate. But then they don't have to tell me that, you know, like it's not a defect of the shoe. It's not a defect of the shoe. Okay, so this is not the best parallel. I'm thinking though, yeah, I hear what you're saying as far as defect, I'm almost thinking like side effect, like reported side effect. Yeah, do you have to report side effects for just a product on the market, though, that's not like a medication. Who knows? Like that. Now you get into consumer protection law. Right. But I think it's, I mean, that seems like where she's going. Yeah, this becomes, this is becoming, yeah, this is becoming so much more interesting because it's all, it, it seems like when folks do get busted and when, when, let me say not folks, when corporations do end up taking the hit, it's typically, and even like politicians, I think about, like it's typically not for like that specific thing. It's some sort of procedural thing that they didn't follow. So for example, this is such a wild reach. Okay. This is a wild reach and I know we're wrapping up here. So wild reach, but we've, we've talked long enough, you know how I randomly pull things. Yeah. So Eric Swalwell, right? Yeah. California. Okay. Follow me first. Okay. Welcome to my brain. Okay. So clearly degenerate creep, sexual assault, the whole nine, right? Or whatever he's into. Yeah. That's, that's the headline. Yeah. He potentially could get a, get away with that. With like, hey, there's not evidence of this evidence of that. How be ever what could really have him cooked is, hey, these trips that you were on, who paid for those? So improper use of campaign funds is actually where they can get him. Yeah. Okay. Because he, if he's saying like these relationships, although immoral, were consensual. Yeah. It's like, yeah, they were consensual, but you were, so you bought drinks, who paid for that? Yeah. It's like alcohol and get invested for not paying taxes as opposed to murdering people. Right. So I, again, you see where I'm kind of going, like that. I think that's kind of a part of where it's like, maybe she's, maybe she can't necessarily prove, they're not as concerned about her proving that their shoes injured her and ended her career. They're, they may be like, she, this could be very smart. They may be more concerned about, wait, hold up. Did we not dot our eyes and yes, our T's when it came to these particular things, because if she's including in her claim, like, hey, there were issues and you never reported those issues as part of what's required by consumer protection law. Yeah. She might have them there. That totally makes sense. Like as far as a strategy, I'm saying. So really like the, I mean, I'm not saying it's like a cover as far as the whole like you and my career, I can never run again sort of thing. That's a very, to me, that's a very real thing. I just think that your argument can become very bolstered when you're dealing with a company that doesn't want to open the books. Yeah, that could be the real issue. I still still find it's very odd. Like, it's not like Puma's the only one with super shoes. It's not like he's website is like, FYI, these might alter your gain, cause injuries. Keep an eye out to see if that changes. I know. Yeah, like no, no, they're doing it right now. Watch, watch, because it's like I, but why would this be the line? What do you mean? We mean, like if it's, so for example, if it's a known thing, so say it's like a known thing, for example, when minimal shoes came out, I'm sure lots of people got injured because they're not used to running and like nothing, but they didn't have to be like, by the way, changing your footwear when you're not used to it, my calls injuries. You also have to tell people not to put their fingers inside of a shredder. Yeah, but template like running shoe websites. I don't think I've ever seen a warning of any kind. Yeah, I don't disagree with you on that. What I'm saying is you may see that going fun. word. Yeah, I'm just curious like why is this the thing? This this lawsuit like this issue this incident you mean why are super shoes the thing that we now need to be telling people if they make certain decisions they might increase their risk of injury. Because she's making it the issue. Yeah, but that's my broader question like why this? I'm not following. I'm not following. I'm saying like she it it just takes one it takes one person with enough juice. Yeah, who knows they this this definitely could be something that other people have brought up before and brought even tried to sue them. But to have somebody in house who's been the face a face of your brand for quite some time who's high profile and who's not just some average person. Because note she also noted this lawsuit it also specifically references every day consumers. Yeah, causing injury and harm to consumers during ordinary anticipated and foreseeable uses. So it's almost like laying the foundation to be like hey like it's already the the pre rebuttal if Puma was what Puma was to say well that's because you run faster and harder than the average person. So they already like hit that shot. They already fired that shot ahead of time. I think you like you're right when you like with the or I I agree like I totally see where you're coming from and also this is very from my perspective with no legal background. I think this is very very very well worded strategically very well worded because it puts the ball in Puma's court to essentially say that what she's saying is wrong and she's using herself as like hey this happened to me and also I'm just telling you that it it's not because it's me it's because the products inherently aren't are going to cause could cause issues in regular every day casual runners. Yeah. Yeah, it's smart. Yeah, she she lobbed a pretty hard grenade on this one. Yeah, because she's claiming they knew about they knew about this and didn't report it that it could be a potential issue. Sounds like just like drug makers or yeah like drug companies with side effects and things like that. Yeah, I feel like drugs are very different. They they are they are now I think that something that helps me is to remember that now is definitely nowhere near how things used to be like we know the world is so different now with how we view things like like we marijuana. I think like drugs are fundamentally different than a shoe I choose to put on my own foot. I I agree and also though in this particular case you're talking about a product that alters your physical activity and so if right now even to your point if right now the company is not making is not being proactive in making people aware that this will alter your running so it's at your it's it's your responsibility to pay attention to if this is altering your running to the point of you getting an injury. It's basically like this you know forcing the surgeon general warning on like cigarettes like that wasn't a thing. Yeah. So I think I don't know this could be breaking new ground. It's like you ever seen those cell phone cases that have then I tell you did I tell you about that like the cell phone case that I bought my mom or I bought her yeah she got a new phone so I set up a whole bunch of cases for store pickup for her and Alabama. No. So it's like yeah just take so basically she bought a new phone and I was like yeah I'll get you a bunch of cases pick them up from the store whichever one you don't once you don't want just take them back to the store just so she had options and there was one of them that was label like a particular way and she was like oh I'm glad that I read that label because my dad has the DePacemaker defibrillator he has something installed. Yeah the thing inside. Yeah and so if he were to put that in his shirt pocket there's a concern for that. There's a really really yeah there's a really high level D1 basketball coach I can't remember it's either at Nebraska or Iowa State I think Nebraska who a kid was running towards him with a cell phone like celebrating after the thing and he almost like he like shoved the kid it was on national TV and he was like I have a I might be confusing it but I think he's it was like I have a pacemaker like I literally could die yeah no so yeah I'm looking at Puma's website now. Okay let's see I will be interested I would not be surprised if this if this changes some of the disclaimers that you know put in there so this could be the thing that changes changes that in the industry where you do put that in there. Are you seeing anything? No because like I don't you shoes don't do that they don't do what injure people they don't have disclaimers oh yeah yeah I agree yeah that's yeah we're saying the yeah we're saying the same thing I I agree with you and I would not be surprised if this forces things to change I just don't think I agree with it with with with which part I mean I hate that we live in a society we have to tell people that hot liquid is hot and that kind of thing you know oh you go back to the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit if anybody PS if anybody really wants to go down the rabbit hole with that there's a podcast called swindled and the guy he he disguises his voice it's very like crazy but he disguises his voice and he gives like deep dives into particular things like he did that he did the McDonald's like monopoly money scandal he's done like where there was like a state fair in the stage like fell apart or there was like a lightning strike he he does these different scandals but it's called swindled okay if you find the episode on the McDonald's hot coffee thing he went to a deep dive on that it was very interesting yeah but is there anything on there disclaimer or anything like that now I'm looking at didis now okay like none of them I mean adidas does say a new rocker point offers improved running economy which if you know what that means could mean your gate's gonna be altered to make you more efficient well it will be interesting to see how this situation it'll take some time yeah it'll be very interesting to see if it ends up end up settling if it settles I've become more and more suspicious that they didn't want to open up their records at all yeah if it settles if they take it all the way that could get really interesting but I could see something where there's a settlement and then part of that settlement is that they will put something on their site that references like an expectation of I'm just like some sort of expectation of running whatever yeah I don't know change changing like you're running for I'm they're not gonna word it that way in any way shape or form but one last thing yeah I went to run it I forgot that I went to run it one of the thing so apparently there's a youtube breakdown I haven't watched the youtube breakdown but that breakdown brings up the fact that she does a high volume of races so another conspiracy theory could be that it's not the shoes and the technology but the fact that her contract required her to run so many races in those shoes because Puma would control her contract and you can't really go after a sponsor because like you required me to run to many races yeah so this could be like a workaround like because you required me to run to many races in your shoes it caused me to be permanently damaged but you can go after the shoes not the contract again I think that the language that was picked is is so clearly putting the onus on Puma to like she's fired her shot I mean it I believe it be her if you bring the lawsuit isn't it your responsibility to prove the lawsuit like the defendant I think so just sit there yeah I mean from a PR standpoint it's awful but as a plaintiff you have to prove that your claim is true and then they would answer your claim so they would need some sort of basis, so if she's, if her team. Again, it's making it all about they were aware of these issues. They were aware that these, the performance of these products could lead to, yeah, like X could lead to Y, especially saying every day, regular, occasional, whatever word she uses, runners, yeah, smart. I think I guess we'll see legal background, yeah, all right. All right, well, pumpkin says we're done, he wants dinner, party, all right, cool. Well, tell the folks who are going to find us, um, I mean, no one finds us anyway. So people, well, you can no longer find Kelly at the bean. We know that. Unfortunately, catch me there next time, I'm in Chicago though. Yeah. So. All right. Well, thanks as always, then we'll close it out. Much appreciated. Thanks for listening to another episode of lifting, running and living. We appreciate you. Thank you. Take care. We'll talk to you next time. Bye, everyone.