Did Kanye Make Taylor Swift Famous?

Hi, I'm John. Hi, I'm Adrianna. And this is Kanye Conversations. And tonight we're going to be answering the question to the best of our abilities. Did Kanye in fact make Taylor Swift famous? What are your initial thoughts on this, Adrianna? Okay, so I genuinely believe that Kanye made Taylor Swift famous. Wow. Like, for sure. Like, oh wow, he wants to turn to the stratosphere, John. I think maybe, like, I think she would have found a lot of success and a lot of fame without Kanye. Maybe, I don't know. But I do think that he had a significant impact on the level. I think she would have been successful, but I don't know if she would have been famous. Oh, that's a really good point. Yeah, I genuinely believe that Taylor Swift's talent would have carried her to excellent places, regardless. I am like a fan of Taylor Swift's music. But, like, I think it's undeniable, like, the impact that Kanye had on her career, which I'm so excited to dive into and just kind of consider. Yeah, so from. So it's kind of a. Not am big US, but a. We don't want to make it an abstract point and just saying, "Oh, of course you did. Oh no, you didn't." And so we thought it would be good to maybe take a look at some numbers to quantify some of the differences, I guess, between pre-Kanye and post-Kanye. Yes! Taylor Swift. So good. So, John, these are some statistics that I love for you and you sweet listener and a list to consider. So this first one is comparing Taylor Swift's first week album sales. So Taylor Swift had an album. It came out in 2008. It's called Fearless. It was a really good album. I was showing John earlier, like, my copy of Fearless. It's definitely, like, a beloved album to me. Like, I really actually love it. I was also in her target demographic. I was, like, in high school, like, donally. Of course, I would know her, but, like, after. I think I'll be on there because she's about to speak now. So John, would you look at these numbers? I think they're very chart-adrenable. I think even though no one will be able to see it. That's beautiful. So Fearless in 2008 sold 592,000 copies in its first week. And then the Kaniyans didn't happen in 2009. And her next album, Speak Now, has sold 1,047,000 copies. So that's a significant increase. Yeah. And we're going to be quantified it with your brilliant math. Thank you. So this week, album sales increased 455,000. And to put that percentage wise, it increased by 77%. 76.9 to be precise. And so it is, there's correlation here between the Kaniyans, but we can't say there's necessarily causation that he caused it. But it is interesting. After that incident, her album sales skyrocketed. Like that's no joke. Like 77%. That's huge. Yeah. And then also, I think something to look at, as well as Instagrammys are pretty recent. Yeah, being able to look at just their career statistics. Yeah. Kaniyay, very impressive. Jay-Z actually has the most by a rap artist's nominations. I didn't know that. But Kaniyans, wait, but that means Kaniyans has a high percentage of wins though. Any way to say Kaniyans the best. But Kaniyay has 69 total nominations. And Taylor has 32 total nominations. That is less than half. Kaniyay has 21 wins. And Taylor has 10 wins. So, yeah, that's a difference of 11. Taylor, definitely, incredibly impressive. She is younger. She's at a low, not a lower point. But she's not as far in her career as Kaniyay is in his career. I don't know if it's understandable, she only has half as much at this point, but still, yeah. And also, four were awarded directly after the Kaniyay incident. And then two more were awarded after this second one. But we'll talk about that later. Yeah. So, before the incident, well, let's just say at the end. The incident was when, of course, she was winning her best female video at the VMA Awards. And then Kaniyay got up on stage, empowered by his views of justice and some alcohol. And it's just as he had gone to admit. And he said, "I'ma let you finish Taylor." But Beyoncé had one of the best videos of all time. Oh, it's time! And so, yeah, she was shocked. I don't know how old she was. She was probably like. She was young. Yeah, maybe like, 2022. Maybe younger, yeah. I think she was 19. Yeah, I remember waking up the next morning when my mom was like, "Did you see what this guy Kaniyay did?" Taylor Swift, like, yeah, it was a huge deal. But she had zero Grammys up to that point. Understandable because she was really young and was fearless. Was that the album she had won Grammys from? Mm-hmm. But before that, she had an album called Taylor Swift. And that was a really good album too. I remember really liking it. She had a song called "Tear Drops" on my guitar that was like, "I'm ready to go to Disney." It's so like, just a button to his perspective, like the point that Taylor Swift was at in her career. And I remember, like, purchasing that album and really liking it. And I think that that album is good. But then, so that was her freshman album, her sophomore album, "Fearless." That's the one. When do Grammy nominations come out? So the nominations come out early in the year, like, January? Oh, okay, so not. Because the Taylor, the incident happened September 2009. And the Grammy Awards in next year were February 2010. So that means that it's not like she was nominated before. And so, do you think that she would have been nominated or won? You really don't think so? I don't think so, Joel. But you belong with me as such a good song. It is such a good song. But like, when you look against who she was up against, like, they're not the same demographic. Like, this is country music. I mean, I'm not gonna pretend like I know country. But like, Taylor Swift actually, similar to Kanye, it really did break molds for country music. Because like, when you think of country music, you kind of think of like, you know, more instrument-based, more storytelling-based, and yeah, Taylor Swift definitely incorporates that into her music. But like, you belong with me, could play on pop radio. So she revolutionized country music. For sure. Kind of like Kanye did with rap. But, I don't know if you're the one who's just different. You know who she was nominated against? I don't. But I feel like they were like reputable country stars, you know? Yeah, did she win record and song of the year like. Yeah, she won't know. The war thing too, yeah. And did she. was that her album of the year? Yeah, so she was two albums of the year. She had one of the second album of the year happened. Adriana. Right after Kanye called her famous. Um, yeah, so that was also kind of like, in correlation with. Not const necessarily. But definitely a lot of correlation, I think. So that's 2016. So she won her big Grammy's like 2010 and 2016. Yeah, just like what Yuri's saying. I don't think that she's undeserving of the Grammys. I think she did, but I think it's definitely secured for sure. So what is this chart we have here? Is this. So in 2009, Kanye had a total of 12 Grammys. Uh-huh. And that's just. that's not just in 2009, right? No. Okay, I was gonna say that's. Yeah, that was since like, before. Nice. And then in 2010, he won two Grammys until his Swift 1/4. Yeah. There's some correlation there. I think so. I'm going to. So what is your conclusion about the VMAs? Okay, so my conclusion is that like, it's undeniable that Kanye assisted in her popularity. And I think that Kanye made her world's famous. World's famous. And probably would have wrote that, but it didn't sound as good as that. No, exactly. It sounds called famous, not world famous. And then they actually write after the. Right after it all happened, the president of like Taylor Swift's label, someone who was in authority. They. he spoke with, what was it? It might have been the Wall Street Journal or something like that. It was one of the big newspapers. And he actually said, "Dekanya incident brought attention to Taylor to an audience that did not really know her or her music. And when they did check it out, they discovered that they really liked it." So almost what you're saying, like, you were in her prime demographic, like a probably a 15, 16 year old girl. But then people like myself, I wasn't a huge Kanye fan at the time, but people who liked Kanye were likely like, "Oh shoot, like who is this person?" And so even he was able to recognize. Yeah. Kanye's not taking credit for her abilities or her skills, because she's undeniably talented. Yeah. But he's taking some credit for the level of fame that she has, I guess. So, have you seen that meme? Or it's like, everybody says yeehaw, but nobody ever says ha yeeh. Like, how are you? So, like, let's think about that. Have you ever thought about that? I don't like why did Kanye snatch the mic out of young swans? - We angel Taylor Swift's hand. - What, Alon had eight awaits come out yet? - Yeah. I don't, I think he. I don't know, I've heard different things. I think he was drinking a lot that evening. Oh, I guess that was one of the things. I think he also, 'cause he was friends with Jay-Z and Beyonce, he had connections that way. 'Cause he stood up for Beyonce, but, yeah, I guess. Yeah, I think he was definitely like, emboldened by the alcohol. Part of me thinks like even if he like, wasn't drinking, he might have still done it. - It's time, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think there is so much to consider when it comes to Kanye's motivations. I was watching a lot of videos actually, like in preparation for the podcast. And one that I don't have it recorded or anything, but it actually was a leaked video of Kanye reacting like immediately after the Taylor Swift incident. And like, he's like kinda sounds like full of like rage actually. So this is like the night. And he's like, I don't want anymore Elvis's when there are James Browns, you know? Kind of considering like, oh, what does that look like to genuinely believe that like, why is Taylor Swift like a white woman getting credit for like what he genuinely believed like Beyonce, like a black woman to like be deserving of it. So I just have a video about Kanye kinda like, explaining that. Like he calls himself a soldier of culture. So genuinely like, I don't know, with the conviction that like, black women aren't being recognized the way they should be. Which? - Oh, the great. I don't know if that's irony or what it is, but because Beyonce ended up winning the big BNA, the video music of the, 'cause Taylor Swift just won the female specific video of the year, but Beyonce ended up winning the big giant. - Yeah, so darn it. That's funny. But yeah, and also he had just lost his mom. Like that's incredibly tough. And you know, Donda being a black woman who I think Kanye, like 'cause I have a hard copy of 808's and Heartbreak. And in that, like he has a huge poster of Donda, like all dressed up so beautiful. So yeah, I'd love to play Kanye on, he's on the Ellen DeGeneres show. Talking about, 'cause the both were like on talk shows, like all the time. It was like such a first chunk of it, yeah. Oh, man, it was a wild time. It was like the talk of a home room when I was in high school. Okay, so here is Kanye on Ellen, kinda talking about his motivations. I feel like in some ways I'm a soldier of culture. And I realize that no one wants that to be my job. And I'm never gonna stage again. I'll never sit in a wardrobe again. But will I feel convicted about things that really meant stuff to culture that constantly get denied for years and years and years? I'm sorry, I will. I cannot lie about it in order to sell records. - Yeah, so things that are being denied. That's so interesting to me. But I think another thing that's so important is that Kanye did apologize, you know? Like genuinely. - Like my heartfelt, yeah. And like the media genuinely made him out to be like evil. Like here's this evil man, like going up against this like, you know, wonderful, like darling from Kanye's perspective. I'm kinda presenting that from Kanye's perspective, which I think emboldened him to even more, like to act even more reckless. Like you know, in feedback when he's like Pablo, but I really had a route while I was seeing like the more famous only got wilder. Oh, I love that one. Oh, like only got wilder. That's beautiful. But like, so Jay Leno, I feel like I never even watched Jay Leno. Like I feel like right when I was like, like did you ever watch Jay Leno? I feel like you're retired. - Not really. - I watched some with occasionally David something, the guy from New York. - A Letterman? - Letterman, yeah. It wasn't like a case name if I stayed up late. - Yeah. - You stayed up late at 8.30, around that time. - Nice. Oh yeah, my bedtime was definitely 8.30 going up. So yeah, let me pledge, this is Kanye on the Jay Leno show. And just observe the way the Jay Leno talks to Kanye. Like I think it was out of pocket, but I think I don't think Kanye West deserve to be talked like this. - I immediately knew in the situation that it was wrong and it wasn't a spectacle where this, you know, it's actually someone's emotions, you know, that I stepped on it. It was very, it was just, it was rude, very, and, you know, I like to be a apologized to a person and I wanted to, let me ask something. I was fortunate enough to meet your mom and talk with your mom about years ago. - No. - No. - What do you think she would have said about this? - Um. - Oh, good bye. - Yeah. - Would she be disappointed in this? Would she give you a lecture? - Yeah. - Number one, how dare? - To ever consider what Dr. West would think about Kanye. Like how rude. Like if I did something bad, my mom had just died. And someone was like, what do you think your mom would say? - Her mom would love me no matter what actually. Like how rude. Like, oh. - And they did that recently with Kanye, like he's been on the news and even them are like, yeah, it would make Donda roll over in her grave. Especially in that moment with Jay Leno, because it was so recent for him and it was such a big deal for him. Like he literally changed the style of music for a whole album because of it. But then even now they still like, just like anyway, I guess to make Kanye look bad or feel bad. And it's just, I don't know, it's a low blow for sure. - Definitely. Yeah, not cool. Also I think it'd be kind of fun to talk about like, what were their responses to this incident? Because their careers definitely like, both of them I think took off after. So like Taylor Swift after this happened, she was on talk shows, she was on magazine covers. I remember shout out Lauren, best friend Lauren since kindergarten. She and I would like walk after school, like to CVS and like we would go into like the, like the magazine section and like we would listen. And there's like J14 and like M magazine. I don't know if like, - I'm unfamiliar with that. - I don't think so. Like just like walking in like, you seem like the teeny-bopper. - Yeah. - Yeah, so learning how to love. - Teeny-bopper, is that a current term? Or is that something? - I think that old person term. Teeny-bopper. - Teeny-bopper. - Yeah, and like you could like take quizzes and there'd be like horoscopes and like, I don't know, just all like that kind of stuff. And so, but on every cover was Taylor Swift after September. I'm learning I'm literally like, oh my God, why? 'Cause learn like, thank you for listening to it 'cause I know you do. But like you were never really like a big Taylor Swift fan, even to this day. But like you're never really a big conny fan either. So things were taking my side. - So you might if I read off some of Taylor's accomplishments. - Yeah. - 'Cause this is definitely not a poop on Taylor Party. - That's so true. - I've accomplished amazing things. Swift launched number one on the Billboard 200 with reputation, marking her fifth number one, I think that's album. - Yeah. - Five number one albums, that's incredible. Her sales, album sales, 7.1 million on fearless, 6.1 million on 1989, 5.7 million on Taylor Swift, 4.6 million on Speak Now. Her album sales stand at 31.4 million all time. And all time that's 23rd best selling album artist since Nielsen started rating that. She's only behind for females, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Shania Twain and Britney Spears. So like all those people are older. So she's probably like the most dominant female artist. I would say like around her and Katie Perry, I think is also huge. - Yeah. - Like Lady Gaga's a little less. - Like I like Lady Gaga the best probably. But yeah, she has, her best selling digital songs, Love Song Alone has 6 million sales. 5.4 million for I knew you were trouble. And yeah, she's an outstanding artist. This is not to poop on her at all, who has accomplished a lot on her own. But it's how much, so it's a little, a little kick out the door, a little impetus of it. - So true. - Yeah, so what did she do after this? - I think she did the best she ever could. Like she's, oh wow. Like people like dream of careers like that. And she like, she did it. Like that's incredible for her. Yeah, so good. But what did, what did Call me do? What did he do after this incident? What do you do when the whole nation, the president, is calling you words. What do you do after that? - Do you flee? You just get out of here. there. Maybe. I think that's what I would do. I was just like I'm just gonna like go to China and teach English. I know that's like my not it's like my worst-case scenario as they call it but even that I'm like oh like things will turn out okay. I'm sure I have so much fun. I get no jobs here. I'll be okay. Yeah yeah God bless English majors. Yeah that's exactly what Kanye did like he fled. He fled the whole country. He went to Japan and then Hawaii. I okay. Do you think that we would have my beautiful dark twos of fantasy? Like a masterpiece album like honestly probably like the greatest album of all time. Like people can recognize that without like the media arms law that was after Kanye. Wow it's like would we have like after such a great defeat only can they come a victory. Yeah. So would we have my beautiful dark twos of fantasy with Al Taylor Swift? I I don't think so. I think so either. It's almost like yeah I think that's an important thing. So if Taylor Swift was never born the world would be different but in a worse way I'm glad Taylor Swift exists. Me too. I'm very glad Taylor Swift exists. Actually the world would be worse off because the album might not exist. Oh my gosh we almost wouldn't have ever gotten devil in a new dress. Oh. So Kanye to some degree has Taylor I don't know though. Do you think that's something that like imagine you like went to a university applied to a bunch of PhD programs and they all said like no like you suck like there's no chance. No I'm saying like hypothetical I'm sure they never would but and then you go you really hone your skills and then you go produce the great modern English poem. Okay. Like Richard Spencer attempted to deal. Would you like thank the universities? Like so do you think Kanye has the media to thank for? Because I mean yeah do you think that that they played a because they played a causal role somewhere in there but like do they deserve anything for it do you think. I think so yeah I think that's such a mature perspective to have to like be like oh no I can I can think you know the people that like did me wrong it's kind of like to bring Jesus into this because I love doing that like in the five orange Genesis what you intended to hurt me God intended for good and to bring many people to salvation. So like definitely good things can happen because of bad things and you can actually look back in our spect and thank you and like actually thank you like you know um so yeah I think so let's such a good point John wow I'd love to play um so John had you ever considered the line like FSNL in the whole cast? And I just knew it was a sound I just knew like those sound waves in my ears but they're okay that's not the easy said but like no I never understood the words there yeah I never realized it was a line I thought it was just a coming off of the like 24th century SOM right? no no no yeah I can see that so I'll never forget sitting like in home room class like with my friend Kayla and just like considering like my beautiful dark twisted fantasy had just dropped and also Pink Friday had dropped and it was just so it was like I like back in like fireworks or coming off the matter and it was like a big deal and so you're like looking at the lyrics like looking at all the songs and like Monster was a pretty big one um but like so was power like power was definitely like a standout track and so um all my friends and I really liked Taylor Lautner and so Taylor Lautner was dating Taylor Swift at the time he was actually on stage when um like Kanye took the mic away from me he didn't stop him he didn't stop him lame I know right like that's your girl go up and I don't know so who's fast um but I'm glad he didn't do that because Kanye would have I don't know that's ridiculous um so many things to consider god but um so con so Taylor Lautner goes on to host SNL and he's basically saying like this is what I would have done but I didn't get the chance to and so there's a cardboard cutout of Kanye West and like Taylor Lautner is like really cool like I don't know he does like yeah I was gonna be like Ninja moves like backflips and like kicks and stuff and so like I'm not gonna play the video because literally it's him grunting and I don't want to play that and so but like to paint a picture for you imagine Taylor Lautner like pretending to kick Kanye set off twice and then actually punching it like a cardboard cutout of Kanye's head tough guy yeah right like so tough a man is not even like in the country and like people clapping because a man's head got punched off. Another middle east mom's guaranteed. Yeah so silly and then of course we get SNL in the whole cast so a musy said that's much more meaning now cuz when I read like when I listen to tell him easy said I always just thought it was like oh like just generic like anyone pretty but now it's like specifically Taylor Lautner and the whole cast of us and I want a goofball. I know goodness uh wild first. Yes there's so much to should we okay I'll read my part. Yes. And then so I was looking at articles kind of about this and so I looked up like did Kanye make Taylor famous and I found one article that said proof is on people.com she knows a reputable source proof Kanye West definitely did not make Taylor Swift famous. Let's see point number one one year before the 2009 MTV VMA incident Swift to come a young Hollywood award for superstar of tomorrow was nominated for best new artist of the Grammys in 2008. Okay very cool you know she's a talented art can you name a bunch of the other artists who are nominated from 2008 2007 in 2010 I don't know who the author of this paper was but apparently they lost track of time says in 2010 she became the youngest artist to win a Grammy for album of the year fearless the same year she scooped up Grammys for best country song and best country album 2010 wait Adriana is that after the Kanye incident yes it is number three swiss third album speak now came out after the Kanye incident is the fastest selling digital album for a female artist in the Guinness Book of World Records and every other accomplishment 2010 the singer was named entertainment weeklies youngest entertainment of entertainer of the year we're never getting back together 2013 was crowned the fastest selling hit number one of the year and then she's list two thousand the are author list two thousand and fifteen accomplishments like wow she's just she's like I don't know if is a guy or girl I feel like it's a young Taylor Swift apologist or something trying to defend her but like all of these awards come after the the Kanye thing like I she does not do a great job of uh proving her point or him I'll just use this person like I I was dying I was like there's no way this person thought it was a real article like proof that it didn't happen all the stuff they list is after the Kanye incident yeah so I thought that was pretty ridiculous and that was like one of the top results so like yeah yeah definitely not helping my case by listing stuff that happened after yeah great job great research yeah cool so that was like their first like interaction like where they're like uh their first like contention and then John new room of 2016 2016 waiting for life of Pablo to come out and then the line is that how the song starts right yeah well it starts with that really cool and you're like woo and like this was like before Pablo had dropped like I'm not as like so fast it was like raising support during that time I was like wild um that like okay yeah so it's it's definitely the first line in the song so I kind of wanted to talk about like the lyrics like a really small like um like not analysis but just kind of like recognizing that this song is not like about Taylor Swift you know I feel like a lot of people like a lot of my friends that like you know know this song kind of isn't like the song like where he talks about how he made Taylor so famous and like yes but that's like not all he talked about you know so it begins with for all myself side that know me best I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex why I made that famous so like the way I interpret that line it's like definitely like really like tongue and cheek it's definitely like provocative like that's what Kanye explores on life of Pablo you know like there's that duality that like you know that that wrestling with monogamy versus like like have you know FML like got um willing to make this my mission give up the women like I don't think that that's like there's like a larger there's more to it than that if we're good looking at it than like the deconstructionalist literary theory um where it's like yeah that's like the only meaning but like when you look at the constructives viewpoint actually no so um yeah so I think that like it's not really talking about Taylor but like talking about like overcame the backlash and how it affected his desires like he still messes with Taylor like you know he gets like oh I still mess with Taylor so left or he could be like kind of provocative and so you think we still like have sex like we're that close like we still do that. It's like definitely the bravado. I think the big thing John is that she approved the line. I just want to stop you there. Okay, what? You don't like it? I feel like you given him a big like the benefit of the job. I think this song is about Taylor Swift. Oh, well I mean obviously not the whole thing but it's like the centerpiece the center line the obvious like I think kind of when he wrote this it's not like he was like oh I wonder what people like about the song. He's like all right I'm gonna get people with like the first line. I think that there is more to it but I think that this is definitely I don't know I will I don't give Kanye that bit that much of the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Okay well that's good so we're not just like I like that we're different that's good. Oh my gosh I think there's just so much more to it than just the Taylor line John but no I everything is saying is good. But I don't know I'm just like I'm such an English major I want to look at it from a constructivist way and so like you're right maybe he did want to just like hook people with the Taylor line but then he goes on to talk about like you know for all the girls that got from Kanye West if you see him in the streets given Kanye's best like they're mad they're not famous they're not they're still nameless so he's talking about like Hood fame mainstream fame he's just like exploring like fame and so this is my attempt trying to justify Kanye. Maybe yeah I think I don't know it's kind of like Jesus it's like maybe but I don't know but because doesn't the beat drop out when he says the Taylor Swiftline yeah yeah cuz that's what you're saying for breathing without you're like oh yeah but I mean maybe but I do think the what the fallout I came from this that you were about to touch on about the line itself and like is this something that came out of nowhere or did Taylor Swift maybe approve of it beforehand and then played the victim after it came out Taylor Swift victim no way impossible oh gosh yeah yeah exactly okay so 2016 famous a big giant music video it's it's everywhere good John that's so good oh my god I don't think so good you're not missing anything I promise it's literally just it's literally just like a slow cam of like naked like they're wax figures or something yeah like wax figures yeah I mean yeah I watched it but then I pray that okay so and I only watched it once such good questions so there's like outrage over this there is like outrage like oh how dare Kanye call her like that how dare he like take control over her image cuz he did make like a wax figure of her naked body without her consent which like if he didn't have consent like sure I think that that there's definitely grounds for that but the thing is there is because there's a whole hour worth of phone call and that's what Kanye said Kanye said like no Taylor approved everything we were on the phone call we were on the phone for an hour Taylor denies that at first she's like Kanye just wanted me to promote the album on Twitter and I said no and I warned him against the strong misogynist message that's so bad that is so bad cuz like she gets so exposed oh man yeah Ed do you want to do you want to talk about the phone call John yes sure cuz it came out like there's gonna be a lawsuit or something about it and then I remember Kim had the video of it and it was cuz I think it was illegally recorded like couldn't have been used in court I don't think but imagine Taylor Swift suing technically winning but then everyone just watches and it's like okay you're a snake we clearly so I don't think anything came of that but yeah it was pretty bad cuz I remember Kim was like oh no like he was here oh oh oh never cuz it came out after so I love keeping up with the Kardashians they don't watch it all the time but when I do like watch it had done and so I think the episode is called like the wife of Pablo which I think is really don't this is not so good I'm just talking about like Kim's like I am so tired of people like attacking my husband for no reason like they had a phone call and tired of Taylor Swift like playing the victim and like I understand that like you know I'm nobody's wife but like if I ever am god yeah I would never want anyone to talk about my husband in a way that's untrue and so she like releases it out of a place of like this is defending Kanye because like she at the Grammys when she won in 2016 remember she said John I don't have the exact words but she's like listen up women of the world anyone tries to take credit for your success and your accomplishments I don't know she said after that but I was along those lines yeah definitely like a place of preaching like basically saying like oh so no yeah right like if that was if there wasn't all this phone call like maybe I can understand it's more justified but the fact that she was so duplicitous about it I used that word in class today I mean that's a press I was like I've never said that but like is that did I use it right but just her just the fakeness of her like oh I didn't say this like Kanye's a misogynist he taking advantage of me yeah like this truth comes out and she's still I don't know if the video came out after she went on stage about it but it was like after oh you just won your second album of the year you haven't won in how long seven years since the last time yeah oh that's kind of weird timing and you're a snake about like this video and stuff yeah but yeah it is I just can't stand do plus city so with all the love and gentleness in the world John do you want to talk about this transcript we have the the transcript of the phone call that transpired because she denies it she denies it that like this phone call never happened but then yeah Kim it shows like no like this happened yeah so Kanye says from myself said that know me best I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex and then Taylor after that says I'm like this close to overexposure what do you think she means I don't understand that line so like I think with Taylor Swift she is very like her image and like the image that she like wants people to like see her eyes it's very like calculated like she's very she's got a like a lot of like she doesn't really have huge scandals you know I think this was like her first like major like oh my gosh Taylor Swift is a snake like she had a really good reputation I think and then like yeah and then if she made an album called reputation about like how should her reputation got messed up by this because I mean how could it not your exposure being a snake her most recent album when she came on with the look what she made me do in her like style kind of change but I mean like even changes her style of pop to like a more eddie pop like she's talented yeah very very good definitely and then where does it get to the specifics over the cuz that's just I feel like me and Taylor myself sex and then she eventually says I know I mean it's compliment kind of I was like what I give you as a person and as a friend she's like that sweet man you underline this part said oh yeah I mean go through whatever line you think is better it's obviously very tongue-in-cheek either way and I really appreciate you telling me about it that's really nice and then she goes up on the stage and is like credit for your fame I'm sorry I have like I said I don't know why I say sorry I know that you know I'm gonna put in a clock job I will I just have a cherry hauls one time I didn't realize you're only told to have those like every couple hours like when you need it but I want to know my friends house I literally had like a whole bag like it just ate a bag the back like I didn't know I just kept eating them and then my mouth was like red and cherry for like a couple days so nasty I miss halls but oh he's so good they're super sugary huh yeah yeah I don't offer you one but you don't have a call okay thank you you all buy some sometimes just for like enjoyment John treats himself to cherry hauls that's awesome okay there you go so thanks for that yeah so I underline to the go with whatever line you think is better because I think that gives like full license to like artistic freedom yeah she she knows you're speaking right yeah like whatever you think is best and like scared of us or careful she asks for it yeah yeah and I just think like I want to believe Taylor Swift is like a genuinely nice person like she invites fans like enter her homes and like gives them gifts and stuff like like that's, that's awesome. Like, but then it makes me question like the authenticity of it because like, look, she's like, "Oh, thanks, yeah, I really appreciate it." Like, the heads up is so nice. Like, with things without even asking or seeing like, "If I'd be okay with it and I just really appreciate it, I'd never would have expected you to tell me about a line in your song." Okay. And then the flowers you sent me because Kanye like had sent her some flowers. And then Kanye says, "Relationships are more important than punchlines." And then this is where it starts to get like, really good. Clear. Hmm. Taylor says, "Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody would listen to that and be like, "Oh, that's a real disc. Like, she must be crying about it." You got to tell the story of the way that it happened to you and the way you experienced it. That you obviously didn't know who I was before that. Yeah. And she says, "It doesn't matter if I sold 7 million of that album before you did that, which is what happened, you didn't know who I was before that." So it's almost her saying like the whole success thing. Like, she was successful, but people didn't fully know who she was yet. Yeah. And I can make these things happen and I have the ideas to do it. And I create these things and concepts and I'm always going to respect you. And I'm really glad you had the respect to call me and tell me as a friend about the song. It's just a really cool thing to do and a really good show of friendship. So thank you. That is wild because that makes me think that she did know about the famous line. Because it even says that, where does it say that? And you know if people ask me about it, I think, where is it? You don't want to call this a feud, you want to call this throwing shade, but right after the song comes out, I'm going to be on the Grammy-Wide Carpet and they're going to ask me about it and I'm going to be like, he called me. That did not happen. That did not happen. Waiting for that interview. Yeah, the opposite happened. Yeah. So she initially was most upset. The reason it was that she didn't like being called the B word. Because it's, I feel like me and her might still have sex. Why? I made that B famous. So in like that three line, it's like me and Taylor still might have sex. Like, I don't think that's a compliment. But then there's the B and there's like, I made her famous. And I feel like making her famous would be the biggest dig at her. I think so. But she, this is actually maybe what I'm thinking about it right now is that her getting up on her soap box, she claims that it was like the famous part up there that like made her the most upset. Yeah. But while she wasn't up there, she's like, oh, I didn't like being called a B. Yeah. And so it was almost her in two ways, like finding. Yeah. And then there was a versiony in Kanye, like, oh, he can't call me that or like, oh, I'm responsible for my own fame. And so like, yeah, I think that it was dishonest of her to maybe she was trying to just set it up like that. Or maybe she really, she had an opportunity. She's like, maybe I didn't get like that recorded or not. But I do think it was very dishonest of her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. And to defend Kanye's recording of the album, he was recording, he didn't just, I think that's a common misconception that, oh, they like got her on the phone just to specifically trick her. But they were recording everything, John, like the life of Pablo sessions, like they were going to make a documentary on it. There's actually like-- Is there a documentary? No. But there's some leaked stuff that I could send you. Just randomly email you again. Um, like, and like on the Google Drive, there's like a demo of Black Skinhead that was going to be on Pablo with like Miley Cyrus and like Travis Scott. And yeah. Mm-hmm. And there's like the waves that like, Chance had done with him. So like there's a bunch of like, like Pablo was a really big project. Like he took like three years after Jesus to make life a Pablo. And I thought it was-- life Pablo's incredible album. And like definitely worth the wait because like, mm-hmm. Like they were-- he was putting a lot of thought into it and like wanting to record everything. Very detailed oriented. And so like that's why he was recording the phone call because it was going to be this big old huge thing, you know? Mm. And I finally found the line. It says-- it's the second and last one. It's awesome. That you're outspoken and it's going to be like, yeah, she does. It made her famous. It's more provocative to say. Might still have sex. Oh my god. Yeah, it's like, she's given the okay to like pretty much all of it. Yeah. And so I guess you can say, oh Kanye, like that's not the best line you could have chosen. It's not the most like uplifting to Taylor. But at the same time, like he got approval for her. Approval for her, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And here's like where the conspiracy part comes in just a tiny bit. There's-- okay. There's like ideas that like Taylor Swift was going to take legal action against them because like this is a fact. Like Taylor Swift's lawyers, set in Kim Kardashian like a cease and destroy letter. Like destroy like any phone call. But obviously she did it. But it's kind of chopped up. Like I don't think it's a-- I don't think it's like-- Oh, like she just posted it on Snapchat. Like I think she posted it on Snapchat on purpose because you can like upload like in sections and stuff. But like I think that she didn't record her giving consent for the B-word line so that Taylor Swift could draft up that like apology letter. So, actually I use this the other day because Walt falls me on Twitter and he like responded to one of my tweets. And like he used the B-word like not even about me, but like-- and so I like-- and I like pulled up this and that was like-- [laughs] [laughs] But like this is what Taylor said. Like she's like, where's the video of Kanye telling me that he was going to call me that B in his song. It doesn't exist because it never happened. You don't get to control someone's emotional response to being called that B in front of the entire world. Of course I wanted to like the song. I wanted to believe Kanye when he told me that I would love the song. I wanted us to have a friendly relationship. He promised to play the song for me, but never did. Like wanted to be supportive and all those things and then she ends with like I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative. One that I've never asked to be a part of since 2009. So I think that like that was drafted up in collaboration with like the lawyers because like if you include lawyers and something, they're going to be all over that. And so I think like she didn't include that approval so that Taylor Swift could post that because that still gives her like some damage control. You know in the world of PR I have no idea. I took one communications class like at Cal Poly and I know much about PR but like I think that like maybe there's like more collaboration between the two than like we think. But that just gets fierce. So then like the lawyer of Taylor said oh like we'll settle if you get rid of that part. It wasn't okay. So then they didn't do it and up doing anything more. No legal pressing matters after that. I think recently like Taylor, no not Taylor. Um if Kim Kardashian was on some talk show and they asked like oh how's like the beef with Taylor and then she was like it's over. Like it's not it's not a thing like we've moved on. So that's a good thing that they're able to move on. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well so yeah I really hope you didn't get the interpretation that like we or the impression that we were like hating on Taylor Swift at all just a genuine in depth consideration. Like did Kanye make Taylor's way famous? So John like with all of this. Do you think Kanye made Taylor famous? I was only held with it 2009. I was like 11. I wasn't a Kanye fan. Didn't know about Taylor Swift. Besides like what I heard in Friends Cars. But I think she was in this is okay. This is what I think of it. I think it. So Kanye gave her a great opportunity in the sense of imagine a basketball coach or just like somebody in authority giving someone an opportunity to take a hold of fame and to take a hold of like the national attention. And Taylor made the most of it. Kanye obviously didn't continue making her famous. He did not make the albums that she sold millions of copies of like that was Taylor Swift. But part of the reason maybe she was able to have such a platform was because of what Kanye did. And it's like it is what Kanye did right. It depends on your viewpoint. I think it was rude. And I think you can argue from what you're saying like the soldier of the culture like he saw injustice and so he acted upon it. I do have to say though even with Beck when he like was about to come on stage like I didn't know who Beck was. We were playing Grammy's trivia last night and people were like who's Beck and I was like the only reason I know Beck is because Kanye like went up to the stage pretty much. And so I was like Kanye through unfortunate circumstances gave her an opportunity and gave her fame. But after that I think she took it and ran with it and like did a lot on her own. Yeah. That was perfectly said. I think yeah. That's yeah. Exactly. So like she definitely took you know her unfortunate circumstance and made millions of talk layers out of it like good for a tailor. So I thought I'd be kind of fine to talk about like a like indecensive tailor so I've like. - John, do you have a favorite Taylor Swift song? - Yes, I have, I like a lot. I was going to Donut Man one time with some of my friends and we were listening to like Migos inside and they were like, "Play you belong with me." And I was like, "What is this?" And then I fell in love with that song. You're belonging me so good, but I think I like 22 the best because after some baseball tournament one day, it was playing on the field. It was just like such a sweet moment. I think 22 is my favorite song. - That's awesome. - What about you? - I love this song called Invisible. It's off her first album. I remember I don't know how old it was. I might have been like 13, I was young. And hearing that song, there was just so much depth to that song. Like it was very inspiring to me. Like I've been writing poems since I was like 13 and Taylor Swift wrote her own music. So I definitely looked to her for like inspiration and like I was like, wow, like she's very honest about how she's feeling. Like I can be honest about how I'm feeling. I'm not really her among other people. So I think it'd be fun to play You Warm with Me, 22 and then a little bit of invisible. So, okay, brace yourself. Kanye, you had some Taylor. So let's do You Warm with Me. ♪ Take where your skirt's ♪ ♪ I went to his ear ♪ ♪ She got the name ♪ ♪ All of me just ♪ ♪ Baby love it, baby ♪ ♪ Wake up and find it ♪ ♪ Whatcha looking for ♪ ♪ Has been here the whole time ♪ ♪ Is it been a long, long time ♪ ♪ And I feel like ♪ ♪ You see me ♪ ♪ Baby love me ♪ ♪ Baby love with me ♪ - Oh, is that banjo? - I'm sleeping. - It's that? - A beautiful song. - Yes. And then I think I made the 22 one. Okay, John. - All right. (baby crying) ♪ I don't know about you ♪ ♪ I don't feel enslaved to you ♪ ♪ But can you ever ♪ ♪ You can be my savior ♪ - Well, I'll play that next year when I turn 22. - Yes, I played that last year. I played 22. I haven't played any of those or 20. But like so close to it. - It's surrounding it. - Mm-hmm. And so this is like a little bit invisible. - I've never heard of it before. - It's good, John. ♪ And I think about it's how they make it make a me ♪ ♪ Everything we should be ♪ ♪ I just want to show you ♪ ♪ She don't even know you ♪ ♪ You're never gonna let you ♪ ♪ Like I want you to ♪ - Well. - You just see my feelings. ♪ If you want me to feel me ♪ ♪ We could be our beautiful miracles ♪ ♪ I believe in the miracles ♪ - Wow. It's all I can say. Like, oh, I've really liked, even like as a 23 year old. That's like impressive to make an art that like, oh, I connected with it when I was like younger. And even now, like that song, like every lyric is just very, very true and very nice. And so I like, she's so talented and like makes quality music. - Yeah. - Yeah. - How fun talking about Taylor Swift. - Yes. I think, yeah. Taylor Swift's great artist. Little duplicated. - That kind of music. - But yeah. Do you have anything else to say about the wonderful Taylor Swift and Kanye West? - I can't not gonna make a song together. - That would be great. But at this point, with Kanye has been making music with people. Like I wouldn't doubt that it's not unreasonable. I think that they make a song together. - I'll charm the day that comes out like. - And it's like a country song and he's like singing country in auto tune that. Like I would put money that that will never happen. That's impossible. But if that happens, it's so cool. - Yeah, I totally agree. I'm them. - All right. - So this has been - Kanye Conversation. - Goodbye. - Bye.