Diagnosed at 50: What Happens When You Finally Understand Your Brain? | Riffin with Tracy King

Hello there everybody. I want to introduce you to my new friend Tracy King, no relation as far as I know. He loved the corporate life over a decade ago because she needed to build something that actually worked for her brain. I can relate to that. But she didn't know what that was that I'll look like at the time. She founded, now help me out with this, inspire her ed. Yep, inspire dad. Inspire dad. A consultancy and instructional design agency that makes learning experiences that don't feel like work and a facturial back in time. She does it for associations and for continuing education providers. So awesome. But here's the thing. Tracy didn't get diagnosed with autism and ADHD until well under her adult life. I can relate to that as a successful business owner and mom of nerd divergent kids. And that late discovery completely reframed everything she built and everything she wants to say about the world to work better for everyone. And so much paralleled between you and I. I can't wait to compare notes there. But first, there's a question I like to ask everybody going out of the interviews. The question is when you wake up in the morning, what values are you committed to living? That's a great question. I am committed to being authentic to communicating and being present in integrity as well as kindness. Something the last one cannot be practiced enough because we create a kinder world by bringing more kindness to it. Absolutely. Oh, that person is so rude to me. That's their contribution. You've got to stay with yours. Yeah. Armandra, when I was raising my kiddos was kindness and respect. So anytime they were going at it or there was big feelings about whatever, we had to ground ourselves in kindness and respect before we took our next steps into problem-solving. That's beautiful. How old are your kiddos now? They're all young adults too in college and to the workforce. Yeah, minor adults as well. They're all working but you know, they're in this world of uncertainty and where the institutions as we know them are breaking down, there's no path to follow. I'm going to be a lawyer or I'm going to be a business this year that this is the specific curriculum. I'm going to follow in as soon as I graduate. Wow, the door to my first job is open. That world doesn't exist. Yeah, there's so many unknowns. It's tough to be a young adult right now with all of those unknowns. What is what is a future hold? There's no certainty in it anymore. So how old were you when you got the diagnosis? I was in my early 50s. Okay, real late bloomer. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't like you to seek that. You know, this is a great story because a few years prior to that, my first kiddo was diagnosed with ADHD. I was like, oh, that's interesting. I didn't recognize that in my kid and that made me curious and I started reading about neurodivergence. And then another one of my kiddos was diagnosed with ADHD. I was like, hey, this is hereditary, isn't it? And we kind of did a deep dive as a family and as you're looking at this as a parent, a couple of things happen. One is recognizing your own brain in your kids, but also recognizing how I had taught them going up how to mask and how to self-support because that's how my brain worked, right? That's how I got along in life, not knowing what my neurotypes were. And so there was a big rewiring we had to do as a family. And so as my kids were getting formally diagnosed with ADHD, I did a big self-discovery around that too. And realized, self-realized that I'm both autistic and ADHD. And I saw a formal diagnosis for autism. My assessor said that, "Trisk King, you have profound executive dysfunction." Yeah, tell me about it. But there were other areas that she didn't feel that I was disabled enough to give me a formal ADHD recommendation. And those were areas that I mask the most. And so it's really hard to be accurately assessed. When you come into assessment, you have to know yourself and not just rely on someone who's observing you externally and through your stories. And so it's definitely a journey of self-discovery as well as if one chooses to pursue formal diagnosis. I decided to do that because I wanted to send the neuroinclusion conversation in my work. And I knew the first question would be, "Well, what's your stake in that?" And so I wanted to pursue a formal diagnosis because of that. A lot of people report feelings of relief or validation when they get the diagnosis. Was that true for you or did other things come up? There were lots of big feelings. I did feel relief. I did feel validation. It's the whole, now I understand myself. Now I understand my way of being. Now I understand my childhood. But then as you deepen your understanding, there's grief that comes with that. Like, what if I would have known? What if in the 70s parents understood that girls could have autism? And would it look different than the boys? Exactly. That my obsession with horses and repetitively drawing things and my sensory sensitivity is we're all big, big red flags that no one picked up on. What would have happened if I had the support that my kids have been able to have when I was in high school and college? How would that have changed things? Would that have changed the direction of my career? It certainly would have changed how I behaved in the corporate world. And helped me understand why I was chronically ill. And so there's a great help for you. Yeah, oh, burnout. Yeah. But that's important for us to grieve that, to get to the other side where we can come to a place where we can realize now I get to design my life with an understanding of who I am, what my strengths are, what my support needs are, so that I can live with more balance and more well-being. Help me understand how you managed all those years only to be told that you have extreme executive dysfunction. I wish I could tell you. Will you like McGiver and Lice the entire time? It was like survival mode, 365, 24/7. But I have to also acknowledge that my diagnosis, my ability to cope and to self-support shifted when I shifted into menopause. And so there is an astrogen component to ADHD and autism for women. And when in parimenopause you start to notice more meltdowns, less ability to cope with stress, less energy, chronic fatigue, like all of these things to start popping up. And then when you hit menopause, you fall off the cliff. And so my capacity now is different than when I was raising my kids. As we change in terms of our age, any hormonal changes, and first and foremost, our increased clarity. Right, there's wisdom too, right? And for anyone who's self-reflective, over the years, you build upon how you observe yourself and how you try new things to fill your own growth gaps. But young women also, I just want to mention, in their cycles also feel this dip in astrogen. And some of the at least one week out of the cycle, they have increased symptoms. Their traits are elevated because the lack of astrogen to help mitigate cortisol, produce dopamine, help with serotonin as well. And so you're not crazy. You're not crazy. We just don't understand yet fully. The interaction between our hormonal as people in our neurotypes. One question comes up is how do the partners of women with Audi HD, the autism or ADHD, may support your partner when they're going through these increased periods of dysregulation? Does it don't imagine you're going to be the friend list all the time? Yeah, I mean, when your stress is dialed up to level 10 and your sensory sensitivities, make smaller things, feel overwhelming, that's a tough place to be. But if we understand our neurotype, then we can understand new ways of communicating, I'm at this particular threshold before we get to an emergency or urgent place. And that was not something that I understood for a long time. Why do I need to hermit right now? Why can't I do anything right now? I was able to do all of this last week now this week. You know, why do I feel like I can't even get out of bed? Why am I in constant pain and inflammation? So that self understanding piece is so important so that we can co-create structures that work in the family unit, that work in relationships. When I make new friends, I disclose at the beginning, you know, as a friend, I might disappear sometimes as an ADHD friend, and it doesn't mean I don't like you anymore. It means that I'm focused on what's in front of me and my energy fluctuates. Right? And also, I need to hear you tell me more directly and clearly, like what your feelings are, you know, what your thoughts are about our relationship. So we have to have open and honest conversations. Right? And so as we understand ourselves, we can co-create structures that create more compassionate understanding all around. In my mind of that. So, how do you structure your life now? You have the freedom to adapt it, modify it, time out whatever word you want to use. So what does it look like? Well, one thing is I am very present in my nervous system now. Before I knew, and when I was in the work world, I was just push, push, push, push. This is what my colleagues can do. When they say you got to give 100%, I was given 110%, but in our typical people don't give 110%. Like that means something different to them, right? They have something called balance. What is that of seeing more of their visits talking about? And so I am very attuned to my nervous system now. And I'm listening for cues of when I need rest, of when I need support and tasks switching, when I need nutrition, keeping myself hydrated, whereas I wasn't as embodied or entuned before. It's really easy to live outside of our bodies as autistic and ADHDers. And not be entuned with the signals in our bodies telling us you're hungry now. And if you wait five more hours to eat, then you're going to be hungry and you're going to have a meltdown. Well, spend so much time in survival mode and that hypervigilance of what's going to touch me, what's going to be too loud, what's going to bore the heck out of me, that all our attention's out here, like you said. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that's a number one key. But also I work from home so I control my environment. Communication is very is clear, direct, respectful and kind, which is how I receive and provide communication. And so that structures a lot of our work. My company, everybody who works for me, we're all over the United States, sometimes Canada, Mexico. I have someone over in Europe. And so we work when our brains are at their best, rather than a clock or a seat time. So we work against milestones and projects and hold each other accountable to our commitments. But it's not about hours, it's not about seat time work. And that produces the most wholesome and creative environment that I've ever been a before. Are you ever going to write about your business model and business culture, because things like that can be so outside the thinking of people that think corporate life needs to be militant. What is the goal of that? I mean, to, you know, my paradigm breaking brain. It looks like a mechanism of control, rather than cultivating innovation, cultivating creativity and problem solving. And who doesn't need some creative problem solving with all the change that's happening in the world right now. But these rigid structures don't facilitate that. So yeah, absolutely. I have given that some thought and I'm taking some notes around that so I can help other people think about their business differently thinking about how they team differently. When people say walk it off, what they're basically saying is don't make an effort to increase the fit between you and the situation. When I was in high school, I was a student trainer, so I helped with the injuries. And there was one day I saw, you know, it was a softballer took a heavy slide into base and was limping. And the coach just said, okay, good job, walk it off. And I saw the look on this girl's face like, you know, she wanted to say some colorful language. But what she was maybe looking for was some validation. As opposed to some minimization or being dismissive. And make a lot of people think they're teaching one lesson when they're actually teaching self neglect. Right. Oh, man. There's time for both, right? There's time for first of your ends and pushing through it. It's time for stop and recognize and give yourself some self compassion. And maybe as leaders, parents, managers, coaches, we model that too. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think we have a crisis of a lack of emotional at humid and just acknowledging that we are emotional beings. That feelings are valid that our emotions are data. They help us understand our experience. And people are raised to deny suppress or even be afraid of their emotions. And yeah, if we could only allow ourselves to be the beautiful and perfection that we already are, what a different world would be in? The more folks like us learned to unmask, the more we can model for the rest of population, like it is safe to step out. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, speaking of unmasking, there was a book that you mentioned that you really liked. Yeah. Yeah. Devon Price's unmasking autism was absolutely mind blowing for me as I was in that self discovery period. I read that book and I was like, Devon, are you talking to me personally? Like individually? Did you write this just for me? Because I resonated so deeply with their experience and how they conveyed their own self discovery and diagnosis and the types of support structures that have been wholesome and that they recommend for others who are coming into discovery. And I also realized some of those structures I've already hardwired into my business into how I structure my day. I didn't know I was doing that, but I was supporting myself through just like choosing those structures because they felt more aligned and attuned to my nervous system. And you know, around that self discovery period, that book as well as just watching other people who have autism ADHD or ADHD, which is a unique experience than just autism or ADHD. Talk about their experience. Talk about how the criteria affect them internally, rather than that observed behavior that assessors are looking for because the internal experience is very different than how the DSM five describes. The DSM doesn't even get into the internal experience. Not at all. And one way that professionals could get past the masking to see is this masking I'm seeing is to understand more about that. And the internal experience because we can be masking and be a tornado inside. Absolutely. Absolutely. And do you think we're doing that during assessment? Yeah, we've got to be one of the priorities to think well of us. It's like we were taught some fewer kids. Please mom, please the teacher. Don't get said in the principal's office. Right. Right. When I first encountered the autistic criteria, I was like, oh, that can't be me because one of the key things that assessors look for is literalism, right? Not understanding humor or sarcasm or metaphor. And like, I was an English major. I know I know what all that is. But not realizing the internal experience of that is when I choose words, I mean them. Literally, right? I'm very precise in my word choice. And so the internal experience of even that, you know, one, create, you know, trait that is often a callback to autism, that literalism doesn't mean what neurotypical people are observers think it means. And so the diagnosis doesn't hang on one criteria. No, it doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't. Somebody who misunderstands that, like when they say, well, you met eye contact, though what I could be making eye contact and thinking of completely different than you. Right. And I've heard repeatedly of people going for assessment and their assessor saying, well, you understand humor. You made eye contact. You understood, you know, the metaphor as I was using, therefore you cannot be, you know, autistic. You cannot, you know, and I was like, well, let's have a conversation about that because that's not what that means. That's not what that criteria means. And so there is both internal and external misunderstanding, but Devon really lays out the criteria in a way that resonates with a person's experience and how we see and interact with the world differently. And that was profound for me. Well, his book has been on my list for a while. I'm going to have to move it up in the ranks. Yeah. I've heard just glowing reviews of it. So, do you have a book in the works? I am working on material that will become a book at some point. I do a lot of article block writing right now. And I do, I create a lot of instructional material. I speak at conferences and to, you know, teams and things like that. And so ultimately that body of work will become a book. But right now it's more in small bite size form that's more readily available. Wow, that's how I write. Is it? Yeah, I said, my writing is chunky. I write down a sentence and then there's a paragraph over here and then an entire article. And I worry more about getting the information out and then worrying after, okay, what pieces fit together and what transitions are needed and stuff. And that, I try to write and start to finish. I quit after the first paragraph. Right. That's not how my brain works either. And I want it to be meaningful too, right? And so it's a great way to test material and test ideas to make sure I'm coming in at a spot where people are in their understanding, but also ready to take action. And so because I, one of, you know, I, I was a professor in a previous life in my career. It was an instructor of communication studies and sometimes I come off professory and, and so I have to really be attuning to who I want to draw into this conversation so that we're not just raising awareness, but we're taking action toward greater neuroinclusion. One thing I want to highlight that you alluded to earlier was the importance of curiosity. Because when somebody first gets the diagnosis, depending on how they respond, they could begin beating themselves that more mercilessly. I knew I was, I knew I was stupid and what but when you were talking about getting to know what it means for you, getting to know yourself, then you lead with questions like, hmm, I wonder how this relates to me as opposed to, I wonder if this is what's wrong with me. I wonder if this is wrong with me too. When you watch other people, wonder, hmm, why do they do that? Wonder what's the purpose of this thing? So you become an anthropologist. Yes, yes, I like that as a lens. And the problem is one of my special interests too. I get on giddy over studying biology. All right. That's fascinating deal. How did you design this thing? And when did you agree upon this? You know, I'm always really interested in the rules and collierregionated. I love that. Yeah, my anthropology piece is communications when I was an instructor, as an instructor of communication studies. And I've been an observer of communication my whole life and wonder why? Because I was trying to figure out how people communicate. But that curiosity is so key because it's really important for neurodivergent folks to understand that you're not broken. That variance is normal, natural, and expected in biological beings. And even though our society was not constructed with our particular way of being in mind, everything that we encounter, all of these norms, all of these structures and systems, procedures, policies are man made. They're people made, which means we can remake them and we can co-create a world that works for everyone. And so that curiosity is important for neurodivergent folks to understand themselves and how to navigate the world. But it's also really, really important for neuro-typical folks because it's not just the job of neurodivergent folks to bridge the gaps. It's everybody at the table. And so that means neuro-typical people have to be curious about how do I communicate better with neurodivergent folks? How do I create structures that support their brilliance and their way of being? What does it look like to problem solve together? What does it look like for me to not take offense by someone asking lots and lots of clarifying questions? You took the words right on my mouth. I was waiting for that opportunity. We want, we don't want people to make assumptions about us. We want them to ask the questions because when they assume is when all the stereotypes kick in. So when they can fall their curiosity and say, you know, I'm just curious about something you said the way you said it or this expression you made, I just want to check in to see if my understanding about that is correct as opposed to, well, that was rude. I really hate when she does that. Right, right. That curiosity is such a great communication behavior in relationship, whether that's colleague, student, instructor, partners, parents, and children. It's really, really important because we can't see the insides of people. We need to ask good questions. And this is something that I ask my instructors and associations I work with anyone who has a evaluation instrument on a learning program when they get paragraphs and paragraphs of feedback that kind of trigger them, make them feel like I put all of this hard work into this program and this person just like, torment is shreds is to instead of like feel that defensiveness, but set that aside and ask some questions. Like this person, even though they're having some feelings about what happened at this event or in this course, took the time to tell me about their experience. Instead of just, you know, walking away, disgruntled and telling, like everybody else, what a terrible experience it was. And that gives me an opportunity to see a new experience and to modify how I've prepared this program for future people who are like this. Because it can feel personal when we create learning programs for other people, when we create anything for other people to to user to consume. And that feedback is going to have some feelings because people who are disadvantaged are going to have feelings. But if we're curious, what an opportunity we have to ask questions to reach out, to think about new ways of doing things that are more inclusive for everyone. So not only self-compassion, but compassion for everyone else was making an effort. Absolutely. Yeah. So are there any final dynamite thoughts or recommendations that you have for people that were in your situation, or maybe even they suspect they may have won or both of these diagnoses? I would say watch videos of neurodivergent creators. Listen to them talk about their experience. There are free assessments online to just explore. Does this feel like me or not feel like me? They're not validated instruments, but they will point you in a direction of what you want to explore next. Definitely pick up books like Devon Price's books on on masking autism, Ladmila Preslova wrote a book last year. Let's call again. The Canary Code, which centers the conversation in corporate life. So in the work world, there's fewer resources for adults. And there's so many people who are coming into awareness of their neurodivergence in adult life. And so those are a couple of really great ones. So, you know, whether, you know, whatever kind of media you like to interact with. But also, as you come into that discovery and maybe your parent or your partner who's had like some rough times in a relationship, it's easy to slip into feeling guilty about ways that you've been before when you didn't understand yourself. It's easy to slip into shame around it. And I would just encourage you to find support around processing those feelings because you are not broken. You didn't know. And now you do. And as the that ever wise, Tony Morrison says, when we know better, we can do better. Amen to that. Well, thank you so much, my friend or potential 20th cousin and my king colleague. Yeah. I'm not in the room or whatever. This has been great. I'm so grateful that you're out there doing this work because there needs to be, I want to see a revolution. evolution in corporate thinking. Yes. And in spite of our current administration's priorities, inclusive type of thinking is an important element because if it's not cultural or neurodiversity, it's at least different to ideas. Yeah. And finding a way to let everything rise to the top instead of just letting our egos drive the car. So. Right. Right. And we, I mean, the world is for everyone. Let's make it so. I can see us talking again at some point. Let's do it. Yeah. All right. Take care everybody.