Developing the Community and Taking Your Salsa To That Next Level

Yeah, right. It's cool. It's totally fine filming from the ghetto Of a penthouse and Southpeak Such a ghetto. Yeah, we have our different problems here in the high rise, you know up a upperclass citizen shit Wouldn't know about it. They're very down on the streets. I'm full of shit. I'm from sunshine I'm from Perth, so I mean I can want to give we do not fit in here I'm wearing you know added-ass hoodies and gangster shit you fit in here more than I do. Yeah, that's just because of the way I dress Now, but I was always really keen to do it because you know even five six years ago the scene was very different from what it is now It's still really exciting, but I feel like Salsa's always been very much behind the curve in terms of how well it Adjusts for what's going on with the mainstream media like TikTok. There's not many salsa dancers on TikTok But that's one of the most widely used platforms. Do you find it's lacking compared to any other Dances in Melbourne specifically or is do you think it's just a thing with dancing? I think it's just a thing with dancing because also TikToks more and It's more entertainment click-bady stuff and I think most people in Salsa are other dance styles what they're doing. It's Like they're producing content that's serious to them and I think like I view TikTok as a bit more as a For fun thing as opposed to a serious platform to post stuff like that. With every hobby It's like a multi-sided dice, you know you can have ballet dancers make fun of themselves. You can have D&D players make fun of themselves You know what I mean like there's room for humor With any I guess meme format that comes through for any any style of dance Yeah, that definitely is but I mean you think about dancing a lot of people I mean you've said that a lot of people in the dancing scene There are a lot of odd balls in it like there are a lot of different people like different personalities different styles and a lot of people do it It is something to that a lot of people feel self conscious about like me personally. I do feel self conscious so I for Like TikTok where it's a platform for entertainment. I don't really view what I put out there as funny Type entertainment. I view it a serious entertainment But you could you could make funny dance content for TikTok if you want it Yeah, but who wants to make fun of themselves for something that they're already possibly very self conscious about what's not true about that for any other hobby? Touche Touche Can I drop this microphone? No, that's fine. I find if there's anything else you could possibly drop it like it's hot drop perfect No, I hate this phone. I have sign effects. I'm gonna cut this out for you. Just say no That's unnecessary Finally people can laugh at my jokes I have that lined up. So if you at own moment you really wanted to put in something I could I wouldn't recommend it, but it's an option. Thank you Thank you very much. I think we're sufficiently warmed up I'm just gonna keep that in I'm gonna do it as like I find this is a neat little precursor into actually starting the opposite episode off a bit more officially, but hey nice little teaser into what we're gonna talk about more Love it. Obviously you can hear from the passion in Jason's voice about the scene. It'll be it's gonna be a good episode I'm really excited a lot of stuff that I want to share with people and a lot of stuff that a lot of these questions are in a way stuff I've talked to people about and I'm not in in my circle of dancing I'm almost like the more experienced person just because the time that I've been here and it's crazy to me because even though I've been there for a year or two longer than a lot of the people I hang out with and dance with I don't have anywhere near enough Experience of the social scene or what's changed of a time? So I'm getting asked these questions like hey, how and what do you think about that See, you know, what do you think about this place or what do you think about this dance? I should I do on two and I'm like I know I've been here for a while, but I'm not the person to answer these questions So it's one of those hobbies where at every stage and there's an unlimited number of stages You'll always be the person that knows that feels like you know a lot, but ultimately no the least Yeah, you know, it's such a deep Diverse pool of information of styles and passions and so on that like it's honestly never ending which is I think one of the main reasons why people fall in love with it and continue on with it But it kind of requires the right breadcrumb to lead them to that place. Awesome. I agree. I would yeah And you could you know, we're not we're not there in the conversation yet, but You could take a look at the different scenes in the world and then you could easily see how well does that culture or does that country And body that like how easy is it for some of the photos breadcrums of salsa? Yeah, you know how easy is it for you to learn about on two If you learn about after a Cuban feel to learn about performing and so on in the history of salsa and how healthy are those aspects in the scene but yeah, say that later Yeah, very interesting stuff right Welcome back to embracing the life of dance. I'm already halfway through the podcast for a few minutes then but here's the intro in case you were waiting for it So this is a podcast all about a dancer's journey the challenges we face and our growth along the way all the while hopefully shares a unique experiences and inspiring you the listener to take that next step and as I like to say embrace everything that life has to Of well and embrace everything that dance has to offer on a deep level today's Yes, I love it Jason and Amy currently my salsa three teachers And people I've been looking up to for the last year or so that they've been teaching me as Just inspiration and motivation to push myself to a higher level and hopefully As you guys listen to the podcast and meet them in person and join the classes or see them around hopefully do the same to you Thanks for having being on board guys. Thanks for having us, mate. Happy to be here. Yeah, awesome to be here Yeah, um, do we should we talk about how we've met or where we've kind of all kind of cross parts initially? Yeah, sure It'll be interesting. I don't know if you remember when we first met. I think I want to say it was at a social but I think when I actually saw you and talked to you would have been the first class for level three last year Block turns no something like that anyway, it was like June I want to say like around this time last year would have been when I officially met Jason and saw him dance and went ah shit Yeah, it's I don't know from meeting you in the first place um, I guess Recognizing the students in the class that are really passionate and that are really committed as well You can kind of reflect on your own dance journey as well. So when when you were that person I remember being very keen at the front of the class. I may not have been the best But I was asking all the questions and I think it's it's one thing that teaches lovers sharing their passion for for dancing So a good question in the middle of class is always something you remember And I think you asked a couple of questions. So I'm like I took notice and I'm like this guy You know, he's one of the people that if the scene traits in writing if he wants to be he can definitely move up through Through the scene in the industry. Oh Very flattering. I got a better impact Something noticeable um, Amy's a bit different because I think I only I knew you were part of the crew like 2019 when I first started I either seen you around or I'd seen some of the dancers that did with the Chata Mafia Maybe I think or yes, like way early back then I saw some of those videos and then I think I actually heard you talk and listen to the way you teach and stuff throughout lockdown when you did a couple of those Was the salsa's shines class video over zoom? Yeah, there are a few online classes that we did for the students Just to help keep up engagement keep in touch with people um, I think it was That was probably my first step into teaching other than um Teaching private lessons. Um, it wasn't until after COVID and things opened up That's when because I think you would have joined been part of the crew Shortly before all the lockdowns after right after lockdown. Oh, yeah Um, so yeah, so I joined before and it'd been part of crew for quite a while So I think that's kind of why we hadn't crossed paths too much until Things that opened up I then started Emerging into more of a teaching role and being into a position where I'm in front of people actually getting to meet more people Um, because I am such an Introverted character. I'd like to care to myself So I mean, I still I go to um the salsa foundation and I see people and I'm like, oh, you're crew Um, you must be new here and they're like no, I've been here for months. I'm like, I'm just I'm quiet I just don't speak to people sorry Happens. Yeah, like depending on what days you're in depending on what times and who you interact with I feel like a lot of people get missed then what people when I started I was like, oh these guys are actually crew instead of just Yeah, people who are hanging around just chatting or it's like that a lot There's so many of us and then we're all there on different days with different things that we're committed to and different projects So it's like there'll be people in the same journey as you going at the same time But just pursuing something totally different and you don't even sometimes you don't cross paths sometimes you do Yeah, it's really interesting like I guess coming through a different pathway other than TSS That's generally not the norm um typically And unfortunately Dance classes are pretty small these days in Melbourne. There's a lot a lot of them But it's not there's not a lot of schools that have such a big community Which is one of the amazing things about TSS But that's actually not the the normal experience. I guess For me at least I was part of a small studio when I first started and you knew everyone that was part of that studio There was maybe two max three nights a week that they were teaching but you were there for all nights that that studio could offer So yeah Studios are a lot more insular um so you knew everyone from other studios as well Um the same as you could argue a little bit tighter, but also smaller at the same time. Yeah. I think that's a really nice little segue because I, one of the things that I don't know much about both of you is how you guys actually started. I think a lot of people will be curious to hear about those initial steps because a lot of people who are listening are at those initial steps and want to relate and get to know more about what steps you took when you started. So you want to start. Yeah. Well, I got into, you just mean the social dancing in general. Yeah, initially what drew you in? Were you doing a specific dance or how did you get involved in the first place? I actually, I always wanted to do partner dancing, even when I was a kid growing up. There's something I always wanted to do, but I always did just solo dancing, like contemporary hip hop a few little bits and pieces. It wasn't until I actually moved to Melbourne and then moved to Port Melbourne. So I was really close to the city that I was like, I want to meet some people. I want to find a way to hang out with some people after work, like I just don't know. When you're in, like I've moved into state a few times, it's really hard once you leave those friendship groups from high school and from university. It's so hard to find a new crowd because everyone kind of sticks within the same groups that they've grown up with. And so for me, it was kind of, it was initially a search of, I just wanted to learn part of dancing, so I'll pursue that, but in the meantime, my goal was actually just to meet people and try and find some people with common interests. So that's how I ended up at the Salsa Foundation and got into it was very heavily invested from day one. Within the first couple of months, I was already going out social dancing about five, six, seven nights a week, like I just dove right into it. And then I think a few months after that, I ended up agreeing to do a competition, which was a very big investment in commitment. And at the time when I was asked, I was just like, "Starry, I hate, I love social dancing, sure I'll do it." I did not research into what exactly involves the cost, the actual pressure of what it is. I was just like, "Sure, I love this, it's great, like let's do it." And that's kind of what just fast tracked me down with social dancing. Because I just, I loved it, was driven with passion, was driven with getting to spend time with people and meet people. And yeah, that's. If you could pick one thing that drives you the most right now, like one aspect of dancing, whether it's social, competing, teaching, what would you say is like, if you could really like pick one, that's like, this is like a bit heavier-sided than you though. I probably, it's a torn. I haven't had much opportunity to perform because we've just every opportunity that came up for performances, we've been being in Melbourne, we've had lockdowns that just kept cancelling or postponing things, which was frustrating. So performances are a big one for me, but actually teaching, I think, is probably the bigger driver, because it's one of those things where I'm really passionate about social and dancing it and learning it. And so meeting other people that share that same drive of wanting to learn it is really exciting. And like Jason said before, when we're teaching classes, like, we actually love it when people ask questions in our classes. Because it just shows so much engagement and excitement from the students. And it excites us more because it goes hang on a second, these guys are liking this, they want to learn more of this. And straight after class, whenever we're walking home from the studio, we're already debriefing and going, what can we do with that? What can we add more of that for next week? And how can we kind of take these boxes for the students and make sure that we are getting that engagement still? So yeah, I think that's teaching and performing. I think that's like the one interesting thing I noticed is I thought I was being crazy because I'd walk home or take the train with Talino or Dave who were friends who lived very close to me. And we just debrief about classes or just keep talking about it even though we've left and we've been doing it for four hours and it's just a conversation with an end and I'm like, yeah, I'm hooked. It's crazy. I just haven't felt like this with anything else. I just like, it was instantly just like, I can't stop talking about it, I can't stop thinking about it. So it's one of those special things that just draws us in instantly. Yeah, definitely. Well, Jason, how did you, where would you say you started dancing? For me, I guess I started because I wanted to try and get a girlfriend. Related to vote. I'm not going to lie. Probably the most honest answer you'll get on this podcast. No, I've actually already said that. I'm not on my previous episode. Yeah. So relatable, I'd say. Yeah, so I was in university, typically very outgoing person, but I'm also a little bit nerdy as well. So I like things that are complicated, things that have a good amount of depth to them. But the real reason is that my housemate at one point said, hey, I'm going to go to a salsa class, come with, and I went with. And I was hooked pretty quickly because I'm also incredibly competitive. And as good as I felt, which wasn't great, I looked around the room and realized that I wasn't the best, and I made it my mission to be the best. So that kind of drove me to keep going. But the real drive initially was I wanted to try and get a girlfriend and get a girlfriend I did. It was a very big appeal in the uni days, being able to dance. But that's certainly that was probably a superficial driver initially, lasted maybe like one to two months. OK. Beyond that, it was pure passion. I'm into it sort of taking my, like all those boxes in terms of artistic in terms of like how complicated it is, how interesting it is, and then it's also very fit as well. You meet people. So it's just such a multifaceted and layered hobby that there's so much to fall in love with. So I think anyone that's done salsa has kind of bored their friends or family to death about talking about classes or what they learn and so on. And no one understands it until they try it. And they're like, oh wow, cool. I get it now. It's not as superficial as I think. Have you tried getting family to dance or has that gone for you? Yeah, I'll always teach anyone to dance. Yeah. In fact, today when we're waiting in line to vote, I was half tempted to teach people that were waiting in line to dance because we're going to be there for a couple of hours. So I could have given them some good material. No, but in terms of family, I come from a, not a traditional, but a pretty reserved, fuzzy background you could say. So dancing is not really something that anyone in my bloodline would be quick to do, aside from me, of course. How's it on your end, Amy? Dance is in the family or not? No, dance is in the family. Definitely no, dance is in the family. No, I've kind of always been the, probably the more creative one of the bunch in my family, which is fine with me. I love to pursue it. I think my, my family's supportive of it. They watch it, they like, they see what we do, what we teach together. I jokingly try and get my mom into it and was trying to give it online lessons during co-fist. But yeah, it's just not something that I'll ever really get into because it's never been an excitement for them, really. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I think I'm on the other side of that where my family's dancers, my mom and my sister, especially a huge dancer, we've had Indian dancing. Forever, we used to perform little choreos and stuff. I've always been doing it. But it's never been part of the dancing and just something about salsa and vichana, I just can't get them on board. I remember one of your classes I was in lockdown, I had my sister hanging out with me. So I'm like, all right, come join me. And then she was like 20 seconds and she was like, I hate this. I'm like, how do you hate it? It's like, what do you mean you don't like it? You like dancing, so you should like this automatically. It's interesting. I think a lot of people view dancing as self-expression. And so being in a partner dance, you're kind of submitting to the expression that the other person dictates. So a lot of people, they don't love that idea. Or they don't love that feeling if traditionally they've been able to express themselves in a very solid capacity. In a bit of my experience, I once asked my teacher at the time, why don't we just get commercial dancers that do jazz and ballet and teach them salsa? And his answer was, why would we get people that have dedicated their lives to dancing by themselves to do a partner dance? It just doesn't quite make sense, right? So I think there's a very big reason for that, that some people like to dance by themselves, but other people like partner dancing for different reasons. Frozen comes sort of thing. Yeah. Well, speaking of dancing for different reasons, I love this. It's almost like you read the script and you're kind of setting me up for my next follow-up question. It's fantastic. It's been. You're welcome. Can I ask for a better guest? Well, naturally, I'm always curious. What are you. where are you sitting with dancing right now? What was initially kind of drawing you in? You've mentioned a little bit, Jason, about how we kind of grew into a passion from beyond just being about social reasons. But where are you kind of sitting right now? How would you say dancing plays a role in your life? It's a good question. It's always going to be a very loaded and complicated question, because as we all know, when dance isn't your primary job or anything like that, you know, life does protect precedence. Yeah. And I've gone through a lot of different phases of my life where dancing has been more or less degrees of important. It's been the reason that I've dropped out of uni at particular points, you know, and not a smart decision, by the way, just for the record. No, I'm not recommending it. No, no. At least not for the reasons and circumstances under which I did it. Okay. But, yeah, so it always differs. I'm at a point now in my life where I've got a reasonable amount of stability and success in pretty much every area of my life. So for me, it's kind of chasing down that last little 10, 15% that I wasn't able to achieve with dancing. Sorry. For me, it's. that's quite, I guess, a bit of an artistic endeavor overall. And it's not about me being an artist specifically, that's one of the pathways there. The other pathways to take other people to that area. So for me, it's like, I see just so much potential for Australia, I love dancing so much. And I've kind of, I got a standard that I haven't been able to achieve myself yet. So for me, it's like, I wanna try and push through that standard or our end or take someone else to that, that's standard, whether it be a student or a dance partner or a team or whatever it might be. So for me, that's the thread that I'm continuing to pull on. - Do you have current people that you look at videos or people either in Melbourne or internationally that you go, like, there's my standard or there's what's pushing you? - Well, yeah. I think everyone has their heroes. And it's interesting for me because I guess growing up, I didn't have any heroes or role models. So to say that I have a dance role model, I don't specifically, I have people that are the epitome of what I want to do and what I want to achieve. Those that know me quite well will get a bit of a laugh out of this, but Ernesto and Denise of the dance couple that, I guess four to five years ago, kind of re-sparked my interest in it. I was at a point where I was like pretty burnt out and I was, I guess, a little bit jaded at the scene. I wasn't really inspired by very much. Then I saw them and that kind of really reignited the passion. So a lot, pretty much 90% of my motivation comes from looking at the standard they've set and maybe like, I want to accomplish something like that one day. - Nice. Yeah. I think one of the things I find lacking that I haven't been doing that I want to do more is look at the dances that are going to inspire me and try and look for those heroes. I know you don't quite seek them out specifically, but I feel like it's nice. I don't know, you guys would both have your opinion on, I think it's important to find people who are going to inspire you, people who are working at a higher level and are setting those standards. So you've mentioned Anesto and Denise. - Denise. - Denise, anyone else? So you guys both between you feel like people should know about that you want to share? It's kind of like promotion of someone else, but like I think it's nice to share. - Look, it's a long list. For me, it's a lot of people that really helped, I guess, do what in my opinion was redefine some of the high standards of the world. So New York movement was Anesto and Denise's team comprised of other professionals. So I'd point in that direction. Yamalai Dance Company, again, have been doing it suddenly for 10, 15 years. Always top tier performance is one of the highest regarded teams in the world. So Yamalai is definitely worth looking at. From a partner work perspective, you have Marco Ferrinho, Panagoras from Greece as well. Like there's a lot of really top tier talent and there's more and more coming through as well. But these are probably some of the broke crumbs that I personally follow and have followed for a couple of years. - Oh yeah. Who are you looking at, Amy? - Yeah, I agree. I think most of mine are, they're all basically the same as yours. I probably follow a lot more, not necessarily solo female artists, but I pay attention more to their solo work. Just as a follow, it's nice to try and get some inspiration on how to style things up for social dancing or performing. So yeah, don't really have any extra names to add to what you've got. I think it's just, in general, if you're looking for inspiration, I think the more the better. I think it's better to just give yourself as much exposure as possible because something you can find is try as many styles as you can because not necessarily everything will fit. - Yeah. - Like not every shoe will fit. But it's good to try it, see how it works for you. And then something that I've tried, especially with shines, is I've tried other lady styling and things that I like. I keep things that I don't. I've tried it, given it my best shot. I don't really like it for me or it doesn't feel natural. I just don't use it and I move on from there. But it does help you develop your own sense of style as well. So the more exposure, the better, the more people you follow and you look at, the better. - The real challenging thing is that in Australia, we are very, very isolated from the rest of the world. - Right. - Is it here in the-- - Is it here in the-- - Is it here in the-- - Is it in the distance thing, you think, guys? - Yeah, so, I mean, the cost of getting international artists to Australia is incredibly high. So the likelihood of that is lower. And so that makes it really challenging to inject the scene with fresh inspiration because you don't have nearly the same variety of professionals coming through and showing what the top of the ceiling is. So that inspiration, instead of it coming to you, in a sense, and you're just having to rock up to a local festival and being there, you now need to actively go out and seek that. And if someone doesn't really know much about what festivals are running and who's big, where do you start? - Yeah. - So if you live in Europe, if you live in the States and so on, or even South America, there's so many more dancers. And so the number of really top-tier dancers is greater. So it's a lot easier for you to come into contact with those people that will inspire you. And I think that's probably one of the things that we're missing in Australia. - Yeah. I think I had that discovery recently because, I don't know if this is an important part of my journey right now, but I've been trying to prioritize and think about what-- nice try. [LAUGHTER] - I just try to know if it's not under the table. - He really tried. I appreciate it. [LAUGHTER] - One of the things that is drawing my attention right now is exploring the possibility of festivals and what kind of actual bigger events in Congress is happening in Australia. And I just realized, usually in the last two years that I've come out of COVID, I would always just fly under the radar and miss them completely. All right, here's someone talking about it. And go, yeah, that's cool. All right, nice. And now I'm actually considering signing up to them. Do you have-- not recommendation for specific events, but how do you feel about doing those festivals, getting into them in the first place? - I think it's tricky, because it depends on what your priorities are. - OK. - Right? So again, I think Australia needs a lot of support in terms of developing the scene. So a lot of my vote would go for supporting as many local events as you can, because that helps, obviously, fund the events that can bring the artists, which helps you fulfill that long term. But not everyone is made of money and can afford to fly to every single state, do every single festival and so on. So to that point, I would try and think a little bit deeper about which festival is going to do the things you're very interested in. Find that niche that really drives you. Is it hardcore number? Is it just kind of salsa or on-sue? Is it patchata? Is it patchata sense well? And try to find the events that most correctly align with what you're looking for a long term in your opinion for the scene. What do you need? Do you want a lot of local artists to be propped up? Do you think we should be backing our own artists a lot more? Do you think we should support a bigger industry or a bigger festival so that we could bring maybe two big names down? And that would be really well for the scene. So it's a highly personal decision, depending what your goals are. I agree, definitely. It really is about what's important to you, because every festival's going to be a little bit different with what they focus on, the kind of workshops that they cater to. And so you really need to look at what they're going to offer and what you want to get from it. So I think especially at the moment, there's a lot of patchata heavy festivals. So that's one thing that I'm finding hard is it's like, I really, really want to get to a festival this year. And I do have a couple in mind. But my focus is more if I'm going to go to a festival. I want to go to one where I know they're going to have a dedicated large salsa room and a good number of salsa dancers there. So as much as I'm like, oh, I just want to go to a festival. There's no point me spending the money on flights, accommodation, tickets, and all that to go to a festival where I know it's not going to quite tick that box for me, which is focusing on salsa. So that's where it's a little bit hard. But that's where it's really good to look into what festivals are out there. Have a look at when they are, when they're scheduled, what they generally can offer you in terms of workshops and performances or competition opportunities and then decide from there. Because it's, again, it's not a one size fits all approach. And to give a bit of perspective on how it was six, seven, eight years ago, each state used to have its own Congress. And at each state, you would have a different international line down. So if you went to two to three different festivals in a year, you would get exposed to two to three different international artists at the minimum. These days, not every state can afford to necessarily do that. Melbourne Latin festivals used to be a really big one, that all of Australia, the healthy scenes, really contributed to-- that's no longer around. So at least Melbourne has had a bit of a hit in recent years in terms of just our ability to support these bigger socials. And it's slowly coming back. But these days, there are fewer socials that would do that compared to what there was five, six years ago. And that, in my opinion, is part of the reason why. It's a little bit harder to find those people that inspire, because it's just not as many international as being flown in. And obviously, COVID has a very big impact on our ability to do that from a financial perspective and also just a cultural perspective as well. But yeah, you're speaking off like international artists and finding people. I know one of the things a lot of my friends we share and send to each other are those. Instagram Reels, I like the social feeds, are like demo from Bichara-- not from Bichara, but from a workshop class that happens at festivals. Do you find there's much of a difference connecting and feeling inspired, seeing videos versus seeing them in person? Yeah, I mean, I think when someone gets to follow along with their favorite international law, even just a really big star, it kind of impales them more than if they did it in the comfort of the world. their own home. So I think that person's way more likely to feel that burn of, "Hey, maybe I could take it to the next level." And then maybe that makes them invest in another festival versus seeing stuff online. You're a lot less likely to do it. Like I've seen countless patterns on Instagram, on YouTube and so on that I've been like, "Wow, that's absolutely amazing. I'd love to do that." And then life happens. So definitely going. Yeah, well, it's like if you, every video you see, you're not going to do it, but every workshop you do, you're going to do that pattern. And the more you do that type of thing, the more likely you are to do it again. And the more likely you are to see yourself as something different than what you have prior to doing. I imagine it's pretty similar for you seeing and practicing and interacting with the artists who come overseas to follow their styling. Yeah, I think it's not just about interacting with them. It's also, it's like just doing classes online at home versus doing a class at the studio with other people. Like you just get that vibe and that interaction from the entire class. So even for festivals, you just get this excitement from everyone buzzing about, "We're out of festival, we're learning something and there's cool artists in the room." So it's just the atmosphere is totally different and that's kind of what drives it as opposed to when you're at home. It's not the same. Like it's more dependent on the individual's motivation as opposed to the atmosphere of the room being able to drive you to push yourself. Yeah, the analogy I'd give is if you go and see the ballet in person versus if you streamed it online, does it feel different? Very much so. The atmosphere is completely different. Exactly. It's the same thing with dancing, whether you're part of it or viewing it. Everything is too much difference. Before I get into the nitty gritty, I think with both of you guys, when would you say you started dancing Amy? If you would have put a time in? I started. It was like the very end of 2018ish. And straight into salsa and stuff? Yeah, I started with salsa and then a month later started with bachata because one of, within the group of friends that I kind of made within that salsa group, there were a few that were also doing bachata at the time. And they were like, "Try it, it's lots of fun." So that's what then got me into doing both at the same time. But then I eventually just transitioned back to salsa only. Yeah. I would just say you've had anything. Here's a big question, not really. Do you have any memorable moments that have kind of shaped your journey along the way or re-aligés and mentioned, like reignited a spark or changed your mentality if it's gone down or up at times? That's not talking about COVID too much. That was definitely memorable. I think competing was a big one. Less about the competition though because it was my first competition. But it was also my first festival. And that was our world salsa solo in Brisbane. And I think the biggest thing was I went there, got to see all these performances, some international artists, and I just left their starry-eyed like, holy shit. There's so much more I can do. I went here with a really awesome routine. Performed it, we did, myself and Vish, we did an amazing job, we felt so great with it. And I was kind of like, "Oh, this is going to be the amazing part of this experience." And then my first time at the festival was like, "No, that's not the most amazing thing." The most amazing thing is being in a massive convention centre, full of people who are equally as excited and driven and just want to push themselves, show off some awesome performances. And I left there with like, so much inspiration with music, with dancing, and just thinking about all these things I wanted to do. Like, I remember sitting on the plane right back just in my phone notes, like writing all these things, like, saving some songs that I heard that I really liked, thinking about planning my year ahead of other events that I can go to, what we can do with it. So yeah, that was something that was probably very memorable. That was kind of the first big experience that I really had with it. Yeah, well, yeah. You'd say the, yeah, so I think I'm on a similar boat. Between the actual events that I've been to, versus the training I've done, or like a specific training, like I thought not to my own horn, but I think that choreo we've been doing has been fantastic. And I've been working really hard on it, performing it tonight, just to, I guess, timestamp this podcast. This is the harmony listening back. This is the night you performed that choreo. I haven't like, I haven't like performed a choreo like this before. And I thought the big shaping part would be the learning and the training, but I think I'm kind of just excited for the night in the atmosphere and just being part of that. That'll, I think that's going to be like the big thing that's going to remember more. The feeling that you get when you walk on stage that you can't go to a studio and replicate a crowd watching you. Okay. And you can't replicate doing that routine for the first time, you know? Yeah. So yeah, it's a really big moment, so it's a really look forward to. Yeah, you just can't replicate it. You can try as much as you want, you can put as much pressure on as you want to. But yeah, those are the moments that you remember when you walk on stage for the first time of a particular routine, of a particular competition, and you stare into that audience and you're like, so the 300 people are about to watch me do my thing. And that's pretty cool. That's pretty awesome. Who knows? I might be a thousand or two thousand. Yeah, I think just interjecting my part. I guess that would be one of the big ones for me. I think I'm not to put pressure on the night, but I'm kind of just logically looking at and going, yeah, this is going to be like a big experience. How about you, Jason? Like, where would you place something memorable that's happened or changed? Well, other than, again, as mentioned, you have mentioned meeting some of your heroes and seeing their dance and being inspired back into it. So where would I place the memorable moments in my time? Yeah. And I would just say that, I do think the change of mentality was a going in one direction and kind of flipped it. I probably have more negative memories than positive to be totally honest. I don't actually love to hear them because, yeah. Well, without getting to, I think this is probably a podcast episode in itself. They're going to Japan for a, on a visa that was never agreed upon for a job that didn't exist to teach a team where I wasn't actually teaching. Essentially, the world was promised and the world was not delivered due to various communication breakdowns. So, yeah, dancing has definitely led me on a different path in my life. If I never did dancing, I can't say whether or not I'd be better or worse off, but I wouldn't change anything because whether the experience is good or bad, the things that I learned about myself were pretty amazing. And I think it's a big part of me is that I'll always try, it doesn't matter how badly it'll go. I'll try and if it screws up horribly, and my life falls to pieces, which it certainly fell to pieces, Humpty Dumpty style, and they couldn't put it back together again. I'll get back up again and I'll keep trying. So, yeah, probably too much to go into without derailing the entire episode. But, yeah, dropping out of uni, flying to a different country for things that weren't necessarily agreed upon, I was very emotionally invested in dancing, and I probably overweighted the importance of it at that stage of my life and it led me to do a few really reckless things. So, obviously, the years after that, I pulled back massively, so then I underplayed the importance of it. So, I think the big moments would be winning the nationals for a salsa on two competition, just that elevation. Stepping on stage for the first couple of times, and just seeing those really big bright lights, I've performed more times than I can remember, but coming off stage and everyone in the ranks and then your friends and family in the audience, they're congratulating on how well you did. It's kind of what you work up to. You practice really hard and you spend years and thousands of dollars on perfecting or trying to perfect what you're doing, and that's the one moment where you get to put it all out there for everyone to see. So, yeah, that's always going to be a special moment to me. Yeah, would you say, competing is one of those big ultimate things to work up for you personally, or do you think that's just a natural progression? I think earlier in my life, if you talked to me a couple of years ago, like five years ago, I probably would have said yes. But these days, I am my own biggest critic. I believe a lot in myself and what I believe in long term for the standard and what I want to see artistically. So, that's probably the thing that drives and motivates me more than anything else is just trying to reach, stand shoulder to shoulder with the peers of the industry, the titans that have literally inspired me because what I hope to do for other people is exactly what they did for me. I know we're like 40 minutes into an episode and I'm like, "Hey, we should get into the nitty-gritty or something made stuff I had planned." But, yeah, look, for anyone who haven't explained and spilled the guts already, but like, this is a big podcast for me exploring aspects and questions that I have, stuff that I'm currently feeling like I'm at my journey in and I'm definitely feeling like this people I've talked to recently who are very much in the same boat off. You're a little bit past that phase where you've fresh faced in the scene, but you also haven't explored all the opportunities, but now they're all popping up, I guess the big one for me right now is like the different genres and the different stuff I see online. So I see if anyone watches salsa videos online, you see Mumbo, you see AfroCube, you see on two verses on one and it's like a big conversation going on right now. How would you say like your priority lies in terms of picking one or what do you think is kind of shaping you more, like leaning more towards? I guess very early on I adapted to what I thought the rest of the world was doing and I've always tried to do that. So for me, I've mentioned before that my goal is more artistic and that's to stand with the shoulders of the peers that I admire. So for me, I'll always be trying to aspire to what's kind of driving the industry forward. What are the new things because if you don't grow then you'll starve. And does that matter to you between what kind of genre or aspect of salsa or variation takes or you'll just take anything on board and add it and work with it? Well, I guess you need to, it's strange when you work full-time in a regular job and then you need to start talking about yourself as though you're an artist because I haven't been working my entire life for to be a salsa dancer. So for me to say, as an I need to view myself as an artist, it's still a little bit strange. But it's true, you really do need to view yourself as an artist and that is an embodiment of who you are and the experiences you've had and the aspirations you do have moving forward. So I'll always say to people, try most things and really align yourself with what feels good naturally at that time. It may not be the thing that feels natural and good long term. So you should always be open to change because again, you need to change in order to improve. Yeah. And you don't know what form that may take. So be open to everything but just do what feels right to you and then also do the things that don't feel right to you because they may be the right thing for you at that time. Yeah. How's your journey been exploring different aspects? Maybe like, if you make it a bit specific to salsa, how's your journey been aiming for like transitioning? And I think I saw some of the stuff. Was it maxi? Was it afro-cuban? Would I be correct in saying there was some afro-cuban influence or some of the, I don't know what the correct term would be. Yeah, we do a lot of afro and afro-cuban stuff in our team routines and even in the routine that you've learned as well, there's afro in there. So, you know, I'd say at any level you can do afro, you don't need to be an advanced dancer to do that type of thing. Yeah. But what's your experience been? I mean, mine's obviously been far less diverse than Jason's. It's definitely smaller in comparison. But I started with on one and then transitioned to on two, I think that would have been because I started competing. On two is just more common for competitions. So that's how I started to learn it to begin with. And so for a long time, I was actually learning both and trying to wrap my head around both. And not really focusing on the pro or kind of either, just still in that early day stage and just wanting to learn and absorb as much as I can. I'm probably at a stage now where I want to start developing still styles of salsa like afro-cuban and all that. But I just haven't had much time to dedicate to focus on learning that because it doesn't involve a lot of body movement, just a lot of drilling and a lot of practice. So that's something where I'm reaching that point where I'm like, okay, I want to branch out more and start perfecting other areas. So yeah, that's kind of it for me. Might take this little educationally. Combined as you would, would you care to explain some of the key differences of how to define what those different genres are that are most commonly seen for salsa? Is there different styles we see? It's always the music. Okay. In a nutshell. So the music dictates the dance. So you have different, like, salsa is always an umbrella term and it's always travelled the world and I guess groups so many different sub-genre's under its wing. So yeah, the music will always dictate the dance. And so as you grow in your competency and your journey as well, like initially most people focus on the step. Yeah. Well, I'm doing my basic step, my inside turn and so on. And then they focus on making that look good, how I get my body movement right and they kind of they're oblivious to the music for the most part. So at a certain point, you need to turn your attention to what's driving you to dance in the first place. And then that in itself is probably much less aesthetically, but probably that in itself is what will drive you to explore different genres of dance. So it's always going to be the music. Yeah. So as you listen to more palladium, you know, that might spark your interest in onto as you live. palladium artist or? No, no, palladium's like a style of of mumbo. It's an era essentially where on two was kind of very, very first founded. And that's where you get the very high-performance mumbo steps coming through. And then as you go into different things, you might look at some songs that play a lot more afro-cuban rhythms and so on. And so then you go down the rabbit hole of learning what is afro-cuban, where does it come from, what is the music, what are the rhythms and so on. And as you get an understanding for that, then that can kind of drive how you dance to the music or like what steps you're doing. So again, that still relates to what steps am I doing though. Yeah. So that's still at a beginner level in my opinion, as to how you're choosing to dance in the steps that you're doing. Yep. So you'd flick in a social dancing context. You'd flick back and forth. You'd hear a different style. Like, is it, do you call it, is it romantic salsa? What's the, what's that kind of salsa romantic? It's also romantic, huh? So you'd tailor your dance style a little bit more, would you kind of say, is it my dance style and that you'd stick with it? I mean, you could dance, you can embody different styles, better or worse, depending on your disposition. Okay. Some people, they can do the long stretching out romantic, sameing salsa and they really enjoy that. Other people just want to get right down to the timbalas that are going crazy and do all the crazy stuff, crazy turn patterns that they know. And you could start to make very loose connection between, okay, if you really like salsa romantic, then you're talking about long, more drawn out lines. So you'd say that person, all right, cool. Well, who are some artists that might embody that style to you more? What are some songs that you like? And if they wanted to really go down the pathway for forming, cool. It might be worthwhile. You'd learn a little bit more about contemporary style because that's going to embody more of the heavier emotions that you're trying to show when you're dancing to that style of song. So, again, that's an extension pretty far from what you've asked, but it's all about the music in relation to what your goal is. Yep. And how would you guys both personally, are you more, is there something that kind of, well, I know you guys dance on too? Is it mumble or is mumble on two different terms or help clear some of the air around what those words mean and what they are? So the short answer is that it's still contentious. Okay. it depends on who you're asking what their opinion is to an extent, right? You can dance onto which is still stepping on the counts one, two, three, five, six, seven. Some people might say that dancing mumbo, you're dancing to more a bit more of a son rhythm. So you're actually stepping on the 8th and instead of the one. So you'd be stepping 8th and two, three, four and six, seven instead of one, two, three, five, six, seven. But to me, that the specific time that you're stepping on doesn't dictate the form that your dance will take. So overall, what supersedes that is what is the feeling of a song that I'm dancing to? Because you can dance on one in such a way that it kind of looks very similar to on two in that you're really ebbing and flowing through the counts in a different way than you would traditionally on one dancing. So that's why the counts are a bit less relevant. In my opinion, it's like, what form do you want your dancing to take? Cool. And some of the other words that come to my mind are, so we've got LA that a lot of people with me and Melbourne would have danced and is LA just in line on one dancing? Is that how you'd kind of? Yeah, stepping forward on one in a linear fashion. Cool. And then I've heard Callie Cuban. So Callie is the really fast and compaded fate. Typically less, less linear that you do still have linear steps. You're doing a lot of fast feet in partner work as well. You'll know when you say it. So I could try and kick a million soccer balls. OK. And how would you say Cuban fits into what that is? It's not directly related. So you wouldn't have Callie Cuban. Oh, yeah, of course. That's not really a thing. So Cuban's dancing in a really circular fashion. OK. Yeah. So you're still dancing on one, but a lot of back breaks and stepping forward, you wouldn't really dance in a linear way. Yeah. Cool. How about-- yeah, I mean, is there any experience with different genres that you kind of related more to? Not particularly. I mean, I feel like I've danced all of those just from going to socials and coming across leads where in my early days, people leading stuff. And I'm like, this guy's not dancing salsa. And then down the track, once you start to learn what those styles are, it's like, oh, I know what you're dancing now. Like, I get it. I know how to follow it. But now I've kind of tried-- I've only really tried on one, on two. Callie, I haven't done much of. I also don't see much of it in the Melbourne scene, but that could just be-- They use the beginning instructor called one call, Lossal Spinisantia, who is an amazing callie dancer. He's moved to Adelaide. So with him, there's only one other-- studio left. But yeah. Yeah, I think for Melbourne in general though, on one and on two is probably the most common for us. So that's typically what you're going to see more of. It doesn't mean it's the right one to focus on because it just comes down to your personal preference. But in Melbourne, that's what you're going to get. If you go somewhere else in Australia, you're going to experience probably a different spread, a different percentage of what people into. And likewise, overseas, it'll be different again. Yeah. I guess in a more general context, the other thing I always, the other thing that where I'm at with my current stages, I'm only dancing salsa and bachata, but you obviously like and you see a lot of other styles. So you see hip hop, you see jazz. What are your kind of thoughts on exploring with other genres and how they can play in? Especially if you say you are, say you do, are you here for the salsa, but you kind of want to explore other aspects? How would you say they're kind of related? I'd say for purely if you want to have fun and you'll have fun doing it, then do it. But if you think that doing a different style will directly improve your salsa, I tend to find it's not the case. Yeah. You don't find skills overlap or well, skills is kind of general word for it, but you don't find there's much to learn from other aspects that carry across. There's always something to learn. So it's not that you won't learn anything. It's just how many things will actually translate across. Okay. And so that's where, you know, to draw a few comparisons, you know, if you're dancing songs, I want to be an amazing artist, I'm a follow, but you know, I've never really done much dancing before. Then doing some form of ballet slash contemporary, that'll teach you a bit about turnout. Yeah. That'll teach you a bit about flexibility and lines. Will it dramatically make you an amazing dance overnight just because you've done, you know, six months of ballet? No. Okay. You'll notice that you'll start to see and understand things a bit better and you'll incorporate that into your dancing. But I believe that the dance style that you do primarily will always be your primary dance style. Yeah. And so therefore, once you've kind of set your feet in the salsa stand, so to speak, a little bit of ballet will help you do things that you see in salsa. What a lot of people don't talk about is that these amazing artists that are in the industry. Yes, they're prompt, they're either heavy salsa dancers have been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years, but they have a very strong background in other areas. And they've actually out, they've trained out the ballet so that they look like a salsa dancer, but they can do the lovely ballet lines. They can do the amazing turnout, the great forms when they're doing lifts and so on. So the pure form of salsa will always be salsa. And ballet might help with things like technique and lines through how you're stepping and so on. Hip hop will definitely help with body control. But there's still salsa applications for that. So there's never a good substitute for just practicing your salsa. You want to do better body movement for your Afro-Cuban? Practice Afro-Cuban. You know, a hip hop class or two won't make you an Afro-Cuban god. The only other thing I'd say is I mean, there is obviously doing hip hop and then going into Cuban, you're not going to suddenly be a Cuban rock star. But there are components, like you said, that can carry over. So I've had some people speak to me with regards to salsa and they just feel like they're upper body or just their body movement overall is very just stiff in the movement. They can't relax it. They can't quite get that body movement flow. And I have given a few people the suggestion that they should consider like body movements, obviously something you need to work on. One way you could work on that is hypothetically take, you know, start doing some reggaeton classes because that is something that involves a lot of body movement and body movement control and just learning to engage that part of your body. And so that's one, like you can tell people and go, fundamentally it's your body movement you need to work on. But for a lot of people that don't know how to work on that, it is easier to then attend a class which will help you achieve that. And it's also a more fun exercise, friendly, you know, social friendly way of doing it. I agree. Like doing a reggaeton class will definitely help you with body movement. But it won't necessarily teach you salsa body movement. Exactly what she said, you know, I'm struggling with body movement. Okay, do a dance style that primarily focuses on that. And then go back and learn your salsa body movement. Yeah. Yeah. Do you find, as two aspects of one exploring this, one is in terms of classes in the way salsa classes are taught in Melbourne, do you find, is there a reason, how would you kind of explain the reason things are lacking in terms of exploring other things you need other than just footwork. So body movement, loosening up, like actually following and actually leading and things like that. How would you kind of say in classes you see those kind of things can't be addressed and why they continue to be unaddressed? I think it's hard because most people come to, especially like Latin dancing, partner dancing classes. They come there because they want to dance with a partner. And so things like focusing on your body movement, it's more of a solo thing to do. It's something you need to work on yourself. And that's kind of where shines comes in. That's something, that's an opportunity for you to work on that. But for the most part, especially for us, I think the culture is more people do social dancing and partner dancing because they want to dance with a partner, not because they want to just be the best social dancer that they can be. So it's kind of hard to put those things in there when the majority of the community's drive to attend a class is dancing with someone else. So it's trying to figure out a way to fit that in in a class without kind of deterring from their main reason for wanting to go. Yeah, I tend to agree with that holistically. I'd say that ultimately though it's because we're still the scene in Australia is still very much like a teenager compared to a bunch of adults. And I mean that in terms of how far along we are in terms of developing the culture of our scene and just the size of the community as well. It's very hard for a dance school to justify focusing on these smaller things when the culture of the scene itself doesn't show a lot of interest for that and that doing so would cause them to lose students. Yeah. So because we don't have the volume to say to mitigate the risk of studios doing that, why should they do that? And so that in turn dictates a long-term culture. So it's been no secret that Melbourne seen, you know, took a very heavy hit over the past couple of years. But even I'd say in, you know, five, six years ago we were in a very, very healthy place. So we were trending in the right direction. But just culturally in Australia, dancing and especially salsa dancing is not a big enough component to give us the volume of people to weather that loss of interest but still try and enact long-term change. Yeah. It's a pretty like realistic and genuine answer to like how things can progress and where the scene can actually grow because I guess you would have seen internationally or wherever you guys travel to see the scenes, salsa scenes or just dance scenes. Literally just Japan. Just Japan. Yeah. And Amy? I've done America. Just LA. I'm very jealous of that just for the record. That's things. What was your experiences of that? How did that go? So in Japan it's really interesting. So it's even small in Australia but the, I guess the interest in dedication is higher. So people that were there to learn, they were there to learn. And also culturally in Japan, like the role of a teacher is perceived differently than that of Australia. It carries a lot more respect. And if you say movie shoulders in this way, everyone's attentive and everyone's doing that and everyone will commit to that. So there's a high level of belief in what a, someone of a teacher position will say. Whereas in Australia it's just a little bit different. It's not that we don't respect teachers, it's just that we learn in a different way as kids. So we perceive teachers in any capacity differently. So there was a really healthy mumbo on through school there and there was some amazing dancers there. But it was just, and it was a huge school. But that's all there was. There was a few other niche little schools here and there. But there's one very big, very advanced school and that was it. So it's interesting. There was a very high retention, very high skill ceiling of that school, which is really promising to see. But overall you'd say that was just one community. There's no greater community than involved a greater number of schools that would really carry that to be a successful scene. So that's why I say it's small than Australia. But I would say in some ways had a bit more advancement to that culture within that sub-community. Yeah. And how was just LA experience, the fancy LA experience? Well mine was a festival and also a couple of socials in LA as well. I think it was just nice to see the difference of size. So in LA, like the festivals, the overall like the social rooms that you had. For each room you had an individual room and they were all huge like among us. They had like two ball rooms opened up as one ginormous massive ball room. And it was just great to see that it's literally full from wall to wall of people in every single room. Whereas for the festivals that I've been in Australia, you still typically will get dedicated rooms for each but it is much smaller in comparison. It also, again, this is drawing on one experience like one festival in America. But the interest between like salsa and bachata was relatively even. But you also had zoog there. Soog was a little bit small scale. Here I think for us bachata is a little bit heavier for Melbourne. So it's just nice to go somewhere where there was a lot of variety when it came to the salsa. Yeah, I can't really comment much on those schools and whatnot. But from the workshop itself, they were all presented very different niche ways of teaching either on one or on two or even the bachata. There was different options there. There were even ones that were specifically for performance tricks and whatnot. Like they had a lot of niche areas. And I think it's just because they have such a high volume of people that even though it's such a small niche little area, they're going to get a decent attendance because there's going to be enough people to warrant to have that class. Yeah, definitely. And I think the ability to call on what we'll talk about earlier, bring internationals and having a wide array of talent show up, also drives people. How should I convince someone who's in regional Melbourne that's done maybe salsa for three or four or five years to warrant traveling in for a Melbourne festival where we don't necessarily have any international artists. Like why is it worth their time to do that? Try to sell that and grow it. Yeah, exactly. So it's all about growing. And I think that comes down back down to our accessibility. So you know, it's we're in a challenging spot. Australia is almost like we need to create the the standard and the industry itself just through sheer will and belief. We can't just like import some talent overseas regularly enough to drive that long term. Yeah, I've met a lot of internal growth and development. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I guess you guys would have a strong teacher experience of this of like trying to inspire because I'm a very direct person in terms of who I connect and inspire with like inspired too. So for me, it's very much like the guys I see either on the dance floor when I go social dancing or the people who will teach me regularly are my direct like greatest inspiration. So how do you think that plays into your role and your importance that plays for you? Like, I mean, it's for me, the bar was raised so high with that experience and I continue to have my eye in other places. So it'd be asking, does anyone locally inspire me to the same extent as people internationally? The answer is not really to be total this. Are you more focused currently on working on yourself to be that inspiration locally? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Because my thought is that if I only just look within the local scene, things will continue to be the way that they have been for a long time. You know, a good friend of mine, Arty, you know, traveled the world and got inspired and he went to Italy and trained with some of the best dancers in the world and you know, really gave them a run for their money. So if I had to point to anyone locally, that was the closest to inspiring me, and it definitely be him. But he's probably the only Australian that I can think of that's been able to do so. Which speaks volumes about the, I guess, the health of us in. Yeah. Yeah. Am I seeing as we've been going for a while, might switch it up because there's one thing that I think I've been receiving questions about. So I'm kind of doing a Q&A, almost built off of the viewers and the listeners. So a couple of things I want to address is like the big things I'm currently working on and the big things a lot of people I know are asking about is how do you go about pondering off? This is a complete switch. I'm sorry. People want to know, how do I get a partner without having to dance? It's very the more. It's, I mean, it's not as easy as it sounds. I mean, it's basically like getting a boyfriend, getting a girlfriend. Like it is finding someone that you are going to spend a decent amount of time with. And so you need to connect, well, I guess, in your communication style and definitely in your goals. I've had like Jason and I obviously dance partners. For me, Jason's my third dance partner that I've had. And I think it kind of depends person to person from my first experience with having a dance partner. I think initially the first reaction is cool. We both really want to learn. We both kind of want to learn these things. So this will work fine. Like we can just partner up. Like there weren't many questions asked. There wasn't heaps of thought specifically into it other than we just want to train. So let's be dance partners. Yeah. So that's like a job interview and more just like that you want to hang out. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing is if you're looking for someone to train with, you actually really need to be very honest with yourself because part of the reason that that partnership didn't work out was that we both were very vague with we want to develop and we want to grow. But we weren't honest with each other on actually what we wanted to work on and what we wanted to develop for ourselves, which worked out to be two very different things because this was at a point when both of us were still very early on in our stages of learning. So we both wanted to develop totally different areas. So again, it's that same thing earlier of where two people kind of going on the same journey, but we were actually branching in different directions and looking for different things. So that's where it's like Jason and I partnering for example. We had conversations before about what it is that we're looking for, what it is we want to achieve, where we want to go, where we want to develop and like what is our focus, which from having conversations we kind of realize that we do share a lot in common and we do share very similar goals with that. We both want to teach, we both want to develop ourselves and we both really have a strong heavy passion for increasing that community in Melbourne and increasing that excitement for Selza in Melbourne. So that's why that partnership has sort of why it made sense and why it happened. It's one of the things important things you'd look for. So what I'm gathering from this, it's more about how you connect in terms of your goals and your inspirations and your training and how you going to structure it. How do you think your different levels of experience and dance skill at the time and ability factor in? Would you recommend people to care much about that? Or especially for beginners, should you look for a beginner? Should you just try and bag someone who's way more like experienced than you? I mean, there's definitely perks to picking someone more experienced because you know, they've your partner will have a lot of knowledge to give and share. But in general, I think the key thing is finding someone that you can connect with well because that's going to be the thing that keeps that relationship working. It's also important to just maintain that communication the entire time. So if hypothetically you partner up with someone and you both share the same goals at the same time, it's great. It works well. If in three, six, 12 months down the track, you kind of a shifting and you want to work on something else or develop something else or you know, you're going from working on just your own dancing to wanting to be a teacher and go in that direction. Like it's important that you communicate that with your partner and you're both honest because that's the thing that can cause a lot of frustration is assumptions because you know, training and just saying you want to train with someone is such a vague thing. There's so many things you can train, so many things you can work on. Like even Jason and I will have disagreements with doing the same thing where we're vague and we're like we're going to go and we're going to train tonight and we rock up to the studio not necessarily with anything planned and then there's been a couple times I've left and I've said, or he's more, encourage me to speak up and I've gone, I was disappointed with that session because I didn't get to do much lady styling and work on that for myself and then he goes, why didn't you say that? And it's like, well, you know, two-shay, why didn't I say that? If I had said that from the beginning of the session, we could have worked on that. So that's where being able to communicate with who you're training with is extremely important. It matters less about their level and more about their ability to be patient with you, your ability to be patient with them and just that openness of, cool, this is what you want to work on, well, this is what I want to work on, let's make sure that we can both help each other with this. And if you can't, like it's, that's totally fine, but that's where you need to be honest to then look at it and go, well, this partnership isn't really benefiting either of us. Like, you know, let's maybe bridge out, look for someone else to add or break up essentially. Yeah, that process. Fun. Yeah. So you've mentioned a lot about the actual contents of the training and how to kind of keep it healthy and keep the communication, the importance of it. If you want to take it a step back, what do you think is that process of getting to that level? Is it, do you just chat to everyone you know about your thoughts and then eventually go, or do you just like look at someone who dances and how do you actually go from that stage off? It's, it's easy to be distracted by the pretty girl on the side of the road. What I'd say, I know that's an interesting analogy, but what I'd say is that if you're walking towards a particular destination, there's a high likelihood that you'll encounter people that are on the same path. So instead of looking for the person that looks like they're the ideal dance partner because I look at how all they spin, they're such a good dancer and so on and again, they look pretty good as well. I'd be looking a lot more about what are my goals and where are my headed and what are my actions that support that? Okay. Because instead of just talking to a random person on the grain, yeah, we're totally going to be superstar dancing. It's like if they if they want that they should be working on their dancing as well Okay, and so should you and if you're both working on your dancing there'll be signs of that Have they entered into any sort of competition? So they're doing a Jack and Jill competition. Yep. For example, they're trying to do one of the performance teams at the schools hosting How often are they going out social dancing? So there's a lot of signs to look for that Elements of what you need to be doing anyway Just I guess fulfill your goal whether that's in an individual capacity or a partner capacity So I would take a lot of those Common things and say well, okay cool. Who do I notice a lot? Who do I see out all the time? Who do I see in that same class from the interstate people come down and teach that workshop? Who's always there? And then try to network on the back of that because the last thing you want is to be convincing someone to be your dance partner You might do a great job of selling the dream of we're gonna be a dance couple everyone's going to know us Like we're gonna do workshops gonna be amazing like we'll change your life will be you know the next I can't think of anyone When it be the next movie stars are the salsa scene. Yeah, right. It's easier to sell that dream But and a lot of people say yes to it But that doesn't mean that their actions gonna back it up It's better to look for those signs and pay attention to what they're actually doing rather than what they're saying and yeah Well, if you want to be a bodybuilder Maybe you should talk to the people that are at the gym instead of the guy that's sinking to three beers talking about how he's gonna go to the gym later Yeah, absolutely that's very painful This has been really insightful holy shit And a very awkward wrap-up man. Yeah, thank you so much for addressing all that kind of stuff It's really crazy call it awkward, man Well, that's what I have to address it because I feel it awkward and it's awkward and I got to make it awkward for everyone else sure I suffer too much of it by myself I just want to send that your way. Appreciate it. Feel like you can handle it a little better than I can Jason So I feel confident sending it your way. Thank you Is there anything to wrap up with you guys wanted to share or send some message about or anything important you guys feel like you missed? At the end of the day, I'd recommend you know in terms of finding a partner on someone Don't be afraid to take a bit of a risk Talk to people put yourself out there And think about all the things that you you should be doing and then try and do that yourself At the end of the day You're gonna be doing this for a long time like if you're already the point where you're considering trying to find a dance partner You will be doing this for a long period of time because it doesn't stop the feeling that you so everyone out there that's thinking Oh my god, this is like so exciting. I love salsa like that feeling. It's not gonna go and go away anytime soon Yeah, so enjoy the journey take it slow stay humble and just try and ask yourself the hard questions If I really do care about this the same way that I feel I do what should I be doing am I practicing at home Am I actually practicing what the teacher said I should be in class or am I just writing that high that I get every time I rock up to glass? Yeah, I think also I Think there is a lot of emphasis put on having a dance partner and like having a dance partner is a good thing I Don't not that I think having a dance partner is a good or a bad thing But I think there is too much emphasis put on it. You don't need a dance partner to be good It's not a sense of approval if you do have a dance partner It's a completely optional thing if it's if training partner work is something you want to do than it it does make sense But it's simple enough to just if you're in classes and you message someone in the class and go Hey, I really want to practice that partner work from last week like there's nothing stopping you from just doing that and catching up with people You don't need an an official regular dance partner that you're committed to like you only need it if it makes sense for you And that's the main thing completely agree in my ten years of dancing I've had maybe three dance partners one I never walked on stage within a partner capacity We simply taught together so we never worked on a routine the other we never worked on a routine as well And we were in the same team together So for me like I would probably even scale that number back down to one Amy's probably been the only person that I've actually selected to say hey I'm actually going to dedicate to Lee train with you specifically and we're going to work on name up to be something Everything else that I've done has been in a team capacity and we're working on myself with people at various stages of my life So if that's anything to go by you definitely don't need a dance partner to try and be more successful And that's not a decision you'd want to rush rush because you're making a commitment to someone and you shouldn't make it lightly 100% make it if it's right for you that's it there's nothing stopping you on you know going to a studio and working in yourself That's what shines before yeah training with benefits instead of friends with benefits There's your old goodnight there is I'll hopefully take that that's amazing thank you so much guys If you want to check you out and see your stuff and where would be the best place to reach out or just see what you've been up to Well, it's funny you should mention that so we both have our own individual accounts Amy's probably the more active one on Instagram her tag is Filmin Amy dot Elizabeth but double a for Amy Yeah, mine's Jason underscore SM H but watch this space They will be a combined Instagram account coming out very shortly because we just simply have way too much content that we're spamming our friends and family with and we want to make it more of a dedicated dance Page as well so stay tuned there'll be something on the lines of Jason a name you Amy and Jason or who knows Salsa's awesome anything else for any teams or any practice groups or any performance stuff you guys want to share as well or adjust your personal Well, well there is a performance team tonight Exactly they didn't have an Instagram. Yeah, um now the other team that we definitely give a shout out to is the Salsa unit Probably one of the more professional teams are a part of me together for a couple of years done some really amazing pieces so check us out Absolutely, I highly recommend them as well like I'm looking at most of the days So thank you so much guys and stay tuned for most upcoming up. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks for having us