Design Reimagined with Corey Damen Jenkins

Welcome to How to Decorate from Baller Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline, I'm on the marketing team, and I'm Taren and I'm a product designer. I'm Liz, I head up the creative team. Where are your hosts? Join the expert team at Baller Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode. We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us at [email protected] Not now on with the show. Welcome back to The How to Decorate Podcast. I'm Caroline, I'm here with Liz. Hi everyone, and we're thrilled to welcome back to the show, Corey Damon Jenkins, Principal and CEO of Corey Damon Jenkins and Associates. He's an 80-100-L decor analyst designer known for his traditional but boldly colorful and patterned room. He's also a masterclass instructor and a published author. Today, we are getting a first look at his upcoming book, His Second Design Reimagined, a fresh and colorful take on timeless rooms, publishing this fall with Rizoli. We're going to be discussing the evolution of his design philosophy, the tools he uses to create layered polished spaces, as well as his new YouTube series, actually named Design Reimagined with Corey Damon Jenkins. So Corey, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I have been looking forward to this chat, and you know, we're such huge fans of all of you and the brand, so I'm looking forward to this discussion. It's going to be fun. Yeah, thanks for having me. The antique dot that stands out from your first book is the 700 and what is it, 79? Yes. Door. So I think we have to start from there, just for any of our listeners who aren't already familiar with your work, you can kind of tell them about that little anecdote from Design Reamex, and then we're going to get into Design Reimag. Well, I would give the experience of the 700 and 79 doors, one star, and do not recommend. It was something I had to do when I launched this firm 15 years ago. I initially got my start interior design back in 1996. I enjoyed my studies of drafting and architecture, and then I made a big pivot into the automotive business world for about 10 years, working as a prototype and direct materials buyer for the big three Ford Jam and Chrysler. So my responsibilities included designing and selecting furniture for the lobbies and for the executive offices, but also office supplies and, you know, the fertilizers used on the lawn, like, you know, signage on the property. Like I did the whole encompassing purchasing agency for the company. So it was somewhat creative, but not nearly as exciting as what I would hope for a design career. But it paid well, and that's very important. I was living in Michigan at the time, and I did that for, like I mentioned, 10 years, and in 2007, when the great recession hit I got laid off. And that was definitely unexpected because I thought I was going to basically continue working there and retire from there. I get my pension as most Michiganders do. Just like the Michigander dream, you work at the big three on the line or at a bank and you get your pension and you retire and you, you know, go off into the sunset, right? Well, my sunset came a little early, and I was retired out against my will, basically, and I found myself at home with some boxes from my office thinking what am I going to do next? So after a couple of false stars, I decided that I needed to create a new beginning for myself, a reimagining, if you will. And get back into my original first love, which was interior design, a job that could not be outsourced to a different country, right? But that was a daunting task because we're at the highly recession at this point is 2008. And people in Michigan are very conservative, very laid back. They don't believe in, you know, showing off their wealth, especially to friends and neighbors who they know are going through a tough time financially with the economic meltdown that we were experiencing. So the idea of launching a design firm at the height of a great recession in Michigan of all places is a tall order. But I was very determined. I had a Honda Accord. And because of what I was planning to do, which was basically installing a grassroots campaign to find my first client, I did not feel comfortable driving my Honda Accord around to find my first client. And I explained to them, "I had a goal. I'm going to knock on 1000 doors in Metro Detroit to find my first design client." And chances are that clients probably going to be an executive or a some way shape of form related to the Big 3. And the Big 3 makes GM Ford and Chrysler. So I cannot drive a foreign vehicle up to their driveway. So I need to, you know, rent from you a Chrysler 300. And I need the same Chrysler 300 each and every time I come to you because I want people to think that it's mine. You know? And so the owner was completely, you know, sympathetic to my plight and he got me a beautiful black and silver Chrysler 300. And it was such a beautiful thing to look at because my Honda Accord was white with orange or crew tumont on it. And I realized I needed to kind of upgrade a little bit to get this first client in the door. So I drove around and I saw beautiful homes being built even during the recession. There was lots of construction going on. If I saw a house being constructed, I would pull up to the driveway, get out with my little satchel. And I had color boards and renderings. And of course brochures and business cards. And I had a very simple spiel. My name is Corey Damon Jenkins. I'm an interior designer. Are you in need of design services today? And if I saw a hotel that needs to be renovated or a restaurant, anything I thought was in bad taste, I pulled up to that location and not on that door. I set a goal for myself for 1000 doors. After about 778 doors in, I started to get a little discouraged. Remember, I had just been laid off during the great recession. And now I've had so many rejections at these doors. So I opened the door and then a door back in my face. I had a couple of people set their dogs out on the property and chased me off. I got a real close and personal with a husky one that had, when I was blue and when I was green, I should never have had that much up close personal information about that dog. Way too close. Way too 4K high definition for my taste. I had some people call me some very unsavory names. I am soliciting business. So I was eligible for that. Then there were the people who invited me in and took me for all of my ideas. Then when I gave them a little agreement, it would ghost me. There was lots of rejection back to back. I got very discouraged. My self-esteem kind of took a downward spiral. So I ran a down my goal from 1000 doors to 800. I said to myself, "I don't get a hit. I door 800. I'll just hang this up. Get a job at Starbucks because at least they have health care insurance policies available." I'll just ride this out into the recession blows over. At the 779th door, this wonderful couple came to the door. I pulled up to the Gata community and I waited for someone to type in their code and the rot iron gates opened and they pulled in. I pulled it after them. I got out, started walking the street and I came to the 779th door, beautiful home in this Gata community and this doctrine is wife answered the door. They had just parted ways with their previous interior designer. They were just lovely. It was a cold, blustery winter day. They offered me coffee and scones, which was a really great sign because no one had ever offered me anything. If I can just say this, when someone offers you something, like hospitable, that's a signal that they're looking at you as a potential partner as a guest and not just the help. You know what I mean? That was a really great first sign. Long story short, because it's a long story, they ended up hiring me to decorate their home. I put my heart and soul into it. We transformed several spaces. I got a professionally photographed, empty my little piggy bank on that because the photographer was very expensive but she was worth it. I put the imagery up on my gody.com website. I had designed it on my own with a friend and a few weeks later, HTTBs, casting executive producers discovered my work online and cast my first television show. It was one of those HTTB designs that are competitions where you go up against other designers and fight to the depth in front of national televised audiences. And I won. That catapulted our brand to international and later, I'm sorry, it catapulted our brand to national and later international acclaim that we are very grateful for today. Well, I love that story not because I know it was obviously a challenging time but because I do feel like it really encapsulates so much about your determination but also your positivity, your rooms are just so exuberant and bold and just so positive but in the, they're so happy. Thank you. And so you know, you obviously retell that story with such a positivity to it even though I'm sure it was a very hard time. One star do not recommend. That is quite the hustle story. That's amazing. Yeah. But I think that also speaks to, I think the way that you approach it. approach your practice now. I feel like there's such generosity in your practice and how you teach and the amount of information that you are giving in your master class and your upcoming YouTube series. I find that very inspiring. - Thank you. You know, I appreciate you saying that. I felt when I launched my firm and got really serious with the business, I encountered some gatekeeping Liz that I felt was very discouraging. A lot of the designers there in Michigan did not want to share information, like who's the best wallpaper installer, who's the best painter. People were so selfish with their resources. And I told myself if I'm ever blessed to climb to the top of the ladder of success, I will not pull it up after myself. I will leave it down and help others climb. So not in a position to kind of give back and to hopefully inspire and encourage others, whether they're creatives in the field or not, just I think we need to kind of move past this whole gatekeeping of sources and information and be more willing to accept the fact that there's enough for everyone. And to just be more generous, you know? It goes a long way. (laughing) - Everyone has their own perspective and everyone's gonna bring their own ideas. So let's build on each other. - Yeah. - It's so easy. Life is so much more simpler when you do it that way. It's so, I enjoy it. We're talking about your book, "Design Remix," where you tell the story of the 779th door, but that was released in 2021. So it's really been four years. And you know, what really was the, what kick started the path to your second book? You know, it's a big undertaking to write a book. So what was it that you felt compelled to say that you wanted to write another book to say it? - Well, we had such a great reception with "Design Remix." And so when the publishers invited me at Resolid to come back and consider a second partnership or a continuation of our partnership with a second book, the idea was what can we do that we hadn't done before? So "Design Remix" was governed more by themes. Each chapter focused on a certain tenet of design and decor or decoration, I should say. So for example, how to select bold colors, you know? The bold standard or how to design eclectically, eclectic exuberance, right? These are the different chapters, how I was focused on different types, single black and white and pattern play and, you know, textures and things of that nature. Design re-imagined, however, is much different in the sense that it's actually governed by ten actual projects. And that form has just different. You're gonna see entire projects from beginning to end, completely fleshed out, kitchens, dining rooms, bathrooms, bedrooms, but all from the same home or the same project. The thing about design remix is that I had several clients' homes feature, but they're split up over the entire book from front to cover because they're being governed by the topic with "Design Remix" and if you wanna find one particular theme or design tenet, it'll be covered in that chapter with that home. And then like design remix, design re-imagined also has takeaways. In the solid, what I did on Masterclass, which was the foundation of design remix. We took that same theme, if you will, and we teach a lot about how to, you know, bring these different principles home in a way that's affordable and relatable at bite size and easier to achieve. It's a bigger book, size-wise. Design remix will stack on top of this one. It has a much bigger trim. It's probably, I think, 30 pages, 40 pages longer than design remix. It's a fancier book. Like, it's a, they gave us a bigger budget with this one, you know. I think that's what happens when your first book does well. And you know, it's heading for, I think, a seventh reprint. They were like, let's really make this book special. So like, for example, the pages are gilded and topper. The edges are gilded and topper. And the hard cases wrapped in this gorgeous peacock feathered linen. Now, no peacocks were injured or were maimed in the making of the book. But it's definitely more textile-friendly textile-driven, more fashion, like more old couture fashion for as far as the design of the book. And I'm looking forward to people seeing that way in rives. Oh, I can't wait to have one in hand. This is so fun. And congratulations on selling rents. That's outrageous. That's a lot for a design book. I'm happy just to get one reprint. So I feel like a recording artist when the sophomore album comes out, please, I'll let this one slide. You know what I'm saying? But we're very excited. And it's only a few dollars more than the first book, even a county for inflation. So again, it really shows the support that we have from the wonderful publishers and editors in Brazil. It's a give us such a big chunky book for only a few dollars more than design remakes. I mean, it's just, we're just so thrilled. Yeah, I loved in the introduction. You talk a lot about flexibility. And you kind of talk about it both in terms of life and the sort of the direction change that your life has taken in the last four years, but also in the context of your client project. So I wonder if you could just talk about why it's so important and design and I guess maybe what you've learned about flexibility in the last couple years. That's such a great question. I've learned that nothing changes in life but change. So if you're not experiencing changes in PIVIS, you're not really living. And so between closing my offices in Michigan, and seeing goodbye to my beautiful home there, I had a home there in office there, and I had so had an apartment in office in New York, but consolidating all of our resources to New York City was a big change, right? And then hiring more staff and expanding our office. I had a good-sized atelier when we got the office space in New York on the penthouse floor. We now doubled our size. We had about 50% of the top floor now and we're still growing. I'm very proud of that, but that comes with responsibility. We have exciting client projects and the thing about being in New York or versus being in Michigan, or is that there's a bit of a wall that I think separates people from reaching out to the Midwest to hire for design. I don't know why, because we have great tastes in style in Michigan as well. Whereas New York, if you're a New York-based designer, people reach out to you and they will bring you all the way up to the Northern, northeastern seaboard all the way down to the South, over to California, to the Midwest. It's just a much more sensibly located place to be for our firm. And our clients love coming to us now and meeting with us in New York City. They'll go and catch a great show, a play, great food. Whereas Michigan, it was always come to us, because for every reason people come to the great lakes. Yeah. So you're saying moving to New York made it to where you had more national projects. Yes, absolutely. That's so funny. I mean, I guess it makes total sense, but also does in some ways seem counterintuitive. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, I think, a logistical decision that I made that was scared to make. Honestly, I was nervous to make the decision. But so far, it has paid off well and we have great clients and just a top-notch team. I mean, I'm very, very grateful. Yeah. Well, you talk in that introduction, you talk about flexibility, and you talk about how important it is when you're tackling a design project. Because, like in life, there's always something that maybe requires to be reimagined. And I wonder if you could kind of share some of the some examples of things that maybe were not in the original plan, which then sort of you had to either solve as a puzzle or bring in, you know, based on circumstances. For like the project. In the design project, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So the one thing I think sets apart this book from Remix is that every project and reimagine our renovations. There's no new construction in this book whatsoever, whereas design remix had a few new construction projects. That's just by pure coincidence. We've done new construction projects. Since 21, we just did not put them in this book, hence the term reimagined. So when you are embarking on a project and it has a historic provenance to it, or it's just an older home that you're renovating, you're going to come across things that are unexpected. It could be a beam in the ceiling that you cannot move, because if you move it, the entire house collapses upon itself, that's a big problem. Or perhaps there's plumbing that is essential and you need to work around that. Who knows what else is laying beneath the floorboards above the ceiling in the walls. So you have to be very flexible and willing to pivot. It's like sailing a ship on the water. You don't sail in a straight line. You're constantly making pivots and turns and hers because the earth is round. As long as you arrive at your final destination, that's what really matters. So you may set out with a color palette or a design plan that's going to be a certain thing, a certain way the client may change their mind. They are 100% entitled to do that, but that could cause for, you know, that could be cause for a pivot. Or you may encounter something structurally that calls for a pivot. So as a designer, you just have to be willing to not take yourself seriously and recognize this as part of the job is to be very flexible and very open to change. Do you think that openness is something like, did you have to learn that or something that you've always had as a designer? a strength in your kind of tool belt. I think I learned that lesson best when I lost my job during the great recession because that was when I personally had to make the biggest pivot or the biggest change. I had a very set goal of what I wanted to do up to that point as far as a career and then life said, "Guess what? We have an update for you." And as you download your life's iPhone and get these new protocols, you're not going to be able to complete the different direction. And so I resisted that for a minute, Caroline. I'm going to be honest. I did resist that inclination that pivot to make a change because I just wanted to set my life in a certain direction. But it all came into fruition in a way that I could never have possibly imagined. So I'm good with the lessons now. I'm not saying I want to continue learning that lesson over and over and over again, but I learned that one. But you put all your chips in on you and that was amazing and that totally paid off. Yeah, definitely. One of the things that I think is so, I think, pivotal, I guess, to use that word again in your work is this combination of traditional and contemporary or your modern. Now your work I would say overall, like from an aerial, it does read more traditional because you have this layering, you have these bold colors, it's sort of a maximalism in there. But then when you really look at the details or so many more sleek shapes, a track arm, a modern dining table or modern dining chairs, chandeliers, that kind of thing. So I found that so interesting because at first glance, it feels like, oh, it's so traditional, but then it really, it's really not in many ways. So I'm curious, you know, kind of how you like, where did that design DNA come from? Is that intentional? Is it just sort of like the way you see rooms? And then maybe we can talk about how to sort of recreate that for our listeners. I think both of my grandmother's and my mother were king decorators. They have beautiful homes and they were fearless, especially my mother. They were very fearless when they came to being okay with incorporating things that they had, things that have been passed down from family, generational wealth, if you will, things that had an nostalgic value and learning how to make it work. If it was a great grandparents credenza that was passed down that maybe stylistically was not what my mother wanted, she would be out there painting that piece and making it fit the vernacular that she wanted for her living room. So I think realizing that there's something that's very beautiful about a sarn and table with a Louis XVI bjr and then having that pair with the Kagan sofa up against a maximalist de Gorde wall covering and then a can't-this-leaf detail and and and and and Egan Dart molding is very traditional and then I don't know, an art deco chandelier. You have all these different styles and I think having representatives of each design style coalescing into one mix or one remix if you will, I think it takes the time stamp off of the room because they all are representatives of, they're all constituencies from different time periods. The sarn and table brings the 1960s vibe into the Kagan sofa, right? The Louis XVI may be a antique, a vintage piece but there's something that's very beautiful and sexy and dynamic about being unapologetically eclectically exuberant and finally enjoying the fact that not everything has to match but everything should flow and we will not be held captive to what my neighbors are doing, what my mom and dad did, what my sister did for her house. I will defeat homogeneity. I will defeat the pressure from, well, I don't know, large catalogs that come unsolicited and are dropped off on your doorstep that are just so gigantic and full of gray and beige and her ears. We will defeat the pressure to do like everyone else and we will go to the flea markets, we will go to the estate sales, we will go to this and that and we will accept the things that have passed down from our families and we will make it all work because life is short and while I'm here, I'm going to live for me authentically because I only have 70, 80, 90 years to do it and I think when people figure that out, they realize there's so much more freedom and joy and living authentically and beautifully with what you have versus trying to impress other people with things you don't really need with money you should not be spending for things you really don't want. And I think we're done here. Bye. No, I really love how you do. You take the time to dig in and layer all of these things that have such different provenance and I think layering is the key word there too because kind of just like having your personality unfold in a room where you get to see like, oh yeah, I like this but I also like that and it just kind of helps the room unfold and you know, the personality of I think the homeowner. Yeah, yes. And it's actually lives a more cost-effective way to do interior design. So many young people that are newly married have access to things that their parents give them and they may feel this pressure to not use them because, well, I don't know, I didn't buy that for myself or my girlfriend her entire house is modern and I want to be, you know, have an interior that's very cohesive like she does. Well, you don't know what her circumstances were but you have this great credenza from your great grandmother that has all these stories that are so authentic and special in a real conversation piece. There's simply nothing to talk about if everything in the room is brand new. If everything in the room is beige, you know, I always say life is too bad. I love to live in a beige box and I love beige. I love to hope. But can we throw in a little emerald green with that, a little chocolate? We can do shades of chocolate and and to hope and brown and tan, plus throwing some white and some gold and a little bit of black, right? Even in neutrality, there is versatility. Yeah. So I think people just have to be more open to being ecotically exuberant and being joyful in the joy of design. Well, plus if you take your, you know, and our mother, grandmother's credenza, that is more dollars that you can put towards something else that you really want and you can get a better quality of that thing. So I'm with you. I never understood that philosophy of like saying no to free things. Yes. I mean, take it and repaint it, change the hardware, you know. It's also environmentally responsible. It's less waste on our planet. So please embrace these beautiful things because they're unique to you and no one else is going to have it, but you and I think that's just a reason to do summer sols and the life that we have right now. You don't have to say yes to like a half broken like he a bookcase, but like a antique that maybe isn't, isn't really your style or something you would have picked out like come on. Yeah. You're just simply doing your part to defeat homogeneity. Yeah. That's okay, but all right, as you said, combining this and that, how do we make sure that this and that can work together? Like what are, okay, you get this credenza from your grandmother. It's not something you want. Maybe you can paint it like how do you, how do you make it work within a hole when on its own? Maybe it's not what you're looking for. So like I taught on my master class, I really believe in creating a mood board or a color board, take a picture of the credenza, for example, print it out and lay it on a table, take pictures or screenshots or prints off images of furniture you're considering from various websites like Ballard or you know, where the case may be and lay it all out, cut it out and lay it out together and see if there's a harmony in those pieces. Franchure and interiors, accessories, lamps, they do speak to each other and it's important that we remember that design is all about the composition of a space. I'm using another analogy here because you know I love to speak in analogies. When a conductor is composing an orchestra, there are various instruments in the box, they are playing. They have a warm-up session and it may sound like utter noise because they're tuning their instruments. But once they have their musical sheets in front of them, they have their notes. It's going to be a harmonious accompaniment of gorgeous music, but you need to conduct to kind of guide them through the process. So if the strings over here are too loud and then it's to be cut for a minute to allow, I don't know, the drums to start playing, he's going to kind of direct that. And the same thing holds true with interior design. Lay out these pieces and see if there's a harmony. And if something that's not feel harmonious is truly a gut reaction, you just know. And it's like I sent on my trailer for Masterclass, you know when it's ugly. So don't keep trying to fit the circle into a square, let it go. And that's the benefit of planning it out with a new board versus. is buying everything and then being stuck with all this stuff, I prefer to plan things out strategically and then edit. And any design plan that is not required and edit, at least one or two rounds of editing, it's not a solid design plan. So it's not done yet. It's not done yet. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What if you, okay, once you've laid it all out, you feel like it works. Am I that like, what about measuring? Because that? That seems to me like a big trick, a trip up. That's the word I'm looking for. For pulling, like sort of, disjointed pieces together because you've got this credenza, like you need to find the right mirror to put over it, but it has to be the right scale. So what if they align, maybe visually on your mood board? How do you know if it's going to like work scale wise? Well, I think that scale is absolutely important because that's what blends itself to a more functional space. There are some general rules that you could consider as principles versus rules. I try to stay away from using rules overall because rules are meant to be broken. So on my upcoming design reimagined series, I talk about space between furniture. When I say as a general rule, consider three feet between pieces of furniture, but you can also get away with two feet or a foot and a half. If the curvature of this Louis XVI hair by time it curves out with the leg, it's only 18 inches from the sofa. And that's enough to put a table there, a little martini table. Go for it. Don't use a three foot rule there because visually you don't need it. I think they should be really used as principles to guide you. And against all about how it feels, it's all about how it looks. There are, I think parameters that should be followed when it comes to being safe in the space. A chandelier should not be hanging six feet over a bathtub. If you stand up and try to turn the light bulb on and zap the night, goodbye. There are some rules there, right? You have to follow. I do think that there's something to be said for having the freedom of letting things kind of play out and seeing what feels right as you navigate through the space. I love the mood board idea because I think you're right. Once you see them next to each other, you start to really sort of zero in on maybe things that are different about the pieces but that work together. For example, a sort of square console table looks so good with a round mirror over the top. And you don't necessarily think about that until you're seeing you've got a credenza. You're seeing the pictures on your surface together and you've got a square when you've got a mirror and you're like, "Oh, just the mirror wouldn't look so much better." You're not going to find that until you're laying it all out on surface, like you said. Absolutely. The furniture will also dictate what needs to come next. If you start with a grounding piece like this surface section I'm sitting on here in my living room, putting a square table here with this L-shaped sectional is not very comfortable to get in here because I may nick my leg on the sharp corners of a table when you're nestling it in with this surface sectional. We have a round sarnin table here. Because of the curvature of the table, there's no chance for me to scrape my leg or to have any sort of tripping hazard because the round circle just geometrically favors the L-shaped intersection of the surface sectional. It's also about living with the space and seeing what feels right in, perhaps doing so in a way that avoids you damaging your legs. I think there's something too planning it out if you can. Use paper, trace paper, sketch things out, sketch a floor plan out. There's even online tools right now that you can use on different websites to plan these spaces out. Yeah, Shamos Plug. We have one. I know. It's called our room planter, but I will say that I learned so much from learning how to draw in scale. It's so easy. I feel like you could teach it to yourself probably in an hour. You get some graph paper. You get a little scale, an architecture scale, and you can get off Amazon. There is so much that revealed itself to me when I just drew it to scale because, like you said, you can tell when it looks bad. Right. You draw it to scale and you're like, "This doesn't work. Period." Got to rethink. Got to be flexible. Got to find something else. Scale is everything. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely how you talk about, and this might be controversial, that the kitchen is not the heart of the home. The living room is. The placement of furniture within a living room is so important. Can you talk a little bit about your ideas about the living room? Yeah. We spend over 1,000 hours a year on average as human beings in our kitchen or the place where we make food. I'm not saying it's not an important part or an important nucleus of a home. Once you have met your goal there as far as making food, you usually leave and go to down some place. The living room is often where people land or the dining room, and that's where you have great conversations, memories are made, arguments are had, discussions about future planning, vacations, watching TV. Again, where all the memories are being crafted is in the living room. So I think that's really an eligible candidate as the heart of the home in my personal professional opinion. I could not agree with you more. I'm a cook who does not want people in the kitchen with me. Go away. Go away. I'm going to start, and then I will join you. Yeah. Shoot. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. But I also love how you talk about the space planning of a living room where I know you're sitting in your own living room, not a sectional, but that's not your first choice. No. It is not. I hate the plain listening sectionals. Yeah, it's diplomatic magic there. It's a little apacadabra for the sake of my relationship. Yeah. Why do you have a sectional? I don't hate them. They have their purpose. They're just not my first go to. By thinking in New York and smaller spaces across the board, they definitely tuck into a corner much better than a sofa or a love seat might do. In Michigan, I was designing these big, big homes and we had these gargantuan sized rooms, so there was just no need to have a lot of sections because we were planning a space to move around. But in New York and other smaller spaces, a sectional has great purpose. This one is made for this corner. I mean, it just tucks in so naturally and it gives you the chance to have other groupings of seating in the room. So I've come around to it. Again, you mentioned earlier about my evolution, can you? Okay. I've evolved. I did, too, accepting sectionals into my daily vernacular for design. You're so right, though. People think that if they have a big room, they just have to fill it with a giant sectional. But sectionals are so specific. They're very rarely going to move. I mean, you did it, but they're very rarely going to move to your next place and work. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's more of the, I think it's more the latter of what you just mentioned. Not just using the sofa sectional as a band-aid to fix a large room. I rather zone the room out into several bite-sized tabloes, if you will, a little vignettes, where a sofa sectional can be one vignette. And then maybe there's another sofa elsewhere in the room with a couple of swivel chairs. They're a partner with it. And maybe a desk. I think a desk in a living room is awesome because some people have ergonomic back issues. And they don't want to sit on a sectional all day and watch TV. They may have to get up and stretch and change the picture of their back. So I think having a nice desk, a desk chair is a nice option for people to have in the family room so that if they're watching a family movie with everyone, they're not missing out. If their physique is not allowing them to sit on a sofa for hours at a time. So I just think versatility is very important. Yeah. Well, speaking of a desk in the living room, I really loved the first chapter of the book. It is this fabulous, what's also the cover? It's this fabulous, a barri-side apartment. And it's also episode one of your YouTube series. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about the project? Why did you open with this project? It was a really fun, joyful, colorful project. And all of my clients are so wonderful. And they all come with such diverse personalities and real views and styles and tastes. And so this one, I usually have to push my clients to be a bit bolder. And this one I did not. I had this sometimes, temper, but we were doing a little bit because she wanted to really embrace maximalism and its fullest degree, which was great. We had so much fun with it. She was making a big life change of her own and moving her two daughters from their previous home to the New York City area. And I have purchased this beautiful apartment overlooking Central Park. The apartment itself was so amazing. was in a historic pre-war building. And the lobby was beautiful and classic, but the apartment itself was horribly renovated in the 80s or maybe it was the 90s, and just devoid of any sort of character of any kind. The only redeeming values were really just the views of the park. So we set about doing a complete transformation of the space and we went all out. She's a very old mature fashion for a lady and she loves the intersection of fashion and design for interiors kind of meat. So you'll see a lot of celebration of texture and color with, you know, gracy wall coverings and beautiful cravit and the sofa fab racing shoemocker mixed in and great rugs and incredible chandeliers from eye holes. Like it's just, it was a very thrilling job to work on because there was no stopping her. She wanted to create a space to send example for her daughters to not settle and to select at all times. And she told me my mandate, she said, "Core your mandate is to make this home a place for little women, for girls." And so you'll see a lot of pink, but also a lot of lavender and a lot of green and peacocks and the whole nine, silk and wooded wall coverings, you name it, we've got it. And I just still feel that it landed the front cover. And I love the YouTube series where you really break down how you think about, you know, building in the butler's pantry in this beautiful, blue and gold tile and how that references into like the hand painting in the Gracie wallpaper and just kind of how you're going about carrying through the design throughout the entire space. - Yeah, yeah, the sofa, I had a great Susani velvet on it and we wanted to give it an anchor, if you will, lives in that space and so the backsplash by Anne Sachs and the butler's pantry was an easy, understated way to give that sofa gravity in the room. And it's also visually beckoning. It makes you want to go up there and make yourself a drink. So there's lots of jewel tones at work in this home. And I was happy about that because historically jewel tones, when you think about Emerald Green, Sapphire Blue, Ruby Red Amethyst, when you look at ancient civilizations, those colors in dyes and garments and infernershains, you know, drape repandals and things of that nature were reserved for the wealthy. The poor cannot afford access to the dyes to make their own clothing and interior colorful. So they were always draping their bodies in their homes in beige and gray and white because that did not require dye. And so therefore it was, you know, quote unquote, affordable for those who rapport. What's interesting is that during the great recession, everyone was painting their homes, beige and gray. And the reason why I think just from studying it and the way how color theory works, when people are about to take flight or they're about to part ways with something or they're anticipating losing something, they go for non-committal colors. So people were painting their homes during the great recession, the housing crisis, if you recall, beige and gray. They figured that that would appeal to everyone. I might not have this house a year from now. I might not be here three months from now. So I'm going to go for the least offensive, least, you know, visually committed color palette that will hopefully appeal to everyone because I don't really have a dog in this fight anymore. So if you look at the way how colors have translate themselves throughout history from those who are poor and ancient civilizations, to even the great recession of 2008, we associate neutral colors with being going with loss, going without, you know, parting ways, not committing, not feeling permanent about the decision that you're making, whereas if you have a home like this client and you fill it with all the joyful colors that you love, you're not concerned about who's gonna buy the house after you. If they buy the house from you, that's their problem to make it their own, but she refused to live in this recession-esque world where I'm gonna just go for the safe neutral colors in case I might sell this home. Who lives life like that? That's not really designed, reimagined. And so that was why we did the home with the jewel tones that you see throughout the property. - Also, don't you need, don't you need like, join happiness and color more when you're, you know, struggling? - Yes, absolutely. It's great for the mood. Okay, that purple dining room. - Yes. - I mean, I'm so glad it was the cover because it is absolutely spectacular, the most gorgeous shade of purple. Talk to us about the sort of genesis of that room. It was a starting point that you know that you wanted a purple, or did the client know she wanted a purple dining room. And this actually was one of the rooms where I was like, that room feels so traditional, just in the color palette, the lack or the gilding, the chandelier, but the chairs are quite modern. Well, not modern, but you know, they're very streamlined. The table even has this like sort of modern floating in base. So that was definitely when we're, I was like, "Huh, it's, you know, re-traditional, but there's lots of modern hills in here." - See, I see this dining room as Josephine Baker as a dining room. (laughing) Like, I love that. - It is amazing. (laughing) - Josephine Baker was a dining room. This would be like-- - This is it. - Yeah, high T at noon, and yeah, you know, this dining room sits between the family room, which is that very exuberant, joyful color bomb. And then the foyer, which is in the front room, which is wrapped in this really incredible silk embroidered wall covering is, lots of greens and blues and peacock level, you know, color palette. So the dining room becomes what I call a palette cleanser. So when you're designing a space, you think about how do these rooms relate to each other? Remember the whole mood board thing? We lay all the mood boards out. The mood board for the front hall, the mood board for the dining room, the mood board for the family room. If you put a Gracie wall covering on all three rooms, and they all are Shin Rosary or, you know, some very, you know, detailed, organic pattern, that I can get overwhelmed. It can become too busy. So the dining room became like the break, the visual, you know, palette cleanser, if you will, between two very powerful rooms. So that's why we went with that soft kind of lavender blacker because we just needed to give eye or break. Initially, I was not gonna do the family room with that Gracie wall covering. I had a different plan and she wanted to go a bit bolder. So I really drove the need for the dining room to be a bit more simple and understated, even though it's also maximalist with that incredible Art Deco Shand earlier, the palmetto piece that took like eight hours to assemble. And as you mentioned, you know, Caroline the bankets and all the other elements that are at work in the room. - To say that it had to be a palette cleanser is fair in comparison to the living room, but on its own, like, God, it's spectacular. I think it was my favorite room in the whole book, just because also that purple is not a color that many people go to. And it's so elegant, so feminine. And it just looks so good with that sort of walnut table, I mean, just everything. So pretty. And, okay, all of a sudden I was flipping back through it and I was like, oh my gosh, she used it to jute rug in here. What an unpredictable choice, but it really is perfect because it kind of brings the whole thing sort of down a little bit, like, you know, down, not in terms of like energy, but like down in terms of its accessibility. Yeah, like it's more casual. - I understand that. - Yeah. - Understated, soft underfoot. And again, not everything has to be at a 10. We can dial it down to a three and it doesn't compromise the overall beauty of the space. So yeah, we try to create rooms that make people jealous. And, you know, and I've had clients that will say to me, I think I'm losing some friends from this house because there's so much fair see of them there. And that is not my problem. I've done my job. We want to create rooms that make people feel a certain way. And when I say jealousy, I mean, from the angle of the envy of living a life well lived. And whatever that might mean for you, as far as the budget, whatever you can achieve, make it custom to you. That diamond was customized for my client, Erica. That's who she is. That might not be who you are. But whatever it is, just do it to the max. Even if it's modern and minimalist, do it to the max as far as finishing it and making it really tailored to your personality. You know what, make your friends and neighbors jealous. They can have it too. Yeah, yeah, hire me. (laughing) Yeah, I think it's just about, I think about how she wanted to make that house a statement, not only for herself, but more importantly for her little girls, to show them what to expect from their men, the future, and how to live their lives elegantly. I think it's great. Can you tell us more about that? Was it a challenge to design a home that you knew young kids were going to be in? Did you, I mean, they're not that young. I saw a picture. They're like middle school in high school. It's not like they're three. Yeah, was that challenging? No, we spent a lot of time with the parents, with their children in the room. And we interviewed the children. We kind of draw them out. And the parents will tell you if the children are rembunctious, if they're very careful. These are young ladies. they have traveled the world, they know multiple languages, they're very gifted, you know, up really mobile young ladies. So, IRA knew that they were gonna be respectful of furniture and fabrics and drapery treatments. They were not gonna come through and trash it. But we have some, you know, projects where the children are the exact opposite. They are gonna live as children, they have dogs and cats, and they're gonna live a certain way. So that's where we start bringing in fabrics that are indoor outdoor rated. They can take a beating, they can take stains. The juke rug and the dining room was not just there for visual, but it's also a bit more forgiving for the wear and tear that a dining room might receive. Scotch guarding furniture, right? These are all things that we take into account. Even smooth lines on furniture itself, like not having sharp edges. These are things that can rip stockings or skin. You know, if you're walking by a sharp edge table, so we think about all of that when we're thinking through the traffic flow of a room to make sure it's really functional for everyday life. Yeah, I have said this before on the podcast, and we'll stick to it. But, you know, outdoor fabrics are great, but there's no better kid proofing than color and pattern. Yes. I mean, far more indestructible than a beige outdoor performance fabric. Yes, just remember color and pattern covers a multitude of styles. Yes. Camouflage. Let's talk about the YouTube series, because the YouTube series that you recently launched on YouTube kind of outlines, well, episode one outlines sort of the beginning of the design process with this same client. Why was the kind of impetus behind the YouTube series? You know, you have a masterclass, sort of, what is it? I guess you would say a course. Of course. What made you want to go and kind of launch it for everybody? And not just masterclass? Well, I think that we are always looking for ways to shake things up at Query Damage Inc. and Associates. We're trying to do things differently. And there's never been a coffee table book that had a streaming series dedicated to the front cover. And conversely, there's never been a streaming series that has been filmed as a complement to a coffee table book. So we're making some history here. And changing the way how I think people look at coffee table books in general, it's like you can watch this series and really get a behind the scenes, you know, look into what made this project possible. It's not HTTV where you're designed the home within one week for, you know, 500 bucks, no shade against HTTV. But I don't believe that they really portray an accurate view of what really happens with the design process. No, this series keeps it real. We're discussing real price points. We don't hide the fact that it took 18 months. The client wanted done in three months. I told her that it's not happening. And thankfully, she had the patience of a saint and the interest to see it through all the way. But it took 18 months of my life, right? It's produced by Goodbye Pictures, which is a multi-emey in Peabody Award Winning Production Crew. They are behind television hits like Project Runway, the Dream Home Makeover with Shay McGee, Million Dollar Decorators. The entire series was filmed in 4K. So it's the first design show of this nature to hit the YouTube platform that is Netflix or Hulu, Disney Plus, level, definition as far as television quality. So it's like watching a movie on the YouTube channel about a design show that keeps it real and authentic. And it's humorous, it's emotional, it's fun, it's educational. It's got a 10-gen reality TV with it. But it keeps it relatable. It's a multi-million dollar home, but I feel that we package it in a way that makes everyone feel that they can achieve it with the tips and tricks of the trade that I share at the end of each episode. That has simply not been done before. And so we're excited for people to kind of come into this world where we're taking these projects and making them feel down to earth. And not, I don't know, just in franchising, or like I said earlier in our conversation, gatekeeping, others from having a world view into what is possible with a decoration and design. It is really such a wonderful complement to the book. And I loved digging into the book and then getting a peek at the first episode of the YouTube series and really dissecting the room in a different way, in a way that was a bit more accessible. And I love that you say that, you know what, this isn't, not everybody has this budget. But there are so many things that you can take away and so much that you're giving to your audience. Yeah, it was fun. I'm so grateful that Erica, my client, was willing to be on the show and be a guest star with us. Not everyone's willing to do that, but she was on board with letting us, you know, bring the cameras into her home. The finale, shows are coming off the elevator and seeing the home fully furnished for the very first time when she had left about four weeks earlier. The house was just being, you know, painted. She hadn't seen a shred of any decor. So we had the cameras rolling. It was an emotional reunion for her to see the home. It's very different than the television shows you see out there. Because I think that the viewers will get a chance to follow the adventure from start to finish and get a real understanding of what price points really are in timelines really are to create a home. And to walk away from it, hopefully, feeling inspired or as I conclude every episode of Design Reimagine, be bold. Whatever it might be, just be bold and have fun with it. Yeah, it was interesting to be able to see, you know, because obviously you're sort of walking us through the design process, but we get to see before pictures, we get to see sort of the room where paint and wallpaper is done. But like the furniture isn't in and then you see the furniture being at. So you kind of get to see the midway, which you don't often get to see that in a design project. I think it was, it's really helpful just to be able to get a, and there's something about video that gives you such a better understanding of the space in a way that like a flat photograph will gorgeous. Just you can't tell the dimensionality as well. Yeah, absolutely. You said that because I think that that is very exciting for the reader. They find out that there's actually a streaming series dedicated to this first chapter. They'll go to the YouTube channel and in the streaming series named Design Reimagine, which is the same title as the book. So they kind of, you know, go hand in hand and they'll get a chance to see for themselves what went into those decisions and then they can use those, those tips and tricks for themselves in their own home with their own budgets. And I love the design democracy of all of it that we're making it in such a way to where people can make these interiors possible, whether it's with a designer like myself or with someone else or on their own, they can achieve some of these tenants with me helping them as a, as a instructor. So I'm looking forward to people, you know, watching it and hopefully feeling inspired. Yeah. Well, you know, we agree because we also feel like people need to customize their space and we really try to make that happen as much as possible. So we're on the same page. I love it. I love it. Well, I did want to talk about, you know, you kind of talk in the book about anchor pieces and we've, you know, talked about anchor pieces a lot on a show. What, one thing that I've sort of been thinking about recently is maybe you find a great fabric, right? And I think maybe this doesn't necessarily apply if your anchor pieces of wall color or I'm sorry, a wallpaper or a rug, but what if you find a great fabric? You know you love it. You want to design your room around it. There's so many ways you could use an anchor fabric. So how do you know what to put it on? Like what's the vehicle for that fabric? Is there ever like, because you could use it anywhere really. Right. Great question. I would say it depends upon what is the scale of the pattern on the anchor fabric. If there is a pattern, for example, what's the price point of the anchor fabric? Because that will determine whether or not you're going to have a holster sofa that may require 18 yards of that fabric or just some accent pillows on the sofa, right? Which may only require, you know, three or four yards of fabric. So that's going to be, I think, a big part of it. But if you really love it and it's truly the most special thing you've ever seen, my recommendation would be to use it in a profound way that makes a big statement. So it could be on the sofa. It could be drapery treatments or window treatments on the windows. It could be an accent chair, right? But I do think it's something that should be showcased in the space that you will appreciate and enjoy every single day that you walk by it. And be okay with splurging on that and really making it the wow factor that deserves to be. Even if that means cutting back on another part of your budget to make other things happen, it's okay to splurge. Think of it like a toy box. A toy box has a lid on it. You put all your big toys in first and then all your smaller toys have a way of kind of trickling down and finding a little looking crannier to nestle into in the lid closes. The toy box is your budget. If you find this really amazing toy that's like the big toy in the box, like this anchor fabric, put that in first and then you'll see how much room you have left in your toy box, you know, air go your budget to put all the other little fabrics and elements in and it always is amazing. It always has a way of of closing. The lid always closes. The prioritized the special thing first. You of course in the in the first episode have this gorgeous, gracey wallpaper that's sort of your your anchor piece and everything sort of flows from there and you know, you're your sort of emerald bank head and the blue sapphire blue sofa and the wallpaper on the ceiling and everything. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On that project, she called me. It was around midnight. We were texting and she was like, I have some concerns. I want this to be even bolder and we were texting back and forth and I was actually at the studio store because you want to call me on the phone and just like hashes out. She says, it's a two lay out. I'm like, was already midnight. You might as well. We have that relationship and so we have already purchased that green silk wall covering for the walls. And then she said, I want to pivot to something a bit bolder for the walls. So we ended up playing the grass cloth on the ceiling and then tying it into the gray sea design. So again, the lid always closes on the toy box. It's just a matter of, you know, homie fees. You can cram in there, but it always it always closes. Yeah. The green grass cloth on the ceiling is absolutely gorgeous. Yeah. It's true. Thank you. It's fun. Also, it's the cost of that's a way to make that work because we can us in the back. That's true. That's true. Yeah. The restocking fees from telling you they will kill you. So I said, yeah, I said, this is not going to bad just so you know, I can't send it back. So it's going on the ceiling, but it worked out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Corey, thank you so much. This was delightful and everyone needs to go look up your YouTube channel and it's designed to reimagine Corey, David Jenkins. Obviously, prior to the book on Amazon, where else can they find and follow you? Instagram @CoryDameAndJankens. Now on TikTok now, after Eric's house went viral. Oh. The TikTokers got a whole lot of it and it started becoming like a viral thing. So I started, I started getting some pressure from my team to join because they did not want someone else to like hijack my username on TikTok. So I'm going to TikTok now. I have not made a single post yet, but that's coming with the Design Reimagined Streaming series. Subscribe on the YouTube channel to get all the new episodes, the new book. And then also, we just announced a new lighting collection with I-Coles. So we're excited about that. That'll be debuting worldwide in January of '26. Okay. Lots of big things in the works. I love to hear it. Thank you. And again, we just love Ballard. We love the accessibility of the site. I love the product. You'll see it throughout Design Reimagined. What you're going to say. I'm my little eagle eye. Yes. It is everywhere in that book. It's everywhere in the front cover and on Design Reimagined the series because the product is beautiful. And it's got a great quality level to it. And it's accessible. And it's so easy to mix it in with all the beautiful things that we do for our clients. So thank you all for being such a consistent and dependable resource for designers. I think that's very important because we don't always get that. We can always depend on Ballard to come through. So. And we're your biggest fan. Have been for many years. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Thanks for having me. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, www.Hotidecorate.com/podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to [email protected] so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time, happy decorating.