DESIGN IN MIND: Gaetano Pesce — Part 2

I am satisfied when there is a certain complexity, not difficulties. That's Gaitano Peshe, and this is Design In Mind, a podcast series from Architecture. Architecture has long been a hub for international designers and brands in America for over three decades. My name is Tarnik Atendian, and Design In Mind candidly explores the lives and work of some of the most inspiring designers and design thinkers from around the world. Again, Gaitano. Complexity is something that you have when you go in front of a subject that is difficult to express. To look for difficult things is not my job. And I like when there is something new complex to express, to clarify, to transmit, to communicate, that makes me happy. Gaitano Peshe is one of the most important designers of the 20th and 21st century. His design is around parallel in exploration of color, material and form. His mind is innovative and iconoclastic, and his work falls into a multitude of categories. Architecture, urban planning, industrial design, furniture design, and art. Stepping into stimulating studio and Broadway in New York, one is struck by the vibrancy of color, the variety of shape, the prototypes that represent a relentless curiosity and bravery. And thought and in process. Gaitano came on the scene early on in his career when the beloved and well-regarded casino saw that there was a great talent at the young Peshe, and gave him the freedom financially and otherwise, to create work that would soon create waves in the furniture and design world. Gaitano has since gone on to be part of countless group shows and solo shows around the globe, collected in the world's best museums, and has been a professor for nearly 30 years. His work is unmistakable because of how truly innovative it is and he, as a person, is such a delight, true to himself, full of life, and eternally curious. We spoke with Gaitano in his studio in New York. This is part two of a two-part interview. Stay tuned. I have only what I need because I consider in my place where I live, I consider the most valuable thing is the space. And so the space is free for me to move around easily. There are not a lot of objects. And always I was living in the contact, in places in contact with the water, visibly. First of all, there is energy from the water coming. Second, the movement, constantly movement, gives you the idea that static is not good. You have to move. And so that helped me a lot. When I wake up in the morning, all my window on east side and the sun comes in when it's the sunny day, the reflection on the water or the river is fantastic. It helped me to give me a very positive mood. And when I work there, because in the morning I work there, that helped me a lot. My studio in San Francisco is on the water, right on the water. And every day the water is different. I love that. Not every day, also every hour is always the movement. The light, sometimes there are creatures that come. The boat, the sounds, it's so inspiring. I hear a very strong sound from police boat. So I look and there is a huge well in front of my window. I heard about that well, unbelievable. It was very nice to see the police boat pushing the well, taking the direction they see. And they did it. You see from the window. And you see where it was quite extraordinary. Surprise. No, surprise is very important. You have a routine and a surprise break the routine and keep your attention to be new again. Which I think is the magic of New York. New York is a little bit lighter. Because we made the interview later, I said, "Oh, well, I could work or I go the Whitney. I'll go the Whitney. And I'll see some work, be inspired, prepare for the interview, come." And on my way to the train, I walked on 28th Street. I was, because I didn't interview this morning. And the block that I was walking on was all these plant stores and flowers. So you could go inside and all of a sudden it smells like California and so fresh. And I said, "This is New York. You don't expect this. You walk, you find something magic." New York is a very important quality. It's a city based on difference. There are a lot of minorities who had the possibility to keep the identity. And the contrast between one identity and another create energy. And this is what I enjoyed in New York, better than other cities. When I talk about Paris, someone different coming living in Paris in a very short time is obliged to change this way to be. In New York, this is not like this. Each person can keep the tradition, the identity. And it's very important. It's a unique city for that reason. So Leo Castelli, when he came across your work, he said he wanted you to work with him, but he said you'd have to do the same thing. The story is this. When I did the show, very important in the moment, the title was Italy, New Domestic Landscape. Castelli came to the opening and he saw my work. And he asked to see me. I went to see Scarlett. And he said, "Where is your place where I can see you?" At that time, he was June, I remember. And I said, "I am going to Venice, where I have a little space where you can see my work." He gave me an appointment like in July, I don't know what day, at 5 o'clock, I said, "I wait for you in a cafe in Piazza Samarco, Samarco Square." And I said, "I am going to Venice, I am going to Venice, I am going to Venice, Samarco Square." And he said, "I would like to tell you what a gallery's work does. The gallery's work makes a person work known. And when he's known, he can sell. But if you tell me that you can keep this as a production every day, for the future, every day, then we can work together. But if you change, I cannot work for you. Because if you change, that means that I have to repeat the work I do about you making you known. And so, me, I said, "Look, I cannot repeat. I cannot keep, I cannot assure you that I am still the same, always the same." And he said, "Okay, I respect your position." But you remained friends. And then he was on a private airplane with you. Yes. When we were going to Richmond, he was always remembering and questioning what you are doing now. Yeah, I'm sure. Because he missed, I mean, it's allowed him to say to himself what could have been, you know? But until today, I understand why he was saying that. Because most of the galleries, they invest time and money to make someone known. And this work, if he's changing all the time, is a problem. Days ago, I was making new jewelry. He was a labor day. I was there making jewelry. So, what happens? I mean, I never liked this question of process. Not then. So, how did it come about? You know, it's interesting to hear these stories because you're walking and you've seen it. see the material. So let's say for jewelry that day, you woke up Labor Day weekend and an idea came to you and you went into the studio and said, "Let me experiment." Yes. The night before I was thinking about making a new kind of bracelet. And so I called a collaborator to see if it was allowed to help me because I need someone when I do manipulation or material. They have a time, I have to do things very fast and I need someone helping me. And that was possible. So I went and I did and it came out something interesting. Did it? Yes. It's exciting. Yes. Excited, yes, because it's exciting in the sense that it's good to see that until today I have new ideas and the result is interesting. Yeah, I mean it's not something you can generate or control. It's something that you guys have to be open to and allow for, I guess. Not only, but me, I want surprises from the material. So I use material that are liquid like our time. And the material, when they liquid and then they become solid but in the between the liquid and the solid, there are other moments. The material does incredible things. That me, I am not able to think and I am observing certain situations that are fantastic. If I impose my will, 100% to the material, I do object that are not so interesting. But allowing the material to be free could be more creative. Yes. It's like, I mean, in a much more simplistic way, it's like watercolors. What a color when you do with the water, I said that there are certain moments that when the water dries, you are certain solution of color that are fantastic. I mean, it's like giving yourself to what the material, it's having a dance with the material in a way. Absolutely. The liquid, look alive, start in something liquid. Yeah, baby. A baby swims in amniotic fluid. And the human being came from water. So in the liquidity, there is a lot to discover, a lot. Can you go now to say Salone? Are there things, do you feel inspired? I don't go. You don't go. Usually. But I didn't expect. The last we did, it was very successful. Do you know what we did? But the last Salone, no. We have a picture of the carpet with the women. So I did the carpet in a gallery, a carpet divide in square of this being. Each square was a portrait of a woman. The day of the opening, the people were invited to buy one portrait for $1,000. The portrait was sold in three hours. And the money went to the organization in Italy who helped women with problems. This is one thing I made. The second thing I made was in front of the number one on the street. When was this? What year was this? Last year. This was, well, did not this year. The second thing was in front of a very important museum, very important museum in Milan. We put a chair out of scale called portrait chair. It was like four meters high, a gigantic chair. And it was also very successful. And then that chair went to Basel and we sold the chair. So I imagine people, someone would enjoy the chair. And also, I mean, what I think is great about that story is that you have a piece at Salone, which is furniture and design. And then that same piece goes to Art Basel, which is one of the biggest art fairs. So really, you're in all those worlds. So you have a gallery, you help me in this kind of thing. They represent me. So it's okay. So since you don't necessarily, I'm just going to say, mix with the proletariat, but I don't mean that. Since you don't necessarily spend time with new designers and seeing what they're doing, if you were to think of what we need now and we're in a very particular time. We need the design. If we talk about design, we need something more human. The production of something they call, how they call the very banal design today, minimal design. And look, if I see what they do, it's not communicative. It's not happy. So design today is a much more complex of what they can make us, or they want us to think. It's not true. Design is a very complex art who can express very complex subject. And for what I know, I don't know until today, nobody is doing that experience. But they will, because that is this story. There are no other ways that design that interesting is a company like Ikea. Ikea, yeah. I don't know them. They ask me to meet me. Maybe the director, maybe they know that they can receive something for what they do. Why do you love women so much? Look, I think the reason I am really convinced that the time of men is over. Not because they are going to disappear, but they need to change. They are against the rigidity, the conservativeism, etc. Also where they are open-minded, I found them very boring, honestly. Most of my friends are female. So starting from that, I discovered, so look, Lula, President of Brazil is a disaster. Abe, President in Japan, was a disaster. In Italy, we had a lot of disaster. Italy is a fantastic country, destroyed by politicians, men. In France, we had a guy who was going with a bike to meet the lover. Now in England, fortunately, they have a woman. Here it's a disaster. I don't know what is going to happen in America, honestly. So also observing that, then I saw the contact with women, is that show me personality, very committed. Men usually don't care. They do their interest and that's it. And so that made me think that the future is feminine. Then I look in the reality and I see women are mistreated with violence against them. They impose certain religion, to cover their body. Instead of to show their body because sometimes it's good for them to show their qualities. Also physical quality. And so all these together said, "Me, I have to, if I can, on my little side, to help a little bit this cause." Just that. I love that. And it's not like you're going to. I mean, I was going to say it's not like you're going to retire because it's not like what. There's no. It's not working, it's creating. Right? Yes. Working for me, when you meet someone, you say, "I always going and the guy, you know, who, difficult, I have to work." For me, that is not possible. For me, work is a pleasure and I like to do it. Also if it's a hot day, going to the workshop and take care of a new ideas, I do it with a pleasure. And work is supposed to be like that for everybody because it's a quality. Work is something that allows us to live, to survive, to make a new experience, to discover, to meet people. So it's a fantastic something that is not on or on the way in the way it's supposed to be. This is what I think about work. And when you think about the thing that you're, when say most proud of, but the part of yourself that you feel is the most valuable, let's say. I am proud of my curiosity and also I am proud to discover myself that I don't think if I am tired. When I have something to do, I do without thinking I am tired or not. Later, I must say my physics creates some questions to me. But until a few months ago, I was never thinking I am tired, I cannot do this, I cannot do that. I tried to investigate in a quality of the human being that is the way you are when you are child. And in that moment, you are a total free individual. Then in time, the education starts to change your way to be. And you abandoned what you was to become the person that is ready to enter in the rules of the society. What I understood with my experience is that the people who do something, usually they are still child. Because they never think this is not possible. For them, everything is possible. And when you think in that way, you do think that nobody else does. That is the way I believe that happened to me in a certain way. Thank you. It was fantastic. That was Guy Tano Pesche, one of the most important designers of the 20th and 21st century. We spoke with them in the studio in New York. This is part two of a two part interview. Design in mind is a podcast series from Architecture, based in San Francisco. Architecture periods the best design from around the world and makes it accessible through its retail spaces, live events in this podcast. Design in mind is Architecture's way of honoring the life and work of some of the best designers today and celebrating the magic and beauty of design and design thinking. And in mind is produced for Architecture by SoundMadePublic. I'm your host, Tani Katanjan. To hear more please visit arcsf.com or go to iTunes and subscribe to Design in mind. Read the show. Tell us what you think. Thanks so much. [Music]